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Black Christmas (1974)
110 Plays2 months ago
Tis the season for Rick and Trav to unbox one of their favorite Christmas horror films in Bob Clark's 1974 grand daddy of slashers, Black Christmas.
(00:00) - Random Banter
(03:22) - Favorite Holiday Movies
(05:50)- Movie News
(08:03) - Intro
(09:34) - Synopsis
(10:54) - Overall Thoughts
(16:11) - Themes
(20:13) - Production Notes
(26:30) - Casting
(35:05) - Scare-O-Meter
-Spoilers Beyond this point!-
(36:22) - Highlights
(42:30) - Deep Cuts
(43:49) - Awards
(01:11:04) - Scream King / Queen
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Transcript
Introduction & Year-End Plans
00:00:30
Speaker
All right, we are back with our last film review of the year. Review? Rick, how are you doing? We're celebrating film, Travis.
00:00:40
Speaker
Well, I think it's a positive review, so I could stand by that word. Rick, we we have our spookies coming up, and I'll release the week after this, which we'll probably just record in a few days, though, of real time from when we're recording this one.
00:00:56
Speaker
And that's it. Then we're taking two weeks off for the holidays. We're almost there. We are officially over six months now into this podcast too. So congrats. Happy holidays. How does it feel to be ah where we are?
00:01:10
Speaker
It feels good. And I feel good, man.
Podcasting Milestone Celebration
00:01:15
Speaker
we've been We haven't missed a non-holiday week. We've been consistent. Yeah. we've got a few We've had a few late publishers here and there.
00:01:24
Speaker
For those who are big Five Nights at Freddy fans, I apologize. It was my turn to edit. And... ah Got out a little late, but you know. but we did it. But we did it. And this is what our 27th film. Now we featured on the pod. 28 if we count ah The Nightmare Before Christmas, that eight minute episode I did with my daughters. 29 if you include the top 10 zombie list that we did.
00:01:50
Speaker
Yeah. i I need to go back. I'm surprised more people haven't listened to that. That is our least listened to episode. but i think yeah I think our friends out of... ah It's like Council Bluffs, Idaho. Yes, Council Bluffs. yeah Council Bluffs. Yeah.
Kurt Russell's Set Stories
00:02:05
Speaker
um I'm good, man. Kurt wrapped his final day on the project.
00:02:09
Speaker
So well it's not goodbye because he's still coming back for the wrap party this Saturday and then we do a promo shoot on Sunday. So um I still have... two days to hang with him, but final day on set was this past Wednesday and we celebrated and we had we had a few beers, we had a few we had a few smokes.
00:02:29
Speaker
He told me about him and Goldie Hawn falling in love, which was like the coolest thing ever to be have like a one on one about him. Yeah, it was just cool. I was just telling him about, you know, meeting somebody ah and how that's been going for me. And then he had this big smile on his face. He's like, well, let me tell you about my little love story. And he just like turned into the entertainer as he always is.
00:02:53
Speaker
I've brought it up before, but already have a lot of respect for Kurt Russell. But I add to that even more with being one of the few Hollywood couples that has truly stayed together for forty decades years now. 45 years. And you know what one of their rules is? They never go more than two weeks without seeing each other.
00:03:13
Speaker
They made it when they first met and they've stuck to it. That's great, especially sure for two celebrities who are traveling all the time. Yeah, really hard to do for their ah
Favorite Holiday Movies
00:03:21
Speaker
line of work. um Outside of horror, just in general, do you have a short list of your favorite yeah Christmas, favorite winter holiday movies? Yeah, the big three for me are Christmas Vacation, the Santa Claus, and and The Grinch, The Jim Carrey Grinch. yeah I mean, i can i can I can expand this to five, but you asked for three. Those are like my my holy. No, I just said your top list.
00:03:46
Speaker
Oh, OK, well, then. Polar Express is on there as well, which is very controversial. A lot of people yeah find that the in the dancing in the ah the uncanny valley, which I get. But there's something calming about it to me. But yeah, those are those are my big ones.
00:04:01
Speaker
I agree with most other than Polar Express and those would be on my list. The only ones that add to it is um Love Home Alone. yeah I think that's my number one. I love, love, love Home Alone. And then um It's a Wonderful Life. we We watch that with my family every year.
00:04:16
Speaker
It is a great film. Jimmy Stewart. I got a shout out. I got a shout out a Christmas story by ah Bob Clark, director of Black Christmas. Yes. Well, of of course. um although i wanted to I like it, but not one of my favorites. And then i know I know you're not as high on this one, but I really like Elf and my girls really like Elf. So we've been watching Elf a lot recently.
00:04:37
Speaker
i ah I like Elf. I think I've seen it too many times at this point that I need to like lay off for five years and then return to it in a bit. ah All right, pull out my letterboxd list. it looks It looks like it's Grinch is one, Nightmare for Christmas is two, Polar Express is three, Die Hard's four, Santa Claus is five, Home Alone six, Christmas Vacation seven, um and then Year Without a Santa Claus is eight. Holdovers is... up Oh, the Holdovers. Holdovers is rising in the ranks. It's got is it's got a few more years, but... Yeah, that was a phenomenal film. that was That was a really, really good film. Maybe my favorite with Paul Giamatti in it.
00:05:15
Speaker
So when you say your family, your family, your nuclear, like your how do you just how do I distinguish you like your parent family versus like your family with your kids? When you say you watch more for life. When I was a kid, i watched that with my parents, and my siblings growing up.
00:05:30
Speaker
Our movie we've probably watched the most with our kids is Elf, which is why I laughed when you said you need lay off of it because I've watched Elf at least a dozen times in the past month already. it's Good movie. It's good movie. Yeah. Bye, buddy. Hope you find your dad. Yes. I said that to somebody on set the other day. They had no idea what I was talking about.
Netflix's Business Moves
00:05:50
Speaker
Did we skip over movie news? Because I had one little thing. What's going on? It was just an update to our Netflix conversation, which is that a few days after Netflix, WB agreed to the Netflix acquisition of $82.7 billion. eighty two point seven billion dollars A hot-headed Ellison family behind Paramount, my current employer, oddly enough, behind Paramount Skydance, put in a, quote, hostile bid of $100 billion. dollars Now, weird distinction here, Travis. you know how a hostile bid works?
00:06:19
Speaker
Well, I was going to talk to you about that. um Let me say first the distinction between the two, and then I want to ask you if I'm right about what a hostile bid is. But $100 billion sounds like, okay, that's $20 billion more. Why don't why doesn't WB just say yes to it? Well, it's because it includes more properties.
00:06:36
Speaker
Um, Netflix just wanted to buy the streaming service and the, uh, film catalog, of you know, WD WB studios, but they didn't, they wanted to leave alone the, um, the cable business. Well, Paramount is interested in the whole kit and caboodle. So their cable service includes CNN cartoon network TCM. I mean, let's be honest, the Trump friendly Ellison's really just want CNN.
00:07:00
Speaker
um Back to being a hostile bid or a hostile takeover, whatever you want to call it. Is it because the shareholders don't want this, but if they if they give them offer they can't refuse?
00:07:12
Speaker
like what maybe Maybe you just explain. Yeah, that's pretty close. I mean, it's just Warner Brothers Discovery is a publicly traded company. So the CEO of Warner Brothers Discovery could say, yes, we're going let Netflix buy us out.
00:07:25
Speaker
But if Paramount essentially convinces the shareholders in the market, it could start even buying up stock to have more of a voice in the room, to have close to controlling interest or substantial interest in the company, that would change the dynamic where all of sudden, you know they they could go buy these shares on the open market and essentially have their own offering to buy up enough of the company directly from the shareholders.
00:07:47
Speaker
as opposed to having to worry about the CEO and then they could just ouster the the entire, you know, management and and board as they see fit. We're going to buy this company by just hitting the streets as opposed to going top down. It's more of a bottom up approach to take over the company. Anyways, this is the Sunday Scaries. I'm Travis Telerik.
00:08:06
Speaker
Ricky Townsend. I'm Ricky Townsend. I'm Ricky Townsend. I do. You were just throwing out some guy random guy's name. Billy. Billy.
00:08:17
Speaker
Billy.
'Black Christmas' and its Impact
00:08:19
Speaker
Today we are covering maybe the grandfather of slashers, which is also fittingly a Christmas movie in Black Christmas.
