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Episode 27 All about grooming: in the church, Hollywood, and beyond
65 Plays2 years ago
Sex trafficking survivor, Kathryn Robbins, rejoins the show to talk about all things grooming.
There have been lots of news headlines pertaining to sex trafficking and grooming in churches, the entertainment industry, and beyond.
From the International House of Prayer in Kansas City to Tim Ballard to P. Diddy, we dissect each of theses cases and events. Are there patterns to grooming and sex trafficking? What do parents need to beware of with their own children? Are there any red flags to watch out for with people or organizations that are involved in sexual abuse?
Kathryn was also involved in crafting anti-grooming legislation here in the state of Florida. She gives us a behind-the-scenes look at “how the sausage” is made so to speak and why it’s so hard to get conservative legislation passed even in Red states like Florida that enjoy a supermajority within the state.
It was a fascinating and far-reaching conversation that is a for sure “must listen”!
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Show notes page: https://libertyalliancenetwork.com/episode-27-all-about-grooming-in-the-church-hollywood-and-beyond
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Transcript
Choosing Convenience and Endorsing Zencastr
00:00:00
Speaker
Okay, tell me which of these things you would rather do. Would you rather walk five miles across town in the hot summer heat or hop in an air-conditioned vehicle to get to your destination instead? Would you rather dig a pit with a shovel or use an excavator? Would you rather use an iron washboard to wash your clothes or throw it in the washing machine instead?
00:00:24
Speaker
If we're being honest, we'd all choose the second options. Everyone likes doing things the easy way rather than the hard way if they can help it. That's why I like podcasting with Zencaster. They make it easy to record, produce, host, and monetize your podcast all in one convenient location.
00:00:46
Speaker
I'll let you in on a little secret. The first few episodes of my show were video only because I thought podcasting was too hard and scary. That is, until I discovered Zencaster. They make it easy, especially for non-techies like me. What I like best is the fact that they take care of all the post-production work for you. You just toggle your preferences and Zencaster takes care of all the rest.
00:01:12
Speaker
With just the touch of some buttons, you have a crisp, professional-looking and sounding recording ready to be shared to the world. Easy peasy. So if you've been thinking about starting a podcast but think it's going to be too hard to figure out, try Zencaster. They make podcasting easy. Head to libertyalliancenetwork.com slash zen to check it all out. That's libertyalliancenetwork.com slash zen. Let's get back to the show.
Interview with Katherine Robbins: Advocacy and Awareness
00:02:01
Speaker
All right. Welcome back to another episode of Liberty Alliance Networks. What can we do? I'm Hailey Heathman, and today I'm excited to be joined once again by Katherine Robbins. Katherine was a guest on the show almost a year ago and is a survivor. Wow.
00:02:17
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. And as a survivor of sex trafficking, having been trafficked from the time she was in diapers until she was nearly 20 years old, Catherine now does advocacy and awareness with all things related to sex trafficking. And we're going to continue the conversation around all that today. So Catherine, welcome back to the show.
00:02:34
Speaker
Thank you super excited. I cannot believe that was almost a year ago. It was sometime like last summer and you know because it was right when the sound of you know the sound of freedom was big which. And I was thinking how did we meet like I don't even remember that. I remember we met at. There was a common ground.
00:02:54
Speaker
No, it was down in Orlando at what it was like a COVID, like the it was not a conference. It was there, you know, the concert, you know, they had like high res the rapper there and oh, my gosh, at Fun Spot.
00:03:13
Speaker
Yes, at Fun Spot. That's right. Yeah. Oh my goodness. I did not remember that. I thought, oh my gosh, where did we meet? I forgot already. Right. And so we met there, but then we also reconnected. I saw that you were speaking up here in the villages at a local, one of the local political groups.
00:03:31
Speaker
And I was like, oh, I want to go see that. And that's, we kind of reconnected a little bit there. And that's how we, you know, set up her. You would think I would remember the, because Dr. Villa spoke at the fun spot that night and I had never seen or heard her speak. So you think I would remember that because it was a more intimate crowd, but I didn't remember it all. And I think it's because we have fast forwarded so much with our connection on social media and seeing each other a few times in person. And then I'm like,
00:04:00
Speaker
we're already friends. Right. That's it. So yeah, yeah. So Catherine and I have gotten to know each other a bit over. So it's not like I spoke to her a year ago and I haven't spoken to her since we've stayed connected. And I've been very aware of what she's been up to. And that's why I definitely wanted to have her back on because there's just so much to talk about. And we were talking about this before the show, like, oh my gosh, well, we're going to talk about this. We're going to talk about that. I was like, we're going to talk about it all because there's no shortage, unfortunately.
00:04:27
Speaker
Unfortunately, there's no shortage of ways we can go with when it comes to human trafficking, sex trafficking, grooming, etc. So I think, you know, I want us to let's start generally, because I'm like, there's lots of stories that have been in the media, and all kind of walks of life that, you know, like, private life, public life, etc. And,
00:04:50
Speaker
I think the thread that connects all these stories, if you will, is kind of like the overarching theme of there's a person in power, typically a man, but with no shortage of female enablers, but this person in power who uses that power to groom or coerce minors, or let's just say subordinates in his midst to engage in sexual contact in one form or
Understanding Grooming in Sexual Abuse
00:05:12
Speaker
another. So let's just start with a general theme and then, you know, tell me like,
00:05:16
Speaker
the mechanics maybe of what you might call grooming behavior.
00:05:22
Speaker
Okay. Well, according to statistics, and I don't have the location this comes from, but I believe it's a law enforcement statistic, it was used this year in Florida as we attempted to get anti grooming legislation passed in this last session. So the legislators said openly in committee hearings that nine in 93% of the cases
00:05:48
Speaker
of child sexual abuse or trafficking, any kind of sexual abuse all lumped into this one thing, that in 93% of those cases, grooming takes place first. And that would be, in my estimation from what they told us, that was information given to them by law enforcement here in the state of Florida. I think the percentage is low. Frankly, I think it's in 100% of the cases unless there's literally no contact with the child prior to the sexual abuse.
00:06:17
Speaker
And that may account for the 7%. So grooming takes place in nearly every case where a child is sexually abused. So that's a very high percentage. And there is only one state in the nation in 2012 that passed an anti grooming law. And it was definitely before the heated political and cultural debates around the word grooming in the last several years. So in 2012,
00:06:47
Speaker
the state of Illinois passed the first statute, making it a crime to groom a child for the purpose of sexual abuse. And then we came into this legislative session with that only one. And I think people have a lot of misconceptions about the kind of protective legislation, statutes, et cetera, that we have on the records in all 50 states. And it's much
00:07:15
Speaker
less and far fewer than I think people inherently believe. So we came into this legislation with Illinois, the bluest state in the nation, being the example for wanting a statute. And we worked our way through the legislative process this year, but grooming is a huge issue. And I also think that it's one of the reasons that by design,
00:07:41
Speaker
the terminology has been weaponized. I actually believe that by whoever the powers that be that can weaponize things in culture, weaponize racism, weaponize the term grooming, whoever those powers are, they want to actually create
00:08:00
Speaker
conflict around terminology, right? So if there is a cultural upheaval around the term grooming, then you can imagine moving forward trying to get anti-grooming legislation passed that we have a more uphill battle than we would have had even eight years ago when it had not been weaponized. So we have a lot of challenges.
00:08:26
Speaker
So in your estimation, what would you, let's just like get specific, but how would you define grooming? I would define grooming as any activity or language that is designed to lure a minor under the age of 18. And it can be done in cases with adults, but we'll stay with minors for this case, into some sort of sexualized conversation or activity.
