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EPISODE 18 -Josh McDaniels is back! instant reaction.
168 Plays3 months ago
Reaction to the Josh Mcdaniels hire and the media reporting and reaction.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Josh McDaniels' Return
00:00:00
Savage Boston
All right, what's going on, guys? Welcome back to the Savage Boston Podcast. We are here. It is January 21st, and it's like 8.50 at night, again, to timestamp when we're actually recording. um Just the huge news that dropped. yeah We're getting lucky with our timing here, but huge news dropped. you know A couple hours ago, Josh McDaniels is going to be the next offensive coordinator for his third round with the Patriots, which is not unexpected. But in the last couple of days, we started thinking like, all right, well, I haven't heard a lot of noise about Josh McDaniels. So, you know, maybe they are trending towards the Rams tree and McVey tree.
Media Dynamics and Kirk Manahan's Influence
00:00:39
Savage Boston
um And obviously that came, that theory came crashing down pretty quickly today. But, but
00:00:44
Savage Boston
What I wanted to get into first and talk to you guys about it was just like how how the media so far is breaking these stories and and let you know how legacy media deals with information. So you know obviously the guy who's broken the last two major major Patriot stories is Kirk Manahan, who has a whole following and a huge show and works for Barstool and they're kind of like this large apparatus.
00:01:11
Savage Boston
um But Kirk, you know, has had both Robin Glaser being out. And now, I mean, he had this four hours beforehand, just like, yep, they're signing McDaniels and it's imminent. No one was even talking ah about McDaniels. And I even earlier today heard Bedard on Felger and Maz literally say something like, I think maybe for Abel's leaning towards the Rams tree. This is like two hours before McDaniels signs.
00:01:39
Savage Boston
It's like, you know, I'm glad they're keeping things tight lit, but I just, I'm finding it interesting that they're basically the local guys right now aren't getting these kinds of stories for some reason. So I don't know, how are you guys kind of interpreting how this information is getting out?
00:01:55
Snooty
I think it, to a certain extent, it makes sense that the local guys don't get it, right? If it's a new coaching staff coming in. I know he played here and I know some, a lot of the reporters, you know, he gave a shout out to Karen Greig in, you know, um, at a introductory press conference or whatever, but you know, I mean, there's been certainly there's been change since he left in what, 2009, 2010.
00:02:06
Savage Boston
Hmm. going
00:02:17
Snooty
So, you know, um, there's a lot of change. So we kind in a certain respect, it makes sense that it would be more national guys or. you know people with different types of sources that would break this type of thing versus the you know local B reporter who's been here before, who had two decades or however long they had been here to you know get stuff within the but but the way Bill Belichick ran it.
00:02:41
Bret
Yeah, the only counter to that is, you know, you hear Kirk talk and he's talking about how much these guys suck. And like he was, you know, he was crapping on Brere as an example in there.
00:02:52
Bret
And Brere's like, while he's like a local guy, he's also like a really big national guy, right? So that kind of shoots that narrative down.
00:02:58
Savage Boston
yeah
00:03:00
Bret
um I mean clearly Kirk has some insider guys like clearly has good contacts in the organization That's helping him through it Part of me wonders if it's kind of like an old approach where they're just trying to protect Like their sources and like there's an old way about it And then you got guys like Kirk who's like I don't give a fuck kind of a thing and he's not He's not trying to protect anything.
00:03:22
Bret
He's trying to be first to the source um so
00:03:25
Savage Boston
But why won't some of the local guys like when Kirk breaks a story and like quite obviously you get a weird random grilled cheese account today on there who had zero followers who just randomly is like third tweet ever just says Vic Daniels is signing. It's like alright is this some random burner you know like you don't know who who these people are because it's all anonymous right but The largely Kirk is the first one just out of the blue McDaniel is assigning its imminent.
Challenges in Local Media Reporting
00:03:51
Savage Boston
Obviously someone clearly told him from inside the organization hey McDaniel's is here he's signing and then more things come out and then you got Ben peltzman Patriots beat who I gave a shout out today he was able before some of these big guys he was able to confirm that McDaniel's interviewed for the OC job before a lot of the big local guys so
00:04:11
Savage Boston
I'm just, I don't know, I'm trying to piece it together. I think some of these local guys, um I don't know why it feels like they're not getting they're not getting like priority information for some reason. And like I think they do a good job. I'm not poo-pooing these guys. I just find it interesting. I feel like they're not getting they're not getting the scoop. I don't know. and i'm And I'm not sure why or the dynamic, because I'm not a scooper.
00:04:35
Savage Boston
you know so
00:04:36
Snooty
i wonder I wonder if Breer is a craft guy, and the crafts aren't doing anything, and it's Rabel's side that's running everything.
00:04:44
Savage Boston
Yeah, I would be willing to bet that it's potentially even Vrabel himself telling some people some information.
00:04:52
Snooty
Probably.
00:04:53
Savage Boston
Maybe even Vrabel directly to Kirk, but again, we don't know, you know, we don't know that or why, you know, maybe he likes Kirk. I have no idea, but it's all speculative. But obviously, Kirk has a relationship in there.
00:05:05
Savage Boston
um And then there are are some reporters that i've I've spoken to some guys before that have told me that there's some reporters that are just mouthpieces for Kraft. And Ryan, he tells them hey...
