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Make My Millennium: Beetlejuice vs. Edward Scissorhands
204 Plays1 year ago
With Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice releasing this week, Rock & Rob would like to invite you to The Burton Bowl, where they match up two of Tim Burton’s greatest films: The original Beetlejuice (1988) and Edward Scissorhands (1990). Listen in as they put these two incredibly weird and creative movies through seven rounds of questions such as best cast and bigger plot holes while also discussing things such as Edward Scissorhands’ ice guy and WHY DIDN’T THE MAITLAND’S JUST READ THE BOOK THAT EXPLAINED EVERYTHING THEY NEEDED TO KNOW! Will Edward Scissorhands cut his way to the top or will Beetlejuice prove he really is the ghost with the most? It’s showtime!
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Transcript
Opening Banter and Listener Acknowledgment
00:00:00
Speaker
Ladies and gentlemen, can I please have your attention?
00:00:09
Speaker
Brothers don't shake hands. Brothers got a hug. Your voice is like a combination of Fergie and Jesus. He sound like Alfred London. I don't want your life. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul. OK, a simple wrong would have done just fine. It's show time, everybody. Welcome to the movie showdown with Rock and Rob. My name is Rob Mansfield, and with me taking a break from reading the handbook for the recently deceased. It's Rock, Rock, Rock. It's Alex Rockline.
00:00:39
Speaker
What happens when you say my name three times? I guess we'll find out. Well, before we get into the show, let's read a five-star review. Best part. This is a five-star review by Paul E. Hogg. A simple TikTok led me to the show, a showdown between two Sylvester Stallone movies. I immediately knew I had to find the podcast. I love 80s action, the machismo, the corniness, the unbelievable stunts, and of course, the one-liners.
00:01:05
Speaker
Paul and I have actually communicated a little bit over TikTok. He's a cool dude. I like him. I know he'll listen to this episode. Paul, just want to let you know. I appreciate you, my man. Shout out to Paul. I will cut you a slice of pizza with my scissors. Yes. For those of you that don't understand that reference, go back and listen to all of our episodes. It will become clear. I think about that one a lot. Well, the rock question of the week.
Debate on the Merits of Long-Awaited Sequels
00:01:27
Speaker
What is your feeling on the trend of sequels coming out 20 plus years after the original movie? So we've had Top Gun Maverick, Hocus Pocus 2, Axel Foley. A lot of movies have been following this trend. I'm a little split on it, and I'll give you a few reasons why. One, it is cool to see something get brought back after so many years.
00:01:50
Speaker
But at the same time, I'm a little hesitant because it's been so long. I think I like the idea more than I don't like the idea. It's interesting because I think 30 years ago, they wouldn't really take a movie from 30 years prior to that and have a sequel or something. Now, I think nostalgia is just such a factor. And you're on social media, there's so many nostalgia pages from the 90s, 80s.
00:02:13
Speaker
And it's huge because I think people our age like to reminisce about the stuff they grew up with. So on one hand, I understand why movie studios would want to do it because it's going to make a money. On the other hand, if they're just doing it for a cash grab, it can kind of tarnish the legacy a little bit.
00:02:28
Speaker
like anything, there's been some really good ones and there's been some bad ones and there's been some unique takes and there's been some just like boring bland take Top Gun Maverick was really well done. Focus, focus to whatever. It was fine. So as long as they can do the story well and make it interesting, I think it's definitely worth it. And like, why not? But if they're not adding anything to it and they're just doing it because it's like here are these characters that people love, maybe is better left off in the past.
00:02:55
Speaker
Yeah.
Tim Burton's Influence and Style
00:02:56
Speaker
Well, so we're talking about sequels because this week, Beetlejuice Beetlejuice is being released in theaters and we wanted to give some love to director Tim Burton. So this week we'll be matching up two of his most popular movies in what we will be calling the Burton Bull. Those movies are the first Beetlejuice movie and Edward Scissorhands. Rock, talk to me about Tim Burton.
00:03:17
Speaker
He is a character, eccentric, a little oddball-ish, I would say, but definitely uniquely himself. When I think of him, I think of things that kind of push the bounds. A little weird, gothic style, eccentric characters, very creative. Yeah, you see a Tim Burton movie, you know it's a Tim Burton movie, right? Grungy, fantastical, dark, but with massive pops of color here and there.
00:03:43
Speaker
Burton got his first directing break with Peewee's Big Adventure. That was a surprise box office success, which led him to receiving a ton of interest to make some other movies. That's how he got the Beetlejuice script, but would go on to do Batman Batman Returns, Willy Wonka remake.
00:03:58
Speaker
You know, after watching these two movies, it's really interesting to see how these early movies impacted the way he continued to make films. You know, you look at Beetlejuice, the visual effects budget was only a million dollars. And that was like a huge factor as to why he made things look kind of tacky, be movie ish, lots of stop motion. And that's something that would kind of become a little bit of a trademark for him. And then we may be doing little hint, hint, another Tim Burton movie set within that timeframe.
