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Frankenstein (2025)
230 Plays3 months ago
It's ALIVE!!! Rick and Trav resurrect their love for gothic horror as they cover Guillermo del Toro's new take on Mary Shelley's Frankenstein. We debate how common confusing Frankenstein for his monster is and come together in our disappointment that we were teased with a variant of the Creature where he has Syphilis that ultimately does not pan out.
(00:00) - Post-Halloween Banter
(05:00) - Horror Movie News
(06:40) - Intro / Where We Saw It
(14:27) - Overall Thoughts / Analysis
(30:28) - Production Notes
(47:47) - Novel vs. Movie
(50:53) - Awards
(01:37:27) - Outro / Coming Soon
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Transcript
Philosophical musings post-creation
00:00:01
Speaker
I must confess,
00:00:04
Speaker
I never considered what would come after creation.
00:00:16
Speaker
we
00:00:34
Speaker
All right, we're back.
Halloween reflections and traditions
00:00:36
Speaker
First episode post our spooky season here. It's now November. um Have a little bit of Halloween hangover. Although actually we're recording this still a few days before Halloween. So I guess I'm just trying to relate to our audience. we're still We're still imbued with spookiness.
00:00:55
Speaker
So hopefully this can translate and help with some hair of the dog and cure your Halloween hangover. while we transmit all of this spookiness from our voice into the airwaves, into your ears.
00:01:10
Speaker
Yeah, I had fun, man, during spooky season. I think one tradition, right? This is our first year doing this, but one that I'm fully on board with and you suggested is next year we cover Halloween 2 as our, know, our, that is our last episode to the capstone to spooky season, so to speak.
00:01:27
Speaker
The year after Halloween 3, Halloween 4, just keep going down the whole franchise. We keep doing the watch alongs. For those of you who actually listen to us during the watch along, I would love for someone to actually comment on this.
00:01:39
Speaker
if you actually watch the movie with our commentary, we can see the listens and there's a good amount of downloads. What I'm worried about More than thought there would be. Exactly. I'm worried people just started listening to the episode, got like a minute in, realized, oh, this is not what I signed up for, and then turned off. So I would love to hear if anyone actually watched Halloween with our commentary.
00:01:59
Speaker
By the way, I just wanted to mention this. you know A non-movie banter, I have one thing to say. have you been to a hot spring?
Hot springs experiences
00:02:08
Speaker
Yeah. Colorado has plenty of hot springs. We're on a fault line, man. Rocky mountains.
00:02:13
Speaker
And I'm assuming you have that same fault line up in Montana. I think I do because before work the other day, me and my friend, Sarah, we went to the Norris hot springs before work. Cause we had a late call time. It was like a one, two PM or sorry, 3 PM call time.
00:02:31
Speaker
And it was so cool. Yeah, it's what it sounds like. It's a hot spring ah and you just get inside and it's naturally hot water. And they there's like, I guess, boards beneath us that the water seeps through that like is from the earth.
00:02:46
Speaker
And they had ciders and beers and food. And I'm going again tomorrow. Yeah, we have ah Glenwood Springs is a really popular one. That's probably the closest one here to Denver. But It's pretty fun time.
00:02:58
Speaker
Um, I guess I'm not as enthusiastic cause it's, that's been as a Colorado native part of my childhood through, you know, 30 plus years of my life. Haven't taken our girls yet though.
00:03:09
Speaker
<unk> We'll have to do that
Children's Halloween costumes
00:03:10
Speaker
eventually. Well, speaking of girls, one, this is now we're getting back into spooky stuff. Can you tell the listeners what did we land on costumes here? Because last time we talked, there was a donkey. We're not sure about the Donkey's still in play. I think I guarantee donkey's a lot. That was for Margo? No, we've ah we've had the same donkey costume for four years. So it's been passed down for all girls. So now Gemma, our youngest.
00:03:33
Speaker
be wearing But there was ah there was a hole in it or something. there is rip it's say It's tail. There's still hole in the back, but we're going to one more October out of it. You've got to play pin the tail on the donkey. Yeah, we we could. We still the tail. We haven't.
00:03:46
Speaker
Lazy parenting, maybe. It's just a testament of how many... So Gemma's donkey. What else? What is what is um up the chain, Margot? Yeah, no consistent theme here because Margot is going to be Elsa, Princess Elsa from Frozen.
00:04:01
Speaker
This is a dress we've had also for years. And so both her and Gemma are just reusing costumes we have readily available. you just can't let She just can't let it go, yeah can she? Wesley um is going to be... Dude, come on. Dude, over my head. Yeah.
00:04:16
Speaker
Come on! Travis, I even smiled like a fucking Jacqueline right there to make sure you received the layup. And you just... Par for the course.
00:04:26
Speaker
Steamrolled right ahead, my comedic genius. Let it go. Let it go. It is a song from Frozen. Thank you. um And then Wesley's obsessed with Moana, but she did not want to be Moana, even though she has a Moana dress.
00:04:42
Speaker
She's going to be Maui, ah the Rocks character. So we got like a kid's, it has like tattoo sleeves on it. It looks like it's, you know skin tone and she's fully tatted up.
00:04:52
Speaker
And then like a long black hair wig. where Where's the line of cultural appropriation here? Yeah, we won't paint our face. Don't worry.
IMAX film returns
00:05:00
Speaker
Okay. All right. I had some quick hits for news real quick. like just Oh, we got a lot, man. You said you didn't think we'd have anything to talk about. And here we are. I know. then then And then I realized that I do.
00:05:13
Speaker
Okay. ah The centers is going back to IMAX and 70 millimeter. So check your local listings, but it's only going to be for a week. So by the time this pod comes out, you'll have, think about three more days to check it out.
00:05:27
Speaker
um If you didn't see centers in theaters, I highly recommend it. It was just fucking awesome. Just a great experience to have with other people. The music sounds awesome.
00:05:39
Speaker
ah Trav, one of our favorite movies is also going back to theaters, and that is The Shining. It's going to be an IMAX for the very first time. um And so the dates for that will be December 12th. Is The Shining a Christmas movie?
00:05:57
Speaker
No. Why would it be a Christmas movie? Well, he he watches the hotel over the holidays. That's Jack Torrance's whole job, and they celebrate Christmas in the film. They have a, when do they celebrate Christmas? At least in the book they do. I might be conflating, but they're clearly there over the holidays.
00:06:15
Speaker
I don't remember a tree or stockings or eggnog. we have We'll have to circle back to this, but. i don't I think, Trav, you're alone on The try Shining is a Christmas movie. It's December release is all I'm saying. You'd fare better with the the the ah the age-old die-hard discussion.
00:06:33
Speaker
But December 12th, 2025, The Shining. First time on IMAX ever. Check your local listings. Okay.
Guillermo del Toro's Frankenstein introduction
00:06:40
Speaker
Well, ah this is the Sunday Scaries. I'm Travis Telerik.
00:06:45
Speaker
I'm Ricky Townsend. Today we are covering our first limited release. We're seeing this probably before a lot of you have in Guillermo del Toro's Frankenstein.
00:06:56
Speaker
um Pretty cool that we got to see it before its Netflix release. It's coming out, I believe, this Friday on Netflix. Will be available to stream and is kind of highlighting this trend of Netflix having some bigger budget, almost award-seeking films it releases near the end of the calendar year.
00:07:19
Speaker
There are a few other big-name films Netflix is releasing here. And dabbling in these limited theatrical releases where instead of going straight to streaming... Well, they have to if they want to be considered for the Oscars. You have have to have... okay so that's why they're saving their best films.
00:07:35
Speaker
Now, I will give them some credit. i You will not hear me defend... I'm not... I'm not a big Netflix defender.
Netflix's Oscar strategy
00:07:42
Speaker
I think that what they're doing to the industry is ultimately going to be ah net negative in terms of quality and a shrunken marketplace. But to give them a little bit of credit, which is rare for me to do, i will say that the the the requirements to be ah considered for the Academy are that you have to have a seven day release in New York,
00:08:04
Speaker
And or L.A. OK, forget if it's and or or it's one of those. So the fact that they at least expanded their limited release to Chicago, Denver, Dallas, you know, um I sure as hell didn't find it here in Bozeman, Montana, but ah they went beyond just the two city um requirement, which allowed more people to see it and some of them in 35 millimeters. So that's that's dope. Yeah.
Mayan Theater experience
00:08:30
Speaker
Yeah, it was cool. It was an experience, definitely. And we could get into it a bit for... There's one theater in the entirety of Denver that is playing this film right now. um So that's our one. Give it a shout out. Yeah, it's the ah Landmark Mayan Theater.
00:08:45
Speaker
It's one of these historic art house theaters, like single screen downtown. It's off Broadway and First, where even if you're not from Denver, you can just tell by the street names, Broadway and First, that like it is in the smack dab of downtown downtown.
00:08:58
Speaker
And it's a fun little art house theater where right now that is all they're showing exclusively. Just like stacking up back to back to back Frankenstein showings. Yes. Single screen.
00:09:08
Speaker
Not that big of a screen. That's maybe my only complaint. yeah You definitely feel all the art and how well done up the theater is. The experience is really cool. But this is not IMAX by any means.
00:09:21
Speaker
And ah any concessions? Yeah. So... not not Not like concessions, like you had to concede or make a sacrifice. So I didn't read this until after I saw the movie, but apparently everyone says it's the best popcorn you can get in Denver for a movie-going experience, and I did not get any. So I regret not purchasing that. To go back to the mind. My go-to recently, just because I feel like I want to... um I want to be a good patron in the movie theater. So I'm always buying something.
00:09:46
Speaker
I never drink soda.
RunPee app discussion
00:09:48
Speaker
We never own any soda in the home, but I will buy their smallest size, just regular Coke to bring it into the theater. Yeah. But yes, at the movie theaters, there's something I think my old movie mentor, John Hersker was the former VP at Paramount.
00:10:02
Speaker
He kind of opened my eyes to a whole nother platform plateau of loving film and how to watch it and how to cherish it and whatever. He always had this tradition of having a Coke and a popcorn.
00:10:13
Speaker
And I took that. And now every time I go, I get a Coke and a popcorn. I sometimes add in Sour Patch. Oh, okay. i'm feeling kind I should have. When we take our girls, we get the popcorn and we'll usually get like candy. They like M&Ms that we'll mix in with the popcorn. Oh, we got to mix it in. um But when it's by myself, i I was not snacking and I regret it. So if I go back there for another film in the future, I will make sure to get their popcorn.
00:10:37
Speaker
Well, drive your experience sound a lot more delightful than mine. Um, well it was, it was fun. it was a lot of people actually, here's, here's the craziest part about the theater. You brought this up recently.
00:10:49
Speaker
Typically for films, I will look up if there's a post credit scene because Marvel has made those so commonplace. There's not one for Frankenstein. So if you're going to see the film, don't worry, you don't have to stick around. You know, run P can do that for you. Okay. I did not know that.
00:11:03
Speaker
Um, No free ads, but Run-P is awesome. typically when a film ends, I get up if there's no post-credits scene and I leave. I know you've brought up on the pod before. You like to stick around, it soak in, watch the credits roll.
00:11:14
Speaker
Well, it's also my people. I'm in the industry. So like I like to- Oh, 100%. So that's why you'll enjoy the story is because when the film ended, there's usually like a title card and you know the first few credits, which it's one credit at a time on the screen. So I think it's Del Toro's name, Oscar Isaac's name.
