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Episode 29 The current and future landscape of Covid litigation
77 Plays2 years ago
Will we ever see justice for Covid crimes against humanity?
I had Warner Mendenhall and Kathryn Huwig, co-founders of Liberty Counsel, on the show to discuss just that.
Unfortunately, there are far too many victims to get justice for every single one of them. There just aren’t enough lawyers and resources in the world to make it happen.
And since there are so many victims of employee mandates, vaccine injuries, hospital protocols, and more, trying to treat each one as an individual medical malpractice case is impractical with so many victims.
That’s why Warner and Kathryn created Freedom Counsel.
Warner is a rockstar attorney who has been litigating various Covid-related cases across the country.
Kathryn is the strategist behind the organization who’s coming up with some creative and novel ways to attack such a monumental task at scale so that as many victims as possible are able to get justice.
We had an informative discussion about the various areas of Covid litigation and the challenges they are facing as lawyers and experts in this space.
Despite the many hurdles and the long time frame we’re looking at for true justice, we are winning in a great number of cases. It’s just that you won’t hear about many of these outcomes due to non-disclosure agreements and sealed court cases.
Kathryn and Warner are doing hero’s work at Freedom Counsel. Tune in if you want to hear updates about what’s going on in the legal front and how you can help.
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Transcript
Zencastr's New Clip Feature
00:00:00
Speaker
If you've listened to my show before, then you've surely heard me rave about podcasting with Zencaster. I love using Zencaster because they make podcasting easy. And I'm happy to announce that the platform that makes podcasting easy is making it even easier. Zencaster now enables you to create your own clips with captions as part of the post-production process. Now, you could keep creating clips the suckers way, which is how I was doing it up until now, which entailed watching segments of your podcast on your phone, screen recording your phone, trimming the clip, importing it to CapCut, adding in some captions, and then finally exporting them back to your phone.
00:00:41
Speaker
I mean, it worked, but it wasted hours of my time. With Zencaster, all you have to do is look through the transcript, highlight the sections you want clipped out, choose your font styles for the captions, and they take care of the rest. Easy peasy. So if you like doing things the easy way, then check out Zencaster. Go to libertyalliancenetwork dot.com slash zen spelled Z-E-N to get started. That's libertyalliancenetwork.com slash zen. Let's get back to the show.
Introduction to Guests
00:01:31
Speaker
All right, welcome back to another episode of Liberty Alliance Networks. What can we do? I'm Haley Heathman, and I am delighted to be joined by two people doing heroic work in the COVID litigation space, Warner Mendenhall and Catherine Hewig. Warner and Catherine are the co-founders of Freedom Council, an organization that aims to bring together lawyers, experts, and citizens in order to build a society dedicated to promoting and protecting freedom. Warner has been instrumental in litigating numerous COVID cases across the country. And today we're going to talk to Warner and Catherine about the current and future legal landscape when it comes to getting justice for COVID crimes against humanity.
COVID Litigation and Political Movements
00:02:11
Speaker
So Warner and Catherine, welcome to the show.
00:02:14
Speaker
Hey, Haley. Thank you. All right. So let's just jump right in. um Let's just start big picture. So like paint me a picture now of what the legal landscape looks like. you know Just like big picture, there's no shortage of people in places that need to be sued. So what types are of cases are you litigating? What are you having most success with? And just give me a big picture overview of where it's all at right now. Well, first of all, and Catherine can verify this, it's an endless train of people who've been hurt by the shots and by hospitals and by their employers across the nation. So unfortunately, I mean, on the one hand, there is no way that we can ever get justice for the majority of people. I wish we could.
00:02:58
Speaker
ah But we're goingnna we need a broad political movement on top of this ah to get that kind of justice and and to respond to everything that happened to us. And we can see that there needs to be all kinds of protection for people's health decisions. ah since when have employers, for example, mandated medical treatment. I mean, that was never in my lifetime. And now all of a sudden, employers think they can do that. So we need to roll that back. And and there's efforts legislatively across the country to do that. We need to be aware of those and support those. ah But on the litigation battle front, I think it's very important that we proceed with this litigation, even though we can't get ah justice for these huge numbers of people. We need to get some justice in those courts.
00:03:45
Speaker
And the issue with the litigation is that in all the stuff that we're doing, and I can go through sort of some of the categories of these areas of litigation, but in all the stuff that we're doing, we are exposing what the processes were, and we're exposing what the evidence is ah that really applied to many, many people. You know, we've seen former feds, for example, came up with their list of commonalities with the deaths by hospital, right? And I think that's, so that comparative effort is very important for us to understand what happened to us, understand how systemic it was.
Class Actions and Legal Victories
00:04:23
Speaker
um And, you know, and and I think that exposure is going to lead to change. What would you add to that, Catherine?
00:04:32
Speaker
oh yeah i mean What you were talking about there where you know you cannot take on every single case individually, that that is just a physical impossibility. i mean Even if we had all the lawyers in the world on our side, there'd still be too much. so One of the things that that Freedom Council really is looking at doing is How do we expand beyond the norm? How do we do it beyond just ah one case at a time kind of litigation and you know reach towards what what we're all looking for, which is which is that accountability ah for what has happened and make sure that it it never happens again. So I think that's about all I'd add there.
00:05:11
Speaker
Yeah. but you know And I think that when you're talking about large numbers of like victims ah in this area, the first thing that people think of would be like a class action lawsuit. But from my understanding, that's not really applicable in this situation. So tell me why it's not applicable and how what else you have to be able to get justice to as big a number of people as possible. Well, it depends, okay? So, you're you're you're probably not going to have class actions for vaccine vaccine injuries, ah quote, unquote, vaccine injuries or hospital injuries, because those are very individualized, very specific. Though, ah you know, I think we need to continue to look at that. For example, on the shots, we know that those are adulterated shots.
00:05:57
Speaker
We know they didn't reveal all the ingredients to the public or to government. And so maybe something does open up with that. And we're certainly alert to that possibility. Hospital cases, I mean, unfortunately, I find it very hard to contemplate how we get to a class status for these hospital cases, even though we have some hospitals that just killed thousands and thousands of people. But on the employment side, there are many class actions going on. And United Airlines is one right now that is seeming to make progress. We have one against the University of California Regents for 220,000 employees out there. but There is a military pay class action for all the people who are relieved from duty ah for refusing the emergency use authorization. So class actions are very effective when these employers and have done wrong
00:06:47
Speaker
ah to their employees and and it's being addressed across the nation. And we've had incredible victories in this last couple in the last couple of years on the employment side that have really helped us. The Groff decision last year helped to say that employers have to show a real hardship ah in order to fire somebody for their religious beliefs. And they simply can't do it. And and the simplest reason is that clearly the shots are ineffective. ah They don't stop transmission. They don't do anything for your fellow workers. And in fact, they may be harmful. We've seen certainly have anecdotal reports.
