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Working to Create Valuable Leisure Time - a conversation with Jessper Maquindang
9 Plays2 days ago
The way we work impacts how much leisure time we have and how well we can enjoy that leisure time.
Jessper Maquindang is the founder of Familead Consulting a specialist in improving employee productivity and engagement.
The expression is, work life balance, but many people believe that the order should be reversed, life work balance. This they argue is because life is more important than work.
They may be correct, but Jessper Maquindang argues that without a strong work life it is very difficult to have a good life.
In this episode of the Abeceder work life balance podcast Rest and Recreation Jessper Maquindang explains to host Michael Millward how anyone, but especially managers can be more effective and efficient at work so they can create more opportunities for leisure.
Their conversation covers:
- Easy ways to be more efficient and effective at work.
- Living workplace values
- The importance of delegation
- Communicating with colleagues
- Ensuring competence
- Having a hobby
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Transcript
Introduction to Podcast and Host
00:00:05
Speaker
Made on Zencastr. Because Zencastr is the all-in-one podcasting platform that really does make making podcasts so easy. Please use the link in the description to visit zencastr.com. It applies an automatic discount on the subscription.
Meet Jesper McKindy: Management Consultant and Ultra Marathon Runner
00:00:22
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Rest and Recreation, the work-life balance podcast from Abysida. I'm your host, Michael Millward. the Managing Director of Abucido.
00:00:35
Speaker
Today i am talking to Jesper McKindy and we are going to be discussing how you can reclaim more time and add value to your personal time. As with every episode of Rest and Recreation, we will not be telling you what to think, but we are hoping to make you think.
00:00:54
Speaker
Jesper is a management consultant based in Santa Clarita, Southern California. He focuses on building resilient, high-performing teams and is also an ultra marathon runner.
00:01:09
Speaker
I have been to Southern California. If I get the chance to visit again, i will make my travel arrangements at the Ultimate Travel Club because that is where I can access trade prices on flights, hotels, holidays and all sorts of other travel related purchases.
00:01:25
Speaker
You can as well by becoming a member of the Ultimate Travel Club. You'll find a link with a built-in discount on membership fees in the description. Now that I have paid some bills, it is time to make an episode of Rest and Recreation that will be well worth listening to, liking, downloading and subscribing to, and also one that you want to tell your friends, family and work colleagues about.
Building a Family-like Company Culture
00:01:50
Speaker
Hello Jesper! Michael, thank you for having me. I'm excited for our conversation today. I think we're going to have a good time. Tell me about your company and the consulting that you do, because your company is called Family Lead Management Consulting.
00:02:05
Speaker
What does Family Management Consulting do and where did you get the name? Absolutely. So I'll start with the name Family Lead, and it is a play on the word family.
00:02:15
Speaker
Companies and businesses don't necessarily have to treat their employees like family. However, the sense of community, the sense of belonging, the sense of togetherness is something that leaders should strive to promote when they're building their teams.
00:02:33
Speaker
That way, when everyone's on the same page, it's easier for everyone to accomplish things together. And for family family management consulting, you know how entrepreneurs tend to fight more fires when they bring in more employees and team members?
00:02:51
Speaker
Well, what I do is provide that people and leadership support so that entrepreneurs can build a dream team that helps their business scale faster.
00:03:03
Speaker
Yes, the dream team is the, yeah, it's as an entrepreneur, building a dream team sounds expensive and more difficult than it is to say one of those things that runs trips off the tongue, so to speak, but um is more difficult to actually do than, than we say, I suppose.
00:03:24
Speaker
So the approach that you have is that an organization is like a family and the good sides of a family are what can help turn that organization into a dream team and highly productive with highly engaged employees.
00:03:40
Speaker
Correct. It's that sense of belonging and that sense of community. Right. Anyone, I think, you have to say this, when you say that and an organization is like a family, there is that other side to families. We find it easier to have an argument to fall out with members of our family than anyone else.