00:11:30
Speaker
You get a few of these right away. After about 30 seconds, I got up. I was sitting in the back of the theater because I'm on my phone. Typically when I'm watching these horror films come note taking, I don't want to distract others.
00:11:44
Speaker
And so I get up, I notice not a single other person in a fairly filled theater. There was at least 30 plus other people has stood up yet. And so so exiting the theater, I just stood up and kind of stood at the back near the exit doors.
00:11:57
Speaker
And I made it another like two minutes into the credits before the first other person stood up where everyone was just sitting down, kind of taking it all. And that was cool. That makes sense. But that's really cool. That's very rare to see that happen. Yeah. So it was fun. And I'm glad that you that ah the credits kept looking looking cool and and great, Trav, because ah the version of the film I saw did not have credits.
00:12:18
Speaker
I saw that the the movie was directed by one Guillermo del Toro. And that's about it. And then the the version I watched cut off. Let's
Frankenstein film analysis
00:12:27
Speaker
just say that the way I watched this movie was not ideal.
00:12:30
Speaker
Timing of this pod necessitated me to watch it in a way that I don't normally watch it. ah Quality was not at its best. Yeah. I wasn't going to push you to share that, but if you want to volunteer it, go for it. I'm not sharing... Well, I'm sharing this in a very... I'm not... I'm speaking around it. This is how Sean Phenasy does it when he has to do the same thing. Oh, okay. But...
00:12:50
Speaker
Yeah, I'm just saying people can read between the lines. you lady and i say okay I'm I watched this movie in a way that I wouldn't recommend, but sometimes you just got to do it. And we ride on, you know, we keep we put one foot in front of the other.
00:13:03
Speaker
There are some moments, Trav, that I want some ah explanation from you because like it was hard to see what I was watching. I should be able to help, but thanks to this Coke that I've been ordering, I did have to take a brief 30-second pee break, as i do with especially two and a half hour runtime. I knew going in, i did not use RunP. So I had to use my own discretion for a scene where I was like, this seems like not a lot's happening. had to quickly duck out and back in. And I don't feel like I lost any threads. So I don't think there was crazy. watched all of it.
00:13:34
Speaker
Are you anti-run pee? What's going on? Do you have the perfect tool that I introduced I'm afraid I'm spoil the film if I go to run You won't. Why would that happen? Because I'll look up and know when a scene's going happen.
00:13:45
Speaker
Like what could happen in that moment? But it they they specifically are very vague. They're like a character picks up a phone and says, hello. well last saying last experience with this is when we saw The Conjuring and they were so vague that I confused the scene with the wrong scene and then I ended up missing an important part the movie.
00:14:03
Speaker
Well, I think ah reading the the prompts a little more carefully. I'm just saying, if there's multiple scenes in the movie with a taxi cab picking someone up and you just say a taxi cab shows up,
00:14:14
Speaker
you better at least give me like plate numbers or some way where I can tell that's the cab that we're talking about. If that's, you know, if that happens again, Trav, I will, so I will send you a Fandango free ticket to go see a movie wherever you want.
00:14:27
Speaker
Should I talk about the synopsis here? Yeah. for Again, it seems silly with some of these last films like Halloween and now Frankenstein. feel like if you've never heard of Frankenstein, but yeah, read us the plot synopsis.
00:14:38
Speaker
A brilliant but egotistical scientist brings a creature to life in a monstrous experiment that ultimately leads to the undoing of both the creator and his tragic creation.
00:14:49
Speaker
Yeah. And it is a ah good note off the top here that Frankenstein is Victor Frankenstein, the creator and commonly confused with the creature who he creates, which I think is just known in in this film as the creature.
00:15:09
Speaker
The creature is not Frankenstein, although today it is commonplace if you're buying a Frankenstein Halloween costume where you are buying. I really hope the demographic of people listening to this podcast have this, they have this. It took me a while to figure it out. So I think it's so good to get out of the way and and say that. Yes, I think I think when I was a kid, ah so I've just disclaimer here, and this will probably go into my bias for the film.
00:15:35
Speaker
i don't know if i told you this before, Trav, but Frankenstein, the story and the Frankenstein's monster ah were my favorite like aspects of Halloween and horror as a kid. I, I dressed up as the monster.
00:15:49
Speaker
I called it Frank. I was just, yeah, it's a common misconception. I was, Oh, I'm going to, I'm going to be Frankenstein for Halloween. um And I call him Frankie and I draw pictures of him and he was always big green with big forehead and stuff.
00:16:02
Speaker
So I'm coming into this with some real beloved feelings yeah for this. And I love this. I love the book in high school. I've only read it once. Mary Shelley's. Which I'm sure we'll talk about in production notes. But, um you know, it's kind of cool.
00:16:17
Speaker
This is the second straight, you know, fall going into winter where a big name director, at least in horror, is giving us some like gothic re-adaptation. Like last year we got Nosferatu.
00:16:29
Speaker
This year we're getting Frankenstein. so And next year we'll get Werewolf. Oh, okay. Okay. From Eggers. Perfect. Yeah, around Christmas. sure Wasn't Jordan Peele talking about doing Creature from the Black Lagoon for a while? Or is that a...
00:16:42
Speaker
I think Jordan Peele gets lumped into a lot of speculative or projects. He's trying to find the right next one. Cause as we know, he's been missing lately. Yeah. Yes. Um, but anyways, so was cool getting this around the holiday season.
00:16:56
Speaker
Um, I know you're starting to talk about Frankenstein. So without spoiling, um, what, what are your thoughts on the film? Dude, I, I absolutely loved it.
00:17:07
Speaker
uh, ah I think that, um you know, it came it came out of Venice, the Venice Film Festival with some tepid reviews. I'm hit or miss with Del Toro.
00:17:19
Speaker
There's some movies of his that I love. There's others that I just or not for me, as we've talked about before. Shape of Water is not one that I really enjoy. Pan's Labyrinth, which is considered like his crowning achievement in some ways, thought it was just fine.
00:17:33
Speaker
i know there's a bunch of allegories that that reading about afterwards that I have a deeper appreciation for, but it's not a movie that I return to a lot. um do love his nightmare alley.
00:17:43
Speaker
And obviously he's known for Hellboy and Pacific Rim. Anyways, I came into this just kind of like, all right, let's see what he's got. And um absolutely loved it. I mean, it's, it's, it's romantic. It's sweeping in scale. Yeah.
00:17:57
Speaker
um Alexander Desplat is like one of my favorite composers. And I think his score is just very tragic and and emotional. And I like that this movie is it's humorless. And I say that complimentarily. It's not trying to be winking or funny or anything.
00:18:13
Speaker
This is a tragedy. And you know what? Whatever it lacks in in humor, it makes up for argument. rich storytelling. It's got beautiful production design. The performances for the most part are amazing.
00:18:27
Speaker
um I think Jacob Elordi and his turn at the creature he should be nominated. I mean, this was, that was an incredibly transformative performance, both in body language and, um, and tone and just overall presence.
00:18:43
Speaker
Um, we'll get into some of this stuff, but that's, that is my overall thoughts. I really loved it.
Film themes: ambition and isolation
00:18:48
Speaker
It is not perfect. And we can get into some of the things that I think del Toro misses. I think it has a lot to do with his own passion for this story. And I think he trips on that a little bit, um, which I'm,
00:18:58
Speaker
sure we'll get into, but that's my high level trap. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What do you think? i I, what you said that I agree with the most is the production design of this film is gorgeous. Again, it brings, it brings me back to Nosferatu where these directors are, you know, these are big budget films for a reason.
00:19:16
Speaker
They're sparing no expense and going extremely deep and and rich with these sets and the costumes and it's visually just captivating. And so I highly recommend you watch this movie, if nothing less, just just for that.
00:19:30
Speaker
Did you notice that he forces us to see that these are all built sets by having these long like tracking shots with the characters as they walk through all these cavernous like hallways and laboratories and stuff yeah and it's it's incredible so visually it's beautiful i think the movie overall i'm a bit mixed um you know it's not i don't think this spoils but it's not really horror in the sense that we are used to today but maybe more in this traditional gothic sense ah definitely in a classic thing that warland was talking about last week like this is your this is your
00:20:07
Speaker
definitive gothic tale of a monster. That makes sense for Del Toro because he is a director who loves bringing fairy tales to life and loves gothicism. And you see so much of that in the film. So much of it is done very well.
00:20:23
Speaker
But at the same time, his... love for monsters is very reminiscent of just like you said, like the shape of water where hu you're getting into a hard time emotionally connecting as much. And I think the character arcs in this film are, it's a very long movie.
00:20:42
Speaker
And so there's a lot of drawn out character development, especially in the first two acts, but where the characters end up in the third act feels rushed or jumping to a conclusion where it feels like maybe a bit unsatisfying characters that have, you know, uh,
00:20:57
Speaker
a change of heart or make decisions where I'm like, i wasn't quite there with you you You didn't quite sell me on this is you didn't earn it. Exactly. You didn't earn it. And so i struggle with it kind of like how I struggled with the shape of water where I'm failing to connect there. But what you do see through all that is del Toro loves his monster movies and he puts so much love and care into this. The love is it it is palpable. You can just tell this guy.
00:21:24
Speaker
ah loves movies, loves monsters, loves movies in monsters and loves this story. And, um you know, I'm not I'm not the first person to say this. This is a this is a point that has been made several times, but I want to talk about it with you because I think it's worth talking about.
00:21:40
Speaker
um
00:21:43
Speaker
Frankenstein is a is a story that del Toro has told numerous times through his other films. Yeah, I think that's right. A monster is created by a man or or unearthed in some way.
00:21:58
Speaker
And initially, we see this monster as a monster. And then lo and behold, ah he's actually this sympathetic creature. And the man, whether it's the form capitalism or greed or the creator, is shown to be the one who is the monster. right and Which is why it's very vindictive for the people who confuse people.
00:22:20
Speaker
When they say, oh, I thought the monster was Frankenstein in a sense. Yeah, you're right. You're right. you have this but You have this large population of people. You think they're just going to walk in this movie. What? The monster isn't Frankenstein.
00:22:31
Speaker
i I think you are underestimating how many people think Frankenstein is still the monster. i Maybe I do. bringing you down from academia and the film lovers for for really where the majority of the us s population, i believe, thinks Frankenstein is the monster.
00:22:47
Speaker
So I think one of the reasons that we love this movie or or that that I love it and that the parts that you enjoyed are also um its Achilles heel. And what I mean by that is ah Del Toro has told this story already that is hard for him to say anything really new. yeah right He adapted this pretty faithfully. We'll get into some of the the variances between the book and the movie.
00:23:13
Speaker
He does make some some interesting and, I think, beneficial changes the so that he can grapple the things that he's interested with. But um I think the problem here, the one problem that got to me at least, was that because he overplays that sympathy for the monster, we don't get any of the... the ah unjustifiable or I guess morally ambiguous violence that the creature ah carries out in the novel.
00:23:42
Speaker
So in the novel, he is um strangling or murdering people simply to get back at Victor. yeahp He is killing his loved ones because um in some cases it's out of revenge. In other cases it's out of impulse.
00:23:55
Speaker
um Anytime he's attacking somebody in this movie, it is self-defense. Like literally he does not He does not kill one person that that didn't have it coming. And i this is the problem with that, is that it it is easy for us to say, oh, this is a sympathetic creature and I can relate to him because you know life is unfair.