00:08:28
Speaker
So Bob Clark's... ah I don't know. Would you call it revolutionary film? Maybe at the time it wasn't seen as much or was a revolutionary. See, when I think of more it is revolutionary, I think revolutionary means at the time it caused a revolution,
00:08:46
Speaker
widespread and I don't think, I mean, I think filmmakers paid attention to it and obviously they were impacted by it, but I don't, the general like critics and, and, um, movie goers, I don't think understood how important this was when it came out. So, so yeah, this film came out in 1974, again, directed by Bob Clark and we could talk more about production notes in a while, but I had not seen it before. This was my first time watching it. And as a horror fan, it was one of my big blind spots. I'm glad I got around to it. I know you have seen it before. Do do you want to tell me if your opinion has gotten better, gotten worse upon rewatch?
00:09:29
Speaker
what What are your overall thoughts? And I could give you my fresh take having just seen it. My opinion. Well, first of all, it's the synopsis is during their Christmas break, a group of sorority girls are stalked by a stranger.
00:09:40
Speaker
That's very true. I want to say that a came out the same day as Texas Chainsaw Massacre, which is wild. Yeah, this was in Canada. It's opening it because it was a domestic release in Canada. um Maybe in production. Why is you this credited so much as the Godfather of Slashers than instead of the Texas Chainsaw Massacre? They came out same day.
00:10:01
Speaker
Um, probably because the the tropes that black Christmas uses was, ah I think more emulated. i mean, I think Texas Chainsaw Massacre is a better movie, but if you look at like the POV of the mask and the using a knife and the horny sorority girls, like I think you could probably pick apart a lot more,
00:10:28
Speaker
like repeatable themes and repeatable tropes versus Texas Chainsaw Massacre was like a seminal piece of work that is harder to replicate. ah That said more about like the, the rural decay of America. And, you know, they both have institutional breakdown just in different ways, but I don't know. That's my best. That's my best guess. We should Rick Worland would be a better person ask that. But, um but um this has always been a solid one for me. It's, it's, it's just,
00:10:58
Speaker
It is, I find it very scary. And ah I thought going into this that maybe that would change a bit just because I've, ah you know, I watched this in college and I've seen a lot since then. um But man, that guy's voice on the phone and some of these images, they'll stick with me tonight. Like when i when i I'm going to sleep alone tonight and I'm like,
00:11:18
Speaker
There's just something so ah blatant and in your face and and indifferent and insane about this movie. And there's lack of closure and ah the mean spiritedness of it.
00:11:31
Speaker
It's just it's it's I think it's great. I think it's ah a really solid four out of five movie. um And yeah, i think i I think I liked it the second time more. i know what did What did you think? I mean you you've heard about it being kind of a pre-Halloween, ah primordial slasher, if if you will.
00:11:50
Speaker
What did you think? Yeah, I think I agree with you. So directly comparing it to Halloween, because i know Halloween, it it didn't borrow a lot, but know was the inspiration, at least for John Carpenter making that film.
00:12:03
Speaker
I think black Christmas is scarier. i agree with you there in I don't, I like to go back to Halloween. I've seen it multiple times and i I think that will remain true, but black Christmas was a pretty fun, fresh take on, you know Mike Myers is a very stoic and silent villain. The villain in black Christmas is very expressive, right? Like he, all he wants to do is get on the phone and talk to someone and tell them about Billy. Yeah. Him and his, him and his four personalities.
00:12:37
Speaker
So i I like this flavor of a villain um being truly psychotic in this way. And the film doesn't show him like in the act of killing anyone where you can actually see the killer's identity. And so it keeps you guessing the whole way through.
00:12:53
Speaker
And I like that where and in Halloween, like you, you are presented with Mike Myers, it it leaves more to your imagination again in Black Christmas with what's going on. I've brought that up before, especially, you know, in this early era of there's there's good practical effects in the 70s. But they said, Hey, we don't have to invest heavily in that we can keep a lot of this off screen and still achieve the same amount of scares. So I really like it for that reason. I just like you said, this is a solid four out of five movie, which is good for usually I'm a bit harder on older films. I don't always you don't you don't give it the same just because of historic precedence i'm more lenient i give more points for historical precedence than you do we've we've always talked about that and so for you to give a 74 film fours is i would say that's high praise yeah so it's right up there with some of the other 70 like this texas chainsaw massacre halloween these are
00:13:42
Speaker
some of my favorite slasher-esque films of the probably are my favorite slashers. I do have other 70s horror movies I like more than this, most notably Alien and then Invasion of the Body Snatchers. um But this is this is up there. This is right behind those.
00:14:00
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, I feel like going back to your question, i I'm trying to think about it because it's a great question, especially given the same date that they came out. um I feel like Black Christmas,
00:14:13
Speaker
I feel like Texas Chanson Massacre changed how horror could feel. It's a very icky feeling, and it's it's rotten. And I said a word before, decaying. But Black Christmas changed how horror would work, like how it is structured.
00:14:27
Speaker
You know what i mean Like it it it has such a tried and true structure from like the final girl, you know, in Jess. Yeah. um To like the the the PO, the the unknowable killer, you know, not knowing what the hell is happening. um Holiday is horror.
00:14:48
Speaker
You know, there's Halloween, Christmas. Yeah. Leprechaun. ah Heavy breathing phone calls. a killer inside the house kind of stuff.
00:14:59
Speaker
um Also, i think this this movie does it really well but kill sequences that are built around suspense rather than gore. um And obviously that would, they would forget that rule as they could try to create all this. But like,
00:15:12
Speaker
i yeah I could rattle off a bunch of movies that this thing spawned off and i with more ease than I could with Texas Chainsaw Massacre, right? Like Halloween, Friday the 13th, Prom Night.
00:15:24
Speaker
That makes sense. Yeah. I think you've sold me on why this is given more credit for... really being the building block of the slasher. Which is a weird, ah it's a weird thing to say, right? Because you are a horror buff, you know that. But I think if you ask anybody down the street, your average moviegoer would be like, well, Texas Chainsaw Massacre is a much bigger film, which it is. Yes. But like, if if you know, and you're in the in that sub genre in that world. Yeah, like you said, you know, this gets a lot of credit, whereas the other one just is is bigger.
00:15:51
Speaker
and and maybe Yeah, and then and then Halloween right rides on the shoulders of this, where John Carpenter again specifically cited this film as his inspiration, not Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Yeah, man. Great movie. um yeah Yeah, I think we're great. this is This is a solid entry, and it makes sense why it spawned this entire subgenre.
00:16:10
Speaker
um I don't know. like Theme-wise...
Themes & Tones in 'Black Christmas'
00:16:14
Speaker
anything yeah trying to un unravel here? Yeah, I think the the big one to me was institutional breakdown.
00:16:21
Speaker
um You can't rely on authority figures at all in this movie. Yeah. the house That's a great one. That's a great one. The house mother is a drunk. Okay. She's supposed to be the maternal figure there. The cops are a joke.
00:16:34
Speaker
You know, one of them doesn't even know what fellatio means. The other ones are like joking around saying this, probably your boyfriend calling the head cop takes forever to take it seriously. the search parties seem pretty disorganized. I'm not going to lie Well, well-meaning, but like, i don't know what they're doing there. Um, and the school too, like the school. Yeah.
00:16:54
Speaker
Yeah. Um, I agree. Institutional breakdown is probably the strongest theme for how this was all able to happen. And everyone just seems i don't i't know if you but like if ive I take a step back, especially my second time watching, everybody just seems either like drunk or upset or aloof.
00:17:11
Speaker
No one seems like ah in community with each other. Like Jess is the only person who's like focused on this task at hand. Everybody else is kind of distracted and lot of disparate energy going on. And some of it's not their fault. And you and Phil phil Phyllis, who I love. I think she's like another character that's like dialed in and actually wants to like yeah help.
00:17:30
Speaker
But it's It's kind of a mean-spirited movie. I think I first noticed that when a father who is looking for his daughter, who we all know is dead, we first see him meek and kind of confused glasses on and he gets a snowball to the face for no other reason than just to see him punished further than what he's already going to go through. Yeah. um So that that's and i I found it interesting that and and we won't spoil it yet, but like one of the last lines in the movie is like, we got to get this person to a hospital. And I'm like, I didn't have any faith that that hospital is going to do anything for this person because they've already shown me in this world that this society has is on the verge of collapse or just is is yeah unproductive.
