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🔮 EPISODE 158: SEANCES ARE TERRIFYING 🔮
269 Plays1 day ago
Candles are lit. Boundaries are ignored. Consent is… actively debated with the afterlife.
This week, a séance goes horribly, flirtatiously wrong as we explore horror in real life:
👻 The history of séance grifters
🎩 Harry Houdini’s war on Spiritualism
🏛️ Mary Todd Lincoln’s White House séances and grief as survival
🦶 The Fox Sisters and the birth of modern spiritual scams
...and horror in the Movies:
🎥 THIRTEEN GHOSTS (1960) – gimmicks, goggles, and goofy chills
🎥 THE QUIET ONES (2014) – messy experiments and unrealized potential
And of course, we ask the only question that matters: Who’s Coming to the Séance?
Listen wherever you get podcasts.
💀 Leave a review. Tell a friend.
🛍️ Support us at frigay13.com/support
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Transcript
Introduction and Humor
00:00:00
Speaker
Fry Gay the 13th Horror Podcast is a proud independent podcast. To learn more about the show, visit frygay13.com.
00:00:12
Speaker
Okay, candles lit. We are grounded, respectful. We are not seducing the afterlife again, right? Wow, so ghosts can't even feel sexy anymore? What is this world coming to?
00:00:26
Speaker
Maddie, ask a normal seance question. Fine, fine, fine. Is there anyone here who died young, attractive, dramatic, and emotionally available? I hate this already.
00:00:37
Speaker
The table moved. That's bad. Or the spirit is interested. We're not interpreting movement as consent again. just saying, if you're a sexy spirit stuck between worlds and you want to vibe with a gay guy with a candle budget, speak now.
00:00:52
Speaker
The candle went out. So you're saying there's a chance. Tell it to leave. Spirit, are you single or eternally bound to the spiritual plane? We have to end it. End it now.
00:01:05
Speaker
Okay, okay. Thank you for coming, haunting, and judging our seance setup. Please do not attach yourself to either of us, at least not Andrew, and don't you dare watch me shower. I'm never doing a seance with you ever again.
Episode Theme: Terrifying Seances
00:01:16
Speaker
That's what you said after the psychic, the astrologer, and that ghost tour guide. It's episode 158. Seances are terrifying. I am the writing on the wall, the whisper in the classroom.
00:01:33
Speaker
I'm Marjorie Greene, and I approve this message to save America, stop socialism, and stop China. Stay the time we ought to be from life to death to rise.
00:01:45
Speaker
Horror in real life. Doubters, the doomsters, the gloomsters, they are going to get it wrong. Horror in the movies. Where are you going to
00:01:59
Speaker
Where are you gonna hide? Nowhere. Because there's no one like you left. What do we want? Justice! When do we want it? Now!
00:02:10
Speaker
Let's go! What are you waiting for, huh? What you waiting for? I want you to know that the movement we started is only just beginning. Sometimes.
00:02:25
Speaker
But we begin with the latest on an IT exclusive, the ACI seance scandal. The top prison boss can finally speak about the investigation that led three ACI employees to call it quits. It's a strange story.
00:02:37
Speaker
We broke it. A seance at the state prison in a top manager's office. And it all happened on state time, and months later, three employees are gone. One was arrested by state police, and for the first time, the director of the Department of Corrections is speaking out. A.T. Wall sat down exclusively with NBC10 IT reporter Parker Gavigan.
00:02:56
Speaker
Welcome to episode 158 of Frygay 13th Horror Podcast. My name is Andrew. Ow! My name's Maddie, yeah! Woo!
00:03:10
Speaker
And if this is your first time joining us on this wonderful podcast, you have 157 episodes to catch up on. You fucking nerd. Go listen to them all. But also, this is the podcast where we talk all about horror, horror in real life and horror in the movies. And today we are talking all about...
00:03:25
Speaker
Seances, an interesting topic to
Skepticism in Seances and Media Influence
00:03:29
Speaker
think about. We have some interesting movies. We have 13 Ghosts from 1960 and ah The Quiet Ones, which I think was a movie that most people may have not even had on their radar. So hopefully we can talk about that.
00:03:45
Speaker
And just like a little like like ah a preview to that. Like, Andrew, the budget for the Quiet Ones, and I did double check this, the budget was $200,000. That's not right.
00:03:57
Speaker
i i fucking checked it on like three different places. There's it the budget had to be more of than that. I'm sorry. I don't understand. It's very strange because they do. If if that is true, they do an awful lot in the movie for it. You know, I was I was telling Andrew before we started. um but Well, yeah actually, I'm going to save that.
00:04:15
Speaker
Yes. Yeah, that that's enough. Andrew, you know who I like to have a seance with? Who? Well, ah it would be great. Okay. It could be me and you around the table. Michael, of course, a couple of other people that would that wouldn't be dickheads.
00:04:28
Speaker
And then I like to call on the ghosts of, oh, I don't know, Franklin Delano Roosevelt. um Maybe George Washington. um Fuck, I'll even take fucking Teddy Roosevelt, for God's sake. I'll even take fucking James Buchanan at this point. Abraham Lincoln, for sure. um Could we call on the spirits of of old presidents? can could Could we do that, do you think? Would that help things? At this point, I don't know. um does Somebody, a Spirit World, help. please Someone intervene, please. We're in...
00:05:03
Speaker
I don't know. i mean, we don't know know what else to do anymore. so Somebody, somebody fucking help. That's it. Okay. Somebody from the past 250 years of American culture, please help.
00:05:14
Speaker
abraham We're sending the Morse code. Abraham Lincoln, we call on thee. Please come back. Listen, Andrew, what what's, before we even go into any of the stuff that we've prepared for it,
00:05:25
Speaker
i I actually was spending some time this morning um thinking about, like well, how do you really feel about seances, Matthew, Zeredich, whatever your name is? How do you feel about it? How do you feel about them?
00:05:39
Speaker
um For the most part, I think it's kind of a grift, if I'm being honest. I think it's taking advantage of people's emotions and of ah people's grief for the most part. um But I also ah find it... ah that there's like a certain curiosity there of like, well, what if I took all of my cynicism out of it and tried to really harness some energy? Could it could it could it evoke something? Or is there something that could be um harnessed from that energy? I don't know. i want to. It's it's it's that age old thing of I want to believe, but i but I've yet to be proven.
00:06:24
Speaker
You know what i mean? Yeah. No, I get it. i do. What about you? Yeah, I don't feel too far off. um You know, I I just sort of feel like I.
00:06:36
Speaker
You know, it's it's it's complex because like I feel like I do kind of believe in some things and I am open to other things, but there's something about the seance in particular. That's very performative. Yeah, that just feels like a show.
00:06:50
Speaker
And like, you know, for for, I was just, I was, ah before this episode, before we started ah recording the episode, pardon me, I was watching, re-watching, I've watched it many times, Surviving Death on Netflix. It's a little series about like near-death experiences and psychics. and Yeah, you've talked about it before. And it's, if you've never watched it before, it's very, very good based off a book by Leslie Kane. Leslie Kane is also in the show. Leslie Kane is is ah is ah ah a pretty prolific journalist. So she approaches it from a journalistic perspective. Anyways, I was watching the the one on on like mediumship and in specific, ah this one woman who who does seances. And
00:07:33
Speaker
you know they They do a good job of recording these seances and she's very transparent and open. It's all right there for you to see. And they are just so fake. I can't unsee how fake they are.
00:07:47
Speaker
and yeah and And at the end of each reading, it's always, the the end of each seance, however however you want to think about it, it's always like, well, I just want you to know that they are around you and they love you and blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like,
00:07:59
Speaker
yeah i okay like that just seems so it just seems so like silly i think the right word is performative you know like like you were saying well like the then but then there's like the other end of the spectrum of uh you know keep in mind this woman turned out to be a ah right oh crazy person yeah but but you know what was her name again what was her name I don't even remember anymore. can't remember. stopped following around everything. But like we had an experience at a con where we walked. Which one was it that was a Horror Hound?
00:08:30
Speaker
Yeah, Indianapolis, ah where we went into a room where there was like all these like ah Bigfoot people. And like it was like a whole thing. And we went to a medium and, you know, she legit...
00:08:46
Speaker
like had a reading for Maddie right there on the spot and it was pretty accurate. And then we had her on the show and she did something for me that was like very healing. So like, I don't know, there's something good about it. And and listen, keep in mind, we gave her,
00:09:01
Speaker
no money well yeah and like just just just to add on to that experience that you described like i mean we didn't even if you remember we didn't even actually like go to her right we just we just kind of like wandered by her boot because like with the room that we were in as as andrew was saying it was it was called the cryptid room so it it was honestly it was fucking weird it was mostly like bigfoot people it had that guy from the space movie whitley striver Yeah. Yeah. So, mean, so it was mostly Bigfoot stuff, except for there was the UFO table, which was the Whitley Stryber, which was pretty fucking cool, to be honest. And then it was this one psychic woman, once again, forget her name. And we just walked by her. And if you remember, she stopped us.
00:09:44
Speaker
And like we, I mean, that day we weren't even wearing like Freigate t-shirts, I don't think. So like we were just there And she stopped us and we like started saying hi because we were we were like saying hi to everybody. it was just kind of a fun room. And she just launched into this little reading about how she very clearly knew something about my aunt Annette.
00:10:05
Speaker
Like very, very clearly. And it I was doubled. Like I couldn't believe how how clear that was. So like, yeah, as you're saying, there's that. But then there's also like just the stuff that you can tell is kind of bullshit.
00:10:17
Speaker
Well, and that's like, not to like bring it back to like modern um politics or anything, but it's like, it's the performative nature of like Erica Kirk right now. Like how she goes literally on everything and is like grief mourning.
00:10:31
Speaker
But then you see... If your grief looked like a July 4th firework show, that is Erica Kirk. Seriously. And but then like and then there's the leaked stuff this week where, you know, she was like gleeful about how much money they made off of it. And I'm just like, God, like, come on. Like, is no one is no one for real anymore? Like, it's no one like just trying to like be for real. Or is it all just a performance? And I guess the seances like that. Yeah. Yeah. I think that everything is sort of just big performance
Belief Systems and Social Media
00:11:02
Speaker
now. I mean, we were just talking at work this week about this thing called Maltboard. Have you heard about this? No, don't know. So Maltboard is a new social media network for AI robots.
00:11:17
Speaker
no no No. Not joking, Andrew. it's just It's where literally robots go there and they make their own fucking posts. They talk to each other. They like make up their own link. I'm not joking. This is real. like They do their own shit. Oh God. And like a human isn't even able to get an account on there. The the guy, whoever built it, they they made it so that like the way that you get past the captcha is that you have to click the button 10,000 times in one second. So the only thing that could do that would be an AI robot.
00:11:46
Speaker
And so like we're not even allowed on there. This is the world now. Everything is fake. um But everything was fake before. You know, as you were saying, like people have been looking to to to pounce on people's grief for so long. And I think that's what this is. You know, like at the end of the day, it's it's sort of like how a zombie movie isn't really about zombies. The zombie movies are always about how humans behave when zombies are around. And like it's similar in the sense that like seances aren't for me. They're not really about the spirits. They're about how humans that are that are clearly dealing with grief of some sort, how they act when they perceive that spirits are around. Right. And, you know, one of the things that that that was mentioned in the the little documentary series that I was just watching and in the episode I was watching. And I hadn't caught it before, but it's like this, and there's no like study that I can point to, but the guy who was speaking, who who studies seances, was like, people who are having the seance done, they usually don't even understand how much they're talking. And if you were to look at the talk ratio between like the the the medium or the seance leader, however you want to think of them, and the people attending the seance, it's like 90 to 10, the people attending the seance. And so like it if if you dangle ah if you dangle a carrot of of relieving grief in front of somebody, I think that all of us would be really amazed just how much we're willing to make that carrot true no matter what.
