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The Conjuring 2 (2016)
77 Plays17 days ago
Rick and Trav continue our Franchise Series in preparation for the release of THE CONJURING: LAST RITES (9/5/25), as we hop across the pond and investigate James Wan's THE CONJURING 2 (2016). We cover appropriate London montage music, ventriloquists, flooded basements, and litigate more case files of Ed and Lorraine Warren.
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Transcript
Voices and Revelations
00:00:00
Speaker
Do you know when the voice is gonna speak? Sometimes.
00:00:06
Speaker
Does it feel like it's coming from inside of you? More like it's coming from behind me. Like I'm being used. What does it say?
00:00:19
Speaker
It said it wants to hurt you.
00:00:23
Speaker
When did it say that?
00:00:29
Speaker
but
00:00:38
Speaker
Right now.
Conjuring Movie Discussion Begins
00:00:45
Speaker
All right. Another week. Another Conjuring movie. How are doing, Rick?
00:00:50
Speaker
Well, you know, I would say the demons in this one are meaner, but they were nicer to me because my... My wound has gotten much better and been it's not as much of a mystery anymore.
00:01:01
Speaker
Yeah. you You want to give a brief update? I like, were going to say the word brief, by the way. Brief. Yeah. We don't need 10 minutes on the infection. I got, I got some DMS.
00:01:13
Speaker
People asked to see the photos. It was a hit. Maybe we'll start releasing bonus episodes. It's just like what's going on in the life of Ricky Townsend for the for the audience following. That's really. just I want the audience know necessarily the scary movie.
00:01:26
Speaker
I want the audience to know that I typically ask Travis what's going on in his life. He gives a perfectly sweet answer, usually about his kids or work. And then he does the first pass and these he usually edits the first round and then I do the second round and then we like work together on it.
Personal Anecdotes and Podcast Editing
00:01:40
Speaker
You always take out your personal anecdotes, Travis, even when I think they're wonderfully entertaining. Exactly. i like having control over the cutting room floor. Just to briefly wrap up the leg story, the legs, the limbs.
00:01:57
Speaker
Last time we checked in, ah was going to the ER, didn't know what the heck was going on. You thought it was my bedsheets. It wasn't my bedsheets. Have you washed your bedsheets since last week? Yes, washed them that night.
00:02:09
Speaker
I promised my listeners and you that I would that. Good. No, um everybody thought I was a bug and infected bug bite and didn't know what's going on Turns out worst case of poison ivy ever of all time.
00:02:21
Speaker
of My dog and I were on a walk, Emmett, and Emmett is now like 80% deaf. And so when he goes into the wilderness or go somewhere, I can't just call for him now. I have to like actually go get him.
00:02:32
Speaker
And so he went to just like some thick brush. And I was like, come on, but I'm not used to him being deaf yet. And so i was like, come on, buddy, come on back. And then he didn't come and I got little panicky and I ran in after him. And I remember thinking this thought came and went like as quick as a fart.
00:02:46
Speaker
It was like, oh, I hope there's no poison ivy on these plants. And then I never thought about it again until, you know, a week and a half later where my limbs are melting. But anyways, they put me on steroids. I'm getting better. It still looks like a corpse on my leg, but I'm the mystery is over.
00:03:02
Speaker
And yeah, I hope we get the Patreon account going soon.
00:03:07
Speaker
Well, we'll set up again a separate feed for your your bonus apps for your health and the life and times of Ricky Townsend. And that will be subscription only. if Will you be on those? that be i'll be a mono I'll just be your sounding board. I'll be just literally like like literally asking what to do, like a teeing off question. Like, what what happened to you this week, Rick? And then you can just take it from there.
00:03:27
Speaker
right um
Podcast Success and Movie Experiences
00:03:29
Speaker
Awesome. Well, yeah, I think the only podcast related update is our weapons episode. Now we're a week and half out at the time of recording. We're over 200 listens to that. So that one's taking off.
00:03:41
Speaker
Um, you know, that's more than like our other last three episodes combined, i think at this point. And so, uh, it's exciting to see people really like that. And like, shake it or the egg did Craig make a good movie or did we make a good podcast? Exactly.
00:03:54
Speaker
Would it be hitting as high of box office numbers if our 200 people didn't listen to that podcast? There's literally no way to prove that. so I'm going to err on the side of yes. Yeah. But, um, that's exciting. And, uh,
00:04:05
Speaker
We're hoping we can continue to keep your interest with our Conjuring kind of franchise coverage as we lead up to Last Writes. Because again, highest grossing horror franchise of all time. some Someone watched it.
00:04:18
Speaker
I'm assuming some of our listeners have seen these. Although, you know we'll we'll get into it here in a minute. But I had not seen any of the sequels to the original until we started watching for this podcast. I'm having fun and I'm liking these. Yeah, this has been entertaining watching them for the first time.
00:04:29
Speaker
I think we can just jump into
The Conjuring 2: A Deeper Dive
00:04:31
Speaker
it then. So this is the Sunday scaries. I'm Travis Telerik. I'm Ricky Townsend. and My name is Bill Wilkins. I'm 72 years old.
00:04:41
Speaker
This is my home. What are you doing in my home? ah really like how he would oscillate between like very scary. Then like super sympathetic. Then just hitting this with the facts of the year he was born, that he's old, that he likes his chair. He's looking for his family.
00:04:59
Speaker
Like a man of, a man um like, he carries multitudes. He's just a poor old, crotchety old man. um Today we are covering The Conjuring 2. And yeah, we we have neither of us have seen this movie before until we got ready to cover it on the pod.
00:05:16
Speaker
It continues the tale of ed and Lorraine Warren. They bring back Patrick Wilson and Vera Farmiga. And again, it's it's cool, but also we like to... I'm sure we'll get into a bit ah separating the truth from the fictionalization here in the movie. I i just totally i just totally try to separate this point. Yeah, there's there's a lot of case files, though, that Ed and Lorraine Warren had. And so this is chronologically following some of their later cases. And notably in this film, they...
00:05:42
Speaker
They touch on and they give us an appetizer at the very start of the film, their most famous case, which was the Amityville Horror. But since that's been covered in media so many other times, they they really just opened with that. And then we moved to the main course.
00:05:56
Speaker
which is the Enfield Poltergeist out in London. So you get two cases. A real case. I have a lot to say about both of those in our production notes. But before we rush into that, what did think of The Conjuring 2, Rick?
00:06:09
Speaker
I liked it. I thought it was scarier than The Conjuring 1, honestly. I'll get into that, of why I think that, but... mainly has to do with like the the nighttime creeping around ah dark house and the dark corners i liked how expansive it was i also really liked that it leans in like it's very self-aware it may it may not be able to do anything about the poor reputation of the real warrens but it can and i think honestly tackles the nature of hoaxes and it really really in a meaningful way comments and has fun with and has you know serious engagement with the idea of like these were hoaxes like without really saying it they pretty much say that amityville horror is a hoax in this movie um they're not going to outright like i'm sure lorraine warren probably had something to say about hey don't call us liars
00:07:02
Speaker
But they're pretty upfront about that just being, I think, some bullshit. And I liked that that was part of the the the story. So it's funny. You bring up a few points. One, I did not find this scarier than the first Conjuring film.
00:07:16
Speaker
But I actually think I may like it just as much, if not more, because of some of what you're saying where I think Juan added a lot more color to the Warrens in this movie. And it's not just, I think for the first movie, I said he was much more clinical.
00:07:33
Speaker
Like it was just going from like tense moment to jump scare to tense moment to jump scare. And again, he did those very effectively. But it felt like there wasn't a lot underneath a lot of substance and here you actually get the characters being a little more fleshed out. He humanized. He got in the writing room this time. drag exactly He didn't, he didn't, he didn't pen the script or didn't have a contribution. The first one.
00:07:52
Speaker
Exactly. So yeah, I think with him being much more involved in the creative process, I'd like to attribute a lot of what I like about it for that. Although it is interesting. Well, I'm sure we'll get into plenty of scares. That's, you know, the nuts and bolts of this podcast.
00:08:07
Speaker
I did not find this one as scary. I think I know why. I think I know why. I'm going to guess that you think the first one is scarier because it, to me, paints a more realistic picture of what a possession might look like.
00:08:17
Speaker
You are a believer. i am not. And so I don't really find demonic. I don't know if I'm a believer, but
Believers vs Skeptics: The Scare Factor
00:08:24
Speaker
you're not. I thought you were Christian. Yeah. I mean, Yeah, I am. I am religious. I'm a Christian that I don't think necessarily always needs to get shoehorned in with. do you think there's real people being possessed and fair and exorcisms? Yeah, that's fair. Then then my then this take that's not hold water.
00:08:41
Speaker
My take is going to be that I find that religious people find the exorcist and conjuring movies really scary because it's just something that actually could happen. That's something that Benny talked about last pod. Yeah.
00:08:52
Speaker
But in this case, what I found scary was like just the idea of the unknown in the corners of the room and like I just remember being a kid kind of like watching Skinnerink like creeping around the house it's dark and your imagination is running wild and like that tapped into something kind of animalistic I mean I yeah that's interesting well we'll have to talk about more I just don't necessarily find and you brought this up right when did my impression but Bill bill Wilkins not that scary in fact it's almost an antagonist you take a little pity on um i know there's other you know scarers in that i don't want to go too much into it till we get to spoiling a lot of things for the few people who haven't seen this movie but are listening to this podcast but didn't find him as scary also i i but again thought it was looming threat the looming threat of him was scary yeah when he finally did show up it was like
00:09:45
Speaker
He either looked like an old man or he looked like Bathsheba who plays him again, just like he played the woman in the other movie. Bashara? No. So I don't know. It's a good point. So Bashara is the composer again. He comes back and he gets a acting credit as the demon.
00:10:01
Speaker
I'm not certain who the demon I think I know what it is. phrase Because Bob Adrian plays Bill Wilkins and there's a separate woman who plays the nun. Bonnie Arams. maybe he was the crooked man or someone No, I think i I just figured it out.
00:10:14
Speaker
There's moments where Bill's face literally turns into the demon face from the conjuring one pretty much. And I think that's who it remember. Like how yeah when he takes her and she's in the closet and like, you see his yellow eyed face.
00:10:27
Speaker
Yeah. But that was like the same actor with just some effects. You think that was Shara? Yeah. I'm not certain, but, um think mashara but anyways, to the point on Bill Wilkins, you know, he's just, I take more pity on him. He's like a crotch, the old man, he's yelling.
