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Welcome to another episode of The Positively Healthy Mom Podcast! In this episode, we are joined by the wonderful Jessica Speer, an expert in helping kids navigate friendships and digital spaces. Jessica is the author of several insightful books, including her latest on cell phones and social media. This episode is a treasure trove of advice and strategies for parents dealing with the complexities of teen digital drama.

We kick off the conversation by discussing the importance of self-awareness in friendships. Jessica emphasizes the value of looking inward and understanding our own behaviors and contributions to any issues that arise. She shares practical advice on using "I" statements to help kids express their feelings and set boundaries effectively, a crucial skill in maintaining healthy relationships.

Jessica introduces her newest book, aimed at 8-12-year-olds, focusing on the challenges of cell phone use and social media. She explains why it’s essential for kids to understand how tech companies design apps to keep them hooked and the importance of being informed digital citizens. This book is a fantastic resource for parents looking to prepare their children for the digital world, covering topics like digital safety, privacy, and cyberbullying.

Speaking of cyberbullying, Jessica shares her insights on distinguishing between digital drama and more severe forms of cyberbullying. She highlights the importance of creating a safe space for kids to talk about their experiences without fear of overreaction. Parents play a crucial role in guiding their children through these challenges by staying calm, listening actively, and providing the support they need.

Throughout the episode, Jessica and I discuss the delicate balance parents must strike between being involved and allowing their kids to handle situations independently. We delve into the concept of "not digging for pain," encouraging parents to avoid repeatedly bringing up past issues, allowing kids to move on and heal in their own time.

Join us for this enlightening conversation filled with practical tips and heartfelt advice. Whether you're dealing with teen digital drama or looking for ways to support your child's social-emotional development, this episode is packed with valuable insights.

Tune in now to learn, grow, and transform with us!


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Transcript

Introduction to Positively Healthy Mom Podcast

00:00:00
Speaker
Hey moms, it's Laura Olinger.
00:00:02
Speaker
Welcome to the Positively Healthy Mom podcast.
00:00:05
Speaker
Because there's no manual for the hardest job in the world.

Meet Jessica Spear: Author of Social-Emotional Learning Books

00:00:09
Speaker
Hey everyone, today I'm so excited to bring to you Jessica Spear.
00:00:14
Speaker
She is an author of many books that have to do with social, emotional, learning, feelings, everything that teenagers and preteens, tweens go through.
00:00:24
Speaker
And so Jessica, can you tell us a little bit about your books?
00:00:28
Speaker
Sure, sure.
00:00:29
Speaker
And thank you for having me, Laura.

Helping Teens Navigate Social and Emotional Challenges

00:00:31
Speaker
My name is Jessica Spear.
00:00:32
Speaker
And for the last 10 years, I've been really honing in on writing helpful guides for the preteen and the early teen years.
00:00:39
Speaker
As you said, you know, sometimes this can be a tricky time socially and definitely emotionally as kids are going through changes.
00:00:46
Speaker
So my first book, I've got a background in social sciences.
00:00:49
Speaker
My first book grew out of a friendship program that I ran in schools for girls.
00:00:55
Speaker
The long title of the book is called BFF or NRF.
00:01:00
Speaker
NRF stands for Not Really Friends.
00:01:03
Speaker
Happy Friendships.

Focus on Middle School Relationships and Digital Safety

00:01:05
Speaker
Then I wanted to do another book that's really focused on relationships, especially in the middle school years for all genders.
00:01:12
Speaker
So my second book is called Middle School Safety Goggles Advised.
00:01:17
Speaker
And then...
00:01:19
Speaker
My latest book, which came out last summer, is called The Phone Book.
00:01:22
Speaker
Stay safe, be smart, and make the world better with a powerful device in your hand.
00:01:26
Speaker
Because as we know, especially in the preteen, teen years, a lot of this is shifting online.
00:01:32
Speaker
So I wanted to really talk about that and help kids become more aware about digital safety and digital citizenship and communicating online.
00:01:41
Speaker
So that's the information that went into my third book.
00:01:44
Speaker
So these books are written for preteens and early teens.

