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The Queen of Boundaries
22 Plays5 months ago
Welcome to The Positively Healthy Mom Podcast! 🌟 Hi, I’m Laura Ollinger, and today, I’m thrilled to introduce Dana Skaggs—a psychotherapist, coach, podcast host of Phoenix and Flame, and keynote speaker. Dana brings an insightful and relatable approach to a topic that’s crucial for moms: boundaries. Tune in and let’s explore how boundaries can help us nurture ourselves and strengthen our connections! 🎙️✨ I’d love to hear your thoughts—thank you for being part of this community! ❤️
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Introduction
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey moms, it's Laura Olinger.
00:00:02
Speaker
Welcome to the Positively Healthy Mom podcast.
00:00:05
Speaker
Because there's no manual for the hardest job in the world.
00:00:13
Speaker
Hello everyone, welcome to today's episode of the Positively Healthy Mom.
00:00:17
Speaker
Today I'm introducing you to Dana Skaggs, who is a psychotherapist, a coach, a podcast host.
00:00:24
Speaker
Her podcast is called Phoenix and Flame, sounds very interesting.
00:00:27
Speaker
And she's also a keynote speaker.
Understanding Boundaries with Yard Analogy
00:00:29
Speaker
So Dana, I'm so excited to introduce you to my audience because the topic that you're bringing us today is boundaries.
00:00:36
Speaker
And that is just huge for moms to talk about and learn about.
00:00:40
Speaker
So welcome to the show.
00:00:42
Speaker
Thank you very much, Laura.
00:00:43
Speaker
I appreciate it.
00:00:44
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:00:46
Speaker
So I thought what we would do is kind of, why don't we actually just start with, you know, I always like to go like the 101 level, like definition of boundaries.
00:00:55
Speaker
What is boundaries to you?
00:00:57
Speaker
I like to describe boundaries using visual analogies.
00:01:02
Speaker
I like to describe it in terms of yards.
00:01:05
Speaker
So imagine you have a yard in front of you and then there's a fence line, then you have a neighbor.
00:01:10
Speaker
So if you think about your yard has your thoughts, your feelings, and your actions, your opinions are in your yard, which you have a right to all of those, you have a responsibility for those things.
00:01:23
Speaker
Now, across and over the fence line is your neighbor's yard.
00:01:28
Speaker
Your neighbor also has her thoughts, feelings, and actions over there, which are your neighbor's responsibility.
00:01:37
Speaker
And so,
00:01:39
Speaker
there because frequently we get those people inverse.
00:01:42
Speaker
Like rather than paying attention to our own thoughts and conversations,
00:01:50
Speaker
And then we're over there in our neighbor's yard trying to be super involved with trying to get them to feel a certain way about us, trying to get them to like us, trying to keep the peace, all the things which involves someone else's feelings.
00:02:03
Speaker
And so that's kind of like a basic way of explaining what boundaries are and how they work in relationships.
Boundaries, Unmet Needs, and Codependence
00:02:10
Speaker
I love that.
00:02:10
Speaker
I love that really just simple, easy to understand visual.
00:02:14
Speaker
And so why do people, I mean, I know there are a wide variety of reasons, but like, if you could summarize it, like why do people typically cross boundaries?
00:02:27
Speaker
They typically cross boundaries because they're looking to get a need met.
00:02:32
Speaker
They have a fear.
00:02:34
Speaker
Usually it's a fear of abandonment or a fear of rejection.
00:02:38
Speaker
I hear a lot from people that are wanting to people please.
00:02:42
Speaker
They're wanting to keep the peace.
00:02:43
Speaker
Right.
00:02:44
Speaker
Lots of times it's how they were raised.
00:02:46
Speaker
You kind of cross over into enabling and being codependent because they are scared of being abandoned.
00:02:53
Speaker
So they are wanting to try to get the other person to like them.
00:02:58
Speaker
And so they're going to say whatever they feel like they need to say to get approval from the other person so they feel like they can have that connection with them.
00:03:05
Speaker
And so that's one of the main ways that the boundaries gets kind of
00:03:11
Speaker
crossed over and we kind of get confused about how we're supposed to play that out.
00:03:16
Speaker
Another thing that goes along those lines is other people aren't responsible for reading our mind.
00:03:23
Speaker
And so if we have something that is really bothering us, then it's our responsibility to speak it in a respectful way.
00:03:31
Speaker
But most of us are scared to death to do that because we think if I tell this person my truth, if I tell them how I really think or feel about this topic, I'm
00:03:39
Speaker
I just know they're not going to like it.
00:03:41
Speaker
They're going to get mad at me.
00:03:43
Speaker
They're going to yell at me.
00:03:44
Speaker
They're going to, again, abandon me, reject me.