00:24:13
Speaker
a good movie and a good story, it challenges you. Yeah. so then it's like, um you relate to a character who is like, who is killing somebody and it's like, Oh, maybe if i was in that situation, do I see myself doing that? Am I a monster?
00:24:25
Speaker
That's the, it's the too much sympathy for the monster. I think is what makes the story beautiful and we can get why that's beautiful, but it also, it, it hurts the, headier, more meaty philosophical questions that makes Mary Shelley's book a masterpiece. Yeah, I 100% agree with you. He made his characters a little too black and white.
00:24:45
Speaker
and And without that moral ambiguity, it makes it less relatable. And it it made it, you know, there wasn't as much empathy, honestly, there for me, because it seemed unrealistic.
00:24:57
Speaker
I agree. And, and you know, even it's this is the weird part, though, that even though, so unlike the book, and I'm i'm not going to try to step on too many differences, but in you know in the book, we don't get a lot of information on Victor's upbringing.
00:25:09
Speaker
But in in the movie, the Del Toro's film, he makes it very clear that Victor was unwanted as a child. He was beaten as a child by his father, played i wonderfully by Charles Dance. Tyrone Lannister.
00:25:23
Speaker
so good at this. I love when he plays the villain. By the way, not his first time playing the father of Victor Frankenstein. Oh, really? I did not know that. he Yeah, he played Victor Frankenstein's dad in the movie Victor Frankenstein from like 2015, which is kind of funny.
00:25:38
Speaker
Anyways, ah I think that – so to me, it was very it was very clear that del Toro was trying to do this like – cyclical nature of violence like hey because because victor frankenstein was abused by his father and and held up to performance and while he while his father coddles his younger son um there was some maladaptation there there was some uh he developed some traits of his own that he then he then carries out onto the creature the creature is now his unwanted child and so even with that
00:26:11
Speaker
explanation for some of his violence and in some of his ego, it still was way too one note. I don't think Oscar Isaac is a high point of this movie. I don't i don't think it's one of his best performances.
00:26:21
Speaker
I don't think it's all on him. I think his character is written kind of like you said, kind of um black or white. yeah um I think Jacob Elordi, despite him being overladen with sympathy, carries such range between rage and curiosity and stuff that like we can talk. That's a whole other segment that I want to talk about. But Getting back to like some of issues with the movie, yeah, I think that ah there could have been a bit more moral ambiguity here with the story and the characters. Yeah, yeah.
00:26:49
Speaker
Well, since we're pretty much getting into it already, before we talk production notes, you want to have any other comments on themes we're kind of taking from this film? Yeah. I think that the the main themes of the book itself.
00:27:01
Speaker
So you have like the dangers of ambition and pursuit of knowledge. I think the ah book, the movie does really well there, you know, like you see his ambition take over, and you know, you see him not think about the consequences, um, creation responsibility.
00:27:16
Speaker
i think this is where we get tripped up a little bit with like, Hmm. is the you know, because the the book is like, oh, that the monster, is he evil because of nurture or nature? Well, he's just not really evil in the in the movie. So yeah there's not really that question.
00:27:29
Speaker
um And then there's ah isolation, alienation, which I think the movie does stupendously. I mean, we really feel isolated with the creature um that it I don't know if you felt any of these themes as you were watching it, but I was trying to match the themes from the book to the movie and see which ones it kind of hit well.
00:27:48
Speaker
um Any of those resonate with you? Yeah, I i usually am not a philosophical enough thinker to call any of these out outright. That's a bit redundant, but I definitely see those that you're talking about. I mean, it also wrestles with it it does have these religious undertones of a creator's relationship with what he has created, um you know, like in Christianity.
00:28:17
Speaker
our relationship with a God who we believe created us in, in thinking through what is the relationship here? Is there, is, are we a creation out of purely curiosity or someone testing us? Or is there, is there something more? Is there actually a relationship there? And you see that here play out with, you know, a few biblical stories with Victor Frankenstein, creating the creature, the creature reading Adam and Eve and learning about that. And also yearning for his counterpart and saying,
00:28:49
Speaker
you know you have made me not the least you can do is give me companionship or someone like me. And so I i like those. Well, but and on that same note, he also reads Paradise Lost ah by John Milton, like the staple 17th century poem, which, ah you know, takes the Adam and Eve story and dramatizes it and makes Satan a really compelling character and like begs the question of like, why did God allow for evil to be in the world that isn't as much of a choice. And would you make maybe the same decision that we all we all vilify Adam and Eve in some ways for doing what they did. But if you were there and you heard what was at stake, would you do the same thing?
00:29:27
Speaker
And ah I think, at you know, at the expense of subtext, and that's the other thing I think this movie lacked a
Potential Oscar nominations
00:29:34
Speaker
bit. I do think a lot of us hit over the head a bit. um You know, at one point, a character says to to Victor Reckstein,
00:29:41
Speaker
maybe you are the monster. yes And it's like, okay, come on. yes Let's just, we don't need to say that. ah But I do think like unchecked ambition and, you know, the the whole Jurassic park question of like, just because you can, doesn't mean you should.
00:29:55
Speaker
um But also unwanted children, which kind of ties into what you were saying. Like both Victor was unwanted and the creature was unwanted. And what does that do to a person? yeah ah How does that allow, how does that impact them and how they care at their lives? And, know,
00:30:10
Speaker
Again, that cycle of violence. And those are those are the things that made me think about. But I do think it was carried by score, production design performances. And that's enough for me. Like I, I know I've seen a lot of reviews where they're like, oh, this is way too unsubtle. And it's a well made movie. So well crafted, man.
00:30:28
Speaker
It's so well crafted. It's beautiful. Right. Well, let's talk production notes if we're okay moving that along. So again, being a Netflix film, in fact, one of Netflix's banner films for the year.
00:30:41
Speaker
Large budget, $120 million dollars budget. This is part of Del Toro. I think it's a multi-film deal with Netflix. He did Pinocchio recently. He did Pinocchio last year. Yep. And so um this was a giant budget. Now,
00:30:56
Speaker
I can't find too reliable numbers on box office, given the land for limited release. It looks like a few hundred thousand dollars, like $300,000 this past weekend. But again, that's not how this movie is planning to make money. It's not a direct.
00:31:11
Speaker
um profit grab here but it's gonna be more indirect they want subscribers and awards exactly which which uh i don't know if you ever use gold derby trav no to like look up the oscar odds oh okay oh dude you're gonna as a sports betting degenerate as you are you're gonna you're gonna really like gold derby um But ah yeah, it's, is this a good time to say where it's yeah looking like it's going score nominations? It has the seventh best odds to be nominated for best picture. and
00:31:43
Speaker
So are you meaning it's, it's number seven in that list of 10. Like we would get nominated. Correct. um Jacob E. Lordi is the outside man looking in. He's number six for best supporting actor, which I would love to see. I love genre films getting their due um in terms of, you know, above the line awards. So it would be so cool if he was able to get some love. I think he just did.
00:32:08
Speaker
phenomenal he made the movie for me um but yeah he's he's look we got sean penn at one for one battle skellen scars guard for sentimental value two paul mescal for hamnet three adam sandler for j kelly four benito del toro at five jacob alorty um and then the technical awards dude it is or sorry i should say the adapted screenplay um it's also on the outside looking in number six to get into that group of five um But then you start to get into the technical awards, Trav, and it is everywhere. Oh, I'm sure. Fourth bed's odd for best cinematography. First best odds for costume design.
00:32:40
Speaker
First best odds for best makeup hairstyling. First best odds for production design. ah Fourth for best score. And um ah fifth for best visual effects.
00:32:51
Speaker
So it's going to get... I mean, have to imagine that production design, it's already locked. mean, that is like... you talk to anybody that's seen this already is the first thing they say so blocked for getting nominated i i would if you still got wicked for good coming out which i'm sure will give it a run for its money on production design and it's funny you say that trev because that is number two best odds um but you're right it's still early but if i had to bet i would say that is the one that is the one lock if i had to pick a lock production is design um yeah i i completely agree with that and and so um that's why netflix made this film
00:33:29
Speaker
Del Toro, it's worth talking about him. Big name director, right? But he has said for decades, he is on the record saying that this is his passion project. He has yeah always wanted to adapt Frankenstein.
00:33:41
Speaker
There's been repeated attempts at him to do so. So it is very cool that you know he he gets to hit pay dirt now. He's had enough success in his career where this is his passion. Blank check type of film he was able to go go chase. Isn't it kind of cool though? There's no there's no really mean, I'm sure he has pressure on himself, but he's already won best picture, best director.
00:34:01
Speaker
He's done everything a filmmaker. I mean, at least if you're looking at it competitively would want to do how calming for him to finally tackle his his ah lifelong you know passion project and on the back end of his career, yeah you will. And I think it's a real sturdy too man. i mean Do you know I was looking it up and he said he has wanted to do this since he saw Frank Darabont script for Kenneth Branagh's Mary Shelley's Frankenstein film from 1994. My boy. KV's your guy, so I had to bring that up.
00:34:34
Speaker
um Really? So it it it took him seeing that movie to finally decide he wanted to do one? He said that was his biggest inspiration was Darabont's script from that 1994 film.
00:34:45
Speaker
i so Which I still haven't seen KB's movie there. and I haven't either. Yeah. De Niro plays the creature, which I think is interesting. um You talking to me, Victor? and You talking to me? KB, as he likes to do, cast himself as Victor Frankenstein.
00:34:59
Speaker
Well, he's he that's his right. yeah good Speaking about pulling double duty, Del Toro wrote and directed this one, it should be said, for for this adaptation of Frankenstein. um And we brought it up earlier in the episode, again, this is based off Mary Shelley's 1818 novel.
00:35:16
Speaker
te awful um fully titled, right? Frankenstein or the modern Prometheus, which I'm still not entirely sure the definition of Prometheus, but it has something to do with creating life. Prometheus is the character that ah brought fire to the world and then was punished for it by being tied up to something and then a crow like eating its insides or his eyeballs. okay Because the gods punished him for giving um people on earth too much power. yeah
00:35:49
Speaker
I was just going to make a plug for I'm way higher on the film Prometheus by Ridley Scott than most people are. And I love that movie. So whenever I can tie Prometheus to anything, I got to bring it up.
00:36:00
Speaker
he's a he's part of He's a stalwart in Greek mythology. So only other thing notable i saw with production, and maybe this is where we, well, I really do like Lordy's performance, but he was not originally cast to play Frankenstein's monster.
00:36:18
Speaker
It was Andrew Garfield. But because of the recent SAG strike, they had to audible. So what I could find, and this is our Wikipedia research here, but with sources, is del Toro spent like nine months envisioning the look Andrew Garfield would bring to the film.
00:36:38
Speaker
And when it was recast to Lordi, he threw it all away and only had nine weeks to think through, wow conceptualize how Lordi would look. And that's one other just criticism of the film.
00:36:51
Speaker
yeah He doesn't look like an amalgamation of different human body parts. He looks more like a Navi from Avatar or something like that. Or he looks like one of the engineers from Prometheus. Yeah, or like one of the engineers from Prometheus. But that's not his fault. That's not his fault. It goes back your point. He doesn't really even look the monster.
00:37:10
Speaker
I think, again, where this film falls a bit short is we don't see him performing monstrous acts. He doesn't look the monster. He looks like a fairly appealing person with just some scars.