Edward Scissorhands: Plot and Cast Analysis
00:04:26
Speaker
a little later in the year. And so it'll be interesting to kind of review that in the context of these as well. So, Rock, tell me what movie you're representing this week. So this week I will be representing Edward Scissorhands. Quick summary. Have you seen Frankenstein? Imagine Frankenstein's monster, except he looks like the lead singer for a super emo band. But instead of having hands, he has all types of scissors and blades for fingers, because apparently that was easier to create than just a being with no hands.
00:04:54
Speaker
Okay, so the My Chemical Romance looking guy with Scissorhands gets brought home by a nice lady. Anyway, the rest of the movie is about the Scissorhands man trying to acclimate to life in suburbia. Nice. Who comes up with that stuff? That's great. It's like a fish out of water, except it's the weirdest, strangest fish out of water you could think of.
00:05:12
Speaker
Edward Scissorhands was released on December 7th, 1990, directed by Tim Burton, written by Caroline Thompson and Tim Burton, had a budget of $20 million. dollars Box office brought in $86 million. dollars We have a Rotten Tomato score of 90% and a Google audience score of 85%. One of the highest Rotten Tomato scores we've done. Tim Burton himself has said that this is not his greatest film, but he did say it is his favorite.
00:05:39
Speaker
All right, which means that I will be representing Beetlejuice. Growing up, I was never like a huge Beetlejuice fan. I don't even know when the first time I saw it, but I definitely had seen Edward Scissorhands way more, but I really loved it. So the summary of Beetlejuice. A couple dies, but it's trapped in their home while a new family moves in and they can only watch as the mom from Home Alone completely and hideously redesigns what they had made.
00:06:01
Speaker
They don't like it, so they try to scare the family into moving, but they forgot to read the instruction manual and how to be dead so they can't scare them out of it and instead choose the spark notes version of hiring a very pervy guy named Beetlejuice to do it for them. Surprise, surprise, it does not go well. Released March 30th, 1988, directed by Tim Burton. The studio actually wanted Wes Craven to direct this movie, but he passed and that's how it ended up with Tim Burton.
00:06:28
Speaker
Written by Michael McDowell, Warren Skarin, and Larry Wilson, McDowell was a pretty prolific novelist in the mystery thriller horror genres, especially Southern Gothic horror. Budget of $15 million, dollars box office brought in $74.7 million. dollars Rotten tomato score of 86%, Google audience score of 82%.
00:06:49
Speaker
Success of Beetlejuice spawned an animated series that premiered one year after the film and now a sequel 26 years later. The craziest thing to me about this movie is that it's rated PG. I didn't realize that it was. It even drops in F word. There's only a few movies that are rated PG and say the F word. So you've got Spaceballs, Big and Caddyshack 2. That's another good little trivia. Beetlejuice stars, Michael Keaton. I don't know about you. I love Michael Keaton. Yes, me too. Do you know his real name is Michael Douglas? No, I did not know that. When he moved to Hollywood, there was already obviously a Michael Douglas, so he had to change his name. So he said he just looked through the phone book under the letter K, saw Keaton, stopped looking and was like, cool, I'm just Michael Keaton from now on. Love it. All right, Rock, let's do the best friends challenge. We're each going to name our top five movies that have Michael Keaton in it. If we match up three in the exact spot, we win. We're best friends. That sounds good. Number five, Spider-Man Homecoming. Yeah, Rob, I think the number five position was the hardest one for me to fill. So spotlights phenomenal movie. I don't love the subject matter. It's kind of a hard movie. He's really good in it. Yeah. Spider-Man homecoming. It's one of my favorite MCU movies, but I think Michael Keaton is one of the better Marvel villains that we've gotten. They kind of flushed out his backstory a little bit. I really liked him in it. That's why I threw him at five. That was like my five B spoiler alert spotlights, not on my list, but I do really like the movie. Okay. Number four, Birdman. Let's go. All right. We got one. Birdman gave us the resurgence of Michael Keaton. I remember the first time I saw that movie. I was so impressed with the filmmaking of it and how he played that part. It was really good. I hadn't heard about the whole like one shot. It was so cool. Number three.
00:08:37
Speaker
ju three oh my god Dang it, dang it, dang it. I had Beetlejuice too. I changed it. All right, let's keep going. Number two, Toy Story 3. Yeah. Those were so interchangeable for me. Toy Story 3 is a phenomenal movie. It really makes me feel inside. Yeah. Michael Keaton, voice of Ken. That movie is so good.
00:09:00
Speaker
Beetlejuice led to him landing the Batman role, and he's so funny as Beetlejuice, a character that I don't think you're supposed to like, but it's hard not to like him in it. Right. OK, let's just keep going. Number one, Batman. Yeah, movie that made him a huge, huge star. Nobody thought he could do it. He crushed it. There's a large portion of the population that will always identify Michael Keaton as the greatest Batman, but hard to go against Batman at number one. Totally agree. All right, this week we are not best friends, but we were pretty close. We're pretty good friends this week. All right, let's jump into the categories here. Round one, best cast.
00:09:42
Speaker
Johnny Depp, he is Edward Scissorhands. So this is the first time that Tim Burton and Johnny Depp worked together. They became good friends, may maybe best friends, who knows, while making this film and they would go on to make eight movies together. At the time of his casting, Depp was wanting to break out of his teen idol status, which his performance in 21 Jump Street had afforded him. He is very good in this movie. This is a very hard role to play, not only with the mechanisms on his hands, but the fact that he is just not a very talkative character and he does a lot of body language, his eyes, his facial expressions. He does a lot of acting that way. Yeah, I think he says only 169 words in the entire movie, which is.
