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Hoedown Showdown: Final Thoughts
47 Plays2 days ago
We're wrapping up our Hoedown Showdown! Holly, Erin, and Ingrid all share their Yee Haws and Hell Naws from this project, talk about their favorite microtropes, and share recommendations of other Western Romances.
Full show notes at smutreport.com/podcast.
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Transcript
Introduction and Episode Overview
00:00:00
Speaker
The strongest one that I have, hell ya or ni ha. Hell not. What the heck just happened? Hell. Okay. Na na na na Smut Report!
00:00:11
Speaker
Hi everybody. Welcome back to the Smut Report podcast. I'm Holly. I'm Ingrid. And I'm Erin. And today we are wrapping up our hoedown showdown.
00:00:22
Speaker
Woohoo! no i you ah holly who it's yeah ah yeah right ah and so we're just gonna talk a little bit about how this went for us and what we liked and what we think western romances are doing historical western romances because as you guys probably realized we read zero contemporary westerns because that's like a whole different thing maybe we'll tackle in the future but maybe not we'll see
00:00:55
Speaker
We might be too busy reading about
Opinions on 'Marrying the McBride' and 'Heart in Hand'
00:00:57
Speaker
pirates. Oh, yes. I am so excited. going to take the lead on that one. it's gonna be It's going to be a wild ride.
00:01:07
Speaker
Yeah, it is. I'm so excited. So, guys, let's talk about these books we read. Did we have any eehaw's? Did we have any hell-naw's? What are we thinking? Well, the strongest one that I have, Hell Nah or Yeehaw, is marrying the McBride one.
00:01:25
Speaker
Oh. Yeah. For both? No, which just Hell Nah. Oh, okay. Really. Okay. Tell me why. Well, not I mean, no, that's not true. It's tied. It's very solidly tied with heart and hand for me.
00:01:40
Speaker
Strong hell no's here. Strong hell no's for those two. And, you know, like McBride was slightly more neutral, probably because my disagreements with it were more plot based, like technical issues.
00:01:52
Speaker
Whereas with Heart in Hand, it was solidly relationship based. No, thank you very much. That was me for that one. So those are my
Critique of 'Touch of Fire' and 'Night on the Texas Plains'
00:02:00
Speaker
hell no's. here That's funny because so my Hellnaws were The Touch of Fire Linda Howard and Night on the Texas Plains by Linda Brode because I'm just like, what?
00:02:12
Speaker
Like, I love Bonkers, but both of these i was just like, oh, I have to say that they were all kind of grouped very closely for me. And I really did think about having Touch of Fire be my number one.
00:02:25
Speaker
Number one Hellnaw? Yeah, but the other two all of them had big things I didn't like, but the those two also had little things that I didn't like, so I gave them a higher weight. Fair.
00:02:36
Speaker
Yeah. You know, I mean, for me, it was like the i rampant Confederate nonsense and the plot Mop-a-tree. I'm just like, I can't, I can't, I can't deal with these things. You know, and, and the maybe worst sex scene of all time.
00:02:54
Speaker
Oh, true. i don't know that there's a maybe qualifier in there at all. I mean, I, when I was looking at the list, cause you know, I have the memory of a colander and The only thing I remembered from Touch of Fire, I couldn't even remember that she was a doctor, but I was like, oh, that poor thing and that terrible sex.
00:03:12
Speaker
Yes. So I think that, Holly, you definitely solid agree on those.
Erin's Agreement on Critiques
00:03:17
Speaker
Yeah. Erin, what about you? What do you think? Got any hell gnaws? Well, when Ingrid said marrying off Morgan McBride and Heart in Hand, I was like, yeah.
00:03:24
Speaker
But when Holly said ah Touch of Fire, I was like, yeah. Yeah.
00:03:30
Speaker
ah So I think my Hellnaws, where are we starting with the Hellnaws? I guess we could end on a positive note, right? yeah Absolutely. My Hellnaws are probably The Touch of Fire by Linda Howard and Heart in Hand by Rebel Carter because The Touch of Fire was just like, what the fuck?
00:03:48
Speaker
It was kind of like being hit with something, wasn't it? Yeah. I mean, on the one hand, a narrative, I think it was constructed really well, but I also cannot get past basically everything that actually happened in that book and the rampant Confederate nonsense. Like when Holly said it was a Jefferson Davis apology to her, I was like, yeah, that's what it was. best description. i mean, literally.
00:04:12
Speaker
Heart in hand, I would say, I mean, on the one hand, the story was just like entirely rage making for me. i was just constantly like, also, what the fuck but for different reasons but I don't think it even counts as a western you can't plop a story in a setting and call it ah yeah and call it what it is without also including the components of setting that make it like validated narrative like and that just didn't happen here I would have DNF'd it if it weren't a buddy read.
00:04:46
Speaker
It was just...
Setting Authenticity in Westerns
00:04:48
Speaker
It kind of reminds me of, there was a book that you read, or one of you read, up that was like set in Baltimore. i mean, Baltimore has a pretty distinctive setting, right? I mean, if you've spent time in Baltimore, there's a vibe, right? And yeah there's little quirks and stuff that you just can't omit if it's a Baltimore book.
00:05:04
Speaker
And it literally could have been any large mid-Atlantic city. there was no There was none of the culture. And it's like off-putting. And so I think it's that kind of is the same vibe, the thing that I'm hearing with you. And if you if you're going to write a story and it's going to take place in a Western and it's going to be set up like a Western, but you have none of the qualities, it can ruin the book because you're like, no, that's not what this place is like.
00:05:25
Speaker
Right. Like if you want to just be in like a soulless mid-Atlantic city, like just set it in D.C. instead. Right? I mean...
00:05:38
Speaker
and Do I lie? do I lie, Aaron? Not really. you don't lie, know no. No, it's just one of those things where I think that, yeah, you got to do your research. This one was, it was underdeveloped. Let's just say that. Yeah. So yeah we have, so let's see here. So Touch of Fire got some not knocked off some points.
00:05:57
Speaker
You said, Holly, was it Texas? Which one was the other one? Oh, I also said Night on the Texas Plains because I was just like. Well, isn't that the. No, that was the Linda Brodino. That's the one where she kills her husband. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And then she... That one was ridiculous.
00:06:12
Speaker
And then there's like the baby that he wins in the card game. Oh, the plop-up. Yes, yes. That one was totally ridiculous. I agree. But I'm going to be honest. I had fun with it because I was just like, this is all the things. She just threw all the things in there. And it's ridiculous.
00:06:26
Speaker
And I'm kind of having fun with the ride. yeah it was like it was very caricature-ish. It was very caricature-ish. And so, yeah you know... If you can kind of roll with it, I could see it being fine, but I could also see it being really annoying.
00:06:40
Speaker
I land a little bit more on the annoying side. We'll see.