00:13:17
Speaker
and and And how much we're willing to give the person who claims to have the power to make that true, how much we're willing to give them, in other words, how much we're willing to fill in the blanks, bolster this, say this, correct that, how much of that we give them in order to make that carrot a real carrot.
00:13:34
Speaker
Yeah, it's very and very, very, very true. um Do you want to learn a little bit about how this all kind of started in the in the US? Will it bring Abraham Lincoln back to us in spirit form? Is that going to happen?
00:13:48
Speaker
No, but hopefully we'll be attending in a little soon. Jesus. Oh, fair. Yeah. Yeah. hope Cross your fucking fingers. Jesus. Spirits, can you tell us this? Spirits, please.
00:13:58
Speaker
um So seance grifters kind of are like started exploding in the mid 19th century and there was death everywhere. there but By the way, Andrew, that's the 1800s for MAGA people because I know that you don't know how to count things. So just so that you know. and I don't think they're listening. But just in case though, you know what I mean? um where death was everywhere. There was war, there was disease. Childbirth was not successful all the time. And science hadn't really explained much. um It created the perfect environment for people who claim they could talk to the dead only for a fee.
00:14:33
Speaker
Of course. Like what this all, like the people that started this kind of like grifting of people's grief were the Fox sisters. Do you know anything about the Fox sisters? I only know that they're connected to Mary Todd Lincoln, right?
00:14:47
Speaker
A little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. um So the Fox sisters, Margaret, ah like Maggie was her nickname. Kate and later Leah Fox are widely credited with igniting the spiritualist movement in the United States in 1848 in the small town of Hydesville, New York. Margaret and Kate claimed they could communicate with the spirit of a murdered peddler through mysterious knocking sounds later called spirit raps. Yeah.
00:15:13
Speaker
They developed a call and response system, one knock for yes, two for no. We'll talk about that later in one of our movies. Oh, boy. ah Which felt astonishingly modern and interactive for the time. Crowds came, witnesses tested the knocks, and the girls became sensations.
00:15:31
Speaker
The older sister, Leah Fox, quickly stepped in as their manager. Booking public demonstrations across the country. Seances became theatrical events, dark rooms, hushed voices, collective fear, and the Fox sisters became celebrity mediums performing for packed audiences.
00:15:49
Speaker
This is crazy because we still have this. We still have the Long Island medium. We still have, who's that little twink on Netflix? Tyler Henry. Tyler Henry, we still have this. It's crazy. um Spiritualism spread fast, especially among women who were barred from most religious authority, the grieving civil war deaths were mounting, and social reforms of abolitionists and progressives. Talking to the Dead was framed as radical, democratic, and empowering.
00:16:19
Speaker
Interesting. Interesting. Um, in 1888, Margaret Fox, Maggie publicly confessed to the spirit wraps were produced by cracking joints in her toes and feet, even demonstrating it on stage.
00:16:34
Speaker
Okay. Can we just stop there for a moment? Yeah. Okay. I can crack my knuckles. I think, I think you can too, right? Oh yeah. yeah Yeah. Do it all the time. But I can also like, if I like do my, my toes correctly, i can kind of like crack them too. Yeah.
00:16:48
Speaker
Guess what? They don't sound like fucking knocks on a fucking wall, man. Like, how hard was she cracking her fucking, like, feet, dude? Jesus. Well, it's funny because I don't know if if you saw any of this controversy. It it happened after we visited the Conjuring House. we We visited the Conjuring House in 2025. In Connecticut.
Historical Context of Seances
00:17:11
Speaker
It was 2023, Andrew, I think. Okay. I my i i don't remember anything. don't remember anything after the ah pandemic. So there's my mind. But um after we visited there, a new person, i think someone from like associated with the Travel Channel bought The Conjuring House. It was the guy that we hate.
00:17:32
Speaker
No. Wasn't it him? No, no, no, no, no. It was not the Las Vegas guy. Keep keep talking. to keep I'm going to look it up. Keep talking. so And they hired these two people. And there was this series of YouTube people that went to the Conjuring House. Matt Reif bought it. Matt Reif. the the the the the comedian you do you know Matt Reif you seen him online before yeah yeah Matt Reif he's like kind of attractive but not really and he's handsome Squidward and he it seems like he's like maybe a MAGA person but we don't know did you do you know what I mean like I can't tell with him I don't know and keep going go ahead
00:18:04
Speaker
um They hired these two people, i believe a husband and wife team, ah either that or a boyfriend and girlfriend team, and they did the this exact thing where they would crack their um what like joints. And it and it it fooled everybody. There were YouTube accounts that were so freaking out about this and everything. And after reading this about the Fox sisters, I was like, holy shit, this is like, this isn't new. Like, like...
00:18:33
Speaker
um Also, like just to be clear, you don't have to fake anything at that house. like Just go there and you'll see how fucking terrible it feels. like we We all agree leaving there, we never want to go back there again. It's awful.
00:18:46
Speaker
And that's the thing is like when they hired these two you know ah husband and- wife, boyfriend, girlfriend team to like do like um talk to your relatives here seances. I was like, that's not what this house is for. like is you Why would you go to the conjuring house to talk to your fucking relatives? Like that makes absolutely no sense. It's more, i as it listen, and I'm only going off of my experience there, but I only felt negative energy there. So was it was a gross. Like it it was cool to visit, but it felt like we were in the presence of something very, very bad.
00:19:18
Speaker
Yeah. And so I don't I don't even if even if there was an energy reaching out to me there to talk to me, I wouldn't want to talk back. Girl, I agree. um So after they kind of confessed, the Fox sisters, they confessed that this was all fake. So what was the reaction to this?
00:19:35
Speaker
Some people felt betrayed, but other people dismissed the confession as coerced. Wow. What does this remind you of, Andrew? And then Margaret later recanted, even muddying the waters even more.
00:19:49
Speaker
so So this is classic human of just like, we want to believe in something so much that we apologize endlessly for anything that they do.
00:20:02
Speaker
Yeah, it's like, i' I'm sorry to bring it back to it yet again, everybody. But it's the point. this is This is exactly what we are experiencing right now with Marjorie Taylor fucking Green, who features, by the way, in the um the intro track for every episode of us.
00:20:18
Speaker
It is literally her, like two weeks ago, coming out and telling everybody MAGA was a lie. Like, and they still believe in it. You're going to believe in whatever you want to believe. You will force yourself to believe it because in order for you to change your mind, you would have to admit that you're wrong.
00:20:38
Speaker
hu About everything. About everything. And Americans specifically are extremely fucking awful about that. No matter if you're from 18 fucking 48 or you're 2020 fucking six.
00:20:53
Speaker
It's like impossible for an American to say, oh, you know what? I was wrong. I'll change my mind. And honestly, in in my opinion, if you partied with Epstein, you are a crook. All you are all of them. All of them.
00:21:07
Speaker
You have fucking psychos. And you should be taken to trial just like everybody else. And if you are absolved and didn't commit a crime, then fine. But you need to go. Sorry. Yeah.
00:21:18
Speaker
yeah um So just to bring it back to close out the Fox sisters. Bring us the ghost of Jeffrey Epstein. Yeah. Oh, God, please. Can we? he He would lie anyway. Yeah, exactly. Right.
00:21:31
Speaker
um Spiritualism obviously survived just fine. We're talking about it right now. It's still well alive in this day and age, um especially with the avenue of like television and radio and everything.
00:21:43
Speaker
Yeah. ah I say television and radio. You finally say the more modern thing. Right. I'm old. um So both Margaret and Kate struggled with poverty, alcoholism and exploitation, especially later in life. What may have started as a childhood prank or desperate performance became a trap.
00:22:02
Speaker
They couldn't escape. They weren't just con artists. They were products of belief, grief, fame and pressure. That's the Fox sisters. Makes sense. um So that brings us to Mary Todd Lincoln, who you brought up earlier.
00:22:17
Speaker
um i i think that we've talked a little bit about Mary Todd Lincoln before. I can't remember what episode, but I just when I started reading about her, I was like, I think we've talked about this before. So I don't I don't want to spend too much time on it. But what a very, very strange woman.
00:22:31
Speaker
Well, i and I haven't seen O'Mary yet. I'm going to go see it in London. Bridget and I are going to go. now touring. So I'm hoping that I'll get to check it out. yeah i don't know if they touch on like the seance of it all. I know it's like more of a comedy show. so i won't I won't be surprised. I mean, Mary Todd Lincoln was ah just a bit of a crazy lady. And she had some crazy shit going on. She did.
00:22:56
Speaker
Yeah. So Mary Todd Lincoln, the wife of Abraham Lincoln, who was probably a little gay. Abraham Lincoln, come back to Come back to us, please, Abraham Lincoln, please. First Lady during the Civil War became deeply interested in spiritualism after suffering profound personal loss, most notably the death of her son, Willie Lincoln, 1862, who died just 11 years
00:23:18
Speaker
Which, by the way, if you've never read the book Lincoln and the Bardo, it's all about that. Abraham Lincoln and the Death of His Son, Willie, by George Saunders. Incredible sort of science fiction-y writer. It's it in ah one of the best books I've ever read in my life. So good.
00:23:32
Speaker
Based on real facts or? but it's based It's based on the death of Willie, but it's, um ah the Bardo is a Buddhist concept of like the afterlife. And it's sort of like a liminal period in between like life and death. And so it's all about the death of Willie and this one night that Abraham Lincoln spends in the Bardo with the ghost of his son. And it's,
00:23:55
Speaker
It's wild and weird. George Saunders is such a weird author and he's fucking fantastic if you've never read him. Horror horror people should love George Saunders. um and ah And it's also like every George Saunders book incredibly, strangely touching. Like like like like like make you cry touching. It's so good. It's a wonderful book.
00:24:14
Speaker
Cool. um sounds Sounds really interesting, actually. So at the time, spiritualism, as we talked about earlier, was incredibly popular, especially among women grieving husbands and children lost to war. Mary Todd Lincoln believed that spirits could communicate with the living, and she sought comfort in that belief.
00:24:33
Speaker
She supported or she reportedly held seances at the White House, sometimes in the Red Room, inviting mediums to attempt to contact Willie's spirit. According to multiple accounts, mediums claimed Willie appeared, played with toys or rested at the foot of Mary's bed.
00:24:50
Speaker
God. Abraham Lincoln was skeptical, but occasionally observed the seances, sometimes with a dry sense of humor about it. i'll Leave it to the man to make fun of the woman. Jesus Christ. um The sessions were kept relatively private, though rumors spread quickly.
00:25:07
Speaker
There's no hard evidence that Mary successfully contacted her son, but the emotional truth mattered more than proof. For her, seances weren't entertainment. They were grief management in an era with no therapy and no antidepressants, and a nation drowning in death. Oh God, I didn't even think about it from that angle.
00:25:26
Speaker
um After Abraham Lincoln's assassination in 1865, Mary's spiritual beliefs intensified and her mental health deteriorated it further, eventually contributing to her institutionalization later.
00:25:40
Speaker
later Yeah, you can't even like, guess this was like a form of therapy for people. So I can't even like, I don't know. do we get to that? How do we,
00:25:52
Speaker
how do we get to that how do we is it good or is it bad or is it somewhere in between? What do you think? I don't think it's a good or bad. i think, um I mean, it it and it depends on like like what what perspective you're looking from, right? like You know, if you're looking from from the perspective of the the grifting medium, then, you know, for them, they're not going to see it as good or bad. They're going to see it as money because they're going to see it as amoral. You know, if you look at it from my my perspective now, you know, yeah i can look at it in a number of ways. I look at it as, ah you know, looking at a woman who we know had had severe mental health issues. Right. um And we look at it from a mother who was grieving and a father who was deeply grieving And on top of it, you know, at the ah a man and and a woman shared, shared, if if it really was shared, grief of a nation of hundreds of thousands of people dying.