00:37:22
Speaker
i don't i don't and don't I don't totally agree with that. i I thought his costume specifically or the design of Frankenstein was a little just less than. He doesn't look monstrous.
00:37:33
Speaker
And I'm going to say this. Andrew Garfield, five foot ten Jacob Elordi. Garfield's only I've always thought he was tall. He's shorter than me.
00:37:45
Speaker
Shout out to Trav being 5'11". There is no such thing as 5'11", usually, right, though? like you're either I was 6'0". Until i met my wife and got married, and now can honestly tell people I'm five eleven and Right, yeah. well Your secret's out.
00:37:59
Speaker
I think that Jacob Elordi, he uses his height in such a way that he he's almost like and initially when he's like being yeah gaining consciousness into the world, he's almost like doesn't know how to use it.
00:38:13
Speaker
he's hot He's hunched over. And then when he sees the world, he's a bit more upright. But then when the world like fucks him over, he's kind of hunches again, but this way with
Performance praises and character twists
00:38:24
Speaker
more menace. And I just think, man, like...
00:38:26
Speaker
Fuck, I just thought he he used his height and his size. And even though he's not like the thickest dude, I bought it. i just really bought it. um And I I just can't imagine five foot ten Andrew Garfield being as imposing.
00:38:41
Speaker
um He's a great actor. Don't get me wrong. But like with Lordy, you got stature and and you have a great performance. Like I think he this was better for everybody. that that Yeah. I agree on casting choice. I largely agree on performance. I just go back to, again, I'm being redundant, but Frankenstein's monster in this film never really feels like a monster.
00:39:05
Speaker
and And without that switch being flipped, that's where I struggle with it a bit. um yeah all right Other casting performances. So Oscar Isaac, right? That's our headliner. That's our main actor. That is Victor Frankenstein.
00:39:17
Speaker
Um, you know, I, Isaac's one of those who he's like Pedro Pascal. He's like in everything. It feels like these days, but I specifically love him for working with Alex Garland and ex machina and annihilation, both of which I consider under the horror umbrella. And both are some of my favorite films there.
00:39:36
Speaker
And to your point, his performance is probably in those two films. I liked more than this one, but, uh, he's serviceable. He does a good job. I do like his. Disheveled Oscar Isaac is a fun Oscar Isaac to watch.
00:39:50
Speaker
Somehow, Disheveled Oscar Isaac has returned. Yes. And then mia Goth, who I don't personally love T. West, Pearl, I guess, ex-Pearl Maxine trilogy.
00:40:04
Speaker
is it Ty West? You're probably right. I mispronounce all the time. So apologies if I said that wrong. But... Don't love the trilogy, but I've always thought she was a star in those. And again, she she puts out a really great performance in this film. as she just great du she's a bo She's our bona fide screen. Yeah, she is. Our generation's screen. Oh, yes. Because even outside that trilogy, plenty of other horror films she's adding to her repertoire.
00:40:27
Speaker
um What do you think about Christoph Waltz? i didn't even know he was in this film until I saw it today. And so, yeah, same. He so he surprised me. um I think it's fine. I love seeing him. and It didn't blow me away or anything, but it it definitely added color ah to a role that is not in the book. And so I was like, oh, who's this?
00:40:45
Speaker
And what's he doing here? And um I think he he. kurt kurt Kurt Russell, my boss right now. ah One time I told him that um one of the reasons I think his role in this current ah show that we're doing ah is so why he was casted so perfectly is because in this show he plays um a very loving husband. He's ah he's ah he's a good man.
00:41:08
Speaker
And I was like, you know, you're kind of always on the top of those lists of like longest running Hollywood couples because him and Goldie Hawn have been together for Decades and decades and decades. And he smiled and nodded his head. He's like, that's called bringing the right baggage.
00:41:23
Speaker
Like bringing the right baggage to the role. And ah I think Christoph Waltz brings the right baggage here. Yeah. He's, he you know, it even if we don't know. And then in Kurt, we were talking about his personal life. But that can be also roles you play in the past. And I think Christoph Waltz is usually playing somebody smarter than you. He's usually playing somebody with...
00:41:43
Speaker
Yeah, eccentric, a theatrical with a secret, which we'll get into. ah That's going to spoiler alert. There's a Shyamalan twist has to do with the yeah sub walt character. That's what I had as my twist as well.
00:41:55
Speaker
But we'll get into that. once week But I just think that he he brought the right baggage to this role ah in terms of his previous and like, again, nothing groundbreaking, but I was very pleased to see. I know you said there's no humor in this film, but ever since Inglourious Bastards, I can't help but feel like he's been typecast a bit where unintentionally, if he is talking, I am smiling and thinking it's funny. Even when it's supposed to be a serious role, like his role in this film is largely serious. I can't help but enjoy.
00:42:21
Speaker
just have a slight grin whenever he's chatting. chews on his lines. He's he's just chewing his shit. It's great. um Can I mention one that really blew me away? Yes, I think i know who you're go to say. David Bradley brought so much humanity.
00:42:37
Speaker
So, you know, he's known for being the character of Filch in the, in the higher Potter franchise. Not the janitor, but I guess the custodian of Hogwarts, who's always a bit grumpy. Owner of,
00:42:49
Speaker
owner of Mrs. Norris. um He was also ah what's his what's his name in Game of Thrones? Craster, not Craster. Walder Frey, Lord Frey. And he's just despicable as both those characters. He's just not somebody want to be around. He's gross.
00:43:05
Speaker
I I think I was so because he brings a different kind of baggage in terms of like how I see him. I was you know, i see his face and I'm thinking, he's another piece of shit. Crotchety old man. Crotchety. And in some cases, sinister like Walder Frey is very sinister person. Game of Thrones.
00:43:21
Speaker
You know, the the word is overused range. If an actor has range, that means that is a very good thing. They can they can trick you into thinking they're one thing and then another another role. this is where i saw david bradley's range i've just he is he brings um grace and he brings curiosity and connection and warmth and wisdom and it is you know it's a ah very important role in the book the old man that the creature meets and it really becomes his real father to be honest that that is the person who taught him truly how to speak and to connect with the world and shows him literature
00:43:56
Speaker
And I just, it's one of my favorite parts of the movie was, is David Bradley, a blind old man meeting this creature halfway and, and carrying on this beautiful friendship. And I think he makes it, you, you put a random old guy there who doesn't know that right sensibility. This is not work, but I just thought he fucking killed it.
00:44:16
Speaker
Jeffrey Tambor, not, not as convincing. Jeffrey, yeah, Jeffrey Tamport would be a choice. is the first old guy came to mind. Who are you?
00:44:28
Speaker
And why are you in my home? ah just want to know why you're in my home. Ralph Innocent has a cameo in this too, which I Your boy. he's... talking about like Scream Kings like he was in Nosferatu last year his role very short in this film but loves it oh yeah he's good good companion films I I did feel oh yes like these are sibling movies yeah that why that's why i brought it up for roughly this time last year when Nosferatu came out another gothic horror read adaptation that's huge on production design and you see a lot of that with Frankenstein as well
00:45:02
Speaker
Wasn't it funny, Trav, that like Universal has been trying so hard to revive the old Universal monsters of like Frankenstein and Dracula, and they they keep missing on making that like Marvel-ified MCU-verse of like they tried with the mummy in 2017 with Tom Cruise, fucking failed.
00:45:18
Speaker
Then they... you know they They came back with Invisible Man, but that was during but that was during COVID, and then Wolfman recently. But it's like, if you just give a blank check to an established auteur like Robert Eggers or Del Toro, they're probably going to cook up something yeah great.
00:45:36
Speaker
Yeah. And it would cheapen it if they tried do a crossover here. We don't need crossovers. Yeah. I will say, I do want to know what you think of this. and Because if you know you and i I, don't know why recently we've been talking about this, um like best horror sequels of all time, right? yeah And like we love looking those lists and like debating which ones belong there. yeah But one that it will be on every single list, if if you got 20, it's going to be there. And a lot of times it's in the top 10.
00:46:04
Speaker
Bride of Frankenstein, which is the follow-up to James Whale's 1931 Frankenstein. And a lot of people do think it... it enhances and improves the story and adds more depth because there's a love interest.
00:46:16
Speaker
Do you think that they del Toro has left room in his heart and Netflix has room in their budget to maybe using Mia Goth potentially as the bride I know you said it would cheapen it to do crossovers, but could you see a world where they do a sequel to this movie in the same vein that Bride of Frankenstein had that, you know, they're both nominated for Oscars. They're both really held in high regard.
00:46:36
Speaker
What do you think? I don't know. Has Del Toro ever done a sequel? know he's made films that have had sequels made after that. Yes, no. So Blade 2 was a sequel. Oh, he did Blade 2. You're right. And then he did Hellboy 1 and Hellboy 2 Golden Army. Oh, didn't realize he did the second Hellboy.
00:46:51
Speaker
Okay. He did both. So he's not afraid do sequels. So yeah, maybe. um Yeah, his his romanticism around these films could make it if he did it, I'm sure he could do it well.
00:47:04
Speaker
And so maybe little less. I just thought if Bride of Frankenstein didn't exist in the canon of best sequels for horror films, I would not even bring this up. But because that is there, I don't know. Also, you lumped in The Mummy, which is mediocre, don't care for the reboot with Tom Cruise, with The Invisible Man. I just have to stand up for The Invisible Man. No, know it's good. It was a very good film.
00:47:29
Speaker
ah That's why I mentioned during COVID, it just didn't make any money because it couldn't. So their attempts to restart the franchise isn't always their fault, but it just hasn't worked. Got it. So I know the Invisible Man I know is great. All right. Should we go to spoiler territory now as we start our awards?
00:47:47
Speaker
Well, also some production nots this is a good time to do it because I wanted to talk about the differences between the book and the movie. are yeah And these are spoiler. This is going to be spoiler. Spoiler production notes and then we'll get into our awards.
00:47:59
Speaker
um All right. In the book, um Elizabeth is a lifelong friend of Victor who eventually becomes engaged to him. And she dies actually at the hands of the creature.
00:48:09
Speaker
And that is what spurs Victor to then hunt him down. um And he doesn't kill her accidentally. He kills her out of anger and rejection. He also loved her. um And what's weird in this movie is that that's more mutual, which we'll talk about quickly. But like in the book, he kills her out of anger and also to end his own suffering. Like I i fucking love her so much and I can't have her and i don't like Victor. So that was one.
00:48:33
Speaker
um In the book, Elizabeth, as I just said, loves Victor. Their childhood friends become engaged in the movie. She hates him. Like from what becomes somewhat disinterest that evolves into this.
00:48:45
Speaker
Right out to stay. There's like a kind of budding romance that I guess the viewers as well as Victor Frankenstein probably um overestimated as as romance. But to me, a goth, I guess, was never romance.
00:48:59
Speaker
Also, is this a good time to bring up she imprisoned a butterfly, but then she's like, no, no, I'm ah really altruistic. I care about these other poor creatures. Yeah. I was struggling with, i was actually, that's one of my losers is the. but Okay. Yeah. Sure.
00:49:15
Speaker
Stepping on it now. That's right. We'll talk about it. Uh, in the book, the creature frames, Justine, who was Elizabeth's maid for her death and Victor even goes along with it. Uh, and then Justine is executed. And this is an interesting one because that part of the book, Trav is left out of most, I think all filmic adaptations.