Boosting Kids' Confidence Through Challenging Times

00:01:48
Speaker
They're interactive.
00:01:49
Speaker
So they're filled with quizzes and stories and quotes from kids.
00:01:55
Speaker
Just ways to try to keep it engaging and fun as kids work through this.
00:01:59
Speaker
That's so awesome.
00:02:00
Speaker
And so what is the overall message?
00:02:02
Speaker
Or maybe each of your books has a different message, but what's the overall message you're trying to convey?
00:02:07
Speaker
You know, and they all go into different things, but I think the overarching method is to...
00:02:13
Speaker
to give kids a little more confidence in these areas.
00:02:18
Speaker
We might notice as parents of preteens, early teens, there's a big confidence dip sometimes.
00:02:23
Speaker
And

Teenagers and Self-Worth: The Role of Others' Opinions

00:02:24
Speaker
so this helps them maybe tap back into some of that confidence, let them know that they're not alone, that a lot of other kids are experiencing some challenges in these areas too, and just some high level insights.
00:02:36
Speaker
In fact, my first
00:02:37
Speaker
book has nine friendship truths, I call them.
00:02:40
Speaker
And there are these things that we learn over the course of our lives about friendship.
00:02:45
Speaker
But what I found when I was running my friendship program is it's helpful for kids to know some of these insights earlier on.
00:02:51
Speaker
In fact, if the earlier they knew them, the less likely they were to think, hey, there's something wrong with me.
00:02:56
Speaker
This is actually sometimes just what happens in relationships.
00:03:00
Speaker
So yeah, so...
00:03:02
Speaker
a combination of all those things in all those books in some varying form.
00:03:08
Speaker
And I think it's so awesome that you write to your audience and let them know that, you know, it's not them that, you know, this is just something that's normal that we're all kind of going through at that time, kind of some insecurity, some self doubt.
00:03:21
Speaker
And so a lot of times what teenagers and tweens do is they look to others for, um,
00:03:28
Speaker
the opinion that they have of themselves.
00:03:30
Speaker
So it's kind of like if the other people think that they're okay, then they must be okay.
00:03:34
Speaker
And if the other people don't think they're okay, they must not be okay.

Jessica's Motivation and Observations on Friendship Challenges

00:03:37
Speaker
And so they're kind of like looking for that feedback.
00:03:40
Speaker
And so unfortunately, a lot of times they don't get that feedback.
00:03:42
Speaker
And then they start to have that self-doubt and that insecurity.
00:03:46
Speaker
And do you have any stories that you could share of either...
00:03:50
Speaker
The people that you talk about in your book are real life people that you know that kind of had to overcome those negative messages that they were getting from those outside sources and learn how to speak more kindly to themselves.
00:04:03
Speaker
Yeah, and that's a great question.
00:04:05
Speaker
And one thing that inspired me to write this book was, you know, spending time with groups of young preteens who are feeling like they're having a hard time in their friendships.
00:04:17
Speaker
It was so interesting to watch.
00:04:19
Speaker
A group would come together and we'd work together for a couple of weeks and work on some skills and it'd be fun and there'd be games.
00:04:25
Speaker
But one of the most powerful parts was them looking around the room and seeing, oh, it's not just me.
00:04:31
Speaker
Wow, that person's here too.
00:04:33
Speaker
Whoa.
00:04:34
Speaker
So I think we tend to, especially in the preteen, teen years, we look, like you said, we're looking so much
00:04:41
Speaker
what's happening in our peers, but it's not telling the whole story about what's really going on with everybody.
00:04:46
Speaker
So I could see a sense of relief in the room all the time by kids just noticing, oh, it's not just