00:18:15
Speaker
nobody's coming to save you. It's one of those films. No, not at all. I like that. I really like that. I think that hits the nail on the head. um Well, yeah, I just had one other observation about it. And this is goes back to like more things that I like, just like something that I just noticed this time. But this is like, despite being mean spirited and scary,
00:18:35
Speaker
ah it's It also has like some very cozy elements to it. Did you feel that? like The firelight in the background and the Christmas accoutrement and the carolers. Despite what horrible shit is going on, I did feel like a sense of odd coziness at times. yeah It's a very fitting Christmas movie, I think, for that reason. is They capture...
00:18:58
Speaker
the the charming side of the holiday a lot better than you know i guess the other way you sometimes see chris is portrayed as cold and amongst all the revelry you really feel alone and isolated and this this does lean more towards the warmer side i think like you said and comforting side yeah which is funny because it's really the antithesis of then what what happens in the film Do you, speaking of the word funny, did you find, would you say this movie is funny or just that there's this funny? Yeah, I think it's kind of a black comedy. Like every time they show the cops, like you were saying, they're not just inept, but it's like comical when they go cut to the yeah police station. It literally reminds me of the show South Park whenever they go to the police station there and the cops are just absolutely not helping at all to the point of satire. And and that's what...
00:19:48
Speaker
He's going to feel like, and that makes sense with Bob Clark because he directs comedies after this. And so ah that's more his language maybe than than horror. Although horror and comedy are yeah the the perfect coupling of genres. And so it works well in this film. Yeah.
00:20:04
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. It's hard to watch this movie and not see us like a little wry smile despite it's it's mean, but it's got a a smile to it. All right, production notes. Let's do it.
00:20:16
Speaker
all right so right, so $686,000 budget. I probably should have thought through inflation adjusted numbers, but it'd be at least probably like four times that now. So we're talking like 2.8, maybe $3 million dollars on budget. so um From that, it made approximately $4 million dollars worldwide.
00:20:38
Speaker
So again, going back to the original figure, just under 700K budget, $4 million dollars worldwide is decent. Critically, it was not that well received at the time.
00:20:49
Speaker
um despite the the pretty good box office numbers. But as we mentioned earlier, this has aged like a fine wine with ah many more people now praising the film for its place and the horror canon or slasher canon.
00:21:06
Speaker
um made by Bob Clark. So like we said, he yeah this is a bit atypical to do a horror movie for him. He's probably most famous for a Christmas Story. Definitely, yeah. and even I would say even Porky's, wouldn' isn't Porky's more well-known than this movie? I would say. ah I'd say there you know if the S tier is A Christmas Story, Porky's in this are probably the A tier. But his other two big films he's known for are both comedies.
00:21:29
Speaker
Yeah. I have not seen Porky's, by the way. I have not either. I've A Christmas Story. Okay. I think my Shyamalan twist for the Halloween pod, like for the pod itself, was Rick Worland saying that Porky's is like a well-regarded comedy that is interesting to watch. Whereas like everything else I've heard about it is like... Just based on name in my understanding. Well, just like everything I've heard is like that and like Revenge of the Nerds has like promoted rape culture and like... really blurry lines with consent. And so I wonder, is, has the bell curve swooped back around where Rick Morland is on the forefront of being like, well, actually, yes, it's in bad taste, but it does this very interesting. So now I'm like kind of compelled to watch Porky's once the year's over.
00:22:11
Speaker
um But dude, I was gonna ask you if you, if you looked, I, it, I've always heard that. And I know you, you typically take the lead in production notes, which is why I'm asking you the, the theatrical release of blacks, black Christmas was very wonky.
00:22:24
Speaker
If I remember correctly. Like it was released only in Canada and then they tried to do it in the U S and they changed the name to like silent night. some Oh, I didn't know this part, but yes, it's, it was initially released in Canada that I know. And that's where Bob Clark's from. And you know, that's where they're taking the inspiration for the film from um,
00:22:43
Speaker
I know since they lead with worldwide, right? Box office numbers. And this is an era pre-Jaws. So this isn't going to be these wide, wide releases. One year before, one year before Jaws. Yeah. More specific to certain areas and theaters showing it. That makes sense. did not know that though.
00:23:00
Speaker
Actually, once it got, once it got to the US, it was released a month after Jaws, August 1975, oddly enough. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So it was released in Canada ah in October.
00:23:13
Speaker
um It went on to make $1.3 million. Warner Brothers thought that it could earn at least $7 million in the U.S., so they released it in December of that year.
00:23:24
Speaker
But it only it made less than half a million dollars because of Godfather Part Two and Man with the Golden Gun. um And so didn't make a lot of money. They changed the title to s Silent Night, Evil Night because they thought everybody would think it was a blaxploitation movie because of the word black in it.
00:23:45
Speaker
And then they changed it back. But this mangled release did not help matters. And they re-released it in August of the following year, 1975. And it made a bunch of money in one week. And then...
00:23:58
Speaker
ended up making a million anyways, stop and start fits and starts. Like you said, staggered release, very staggered release. Didn't know what to do with it. I think the marketing team was just like really confused and all that.
Canadian Identity of 'Black Christmas'
00:24:10
Speaker
But, um but yeah, they're just like, is it black Christmas? Is it Salina evil night? Is it, this is a Canada thing. Is this an American thing? So, you know, last thing, going back to Bob Clark real quick is um Nick Mancuso does the majority of the voice work for the killer because again, he's primarily off screen, but you do see glimpses of him, not where you can tell his identity, especially earlier in the film.
00:24:35
Speaker
But they did not get Nick Mancusa to do a lot of that. Bob Clark was actually the body double for many of those scenes. Is that his eyeball we see through the... that's why i was I couldn't find an exact list of when it was him. But that is probably the you know the most telling or clear shot of the killer. And don't know whose eye that was. I don't know Bob Clark's eyes. not stared deeply into them and enough. We know his eye. We just don't know his eye. you know Cinematically, so to speak.
00:25:03
Speaker
Oh, okay. Okay. um And then Roy Moore wrote the screenplay. This was inspired from a series of holiday murders in Montreal, but back in the 1940s. So inspiration being you know up in Canada where they made the movie.
00:25:17
Speaker
Oh, there was this other string of Christmas-related holiday-related murders then. And they thought this would make for a great film. the you know They transported here to a sorority house, which was different than the real events the nineteen forty s but It was really just the the genius stroke of mixing a holiday with a serial killer.
00:25:36
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, it's a winning formula. It worked. um Very Canadian film too. Like straight up, just this is ah this is a Canadian film. Like it wasn't just film there. it wasn't just made by Canadian. It's like all Canadian.
00:25:50
Speaker
Most of the actors, a lot of the actors too, at least. Yep. um Yeah. margot Margot Kidder. Margot Kidder was a Canadian, I believe. Was a Canadian? Yeah. Change your citizenship? No, she died, Travis.
00:26:03
Speaker
Oh, okay. that's When people die, they are no longer, it's more of a was than is. But you wouldn't say like George Washington was an American, right? Yes, you would. Would you say he is? He's not alive, Travis. He does not exist.
00:26:18
Speaker
Maybe when you transcend... What are you talking about? legacy or so This is a stretch. present ts Yeah, Benjamin Franklin is an American. How does that sound to you? This sounds like I'm time-hopping here.
00:26:31
Speaker
Okay. um Olivia Hussey plays the lead role here as Jess. She's great in this. This is um Juliet from Franco Zeffirelli's 1968 Romeo and Juliet, which was the version I watched, I remember, and high school I think maybe it was middle school but I've seen the film before while in class growing up she was a babe back then she no longer well yeah she's dead Travis well yeah she's also dead travis
00:27:03
Speaker
Also dead. Okay. I don't know who's still living and who is dead from from this cast list. You can just fill in those blanks as the color commentator. She was also Audra Denborough in ah the 1990 TV adaptation of It, which is um oh no not a primary character, but a side character who's a notable side character.
00:27:22
Speaker
Kerr Dullia plays Peter, her boyfriend. This is another glaring blind spot of mine. i have not seen 2001 Space Odyssey, Kubrick's film, but he plays the lead in that, I believe, right? Oh, he's the astronaut. He's the astronaut, yeah. David Bowman.