Issues with 'Marrying Off Morgan McBride'
00:06:45
Speaker
Like, this how I feel about marrying off Morgan McBride is like, like, okay, Ingrid, I can see why. yeah really And especially i feel like I liked it less after we talked about it.
00:06:56
Speaker
Because for me, I'm just like, all right, this is silly. And I'm along for the ride on this one. Well, you really liked that the plot map, but then that one was a really good plot map. It was not a plot map. she wasn't a plot map. It was like an actual character. yeah right but And it really enriched the story, which may have kind of saved, you know, yeah plot-wise it was good.
00:07:16
Speaker
For me, is so the reason I was agreeing with Ingrid on marrying off Morgan Bride is because the ro that the romance was just like, what? but Like they weren't together at all.
00:07:26
Speaker
The romance was really not good. Dead on, Erin. the relationship was not good. and Whenever you end a book having kind so feeling like, oh, I wish I had a business card for a premarital counselor for you guys, ah that's not a good sign.
00:07:40
Speaker
but So I didn't like that one. And I thought there was a lot of plot holes in that one as well. Like that she had all these restaurateur talents. But yeah, it just... Lordy. Never mind. I could get into it, but I'm not going to because we already litigated that one in week three. We litigate that one.
00:07:55
Speaker
so ah but So I'm just trying to... So we have eight books
Conclusion on Book Critiques
00:07:59
Speaker
here. So Touch of Fire was no-go. Night on the Texas Plains was no-go. Marrying Off Morgan but McBride was no-go. And Heart in Hand was no-go. But you know what?
00:08:08
Speaker
Maybe someone will think one of them's a yeehaw. We don't know. Oh, absolutely. We should share yeehaws. I mean, really, let's not relitigate Heart in Hand because no can't if we spent a full hour...
00:08:19
Speaker
Yeah, i don't no, no, I don't want to do that. So, Erin, when you give your yeehaw, if you said yeehaw, I wouldn't be sad about it, but did you have any yeehaws? I had one very solid yeehaw, and that would be Silver Lining by Maggie Osborne. Like, it was so intense. And I was like, my gosh, what's going to happen?
00:08:42
Speaker
Like, this is so messy. But it was, I think, technically, narratively, was such a good book. i Did I like what was happening to Louise?
00:08:55
Speaker
No, but I wasn't really supposed to. like Did I like the excusing the fact that she's doing all of the work, both the quote women's work and her husband's work because he's a ding dong and broke his arm?
00:09:07
Speaker
No, but like i think it was a very well-constructed book that was worth reading even now. ah Okay, Holly, again, I wouldn't be sad if you did throw a little yee-haw in.
00:09:20
Speaker
Oh, you're saying, yee-haw! That's what I was looking for. That was very enthusiastic yee-haw. Okay, so I mean, I agree with Silver Lining is just like such a compelling read.
Praise for 'Silver Lining' and 'Texas Destiny'
00:09:32
Speaker
yeah and for me texas destiny was a yeehaw like you guys knew that was coming like i know a aaron aaron read it longest road trip in history what is happening and i'm just like a single tear my god I'm having feelings and I went back and looked at the review I wrote of the second book in the trilogy Texas Glory and my overall note is useful for when you want a nice cathartic sob fest
00:10:09
Speaker
oh And Holly loves nice cathartic sob fests. love nice cathartic sob fests. Even when I know, and think maybe even especially when I know that I'm just being a ridiculous human being. you Emotionally manipulated. There are a lot of ways I would describe you, Holly, and ridiculous human being is not one of them, but I would say that you are fabulous.
00:10:32
Speaker
Thank You only cry for the most fabulous reasons. so and Yeah. like And this one counts for you. i could The second I read it, I was like, oh, yep, no, I get it. This is a Holly special.
00:10:45
Speaker
i do you have any other ones, Holly? Just those two? would say those two are probably my top two. Yeah. All right. Well, my yeehaws were the first one that came to mind was Silver Lining.
Western Authenticity in 'Silver Lining'
00:10:57
Speaker
I remember, i mean, we we messaged about it. I was so frustrated and angsty about the whole first half of the book. But the thing is, is it has it it has such a Western feel to it It's gritty, yeah but right?
00:11:12
Speaker
The characters are just like deeply, deeply Western. And I don't know how, but the way that as a reader, your opinion starts to shift about the characters lines right up with how the characters views of each other are shifting in the book.
00:11:28
Speaker
So I just, I have to say, I thought it was really well written. Like it was, it worked for me. And then I kind of took it a different way than you guys did. And I kind of ended up looking at like classic and then twist on a classic. So, cause otherwise it was kind of hard for me to sort out my feelings about everything. So Silver Lining was the front runner and it was the classic Western for me.
00:11:48
Speaker
They Ain't Proper for me was actually really enjoyable. I liked it. I thought it took a lot of the themes from Westerns and I love the way that it kind of infused it with kind of more of a modern feel and it ah played with some fun things that I really enjoyed. So I actually really liked They Ain't Proper a lot too.
00:12:04
Speaker
right. Even with the general sentiment that it could have used a better dev edit, it was still... Yeah. So Silver Lining was easy for me because I could list out all the reasons why I thought it was well-written and it was a good Western. But also there's this like special little Ingrid component because my brain is a colander. And if it's even remotely not fantastic, it just falls right through the holes and it's gone forever.
00:12:26
Speaker
And this one, I just know I'm going to remember this book. And so for me, that's kind of like, all right, it's sticky. i could probably just think about it. This being proper. Yes, they proper was sticky for me. It's stuck in my brain.
00:12:37
Speaker
i can tell I'm going to think about it down the line. So there is something about it that just for me, it worked. So despite its flaws, I liked it. That's cool. Yeah, I just did.
00:12:48
Speaker
I like that for us. Sometimes we don't have to have reasons. Sometimes we can just like things because we can't because we do. You know what i mean? That's true. That's
Microtropes in Historical Westerns
00:12:54
Speaker
how I feel about it. All right. So we've talked a lot about microtropes, right?
00:12:59
Speaker
And we we came up with a whole list of microtropes. And I'm going to try to figure out a way to like show them in a cool way visually. On the show notes. Diagram. I don't know. It might just be like a list. Who knows?
00:13:14
Speaker
But anyway, so we we came up with our whole list of microtropes. Should we talk about maybe not our favorites, but the ones that we've identified that we just like really want to see in a Western, one that like makes a historical Western a Western, right? That like makes the genre what it is.