The Dynamics of Friendship and Skill Development

00:04:54
Speaker
me.
00:04:54
Speaker
So that's in my book.
00:04:56
Speaker
I include many, many quotes and stories from real kids because it's so important for kids to know that they're not alone in this.
00:05:04
Speaker
It might look like everybody has these awesome close friends, but there's a lot more that we're not seeing that's happening with all these kids.
00:05:13
Speaker
Totally, totally.
00:05:14
Speaker
So what is some of your best advice that you give to the people that you work with?
00:05:20
Speaker
Let me share some of the friendship truths, which I share in my first book, which is the BFF or NRF Not Really Friends, a guide to happy friendship.
00:05:27
Speaker
So some of the friendship truths that I found resonated a lot with kids are one.
00:05:31
Speaker
friendships have different phases and change over time.
00:05:35
Speaker
And just knowing that, it makes those inevitable friendship changes just a little less uncomfortable.
00:05:42
Speaker
I mean, friendship changes are always uncomfortable.
00:05:45
Speaker
But when we look at the research, it is so common.
00:05:49
Speaker
It's especially common in the preteen years, especially around middle school.
00:05:54
Speaker
You know, kids are
00:05:55
Speaker
their interests are changing, they're meeting new kids, they might be changing schools.
00:06:00
Speaker
There's a lot of group dynamics.
00:06:01
Speaker
So it's really common
00:06:03
Speaker
for friendships to change.
00:06:04
Speaker
In fact, it's a minority of kids that sail through their school years with the same group of friends.
00:06:10
Speaker
You know, the majority, there's a lot of changes there, but that can feel hard.
00:06:14
Speaker
It's not easy.
00:06:15
Speaker
So just kids knowing.
00:06:17
Speaker
Friendships have different phases and change over time.
00:06:20
Speaker
It's great to know that.
00:06:21
Speaker
You know, stay open to that.
00:06:22
Speaker
Stay open to changes.
00:06:23
Speaker
We'd never know the end of the story, you know, now that I've got high school kids myself.
00:06:28
Speaker
I can see kids reconnecting, you know, kids that maybe went separate ways.
00:06:32
Speaker
Now they're reconnecting in other ways.
00:06:35
Speaker
So it's keeping kids' minds open to that.
00:06:38
Speaker
One other friendship truth is,
00:06:41
Speaker
that everyone develops friendship skills at a different pace.
00:06:44
Speaker
And I like to talk about friendship in terms of skills.
00:06:48
Speaker
In fact, my books have quizzes in that.
00:06:52
Speaker
In addition to like, how healthy is my friendship?

Teaching Kids to Express Their Needs in Friendships

00:06:54
Speaker
There's a quiz is, how are my friendship skills?
00:06:58
Speaker
And anybody who takes that quiz, whether you're, you know, seven to 70,
00:07:03
Speaker
there's going to be some parts of that quiz are like, oh, yeah, I still could grow in this area, you know, because there's there's a lot of skills that go into friendship and all we can really control, you know, is ourself and and just being aware of, hey, maybe because I'm like this, it might be contributing to this conflict that I'm having with my friend.
00:07:22
Speaker
So knowing that friendship's a two way street and
00:07:24
Speaker
We all have different skills and we're all developing these skills at a different pace.
00:07:28
Speaker
Yes.
00:07:28
Speaker
So I love that point about, you know, not necessarily blaming others for the things that they're doing in the friendship, but more kind of like looking inside yourself with taking that quiz and really understanding kind of how you might be contributing to the problem or kind of like where your strengths are, maybe where your weaknesses are, how can you improve as a friend?
00:07:48
Speaker
Because after all, that's all we can really do is control what we do with ourselves.
00:07:51
Speaker
Is that kind of like what the purpose is of that?
00:07:53
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:07:54
Speaker
Because you're right.
00:07:55
Speaker
That's all we can really control is ourselves and our kids too.
00:08:00
Speaker
But in some ways, we do have some other ways that we can control tricky situations.
00:08:04
Speaker
And I don't think it's ever too early to help kids start to...
00:08:08
Speaker
figure out how to set some boundaries.
00:08:10
Speaker
So one other friendship truth I'll share is, you know,

Self-Reflection in Conversations: Encouraging Self-Awareness

00:08:14
Speaker
we teach others how we want to be treated by speaking up.
00:08:17
Speaker
And this can be really hard.
00:08:19
Speaker
I found, especially working with a lot of girls, this is a tough one, you know, so especially because friendships, you know, early friendships tend to feel pretty fragile.
00:08:29
Speaker
And so what I found is girls are afraid to speak up.
00:08:33
Speaker
because they're afraid what might happen.
00:08:34
Speaker
Will they lose the friendship?
00:08:36
Speaker
Will their friend get mad?
00:08:38
Speaker
So speaking up is a real challenge and it's a skill that takes practice.
00:08:43
Speaker
So I do encourage girls to begin to practice and we work through I statements.
00:08:50
Speaker
So instead of saying, you never let me go first, they would say,
00:08:55
Speaker
I feel like I'm not getting the chance to go first.
00:08:58
Speaker
Can I go first next time?
00:08:59
Speaker
So starting with the I and kids immediately get that, you know, we do role plays and practice that.
00:09:05
Speaker
They know what it feels like to have a finger pointed and say you versus someone saying, hey, I feel I'm feeling left out.
00:09:12
Speaker
So just starting to teach these basic communication skills.
00:09:16
Speaker
And, you know, for a lot of kids, it might take a lot of time and practice before they can begin to speak up.
00:09:21
Speaker
But, you know, I think that's a great role.
00:09:24
Speaker
for parents and caregivers is to, you know, gently keep encouraging them and supporting them to do that.
00:09:29
Speaker
And we can model that ourselves in gentle ways.
00:09:33
Speaker
I do feel like, you know, we can teach our kids how to speak up in a way that is kind and respectful, and then they're more likely to be heard.
00:09:41
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:09:42
Speaker
Yes.
00:09:42
Speaker
I actually helped a client