00:03:47
Speaker
And so I'm not going to say any of those things.
00:03:50
Speaker
And so we get stuck with that inside of us and they get upset that the other person doesn't just magically know what we think or feel about a topic.
00:03:57
Speaker
And so it's really very rampant in all areas and personal, professional, all kinds of places.
00:04:04
Speaker
Yeah, that's really interesting because really when that happens, that's an abandonment of your own self.
Facing Rejection and Self-Care in Relationships
00:04:09
Speaker
So, right, like you're fearing abandonment from the other person, but really you're doing it to yourself.
00:04:14
Speaker
So it's just as bad, if not worse, right?
00:04:17
Speaker
That's right.
00:04:17
Speaker
That's right.
00:04:18
Speaker
Because we have a responsibility to our own yard.
00:04:20
Speaker
We have a responsibility to nurture our own yard, what our thoughts are, what our feelings are.
00:04:26
Speaker
And see, when we know that we have a right to whatever we're thinking and feeling,
00:04:31
Speaker
They're not good or bad, right or wrong.
00:04:33
Speaker
They're just thoughts and feelings.
00:04:34
Speaker
And we have a right to them.
00:04:35
Speaker
If someone else doesn't have to understand what we're thinking or feeling, they don't have to accept it.
00:04:42
Speaker
They don't have to approve because quite frankly, it's not in their yard.
00:04:46
Speaker
We're the ones that have to know that.
00:04:49
Speaker
And so when we understand that, we can feel comfortable that we have a right to our own opinions and
00:04:55
Speaker
And our neighbor has a right to their opinions.
00:04:57
Speaker
We don't have to think and feel the same to accept that.
00:05:01
Speaker
But we're the ones that have to accept what's in our own yard first.
00:05:07
Speaker
And what happens or how do you coach your clients when they have a fear of rejection or abandonment or whatever?
00:05:18
Speaker
Like, how do you help them feel safe in themselves of holding those boundaries?
00:05:25
Speaker
Well, we look at the relationship, first of all, and seeing kind of what's going on there.
00:05:29
Speaker
What are the dynamics?
00:05:30
Speaker
And then as they move forward, we have to face what if you are rejected?
00:05:35
Speaker
What if they do?
00:05:36
Speaker
What if you face your truth, you share your truth, and they don't like it?
00:05:41
Speaker
It's like, okay, well, that doesn't feel very good.
00:05:44
Speaker
Well, no, it doesn't.
00:05:46
Speaker
Well, I don't want them to not like me.
00:05:49
Speaker
Well, they might not.
00:05:51
Speaker
You know, we we cannot always assure that everyone is always going to like or approve everything that we think or feel.
00:05:59
Speaker
So are we we going to just try to to cherry pick everything we say to to appease everyone else?
00:06:06
Speaker
Or are we going to like crawl in a hole and not say anything at all?
00:06:09
Speaker
Or are we going to be authentic?
00:06:11
Speaker
If we're going to be authentic, which is honoring of ourselves and that we are the ones that have the responsibility to do that.
00:06:19
Speaker
Like I've said before, there's one person on the planet that's given the responsibility of keeping us together and that's us.
00:06:26
Speaker
And if we don't do that, if we abandon ourselves, as you mentioned earlier, and our wheels start getting wobbly and falling off, then we don't have what we need to help care for the people around us.
00:06:39
Speaker
around us are not the ones responsible for keeping us together.
00:06:43
Speaker
We are.
00:06:43
Speaker
We're the ones that have to be able to do that.
00:06:46
Speaker
So in terms of rejection, we have to face the fact that, yes, sometimes people will criticize.
00:06:53
Speaker
Sometimes people will not like things that we say or do.
00:06:56
Speaker
That is going to happen.
00:06:58
Speaker
It's not if, it's when.
00:07:00
Speaker
And so, okay, what if they don't like you?
00:07:03
Speaker
And someone will say, well, I don't want them not to like me.
00:07:06
Speaker
Well, of course you don't.
00:07:07
Speaker
But what if they don't like you?
00:07:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:10
Speaker
Well, that's going to be uncomfortable.
00:07:11
Speaker
Yes, it is uncomfortable.
00:07:13
Speaker
And?
00:07:14
Speaker
well, I don't want to be uncomfortable.
00:07:16
Speaker
Well, sorry, because being a human, you're going to be uncomfortable sometimes.
00:07:20
Speaker
See, when we learn we can sit with that discomfort, we don't have to run from it.
00:07:25
Speaker
We don't have to try to avoid it.
00:07:27
Speaker
People spend so much effort trying to avoid discomfort, which leads to the feeling, oh, I don't want them to reject me because I'm going to feel abandoned.