00:13:32
Speaker
So it's like it turns it from putting on any old pair of pants to putting on your favorite Western jeans your denim these are the ones it feels right it just feels right when these things are in there yeah yeah I don't know all right I before we started and we were trying to figure out what to do Ingrid was like why are you frowning it was like because I'm trying to figure out how to put these together in my brain in a cohesive way but so I'll try to articulate my thoughts first shall we yeah so i think we touched on this a little bit last time and i haven't finished editing that so we'll see if it ends up in the final cut but i think all of the microtropes surrounding work and housekeeping are important and what work it is right so
00:14:24
Speaker
Yeah.
Midwest Influence on Western Narratives
00:14:25
Speaker
cooking like i don't just want to see you' still like ah kick and morgan mcbride i was like okay but like the pie just feel so for me home but You know, like, not that, because Ingrid and I grew up in the Midwest, and, like, pie is a whole thing. And pie is a whole thing. Very much.
00:14:47
Speaker
Going back in our heritage, where it was like, you know, our mom would talk about, oh, yeah, grandma just threw together a pie on the farm. Yes, our family has a family farm.
00:15:00
Speaker
And it has the seasonal fruit. And it was easy to do. And she just did it, you know? put through it together and yeah that's funny my mom is not from like i guess my mom's from much further east in the midwest and her story is about making pie with her grandma or a little or like you know it's fine it's a cup a handful of flour and a handful of sugar and you just make the pie and my mom's not how recipes work our but our our family we have stories like you know in cartoons where it's like pies cooling on the windowsill we have stories like that where it's like
00:15:33
Speaker
In the midst of labor, like there's this, you couldn't take the pie stories that like that we grew up with and just put it in in any other house in the country. It has to be in in the it on the prairie.
00:15:44
Speaker
Yeah. Right. That's just what it is, you know? Anyway. So that, the flower, the coffee. i was just talking to my husband about this because we were in we were in England. And the coffee that we would get was the more European style of coffee. And you'll see articles about this periodically about how like Americans don't appreciate coffee the right way.
00:16:06
Speaker
Kind of a thing like, oh, we, you know, fill in European country, know how to sit down and enjoy our cup of espresso or whatever it is. Right. And I think these books and as Holly described, coffee replacing tea as far back as the revolution, like we have a different culture of coffee.
00:16:28
Speaker
It is our hot beverage. Right. And so having a mug, and I think that was illustrated in Silver Lining, like having the mug of coffee when you come in from the cold, it's not something you sit and enjoy. It's your warm up beverage. you know It's your kick of caffeine. It's what keeps you going during the day.
00:16:48
Speaker
So it's not necessarily Americans not appreciating coffee the right way. And maybe to a certain extent, we don't. We get our fancy $8 venti whatevers and just like suck them down. Yeah.
00:17:01
Speaker
But I think we have a very different culture around coffee and I think that is illustrated here. So that component of it, like having that down a home approach to getting your hot beverage after coming in from your work.
00:17:15
Speaker
is very setting appropriate. I think the isolationism, we don't really get into that a lot in our microtropes, but stuff like the train only goes so far, the emergency rescue where the, you know, we got to suck out the venom ourselves because there's nothing else to do.
00:17:32
Speaker
The creepy crawlies that are just like out in nature because you're just out in nature. Like all of that is very setting creative. So I think these are the components that really have a sense of place and make the narrative feel like a Western.
00:17:52
Speaker
A Western. Could you do me a favor, though? could Could you list them, just list them off really quick again? Just like bullet them out? The ones that would be inclusive of like household maintenance specific to this time and place would be like the chores, the getting clean, the is it dirt or is it tan?
Household Elements as Western Tropes
00:18:09
Speaker
So, but labor, like you're thinking of work. The work in the house. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Like aprons, coffee, baking bread. yeah And then in terms of the isolationism, I mean, even maybe to an extent cooking over a fire, but I think the train tickets or the train only goes so far Or the huddle together to preserve our body warmth. The creepy crawl.
00:18:33
Speaker
I like how Ingrid said it in the first one. She talks. You talk like our grandpa. Dad's dad. on Creepy. The creepy crawl is going to get you. And like the emergency rescue, like those things really offer a sense of place as well.
00:18:49
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know if you know this, Holly, but Erin and I are descended from cattle cattle buyer. Okay. didn't know that. Yeah. Nice. there is something. i I didn't think about it, Erin, until today. And then I was like, oh, that's... So, like, some of this stuff, I'm just like, that's right. That's wrong. This is a Western. This fits. But we didn't grow up, like, in the Wild West. But I guess that maybe that's something with that. I don't know. Anyway. I think there's definitely... I mean, every kid...
00:19:16
Speaker
in what is the elementary school later elementary school gets state history education right like there's a component of state history education and so from where we grew up there's a lot of learning about the prairie or our field trips would be like we're going to take a field trip to a one-room schoolhouse yeah Yeah, see, yeah and me, I grew up outside of Baltimore. And so my field trips are to like Fort McHenry, Monticello. It's like 100%, 13 colonies, American Revolution, but like not those nonsense people up in Boston. We don't like them.
00:19:52
Speaker
yeah
00:19:55
Speaker
I mean, yeah, it was not, i I was in Maryland, but it was like, there was a lot of focus on like the Virginia stuff. Yeah. Going to Williamsburg. and Yeah. Yeah. yeah It's a very different vibe. Very different kind of vibe. Yeah.
00:20:09
Speaker
Holly. Okay. What what are yours? Well, okay. So. Well, okay. And I'm curious because this is Holly's jam. Like it's interesting that Holly grew up here and we grew up out there.
00:20:21
Speaker
and Maybe that's why. do you remember in one of them where we were talking about i don't remember we were talking about, but it was one of those things where, see, and I think it might've been one of the ones where I had to cut it out actually when were talking about tics and And there was one part where I was like, I was like, oh, I pictured soft, fluffy grass. And Erin was like, you grew up on a farm. Like, we had to do t-checks all the time. Like, what are you talking about? But maybe it's that she was able to romanticize it more than we were. Yeah. You guys are talking about, like, growing up in a house with without indoor plumbing. With a wood stove and, yeah, an outhouse.
00:20:52
Speaker
yeah Right. With an outhouse and, like, reality of that. Yeah, it's not glamorous. mean, my parents house has a wood stove. But it's kind of like a glamorous wood stove. um Ours is so everything will freeze if you don't restock it at two o'clock in the morning wood stove. Anyway.
00:21:08
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. So I think, I mean, I absolutely agree with Erin about the chores thing, but I think for me, I want to start with emergency rescue because I think a lot of the fun of Westerns for me is not just the isolation where you get these two people together, but also they tend to be high
Appeal of High Stakes in Westerns
00:21:30
Speaker
stakes narratives.
00:21:30
Speaker
Yeah. No one, no one's going to save you. There's no one here to save you. Right. yes And this isn't a micro trope, but like, there's a lot of road trips. There's a lot of, you know, we're like on the lam, we're outside of the law. And so we we're relying on only each other.