00:26:54
Speaker
Like, you know, i'm I'm glad that, you know, wherever you took this from, it it it talks about that. I mean, the Civil War. Yeah, I can't remember the exact number, but hundreds of thousands of people died in in what was then not a very big country. Think about it. You know, wasn't the entire country that we know of now. So ah death was really everywhere. how How do you handle that? How do you deal with it? i I don't know. I guess there's there's no harm, no foul for the people that are looking for an answer. You know, people go to church looking for an answer. People go to church talking to a dead man, right? If if they go to a Christian church, that's what they do. They go and they pray to a dead God. That's what makes that that that's what makes Christianity a little bit different than other religions is that, you know, the the main God of it, Jesus, is a human that died. It's a little bit different from other gods. Right.
00:27:44
Speaker
So isn't it kind of the same thing at the end of the day? I mean, I don't know. we're We're all just kind of looking for a flicker in the the vast, the vastness of darkness wherever we can.
00:27:58
Speaker
And if one flicker that we, for whatever reason, our eyes just happens to see as brighter than the other, maybe we're drawn to that one. I don't, I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. It's just interesting. Like,
00:28:10
Speaker
I guess um maybe people that aren't as religious turn to this kind of thing for grief support or you know therapy for grief support. or I guess wherever you need to get it from is where you need to get it from. It's it's taking advantage of people is where I get like oh yeah fucked up. and that's and that's an And that's not just in seances and mediums. That's in church. That's in therapy. That's in anything. Yeah.
00:28:38
Speaker
but if you the the the the The opportunity is there for a shyster to always be a shyster. It's always going to there. Yeah, it's crazy. Well, look at the government. Look at the government. I mean, that's just it. I mean, the belief in the way that humans believe is an incredibly interesting thing. What do you believe in? Why do you believe in it? How does it hook on to you?
00:28:59
Speaker
Why do you keep believing it is really the question that matters probably the most. Is what what about the belief that you have is is sustaining now that it's sustainable, but how does it sustain you? In what way does it do that? Because that's the thing about religious belief or or or belief in any of this. Right. Because it's all yeah all kind of religious belief is that unless it enhances your life in some way, you're not going to keep believing it.
00:29:24
Speaker
Yeah. And I think like to challenge some of this is like as soon as you're starting to make excuses for anything, excuses. Wait, wait, wait. Say that again. Say that again. As soon as you start making excuses for anything in any of this is that's when you should start questioning.
00:29:41
Speaker
Yeah, fair. So so and you mean like ah if if you see something that might even be slightly off, you make an excuse for why it's not off. Correct. Yeah. So like, ah let's say like, I don't know, your medium gets something not quite right.
00:29:55
Speaker
You should be like, oh, I should think about that. Or let's say your pastor says something that you're like, ooh, that's not quite what I believe. You should start thinking about that. Or sure like, let's say your government says...
00:30:08
Speaker
something that you don't think is right, you should start thinking about that. Don't just make excuses for everything because excuses is what is going to get you deeper and deeper into cult-like situation in any of those situations. Well, I mean, I i just think it's important.
00:30:23
Speaker
I think it's important no matter what you believe. If you're if you're an atheist, if you're agnostic, if you are if you are a believer in any faith, no matter what it is, if you if you believe in spirits, if you believe in blah, blah, blah, whatever,
00:30:37
Speaker
I think that you need to to deeply explore why it is you believe that thing. And, you know, <unk> I've talked about it more than a few times on the show. like i I call myself a Christian, though I don't really fall into the dogma of a lot of you know mainline types of things. But even still, like even with what I believe, which is definitely out of the box compared to other people that would call themselves this. Like, ah I still have to tell, still to ask myself those questions. Why do you really believe this? What is it about it that you actually believe in? And why, once again, why have you stayed a believer? And I have my own thoughts about that.
00:31:12
Speaker
um You know, if you are an atheist, I think that's in itself a bit of a form of belief. i think yeah I don't think it's a bad idea to say, okay, well, why am I an atheist? If anything, it just strengthens your own point of view, you know? Yeah, I mean, I think that just like everybody's going to tell you not to question things because question you should.
00:31:32
Speaker
And you should. Like, it it's it you should never just go along with the group. There should always be thought and understanding and... in anything. And this just like is part of it. Yeah, I think that people are are afraid to be the clanging cymbal.
00:31:48
Speaker
Yeah, I get it. And I think that... I've been that cymbal my whole life. It's not fun. Well, yeah. and and i But but i I think now, you know, it's, you know, once again, not to bring it back, But here we are living in in ah ah an era of of of human history where people were afraid to be the clinging symbols. And now look where we are. are yeah We have the, the you know quote unquote, the most powerful country in the world um on the brink of democratic collapse, truly on the brink. We have wars being fought in multiple zones around the world. Very big, very awful wars. We have poverty reigning. We've got the right wing on the rise in Europe. We've got this. We've got this. We've got this.
00:32:30
Speaker
You know, what if people had stood up more before? you know, what if it what if they thought maybe it's okay for us to be the clinging symbol right now? Maybe it's okay for us to ask why we believe our institutions will save us. Maybe it's maybe it's a good idea for us to ask, hmm, should we keep following these people that we think really have our best interest at heart, even though they really haven't benefited me in any way in decades?
00:32:57
Speaker
I mean, these are questions that we should be asking. and You know, like you said, if you go to church, you should be asking the same questions there, for God's sake.
Harry Houdini's Battle Against Spiritualism
00:33:04
Speaker
So, you know, it but it is interesting in today's world that like, i I think that people are more apt to go on to TikTok or whatever and see, I don't know if there is like seance TikTok. There probably is. Andrew, I'm not on TikTok. But if there is, it wouldn't surprise me if, if you know, the same people who call themselves atheists go to seance TikTok and watch a seance and think it's true.
00:33:25
Speaker
you know do you know what I mean? So I i think everyone, as as strong as you think you are in your belief and as stalwart as you think you might be and is studied on how you think you believe yourself, you're really not at the end of the day. I think most people are unprepared to truly defend the reason as to why they believe what they believe.
00:33:49
Speaker
Yeah, truly. Yeah. And I think that, you know, when we think about all of our social media platforms, they're called followers for a reason. And that's... God, Andrew, I've never thought of that before.
00:34:01
Speaker
I've never thought of that before. God, Andrew, social media... I think we should a social. Do we need a volume three? I was going to say, well, have we done volume two? Did we do that? Yeah, we've already done two. We did. We did, didn't we? You know what, Andrew? We're doing volume three this year. We're doing it.
00:34:19
Speaker
It's happening, everybody. It's a yearly it's a yearly ah occasion. That's it. ah You know, Andrew, look, I had a little thing in here about Houdini and trying to prove that things were wrong. oh We don't even need it. No, no, no, no. I want to hear it. You want it? Yeah, yeah. I want to hear it. Okay, yeah okay so listen. So... um I was you know watching YouTube this morning and looking at this, looking at that. I was like, you know what? Let's go from the more like pessimistic point of view, which is where we've been this whole episode so far. Yeah, yeah. um But anyways, this was a Smithsonian Magazine article by Brian Green from 2021. And it's called For Harry Houdini. Seances and spiritualism were just an illusion. This is just a synopsis that I'm going to read you. You can go back and read the entire thing. So Harry Houdini, you all know who he is for God's sake. He did spend the final years of his life crusading against spiritualism. So he's a bit like the like the proto pen and teller, if you think about it, kind of. thing Oh, okay. um And so the the popular belief that the dead can communicate with the living and the fraudulent mediums who profited from it. He hated that shit. So although his wife, Bess, held annual seances, hoping he'd send a coded message from beyond, she eventually conceded in 1936 that he did not. The tradition of Houdini's seances still persists,
00:35:34
Speaker
though the med that the magician, pardon me, himself, would likely be mortified that his legacy is often tied to spiritual contact. Once openly curious about the possibility of contacting the afterlife, Houdini grew deeply skeptical after attending seances and failing to find legitimate evidence of genuine spiritual communication.
00:35:55
Speaker
He became a vocal critic of mediums, arguing that their tricks violated both artistic integrity and the trust of grieving people who were being defrauded. In 1926, Houdini's anti-spiritualist drive culminated in dramatic congressional hearings in Washington, D.C., where he urged legislation to criminalize paid fortune telling and claims of uniting the living with the dead.
00:36:20
Speaker
The hearings revealed broader cultural tensions. Spiritual beliefs still flourished to even as science and rationalism gained ground, drawing in figures from Arthur Conan Doyle, who defended spiritualism and became estranged from Houdini, to prominent inventors intrigued by ideas of spirit communication.
00:36:39
Speaker
Houdini also participated in Scientific American's tests of mediums, and worked to expose high-profile figures like Boston medium Marjorie Crandon, publishing pamphlets to reveal their tricks and convincing the magazine to withhold prize for paranormal proof. Despite his dogged efforts, attempts to legislate against spiritualist practices failed, as lawmakers ultimately saw such beliefs as protected under free speech and religious freedoms.
00:37:09
Speaker
<unk> i I honestly didn't know that about Houdini, that he was so against this. like But it's funny it's funny coming from Houdini, though, who profited off of tricking people. so Yeah, but like I said, you know he's he's sort of like you know the Penn and Teller of the early 20th century. you know And Penn and Teller are are basically like but like ah magicians. And yeah what do they do? they They show you how they do everything. And they also show you how all these other grifters completely fake stuff. So, you know, I wonder how i well I'm sure I don't even have to wonder ah so much of their work has to have been influenced by the great Hedy Houdini.
00:37:49
Speaker
Of course. Yeah. Yeah. um Cool. Well, I think that will do it for our horror in real life. I think we Abraham Lincoln, come back. Come back to us, Abraham Lincoln. Help us.
00:38:04
Speaker
Help us, Abraham Lincoln. but But Mary, maybe you stay away. Mary, go back to bed. And we will be right back with what you've been watching, bitch.
Film and Show Reviews
00:38:19
Speaker
Let's all go the lobby. Let's all go to the lobby. Let's all go to the lobby to get ourselves a treat.
00:38:30
Speaker
And we are back with Whatcha Been Watching, bitch. Whatcha been watching, you conjuring little bitch? That's right. And listen, folks, this is the segment of the show where we talk about what we have been watching. So, Andrew, tell us the first thing that you've been watching.
00:38:47
Speaker
Yeah, this the first time in a while where I don't have any horror on my list, but um we're going to get through it. Not my first time. First one is um Mel Brooks, the 99-year-old man. This is a two-part documentary. I can't wait to see this. all about Mel Brooks. I believe it's on HBO max, whatever that's called these days. I can't keep up. Um, uh, and this is just all about Mel Brooks and like how he, uh, came up through, um he actually, I didn't know this, but he like lived in Florida for a majority of his life and then like had a first wife and kids and then moved to LA and fell in love with ah another woman and, and Bancroft. Right. Um, yep.
00:39:32
Speaker
Um, and then they had a kid and it's, it's just fascinating because the people that they interview in this show, so ah this, this documentary, sorry. Uh, so many of them are dead now. Like, yeah um, they, they interview Rob Reiner, they interview Robert's dad, um, i didn't This is a minor spoiler, but I didn't know that Mel Brooks was with um Rob Reiner's dad when he died um and how close they were.
00:39:59
Speaker
a and um God, it's just... it's Listen, a lot of Mel Brooks' comedy has not aged well. Of course. but but But this is what I'll say.
00:40:11
Speaker
Mel Brooks, even back in the day, was saying the quiet part out loud. Yeah, sure. And this is what people were actually saying. And this is the humor that people actually like clung to. So I don't know how you deal with that. You can deal with it however you want to. But like these were the movies that I grew up with. I grew up with Spaceballs. I grew up with Robin Hood, Men in Tights, like all these movies. And so getting to know a man that's lived 99 years because he actually is 99 years old and he's still making movies with fucking Spaceballs 2 on the docket. Yeah. And so like...