00:07:35
Speaker
But truly are you?
00:07:37
Speaker
And if someone leaves you,
00:07:39
Speaker
Because you don't, they don't agree.
00:07:41
Speaker
If they, if they won't hear your no, that's essentially what it is.
00:07:45
Speaker
You don't agree on something.
00:07:46
Speaker
You're, you're saying no to something they want you to say yes to.
00:07:49
Speaker
In essence, if they won't hear your no and they reject you because of that, it might be uncomfortable.
00:07:55
Speaker
But what in fact, who in fact have you lost?
00:07:59
Speaker
Because you haven't lost a true friend.
00:08:02
Speaker
Because a true friend would hear your no.
00:08:04
Speaker
They would hear your authentic feelings.
00:08:07
Speaker
They would hear, they would receive your authentic thoughts and your authentic opinions.
00:08:13
Speaker
And even if they didn't agree with you, that would be okay.
00:08:16
Speaker
They would create space for you.
00:08:19
Speaker
And so if someone rejects you because you don't agree with them,
00:08:23
Speaker
then you have to ask yourself, what exactly have you lost?
00:08:26
Speaker
And maybe that's not necessarily a bad thing.
00:08:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:08:29
Speaker
Oh, my gosh.
00:08:30
Speaker
I think that's so powerful.
00:08:31
Speaker
And especially to teach our teenagers who are, you know, entering into romantic relationships.
00:08:37
Speaker
And a lot of times and.
00:08:40
Speaker
And I see this mostly with girls, but obviously, you know, boys, you know, have have this, you know, same things.
00:08:45
Speaker
But girls are so afraid to have that feeling of rejection or feeling sad that a relationship is over or whatever it might be.
00:08:56
Speaker
And so she does tend to abandon herself.
00:08:59
Speaker
And then I think that question that you posed was that.
00:09:02
Speaker
powerful, which is what exactly are you really losing?
00:09:05
Speaker
Like, are you, you're actually losing in an unhealthy relationship and maybe we should celebrate that.
00:09:10
Speaker
And I know, you know, they're, they would have a hard time kind of accepting that there would be need to be a process with that.
00:09:15
Speaker
But just the idea that it's like, that's the question, what are you really losing in the first place?
00:09:21
Speaker
And you just, like you mentioned earlier, it was a fantastic comment that you made, Laura, is that we cannot abandon ourselves.
00:09:28
Speaker
Because people are so afraid of being abandoned.
00:09:30
Speaker
But I'm like, if you go look in the mirror, that person looking back at you is never going to abandon you.
00:09:36
Speaker
You are always going to be with you.
00:09:38
Speaker
You're never truly going to be alone.
00:09:40
Speaker
That person that's staring back at you, that is who is on your team.
00:09:44
Speaker
We need to get on our own team.
00:09:46
Speaker
So we run around trying to sort of like sell ourselves out to please everybody around us.
00:09:53
Speaker
Then who do we become?
00:09:55
Speaker
We don't even know who we are anymore.
00:09:57
Speaker
And when we're in the teen years, that's really hard because we're trying to figure out who am I, what's important and how do I need to stay included and what do I need to wear?
00:10:07
Speaker
What do I need to say?
00:10:07
Speaker
What do I need to do so that I'll be included in the group?
00:10:11
Speaker
The teen years are very difficult to try to find our footing, but it's a great place to start figuring that out.
00:10:18
Speaker
And if you cannot be your authentic self with someone, then what does that say about the relationship?
00:10:25
Speaker
Yeah, that's really great.
00:10:27
Speaker
So how would you, you know,
00:10:30
Speaker
You're a mother of three kids yourself.
Practical Steps to Establish Boundaries
00:10:32
Speaker
How would you advise or coach a teenager if they really were having their boundaries crossed by someone else and really were having a hard time establishing those boundaries?
00:10:44
Speaker
Because like you said, it's such a tricky time in the first place.
00:10:47
Speaker
So they're just trying to figure out their own identity.
00:10:49
Speaker
And, you know, they don't want to face that loss or rejection or whatever.
00:10:52
Speaker
So what would you do or say?
00:10:55
Speaker
Well, I would say two things.
00:10:57
Speaker
One, start with baby nose.
00:11:01
Speaker
Start with doing something small.
00:11:04
Speaker
For example, let's say you're with a group and they're like, hey, let's all go to this new Japanese place, right?
00:11:12
Speaker
And you hate Japanese food, right?
00:11:15
Speaker
Then you would say, you know what, guys?
00:11:19
Speaker
Why don't we try this Italian place down the road?
00:11:23
Speaker
I hear it's fantastic.
00:11:24
Speaker
I don't really, I'm not a big fan of Japanese food, but the Italian place is great.