00:21:46
Speaker
And I think the emergency rescue really encapsulates that. where we have to suck out the venom or I have to pull you out of the river or... take out the bullet. Yeah, or cut out the bullet. Like ah we talked about like the bullet, cutting out the bullet or the bullet going through, like all of these things.
00:22:01
Speaker
So I think for me, that's like a big part of the fun of the Western. Even if it's, you know, going back to te Texas Destiny, like it's kind of a low stakes road trip, right? They're just kind of like crossing the plains. Yeah.
00:22:14
Speaker
traveling from point a to point b and they're not being hunted or anything right but they still have to deal with the stuff but maybe you know maybe this comes from the fact that i played oregon trail a lot like yeah why yeah adventure rafted down the river dysentery there is no dysentery in any of these books no unfortunately yeah yeah Let's see.
00:22:41
Speaker
Okay. And i I do, I feel like the like apologies to a woman for swearing or women as civilizing force. Like it's so gross. yeah And I know it's so gross and so gender essentialist.
00:22:53
Speaker
But it's part of this. But it is a ah component. It's very telling. It's a big component. And yeah. But I mean, look how they turn that on its head in that ain't proper. That's true.
00:23:05
Speaker
So you know what I mean? Like there are ways to play with some of these things. And it'll be interesting to see what authors do with this because obviously it's quintessential if it was present in that book.
00:23:15
Speaker
Do you know what i mean? That's kind of my thought is there's a reason for that. like I think it ties into, and this is why I'm saying infographic. I think that The apologies to women for swearing ties into that you're on your own, the isolation thing, because they have to police themselves. And so it's like a sign that in an area where you don't have to police yourself, the good ones will apologize for their wildness. Right. will like Because we'll step up to the occasion of ye civility.
00:23:43
Speaker
Right, because out here, it's nose to the grindstone, hard work, danger everywhere. So a lot of people just throw that civility out. So the good ones don't. So I think that that's, it ties into that larger, you know, and I totally understand the validity to that part of it.
00:23:58
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, so I guess I feel like what I'm saying is very similar to what Erin's saying in terms of like the isolation, just with like additional stakes.
Balance of Western Elements and Relationships
00:24:08
Speaker
Got it.
00:24:09
Speaker
Got Yeah. i do I also do like, I built that house myself. I know. Isn't that a good one? know. I had a really hard time with this because i don't know if this is going to be a surprise to anyone who's listened to the other ones.
00:24:21
Speaker
The microtropes was my gosh darn favorite thing about this whole flipping bracket. And I hope we do it every single bracket from here on out. I loved it. Loved it. Talking about the microtropes. It was fun.
00:24:32
Speaker
yeah Identifying them, being like, oop, it's like, honest to God, guys, it's like playing book reviewer bingo. And I, it gamifies like reading eight books in a month about, others it just, I, it scratched an itch. I had no idea that I even had, I loved it.
00:24:49
Speaker
So anyway, I approached the microtropes a little bit differently, I guess. I think what you guys both did is you looked at how the smaller ones feed into like bigger themes that aren't critical. And I, that's like very mature and intellectual of you both. Yeah.
00:25:02
Speaker
A plus. I just did. i like that. So what do you like, Ingrid? I like, so I said chores and labor. okay i said coffee and bacon.
00:25:15
Speaker
kind yeah And i don't know why, guys, dusty clothes. ah But after you guys started getting getting intellectual, I decided I would also pretend to be intellectual. And so this is what I did was this.
00:25:28
Speaker
I do think, like I said in one of the other podcasts, that some of these things end up representing, i think we like them because they represent, because this these are romances, right? These aren't just Westerns. Because in other Westerns, it's like law and order Westerns, or it's like, you know.
00:25:43
Speaker
So these are romance Westerns. And I think some of the features of these I like, I like, honestly, I just like them. But you could say I like them also because I think that they symbolize steps in the relationship. So I like the chores and labor because it's like, it kind of,
00:25:58
Speaker
highlights the work that we put into the relationships right so we like to see them doing this work because it shows that you know oh good they know how to work they're going to work at their relationships coffee and bacon and and ingrid sorry it no you're good to jump into that and they make it very explicit oh yeah of these books they're like flat out good woman good woman does chores yep Does a good man do chores?
Western Tropes Symbolizing Relationship Dynamics
00:26:18
Speaker
It's less explicit, but... A good man does chores to maintain the ranch. You gotta maintain... Oh, he's such a hard worker. He gets up so early. They have separate chores, but I think so. Okay, sorry. Go ahead, Ingrid. No, you're good.
00:26:30
Speaker
Coffee and bacon, moments of pleasure.
00:26:34
Speaker
And intimacy. Yes. And intimacy, intimacy moments of pleasure. That's, that's breakfast usually in a one room house, right. Or over a fire. So it's these moments of little moments of like weirdly intimate pleasure and it's coffee and bacon guys.
00:26:46
Speaker
There are no nether regions even being exposed. And I like that part. And then the dusty clothes, for some reason, it always makes you think something happened before I met you, right? Like when you got here, you weren't pure and clean, like in these debutante books where they're all white And these ones, when they meet, they have these dusty clothes. and It's like, oh, something happened to you. Where'd you come from? You know what i mean? It's like you're in the West and and everyone has a past.
00:27:09
Speaker
yeah ha Now I pulled that right on my butt, but it works. But you're right. You're in the West and everyone has a past. Hang on. I got to look at the list.
00:27:20
Speaker
Yep. yeah yep yeah Except for heart and hand, which we've decided isn't a Western. Doesn't count. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think that that's why for me, when when there's none of those things, it's not like I'm super disappointed, but when they all line up and they hit, I think that's why they feel more romantic to me because I'm like, oh, look, they're eating bacon and having coffee together in the morning. And I just love it.
00:27:43
Speaker
love love it. love it So... Anyway. hu yeah You know, it's interesting you talking about them eating coffee and bacon for breakfast. Like, I feel like just thinking about like Regency romances and the breakfast scenes there, they're so different.
00:27:57
Speaker
They're so so different. They're usually really tense.
Cultural Differences in Western and Regency Breakfasts
00:28:01
Speaker
they're not intimate it usually if it's on page at all it's going to be something along the lines of like we had to go down to breakfast the servants are serving and dress probably hipper there's from the somo yeah there's some degree of like somebody doing something that ah somebody else doesn't like right like either you're feckless brother is costing you money again or your mother-in-law is harping on you or whatever but it's not like we we had our wedding night last night and now things are awkward and awkward as table it's forced intimacy yeah ah even in a group settings it's like you're not in your natural state you're not
00:28:44
Speaker
coming together because you want to or because, you know, it's not a moment of peace and intimacy. It's performative in a lot of ways. Well, I don't even know if like, okay, thinking of um Silver Lining by Maggie Osborne, they're both making the best of their situation.