Digital Safety and Citizenship for Preteens

00:09:44
Speaker
with that the other day.
00:09:45
Speaker
She said she feels like in conversation with her friends that they we kind of had to get a percentage.
00:09:50
Speaker
We are as coaches, we're always measuring things.
00:09:53
Speaker
And so she said, I feel like my friends talk all the time and I don't get a chance to talk.
00:09:57
Speaker
And I said, well, is it like 90 10 is 80 20?
00:10:00
Speaker
What's it like?
00:10:00
Speaker
And it turned out it was actually just 60 40 where they talk 60 percent of the time she speaks 40 percent.
00:10:05
Speaker
And I said, well, how could you get that closer to 50 50?
00:10:08
Speaker
And she wasn't sure.
00:10:09
Speaker
So I kind of helped her come up with exactly what you just said, like the I statements, like, I don't feel like I'm getting time to share my thoughts and feelings.
00:10:17
Speaker
I don't, you know, I'm not feeling heard.
00:10:19
Speaker
I, you know, starting with the I and really kind of getting that confidence up to really speak her truth and speak how she was feeling to the friends.
00:10:27
Speaker
And then they can, you know, respond the way they would like to, and hopefully a healthy way and work it out and maybe get closer to that 50-50.
00:10:34
Speaker
So kind of getting that concrete,
00:10:37
Speaker
you know, goal in mind instead of just feeling this feeling of, oh, I don't get to talk enough, but more like putting some action to it.
00:10:42
Speaker
So I love that your books really address that as well.
00:10:46
Speaker
I would love to move over to your newest book about cell phones and technology and social media.
00:10:51
Speaker
That is something that I spend a lot of time on in my work.
00:10:54
Speaker
And so I would love to hear what your thoughts are about it.
00:10:56
Speaker
How are you addressing this in your book?
00:10:58
Speaker
Hmm.
00:10:59
Speaker
Well, the book is written for eight to 12 year olds because that's actually kind of the average age where kids are starting to get smartphones.
00:11:07
Speaker
So last I checked, a most recent study I looked at was maybe somewhere between an 11 and 12 is when kids are getting smartphones.
00:11:15
Speaker
And, you know, kids have connected devices very early on.
00:11:19
Speaker
But it's a little different when they have the smartphone and they're out of the home,
00:11:23
Speaker
maybe more able to get apps on their own.
00:11:26
Speaker
So I wanted to put a book out there that really helps them, first of all, be safe, but also think about how they are as digital citizens and also how these technologies work.
00:11:40
Speaker
In fact, the first chapter is
00:11:42
Speaker
why tech companies want you staring at your screen.
00:11:46
Speaker
So I think for all of us, you know, from age eight to, you know, however old, it's important for us to know that a lot of platforms and social media are based on, you know, collecting data and advertising.
00:11:57
Speaker
So we just need to know that.
00:11:59
Speaker
So in that chapter, I talk about that and persuasive design.
00:12:03
Speaker
So the strategies that technology used to keep us coming back to them, you know,
00:12:07
Speaker
tagging and notifications and levels and tokens.
00:12:10
Speaker
So I wanted to help kids be really informed consumers of technology.
00:12:16
Speaker
And what I found, again, working with preteens and teens is kids hate to be duped.
00:12:21
Speaker
So they love it when they have a little information like, oh, okay, I see how this works.
00:12:26
Speaker
So I want to be a little more
00:12:28
Speaker
control in their hands, realizing, you know, they're up against a real challenge here.
00:12:32
Speaker
We have some of the best designers and engineers of these beautiful products that, I mean, I love technology.
00:12:38
Speaker
I'm not against technology, but I do think they're so beautifully designed, you know, and so for the young brain, the developing brain, it can be hard for them
00:12:46
Speaker
to really put some boundaries and some awareness in place to keep, to keep their use in check.
00:12:52
Speaker
And then also how to stay safe online.
00:12:54
Speaker
So I've got chapters on, you know, digital safety and privacy and cyber bullying and cyber drama.
00:13:00
Speaker
So I think,
00:13:01
Speaker
The more information that we put in kids' hands, you know, the better off they're going to be.
00:13:06
Speaker
And I always encourage, you know, parents can.
00:13:09
Speaker
This book is a great book to go through with your child before you get them that device.
00:13:15
Speaker
You know, so it kind of talks about all those things that we as parents want them to know.