00:40:46
Speaker
Go ahead. good No, no, no, no. Go ahead. Go ahead. ahead um And so like you've got to give a little bit of ah a little bit of grace and a little bit of um respect to someone that's lived that long and has had such an illustrious career and has taken.
00:41:01
Speaker
um God, it's so good. It's so it's it's the best thing I've watched since the Pee Wee documentary. Oh, very nice. That's that's all i'll say. That's great to hear. ah Yeah, look, Mel Brooks is a good man. I i met Mel Brooks once. I met Anne Bancroft the same night. And he could and I was a fucking kid when I met him. I was like 18, 19 years old. Wow.
00:41:24
Speaker
I walked up to his table at dinner. I'm not joking. Fucking Nathan Lane was at that table. Matthew Broderick was at that table. Because it was the literally the world premiere of the producers in Chicago. They did the world premiere in Chicago for that musical. stage, yeah.
00:41:40
Speaker
And I was at dinner that night with my mom going to see that show. Somehow we got, we got to see, it I might've told the story before on the show, but I'll fucking tell it again. I walk up to that table cause I was such a little precocious idiot. And I walked up and I told him, I said, Mr. Brooks, I'm so proud to meet you or whatever the fuck I said. And I said, I'm a young actor. That's what I said him. My God, how cringy. And he could have easily waved me off, sent me packing, said, okay, kid, see you later. Instead, he said,
00:42:09
Speaker
Kid, you're an actor? No, you're going to be a star. And then he shook my hand and he sent me back to my table. Like, do you know how fucking, i mean, and that is literally what he's, I'm not making a word of that up because it's burned in my head. Do you know how fucking cool that is that a legend said that to a fucking weird, ugly looking kid? Are you like, come on, man.
00:42:31
Speaker
That's fucking amazing. He's a good man. And, and Bancroft wouldn't marry an asshole. Sorry. Yeah. you You need to watch this documentary. Oh, I will. Can't wait. Andrew, my first one is a movie that you might have heard about. It's called The Secret Agent. um This is, it's up for the Oscar and it stars Wagner Mura or Wagner Mura. I don't really know how you say his name. I don't know. um But you know who I'm talking about. And a very good looking man. He was um in Narcos, et cetera, et cetera. And he is Brazilian. And this movie is from Brazil. I got to go to a special screening of it at the Lighthouse Cinema, which still has yet to sponsor this show. going to point that the fuck out. God damn you. Anyways, I got to go to a special screening. um Also, the the embassy of Brazil was at the screening. So the ambassador was there and they had drinks and they had Brazilian food and it was it was really fun. um It was funny when they started the film because obviously there were people from Brazil there who can speak Portuguese. um But most people were either from Ireland or like me and don't speak Portuguese. And so they started the movie and there were no subtitles. And was like, I was like, oh my God, what have I gotten myself into? Do I get up? Do I leave? What am I going to do? And I looked around and like there were so many other people thinking the exact same thing. And then finally a woman came in and she was like, you guys were so sorry we forgot to put the version on with subtitles so it was it was pretty funny anyways uh the movie i i i enjoyed the movie um i i would say it's maybe a little bit long it's a little bit meandering um it it definitely it takes a good time being artistic here and there
00:44:09
Speaker
um And I've heard that in other reviews from other people. um But on the whole, I think it's a really good movie. um And I think when's the last time you watched a movie from fucking Brazil? you Yeah. You know, I mean, I think that the actors are really great in this. They they really commit to it. There's some solid direction. it's It's a little lost here and there in the plot. I'll definitely grant you that. But in general, I think it's really good. Essentially, Wagner Moura is like a professor who in in this period in Brazil, like the state was out to get you if you were doing this or if you were doing that. So he's like trying to escape basically, but also trying to save his child. There's a lot of stuff that happens around it.
00:44:46
Speaker
um If you have a chance to see it, I would go see it. You know, it's one of those things too, though, where like, yeah, I'm going to guess a lot of our listeners right now are not used to hearing Portuguese for a long period of time. If that is the case, go see it at the cinema where you will be forced to put your phone down, right? yeah You'll be forced to focus on the movie. I would highly suggest you do that. I enjoyed it and I hope that you go see it.
00:45:09
Speaker
Cool. Yeah. Sounds interesting. Um, my next one is the new Muppet show. Oh, how was it? Uh, it's, it's, ah it's, it's classic. It's, it literally is going back to the original kind of Muppet show on stage with a guest star. It's produced by, um Seth Rogen. Um, and it's got, uh, Sabrina Carpenter is like the, uh, guest host. Um, ah So it's kind of like think about Saturday Night Live, but with Muppets. it' you know Sabrina Carpenter is the host. And God, i i I don't know how to express this, but I just love the Muppets so much. and I love the Muppets.
00:45:49
Speaker
When I heard that they took the Muppet ride out of MGM Studios, I vowed I'm never going back to Florida ever again. like Yeah, well, we don't need to go back there anyway, Andrew. We don't. um But yeah, it was it was so fun. If you've ever harkened back to like watching the old Muppet show, i I took a stint, I think, during the pandemic where we where when Disney Plus was like a brand new thing. They had like all the old Muppet shows on.
00:46:14
Speaker
a Disney plus and I watched a bunch of them. Yeah. um And I just i I fell in love with it. And then, you know, the newest Muppet movies I've always liked. I loved the Muppet um haunted Haunted House special they did a couple years back. Yeah. um And this was just like a return to classic like Muppets and them doing their little skits. And i don't know, i had some of I had so much fun with it. I know that you'll love it. You should definitely check it out. It's the new Muppet show. I hope they do more episodes. I hope this isn't just a one time thing.
00:46:43
Speaker
I can't wait. um My next one is Groundhog Day. Why did I watch it? Because it was Groundhog Day. um Groundhog Day. Look, if you've never seen Groundhog Day, I don't know. Maybe you won't like it because you didn't see it in 1993 like every other normal person. um And like, yeah, some of the comedy is it's not that it's bad comedy, actually. It's that it might just keep seem kind of schlocky or kind of like this kind of silly now. um But for me, it's a classic. I love Groundhog Day. I try to watch it every single year. It's a Bill Murray classic. Bill Murray, Andy McDowell, Chris Elliott. What happens? Bill Murray is a weatherman on TV in Pittsburgh. He, every year, is tasked with going to Punxsutawney, Pennsylvania, where, of course, Punxsutawney Phil lives, the Groundhog.
00:47:28
Speaker
And he hates going there with all of his heart. He leads a sad, awful, terrible life, and he is mad at everybody because he can't change his circumstances. So what happens? The fates decide that on this particular Groundhog Day that he would live Groundhog Day over and over and over and over again until he finally learns his lesson.
00:47:51
Speaker
that's the movie. And honestly, it still hits me in all the right places. It does. It's like kind of touching. It's kind of sad. It's really funny. It's stupid.
00:48:02
Speaker
And it's just, I don't know. It's a great one. It's a classic. I'm really glad that I watched it again this year. So if you've ever watched Groundhog Day before, maybe you should. Yeah, two different outcomes this year. So we have no idea. Ooh, what will happen? Woodstock Willie said one thing and the other the other one said something else. Clubs Tawny Phil is the one that we trust. And look, winter is terrible. It's never going to end. Well, at least until March 21st.
00:48:29
Speaker
yep All right. My next one, um my next two, actually, i watched on Hulu if you're looking for something. um This is called Griffin in Summer. have ever Have you seen anything about this? I have heard of it, but I don't remember what it is, though.
00:48:44
Speaker
So this follows a a young kid. I'd say he's probably 14 or 15. That's like the age that we're looking at. And he's on summer break and he's like a precocious little child who like his his idea of a summer is like writing a play and putting on a play with his friends. I love him.
00:49:03
Speaker
and And this is like what he's doing. But this is like his biggest summer ever because he's like, I'm going to get a theater for this play. This is like, this is the one. like And it's the the the ah play that he's producing is all about like grief and like alcoholism. it's so It's so adult for like a kid. So that is all that is also like every high school theater kid. that is yeah that is that person. Jesus.
00:49:27
Speaker
um and it it turns out this summer um his his dad is traveling a lot for work so his mom hires a local i would say this guy's probably like 22 like this like a local kid to like just help her out with like um yard work and like getting the pool ready and like just like random stuff around the house because yeah the dad's traveling all summer and it And this kid starts to slowly fall in love with this like like older boy. dear. And then it's like wrestling with like the the feelings and like what do you do with those feelings and all that kind of stuff. So it's kind of a coming-of-age movie, but it's...
00:50:08
Speaker
it's it Melanie Linsky plays the mom. Oh, nice. Okay. That's like, you kind of only need to know that. And I would definitely encourage people to check this one out because it's it's like, it's sweet, but it's kind of cringy, but it's kind of like, what do we, it, Any gay kid that went that grew up in like the Midwest or like in like flyover country is going to like it will get this movie. what and so like Well, I like this one.
00:50:35
Speaker
You'll love it. Got it. I kind of figured that. And the kid is very precocious. He's not overacting or over... I don't know. He's a good kid actor. That's all say. That's cool. And so I would definitely say check out Griffin in Summer. God, this child actually sounds a bit like myself. Yeah. You might not like it because you identified too with it. I know, going to like, God, that was me for God's sake. Anyways, my next one is one that I just watched last night. It's one I've been looking forward to. It's called Blue Moon.
00:51:07
Speaker
Blue Moon just came out in 2025, directed by Richard Linklater. ah It stars it a a wonderful cast, Ethan Hawke. Margaret Qualley, Bobby Cannavale, Andrew Scott, and then a bunch of like lower actors that you don't really know, but maybe you've seen a couple here and there.
00:51:23
Speaker
um This is the story Lawrence Hart. Do you know Lawrence Hart? I don't. ah But you've heard of Rogers and Hart perhaps before, yes? ah No. You've heard of Rod—exactly. But you've heard of Rogers and Hammerstein, haven't you?
00:51:37
Speaker
Yes. There you go. That's the crux of this movie. So Rogers—Richard Rogers is a very, very famous ah early composer of of American musicals, right? And this movie takes place on the opening night of Oklahoma, which is like the one of the most classic, like besides Showboat, probably the most classic American musical of all time. And before this, Richard Rogers, so Richard Rogers wrote that with Oscar Hammerstein, of course, and then they would go on to write a Sound of Music and a bunch of other stuff together. ah But before this, ah though, ah Rogers and Hart would have been together writing musicals. um And the musicals that they wrote were not kind of the same thing that eventually Richard Rogers would go on to to compose with Oscar Hammerstein. And all the stuff that that they did together, like Pal Joey, The Boys from Syracuse, Babes in Arms, like they're all, like if you're in the if you're into musicals, you probably know them, but you don't really know them if you're not, right? and But however, Lawrence Hart was the lyricist and he wrote really amazing lyrics and ideas for songs. So the song Blue Moon, which you probably know, Blue Moon, you saw me standing the room.
00:52:59
Speaker
Or My Funny Valentine. Most people know that one. Bewitched, Bothered, Bewildered. It's all come from Lawrence Hart. Of course, Richard Rodgers did the music. But in this movie, it plays on how no one really remembers Lawrence Hart. And no one really knows who he is at the end of the day.
00:53:17
Speaker
um And so this is a movie that takes place about four months before he dies. And and and that's not a spoiler. it It tells you that from the very beginning of the movie. ah Lawrence Hart is played by Ethan Hawke. And Ethan Hawke, this might be his best role he's ever done. He's incredible. I think he's nominated, right?
00:53:35
Speaker
And I'll tell you what, he should fucking win. I mean, the movie is basically one big monologue from him. There's some dialogue, don't get me wrong. But ah if you were to look at the entirety, like like the ratio of talk time that he has compared to everybody else, he is probably 80% of this movie just talking his ass off.