00:27:41
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Trav, do yourself a favor. Take a little Eddie. Watch that movie. Call it. Yeah, I need to see it. I really do. i mean, you know, classic my watch list. It's just gets growing and growing. but that That's one the films on it. That's a big biggie. That's a biggie.
00:27:58
Speaker
what probably the most well-known name yeah probably the most well-known has to be margot kidder who you're just talking about is barb yeah um this is lois lane from the original superman movies i think she was in the first four films and she's also scream queen she was in halloween 2 she was in amityville horror goes on to have a big career and and diploma's sisters which is a fantastic movie if you haven't seen that oh it's great okay Great weird duality identity crisis movie about twins and it's super weird and fucked up and great.
00:28:30
Speaker
OK. ah John Saxon, he plays the chief of police. He plays the same character he does in Nightmare on Elm Street. Yeah, that's why was looking at his filmography. Yep. And he's also, he's played a police authority figure in multiple films. He was also in From Dusk Till Dawn to Nombre to other horror films. Yeah. Plenty other horror films. A lot scream queens and kings in this movie. Yeah.
00:28:57
Speaker
Who else is notable here? Oh, Andrea Martin. So you said you like Phil as the other character who's working with Jess to actually figure out what's going on. I really liked You know what else she's from? She has one very notable role. No, she's so familiar though. What is it? She is Aunt Vula from My Big Fat Greek Wedding.
00:29:13
Speaker
Oh my God. Who is the aunt who brings all the comedy the film, but most notably when she finds out the main girl's boyfriend is a vegetarian. What do you mean you don't eat meat? That's okay. That's okay.
00:29:25
Speaker
I make lamb, which is one of my favorite lines from ah maybe... I'd put it in my top 25 film lines of all time. Wow. Her delivery of that deep cut. um Yeah. So I didn't want to be too hyperbolic, but I think it's, that I just thought she, she brought like some warmth, but also some like a much needed, like moral concern to the movie.
00:29:53
Speaker
Jess is frazzled. She's like the, she's like the Velma friend in the friend group, not the Daphne. Why? Cause she's got glasses. Yeah. Yeah. good. Barb's the Daphne, right?
00:30:04
Speaker
Barb's the babe. No. Well, Jess is the, Jess is Daphne. Barb is ah a problem. Barb, we we'll talk about Barb. She's, she's got two things on her mind and one of them a bottle and the other thing's in a male organ.
00:30:17
Speaker
Yeah. um And then there's Art Hendel as Chris. I really like Art Hendel. Lots of 70s horror films. and then I think he pretty much disappeared. But he was the lead in k Cronenberg, another Canadian. He was the lead in Cronenberg's The Brood. And then he's one of the supporting roles in Invasion of the Body Statures.
00:30:35
Speaker
So he was just doing doing numbers on horror films, yeah especially Canadian horror films in the 70s. But was also one of Bob Clark's guys because he was in Porky's and Porky's 2. Oh, yeah okay. Again, obviously, porkies, but yes, that's a great catch. great catch um Only other notable one, i very minor, but Lynn Griffin, who's Claire from this film. She's also the grandma in Halloween that you see around seated around the table at the very beginning the film. Only bring that up because we just covered Halloween. Sorry, not Halloween. no She's the grandma Thanksgiving. Have the wrong holiday.
00:31:08
Speaker
Okay. I was like, there is no grandma. There's no old people on Halloween. Except for Dr. Loomis running around. um Wrong holiday named film.
00:31:20
Speaker
She is the grandma in Thanksgiving, which we also just covered. I hope she's in a Halloween movie at some point because then she'd hit the trifecta. She's in Black Christmas, Thanksgiving. my God. i And i assume she's still living because Thanksgiving only came out a few years ago. She is. At the ripe age of 73, but she's still
Remakes of 'Black Christmas'
00:31:39
Speaker
here.
00:31:39
Speaker
So then this movie had two remakes. Neither of which I have seen. um One in 2006, directed by Glenn Morgan, starring a bunch of people. The only name I recognized was Lacey Chabert, who is a babe. And in Mean Girls, as well as ah Not Another Teen ah movie.
00:31:57
Speaker
Is that Gretchen Wiener? Yes. No, wait. Okay, yeah. yeah Gretchen. No, Gretchen is Rachel McAdams. Lacey Chabert is... No, Gretchen Wiener is the um the one who's... debt or what's What's their fortune?
00:32:13
Speaker
he He didn't own it You're right. you're Sorry. but You're right. It is Gretchen Wiener's. That's my bad. That's Lacey Chabert, now a conservative pundit um on Fox News. So glad that you're going well for her.
00:32:26
Speaker
um But... ah And when was the other remake? Well, hold on. That 2006 version, I didn't realize this. I thought I had knew all his credits, but it was produced by my buddy's dad, James Wong, who directed the first Final Destination movie.
00:32:40
Speaker
Wait, I didn't know that either. I knew he did the first Final Destination, the third Final Destination, the last Airbender. Sorry, not the last Airbender, Dragon Ball Z. We don't talk about that one. He did Dragon Ball but I didn't know he did that as well. No, but he didn't direct the 2006 remake, but he produced it because Glenn Morgan, he works with Glenn Morgan a lot, and they had just come off three years earlier off of Willard, which is also a remake with Willard.
00:33:06
Speaker
ah Crispin Glover and um was a financial success. Critics were just mediocre in it, but a budget under 10 million and it made 21. So for a small budget horror film to double it, you don't need to do the 2.5 X thing if it's not a huge film. And it did that. And then they did it again. 2019 by Sophia to call again, starring a bunch of people. I do not recognize except for Imogen Poots and Carrie ooze.
00:33:35
Speaker
use our boy poots is good at horror films i did not realize she was in that what else is she in she's in vivarium um she's in what's the film with the green isn't she in green room she's in vivarium maybe think she's agreed and 28 weeks later oh maybe she's not green room do you have the wrong actress on that one i don't know i just like she's vivarium and 28 later um But the problem with 2019 and it didn't make no Yeah. much Green room as well. So she's in lot of films.
00:34:06
Speaker
um Dude, 2019. The thing that people had to issue with was one. It was like very overt political messaging in it about like a lot of social issues that people are just like, look, I'm just here to see a horror film. And if you want to have stuff in there make it more and more subtle, I'm But it was also pizza their team I don't know why the hell you would do that.
00:34:25
Speaker
Yeah. so If I'm seeing sorority girls get murdered, better be hard. Also, there better not be a lot of political messaging in there. The Venn diagram doesn't have a ton of overlap.
00:34:36
Speaker
I want blood, tits, and no politics. That's my yeah that's my platform. i want blood, tits, and a fresh take on the Israel-Gaza situation. like That is a mess over there.
00:34:49
Speaker
Really? That's where I'm going to get my information. ah But yeah. Cool. Well, that's all I have for production notes. Do you have anything else we can enlighten our listeners with? or Nope. let's ah Let's keep talking here and get to our scurometer.
00:35:08
Speaker
You said you found this is a pretty scary film. I did. Where are you on the 3-2-1?
Horror Elements & Analysis
00:35:16
Speaker
I thought that was just Scream King Queen. We can do we could do this as well. we got Should we pick one to do it with? I feel like it's more fun to do it on this one.
00:35:24
Speaker
because Yeah, you're right. Because the chance of us saying a similar number are probably more likely than... Unless it's the last episode where everyone says Toy Chica. i We should end on a high note and never do it again because three out of four got Toy Chica. okay Which is just hilarious. yeah Just this one. I'm with you. All right.
00:35:43
Speaker
Three, two, one, seven. Five. Seven? yeah That's incredibly high. that's That's what bring her back high for you. That's that's up there with our scariest films. like It gets me, man. Some of the Conjuring films have given 7 too.
00:35:59
Speaker
It's going to average out to a 6, but yeah, it gets me. like i The guy's voice... what you can hear, what you can't hear and the images of dead people in this movie, especially with that fucking plastic bag. Yeah. I don't know, man. It just does something to me. I, I know that's probably sounds high, but I thought about it a lot and i was like, no, I can't get lower than a seven on it, but all right. Highlights, man.