00:04:00
Speaker
sort Every family party has some form of argument to it. If it doesn't, it's not really ah not really a party. But the thing is that when you have that sense of belonging to a group,
00:04:11
Speaker
And I mention this because it's often one of the criticisms that I hear when people say, oh, it's, ah it's we're like a family here. People say, yeah, my family's at each other's throats half the time, ah
Importance of Process in Business Growth
00:04:21
Speaker
those sorts of things. So people think about those negative aspects of it, but even in those negative aspects, because you've built that sense of belonging, of being a part of something bigger, you end up with a stronger organization and the arguments, the debates, the disagreements,
00:04:39
Speaker
ah can be more open and honest, can't they? That's correct. It's a matter of the leader promoting those positive values to bring everyone together. One of the other things that you talk about and the way in which you do things is about creating this idea of scaling a business, scaling the work that you do, increasing the work that you do, but also at the same time reclaiming personal time.
00:05:05
Speaker
So there's a slight um conflict there. It's like, I'm going to be doing more work, but I'm also going to have more free time. And so how does that work?
00:05:16
Speaker
Absolutely. When it comes to growing a business, yes, on the one hand, it can seem like there's more work, but it's really a sense of adding in more structure, adding in more boundaries, adding in a process.
00:05:32
Speaker
to make it easier to understand what needs to be done. So as we're growing our business, we know what step one looks like. We know what step two looks like. We know what step three looks like instead of doing guesswork.
00:05:44
Speaker
Because if we grow and we're guessing what the next step is, we could get lost and end up actually putting more work on our plate. But on the other hand, when we have a defined process,
00:05:57
Speaker
it's easier ah to get more done at a more predictable pace, especially when we have other people by our side. Because since everyone's on the same page, it's easier to understand what to do next.
00:06:11
Speaker
Very much so. All sorts of phrases there that I completely agree with. Everyone being on the same side and having a structured approach to the work that you do.
00:06:22
Speaker
When you design the inefficiencies out of doing your job, it doesn't matter whether you are the boss at the top of the tree or whether you are the most junior person inside an organization, the most effective way, the most efficient way, of doing a job is always going to mean that you get it done quicker and to the required standard. That's right.
00:06:43
Speaker
Also, you make fewer mistakes because you're following a process. And so i totally get the logic that if you have a system, a process, you document it, you learn it, regardless of what aspect of your work you are doing,
00:07:00
Speaker
you can get it done more efficiently, more effectively, you're not having to do things a second time to correct mistakes, you are invariably going to end up with more free time.
00:07:12
Speaker
That's correct. There are businesses and organizations that don't have standard operating procedures. And when it comes to training, there may be some guesswork. In the end, that employee who was trained, they might end up pivoting to some different task along the journey, and that could lead to more confusion.
00:07:30
Speaker
On the other hand, when the process is defined and there is structure, it's easier for everyone to understand how would the entire project or process is going.
00:07:41
Speaker
Yes. It doesn't matter whether you're the manager of the organization, manager of department or someone working in ah in a job, the more time you spend planning the most effective way to do that job, the more efficient you're going to be and the easier it will be to get that job done right first
Defining Values and Engagement
00:08:01
Speaker
time.
00:08:01
Speaker
That's right. So let's imagine for a moment that someone is working in ah in an office, be anywhere, but let's talk about an office to begin with.
00:08:12
Speaker
What would be your advice to that person to help them pull together the systems or documenting the systems, working out the most effective way to do things? And then I suppose that's the getting the agreement of your superiors to do it in that way.
00:08:29
Speaker
thats How do you see these sorts of things implemented in in your clients? So when it comes to this person working in the office, I would encourage this employee or team member to really keep track and document ah the various steps that it took to complete a project and to see what works and what doesn't work, to provide that list of progress and any milestones and any deadlines. And then once this employee meets with the supervisors, this employee has a track record of
00:09:04
Speaker
what's already working and can really build upon that and get more buy-in because they can, they are in a better position to show their supervisors or their superiors, ah the process that has worked well for them as they were documenting the process.
00:09:22
Speaker
Yeah. What you're talking about is building the evidence, which demonstrates that they can be more effective if they work in this particular way. Yes. Yeah, which is you can't argue with the data.
00:09:35
Speaker
That's correct. Yeah. The data won't lie. Numbers don't lie. Yeah, because it is simply how do we do this most effectively? And then how do we make other people work along same similar sorts of lines as well?