00:10:40
Speaker
when the like boys playing with his fire truck, going into the tent, he's changing the TV channel constantly to like what he wants to watch. He's always in that like a rocking chair repeatedly just saying like, this is my house. Like that's not necessarily going to conjure that scary of imagery in my head or make me on the edge of my seat, but focusing on the positive. Like I really like in this movie, it does explore like the view of is this real or are they faking There are skeptics there. And I, I like that balance because then they're given, they're given a legit voice.
00:11:14
Speaker
Yeah. And it becomes a lot more intriguing film.
Character Depth and Sentimental Scenes
00:11:16
Speaker
Okay. I think I said for the first one, you kind of know where you're going the whole time you're on this single set of tracks and you know, I'm just going from scare to scare till we get to some climatic possession. And this one, you're not entirely sure like what is going on here or the, is the family faking it who that, you know, there's multiple paranormal investigators. There's a skeptic there on scene who's going to make some convincing points or actually help this family versus just like scoring intellectual points there.
00:11:46
Speaker
So I liked it for that reason. And, you know, that on the more humanizing front, like they there's montage scenes in this. There's a lot more musical numbers. There's a lot more sentimental pieces within it where I didn't see that as much in the first Conjuring film.
00:12:00
Speaker
was the Was the monster just the poverty we met along the way? Is that the real monster? just like I know this poor, this poor family. was like Can we not the attic? That basement was, that was yeah probably the most unbelievable part of the movie I've ever seen. As a real estate guy, Travis, can you, can you tell us how unlikely it is that it's like an ocean in the basement? Just like, oh yeah, this is here. I got a lot to talk about. that later. Good basement talk, like barbarian.
00:12:26
Speaker
So I really liked it. I think we're both in agreement. I think it is one of the sequels, one of the direct sequels as well, that a lot of people consider maybe better than the original, which is always cool to see when there's a follow-up film. i don't know yet I don't know much discourse about the film. So I'm just going up. You probably forgot, but a few months ago, you and I, outside the horror podcast, was trying to make we were trying to make a list of sequels that are considered better than the original. And this is one that I saw you know on Reddit, on Letterboxd, on a lot of these movie forums.
00:12:53
Speaker
A lot of people stating that I... they They enjoy the film more than the first. It's not as important. I mean, the first one I think is you'll see listed on in the pantheon. Oh, yes. Yes. But maybe more enjoyable by a lot of fans.
00:13:05
Speaker
Yeah. And maybe just a better movie. I guess that goes hand in hand with enjoyable. But anyways, do you have the plot synopsis? We should probably say what this movie is about. Ed and Lorraine Warren traveled to North London to help a single mother raising four children alone in a house plagued by a supernatural spirit.
00:13:23
Speaker
And then I'll just add, like you said earlier, Travis, this is the famous Eddington poltergeist, which has been covered extensively, which to tell us a bit more about in the production notes. Yeah, the Enfield poltergeist.
00:13:34
Speaker
What did I say? Eddington? Eddington. Great film. Great film. Nothing to do with this movie. This was not my best viewing. Like, I think, you know, not to get TMI, but like going through the medical stuff. And then my best friend and his wife and their family, ah who I'm house-sitting for, they came home earlier than anticipated. So I have kind of been all over the place, getting the place ready. And then now they're here. And so I'm tucked away watching an R-rated Conjuring two movies. So my four-year-old goddaughter isn't like, what is this?
00:14:01
Speaker
So I'm like, do you feel like a kid again where you kind of have to like slink off to watch an R-rated film and they can't know about it I mean, with the slink off and watch R-rated film and then have an R-rated conversation with you. yes I'm like a teenager again.
00:14:15
Speaker
um Yeah. yeah Yes. This was one again, we didn't get the theater experience. it was just streamed by myself. Scary enough. Again, Juan delivers on making scary movies, even though i think it's less scary than the last, like there were times I still jump. Christmas movie.
00:14:31
Speaker
Yeah. And a Christmas movie, a good horror Christmas film. There's a handful of horror Christmas films, um but this is a good one to enter. Black Christmas is the ghost. Yeah, Black Christmas, probably most notable.
00:14:44
Speaker
You have Krampus. I really like that. I need to see Krampus. Somewhat satirical, scary movie. Silent Night, Deadly Night. Silent Night, Deadly Night. You have Terrifier 3, their most recent sequel Christmas theme, so.
00:14:56
Speaker
A lot of good. cry Oh, and Nightmare Before Christmas, of course, which is both a Halloween and a Christmas movie. Quick plug. ah We don't want to say too much, but our Halloween is going to be fun this year. Our our very first Sunday scaries Halloween edition the whole month of October. We got some special stuff lined up for y'all. Can we tease one thing we're doing, Trav?
00:15:15
Speaker
Yeah. Well, if you start teasing it, it's a lot of snow. Trav will be conducting an interview with his oldest daughter. um, ah outside of the pod and then you'll, you'll bring it into the pod just to have some level of control. like Yeah. okay I'm just gonna have to screen it. So we'll see if you guys actually see the final cut, like Rick was saying earlier, I'm very selective, but, um, my girls love Nightmare Before Christmas. And so,
00:15:37
Speaker
and watch it with them and see if they wanna share their thoughts. I think we'll have to do our first like non-explicit episode, a family friendly horror movie our peace podcast episode. We'll get our fucks out of the way right now. Thank you.
00:15:51
Speaker
Anyways, let's talk. Okay, let's talk production notes for this movie. I think there's a lot of really interesting tidbits here.
Franchise Success and Directorial Choices
00:15:59
Speaker
I think the first is, again, we've mentioned with the Conjuring franchise, this is the highest grossing horror franchise of all time. Have we said that before? i don't know if we've said that before.
00:16:08
Speaker
In the second film, the second film did not disappoint domestically. I did over a hundred million dollars still. I think it was that one or two, one or three. and The first one do one 30, like one 30. Yeah. So it was a slight dip. It's still pretty good for a followup sequel.
00:16:21
Speaker
And then worldwide, we're talking like 330 million. a lot of people still went to go see this film. Interestingly enough, though, yeah, and really good reviews. Interestingly enough, it is not the second, the highest grossing film in the franchise is still the original Conjuring.
00:16:37
Speaker
The second highest grossing is actually the nun, which takes a character from this film, The Conjuring 2, and then gives her her own spinoff series. Yep. And this would be number three for the highest domestic box office for the franchise.
00:16:50
Speaker
So James Wan comes out with a hit and saw, then he's down for a bit. And then this is kind of his, uh, Renaissance already really comes back into even more prominence because in the same year he releases the original conjuring movie and then insidious.
00:17:04
Speaker
And so this is his followup to it. Prior to this, he directed fast and furious seven. And so reportedly they actually, um, the production studio wanted him to direct Fate of the Furious, which is the eighth Fast and Furious movie that that came right after Fast and Furious 7, offered him a ton of money and he turned it down to make The Conjuring 2. So he was like, nope, I'm going with my own production studio that I'm starting.
00:17:28
Speaker
I'm going to write this. I'm going to direct this. I'm going make a second Conjuring film, which I think is pretty cool. Especially because I like the fra the Fast and the Furious movies, but they're not everything to me.
00:17:40
Speaker
Like Wiz Khalifa said, see you again. well he didn't see Furious franchise again. He just went off in the distance like Paul Walker. Yeah. So again, that was fast and furious seven, which was James Wan, which is not a good movie. If I'm being honest, my god it suddenly at the end, you put in probably the most touching tribute ever to a film star with a send off they have for Paul Walker. So I was not entertained until the very end to the point I was always in tears. And suddenly it was just a one 80 where I was like, Oh my God, this is incredibly moving.
Amityville and Enfield Cases
00:18:09
Speaker
One of the only times where I'm going to defend the use of AI, you know, Like what was the AI in that film? Paul Walker. Oh yes. Yeah. i I think we use AI for everything. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. but i sorry We're, we are in a film club outside of this and we did a little furious.
00:18:27
Speaker
Yeah. We've watched a lot of fast and furious movies. So yeah, we mentioned he wrote and directed this one. Um, Let's talk bit about the Warrens a bit more. So where we left off last episode, I think we're pretty clear where, um again, there's a few degrees of the truth here, right?
00:18:44
Speaker
There is what is in the film and they're clear what this is a fictionalization. Obviously, films that are always depicting some form of based on true events are are going to take a few liberties.
00:18:55
Speaker
Then there's what the films are supposedly based on, which are the Warrens case files. But again, this is from their perspective. And the Warrens were heavily involved and their state was heavily involved in the production of these films. So there's this nun thing that you don't see about anywhere else on the internet.
00:19:11
Speaker
They're saying that she kept seeing this nun? Is that like, no that was a creative Liberty. I think that one took in this film, the nun was not in their case files had nothing to do with any of these hauntings, but then turns into a successful horror franchise for them. Yep.
00:19:24
Speaker
So that's, yeah. So that's a good example of a difference between even the Warrens weren't talking about a nun or anything in their case files. Then you go from, know, so that's one degree of separation. Then the last degree of separation, which is important is, you know, where a few decades later,
00:19:38
Speaker
A lot of the Warren's case files have been pretty soundly refuted, as well as the Warren's overall personas, I think, have been so much disparaged because they were ah bit of grifters that we were mentioning on the last episode and potentially Ed Warren was a predator to young children. And so, I listen to the pod again, and I should probably say like, I, so I use some pretty harsh words and I stand by them, but from a journalistic perspective, I said some things as fact that are still just allegations. Allegedly is always important to preface. Yeah. I should probably use allegedly more often.
00:20:11
Speaker
i I'm going to go out and and and say that me personally, I believe those things happened, but I can't on record say that they did with, without, you know, you're knocking me for my beliefs and things I don't know to be true.
00:20:24
Speaker
And now you're just saying, but I'm going to go on the air and just say whatever I feel about Ed Warren, because that is my truth. That is my truth. That's great. um So yeah, so two cases featured in this film. I love, again, that they start with Amityville horror, but yeah start with they only give us a few minutes of it. Because this is their most- Some of the best parts of the movie.
00:20:42
Speaker
Yes, and I love that. And I love because they get right into it. But also knowing that Amityville Horror has been remade in the films. you know You don't need it. Late 70s, it's been remade again in like the two thousand and ten s And so that is such a familiar case file where they didn't want to make that the crux of this film, but at least lead in with it. Cause again, chronologically that happened in 1977, I believe.
00:21:05
Speaker
The shit happened in 74. Okay. The book, the book was written in 77. movie came out in 79. Got it. Got it. Okay. So perfect. So this was mid seventies, just a few years after our last haunting with the parents.