00:07:27
Speaker
that in in industries where many of the employees have gotten the shots, there's a lot of additional absenteeism because of the illness that's coming from the shots. So these arguments are falling apart. And and i give you I'll give you the case that really helped us a lot recently. was the Health Freedom Defense Fund versus Carvalho out of the Ninth Circuit. That case set forth that if a shot like this, if whether it's a vaccine or anything, if it's really not helping to do what it says, which is prevent transmission, then there's then you cannot mandate it but it. That violates even the basic rules under Jacobson. So in every complaint now, i
00:08:12
Speaker
In every complaint, the attorneys really need to allege, hey, they are ineffective. They don't prevent transmission. And by the way, they may be of detriment to the public health.
Impact of High-Profile Cases
00:08:22
Speaker
And and then we can go in and argue that. Catherine knows we've got the data. We've got the experts. you know They've been in touch with us. And so you know the attorneys around the country can make that argument now. Well, and I think there was a recent decision too that just came out. There was a huge settlement or an award. Was it a Tennessee woman who got like almost $700,000 from a wrongful termination lawsuit? I think should they discriminateate discriminated against her religious beliefs and she actually ended up winning that case. you know I'm not sure if you were directly involved in that, but can you maybe explain what happened there?
00:08:59
Speaker
I can and she's similar to some of the clients that we represent. She was a fully remote worker and they were requiring her to get the shot. Well, you know, you heard just heard what I said about the effectiveness of it. She didn't even have that argument necessarily. It was just that whether she got the shot or not, it didn't matter to her fellow employees because she wasn't present. She was offsite, she was fully remote and would continue to work remotely. so that That fact is very important in that case, and there are many examples of that in cases that are currently pending. She had a pretty high-paying job, ah and she got her back pay, I think it was about, it was close to $200,000 in back pay, and then the jury did put a punitive a award on there, meaning they intended to discriminate against her ah for the $500,000. And I think, I can see how the jury would see that, because they're logical. ah The employer simply wasn't being logical.
00:09:54
Speaker
And they they couldn't come up with another explanation, but that that employer intended to discriminate because he was overlooking basic logic. Well, and when you start to see some of these favorable decisions shake out, pretty especially like a large one like that, does that, I guess, ah give way for other cases to come forward? And maybe when you see large payouts like that, does that motivate other lawyers to maybe think, aha, maybe I should start taking on some of these cases? I sure hope that it does. I'll tell you what it what all of these good decisions have is a ripple effect because most cases are are settling, right? 99% of these cases settle. You're not going to hear about them. There's non-disclosures that are signed, but that ripple effect ripples out into the world.
00:10:40
Speaker
And the employers tend to give better settlements, tend to give a little bit more money. So I would say that wonderful attorney and plaintiff in Tennessee that took it all the way to trial, they just put money in all the lawyer's pockets. Well, and I know you, you you know, we just were at the hospital protocols conference in Orlando, Florida. And one of the speakers there, Scott Shara, ah who is Awful case with ah his daughter who had down syndrome. She was 19 years old I believe and she was murdered in the hospital basically and you spoke about the fact that Fortunately in his case, you know He is in a position where he doesn't have to settle and he doesn't want to that he has enough money to kind of keep the case going on its own merits and In that kind of case which is you know we're fortunate to have what is the ultimate result you're hoping for me and it does doesn't seem realistic that we're gonna be like bankrupting these hospital groups or nobody's going to jail over this so what is the ultimate like goal for a case like that.
00:11:46
Speaker
Well, Scott has been a marvelous person to yeah be engaged in this fight because he can fund this type of case. And that really helps us to generate, in a very public way, but the discovery, the depositions, the jury instructions. the you know Everything involved in that case will be shared with the world, thanks to Scott. and And that model can then show other attorneys, for example, you know what happened in the case. and And that model also helps to scare these hospitals because this is going to cost them millions of dollars just to defend the case.
00:12:24
Speaker
regardless of whether they ever pay out anything to Scott Shara. And Scott knows that the, you know, the battlefield is a raid against him. ah He trusts in God and ah he trusts in his attorneys to do the best they can to win that case for him. But it's going to have an impact, again, far beyond just the Scott, yeah you know, just the the case for his daughter, Grace. Yeah. You would like to think that these hospitals and these companies would have learned their lesson, particularly if they do have to settle enough of these cases. But unfortunately, I feel like I'm not sure that they are. You look at the nursing shortages that are still occurring all across the country,
00:13:06
Speaker
And a lot lot of it has to do with the vaccine mandates, particularly with like traveling nurses and everything, but they're like desperate for nurses. And yet they won't acknowledge, number one, that their theirre their mandates is what caused part of, at least in part. um And number two, they won't backtrack on it. So like, you would like to think that they are going to learn and yet it doesn't seem like these people are capable of doing so. I don't know. Well, I think Scott's case is one of those really important ones where it really shows that what these hospitals and and employers too react to is bad publicity. I mean, there' there's limitations on on how much the settlements can actually be. And as as Warner was talking about, I mean, they're they're silent. And and so it's in their best interest to get it settled and get it silent.
00:13:53
Speaker
But these these hospitals in particular, they do react when there's bad publicity. They they do react when we know hundreds of thousands of people call their hospital and complain about what they've done when they hear about it. and I think that's really the most important thing that comes out of something like like Scott's case, which is and that publicity, that that knowledge that it happened. and that they can't just hide from it. They can't just bury it and say, oh, you know, just as you were just describing there, where it's like, you guys never learned from it. You never acknowledged it. You never did any of that. And I think what's really, really important but for for all of this in order to get that accountability is that that publicity that, you know, it's not just one and done and over, but rather, no, you did this.
00:14:38
Speaker
and This is why it was wrong and and this is not something that disappears and so that you have to actually change what you've done or what you're going to do going forward.
Freedom Council and Alternative Strategies
00:14:49
Speaker
Yeah, and you know just and knowing that this isn't going away anytime soon. you know um There are people who are now watching, who are you know ready to hold these doctors and hospitals accountable, and that this isn't just something like, oh, I'm going to settle, and then we can forget about it. This is going to stay, at least in a not insignificant portion of the public's mind and eye, where they are going to be facing increased scrutiny over their behaviors.