Understanding Cyberbullying vs. Digital Drama

00:13:20
Speaker
So it's a great starting point for conversations and to put maybe a family tech agreement in place, you know, so that as they launch into their device, they
00:13:30
Speaker
the family feels really ready for that.
00:13:33
Speaker
I love that.
00:13:34
Speaker
I'm actually going to refer your book.
00:13:35
Speaker
Yeah, I'm giving a talk to our school board here in my school district about cell phones being used in school, and they're asking me to kind of address the issue.
00:13:44
Speaker
And I would love to just use you as a general reference for parents who are kind of just getting started in that age where they're giving their kids phones and they don't know exactly how to, you know, monitor it or stay safe.
00:13:55
Speaker
So you would be an amazing reference for that.
00:13:58
Speaker
And so
00:13:58
Speaker
The last topic I really want to get to is what you talked about, bullying and cyberbullying.
00:14:02
Speaker
So that is also a topic that I work with on with teenagers and parents and tweens as well.
00:14:08
Speaker
And so what is your guidance on that?
00:14:10
Speaker
What do your books talk about?
00:14:11
Speaker
Oh, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on that too.
00:14:14
Speaker
But
00:14:15
Speaker
First of all, I want to make sure that kids and parents and families understand really what cyberbullying is versus digital drama, which is very common.
00:14:24
Speaker
Digital drama is basically some of the mean stuff that we see happen in life, especially in kids and teens.
00:14:32
Speaker
shifted online.
00:14:33
Speaker
So maybe kids going at each other, you know, there's some mean comments, some snide remarks.
00:14:39
Speaker
That usually it's kind of a situation that then it goes away.
00:14:43
Speaker
Now, how that differs from cyberbullying is cyberbullying feels very directed at one person.
00:14:49
Speaker
So a group might be really targeting a group or another group, and it's really constant.
00:14:55
Speaker
You know, it keeps happening over and over again, and it's pretty cruel.
00:14:59
Speaker
you know, sometimes it's, sometimes we can't even see what's going on.
00:15:01
Speaker
There, there's a lot, there's some apps out there that are anonymous, which I highly encourage you families to avoid anonymous apps.
00:15:09
Speaker
They're, they're not safe places for kids to be, or it's happening in DMs, you know, on social media.
00:15:14
Speaker
So it's, it's privately, they're privately said.
00:15:17
Speaker
So it might not be very apparent that kids are getting targeted, but so it's really essential for parents to
00:15:25
Speaker
Talk to their kids if they ever feel like they are getting targeted.
00:15:30
Speaker
You repeated mean messages over and over to let them know that this is a situation, you know, that they need to come to you and let you know about that and to work that through together.
00:15:40
Speaker
And let them know that sometimes kids are afraid to come to their parents because they think they might overreact.
00:15:46
Speaker
So make sure you're letting them know that you're going to address this in a way that feels safe and comfortable for them.
00:15:51
Speaker
But nobody deserves to be treated that way.
00:15:54
Speaker
So if it crosses that line and just from digital drama into this is really directed at one person and it's pretty aggressive and mean and harassing, that