00:29:02
Speaker
wouldn't say that they necessarily want to be there, but like breakfast is the next thing that needs to happen. And they're going to do it together because they're on this journey together. Yeah. That's what I think. It's it's a restful moment of peace. It almost always in these books, it just feels like even when it's ah awkward, there's things that need to be done. The hard work is going to come, but this is a moment of peace. Even if it's a little awkward, we're taking care of ourselves and having so a nice coffee and some nice breakfast and we're going to whatever.
00:29:28
Speaker
And maybe that's why now I'm thinking of heart and hand in the scene where he's having breakfast with the other woman and like why that is such That's a really good point. trail but That makes me think that maybe she did know what she was doing with the Western thing. but A clock is always right twice a day, Holly. Yeah, you're right.
00:29:45
Speaker
Sorry, that was snarky and rude. A broken clock is right. Thank you, Erin. You're welcome. Anyway, the point is microtropes. I loved them. I can't wait to do more of them.
00:29:56
Speaker
The likelihood of me trying to make some infographics and then force Erin and Holly to... make a spot for them to live publicly is it's not low. Great. I look forward to seeing your infographics.
00:30:07
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. We focused on only historical Westerns and I feel like our conversation is regardless of whether it was just something we liked, Ingrid, or something that illustrated what's important to the setting.
00:30:26
Speaker
and There are elements here that give us a ah sense of time and place that become ah an essential component of the historical Western, right?
Historical vs. Contemporary Westerns
00:30:35
Speaker
Like that's ah ultimately where we're going.
00:30:39
Speaker
here What makes this Western as opposed to something else? and here Well, obviously the time period and the and the location. that's just let's That's the hard boundary, right?
00:30:53
Speaker
But as with hard in hand, you can't just plop somebody in Montana. Correct. And be like, it's a Western. um Yes, but i'm gonna that's the low-hanging fruit that I'm throwing out here is, I think, that time and place. Although...
00:31:08
Speaker
Yeah, because my question is, could you have um modern Western that would but feel the same? So as I was looking through my... ah There is actually a cowboy tag. I don't have a Westerns tag because Westerns are not my cup of tea as they are Holly's and I guess Ingrid's for a hot second a few years ago.
00:31:28
Speaker
had a... She had a little hyper fixation moment. I had a deep dive, yeah. But I did read Calhoun by Diana Palmer, which is an 80s.
00:31:40
Speaker
think it was originally published as like an 80s category. And they have a ranch in Texas and it's got the like, we're going to drive you know drive down to Dallas for the weekend.
00:31:52
Speaker
kind of a you know like they're isolated but they have their little town going on and it has a lot of similar sense of place elements where it's you know they run a ranch even though the heroine is hired on as a secretary slash she's there like a it was very complicated it was an age gap romance their parents were supposed to get married but then they died but the older men like adopted her anyway but she's not actually related to them. And the older brother is really just like an older brother, but the younger brother Calhoun is like fighting his feelings because she's too young. And she's like, but I want my man.
00:32:32
Speaker
And it's really something. And it was a fun read, but it had all the, it had a lot of those components. Like they were driving in a car to Dallas, but they were in a small town. They were out on the planes. They were,
00:32:48
Speaker
in a cattle ranch. He was wearing denims. Didn't call them denims at that point. It was jeans, but and boots and a hat and all those things. So I think there are some places where it works.
00:33:00
Speaker
The other cowboys that I have tagged, though, like Big Bad Cowboy that we read together, that does not have the same Western
Modern Westerns and Missing Traditional Elements
00:33:06
Speaker
vibe. That's just like... No. And i feel like I feel like the contemporary Westerns, like they'll be on the ranch and there'll be some of the work. There'll be like the horse-breaking stuff maybe will happen, or the horse bestie, or like the dusty clothes, but not the women's work. There's much less emphasis on just like the chores to keep everybody alive, right?
00:33:32
Speaker
Yeah, and it's a very different vibe also. you like I've read a couple... where it's a dude ranch kind of setting so it's a little bit more upscale so it doesn't yeah like Holly said it doesn't have those you do the work but like you do the ranch work and then there are other people who are employed to make the cooks or we'll call it like the Yellowstone ah it's Yellowstone Yeah.
00:33:54
Speaker
And I feel like also I've read some where maybe there's a ranch, but it's it's huge. So you're like land rich, but cash poor. But like if you sold the ranch to the big developer, you'd be a millionaire because some of that land is just worth tons and tons of money kind of a thing. Or like the ranch is so big that like this is kind of like in Calhoun to the ranch is so big that the brothers are extremely wealthy.
00:34:21
Speaker
Yeah, right. and I feel like in modern Westerns, we've got our, you know, billionaire ranch owners. Yeah. I mean, I guess, like, I've read a couple featuring ranch hands, or kind of like marginal circuit riders who are really struggling economically and emotionally.
00:34:40
Speaker
Yeah, but I feel like romance if they weren't. Right. You're right. Yeah, I just I think it's ah like the emphasis on chores is much less. And I mean, I feel like you can get a sense of isolation in any kind of romance if you are hyper focused on just the main characters.
00:34:57
Speaker
yeah And so that's a little bit harder to tease out. Like, I don't think it's a hallmark of modern Westerns, though. Like, it can be there, depending on what kind of story they're trying to tell. Yeah, yeah.
00:35:07
Speaker
I think even the ones where I've read that are in wide open spaces, though, because I'm thinking of, like, Texas Destiny. Nope. Is that the right one? The road trip one that took forever. and Yeah, Texas Destiny. It felt like they could look as far as the eye could see, and there was just nothing.
00:35:23
Speaker
yeah fair and the ones that i've read now that are in very isolated like i read one recently that was a very isolated town in wyoming and i had just been in wyoming and there are places like we drove through wyoming for like nine hours and there was nothing and nobody but there's still an interstate Yeah, like they're still fencing. They're still like you can see off in the distance the various little, you know, ranch houses or whatever, like things pop up so that it exists, but it doesn't have the same like absolutely desolate feel of a place and time where there aren't roads or railroads or houses. hmm.
00:36:09
Speaker
dotted throughout the land, even if the ranch is hundreds of acres. If an author doesn't write, like I think Lorraine Heath did, it's a very different sensory experience.
00:36:21
Speaker
Well, and i it makes sense too, because it has to set up, you have to have an understanding from that setting that the behaviors of the characters will make sense. So for example, when the town uses social ostracism to solve problems or takes the law into their own hands, it's because they have to. It's not because they're a bunch of bullies. If you had that same thing happen in a modern one, it wouldn't be the same.