00:15:15
Speaker
Switching gears katherine you know you're not a lawyer but why don't you tell me what your role is with freedom counsel. Yeah i suppose my i mean my my early background is in science ends and then i get all tangled up and in in the end. legal aspect of it here, but really what I what i do is I look at the the bigger picture. Warner looks at the cases themselves, you know each individual one as its own individual case, but what we were just talking about there, how do we how do we take it further? How do we take it beyond what the norm is, the normal, this is a case, it is self-contained, it's over, and the you know whoever the
00:15:55
Speaker
The plaintiff was, ah they get their settlement or whatever it was that they needed and then it goes quietly away. And and we can't do that. we We can't allow it to just go quietly away. We have to have some level of directionality to it so that ah there is that longer term accountability and make sure that it never happens again. And also just simply how do we cope with the scale of it? I mean, we've talked about these hospital homicides. There's tens of thousands. How do you deal with that? You cannot approach them in a way of individual medical malpractice cases. And in each one of those cases is hundreds of thousands of dollars and it takes years upon years to do. And like I said at the beginning, there are not enough attorneys in the world to be able to handle this.
00:16:38
Speaker
So, what other ways can we go about looking at these that does expose what the hospitals did, whether or not it's medical malpractice? One of the things that we're talking about is looking at these hospital systems ah for fraud, specifically using Warner's favorite False Claims Act, ah because we know that they did these things for money. And and when they're doing things for money, that's right with fraud. so How do we go? How do we compare the different records? How do we figure out what it was that they were doing and and build up that evidence base and really expose the scale of what they did? and And just in general, thinking outside the box in terms of how do we use the victims themselves? ah For instance, when you're talking about people who took the shot and who are injured, ah you know the the PrEP Act is is a really bad law that that has covered
00:17:33
Speaker
ah the use, any damage from the use of the covered countermeasures, including these shots, so you can't really go straight on. So how do you very publicly expose what they've done? and do it using the individuals themselves. Because again, not enough attorneys, they cannot do it all
Catherine's Data-Driven Approach
00:17:51
Speaker
themselves. So how do we get individuals engaged in this process, even if it's not specifically litigation, but how do you engage with that whole process? I would say, yeah, in in general, I'm kind of more that that larger overarching picture, the the larger strategy, how do we bring in all these different people into this situation and get it in a way that is useful to the litigation.
00:18:14
Speaker
Right. Yeah. And you know, you and I, we connected in person at the Tom School of Life Unconference recently. And because I had watched the webinar that you you and Warner did together for the membership base there, as soon as I saw you, I was like, Hey, I know who that is. So I was like, i see I zeroed in. And then low, you know, I didn't know it at the time, but I was like, Oh, I'm sitting next to a VIP because Catherine got special VIP recognition from Tom. at the unconference. ah Yes, I'm putting you on the spot, Catherine. I didn't know I was going to get put on the spot then either. i was I was also kind of stunned. Yeah. Well, we'll take your flowers. and But Tom, he really holds a special place in his heart for you because of how you handled and what you did in Ohio against the Ohio legislation during COVID. So why don't you give us a little bit of background about what you did that was so heroic. and In Tom's mind, I think it involves
00:19:10
Speaker
using their own charts against them, if I'm not mistaken. So can you tell us more about what that was? Yeah, that's my favorite thing to do. Make people eat their own words. That's that's the most fun thing ever. And it was actually quite easy to do during COVID because it was so ridiculous. and Yeah, so i I started out in 2020, you know, knowing that this was all nonsense. One of my one of my majors was evolutionary biology. And I actually did have an entire course just on the epidemiology and evolution of human diseases. So I understood the science behind all of this. I didn't have any of the politics of public health. So I knew instantaneously when they were shutting down that this was the worst possible thing you could do. um I also saw the experts out there getting shut down left and right and realized there's nobody here who's going to come and save us. And that the only thing that would would stop this is when enough normal people said enough. And so the way I did was able to to deal with that was we had our Governor Divine, he had his daily press conferences every single day, and he would just tout the data. And the data was just absolute nonsense. I mean, all you have to do is just look at it and and you can see that they were manipulating it. And so I ended up with a Facebook group of over 10,000 people just analyzing the data from the state of Ohio.
00:20:31
Speaker
and just showing people in very practical ways, ah you know common sense, let's just look at this. Does it make sense that somebody dies? And then the next day they get COVID. Clearly that doesn't make any sense. I mean, it's obviously a mistake, but it's something that should be cleaned up. And especially when Governor DeWine was constantly hammering all these ridiculous numbers to to push his agenda. ah so So what I did is kind of set this this whole story of how to explain how they're being manipulated and and so that people knew what was going on and could go to there.
00:21:07
Speaker
you know, local politicians or school boards or whatever with the knowledge of of what the numbers were really saying and be able to to ask the questions saying, i'm you know, I don't understand, please explain it to me because clearly you're some greater smarter person so you can clearly explain this. And so one of the things that I did was I testify, I had podcasts, I had that group, and I testified at the Ohio State House about these about the data that it was not well kept and a part of that was a was a short little thing. I just used the the ICU bed usage um a graph of it with you know no the-axis was or the x and y-axis was removed so you couldn't you didn't know what was going on you didn't know what time it was and and you could just see that it was a very basic curve you couldn't see any of the interventions we did. This is actually the same way that that Warner encountered me too was that one little part of the uh
00:22:05
Speaker
of that testimony went viral, not the part where I was talking about how bad the data was, but just that little part. And the the nice part about that is it's very simple and it works anywhere and everywhere. You don't need to be an expert to understand this. You can see that. And and and it's an easy question for anybody to ask and you can't ever get an answer from it. So i I don't know if that fully answers the question. Yeah. in the Let me clarify that just for a minute, Catherine. What she did is ask them to look at these curves, up and down curves of of impact, and say, where did the intervention happen?
00:22:45
Speaker
You know, because you would say, oh, it must have happened here where it went down. Well, that's just is not how it worked. The interventions clearly had no impact and none of the experts at the state of Ohio could tell you where they had an impact. This is ridiculous. And she just showed that these emperors had no clothes on. Yeah. and And Tom Woods did that heroically also in his book, Diary of a Psychosis. And they weren't necessarily his charts. He was using like Ian Miller. Ian Miller was very prominent in doing a lot of these charts that would show, you know, county, like you could put two neighboring counties, one county that had mask mandates or other mandates in another county that didn't. And you would, you know, you could overlay the charts and you couldn't tell the difference one way or another be between one county or another. So
00:23:29
Speaker
You know one state to another state one country from another country There's just no way of looking at any of these charts if any of these, you know NPIs as they're called Not, you know non-pharmaceutical interventions had made a difference. It should show up clearly on On a graph or a chart and it didn't not whatsoever I mean you might see this or that but it's more happenstance than anything. I mean just coincidental so now Catherine you mentioned the prep act and that That is a huge obstacle for moving forward with a lot of these cases. can you know Either one of you, do you want to discuss what the PREP Act is and you know how we can what creative ways we're trying to think of how to get around it?