00:36:25
Speaker
I had trouble picking. There's there's a lot of good scenes in this movie. Um, and we're full on spoiler territory now. Yeah. We're in spoiler spoiler mode here. Um, I don't want to step on best death because best death is probably the highlight for me.
00:36:40
Speaker
Okay. I had two non death. Hi. Okay. Then you go first and I'm torn between them. I love the scene at the very start of the film.
00:36:52
Speaker
So glad you're picking a start, Travis. So many times you'll be like, my favorite part is the very end. And I'm like, dude, let's talk about other things before the end. Well, let's wait till you hear what second highlight is. I love the bookends of this film.
00:37:07
Speaker
The start when they're in the sorority house and you get the first phone call from... the the killer at this point known as the Moaner. And nice the these are sorority girls just winding down their Christmas party, all gathered around the phone.
00:37:22
Speaker
Hark the Herald Angel Sings is playing in the background. So like you said, it's this very comfy, Christmassy feeling contrasted against this guy who's getting, as the call goes on, more and more unhinged with what he is saying. yeah and starts getting very ah explicit saying like, let me lick it let me lick it yeah and even a lot more explicit than that but what i failed uh i refuse what did he say i don't know that what what else did he say travis i i forgot you gotta watch the film but it gets a lot more explicit than that and that was just such great contrast in like kicking off the film with just feeling like uh christmas has been ruined essentially like what the hell is going on and so i i love that scene and then i love
00:38:06
Speaker
the ending scene which i'm sure we will reference a few times throughout our conversation um but especially just the cinematography as you have all these people gathered around jess laying in a bed still at the sorority house and they one by one start to leave the room to leave her there alone and then you see the camera start to zoom out and then i'm gonna get the wrong word here so feel free to correct me rick but gonna start uh panning to the right um um it it pans down the hallway so you start going from room to room and no deep travvi you're right because a pan remember this a pan is a circle right a pan needs to have a fixed point and it moves in a circle like it's it's the it's like this is a hinge so it moves okay yeah so i think i think that was a pan correctly because i think it has it's yeah like a tripod and it moves yeah
00:39:01
Speaker
But I love that as you start to see the camera zoom out and start to show the rest of the house because without again showing the killer, now it has been strongly implied that this is not over yet.
00:39:13
Speaker
And I love the way they handle that as opposed to maybe seeing the killer somewhere else. I love them just going from room to room after it. It goes but to me. it goes back to that idea of institutional breakdown and and abandonment. Like the the the people that she puts trust in, whether it's friends, authority figures, caregivers, police, whatever, they're all just trickling out and leaving the threat right in there with her, whether it's because of incompetence. or um lack of care or whatever. not Not a great Christmas for her. What's going to happen? like She's alone in there with that guy now. Yeah, I agree. The ending is phenomenal. I put that in my my list of highlights. um I'm going to save a kill that I think is just fantastic. The highlight I picked is i love in a movie where we are the we are somewhat omniscient in in this movie because...
00:40:07
Speaker
We know that a killer is in that house. We don't know who he is, but we know he's there. Nobody else does. Right. It's like Friday the 13th. We know more than the characters do. Yes. And um Friday the 13th, one of my favorite horror films, because nobody knows like people. The original. Yeah. Nobody knows.
00:40:25
Speaker
You don't like it. That's one of my least. ah It's such a cool. It's such a cool hangout movie to me. I just like that. That's not even in my top 25 film horror films of the eighty s Dude, it's so I think it's so great.
00:40:37
Speaker
i I just vibe out. There's just that summer camp. but They're just hanging, and then people start disappearing. But what I'm saying is- They really killed a snake. You know that? late I'm not surprised.
00:40:48
Speaker
That snake that they killed. Apocalypse Now they killed a real snake in the film. Well, can't support that now i now I protest it. um Dead to me. um But like, it's not until like 20 minutes are left in that film when the first person finally finds a dead body. And it's similar in this film. They don't realize that somebody is actually dead until much later in the film. And there's a But what i guess I guess what I'm getting at is like I love I love the moment of realization of a character that it's been so pent up in us because we're like, look over there. Look at this. like We know this thing's happening.
00:41:23
Speaker
It's when they figure out that the guy's in the house. Yeah. It's when the cop figures out the call is coming from within the house. Yes. he starts making calls and directives and he's like, fuck, you know, tell this, tell Nash to call her and then somebody finds, and then we see that Jennings is dead. The other cop and his throat is slit.
00:41:43
Speaker
Yep. Like, but That whole sequence is phenomenal because like that's when you know you get a second life. like There's a lot of momentum in the beginning where like people start dying and then it lulls into like a mystery a bit and then it gets back into this, okay, we're closing in on this guy.
00:41:58
Speaker
Talk about laying the groundwork for future slashers as well. I think that is a great trope that this one does is people will get killed, but their bodies will not be discovered until later the film. And then as soon as the rest of the protagonists come to the realization of the danger is imminent, that's when like the switch flips and stuff starts to really get crazy. And that yeah that exact trope has been you know used in plenty of slasher films after this.
00:42:26
Speaker
It just kicks into another gear. It's so fun. I like it. Deep cuts. yeah Yeah. Do you have any here? Well, as you probably remember, I'm a huge sucker for split diopter shots.
00:42:40
Speaker
And there's at least two of them in this movie. um One is in one of the first scenes when we're at their initial party. It's always when somebody's on the phone. Somebody's on the phone and we're able to see the characters in the background. That makes sense. Because for people who don't know, because I only recently learned when you told me, this is where you're getting that clarity of someone in the foreground, but also someone in the background at the same time.
00:43:03
Speaker
Whereas normally with just a normal lens, Whatever's in the foreground, depending how you're adjusting your focal length. Yeah, you'd have a focus of one or the other. And then the background's in blurry, whereas it's a trick that De Palma loved to use. it's It's a little insert you put into the lens that allows you to see both. But yeah, so it's a cool look. And um it happens again when Mr. Harrison is on the phone um at that party while Barb is getting drunk behind him, like feeding that kid beer. Yes. Oh, need to talk about that in a bit. yeah We will talk about
00:43:36
Speaker
But yeah, that's all I had for deep cuts. i didn't you know I wouldn't really call the Christmas songs in this deep cuts because you're expecting that. Those are super deep cuts, but not what we typically touch on.
00:43:48
Speaker
um All right. Well, then let's move to ah our Ben Gardner Jump Scare Award. What did you have? I got the initial asphyxiation of Claire um when the killer comes out of the closed closet.
00:44:02
Speaker
It's the first kill. You know, something's probably going to happen soon, but just the way it's shot, where again, you're you're looking at the point of view from the closet, essentially, as she opens the door and you see him kind of come out where, again, he's so much in the foreground, you kind of just see his hands grab her and it makes you jump.
00:44:21
Speaker
Mine is similar. It is the reveal of the plastic bag. So yeah, but the he throws the plastic bag on her, which is a jump scare. But the first time Bob Clark shows us her in the plastic bag, it's also a jump scare. Because we're just, we're we're quietly in the attic and then he like moves the camera back or she rocks into frame or something, but there's noise and boom, she's right there. But that image is really iconic. I mean, it's on the poster for a reason. It's on the movie cover for a reason. It's like very haunting and disturbing.
00:44:53
Speaker
I'd agree. Asphyxiation, an underrated method of killing and slashers that I haven't seen a ton of slashers. What about auto? What about auto erotic asphyxiation like David Carradine?
00:45:06
Speaker
Who's David Carradine? he played bill and kill bill. Oh, and he killed himself via auto, auto erotic asphyxiation.
00:45:17
Speaker
Yeah. That doesn't quite have the same effect. I do know what it is. I'm just saying, I don't know if that has the same effect in a slasher movie. If someone's also getting significant pleasure at the same time as a that's more like a hell razor type kill. Maybe pain is pleasure.
00:45:33
Speaker
Yes, exactly. Yeah, it's not something I've tried, but um I've heard i've heard it's it's it's it's quite intense. I'll take your word for it. ah Our cantaloupe award. What were you watching through the gaps in your fingers?
00:45:51
Speaker
Um, Mrs. Mack trying to find her little cat Claude while we know that there's two things in that attic, a dead body, which is scary in itself, but also an enhanced man going by the name of Billy Agnes and an unknown woman.