00:11:28
Speaker
Maybe y'all can go to the Japanese place when I'm not around.
00:11:30
Speaker
I just don't really like that, but...
00:11:32
Speaker
Here's another alternative.
00:11:34
Speaker
So we start out with smaller no's.
00:11:38
Speaker
Okay.
00:11:39
Speaker
And you try that out.
00:11:40
Speaker
Okay.
00:11:42
Speaker
And also, in addition to starting out with what we call baby nose, it's also trying it out with people that you trust.
00:11:49
Speaker
So you don't go right off the bat to the Mac Daddy, right?
00:11:52
Speaker
Right, right.
00:11:53
Speaker
You don't go to that person that you feel like is really good, the mean girl or the one that really holds all the power, the power at school.
00:12:03
Speaker
You don't want to do that.
00:12:04
Speaker
You want to start out with people that
00:12:06
Speaker
you know, care about you, that you feel comfortable with already.
00:12:10
Speaker
And you start kind of expressing that with them.
00:12:14
Speaker
And a boundaries and essentially you're, you're speaking your truth.
00:12:17
Speaker
And also if you don't want to do something, then you say, I'm not really comfortable doing that, but you offer an alternative.
00:12:24
Speaker
What about doing if we did this instead?
00:12:26
Speaker
And so you do two things.
00:12:28
Speaker
One, when you're doing the baby nose, you're kind of getting used to doing that.
00:12:31
Speaker
And you also try it with people that you're comfortable with that way.
00:12:35
Speaker
You're getting better and better at it.
00:12:37
Speaker
And then when you finally have to set your ground with someone who has more political power at school, you're more comfortable with what you're doing by then.
00:12:48
Speaker
Yeah, I like that.
00:12:49
Speaker
Just kind of working your way up.
00:12:51
Speaker
In fact, that reminds me of what you were saying earlier, which is, you know, we have a hard time as humans really tolerating discomfort.
00:12:58
Speaker
And so what that made me think of in my head was like, you know, it's really like building a muscle over time, just like being able to sit with those feelings and sit with the fact that someone doesn't like me or sit with the fact that
00:13:09
Speaker
I may might have made someone angry.
00:13:11
Speaker
Right.
00:13:11
Speaker
And so like building that up.
00:13:12
Speaker
And so just kind of like that parallels to what you're saying about kind of building this muscle and kind of working your way up with starting with a safe person, practicing that, holding that boundary.
00:13:23
Speaker
And, you know, it can even be done, like you said, in such a nice way, you know, just, hey, Japanese food isn't my thing.
00:13:31
Speaker
I'm not a fan.
00:13:32
Speaker
Right.
00:13:32
Speaker
It's like there's so many ways you could say it.
00:13:34
Speaker
That's just so very neutral.
00:13:36
Speaker
Right.
00:13:36
Speaker
And doesn't cause waves like, you know, you're not having to say, hey, Japanese food stinks like you're not like me.
00:13:42
Speaker
Right.
00:13:43
Speaker
You're just saying it's not my thing.
00:13:45
Speaker
Right.
00:13:45
Speaker
So it's keeping it in your own yard.
00:13:47
Speaker
And then, you know, could we try this place instead?
00:13:49
Speaker
Right.
00:13:49
Speaker
Like, I love how you're giving that framework.
00:13:51
Speaker
Right.
00:13:52
Speaker
for it and then what happens when, I mean, is there any way to help someone who, you know, say you came across an adult woman or a teenager, and again, it's not always women, but because we're talking to women, that's kind of who we're talking about right now, who's really in kind of like stage, you know, stage 10 of like, you know, has never had boundaries and now they're in an abusive relationship,
00:14:20
Speaker
You know, where do you even start when it's gotten that far for that long?
00:14:25
Speaker
Yeah, well, with someone like that, it's helpful for them to seek out a coach or a therapist or someone that they trust, a mentor where they can just begin to tell their story so they don't feel alone.
00:14:35
Speaker
Because usually when someone has been in a relationship that long, they've been manipulated and probably gaslit.
00:14:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:43
Speaker
where they don't understand where they stop and someone else begins.
00:14:47
Speaker
They feel like they don't even have a yard.
00:14:49
Speaker
They feel like their yard is someone else's property.
00:14:53
Speaker
They don't have the right to go out and plant their own flowers or trim their own shrubs or anything like that because someone else is going to tell them,
00:15:00
Speaker
That's not, those aren't the right kind of flowers.
00:15:01
Speaker
Those flowers are ugly.
00:15:03
Speaker
Jerk those flowers up.
00:15:04
Speaker
I want these.