PREP Act and Legal Loopholes
00:24:12
Speaker
You want me to go? I will, if you want. to well just i mean Really simply, in the PREP Act you know removes liability for anyone who's implementing a covered countermeasure.
00:24:26
Speaker
Okay, so just in the most simple broad term, so that includes treatments like Remdesivir, it includes the vaccines, you know, includes, you know, these treatments, but you know what, we have, you know, there's a couple of ways around it. The first way around it is what we call COVID blindness at the hospitals. They were so blinded to anything else, but COVID that everybody that came in was a COVID patient. That simply was not true. And so when they mistreated somebody as a COVID patient, when it really wasn't COVID, they're liable. So that's a simple that's a simple fact. So we have one case where it was a community acquired bacterial pneumonia. They didn't treat that properly, instead treated the lady for COVID. She died. They're they' they're on the hook for that.
00:25:12
Speaker
The other thing that we are getting at, and Catherine was alluding to a bit earlier, is that in the compilation of the evidence across these cases, what we see are patterns of fraud. The the hospitals were incentivized to create COVID patients, and then I use the word create knowingly. They're creating COVID patients so they can get all the bonuses from the federal government. Well, that's fraud. So we think that, and that's not covered by the PrEP Act. you can't You can't defraud the the American taxpayer and get immunity from that. And and on top of that, there's a civil way to recover. That's my part. There's a criminal way to recover. So ultimately, there may be a way, if we had the proper administration in place, to hold these entities criminally liable.
00:26:03
Speaker
and The other thing I would add to that to to really be very very explicit about is the PREP Act covers the administration of the covered countermeasure and I think that's that's like the key word in all of this is and and that's been borne out in these different kinds of um hospital protocol cases, where just as Warner was just describing, I mean, okay, not giving antibiotics is not harm that is caused by the administration of a covered countermeasure. It has nothing to do with it. And cases like that, we've been able to just walk right around the PrEP Act. There's no there's no challenge whatsoever. Another interesting case ah pretty recently was a case where
00:26:45
Speaker
A woman was given prescribed ivermectin in the hospital by her hospitalist and the hospital administration but took it away after five days and she had improved over those five days. They took it away. They had to go to court to get a court order to to give more ivermectin again prescribed by the the doctor at the hospital and she got it again she improved and then ah the hospital administration stopped the administration of it again um and unfortunately by the third time she she passed away but there was a recent ruling on that case where the ivermectin
00:27:24
Speaker
not the ivermectin, not giving the ivermectin, was not considered a covered countermeasure either for the purposes of the PrEP Act, which is, that's another really interesting one where not giving ivermectin is not covered by the PrEP Act, or giving ivermectin is also not covered by the yeah PrEP Act. So each of these things is, ah you know, instead of focusing only on, oh, this person has COVID, and that means they must be covered for anything and everything that they've done, but rather to focus on whatever damage happened that had nothing to do with the administration of a covered counter measurement.
00:28:00
Speaker
it's And the the injuries from the shots are a lot more difficult because that really is right there in the center of it. I mean, a person developed some kind of a problem after the shot, well, that that damage is caused obviously by the administration of this covered countermeasure. So we have to think about the other ways, like Werner was talking about with fraud. ah But that one's much more difficult for sure because it does really go straight down the line of prep act. Are you tired of talking about liberty in the abstract? Have you grown weary of theorizing about how some distant future anarcho-capitalist society would deal with water rights? Are you hungry for practical liberty actions that deal with society in the here and now?
00:28:45
Speaker
and not some imaginary future, then join other doers and problem solvers on Team Reality in Tom's School of Life. Tom Woods is a New York Times bestselling author, historian, and libertarian super podcaster with over 2,500 episodes under his belt. He's created Tom's School of Life as a way to bring together liberty lovers and otherwise sane people who are tired of living in clown world and are determined to find freedom in an unfree world. He hosts twice monthly webinars on topics that are actionable and of interest to his members. Things like legal ways to pay less in taxes, or how to navigate the transgender issue with psychologist Miriam Grossman, who is featured in the smash documentary, What is a Woman? And of course, my two guests today, Warner and Catherine, also gave an outstanding presentation to the many interested members of the Tom School of Life.
00:29:41
Speaker
Catherine was also honored as a VIP guest at the recent annual Tom School of Life Unconference, an in-person event that is included in your membership at the Tom School of Life. Oh, and I haven't even mentioned the accountability groups you can join. This is where you can work with your own little mastermind or brain collective to get feedback and advice on any of the projects you're working on or ideas you want to bring to life in pursuance of your own personal liberty and autonomy. It's all happening at the Tom School of Life. Find out more about all the amazing benefits at libertyalliancenetwork.com slash TSOL for Tom School of Life. That's libertyalliancenetwork dot.com slash TSOL.
Hospital Protocols and Public Awareness
00:30:25
Speaker
See you in there when talking about these hospital protocols i think the average person if you were to say. You know and maybe you've encountered this like hey we're suing you know we're trying to see these hospitals for their protocols and if you just ask the normal person i mean they might be confused like well they were just trying to treat cove it i mean you know like that how dare you. Try and come after these hospitals they were just trying to do their job and treat coven the best they could they're just doing the best that they could. And like a million people died that's what happens during a pandemic people die so like. I don't think they have this knowledge have you encountered maybe like these normies that just have no idea and how do you explain it to them or get through to them.
00:31:08
Speaker
It's not even just normies. I mean, I was unaware of it. I mean, i it doesn't matter. I mean, I was deeply involved in in the everything surrounding COVID since the very beginning. And I was unaware how bad it was ah until until after the fact. And we really do the work of the former feds group, that their collection of those stories. That that really was super powerful. ah but I do think that these hospital homicide cases are ones that that is the biggest unknown horror that happened here. i A lot of the times when I'm talking to, like I said, even people who are very well aware of, you know, the injuries from the shots or the shutdowns or all that are are usually unaware of these hospital protocol killings. And one of the things I do is is I do send them to to former feds in their list of things
00:31:59
Speaker
of all these stories that they've they've done, all these interviews, I think well over a thousand at this point. um And you you listen to each one of these stories and each one is worse than the last. And they really are the same story over and over and over again. They have their list of 25 commonalities through throughout it all. And it's just, I think it takes time. And you need to actually talk to the people who who've experienced it, and that that's really how you get through ah or listen to those stories. I think the saddest thing is that the doctors who were so successful treating patients, who literally treated thousands of people without losing you know but one or two in months and months of timeframe where they were treating COVID patients, those doctors and the protocols that they were using, but which were simple and cheap protocols, by the way, yeah they think we could have saved at least 800,000 out of the million or so debt.