00:36:45
Speaker
You know what I mean? right You don't want that necessarily, unless it's unless it's set up where they have no choice, you know, like it's a life or death situation or whatever. and And those are definitely factors in older Westerns is that they're trying to make a life out of nothing. And so that means from the ground up, there's, you know, socially and and everything else, which ties back into the isolationism, I think.
00:37:08
Speaker
here Yeah, yeah. And I think even and small towns in a historical Western are very isolated. Like what Ingrid was saying with the social ostracism or the vigilante Western justice.
00:37:21
Speaker
Like we don't see those in contemporary small town Western, right? You don't have that same sense of like, there's community there and we'll help each other. Like in the Linda Brode where they're like, yep, we'll fix your barn for you and everybody comes with their pies and whatever.
00:37:37
Speaker
But he had to marry her so they wouldn't tar and feather her. Yeah, right. there the flip side of that coin. Right. So is it, Holly, is it that the sense of isolation and needing to lean on oneself and one's
Challenges in Enjoying Western Narratives
00:37:53
Speaker
immediate community is more clear and pressing in a historical versus a contemporary?
00:38:00
Speaker
Or is it... Yes. And the contemporary, the small town focus is a lot more focused on the tweeness, I feel like, rather than... Like everybody knows everybody and and then as everybody' is up and everybody's up in everybody's business. Yes, and gossip. And and god that's funny instead of yeah it' funny instead of like invasive.
00:38:20
Speaker
Right. And it's and it's about like gossip and entertainment rather than survival. You know, historical Western, we're all up in everybody's business because we need to know when we need to go help somebody. Yeah. Well, and like, as you said, with the barn situation, people are going to go help, not necessarily because everybody likes everybody else, but because when their barn burns down, they need to rely on the community for assistance rebuilding their barn as well.
00:38:46
Speaker
And I think Ingrid had pointed out for the proper that we see that not happening for Lou. Right. And that was but that was Holly, actually. But yeah, oh was it I think of it was a telling aspect of how Lou is yeah but excluded from the community.
00:39:02
Speaker
That there's not a house raising for Lou. Yeah. They're just like shingling the roof by themselves. To be fair, I think Lou probably would have been uncomfortable out of their mind if that did happen.
00:39:13
Speaker
Yeah. But, but yes, you're right. That's the vibe of that community for sure. yeah Okay. What do you guys think now that you've read a bunch of Westerns? Is this a thumbs up, thumbs down? Do we have other recommendations?
00:39:25
Speaker
Yeah. I think I still have a struggle with this. We didn't maybe see this so much after week one where we tried real hard to avoid ah Confederate nonsense yeah will and bad representations of indigenous peoples.
00:39:44
Speaker
I will say, though, in the later books, we simply avoid the question of whose land the Homestead Acts are acquiring. And the fact that treaties were not adhered to by the U.S. s government, that's like a very interesting component of Western American history, I think.
00:40:03
Speaker
But, you know, that's not unique to this historical romance sphere. We and ignore a lot of imperialism and regency romance, for example, and so on and so forth. But i would still say i think I have the same hard time that I have with all historical romance, which is if it's a recent release.
Complexity of Enjoying Westerns
00:40:22
Speaker
Like, I don't think marrying off Morgan McBride was fun, but the relationship was annoying. And I think that was just like a stylistic choice issue that didn't vibe with me and how I like to see relationships happen. But like, I don't think that Heart in Hand was i mean, Heart in Hand was just a whole thing.
00:40:39
Speaker
They ain't Proper didn't do a great job of holding my attention. Wild Rain also didn't, it didn't do a great job of holding my attention. I've said this before about other modern releases, even in Regency or other places where I've read extensively, that like there seems to be some tension issues or like plot issues that just haven't been working for me. So then I go back to the older stuff that's like drama to the max right but it's got all of these iffy elements be they gender essentialism at like a minimum or like raping and pillaging kind of things you know like I'm thinking of um what was that wood a waste that's the flame in the flower was just like oh my god but even like gentle rogue you're just like this is very exciting but what
00:41:30
Speaker
ah but the problem that I have with stuff said in the United States Is that like Confederate apologist nonsense. So I just don't go to it at all. Like if it's written by a white person and it's like, I'm not even going to try, you know, because it's so much more likely to have Confederate apologist nonsense or really bad representations of indigenous Americans.
00:41:54
Speaker
You know what, though? um I'm going throw out here a little, maybe maybe a prediction, a prediction light, mild prediction. So remember how we talked about how there was this heyday for Westerns and then the it took kind of it dried up a bit.
00:42:09
Speaker
I think that my prediction is that much like the They Ain't Proper, I could see more authors playing with the opportunities presented Westerns.
Resurgence of Western Themes
00:42:21
Speaker
Westerns, I could see that making a resurgence. And the reason for that is I feel like in today's climate where the community taking the law into its own hands, the finding creative ways to save yourself or protect yourself, I think that that feeling of like, it's the wild west.
00:42:37
Speaker
There are no rules. We have to look at who you are deep down and like reach down deep to to find your character to fight through situations and do it while you're falling in love with someone. I could see opportunity for modern authors to play with these themes in a different way.
00:42:49
Speaker
And maybe kind of turn it on its head. Yeah. Well, I mean, and I think one of the hallmarks of just Westerns in general, not just Western romances, is rugged individualism. But there's also space in the way we imagine these places as places of like mutual aid and community support.
00:43:08
Speaker
And like thinking about that in terms of our modern moment. like telling romance stories that also feature these moments like found family I feel like there's tons of space for found family westerns and I will argue this I don't think westerns dried up I think they changed location to outer space I did read like a cowboy space book and I was like, this is awesome.
Western Themes in Speculative Fiction
00:43:34
Speaker
I'll have to see if I can find it again. But I did have fun.
00:43:37
Speaker
Think of when we did that. Some of those alien books that we did and we were like, this is, you know, like there were many, many, many similar threads that were pulled out and just put in another location. And I think part of the, to go back, I think off Aaron's point, part of the reason that that happened was you take a Western and you put it somewhere else and you don't have to worry about Confederate apologists.
00:43:57
Speaker
or oppressing indigenous people, because that's not a problem on Planet X9 v. 2000. Yes, it is. We're just going to oppress the indigenous aliens. See? yeah And we did pick up on that. in some of the There were like ones where it was done well, and there were ones where it really wasn't.
00:44:13
Speaker
But it is authors playing with things that felt good in Westerns. yeah so we just you know and as we have said before there's something to be said for removal right so there's historical romance can speak to modern issues but the temporal element allows us some emotional removal correct yeah yeah same way with with any sort of specfic that we might get and speculative fiction that we might get into So anyway, so Erin's saying she's not so sure that her
Ingrid's Nuanced Take on Westerns
00:44:46
Speaker
opinion has changed. Is that what I'm reading that correctly, Erin?