00:05:18
Savage Boston
You know, get this out. I want this out, right? Especially, again, I don't want to name names or anything like that. But there's a couple of guys that, as it was becoming obvious for Abel, was going to sign here. And there was they were negotiating. ah One reporter unnamed came up with a story how the Patriots were really comfortable with their choices between Kraft and Ben Johnson. And that was a ah very clear message from Patriots ownership to try to leverage for some reason. And then like clearly that narrative cleared up. so and I'm just personally interested in the media stuff, being on Twitter a lot, and seeing how people interact with each other. And and I find it interesting that they're kind of reluctant to credit
McDaniels and Patriots' Coaching Strategy
00:05:58
Savage Boston
Kirk, too. you know They'll credit Barstool, but I don't know. It's just created this really strange dynamic. So I don't know, odd.
00:06:05
Bret
Yeah, I do think, you know, Kirk obviously has a reputation in the area. So I do think there's probably some carryover bad blood. So, and on top of it, like he literally shits on people constantly.
00:06:17
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:06:17
Bret
So to me, like, I think it's just one of those situations where, I mean, yeah, Kirk's got an inside guy.
00:06:18
Savage Boston
yeah
00:06:24
Bret
I do think to look, you know, Study's point that ah Kind of what I was saying, they're protecting their sources, and and and some of these guys' craft could be their sources, and this is coming from a different source, so they're not going to disclose it, but they're not hearing it elsewhere. um But I also think they're not going to give Kirk credit, because again, I don't think there's a lot of i hope theres lot of love lost there.
00:06:48
Savage Boston
Yeah. No, I hear you. Well, all right. Well, moving on past the media part, because I was, you know, again, I just kind of found that interesting today, just like the Glaser story, which is fascinating. So the the actual hire, so McDaniels comes in.
00:07:03
Savage Boston
You know, he kind of from the outside perspective felt like the favorite the whole time. Although again, a lot of lot of like Patriots fans wanted them to kind of go in this different direction, right? They wanted the younger guy. They wanted the young stud coordinator with through the McVey tree or the Vikings.
00:07:19
Savage Boston
um And they wanted that guy to come in and and shape Drake and whatever, but obviously, you know with the signing of McDaniels, it's clearly not the direction they wanted to go. Maybe they wanted more conservative, a safer choice, it's not going to leave.
00:07:34
Savage Boston
um I think McDaniels is obviously a really great coordinator. He's done really well in multiple places. He runs a good offense. He clearly is not a head coach, but he doesn't have to be that guy anymore. So hopefully he can find his niche with with Drake. So how do you guys feel about the actual like football hire for McDaniels?
00:07:55
Snooty
So I'm actually, you know, we've obviously had a few days to kind of chew on this before it's become official or, you know, relatively official. I'm a little bit higher on it than I was before.
00:08:06
Snooty
um I still would have liked to see a more comprehensive kind
Prospects with Drake May and Offensive Hopes
00:08:10
Snooty
of search, but it sounds like they did interview a few you know younger guys. I saw somewhere that Thomas Brown um from the Bears, like he couldn't end up coming here as the if he doesn't get an offensive coordinator job somewhere else, um which is good.
00:08:23
Savage Boston
yes
00:08:26
Snooty
You know you get some outside you know voices, ah an up and coming coach type of thing. um i think The upside to this is that someone had a line, I can't remember who, Taylor Kyles or something, but like it was like he could have his office Drake May could have his off offensive coordinator like for his career, for his life.
00:08:43
Savage Boston
Yes. Sure.
00:08:47
Snooty
like There is that level of upside. Because if you think about it, there's only real two scenarios in which Josh McDaniels
00:08:50
Savage Boston
so
00:08:55
Snooty
becomes a head coach. It's either Vrabel so bad that he gets fired and they elevate McDaniels on an interim basis or he does so fucking well that he gets a third shot as a head coach and you you can't even fathom how well he'd have to do to get a third shot as a head coach.
00:09:12
Savage Boston
I just can't see it, but...
00:09:14
Snooty
i but That's what I mean like you can't even begin to fathom the concept of that right like what that would look like and if that does Materialize that means Drake May is like winning like three MVPs in a row and shit like that You know I mean so like and that's awesome. That means you're probably doing really well, and you probably want a fucking Super Bowl Somewhere in there, so you know I think there is that level of upside um it probably has a higher floor, but I a more realistic upside?
00:09:44
Snooty
I don't know. I'm still a little mixed because I wanted some new ideas. We'll see if McDaniel's been making the rounds and kind of you know learning new new ideas and and meeting with other... I hope that's what he's done in the year plus that he's been out, but we'll see.
00:09:59
Savage Boston
yeah yeah
00:10:00
Bret
Yeah, I'm kind of surprised there hasn't been and more reporting on where he's been at, like what he's been doing. um But so my my take on it is I really didn't want McDaniels because I wanted someone fresh.
00:10:07
Savage Boston
yeah
00:10:14
Bret
And, you know, my perspective here is that my or my concern here is is that bringing in a guy like McDaniels could signal that Kraft is still too involved in the organization, you know, and that potentially he's basically trying to get what he knows.
00:10:25
Savage Boston
Yeah. Yeah.
00:10:30
Bret
And that we can't have that influence, right? We really need to get away from that. That's what I think gets us in trouble. ah So I'm hoping that's not the case. Now, the good thing about McDaniels is he's definitely a competent or offensive coordinator. you know he's he's better than the evp like he's been around the league for a while he's developed quarterbacks he's taken guys that have come in on an interim basis and been able to get him to produce so ah he's got a track record to be a great oc um i just
00:11:03
Bret
I don't know where he's at long term. I also don't know if it fits the game that there is today. So I was really wanting to get away from it to try something new. And like I said, one of my you know one of my inner concerns here is is that it's just an extension of craft still involved too much in the organization and we got to get away from that.
