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Son of A Nutcracker: Elf vs. The Santa Clause
281 Plays8 months ago
The best way to spread Christmas cheer, is debating movies for all to hear! For this year’s Christmas movie matchup, Rock & Rob decided to see whether The Santa Clause (1994) or Elf (2003) is the better holiday family classic. They bring in their resident Christmas cheer spreader, Abbie Rocklein, to help determine which one ends up on the nice list while the other becomes a cotton-headed ninny muggins. Listen in while pouring syrup on your spaghetti as important topics are discussed such as snowball velocity; Christmas movie connections; and for some reason Arthur Christmas (2011). Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays and I hope you find your dad!
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Transcript
Opening and Introductions
00:00:00
Speaker
Ladies and gentlemen, can I please have your attention?
00:00:09
Speaker
Brothers don't shake hands. Brothers gotta hug. Your voice is like a combination of Fergie and Jesus. You sound like your friend London. I don't want your life. I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul. Okay, a simple wrong would have done just fine. Merry Christmas, happy holidays and welcome to the movie showdown with Rock and Rob. My name is Rob Mansfield and with me, son of a nutcracker, it's Alex Rockline.
Houston Visit Recollections
00:00:35
Speaker
Hey, Rob, long time no see. I know Alex and I had quite a magical weekend. I flew down to Houston or H-town as us locals like to call it. Nobody calls it that, do they? I haven't heard anyone refer to it as that who that lives here. We hung out for a couple of days while I was down there for work. It was super fun hanging out with Alex, his wife, Abby, their daughter, Evelyn. We got to see the whole extended family. All right, anyway, let's jump into the rock question of the week.
Childhood Christmas Gifts Discussion
00:01:03
Speaker
What is the most memorable Christmas present you ever received? When I think back to childhood and Christmas, it was a very magical time. Well, I think every year I got a hockey stick because I would break mine. So that was always fun to come down and be like, sweet, new hockey stick. One year I did get one of those. It's not foosball, but it's like the hockey version, the tabletop one. I was obsessed with that. I played that all the time. Hockey stick is such a distinct shape that you would absolutely know immediately when you saw the presents.
00:01:28
Speaker
I think for me, the most memorable gift I got was a Nintendo 64 because my parents had hidden it. And so we opened all the gifts and I i had really wanted one. And I was like, Oh, you know, it's all right. Yeah. It's best Christmas ever. Yeah. You know, like, wait, what's this one? We have one more. I love that. And I was like, what? What? It was kind of almost like Christmas story where Alfie gets the BB gun and that was cool. I mean, I got it. My parents were great. We got a lot of awesome gifts, but that one stands out. Do you do that with your kids? The double back? Be like, oh, wait, there's one more. I haven't, but I'm tempted to this year about something. Nice. I don't think I can tell Krista because I know if I tell her what it is, she will say absolutely not.
00:02:09
Speaker
Perfect. Well, it is almost Christmas time. So Rock and I decided we needed to have another Christmas movie
Christmas Movie Matchup Introduction
00:02:15
Speaker
matchup. Last year we did four Christmases versus Fred claws and home alone versus Christmas vacation. But this year we really wanted to up the nostalgia factor and hit you with two Christmas family movie classics, the Santa Claus and elf. And we knew if we were going to debate Christmas movies, we had to bring in the Christmas movie expert and resident holiday cheer spreader. Welcome back to the show. Abby Rockline. Oh, thanks, Rob. That was a really nice introduction. Absolutely. I mean, this is an audio medium, but you should see the office background that Abby has. We've got stockings. We've got joy. We've got Christmas decor. It is like a Hallmark movie, but in like the best way, not like a cheesy way. It looks really good. Oh, thanks. It's okay. I don't mind the cheesy either. I want it to feel like a Hallmark movie. Well, let's jump right into, we got a lot to discuss. Alex, what movie are you repping this week?
'Elf' Movie Breakdown
00:03:07
Speaker
I will be representing Elf. Summary. A deranged man that eats gum off the street stocks a wealthy businessman. Nah, I'm just kidding, I'm just kidding. Sort of. A human who grew up in the North Pole and thinks he's an elf tries to acclimate to life in New York City to reconnect with his biological father. Released on November 7th, 2003. Do you know that love actually came out the exact same time? Really? Pretty crazy. Two classics. Well, I did not know that. Directed by one of our favorites, Jon Favreau. He's been on the show multiple times now. We love the faves.
00:03:40
Speaker
How can you not love the Fevs? Ron Howard and Steven Spielberg turned down the offer to direct, as did Terry Zweigoff, who directed Bad Santa instead. Little different direction there. Elf was written by David Berenbaum. This was his first script. He was actually raised Jewish, but his family always celebrated Christmas. The script was written first in 1993, and initially the studio wanted Chris Farley to play Buddy. Will Ferrell, who starred as Buddy the Elf and Adam McKay, both did uncredited rewrites. Will Ferrell and director John Favreau had frequent disagreements about the tone as he wanted a more PG-13, cynical comedy. Ferrell's feeling that he and Favreau didn't work well together is why the proposed sequel never happened. Will Ferrell turned down $29 million dollars to be in a sequel in late 2014.
00:04:29
Speaker
Wow. ah We can't gloss over the fact that they initially wanted Chris Farley to be Buddy the Elf. It's pretty amazing. We talk about all these alternate castings and movies. Don't you just wish you could see? When I was watching the movie, I was like, nobody else could play Buddy the Elf. Will Ferrell is just perfect in this role. I think Chris Farley could have done it. One name I did hear when it first was written, um Jim Carrey. I know that the writer had him in mind. And I love Jim Carrey, but I feel like it would have been like way goofier over the top. When they were initially in talks with having Chris Farley do it, the writer said, oh, it would have been a completely different movie. But honestly, I think Farley could have done it. Throw David Spade in there somewhere. Oh, you know he would have been in that movie. David Spade is Santa. No, I'm just kidding. Papa Elf. A little weird twist.
00:05:15
Speaker
Elf had a budget of $33 million. dollars Box office brought in $228.9 million. dollars Rotten tomato score of 86% and a Google audience score of 84%. Wow, that's a high rotten tomato score.
00:05:30
Speaker
For a Christmas comedy, yeah, I feel like that's very yeah that's good to see. Elfs, amazing. I think it's well deserved, but usually the movies we like do not have that score. Nice to see they got one right. Which means I will be representing the Santa Claus.
'The Santa Claus' Movie Breakdown
00:05:43
Speaker
Summary, a bad dad becomes Santa because of poor roof safety and spends the rest of the movie trying to convince people his son, whom is terrible at keeping secrets, has a very active imagination.
00:05:53
Speaker
released on November 11th, 1994, directed by John Pasquin. Pasquin was star Tim Allen's like preferred director. He did a bunch of home improvement episodes. He directed Allen in Jungle to Jungle and Joe Somebody. They initially wanted Home Alone director Christopher Columbus to do this movie, but he turned it down to make Mrs. Doubtfire.
00:06:13
Speaker
Which is interesting because both those movies have a similar tone. Absolutely. Written by Leo Benvenuti and Steve Rudnick, they also did Space Jam. Little movie, maybe you've heard of. Budget of $22 million. dollars Box Office brought in $190.3 million. dollars This has a rotten tomato score of 73% and a Google audience score of 92%, which is one of the highest we have ever had.
00:06:39
Speaker
Besides being two classic Christmas movies for our generation, these movies have almost opposite premises that make them fun to showdown. So one is about a North Pole person acclimating to the real world, while the other is about a real world person acclimating to the North Pole.
00:06:56
Speaker
Alright, you want to do the best friend challenge? Yeah. I'm in it, right? Oh yeah, you're in it. Can't be a guest and I'll do best friend challenge.
Top Christmas Movies Lists
00:07:03
Speaker
We have a history of me matching up better with our guests. I don't match up with anyone. Best friend challenge, top five Christmas movies. Alex, start us off. What's your number five? The Santa Claus. Mine is also a Santa Claus. My number five is four Christmases. We didn't plan this, by the way. That's fine.
00:07:21
Speaker
That's fine. It's fine. What's your number four? My number four is Miracle on 34th Street. Which one? Ah, the old one. The original? Yeah. We're both pretty old at this point. What about you, Abby? Home alone. My number four is Elf. Interesting. Number three. This is a ah newer one that came out, but it's Arthur Christmas. You are the biggest stan for Arthur Christmas that is out there.