00:08:55
Speaker
Yeah, that's very broad, which is also part of the challenge. It's super broad. So it could be a coach who puts a comb through a minor's hair, male or female.
00:09:11
Speaker
that could be perceived as grooming. And so what ends up needing to happen is we have to put in place kind of standards by which we judge grooming. Or in our case in Florida, we'll talk more about this later, establishing what a pattern of grooming looks like, right? So if you brush a kid's hair once, is that grooming? Well, if it doesn't lead anywhere, it may not be.
00:09:39
Speaker
But it might be, it just didn't lead anywhere. So there are all kinds of things. It could be everything from putting your arm around a student that you're coaching.
00:09:49
Speaker
Right. I feel like, you know, and this is like I totally get obviously the need for it, but I understand there's a gray area because you don't want to like get involved with pre-crime. You know, like the pre-crime, you can't convict people on pre-crime, but I think that's what you're talking about. There's some sort of a gray area there between like
00:10:11
Speaker
The intent behind it and like you said a pattern if there's a pattern or hey, maybe with this particular Person maybe it was just the one comb through the hair, but they happen to do that all the time and in this case Somebody else it happened to lead somewhere else. So maybe you know Jane was just one time he brushed her hair or she brushed her hair but with Jodie
00:10:34
Speaker
He brushed your hair, which led to locker room behavior and nakedness or something like that. I mean, there is a gray area and I understand you have to protect the presumption of innocence as well when crafting legislation. But it is an apparent fact and it is a fact, like you stated,
00:10:58
Speaker
almost entirely, there are lead ups to predatory behavior. So where's the line?
00:11:08
Speaker
Well, I think that's what we have to empower judges and law enforcement to not only decide, but be able to intervene in.
Predatory Behavior and Misconceptions
00:11:19
Speaker
So the general population has a misconception that 95% of sexual abuse is some stranger who grabbed their kid. And it's actually the exact opposite. In 95% of the cases,
00:11:35
Speaker
It is someone who is known to the child and family. And so again, more misconceptions. We also have this misconception that it's some sort of a boogeyman style approach to being able to get access to a child for sexual abuse. And again, it's also the opposite there too. What we don't understand is that
00:12:01
Speaker
It's the friendliest, nicest, wonderful person who comes in and says kind words and does nice things and is just especially, especially nice. It's the polar opposite of what we believe to be nefarious.
00:12:18
Speaker
And in those cases, we have to be very careful. And like you said, with the one girl, brushing her hair may have only led to that one time and nothing else. But the second girl, it led to more because the difference between a good human being becoming friendly with you and your family
00:12:40
Speaker
And someone with nefarious intentions is that the good human being is doing it all for altruistic reasons. It's generally selfless. The person who wants to be a predator toward you and your family is actually doing every single step as a test.
00:12:59
Speaker
So where somebody else might give you a gift because they care about you, the predator gives you a gift to test your response to it. And so the girl who gets groomed and then sexually abused has actually passed all of the predators test where something in one of the other ones wouldn't allow him to go past the first hair brushing.
00:13:23
Speaker
That's such an important point. That's such an important point. And I don't think, I don't even think, I mean, now that you say it, I'm like, it makes like a total no duh, you know, moment. But I don't think I've ever like really thought of it that way. And you can think of that in terms of like lots of other relational or transactional relationships, because all relationships are kind of transactional in a way, you know.
00:13:46
Speaker
They are. And so, you know, it's about building trust. And that's what these predators are trying to do, is build trust. And before they go in for, you know, the whatever, and I like what you said, and I read somewhere too, again, this is just another nebulous statistic, but, you know, oh, I think it wasn't, it was like a former convicted
00:14:06
Speaker
child rapist. And he said the one thing that he looked for the most was like single mother households or like absent fathers, because they those were usually the kids that were easier targets. So they are an easy target. I actually at one time many years ago wrote a curriculum called single parent solutions. And
00:14:29
Speaker
My name was taken off of that curriculum by the nonprofit and they still sell it to this day. So I digress. But it was around
00:14:42
Speaker
why they go after single-parent households and what single-parent households can do to kind of add additional guards in place around their children. But quite frankly, we have fast forwarded into a culture where I don't think it is
00:15:02
Speaker
I think it's still, and I don't have a statistic on me, I do think it still happens more in single households, but I think what they're ultimately looking for is a dysfunctional household. And we have come to a time in culture where
00:15:22
Speaker
you know, as a Christian, so I have a Christian background, love the Lord with all my heart, wanna honor and please him. And so I see relationships in the kingdom as something where I need to be able to invest. So when I walk into a friendship, a relationship, I'm looking for how I can be a good person to that person, how I can sacrifice, how I can make their life better.
00:15:48
Speaker
And I'm also looking for someone who wants to pour into my life that way. It's a different way of seeing relationships. And we live in a culture that teaches, what do I get out of it? What do I get out of it? So if our culture of adults who are also raising children have this idea that relationships are supposed to serve me, they're supposed to be about me, it makes it easier to miss a predator who's also doing
Religious Institutions and Abuse Scandals
00:16:16
Speaker
the same thing with our children.
00:16:19
Speaker
because we've normalized it. And so it used to be that people were very kind, giving selfless in relationships and spotting someone who just wanted to get something out of you was a lot easier. It might take a little while, but it was a lot easier. Now I think the waters are muddier.
00:16:35
Speaker
Right. Well, and going back to that grooming behavior and, you know, about building trust. And I know one of the things you wanted to talk about today was the International House of Prayer and the scandal that's going on there. So I was reading up about it and Mike Bickle and he started, this was I think back in the 80s, one of the, you know, the allegations are only just now coming back, coming out.
00:17:02
Speaker
But what I was reading up on it today was that one of the victims that have come out now was she was his babysitter. And I think at the time, he was 25 and she was 14. And it started off with him asking her to be a babysitter and, you know, sitting down to have a pizza together and discuss
00:17:23
Speaker
hey, will you be your babysitter? And then he would drive her home after the babysitting. And, you know, they were once a week, you know, because he would go on a date night with his wife once a week. And then she would be babysitting his kids. And then at some point, he kind of just said, Well, he put it on her, he said, Well, you
00:17:44
Speaker
you have feelings for me, don't you? Or something, you know, and he kind of put it on her. And then she kind of admitted it thinking that she was going to get scolded, you know, by this pastor. And he kind of said, reciprocated almost. And so they didn't anything happened there. Now they ever never had intercourse, but there was sexual contact, you know, where he was guiding her to touch him in areas and everything. So but that's how it started.
00:18:13
Speaker
which is sex, right? Well, it was like dry humping, you know. It's still, you know, right? But sometimes we want to act like it's not the same abuse because it isn't what it is, right? I'm not saying that's what you were saying. The audience can think that. We have ways where we minimize these types of abuses. Well, yeah.
00:18:40
Speaker
Yeah, I think I'm sure you've seen it with your story too because I mean you're you I mean what happened to you was carried out for over two decades or almost two decades 20 years and I think people like there's an element because it seems so barbaric and so egregious that like it can't be true like it's that it's just like a Psychological defense mechanism and I get it because it seems so demonic like this doesn't really happen and It's hard to fathom
00:19:09
Speaker
And I'm sure I know you've gotten accusations of falsification and fabrication and things like that. It comes with the territory. Yeah, yeah. So what else is going on with the International House of Prayer?
00:19:33
Speaker
Well, they were predatory from the beginning. Let me reiterate that. The church was predatory from the beginning. They were grooming victims to sexually abuse from the get-go. That means in America, and I was abused in these situations by church leaders and churches that were built for the sole purpose of abusing and trafficking children. IHOP
00:20:01
Speaker
was developed by leaders who wanted access to children. I cannot overstate this. We do not have the luxury, nor do I believe we ever have, of assuming that a people group, a leadership group, an entity, a business, a location is inherently safe for our children.