00:44:49
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I think so. And Holly, are you still a Seven Brides for Seven Brothers kind of? Oh, my God. I mean, like, you can't let go of the things that you loved in your childhood. Some things just stick. It is hard. Like, you can, but it's really hard.
00:45:04
Speaker
That's pirates for me. Or you can what's wrong with them and still kind of love them deep in your heart. Yeah. Yeah. I, you know, i I feel like my opinion didn't change a whole lot. It's very selective for me. There are Westerns I could eat with. I just love them.
00:45:18
Speaker
And there are Westerns where I'm like, you know, thank you. And I guess Ingrid is that but maybe you're going to articulate it already. But what is driving that? Like, we we just did a Let's Talk Tropes and Holly was like, bad tropification.
00:45:31
Speaker
So kind of sounds like you're saying, just tell me a compelling story, which is what Ali argued for in that Let's Talk Tropes, which we can link to in the notes. But is it that it's specific narratives that speak to you?
00:45:43
Speaker
Or is it just hard to predict that, yes, authors in general in this space are going to be the ones telling the
Moral Balance in Westerns
00:45:51
Speaker
stories you want to read? Or like where do you think you can isolate that Well, and I think waffling or this, I will say this bracket because brackets are a value guys. And that's why every time you fight me on this, I'm like, why are you fighting me on this? We're doing another one.
00:46:04
Speaker
It definitely clarified some things for me. So I will say that I think the obvious one goes off what Aaron said. There are some problematic elements, especially in the historical ones that are for me kind of an immediate turnoff. It makes it really hard to enjoy and root for a couple. If it's set in a,
00:46:21
Speaker
a setting or it features elements that are going to oppress people or gloss over things that, you know, if you if you get the ick, it's done for me, you know? yeah So there's that.
00:46:32
Speaker
The other thing is, is that I feel like when when certain elements are done well, so for example, in Silver Lining, The gender roles were very defined, right? And obviously, i was annoyed that he wouldn't take her money because she ended up getting signed up for hard labor and I felt like she should have had a say in it.
00:46:48
Speaker
That's a very feminist belief. But it didn't necessarily bother me as much because big picture, they were both doing a lot of hard work together as a couple, as a unit, and clearly valued each other's contributions.
00:46:59
Speaker
this is in a This is in a historic book. I mean, this is not a modern thing. It's it's just basically being a good person. When it's like that, it's very easy to overlook some of these things, like that one little moment. I didn't have to ruin the book for me because I was like, okay, but yes, that was BS, but they respect each other's roles.
00:47:16
Speaker
In books where it feels like they're idealizing things that are harmful like that, not just big picture confederacy and indigenous people, but the nuances between a couple where I'm too old to romanticize relationships where women are being used as tools or resources.
00:47:35
Speaker
That's not romantic to me. I don't find that romantic. So it doesn't work for me the way that I might have been able to overlook it in my teens and
Gender Roles in Western Narratives
00:47:43
Speaker
20s. I can't overlook it now. yeah So what I'm realizing is is that there's a delicate balance in Westerns. If it falls too far over on one side, I don't like it.
00:47:53
Speaker
Like Holly said about apologies to women for swearing. I don't have a problem with that at all. I actually think it, like we said, there's, it it provides a context for the environment that they're creating as a small town when some people apologize, some people swear and spit in front of women. It's,
00:48:08
Speaker
It's a literary tool in that case. And it makes sense to me. but But when the component, when the needle slides too far over, it's done. I don't like being preached to. I don't like, yeah, I don't like when women are being used as tools. There's a delicate balance. And I can, the thing that's amazing is, is that you can't say, well, just ignore all the historical ones.
00:48:26
Speaker
Because not all the historical ones are like that. you know what mean? There are some that can pull it off imperfectly, but they can. So I think that that's this one really, i love all the microtropes. I love all that. It's it's it's very much, there's nuance.
Criteria for Enjoying Westerns
00:48:39
Speaker
And that's that's tricky, but I can understand now why, because I think that when labor is such a huge part of it if it's not handled respectfully i don't like it when history is a huge part of it when history is not handled respectfully I don't like it wealth when when when there are you know inequalities and things like that when it's not handled respectfully I don't like it it's there's so much wiggle room with morals and values and rules and how these characters operate within these brand new wild west systems that they create that it's very easy for things to just kind of tip and that's how I feel about it
00:49:13
Speaker
I will say that when I go into the used bookstore for my romance novel hoarding sessions, where I acquire more for my collection, I almost never pick up Westerns. That's fair. I mean, i think part of it is I like Westerns, but i am also choosy about them. And the old ones need to be heavily vetted.
00:49:31
Speaker
yeah And like there aren't that many being published
Challenges with Confederate Themes
00:49:35
Speaker
now. Yeah. Right. So there's space. In general, it's a smaller part of the market than the Regencies or the Medievals.
00:49:45
Speaker
Right. I think it's natural that it's not going to be a large percent of books unless you're just like, this is my jam and this is what I'm going to read, you know?
00:49:56
Speaker
Right. I mean, and I think we said this in our first week, but with the big caveat of there are tons of Westerns being written. and published by inspirational lines. And those are all books.
00:50:09
Speaker
Those are books that we're generally not picking up. Yeah. But I have actually read a lot of those. So we're not, this isn't something that we're just like baby throwing the baby out with the bathwater on
Western Recommendations
00:50:20
Speaker
principle here. Like there's a reason we're not reading them, but I i have read them.
00:50:23
Speaker
Yeah. Anyway, should we give some recommendations? Yes, please. Let's give some recommendations. Okay. I will do mine first. Go first. Mine first. Mine. So I have a historical one, which is not steamy.
00:50:38
Speaker
I would call it kind of a stress palette cleanser, but it might not work now. It might be a little bit more stressful. It's called Letters and Lies by Colleen Donnelly. But the reason I recommend it is that if you play micro trope bingo, it would tick off like all of them.
00:50:54
Speaker
It just, it hits all the sweet spots for Westerns. And it's basically that this woman comes into town and she rides the train and everything, arrives in this small town. I think that she's trying to convince her. She had been, she'd been engaged.
00:51:08
Speaker
Her fiancee wrote her right before she's supposed to be on the train is like, nevermind, I don't want to marry you. But she's like, that's BS. I told everyone in town I'm marrying you. I'm not going to like be embarrassed. So she gets on the train anyway. And it's like, I'm going to convince this guy to marry me.
00:51:20
Speaker
And she gets there and basically the whole thing is there's the relationship issue where she's like, what do I do? I have to convince my fiance to marry me again. And then there's this bigger issue where she's in this town that's basically been taken over by this immoral banker guy.
00:51:33
Speaker
And so she's simultaneously trying to help the town stop this banker guy and get through this muddle where she's basically lied about who she is. And then the person who's figuring out that she has been lying is the sheriff who is also her love interest.