00:11:24
Bret
So that's my only fear. But on the upside, I do at least know that the guy can coach. He knows how to coach offense. He can develop quarterback. So that's a good thing. And, you know, at least we got competency on that side. And now let's see what happens on the defensive coordinator side.
00:11:40
Savage Boston
Well, i gotta I have a really hard time believing that Vrable gets all this power and authority, and like you're the man, and then crafts come in. They're like, you know what? Let's hire Josh over who you want, because this is our guy. I can't imagine that being the conversation like one weekend.
00:12:00
Savage Boston
You know, you have to believe that I think he downplayed Josh in his interviews. Like, yeah, yeah, I know Josh. Like, I think, I think there's some potential that this was as quick and and decided as the head coach hiring was where they fulfill the Rooney rule and they get variable. And in this case, they're like, you know, they, okay, they fulfill the Rooney rule and then here we are. It's Tuesday and boom, McDonald's is hired.
00:12:25
Savage Boston
You know, like, yeah, they interviewed a couple other interesting, or at least one other really interesting candidate, the kid from the Vikings, who's only 28. That was a really interesting candidate, and I think people would not have been disappointed if he was hired, but maybe maybe a little too young. um But I think ultimately the upside of Josh, like, they all know Josh. The k Crafts know Josh. Vrable does know Josh and has a good relationship with him. No, they haven't coached together, but he knows him.
00:12:50
Savage Boston
um josh has had success multiple multiple times yes he had tom brady but in the seasons without brady he still did pretty well he did pretty well with matt castle he did pretty well with mac jones you know he did he even was living like 12th in scoring with the raider's offense with josh jacobson and um derrick carr so like you know the guy does a decent offense he just can't be in charge of the operation and nobody likes to play for him You know, like somehow he couldn't organize the room.
00:13:19
Savage Boston
They didn't want to, and he doesn't have to worry about that. This, this is the real upside. Like Vrabel is the man. Like he is the football man in that locker room. And then Josh can come in and just focus on Drake May and then hire people, hire van Pelt back.
00:13:35
Savage Boston
Where's van Pelt at? He hasn't even been fired yet.
00:13:37
Snooty
And they're not going to, they're not going to keep them healthy.
00:13:38
Savage Boston
Where's he at?
00:13:41
Savage Boston
I don't put on a quarterback's coach. I don't like where, where is he? He's in the, uh, the eat, they eat there. Like, where is he?
00:13:47
Snooty
So technically none of the offensive coaches, except for, I think, that no, ah Peter's the O-line coach.
00:13:51
Savage Boston
A couple got fired.
00:13:54
Snooty
He went somewhere.
00:13:55
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:13:55
Snooty
um And then, but I think. If they got the opportunity, they could have been released. I mean, certainly now that ravel's here, it's, it's, you know, but before they were basically holding them saying, just wait till we get our guys in here and then they'll kind of decide, right?
00:14:09
Snooty
Cause you don't but have them under contract. So.
00:14:12
Savage Boston
Oh, hold on, let me read to you. These are the coaches that have officially left so far. Titans coach Bob Bicknell, running back coach Taylor Embry, wide receiver coach Taylor Hughes, which that's the one I wanted gone.
00:14:24
Savage Boston
ah Coaching assistant Keith Jones, assistant wide receivers coach Tyquan Underwood, those guys are all gone. um And Peters is gone, but that was those were like the the group that Reese tweeted out the other day that were moving.
00:14:30
Snooty
And Peters has gone too.
00:14:36
Snooty
Right. I forget where Peters went. He went Cincinnati, Cincinnati, I think.
00:14:39
Savage Boston
What does it say? and think so yeah
00:14:42
Snooty
Yeah.
00:14:42
Savage Boston
no
00:14:42
Snooty
So I mean, look, like a new, a new coordinator is going to bring their own guys. Like they they were saying Cole Popovich could come in, um, potentially be the O line coach. Um, cause he, he was here before he worked under pretty sure he worked under scar.
00:14:57
Snooty
Um, He's obviously very familiar with the system. I want to see them incorporate some new stuff, but they need to get a
00:15:05
Savage Boston
I think
Impact of Coaching Changes on Team Dynamics
00:15:08
Snooty
good old line coach in here.
00:15:08
Savage Boston
so.
00:15:10
Snooty
Kind of sucks the tight end coach left.
00:15:10
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:15:12
Snooty
It was about the only good thing on the offense last year, aside from May. I wouldn't mind TC McCartney. I don't know if it was Van Pelt or TC McCartney or one of them or both of them were doing great work with the quarterback.
00:15:23
Snooty
So I wouldn't be opposed to that.
00:15:24
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:15:27
Snooty
ah the The system that Van Pelt runs is literally the exact opposite of what McDaniels runs, like the terminology.
00:15:33
Savage Boston
Well, that was why they thought, why don't we go get the West Coast coach? You know, so if we're going to run West Coast again, this is like more nitty gritty and I'm sure research dudes can talk about this, but there's a lot to be said about what offense are they going to run?
00:15:47
Savage Boston
And like basically, you know, the biggest difference between right West Coast and what McDonald's has done is like, I guess just responsibility put on the quarterback for how much they have to to make adjustments at the line and change the the blocking scheme and such.
00:16:00
Snooty
Instead of the center, yeah.
00:16:02
Savage Boston
instead of the center right west coast is like much simpler. um Like you just have a name for the play. And then you run the play. You know versus like going to the line the huddle and naming everything.
00:16:13
Snooty
it It's it's the West Coast system. It's usually like a number like there's like it's like a phrase.