00:32:57
Speaker
And you know so this was really such an unnecessary thing. And we're talking about medications or vitamins that cost pennies. Ivermectin's three cents a pill. ah Vitamin C, we all know that's very cheap. Vitamin D, quercetin, zinc, you know the antibiotics are cheap. ah you know Very well tolerated, very well known. The you know the steroids that that could be used as well. So you know yeah that's the saddest thing is that we were they were so blinded and so incentivized to go down this expensive route that the cheap and and simple way to save lives was not used. And that's a real testimony to the impact of the suppression of our First Amendment rights, the suppression in the media of all these alternatives. I mean, that's what happened. you know In an emergency, the key issue is to have a conversation
00:33:53
Speaker
And to learn the truth as quickly as possible and have these arguments, instead they suppress the arguments. And we had a completely inappropriate response to to an emergency. Absolutely. Oh, sorry. No, go ahead, Catherine. I think on top of that, I mean, that specifically, I think, is exactly what happened for the first year and a half. And then you started having the problems of the propaganda ah because of the shots, because of ah you know people refusing to take the shots, and there was there was ah a very very large movement and within the hospitals themselves against anybody who had not taken the shot and they actively just
00:34:33
Speaker
It was even more severe than just simple COVID blindness. it was if When you read these records, these doctors are writing like writing down all these horrible things about anybody who didn't take the shot, basically that they deserved it um and that they wouldn't be in this situation if they had taken the shot. And and there is a a very cruel callousness towards anybody who who they believed didn't take the shot. and And that was on top of not doing the obvious, ah but that's something that you really see through these these these stories that that former feds has has brought together is anybody who didn't take the shot was treated in an inhumane kind of way, and they didn't treat the basic things. And that that was what led to their death, not even COVID, but something else that they just ignored because they just dehumanized them.
00:35:30
Speaker
And that loops around to where you were earlier, Haley, because it wasn't just the patients who were treated that way. It was the employees, their fellow employees were absolutely ridiculed for not taking the shot. And and that extreme ideology in the hospital and medical field resulted in a million people leaving. which is, you know, we have lots of people in the medical field, but you know, you're still losing a million people. And I would submit this to the public as well. Who did we lose in those million people? These were your independent people. These were the people who had thought through whether this was good or bad.
00:36:08
Speaker
These are people who really objected to the hospital protocols that were being used. So we lost a very, important and I'm not saying, I don't mean to, you know, deprecate the ones that remain. ah We have a lot of good people still in hospitals, but these these million people were pretty special and we needed their voices and and the loss of their voices within the hospital systems means that in general, we have a much more compliant ah healthcare worker population at this point. Right. Yeah. We just finished up a Supreme Court session and, you know, lots of decisions came out.
Supreme Court Decisions' Impact on Litigation
00:36:46
Speaker
Were there any decisions that maybe can help you in in the future? Or, you know, one of the ones that I think we were mis-disappointed in was ah the First Amendment free speech decision to the social media propaganda. So um what's your take on what just happened with the SCOTUS decisions?
00:37:04
Speaker
Well, a couple things. I mean, that First Amendment decision, that was a decision about a very early stage in the case. That case is not over. I mean, people think that it's over. So it's not over. There's lots of possibilities that can go on for now, including additional discovery. And it may turn out that that what they needed to have at this day at this early stage, they didn't have, but they may have it later. So don't give up on the First Amendment case yet. And there's other there's other potential cases out there. There's other potential plaintiffs, including Catherine. So I don't think we are far from being over. ah The Supreme Court made a road map, essentially, of what it would like to see.
00:37:48
Speaker
and And I think, and we do this many times in our cases, is we get a decision. It may be an adverse decision, but at least it gives us a roadmap going forward. The other thing was the Loper case, which overturned Chevron. and That's the the big one. And I mean, honestly, the consequences of that i We are in active discussions among ourselves as attorneys about what all the consequences are to that. what And to be real simple, the shut the Chevron case, which is from the 1980s, basically said that the agencies, in that case it was the EPA, ah in in a case I'd like to maybe look at, would it would be the FDA,
00:38:25
Speaker
but you have to You have to say that Congress gave that agency the power to regulate drugs and medicines, and then it's up to the agency to interpret the scope of its own power, and that we have to give deference to the agency's interpretation. That's done. We do not have to defer to these corrupt bastards at the FDA, the EPA, and all these other agencies at this point. And I think you know one of the important things that's happened is that the people understand what regulatory capture is now. That's a big term. It simply means that the industry that's being regulated essentially owns the agency. So the they've the drug companies that the FDA is regulating basically you know run that agency and get their stuff through with very inappropriate levels of scrutiny.
00:39:21
Speaker
Yeah, Catherine, any thoughts? Well, I mean, as as Warner was saying with the Missouri B. Biden one, i what they what they shot them down on was standing. And the fun part is, is i according to what they listed out as where where the the current plaintiffs fail in standing, I do have standing um because i was I was not censored until after all of the activities in the White House. And it's actually a pretty straight line between
00:39:52
Speaker
ah their discussions ands and when I was taken out and even even the even the very first posts that they they censored of mine were I'd been making that same post for for months. It was a data post basically every morning I would post the data in a less i less frightening way than than the state of Ohio would. And so I had that post every single day for for months at that point. And that was the first post that they pulled down. It was one of these date daily data parts. So one of the arguments with all of the the plaintiffs on that case right now were
00:40:29
Speaker
ah you know They had been censored early on in 2020. I had not been censored until after the activities of the White House. So I need to i need to get to to the attorney who's who's on that case, but attorneys are are rather tricky to get a hold of it sometimes. oh I don't know. We'll we'll see. i mean that they don't believe Most people don't believe that such a person, such as me exists, but I do. so Yeah, i think id get married I think that's part of it too is just not knowing who to get a hold of because and I think this is what you are attempting to do with Freedom Council is form like a coalition because you know to bring all these people together so it's not so like you're not one man on an island trying to you know David take on Goliath all by yourself that you have um you know a council
00:41:18
Speaker
of people together and you're kind of collaborating even though you're more or less you know working and independently but you can still bounce ideas and strategize amongst each other in ways in the best ways to take on some of these cases. One thing that um I think troubles me is or I think it's tricky, is going back to like talking about the FDA and or like the CDC and and and regulatory capture and the the way that they try and play past the buck. you know The FDA is supposed to be, as are most of these other regulatory agencies, three-letter they're supposed to be an advisory body.