00:49:36
Speaker
Cause You want to have some sympathy for this creature, even in other adaptations. I know this one, he's all sympathy, but that just like makes you try just see him in a complete, he's just more strategic. He's like being more conniving versus just angry.
00:49:49
Speaker
i just, I think it's a good call. You know, it's like, how can I frame this woman? yes And it allows us to focus on William Moore too. It's not like muddying the waters there. A lot of similarity. i know we're focusing on differences.
00:50:02
Speaker
Yeah. A lot of similarities actually though, with del Toro's yeah tale oh yeah and the book, I'd say more so than other adaptations. And that also brings up, I don't know if this is in the book itself, but probably one the most common tropes that you don't see in this film is the villagers never amass with their pitchforks and torches. know. I was going to wait for that, dude. And go storm the laboratory to go confront the monster. Give monster. Well, that's where Karloff and James Whale's movie really popularize yeah yeah so i was hoping for a few more pitchforks yeah i kind of wanted that too i was actually waiting for that there was a good opportunity after he takes me off and it just doesn't happen yeah they didn't material it's kind of like our country right now we can't materialize or mobilize as well as we want to against this fascist government it's crazy um all right uh awards time scurometer yep
00:50:58
Speaker
Do want me to lead? You said you were conflicted. I was conflicted. I want you to lead. I'm giving this our my first one out of 10. What? Yeah. I was not.
00:51:09
Speaker
This is a, this is a, again, a horror in the Gothic sense of horror. but by today's standards, like this is a drama. Like this is, this is the classic film where if it gets nominated for best picture, I feel like the snobs at the Academy are going to try to say like, well, this isn't horror. Like this isn't one for the boys. It's not horror. It is like the oldest horror tale of all time.
00:51:33
Speaker
The Travis, that is, that is, that is ah ridiculous take. This is like one of the earliest horror films or
Horror or gothic drama?
00:51:40
Speaker
ideas of all time. It's not scary. um Sure. But and like horror, by any measure,
00:51:47
Speaker
So this is funny. In this case, you are Victor and I'm the creature here because you created in me this idea that it's not just jump out of your seat, but it is... I thought you might say that, yeah. I want to say this.
00:52:00
Speaker
It's more like what's disturbing. and i was very disturbed by the idea like they take the idea of reanimation, like reanimating corpses and like those torsos that are just convulsing and shit. And I was like, oh, this is taboo.
00:52:13
Speaker
This is forbidden. Like this is whatever Innocence character says. I was trying to go with that. You you imbued that in me. And now you're just, you're you're rejecting me.
00:52:24
Speaker
You're rejecting me into the Frozen Tundra. So I brought that up when we watched The Long Walk. And again, to maybe distinguish the two, because that is a point I have put out there, is The Long Walk made me feel which is rare for horror movies and so that dread really grabbed a hold of me and again my criticism with frankenstein is it just it wasn't there so i i totally see what you're saying and if it if it did grip you and you you it was it sold the point it felt more realistic than 100 i get it i just didn't have it for this film right which is why personal preference i think i think i was more disturbed and scared but the idea of like
00:53:05
Speaker
Loneliness, isolation, um being being rejected by your creator. but I've had my own weird relationships with God. and I love my dad, but you know we've had our stuff too.
00:53:17
Speaker
The idea of reanimating corpses and what does that mean for identity and consciousness. I just thought they brought the horrific elements of what happens to this type of attitude. where you?
00:53:29
Speaker
I was at five. Oh man, no, I don't even know uh if since we like have a consensus you would put it scarier than final destination bloodlines oh yeah final stage bloodlines is like birthday party to me that's just like nothing scary about that movie to me that's why i was like one it's just funny it's a comedy you don't get scared walking by mri machines that they might be sent to research mode and just suck you in i get scared for my hospital bill and my fucking lame ass insurance but not the mri itself yeah this is I don't think we're going to agree on this because i think it does to with- biggest disparity to date then on this one.
00:54:03
Speaker
it made me think- ah I mean, I'm i'm happy to- do like a job i have to settle through We're to have to settle for a three, I guess. i i For years, and still can be scared swimming in the water, that there can be sharks there.
00:54:15
Speaker
Jaws did that. That is a lasting effect. You think this film is scarier than Jaws? Have you ever thought maybe that because you have- A warm, filled up home with three daughters and a wife, and you're not alone.
00:54:31
Speaker
But this guy, i wandered the frozen tundra. You know, I'm a nomad. I don't have a family to go home to. So maybe isolation is a bit more of ah of a thing for me.
00:54:42
Speaker
Maybe. So how scary was the movie The Whale with Brendan Fraser? Is that like a six or seven then for you? Are you saying i'm go to be I'm going to like grow up to be an obese, positive gay man? Loneliness is a big part of that film too. so And maybe I'm just scared of, you know, you mentioned that you'd be okay with your body being used for a Steven Spielberg movie it was the right role. That'd be a great honor.
00:55:02
Speaker
What if they reanimated it and now you're kind of Travis, but you're not. Frank and Travis? that he' kind of scared Well, I think they'd only use part of me, right? They don't use the full body, so. which part you know what I'm talking about. Yeah.
00:55:14
Speaker
and I don't know if I bring a lot to bring an average to the table there. If you want my best feature, it's probably my protruding brow. Yeah, it's the got it Your protruding brow. Jesus. Once we get sponsors. More brain in there. You know, it could be a smarter Frankenstein.
00:55:27
Speaker
More real estate. um Okay. throughing bra Highlights. The star you mentioned protruding brow of almost as much as monsters, Inc. um Highlights. OK.
00:55:39
Speaker
ah I thought this movie captured the actual the building of the monster better than any other Frankenstein adaptation i've ever seen. Like you truly see him.
00:55:52
Speaker
ripping apart forms. I like that. Yeah. Pulling back skin. He's telling people what to do. is telling William how to get the shit ready. That whole laboratory sequence is fucking awesome. And it's Frankenstein, right? So we have to call it a laboratory.
00:56:04
Speaker
You can't just call it a laboratory. That's that's way too Americanized. It is laboratory. ah But yes, love that sequence. yeah I feel that. but Well, sometimes I just think like when I think of young Frankenstein and and and James Wales Frankenstein, you kind of see him already in in like the whatever.
00:56:23
Speaker
ah what try He's already on the stretcher, I guess. He's like on the platform, the medical platform, and then they're going to jolt him with electricity. they work their way up to that where they're like, he's he truly made him like he didn't just make him alive. He like constructed him. And I just thought, wow, this adds so much more weight to the idea of creation yeah because he's using his hands and there's blood and it's blood, sweat and tears. And i just how cool was that laboratory? That whole like the power interior up on that like bluff above the water, like gorgeous, gorgeous.
00:56:56
Speaker
Would you rather have that one or Dexter's lab? but That one. That one easily. like it's um It's reminiscent of the feelings I had watching the two towers in Lord of the Rings, where you actually see the towers, where it's just like, this is gigantic. It's... um it Yeah.
00:57:14
Speaker
Just like an overwhelming sense of like how cool is this? All right. What if I said you could have Dexter's Lab, but without DeeDee? Is DeeDee what's getting you going away from Dexter's Lab? I've just never...
00:57:27
Speaker
I do love the show, but I've never thought of his lab as a lab. I'm not even a scientist. So I guess I'm just thinking big real estate, like the real estate value of Frankenstein's castle is ah is a lot more valuable. Well, you mentioned two towers, which makes me think of the twin towers and how steel beams don't melt and all that. How come fire completely obliterated all that stone?
00:57:49
Speaker
I'm stepping in a dull knife here. You can have an explosion that will move stone. ah hundred percent 100%. I mean, there's combusting. It's not just flames licking at the side of the stone. There's some combustion there. Hold that thought, because I have another question about fire later. Okay. My highlight... What your highlight? I really liked the opening for this one on ice. Oh, the sermon? The prologue.
00:58:17
Speaker
um Because I did not know how this tale would be told. And I do like the Canterbury Tales style of... You don't see your main characters from the outset. You see this crew that's stranded on the ice and discovering Victor Frankenstein and shortly thereafter, Frankenstein's monster.
00:58:34
Speaker
The initial confrontation with Frankenstein's monster, which is honestly the most monstrous you see him throughout the film is just right here at the start. And then, you know, them kind of bringing Victor Frankenstein around there. He's healing up and he's like, let me tell you my story.
00:58:49
Speaker
And I really like how we dive into it. Exactly. I love those stories within a story. and In the book, it is ah what we are reading are letters from that captain to his wife being like, dude, I picked up this fucking crazy guy and listen to what he told me.
00:59:03
Speaker
um Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. ah Ben Gardner award. Did you have a jump scare here? I had one. I had none, so show yours. All right, so he is he is trying to figure out... he's He's pissed off because he can't get the electricity to sustain reanimation in his little experiments.
00:59:23
Speaker
And then something makes him think of the symmetry of the body, and he's like touching his back, and he's like, oh, shit, let me try this. and the the hand of this half torso guy like starts to flex and then he just wakes up and I just wasn't expecting that he's like got no jaw and that was kind scary oh yes yeah when he reanimates the like partial corpse early on in the laboratory yep yeah that's good hey yep I agree um what about cantaloupe award watching through the caps in your fingers you have anything like that
00:59:55
Speaker
Yeah, um I it wasn't like a specific. I mean, I guess it's during the building scene, but like there's many times where he's like tearing back flesh off of limbs. Yes.
01:00:07
Speaker
And like messing with muscles and stuff. I'm with you. That was mine. There's a few instances of scalping or peeling back skin. Yes. That are well wellm made where the effects look realistic and hard to watch.
01:00:21
Speaker
um Okay, great. Since we covered those, now we can get to some categories I like and I'll put more on cannon fodder. sort of I want to know what you put. I have a feeling we got the same thing. I don't think so because I'm piggybacking off what you just said. When he attacks the wolves, Frankenstein's monster attacks the wolves that now attacked the blind man, his father figure.
01:00:46
Speaker
Some of the wolves he is killing out of self-defense, but to your point, maybe the most vengeful killing is there's a wolf on his back and he reaches behind him and grabs the back of the wolf's pelt and like reverse scalps him and just pulls all the fur and skin off the head. Now I'm so curious what you, that was my best death. So I'm very curious. but That was your best death.
01:01:07
Speaker
That was my best death. I call it the deep pelting. Yes, the deep pelting. that Yeah. Great kills. I've never seen that in a movie. Neither have I. That was fantastic. So I had best death being just Christoph Waltz falling through the hole in the laboratory because the minute you see that giant hole in the laboratory, the first time you see it, you're like, someone's falling through that hole.
01:01:27
Speaker
Like 100% someone is going to go through that hole. I love what I love about that death, too, is that they make sure this is when I was watching it. I don't know why I'm big on ratings like MPAA, and I didn't know what the rating of this film was going into it. It was when I realized it quickly when when he lifts up Christoph Wall's head and it's like just crushed those brains oozing out. was like, okay, yeah, this is R-rated. We got an R-rated picture on our hands.
01:01:51
Speaker
But I like that it did that because it quelled any any thoughts in my head that like, oh, maybe he's still going to use the brain later. It's like, no, that brain's not being used all. You know my best death, that was for cannon fodder. My cannon fodder was, I guess it's similar to the wolf one, but it's it's when ah the old man is dead from the wolf. Oh, yes. these dudes come in like...