00:10:24
Speaker
Not that many. Which we usually say in the first three minutes of an episode. Exactly. like It's hard to think of anyone else really who could pull off a role like this. Yes. Other than Johnny Depp. So Edward Scissorhands, where's this all black outfit? I don't really know what else to call it. It's got loops and hooks and also I don't even know what it is.
00:10:44
Speaker
It's kind of alluded to that it's part of his body. Yeah. But it's like a skin tight leather outfit with random circular decorations throughout it. Yeah. Then he's got the scissor hands. He's got the crazy hair. I'd seen this movie a bunch, but I forgot what happens. And when he shows up and is given clothes to change into, I'm like, wait, how do they do this? And then he just puts the clothes on over he just the top of what? Yeah, which makes you think that maybe he can't take off those clothes. Maybe they are a part of him. And Johnny Depp actually had to lose 25 pounds for this role. Had to or it was just like, I'm doing it. Or he wore the scissor hands. It's like, I can't eat. So yeah. And just like some of his mannerisms throughout the movie. So when he sleeps, he's got to sleep with his hands up because like, how does that even work? Well, if he's not human, it's like maybe he's not a big problem for him. Does he even need to sleep?
00:11:33
Speaker
There's a lot of questions like that that we will cover. So Johnny Depp. So when he first read the script, he stated that he cried like a baby. It is a very emotional movie. And for me, at least it definitely makes you feel it does. And Burton has talked about how he kind of based a lot of this off of how he felt growing up as an outsider. So there's a lot of ways that I think people can relate to the character of Edward. So yeah, checks out.
00:11:57
Speaker
The one thing when I was watching the movie, I was like, Oh, wouldn't his scissors dull over time? They still seemed really sharp. And then they answered that question. They had a scissor sharpening scene. Yeah. Or even the part where Kevin was hosing him off and then they're like, that's not a great idea. And I was like, Oh yeah, of course. Rust like you got to do with, we got to do with rust. There are these little bits and pieces in the movie that burton does a good job of putting you in this fantasy type world, but setting things up to give it more credibility. It's like such a small detail that could be overlooked. You you know, you are thinking it. And then when they show something like that, even if it's like absurd, you're just like, OK, yeah. Okay, so I got some names for you of actors that were considered for Edward Scissorhands. Michael Jackson was word for the part. Gary Oldman turned down the part. Tom Hanks was considered. Tom Cruise was also considered, but he asked a lot of odd questions like, how did Edward go to the bathroom? How did he live without eating all those ears? And eventually turned it down. Those are valid questions. They are very valid questions. And then also Jim Carrey auditioned for the role. Johnny Depp was the right choice.
00:13:01
Speaker
Also appearing in this movie is Winona Ryder. She plays Kim Boggs. What do you know Winona Ryder from most? I mean like recency bias, I think of Stranger Things. That's a great question because I feel like she's so famous. Come on. There's one movie specifically that you or I mentioned about every other episode. Don't look it up. You're talking about Mr. Deeds.
00:13:23
Speaker
Yes, Mr. Dean. That's what I was thinking. And I was like, is this what we're talking about? Yes, Mr. Deeds. Of course. She's from, uh, what's the town she's from? in Winchester, then Fieldville.
Beetlejuice: Character, Plot, and Impact
00:13:32
Speaker
Bae Bennett, right? Isn't that her name? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. People are going to criticize us. She's in so much other things I know, but that's just the movie that when I see her, I'm always like, Oh, Hey, Mr. Deeds. She's great. All right. We have Diane Wiest. She plays Peg Boggs. She's the one that discovers Edward because she is the Avon lady. Avon calling. Did you know anybody that sold Avon growing up? Sure did. Mrs. Stankowitz lived at the end of the road.
00:13:56
Speaker
That's a real last name. Do you think she listens? I don't think so. Her last name was really Stankowitz. Yes. That just sounds like a movie written name. It sounds me. the No, very nice family. My aunt sold Avon. So we always had the books around the house. It's kind of like what those multilevel marketing things were before social media.
00:14:15
Speaker
Originally, Tim Burton wanted Gina Davis for this role um after he worked with her on Beetlejuice, but she was unavailable. This character's a peg. She's actually based on Caroline Thompson's mom, Caroline Thompson being one of the writers, who used to bring home strangers. And then the neighbors from the movie are based on the people she grew up with as a kid. I feel like that's something that doesn't happen anymore. Strangers being brought home. Definitely not. I mean, it's so normal in this movie. They're just like, hey, we run home a stranger. Not only that, he has scissors for hands. And everyone's like, all right, one's a cookie.
00:14:46
Speaker
Anthony Michael Hall plays Jim. You might know him more for some of his nerdier roles like Brian in The Breakfast Club, but he is quite the opposite in this movie. His character is so interesting. You need somebody like him in this movie to make Edward feel even more of an outsider. And he's one of the people that resists accepting him. But this dude wanted to steal from his own dad so that he could buy a sex van. That's absurd. This was his motivation.