00:20:26
Speaker
people who want to sexually abuse children are going to find themselves leadership positions that give them access unabated. Where do you think the most
00:20:40
Speaker
unmitigated access to children is granted in the world. It's churches because we're like, oh sloppy mercy and sloppy grace. He couldn't be doing that. He repented. He said he is sorry. I literally had someone tell me.
00:20:58
Speaker
And this was a man many years ago, I was doing this kind of work and he said to me that I was holding a grudge against an uncle of his that he had, which I wasn't. We were friends also and then doing this work. And the uncle had sexually abused this man's sister all of her young life.
00:21:19
Speaker
and impregnated her twice. And the family made excuses for him and had the babies and they're still in the family, okay? So I said, well, first of all, I don't have a relationship with him and I have nothing invested in forgiving or not forgiving him. And
00:21:40
Speaker
And I said, let me ask you this. I said, in your version of forgiveness, does that look like he, what? And he said, well, he admitted it and said he was sorry. And I said, oh, okay. Because what I think real repentance looks like is he admitted it and then went to the police and confessed that he was a criminal and went to jail.
00:22:06
Speaker
So we do the first one. The church is like, oh, well, he said he was sorry. And then we also have a culture inside the church where if a victim stands up and even if the guy admits it,
00:22:19
Speaker
they'll berate the victim and move her out of the church if it's a female. We have this ass-backward church culture, especially in America. In other countries, the church leaders would shoot the guy, but in America, we're just like, oh, let him sit over here. Well, you know, he said he was sorry.
00:22:38
Speaker
So, the IHOP KC thing, they've been doing this since the beginning. Misty Edwards is the, I don't know if she's the same person that you were talking about. There are multiple victims that have come forward. I don't think Misty Edwards has actually admitted and confessed. Misty Edwards was
00:22:57
Speaker
as had become an icon in deep worship music in the Christian community. Now what people need to know is if you've never heard of International House of Prayer, Kansas City,
00:23:12
Speaker
they became a church planting they became a mega worldwide church organization and each of the places they planted was open 24 hours a day so people had access to people 24 hours a day who were praying in the middle of the night and they were many of the leaders were married and having sex with 14 year old girls
00:23:37
Speaker
in the church, and so they positioned her. They were abusing her. She was having an affair at an underage with one of the men who to this day is still married and was leading in worship as well. The odd thing about the IHOP KC thing that's coming out now is there was a season in my life, again, I'm Christian, where people were constantly sending me video teachings of him,
00:24:04
Speaker
music by her. I couldn't stand them. I was absolutely repulsed by the way he taught. I was absolutely disgusted. To me, her worship music was very occult. So I felt all of the things that are now coming to light. And that was a cue to remember to trust my judgment. But this is
00:24:27
Speaker
What people don't realize is we don't see this on the national news. This is a lot more common than people believe. Just what, seven, eight years ago, the Southern Baptist Convention admitted to hiding the records of 700 child sexual abuse survivors who were abused by members, leaders, most of the time in their churches across the US. Well, where's that story?
00:24:54
Speaker
They admitted to right so in your experience how and where is this? Is this abuse within the church is taking place I mean like is are these
00:25:10
Speaker
I guess, you know, are they like, they know what they're doing, kind of like, they know what they're doing. Or, I mean, you talk about like, they satanic element of it. Are they pretending to be Christians, but they like, they are knowingly satanic, or they just kind of like, do they in the, do they in their heart believe that they are carrying out some sort of Christian mission? Like, like, or both? Could it be both?
00:25:34
Speaker
you know, or is this like, hey, we're going to pretend we're a Christian, but deep down, we know we're kind of somehow some sort of occult satanic? I think it's both. I think it's personality disorder, deeply personality, narcissistic, sociopathic. I think it's some people are completely sold out to Satan. I believe there are actually churches and church organizations that have more than one location in the US that are completely nefarious in nature and were founded.
00:26:02
Speaker
for the sole purpose of satanically, ritually abusing and trafficking children. And the problem is that we don't see a lot of that when it comes out coming into the national news. So unless someone like me is diving for that information, the general public is not going to see it.
Education and Cultural Issues
00:26:20
Speaker
But it is really, really a lot more common
00:26:24
Speaker
than people think. Alright parents, listen up. I hate to say it, but the stuff they're teaching your kids in schools these days is pure garbage. If they're not busy trying to turn your kids gay, then they're trying to turn them into little Marxist revolutionaries instead.
00:26:40
Speaker
Your kids don't stand a chance if you're not countering the propaganda they're getting at schools with a heavy dose of the truth at home. And the people I know who are doing the best work countering the false ideas of leftism with the sound principles of liberty are the folks at the Tuttle Twins. The Tuttle Twins offers books and curriculum for kids of all ages, from as young as three all the way up to high school.
00:27:03
Speaker
All of their books are firmly grounded in real history, sound economics, and foundational principles of liberty, as understood by our founding fathers. Last year, a 12-year-old boy named Jaden made headlines after a teacher tried to make him remove his Gadsden flag patch from his book bag, claiming it had origins with slavery.
00:27:23
Speaker
But, thanks to the Tuttle Twins books, Jayden successfully defended not just the true origins of the flag, which have nothing to do with slavery, but also his First Amendment rights to have the patch on his book bag in the first place. So if you want to raise a kid as based as Jayden, who knows his history and his rights, and won't be pushed around by leftist bullies, then get your kids some Tuttle Twins books today.
00:27:47
Speaker
head to libertyalliancenetwork.com slash Tuttle spelled T-U-T-T-L-E and check out some of their book bundles. That's libertyalliancenetwork.com slash Tuttle. Let's get back to the show.
00:28:01
Speaker
I was going to say, well, what would some of the red flags be for like, what would somebody, what would tip somebody off that this is kind of like, like a church that you should be aware of or something's off here or whatever? What would you, are there, is there a commonality with some of these, um, you know, bad churches? Uh, I think the,
00:28:21
Speaker
I think there's a two-fold problem. So I think there's a problem with the membership, right? There's the problem with regular people who go to churches and blindly trust, and there's a lot of them.
00:28:34
Speaker
I would say it is the preponderance of people who show up in churches. I heard someone teach recently a pastor. He said, there's only three kinds of people. The wise, the foolish, and the wicked. And I believe that a lot of people who go into churches would fall into the foolish category. And I'm not saying ignorant. I'm not saying stupid. I'm just saying foolish.
00:28:59
Speaker
have a worldview that doesn't allow them to believe that they need to protect their children in every environment. They may be a little bit more blindly trusting than I believe it warrants, the culture warrants at this point. So they go in unable to see the red flags. In their cases, I believe those people need to sit through training, awareness campaigns on safety, online safety, predatory behavior.
00:29:28
Speaker
on the church, so I don't know that they would see the red flags even if I say them, okay? On the church side, let's say, not say the church side, so let's say on the wisdom side. If someone is wise and walking into a church with children, they're already asking the right questions. What is the security measures inside of all of the youth-related entities inside the church? Young adults,
00:29:56
Speaker
the teen group, the middle school group, the children's group, the nursery. What are the safety protocols? And see, we've got to start doing this. We have to teach people who may not want to do this how to go in asking questions. It would be like betting a therapist or betting someone you want to get married to, right?
00:30:17
Speaker
What are the safety protocols? What are the consequences if somebody violates a safety protocol? How do I have access to my children via video the entire time? Is there access to that? How are these people vetted? And I want to say a cautionary thing.