Parental Involvement in Social-Emotional Challenges

00:16:04
Speaker
needs to stop.
00:16:04
Speaker
And intervention is what I found is normally happens there.
00:16:08
Speaker
It doesn't solve itself on its own.
00:16:10
Speaker
We need some adult intervention there.
00:16:13
Speaker
Yes, yes, I completely agree.
00:16:15
Speaker
And so with what you said about adults' reactions, I know that that's a topic that you are very passionate about, how parents are responding when kids come to them with any type of friend problem or social-emotional need, difficulty that they're having.
00:16:31
Speaker
So what is your advice to parents about how they respond to anything?
00:16:35
Speaker
And this, I found, is a practice for parents and even for me personally.
00:16:40
Speaker
So it's very easy to
00:16:42
Speaker
as parents, when our kids come to us with something that they're struggling with or something that's really hard for us to almost get triggered by that.
00:16:50
Speaker
So us to get very mad or very sad or just pounce on that situation.
00:16:57
Speaker
And when we get to the preteen and the teen years,
00:17:00
Speaker
that's not helpful.
00:17:02
Speaker
So what we've done there is our kids are already feeling emotional.
00:17:06
Speaker
They've told us something and now we've kind of gone off on our own emotional roller coaster and they see that as ungrounded.
00:17:14
Speaker
So that to them doesn't feel like a safe space to go.
00:17:18
Speaker
What is most helpful for them is if we, even as creepy or as weird as what they're telling us sounds, we take a deep breath
00:17:27
Speaker
We ground ourselves and the first thing out of our mouth is, I'm so glad you told me this.
00:17:33
Speaker
You know, tell me more.
00:17:35
Speaker
So it's just so calm, so grounded.
00:17:39
Speaker
And step one is just to listen, you know, not to react, just to listen, to get a good understanding and help them feel heard in this situation.
00:17:50
Speaker
Because it's a true gift for the person across from you to really hear you.
00:17:56
Speaker
So instead of them reacting and going off on their own emotional roller coaster or their own problem solving, just being truly heard is healing in itself.
00:18:04
Speaker
So we've already started the process of helping our child get more settled if we can respond in that way.
00:18:11
Speaker
But it's hard, you know, because we as parents hate to see our kids struggle.
00:18:16
Speaker
And sometimes it does trigger something really big inside of us.
00:18:20
Speaker
So as best as we can settle ourselves, you know, listen.
00:18:25
Speaker
be calm and figure out the best way to work through that.
00:18:28
Speaker
But if we can consistently respond in that way, they'll keep coming back to us.
00:18:34
Speaker
You know, they'll feel like, okay, this is not going to send my mom, you know, off the roof.
00:18:40
Speaker
I can go to her and talk to her about this.
00:18:41
Speaker
So we're kind of creating a safe space for them to come to us when things do start to get real challenging or serious.
00:18:48
Speaker
Yes, I love that.
00:18:49
Speaker
And I completely agree.
00:18:50
Speaker
In fact, that's why I have a parenting course on my website called Cracking the Parent Code.
00:18:55
Speaker
And the first module is self-awareness.
00:18:57
Speaker
The second one is emotional regulation.
00:18:59
Speaker
And the third one is communication.
00:19:01
Speaker
And I have eight modules total, but those first three kind of address that where
00:19:04
Speaker
We're regulating ourselves emotionally.
00:19:06
Speaker
We're being self-aware of kind of like what we're putting out there.
00:19:09
Speaker
And then we're communicating effectively by being really good listeners, by validating their feelings.
00:19:14
Speaker
And so the reason why I feel like that is also so important to make the listeners kind of really understand that point
00:19:21
Speaker
is when you react because you have a trigger, then the problem is that your child is then holding, you know, their own emotional problem that they came to in the first place.
00:19:30
Speaker
But then they're also kind of having to manage your emotions.
00:19:32
Speaker
They're kind of either having to calm you down or reassure you.
00:19:35
Speaker
So then it's giving them two jobs.
00:19:37
Speaker
First, they're dealing with their own emotions, and then they're having to, you know, react or respond to your emotions.
00:19:41
Speaker
And it's just too much.
00:19:42
Speaker
And so that's why as the adult, you
00:19:45
Speaker
As the parent, our job is then to kind of, like you said, kind of emotionally regulate, put our emotions to the side, whatever we are feeling in that moment, which a lot of times is incredibly justifiable.
00:19:56
Speaker
Like if somebody else's kid does something pretty mean to our kid, we're going to react.
00:20:00
Speaker
We're going to be triggered.
00:20:01
Speaker
We're going to be protective.
00:20:03
Speaker
We're going to be tiger mamas.
00:20:04
Speaker
Right.
00:20:04
Speaker
And we're going to be like, oh, my gosh, that kid has no right to say that to whatever it is.
00:20:08
Speaker
but that doesn't matter in that moment, right?
00:20:10
Speaker
We have to put that to the side and really tend to our kids' feelings.
00:20:14
Speaker
So just kind of be thankful that they are open to sharing because it does get hard.
00:20:19
Speaker
The older they get, the more likely they are to shut down when they're more into the teenage years.
00:20:24
Speaker
They're not gonna come with you.
00:20:25
Speaker
And so you always wanna have that door that feels open to them where they know it's not about you and your freak outs and your emotions, but that it's about them and their emotions.
00:20:34
Speaker
So how does that resonate with you?
00:20:35
Speaker
Oh, I completely agree 100%.
00:20:38
Speaker
And I know a lot of parents look back and think, oops, you know, I did not do this well.
00:20:44
Speaker
And, you know, and all of us have moments where we didn't do this well.
00:20:47
Speaker
So let me just put this out there for all the parents is.
00:20:50
Speaker
We've all kind of messed this up at times and it's okay.
00:20:55
Speaker
You know, at any point in our parenting journey, we can change our path and change our reactions and kind of repair what had