00:53:54
Speaker
And it's a really, it's it's a really kind of heartbreaking exploration of just like life and where you are and what it means and what you're going to be remembered for, or if anyone will remember you at all. um So it's really good. i thought it was great. um I watched it at home. um Couldn't get in the theater here. So yeah, I don't know.
00:54:14
Speaker
ah You might like it. You might not. I don't know. It's one that I definitely got into, but Blue Moon, highly recommend. Cool. Sounds like he's stretching those ah Before Sunrise vocals once again. He's so good, man. he i mean, he really is. He's a great actor.
00:54:28
Speaker
Yeah. Is that Linklater? Those movies, right? ah I think that he did. Yeah, he did. Before Sunrise, Before Sunset. Yeah. Yeah. And Before Midnight. After Sunset. Yeah. um I love those movies. um Anyway, um my last one is probably my favorite on my list. This is called Twinless. Have you heard anything about this? I have heard about this, but I have not seen it yet.
00:54:50
Speaker
um So this is Dylan O'Brien. He plays a twin. um And at the start of the movie, you learn that his other twin has been in an accident and has died. And so it kind of goes through him going through that grieving process and then going to a group where um everyone else in that same group has also lost a twin. oh So think like...
00:55:12
Speaker
like think like someone that you've like literally grown up with, but literally spent all your time with, like it's your, it's your other half, like truly your other half. Um, and all these people in this grieving group have all lost a twin and they're all talking about it. And he strikes up a friendship with this other guy, um who's, who's a gay guy. And, um, they just start to like hang out because they're both like in the same kind of like grief. And that's where I want to leave it because the less you know about the story, the better this movie is going to be for you. Okay. It's the closest to horror, I will say, in the in this in this list of movies that I listed today. Okay. um It's got a lot of like little twists and turns, but it's just like it's a really great exploration on grief and straight versus gay and how we mix together and just people in general. And I don't know, there was just something very...
00:56:10
Speaker
it's ah it's it's really really good you yeah it's if for people here in the u.s it's on hulu so you can easily check it out but maddie i would spend money to watch this movie it's very very good well uh it's actually it's at it's at the cinema now here so you should go see it i will definitely go see it for sure um and tillin o'brien is naked in it so you know is he really is it like you do you see everything ah But for sure. I'll tell you what. I do love that Dylan O'Brien.
00:56:39
Speaker
um that That Love and Monsters movie, I think you saw it too, didn't you? Yeah. Yeah. oh yeah that was That was fucking great, man. Like, it's really good. The fact that the dog didn't die, I'm in. And like, I mean, look, he he is a, he's just a cutie. He is. He's just a little cutie. I've been watching him since ah fucking, what was the wolf wolf show? Teen Wolf. Teen So, yeah. Yeah. And watching them in your dreams too, girl, I'll tell you what. um Andrew, my last ones are ah double feature.
00:57:10
Speaker
ah Because we lost ah the one and only Catherine O'Hara on the 30th of January. fucking terrible like fucking like like actually terrible how awful that was because everyone is just so depressed about everything and then on top of it suddenly Catherine O'Hara just dies like just dies on us yeah without any sore any sign of any like struggle and with health or anything exactly like I mean, I don't know about you, but I like I straight cried for an hour that night. It was Friday. It was after I found out after work. Bobby fucking texted me. And I was like holy fucking shit. um
00:57:47
Speaker
And then I was like, well, I guess I got to watch movies now. um So I watch Waiting for Guffman and Best in Show, which I think are are her two best. And um if you've never seen them before, of course, these are the Christopher Guest mockumentary style movies. Waiting for Guffman is about ah the sesquicentennial being held in Blaine, Missouri, where for ah for and for the celebration, they are putting on a musical called Red, White and Blaine.
00:58:13
Speaker
It's so good. And Catherine O'Hara is just great. She plays Sheila Perlman, married to Ron Perlman. And she thinks she's like such a serious actress in this. And like this is like yet another one of her big breaks playing this little tiny character.
00:58:29
Speaker
Blaine, Missouri. And then Best in Show, she plays Cookie Googleman, um who who loves terriers and shows a good dog. And like, you know, she's, it was such a joy to watch these again because, I mean, number they're they're always great to watch. But she's so funny. She's so funny and so delightful. And I bet i also watched the last episode of Schitt's Creek. um And that's all that I could bring myself to watch that night because I was, like like most other breathing people, i was ah absolutely shocked and and terrified as as to as to learning of her death. um So it was sad. It was really sad. But it was great to watch us again.
00:59:09
Speaker
Yeah, ah only someone that brought joy to our lives and and and really and not enough not enough love for A Mighty Wind because that's also a great one. oh it's so good. it's it's it's ah It's a joy. And the music that they literally wrote themselves. Yeah, exactly. my God.
00:59:25
Speaker
For your consideration, mean, she's great in it, but the movie's not great. you know it just it It needed more structure, it did. But just think about think about the vast majority of work and how long she was successful. I mean, we're talking Home Alone, Orange County, Schitt's Creek, Beetlejuice, like all these fucking things. It's it's a vast...
00:59:49
Speaker
ah you You would have to spend weeks watching her movies to see how successful she was. And so, ah you know, rest in power, Catherine O'Hara. It's truly a legend, a legend.
01:00:01
Speaker
Fantastic. Well, that does it for what you've been watching, bitch. Maddie brought us The Secret Agent, Groundhog's Day, Blue Moon, and Waiting for Guffman slash Best in Show. Andrew brought us Mel Brooks, The 99-Year-Old Man, The Muppet Show, Griffin in Summer, and Twinless. So folks, that does it for What You've Been Watching, bitch. Stay tuned. We'll be right back with our first film of the episode, 13 Ghosts.
01:00:29
Speaker
Listen to William Castle, whom the Saturday Evening Post calls the master of movie horror. Do you believe in ghosts?
01:00:40
Speaker
I do. And you will too. When you come to this theater and see my picture, 13 Ghosts. No more dictation today. When you see 13 Ghosts, you'll be given a supernatural viewer like this, which will enable you to penetrate for the first time into the spirit world.
01:01:01
Speaker
He'll let you see all 13 of our weird, wonderful, and wildly assorted ghosts. Now, brace yourself as we take you across the threshold of our haunted mansion where there's a ghost for everyone in the family.
01:01:16
Speaker
Father, mother, sister, brother. Ah! wow You'll be scared stiff too when you see what they see. Thirteen ghosts materializing in ectoplasmic color through the magic of Illusiono, the ghost viewer.
01:01:36
Speaker
The ghost of a lion in the basement.
01:01:42
Speaker
The ghost of a murderous cook in the kitchen. it! Stop it, I say! The ghost who speaks through the lips of the living. Death tonight to one of you.
01:01:59
Speaker
The evil ghost in the bedroom, fighting to take possession of this beautiful girl.
01:02:08
Speaker
you'll feel all the thrills and chills of seeing one ghost multiplied by the magic number 13.
01:02:17
Speaker
a five, six, seven, eight. No, wait, hold on. No, there's 13. 13 ghosts. Maddie, tell us all about 13 ghosts. Unusual thrills, unusual chills, unusual fear thrills you in the house of 13 ghosts. That didn't really work. The impoverished z Zorba family, Unexpectedly inherits a sprawling mansion from a cult obsessed uncle, Dr. Plato's Zorba, along with a house. This is really hard to read for some reason. Along with the house, they receive a collection of 12 captured ghosts made visible only by special ghost viewer goggles and the secret of a hidden fortune. But as mysterious dangers mount and specters stalk the corridors, the family must face the terrifying possibility of becoming the 13th Ghost themselves.
01:03:09
Speaker
This was directed by William Castle, written by Rob White, produced and distributed by Columbia. Buck Zorba, played by Charles Herbert. Medea Zorba, played by Joe Morrow. Hilda Zorba, played by Rosemary DeCamp. And Cyrus Zorba, played by Donald Woods. ah This was rated approved, which was the original release classification. It's 84 minutes long. Made in the USA, filmed in California, released in July of 1960. We don't know the budget of this film, actually, but we do know that it made $1.5 million. at the Bunk's office. um Andrew, this was definitely a first watch for me. What was it for you?
01:03:48
Speaker
Well, I first want to add to your characters because there's a very important... Margaret Hamilton. Margaret Hamilton plays the maid, Elaine, um who you know from The Wizard of Oz, which plays into a big part of this movie, especially the ending, which we'll about.
01:04:07
Speaker
ah But no, this was not a first watch for me. I saw this in my um William Castle-a-thon that I had when I was a teenager when I was watching a House on Haunted Hill and all these movies. um But it had been since then, since I've seen it. So it was like watching it again. um Listen, um I didn't remember this being so... um I guess the best way I can think for it is like flamboyant. Like, so like... Yeah, fair. Okay.
01:04:34
Speaker
Like laissez-faire because like the scary parts are like... I don't want to say they're really scary, but there's like some like scary stuff here. Like, especially I think about the scene where he's in the, uh, the, the like secret room where he like sees the ghost for the first time and they all catch on fire. And I was like, Ooh, that's kind of spooky, you know, for 1960. Fair. But then, but then like we cut to things like, Oh, uh, Sam, who is the main antagonist in the movie getting crushed in a bed. And then the next scene is them flipping through money going, we're rich. And I was like, wait,
01:05:11
Speaker
And so like, i don't know, there's like a weird balance in this movie that I couldn't quite grasp onto because every time that things got spooky, like I think about um the scene in the kitchen where the ghost is going crazy and like throwing things off the, the, the, the the cabinets and like the fucking butcher knife goes into the wall next to buck and like almost like slices him and then right after that like the kid's like oh yeah that's the that's the chef ghost and i was like wait what are we doing like i don't know like how i' is it supposed to be scary or is it supposed to be that goofy because i'm i'm struggling with like how I'm supposed to feel about this movie but like overall I still had a really good time with it I think that for 1960 there's actually quite a bit of um uh quite a bit of but a tale to tell here I really like that they made them like I I have in my notes I was like they rented all of their furniture like I know. Right. My God. um And like, so like, I don't know, there's, there's some good stuff in here. I just think it's kind of a little bit of a jumbled mess. It actually made me want to watch the 13 ghosts remake to see.
01:06:21
Speaker
I've seen the the remake before, but it's been a very long time. So I kind of wanted to like, see like how they took these ideas and put it into like a more modern story. Uh, maybe we'll do that in a future episode. I don't know if it fits within any of our safety context, but like overall I had a good time watching it. It's only like an hour and 17 minutes. So like, it's not that much time to fill up and i had fun with it. I thought the little ghost features for being nineteen sixty s were fun. um Although some of them are a little goofy. Like I, the, the, the one that I thought was so goofy was the, the mustache on the cook where it's like an over exaggerated white mustache, like out of man wearing like a black suit. I don't know. It was very weird.
01:07:04
Speaker
Um, but like, I, I, we'll talk more about it. What are your initial thoughts? ah yeah i i was I was telling Andrew before we started filming, I was filming, before we started recording, there we go. Where's my head today? I don't know what's going on. but It was a it was a long week.
01:07:21
Speaker
um Anyways, ah yeah, it was just kind of bored again, if I'm being honest. And like, look, I know it's a movie from 1960. I get it. I know that it's like it's ah it's a it's a piece of the horror canon. I know it's considered, you know, William Castle's masterpiece. I get all of that.
01:07:38
Speaker
But there's a good review on Letterboxd that I'd like to read to you. And this is written by a guy named Paul Thomas, who watched this apparently in 2021. And he said, i have such a hard time rating this on one hand if i was a kid in nineteen sixty with my three d glasses on and i saw these terrifying images bursting out of the screen at me it'd be a memorable experience for what william castles was trying to accomplish it's aoususing success On the other hand, Castle probably didn't understand the longevity of film.