01:02:15
Speaker
You killed the old, you killed him and they they think he killed him and he's got, again, and got to defend himself. But there's one guy that he takes the creative liberty to rip his jaw off.
01:02:29
Speaker
And I just thought that was like, that was cannon fodder to He could have shoved him. could thrown him across the room. He's like, let me just rip off your jaw. And the guy just drops again. didn't know that could actually kill you in the same way that I gouging that movies have taught us that can instantly kill you, but keep your jaw. Cause if you don't, you're dead. Yes. According to that guy. Yeah.
01:02:51
Speaker
I think it'd be hard to survive getting your jaw ripped off. I could imagine, not a doctor, we could not a medical doctor. Now the next the next ah guest in our pod, let's try to make sure it's somebody with other jobs. We could bring on like Vince Rossi. We have a few doctor friends who we could ah bring in for a scary movie. That'd be pretty fun.
01:03:10
Speaker
All right. Well, getting into best twist, which you hinted at, so I think we have the same as Christoph Waltz and his secret that he's been keeping. He is not a benevolent benefactor of Victor Frankenstein, but instead it is because he is dying and seeks immortality, or at least being brought back to life, and he is dying of syphilis, we find ah um ah One Night in Venus for a Lifetime of Mercury.
01:03:41
Speaker
I don't know if syphilis is what was killing him in Murray Shelley's novel. Well, he's not in the novel. That character's not in the novel. Just an interesting choice, which just like you were saying earlier, and this is why I was trying to piggyback on it,
01:03:56
Speaker
I was fascinated for a minute when he begs to be incorporated into Frankenstein because I was like, oh my God, they're going to give Frankenstein like syphilis. Like maybe this is his kryptonite is he can't be killed other than this STD that he now has.
01:04:12
Speaker
It's Frankenstein, but with a twist, he's got an STD. That's my Toro right there. I literally was thinking that where I was like, oh my God, they're going to give Frankenstein syphilis or his monster syphilis.
01:04:23
Speaker
Um, I guess that was, I guess a kind of somewhat funny part of the movie that out of all the things, it's going to be syphilis. I don't know. um Yeah, that was your twist, right?
01:04:36
Speaker
assuming. Yes, yeah. I mean, that's the that it will the... The only other one I had, which I guess I had in the back burner in case you had the same one, was ah that Elizabeth loved the creature in like a romantic way. i I initially thought it was just in a compassionate yeah um and altruistic way, but she clearly in her dying scene like has deeply felt um seemingly romantic feelings for this guy. She had never found anybody that...
01:05:01
Speaker
matched her freak you know that was one of those tough pills for me to swallow where I just didn't really see it so with that reveal I was like okay I guess think when you said that when you're like these characters didn't earn some of these decisions I thought of that part and then I also thought of the quick heel turn that Victor Frankenstein makes at the end where he's so compassionate that was the other one I love you and all this stuff asking for forgiveness like I said where did this come from The movie would need to be another two hours. He was literally, I mean, like even at the time frame him in the movie, like just hours earlier, trying to hunt down his monster and blow him up with dynamite to like, I'm so sorry. I did it all wrong. I know.
01:05:41
Speaker
I mean, look, people have changes of heart, but like, I just think it was a bit sudden and yeah those two decisions were kind of weird. ah Don't go in there. Well, Trav, I remember you, this was your idea. you You brought up the idea of deep cuts. Oh, yes. I nestled it in between Shyamalan and don't go in there. Sorry. That's my attempt to add that to my queue.
01:05:59
Speaker
Yeah, so Deep Cuts is ah just like pop culture references or little like Easter eggs that you might discover in there. Like sometimes there's a poster on the wall. Well, you know, this is a movie ah made in the 19th, early 19th century. And so you're not going to have a lot of posters, but there was a lot of literature mentioned. So um two of the books that that the old man gives to Frank, ah sorry, to the creature to read as he's educating himself or being educated by the old man.
01:06:28
Speaker
um We already mentioned Paradise Lost by John Milton, so we don't have to go into that again.
Literary references in Frankenstein
01:06:33
Speaker
um But the other one was Ozymandias. Yeah. How would you say that? I'm just going you say I don't want to try and stumble over Ozymandias, which was written by burst Percy Bysshe Shelley, oh the husband of Mary Shelley. I did not know that.
01:06:51
Speaker
uh a an artist in his own right this book sorry this sonnet was not mentioned in the novel but i think it's a fun little nod from uh from del toro to just put in there and it's a great it's a great um reference point to have and it it is it's about a man who stumbles upon a broken statue it's been dilapidated and and it's in the desert and then a he realizes that it's him and it's just a commentary on all things fade. You can be as powerful as you want, but like at the end of the day, you're just going to be dust. Like even the Kings of Kings of Kings of Kings, um, will be forgotten at some point and, just be broken statues in the desert.
01:07:32
Speaker
And so, I think that plays into like the God complex and, and Victor Frankenstein's idea of greatness and how of the day, it doesn't really fucking matter. Um, because you're not as great as you think you are.
01:07:44
Speaker
So that's a deep cut for me. Also gives them the Bible as the third book, but I guess that's not as deep right because that's a fairly popular book. ah Yeah, that's a shallow cut, but we can mention it. Genesis. oh genesis Yes, yes.
01:07:56
Speaker
Okay. Well, with that, we can go to Don't Go In There. All right. My don't go in there is it's again, this doesn't just, this is not like actually always going in somewhere. It's just like a decision that puts you in peril or that is kind of dumb in some cases.
01:08:15
Speaker
So if, if, uh, and I'm forgetting to say his name, is it her? Heinrich Heinrich Harlander. So Harlander is staking his entire like,
01:08:30
Speaker
extending his life, like this whole plan of like being the benefactor of Frankenstein is, is, you know, he says it's just to be a benefactor of science. And we clock that as like, okay, I don't think that's the reason we find out the reasons because like you said, he has syphilis.
01:08:46
Speaker
So this is such a big deal to him. Dude is going to wait until the day of surgery to tell him this. Like, oh, by the way, you have everything set up. The monster's already there. And um ah now I'm going to ask you, can you put my brain in there?
01:08:59
Speaker
And Oscar Isaac is like, dude, I'm like running around with these steel, these silver beans and the lightning's ready. Like, plus your brain is infected. Like, why didn't he tell him... Before the syphilis took that much hold and he just don't, instead of saying don't go in there, it's like, don't wait that long, man. Like you should have done this way earlier.
01:09:18
Speaker
That was my don't. like that. Mine was a very literal don't go in there because after the creature crashes, what was supposed to be Elizabeth's wedding to Victor's brother and runs off with Elizabeth, um Victor Frankenstein tracks him down.
01:09:35
Speaker
with no plan after seeing his physical superiority takes it tracks him down to a cave to do i don't know what like verbally it cost him and so hey don't do that yeah i don't know what he was thinking he was going to get out of that situation but he gets thrown around and beat up pretty well in that cave i'm like well he he got thrown around before that yes yeah yeah he got he got to toss like a rag doll in his own house literally learned like no lessons and just goes chasing after him with a gun which he knows will kill him so There's a term I like that my, that Sarah has been teaching me out here, which is he got baby girled.
01:10:08
Speaker
Oh, like if you're baby girl, if you're a baby girl, that means you're submissive and you're not like, oh you're, you're, you're not like, ah I guess ah the, the, more common term in front of bros would be like you're not the alpha like he you got dominated like you're a baby that phrase is a lot different than what i thought you meant because baby girl is somewhat similar to ragdoll so i thought she was using like baby girl as a phrase for like thrown around like a rag doll and i was like oh no it's getting dark you can't say that sterometers going on um okay well we can get to uh oh best line i got a winner here so mine is christoph waltz and probably the only other funny
01:10:47
Speaker
point in the film is they're in the laboratory and Christoph Waltz has seen Victor getting friendly with Elizabeth. So he goes to confront Victor in the bathroom and it's essentially like, hey, let's chat in here real quick and don't mind if I relieve myself, take a quick pee.
01:11:03
Speaker
And as his pee hits the bowl, he just goes, French porcelain chimes to man's stream, which is just very Christoph Waltz. e christof waltz I missed that. Okay. So he baby, he baby girled him by commenting on the strength of a stream against a French. Yeah. It's kind of a flex. Like you need to listen to me. I'm in charge. I'm giving you
Bathroom conversation etiquette
01:11:24
Speaker
all this money. And now you gotta listen to me pee and I'm going to talk about paying the power of this. that I've heard that happens in DC bathrooms a lot, like between politicians, like check out this stream. Do you talk to other men while you're paying?
01:11:36
Speaker
It depends on the man. Okay. I've had a few times where i I had something I felt like I had to say while we were both lined up with the urinals. so um That's your one quote? Mm-hmm. So I'll do my honorable mention first, lead up to my favorite quote.
01:11:50
Speaker
But I just and it's also a a Waltz quote, Christoph Waltz's character. It's when he is pressuring him to be part of this deal. He's trying to say, look, I got all this money, but you got to work with me. And Frankenstein's like, no, I like to work alone. And he's just resisting. And then they they get really close, like things are finally assembling and Victor Frankenstein again box at the idea like he's seen the lab and everything and Christoph Waltz just says don't pretend to be reasonable now that would be such a shame yes and like that I love that line because it's like you know i think we've all been there like you whether it's you and a friend or a co-worker like you have this crazy idea and it's not all reasonable like some of it's irrational like could two guys just make a podcast about horror films and
01:12:41
Speaker
on a weekly basis yeah despite having to balance their normal lives could it happen Don't be reasonable now. yeah That'd be such a shame. And ah just that excitement about like, you know, passion superseding rationality, I should say.
Existential void after achievement
01:12:55
Speaker
I just like that a lot. It's exciting, kind of dangerous.
01:12:58
Speaker
um But my favorite, favorite quote was um after Victor Frankenstein achieves his highest goal of his life, he he reanimated a corpse or ah ah an assembly of corpses to be this creature.
01:13:14
Speaker
And then what? He doesn't know what to do. And how he expresses himself in that uncertainty about what's next, he says, after having reached the edge of the earth, there was no horizon left. And ah he goes on to say, the achievement felt unnatural, void of meaning. But those first two sentences about just there not being horizon left,
01:13:33
Speaker
you You know, you hear athletes talk about that, you know, like they they or are actors or these people who are in the public spotlight who achieve what they've been working on their entire lives. And it's still not enough.
01:13:44
Speaker
It's still they still have to face the man in the mirror, or the woman in the mirror. They still have their problems that are still there. It didn't solve everything. And in his case, it's that. Plus, he just didn't have a follow up plan. yeah And so it was just very.
01:13:57
Speaker
You know, ah as you know, like the end of the spotlight was a documentary that I ah made a couple of years ago. And like that was my life's achievement to me. Like I told a story I really wanted to tell about a community I really care about.
01:14:11
Speaker
And i I did feel afterwards like, OK, where's the horizon? Yeah. Like, what do I do now? What now? and The answer was make a podcast. yeah so So I found the horizon, but I just, i it was relatable. It was haunting. i just like it. matt Good reminder why you should set unrealistic goals for yourself. to Then you won't You won't have that problem. You won't hit them. yeah You won't have to find the that the horizon's gone. You can just ah forever guess what that would have been like.
01:14:38
Speaker
um I like it. So I see you're not going with when the creature tells Frankenstein at the very end of the movie, you are the monster, which was like... No, it's not. The creature didn't say it. it's i think it's Mia Goth's character. No, the creature says it directly too.