00:21:17
Speaker
Um, The Warrens are really tied up in this. So, so yeah, talking about the, the actual facts are, as we understand today from the Amityville haunting. So in this home in Amityville, which is in New York, um, long Island, um, Ronald DeFeo kills six of his family members one night, his parents and his siblings.
00:21:39
Speaker
He is then arrested. He he lives. He is going to trial for murder. And subsequently to that, a new family moves into the home, the Lutz family, who, as you can imagine, got a pretty killer deal. It sounded like on buying this home with, what is that a sex tuppple homicide um that it, had just occurred in it.
00:21:57
Speaker
And so what they originally alleged as haunting events because of maybe a demon who had possessed Ronald DeFeo and then led to you know, now haunting the Lutz family. Naturally. I was later boiled down to, the Fayo, the murderer pleaded insanity. And it came out that his attorney essentially approached the Lutz family and to better substantiate their plea of insanity.
00:22:25
Speaker
told them essentially like, Hey, there's a lot of money to be made here. If the home is haunted. And so the lawyer was indicated, and this is before son of Sam law as well, son of Sam law, which is where as a criminal, you can not profit from your actions. oh So even Ronald DeFeo was getting a cut. and Exactly. Even Ronald DeFeo was going to cut by like playing into like the devil made me do it.
00:22:49
Speaker
The attorney was going for that to get his client off the hook and the Lutz family was partially in on it. but did Did Jeffrey Dahmer make the cutoff on that or was he like cleaning up before Son of Sam law? I don't know. Dahmer did some real bad shit between 78 and 91.
00:23:00
Speaker
damer did some some real bad shit between seventy eight and ninety one Son of Sam ninety ninety seven was 1997, was enacted. He was imprisoned in 91. So had he had a six year stretch where he could be like selling a few copies. Maybe making a little bit of bank. Yeah.
00:23:16
Speaker
So anyways. he met But he missed out on the big run on true crime stuff in like the two thousand and ten So, so this haunting has been largely refuted, but working with the Lutz family, when they were investigating this haunting were the Warrens. And so while ultimately at the end of the day, a lot of this was refuted, the Warrens made a lot of money. Again, this was their most famous case of the subsequent book rights, movie rights, and i don't think it was until at least a decade or two later where a lot of this started to get disproved. And so this is a case that is, it makes for great cinema, and it was terrifying because just, I mean, you know, stripping down, like someone who murders six of their family members,
00:23:58
Speaker
it is such a horrific deed that you would like to believe like no rational human could do this. Maybe he was possessed by the devil. And so there, there was some basis there where I think almost wishful thinking.
00:24:10
Speaker
But, but I don't think that was the case. So that's Amityville. um And that's what the movie opens with. I know. did Did the Warrens maintain their belief that he was possessed their whole lives? Like, did they ever say, yeah, you know what? It's kind of hoaxy.
00:24:25
Speaker
I don't think there's a lot on the record coming out. It wouldn't them financially, so I don't think they would. And I think, you know, sometimes maybe to their credit, but they were deeply religious individuals. So I think they were drinking a lot of their own Kool-Aid, believing.
00:24:43
Speaker
and that's why I actually like this movie and Juan's interpretation of it, because sometimes, you know, you see... what could be contradictory evidence, but you say, oh, well, well, maybe that was intentional. Maybe the demons trying to make us like throw us off the set and throw this contradictory evidence in there. So we don't actually discover its true purpose and stop it. And so I think they had a bit of that in real life.
00:25:04
Speaker
So that was the Amityville. I love the opening of this movie. I know you you love it even more. Yeah, i I thought that was i thought it was so unsettling and really unique. you know i think in a straightforward opening scene and you're having your protagonist shoot, you know it's Vera Farmiga shooting these people. yeah She's like she's like kind of reliving the experience through the perspective of DeFeo. Exactly.
00:25:29
Speaker
But I just love how she doesn't she's pantomiming a gun So there's that's a weird part. There's recoil and then it's not a full you see the bullet enter. There's an exit wound.
00:25:43
Speaker
It all of a sudden just appears. It's just like ah it's like a it's a smash cut. It's a it's a jarring cut to like there's a wound and then their bodies move a bit. It was just really it just it reminded me of like an old I don't know old video games like ah early cut scenes like from Max Payne when like there's something delirious going on and I don't know, I just I just thought it was fucked up and cool and obviously it's horrible, but it really gets you in the mindset of these like dark corners that we're about to go explore. And yeah, what a cool way to take a story that's been retold a bazillion times and in about five minutes encapsulate the most unsettling part of it that a man killed his kids and his family.
00:26:24
Speaker
and they don't shy away from showing it, but the way they show it is really interesting. Yeah. Different. Well, again, in the first conjuring film, they talk about Lorraine Warren played
Lorraine Warren's Visions and 70s London
00:26:32
Speaker
by Vera Farmiga. Like, you know, she loses a little bit of herself every time she's involved in a case, like there is a physical toll.
00:26:39
Speaker
And this time instead of telling that again, they show it from the get go. Cause she is reliving this experience as well, which I think is really cool. Cause she's almost like forced along for the ride. And so, like you said, it's horrific, but it's also a cool perspective to see her, like you said, miming the,
00:26:52
Speaker
the gunshots of these family members almost as if she has no choice, but to relive all the actions that the video committed. So anyways, that's Amityville. Then we get into the Enfield poltergeist. Um, so they're called in, they're called guys in London. Um, so this is later in the seventies. I think this was 79.
00:27:11
Speaker
seventy nine If I have my dates, correct. Um, I couldn't tell it was London by the song choice. Yeah. Yeah, I know you mentioned you don't love the London calling montage. i I like the montage. I agree. Maybe they chose a tacky song here, but there is a bazillion other songs that can convey where you are. It's it's it's England in the 70s. Like, yeah, what are we doing?
00:27:36
Speaker
The class? That's like the mo that's like a gap commercial. It's like, hey, we're in London, London calling. Maybe silly I'm probably sounding like the simpleton on the pod, well but I love it. Not me.
00:27:48
Speaker
I love good pacing in horror movies. And I think, again, the original conjuring was all gas, no breaks with the scares. So I like getting the montage and like that's now they're in another country. And now we're going to have a lot of B-roll. I'm not arguing against the montage. It's just the most song choice.
00:28:03
Speaker
cliche you're seeing like you have any recommended what is a good 70s british song the one that they this is my theory um i think i'm really want to hope that james juan wasn't pushing to put london calling in when you see big ben and the trolley and the four-decker whatever I'm hoping that that was a studio choice that he didn't have enough, you know, leverage yet to say no to.
00:28:29
Speaker
Because very shortly after there, he picks a great song that is very reminiscent of ah the zombie, you know, the zombies time of the season opening in in The Conjuring One. He uses Bus Stop by the Hollies.
00:28:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:48
Speaker
I like the music in this movie. I agree. London Calling is probably the most cliche. I think I would have liked all the musical numbers. Just do Bust Off. Do Bust Off of the Hollies and get get rid of London Calling. The Clash is awesome, but I don't even think The Clash likes that song anymore.
00:29:00
Speaker
I know you critiqued the first film because you're like, I completely forgot this was set of the 70s. It didn't seem like a good period piece. I thought they did a better job in this one, in Conjuring 2. Agreed. This had, that I think The Conjuring 1 might have had a even though I think Conjuring 2 is a scary movie, I think There's a scarier tone in the first one, but this one has a much more English rainy poor dark tone than the like they they really stick you in this blue muck and mire that you can't get like a bog.
00:29:32
Speaker
Are there bogs in the US or bogs unique to England? like do Or do we just call it a swamp in the US? Like, is that what happens? i think it's I think a bog can only be in England. I'm not gonna lie with you. i don't I don't really know what a bog is, but I know- I think it's just like a swamp, right? This movie is very boggy. Their basement's very boggy.
00:29:53
Speaker
Yes. Yes. Like we've teased a few times. We'll get there, Rick. Don't worry. case Patient, be patient. um one of the Yeah. things So the Enfield poltergeist, I didn't know much about this until we watched this film. and And so I was researching it. I also did, you know, some background on the Warrens before we started this franchise series.
Eyewitness Accounts and Skepticism
00:30:11
Speaker
It is pretty captivating because it was a very well-documented case. So there's multiple researchers, both ah paranormal researchers, skeptics, critics, with a lot of case files, um a lot of notes on this. And this one is, there are some points that you can tell may have been faked or slightly. No, there were some proven faked.
00:30:34
Speaker
Yeah, there was some exactly there was some proof of certain elements being faked from this Or exaggerated. or exaggerated. But there's a lot of question marks still left, especially with the number of eyewitnesses and audio tapes and photos where this is one of the only paranormal events of the last few decades that was Super Bowl documented where it hasn't been...
00:30:56
Speaker
very soundly refuted. Right. So there is a, still a lot of discussion or is, is this real? Like, did this actually happen? One word to two syllables fish wire.
00:31:08
Speaker
Oh, you think that's what they're using to move things around? Yes. I don't know. I wasn't there. I mean, I've seen that. Cause I did, you did more research than me, but the cops, i know they are on record being like, we don't know how that chair slid.
00:31:22
Speaker
and I'm like, well, I saw behind the scenes of Poltergeist and all you have to do is tie some fishing wire yeah to the thing and you pull it. And so if it's as boggy as the movie made it sound to me, I don't think, I think you could hide that.
00:31:36
Speaker
What, what are some things that, what are some, not refute? Cause I am a skeptic with all this stuff. Like, so what are some things that are under? there's tapes of the daughter whose voice would go to this of Bill Wilkins and it would change tone. i they play the and of the movie And exactly. They play the real tape.
00:31:52
Speaker
And she could do it without moving her lips or she could do it with water in her mouth. And so a lot of skeptics have said, well, maybe she was young, but maybe she's like an aspiring ventriloquist and maintain ventriloquist. She could have, yes, but that is, yeah, that's a bizarre rationale for like, how is that possible? so I totally see like how, how do you want to use this newfound skillset as a ventriloquist? I don't know. I'm going to pretend to be a demon when I'm eight years old and to cash in. And then there's photos of them like floating and levitating back to the ventriloquist thing really fast.
00:32:23
Speaker
Let's talk more about ventriloquist. um There's, Well, less about ventriloquism in general. This is more of a question about, about is there a market for, was there a market for ventriloquists in the seventies in England?
00:32:36
Speaker
Like were people actually going to see these shows? Secondly, did this family end up getting out of poverty because of all this stuff? They are shown as so poor in this movie.
00:32:47
Speaker
Peggy Hodgson, the mom lived in that home for the rest of her life. and Oh yeah. They say that. And then she died in the yeah the chair. Yeah. Yeah. yeah I would crush so many movies in that chair. The leather chair at the end. no the at the end of the movie. Oh, leather chair.