00:51:49
Speaker
So it's it's a good little plot-driven, like tension-driven Western with, it's very, my honestly, I think in my review of it, it's on the site. I think I said that you could probably have your grammar read it.
00:52:03
Speaker
So there's that one. And then I have two modern ones, but they're modern. Save them for next time. I'm going to save them for next time. Okay, cool. Well, this is, as I have said, this is not my scene typically, but read Nighthawk.
00:52:21
Speaker
It had been on my TBR. And then we were doing a Cowboys, like, let's talk archetypes kind of conversation. So like, I'll read it for this. And that one was fun. It has a great sense of place.
00:52:33
Speaker
There's a lot going on. in my overall note, when I reviewed it, I said, just when I thought things were slowing down, a new adventure cropped up. So this one is a woman is attacked by a white man.
00:52:49
Speaker
They're in a kitchen. So she hits him with a, i don't know, frying pan, rolling pin, something like that. And he has like a traumatic brain injury basically and dies.
00:53:00
Speaker
So she, being a black woman, is Actually, she is black. like Her dad is black and her mother is from a very small Indian tribe.
00:53:12
Speaker
And Beverly Jenkins actually has notes about this in the book. So it was interesting and fun. so But, you know, she's not white. So she is arrested. the people who are related to the dead guy like try to lynch her.
00:53:27
Speaker
So the marshal... who is tasked with taking her to the judge. He is also a black man. He's very like a famous, you know, it's all the best things, right? He's like a famous, everybody's a little bit scared of him.
00:53:40
Speaker
Like there's a gunslinger moment on the train. So he tries to take her to the judge and then like they end up falling in love kind of on the road trip journey. And he ends up having his own ranch.
00:53:51
Speaker
Like he's a marshal. He's a bounty hunter. He's this lawman. But he also has spent his life working to set up his own ranch to retire to in Wyoming. So you get a little bit of everything and this. It's fun.
00:54:05
Speaker
And the cover is awesome. Okay, here's what I've got, guys. Okay, so my first recommendation is Outlaw Hearts by laurie G. Matthews.
00:54:18
Speaker
um And this is a fairly recent release that came out last year 2024. And it's a sapphic western. Basically, Izzy is a misbehaving society miss and her dad is just over it.
00:54:33
Speaker
So he ships her off to be the bride of like his banker buddy who lives in New Mexico. And so she's kind of a mail order bride, but she's an unwilling one on punishment.
00:54:45
Speaker
um And on the way, her stagecoach gets held up by ah nasty dude. And Elle, who is also an outlaw with her like found family of like misfit, like outlaw friends, intervenes and saves Izzy from being kidnapped and raped by this nasty dude.
00:55:07
Speaker
And when this happens, Izzy is like, how about you kidnap me instead so I don't have to go marry this stranger? And el was like, uh, that seems like a bad plan, but wait a minute.
00:55:20
Speaker
There's probably ransom money in this for me. So that's then we go from there and like Elle of course is trying not to fall for Izzy because Izzy is a job and Izzy is going to be a payout but at the same time she's like teaching Izzy how to be in the West because Izzy is just like a ridiculous society miss who's like you know what your cabin rugged cabin needs it needs curtains curtains.
00:55:48
Speaker
And like a tablecloth. We need some tablecloth up in here. And it's just, it's really fun. And it ticks the Western boxes. You know, there's like grime and shootouts and an evil brothel madam and all the fun things.
00:56:07
Speaker
But without like the icky gender stuff, basically. Well, because they're playing around with gender. A second one that I would recommend is The Prospector's Only Prospect by Danny Collins. And it has a really bad title, like what even is happening?
00:56:24
Speaker
But we were talking about chores and labor. This is the like most choresy, labor-y book I have ever read. um They're in a mining camp. Like they're living in a tent and she is cooking over a fire and there's a communal oven for the whole camp.
00:56:44
Speaker
And so there's all this stuff about her, like taking her biscuits down to the communal oven where like the the camp cook is making bread so she can like make biscuits for the family.
00:56:55
Speaker
And like the chamber pot or like the poop bucket basically is like part of the story. um and Delightful. It's very, well, you know, like, it's, you know, it's ah it's a whole thing.
00:57:10
Speaker
gotta clean out the chamber pot. It's just like part of what you have to do. And Danny Collins mostly writes Harlequin Presents. This is kind of like a one-off. you I think usually she writes like Greek billionaires, but it's got that like Harlequin Presents- energy between the characters and just like really good charisma uh or like sparks between the characters so that's two and then also want to the gunslinger's vow by amy sandus i also really enjoyed when i read it and this like road trip kind of romance very isolated they're just like riding around on horses by themselves basically so holly i'm surprised
00:57:50
Speaker
You will love mail order brides so much, but are any of those mail order, like, they're- Yeah. oh Oh, well, the prospector's only prospect is she she is a mail order bride. Okay.
00:58:01
Speaker
Like, get some representation. Yeah. Well, and, like, Izzy is kind of a mail order bride, too, but she- Right. Yes. And actually, the Gunslinger's Vow, think she's a mail order bride, too, but she's going there for her own reasons, and it's been a while since I read that one, so I don't- I don't remember the details of, like, how she ends up out West. But she's also, like, a woman who grew up in the East who ends up out West.
00:58:27
Speaker
Mm-hmm. But unlike some of these other women, she, like, knows how to shoot a gun and stuff. So she's, like, she's not in over her head. That's fun. Yeah. But yes, the prospector's only prospect is mail-order bride. he He, like, has some kids and... but and Sarah Plain and Tall.
00:58:45
Speaker
Oh, yeah, yeah. But... Yeah, but like in a mining camp. but And he agreed to like marry her sister and she like steal takes her sister's train ticket and comes instead because she got into some trouble back home.
00:58:58
Speaker
So yeah. Such drama. Such drama. And this one, this one also, it takes place in the 1850s and her trouble is she's an abolitionist and she's too outspoken and it is like getting run out of her hometown. Ooh. Yeah.
00:59:14
Speaker
because because of her political activism. So she like needs a place to go. You know, again, desperate women become mail-order brides. She's desperate woman who needs to get out of Dodge.
00:59:25
Speaker
Anyway, i got some for you. All right. Holly, it was Holly. Thanks for showing up for us, Holly. You're welcome. Anyway, so friends, that was our hoedown showdown.
00:59:37
Speaker
i mean, we do have plans for other things we're going to do on the podcast, but we might take a May hiatus. ah We'll see. But maybe not. Maybe now we're like, let's podcast all the time. Pirates!
00:59:47
Speaker
Pirates!
00:59:50
Speaker
Yes, coming your way soon. You can find our show notes at smutreport.com slash podcast. And until then, keep it smutty, folks. Na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na Smut Report!