00:09:51
Speaker
So this is your the entire philosophy, really, of your consulting business, isn't it? It has a lot to do with really defining the process. And another part to that is discovering the purpose, as Simon Sinek would share, knowing the why, start with why.
00:10:08
Speaker
And then when we really drive the vision and values of what the business stands for, that really does increase the engagement and motivation of those who work for that business. I totally get what you mean, i think, because when you're talking about values and then I'm comparing that with a family, people might say, well, our values are based around our religion, which is perfectly valid.
00:10:35
Speaker
Or I was having a conversation earlier on today, like what are British values? So these are British values. These are American values. The idea of fairness, the idea of listening to people, being supportive of people in times of crisis, all those sorts of things. What you're saying is that if you have clearly defined organizational values, those become the values of your organizational family, everyone is living in order to try and fu fulfill the aims of those values.
00:11:05
Speaker
And then that becomes part of how people work rather than just something that they've got on a poster somewhere in the building. That's correct. That sets the foundation. You're making them very live. Correct.
00:11:17
Speaker
There's also an awful lot of logic You know, talk about values, values sort of pull at the emotional side of things, the heart, heartstrings, but your solution, your approach is also very logical in terms of documenting what people work at and how, or the results that they achieve by working in different ways.
00:11:41
Speaker
That's right. What sort of examples do you have of how this approach has helped people to be more efficient, more effective, and then also um increase the the meaningful personal time that they have?
00:11:54
Speaker
Absolutely. There's an example. i was coaching a leader. We were talking about just the different parts and aspects of her ah work. And what I do is I'll ask deeper questions. I'll ask clarifying questions. What I'll do is I'll ask reflective questions that get...
00:12:18
Speaker
the leader in this case, this leader to really think about the past, the present and the future. So in this specific case, how did the work go? How was working go? or How did the work go ah previously? How was the work going now?
00:12:33
Speaker
And what are your plans for improving in the future? So when you take all these aspects and giving time to reflect on past progress and future desires, that This leader had a better understanding of how she could improve. And as a result, she just had more clarity in the steps and actions she needed to take moving forward.
00:12:56
Speaker
So it's really a matter of taking the time to intentionally reflect on progress and how to improve moving forward. That is one of the mistakes that we all make, I think, is to we've got that done. Now what's next?
00:13:09
Speaker
Rather than thinking, well, how did it go? How did I really do? you know, they said they're happy, but are they really happy?
00:13:19
Speaker
What does happy look like?
Effective Communication and Delegation
00:13:21
Speaker
That's right. especially Especially when it comes to a leader giving self-feedback. That's very valuable because it adds to self-awareness and it gives a leader an opportunity to really ah reflect within and to see ah what areas they can improve upon.
00:13:37
Speaker
What areas do you think are the most common ones that leaders can improve on?
00:13:44
Speaker
I would say a common area is communication. i was on I had a conversation with another leader earlier this week, and he brought up the idea of assumptions.
00:13:57
Speaker
It's very easy for people to assume how things are going, especially with a project or process. but that could lead to communication breakdowns along the line.
00:14:08
Speaker
That could lead to more conflict if it wasn't handled in the first place. On the other hand, if a leader really it does take the time to ah clarify what needs to be done, share progress,
00:14:23
Speaker
lay out the different aspects of what needs to be done, getting everyone on the same page, essentially eliminating the assumptions, it really provides a sense of clarity where everyone has a better understanding of what needs to get done. Michael, I remember our conversation earlier, how you mentioned as far as communication, how in training, if a manager gets trained and provides the training ah to an employee, it might be difficult for the employee to adopt it because that employee had not gained that knowledge yet yeah as far as what the manager learned. Yes. So on when managers do take that time to really give that full perspective, that makes it easier for ah change and progress to occur. What I meaning was we spend a lot of time training managers to be managers.
00:15:22
Speaker
And some cynics might say that they don't listen. so But... of the reasons why management training does not work for many people is that they go back into ah a new department to try and improve the way in which they manage. But we have provided no training or information to the people that they will manage on how things are going to change.