01:08:09
Speaker
He had no way of predicting streaming channels playing this and people watching at home on their TVs or on their phones or on their whatever. In that sense, seeing faint ghosts you can barely make out footing on the screen for an extremely long time it feels damn near pointless watching now i don't agree with him there So,
01:08:29
Speaker
this movie is a huge success but unless you have a way to watch three d or a time machine i don't know why you'd watch it so look i don't agree with everything in that review but it does kind of helped to explain a little bit of how I feel about it, which is, look, this this was designed for a specific way of watching it. And that was called the Illusion O. And these were special glasses with a red and a blue. It's it's like 3D glasses that all of us have probably had before. And you could look through one side or you could look through the other or you could look through both.
01:08:58
Speaker
And if you look through one side, you would see the ghost. If you look through one side, you wouldn't see the ghost, blah, blah, blah, whatever. So it was truly like designed for that. So there definitely is a part of the experience that William Castle wanted us to experience that we are missing here.
01:09:14
Speaker
And so i I think that's kind of important to remember. And the other part of it is like, well, if you don't have that full experience, I don't know, it does make it kind of hard to watch. Like, I mean, it's not that I didn't it's not that i didn't enjoy it. i just...
01:09:32
Speaker
i I don't know. I i didn't. i You know what? Actually, I didn't enjoy it. who who Who am I trying to kid? It's not that I hated it, but I didn't have fun watching this. It felt a little bit like a chore. I'm not going to lie.
01:09:44
Speaker
I guess I didn't have that. um I thought everyone did a great job. I thought that the special effects for the time were pretty good. It's not that they don't do a great job. It's not that the special effects aren't good. It's that it's not the experience that it was really supposed to be. And that's no one's fault. yeah I just want to say that. Like, it's not even William Castle's fault, for God's sake.
01:10:01
Speaker
He made this for a very specific way of watching it. And we just don't we don't get that. I don't know. Yeah, it's kind of like going, it's kind of like watching Honey, I Shrunk the Audience at home, like, yeah, not having like all the experiences of
Critiques of Movie Narrative and Characters
01:10:15
Speaker
Disney. You know, yeah, yeah I would agree with that. Yeah.
01:10:18
Speaker
Yeah, I get that. um I, the one part I really liked that I wish would have been more weaved into the movie is um i loved the opening credits where we got to see each individual ghost. Oh, that was cool. Yeah. Like the art, the art that came at the screen. I wish that would have been reflected in the actual ghosts though, because like they don't look like that. Like they look like, and listen, we're watching this on HD TVs and everything's like very close and you can see everything, but they kind of just look like they're wearing like, like ah Halloween masks. You know what i mean? and,
01:10:51
Speaker
it's It it''t isn't reflective of the... Because I was watching those that were coming at the screen at the beginning, the artwork, and even like the hanging woman, um who we kind of see in the movie, um she's like very reminiscent of the hanging wife in um ah House on Haunted Hill. Yeah, yeah, sure. um And so i was like, ooh, this is going to be good. But then like the actual like ghosts come on the screen, and apart from like the lion tamer, they just kind of look...
01:11:20
Speaker
goofy I don't know they look goofy yeah they do and so like it was once again though maybe when you got the the illusion of glasses on maybe they don't look as goofy you know like maybe they really do look a little bit spookier and scarier because like you're seeing different colors or some shit but who knows It was funny, though, that we've now inherited inherited. No, that's not right. We've now watched like three William Castle movies in the course of this of this podcast. And it it is really funny to see kind of like the through line of like, there's always a character that's up to no good. Right, exactly.
01:11:57
Speaker
And in this movie, we get Sam, who is kind of like the the ah attorney, I guess, is his is his job, where he's like ah kind of giving them the house and giving them the rules. And the rules are so silly. it's like, no, no, no, no. His name is Ben.
01:12:12
Speaker
Ben, sorry. Wrong three-lettered first heard yeah um and but ah we Well, we do try to forget Ben in these parts. just yeah Yeah. Long story. Keep going. There you go. um we get you know We get him where he's like telling them the rules, and the rules are kind of silly because it's like, if you don't if you don't live in the house, then it gets sold to the state.
01:12:37
Speaker
And why? Yeah, it didn't make any sense. Yeah. The estate rules are very weird. um But it gets the – and like honestly, like i don't really understand like – listen, I get it.
01:12:49
Speaker
Poverty is a a mean son of a bitch that will make you do crazy things. True. But yeah sure you your daughter has been awakened by a ghoul attacked. Your wife has had things thrown at her. And you have and had a, can't think of the right name. It's not a butcher knife. What is that? What is the cleaver? A cleaver. A cleaver thrown you know half an inch from your face.
01:13:16
Speaker
What else do you need to know? Because this this main guy, ah Buck, right? Yeah, Buck. He is insufferable in gaslighting all his up all of his family members into staying in this house. because ah what You mean the kid, right?
01:13:32
Speaker
ah No, I mean the the dad. but Buck is the kid. The dad is ah the dad is Cyrus? Cyrus, yeah. um the way that you get The way that he gaslights his whole family to stay in this house is in it it is beyond me. Well, I mean, ah truly, the only not insufferable person in this movie is Medea.
01:13:54
Speaker
ah Yeah. Everyone else, including Buck, the son, for I've never heard a child talk about a secret so much in my fucking life. Yeah. All of them are insufferable. The mom, the dad, and the son. The sister, yeah. ah you No, the sister is the only one that isn't insufferable. She's she's actually like, fine.
01:14:11
Speaker
she i'm fine with that I'm fine with the mom. she's just trying like She's just trying to get through this shit. You know what i mean? um And then Alan, well, not Alan. What's his face? ah Ben is just obviously but the total swashbuckler. Just trying to steal everything.
01:14:27
Speaker
Um, the other thing I was thinking about in this too was why do they, what are these names that they have? Like what on earth are these names? They are the Zorba family and their names are Buck, Medea and Cyrus. They're going full Greek on this one right now. um And then on top of it, the ah Margaret Hamilton plays Zacharias, doesn't she? it is is the Is the last name of it.
01:14:51
Speaker
ah Yeah. Elaine Zacharias. So like, why do they all have Greek names? Do we know? interesting. do we know why they do? Do you know why? No. But that leads me to believe that William Castle may have been saying something about Greek people and poorness. Yeah.
01:15:07
Speaker
I'm not very nice. Maybe I'm just like, I just don't understand why they literally all have Greek names. That makes no sense to me. And like, that's the other thing about this is like they they keep saying how poor they are, how poor they are, how poor they are. This guy works for like a major museum and is ah like a paleontologist. Like what?
01:15:24
Speaker
Why are they poor? Like, are they just really bad at handling money? yeah Okay, so here's... here's ah I want to go back to my original point, which is we don't have the gimmick of illusion now to watch this through.
01:15:35
Speaker
Okay, fine. So we have to think... So we have to actually concentrate on the story. yeah that's That's just it. So now we actually have to look at the plot and think about it. And when you start to do that here, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Now, I mean, fuck, it's 13 ghosts. It's fucking 84 minutes long. I'm not going to make a fucking, you know, essay out of this. But I'm just saying, like...
01:15:55
Speaker
That's why if if you know if you're if anyone's asking me, boy, do you want to watch this again? I'm going to be like, honestly, no. unless Unless there's like an arthouse cinema that has that has Illusiono and we can watch it that way, I would love to watch it that way. I'd be so into doing it. But watching it at your house on the couch, no, it kind of sucks. Be honest.
01:16:14
Speaker
um I don't know if he caught this, but like at the beginning of the movie when we are introduced to the the main guy, he he He's giving this lecture at the museum and it is the most grim interpretation no for real of the end of the dinosaurs going into the tar pit and how the the the vultures will come in ah like ah try to eat often and eat off of it. like it's It is over the top.
01:16:38
Speaker
yeah it's so grim. I'm just like, Jesus Christ. um And then ah what I will say about this, i think that they pull off a lot of the practical um the practical stuff pretty well.
01:16:52
Speaker
I mean, her okay I liked a lot of the like like, I don't know, like the the candle candles lighting themselves and like how they like came across the room and like it showed him where the dial was and...
01:17:04
Speaker
And that kind of stuff that would kind of, it pokes my button, if you will. um I'm trying to think if there was anything um more.
01:17:15
Speaker
I will say when the ghosts show up, they spend way too much time on them. Like it is. But once again, that goes back to the ah the the effect. That's the reason why it was probably happening.
01:17:28
Speaker
Like, I'm sorry, but if I'm in eight, I would say that kid's probably eight, I would say. um And I go into the basement of my new house and I see a ghost lion with a ghost, like headless corpse. I'm not going to stand there. A headless lion tamer. Yeah. Sorry. um I'm not going to stay there and watch it for like five minutes. I'm going to be out yeah of there. Yeah. Or how about when um when Ben tries to kill Buck and um tries to kill him with... This is so weird. with A suffocating bed? Yeah, with a button on the four-poster bed that for some reason there's a button that is like a hydraulic that brings down the canvas top to this bed. Yeah.
01:18:19
Speaker
And it is the slowest like murder weapon I've ever seen in my life, number one. And number two, it takes fucking... God, it does that scene just takes forever.
01:18:31
Speaker
It takes so long, in fact, that ah the ghost of Plato's Zorba comes back to stop the murder and ah awakens a young Buck, and Buck gets up and and goes to the far wall to watch the ghost of Plato's Zorba push the body of Ben into the bed and then he gets suffocated by this very strange apparatus.
01:18:56
Speaker
It is the longest scene known to mankind. It just goes on and on and on and on. And once again, ah this is the last time I'll say it. It is clearly supposed to be about the effects right there. Duh, duh, duh.
01:19:09
Speaker
But if you're not watching it with it, boy, is it kind of silly. um but We should talk about the seance scene a little bit. Sure. Because that's the whole thing of this. I did like, though, that there's a there's a funny little exchange where the mom is talking with the the kid and he's like, do I get to go to the seance? And she's like, absolutely not. You'll be in bed. And he goes, oh, my first one. And I was like, oh, you plan on attending many more of these seances. That's funny.
01:19:36
Speaker
um And we should talk a little bit about kind of the the money of it all because sure that's like like that's like the main crux of the movie is that there is a fortune gets money somewhere hidden in the mansion. um And it's funny because like the the the riddle to where the money is hidden is something like um you'll find it where none of my like none of the people that hurt me will ever find it. Like that's like kind of the crux of like the riddle.
01:20:07
Speaker
But it's under the stairs? And I was like, I don't... What do you mean? like Yeah, like, no one goes under the stairs, freak. like Yeah. ah and it's And it's hidden by a secret... Like, this whole shit this whole shebang, this whole mansion is like secret passage palooza. Like, Ouija board is hidden behind the passage. um the The money is hidden behind... There's there's even a this I thought this was so funny that there was a door to a secret passage. Like there was a door and it opens and it's sealed, but that's the secret passage. And I was like, that kind of defeats the purpose of a secret passage. yeah that should be hidden. Where's your secret passage? Behind that door. yeah exactly. But it's still a secret passage. but I don't know. um
01:20:51
Speaker
But ah just to like compliment what you were talking about with that very extended scene of Ben's death is like, that's like the, ah the apex apex of the movie. Like that's like the, the, the ghost comes back to save the kid and kills the kills the guy who killed him. Yeah. Sure. And then literally the next that they cut to like literally cut to,
01:21:14
Speaker
the wife fanning through the money and being like, we are so rich now. And I was like, wait, we're not going to talk about how Ben just died upstairs? Like, I want to. A hundred percent with like the fakest hundred dollar bills ever seen in my life.