00:15:13
Speaker
That whole break in scene, you feel so bad for Edward. And then it's revealed a little later on, like he knew what they were doing the whole time. But since Kim had asked him to, he was like, I'll do it. I got a little baseball hat trivia for you. Oh, let me hear. We know you love your baseball hat. So Edward's wearing a hat during that break in scene. Do you know what college baseball team that hat is for? I did not know it was an actual team. I mean, I remember the V. Yeah. I remember almost googling. Where can I buy that hat? Because I'm like, that's a cool looking hat. The 1990 University of Virginia baseball hats. Wow. That is so specific. It's so specific. That's great. After that break in scene, the town turns on Edward so fast and they were just like waiting for one thing. They really did. Uh, we also have Vincent Price. He plays the inventor. Initially this role was supposed to be a lot larger, but the actor was very ill. He had emphysema and Parkinson's disease. So his scenes were cut to a minimum, which is really why we don't get too much of a backstory.
00:16:09
Speaker
I did like the flashbacks. I don't know. I could have used like maybe even like one more, but it is what it is. So actually this role was written specifically for him in mind. And it was his last film role. And it's also the only film in which Vincent Price and his daughter, Victoria Price appeared together. Oh, cool. Yeah. I think Victoria plays like the news lady or something.
00:16:28
Speaker
Tim Burton's second choice for the inventor was Leonard Nimoy. A Spock, right? Yes, that was Spock. Ellen Arkin plays Bill, so that is the dad. I got another fun little actress for you. The neighbor, Helen, she's one of the housewives. Oh, Helen. She's played by Conchata Farrell. What's she from?
00:16:46
Speaker
I mean, if you're Winona ridering me, then it's Mr. Deeds. It's Mr. Deeds. She works at the pizza place. Another one of the minor roles is Kevin. He's the little brother played by a Robert Oliveri. Actually, Macaulay Culkin was considered for this role after Tim Burton saw him and Uncle Buck. But unfortunately, he was unavailable because he was filming a little movie known as Home Alone. I think I am pronouncing that correct. it's Good choice by him. Yeah, a much better choice. I've got another fun little thing for you. So in the beginning, Peg's driving around and in the background you see these kids playing and there's a slip and slide, which yes I always notice slip and slides because in my mind, they're the most fun thing ever. I don't actually know if that's true, but so there's a little blonde kid who does the slip inside and that little blonde kid is Nick Carter from the Backstreet Boys.
00:17:35
Speaker
but So he's uncredited in the movie, but Carter himself has actually confirmed the fact in several interviews. That is really cool. All right. Beetlejuice has a phenomenal cast. We mentioned him already, but we've got Michael Keaton as Beetlejuice, the ghost with the most. This is actually Michael Keaton's favorite film of his own. And initially he turned it down because he just like didn't get the s script, but he came around after meeting Tim Burton and seeing Pee Wee's Big Adventure. He's like, Oh, now what all makes sense?
00:18:04
Speaker
the black and white Beetlejuice suit. It's so iconic. When you think of Beetlejuice, you think of that suit, even though it's only in about two minutes of the movie. Yeah, I was so surprised at that because that's how I know him with, you know, very little exposure to this movie growing up. But like I knew who Beetlejuice was. I've heard of it. If you were to ask me to draw him, I would have drawn him with that suit on.
00:18:25
Speaker
Even though the title of the movie spelled Betelgeuse, the actual spelling of his name is B E T E L G E U S E. So looks like it would be pronounced like Betelgeuse, which is actually a bright red star in the constellation of Orion. That's what the character was named after. Yeah, the only thing I know about that star is that is very big. Nice. Thank you for the astronomy. Yes. Beetlejuice is a super perv. ah Immediately. Immediately. He just jumps right into it, which another shocking reason why this movie is PG.
00:19:03
Speaker
ah Why do you know how to pick up? Let me ask you something. Is this relationship really solid? Do I have a shot at her at all? He's a super perv and he does not stop being a super perv. No. Like I said earlier, I don't think you're supposed to like the character of Beetlejuice, but Michael Keaton is so likable and funny in it that it it really makes you conflicted. Like you don't want him to obviously win in the end, but you still are like, I like this guy. Like I want to see more of him. Totally.
00:19:28
Speaker
Hence, a sequel. i had a question about beettlegeuse just like what is he like he's obviously some sort of being you know is he a ghost was he human that died just like the way he's able to like travel through dimensions i don't even know like is he more than that it's an interesting question because i do agree i do think he's more than that but he does describe himself as i'm the ghost with the most babe yeah right right So he calls himself a ghost, right? But the rules that he adheres to are different than the rules that the other ghosts in the film adhere to. Yeah, is it like he's been around for so long that like, you know, because like some of the other characters like don't know how to be ghosts. He's a ghost, but he's like a next level ghost. Yeah, he's like one step up. So even though Beetlejuice is the title character, he actually doesn't appear in full in the movie until 25 minutes in and only appears on screen in about 14 and a half minutes of it. That's crazy to me because it feels like so much longer. because Because they talk about him so much leading up to it. And then once he's introduced, even the scenes he's not in it, his presence is still felt. Yeah, but Michael Keaton only spent like two weeks filming this role. Man, what a gig. I know. And it helped change the trajectory of his career. Keaton actually ad-libbed about 90% of his lines. He's got some really good ones. Go ahead.