00:15:04
Speaker
So they, and this has happened to them so much with, with bad consequences that they've gotten very gun shy and they've started to believe, wait, I don't have a say-so.
00:15:15
Speaker
I don't, I don't get to say, I don't have a yard.
00:15:18
Speaker
This, this yard, it's almost like your neighbor.
00:15:20
Speaker
If your neighbor was the abuser kind of, and the neighbor has shoved down the fence and
00:15:25
Speaker
and has appropriated your yard into their yard and is controlling their yard and your yard.
00:15:32
Speaker
And you're standing there and it's been going on for quite some time and it's become normalized.
00:15:37
Speaker
You become habituated to it.
00:15:39
Speaker
And so sometimes a woman in that situation going and talking to someone and just starting to just explain what's going on.
00:15:46
Speaker
Here's the dynamic.
00:15:48
Speaker
So she gets an objective party to listen.
00:15:52
Speaker
And then that objective party gets to kind of
00:15:55
Speaker
reflect back and go, gosh, you know, it seems like you don't really have, you don't feel like you have a say-so in what flowers you can plant in your own yard.
00:16:06
Speaker
And so just the person would very gently kind of reflect back so that the person who's been abused for so long has an opportunity for the clouds to sort of part and for them to be able to see that maybe the
00:16:21
Speaker
this isn't what I want to be happening.
00:16:24
Speaker
And they, because when you've been gaslit, you, you don't, you don't believe that your opinion is valid.
Reclaiming Personal Space After Abuse
00:16:33
Speaker
It's all about what the other person feels, what they think goes.
00:16:36
Speaker
And so you have to have another person to come alongside to begin to see the situation.
00:16:41
Speaker
And then slowly you're like, oh, wow.
00:16:46
Speaker
And then the question becomes, now that I have an awareness of what's going on, now that I see that I actually have a yard, but my neighbor has appropriated it for himself, that my neighbor has shoved my fence down,
00:17:00
Speaker
OK, now that I'm aware of that, then you start learning what to do.
00:17:04
Speaker
What do I want to do about that?
00:17:06
Speaker
And so you go out and you start saying, I'm not going to do that.
00:17:10
Speaker
The neighbor says, for example, we're going to go here tonight to have we're going to go to this party tonight.
00:17:17
Speaker
And you really, really, really don't want to go.
00:17:19
Speaker
Then you can begin to say, I'm I don't really feel like going to that party.
00:17:25
Speaker
There's going to be a huge reaction because here's the thing.
00:17:28
Speaker
We train people how to treat us.
00:17:31
Speaker
Right.
00:17:32
Speaker
We train people what to expect from us.
00:17:35
Speaker
And so when we've been in an abusive relationship for quite a while, we've slowly we didn't know it.
00:17:41
Speaker
Right.
00:17:42
Speaker
We didn't do this on purpose.
00:17:43
Speaker
We didn't know.
00:17:44
Speaker
But we've slowly trained this person that they could tell us everything to do from what to wear and
00:17:49
Speaker
to what to eat, to where to go, everything.
00:17:53
Speaker
And so when we start saying, you know, I don't think I want to wear that outfit tonight.
00:17:56
Speaker
I'm going to wear something else.
00:18:00
Speaker
And he doesn't like that.
00:18:01
Speaker
Then he's going to be like, well, what do you mean?
00:18:03
Speaker
So there's going to be pushback.
00:18:05
Speaker
But when you understand that his emotions, his feelings, his behavior is in his yard, and you, number one, did not cause it, his anger, his response, you didn't cause it.
00:18:19
Speaker
You can't control it and you can't cure it.
00:18:23
Speaker
And that's in his yard.
00:18:26
Speaker
Looking at you, he might be talking about you, but his emotions, his opinions are in his yard on the other side of the fence.
00:18:36
Speaker
So that's how you start to begin to sort of find your yard, get your fence up and start learning how to act with appropriate boundaries.
00:18:45
Speaker
It's got to kind of take it slow.
00:18:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:48
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:48
Speaker
I mean, I can imagine if it took that long to, you know, get into that cycle that it takes quite a while to get out of it as well.
Setting Boundaries During Holidays
00:18:56
Speaker
OK, so we are in the holiday season.
00:18:59
Speaker
And what I was thinking of was we're around a lot of family members.
00:19:04
Speaker
around a lot of, you know, friends, a lot of social situations.
00:19:07
Speaker
And of course, like the classic, you know, mother-in-law, you know, imagery comes to mind.
00:19:13
Speaker
And what advice do you have for our listeners about how to hold their boundaries so that they can have the holidays that they want?
00:19:23
Speaker
Um,
00:19:25
Speaker
You know, I think that's it.
00:19:27
Speaker
How would you advise our listeners?
00:19:29
Speaker
Okay.