00:07:43
Speaker
Are you getting paid royalties for people downloading it? Every time I say the word Arthur Christmas, yeah I get money from Arthur Christmas. Nice. To say Arthur Christmas. All right, Abby, what about you? um Mine is also Arthur Christmas. Oh my gosh. This is ridiculous. It's so funny. I just love British humor. It's not a surprise you guys are married. because We have great taste in movies. We watched this movie in the summer. um It's like what we...
00:08:06
Speaker
All right. My number three is the Santa Claus. I love it. And you'll learn why soon enough. My number two is Elf. Okay. Abby, I hate you. I hate all of you. oh my gosh My number two is Die Hard. I've had a feeling Die Hard would be on your list. I'm wearing a hoodie that says Die Hard is a Christmas movie to all our listeners out there. I agree. I'm i'm on Team Die Hard. Now, look, I do want to say to our listeners, just because Abby ranked elf higher than the Santa Claus doesn't necessarily mean that elf is going to beat the Santa Claus in this showdown. We design our rounds to put it on even playing field. So it's not always your favorite movie that wins. So it very that was not a spoiler. yeah Don't turn it off. All right. My number one is Home Alone. What about you, Abby? A Christmas story. All right. My number one is welcome to the party. Home Alone. Nice. Welcome to the party is a diehard line. I don't know why I said it right there. He's like, welcome to the party, pal. Anyway. But my number one is also Home Alone, Alex. So while you and Abby matched like 87 movies, you and I matched number one. And that's all that matters. so That's that's all we always get. It's worth five points, though. So, you know, I can tell you guys have spent a lot of Christmases together. We have. I almost put hot frosty on there. I
'Elf' Cast and Dynamics Discussion
00:09:23
Speaker
should have done it.
00:09:24
Speaker
That was just outside my top five. All right, you want to jump into this? Yeah, I'm ready. do it Let's start off with round one best cast. Will Ferrell is back and he plays Buddy the Elf. I know we've talked about it, but I really can't think of anyone else who would pull off Buddy the Elf quite like Will Ferrell does. No, you need that innocence and almost being extremely dumbly goofy, but in a way where you believe him. Like you don't think it's an act.
00:09:53
Speaker
James Cahn, he plays Walter Hobbs. ah Will Ferrell said that Cahn barely had to act in the film because he was genuinely annoyed at Will Ferrell the whole time. He also revealed that Cahn outright told him he was not funny and that his acting was over the top.
00:10:08
Speaker
He did say, though, that when Khan saw the finished film, he said that he understood the energy Farrell needed to put into his performance and praised him for it. Will Ferrell said that they had a great time together and got along well. I mean, James Khan is like iconic, serious actor. It is interesting to see him in this kind of movie, which he plays that kind of character really well. You know, you need it in this one. He fits so well.
00:10:29
Speaker
Gary Shandling was offered the role, but turned it down and Bill Murray and Dan Aykroyd were considered until Khan agreed to do it. Zoey Deschanel, she plays Jovi. She was casting this role because she could sing. It's really hard to see her and not think of Jess from New Girl. Yeah, Abby, when this movie came on, you're like, oh, so weird seeing her with blonde hair.
00:10:48
Speaker
And no bangs. Like, I feel like her bangs are her signature. What kind of name is Jovi? Do you think her parents were big fans of like Bon Jovi? I mean, it's very possible. If she's living in New York, maybe she's from New Jersey. Yeah. But that's your middle name, right, Rob? My middle name is Bon Jovi. Right, right, right. That's the masculine version of Jovi. Correct. OK. The studio wanted Katie Holmes to play Jovi, but she declined. I like Zoe. Me too. Katie Holmes would have been a weird vibe, I feel like. Another name is back, Mary Steenburgen. She plays Emily Hobbs. Step Brothers. Bob Newhart. He plays Papa Elf. Bob Newhart claimed that of all the fan mail he received, usually half of it was for his role in Elf. Yeah, I believe that. What is Bob Newhart famous for? The Bob Newhart Show. The Bob Newhart Show.
00:11:30
Speaker
Faison Love plays Wanda, the gimbal's Christmas area manager. And if you're wondering why his name is Wanda, well, that is because Wanda Sykes was originally slated to play this role. But she backed out at the last minute, which is why his name tag says Wanda.
00:11:45
Speaker
Daniel Tay plays Michael, who is Buddy's half-brother. rubb ah You probably noticed this, but he is wearing a Wayne Krebet New York Jets jersey in this movie. Yes, because apparently having an absentee father wasn't a sad enough story. They also had to make him a Jets fan. Boom. You're roasted. Sick burn. Peter Dinklage plays Miles Finch. Peter Dinklage from Game of Thrones lore. Pretty funny. I do love what I find his little notebook and it's just filled with, like,
00:12:15
Speaker
children's story ideas like yeah this one's about a peach Will Ferrell's brother Patrick plays the security guard on the right hand side when Buddy is thrown out of the Empire State Building and director John Favreau's son plays young Buddy sitting on Papa Elf's knee nice another fun face another old Christmas movie cameo here we get Peter Billingsley cameos as an elf He is from, of course, a Christmas story. And he, Jon Favreau and Mary Steenburgen all also appeared together in another Christmas movie we covered on this show for Christmas. Great Christmas movie. Maybe I'm the only one that thinks that. I really enjoyed that movie. Krista, myself, her sister, shout out Kayla. I know you don't listen. And Kayla's husband, Brian. Shout out, Brian. I know you also don't listen. We're the only four people I know that love that movie. For Christmases. There you go.
00:13:01
Speaker
In the Santa Claus, we have Tim, the tool man Taylor. No, sorry. That's Tim Allen as Scott Calvin, AKA Santa
'The Santa Claus' Cast Insights
00:13:09
Speaker
Claus. Disney broke their no ex felons in Disney movies rule by hiring him. And if you don't know what he is a felon for, just Google it.
00:13:17
Speaker
This was like the height of Tim Allen. So for one week in November of 1994, Tim Allen had the number one movie at the box office, the number one rated television show, Home Improvement, and the number one New York Times bestselling book, Don't Stand Too Close to a Naked Man. I mean, that's the trifecta right there. So Tim Allen in order to transform into Santa Claus in the movie underwent four to five hours of makeup per day and prosthetic applications, and then two hours to take it all off.
00:13:46
Speaker
while having to wear multiple fat suits. Can you say fat suits? We're not body shaming, but isn't that what they're called? Large suits? No, fat suits. Everyone knows what that is. Let's show this term. And it just made me feel so old realizing that he was supposed to be playing a character that was 38 years old in this. Wow. I was like, wow, that's basically our age now, so. That is my age. Oh, yeah. Do we know how old Tim Allen actually was? I think it was 40 or 41 when it was filmed.
00:14:11
Speaker
He just seems so much older than I do. Yeah, he really does. I think also because like I always associate Tim Allen with my dad a little bit because they're have very similar mannerisms. And obviously my dad is just older than me. So like I said, this was the height of tool time. And in fact, there are many tool time references in the Santa Claus.
00:14:30
Speaker
So Scott repeatedly grunts, oh no, in the Tim Taylor voice. When Scott is first touring the North Pole, he picks up a tool belt and holds it to his waist. Then when Scott reluctantly agrees to put on Santa's clothes, there's a stealth pun where he says, well, I hope you're happy, Comet. I hope you're happy. But most importantly, I hope the guy that lives here is a Taylor. When he sets the Turkey on fire, he turns to Charlie and says, that is exactly why you want a high quality fire extinguisher right in the kitchen, which is something that he would often do in tool time. He'd have an accident turn, try to take his accident and make it a teaching moment. And then when Scott and Charlie are driving the sleigh on the road, the truck they go by and ask about I-94 is driven by Jimmy Labriola, who plays Benny on home improvement.
00:15:15
Speaker
Lastly, when Scott Calvin is ending his first run as Santa, his ho ho ho is done just like the Tim Taylor signature grunt. So the original choice for the role of Scott Calvin was Bill Murray, who turned it down and then Chevy Chase was considered, but couldn't do it because of scheduling conflicts. Bill Murray would have been interesting, probably a little edgier. Yeah, I think a little edgier.