00:20:43
Speaker
make my millennium. I love that line. Burton originally wanted Sammy Davis Jr., who was a favorite star of his when he was a kid, to play the role, but the studio execs didn't like that idea. This one's fun. At one point Burton considered Arnold Schwarzenegger for the role of Beetlejuice. He turned it down because he was shooting The Running Man, which is a really fun movie. But I don't see how that would have worked. No. So then we've got Alec Baldwin as Adam Maitland. Baldwin, big star. You can IMDB him. One of our first intros to him is he's guiding a spider outside. Alex, when you see a spider in your house, do you guide it outside so it can live its life in prosperity or do you end its life? I move. That's why I moved to Texas. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. ah Alec Baldwin actually dislikes the film and was unhappy with his performance. So cool. As you mentioned, we have Gina Davis as Barbara Maitland. You may know Gina Davis, The Selma and Louise, but also A League of Their Own. Oh, I love that movie. Kirstie Alley was the first choice to play the role of Barbara, but she wasn't allowed out of her contract from the show. Cheers. Jeffrey Jones plays Charles Dietz. If his face looks familiar, it's because he was in Ferris Bueller's Day Off. He's the principal. That's right. Katherine O'Hara as Delia Dietz. Katherine O'Hara, Kevin McAllister's mom in Home Alone. Angelica Huston was originally meant to be Delia, but she was ill, couldn't come in for filming. Angelica Huston is the person that played Morticia from The Addams Family. I think Katherine O'Hara did an awesome job. I think she's very underappreciated in so much of what she does, and I think we talked about that when we did the Home Alone episode. Katherine O'Hara actually met her future husband, who is production designer Bo Welch while making the movie.
00:22:23
Speaker
So we've got the four main characters not counting Beetlejuice. It's Adam, Barbara, Charles, Delia. They're all named alphabetically, ABCD, which is a fun little screenwriting thing. We have Winona Ryder as Lydia Deets. So she is in both of these movies. She's actually done four Tim Burton movies. A lot of actresses turned down this role. We've got Lori Laughlin, Diane Lane, Sarah Jessica Parker, Brooke Shields, Justine Bateman, Molly Ringwald, and Jennifer Connelly. Pretty big list. A lot of big names on there.
Casting Choices and Cultural References
00:22:51
Speaker
And then Juliette Lewis auditioned for the role of Lydia as well. But it primarily came down to Winona Ryder and Alyssa Milano. And then we've got Robert Goulet. He plays Maxi Dean. It's funny. So you had Vincent Price in Edward Scissorhands. We've got Robert Goulet in this. You and I are a little young. um We're not younger, but we're younger in compared to the times when these movies came out. The things I know Robert Goulet and Vincent Price most from are Saturday Night Live. So when Will Ferrell plays Robert Goulet and then Bill Hader would always do Vincent Price impressions. Wait, wait, wait. Was Robert Goulet in an episode of Boy Meets World when they do the wrestling yup with Yasmine Blythe? Oh, man. All right. What connections do you have for us this week?
00:23:33
Speaker
Well, I mean, it's weird how connected Seinfeld is to Edward Scissorhands. One of the husbands from Edward Scissorhands is Biff Yeager, and he plays one of the more famous one-off characters in Seinfeld, the old gym teacher, Mr. Heyman, the crazy religious lady, O'Lan Jones. She plays the waitress in the Bubble Boy episode. Oh, wow. And then even Glenn Shattuck, who plays Arthur, he is like a random, like a super for one of their buildings one episode. There's also an episode where one of the major plot lines is based around Edward Scissorhands. They talk about how Jerry goes to this barber named Enzo and he gives him terrible haircuts. So Kramer says, you should go in right now because Enzo's not working and his nephew Gino is and Gino gives the best haircuts.
00:24:17
Speaker
So he shows up but Enzo is actually there and is like, hey, it's my day off but I'm gonna cut your hair anyway. Gives him a terrible haircut. So now Kramer and Gino, so Gino as we know is the nephew, plan to get a haircut for Jerry. They're trying to like be quiet about it without Enzo hearing. When Enzo enters the room, they change the subject and they start talking about Edward Scissorhands and then Enzo gets so mad, he's like, You're always talking about that movie. like It's a terrible movie. And then he goes, did you ever think about what he would do when he's on the toilet? like He's like fired up. Jerry goes to Geno's apartment to get a secret haircut. Enzo then shows up. And so Jerry has to go hide. And he shows up because he says, hey, I just rented Edward Scissorhands. It's the greatest movie ever at Johnny Depp.