Guidance for Navigating Children's Social Struggles

00:21:03
Speaker
happened in the past.
00:21:03
Speaker
So, so if you're listening to this and thinking, oops, oh no, you are not alone.
00:21:08
Speaker
I also, you know, it took me a while to get, you know, a handle on this myself.
00:21:12
Speaker
So, so we are all learning our, so give yourself grace and
00:21:16
Speaker
you know, you can start at any time.
00:21:18
Speaker
And sometimes when I feel like I really haven't done this well with my kids, I'll circle back and be like, you know what?
00:21:25
Speaker
I, when you, when this happened, I realized I did this and I am so sorry.
00:21:30
Speaker
What I wish I'd done instead was this, you know, so I'm acknowledging, you know, with my child that I didn't handle this as I would have.
00:21:38
Speaker
And, and I acknowledge that and I'm sorry about this.
00:21:40
Speaker
This is what I want to do next time.
00:21:41
Speaker
And, and that's, that's a repair that can help that situation.
00:21:45
Speaker
And,
00:21:45
Speaker
and help you propel yourself into the new way that you want to respond in the future.
00:21:51
Speaker
I think that's amazing.
00:21:52
Speaker
I love that word repair.
00:21:53
Speaker
And I think that's such an important example that we can set for our kids.
00:21:56
Speaker
And it could even be the same day, right?
00:21:58
Speaker
If you kind of like blew up earlier, you can go back to them later and say, oh, I'm so sorry about how I responded earlier.
00:22:04
Speaker
I was, you know, a little bit overwhelmed by what you shared, but I'm ready to listen now.
00:22:09
Speaker
So it could be the same day, it could be a year later, it could be, I'm in my late 40s and my mom recently said something to me that she was kind of taking some ownership and responsibility about something she had done when I was younger.
00:22:20
Speaker
And I was like, okay, even now it feels good, like just to come back and have that repair and that acknowledgement that maybe it wasn't handled the best possible way.
00:22:28
Speaker
So I think that you're right, it's for all of us, we all do it, we all fall into that trap and that it's never too late to go back and make that repair and make those amends.
00:22:37
Speaker
So
00:22:38
Speaker
I think that's great.
00:22:39
Speaker
Is there anything else that we haven't covered that you'd like to share?
00:22:43
Speaker
You know, one thing that might be helpful is I think it's talking about earlier, sometimes we just jump in and react.
00:22:50
Speaker
What I found is helpful is if we
00:22:52
Speaker
As we are helping our kids, you know, develop their own friendship skills, their own relationship skills, you know, we kind of keep a real high level look at this.
00:23:01
Speaker
So if we like pull back from the school playground or the school lunchroom, you know, we're looking down from above at these young people.
00:23:09
Speaker
We've got kids that come from very different homes.
00:23:12
Speaker
You know, we've got some neurotypical kids.
00:23:14
Speaker
We've got neurodiverse kids.
00:23:16
Speaker
We've got kids with all different personalities and skill levels.
00:23:20
Speaker
So it is not surprising that there's social struggles and strife.
00:23:24
Speaker
So I like to look at this as like, this is a training ground, you know, so all we can control is ourselves and do the best we can, know that we're gonna mess up sometimes.
00:23:35
Speaker
And as we are helping our kids navigate this, you know, try not to label and put other kids in boxes.
00:23:42
Speaker
You know, they're all kids.
00:23:44
Speaker
They're all dealing with their own stuff that we don't know about.
00:23:47
Speaker
So just helping our kids see that big picture too, that it's normal to have conflict with other people and we're all doing the best