00:30:36
Speaker
Most of the time, these people who are being outed right now, at Mike Bickel's church, IHOP Kansas City, I'll guarantee every single one of them has been background checked multiple times. But if you understand that in America right now, the average is about, the average predator of children will molest 117 children before they're arrested the first time.
00:31:02
Speaker
So to background check those people, they've already molested 100 kids. They're going to come up clean on a background check. So a background check cannot be our gauge for what is safe and OK with our kids. Churches, coaches, everything. We have to ask really hard, good questions.
Recognizing and Preventing Predatory Behavior in Churches
00:31:22
Speaker
And at any point in the questioning, if we get backlash from somebody in that church who says they're representing the church or the youth
00:31:32
Speaker
programs, then you need to leave then, that day. Have you been following the Micah Miller, John Paul Miller case?
00:31:42
Speaker
Yes. In South Carolina where he was a pastor and his wife supposedly committed suicide, but it kind of goes back to like what I said at the beginning where there's like some, it doesn't matter. It just so happens we're talking about the church right now, but it can happen in any position of power where you talk about this megalomania and the narcissism and everything, but you get these people in the position of power and they abuse it.
00:32:12
Speaker
and particularly against the most vulnerable who are our children. Well have you listened to anything from the pulpit with that John Paul Miller guy? A little bit, not a ton, but I've seen a little bit.
00:32:26
Speaker
60 seconds in, and it's very clear to me, I realize it's not to other people, but to me, less than 60 seconds. I'm like, you're guilty. You're a predator. You've been a predator. You are a predator, right?
00:32:42
Speaker
There are things that he says and does that are so anti-biblical, so sociopathy. He's absolutely terrible. But we have a lot of people who just don't have good judgment. This is why I am a huge proponent of mentoring.
00:33:01
Speaker
I believe every person, every human, if you don't have a good solid family unit, and even if you do, it's great to have outsiders step in and give you different perspectives without mentoring, really quality mentoring
00:33:18
Speaker
We're just not going to grow in wisdom the way we need to. And so many people just blindly trust and follow either culture or the church and don't ask any questions. And if the last four years has taught us anything, it's to ask great questions. Right. Well, and I think I think part of it, too, is
00:33:46
Speaker
the number of Christians who don't actually open their Bible. Because... What? Yeah. Right. Well, so they go to church every Sunday.
00:33:57
Speaker
and they hear the pastor speak and if you don't read your bible you can't actually discern if what the pastor is telling you is like biblically accurate or like if there's something unsettling about the way his mannerisms what he's actually preaching because like you said hey within 60 seconds i could tell that this
00:34:16
Speaker
John paul miller guy i mean i like i said the few things i mean he's hearing out his dirty laundry on the pulpit you know with his wife no like that that should not even be culturally acceptable so the point i didn't make very well earlier about the difference between people in the church in the leadership so.
00:34:37
Speaker
One of the problems with, let me word it more better because I don't want to judge people because I am a people. We go to church and most of us come from a dysfunctional environment. So unless we've taken the time to heal and go through counseling and be mentored and all of those things that we need to invest in as humans,
00:35:01
Speaker
When we get around a similar dysfunction, we won't be able to spot it. So my guess is that a lot of the people inside these churches where this guy's probably murdered his wife, that's my opinion, I'm sticking to it. And the IHOP KC thing is that there were a lot of people who had probably been from very broken environments and had not done enough healing
00:35:30
Speaker
to be able to discern what was going on. And those kind of people that these predators draw actually end up undergirding all of this abuse. And that's not an accusation that they're doing it willfully. They're doing it out of some sort of ignorance. But we carry our past with us. And a lot of times it puts us around people who are doing similar things that had been done to us when we were younger.
00:35:59
Speaker
and we just don't recognize it yet. We don't recognize it as abnormal. We don't have a gauge for what's okay and what's not okay. So it's tragic. I hope, I'm pretty sure that guy's gonna go to jail.
Tim Ballard Scandal and Manipulation Tactics
00:36:16
Speaker
Yeah, we'll see. I mean, the facts are still coming out. There's some shenanigans regardless. I mean, maybe he can't be held criminally liable, but I think that they're trying to,
00:36:27
Speaker
Create some other kind of like a civil case against them or something for Some contributing factors, but Yeah, so, you know and then okay. So speaking of megalomate megalomaniacal I can't ever say that word but narcissism. Yeah, that's it. No, we're gonna get there Okay, we're gonna get there Tim Ballard
00:36:49
Speaker
Tim Ballard. Oh, for the love of Jesus. Yeah, exactly. Because the last time we spoke, this was right when the sound of freedom was huge and everything. And I know you didn't directly say it at the time, because it hadn't come out publicly yet. But I know you alluded to it maybe either in the interview or maybe before or after, in just our conversation. You didn't directly say it, but I could tell you were holding something back.
00:37:19
Speaker
but it hadn't come out yet at that time what has since come out now about Tim Ballard and who he actually is as a person and people still and people don't know still they still they like because you know like it didn't make a splash in the headlines they buried it pretty well about him and what he's going on so why don't you educate us about Tim Ballard
00:37:44
Speaker
Well, and this is a classic case of even when the truth has come out and the very first lawsuit with six victims has been made public, even without their names initially, if anybody would take the time to read the document, you'd have to be an absolute idiot to think he was not probably guilty.
00:38:09
Speaker
like the specificity of what's in that case is pretty undeniable. And so what happened was
00:38:18
Speaker
they made their way into the Christian conservative Patriot movement. And I watched it happen, and I knew what they were doing. In my opinion, I knew. Who's them? I knew him, Jim Caviezel, Mel Gibson, doing all these podcasts and stuff, because they were Hollywood and nonprofit. And then suddenly, they were on every Patriot stage in the United States.
00:38:44
Speaker
you know, with all kinds of big names and they were doing all these podcasts and I thought, oh, I see what you're doing. And I'll tell you why they did it.
00:38:52
Speaker
because they knew the writing was coming. The writing on the wall was coming. Things were happening behind the scenes. Victims were coming forward already. And they knew that if they got to the Christian conservative community, that we would be the last ones to believe the truth when it came out. I still have people today saying, that's not true. He's being set up. These victims who are accusing him of sexual assault, they're part
00:39:21
Speaker
of the deep state plan to take him down because he was doing such great work. No, he's a sexual predator. And what he did was go all across the world and especially the nation and pretend he was somebody else to throw everybody's scent off. And now you don't want to believe it because the hardest thing we've seen it in the last four years, the hardest thing to do is when we're wrong and we are presented with proof that we're wrong.
00:39:51
Speaker
is admitting that we were wrong. It takes a unique individual to do that, and most aren't willing to go there. I have had people lose their minds on me. So Tim Ballard, a lot of people don't know he worked for the DHS. So he was part of Department of Homeland Security. He was supposedly working in anti-trafficking efforts.
00:40:18
Speaker
under Hillary Clinton's State Department. So he had kind of a long history there. I had read about him and known about him just prior to him starting OUR. So by the time he launched OUR, I had our Operation Underground Railroad, which is considered the pinnacle of anti- it was considered the pinnacle of anti-trafficking organizations in the country, one of them.
00:40:46
Speaker
It certainly came with a lot of glitz and glamour and a lot of finances. So he almost overnight became a very wealthy man. I think that his personal net worth last year or the year before was in excess of $20 million.
00:41:06
Speaker
as a nonprofit person. So we have, I believe, eight victims right now. The number keeps growing a little bit. But initially, we had six victims come out saying that he had been sexually harassing, had sexually assaulted them. The Utah Attorney General, his last name is Reyes. He's under investigation for sweeping these allegations under the rug for Tim Ballard.