00:24:56
Speaker
made me cry and then while he's there he notices that there's a clump of hair and he's like this hair looks familiar so he has Newman sneak into Jerry's apartment get some of his hair to compare while he sneaks in Jerry is watching Edward Scissorhands and so comes to the apartment to confront him while Geno is there and they're gonna fight they look at the TV at the same time and they bond over Edward Scissorhands That's ridiculous. Also, I think I could have watched the episode. You could have. have died like It is such a big part of the episode that it's so funny to like now look back on because they don't show it, but they like like the clipping sounds and every time they do, they the the two barbers are just like, they can't stop watching. Okay, round one, best cast. I mean, both casts are really, really good. Keaton as Beetlejuice is so memorable, but Depp as Edward Scissorhands is really memorable. So then you keep going down the list. Catherine O'Hara, Alec Baldwin, Gina Davis. I think the lineup's a little deeper on the Beetlejuice side. And the fact Keaton's in such a small part of the movie and is so iconic and memorable throughout pop culture now, I think we gotta go Beetlejuice for this one. I agree. I'd go Beetlejuice. Okay, Beetlejuice takes a one-nothing lead heading into round two. Best moments.
00:26:10
Speaker
Edward Scissorhands is, I think, where we can say that Tim Burton starts to really become Tim Burton. He started Burton-ing. Yeah. We're gonna start using that as a verb. The opening credits, they're weird. Throws you right in it. Everything about that sequence is captivating. Set designs are great. They're intriguing. You got the mix of goth with Edward and the Inventor Live, and then you have the neighborhood. Every house is one color. Everything on the house is one color. The car, one color.
00:26:37
Speaker
The neighborhood is like its own character. You know me, I care about the story and the acting a little bit more than the other stuff, but the set design, the feel, the tone of this movie, I get it. It adds to it for me. And the fact that you have these yellow, pink, blue, green houses where everything on the house is that color, the door, the trim, everything. It's so stark in contrast to where Edward lives up in that broken down castle.
00:27:03
Speaker
And one thing I read someone had said online just this like picture perfect neighborhood is so much more unsettling and creepy than the gothic castle where Edward Scissorhands lives. And I was like, that is so true. One of the other things I saw about the neighborhood is it's based off of Burton's hometown of Burbank, California. And the houses used in the film were actually a real community in Florida. That's where they filmed it. Everything was unchanged, except they did paint them all one color. Interesting.
Edward Scissorhands: Story Breakdown
00:27:29
Speaker
Can you imagine just like driving around and seeing that? It's really unsettling, like you said. We open with an old lady talking to her granddaughter. Later, we find out that is actually Kim, so Winona Ryder's character, when she is much older. Where they are, it's currently snowing out, and then the little girl asks where does snow come from. you know It starts with scissors, so that's where we get into the story of Edward Scissorhands.
00:27:49
Speaker
I'm watching that. I was thinking about it afterwards. If my parents told my young kid a story like Edward Scissorhands, I don't know if I would leave them unsupervised with the child anymore. be Like, yeah, we're done now. Let me tell you where Snow came from. So we pushed this dude out of a window and he died. It kind of reminded me a little bit in like a creepier way of that lady on the Titanic.
00:28:10
Speaker
Yeah, the whole story of the Titanic is her point of view and all that. OK, so we're introduced to Peg. She's the Avon lady, as we mentioned, and she is just making her way down the street. And she's like, ah you know, I'm going to go up to the creepy castle and she just drives through the broken gate and then she's on the property. And, you know, when she gets up there, she can see that it's not really at least on the outside like the grounds. It's not creepy. It's beautiful. It's beautiful, but very creepy when you're in the castle.
00:28:36
Speaker
So like outside, you know, you have the topiaries, like the big hedges that are trimmed in different shapes. The giant hand, last one, which I thought was a really interesting touch. But then she just goes in, which personally, I would not do that. One, isn't that illegal? I don't think you just walk into someone's house. Two, isn't that just terrifying? Like you're walking into an abandoned house. And then she just immediately goes up. Yeah. Like I want to walk deeper into this house.
00:28:59
Speaker
Which is where she then meets Edward for the first time. And she sees, you know, he sleeps on a bed of hay. There's holes in the roof. He is very disheveled. And her reaction is to say, come home with me. Yeah, no, not creepy at all. I mean, I do love the scene with her driving him. He points and almost like takes her face off and her reaction is great. He sees something out the window and he wants to look at it closer, but he has to sit on the car window. Yeah, yeah. Well, then she brings him home and then she's the Avon lady. So she sees the scars. She's like, well, I got just the thing for that. So she starts putting all the stuff on him. The one where she's like, this one has a little lavender in it and like his face turns purple. And then you know, families together, they're eating dinner the whole time. Like she's just speaking. And then every few words, she's like, Kevin, and she'll keep talking. Kevin, don't stare. Kevin. I was happy. They showed like one of the first things they did was show Edward trying to eat because that was one of my first thoughts was how does this guy eat? Like you want to understand his function um and it's like, well, he doesn't eat very well. That's the answer.