01:14:52
Speaker
I think she insinuates... happens but twice? Yes, at the very end of the movie. The creature, when the when Victor Frankenstein is dying in the ship, The creature calls him out. Yes.
Critique on film's subtext
01:15:03
Speaker
Heavy handed.
01:15:04
Speaker
ah one My favorite working critic, and his name is Adam Naiman. Oh, yeah. And he's a. Oh, yeah. You know, a contributor to the ringer. Yep. Yeah. ah His nor I read his long form um reviews of every movie I can get. I just I love he's just he he thinks very independently.
01:15:25
Speaker
Frankenstein, he did his own review that was nestled into like a whole review of TIFF, but his one-line stupid, silly review on Letterboxd is, I know writers who use subtext, and they're all cowards.
01:15:38
Speaker
I think the lack of subtext in this movie didn't sit well with Mr. Naaman. I liked it more than him for other reasons, but I don't blame him. yeah um All right, Dole Knives.
01:15:50
Speaker
If I was so hellbent on killing myself... And I'm not saying I am. This is not a cry for help. I'm okay right now. I'm okay. But if I was this seemingly and you know impervious to destruction and whatnot, even if a stick of dynamite is not doing it, there's still another step I would take. And that is like hire some people to literally...
01:16:13
Speaker
sever you into like ah hundred different pieces. Oh, you're talking about what was the journalist's name? Khashoggi in Saudi Arabia? What's this? and don't know what that What? The journalist that the royal prince had cut into pieces and then taken out of his palace in a body bag?
01:16:30
Speaker
no but For someone who claims to be um with current events, man, you are missing one of the biggest news stories out of Saudi Arabia from like six years I'm pretty focused on domestic affairs if you can't tell, Travis. I'm a little focused on what's what's happening on our shores.
01:16:45
Speaker
Wait, is this his recent thing that's just happened? I mean, six years ago. I think it was just pre-pandemic. ah Well, I'll to look into it. You should look it up. It's why some people still have an issue with Saudi Arabia to say, hey, they ain't all good. Well, let's just say that it cut Saudi Arabia would be pretty good for the creature if he's trying to kill himself because go there and say, do that to me. Because what...
01:17:09
Speaker
Then if it's like all his little parts like creep back, like then it's like, okay, i this is not going to work. But, you know, if if he's, if if flames don't do it like they do in most adaptations, if he does not burn, because turning yourself into ash, that's one way you're not coming back.
01:17:27
Speaker
But chopping yourself up, I just don't see what's going to happen. Are the little pieces going to crawl back together? Chop it up, puree it in a blender, and then light it on fire. And then drop, scatter the ashes like across all corners of the earth.
01:17:41
Speaker
Yeah, there's probably some better ways to do it. I like the old knives when we go back and forth, so how about you doing that? Early on in the film, at the very beginning actually in the prologue, this ship is stranded on ice and they're using a full crew of 50 men to try to move it, to break it free so that they can, at that point, continue on their trek.
Plot inconsistencies critique
01:18:03
Speaker
and they cannot break this ice up. It is that thick. But then, you know, minutes later when Frankenstein's monster shows up, the captain remembers he has this blunderbuss, which he knows immediately he could shoot through and break up the ice. And then he breaks up the ice, he's like, man, if you could have done that for the get-go. Sorry, Frankenstein's monster.
01:18:24
Speaker
um But if he could have done that, he could have freed the ship. And I have two dull knives on the same furniture ice gridlock. Because again, Frankenstein's monster, famous for um reanimation.
01:18:39
Speaker
And also I would attribute a bit of superhuman strength because all these... larger than normal body parts were used to build a strong monster but at the very end of the film like what the creature can just single-handedly move the boat off the ice where like 50 plus men well he did he didn't use two pickaxes cannot do it yeah i think you used to i think they made him a little too super strong in that last instance Maybe it's that maternal strength that they talk about that women sometimes. envisioned like his baby under the boat. Underneath the VW bug.
01:19:13
Speaker
Yeah. You imagine Mia Goff over there. Yeah. The ice breakup. It just seemed like maybe it wasn't as strong as they initially led us on to believe and there were some easier ways to break it up.
01:19:24
Speaker
I mean, Trav, you know my problems with ICE and these are your problems with ICE. yes. You just described your problems ICE. I can't believe all
Frankenstein's creature anatomy debate
01:19:32
Speaker
your political commentary and you don't know who Jamal Khashoggi is. Like, I hate to say it, but you are literally the caricature of a political liberal who doesn't really follow what's going on in the world. I don't. I just go for the click rate stuff. Okay.
01:19:47
Speaker
All right. Now, this is more of a question than a dull knife, but i I don't have nowhere else to ask this question. did Did you think he found, when he was constructing the creature, do you think he found a penis that was anatomically like proportional to an eight-foot creature?
01:20:07
Speaker
Or do you think he just, like, I've read studies that say height does not have any bearing on penis size, but we all know aesthetically it does. Do we know for a fact he affixed genitalia? Because we were going to bring this up earlier, and I paused you. Affixed genitalia. And this was going to be a loser for me, but...
01:20:24
Speaker
This was a great opportunity to show some hanging dong. And instead, there's like a little cloth. there's a like a little We got Ken doll. Yeah, there's a little bit of a modesty, I guess, from Victor, where he's like, oh, no, well, we will cover him up there where I don't know for sure he even affixed anything there.
01:20:40
Speaker
I think del Toro, you know, I don't know the production cycle with this, but after seeing 28 days later or 20 years later, he should have been like, oh, we're doing this now. yeah the Zombie dicks. This is the zombie. This is like the the preeminent zombie.
01:20:54
Speaker
And he should have been like, hey, how big was 28 years later a guy? Okay. Nine, 10. I'm making Frankenstein 12. well and We're going to one up this because it's fucking Frankenstein. I agree. Missed opportunity.
01:21:05
Speaker
Uh, but I, still want to do the thought exercise. Travis, do you think if he did do that, how long do you think it took him to find the right penis when he's going through all that, all those corpses days?
01:21:16
Speaker
How long do you spend? Did he spend on it? I well, he was working with larger bodies to begin with because there's some larger you know arms and legs and Frankenstein's monster. What he looks like he's like almost seven feet tall, right? So like, I'm assuming from those same bodies, if he's okay, using multiple parts from the same guy, has something there.
01:21:37
Speaker
This is where we bought up the science though, Travis, this is where we bought up science. Unless you can show me a study that says otherwise. Apparently, penis size has no bearing or height has no bearing on penis size. That cannot be correct.
01:21:51
Speaker
Let's. All right. like Am I going to do this on my work computer? That cannot be correct. Penis size. You're saying a dwarf. Someone who has dwarfism. Hold on That is a completely different category. That's that's size. that's what are you What are you talking about here?
01:22:07
Speaker
I'd like to take out other medical conditions and just focus. So not dwarf, but a five foot male. You think it's just roll the dice whether he has a bigger schlong than Shaquille O'Neal. what I've heard.
01:22:18
Speaker
Research indicates a weak positive correlation between height and penis size. Suggesting that Tolerman... may have slightly larger penises, but this relationship is not strong or consistent. For instance, a study involving 3,300 men indicated that taller individuals tended to have larger penises, both flaccid and erect states.
01:22:36
Speaker
But another, with over 25,000 men, suggested that men over 6 feet tall, not 5 foot 11, Travis, were more likely to have larger penises compared to shorter men. You're with us, dude! just You're in the sub-6 11.
01:22:49
Speaker
Well, being part of the smaller party, it sounds like I i will acknowledge that. Yeah, I think there's truth to ah even if it's weak, there's some correlation between a stature and how well endowed you are.
01:23:03
Speaker
So thanks for doing this. Thanks for doing this. I don't know if that's a self study or what. Yeah, I think you had the parts on hand to answer right. But it does lead my other dual knife. Why did he have to use different, so many different parts from different bodies?
01:23:20
Speaker
Like, couldn't he just reanimated like a single corpse, right? I mean, this is a Mary Shelley question, is it not? Yeah, like, like there were some perfectly fine, like fully intact corpses. You see him going to like the gallows earlier in the movie where like, I think this guy would have been fine. Like maybe his neck's broken. Or like, and why did it have to be so many different parts? well yeah maybe maybe I could see it being like two. Yes.
01:23:43
Speaker
Like, oh, I need this leg and the rest of the guy. Like, literally, you see the scene of him, like, cutting off a guy's leg from, like, the knee down. Like, what's wrong with the rest of the body? so man I've never
Misunderstood creature theme
01:23:53
Speaker
thought about that. Yeah, I don't know. I guess to reanimate, you you need a lot of different...
01:23:58
Speaker
But why? You do, but why? I don't know. I don't know. life I've always wondered about Frankenstein. Mary Shelley, we're coming after you. All right, I have two left. ah but One is, so we're in the creature's tale at this point.
01:24:12
Speaker
The creature after the cave situation, Trav, he leaves him only to hunt him again. Why why do that? You had to go get supplies. He's like, you're my bitch. He's like, you're my bitch now.
01:24:25
Speaker
And then he leaves, but then Victor chases after him. And then there's like this weird role reversal of the hunted being the, the hunter. I don't understand either of their mental games there of like, I'm going to get you and I'm not. yeah And then I run away. And then also, I think they really gloss over the fact that what they were in Edinburgh in England,
01:24:45
Speaker
where that hunt started. And the next thing you know, they're up in like the Arctic circle right next to the North pole where it's like, what is going on with this chase? Like he's on a fricking dog sled, Victor Frankenstein chasing him down. JJ Abrams started, know, right in the treasure, treasure tons or whatever. Yeah.
01:25:02
Speaker
I will say just a quick aside, beautiful shot of him, the silhouette against the sunset or whatever, like the pink sky. Oh, at the very end of the film, the last shot. Yeah. My last dull knife is that, okay, huge explosion.
01:25:15
Speaker
And as I mentioned before, even a lot of stone seemed charred away. the laboratory. laboratory My dull knife is not that stone could burn. I could i can imagine that fell off the cliff, whatever. But so we're just, we're to really assume that everything is exploded and on fire, but like all these important papers were just intact. Paper would probably be the first to go. That's a great point.
01:25:36
Speaker
He's like, aha, I know everything now because these papers were here. Yes, very convenient. um Yeah. So that was another dull knife of mine. um Winners losers?
01:25:48
Speaker
Yep. right, one winner that already mentioned, but I say this is a huge win for the people who confuse Frankenstein and Frankenstein's monster. Oh my God, you're still on this. This is your platform?
01:26:00
Speaker
Yeah, really Frankenstein is the monster. I didn't even bring up... okay right So this is a winner for who? The the the idiots who still in 2025? It's a majority of the US population. I guarantee you, if you say Frankenstein, they think green guy with the- who are you Who are you talking to? Because only horror freaks listen to this pod, i would imagine.
01:26:19
Speaker
And if you're a horror freak, you probably know. Unless you are, you are you speaking to the Joe Plumbers of the world? We're getting some better outreach here where I think there's some- How do you know? This going to be- Please, if you did not recognize this until you saw this film or listen to this pod, drop a comment.
01:26:33
Speaker
There's no way. i will I will Venmo you $25. twenty five dollars Please, someone for the sake of $25, I will split that $25 with you if you just make up the comment and post it. Okay, that's bullshit. That's insane. You cannot do that. You're fucking with... Just send me your Venmo. Wow.