00:41:34
Speaker
for years. So he's in a lot of trouble. The first six women came forward. The case was the documents were made public. You can go online and find them. And in one case, I believe a what he was doing was he was pretending he so he has this organization
00:41:55
Speaker
where he's supposed to be the savior of the world for children. And he gets grown women to volunteer and he's married for the organization. And he tells them that he's going to take them to another country and they've got to pretend that they are his girlfriend.
00:42:10
Speaker
so that traffickers will believe it. And he would take them out in bars at night where they'd be sweet talking and handling each other, like fondling each other in bars and stuff. And this was all part of a couple's ruse. And he said that the Church of Latter-day Saints actually sanctioned their approval of him doing that. They came out last year and said, absolutely not. And then that leader passed away a few weeks after that.
00:42:40
Speaker
Yeah, there's some weird stuff, so not making accusations. Anyway, they're saying in one case the woman was assaulted in another country by a trafficker in the presence of Tim Ballard. So he was putting them in harm's way and they were spending tens of thousands of dollars to go on spa vacations in other countries and pretend that they were there pretending to be couples
00:43:08
Speaker
and that they were doing something in trafficking and I mean expensive spa vacations and what a lot of people don't realize is um a month before the movie came out last year so much of this was beginning to surface but not
00:43:23
Speaker
wildly public, that was obvious to the general population, that Operation Underground Railroad's board had to remove Tim Ballard from his own organization he started, and they also had to publicly admit that the sound of freedom was not based on a true story, and it was a lie he had been telling for eight years.
00:43:48
Speaker
And you can find that in open police records that that was not a true story. Well, and then I think too, wasn't part of it too where he was part of the, you know, the ruse with these women was that he was basically saying he was like ordained from God or God was telling him that this is
00:44:08
Speaker
Like you know messianic figure and that they needed to submit to him because God told him to basically wasn't there some element of that going on as well? Yes, and so He was he was of his own volition taking ketamine treatments ketamine ketamine and that's the thing that killed Michael Matthew Perry and
00:44:30
Speaker
They're actually investigating his death right now. So, ketamine is something usually used to take people off of drugs. It's a very serious psychological drug, pharmaceutical, and a lot of people are using it outside of its written parameters right now to reduce things like depression and stuff.
00:44:50
Speaker
I am an absolutely opposed to it outside of its original parameters for drug addiction. I have seen and heard a lot of really negative stories. So he was taking ketamine treatments. And while he was taking these ketamine treatments, he was telling people, and he's been doing this for years. This was publicly available 10 years ago that he was doing, saying this crazy stuff.
00:45:14
Speaker
So he was telling these victims and anybody near him that he was channeling the ghost of Joseph Smith who started the Mormon Church. So while he would take ketamine treatments, he's channeling the spirit of Joseph Smith, which I got all kinds of questions about him.
00:45:35
Speaker
He started that church channeling spirits as well. So Tim's channeling spirits while he's under ketamine IV treatments, and he is saying that he is going to be a U.S. Senator, and then after he's Senator, that God has called him to be a U.S. Senator. Then he's going to be the President of the United States, and after that, he is going to be ushering in the second coming of Christ.
Legislative Challenges in Child Protection
00:46:05
Speaker
Wow.
00:46:08
Speaker
And that's the first six. And that had to go into civil case because they couldn't get anybody to act on that criminally. But there has been a criminal investigation started by another victim. And I want to say one thing because this is a big defense that people use. I can't tell you how many times I hear a man or a woman go, well, false allegation. There's much a false allegation. There's all these false accusations of sexual abuse. It's just all false.
00:46:38
Speaker
I had someone who was chairing a committee on trafficking, anti-trafficking, tell me that, well, they're all just about the Tim Ballard victim. Well, they're all just a bunch of liars. No, actually, statistically, that's been disproven. People think that, I've asked people, what do you think the percentage is of false allegations? 35, 50%, 60, absolutely false. Brown University has done
00:47:05
Speaker
a comprehensive 10-year study. And it was adults, right? So it's not children. That's a different arena. Children are way less likely to tell. So in adults who experience sexual assault, over 10-year study, they used a criminal legal criteria to determine whether the accusation being made was true or false based on whether or not they could
00:47:32
Speaker
prosecute, pursue a criminal case, okay? That's the criteria. And in what they found is that 95% of the victims do not report. So in 10 years of studying the 5% who do, less than 4% of those would they consider what the legal criteria to be false.
00:47:58
Speaker
or not enough for them to pursue a case. So when you spread that 4% out over the 100% and include the 95% who don't report, it's literally like under 1%.
00:48:12
Speaker
And I'm not saying that we have not seen it. I think politically we have seen it recently, but typically it's one person coming forward. When two or more people come forward as victims, the chance of it being false is minuscule above zero. Right.
00:48:31
Speaker
And there are eight victims who come forward. Most of them are for someone to come forward against a person like that in that position with his background in politics and the DHS. And we saw it here in Florida with
00:48:48
Speaker
Christian Ziegler. People want to say that was a false case because the sheriff's office decided not to pursue a rape charge. Deciding not to pursue a rape charge is not innocence, right? So in these cases, what a victim, especially an adult victim,
00:49:06
Speaker
has to be concerned about is these are people of prominence. I could die. I could be killed for coming forward. Or I would at least be so doxed and so harassed for the next 10, 15, 20 years that I would never be able to live a normal life again. It is risky business for them. So I don't believe that these people are telling tales and that it's false.
00:49:30
Speaker
and the general population needs to wake up and quit saying that kind of stuff. That narrative that there are so many false cases is actually it creates the culture by which raping children and adults is possible.
00:49:48
Speaker
our culture of disbelieving is actually the problem. So when people say, what do I do? How can I make a difference? Believe victims. Start right there. Excellent advice. Do you want to go Florida legislative session or do you want to talk about Hollywood entertainment, pity, p-ditty? Well, let's be legislative. I think it's simpler and then we'll dive into p-ditty.
00:50:10
Speaker
And the pastors who'd like to hang out at p-dity parties. That's right. Exactly. T-J. Okay. Legislation. Yeah. Yeah. So we had in Florida, we did, we are at least playing offense to an extent and trying to get legislation passed. We did
00:50:29
Speaker
managed to pass several bills. Some of them were not as robust as we would hope them to be. You were, at the time, in a role for a political organization. So you were at least somewhat involved in advocating and possibly crafting some of this legislature, working with people who were crafting the legislation, etc. So you kind of got the
00:50:56
Speaker
behind the scenes look at how these things work. What did you learn from that whole experience about how the sausage was made and what can you tell us about it?
00:51:07
Speaker
OK, well, what I learned was I told God no a year and a half ago to legislation and that he laughs at those who tell him no. And I I actually what I actually really ended up doing this year was not really so much in conjunction with this politically grassroots organization. I really kind of had to do it on my own. I built a legislative team. We've got about a dozen people right now, including gays against groomers.
00:51:35
Speaker
Florida state leaders love them. They are wonderful. They went up to Tallahassee and testified with us. And so we built this small little legislative team and all of us are novices and kind of just were indoctrinated by fire. We're like, oh my God, how do we do this?
00:51:50
Speaker
On my team is a young woman named Allie Hopper and she is out of Sarasota, Florida. Her and her dad last year this time drafted an anti-grooming bill and I'm going to say as a novice doing that
00:52:05
Speaker
They found someone to sponsor it, Taylor Yarkosky out of Lake County, and then Doug Bankson out of Orange County, Apopka area. He became the co-sponsor. Then there were other add-ons later. On the Senate side, the sponsor was Senator Jonathan Martin out of Fort Myers.