00:46:06
Speaker
Um, Yeah, just it's tense. that This is defenseless woman old woman is bumbling around an attic where she cannot see anything despite a flashlight like shining in her eyes or something. I don't know what's going on there. But ah I was worried for her because you know things are probably not going to end well.
Ambiguous Ending Discussion
00:46:28
Speaker
And I was a little tense. My butt cheeks were a little tense.
00:46:31
Speaker
Yeah, I like it. Mine was, again, just going back to the very last scene where it's panning from room to room. And I think it comes down to in horror movies, there's only one or two ways you can end these like ambiguous endings.
00:46:48
Speaker
And that is either you end the film with a you know, the same shot, but with a jump scare to capstone it, or you leave it where you build up all the tension and then you just go to the credits. And I think the latter is the best way to do it. I don't want a cheap scare at the very end of a film.
00:47:08
Speaker
But I do want to at least think that there might be a jump scare still coming. One more still coming. And that's what that shot does where I'm like, are we going to see him? Is going to pop out from somewhere or be in like the background suddenly? And so your your eyes are just glued to the screen and you're searching it actively, but also nervous about like what am I about to Jump out. We're also forgetting to mention one of the best parts about the ending, which is the the phone starts ringing.
00:47:34
Speaker
Yes, yes. And it rings for a while. Yeah, poetic way for it to end because someone else is in the house six except Jess. We'll talk about that more too. Oh, okay.
00:47:46
Speaker
Well, let's go to our cannon fodder award. You had already mentioned it. And I think there's only one right answer here. But it is the ah cop Jennings, who you don't know of until they reference like, hey, we got to call Jennings to let Jess know call from inside the house.
00:48:00
Speaker
Cut to... Jennings in the cop car, the patrol car right outside the house with his throat slashed. We need to discuss this as a technicality here because I think I am prone to not picking scenes like this because we don't see him get killed.
00:48:14
Speaker
But are you saying that if we just see a dead body that has been slaughtered or killed by something or someone, it counts. Because I didn't include that as an eligible. It's the same thing with Halloween. Like me and Worland didn't even think about the guy who had been killed in the pickup truck. But you were like, hey we missed a death in the beginning. so I think we should like decide if you have to see. guess I go to implied kills as well, because there's a lot of off because it gets a lot hairier.
00:48:43
Speaker
if you say you have to see the person die on screen, right? Because there's a lot of horror films where they will you know do the opposite of this, where you'll see it lead up to maybe this person about to get killed and then cut to something else. And so for including that, I think we also have to include you know the yin to the yang of where you didn't see the lead up, but you see the immediate aftermath.
00:49:06
Speaker
So if we say at a kill scene, when you hear the word, that that phrase, would you include Jennings as a kill scene? Or is that just a death that we are mentioning? It's a death.
00:49:17
Speaker
It's a death. Yeah. Okay. all right. Because ah in that case, I still picked i picked picked Mrs. Mack again. Because the first death of Claire is so important. Yeah. and Mrs. Mack is just... i have her...
00:49:34
Speaker
I had her as potentially my best death. But again, this is technical stuff that if we need to edit it out, we can. If Jennings is your cannon fodder, I have another cannon fodder, which is the young girl that we don't really see, but it's implied. See, I would take that because I think it has to be a less central character where I don't... Miss McHenry was a bit more central, I guess, to the ensemble there where just...
00:50:02
Speaker
She's one of the lines of defense of these girls and now she's dead too. I feel like cannon fodder usually needs to be purely for the sake of adding to the body count. yeah adding the body Adding to the story.
00:50:13
Speaker
Right. Right. And I think both Jennings and Janice do that. Yes. Poor Janice. I questions. all right man well I really want to get the dull knives.
00:50:24
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. We're almost there. um Best death. So it, It probably has to be the asphyxiation of Claire, right? But that's where I see you're giving Miss McHenry a shout out with the swinging crane hook. No?
00:50:38
Speaker
Neither. You want to go Barb? Oh, yeah. Really? The montage and intercutting of the singing of Come All Ye Faithful with the Agnes and Billy stuff going on with the crystal and just the penetrating of whatever that thing is. What is that, by the way? It's like a sharp statue. It's like unicorn. Yeah.
00:51:00
Speaker
I was a swan. Oh, it was a swan. You're right. And it's just, it's just kids love unicorns. It's just beautiful and weird. It's very artistic.
00:51:12
Speaker
I just love it. and And you're cutting between these like young children singing. don't know. I thought that was, that was the easy, easy award for me. I you know what best i think you're winning me over.
00:51:23
Speaker
i like that. I like that. It's the most graphic kill. yeah Yeah. Yeah. The only time you really see a lot of blood. And I took it personally because Barbara just recovered from an asthma attack and I have asthma. And I was like, man, all you want to do after you get your rescue inhaler is live. Like you're doing that so you can live. And then she just dies shortly after. I like that. Okay. Okay. um What were you going have?
00:51:50
Speaker
initial i was I was probably going to have the crane hook swing to Mr. McHenry. Oh, yeah. or I don't know. and Now I'm going back and forth. The asphyxiation of Claire pretty great as well. But i the most graphic, I think you've won me over, that that is the most graphic death you see in the film. Because the asphyxiation is great. It's iconic.
00:52:10
Speaker
But they cut away from it pretty quickly. brief. ye Yeah. Yeah. Same with Miss McHenry. You don't see it played out too long after she gets bludgeoned by the crane hook. so All right. um Shyamalan twist. I think this is an easy one, right? Yeah.
00:52:24
Speaker
Very easy. The villain was not Peter. yep The villain is who knows? He's still on the loose. Some crazy guy. Agnes Billy. Unknown. I like that too. When the killer could just be an anonymous person too often in films.
00:52:41
Speaker
Do they, this goes to my criticism of the new star Wars trilogy, right? With the, the discrepancy. Ray should have been nobody. and and Yeah. right I loved what ran Johnson did in the second film where the twist was Ray is a nobody.
00:52:55
Speaker
And J.J.' 's like, not too fast. And it just got immediately retconned J.J. in one. yeah No, she's a Skywalker bitch. she was the granddaughter of the Emperor Palpatine.
00:53:05
Speaker
Yes, but she... Sorry, spoiler to... The last line of the movie is, I'm Rey, Rey Skywalker. Well, she just takes on his last name. Either way, it's like either way it's dumb. The fact that she's... Well, no, I think her taking on his last name is great to say, like, this is who I am. I don't like... She still has to be biologically related to someone. I don't think either. I think both are bad because it's like, you can be a nobody and still be a somebody. Take her own name. You could be like, I'm Ray Jaku girl.
00:53:36
Speaker
I think we agree overall that it was silly in the retconning. Maybe a little disagree on um the last line delivery. You're just sentimental for Skywalkers, I think.
Character Motivations
00:53:47
Speaker
um Yeah, easy Shyamalan twist in this film.
00:53:50
Speaker
um This next award is going pretty easy too, dude. It's pretty overt. The don't go in there award. and Well, I'm curious. I have one, but I'm not as confident as you are. So I want you to go first so I can.
00:54:01
Speaker
ah Jess, must agree Jess, get out and don't go up there. Don't go up there. Yep. Yes. Okay, good. And then she goes up there. Yep.
00:54:13
Speaker
Jess, there's a serial killer in the home. The call is coming from the home. out of the home right away. She's like, let me just go see what's going on. Gotta see it to believe it. i ah And I don't want to step on dull knives too much yet, but it is related to her going up there.
00:54:31
Speaker
To me, it didn't it wasn't really consistent with her character. Like... I just didn't buy her. yeah She seemed to be the sharpest tool in the box, but also a good friend, right? Maybe that's the dilemma is there's any chance Phil or these other girls are still alive. She wants to go.
00:54:50
Speaker
i guess She actually still thought Barb was alive. she yeah She has to save them as well. Right. Because that's the only reason you open the door, right Because that's Barb's room. Okay. You get the call. You find out the serial killer in our fraternity house. You know Andrew Nelson and I were last upstairs.
00:55:05
Speaker
Do you try to go up to save us or just like, I'll let the police handle this? I'm going to yell and get out of the home in a timely manner. Do you guys owe me money at this point? Yeah.