01:26:49
Speaker
That's our first giveaway is half of a $25 bet between you and me. yeahp Yeah, if you if you were somebody who actually thought Frankenstein's monster was called Frankenstein, please show your idiocy. It's not idiocy. It's commonplace. Well, you incentivize them with money, and I'm going to de-incentivize them with shame. All right, what winner do have? That's your winner.
01:27:10
Speaker
Winner for me, flashcards. Yeah? Why was there anything on the back or I guess that was his point where he would just say a word and see if she can instantly remember that word a second. We already had so many dull knives. I'm not even asking that question.
01:27:25
Speaker
All I know that homeboy was behind the planks, you know, interstellar style watching this happen. And he uses flashcards that the old man is teaching to his granddaughter to basically get up to like first grade reading level.
Educational resources in Frankenstein
01:27:42
Speaker
And I just want to say as somebody who used flashcards many times in school to ah learn film terms, then also to learn like drinks i had to make when I was a bartender.
01:27:54
Speaker
Flashcards, man. ah Really good stuff. And I ah ah just want to give a shout out to flashcards because they can help learn it. Winner, ah drinking mercury to cure an ailment that has kind of gone out of vogue. So good to see that. Good shout out.
01:28:09
Speaker
i ah I feel like I bungled the the quote earlier that he says. Do you remember how he says it? Yeah. About mercury and Venus? I think you're right. Like one night with Venus for a lifetime with mercury. Yeah.
01:28:21
Speaker
Yeah. So good. um For sake of brevity, I am going to skip my other winner because it's not as good. My only other winner is there's a lot of milk drinking in this film and milk references. I don't know if you saw that, but it must have been Victor Frankenstein's drink of choice because multiple times in the film, you see him drinking milk, ordering milk at the very end when he's getting his supplies to hunt down the monster.
01:28:46
Speaker
He's talking that guy. He's like, going to need some condensed milk. What if it's so that was <unk>s nice three instances of milk here? Shot in the dark. Because I didn't notice that, but now that you say that, I'm trying to think, why would he do that?
01:28:58
Speaker
Maybe Del Toro is saying something about this carnal desire that men have to birth children. And in this case, Victor wanted... Listen, here I am trying to make sense of your milk allegories. appreciate it.
01:29:13
Speaker
I just assume that either Del Toro or Oscar Isaac really likes milk and they're like, hey, it's part of this. i need milk on set all the time. Milk typically means something maternal or life-giving or or nurturing. Like you don't put milk in a movie for any reason, usually.
01:29:28
Speaker
All right. First loser, wolves. These guys get fucking rocked all over the place. just – they're already – Maybe they were going to stink back then. Now they're not. There's like too many wolves. We reintroduced them all over the place. But dude, wolves are not doing, they're not having a good time.
01:29:43
Speaker
ah They don't get many licks in um and they just get their asses kicked. so Can I piggyback off that one? At a loser, David Bradley's blind man character.
01:29:54
Speaker
Because what the fuck? He's blind and his entire family leaves him for winter? Just saying like, no, we're going to head out. You just chill here at the house. and No, that's not what happened. they had ah They had an argument about it.
01:30:05
Speaker
He was like, they wanted him to go with him. He's like, I've done this for 70 years and we'll it again. And they're like, ah okay, grandpa. Okay, okay. su but They did try. still they did When you're elderly, grandpa You know, like Hurricane Katrina is coming. You got to tell Grandpa, hey, you got to get out of there. I know you've been in this. Maybe like have some but wolf reinforcements. Like why are wolves always going into the house? Like typically didn't the guys leave to hunt the wolves. So clearly they've done a horrible job if the wolves were still just around the house the entire time and they're up in the mountains looking for them.
01:30:38
Speaker
Yeah. So kind of a hybrid wolf loser, but also did a lot of damage too. So maybe a bit of both. All right. Another loser is the creature for being in the wrong place in the wrong time, like several times. And in two things, like he is framed for murder twice just because he's in the wrong place in the wrong time.
01:30:57
Speaker
He's like... hunched over his, you know, surrogate father, the old man, and then in comes in a bunch of Elmer Fudd's like, oh, you did this. And then an hour later in the movie, you know, Oscar Isaac accidentally kills his brother's soon to be wife. Yeah.
01:31:15
Speaker
And then, ever oh, look at the all these guys run in with their, you know, ah proverbial pitchforks. Look at that. was just like, Man, what a loser, creature. You're just not in the right place. They didn't even take time to realize it was a bullet wound. And the only guy holding the gun is Oscar Isaac. like My God. Look at this monster.
01:31:31
Speaker
I know. Silly. ah What's another loser? Yeah, that was it. I mean, other than we had already mentioned it, but missed opportunity for hanging dong. Okay. um Mary Shelley, but just for one reason. lose Okay. okay Just for what she's no largely winner, but in this situation, loser.
01:31:52
Speaker
Del Toro makes this faithful adaptation to her and does, a I think, a stupendous job. It's going to win Oscars. And then at the very end of the movie, instead of a Mary Shelley quote, he's going to use a Lord Byron quote, yeah which is like one of her friends.
01:32:07
Speaker
I was just like... The quote wasn't even that great. i don't really remember it. you know, that's exactly what I thought when they showed the quote. i was like, if you're going to end your film with a quote, make sure it's a good quote. And I was like, eh, that's okay. What was the quote? I don't even remember. It wasn't memorable is the point.
01:32:23
Speaker
Well, it, I can tell you what it was because again, i have the movie right here. And thus the heart will break yet brokenly live on. sounds like a Celine Dion lyric.
01:32:34
Speaker
My heart will go on.
Iconic line omission: 'It's alive'
01:32:36
Speaker
Something like that. yeah Yeah. Not great. yeah um I also had ah subtext was a loser. already talked about that. The butterfly is a loser because it just gets trapped and nothing really happens.
01:32:49
Speaker
Oh, really was missing. It's alive. Oh, that's a good point. It's alive. We never heard it. Never heard it. Was that? I was missing that.
01:33:00
Speaker
Mel Brooks, who directed is. Yes, he did. Young Frankenstein, but it it came from the James Whale. Oh, it's from the... Okay. I did not know that. That's like where that famous... Okay.
01:33:10
Speaker
And then they riff on it in Young Frankenstein. So we needed that we needed the townspeople with the pitchforks and torches. I like it. All right. Last award, our Scream King, Scream Queen of the film. um i had no problem picking my winner here.
01:33:31
Speaker
Uh... And you know, a lot of people might say del Toro, but I as we talked about, the I Well, here's my case against him, and that is that the love he has for this project and the closeness he has to it and how he's already told the story so many times, I think detracts what I think the best part of the movie is, which is, I think it's Jacob Elordi.
Performance and production design highlights
01:33:53
Speaker
And I know you didn't like the look of his character, yeah but I think he, the, the, what he did with his presence and his frame and his range of, like I said, curiosity to anger, to sentimentality, to empathy,
01:34:08
Speaker
ah It's the only performance that is getting close to being nominated. It's the only universal praise about the film that I can find aside from production design. And he just brought the movie home for me. I just yeah loved his. i I thought he was OK.
01:34:23
Speaker
I didn't think he was bad. I didn't think he was great. I know I've been trying to go do insane is great. wholetan and Yeah, I refuse to say it because it it was past your your. Could I can I maybe give you one more option can if you say no to Del Toro, which was mine and I agree with what you said and I'm Not too hot over Lorty. What about Tamara Deverell?
01:34:44
Speaker
Do you know who that is? What? She is in charge of production design on the crew. And I feel like that's what carried this film more than anything else. And we've never really given it to a underbilled crew member before.
01:35:01
Speaker
You know what, Trav? When you said an alternative, I was like, what's this bullshit going be? What are you going say right now? are you going to say like Mary Shelley or are you going to say? No, I wanted to give it to Tamara. Hopefully I'm pronouncing her name right in her team because they freaking killed it. And back to your point, I.
01:35:19
Speaker
I do hope they win production design at the Academy Awards, even over my kid. That is probably the only other answer I would have been cool with. Because i as I just said, the two, well, I was going to see universal universal praise for both, but now it's 99% of people because you now don't like Elordi. So the only thing of you know actual universal praise would be production design. I'm fine giving it to, what is it?
01:35:43
Speaker
We need more movies. oh Tamara Deverell. Tamara or Tamara? Tamara. I've said it both ways just to make sure we've covered our bases.
01:35:55
Speaker
We need more movies like this, like not CGI, everything done in post, actually well done like sets that like you said, you can, oh god I'm going to get the phrase wrong, but track with a camera through a shot.
01:36:08
Speaker
perfect And so like, it it just looks so great. and I loved it. I think when you pan across ah a character walking through these sets, it looks beautiful. Yes. Yes.
01:36:18
Speaker
um ah No, i think I think you're right. I think Deverell and the production design team, because it's always more than one person, ah definitely deserve. and and you know i you know As you know, I work on a lot of commercials, and it is so fun to watch the art department and the set decks and the production designers do their thing because ah yeah it's you're creating worlds, literally. You're creating ah you know really rich worlds. They have a lot of autonomy, man. i mean The director has final say, but a good director leans on very accomplished and skilled artists in that way. And they, they come up with a lot of their own stuff.
01:36:56
Speaker
So cool. So yeah, man, well, that does it for us. Um, again, kind of a longer one for, yeah, it is a longer one. I'm curious when people will listen to this. Cause I know since we get into spoiler territory, they might wait until after the film's released, but, um,
01:37:11
Speaker
if you have not I think most people know. Yeah, most people know the tale of Frankenstein. Exactly, exactly. for couple years If you haven't seen it yet or waiting for it to drop on Netflix, still still definitely recommend. I know I was a bit more cold in some aspects, but it's ah it's a very, very well-made film.
01:37:27
Speaker
Highly recommend you see it. I do. I do want to give a shout out. I want to thank everybody who made this ah Halloween season so fun for us. You ah allowed us to end that whole experience on a high and by giving us our highest downloaded.
01:37:43
Speaker
Mark at the four day mark for a pod on the Halloween episode, yeah which is cool. Cause that's an older movie. And we typically see, ah you know, more volume of listening. None of you guys listen to poltergeist episode. don't know what's wrong with the polter guy for but poltergeist guys. For some reason, just no one listened to that pod.
01:38:00
Speaker
They're not here. ah So thank you for that. And then as you know, Travis, I'm still in your thunder. usually say this, but please follow us on Spotify, Apple podcast. And if you like us, give us a five star review. if you really like us, write a little thing about it and say, what's up.
01:38:16
Speaker
um Do you want to tell us what's next? jeff i I don't know. So for November, The only new release we're targeting this month is Keeper. Right. But that is not coming out for that's another week. Exactly. So to lead up to Keeper, we are doing Osgood Perkins' 2024 horror thriller Longlegs. Yep.
01:38:36
Speaker
horrorthriller and long legs yeah We could have done his other 2025 film, The Monkey. I know. But we like Long Legs better, which is why we're going to cover it next week. We do. We'll do a Monkey at some point, I imagine. You've said it'd be very good for this pod and awards and stuff. Yeah, yeah. We'll do it. You know you know what? We'll do it. We'll do it when we do a big King ah series. Yeah, yeah.
01:38:55
Speaker
The Stephen King series. Perfect. All right, guys. Thank you for listening. We'll see you next week. Bye. Bye.