00:19:30
Speaker
I have one example that comes to mind.
00:19:31
Speaker
It was some conversations that I was recently involved in, and it was a young family, and they wanted to try to have Christmas morning just themselves at their house with their children.
00:19:42
Speaker
But the mother-in-law situation, you know, she had other plans.
00:19:45
Speaker
She'd had years of traditions where other people in the family would all come over, and she was allowed to kind of call the shots.
00:19:52
Speaker
And so they're like, oh, my gosh, well, we want to have Christmas morning just at our at our house.
00:19:56
Speaker
But, you know, we have we feel like we have to do what she has what she said, what she tells us to do.
00:20:03
Speaker
I'm like, no, you don't.
00:20:05
Speaker
Well, she's going to get mad, probably.
00:20:09
Speaker
And like, well, well, the question is, why can't you allow that to happen?
00:20:16
Speaker
you we are responsible for our inaction so we respectfully say i appreciate what you're doing but this christmas we're going to stay at our house in the morning and then we're happy to come over and visit with you all probably about 11 o'clock is when we'll come over so see we're still being proactive we're still saying what we will do and see that is something that people kind of get confused
00:20:40
Speaker
When they hear boundaries, they think, no, no, no, I'm not going to do that.
00:20:43
Speaker
I'm not going to do that.
00:20:44
Speaker
And that's part of it.
00:20:45
Speaker
But what you can flip that around.
00:20:47
Speaker
And instead of saying what you're not going to do, say what you are going to do.
00:20:51
Speaker
I love that.
00:20:52
Speaker
So you're like, mother-in-law, we are so happy.
00:20:56
Speaker
We're going to see you all about 11 o'clock tomorrow.
00:20:59
Speaker
And then she's like, what do you mean 11 o'clock?
00:21:01
Speaker
Everyone else is going to be over here at nine.
00:21:03
Speaker
And you can say, I understand that.
00:21:06
Speaker
And I hope you all have a great time.
00:21:07
Speaker
We'll be happy to see you at 11.
00:21:09
Speaker
And then you're done with the conversation.
00:21:12
Speaker
You don't keep having the conversation.
00:21:14
Speaker
If she goes on and on about it, she says, I can't believe you all don't want to come over here at nine o'clock.
00:21:18
Speaker
Everybody's always come over here at nine o'clock.
00:21:20
Speaker
You can say, I say two phrases.
00:21:21
Speaker
One, I'm sorry you feel that way.
00:21:24
Speaker
I hope you have a nice day.
00:21:28
Speaker
That's awesome.
00:21:29
Speaker
That's great.
00:21:30
Speaker
Right.
00:21:30
Speaker
And so you're being nice.
00:21:32
Speaker
You're being respectful.
00:21:34
Speaker
You're not being disrespectful because we are responsible for our own actions.
00:21:37
Speaker
We don't want to be flying out being hateful because that's on us.
00:21:41
Speaker
We're saying, I understand where you're coming from.
00:21:43
Speaker
This is our choice.
00:21:45
Speaker
And because what happens when someone's used to doing that, they're going to push because they're going to think if I just push enough, if I turn up the flame high enough, I'm going to get them to do what I want them to do.
00:21:57
Speaker
because they're used to having their way.
00:21:59
Speaker
So they're going to start pushing.
00:22:01
Speaker
And so when that happens, you do not engage with that.
00:22:03
Speaker
You say, say once, maybe two times, but don't keep repeating yourself.
00:22:08
Speaker
You've already said it.
00:22:10
Speaker
They've already heard you.
00:22:12
Speaker
If they keep pushing, you say maybe one more time.
00:22:16
Speaker
We're so glad we're going to see you all at 11.
00:22:19
Speaker
We're looking forward to that.
00:22:20
Speaker
I hope you have a great day.
00:22:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:25
Speaker
Don't talk about it anymore.
00:22:27
Speaker
Right, right.
00:22:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:28
Speaker
Don't get sucked into the trap of the drama and the back and forth and, and all that.
00:22:32
Speaker
Well, I think that's fantastic advice.
00:22:34
Speaker
You gave us some great phrases and bullet points of how to use that.
00:22:39
Speaker
So last thing is,
00:22:42
Speaker
You know, I'm always talking to moms of teenagers typically are my audience, but the ages vary.
Modeling Healthy Boundaries for Teens
00:22:48
Speaker
And so what I always want to hammer home every episode is that how we as moms handle ourselves is the model for what our teenagers are watching.
00:22:57
Speaker
Whether we have sons or daughters, they're watching how we handle ourselves.
00:23:01
Speaker
So what would be like kind of a final takeaway as just far as that concept of modeling, how it's helpful to have boundaries as moms so that our kids can learn?