00:55:17
Speaker
Do we owe you money? Is there a time where we owe money? Settled bets? I'm just thinking like practicalities here. No, of course. I would i would go up there. i I put- Well, see, there you yeah I'm not- I put myself in danger in stupid times and noble times. It's in line with her character to be a better friend than she is looking up her own self-interest. All right, well, go ahead.
00:55:39
Speaker
Yeah. I was just going to say like, do we- This one's only partially dull, but start with a softball. Do we know for a fact that Janice Quaife's death was even related to the same killer?
00:55:52
Speaker
No, we don't. like It's such an interesting plot point that the movie spends a lot of time on. Who was the search party for? Was the search party for Janice or was it for...
00:56:06
Speaker
Claire. like I don't think they needed two deaths where they haven't found the body, two missing persons that they had to explore at the beginning of the film. The film was just looking for Claire.
00:56:19
Speaker
It makes the lackadaisical, jovial nature of the police station so much weirder. You have two missing people and they're just like... Hey, I'm laughing at you. Fellatio, got you. Like they're just like jostling around. They're all just slapstick, naked guy's ass cheeks. Right, right.
00:56:40
Speaker
Exactly. What is going on here? So it was just very interesting that they had to have two missing persons cases to drive home the point of yeah there's a killer on the loose. All right. One of mine is Peter related.
00:56:53
Speaker
ah Peter goes to great pains to say how much he practices piano all the time. And that's like all he's doing and whether he's in a good mood or in a bad mood is always planned. How is he so shitty?
00:57:04
Speaker
And end during I get that his mind is rattled. But like, if you're practicing that much, I maybe you miss a key here and there. It sounded like one of your daughters just like slamming on the piano keys like but and bam boomm ba boom bam boom bam boom bam boom I'm like, this is horrible.
00:57:23
Speaker
I was just like, this guy has no muscle memory whatsoever. Sucked. yeah Didn't make sense to me. Dog shit. I do like that because they could have made it like a beautiful score, but suddenly he misses one note and that compels him to lose his sanity. Nah, he's just a shitty musician. He's just like, I can't focus. Bing, bong. He's like playing chopsticks on all ten fingers.
00:57:48
Speaker
um That's a good one. um Okay, so had one. I like Miss McHenry's death, and I like the the scary nature when she pokes her head up through the attic crawl space, but the physics of how the killer would swing a crane hook to impale her on his first shot. Like this is, this is like one in a million. Like the the killer had some serious athletic ability and luck because it's the the crane itself, it's on a rope. So it's going to swing on a plane.
00:58:20
Speaker
you can just very well miss her head entirely. And even if it hits her, it's got the hook, which is on a separate access. Yeah. Hit her at the precise point where it impales her as opposed to just like, knocking her in the head and potentially just knock her down where she falls out the attic kudos to the killer he had the uh you know he needs to buy some lottery tickets after that kill well he clearly practiced that more than peter practiced piano yeah do you think he was just up in the attic for a while he probably got some of your dad's uh one of your dad's mannequins up there hanging with the mannequins swinging the crane hook around yeah
00:58:55
Speaker
called called Jim Telerik. Yeah, it's a small one, but one I needed to call out. um Yeah, that's a good one. Okay, the at the end of the movie, Jess, you think she's dead, but she's not. So what happened to her? was she did Did the killer like...
00:59:11
Speaker
knock her out and then leave. i I don't think the killer was down there yet. I think she and Peter got in a physical altercation where she killed Peter, but she got hurt.
00:59:22
Speaker
So the cops got to the scene before the killer was even there. so he stayed in the attic. He never went to the basement. I so. I think that's the implication. but Okay, that makes more sense. That makes more sense, honestly.
00:59:33
Speaker
Going along with the end of the film, this is my biggest one. The cops find Jess. They find Peter. They think Peter's the killer. They're helping Jess. They do find some bodies.
00:59:45
Speaker
Yes. They find Barbara Phil. They find Barbara and Phil. and They even have a comment where they say, we have i think they're like saying, we have so many bodies that they we need to take them to the morgue because the hospital can't handle all them. But that's just two.
01:00:01
Speaker
I mean, I guess three, if you consider Janice. Oh, and Jennings, yes, sorry. So that's three at the scene, but not too many to I think, fill a hospital capacity. and More importantly, once they found multiple bodies there, wouldn't they do a cap complete sweep of the home and find the two bodies that are still remaining in the attic, and which is where presumably the killer is? And instead of leaving Jess there... Yes. Because they're not even sure. i mean, yeah they seem pretty sure that the killer was Peter because they're like, why would you start killing people? So they're just like, oh, the threat's gone.
01:00:35
Speaker
But they haven't done any forensics to like determine that it was actually Peter doing the killing at all. Yeah. Talk about a failure of institutions. Like you were saying, like they don't sweep the home. They don't take her hospital to get medical treatment. And then they just all leave her alone. They her there. She needs to sleep it off.
01:00:55
Speaker
Yeah, we're going to keep the phone on silent to get her some rest. We'll just have that shit ring. That's the biggest dull knife where they find what they thought was only a triple homicide in the home. Still haven't found Claire, by the way, the missing person who likely is tied up with these other killings of her sorority sisters.
01:01:11
Speaker
Don't think they search the home for her. Even pragmatism aside, I do love... There is something so haunting about seeing her still just up there. Yes. No closure.
01:01:24
Speaker
no closure for the family her father like you just feel bad for her like her body is just like just there like still frozen in panic frozen in terror is very effective it makes the movie better for that last shot when it zooms up out from the sorority house and you see her still in the attic with the bag over her head so I understand why did it but it doesn't make sense how he got there was pretty zany pretty zany That was my biggest one.
Iconic Lines from 'Black Christmas'
01:01:54
Speaker
yeah Yeah. That was actually one of mine too. Any others? I'm done. Nope. All right. Well, winners and losers. a Winner. Calls coming from inside the house. I didn't know that this film originated it. At least as far as I could tell.
01:02:10
Speaker
um so that's great. I don't know and earlier if there is one comment because I don't know another one. didn't even mention that for best lines, but the calls coming from inside house. Yeah. It's the best line of the film. I think, well, I kind of alluded to it in my highlight, but yeah.
01:02:25
Speaker
It's a great line. A winner for me is the Stand Your Ground Law. It looked like those police really respected that guy shooting at a cop in the ass for trespassing. He he wasn't getting manhandled there. They were even laughing at the cop. Yeah, it was like, hey, I don't care if you're a if you're a cop, if you're a security guard, if you're something even lower than that, like ice. Like if you're on my property, I'm going to shoot you.
01:02:55
Speaker
So stand your ground. yeah i I mean, I'm jumping ahead, but I have to say that is my big loser was all the cops at the station because one can't trace a phone call to save his life. One gets shot in the ass with that birdshot. Another doesn't know what fellatio is. like it literally was a comedy of errors over at the police station. One guy's like, eh, it's...
01:03:15
Speaker
this creepy calls are just probably your boyfriend and like just totally disregarding anything yes um another winner i had was carolers those carolers were great the fact that i could still get in the christmas spirit while a woman was getting bludgeoned to death is like pretty wild yes uh i just thought they they sounded real good yeah you touched on this but a winner was secret booze stashes miss mchenry Oh, yeah.
01:03:43
Speaker
Yeah. She had some good ones. She presumably had her own room at the sorority house, though, right? I know. Well, that's why said initially it was a dull knife. Because I think she was just trying to like, you know, sometimes when I'm on a film set, I'll like place several either snacks or phone chargers around the set so I don't have to like walk around so much, you know? I thought you were going to admit to secretly drinking on the job. Yeah, I got a few pocket shots and a flask. No, no, no.
01:04:14
Speaker
Never. Secret snacks. I like it. Secret snacks. um Hey, an old an oldie but a goodie trap. We haven't had one of these in a while, but the return of the wet basements. Yes. we had not flooded Not flooded, but it is wet.
01:04:27
Speaker
Yes. There was drippage. Until we started this pod, I did not realize how common... setting a scary scene in a home basement was like if there is a home same i think i think we're batting a thousand with there's going to be at least one scene down in the basement of that home yeah if there if there's and if there's a if it's wet that makes it even scarier and if it's flooded it's the conjuring series yeah inexplicably inexplicably like somebody needs to work on this home
01:05:00
Speaker
um All right. I had one more. i am so fascinated with the the scattered, ah incomplete story of Billy and Agnes. Like, I want to know, like, Billy left the baby alone with Agnes. The...