00:52:22
Speaker
He's such a good guy, such a good guy. And what happened was they took that to Tallahassee and started on the House side in committee and we reached some opposition. However, one of the things the legislator said about Allie and her dad's draft was that it was absolutely impeccable.
00:52:44
Speaker
like nothing needed to be changed it was great bill and it was actually historic in its nature there were several other states in the u.s that had sessions after we did who also attempted to get that exact draft passed in their states some
00:53:02
Speaker
a little of it got passed and most of them it didn't get passed because they hit the same thing we did. In the first two House committees in Florida, it has to go through, each side has to go, it doesn't have to, but in general it typically goes through two or three committees on the House side and the Senate side and then basically what you want is for these two bills to marry each other.
00:53:25
Speaker
And so they may have to make some amends to one another before they get married, but that's what we're looking for and for everybody to say yes at the end. In the first two House committees, there was opposition by the LGBTQ community and they are represented in Florida by Equality Florida.
00:53:41
Speaker
I had the privilege of actually meeting the main spokesperson for them who is their attorney and I have to say he's an articulate, really bright, amiable person. I found him to be easier to work with and talk to sometimes than people on our side.
00:53:59
Speaker
If there are sides and so there was some opposition we made some adjustments in the first two committees They were concerned about things like you said we don't want to vilify somebody if you know in a gray area They were concerned about teachers and that kind of stuff And so we modified some of those things by the time we got to the third committee Which was headed by Keith true now out of Lake County He is he was the head of the criminal justice subcommittee once we got there me and my team went up and
00:54:28
Speaker
Gays Against Groomers went up. We all testified in committee and it passed with flying colors, including Equality Florida. They were like, yes, we're with you. They testified on our behalf. And so we thought, woo, smooth sailing. And then we go to the Senate side. And we had a lot of challenges on the Senate side. It was very discouraging to know that we live in a state that has the first super majority since the Civil War. And for people who don't know,
00:54:57
Speaker
That means we have a massive Republican majority in our House and Senate.
00:55:03
Speaker
And it didn't seem to do us as much good as we were hoping last session and this session. When we were trying to get some of the child protection legislation or anti exploitation legislation passed this session, we hit some really big speed bumps on the Senate side. And I have since had conversations with legislators. And the thing that I have come to understand is that
00:55:29
Speaker
This is my opinion, not what legislators said. So my opinion part is that I believe that we have people who would consider themselves to be Republican, who take financial support from people who don't hold our values.
00:55:43
Speaker
in child protection. So it could be Equality Florida, LGBT, transgender community, that kind of stuff. Maybe even the national education union, that kind of stuff. So we hit opposition. The other thing from a legislator's perspective is that a lot of these people are actual lawyers.
00:56:05
Speaker
who come into these positions so we'll have senators that are lawyers and they're looking at it from a very left-brain perspective not an experiential perspective like with victims and so they're seeing things that are jot and tittle stuff in terms of legal terms that they're just not sure of so all i will say is that senator martin on the senate side did some very
00:56:26
Speaker
clever wrangling. He had some good conversations with people who had opposition. He tried to settle, allay their fears. He tried to make adjustments and ultimately we ended up with just one of the three components getting passed. It was a dog fight. It was an absolute dog fight. I could not believe how many people on our side
00:56:48
Speaker
If you sat through the house floor hearing and the day they dealt with this one, it was 12 hours long that day. It was one of the last days of session. It was a dog fight trying to get it passed. But we got it. And the piece that we got passed is what's called a pattern of behavior. And what it means is
00:57:07
Speaker
a law enforcement official and a judge can see or decide, was there a pattern of behavior in communication, either in person, either on technology, that was luring that minor under the age of 16 into the possibility of a sexualized conversation or action? And what law enforcement and legislators have told me is that
00:57:35
Speaker
law enforcement officers and judges will typically see a pattern as two or more communications. So they have a little bit of leeway to decide we would like to see a standard set for what a pattern is.
00:57:51
Speaker
Yeah, and well, I think it's a, like you said, disappointing as an outside observer to see that, you know, and this goes for obviously the grooming legislation, it taught, you know, we could say the same thing for things like COVID, you know, or medical freedom legislation too.
00:58:08
Speaker
Yeah, right. How we have a Republican supermajority in both houses and a Republican governor, and yet we're passing like milk toast legislation that's, you know, and this is just a criticism of like Republicans in general, you know, like with Democrats and progressives and liberals, you give them an inch, they take a mile, you know, and then with us, it's like you give us a mile, we take an inch.
00:58:34
Speaker
You know, so it's like, we've got a super majority and what do we do? Well, we get the least robust thing past we can that still like keeps us relatively happy, you know, like the base from revolting. So we do the bare minimum, in other words.
00:58:51
Speaker
And I think, um, well, one of the, my understanding, you can correct me. One of the major people who was throwing up roadblocks was the Senate president herself, Kathleen Passadomo. Um, and I think what I understood maybe from you or other people was, uh, going back to the follow the money where she gets certain money or backing from LGBTQ, um, donors, et cetera. I mean, I don't know. I mean, cause I'm sitting there thinking what.
00:59:21
Speaker
What is the charitable explanation for why they wouldn't want this passed? Is there a charitable explanation before we just start out throwing accusations of groomer or whatever? Is it just they're just unprincipled and it doesn't matter whoever's padding their paychecks?
00:59:43
Speaker
I am dumbfounded by the fact that child protection legislation gets heatedly debated or opposed in any manner from either party. We were looking at 28 pieces of proposed legislation in child protection and anti exploitation.
01:00:01
Speaker
I think seven ultimately got some part of them passed out of 28. And quite frankly, more of them were actually initiated by Democrats and many of them didn't go anywhere because of our super majority than were actually initiated by Republicans on the Republican side.
01:00:21
Speaker
It was an odd time. I don't know Kathleen Passadomo's role in that. I do know as Senate president, she has a lot of weight. So if she wanted it passed, I believe she would have pushed it and it would have sailed through. So we can surmise that because it didn't get pushed through easily, that there were some challenges. I have heard from legislators that
01:00:45
Speaker
The term grooming had to be taken out of any piece of legislation. There were people who said absolutely no way will they vote for it with that term in there.
01:00:56
Speaker
And that goes back to what I said about us culturally, somebody who is powers that be in the last eight years, six years, knew that they needed to create a narrative around that word that would make it absolutely impossible to do something about that legally.
01:01:16
Speaker
Well, I guess, you know, the left has always been better at semantics and everything, just like how they last year they termed the don't say gay bill, even though the word gay is nowhere in the legislation. So it's kind of the opposite where maybe we should have called it the anti grooming bill.
01:01:34
Speaker
even though the word grooming wasn't at all in the legislation, but you know, two can play that game, right? Well, and if you go onto Equality Florida's website, you can always see like they actually had rewrites for every single bill that they were against. And they had one against ours. I forget what they against the anti grooming bill. And I forget what it's called. I think it was like send a teacher to jail bill. So it was something ludicrous. And they were responsible for the don't say gay.
01:02:03
Speaker
moniker that was used last year on the other legislation. What was your biggest lesson that you learned from that whole experience in terms of getting legislation passed or how to get it passed or maybe the intentions and motives of our legislators and why we can't get
01:02:24
Speaker
you know, conservative, truly conservative legislation passed even in a red state. What can we take away from that whole experience? I learned that it's not over till the fat lady sings, which means you may think it's going swimmingly and then it may go nowhere. And the opposite is also true. You may see something not happen at all. And two days before sessions out on the floor of one of the houses,
01:02:52
Speaker
it gets passed. So it is definitely a white knuckle experience in a lot of ways. Regarding legislators, I think there's a lot of great people. I think one of the things that conservative Republicans are known for that needs to change is that we have some very black and white thinking, especially anyone who has been awakened in the last four years.