00:23:09
Speaker
Do you have any thoughts?
00:23:11
Speaker
Yes.
00:23:12
Speaker
So they're watching us, like you said.
00:23:15
Speaker
So let's say we're in a group with other women and, you know, another woman kind of wants us to join in on something that we don't want to do.
00:23:25
Speaker
And let's say our daughter or son, they know we don't want to do that.
00:23:29
Speaker
And they're watching.
00:23:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:30
Speaker
How is mom going to handle this?
00:23:32
Speaker
And so we're like, thank you for inviting me.
00:23:35
Speaker
I'm not really interested in doing that this year, but I hope you all have a good time.
00:23:39
Speaker
Right.
00:23:41
Speaker
No.
00:23:42
Speaker
And so that's very kind.
00:23:43
Speaker
That's very respectful.
00:23:45
Speaker
But you're setting the line.
00:23:46
Speaker
So in the pushes.
00:23:48
Speaker
Well, but we want you there.
00:23:50
Speaker
We want to have you there.
00:23:51
Speaker
You've always come.
00:23:52
Speaker
We want you to come.
00:23:53
Speaker
I know you're going to come.
00:23:54
Speaker
And again, one more time and that's it.
00:23:59
Speaker
I understand I've done it in the past.
00:24:01
Speaker
We're just doing something different this year.
00:24:03
Speaker
So I hope you have a great time.
00:24:05
Speaker
I'm not going to do that this year, but I'll see you next time around.
00:24:09
Speaker
And here's what you can do.
00:24:11
Speaker
Two things.
00:24:12
Speaker
You can either change the topic altogether, start something different.
00:24:16
Speaker
It's like or you can ask them a question about themselves.
00:24:20
Speaker
People love to talk about themselves.
00:24:23
Speaker
So if someone is pressing you to join in and do something that you don't want to do, and you've already set your boundary and they're pressing and pressing, and you say respectfully no one more time, and then you say, oh, by the way, how is your aunt doing?
00:24:36
Speaker
She had surgery last week, didn't she?
00:24:41
Speaker
They'll be off to the races.
00:24:42
Speaker
99% of the people will not realize what you've done.
00:24:47
Speaker
kind of just you've like deflected that away from this area where they're trying to push you in to do something.
00:24:53
Speaker
You've said no, you said it a second time, you've reinforced your no respectfully.
00:24:57
Speaker
And then you can ask them a question about themselves or just change the topic altogether and ask them what they think about it.
00:25:04
Speaker
Because like I said, people love to talk about themselves.
00:25:06
Speaker
They love to share their opinions on things.
00:25:09
Speaker
They'll go off to the races and they won't realize what you've done.
00:25:11
Speaker
So then you've modeled for your children how they could go to school and sort of set a boundary and not do something that maybe everyone else is doing, but they're not comfortable.
00:25:21
Speaker
And they can kindly and respectfully say, I appreciate what you I thank you for inviting me.
00:25:27
Speaker
I'm not I don't really want to do that this time.
00:25:29
Speaker
Maybe next time, but I'm not going to do that this time.
00:25:31
Speaker
So you all have a good time.
00:25:33
Speaker
And then they can ask a question.
00:25:35
Speaker
Did you weren't you in a cheerleading tryouts last week?
00:25:37
Speaker
How did that go?
00:25:38
Speaker
Yeah, I love it.
00:25:41
Speaker
I love it.
00:25:41
Speaker
It's a whole just pattern interrupt, like totally losing focus there.
00:25:45
Speaker
OK, if you don't mind, I actually do.
00:25:47
Speaker
This will be my last question, I swear.
Parental Boundary Setting with Children
00:25:50
Speaker
What I also thought of was, what about boundaries in the immediate family?
00:25:55
Speaker
So sometimes moms end up doing too much for their kids and they don't get their kids to take on the correct responsibilities.
00:26:02
Speaker
And then the kid starts begging, mom, you always do my laundry or mom, you always wake me up, whatever it is.
00:26:08
Speaker
How can a mom set boundaries with her own kids?
00:26:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:11
Speaker
That's a fantastic question, Laura, because what happens sometimes is moms don't allow natural consequences to happen because we have to allow our children to reach the pain threshold.
00:26:23
Speaker
The pain threshold for your listeners is before we any of us are willing to do the work of change, the pain of staying the same has to be greater than the pain of change.
00:26:33
Speaker
It's a threshold and none of us are gonna change anything until we reach it.
00:26:36
Speaker
But in order to reach that, we have to reach that level of pain.
00:26:40
Speaker
So for example, let's say you have a child that you have done, you've done his laundry for the longest, but let's say he's like 16, 17 years old now.