00:15:36
Speaker
We have Eric Lloyd as Charlie. I used to think Charlie was a bad listener until I had kids and then I realized he's just a kid. He is a very annoying kid at times in this movie. Yeah, I agree. Judge Reinhold. He plays Neil. I do like Judge Reinhold as an actor. He always comes across as like pompous a little bit in most of his roles, but he's really funny.
00:15:55
Speaker
David Krumholz is back. He plays Bernard. Bernard is awesome. Wendy Krewson plays Laura, Charlie's mom and Scott's ex-wife. Renee Zellweger, Andy McDowell, and Nicole Kidman were some of the people that auditioned for the part. Then we have Peter Boyle. He has a very small role as Scott's boss, but he also appears in the second and third Santa Claus films as Father Time, which is interesting that they brought back.
00:16:21
Speaker
the same actor to play a different role in the franchise. I'm sure there's some sort of, like, theory. I was just gonna say there has to be. The director, John Pasquin, cameos. He is Santa number six in the police lineup. He's the one that turns the wrong direction when they say turn. Did you do any Seinfeld or Friends for this week? I have a couple. John Favreau appears in both Friends in Seinfeld, which we talked about. Kyle Gass appears in both, and then Judge Reinhold is in Seinfeld as a very famous one-off character, the Close Talker. All right, Abby, which movie has the better cast? I've been debating this the whole time. They're both so good. I think I'm going to go with The Santa Claus because I just really love Tim Allen.
00:16:59
Speaker
Nice. It's interesting to look back on these movies in the current time period, but if you were to take it at its time, you know, Will Ferrell was a big SNL star, but he wasn't a movie star.
'Elf's' North Pole and NYC Scenes
00:17:09
Speaker
Tim Allen was one of the biggest actors on the planet yeah at that time. The early 90s ABC TGIF lineup was ridiculously popular. So we've got the Santa Claus taking round one. That leads us into round two, best moments.
00:17:27
Speaker
We have to talk about the opening, the music that gets us into the mood. It's so Christmasy, just puts you in the right headspace for a Christmas movie. That's such an important part of Christmas movies. The intro is great too. When we have Bob Newhart as Papa Elf, he acts as the narrator for the most part, giving a little bit of a rundown about how he's an elf and what elves do. And I love the part when he says there's three jobs for elves. mending shoes while the cobbler is asleep. Being a Keebler elf, essentially, so making cookies at a tree, which he said is very dangerous to have a stove inside a tree during the dry season. The fire that is so funny in that part. And then the last one is being one of Santa's elves or as he calls it, you're in the show. Yeah. so yeah
00:18:07
Speaker
It's really good. It's a funny way to give a little backstory to the lore that this movie is going to be telling you. Yeah. Like everybody knows what the EL Fudge Keebler elf cookies are. And I like to like the opening is kind of, you know, like they're opening a book and then you realize at the very end, it ties back. Yeah.
00:18:24
Speaker
So really the the first part of this movie, I don't know how much of the movie it takes up, but we can just call it like Buddy in the North Pole. I love the pictures of him, like when he's playing basketball, just like dunking on everyone. Yeah. And the fact that he doesn't know that he's human. We get some classic quotes in this sequence. That's where you first hear the best way to spread Christmas cheer is singing loud for all to hear when they're in the classroom. They're like yeah learning the elf rules. Yeah. They have to recite the elf rules.
00:18:51
Speaker
They're talking about like the Christmas spirit and how the sleigh flies. Who do they think puts all their toys under the tree? Well, there's a rumor floating around that the parents do it. That's ridiculous.
00:19:04
Speaker
That's shocking. ah Delivered only how Will Ferrell can. And then, you know, we see him making his etch-a-sketches, yeah which I love that the etch-a-sketches is heavily featured in this movie. He's so bad at it. And Ming Ming, right? He's got like that scroll he pulls out. He's like, oh, buddy, how many have you made today? 85. And everyone stops and looks at him. I don't know. For me, I'm like, wow, that's a lot. I know. i was like good for you man And then what does he say that puts you only? 915 off your coat or something yeah, so yeah This is when he calls himself a cotton-headed ninny muggins and everyone's like oh Which apparently is like the worst thing you could say is enough I know this is a family show, but are we gonna keep that in Rob? We're not gonna keep that I won't beep it is it bad that I call my kids cotton-headed ninny muggins
00:19:47
Speaker
So when he's testing the toys, the jack-in-the-box, such a funny part. Every time one pops up, I mean, it still makes me laugh, his reaction. I love when he gets past the one, it's like, that the the and it doesn't pop. He like smiles and he starts writing and it pop. I always wondered, like, did he know when those were going to pop? I'm pretty sure I read that Favreau used the remote control to trigger the jack-in-the-boxes to get real reactions from Ferrell. Perfect. So while he's doing this, he he can overhear the elves being like, can't believe he doesn't know he's a human. And that's when it hits him. And the screen goes all wonky and he collapses on top of that one. Oh, it's so funny. I feel like some of the filming of this movie is underappreciated. Yeah, totally. And then so he runs out and he's like, Oh, I can't, like my whole life is a lie. And he runs into Leon the snowman, which we got to talk about this claymation characters. The filmmakers actually hired a company called the Kyoto brothers who did the stop motion for it. And they wanted to mimic those old rank and bass movies from, you know, like Santa Claus and Rudolph. They said that the film, it had to have like that feel outside in order to make like this magical land work, which I thought was really cool. I like how they didn't use CGI. And then I don't know about you, but this might be my favorite line in the whole movie. So he's off to go find his dad. So he's going off to New York and he jumps on the little ice float and he's going away. And then the narwhal comes up, which I read that they wanted the tusk to come up out of the water and mimic the Chrysler building in New York. Bye, buddy. Hope you find your dad. Thanks, Mr. Narwhal. Bye, buddy. Hope you find your dad. Which was delivered by John Favreau, but he gets me every time. That line is so good.
00:21:24
Speaker
We just say it randomly around our house sometimes. Like if we're leaving the house. Bye. Hope you find your dad. This really brings us into the next section, which is buddy in New York city. So, you know, once we get into New York, the colors change, like the way it's film changes a little bit. So when he first gets there, you know, he's kind of inching through the Lincoln tunnel and he comes out and he's in a park and then he finds a raccoon. He doesn't give it a hug, but does not go well for him. The whole montage of him going around New York is awesome. So it was all done Gorilla style where they just kind of went around with him and someone with a camera just filming people and like their reactions are genuine. Yeah. Even that part where he's crossing the street with the guy that's wearing the red sweatshirt and he's like, Santa, like that guy was just walking across the street. He wasn't planted. And the Rule of Feral's reaction was perfect. Like he plays right off of him. I love in that montage when he sees the coffee shop world's greatest cup of coffee and he goes, you did it. Congratulations.
00:22:17
Speaker
World's best cup of coffee. You did it. Yeah, there's a lot of great parts in that montage. You know, he eats the gum after Santa tells him not to. And yeah he goes around the revolving door and pukes. You know, he's taken those flyers from the guys handing him out and he's waving at that one guy. He's calling a cab. But the scene where he goes through the Lincoln Tunnel, where he's like pushed against the wall in real life, there were actually some minor traffic accidents that occurred because people were just so distracted when they saw him. That's a pretty dangerous place to film. Like those were not actors and stunt people driving the car. No, absolutely. He makes his way to Empire State Building, gets in the elevator, and once he realizes the buttons light up, he just, I love that he does all the buttons. Ooh, it looks like a Christmas tree. How annoyed do you think that guy was? That guy was probably like, get me out of here. I would have gotten off at the next floor. I'll take the stairs. So then he gets up to Walter's office. They think he's a Christmas gram, so that's why he gets let in, so then he starts singing a song to him. How's that song go, Alex? Can you sing it? I don't think I can sing it. I love you. I love you. I love you. I love you.
00:23:17
Speaker
I like to whisper too. yeah That's where he gets the idea to go to gimbals, and I love the Christmas music starts playing and immediately he gets hit by a taxi. He gets hit and the music like cuts it out. It just stops, yeah.
00:23:28
Speaker
berlin and andta and Yes, it's very well done. This brings us to what I would say are the gimbals scenes. The montage there is pretty great when there's the perfume and he tries to eat it. Oh, fruit spray. He doesn't know when escalator works, so he tries to get on that. That cracked Wes up. When he's in the bathroom, he pops up and he's like, have you seen these toilets? They're ginormous.