00:16:17
Savage Boston
I don't
00:16:18
Snooty
It's like what's a Gruden's famous ones like spider to.
00:16:21
Savage Boston
know why ive banana.
00:16:22
Snooty
Yeah, that one. So it's like that, you know, whereas like, I think it's called the Earhart Perkins system or something that, that McDaniel's runs where it's like, that's the one where you get like the, like, basically, you know, 15 second long, like play.
00:16:23
Savage Boston
and
00:16:27
Savage Boston
Yeah. yeah
00:16:35
Savage Boston
Yeah, because everyone, it tells you what everyone's going to do.
00:16:37
Snooty
It it's it says exactly what everyone's going to do.
00:16:37
Savage Boston
It's like X, X, post, Y, Y, drag, you know, red, right, power, blah, you know, play action.
00:16:39
Snooty
Yeah.
00:16:46
Savage Boston
Like they're just naming what each position group is going to do.
00:16:48
Snooty
which is the stuff that if you recall back to the offseason hard knocks, um that's the stuff that, um what's his name? Dayball was talking about. If you go back and watch that and with with May.
00:16:58
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:17:00
Snooty
So I don't doubt that May can learn it. It's just, it's like, that's a completely brand new system.
00:17:06
Bret
Yeah, so that was going to be my point, right? So I've heard this talked about and I do think, you know, changing it like every year, right? It's a conversation, especially say we're doing this conversation again next year, right? Now we're talking third OC. I think it's I think it's understandable up until that point, though, like I I don't really buy into too much about like changing the offense and and how it goes. I think it really determined on like on how that impacts the quarterback, um especially like this early on and whatnot. Like I think he'll develop. I think it really just depends on the pieces and the systems around you and then like finding a system that's going to work for a guy like May and his skill set. And clearly the guy is
00:17:51
Bret
Mobile he's got a big arm um But like they're gonna see how he how he processes, right? How does he work through the the place and the sequences and stuff? But I just don't think like there's so much of this.
00:18:04
Bret
Well, we can't go from this offense to that offense, etc I'm like this guy's a professional he'll figure out like I don't think there's that much There but I don't know. I also I think I think it gets overplayed and
00:18:14
Savage Boston
He's also a smart kid. Well, he's a smart kid. And you know he's he's a good kid. He's a smart kid. and So you know I think he'll be able to hopefully make an adjustment. He's only been in the league one year. He's extremely young. He's a talented, bright kid. So like I'm pretty confident he's going to go full effort trying to learn a system. And I think he'll do well in each system. I think he's got this this skill set that you want. you know it's like i think You know, some something like it happened this year with with Jane Daniels, where, you know, he had such a perfect scenario with like his head coach and coordinator and like Cliff Kingsbury, he's done ah an amazing job with that offense. um And I was looking at the other day, I wanted to bring up like the types of quarterbacks that are still in the playoffs right now.
00:19:03
Savage Boston
Like look at every type of quarterback, especially the top three, Jalen Hurts, we can kind of leave out a little bit, but what type of quarterbacks are they? And like all of them can run. All of them create, all of them can go out of the pocket and off schedule and off platform. Every single one of them. Jalen Hurts is clearly the worst out of the group. Like between Josh and and Pat, and you know, and Yomah Holmes and and Jaden, like those guys are the best at this. So I think,
00:19:32
Savage Boston
To me, I look at Drake May and I say, he has the skill set in this modern type of quarterback offense. like He's the guy kind of that you you really want.
Building the Patriots: Draft and Talent Acquisition
00:19:42
Savage Boston
So I'm excited about his development. because I really see like there's real talent there. um Just got to get some pieces around him. But but can you guys see the whole kind of quarterback comparison with Drake May?
00:19:56
Snooty
Yeah, I mean, I think it's to to me, it's still the most important thing is the ability to work within the offense, right? like Because that's obviously primary what you're doing. And that's where you you most of the plays end up. But the ability to create something when that breaks down or when that doesn't work means you have a higher percentage of successful plays or at least the potential for a higher percent of successful place, right? So that's invaluable, really. um I mean, I think they need to, truthfully, and I kind of talked about this last last week, I think they need to follow kind of what the the commanders did, which is, yes, you're obviously you have to nail the draft. That's just universal. But you have to sign layers of veterans in there, which is what the commanders did. They didn't sign a whole bunch of like high price free free agents. They signed
00:20:49
Snooty
like a slew of you know but you know like average, average or slightly above average type players.
00:20:52
Savage Boston
Yeah. yeah
00:20:56
Snooty
And that's how they filled out a lot of their roster, and that's how they're making a deep playoff run. Because you surround, basically build competency. You had no competency last year, and you had no talent last year.
00:21:07
Snooty
If you bring in the coaches, and if you bring in, I think it's Terrell Williams, who's the guy they're talking about being in the DC, if you bring him in, now you have competency and legitimacy in your in your coaching staff.
00:21:12
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:21:17
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:21:17
Snooty
right like Who knows what's going to happen in the front office, but like that's that's that's separate. If you actually bring in some like depth and talent where you had none last year, you should be good. If May is ah is everything we expect them to be, then you should be good. My only concern with changing systems, just to one last point about that, is everyone talked about how advanced the system was with Brady right and how the second half of the career the second half of the dynasty here it was like too complex for a lot of like free agents especially receivers and stuff to come in and rookies to come in and pick up that's because he had been in it for so long that he yeah he was able to build off of it that's why you don't want to change system so much because it's like learning a new language every year and you don't really get to build on and improve from what you had before so
00:22:02
Savage Boston
And I don't think Josh will be going anywhere though.