00:29:53
Speaker
Does he even need to? Maybe he's just being polite. Kevin does make up comment about, Oh, I wish I could bring him into show and tell at school, which he does. That's a funny scene. In his very funny. Yes. Yeah. He just cuts the paper. Yeah. And then it turns out to be like this great little paper doll thing. Definitely one of my favorite scenes. So he's staying in Kim's room and she has a water bed, which he's a water bed. I think my parents used to have a water bed. Yeah, when Kim comes home, and he's the whole time, it's like, you can see him in the bed, you know that she can't. And he's just like, he's sitting with his hands up, and then she screams, and then he pops the bed, yeah, that whole part's great. So Bill's like, he's gonna give him a drink. So he's like, Oh, it's lemonade, but it's not. And he gets hammered. He drinks it so fast through a straw and gets so drunk. Yeah. And like the next day he's like cutting hedges or something and the lady's like, do you want some lemonade? And he just pukes and dukes everywhere. Yeah. So yeah, the next day he's outside, he starts trimming the hedges and then gives one of the dogs a haircuts and everyone wants their dogs to get trim. And then he starts cutting the lady's hair. Everyone is just like in awe, like, Oh, anything when he trimmed. My favorite parts of the entire movie are when he's cutting something. Yeah. Like every time he's doing the super fast, like,
00:31:08
Speaker
And you see it flying up. I could have watched an entire movie of just that because it's so cool. I loved how consistent those scenes were, but just like the material flying up just changed. And I did also like, like at certain points, he'd just be walking and then he would give like one Bush at one little like trim. And then we, you know, we get into the ice sculpture scene where he's carving the ice and appears like it's snowing. And Kim's doing the dancing under it.
00:31:30
Speaker
Yeah, that's another one of those scenes that I guess the first time you watch it, you're just like, Oh, wow, this is really beautiful. But when you know what happens, you're just waiting for it. And so when I was watching it this time, I obviously know what happens. and You're just sitting there waiting for it. So uneasy. Yeah. Because then he accidentally cuts Kim and then everyone just overreacts and he doesn't really understand socially how to act. So he's trying to help, but he just makes things worse. Yeah. It's like a recurring theme of that happening. It starts with him during that break-in scene. The cops are like, put down your weapons and he can, but he's not really vocal, so he doesn't on know what to do. And then it escalates to the scene with Kim. He cuts Kim's hand, he's trying to help, but it just makes it worse. And then I'm sure you'll mention it, but the scene where he saves Kevin, and then it gets like really bad. He saves his life. Yeah. But then he's on top. And so it appears like he's actually attacking and hurting him. yeah And just the uneasiness you feel because you're like he's not trying to do anything wrong, but he doesn't know how to behave in these situations. So then, you know, he he's kind of like leaves the scene because he's not really sure what to do. And then he goes to the crazy lady, the religious lady, and he carves like this horned like devil creature. And she goes to the window and like opens the blinds and freaks out. It's a good payoff. It's a good joke.
00:32:39
Speaker
Yeah, so then we get, you know, the climax. Jim and his friend are hammered. Jim is saying like, we need to go over to Kim's house. They do, and obviously not driving very safely. And Kevin is crossing the road and almost gets hit, but Edward has the sense of the situation enough that he can run and save him. But in doing so, he injures him. I mean, the whole last like 25 minutes is really just like the climax building and intensifying, intensifying and intensifying. He saves Kevin, then he runs off. The police are coming, goes to the castle. The town kind of like chases him there. Yeah, the angry mob. And then yeah Jim has a gun. So Jim's like, um he gonna Jim's just going to murder him, which then leads to his death because Edward is there to protect him. And he puts one of his scissor hands right through him. And then he falls a few stories to his death. It's a unique
Beetlejuice: Story Breakdown
00:33:27
Speaker
ending.
00:33:27
Speaker
Yeah, it kind of reminds me of like a Frankenstein sponsor type thing. Can he ever exist harmoniously with humans? Sad. You know, it is sad near the end. It does give you all the feelings. Yeah. Kim, as the grandma said, she never saw him again. Yeah. but That's at least 60 years later. It is a sad ending. Yeah, it takes a turn. The whole idea for the movie was actually inspired by a drawing that Tim Burton did when he was a teenager. So the drawing depicts a thin, solemn man with long, sharp blades for fingers. And he explains that this character represents him as he was in his teenage years and how the film represents much of his time growing up, kind of more of like an outcast.
00:34:05
Speaker
One of his quotes actually is, he says, when I first started drawing the character, there were more sharp instruments and the emotional thrust of it was a character who couldn't touch, a character who had emotions, who wanted to feel things, but because of the sharpness of his fingers, couldn't actually touch somebody. Even reading and hearing some of his quotes, like, oh man, like, geez. He put a lot of his own heart and soul into this. You can definitely feel that and you can sense that. No, that's cool. Okay, Beetlejuice. So we open up in Winter River, Connecticut. I know your wife, Abby, is from Connecticut. You ever been to Winter River, Alex? I don't know if Winter River exists. No, it's not a real place. It was actually filmed in East Corinth, Vermont. It does look way more like a Vermont town than ah a Connecticut town.
00:34:46
Speaker
I do really like the opening transition from the real town to the model. Very cool. So you get the Maitland's were introduced to them. They go into town on their staycation coming back. Dog runs in front of them. They swerve out of the way, crash off the bridge. They end up drowning. What a terrible way to die trapped in your car. I'm terrified of driving over bridges. And so this just like fed into that fear. There's actually this bridge in San Diego that goes from like San Diego to Coronado and it's one of the scariest things that I've ever driven over. It gets up to 200 feet tall because it just goes straight up so that the big ships can drive under it. And there's not a huge wall on the side. So like it's very frightening. That's like when we drove from Massachusetts to Texas, like a lot of Louisiana is like these weird, like elevated roads. And when we were driving, a jeep had actually gone over the side and was like upside down in like the bayou underneath. And I was like, get me out of here. No, thanks.