00:23:48
Speaker
This made that word popular, right? It must have, because they do have that scene when he's in the North Pole when he's sitting on the toilet at his house and it's very small. And then he's looking for a gift for his dad and he sees the special someone gift, which is like the Santa lingerie. When he goes up to the Christmas section, we have a bunch of really famous quotes, like right in a row. When he gets up there, he's like, wow, what is this? Faison says, this is the North Pole. He's like, no, it's not.
00:24:11
Speaker
No, it's not which immediately goes to like why are you smiling like that? I just like to smile smiling. It's my favorite which yeah again, everyone knows that line and then okay people tomorrow morning ten oh by god I know him. He follows that up. He sees Jovi, right? And he says something to her about singing. And she's like, I can sing. I just don't. And that's when he's like, it's easy. See, I'm in a store and I'm singing. Then yeah, there's no singing North Pole. I think that's when he also tells her the best way to spread Christmas cheer is singing loud in the balcony, which comes back again. So it's important that they make that singing connection now.
00:24:51
Speaker
So he stays after the store clothes and we have they have another montage of him decorating the etch of sketches back. He has drawn the Mona Lisa perfectly on it. And then he builds like the skyline out of Legos, which interesting enough, the skyline that he builds at gimbals contains many Philadelphia skyscrapers. Writer David Baron bomb is from Philadelphia. And in real life, gimbals was a prominent Philadelphia department store. And it was the sponsor of the country's first Thanksgiving parade in 1920. I had never heard of the gimbals till this movie.
00:25:20
Speaker
I thought it was fictional. I did, too. I was like, oh, they didn't get the rights to Macy's. That's what I thought. So then Jovi, the next morning, she's already at the store. She's taking a shower. She's singing. And he's like, well, this is my chance to sing with her. So he kind of creeps in the bathroom on her, not realizing that that's frowned upon phase on. He's got a couple of great lines when he's talking to both of them. He tells him that the code word is Santa's got a brand new bag. Yep. Yeah. While they're talking, Jovi's making her ribbon curls just the way he says six inch ribbon curls.
00:25:46
Speaker
Six inches, six inches. And then Santa comes, but as we know, it is not the real Santa Claus. And so he's got to test him. He's like, what song did I sing for you on your birthday? Happy birthday. He says you sit on a throne of lies and also you smell like beef and cheese, which that's what I was saying. It's mostly.
00:26:04
Speaker
One like in between scene is when Walter takes him to the doctor to give him a paternity test because he just, like the whole movie, he just asks questions and he just doesn't not stop talking. He's eating the cotton balls, which thankfully in real life, they were not real cotton balls. They were actually cotton candy that had not been dyed. And so he's kind of in the waiting room afterwards. He's talking to that little girl and he says that my finger has a heartbeat back at Walter's apartment. You know, they're all having dinner together. I love how he talks about the elves. They stick to the four main food groups. Can you name them candies, candy canes, candy corns and syrup? Yeah. The food is just absolutely disgusting. That breakfast concoction he makes. Yeah.
00:26:42
Speaker
goes in with his hand and just mixes it all up. Yeah, even the spaghetti for breakfast and then put syrup on. She takes a bite. I don't know if she actually eats it, but I don't know. I think it could be good. Spaghetti is like a carb. You put syrup on waffles. Yeah, I kind of want to try it. It's like a mind over matter thing. I just my brain tells me that that's going to be gross. I really want to try it. I think you should film it and tell us how it goes.
00:27:07
Speaker
That's some good content. Yeah. I ate what Buddy ate. No, no, I'm not doing the whole like all that mixed together. I'm just talking about a little bit of spaghetti with some syrup on it. All right. Try it. Next time I have spaghetti, I'm going to do it. Well, the scene when Buddy eats all those different candies and pastries with the spaghetti had to be shot twice because Will Ferrell vomited the first time. I believe it. Um, snowball scene. I love the snowball scene. He waits for, when he says Michael, right, he his little brother, he's like, I've been waiting for you for five hours. I saw a dog today.
00:27:37
Speaker
I have good news. I saw a doctor. And then they started getting pelted by snowballs. Luckily, Buddy the elf is an expert snowball maker. So he's like, start making snowballs. And he's like, Oh, I made one. Meanwhile, he's made like four dozen snowballs and he is just outstanding at throwing snowballs. Alex, I did a little podcast math for you. Oh, I'm ready for this. You ever wonder how hard Buddy the Elf was throwing those snowballs? Yeah, of course I was. So I'm not a mathematician, but I tried to run some calculations. And so I was looking at the kids on the bridge that he was pelting. And I estimated that that bridge was about 90 feet away and 15 feet in the air.
00:28:10
Speaker
So using the Pythagorean theorem, oo a squared plus b squared equals c squared, I determined, and by I, I mean the internet, determined that that was about 91.24 feet away when you do that calculation. So then I had to time how fast a snowball was getting from buddy's hand to hitting those kids on the bridge. And the average, it was about 0.37 seconds.
00:28:33
Speaker
So when you try to calculate the velocity, which is V equals D over T or velocity equals distance over time, Buddy the elf was throwing those snowballs at about one hundred and sixty eight point one three miles an hour. Wow. No wonder why that kid wouldn't write down. He should have been pitching for the Yankees. He is mystery solved. All right. So Buddy now is going to work with Walter. He comes in, he answers the phone for him. He's like, Buddy the elf, what's your favorite color?
00:29:02
Speaker
That's a great line. Very classic. line There's a couple of good lines when he's in the office, when he meets Francisco Francisco. who That's fun to say. And then when he tells Deb that she's got a great face and needs to be on a Christmas card, he does not really do well in the office. So Walter sends them down to the mail room, which is where he confronts the guy that's supposed to be 26. Yeah. Who is putting liquor in his coffee, but he thinks it's syrup. So he takes it, puts it in his and they both get hammered, which is a very funny part. But the dance that Will Ferrell does. Yeah. For the longest time, I used to try to imitate that at weddings.
00:29:33
Speaker
The actor's name is Mark Acheson. He plays the mailroom friend. He had auditioned for the role of a trucker. Now that part was cut from the film, but because of his audition tape, Jon Favreau cast him in this role in the mailroom. Jon Favreau got notes from the studio pointing out that he was clearly not 26 and Favreau responded that yes, this was why it was funny. Of course he's not 26. I can say when I was like a kid, I never picked up on that joke. No. But it is like now when you watch it and he's like, I'm 26 years old. Like he makes a very clear point to say it. You got your whole life ahead of you. Yeah. So Buddy and Jovi go out for a date. They have a great time. That's a fun little scene, but I don't know if it's supposed to be the next day. I don't, the timing in this movie doesn't really make sense to me, but Miles finches in and Buddy comes in and he's like, I'm in love and I don't care who knows it. And then he sees Peter Dinklage and we run into some issues. I can't tell because it's a movie about elves and they make a lot of short jokes at Peter Dinklage's expense. Now, Buddy does not intend them that way, but is this offensive? I mean, you would think if it was Peter Dinklage probably would have said no, but I don't know, maybe not. No, I mean, knowing Peter Dinklage, some of the roles he's been in, I feel like he was fine with it. He's from New Jersey, by the way. I don't know if you knew that the dink. Yeah. Yeah, we go way back. We'll call them the dink. Are you serious?
00:30:49
Speaker
Us that grew up in the church know him as the dink. Okay. All right. So Peter Dinklage has dwarfism. So to Buddy, he looks like an elf. So he starts calling him an elf and which yeah, it's, I mean, it's pretty offensive, but like he's like, call me off one more time. Ooh, he's an angry elf. What does he say? i have more action in a day than you have in your entire life or something. Oh, man. I like when this is before this scene, but when they're talking him on the phone and he has very strict specifications. Yeah, his demands for if he's coming yeah for what his vehicle that picks him up, it must be 70, 71 degrees. Yeah, I like that. From here on, we got the ending. We have Santa coming in the news lady. She's reporting and the guy hits on her.