00:33:01
Speaker
yeah, should. It looks so fucking comfortable. It's good point. It's a good chair. Shout to the chair. Shout out the chair. I don't think they made a lot of money. If this was a hoax for money, it was a pretty small amount.
00:33:11
Speaker
but Okay. Then my second um my second question is, if you are a good if you have the skill set to be ventriloquist, is this the avenue you're taking to get your grassroots career off the ground? Yeah.
00:33:24
Speaker
Well, I mean, she was pretty damn good if she was one because it still has a lot of people fooled. So um I don't think she again, and maybe there's a point in favor of maybe there was something really that happened.
00:33:35
Speaker
You know, she could have gone on and been a professional ventriloquist. I wonder if she was a crowd work. Yeah. She could like, Hey, where are you guys? Where are you guys coming from tonight? paul's attention You guys married? You guys couple?
00:33:46
Speaker
No, I don't think they are. They don't. The body language isn't good. oh stop that. Don't be rude. i mean, again, going back to Bill Wilkins, the person whose voice she was using, i mean, he was just a crotch deal man. And that's, that's kind of funny. your job better It's like a bit.
00:34:00
Speaker
Thank you. um So there's that there's the photos of them levitating, which this one could maybe be more easily disproved because they're just like, oh, they were jumping, and catching a frame while they're jumping up the air. Yes. Are you referring to the photo at the end when they show her like in the air?
00:34:15
Speaker
I haven't seen, I thought there was multiple photos. and know there's one end of the film. there only one? She's jumping. She's jumping. So, okay. So that's a new, and again, I acknowledge at the top of this, some of these are more easily disproven than others, but there's those two. And then the last part is usually the more eyewitnesses that are involved in something, the more elaborate would be to perpetuate this as a hoax. And there are a lot of eyewitnesses, like you said, including police officers who came over the home, including neighbors. And so this was not,
00:34:43
Speaker
just the family themselves saying scary stuff happens only when we're here and no one else can see it but multiple other individuals coming over um marise gross who was like again portrayed in the film he was an investigator who was witnessing this as well as as well as other investigators and so like You get to certain of magnitude, you know, going back to like Me Too movement.
00:35:05
Speaker
If one girl accuses a guy of something inappropriate sexually, it should definitely be investigated. But you want to give them, you know, fair trial, the accused.
00:35:16
Speaker
If there's a dozen or a couple dozen masseuses accusing Deshaun Watson of, hey, this guy was getting pretty handsy in the massage room, that was a pretty quick one to jump to judgment on. Yeah, this this dude is not a good dude. There is something wrong here. so i just want to make sure Travis is equating...
00:35:31
Speaker
The Me Too movement and the veracity of those. Well, I believe the woman is what I'm saying. Ultimately, at the end of the day, i still can't get loose human based on this i still can't get over that you say woman. I listened to the other our podcast the other day where you. we Sorry, pronounced it correctly.
00:35:45
Speaker
i who Who taught you to say it that way? it is It's women. Women. i I don't know what other words the O makes the a sound in the middle of it. The English language is a fickle thing.
00:35:59
Speaker
yeah who Like, do you where did you first learn? Like, do you do you recognize that you say it differently than most people? I don't think so. I think you need to take turn the mirror on yourself, man.
00:36:10
Speaker
Who's who is saying we're talking about skeptics and non-believers or people who maybe elaborate and think of the world through a different lens that is far from reality. And I think the unreality is people who think, oh, makes the sound. I didn't say that. Oh, makes that sound. I think it's a it's a exception to the rule.
00:36:27
Speaker
I think that is like how Donald Trump speaks, like these women and binders of women. or was that yeah frommney Uh, well, okay. Please reach out. If let's do, are you team women or team women? We are, we love women regardless of whether, how you say it, that's not what this poll is about. This isn't too flattering, especially when you interrupt me to be like, what you believe those women accusing Deshaun Watson, which I do.
00:36:48
Speaker
And again, because the sheer magnitude of them, it's easier for me to stop. I understand. And similarly with the Enfield poltergeist, the sheer magnitude of eyewitnesses, it could be elaborate hoax, but the more people you add who say, yes, I witnessed that as well. I was there go on the record.
00:37:03
Speaker
It adds some credibility. So at the end of the day, very well could be a hoax. It's just a more interesting one. Unlike Amityville, which is thing again, has been soundly refuted like,
00:37:14
Speaker
There is still a lot of believers in the Enfield poltergeist. So a lot of regular written and records, a lot of people investigating this, which is why it's so interesting to look at what was the Warren's actual involvement in real life in this case.
00:37:28
Speaker
So there was two, two actual investigators, paranormal investigators there and Maurice Gross and Guy Lyon Playfair. I, the Warren's came out uninvited. The Vatican, the church to invite them, the family to invite them.
00:37:40
Speaker
But this was near the late 70s. And now they're gathering quite a bit of fame and profiting from it. So they go out to check out what this is all about. I think Playfair is on the record, right? Or was it an author getting getting his quote for what he said? there the author, Brian Dunning, who writes about the supernatural and sci-fi and ghosts and stuff.
00:38:01
Speaker
He said in his one of his books, he says, Ed Warren tried to persuade Playfair that money could be made from this case by writing books and selling movie rights. And then the Warrens left. yeah Like he said, they weren't there very long at all. It sounds like they were there for 24 hours or maybe less. So the film goes to great creative liberties to show them as the central protagonist and and helping in this case, where in real life, it was really Maurice Gross, who again is in the film.
00:38:24
Speaker
Our Warrens would never do that. I believe our Warrens. So, yeah, I mean, and that's okay, again, because I like i like Patrick Wilson. I like Vera Farmiga, and I think this film is made much better by involving them in this case.
00:38:38
Speaker
I think, again, if they would have just used Amityville as the sequel, it wouldn't have hit as well to flesh that into feature-length film. And I'm not as well-versed in their later cases, but we'll get to those with our next Conjuring film. Last episode, you said in real cases, there's actual deaths.
00:38:55
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Well, there's no deaths in this one. So you referring to other ones? Yep. Yep. Still coming. Okay. Still coming. So somewhat wait I don't want to get too far along and the pod without mentioning her name, but I thought Madison Wolf as Janet was unreal in this. yeah I was,
00:39:13
Speaker
so touched by her humanity, her fear, her bravery. ah There's nothing contrived and there's nothing like forced with her performance. And it only gets better throughout the film. I didn't really notice her at first. She's like this little mousy girl. I thought she was, I wasn't following. I was on on lot of medication. I thought she was like the Warren's daughter at first. I didn't understand we were in England, even though the London calling thing was a tough watch initially.
00:39:38
Speaker
But once she started to come into her own and grappling with these things, um whether it's a side career as a ventriloquist or as a girl haunted by a demon. i just, I was enraptured by her performance. I would watch this movie again just to focus on her performance. That's how much I liked it.
00:39:54
Speaker
Yeah, I completely agree. I think it's really hard to flip the switch like she does from the victim to all of a sudden being possessed and being the demon and being the
Notable Performances in The Conjuring 2
00:40:03
Speaker
aggressor. And I think she did that really well. well And then when she would snap back to herself,
00:40:08
Speaker
being disoriented or taking pity on her. It made it a lot more believable. And if that's not done well, this film doesn't work. What you just said, I think it's her best moments too. It's she's good when she's a being a normal kid.
00:40:18
Speaker
She's really good when she's a full fledged demon. It's the the middle point of that, that oscillation that I thought she was most effective. Like she was just kind of disoriented and like, but still trying to think through this and like make sense of it all. Like that middle ground, she's so good at um And I, I guess we'll talk more about it and highlight some other scenes that she was in that I really liked. I just thought, I thought she was great. Maybe, maybe now a good time to go through some of the other cast members or do you other stuff about? edit Yeah. I mean, so we, we've talked a bit about Patrick Wilson and Vera Farmiga. So they're obviously back. We have the whole Hodgson family cast here. So you mentioned probably the lead out of them, Janet Hodgson played by Madison Wolfe.
00:40:59
Speaker
You have Francis O'Connor playing Peggy Hodgson, and she's been in a few other films. What do you have top of mind for her? Oh, just artificial intelligence. Spielberg's movie that you and I watched recently, who is so good.
00:41:14
Speaker
In both cases, she's like a tormented mother and but it's they're both very different performances. In one, she's a pretty comfortable person like she's she's living well, right? think she's into a woman of means and this one she's not. But in both cases, that desperation shines through.
00:41:30
Speaker
Like regardless of what's in the bank account, she is, she is just, she's torn to pieces and just like, you can just tell the toll of motherhood and what's going wrong with her. yeah Both films. She has a child who she loves, but is also somewhat scared by too. Correct.
00:41:48
Speaker
Whether they're a robotic or possessed. That's a good one. um i mean the rest of the hodgson family i don't recognize many of these names but we have lauren esposito playing the sister margaret benjamin high playing billy hodgson patrick mccauley playing johnny hodgson i do like so simon mcburney plays um marie's gross and he was in uh he was just in nosferatu last year as aaron knock and i thought he was really good at that kind of like the renfield character and he's he's very zany in this film he gets a lot more screen time and conjuring too especially that mustache which i thought was a joke, but the real Maurice Gross did have a waxed mustache that, you know, curls looks like a 1920s villain type of mustache. Yeah.
00:42:28
Speaker
He surprised me because I thought he was going to be your typical cash grab, um like trying, trying to capitalize on this and kind of a showman. And then he does, he just opens his heart and he's like, no my daughter died in a car crash. And I'd like to believe that she's somewhere another world and not wait, another world's bad. Right.
00:42:48
Speaker
I don't know what another world is. It makes me think of Stranger Things, like the ah upside down. I don't know. but The afterlife, I think, is what you're looking for. Yes. So just a sweet character.
00:42:59
Speaker
like He's just kind of a quirky little dude. he he and um He and our girl, Madison Wolf, could maybe like be a traveling duo ventriloquists and then just like a Mark Twain-esque humorist talking about life. looks like he should be a ventriloquist, right? When I picture a ventriloquist, I picture the character he's playing. as mar who is it what it What character in media do you think of immediately when you think of ventriloquist?
00:43:24
Speaker
In media? Like just what is the what's the image you think of? Is there one that comes to mind? It's all the ventriloquism. tra What do you think about it? What what image? No, but I'm curious. Goosebumps for me. Goosebumps. that's scary ventriloquist. Yes. Okay. I like that. I like that.