00:22:05
Snooty
No, and that's that's the that's the real benefit of him, right as you go.
00:22:06
Savage Boston
This is what's good. yeah
00:22:08
Snooty
Look he's confident He's solid and he's not going anywhere So you should have like a pretty long runway here to actually like help build this kid up and make him reach You know the highest points he can off his he does have vast potential So in that sense, I understand it and that's kind of why I'm a little bit higher on the higher higher on the higher um You know, yeah than I was before so
00:22:30
Savage Boston
higher Higher and I think there's some real potential that you know next year's Patriots could be this year's this year's commanders.
00:22:43
Savage Boston
You know, I think that's, that's not a crazy, crazy thing to say. I mean, I think going to NFC championships, wild, you know, don't get me wrong. Like that's a real reach, but, but I think youbique you could turn around this team to get back into playoff contention. And I don't think that's crazy to say because they should be spending a crazy amount this off season. Then they do need some top level talent. Like, um, you know, Jaden still does need Terry McLaurin.
00:23:09
Savage Boston
but Jayden's done great with everybody else too. So, I mean, that's just Jayden's a pretty special player right now. He's been incredible, but like you gotta, you know, they replaced three or four starters on the O-line.
00:23:15
Bret
That's a nice one.
00:23:19
Savage Boston
That's ah how many they turned over. We have to do the same thing. Like we have to turn over the full unit almost, except for maybe like just Unwinew and if David Andrews comes back and that's it. And then you need three more starters.
00:23:31
Snooty
Yeah.
00:23:32
Savage Boston
You know, maybe you play Lane Robinson, whatever, but like, you know, you got to overhaul this whole, the whole operation.
00:23:39
Snooty
Yeah.
00:23:39
Savage Boston
Player as well.
00:23:40
Snooty
I mean, I mean, they, they lack talent everywhere and we keep coming back to that.
00:23:43
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:23:44
Snooty
Like they suck. You don't go four and 13 and be good.
00:23:45
Savage Boston
yeah Yeah.
00:23:47
Snooty
You know what I mean? Like you suck. So I don't know. I mean, from what they had last year, you should probably have at least three new starters on the old line, maybe four, but probably three.
00:24:00
Snooty
Right. Which is with Andrews coming back. So technically for right. Um, which is good.
00:24:05
Savage Boston
and
00:24:06
Snooty
You should have a revamped receiver core. I'm not saying they shouldn't chase top talent. I'm just saying. You know, given the choice, I'd rather not sign like two top talent guys and and not much else.
00:24:18
Snooty
I'd rather kind of spread it out a little bit. Cause that's how you're going to improve more quickly. It's only a one or two year bump because in any scenario you have to nail the draft. You have to draft well, or it's just not going to work.
00:24:28
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:24:30
Snooty
So, you know, it if you can get, you know, a couple of linebackers, couple of, I would love to get Ronnie Stanley, um, you know, you know, some premier.
00:24:35
Savage Boston
That'd be nice. Trace math, I like to a lot.
00:24:42
Snooty
O. Lyman and then, you know, if you draft well, Abdul Carter or Mason Graham or or somebody, and then, you know, that's the path to getting there. You have to draft well. They have to hit on the next, this draft and next draft. They have to hit if they're going to have any chance to be successful.
00:24:59
Savage Boston
Let me look this up. I was going to, um, I was going to go over the, like, you know, we're talking about the lions and how did the lions, how did lions do what they did? Or how did they become kind of like a juggernaut a juggernaut team?
00:25:11
Savage Boston
Right.
00:25:12
Snooty
They have what, three o alignment in the first round?
00:25:14
Savage Boston
So let me, so let me read. Okay. Not to deep dive the lions here, but let me read. It's a 22 draft for the lions. Right. If you deep drive, how do you become a good team? Okay.
00:25:24
Savage Boston
They had two first round picks. In 2022, one's Aiden Hutchinson, freak show. He's awesome. Sucks he was injured this year. ah to another their Another first round pick was Jameson Williams, who maybe hasn't quite lived up, but now he's getting good. He's really fast. And Kirby Joseph in the third round. so And I don't know how Josh Pascal is, but I don't think he's as good as the others. But Kirby Joseph's, I think, been pretty good. So ah you know he was an all-pro one year. um and 800 probably would have been an all-pro if it wasn't her.
00:25:55
Savage Boston
So that's just 2022. Go to 2023. And I mean, look at this look at this first four players. like They had two firsts and two seconds, OK? Jameer Gibbs, Jack Campbell, Sam Laporta, Brian Branch.
00:26:10
Snooty
Yeah, four for four.
00:26:11
Savage Boston
In two years, dude, you have seven guys, seven starters, like legit talent starters. And so then you say like you know you've really like that is how you actually do it.
00:26:24
Savage Boston
You draft. You have to draft. You have to hit in the draft.
00:26:27
Snooty
When was school 2021?
00:26:29
Savage Boston
I i believe so. I'll look that up.
00:26:31
Snooty
But then they had, it was a Taylor Decker. They had Frank Ragan out. Like they've, they've had like legit talent drafted up front. And it takes time, but like, look at any team that's had a good series, like the, like the Seattle teams when they started getting really good and won a Superbowl.
00:26:51
Savage Boston
Dude, it was penny. Penny Sewell was um, I mean what a drafty penny Sewell in 2021.