00:15:44
Speaker
It's just, I'm now back. I've got to catch up on all the work that hasn't happened whilst I've been away. And I've also got to now tell you, manage you in a different way, but it's no one's explained to you what I have learned. And first of all, I have to explain it to you.
00:16:02
Speaker
And it gets gets very messy. The communication aspect within a business, it might be impossible to over communicate it within the team within the family.
00:16:15
Speaker
That's an excellent point. I mean, what what do you agree? Is it possible to over over communicate in a in an organization? I think it's important to over communicate. So it should be an objective.
00:16:26
Speaker
correct There are just so many moving pieces for an organization and business. Yeah, it would be very valuable to over-communicate anything and everything in terms of running the operations. And these things, there are formal so like management policies or strategies for doing this. The most common one is delegation. How are you going to delegate things to people? And communication is an important part of delegation. And I know... that that also forms a big part of the work that you do, getting managers to delegate effectively with confidence.
00:17:02
Speaker
That's correct. When it comes to many managers, ah two things happen. They delegate whatever they feel like delegating, or two, they don't delegate at all.
00:17:13
Speaker
I'll cover both of them. The first one with managers delegating ah whatever they want to delegate, that That comes with a risk because many employees have different strengths and weaknesses. And if we're offloading our work onto someone else that's uncomfortable with that type of task, that's only going to make things more difficult.
00:17:34
Speaker
So in that sense, it's very important for leaders to take the time to understand what their greatest strengths of their employees are. and then delegate accordingly. I think what what you've described there, I think, is managers who delegate the things that they themselves do not want to do to people who have not been trained in how to do them, whether they're interested in them or not. Have they been trained? Do they have the competence to do the things that you do not want to do? um Speak to an effective entrepreneur or an effective manager and they will delegate on the basis of this person needs this development and in order to develop they need this type of skill or this person is better at this than I am.
00:18:23
Speaker
Therefore, it's worthy of delegating them. That's right. Yeah, please carry on your point number two. Excellent. but You brought up an excellent point. And the other part is the manager who is not delegating at all. And this could happen for two reasons. One, maybe this manager just doesn't know how to delegate. Maybe they're just used to the way things are and they're humming along.
00:18:47
Speaker
And the second part is maybe the manager is really holding tightly to the way they think it should be done.
00:18:58
Speaker
They have the fear of delegating because they're worried or concerned that an employee might be not be able to do it as well as the manager perceives it to be.
00:19:09
Speaker
However, if a manager is holding on to more work, that's going to lead to overwhelm and burnout because when a manager holds on to everything, ah that just adds to their plate. It does. it results in situations where as an HR ah professional, I could wander around an office at the end of the day and see managers at their desks and all of their subordinates, the people that reported to them, their team had all gone home on time, but the manager is still there and they're there because, like you say, they you They have the approach that if you want something doing correctly, you've got to do it yourself, which is so wrong because you're doing it yourself because you haven't had the confidence to delegate it and you should.
00:19:53
Speaker
One of the benefits of success in a career when you move up the ladder is being able to help other people move up the ladder by delegating to them and that frees up your work day so you can leave on time.
00:20:07
Speaker
yeah It's amazing how many managers in business, um as you've put on your website, is that they they don't enjoy the benefits of their success.
Achieving Work-Life Balance
00:20:20
Speaker
They're too busy working to enjoy the benefits of their success. Yes, ah that's it becomes concerning when managers and leaders are growing, but it's put weighing them down.
00:20:34
Speaker
On the other hand, when they're sharing ah the progress, when they're sharing that success with others, it gives everyone an opportunity to work together, to collaborate, to innovate, to be more creative.
00:20:48
Speaker
And then when... other employees have the opportunity to take ownership that really frees up the time and the space for leaders and managers to really focus on the bigger strategy yes you know you've got to work out what your role is as a manager where you can add the most value identify the people who would benefit from taking some of the workload off you and the more workload that you can Well, your dream team has to be the people that you can delegate everything that you do to so that you can then take on other things which will help you develop your career to the next level as well. And as you're doing that, my understanding from what you're saying is that you're developing other people to take over from you to grow the business whilst you are yourself developing to take move into another area.