00:26:49
Speaker
And you're thinking, you wanna kind of help prepare him so that when he launches off, goes to college or moves out or whatever, that he's prepared, he knows how to do his laundry.
00:26:56
Speaker
And you're like, okay, I've done your laundry and happy to do it, but now I want you to start doing your own laundry.
00:27:02
Speaker
And he's, first of all, you need to be specific.
00:27:04
Speaker
What does that mean?
00:27:04
Speaker
Do your own laundry.
00:27:05
Speaker
Because he's never done it before.
00:27:07
Speaker
You have to have respect that you've done it.
00:27:09
Speaker
You've trained in this situation where he's incompetent in this area.
00:27:13
Speaker
And so we can own that without being, we don't need to feel bad about that.
00:27:16
Speaker
We have grace for ourself.
00:27:18
Speaker
We just own it, right?
00:27:19
Speaker
No judging, just own it.
00:27:21
Speaker
And so then we're like, okay, I want you
00:27:24
Speaker
We're going to give you your own laundry basket and your day is going to be Wednesday.
00:27:29
Speaker
You need to get all of your laundry in the wash and through the dryer, have all your clothes out of the washer and out of the dryer by eight o'clock on say Wednesday night.
00:27:39
Speaker
Very specific.
00:27:40
Speaker
So you say, and by the way,
00:27:43
Speaker
If you don't have your clothes out of the washer and the dryer by eight o'clock on Wednesday night, then whatever's still in there, I'm going to take it all and I'm going to put it in a bag and it's going to go in the spare room and you're not going to get it for a week.
00:28:00
Speaker
And of course, that would just be each person could just decide on their own.
00:28:03
Speaker
But let me tell you, whatever consequence that you come up with.
00:28:07
Speaker
you're going to have to apply because they're not going to believe you.
00:28:12
Speaker
So spend some time on what you think an appropriate consequence would be
00:28:18
Speaker
And maybe talk to your partner about that.
00:28:21
Speaker
So you're in agreement, all right?
00:28:23
Speaker
And then know that whatever consequence that you set, you're gonna have to apply that.
00:28:28
Speaker
And then once you do that, you're training your child, okay, this is what's gonna happen.
00:28:34
Speaker
So you set them up to succeed.
00:28:36
Speaker
You try to help them as much as you can.
00:28:38
Speaker
Then you're like, okay, now this is you doing it.
00:28:41
Speaker
Here's the detergent.
00:28:42
Speaker
Here's the directions.
00:28:44
Speaker
Do you have any other questions?
00:28:45
Speaker
Do you need any other help at all?
00:28:47
Speaker
And he has an opportunity to ask, to feel like you've helped him.
00:28:51
Speaker
And then, okay, there you go.
00:28:53
Speaker
Yes.
00:28:54
Speaker
But you have to be able to let the natural consequences fall.
00:28:58
Speaker
Right.
00:28:59
Speaker
Otherwise you're not holding that boundary.
00:29:01
Speaker
Exactly.
00:29:01
Speaker
Which then it's like the whole thing was a big old waste.
00:29:04
Speaker
So that's the whole point.
00:29:05
Speaker
So that is awesome.
00:29:07
Speaker
I love exactly what you said.
00:29:08
Speaker
It's textbook really.
00:29:10
Speaker
So, okay, Dana, thank you so much for your time.
00:29:13
Speaker
Where can people find you going forward?
Resources for Further Help
00:29:16
Speaker
Basically, they can go to Dana Skaggs, D-A-N-A-S-K-A-G-G-S dot com.
00:29:22
Speaker
And if they want to take a free boundaries quiz to find out if they have boundary issues, maybe they do, maybe they don't.
00:29:28
Speaker
They're just kind of wondering.
00:29:30
Speaker
There's this totally free quiz that you can take that will give you a score.
00:29:32
Speaker
It'll give you all kinds of wonderful feedback and practical tips to help in those areas of boundaries.
00:29:38
Speaker
And then if they want to take, I've got a couple of questions.
00:29:41
Speaker
self courses that they can take.
00:29:43
Speaker
And there's other courses in line, there's coaching.
00:29:45
Speaker
So however it is that they decide they might need some help, I can come alongside and help them.
00:29:50
Speaker
That's awesome.
00:29:50
Speaker
Well, it sounds like you have some amazing resources available.
00:29:53
Speaker
So Dana, again, thank you.
00:29:55
Speaker
You're the queen of boundaries.
00:29:56
Speaker
We so appreciate your time and take care.
00:29:58
Speaker
Thank you, Laura, so much.
00:30:03
Speaker
Thank you for listening to the Positively Healthy Mom podcast because there's no manual for the hardest job in the world.
00:30:10
Speaker
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