00:26:52
Snooty
ah
00:26:56
Savage Boston
He was obviously their seventh overall He's been to all pros three Pro Bowls and then in the fourth round I'm on Ross a Brown to all throws three Pro Bowls So, you know, the other ones weren't as big hits, but they hit, you know They've had nine legit starters and three drafts like all high talent and like that is truly how you get them
00:27:03
Snooty
Yeah.
00:27:16
Snooty
That, I mean, look at those Seattle Josh from back in the day. It's like cam chancellor in the middle rounds, Richard Sherman in the middle rounds. It's like, I know they took girl Thomas early on, but like, you know, they hit on all these guys that like, you know, Michael, uh, right. Yeah. Michael Bennett, like they hit on all these guys in the middle rounds and that's why they fell off. It's like Russell Wilson in the third rounds. Cause like you can't, no one can hit at that rate for that long. But when you do like, that's when you get something special.
00:27:47
Savage Boston
Yeah, it's crazy. I mean, there's been some amazing classes, you know, obviously, um, I think what's funny is the night there's one that's coming up that is hilarious, but this really doesn't happen ever. But you know who got drafted in the 1974 Steelers draft?
00:28:05
Snooty
Uh, I mean, I don't Joe green.
00:28:07
Savage Boston
but visual
00:28:11
Savage Boston
No, so first round, Hall of Famer, Lynn Swann.
00:28:15
Snooty
Okay.
00:28:15
Savage Boston
Second round, Hall of Famer, Jack Lambert.
00:28:17
Snooty
Yep.
00:28:18
Savage Boston
Fourth round, Hall of Famer, John Stallworth.
00:28:21
Snooty
Yep. yeah
00:28:21
Savage Boston
Fifth round, Hall of Famer, Mike Webster. And they had an undrafted free agent Hall of Famer safety, Donnie Shell. So somehow they drafted four Hall of Famers in one draft.
00:28:32
Snooty
Yeah.
00:28:33
Savage Boston
That's insanity, man. That doesn't happen. That's crazy.
00:28:36
Snooty
No, but like, but that's the type of like, I mean, and you look at some of the Patriots dress where they took McCordian Gronk in the same dress. It's like, you know, you know what I mean?
00:28:43
Savage Boston
great draft
00:28:44
Snooty
Like that's where you get like a couple, but they had a few drafts like that in two or two or three or two or three year span where it's like, yeah, of course you're going to be pretty fucking good. Cause you just took, you know, six dynamic talents that are, you know, foundational pieces.
00:28:58
Snooty
Like that's how you get good.
Optimism for Patriots' Future Success
00:29:00
Snooty
And that's why it's like the, I don't necessarily think you need to spend all this money on high price.
00:29:05
Savage Boston
Great draft.
00:29:06
Snooty
free agents, you know, T Higgins might be worth it just because of his age. Ronnie Lee might just because you, eggs you fucking blow it left tackle and you don't really have any other option, particularly in the draft, you know, but if you sign Ronnie Stanley, that's your big ticket, you fill it out with average players elsewhere, you draft a dual card or a four.
00:29:16
Savage Boston
Mm hmm.
00:29:27
Snooty
You know, you get some better coaching, you get some, some consistency in there and all of a sudden, you know, you're off and running. You could be a borderline playoff team. I'm not looking to make the playoffs necessarily next year, but I want you to be in the hunt towards for most of the, most of the season.
00:29:42
Snooty
That's, I'm looking for split your division and wins seven, eight games somewhere in there that have been show growth from quarterback.
00:29:43
Savage Boston
Yes.
00:29:50
Snooty
And that's a, that's a good, that's a good season for next year. Reasonably speaking.
00:29:55
Savage Boston
Yeah, I think um there's so much potential in what they could like it can But at least you know if you break down between, you we're obviously talking about coaching, um because that's what's happening right now. um But at least you have one part of the roster between like the front office, the coaches, and the players. One part of the team, I think, is is so much stronger than last year.
00:30:21
Savage Boston
I mean, with Mike Grable and Josh McDaniels, I mean, bar none, you are way better than you were last year by every measure. um So that you you build on that. And now it's like, all right, at least I feel confident that they have the coaches to actually put this thing into in a play here. um And then now it's like, you know, I guess we have to wait till March 12th for free agency, which feels feels long, but really, you know, it'll come up quick.
00:30:49
Savage Boston
um And then that's gonna be when the real fireworks start and they're gonna have to really figure out how to truly build out this roster because we all don't trust the front office. um And and you know the one thing you can hold your hat on is they have Drake met.
00:31:03
Snooty
you got the senior bowl coming up and then after that you got the combine and then shortly after the comments when free agency starts, but you also got sprinkling a few pro days here and there, you know, like the NFL does a very good job of maximizing the full year window, right?
00:31:18
Snooty
So there's, there's always something on to to follow.
00:31:19
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:31:22
Snooty
Um, And you know, at that point, maybe you can start to get some clarity on the quarterback situation. Did Will Howard play his way into, you know, he's going to have all the measurements and stuff. Like, did he play his way into being a first on consideration for quarterback?
00:31:36
Bret
That would be huge.
00:31:36
Snooty
like You know, I just want options at four. Maybe someone gets crazy and offers you something stupid and you're like, okay, you know, uh, first and second this year and a first and second next year to drop from four to, I don't know, eight.
00:31:51
Snooty
Okay. Yeah. You probably do that because then maybe will Campbell's a better option at eight.