00:31:28
Speaker
What's the point of that part? It's I don't know. He's like, I just think you're the best, Charlotte. That guy's in VPs in Brooklyn Nine-Nine. He's just like a really funny character, just like the way he says it. He's like, yeah, your eyes tell the story. But yeah, so just like casually drops in like these like little remarks. Yeah. So then Christmas spirit is down. So Jovi is like, well, best way to spread Christmas cheer is sing loud so all can hear. So she starts singing. Christmas spirit's going up. I love the one specific part when the dad's not singing. Michael calls him out. He starts singing and the sleigh comes up and behind him. Yeah.
00:31:57
Speaker
And just the ending too, when we find out that the whole thing comes full circle, Walter starts his own company and his first book is the story of Bun v. Elf. Alright, my favorite moments from the Santa
Iconic Scenes in 'The Santa Claus'
00:32:08
Speaker
Claus. Once again, good music in the opening. It opens up at their office Christmas party. Really sets the mood. Very important for a Christmas movie to do that.
00:32:18
Speaker
So then he's late to get back to his house. He's supposed to be meeting his son there. He's calling and leaving a message for his ex-wife, pretending that the reason he's going to be late is because he is stuck in traffic and it shows you there's not a single person on the road except for him. But I love the part when he pretends to yell at some lady in traffic and he's like, and that's not very ladylike.
00:32:40
Speaker
He gets back to the house. Charlie's there. This is just an aside, but Charlie has a dinosaur pillow and I had that pillow as a kid. Yeah. Scott's pettiness versus Neil, you know, the ex-husband verse stepfather. All of that stuff is so funny and it's exactly how I would be if I was in that situation. I mean, everything Scott says is just a dig at Neil in every way possible. So then it's Christmas Eve. Scott opens up the cookbook because he's going to make a nice Christmas Eve meal and doesn't realize that cooking a turkey will take him four hours. so you see him open up and he's like mouths like four
00:33:14
Speaker
hours cuts to the next scene and it shows like a really beautiful dinner spread. And every time I see this, it tricks me. I'm always like, wow, how do you pull that off? And then you realize that it's him like watching a how to video. His oven, the turkey just lights on fire. And then he keeps making more comments about Neil and Charlie says that he likes Neil because he listens to me. And then Scott says, yeah. And then he charges you for it because Neil is a psychiatrist.
00:33:41
Speaker
So then they go to Denny's and it's just all the sad dads just sitting around with their kids. And then that leads into Christmas Eve night. They read the night before Christmas. Then all of a sudden Charlie wakes up because he hears banging on the roof and that whole scene is great. It slowly starts to build the tension. I remember the first time I saw it and you're just like, what's going to happen? What's going to happen? And then it just paces itself faster and faster and faster and faster and faster. You really get caught and hung up in it. Scott goes outside, Santa falls off the roof. into the snow. Then Scott turns to Charlie. He's like, do you know how to call 911? He's like, yeah, 911. That's like a common joke in movies. But I always think it's funny. And then Charlie's like, you killed him. The Santa just does that weird a little wayn wave. Yeah. And then just vanishes. and Scott's just like, he's naked somewhere because the closer who left there is just a good Tim Allen line. Good delivery. Scott puts the suit on. The reindeer are there. Comet might be the funniest person in this movie. It might be. He's very expressive. He's really funny. So then he goes and he starts delivering presents and it's really funny. The canoe scene is really cool where he pulls the canoe out of the bag and it just keeps coming. The whole first 30 minutes of this movie is just awesome. That's literally from like the start, that Christmas party to this part. So then Scott flies away. We're
00:35:04
Speaker
When I was a kid, I didn't know what a CAT scan was. Nope. Thought it had to do with cats. So then they get to the literal North Pole. This pole comes out of the ground. And it's cool. That part's fun. We meet Bernard and, you know, some other stuff happens, but we'll jump over to the career day scene. The fireman is up in the front of the class and he's saying like such a somber thing. And the teacher is just like, we're sorry about your partner, like such a... A depressing thing to say. And there's literally like an astronaut standing in the back. I don't know if you noticed that. There's like someone in an astronaut suit. I don't know if I noticed that. There's two like prominent scenes where you see Scott starting to physically transform into Santa. The first is that beard growing scene where it grows back gray. I always thought that was like cool how they did it, obviously a CGI. But for 1994, that's good. For as bad as other CGI is in this movie. Yeah. That part is not. That's good.
00:35:54
Speaker
So just gonna hit on a couple things pretty quick. When he goes to his work lunch, which is a very awkward scene, and they're like, whoa, you put on a lot of weight. And he's like, I got stung by a bee. And they're like, a bee? And he was like, a big bee. A big bee. That's like the Dark Knight thing. ah It was a big dog. Yeah.
00:36:11
Speaker
The soccer scene makes me so uncomfortable. Scott just goes trying to watch Charlie play some soccer. All these kids line up and then start sitting on his lap. I know he's Santa, but like still, no, you don't let random kids sit on your lap. No. Another line he's walking. He's starting to say like, not nice, nice to people as he's walking past him and then some like tall blonde walks by and he's like, Veronica, very nice. He's like, in your dreams, slave boy.
00:36:36
Speaker
a scene is not it's not a great scene, but it it is a very sad scene is when he loses custody when they're at the court hearing and all of that. And then you just see Charlie's just devastated about it. And so is he. It's so interesting. They don't really make movies like this anymore, where it was like very family friendly, funny. And then it got like serious in the middle there for a while. And it was like pushing the envelope. And it gets to this scene, which is like a downer for a family movie. And then the end picks it back up. But They really break you down. They did a good job with like, he's Santa and like everyone else around him is like, like you're crazy. Yeah. But it wasn't like goofy. It was like, you need help and you feel bad because like, obviously we can see everyone in the movie. Like we have that point of view, but this is just like where it like hits home. Yes. Oh my goodness. If I was in this situation, I would think this guy's crazy. A hundred percent. Who's going to believe him except for a kid.
00:37:26
Speaker
So then he goes, he sees Charlie on Christmas Eve, they leave eve and they go to the North Pole. Laura and Neil call the cops cause their kid is missing and it's like the montage of the North Pole and Santa getting ready for Christmas Eve with the cops going around and arresting everybody. So that's when we get that gimme all your loving dance. Um, new improvement in the sleigh was the CD cookie cocoa dispenser. Krista loves that part, but it would be pretty cool to have a cookie cocoa dispenser in your vehicle.
00:37:56
Speaker
So when Charlie and Scott return to the North Pole for this scene, Bernard introduces the tech savvy elf, Quinton, who proceeds to tell Santa about all the new gadgets. This is a nod to the James Bond character, Q, who is like the technology master for him. Yeah, I love that. Finally, the cops catch Scott. They put Santa in jail. And that's when we get the ELFS scene, the highly specialized elves. And they go and they break him out of jail by using tinsel. If you like this part, you would like Arthur Christmas.
00:38:24
Speaker
That's another $2 for you, right? For Earth or Christmas? Earth or Christmas, Earth or Christmas, Earth or Christmas. I like when they're interrogating Scott and they keep asking him his name and he keeps saying all the different names for Santa Claus. Name, Chris Crangle. Name, Santa Claus. Name, Per Noel. Bible, Natale. Pears Nicole. Topo Shishio. Topo Shishio.
00:38:53
Speaker
Apparently that's an imitation of Ed Sullivan, who used to say that about a small Italian mouse puppet that was on his show. Oh, nice. I just always thought Topo Gigio was, I don't know, some other country's version of Santa. That's what I assumed. Then we get Bernard showing back up the house. I love when he says nice sweater to Neil, because the entire time everyone makes fun of Neil's sweaters and Bernard's like, is that one of ours? Did we make that? He's like checking the tag. Bernard is great. What does Neil say? He's drawing us into his delusions.
00:39:20
Speaker
So then Neil and Laura start to believe through the different actions of Scott. And when he leaves, he throws down the two toys that they always wanted when they were kids and never got. So it's a mystery date game and a Oscar Mayer Wiener whistle. So pathetic. But very fitting for him. Oh, yeah. Then it ends on a happy note, and Christmas is fine, and Santa is fine, and the family is fine. And then we get two more movies and a TV show. Good for them.
00:39:47
Speaker
All right, Abby, before you make your decision, Alex, like what kind of connections you got this week?