00:43:41
Speaker
Who's the comedian? Jeff Dunham. King of the mid 2000s. Him and Dane Cook were just cleaning up the comedy scene. That's what I thought you were going for. I was like, yeah, mean he's a good ventriloquist. Not my style of comedy. he had I think he had some bits that might not fly so well. Like, wasn't one of his like a terrorist? I knew you were going to go with that one right away. this was Interesting, like post 9-11 angst maybe.
00:44:04
Speaker
um Anyways, okay. let's ah Anything else about the cast before we move into awards? No, I feel good about covering cast. Wait, it's a scare him c meter, right? Scare-ometer. Scare-ometer.
00:44:16
Speaker
and Woman. Oh, makes the O sound. Woman, women, scare-ometer. You'd probably carry call it, yeah, scare-ometer. Is that how you pronounce it? Scare-meter. Scare-meter.
00:44:29
Speaker
ah We'll probably had different scores since I think I thought this was scarier than you did. i had edited it. I had it eight. I had it higher than the conjuring. have it as our second scariest. Wow. So again, the rings nine.
00:44:41
Speaker
Didn't we give conjuring an eight? I thought we were at an eight. So you also gave this an eight. Same category, just a little scarier. I gave this a six. I think this is our biggest difference. So brave, Trev.
00:44:52
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, I'm not, I'm not that brave. I just found, thanks for setting the record straight. I'm getting to full spoiler territory here. There's a few different scares. I did not find the crooked man scary really whatsoever. It was very predictable when he was going to come out.
00:45:08
Speaker
You'd hear the song coming. um I didn't find Bill Wilkins that scary. I, again, I felt pity on him. There's some jump scares, but they,
00:45:18
Speaker
I know the, you know, you have to have him in the movie. because that's what the real and Phil poltergeist is based on. And then they add in which there was no context for, but they thought it'd make better in the movie. The nun character, the nun was decently scary, but I liked her earlier in the film and she's more mysterious when she starts like smiling and showing things near the end and you get a little closer and more personal with her.
00:45:39
Speaker
I don't know. It, Sometimes the best monsters I feel like shouldn't be seen as much. And at that point, just wasn't quite doing it for me. She was a little overexposed. Yeah. Still scary for me, but definitely thought the first one was scary.
00:45:51
Speaker
The first one, I had multiple jump scares where I'm like jumping down to my seat, actually audibly yelling. can i Can I tell you something about my connection with the Crooked Man? Yeah. Kindergarten, 1995, Anderson Elementary.
00:46:05
Speaker
There's ah some project that we do where you each can pick a nursery rhyme to then personify, dress up as, and then perform in front of your whole class.
00:46:18
Speaker
And so most kids did like they were a star, like twinkly twinkly little star, or they're little cute little mouse and they were hickory dickory dock, or they're a big fat Humpty Dumpty. It was a funny, right? I chose the crooked man.
00:46:29
Speaker
It's very short. I'll read it to you. There was a crooked man and he went a crooked mile. He found a crooked sixpence against a crooked style. He bought a crooked cat, which caught a crooked mouse.
00:46:42
Speaker
and they all lived together in a little crooked house. And I was like all hobbled over with a gray beard, reading this and everyone just kind of like, but you could hear a pin drop, I was like, what is this kid doing? Like, we don't even know this nursery rhyme, like bring over Humpty Dumpty, please, like get him off the stage. I don't know why I just I was ah was drawn to the crooked man. So maybe that's why I like that. You weren't going to be a sellout and just like recite London calling in your class. You were going to go for deep cuts only.
00:47:10
Speaker
Deep cuts only for the clash and for nursery rhymes both. Yeah. And then after that, Trav, I did Ghetto Defendant with Allen Ginsberg. I don't know what it's a deep cut from the clash. Oh, okay.
00:47:24
Speaker
Yes. Okay. Or, or I could have done first night back London. You've too deep. You've gone too deep. You've, you've surpassed my clash knowledge. What you don't like, you don't like Julie's been working for the drug squad. yeah You're speaking French to me right now. Rebel waltz.
00:47:38
Speaker
I just, I like the clash, but clearly I'm not proficient in their full. Let's just keep listening. I'm sure that'll get us in the mood.
00:47:59
Speaker
We kind of teased up the Amityville highlight already Yes We also teased I love the bus stop song um by the Hollies Which I thought was a callback to his time of the season ah Moment in the first You know, one long takes and both cut to music But um i one of my favorite parts about this movie is the the ah once the Warrens get to London and the and Lorraine has some time alone with the Janet with with Janet and Ed has some time alone with the mother and vice versa.
00:48:44
Speaker
They they spend some really cool quality time together and really investigating these person's fears, these people, these people's strengths. and And thought it was a real human part of the movie and where I was drawn, not just by the novelty of hauntings or the scares of possessions, but I really, ah really enjoyed watching these good hearted again, fake Warren's people trying to lift these people up and understand.
00:49:14
Speaker
And then furthermore, Trav, I don't know about you, but like we've seen our fair share of possession movies. I really, really liked it when Lorraine was talking to Janet and truly trying to stand on a technical level and then also a psychological level. Like what does it feel like when the power of this demon or the urge to do ventriloquism comes over her and like what it feels like. And she's like, it's coming from the back of my head. And like, and then it ends with a real scary note when she's like, well, he wants you to die. And she's like, when did he say that? And she's like, right now.
00:49:46
Speaker
So yeah those those moments, I think I'm grouping them all together and into these like intimate moments of conversations where there's, and you don't see anything scary. It's just conversations and I really liked them. I'm actually right there with you because for my highlight, it was, again, the first film I said it was the scariest. This film, it was like the antithesis of that, which were the more sentimental shots and just fleshing the characters out more. So I love specifically, um you get this scene, it's just prior to Christmas and really the climax of the movie where the Warrens, Maurice Gross and the skeptic, I think it's, ah her name's Anita Gregory in the film, played by Franca Patente.
00:50:25
Speaker
They're all in a pub, snow's falling in the background. And here are people who are all investigating the case. Some more willing to believe the family, some more skeptical, but kind of sharing their theories. And actually like, again, I think it highlights that even today, like there are, it's not clear cut one way or the other. There are some points for like, oh, that's interesting. And maybe I guess the better way to say it, it hasn't been disproven entirely yet.
00:50:52
Speaker
And some points of like, well, no, I could see how they'd easily be faking that. Let's talk about that. It's great. Not blindly accept everything. And it goes right from that scene to then it goes to the Hodgson's home at Enfield where Patrick Wilson whips out a guitar and starts playing a little Elvis for the family. i think he starts playing. I can't help falling in love and all the kids start singing along, which is so corny. But for me,
00:51:18
Speaker
You know, i I think my favorite horror films are like a roller coaster where if you're just in a straight free fall the whole time, you start to get used to the, you know, you've fully accelerated and you, it doesn't scare you as much as the slow climb back up before the next descent.
00:51:34
Speaker
I think this movie did a lot better job with that pacing with adding that more like human yes side of it. and And also I love Elvis. It felt very seventies with him just busting out an acoustic guitar and having the family all singing with them just prior to Christmas.
00:51:47
Speaker
Yeah. I, I, uh, I'm glad you brought up that part because yes, you can, you can label that as cheesy or whatever. Maybe it is a little bit, but it's all, it's also a movie. And also I thought it was a really, really great story note or like a really good story moment because they don't, they, they go to great pains to show that this, there's a huge gap in this family and that, or sorry, I should say void.
00:52:10
Speaker
And that is that the father left, you know, he left, he had an affair on the, on the mother and just bailed. And one thing that he took with him was all the records. and all He he he took years line yeah it took music out of the home.
00:52:23
Speaker
He took warmth and music literally out of the home. And it's not to say that Patrick Wilson is like the new dad figure, but he's a beacon of hope. And he brings the guitar and music and and records back into a place that needs that right now. And I thought that was a really sweet thing because before that, the only thing that Remit, like the...
00:52:45
Speaker
I guess alluded to music, Trav, or pop stars, was I thought done in a really creepy way, which is you see, this is one of my highlights, so I'll parlay this into this. There's so many moments when we're in the girls' room, and in the background, I think I'm seeing like spirits or ghosts or demons, but it's actually just big pictures of you know the pop icons of the day. Yes.
00:53:06
Speaker
The monkeys and, you know, I think the Beatles were up there, too. But but ah instead of them being these spirits, we get now in a daylight. Patrick Wilson's playing the guitar and it's no longer scary.
00:53:18
Speaker
So I really liked all that. Yeah, I i really like what you said, too. Like they are the hope for this family. And that's why it sets up the climax so well, because they leave. Right. They think that and it is a hoax. They realize, oh, Janet's been faking some of the stuff. Everyone cuts out.
00:53:33
Speaker
And then you find the family just entirely hopeless, which makes the climax all that more impactful for when the Warrens show back up at the very end to help help save them. And so, again, kind of a roller coaster feel and them being the hope for this family.
00:53:47
Speaker
I really like talking about all this like sweet, sentimental stuff. And as I see my name that I chose for this podcast as Vivac's vagina. Yes. um The human, the human side of the film.
00:53:58
Speaker
Uh, Oh, by the way, pretty pretty good retort from Janet. Like, what a good excuse of like, oh, why did you fake the spoons and throwing stuff and mending things? Well, that's because the demon told me to do it. I'm like, man, that's some next level thinking. Earlier, though, for like how the warns would, when someone would say like, oh, you know, this was clearly spoofed or this is a hoax and they could maybe fall back on. No, no, no.
00:54:20
Speaker
Like the devil, the demons want you to think it's a hoax to throw you off the
Plot Twists and Sentimental Reflections
00:54:24
Speaker
set. And so they actually capture some of that in the movie, which I like as well. um all right should we move on to our ben gardner jump scare award um yes i had i had one i had one other thing you got multiple highlights all right well i feel like no if it's worthwhile share it i want to hear i i liked the the same priest that was like their their connect the vatican is back the same oh that's the same priest yeah and a he's like
00:54:55
Speaker
I'll try to put a good word for you. try to, I'll try to read, I'll try to reach the Pope directly. And he's like, he's like, he's the Nick Fury. He, yeah, he's Nick Fury or M and the James Bond franchise. Like I got another assignment for you. Yeah.
00:55:09
Speaker
It's like the Catholic ghostbuster situation. um Oh, that's cool. That's cool. um All right. Ben Gardner, jump scare. Again, one does have some good jump scares in here. I don't find it as scary as the first film, but there are some pretty damn good ones.
00:55:22
Speaker
um ill I'll start here. I think the scariest scene for me, which ends in a very good jump scare, is about halfway through the film, Janet wakes up in the middle of the night and she goes downstairs and she sees the chair rocking and she retreats back to her bed.