00:31:53
Savage Boston
even know
00:31:56
Snooty
If he's there or, you know what I mean? But you've also picked up all this extra ammunition and you can go flip picks for, you know, DK Metcalfe or something like, you know, and you got some flexibility even next year's draft. I know everybody says it every year that next year's draft is projected to be better than this year's. But if you truly feel that this draft isn't worth it, then picks next year might be worth it for, you know,
00:32:18
Snooty
and Maybe that gives you some more ammo to go get someone. Some of a sudden, some receiver is you know wants a new contract and bubble blah, blah, blah. Okay, now he's able to shake free a little bit. You can go get him you know by moving some of your extra picks. Who knows? I just want options. Will Howard, Shoot of the Boards, give give us some options at four.
00:32:39
Savage Boston
I don't know who would want to trade. I mean, like boy we said, it doesn't feel like the draft is that at that level, especially at the quarterback position, which Shader and Cam, like I really don't know who's going to want to trade up to four. But that is, I do think as we get closer to the draft, my prediction, um you're you're you're going to see probably Carter and Travis Hunter get taken in the top four.
00:33:05
Savage Boston
Um, probably even the top three and I think there's a real chance you miss both those guys. Um, so obviously we'll have all these scenarios planned out, but I think if you miss Carter and Travis Hunter, you have to find a trade partner down.
00:33:19
Savage Boston
Maybe that's you trade to six with the Raiders. Right. And they jump up and get, make sure they get shitter and you get an extra second or something. You know what I mean? Like that's some level of draft currency, but like
00:33:27
Snooty
Yeah.
00:33:30
Savage Boston
Then once you get down to the lower top 10, then I want to draft Will Campbell. And he's still the consensus number one tackle right now, because he did have a really good season and is a good player.
00:33:43
Savage Boston
He's a really athletic big kid. They're talking about his arm length, but someone brought up the case. How big are Penny Sewell's arms? You know the length of Penny Sewell's arms?
Evaluating the Patriots' Roster
00:33:53
Snooty
No.
00:33:54
Bret
No.
00:33:54
Savage Boston
It's 32, 33. He's only in the 18th percentile of arm length. I think he's pretty good.
00:34:01
Snooty
Yeah, it's it's a factor of a bunch of things because it also factors in athleticism and and technique Because you can overcome some of that with techniques.
00:34:07
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:34:10
Snooty
I'm certainly sometimes you can't I mean this kid he's six six I've just read a lot of people, you know Brandon Thorne and and and stuff like that that say he projects much better to in a guard than he does a tackle um You know, I mean And she I don't care you need a guard too so
00:34:14
Savage Boston
yeah
00:34:21
Savage Boston
He's still 6'6". I mean, he can play tackle.
00:34:31
Snooty
you know You know You what if he's Quentin Nelson Yeah, but relative but let's say if you're at eight and Carter's obviously gone by that point like What if he's the best player available?
00:34:32
Savage Boston
Yeah, but you're not going to take a guard at like eight.
00:34:37
Savage Boston
I still don't necessarily put the value on that position. I truly there's probably other better players you can take with that. Talk best player available, right? Like that's.
00:34:54
Snooty
even at guard The position values that there but
00:34:57
Savage Boston
I don't know. I mean, address we're not, I think I tried to force him to tackle for a couple of years. And obviously if he's not a tackle, he's not a tackle, but.
00:35:03
Snooty
Oh no, if you take him, if you take him, you give him every chance to play tackle here. I mean, cause that's where, you know, that's where the value is. That's been his position. I'm sure he'd want to do it, but you know, is he Rob?
00:35:16
Snooty
I mean, Robert gallery, right? Like Robert gallery had shorter arms and he was a menace.
00:35:18
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:35:21
Snooty
He was a mean prick, but like he, well, but she has to think he was a very good guard.
00:35:23
Savage Boston
Didn't pan out.
00:35:28
Snooty
He just wasn't a very good left tackle, but like,
00:35:30
Savage Boston
Yeah. I think I'd a rather draft, if they're going to trade down, you draft Campbell, then you sign, you know, if Ronnie Stanley wants to come here, sign Ronnie Stanley for big money, you know, try to sign another guard. Do you hope, you know, with then will Campbell can play the right side or, you know, and then you have to draft a guard or hope you're good on the inside, you know, like if you bolster with two new tackles, like I'm, I'm into that. Um,
00:35:58
Savage Boston
And I think that can change the face of the line, but like, I'm kind of like want for able to fuck around with the roster. Like I want him to look at everybody and I know he's going to do this, but I'm going want to look at every receiver and be like, who, who deserves to be in this room? Especially the receiver position. Cause it's just been so poor for, for too long now, but like who, who's earned the right to be here? Who wants to be here?
00:36:21
Savage Boston
You know, Kendrick Bourne did pretty darn well with Josh three years ago, so I'm gonna assume Kendrick's gonna stay. But like, Jalen Polk, is he gonna develop? Is he the guy? I know he's a second-round pick, but he does he earn this locker room?
00:36:34
Savage Boston
ah Baker, does Baker, does he earn this locker? He said he's gonna make people stand up out of wheelchairs before the season started. Has he earned a place in this v locker room? You know, and so that's what I want them to evaluate.
00:36:45
Bret
No.
00:36:47
Savage Boston
Who's earned a place here on the offense? Because it's been so fucking bad.
00:36:50
Bret
That's a solid quote, though.
00:36:51
Snooty
I forgot about that quote.
00:36:53
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:36:56
Savage Boston
Gets out, gets drafted. He's like, I make people in wheelchairs stand up. And then he had one catch, I think, on the season. Great job.
00:37:05
Bret
Historically bad season, historically bad.
00:37:06
Savage Boston
like Great, great goal. Jalen Pollack's measurables this season were horrific. So I don't know. I think that kid genuinely had some mental issues throughout the season. Um, cause he's better than that, man.