Connections with Other Christmas Classics
00:39:51
Speaker
Yeah, Rob, actually, Elf has a lot of connections and nods to other Christmas movies. The biggest nod is to the classic Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer stop-motion movie from 1964. The elves' costumes are called back to the elves and Rudolph, with Buddy wearing the same one as Hermes the Misfit Elf. Stop-motion pioneer Ray Harryhausen also voiced the polar bear club, saying goodbye to Buddy as he left the North Pole, while Leon the Snowman closely resembles Sam the Snowman from the Rudolph movie. The elf Ming Ming, who appears in the beginning of the movie, is played by Peter Billingsley, who starred as Ralphie Parker in A Christmas Story. When she first meets Buddy, Jovi asks, did Crumpet put you up to this? Crumpet was David Sedaris' character's name when he worked as a Macy's elf, as recounted in The Santa Land Diaries. Also, David Sedaris' sister, Amy Sedaris, appeared in the film as Deb. It may also be a reference to Mount Crumpet from the Dr. Seuss Christmas story, How the Grinch Stole Christmas. The Christmas tree being too big for the living room is a nod to National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation. Buddy and Jovi's baby name, Susie, is visible on her hat with a large snowflake at the end of the movie. She was obviously named after Susie Snowflake, a very early Claymation character from back in the 50s, as well as Buddy's deceased mother, Susan Wells.
00:41:05
Speaker
The scene in which Buddy is on the bridge thinking about the unthinkable is a nod to It's a Wonderful Life when George Bailey does a similar thing. The snowball fight is a reference to the snowball fight in A Christmas Story. Ed Asner plays Santa Claus after having played him in The Story of Santa Claus and all of The Other Reindeer. Lastly, while not directly a Christmas movie, even though it takes place around Christmas, when Buddy makes the paper snowflake at Gimbals, it is a nod to Edward Scissorhands actions anytime he cuts anything. I did love that.
00:41:35
Speaker
Well, that's cool. I have some connections from the Santa Claus to other Christmas movies. So Scott watches Miracle on 34th Street, the OG, which is also a Christmas movie that revolves around a man that no one believed was really Santa Claus. Also later in the movie when the kids are shouting, let him go. As Scott is being arrested, that's the same thing the kids shout in Miracle 34th Street when Santa in that movie is being arrested.
00:42:00
Speaker
When Scott and Charlie arrive at the North Pole the first time, an elf enters the code 1239 into a keypad which allows the sleigh to be lowered. Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer was created in December of 1939, hence 1239 1239.
00:42:15
Speaker
when Scott Calvin steps on the scale to check his weight. It reads 192. This is a reference to the Christmas song, which says two kids from 1 to 92, which is interesting because when I did see 192 and then looked at what he looked like, I was like, there's no way that that's 192.
00:42:32
Speaker
Finally, the police use a chalkboard to draw a layout of the neighborhood to capture Scott. There's a note on it about the neighbors being in Florida. This is a nod to Home Alone 1, which was also set in the Chicago area, and the Murphy family, the McAllister's neighbors who went away to Florida, or Home Alone 2 when the McAllister family went to Florida. So there you have it. Abby, which movie had better moments? i think I'm gonna go with elf on this one It just had so many good quotes that people still use all the time even when it's not Christmas And I really appreciated the gorilla style filming that they did through New York City. Yeah, I can't disagree with that It's hard to talk about elf without talking about every single scene yout because every scene has like three memorable quotes That's the problem with Will Ferrell movies. Is he the most quotable yeah actor? I'm not even like a big Will Ferrell fan necessarily, but it's like
00:43:24
Speaker
I quote his movies all the time. All right, we are one to one heading into round three, better title and soundtrack. Yeah, Elf is a pretty musical movie when you think about it. The best way to spread Christmas cheer is singing loud for all to hear. There you go. The score is great. We talked about what's really good the music throughout the movie is just really well done. Naturally, there's just a lot of Christmas songs. You have Pennies from Heaven, Santa Baby, The Nutcracker Suite, Jingle Bell Rock. Even more than that, those were just like the first few that came to mind. but Yeah, totally. Whoop, there it is. That's when they're dancing. Jock jams. The title to Elf. I mean, pretty straightforward. He's an elf. I do like the poster where he's the L in Elf. I think that's a pretty nice touch. Zoey Deschanel performs three songs in this film. One of them is Baby It's Cold Outside, which she sings accompanied by Will Ferrell. She also sings Santa Claus is Coming to Town and Auld Lang Syne. She later made an official recording with her indie duo, She and Him, released on their album A Very She and Him Christmas, which came out in 2011.
00:44:23
Speaker
Alright, so in the Santa Claus, we've got a lot of Christmas music again. Carol of the Bells, Oh Christmas Tree, White Christmas, Santa Claus is coming to town, Jingle Bells. They do that dance to ZZ Tops, give me all your loving. That was actually improvised and done in one take and the director just liked it and so left it in.
00:44:38
Speaker
Then a couple small musical cues. When Laura looks at the mystery date game, the music we hear is the jingle from the old television commercial. And then when Scott is eating all the desserts at the work lunch, they play the Jeopardy song. Like everyone was just waiting for him to be done. The title, the Santa Claus, is kind of unique. because it's obviously a play on that he is Santa Claus, but it's the clause, C-L-A-U-S-E that they talk about so often in the movie. But the thing that always gets me about it is I repeatedly spell clause wrong in my life because of this movie. So I was six when this came out and I just kept seeing the Santa Claus and I just assumed that that's how you spelled Santa Claus. Santa Claus doesn't look finished when there's no E at the end. Exactly. It's pretty clever. I do like that part where Bernard explains to him the clause, like, no, the last line on a contract. And then he shows them the fine print on the business card. That part is cool when he pulls them back in the fine glasses. Yeah. All right, Abby, who's taking this round? This is hard because I feel like music wise, it goes to Alf because of generalization now and all of her singing and the bathroom scenes, just the classic. But I like the title better for the Santa Claus. Like it's just a great play on words that I don't think I got when I was a kid. Like it went over my head a little bit.
00:45:51
Speaker
So I think I'm going to give it to the Santa Claus because I just appreciate the play on words. If we were just going straight music to music, Elf would win by a landslide. For sure. It's like one of the main plots of the movie. But the name is like, it's fine. It's about an elf. All right, cool. So we are two to one for the Santa Claus heading into round four. Plot holes, cringiness, random questions.
Plot Holes and Critiques
00:46:13
Speaker
So Buddy climbs out of Santa's bag, and an elf says his name must be Buddy because of the diaper company name that he's wearing. But doesn't Santa know all the children and their names? Therefore, he would have known Buddy's real name. You would think. So I was like trying to justify it in my mind. And I said, OK, maybe he didn't have a name. you know His mom put him up for adoption when it said the orphanage, when he was really young. They show him crawling around, which means that like i mean what age do babies start crawling around at? Like four months old, five months old, six months old, something like that?
00:46:43
Speaker
You have three of them. You don't know. Seven months old, eight months old, nine months old, seven months. I don't remember. it Like I block all that out. I don't even know the answer to this. I'm like, we have a kid. I think it's like eight to 10 months. It's a while. It is months of their life. So you're telling me he didn't have a name for months of his life. Like, come on. Maybe they call them. Hey, buddy. Maybe and it just happened to line up. Also, was the orphanage the last stop on Santa's journey? Because like, how did Santa not see a baby crawling around in his bag? It is a flower.
00:47:12
Speaker
Also, this isn't really a plot hole, but it annoys me enough that I'm putting it in plot holes. Blood samples for paternity tests are sent to specialized labs and they're not just done in doctor's offices. You don't get the results within like four minutes. oh That's true. That's a movie trope, but I do like the line where he's like, it's a boy. It was worth it. I just said, yeah. yeah The only cringy part of this was was Buddy really going to jump off that bridge? Like that got dark. I don't know. And like I know we mentioned the callback to It's a Wonderful Life. Yeah. I don't know if it was framed just for that. I don't know. It's a good question though. So random questions. This is a logistical question I have for you. How did Jovi get into the locker room when Gimbals was closed? She was just an employee. There's no way she had a key. I have wondered that every time I've watched it. Also, how fast would Jovi have reported Buddy to like the police H.R. after their first like two interactions like he's yeah in the shower when she's there? That part, like as much as I love the singing, it is pretty cringy, like to think about a guy creeping in. I mean, even the song. Well, yeah, I mean, the song is double up. I know. That's the thing, too. They really like they double down on that. Like let's have a sneak into the women's locker room and then sing like a song about Yeah, it's it's kind of cringy. But then after all that, Jovi falls for Buddy. So I just like what kind of father issues did she have that led her to fall for someone like Buddy? She needs to see a psychiatrist. Yeah, Neil, I did like they have a VCR reference in here, but he says, sorry for ruining your lives and jamming 11 cookies in your VCR.