01:05:18
Speaker
There is something that the that your mother and I must know. like I am I'm just really intrigued by the storyline here. Like there's obviously some child is in danger. Agnes is Agnes is a threat. Billy is seems to be the child who is doing things that are wrong without him knowing. But then he kind of does know and he's guilty, but he's just a kid.
01:05:42
Speaker
the The intermittent way these people, this guy spoke, it reminded me a lot of a short film that David Lynch did called Rabbits. It's 40 minutes, so I guess you could call it a feature if you wanted to, but it's just three rabbits ah and they speak out of order. Like the things they say to each other that don't make sense. And so you're trying to piece together what actually happened.
01:06:07
Speaker
And right every time there was a phone call, I was like trying to piece together. And you know what? I never can, but that's not the point. It's just supposed to be something ah unsettling. is is it's a good For my first time watching, since it's slowly dueled out this, you know, schizophrenic killers delusions, uh,
01:06:26
Speaker
I kept thinking that maybe that would be a clue later in the film that comes back where you see a character named Agnes or Billy or something like that. And, and so did make me want to solve that mystery, but it ultimately is is un unresolved.
01:06:41
Speaker
And I would say, I think, i think he has a split personality disorder. Yeah, yeah, it might be something like straight out of the psycho. But I don't know, those are pretty quick splits.
01:06:52
Speaker
So maybe it is schizophrenia. I don't know. But either way, the he the guy would benefit from... It's a good thing he's in Canada ah to benefit from that healthcare care system rather than America. Pre-healthcare, yeah. Yeah, he he might have a chance.
01:07:04
Speaker
Long wait times, though. Maybe that's why he started killing these people. He's like, ah, take it too long. Meet with someone. God damn it, Billy. I can't handle this anymore. um okay my biggest loser we've talked about the scene a little bit or tangentially but from my understanding which is common with greek life They are hosting a charity function for underprivileged kids who get to go to a meet and greet with Santa.
Social Commentary in the Film
01:07:31
Speaker
And my big loser is these poor underprivileged kids because Santa is drunk off his ass frat guy who's cursing at them. Oh, oh fuck. um He's cursing like a sailor. yeah There's sorority girls force feeding them champagne. That is bizarre.
01:07:46
Speaker
like These poor kids. He's four kids. Some of them are probably there because of, of substance abuse issues from their parents. And then they are forced that alcohol.
01:07:59
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. I'm sure they raised some money, brother, big sister program. I'm sure they raised some money, but at what cost, Travis, what cost is it? Two steps forward for three steps backward. I don't know. Yeah.
01:08:12
Speaker
My loser was one of them, just Sergeant Nash, man. That guy was dumb, ineffective, didn't follow orders. John Saxon's character is like, just don't tell her the killer's in the house. Just get her out of there, but don't tell her that he's in there. It takes him less than 15 seconds before he just blabs. He's like, okay, listen, the killer's in the house, Chess. You got to get out of there. And like...
01:08:34
Speaker
And isn't, is it realistic for a grown man to not know what fellatio is as well? Like that's where I felt like ah that's where I started to feel bad for this guy. Cause like clearly he has a learning disability or like maybe grew up somewhere where like he just didn't get out much or maybe he's, you know, maybe he's a, uh, an incel, you know, maybe he's, he's wanted to get out there in the, in the world. Do you think he could have been the killer?
01:09:04
Speaker
No, because he calls he calls the home from the station and he's just too dumb unless he was like playing dumb like doofy and scary movie.
01:09:15
Speaker
i I was just like if I had i know it's supposed to be ambiguous and it's probably not supposed to be any character you've seen. i don't know the duration of the film, but if you had to pick one, I think you would top my list more than Peter.
01:09:27
Speaker
Yeah. You could. Peter was. It's never who you most suspect. It's always who you medium suspect. That's true. And this guy seems like he had some mental problems and is on the shit end of a bunch of things. Like he's getting blamed for stuff. He's getting ridiculed. Yeah, actually, I like that. I like that. If we had to pick one, it's probably Sergeant Nash. um Well, speaking it of.
01:09:50
Speaker
The other loser is Peter, man. That is a bad partner. Yeah. He's like, we're going to get married. You're going to have the baby. Shut the fuck up. Like, this is not how you handle problems. or Let's talk about this guy's 24-hour run here.
01:10:04
Speaker
His huge pianist concert just completely fucks it up, fails. Then his girlfriend breaks up with him. Then his girlfriend tells him she has she's carrying his baby. She's going to abort it. And then she murders him all within a span of 24 hours. Like, that's... That's a bad beat, Peter, that day. That's a losing day if I've ever heard one.
01:10:23
Speaker
yeah yeah Yeah. And and and also his his phone calls are now public record. you Don't kill the baby. Don't kill the baby. And he's going to forever be remembered by the cops. Oh, yeah. Yeah. He's going to just tarnished his legacy. Unless that killer kills her. got him. But for at least for a while, he's going to be. And some people probably believe forever that he is a killer. Yeah.
01:10:45
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, that's a way to go out. He had it he had a bad 24 hours. this is This is why it's always good. let you know Their body, their choice, Trav. this is This is what the message is. Talk about political overt messaging. That's what this movie is trying to say.
01:11:01
Speaker
yeah do you have any others? Nope. All right.
Bob Clark's Directorial Vision
01:11:05
Speaker
Scream King, Scream Queen. We're not going to say them at the same time, so I'll let you go first. um It was Bob Clark for me.
01:11:13
Speaker
I think he did it in his home country of Canada. he yeah It seemed like he had a lot of creative control. it didn't seem like a it it seemed like a singular vision, like it remained consistent. It's held up.
01:11:26
Speaker
um Yeah, I think a lot of the actors did fine. i i like the killer. i like i like Christmas in here. I almost picked Christmas as it. But I just think I think Bob Clark nailed it knocked out of the park.
01:11:38
Speaker
Yeah, i'll ah I'll jump on the bandwagon with you. ah This film has been very much reclaimed since it came out. And I think credit is due to Bob Clark for not just making something for what those current times would regard as compelling or good cinema, but actually having a vision, staying true to it. And here we are decades later saying, yeah, he he hit the nail on the head.
01:12:01
Speaker
I also think that you when you were doing production notes, you reminded me that um that he did not write the film. ah That it was, ah what did you say, Roy Moore? Roy Moore, yeah.
01:12:13
Speaker
And this is a great example of a movie where the script is fine. The script is nothing special, but the director, the director, the director's work is to, is to, uh, not just stay loyal to a script, but expand, expound upon it and make it into something beyond the page. And I feel like the way he directed this, whether it's via montage or his split diopters or the music or the way he, you know, did the POV stuff. and um None of that comes from a script. You know, that that's his ideas of how he translates the words on the page.
01:12:48
Speaker
So like the role of a director is very, this is a good example of a movie that showcases the role of a director. Yeah. All right. Bob Clark. There you have it.
Looking Forward & Audience Engagement
01:12:59
Speaker
That's it for us. Our last film we're going to cover in 2025 until I guess our spookies will cover, you know, 30 plus films all in one pod. I think across both of us will reach almost get to 40.
01:13:13
Speaker
You did more than me, but I'm going to watch a few that you haven't seen. So we might get to 40. Yeah, I think we should have about 40 horror films from this year. So um make sure to tune into that episode. We're excited for that. Follow us on things. and Yeah, follow us on the things. Subscribe on the platforms you listen That'd be you did it.
01:13:31
Speaker
Give us a rating. Sorry we took, it probably it felt like a long break, I'm sure, between our Thanksgiving episode and then Five Nights at Freddy's too. So enjoy this episode and then this one to come right after before we take another extended break for the ah holidays. oh And then we'll be back in January. if ah You can still have a chance to DM us or comment um winners or nominations for these awards. yeah Yes. you You can feel free. Reach out if you have anything we need to think about because from the time this episode releases, you'll have about 48 hours to let us know your thoughts before we record It costs you nothing but your time. um Yeah, Trav, all I have to say is ah happy holidays and ho-ho shit.
01:14:19
Speaker
Ho-ho-ho fuck. Thank you guys for listening. We'll see you next week. Bye. Bye.