Activism and Community Engagement
01:03:15
Speaker
We think that if a legislator doesn't get everything passed that we want, if they have to negotiate on anything, if they won't answer our questions publicly, they are wrong. They're on the wrong side of the law. They're part of the deep state. They're nefarious. We have all these terms that we want to use for them. And the reality is there are great legislators in the state of Florida whom God has assigned to be in Tallahassee, and they are doing good work. However,
01:03:44
Speaker
They've been positioned in a swamp of politics, you know, that's Trump's term, and they have to be able to go in and get their boots muddy and wrestle with some pigs, and they're not going to get everything we want. And for us to then claim that they're bad
01:04:01
Speaker
is wrong. It's just wrong. I've met some great legislators. I've sat down personally and talked with great legislators, personally, privately, that I think are wonderful people that I'm not going to always get everything I'd like to see passed from them. And that doesn't make them bad. So that's a big one around that process. The third thing I will say is that
01:04:27
Speaker
If you think that legislation gets passed willy-nilly magically, you rub a genie and somebody else is doing the work and it happens, you are wrong. If protecting children matters to you, you need to be watching the bills, get involved with an organization, get on an email list with Haley or somebody else. Maybe that's what we'll do this next session is we'll have Haley put somewhere on the website.
01:04:51
Speaker
and we'll do some short little updates when she's doing other guests where we can talk about calls to action. It absolutely matters. Legislation gets passed when there's opposition in either direction. Legislation gets passed or killed based on constituents contacting their representatives and senators. We had the Speaker of the House call someone inside of our organization and say,
01:05:18
Speaker
What you guys are doing actually makes a difference, and I need help on something. These calls to action matter. So one of the things my team is doing is we're compiling, even out of our personal phone list, what district do they live in? Who is their senator? Soon, Haley, I'm going to know who your senator is and who your rep is. And when we need something passed next session, Haley is going to get an email or a phone call or a text going, contact your rep.
01:05:48
Speaker
I can do that. I was at a town hall with them about a month or so ago. I talked about it a little bit on the show because I stood up and asked an important question about, again, the legislative session and why they didn't do anything about medical freedom.
01:06:04
Speaker
accountability for covid crimes against humanity and i got an applause for my question um so uh and they're again republicans these are this is friendly fire but you got to hold their feet to the fire dude come on you do they have to know that that's not what we want they have to know when we do want something because
01:06:22
Speaker
because they do work for us. Many of them may not actually function that way, but I think there are many who do. They just need to hear from us. It would be ignorant for me to expect that these legislators understand sexual abuse crimes against children or trafficking. Many of them are lawyers or businessmen. Unless we're willing to sit down and educate them, have conversations with them,
01:06:48
Speaker
They're not going to be able to do anything or they're not going to be able to do it as well. So every one of you has a voice with your politicians. We need you to use it. Right. And especially at a local level, I think a lot of us have written off, you know, Washington, D.C., but the state and local levels are far different. You do have an impact. Your voice does matter. Your phone calls do matter. Your emails do matter. Maybe they go into some sort of black hole and abyss up in D.C. and the swamp. I mean,
01:07:17
Speaker
Probably so you can call and whatever till your heart's content and send an email and you get the stupid form letter back that doesn't even address whatever concern you're saying but. That's not the same for your local and state legislation and you have to get involved you can make a difference at that level and that covered taught me that too i was kind of like.
01:07:37
Speaker
Apathetic about voting and getting involved and I still am at a federal level, but absolutely I saw how important it is to have the right people in place Because even the lowly little city commissioners or health boards you think that they're lowly until all of a sudden they're shutting down Society in the world as we know it and then all of a sudden it's like oh, okay The mayor does make a difference our health boards do make a difference the county commissioners and the school board does matter Etc. Etc. So you do have to get
Abuse in the Entertainment Industry
01:08:04
Speaker
involved. So Okay. Well
01:08:07
Speaker
Can we shoehorn in some we're running short in time, but like let's try and shoehorn in some of the entertainment industry stuff this this whole Diddy thing and It's just the tip of the tip of the iceberg. But yeah You were gonna say something. I Don't even know where to start with him. How did anybody not know what he was doing? Well, they did just like they knew Epstein was doing everybody knew about it Like I mean, you know, it was it was well known it was well known I'm sure they knew absolutely what Diddy was doing to
01:08:37
Speaker
But it's like everybody in Harvey Weinstein, everybody knew what Harvey Weinstein was doing. But this is just the way the game is played. And talking about being of the world versus in the world, well, all these worldly people.
01:08:50
Speaker
the worldly people who want the riches of the world and the successes of the world. And in order to attain that, they have to play the game and they do play the game because this is to them, the pinnacle of life is like, hey, I want to accumulate as much wealth and power and status for myself right here because possibly in most cases, they don't believe there's anything after this. So I got to get me and get mine as much as I can in this life because I believe that this is
01:09:17
Speaker
the only shot I've got, so I'm gonna do whatever it takes, no matter how awful and how horrible and how disgusting it is. So absolutely, I'm sure, it's such a well-known fact that they have frickin' Oscar speeches that the hosts are making fun of, the pedophile problem they have in Hollywood in the entertainment industry. That's such a fair game that they're talking about it and making fun of it on these awards shows. So absolutely, everybody knew about it, but nobody says anything about it because then your career's over.
01:09:46
Speaker
or they blackmail you or your debt or they blackmailed you beforehand yeah and here's here's my okay so i have to throw out the fact that t.d jakes was seen at many of his parties yep and if people you know we can't i say it over and over we cannot afford to have idols your pastor's not your idol your operation underground railroad guy is not your idol these aren't your idols you cannot afford because they are all
01:10:15
Speaker
human like we are and they are all capable of being different people than we think. In the case of Diddy and TD Jakes, there have been people who have had outcries against TD Jakes
01:10:30
Speaker
for a long time. There have been accusations, not against just him, but his family, his daughter, stealing of a child from a trafficking victim, saying they were going to help her, and then adopting that child into their family. There is some crazy stuff with TD Jakes. When I see things like Harvey Weinstein and P. Diddy and others, my question is always this.
01:10:58
Speaker
And who was the R. Kelly? Okay. Here's my question is, why are they the scapegoat now? What was happening or better yet, who was involved that they have to get the focus off of right now and throw a scapegoat?
01:11:21
Speaker
to the world, to the powers that be, to law enforcement. What else is going on that we're not seeing while we are basically making Diddy pay for everything? And I'm not saying he's innocent. I don't think so. I think he was absolutely horrible, horrible human being. I've seen the video of him kicking his girlfriend. He was absolute malicious psychopath. He's not innocent. That's not what I'm proclaiming. But why are we looking at him
01:11:49
Speaker
take a fall and take responsibility for a whole crew of people just like we did with Epstein. And we're seeing nobody else's name. Yeah. And I think what I saw, I haven't corroborated this, but what I've seen floating around on the interwebs about that video with him being his girlfriend is that
01:12:07
Speaker
Conveniently it's been released just after the statute of limitations has expired so you know somebody's been holding on to this for I mean and again why now why now. Six eight years after the fact did they release it you know and so yeah I mean that's always a question why now why did.
01:12:26
Speaker
Harvey was a good boy for such a long time. So why did he end up taking the fall? I think it's telling too, they talk about the ditty connection and now you go back in retrospect and you look at some of this previous footage of like ditty with Justin Bieber and how awkward Justin Bieber is looking like standing next to him with this kind of like timid little shy smile you talk about.