00:48:43
Speaker
Kids, like nowadays, they would have no idea what a VCR is. But he did write that note on an Etch A Sketch. Yep. So when Buddy asks Jovi out, he's like, what what does he say? When I'm near you, my tongue swells up. yeah Do you want to go get food? I feel all warm inside. Is that how you asked Abby out? Yeah, that was very similar.
00:49:00
Speaker
Last thing I have is when Michael's reading from Santa's list, he's, you know, reading off the names as they are listed. And so they're all over the place. And then suddenly he's given a name to look up and he says D and flips the pages like he's moving to the section D as if the book is in alphabetical order. However, the names he had already read from a single page are in no particular alphabetical order. That's another movie trope or like, you know, look something up in a book and it's like the first page I turned to is like if that has a list of every name of every person in the world and he like found it right away. I did like that about the Santa Claus when he got the list and it filled up his entire house. Yeah. OK, what plot holes does the Santa Claus have? All right. No person at the North Pole seems upset that the original Santa Claus banished. I also think that they would have been kinder to him in that situation, especially Bernard. Okay. You're right. That is a plot hole. However, they have since rectified that the streaming series, the Santa Clauses, they actually resolved this partially due to the fact that Tim Allen complained about this story point quite often.
00:50:03
Speaker
So in the canon of the Santa Claus, the original Santa was actually a supernatural being. He was known as Santa 17. So there was 16 other Santas before him and he faked his death and created all the clauses to convince Scott to do the job. Scott Calvin was actually the first human to do it and was chosen because of his generosity as a child. The original Santa didn't actually die. He just retired after all of this. Gotcha. Okay. I've seen that in some other Santa movies where they like name the successor. Arthur Christmas. Oh, my gosh. It's like Beetlejuice. If you say it enough times, he's going to appear. I'm just saying that's the plot in that one. If we were to do an episode on Arthur Christmas, we would have negative downloads. I don't understand. I remember liking it when I saw it, but the Rockline House really builds up Arthur Christmas.
00:50:57
Speaker
Yeah. Why didn't we watch it when Rob was here? Because I wouldn't have. yeah Because you you would have been driven home. I need to watch it after this. I don't care how late it is. I have it on right here. I'm watching it in the background while we're talking. All right. During Scott Calvin's first year of Santa, he visits Sarah, the little girl. She is clearly missing her two front teeth. She's the girl that he says he is lactose intolerant to. The next year she leaves him soy milk. And when she speaks, she is still missing her two front teeth.
00:51:25
Speaker
Well, if someone who had her two front teeth knocked out accidentally, it can take a year for them to grow in. I like it. Maybe that's what happened to her. OK, cringy. The Johnson secretary joke from the work Christmas party. Denny's is an American institution, as they say, and it cuts to all the Japanese businessmen. Yeah, it's a tough joke. When his boss talks about his weight, I feel like you can't do that. No. And that's like a very corporate job. If my boss ever said something, to me I'd be like, that is highly inappropriate.
00:51:52
Speaker
Well, just the way they reacted when he walked in the door, you have to be like, I got stung by a bee. It's like, you should not have to say that to anybody. No, no. His social awareness is so bad when he is at the work lunch and it makes me feel uncomfortable. I know he's like supposedly transforming into Santa, but I still think he would have like a little bit of feel. No one's going to a work.
00:52:14
Speaker
lunch and being like, I will have a salad and 87 desserts, please. Right. Like you don't order dessert for a work lunch. No. Read the room. Everyone's done and he's sitting there like still eating it all loudly to the spoon scraping. Yeah. Yeah. Just some random stuff here. Scott takes Charlie to Denny's after he burns the turkey. When they're seated at the table, however, the menus are for a different restaurant. Why is that? Come on.
00:52:37
Speaker
They did such a great job with like inserting all these little things in that movie that like when these go unnoticed, it's like, why? My only explanation for that is maybe they didn't have clearance to use Denny's when they were filming it. So they use a different menu in case they had to just make it like a restaurant like Denny's. But then they got the permission to use Denny's. So it's interesting. How did Charlie have all that time in the North Pole to make toys and changes to the sleigh? They were gone for like maybe a few hours. That's another one of those movie tropes. Scott says he thinks that Charlie should spend Christmas Eve with Laura and Neil. Then he comes back like an hour later and says, you want to go for a quick ride? It's like you just did this whole thing. Yeah. Come on. All right, Abby. So which movie had more plot holes and questions and the other movie will get the point. OK, well, can I put it on another plot hole for me with the Santa Claus? Please. Yes.
00:53:25
Speaker
I don't understand him going back to his real life for that whole year. So then it seems like the end of the Santa Claus, he stays at the North Pole. So why the first year when he was going through the transition, did they just send him? but He woke up in his bed the next day and had to spend an entire year, everyone thinking he was crazy. I don't think the North Pole handled it well. There are, as we call it, onboarding process was not very good. Really terrible. Like go to bed. See you in the morning. Just kidding. But here's some jammies for you. You're right. Like no communication. All they did was send them the list in like yeah September. did They tell them like get your affairs in order. but like that's it. But I kind of want a little bit more detail like about that. That's the same thing where you are saying Alex about when he shows up to the North Pole and everyone's just acting like, Oh, here's the new Santa. And it's like, this guy just learned that Santa is actually real. They were like annoyed with him for not knowing.
00:54:18
Speaker
I think part of it is just like the way movies age. But for me, I think that the plot holes and just the cringiness factor in the Santa Claus was higher. Yeah. I don't know if I would have said that until I started writing them down. And then when I started listing all the cringiness from the Santa Claus, I also think it's up like once you become a parent too, like there's something for the kids that you're like, Oh, I wouldn't have done that. Like even for me, the whole thing with Charlie, he was so little and the way that like Neil and Laura were like, Santa's operating out like that was crazy to me. It was like, I don't believe like, Why does it matter? Like they were like mad about it. So I do think it takes a different turn when you're a parent and you think about your own kids or just like kids sitting on some random dude's lap at the park because he looks like Santa is like, I know he kind of said, like, let's keep it a secret. But how hard would it have been to say it from the beginning? Like, look, Charlie, don't talk about this. Yeah, it would have been easier if you lived in the North Pole.
00:55:15
Speaker
Also, for me with the potholes, if Tim Allen's character had just pulled, like, you know how Charlie is like, don't you remember this and this right after they go to the North Pole and he admits to it? He's like, oh, we were having the same dream. Why didn't you just say no, that didn't happen. Then his kid probably would have dropped it because he was like, oh, I guess it was a dream. But instead he was like, well, I remember that too, but we must have been sharing a dream. It's like, that feels less likely. Right. Cause that happens so often. We also didn't mention this at all, but the timeline of that whole Christmas Eve. So he has that work Christmas party. It's dark when he's driving home. So, and he's late. I'll give him the benefit of that. Let's say it's five o'clock when he gets to his house.
00:55:54
Speaker
I don't know. The Christmas party being on the same night feels like a real stretch for me because it's like, first off, what company has their Christmas party on Christmas Eve? But also that seemed like a pretty raucous party. Like I feel like that's like a we're going to at least 10 o'clock 11. Yes. You know, like not like everyone owned by five to make dinner for their families. All right. So we're two to two heading into round five, our miscellaneous question of the week. Which movie does a better job of explaining the Christmas lore?
00:56:25
Speaker
In the Santa Claus, I think the explanations are pretty awesome. And it's like, still to this day, how I explain things, you've got how does Santa get down the chimney? Or how does he get into houses that don't have chimneys and you have the flying bag? It was always like, how does he carry all those presents? Well, the presents just appearing is pretty awesome.