00:21:40
Speaker
That's right. And it reminds me of the phrase, leaders don't create followers, leaders create more leaders. This is true. First responsibility of any manager in any organization is to find their replacement.
00:21:53
Speaker
Yes. But also, we need, I think, with my HR hat on, I suppose, we need to be finding more ways to encourage managers to have things to be interested in away from work as well.
00:22:08
Speaker
Yes. Because that's where they get to benefit and and appreciate the advantages of their hard work. It's bit like, there is a quote from Samuel Pepys, the diarist from who has said that,
00:22:24
Speaker
who has said that It is, you've noticed that men say work hard, save their money with the aim of enjoying it in retirement, but a large number of men never get to enjoy it because they don't reach retirement because they've overworked and Yeah. As one manager said to me once, the graveyards are full of indispensable people, people who thought they were indispensable. We've got to enjoy this the benefits of our hard work, the benefits of our success as we are earning them as well as saving them up for future.
Jesper's Personal Interests and Podcast Conclusion
00:22:59
Speaker
Jesper, what do you do when you're not at work? So for me, there are really three aspects that I really embrace outside of work. And when it comes to rest and recreation, there's the physical, there's the mental, and there's the spiritual.
00:23:13
Speaker
And when I say is spiritual, it's not necessarily the religious side of things. In this case, spiritual is the values and the purpose that drive us to lead more productive lives. So as far as the physical, for me, I love running. I've become a marathon runner and ultra marathon runner so i'm out in the trails getting those miles in cool all right i have uh taken up running on a very small scale i'm still it's only putting one foot in front of the other ah but there's a whole technique that you need to learn in order to do it most efficiently and uh to get the greatest distance traveled by the from the energy that you expend So it's just like being at work, isn't it? You've got to do the job as efficiently as possible. You've got to find the value from your hobby and become better at it by understanding the most efficient and effective way to do it.
00:24:10
Speaker
Yes. Also, within the physical side, i love to travel. I visited all 50 states across the United united States. So that's been an incredible journey. Wow. Yes, it is. Because um there are 50 states, but they're they' are big things as well. they take Did you fly between them or drive between them? How did you get between them?
00:24:31
Speaker
it's It's been a mix of different transportation modes over a decade. Cool. So public transportation, driving myself, tours, flying in. So it's been a variety. Nice, nice. yeah Where are you traveling to next then?
00:24:48
Speaker
I'm going to a conference in North Carolina. So I'm looking forward to that later this month. It is a nonprofit. ah It's their national meeting. i'm really looking forward to seeing what they have in store. I hope you have a great time.
00:25:01
Speaker
Thank you very much, Jesper, for giving me a different perspective on this whole issue of work-life balance and rest and recreation. i really do appreciate your time. Thank you very much. Thank you, Michael. Thank you. Thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure. Thank you.
00:25:16
Speaker
I am Michael Millward, the Managing Director of Abbasida. In this episode of Rest and Recreation, I have been having a conversation with Jesper Makuendang, who is a culture-driven leadership and ah HR strategist.
00:25:31
Speaker
You can find out more about both of us by following the links in the description. At Reston Recreation we believe in health and happiness. We can't make you happy, but one of the best ways to stay healthy is to know the risks early.
00:25:44
Speaker
That is why we recommend the health tests available from York Test, especially their annual health test. The annual health test from York Test provides an assessment of 39 different health markers, including cholesterol and diabetes, various vitamin levels and organ functions.
00:26:02
Speaker
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00:26:19
Speaker
You can access your easy to understand results and guidance to help you make effective lifestyle changes anytime by your secure personal wellness hub account. There is a link and a discount code in the description.
00:26:32
Speaker
I'm sure that you will have enjoyed listening to this episode of Rest and Recreation as much as Jesper and I have enjoyed making it. So please give it a like and download it so you can listen anytime, anywhere.
00:26:44
Speaker
To make sure you don't miss out on future episodes, please subscribe. And please also share the link with your friends, your family and your work colleagues. Remember, the aim of all the podcasts produced by Abbasida is not to tell you what to think, but we do hope to have made you think.
00:27:02
Speaker
Until the next episode of Rest and Recreation, thank you for listening and goodbye.