00:37:17
Savage Boston
He's better than what he showed. He's got to be better. Cause I was just in atrocious season from Polk. He's a worse than Akil Harry. I've never seen a season like that from a high receiver pick.
00:37:28
Savage Boston
I was brutal. That's not true. Like Taekwon Thorin has done absolutely nothing.
00:37:31
Snooty
ah Chad Jackson Bethel Johnson Bethel Johnson Aaron Dobson Taylor price
00:37:33
Bret
Well, I was also going to say, uh, Nikhil Harry was the first rounder.
00:37:33
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:37:38
Savage Boston
Harry had more production than these guys though.
00:37:41
Bret
Yeah.
00:37:42
Savage Boston
So that's a big one.
00:37:42
Bret
Yeah. No, we've had, uh, I, our history on drafting wide receivers has got to be one of the worst in the league.
00:37:53
Bret
It's gotta be one of the worst. I bet you, if we looked at.
00:37:55
Savage Boston
We were training up for Chad Jackson. I thought he was going to be a stud, Chad Jackson from Florida.
00:37:59
Bret
Yeah. Jackson out of Florida.
00:38:00
Snooty
yeah Yeah, Lawrence Maroney and Chad Jackson, what a freaking draft.
00:38:01
Savage Boston
Yeah, I was like, oh, dude, this guy.
00:38:01
Bret
Yeah.
00:38:05
Bret
I bet you if we look at our hit ratio on wide receivers compared to the rest of the league, I don't know what the statistic line measure or how you'd look at it, but I just know we'd be the worst because we are so historically bad now.
00:38:14
Savage Boston
Dude, hits and misses. i there's I've looked at this stuff. There's some really bad hit slash miss rate for draft picks by position. Let me look this up.
00:38:25
Savage Boston
Hold on you guys talk and
00:38:28
Bret
Are we looking at specific position like wide receiver or are we looking at like
00:38:28
Snooty
I mean, I'm trying to think.
00:38:34
Bret
Because wide receiver has been sorely missed.
00:38:36
Snooty
you think it was the detail it took out of florida yes below both his knees yes
00:38:40
Bret
Oh, he had bad knees too. What the fuck is his name? I can't remember. He was de-tackle. He was a little bit undersized, bad knees. Yes, easily.
00:38:51
Savage Boston
Okay, I found that okay. I found the chart. This is the ah Love this chart. I'm gonna make sure to save this picture. Okay, so this is what I'm looking for Schefter shared this This is from data from 20 drafts from 2000 2019 from yeah ESPN content producer Paul Hembo um Now again, this doesn't include the last few years. Maybe it gets better probably not but this is a First round hit or miss rate and it's based upon whether the player signed a second contract with the team that drafted them which like isn't a perfect measure, but it's a measure, right?
00:39:25
Savage Boston
Just for the sake of the exercise. ah Center is by far the highest at 92% hit. There's only 11 taken, or sorry, 12 taken, 11 hits.
00:39:35
Snooty
Yeah.
00:39:35
Savage Boston
Offensive tackle, second highest at 59%, right? Where 64 were taken, we got 38 hits. Guard.
00:39:42
Bret
It's kind of surprising.
00:39:44
Savage Boston
These are all aligned, then guard is a 50% hit, 28 taken, 14 hits, linebacker 48%. Quarterback in the first round is actually, they have a 46%, which is actually, you know, not bad. Edge rusher 44%, tackle, de-tackle 40%, then it goes down to quarterbacks are only a 38% first round hit, running backs 38, safety 34, tight end 33, and then the worst is wide receiver with only a 27% first round hit rate.
00:40:12
Snooty
That's because they draft a million fucking receivers every year.
00:40:15
Savage Boston
Brutal.
00:40:16
Snooty
Well, it's part it part of that. I wonder how much the market actually impacts that, because you can draft a receiver legitimately every year. like There's always fucking receivers coming everywhere. And I wonder, there's never enough alignment.
00:40:28
Snooty
So I wonder if they're like, well, he's not great, but you know like he's OK, and he knows our system, and we like him, and you know what I mean? like That type of thing.
00:40:37
Savage Boston
you know
00:40:38
Snooty
Whereas you can just replace receivers. it Obviously the top guys you can't replace, but like you can draft your receiver every fucking year. Every year.
00:40:47
Bret
What was the, uh, what was it running back again?
00:40:48
Snooty
ah
00:40:50
Savage Boston
Running back was low too. Running back was 38% hit rate.
00:40:52
Bret
Well, yeah.
00:40:56
Bret
Yeah.
00:40:57
Savage Boston
But again, this is just judging by whether they got a second contract.
00:41:00
Bret
Second contract.
00:41:00
Savage Boston
Like you could go through some of these guys were hits and they refused to sign here or something like that.
00:41:01
Snooty
Yeah.
00:41:05
Savage Boston
So it's, it's again, it's not perfect, but I think giving you the gist that clearly the safest to draft, you know, clearly the safest to draft offensive lineman.
00:41:11
Snooty
Up front.
00:41:15
Savage Boston
You know, that's the safest,
Conclusion and Wrap-up
00:41:17
Savage Boston
quote, unquote. It doesn't mean it's the best, but it's the safest, and it's harder to draft skill positions. Lineback are higher than I thought. That almost 50% is pretty good, so. All right, I'm gonna wrap it up so this plot doesn't look too daunting for everybody. We're at 41 minutes. All right, we will check in with you guys next time. See you later.
00:41:35
Snooty
Yeah.
00:41:35
Bret
Peace.