01:12:50
Speaker
his relationship to usher usher he like literally like i don't know if it was um legally but he basically claimed proclaimed him as his adopted son at one point and now how ushers rose you know risen to fame he just performed the super bowl and so like i talk about this like off and on about like how the game is played you get ahead by by being the worst unfortunately so you go through the hoops either as a victim or as
01:13:18
Speaker
a predator. So, you know, some of these females I think are victimized, like I would say like Britney Spears and the females tend to be more victimized. But the more you're victimized, the more they elevate you too. So it's kind of like your reward for being the victim is if, hey, if you keep being victimized, we'll keep, you know, showering you with albums and Grammys and
01:13:40
Speaker
you know, awards and riches as your prize. Again, because it goes back to this like Satanism, this occultism, this like, I don't know. I mean, it all fits together. I don't profess to know the exact way it is, but that's, it's basically an occultism. These are rites of passage or passage. These are humiliation rituals, et cetera.
Parental Guidance and Values
01:14:03
Speaker
And they use this to wield blackmail and you can't get out because, you know, if you try to escape,
01:14:09
Speaker
They're going to basically do something. They'll harm your family. You see so many of these celebrities that seem to have people around them who have died or tragedies around them. You talk about what's going on with that Nickelodeon movie that came out about exposing what happened at Nickelodeon.
01:14:31
Speaker
behind the scenes with people like Ariana Grande pouring water all over herself. It's just disgusting. It is insane. Just like what you said, we can't have idols. People need to snap out of this like, hey, I'm a Swifty. I don't care how good Taylor Swift's music is.
01:14:52
Speaker
When she's out there promoting Satanism, you need to get over your being a Swifty. You need to understand that this is out there and people don't understand it because it's, again, your experience. People don't believe it.
01:15:05
Speaker
because it sounds too far-fetched and too out there, but I'm like, it is right there in your face. They're not even hiding it anymore. And yet you still don't believe it. That's a scary part of culture that we're in. And they do that because they know we're at a place where they have gaslit our intuition collectively so much.
01:15:24
Speaker
that we don't even stop and take heed to the fact that my warning bells inside my gut just went off. Because we have people next to us going, oh, it couldn't be the pastor. He's such a great guy. Couldn't be the teacher. Or, oh, you're just like, they're so nice. You're just overthinking things. We live in a collective gaslighting culture. And when we do that, they can be more bold.
01:15:51
Speaker
and in our face with the unveiling of what they're really doing and then we're still like walking around not paying attention and it's like what they're doing with the with the trans stuff too you know like we can't have like the men in the women's changing room well
01:16:09
Speaker
that little gut feeling that this is wrong, well they are not allowing females and girls, they're overriding that because now you're a bad person, you're a transphobe. If all of a sudden your little spidey sense, your gut feeling, your alarm bells are going off in your head and you say something, so now you're overriding that and you don't want to be a bad person.
01:16:31
Speaker
If we don't speak out, if we don't speak out against it, and if we don't, which can be risky, but if we don't speak out against it, and if we don't stop supporting like Hollywood movies that are pushing it, TV stations, cable networks, that kind of stuff, then we're part of the issue. Please hear me.
01:16:51
Speaker
I'm not a purist. I don't believe that it's possible, especially in the United States, to live here and buy groceries. There are places that wouldn't let us get COVID meds. We couldn't get hydroxychloroquine at Publix. They wouldn't allow it. I'm not suggesting that we can go off the grid
01:17:12
Speaker
And we're not giving our finances to some organization like Amazon or Whole Foods, which is owned by Amazon that we don't agree with. But as much as we can, I believe we should. We should at least limit it. My final thought to parents who are listening and grandparents.
01:17:31
Speaker
We have to teach our kids to trust their intuition. That's a big one. Two thoughts. We need to teach our kids to trust their intuition because we are living in a culture that gaslights intuition and it is the God-given ability to know when something's off. And one of the ways we do that is my second point.
01:17:52
Speaker
The percentage to which your children and grandchildren spend an environment outside of your values is the percentage to which their identity will be formed. So if they spend 95% of their time outside of your family home, your family, your values, right?
01:18:10
Speaker
then 95% of their identity is going to be formed in that culture. We have to really pay attention to that. Especially in the first 10 years, if we can keep them insulated more, and this is not helicopter parenting, this is insulating them inside a culture of our values. If we can do that, it's like a banker learning to find $100 bills and know their $100 bills.
01:18:36
Speaker
The minute a counterfeit comes along, the banker then knows. Not because they've studied counterfeits, but because they've been insulated with real $100 bills. If we will do this with our children, then the minute they get out near culture a little bit more, places outside of our values, they'll be like, ugh. And I know it works. I have a daughter and I raised her that way. The minute she's around something that doesn't smell right, she's like, ugh, that is counterfeit.
01:19:05
Speaker
That is such a tweak the way we raise our kids. And that is such an important point. And, um, you know, another kind of like, uh, internet meme that's going around is talking about like, look, if you think sending your kid to Sunday school for one hour a week where they're going to color a picture of Noah's arc is going to be adequate armor to fight off.
01:19:28
Speaker
96 hours of indoctrination in a secular school, you're highly misguided. So that one hour of Sunday school, you might think, oh, my child's getting a nice Christian upbringing. No, they are not. That one hour a week
01:19:44
Speaker
of Christian coloring Noah's Ark is not going to do anything to fight back against the secular worldly conditioning they're getting at most public schools in those public school environments. So that's such an important point.
01:20:00
Speaker
All right, Catherine, we are going long, but this has just been such an engaging and engrossing conversation. I couldn't stop and I wanted to keep going. I could still, I could talk to you for another 45 minutes. I know. We'll do it again. Awesome. I always give my guests the final words. So the name of the show is What Can We Do? I know we kind of talked in the lots of different, you know, human trafficking, sex trafficking, sexual assault. It's such a big topic that encompasses, as we talked about today, so many areas of life.
01:20:27
Speaker
So however best you want to and whichever way you think you want to go with this, but what can we do in this world to fight back and to stay sane in this insane world that we're in?
01:20:41
Speaker
Well, I'm trying to figure that out myself. The one thing I'll say is that Haley is wonderful about bringing myriad guests on her show in all kinds of different lanes of things that need to be dealt with or changed or tweaked or we want to influence and
01:20:58
Speaker
While that's wonderful, sometimes us on the receiving end can feel a little overwhelmed. People can feel overwhelmed by my message as well and I'm sensitive to that. So what I encourage people to do is pick one thing. Pick one lane, pick one thing and say for the next six months I just want to tweak this one thing. I want to tweak the way I parent or I want to send
01:21:21
Speaker
emails to legislators or I want to get into one of the local organizations where I can be involved with the medical freedom movement. Just pick one thing and try to not inundate yourself with all of the many issues
01:21:39
Speaker
that we're wanting to influence for change to protect our next generation. Just pick one because if you'll stay with one and not get distracted, you'll become so effective. And that's Haley's message is we all have the capacity to influence change. So you can do it. Yes, that's such such great advice. Where can people follow you? Where can people find you online?
01:22:02
Speaker
Okay, I have a website that is live, but it is in the process of being built. It is called A Restored Grace. It's restored past tense with a D as in dog, arestoredgrace.com. And that's where you find me on Instagram, Facebook,
01:22:19
Speaker
Twitter and TikTok. It's all arestoredgrace.com. You can email me at arestoredgraceatyahoo.com until the website becomes more active. So, we'd love to hear from you. Perfect. Yeah, she's very accessible. So, Catherine, as always, have enjoyed it. And I know, obviously, we're going to stay in contact and stay in touch. But
01:22:44
Speaker
Thank you so much for your time, for your insight, for your experience, for your wisdom, and for all your advocacy and tireless work in trying to protect children and bring awareness to this important topic. So we will talk to you again soon.