00:41:55
Speaker
And they were starting or dipping a toe into you know actually trying to enforce or write you know these regulations. and And that's where it kind of gets a little tricky because then they're just trying to say, oh, I'm just following CDC guidance. It's always a guidance. It's never ah a law or a rule or what. so So they're just saying, oh, we are just following CDC guidance. And then we are just you know taking the FDA's you know approval under advisement. And then the everybody's playing pass the buck. So at what point like how do you pin it down to get actual cool ability or accountability with this when everybody's just kind of pointing a finger at one another and just saying well it was just guidance to you know so like how do you disentangle that.
00:42:39
Speaker
Well, I think we've already disentangled it to some extent on the ivermectin issue, right? The the lawsuit over you know using ivermectin and how the FDA characterized ivermectin, the court slapped them down hard in terms of how they characterized it. And they are not to be practicing medicine. That's not their role at all. So that's one thing. They they were clearly out of bounds in giving health recommendations ah because they are not in the medical profession. I know that sounds strange. They're in the regulatory regulatory profession, but it's up to the doctors to to treat patients. I have one other thing I was going to say. i'm just Sorry, I'm drawing a blank. That's okay. Yeah. but Say your question to me again. Just talking about all the the pointing the fingers between, you know, like
00:43:26
Speaker
I know what it was. okay the the the guidance And the guidance really was interesting. And and and Catherine and I discovered this fairly early on with the schools. And what we found out is that this guidance and the reason it had such power is they had contracted for it. If you took the federal money, you agreed in your contract to follow CDC guidance. So that's how it became a force of law but it was through a contractual mechanism, not through a regulatory mechanism. So I think that's an important thing to understand is how they have captured now our local governments, our school boards, through these contracts for federal money. And what we said at the school board meetings over and over and over again is you can't contract to violate someone's constitutional rights by requiring them to wear a mask, for example.
00:44:20
Speaker
that We felt that that was unconstitutional, it interfered with expression, it interfered with help, it interfered in all kinds of ways. And there was no basis for it, but they were contracted to follow that guidance for masking, masking on the on the ah public or on the transportation of the kids too. So all of those things are things that we learned through this process. It's an horrific abuse of power. But but people did stand up fairly hard in Ohio. Half the school districts did not go along with the guidance. um and And like you guys, I'm circling back around to your earlier discussion. What a beautiful natural experience. The schools that didn't follow the guidance did better overall than the schools that did follow the guidance. Less infection.
00:45:06
Speaker
So just a perfect natural experiment. And we you know we have all these tools in our tool belts for the next time around. Yeah. Catherine, I was going to say you you, I think, highlighted some things in the in the contract that is kind of a big loophole that I know you were showing me you know at the conference. you know You had it highlighted about like a specific ah statement within the contracts. Can you talk to me about that?
Scrutinizing School and Hospital Practices
00:45:30
Speaker
There was something like, I can't remember, but generally speaking, going back to these contracts, and the the kind of the loophole or the best way to kind of get at them with what they contracted themselves. Yeah, like I can't remember the specific instance, unfortunately, but I mean, that's exactly what I wanted to to say here too. I mean, I think this also goes back to to the publicity aspects of it too. People need to understand, as Werner was just describing, I mean, these were these were contractual. And the nice part about these contracts is that
00:45:59
Speaker
it doesn't actually require a lawyer ah to to to litigate any of these things. This is something where normal people can go and and talk to their school board and say, okay, show us show us these contracts that you know you've got these ESSER funds or whatever. you know What did you guys sign away? How does it work? and And you can go through more of a political process as opposed to a litigation process. But people need to understand that it actually happened and to know to go and and find these contracts and and read through them very carefully and and use their own words against them. Again, that's really the trick. I'm i'm sure there are things in that contract that they are not following. and so
00:46:41
Speaker
or just simply ask them the question, what is in this contract that you've signed? What do we get out of it? or What do we have to do for it? Just those kinds of questions are the things that really need to happen where it it needs to be a become a publicity thing and and back to the very beginning there about ah politics i that that needs to be understood. Well, one thing that that hasn't ever it doesn't really get a lot of attention but was a central point of the pandemic were the PCR tests. Is there any avenue of like going back to like fraud? ah you know because we called it Eventually, we started calling it a case-demic rather than a pandemic because these PCR tests were just throwing off all these false positives. Going back to what you said earlier, Warner, was like you know the COVID blindness in the hospitals, they would just go ahead and test you.
00:47:33
Speaker
for COVID, and even if you didn't have any symptoms of COVID, maybe I'm having chest pain, and then they started treating you for COVID if you threw off a false positive. So is there any avenue of recourse? Are we looking at those PCR tests at all? I mean, I can tell you under the False Claims Act, some of these cases are sealed, so they're not public yet, but there are cases right now against the PCR manufacturers. But I think we all need to go back to the very beginning. Carrie Mullis, who invented PCR, said this is not diagnostic, period. So it shouldn't be used that way. They've misused it. um And it was an EUA. We're fighting that in some ways in some of our employment cases right now because people refuse to test. and And because the test is worthless, it's not a functional test. And it is under emergency use authorization, which you're supposed to have the right to refuse.
00:48:24
Speaker
So we had a number, we actually have two of those cases right now ah that we are pursuing um just in the practical implementation of PCR. But that whole thing is fraudulent. People should know that PCR is not a diagnostic tool. Yeah. Well, and and the other thing is is we shouldn't get too wrapped up in the PCR stuff because, for instance, in Ohio, you didn't even need to have a positive test of any variety and you were you could be called COVID. um So you need to really look even beyond the the PCR tests themselves or even the antigen tests or any of that, but but really see, okay, how did this hospital or whoever got some money from from a...
00:49:07
Speaker
from being from someone being called COVID because there was a lot of money moving around there for for a lot of different reasons. Another thing with the PCR tests, I mean there's, I don't know how many hundreds of them, but as Werner was just talking there, where it's it's interesting in these in these employment cases too, because each one of these tests is different. Each test from each manufacturer has its own EUA rules. So if you go on to the FDA's website, it it has all of these tests listed. They're called molecular tests there.