00:55:38
Speaker
And then the shot is focused on her laying in her bed with her sister. And that's what you're seeing, but you are hearing approaching footsteps and they are so slow, but gradually building so good. And as they get close to the door, she hides under her sheets.
00:55:56
Speaker
And then again, i think I brought this up. Yes, you did. Usually when you hide under your bedding, that should be a safe space. Like that's the rules. don't Like that is the rules of ghosts. They can't touch you when you're under your bedding. You're a shitty ghost if you if you fuck. Exactly. And so here we have a shitty ghost who just rips the sheets off of her. Not fair. And it is terrifying. Do you think it's early enough in the film where you're like, these are the spookies, but they'll be OK. Like it won't be like full blown, scary pandemonium yet.
00:56:22
Speaker
And no, in fact, it does rip the sheet off of her and all of a sudden just terrifies her and her sister. And so that one got me because i I didn't think they'd go full-blown ghost attacking them yet.
00:56:33
Speaker
yeah that's I don't think that happened in real life. I mean, the Hodgson family have said that happened real life. I don't think there's actual records of sheets getting ripped off them in the middle of night.
00:56:43
Speaker
But if so, fish wire. Yeah. Right. That's what we established. That's it. Um, so that was my, that was my favorite jump scare the movie. I'll just, I'll just bury the lead here, or I guess unbury the lead, whatever the term is.
00:56:57
Speaker
I'll go ahead and say that my, my, um, what'd you say? Resurrect the lead. Yeah. I'm going resurrect better horror, horror terms here. Uh, that that that scene you just mentioned, in addition to being a great jump scare, the walking and creaking towards the girl in the bed, Janet, um that is my cantaloupe.
00:57:15
Speaker
Yeah, I was there as well. I probably should have said that it's hard to differentiate because it went from a scene that's really hard to watch to ah impactful jump scare, which sometimes is hard to do. You're expecting there might be a jump scare. Yeah, they still will still scare you. I just the like, I've said this earlier already in the episode, but what is what has done the best in terms of scary vibes for me in this movie is anytime and I think ah three out of the four children have their own little solo journey into the night at one point, like in the middle of the night, like I think each of them have, at three them. Yeah. of the little boys has the fire truck who goes into the tent and then you hear like the kids, crotch, the old man, go like, Oh, yes.
00:58:01
Speaker
Um, he's so ornery. Yeah. Uh, that was me. Um, is, is that, uh, um is is that a Juan is so great about shape-shifting in this movie.
00:58:14
Speaker
like they don't always They don't stay in their material form for too long. They either become shadows, and they become sounds, and then they possess Janet. you know like He doesn't overplay the scary goblin-looking creatures. They're there. Maybe sometimes they're a little too long, but then they'll so slink back into the shadows, and then they'll be a shadow, and then they'll be Janet. And I just think that he...
00:58:40
Speaker
he seamlessly puts the fear or like the representation of this demon into different places in a really cool way. agree. It would have been a lot less scary if you saw Bill Wilkins figure ripping the sheet off. Come here. He's like stumbling around.
00:58:55
Speaker
Give me that sheet, my girl. It's my house. My sheet. ah But my my Ben Gardner award though is is the moment, and I think it's a pretty famous part of the movie at this point, but we're,
00:59:08
Speaker
where Patrick Wilson is kind of blinded and he's looking at the Zotrop toy. ah And then just, you know, Bill. Is that the Crooked Man toy? Yeah.
00:59:19
Speaker
Okay. Yes. Gets scared of the tent. Yeah. Yeah. but That was good. That's really impactful as well. Well, let's move. I think this goes pretty seamlessly into our cantaloupe, you know, watch the gaps in your finger award.
00:59:32
Speaker
We should just trust the audience at this point, Travis. I mean, if people don't know what cantaloupe award is now, Like they got to go back and listen to the episodes. we yeah We have to keep explaining because this is valuable airtime that we have.
00:59:44
Speaker
Okay. It's a hard to watch scene. Hard to watch scene in a scary movie, which usually means you're depriving yourself of either like covering your ears, covering your eyes type scene. I like that. I just said that we don't need explain it. And then you say yes. I can't help myself. I can't help myself. You just love to explain. It's just cantaloupe's an obscure. I think it perfectly captures it. You named it.
01:00:05
Speaker
named it the Ollie Award and you changed it to the cantaloupe. Ollie's even, they're about equally obscure, I'd say. Either way, it's obscure. But yes. What word is said less?
01:00:17
Speaker
Ollie or cantaloupe? in the movie, bring her back. i don't think they say cantaloupe once. I don't think he's like, Ollie, don't bite that cantaloupe. I think it's just like, ah. um anyways we mentioned the scary scene with janet and the footsteps come towards her room but the other scary scene is back at the warren residence when patrick wilson has for whatever reason painted a picture of the nun that is haunting very good it's very tasteful hey babe hey babe what do you think of this art he's so charming about it a bit a bit silly for just an absolutely terrifying piece of art but he hangs it in a study
01:00:51
Speaker
Yeah, he wasn't like, he wasn't haunted at all by it. He's like, I just had this image in my head. It's like, you think it's the beach or like a dove. and he's like, oh, that this is fucking horrific. None. Yes.
01:01:02
Speaker
I guess his work takes a toll on him where he's just like, yeah, this is what I've been thinking about recently. Very, very nonchalant. um So Lorraine gets kind of enticed back into the study where the painting is hanging and with the lights flickering and going out.
01:01:17
Speaker
you know like well this is going to be you just know wands trying to scare you you just don't know when that scare is going to come and so that is the scene that's pretty prolonged with the lights are off the lights are on she keeps looking back at the painting and you're like when is this nun going to do some creepy shit and so the payoff was good not great but the fact that it lasted as long as it did like it's like a two minute, three minute long scene where i'm like, Oh my God, like this is hard for me to watch. So I would give my cantaloupe to that.
01:01:46
Speaker
Um, you have anything else other than the scenes we've kind of already touched on. i think you said yours was Janet's room here in the footsteps. Yeah. I think that's up there as well. We can kind of glide to the, the, that the deaths awards too. We can kind of just, we already, we already talked about it at length. It was the Amityville part.
01:02:02
Speaker
Yes. So again, none of the main characters get, killed but in a flashback at the very beginning or i guess not flashback but um lorraine warren enduring kind of those animal killings technically you get shot if we're including my this is my opinion we're going to count deaths and we say animals are half and we also say off screens are half. We should also say flashbacks and or visions are halves.
01:02:30
Speaker
So that means the six DeFeo family members plus Patrick Wilson is seven because he he keeps getting killed. So that means there's 3.5 deaths in this movie. Oh, where she hallucinates. He keeps getting speared into the chest. She has her vision. Yes. Okay. Okay. Yeah.
01:02:46
Speaker
Okay, so then there's a lot of deaths, but none of them that notable, I'd say, other than the yeah DeFeo killings in Amityville. Right. None of them, meaning Patrick Wilson's is not notable.
01:03:00
Speaker
ah It was good. It's a good plot device. um But yeah, the death mine our death awards, they take care of themselves. I think it's the DeFeos. I think it's the family getting shot. I agree. um All right. Well, let's move to our newer category, our favorite Shyamalan twist, Scooby-Doo, mass reveal.
01:03:16
Speaker
There is a slight twist in this film. there is. And i I think it's because Bill Wilkins, this kid said that we brought this up in the Poltergeist movie. There's apparently a difference between yeah ghost haunting and a demonic possession.
01:03:30
Speaker
They arrive thinking it's just about a ghost haunting. But the twist is this was all a front for a demon named Vivac. the vac who is the the the nun apparently who's been following them since amy deville and this is all her front to uh possess the kid and kind of misdirect ed and lorraine warren so it's a very light twist but i going back to what we were talking about earlier It works for the plot to get the horns out of there and then bring them back in hurry. More demons and working out their own inner politics on this regional game, yeah I'm fine with. like The nun's like, hey, I'm going to use you. and
01:04:12
Speaker
You can run around and be angry by the TV remote, but really I need you to open the door for me to get in there. i'd love to I love to be a fly on the wall those conversations. like How did she approach Bill? Well, I think it's redemption, right, for for Bill Wilkins because, like I was saying earlier, not entirely that scary. I feel sorry for him. And this is like, well, guess what?
01:04:30
Speaker
Bill was just the front man. yeah She is using him. she is She is a user in the relationship. He's not getting much from it. He's just kind of trapped in his house. He's just kind trapped in his house, still doesn't know where he is.
01:04:41
Speaker
doesn't know who these other people are, but she's using him for the purposes of possessing the Hodgson family or Janet Hodgson specifically. So I think that's our twist. I'm assuming you don't have any others.
01:04:52
Speaker
um No, I mean, that that is that's the twist of the movie. Okay. All right. Well, let's move on then to Don't Go In There Award. What did you have for this? Easiest one of the whole movie.
01:05:04
Speaker
Look, James Wan, I know it's there. I know it's enticing to use London Calling. Just don't go in there. I know you need a London montage. Use the turtles, use the zombies.
01:05:16
Speaker
Hell, even, even use the Beatles, which is cliche in general, there's so many deep cuts. Just don't go in there. Don't use London calling as your montage sequence to tell us about London. That's my only bill going there.
01:05:27
Speaker
I'm sorry. You know what? I'll, I'll even agree with you. Cause I didn't have a good one here. So we'll leave it at that, that don't be tacky on your song choices. Come on. The original better, you know, all right.
01:05:37
Speaker
All right. Well, best line. What do you have for your favorite line the movie? You let me go first on this? Yeah. I love it. As long as it's a good one. um I'm excited about it. um The line I'm about to utter is very is is an ethos about how I feel about my dog as well.
01:05:56
Speaker
Okay, so it's something that Lorraine says, but it's something about how I feel about my dog. Your name gives me dominion over you, demon. And I do know your name.
01:06:07
Speaker
i I do love that. I still love, I'm not sure why this is, but this has been a trope done in plenty of demon movies. Like it's an old Rumpelstiltskin. Like if you could figure out their name, then suddenly they're powerless. Like a tale as old as time. What's a yeah gachat What's in a name? You know, yeah it is, it is a funny, like it is a funny shortcut to power that doesn't really make sense, but we just buy it.
01:06:33
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. The Rumpelskiltson. I forgot that that's part of it, right? If you can say his name. Exactly. and like if If you could figure out his name. Yeah, exactly. It's like, oh, damn it. that i've lost ever I've lost my mojo.