00:56:44
Speaker
And then an elf, the biggest one is the Clawsometer, the Christmas meter for Christmas cheer that kind of like powers Santa's magic and the sleigh. I will say when it comes to the North Poles, I like both of them. I did like an elf, how they were making like actual toys, like toys from the time period. The Santa Claus, they were just making like the little kid generic trinkets and stuff. But which movie does a better job? Yeah, I gotta go with ah the Santa Claus on this one. I remember that as a kid seeing that movie and like just loving how they like explained all of those things that like as a kid you always questioned. And so I don't feel like I really did that, which is totally fine. But it was just like one of my favorite things about the Santa Claus. It's so good. Like I just love when he goes down and it's like a radiator, but it like turns into a giant chimney and he comes out and then it goes back to a radiator. When I was young, I grew up in a condo. We didn't have a fireplace. Yeah. And I was like, how's Santa going to come? You know, so I loved that stuff. We didn't have a fireplace either. So same thing. We don't know. Yeah. Oh, you don't have one now. Yeah, we don't have one. This is something we have talked about. Yeah. OK, we are three to two for the Santa Claus heading to round six. Better trivia.
00:57:54
Speaker
The elves have a pitcher of syrup in their break room instead of coffee. That's cool. It's a nice little touch. So among the individuals seen on the first page of Santa's list are tennis star Andre Agassi and actor Armand Asante. Buddy's 12 second burp was done by voice actor Maurice LaMarche.
00:58:13
Speaker
Best known for his cartoon character, The Brain from Pinky and the Brain. Also, the voice of the Jack in the Box laugh is that of Dal McKinnon. The audio clip is taken from Lady and the Tramp in which McKinnon performed the voice of a laughing hyena. I don't know what version of the Santa Claus you guys watched, but I watched it on Disney Plus and I remember when I was younger and I owned the VHS copy. It's right up there behind me, the Santa Claus and VHS.
00:58:39
Speaker
And I remember a line that said 1-800-SPANK-ME. It was when Scott was given a phone number. Do you guys remember that line at all? I do remember that. Was it on the version that you watched? No, because I watched the Disney Plus version, yeah.
00:58:53
Speaker
So during the film's release, a woman from near Cleveland, Ohio called the supposedly fictional number for her curious grandchildren. It turned out to be a adult line and that wasn't good. But it wasn't until 1997 Disney received multiple complaints from parents whose children called the number and racked up very large phone bills that the studio decided to cut the line from all future releases of the movie.
00:59:17
Speaker
Oh, that's funny. Many of the sets were built twice. One much larger for the actors playing elves and the other slightly smaller for the actors playing normal sized people. For example, in the scene where Santa addresses his elves, he is standing on a platform on a smaller version of the set. The elves were standing on the other larger platform far behind him. Lighting was used to blend the two images together. That's a pretty cool practical filmmaking.
Cinematic Techniques in 'Elf'
00:59:40
Speaker
After we watched Elf, Evelyn wanted to, you know, I told her there's some behind the scenes stuff, so we watched that. And they really got into the forced perspective. That's cool. Even like when Buddy is sitting on Papa Elf's lap, like how there's another actor there between them. Just like really cool how they did that with camera tricks instead of CGI.
00:59:57
Speaker
I feel like it'll make that movie look and feel really good, even well into the future. It's timeless.
Hidden Details in 'The Santa Claus'
01:00:04
Speaker
All right. This is one of my favorite things about the Santa Claus. There are a number of what I'm going to call hidden elves throughout the movie in Scott and Charlie's real world, not just the North Pole. So the little blonde girl walking away from the window in the opening of the movie has pointy ears. She's an elf. There's a boy putting on his jacket wearing a red scarf in the Denny's scene. There's a girl walking behind the bench when Scott has all the kids lined up at the soccer game. There's a girl in a purple coat who walks by Scott and Charlie in the park when Scott wants Charlie to stop talking about Santa Claus. And the attentive little boy in the blue turtleneck sitting behind Charlie in his class during the parent career day is an elf. So all of those people have pointy ears. They're all elves hidden in the real world. Then they all show up as a group at the end of the movie when Scott flies away from the Miller house and all of them run off and skip.
01:00:56
Speaker
which is kind of fun when you go back and watch it again and you try to look and find these hidden elves. Yeah, I had no idea when Rob knew or at our place and the movie was on TV when we were having family dinner and you mentioned that. I was like, how do we never notice that? That's great. All right, Abby, who's trivia
Trivia and Storytelling in 'Elf'
01:01:11
Speaker
do you like more? I gotta to give it to elf. I really like the way they made the movie. The fourth perspective is pretty awesome. And like you said, it just makes it more classic, I think. Well, cool. We are tied three to three heading into round seven. Better story, better script, more fun.
01:01:27
Speaker
Elf, I think the movie ties together really nicely. A lot of times in comedies like that, it can almost feel like they're just different little sketches just thrown together. But the ending of Elf, I do think, ties it all up. It's pretty well written plot-wise, is what i'm I'm getting at. And I do like that it's a Christmas movie that's not overly about Santa. There aren't too many of them.
Mature Themes in 'The Santa Claus'
01:01:48
Speaker
Whereas the Santa Claus, it's great. I love that it's a kid's movie that doesn't necessarily treat you like a kid. There's some funny goofy moments in it, but it does feel like, I'm going to say mature, but I don't mean mature movie. Like it doesn't dumb itself down to be a family movie. And there are some like really nice touches in the Santa Claus, like the color change of Scott's Converse. They start off as black and as the movie goes on, they turn into red. Him not touching the salad at his work lunch, like showing the Santa stuff is starting to take over. So I would say both movies have really cool
The Essence of Christmas Magic
01:02:21
Speaker
stories. I think both scripts are pretty good and obviously they're both really fun.
01:02:26
Speaker
Alex, you want to add anything? I mean, the Santa Claus, it's fun to watch it again for I don't know how many times I've seen it now, but all the little details, they were so thoughtful with all that stuff. It just plays up the magic of Christmas in that time. And I mean, el as we all know, quotable, it's funny, but it's just also a really good story. And I like that it comes full circle at the end. And also in me, both movies, they have like that Christmas magic and, you know, the whole themes of like family at Christmas time.
01:02:52
Speaker
So it is interesting too, how similar they are, just the way they get. There's a lot different and they're both in the rotation
Conclusion of Movie Showdown
01:02:58
Speaker
every year. All right, Abby, who is winning the Christmas movie matchup? So hard. They're both so good. I'm really struggling with this one. I think I have to give it to Al. I like the full circle mess of it. I like that they go back to Papa else at the end, but he's not like this forgotten character and was tough close.
01:03:17
Speaker
Heading into this episode, I really thought that the Santa Claus would be the better movie. And then as I watched it, I was like, maybe for me personally, that's how it holds up. But I think I may be the lone exception and that like, I understand why Elf would be a more attractive, funnier, tied together. Elf really is great.
01:03:38
Speaker
I think Santa Claus just hits like a lot of the nostalgia, right? Yeah. And that's like what makes it feel like a better movie at times. But when I like look at them as movies, also just hard to beat. Yeah, especially with Santa Claus coming out when we were kids, like it makes such an impact. Even movies that aren't great that I watched as a kid. I'm like, that's the best movie ever. Well, great. Well, Elf takes home this Christmas family classic movie showdown. And that's a lot of words to say that Elf beat the Santa Claus. Let's jump into our rankings.
01:04:05
Speaker
Real, real tight this time. I get Santa Claus at 89 and Elf at 91. I'm going to give Santa Claus an 86 and Elf a 92. If I was going purely on nostalgia factor, I would give the Santa Claus a 92, but based on our conversation, rewatching the movie and really thinking about it, I'm going to go Santa Claus 90 and Elf a 91. This conversation got me to change it because wow in my top five that we did earlier, Santa Claus was ahead of Elf. right But as I was thinking about it, I was like, no, Elf is a better movie. And Arthur Christmas is 104.
01:04:46
Speaker
There's no scale high enough for earth or Christmas. No, no, no. Well, all of us here at the movie showdown hope that our listeners have a great Christmas and holiday season.
Closing Remarks and Social Engagement
01:04:57
Speaker
We will be taking a little bit of a break, but please listen to our older episodes. If you haven't, give us some ratings, review us comments. That's the best way to help get the show other places. We will be posting some new content on social media in the coming months. So make sure you check us out there. But this has been the movie showdown with Rock and Rob. Be sure to like, subscribe, rate and review all that fun stuff. And follow us on all the socials at Rock and Rob show. Until next time. Peace. I'm out of here. Hope you find your dad. Bye. Yes. Love it.