00:49:41
Speaker
ah the the PCR tests and ah they have specific reasons why you use the the tests. I know one of the cases that one of Warner's attorneys was working on where where this person didn't want to ah be ah tested you know asymptomatically and stuff and the tests they were actually using in their EUA descriptions and the rules in order to use this it says very very explicitly not to be used but when the person doesn't have symptoms. And so that's one way to to deal with these specific tests, especially in these employment cases, is you just simply but go and look up the, the EUA rules for that specific test. And you're going to pretty much almost universally find that they were not using these tests appropriately by the EUA rules. So, I mean, again, it it goes back to this whole use their own words against them.
00:50:34
Speaker
because they were very lazy about what they were doing. They were just simply saying, hey, oh yeah, everybody's doing it, so it must be okay. And they didn't actually look into the specific regulations or the contracts or or the EUA rules or any of
Public Pressure and Institutional Change
00:50:50
Speaker
that. I think that's a really big one, and that's not something that's stuck just with attorneys either, but that's something that that anybody really can use. Look at the contract, look at the the inserts, look at all that stuff, and you're probably gonna find something. You know, one of the things, you know, we talked about like, what's like a public pressure campaign or, uh, you know, keeping scrutinizing some of these things. And you talked about ways in which you can take some of this data and information to your school boards, your health boards and everything.
00:51:23
Speaker
you know what I'm trying to angle at like what's been effective and what hasn't been effective. I think sometimes on our side, we just get so discouraged that we think we've got the data, we've got the facts, we've got the truth on our side. and Even when you show people, they just don't want to see it. They don't want to hear it. They are being paid not to see it. They are being paid not to hear it. And so you feel like it's a futile effort. you know Can you give us some hope or some you know concrete examples or you know ah advice for how to approach this? you know Whether you're talking to a politician, a school board, a health board, your neighbor, you know when you know we've got facts, data, science, and truth on our side and that people don't want to hear it, we get discouraged and we you know we don't want to speak up because of it because we think it's not making any difference.
00:52:09
Speaker
i Listen, I can tell you that the parents that stood up to these school boards in Ohio had a tremendous impact. And remember, we had about 500 school boards, half of them did not implement. And and i I know for a fact some of the things that happened because we toured around literally addressing school boards and and that wording in the contract was they should follow the CDC guidelines to the extent practicable. And that's what I would come back with. It's impracticable to violate the Constitution.
00:52:41
Speaker
So, you know, generally speaking, you know, the parents would be up in arms. Catherine and I or we one or both of us would appear. We'd have our our discussions. We had expertise on our side, of course. But we also had the the threat of lawsuits. So we made many, many more threats than we ever filed. Now we ended up filing, I think, 10 education related law school lawsuits across Ohio and and against colleges and elementary and schools. and and others, but but that that implied threat, we we we probably threatened another 50. And i I know the Maslin School Board, for example, the day I was gonna file, they pulled their program. They changed it. So that threat backed up but with some attorney, at least some some attorney access, really helped to back down many, many school boards across Ohio. They knew were they knew the parents were coming for them.
00:53:39
Speaker
yeah Catherine. Yeah. So to to your question there about, you know, what yeah what recommendations ah to when you're trying to get somebody to to to see the truth there. but One thing that I have found is the best thing to do is ask questions. I mean, my, my little graph is, was, was brutal because it was just, it was a question. I wasn't trying to, I wasn't saying, Hey, look, there's, there's nothing here really. It's, I'm not trying to tell somebody something. It's more of like, all right, if this is the case, then you should be able to, to, to point things out.
00:54:16
Speaker
and you know put put the ball in their court, you know set up situations, questions, where it's like, well, if that's true, then wouldn't something else be true? Or you know whatever you can do, try to lead them to to ask the questions themselves or get stuck in these. you know, into the the cognitive dissonance because that's that's really the problem is when we're trying to, when we're we're showing them the obvious things, you know, okay, you can you can contrast to two counties or two states or something and they look exactly the same and they behave totally different.
00:54:52
Speaker
ah you know when you When you do that, usually the people come back with all sorts of excuses for why that is. But if you flip it around in in terms of, all right, then show me where this happens. and you know Can you explain this to me without giving them the extra information? That that that seems to be a much more efficient way of of doing it, is ask questions as opposed to to telling what what it is that you are personally seeing. Because they're always going to come back with, with some arguments that's very specific and and isn't applicable elsewhere. One question that I like to ask is, did you read the contract? ah her Because the reality is, is these people have not read anything. So you have a school board sitting there that signed a multimillion dollar or a hundred million dollar, multi hundred million dollar contract, but they never read it. And yeah and then they are relying on attorneys
00:55:48
Speaker
from these big corporate law firms that come in and those attorneys tell them what to do. So they're not thinking independently at all. They haven't read the contract and the attorneys that are interpreting the contract have a vested interest in you know the status quo that we saw develop under COVID. i I know we're running short on time. I've got two more questions I want to try and ask. you know One thing, and I haven't really heard much about it on any front, but I feel like there's got to be some shakeout as the university mandates. We haven't heard anything. I mean, I personally, I know that they're out there, but I'm surprised that there hasn't been more of a reckoning when it comes to these universities, maybe because they have a captured audience, partially.
00:56:32
Speaker
um In terms of the people who you know they attract or ideologically agreeing with them and so maybe i don't know but particularly with these young people in there. The vaccine mandates what are we seeing on that front anything. Well sure for the most part the universities have backed down. You know, no college mandates and, you know, that Lucia Sinatra it really ah helped get developed, developed really did a fantastic job. And then we we did have lawsuits all over the place against these universities and some are ongoing. I still have an active lawsuit here in Ohio from three years ago against Ohio U.
00:57:09
Speaker
we still have the regions versus the university of california that's a university mandate but it's also for their employees so that's gonna happen and you know that can have a lot of consequences coming up in the next few years as well and that case is essentially that they really violated their human rights under california's human rights statutes and constitution. by delving into this, the medical area, their private information um and that that was wrong there. So there's a lot still going to happen in the universities. I think the ongoing things to look for is, you know, the normal vaccines. I think people need to really take a look at the normal vaccines, get their kids opted out of those, get the exemptions on those. And then for healthcare students, you know, we still see these flu mandates and it's really jamming people up. They don't want to take these flu vaccines, which again, don't really, you know, end transmission or or have any good impact on somebody. And and many people have told me that that if they've taken the flu vaccine, that it's harmed their health.