01:21:28
Speaker
Yeah, like it's just... ah I've actually in the in the course of time that we've been talking about this I lowered my score for it I'm not gonna like I understand that this is like a part of an important part of the horror canon blah blah blah blah blah but it is it really is just kind of ridiculous at the end of the day I'm sorry but i it it is one of those things that I can see why someone saw this movie and was like I think I can make this better and redo it and so yeah I'm sure and I I have seen that remake but I can't so long It's been so long. I cannot remember it at all. So maybe I'll watch it again one day, but i don't know. This has kind of soured me to it, if I'm being honest.
01:22:03
Speaker
All right. Here at Friday the 13th, we judge on a seven-stripe scale. For the seven stripes, of the gay old rainbow. Matty, what do you give? 13 Ghost 1960. I gave it a three and a half, and I said, roast me if you will. But this is just pretty boring, um although I do think that there were some genuinely funny parts to it.
01:22:19
Speaker
I'm going to give it a four. I'm going to say I liked the story and the setup of the ghosts, but the tone kept wavering between spooky and goofy, and it kind of took me out in the moments. Well, friends, that does it for 13 Ghosts, but stay tuned because we have one more film coming your way, The Quiet Ones.
Review of 'The Quiet Ones'
01:22:41
Speaker
What is the supernatural? What? What if you could prove that the supernatural was merely manifestation of what already exists in the mind?
01:22:53
Speaker
If we can cure one patient, we cure all mankind.
01:23:02
Speaker
What story are you looking for? Are you a believer? I suppose I don't know what I believe in. I hope you don't scare easily.
01:23:13
Speaker
Welcome to the experiment. What's wrong with her? She was abandoned. She remembers nothing from her past.
01:23:25
Speaker
Families would keep her for a bit. Then things would happen.
01:23:35
Speaker
Don't look into her eyes. Don't say anything to her.
01:23:43
Speaker
What if she's just a vessel? You're not alone, are you? There's something there with you, isn't there? What is it? There's something bad inside of me.
01:24:10
Speaker
You're scared because you can't explain what you see.
01:24:19
Speaker
your strength for what lies here.
01:24:46
Speaker
If you've seen The Music Man, get ready for The Quiet Ones. Andrew, tell us all about The Quiet Ones. a shocking experiment, an unspeakable evil. Set in 1974, unorthodox psychology professor Joseph Kupland and a group of students attempt to prove that the paranormal phenomena are rooted in human psyche rather than the supernatural.
01:25:11
Speaker
They recruit troubled Jane Harper and conduct extreme experiments to externalize her negative energy, hoping to manifest it as a poltergeist. but the results are far more terrifying than expected. This is directed by John Pogue, written by Tom DeVille, John Pogue, Craig Rosenberg, and Oren Moverman.
01:25:33
Speaker
Production and distribution were handled by Hammer and Lionsgate. Professor Joseph Coupland was played by Jared Harris. ah Brian McNeil was played by Sam Claflin. Jane Harper was played by Olivia Cooke. Chrissy Dalton is played by Aaron Richards, and Harry Abrams is played by Rory Fleck Byrne.
01:25:51
Speaker
This is rated PG-13. It comes in at 98 minutes. It was released on April 10th of 2014. Locations were Oxford, let's just say that, and the budget a year, this is not correct, but Maddie's is 200,000. I'm looking at right now, estimated.
01:26:10
Speaker
that's it And it brought in about 17.8 million. So if that was correct, we would have a Quiet Ones 2 by now, but we can go from there. Matty, was this your first time watching The Quiet Ones? And what are your initial thoughts? Well, apparently not, because I went to um Amazon to see if I could watch it, which, by the way, I've canceled my Amazon membership, which I'm very happy about.
01:26:33
Speaker
um goodbye prime because you know what it wasn't that good in the first place and jeff bezos is a fascist so goodbye um but anyways went there to go see if i could watch it and i couldn't watch it so i had to run the movie instead from apple and um i had watched it before on amazon i guess which i don't remember i truly don't remember at all but okay whatever anyways yeah this is my first time watching it um uh i I just think that this story is a bit convoluted. And i i think that if they had, so and they and like this is based off of like a real story and it's based off a real experiment called the Philip experiment, um a 1972 parapsychology project in Toronto that attempted to create a ghost through collective imagination, though the movie dramatizes and fictionalizes the events heavily. So like, okay, I guess that kind of is hard to to recreate. And that's going to be sort of a difficult concept to to make on film in the first place. But I feel like if they had just simplified this down to something, something just a little bit more like,
01:27:43
Speaker
fucking it's a haunting and there's a seance and they're fucking filming it if this would have been a better movie if I'm being real like there's just so much going on here that I got lost in it and I just kind of started to not care which is a shame because the movie isn't bad like like the stuff that happens in it is there's some scary stuff there's some good effects I think that the actors in this are definitely not bad. Jared Harris is a fantastic fucking actor for God's sake. Sam Claflin did a great job. He's also kind of cute. Um, and the rest of them also really good. So, I mean, you know, there they are.
01:28:16
Speaker
um you know, and it's filmed in Oxfordshire. Like that's a beautiful part of England. If you've never been there before and, and actually on and, and in the grounds of, of, of, of Oxford itself. Um,
01:28:27
Speaker
Like, there's some great elements here. i just, I don't know. It just didn't work for me the way that I was hoping it would work. What about you? Yeah, so I did watch this when it came out in 2014, I guess. But I didn't, I literally didn't remember anything. I i distinct distinctly remember when we were looking for seance movies, we were like, is there a seance in this movie? So obviously neither us. And honestly, part of the problem is that some of the other seance movies, we've already done them in the show. so Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:28:54
Speaker
Um, so this was kind of a fresh wash because I didn't really remember that much about it. Um, it was, it was fun to see Olivia cook as a, as a young actress, uh, because we've seen her in so many things now, um, including a great performance in Bates motel, amongst other things. Yes. Um, Jared Harris, obviously we've seen him and him in a ton of stuff. I mean, at this point, Sam Claflin was probably just getting ready to be in the hunger games. So like, sure you know, just a ton of like the great caliber of actors in this movie.
01:29:25
Speaker
And I, I went into it being like, you know what? I remember kind of being, I remember kind of not liking this movie, but I'm going to go into with the fresh eyes and try to make, like, try to just go in and see if I enjoyed myself. sure And like there were parts of where like, Ooh, this is kind of spooky. Like there's like a, like there's a, there's an extended scene through kind of like quote unquote found footage up in an attic that was actually like kind of scary. And like, I was like, okay, this movie is getting me. And then it would like, and then it would lull and then it would just be like, Oh, and now, like and now Joseph is sleeping with Chrissy for some reason that doesn't make any sense. And yeah, like, I don't know. I think I agree you. There's just, there's too many layers. And then like, by the time you get to the end and you're like, oh, and there's also a cult, don't forget about the cult. And then there's also a demon. Don't forget about the demon. like then there's also this. And I'm just like, can we just wrap it up?
01:30:20
Speaker
Because I'm getting a little bit confused on like what we're supposed to care about. But then like, but then we get to this like conclusion at the end where fucking Chrissy goes running out the door and gets lifted off the ground and dragged through the, and I'm like, holy shit, this is great. But then I'm like, oh, but then we get the ending and that's not so great. And so I, I'm sorry, ahead, go ahead, go ahead. It's just like this movie is a series of peaks and valleys that I can't recover from. And so it's really hard for me to pin down like, did I like this movie or did I hate this movie? I'm kind of and I'm kind of in the middle. So I don't know. ah What did you want to say? Yeah, I mean, I i definitely didn't hate it, but i'm I'm not in the light category either. I mean, but like like the part, for example, where she does get sucked up outside the door.
01:31:05
Speaker
Like it it it comes at a point where it's like, yeah, it is like, whoa, but it's also like, I don't even care about this anymore. If I'm being honest, like, like you know, I think the peaks and valleys things makes a lot of sense, but there's way more valleys than there are peaks.
01:31:20
Speaker
And like, maybe it's designed that way. Maybe it's designed that when there is a peak, it really feels like a peak. And like, to be fair, you're successful in that. But if all you're giving me is like three peaks, like that's not really enough.
01:31:34
Speaker
If I'm being real. Well, and then they they add in the layer of like, um what's his name? Brian. um Kind of like falling in love with Jane, but kind of not really. Which not needed. like like there's i hate it when these stories like revert to sex as a way to fill in time. And, like, if there's a genuine need for it, then obviously, duh, I'm not a fucking prude. But, like, there was no there was no need for that. In the same way that, if I'm being honest, there was no need for the professor to, like, suddenly be fucking Chrissy. Like, i know we are we just trying to paint, oh, he's a really naughty professor, isn't he? Like, dude, we get it. You you don't have to, like...
01:32:13
Speaker
you don't have to beat the audience over the head. Instead, you can respect your audience and not like go for the lowest common to not denominator. I'm sorry. That's just And like, we already got that he was a bad guy because he was experimenting on Jane. And then we got the the double negative of him being a bad guy because it turned out that that kid that he was experimenting on was his own child. So like...
01:32:36
Speaker
Like we get it. We get that he's a bad guy. Like we don't need the added layer of like him sleeping with one of the students. Like because we aren we we don't need to add it added Like it's some like extra, oop, don't forget he's bad. Boink, here's another one. Like instead, like there there should have been signs of that very early on. Like from like from from like the classroom scene at the beginning, give it to us then to seed the problem. But they don't do that. Instead, it just gets tossed in for no meaning at all.
01:33:05
Speaker
Like we already know he's a bad guy because he lights that girl on fire with a lighter. You know what mean? Like we know, we get it. And we already get like the horniness from um Harry and Chrissy, like with them, like breaking the bed. Like we are, we get it. We don't need like an added layer of literally everything. And I think that, You're spot on with your interpretation of this movie. with there's There's just too much loaded into 98 minutes. And it it it devolves from the actual story that they're trying to tell, which which is interesting. I think when you read, um you know, inspired by the real experiment, and you read about like...
01:33:44
Speaker
creating a ghost through collective imagination, whoa, that could be cool. Like you don't need a cult and a demon and a love story and thing and a thing and a thing. We barely do that in this movie. Instead, we do experiments that don't make any sense at all. Like instead, get down to something simple. You've already got the setting. You're in Oxfordshire, it's England, it's Misty, blah, blah, blah, blah. You got it, great. You've got a great cast of people, wonderful. Now, let the script do its work. Just let it do its work. Instead of making this a maze of a million things, make this a movie about a haunting. Make it a movie about trying to contact the ghost. Make it a movie about trying to capture the evidence of that. That's all that this had to be. Instead, it's got to be about...
01:34:32
Speaker
as you've already said, fucking 10,000 different things. And by the end of it, I'm like, okay, well now I just feel tired after watching this. I don't feel scared. I feel tired. And that like, that there's a couple of things in this movie where I was like, wait, why? Because so ah the to my knowledge in this movie, they never explain why they play the loud music when she's i in the room. To keep her awake or something like that?
01:34:55
Speaker
i But all she wants to do is sleep. So what I don't know. And they and they say later on in the movie, like she's not active when she's sleeping. So why not let her sleep? i don't I don't get it. is it That's the state. It doesn't make any sense.
01:35:09
Speaker
And there's a line early on in the movie where um ah the the professor says to Brian, don't look into her eyes and don't say anything. What does he do immediately? Both those things. And it makes no difference. So yeah I was like, I don't know. I'm just kind of confused by this one because like when when you look at like the film quality and the quality of actors and like how it's filmed and like it all makes sense. It all looks good on paper, if you will. But then you start to like get into like the meat of the movie and you're just like, what the fuck are we doing here, guys? Like, this is, this is too much. Like, i don't know. It's just, and then like the whole clap thing at the end that me that is the clap that he does for like, it's kind of stupid.
01:35:54
Speaker
I know. i don't know. I wanted to like this so much more, but I just really did. It's, it's, it's, it's dull and it is, and it's boring and, and, and it just, it doesn't deliver what it's supposed to deliver.