01:06:46
Speaker
It's fun. So our girls call us mama and dada or mom and dad now as they're getting a bit older. But they love the fact that they know our real names. And so they'll already drop like, I know who you are, and Travis, as they just like as if I'm the demon, like it now they have power over me. And so I guess it even applies to kids. Yeah.
01:07:08
Speaker
they They use that when they need a flex on me. My actual best line is when Janet's doing her Bill Wilkins impression. And I think what I read at the top of the show where the whole line is literally, my name is Bill Wilkins and I'm 72 years old, which is just a very interesting way. And maybe why didn't find him that scary, but very interesting way to introduce yourself.
01:07:31
Speaker
But that is from the tape, like verbatim. So of course they have to include it. well no in the Well, the tape that I heard at at least in late at the end of the movie, he says, 61, was born in 1861 or something. Oh, okay. Okay. So they but they did pair either way. It's very similar, movie but very silly way to introduce yourself as a ghost. Um, but since i already mentioned that one, the the only other one is when the police are called to the home earlier in the film and they think like, okay, this is a hoax, what's going on here. And the chair moves right in front of them.
01:08:01
Speaker
And so they quickly get the hell out of there and they're like well, there's nothing we can do about that. Um, and so that was funny. I think, uh, I mentioned the first one, lot of throwaway lines that didn't make me laugh too much. This one, not a full on chuckle, but definitely got smirk out of me.
01:08:16
Speaker
My corners of my lips turned up. i think Lorraine does bit of a nod to ah Jennifer Love Hewitt where she looks up in the sky. i know what you did last summer, the first one, right? Like the original.
01:08:27
Speaker
She's like, what are you waiting for? Yes. But i don't know. I don't forget what she says in this one. That's why it's not a best line. But she looks up in the sky and she says something like, who are you know mean?
01:08:38
Speaker
It's also not to Bruce Almighty, where he looks up into the heavens at the of the film. He goes, smite me, almighty smiter. Yeah. um Anyways, but yeah, I don't remember what she says. But yes, yes.
01:08:49
Speaker
um a fairly common trope as well. Cursing the gods or demons, I guess in this case. um All right. Dull knives. um I actually had fewer for this film, so I don't know if you have any or you you get them started.
01:09:02
Speaker
Okay. Well, um we brought it up and so we can finally talk about it again. We're about the midpoint in the film. Patrick Wilson is helping around the home and offers to go help with the basement.
Humor and Realism in Movie Tropes
01:09:13
Speaker
Piggy Hodgson says, Oh, it's like a bit cluttered. Like down there. Don't mind us. So they go to the basement of their apartment and there's like two feet of standing water in there. for du if That's generous. I feel like it's like, well I think as the movie goes on, it it gets deeper. so there was a very active leak. Cause yes, by the end of the movie, like Patrick Wilson's on a substance waste in there. I think we, you, but you just hit the nail on the head. It's how like, it's a throwaway.
01:09:40
Speaker
like, Oh, there's some stuff down there. Like it's, it's off. It's like so bad. Like we, like it wasn't mind the dust. It wasn't like, no, this is a like this is a health hazard and like a foundational issue a structural hazard yeah you you keep a few feet of water in your basement that house is going to slowly start shifting away and coming in on itself it looked like like it looked like the behind the scenes of like the titanic scenes with james cameron's like filling up rooms of water like i know they want to portray they they weren't a family of much means but i i can't imagine this was a norm yeah we're just homes were filled like basically it's completely filled with water so
01:10:16
Speaker
it It serves, again, as a plot device for a few scares later in the film, which are good, but not even the best scares. It's just kind of silly. Using easy math for us simpletons, let's say the home is worth $100,000.
01:10:31
Speaker
What is it worth the moment you so walk in and see that? What's the decrease in... ah decrease wow yeah I guess the formula is usually how long has water been against the foundation? If it truly just flooded within like the last day, yeah're you're looking at maybe like $10,000 worth of damage to get all the water out and then do some remediation.
01:10:52
Speaker
But if it's been there for weeks or months or years, then that's where you have to start actually bracing the foundation of the home. Um, and you, and, you know, to your point, it, it could be costing more than the home is worth itself in order to repair that. You're totaling the home.
01:11:07
Speaker
Yeah. So, um, can you say, is that a term you say that, Hey, your home got totaled? um I think for insurance, like casualty loss, lost stuff. Like, don't know.
01:11:19
Speaker
It happens with auto. So I'm assuming it could happen with home at a certain point where they're like, Hey, we're not going to pay for the various pieces, but we're actually gonna replace. You could totally your home if you live in an RV. You could, you could.
01:11:31
Speaker
So what is this a pro RV take? Like, do you want to ever say your home got totaled living in an RV? Cause the regular house is little hard. This is neutral. We're just having conversation. It is very hard to destroy an entire home, I guess, going back to your point, but one good way to do that is let three feet of standing water just sit against your foundation for a very long period of time. Ridiculous.
01:11:48
Speaker
Yes. Don't do indoor swimming pools. Yeah. My, one of my dull knives was, I didn't understand. And I know I just I just complimented the film on its shape shifting ability. Like I liked going from monster to shadow to Janet and sounds and like never one thing.
01:12:08
Speaker
i never really understood who this like Jack Skellington mixed with salad fingers character was. what Crooked Man. But Bill Withers is the Crooked Man. i don't I think the Crooked Man was just another ghost. okay was Is there three that were built? That's my point. like You have a bunch of like other demons or ghosts chilling here. Maybe that was supposed to be Bill Wilkins.
01:12:33
Speaker
I need an Org chart. If I say Old Man Withers, i mean Bill Wilkins. I understand the nun is at the top of the Org chart. She's the mastermind.
01:12:47
Speaker
and And I understand that that Wilkins is like the lackey and he's like a pawn. But then who is, i thought Salad Fingers, Jack Skellington. He's like the temp. You know, Bill Wilkins can't be, he's old and he can't be working 24-7. Dude can't do 40-hour work weeks. So when they need another scare and he's off the clock, they're bringing in the crooked man.
01:13:08
Speaker
well Yes, yeah I think it's a valid nit to pick because that's just look I'm not sure what his but the crooked man's role in the home was. um And then my only other one, there's a scene in the film.
01:13:20
Speaker
Now the Warrens are staying at the house, at the Hodgson's home. Janet teleports up to the bedroom that they have locked off with a chain lock. And you see Peggy, hear her daughter go in there. And like any mother would, she's trying to break in. And there's like a good minute of her working with the lock and working with the chain where I'd assume as as in just shaking it just shake. Well, I didn't know that at first i was like, Oh, she's trying to unlock it. And then Patrick Wilson rushes out of his room. Like a minute later, Cesar is like, go grab the key. like, wait, what has she been doing this whole time? She literally was just rattling the chain for a minute. Like, how did she think that was going to work to get her in from a logistical perspective? I had the same exact thought. I was like, yeah what a colossal waste of time right here. Like your daughter's in there.
01:14:06
Speaker
You can't just jostle around eight foot chains yeah and hope that something's going to happen. I don't know how she was planning to get into the rooms. I thought that was a bit silly that that took me out of it, but that was it. That was it for my dual knives. You have any others?
01:14:19
Speaker
No, the ones I wrote down, I think. can just be explained with ventriloquism. So I'm not going to say it anymore. was like, how is she speaking with water in her mouth? And then I'm realizing now that that's like a thing they do.
01:14:30
Speaker
Maybe Jeff Dunham. didn't watch more Jeff Dunham. yeah denim ventri i hear them go She was talented. She was talented. um Winners and losers. Yes.
01:14:41
Speaker
So one winner I have the split diopter shot baby. You're not a Kino film director unless you're throwing a De Palma in there and having little split dialogue. Elaborate for us simpletons what that is. Oh, it's just, it's a ah ah tried and true device, a technique slash device that directors use mainly. i mean, like I guess the guy who uses it the most, like in almost all his movies is Brian De Palma. And what you do is it's the, you, it's the effect of having something in the foreground and background both be in focus.
01:15:15
Speaker
So, The reason there's many reasons you would do that. It's it's one because both so both of the subjects are important. You want to see the reaction of the thing behind, like looking at the thing in front.
01:15:27
Speaker
We see it in Jaws when Strider's character is looking out into the ocean. And but yeah, it's this little piece of glass that you literally put into the middle of the lens and it allows or there to be basically two lenses in the camera.
01:15:41
Speaker
And it's a physical thing. and This is not a digital effect. This is a physical thing you put into your camera lens. And the the fun creative part is like you always have to find a way to dissuade the audience from looking at there's always going to be a blurring effect in the middle of the of the frame because of the where that slit is or like where the the the change in the glasses. Yeah, there's usually like pole or like the end of a hallway is there or something. But anyways, he uses it when um I mean, I sent you the picture. What was the actual thing? Janet's like in the foreground and her mom piggies in the background, right? Like coming through the doorway.
01:16:18
Speaker
Yeah. And it's cool. I love it It's, it's beautiful to look at. i think that's the point of it. It's just a fun, fun film thing. And it's, uh, yeah, it's yeah. Patrick Wilson's opening. and Oh, you know what is they did? it Yeah. The, the, how they hide the blurred effect is it's like a pattern on it. It's like the wallpaper in the room. and And it's something that divides the subject from the foreground on the back. yeah It just looks cool. I just, it's something great. that i like Yeah. One, one made a good movie here.
01:16:44
Speaker
Okay, one of my winners. Nice nice comment, Jeff. Yeah. I mean, I think it is, again, night sorry, it's, ah I guess, a recurring theme, but I, think there's just a lot more to what it's not as scary but a lot more to like about there's there's more to sink your teeth into in this exactly um one of my winners so the neighbors rottweiler well-trained dog it goes and rings the bell with its nose when it needs to get let out was like that's incredible that's yeah good on them so simple but uh i've never been able to my dog is
01:17:15
Speaker
good How does he indicate when he needs to go out? Well, I was going to say he's part Walt Reiler. So anytime I see a Roddy, I'm thinking about him. He does the Roddy purr. They're known for like when they're happy and playing, they growl, they sound like a demon, but they're actually like having fun.
01:17:29
Speaker
um How does Emmett let you know when he needs to go out though? He didn't answer my question. Dude, he just looks at me so longingly. He's just like, hit the way he because He's usually a very lazy dog and he's like he's like relaxed and just kind of like spills all over the couch.
01:17:45
Speaker
The moment he needs to go out or wants anything, he doesn't bark. He never barks at me. He just sits up so straight and just stares me down. and Honestly, i almost would rather have him bark. I can sustain that because that's just like, shut up, dog.