00:58:14
Speaker
So you know there's there's a lot of fights that are still out there. a lot you know That major effort that the universities had, though, to impose these COVID mandates, they're the only universities out there that I think are still doing it are some of the stupidest universities in the country, like the Ivy Leagues and the very elite private schools like Kenyon here in Ohio and Oberlin. You know, and Oberlin had a history of so of, you know, civil rights issues and activism, but of course, now they've really forgotten about ah the the civil rights of their own students. So I would like to point those out. There is a list. If you go to no college mandates on Twitter or wherever, they have a list of the current mandates. You never want to send any child child or friend to any of those universities ever again. We should boycott them.
00:59:04
Speaker
Glenn, you would have think that Oberlin would have learned a lesson a few years ago with that massive lawsuit they had with the poor, you know, the, anyway, I don't, you know what I'm talking about, but they had. bakery loss Yeah, yeah ah it was a bakery lawsuit where a young man stole something from the bakery. Uh, and then there was a huge backlash, uh, because, ah you know, racially tinged, tinged backlash against the bakery and the school actually got involved in, that bakery's business and and ah wanted students not to to go there and boycott the bakery. And ah that ended up being a $40 million dollars bill for the school. And yet they haven't learned. Unfortunately, they try to turn it into a racial, you know, try to paint the owners who've been in business for generations as racists, et ceterat cetera, et cetera. It is awful. and yet And yet here they are not learning their
Freedom Council's Achievements and Future Goals
00:59:54
Speaker
lessons yet again. So, okay, we're going to wrap up, but, you know, Freedom Council, tell I want you guys to have the last word. I know, Catherine, you came to the Tom School Unconference, you know, because what you kind of talked to me is like, what we needed is to marry the two worlds of, you know, the lawyers, doctors, data scientists with like the business marketing PR type people.
01:00:16
Speaker
What is it what do you need what can we do going back to my question what can we do what do you need what are you trying to accomplish with freedom council and how can anybody that is listening right now help you guys out. Well first of all we we just got some really great news just a couple days ago we we actually have been approved for five oh one c3 status awesome it is now it is now official anything that you donate to us is is tax deductible sir so that's very helpful. But yeah, I mean, just as you were saying there, we you know on our side of things, obviously, we we're werere there at the science, we're there with the law, ah working through the process here. ah But a huge part of what needs to happen is the basic marketing business, getting the fundraising, getting the financing, because these things are extremely expensive.
01:01:05
Speaker
You know, the the attorneys that have stepped into this fight, they are solo small practice attorneys. that They are in debt up to their eyeballs and these these cases have a very expensive upfront cost to it and they take a long time. Actually kind of going back to to one of the cases that Werner mentioned early on about the Croft decision. ah One thing to understand about the Groff decision, it had nothing at all to do with COVID. It was a case that started what in 2008 or something like that, something something pretty early. i mean it's been like The fight over the Groff issue had been going back 30 years. oh yeah That particular case put put a pin in it and got it done.
01:01:47
Speaker
But the the overall fight was a 30-year battle with multiple cases along the way that finally got to the Supreme Court and got decided. so and And if you look back historically, the the women's suffrage movement, the civil rights movement, even the gay rights movement, these are all multi-decade battles. And we are in the health rights movement, you know, and the health civil rights movement at this point. And we're going to have a multi-decade battle here. and And we also, as you know, we've got to restore our sovereignty and protect our sovereignty of our nation. This is a, eternal vigilance is the price of of liberty. We all need to remember that. We need to stay eternally vigilant. And I think millions of people know that now. And we have written for decades more fighting and more ah more work.
01:02:40
Speaker
yeah So there's the money and then there's as we've talked about many times today, it's that publicity. It's getting the word out there and that that is also something that really needs to happen. We need to be able to to tell those stories and make people understand what has happened and and not let it fall away. that That is actually a big part of marketing too. so And I think the other thing i mean that I think is really important, and Catherine and I have had an ongoing discussion about this, is it isn't just on the attorneys. I don't want people to think that this that you know Freedom Council is just about the attorneys. we are We have to have an empowered citizenry that knows how to use the levers of government and levers of of pressure. And I think that's another big part of our effort, is to have that empowered citizenry.
01:03:27
Speaker
but Yeah, i think I think that's an excellent point too because I think that's what, you know I don't know offense, but I think that's what leftists do better than conservatives is they know how to use the levers of power, whether it's within government or private entities, they find ways to weasel themselves and do positions of power and utilize it to enforce their ideological agendas. And they did that masterfully ah during the COVID pandemic. so but Where can we find you? How can people get in touch with you if they do want to help? um Send us, give us some links, et cetera. Freedomcouncil.org, that's counsel with an SEL as attorneys and not as the, you know, counsel kind of thing. ah that is That is definitely the the best way to get to us. There's, you know, contact us on that.
01:04:19
Speaker
There's a link to our Gibson Go, which actually does need to be updated because we can now say that we are officially 501c3. But yeah, that's definitely the fastest way to get there. And on Twitter, it's freedom underscore counsel. And then if they wanted to follow, you so you can follow along some of the events and and news that we would have there. And then if you, they want to ah be aware of what my firm is doing, it's Mendenhall firm, you know, at Mendenhall firm on Twitter. Perfect all one word perfect and i do yeah and i will have this link to in the show notes page liberty alliance network dot com slash what can we do i'll have all this put out on the show notes page and you know i'm doing my small part like you said to help publicize this using my
01:05:01
Speaker
You know, small platform.
Role of Media in Advocacy
01:05:02
Speaker
yeah I'm not sure. I think I've mentioned in my email list before that well at the hospital protocols, but I've been to the vaccine injury conferences they've done. And I'm often the only media person that shows up to try and, you know, and I use that term loosely because I'm basically just a one woman operation here trying to do my best with my small email list and my small platform to spread the word. But it takes all of us to do our part. And that's what I'm trying to encourage and inspire with this show is that it takes all of us. And you can make a difference even if you have a small platform. Catherine, you showed that beautifully during COVID where you're just you know a woman, a stay-at-home mom that win a you know with facts armed with facts and data and information and ah you know use that to launch something bigger and better. so
01:05:48
Speaker
um I want to thank both of you for your tireless work and your heroic efforts and wish you much success with Freedom Council and all the future endeavors because this is going to be a long lasting battle and offer my help and services as best as I can along the way if you whatever you guys need from me, I'm happy to to help and do it. But Catherine and Warner, thanks so much for joining me today. Oh, yeah, Haley, thank you. Thank you. Take care.