01:36:09
Speaker
just doesn't. There's even that moment up in the attic, like I was talking about earlier, where there's like a really interesting moment where there's like a burnt silhouette of a baby in a, in a crib. And then like, she goes to try to pick it up and it burns her. And, but then like,
01:36:24
Speaker
But then you find out later that she is that. Like, she is Evie. So that then negates there being like a spirit.
01:36:35
Speaker
So was she just putting on a show? like what What's the point of that? i Honestly, i I wish I knew, but I i don't. In fact, i'm going to I'm going right now to take down my my rating of this, too.
01:36:51
Speaker
I think I am. and then And then, oh, this is the other thing that I had a question about. I'm probably not going to know the answer, but please. So there's a running gag in the movie where at the beginning there is a a group of students mainly led by one boy who think that what this professor is doing is unethical. Immoral. Immoral, they say. And then later on in the movie, when Brian goes back to Oxford to collect more information, um he runs into that guy and he's like, you know, killing a young girl is an easy way to create a ghost. And I was like, that's not what this movie is about. What are you talking about? Yeah, it doesn't that doesn't make any sense either, does it?
01:37:33
Speaker
So I just think that... man could there be a good movie in this i think so because there are some good scares like there's the scare where um where uh the professor gets pulled into that closet and bitten and then like there's some good stuff like there's like ah a part where there's like a face on the wall that burns up and then it it it the the sculpture on the wall is up in the attic and there's some good stuff in here i just think that there there are some good horror gimmicks for sure I just think they get lost in their own sauce on this one. think if i being
01:38:04
Speaker
completely agree with you. it's just i mean I think we're just going to kind of spin over and over again into it. but ah Some other things about the movie. This is a a Hammer Horror return. This film was part of the revival of British studio Hammer Film Productions, known for classic gothic horror, blending 70s period styling with modern supernatural themes.
01:38:23
Speaker
a Critical reception, it received mixed to negative reviews from critics, not a surprise, with common critiques focusing on familiar familiar possession tropes and reliance on jump scares rather than innovation.
01:38:37
Speaker
i guess I don't really know about that, I guess, but like the rest of it makes sense. Yeah, I don't know. i just, I was, I was dis, I feel like, I feel like a ah movie parent right now. I was just disappointed.
01:38:48
Speaker
I was too. I mean, I, I, I get that. i I think I was, I was genuinely hoping that this one was going to be better because I, I, I watched 13 ghosts first and wasn't all that plus by it, as you know.
01:38:59
Speaker
And so I was really hoping this one would be like a, a savior for this episode, but it, it wasn't. I'm sorry. Well, and it's funny because like then during the credits, they do this like very like, um i don't know like how you would say it, but like they show like photos from the actual experiment. And I was like, but you have sensationalized this so much. It's not even the actual experiment anymore. so photos The photos were more exciting than the and the movie itself. Well, and that's what I mean. I'm like, can we just have a movie about that for real? Yeah. I agree. and you know it's I've said this before, but you can't explain it all the way with a director's note. So you know you have to let your movie speak for itself. And and you can't just you know suddenly at the end of this put on you know these these you know genuinely cool photos of of of the actual um experiment itself and expect that to, you know i don't know, save it.
01:39:51
Speaker
um
Supporting the Podcast and Closing Thoughts
01:39:52
Speaker
i'm I'm looking at old letterbox reviews here too for it and you know it looks like there's theres there's actually more than than a few of people saying that they they watched this back in 2014 but they did a recent rewatch and it must be making a comeback because there's a lot from 2026. Oh really?
01:40:07
Speaker
Yeah. And people watching it for the first time in a long time going yeah why did I like that back then? So we we are definitely not alone in this I would say.
01:40:18
Speaker
All right. Do you want to go ahead and grade this one? Yeah, sure. I give it a three. And I said, this could have been great had they not insisted on such a convoluted storyline. Keep it simple.
01:40:29
Speaker
Yeah, I'm going to give it a 3.5. I said an interesting enough premise. And every time I got bored, something interesting would happen. But overall, just kind of a plot mess. Well, that's quiet ones, folks. This is the first episode in a long time where we both lowered our scores instead of going up on our scores. We can't even save ourselves on this one.
01:40:48
Speaker
Couldn't stay quiet about this review. Listen, folks, that does it for our films. It does it for this episode, too. But guess what? We'll be right back to close out the show and play a little game.
01:40:59
Speaker
When you first learned of this strange scenario, a ah psychic reading taking place involving several state employees on state time, I'm sure you've heard a lot in your career, but this must have been a first.
01:41:14
Speaker
It was a first. I immediately ordered an internal investigation. The I-Team learned through sources that Heather Anderson, a corrections officer who moonlights as a medium, someone who says they can talk to the dead, performed a seance in the office of Assistant Director of Corrections David McCauley, while three others looked on. Director Wall put all four on paid leave, three for an extended time, including his number two McCauley, Warden Robert Vitale, and Security Specialist Gerald Masso.
01:41:42
Speaker
For nine months of leave, the cost to taxpayers? More than $234,000.
01:41:48
Speaker
Well, dear listeners, that was episode 158 of Froggy the 13th Horror Podcast. But before we let you go, guess what? We've got a little game that Andrew once again has cooked up from his terrifying brain. And this game is called Who's Coming to the Seance? Andrew, tell us all about this game.
01:42:08
Speaker
All right. I am going to read you a ah little anecdote and then you're going to tell me, i' I'm going to give you three guesses. One one person at the seance is an actual seance or necromancer or something along those lines.
01:42:24
Speaker
Two other ones are popular horror movie characters. I need you to identify who is the actual seance member. i Wait, it doesn't. Say say say it again.
01:42:36
Speaker
I'm going to read you a statement. Okay. There are going to three choices of people. Okay. One of them is going to be an actual, like either medium, necromancer, somebody like along those lines. And two other ones are going to be horror movie characters. Okay. you have to identify So like this is a real life person.
01:42:51
Speaker
Yes, correct. Got Okay, gotcha. Okay. Okay, do it. I'll ease you into it because this this first one is a little easy. Okay. And then we'll get harder as I go along. So which one of these was a real-life seance figure?
01:43:03
Speaker
Okay. a Cora L.V. Scott, B, Captain Howdy, or C, Belasco? Can you spell C?
01:43:14
Speaker
B-E-L-A-S-C-O. Okay. And can you say the first one again, please? Cora Scott, right? cora Yeah, Cora L.V. Scott. The answer is C, right? The answer is A. The answer is or A. Okay.
01:43:27
Speaker
Cora L.V. Scott was a hugely popular 19th century trance medium who delivered public spirit lectures while allegedly channeling the dead. um Captain Howdy is obviously from The Exorcist. and Who was Belasco?
01:43:40
Speaker
ah was from the ah the evil entity haunting the house in the Legend of Hell House. Oh, okay. All right. Okay, gotcha. Okay. All right. Which one of these actually held seances attended by scientists and royalty? Okay. Is it is it A, Joseph Kerwin, B, Dr. Pretorius, or C, Daniel Douglas Holm?
01:44:06
Speaker
Can you spell the last name of the last one? h O M E. Um, is it a The answer is C, Daniel Douglas Holm. He was a 19th century medium whose seances were attended by aristocrats, skeptics, and scientists. you Who was Joseph Corwin?
01:44:26
Speaker
Joseph Corwin was a necromancer who resurrects the dead in adaptations of The Case of Charles Dexter Ward, which I believe is H.P. Lovecraft. Interesting. Okay. Dr. Pretorius is from The Bride of Frankenstein. Right.
01:44:41
Speaker
All right. Number three, which one of these, and which one, which name belongs to a real Victorian medium? Is it a Elise Rainier, B Mary Shaw or C Florence Cook?
01:44:56
Speaker
I feel like it's Yeah. The answer is C, Florence Cook, a Victorian medium who claimed to physically manifest a spirit named Katie King. um A, Elyse Rainier is the psychic from indian the Insidious films. And Mary Shaw is the murderous ventriloquist spirit who kills people in dead silence. God love her.
01:45:21
Speaker
All right, there's three more. are you ready? I'm ready. Which person made money selling photographs of quote unquote ghosts? Is it A, William Mumler, B, Arthur Kipps, or C, Seth Brundle?
01:45:37
Speaker
I have no idea on any of these. I'm going to say b It is A, William Mumbler. There's got to be a B in here somewhere. He was a photographer who sold spirit photographer photographs and was later exposed as a double exposure trick.
01:45:53
Speaker
Oh, wow. um Arthur Kipps was from The Vengeful Spirit and The Woman in Black. Okay. and Seth Brundle is from The Fly. Hated The Woman in Black. Ugh.
01:46:05
Speaker
All right, number five. Which one was a repeatedly caught cheating... During seances and stayed famous anyway. Okay. Is it A, Pinhead, B, Eusapia Poladino, or C,
01:46:22
Speaker
ah ah Reverend Kane? ah B. You're correct. Finally, is the answer. Usapia Palladino was a world famous medium exposed many times for trickery yet still defended by believers. Obviously, Pinhead is from Hellraiser and Reverend Kane is the evil guy in Poltergeist 2. What if I had said, oh, I guess Pinhead? yeah Listen, I was running out of people, okay? Okay.
01:46:52
Speaker
All right. And finally, your final one. Okay. Which of these helped turn seances into public entertainment? Was it The Tall Man, Charles Dexter Ward, or Leah Fox?
01:47:08
Speaker
Leah Fox. you you You picked up from my story earlier. Leah Fox, the Fox sisters. Obviously the tall man is from Phantasm and Charles Dexter Ward, if you would have just paid really close to attention, I'm sure you did, was already mentioned in the case of Charles Dexter Ward. Interesting.
01:47:28
Speaker
So that is who's coming to the seance. Well, Andrew, thank you yet again for another great game. Now, folks, that was episode 158. Thank you for listening. Now, look, if you want to support Friday the 13th, we are a proud independent podcast and you can support us.
01:47:46
Speaker
And we're poor. and Yeah. So like we can do it in a number of ways. um But here's the easiest way. You're going to go to www.frygay13.com slash support.
01:47:57
Speaker
And right there, you're going to see the link to our Patreon. And guess what? You can join for as little, pardon of me, as $1 a month. That's it. That's 50 cents an episode, people. It's $12 a year, my friend. So not that much. And that allows us to break even throughout the year. That's it. We don't make any money doing this. And honestly, we don't want to. So like, guess what? Unless we're making like, unless we're like making a million dollars, that's something different. one to point Unless we can quit our jobs, it's not really matters. did let's That's not going to happen. Right. So, so yeah, a dollar a month. That's great. Like I said, it helps us break even throughout the entire year. And we really appreciate our our patrons. We have some patrons that have been with us literally from the day we launched Patreon, which I don't even know how long ago that is. So thank you to the folks that that have been doing it for so long. And thank you in advance to the people who are thinking about it right now.
01:48:48
Speaker
Yeah. And I'll just say it again. Like if you just listened to the last hour and 50, whatever minutes, and you thought that that was something that you agreed with and that was something that you enjoyed and we filled up a little bit of your time, then maybe consider contributing and either either monetarily or by leaving a review. um Leaving a review is so easy.
01:49:08
Speaker
um It's been long time since we've gotten a fresh review so we can really use something We haven't had a review in like a year. I know. and And so if you could, if you know, you know, knock, knock, knock is this thing on. um Can you, can you just leave a review? That'd be, that'd be great. um Please. It helps us keep going because then we know people are actually listening.
01:49:30
Speaker
Yeah, man. Hey, and look, dude, it's a tough world out there. Like take care of yourselves, take care of each other, you know, like be, be good to people around you, please. that That's probably a good idea right now.
01:49:42
Speaker
And then, you know, after you get done doing all that and, you know, doing your chores and spending money and going to the movies and doing everything you need to do, you can go ahead and slayed.