01:18:00
Speaker
But when he's looking at you and burning you know a hole into your eyes, like Hey, and he can do it for an hour. he'll He'll just like, and I'm not saying I make him wait for an hour because there's the long, you can hold it I'm saying like, I have taken him out and he still looks at me when I bring him back in because he needs something else. He like wants, you know, food. Does Emmett ever make,
01:18:19
Speaker
eye contact with you and he's taking a dump because I had this issue with goose for the years when he was a puppy. Like he would go out, go to the bathroom and just stare me dead in the eyes while he was doing his business. There's an actual evolutionary reason for that, though.
01:18:31
Speaker
It's because um when there are wolves, any time that you're in a pack and of the animals in their pack has to take a shit that's one of the most vulnerable moments because they aren't able to react so they're looking to you to make sure like you got me threats yeah oh interesting i try and i to actually don't look at him because if i'm looking at him he's probably like no you should be looking out like my blind spots as soon as he looks at you you do that like awkward try to avoid eye contact i no elsewhere but but look over here man look like a bunny coming your way that's funny
01:19:05
Speaker
um But yeah, well-trained dog. um Any other winners on your end? um ah Just another great horny Christian line in this movie. ah In Conjuring 1, it was like, hey, we're going to cross the threshold. And in this one, it was this just like very clumsy exchange between Lorraine and Ed when they're sleeping in separate beds because they're sleeping in a very small right place. That's right. they're staying They're staying at the Hodgson's now. They've come come over to London and they're in the two separate twin beds.
01:19:33
Speaker
He's like, I just can't help. I just want to like, curl over there and be with you. I don't like being so separate from you. And she puts on this like cheesiest smile. She's like, well, you're just gonna have to stay over there. So yes, don't look forward to me get home. And then smile on the scene cuts. I'm like, you guys are so you're like a sex consultant on this movie. It makes me wonder like, is a James Wan had sex before.
01:19:57
Speaker
They needed a the dog and an intimacy coordinator, not for actual sex scenes, but for like, like, like sex talk. but Yes. Yes. I think that's a true theme now. They're both, both conjuring films. That's a good one.
01:20:10
Speaker
um Yeah. My, my only other winner, which you already mentioned is just like knowing the names of demons is, know, that's how you get them. That's how you get them. I got dominion over you. Should we move on to losers? Let's do it.
01:20:21
Speaker
right. One loser going back to the Rottweiler dog. What happens to him? Because he turns into the crooked man at one point in the movie. so And you never see him again. so least so you see guy no you see him at the very end. You see him at the end. Okay. good Good.
01:20:36
Speaker
That little transformation thing was so strange. I don't know. so Are you saying the dog's losing or the movie's losing? or oh i I thought the dog I thought the dog died i thought like the dog turned the crooked man and then just everyone was like, all right, he's gone now. So they they already killed one dog in the first film. So.
01:20:51
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Dogs in general were losers. I thought one was just killing one dog per film. That's good to hear that this one does come back in the end. What about you? You have any losers? I you you you said something earlier that maybe you disagree with me on this, but I do feel like it remind me his name is it Bashara? It was the composer's name. Bashara is the composer. Yeah.
01:21:09
Speaker
I feel like they're over-indexing Beshara. It's either Beshara's face or it's just a demon design that Wan keeps going back to the well for because that face just looks exactly like the one we saw in Conjuring 1.
01:21:22
Speaker
And i just keep seeing those yellow eyes and I'm like, I need some differentiation. So I guess the loser here is Beshara's got a cool thing going. i just don't want us to over-index, overexpose what he's going I mentioned it already, but think i think Juan does a good job in the other instances where the the ghost is not seen. And he I think he could have maybe had a bit more of that because um you could only see Bill so many times where even when he gets the yellow eyes, I'm like, okay, yeah, this is scary.
01:21:50
Speaker
I get it. My only other loser, so this kind of ties into when I was talking about Peggy trying to break into the room with the chain to get to Janet. But the end of the movie, when they're trying to get back into the home and they can't get in through the front door and they decide to go in through the back,
01:22:07
Speaker
the neighbor, Vic, gets a hatchet. And he's like, no, let me just like break through this door. And the dude is taking over five minutes, I think. And when you see him again, like he's only made a slit small enough for yeah Lorraine Warren to to sneak there.
01:22:26
Speaker
What was he doing? like He was not chopping that thing down efficiently at all. And he's a big dude. so If you watch The Shining and you see Nicholson's form where he uses all of his weight and uses the physics of levers and fulcrums and momentum to just hack away as much of that door as you can. This guy is like not learning from that whatsoever. Yes.
01:22:45
Speaker
Yes. um Granted, The Shiny would not come out until three years after this event of this movie took place. Unrelated universes, but I think sad.
01:22:56
Speaker
Here's another loser. This might be controversial, but um Dark Endings. the, you know, with a conjuring movie because the nature of the religion and the Warren's oversight, you're always going to kind of get a, like a happy ending.
01:23:10
Speaker
And I think that's something that I like in horror films when you have a dark ending, that's like hopeless and it's life and sometimes is bad and existence sucks. And there is something satisfying and kind of dark and icky. And we talked about this in our very first episode of the pod of like,
01:23:28
Speaker
satiating that part of your imagination and like the, the leg alligators of your soul. Yeah. And sometimes the alligators I want to see just like despair and like, I know I'm not going to get that. And also like, if you never have that, then you're just expecting every single movie to like, Oh, this will turn out fine in the end. So I think you need the occasional check of like, Oh my God, this is horrible.
01:23:48
Speaker
Um, to keep guessing on, on every film for like, I don't know, is this going to turn out well or not? like night of the living dead 1968, like one of best, all time best examples of just like it ending. So bleak for so many reasons. And like, you're not, you know, you're not going to get that with a Conrad movie. So yeah, I like that.
01:24:05
Speaker
Um, those are all of mine. You have any others you want to layer on? in No. All
James Wan's Influence and Series Anticipation
01:24:10
Speaker
right. i don't but can move to our scream King scream queen. Who do you have for this film? Trav you're going hate this.
01:24:17
Speaker
So maybe you can help me. but this is the first time where I really am stuck between a tie. One is more performance related, one is more business related, but I went like Madison Wolf, I feel like is a true scream queen in this. Like i just think she her report's so great. And I feel, I just, I want to give it to her, but it's hard not to give it to the character of the nun with how successful this- Getting her own franchise. Getting her own franchise, the second movie doing really well as well.
01:24:48
Speaker
i I'm having trouble picking between Madison Wolf and the nun as far as opinion. So i think relative to each other, I like your thought for the nun, especially because this was like unique IP for the fair check. This wasn't based on the Warren case files. They're just like, all right, we got to increase the scariness.
01:25:02
Speaker
Let's just throw a creepy nun. into this universe and then she gets her own spinoffs off this so i could see that although i personally would go with since we gave it to i believe lily taylor for the first conjuring movie or no or no we gave it to bishara we gave it to bishara the composer who played um um the witch we gave it to an actor um I would go with James Wan here, which I know is always returning the well of good director, but he had a lot more creative control in this movie. He's really hitting a stride. Now he started his own production company. He writes this one.
01:25:34
Speaker
And I think the movie shows for it again, where I like a lot more what this movie is doing. It it did turn down the scares a bit, but also it was just a lot more well-rounded. i feel like for, for a horror film.
01:25:47
Speaker
Yeah. Also hard not to give it to one. If we're not going to give to the first one, we probably have to give it in the second for literally the most successful. He didn't direct it though. Oh, that's a good point. Yeah, he just produced it.
01:26:01
Speaker
least well received one yeah well we hope yeah um that he doesn't that's your point is the last one he directs from the franchise yeah and then it this becomes the the most valuable horror franchise or at least highest grossing so yeah i you you probably you've've you've convinced me it's probably gonna be one just out of default well i think that about does it for us um people are looking for us on social media where can they find us drive they can find us on instagram.com subsidiary of meta evil company are people actually going to instagram.com i don't know just using the app right who knows people who are strange um
01:26:41
Speaker
Yes, the Sundayscaries.pod. But however, a few days ago, I did activate our Twitter account, Trav, just to start expanding to meet the needs. and So that there are the requirements for the username of Twitter are a little different. So it it is different. It's just the sunscaries.
01:26:58
Speaker
So at the sunscaries. What, did we get like character capped? Yes, we did. that You can only have like 11 characters now. I tried, trust me, I tried it in different ways. Okay. I know it's the worst. The sunscaries.
01:27:09
Speaker
We only have eight followers, so it would be cool if you guys come find us there. I don't even have a Twitter. I might have to start one. did Can I tell you what my first, but what, sorry, what our first post on, uh, X north formerly known as Twitter was, what is it? haven't seen it on August 17th. I said, hello, Twitter slash X slash hell.
01:27:31
Speaker
We are the Sunday scaries, a young sapling of a podcast or films don't scare us, but social media does. I like that. It's not good. Yes.
01:27:42
Speaker
So come join us if you want to see, you know, future episodes we're going to cover. We we share it there. Some fresh memes. At some point we'll share some video, but we're we haven't been brave enough to do it where you guys can see us podcasting. I'm ready. I'm like ah i'm like in a real room now. So you're still in the closet. I'm still in the closet. I have not come out of the closet yet.
01:28:02
Speaker
Anyways. um Oh, I was going to ask you yes real quick. The title for the third Conjuring movie that we're doing next week has always just made I know nothing about the movie and I'm going to go in blind to.
01:28:14
Speaker
But the title always makes me chuckle. It's like the devil made me do it. It's like it's like they ate a cookie and they weren't supposed to. And it's like the devil made them do it. So i was going to ask you, yeah, like a little T. He like a little T. He moment. So i was going ask you, like what do you think it's about?
01:28:28
Speaker
like Well, I do know the case file. It's about. Oh, OK. But when I hear that phrase, I agree because. It is kind of a silly, like, oh, the dog ate my homework. The devil made me do it. just It goes back to, like, the creche faux Christian horny naughtiness of, like, it touched your butt. Like, the devil made me do it.
01:28:48
Speaker
Oh, man. Maybe it is sexier. Maybe Juan's, like, going to have some more of this playful banter between Ed and Lorraine. They really need to ramp it up. Like, I don't need a full-on sex scene between Patrick and Vera, but i I need a little more heat.
01:29:02
Speaker
on the fastball. They have a daughter, so they at least had to have gotten it on at some point. That's true. Proof. um Anyways, we will see you guys next week for the Conjuring the Devil Made Me Do It.
01:29:13
Speaker
Thanks for joining us. Until then, bye! Bye!
01:29:30
Speaker
Sorry, I'm taking off my pants. my okay my aunt my My scars are... Do we keep this in? i'm just like I'm getting really itchy where all the wounds were. and I just needed some air.