Balancing Parental Involvement: Finding Middle Ground

00:23:55
Speaker
we can.
00:23:55
Speaker
There are things we can do.
00:23:57
Speaker
There's skills that we can develop in ourselves to try to improve these situations, to try to maybe set some boundaries or solve some conflict in healthy ways or speak up.
00:24:06
Speaker
There's things we can do, but it is perfectly normal to have social struggles and strife.
00:24:11
Speaker
That's kind of part of being a human.
00:24:13
Speaker
So I like to tell that to parents because I think it's easy for parents to get into the nitty gritty of the conflict instead of kind of pulling back, realizing, you know, our role in this is to try to guide our kids in the best way they can so they can develop those skills.
00:24:29
Speaker
I think that's such a great point.
00:24:30
Speaker
And it made me think of the question is, how do you help parents find a healthy middle ground?
00:24:36
Speaker
So what I mean by that is some parents, you know, they're so, you know, the minute one thing goes wrong in the lunchroom or the minute something happens, they're kind of freaking out, you know, reaching out to the guidance counselor or
00:24:49
Speaker
calling the teachers or trying to make it, you know, fix it.
00:24:52
Speaker
And then there's this other extreme appearance that I see that they're all about, oh, their kids will tough it out.
00:24:58
Speaker
They'll figure it out.
00:24:59
Speaker
They're resilient.
00:24:59
Speaker
They'll, right.
00:25:01
Speaker
And so it's like, how do you find like a healthy middle ground where we're guiding and supporting our kids and we're there for them, but we're not intervening every single second, every single problem that happens.
00:25:10
Speaker
That's such a great point because you see both ends of that spectrum.
00:25:14
Speaker
So one is, I think, you know,
00:25:17
Speaker
being generally interested in your kid's life is great.
00:25:21
Speaker
You know, they want to know that you care and that you're validating their experiences.
00:25:26
Speaker
You know, so that takes care of that one end that's like, ah, they're on their own, you know, but just showing interest, asking questions, not getting involved, but just asking questions, showing interest, validating those tough emotions when they're having them.
00:25:39
Speaker
Then on the other side of the spectrum, you know, what I like to share is one of my favorite lessons that I learned is don't dig for pain.
00:25:46
Speaker
You know, so, so kids tend to heal and move on from things much faster than we do as adults.
00:25:53
Speaker
So say our kid has a really tough day with, with a kid.
00:25:57
Speaker
And then the next day we keep asking about it.
00:25:59
Speaker
We keep asking about it and they're, they've long healed from this, but we keep, well, how was so-and-so today?
00:26:04
Speaker
Well, what happened?
00:26:05
Speaker
You know, so we are the ones actually still digging for this.
00:26:08
Speaker
They have moved on.
00:26:10
Speaker
So that's, you know, something I encourage parents to do is
00:26:13
Speaker
don't dig for pain anymore.
00:26:15
Speaker
Like if you had a chance to talk through and validate the emotions of a tough situation, let that go unless, you know, your child brings it up again, you know, so let them take the lead there.
00:26:26
Speaker
We don't have to dig, but we can be there as a sounding board and interested and curious and supportive and empathic.

Conclusion and Book Availability

00:26:33
Speaker
So hopefully that helps to build that healthy balance.
00:26:36
Speaker
That's perfect.
00:26:36
Speaker
I love that.
00:26:37
Speaker
And so tell us your books one more time, and I'm going to go ahead and link them to the episode so that way parents can find them.
00:26:43
Speaker
And can you tell us the titles one more time?
00:26:45
Speaker
Sure.
00:26:45
Speaker
And these, they're all mouthfuls.
00:26:46
Speaker
I apparently like long titles.
00:26:48
Speaker
So the first one is BFF or NRF, which is not really friends.
00:26:53
Speaker
Girls Guide to Happy Friendships.
00:26:55
Speaker
The second one is called Middle School Safety Goggles Advised.
00:27:00
Speaker
That one obviously is really geared towards the middle school years.
00:27:03
Speaker
And then the third one,
00:27:04
Speaker
It's called the phone book.
00:27:07
Speaker
And they are available anywhere books are sold.
00:27:09
Speaker
So you can get them, you know, at target.com or Amazon, or, you know, even your local bookstore can get them in stock.
00:27:15
Speaker
Awesome.
00:27:15
Speaker
Well, Jessica, thank you so much for taking the time today.
00:27:18
Speaker
I've enjoyed our conversation so much.
00:27:20
Speaker
And I just know that the moms out there will definitely be taking your advice and hopefully buying your books and running with it.
00:27:26
Speaker
So thank you again.
00:27:27
Speaker
Thank you.
00:27:28
Speaker
Thank you for having me, Laura.
00:27:29
Speaker
It was great to chat with you.
00:27:30
Speaker
Yes, absolutely.
00:27:32
Speaker
Okay.
00:27:32
Speaker
Thanks.
00:27:33
Speaker
Thank you for listening to the Positively Healthy Mom podcast because there's no manual for the hardest job in the world.
00:27:40
Speaker
Don't forget to subscribe and share with your friends.