00:35:43
Speaker
So in one of the original scripts, Adam and Barbara's deaths were more graphic. When they crashed into the bridge, Barbara's arm actually got crushed. And though their deaths were presented in the movie is like toned down, not as graphic as in the original script. There is a line of dialogue when they get back to the house where Adam asks Barbara, how's your arm? And she says, I don't know. It feels frozen. And this is taken directly from that. And I remember when I watched, I heard that I was a little confused. I was like, why are they talking about her arm? That's very weird. Kind of a weird thing to leave in when you cut all of that other stuff. Right. Also, I guess this is kind of a joke, but the Maitland's car had a bumper sticker that says, I break for animals. and That's pretty good. Another little in joke. So the car the Maitland's drove was actually kind of its own joke. So at the time the movie was made, the reputation for the 240 series Volvos was that of the safest car in the world. Reportedly, no one had been killed in a Volvo of that series. So for like the eight
00:36:41
Speaker
people that saw this movie that also knew that fact about Volvos and noticed the car, they must have had a real chuckle. and right The intro to the new homeowners and Ojo going right into the house redesign, they do a really good job of developing the personalities of these characters in a really short time.
00:36:59
Speaker
So then the Maitlands, they go to like the help area for dead people to try to figure out what to do, even though they have a book that they could read and they just are like, it's too confusing. Read the book. I do like that area and that part of the movie, though. So you've got the football team that shows up. They don't understand that they're dead.
00:37:17
Speaker
There's a voice over the PA system that says flight 409 is arriving at gate three. This is another one of those like, I didn't get this reference, but I'm sure at the time it made more sense. It's also pretty sad, but United Airlines flight 409 crashed into a mountain in Wyoming on October 6th, 1955. And at the time it was one of the worst plane crashes in history. I liked the scene when the Maitland's try to scare the Deets is the first time. I think the effects are pretty cool. So like Barbara rips her face off. It's like cartoonishly fun. It's got that Burton style to it. Yeah, it almost reminds me even like of like the mask that kind of like over the top stylized. Yeah, it was very fun. One of the best scenes in the movie is just the intro to Beetlejuice. The Maitland's are digging up the model to get the grave out, which I think is like a cool touch, like they're digging up plastic and cork and the fake grass. And then there are like teases of Beetlejuice throughout the beginning of the movie, but you don't really see him in full glory until he shows up here. He's not allowed to say his own name, but he's trying to convince them to say it and like sell himself on it. And they're basically like, what are your qualifications? And he gets a little annoyed and he goes into that like. Ah, well, I attended Juilliard. I'm a graduate of the Harvard Business School. I travel quite extensively. I lived through the Black Plague and I had a pretty good time during that. I've seen The Exorcist about 167 times! And I keep getting funnier every single time I see it! Not to mention the fact that you're talking to a dead guy! Now what do you think?!
00:38:40
Speaker
This movie needed more Michael Keaton. It did. Now that I think of it. Then he does like the, is this scary enough for you? They show it from the back view, but it's a pretty famous scene where the worms are coming out yeah or whatever of the side. So then there's that scene where Beetlejuice eats the fly when he's going back into like the grave. So this is a tribute to the horror film, The Fly, which Gina Davis actually starred in. Michael Keaton himself was actually offered the lead role in The Fly, but turned it down. So when Beetlejuice is eating The Fly, it begins yelling, help me. Gina Davis is soon to be husband, Jeff Goldblum, who starred in it, actually uttered that same line as he transformed into the human fly in that movie. So I always like those little like in references. Me too.
00:39:19
Speaker
We've got to mention the dinner scene, the dayo dance lip sync scene when the Maitland's finally possessed them, which does not go to plan because they do not get scared by it at all. I love if you like notice when on a rider just standing in the corner laughing in amazement at what's going on. Burton actually thought the dayo sequence wouldn't go over very well, but he was wrong. Audiences loved it and they think of it as one of the film's best scenes.
00:39:43
Speaker
Then last scene that I really like is Beetlejuice comes out to marry Lydia. But then to stop it, the sandworm gets him. Barbara rides it like she's in freaking Dune. It's a good set up because Beetlejuice mentions multiple times that he hates sandworms.
Comparative Analysis of Both Films
00:39:58
Speaker
And Barbara, we see earlier in the movie, actually gets a good punch on one the first time we're introduced to it.
00:40:03
Speaker
And then in that like forced wedding, Lydia's dress is bright red. And according to an old rhyme about wedding dress colors, married in red, better off dead, which Beetlejuice makes sense. This is close. Yeah. I think it works that there's not that much Michael Keaton in Beetlejuice, but it also limits. We could possibly get more moments out of it. I think the character of Beetlejuice is probably more iconic.
00:40:25
Speaker
But I think the actions of Edward Scissorhands is probably more known, like just the scissor sniffing and the things flying. I think if we had gotten more screen time for Beetlejuice, we might be talking about something different. But Edward Scissorhands, there's so many parts of it that you would know if you'd never seen the movie. OK, one to one, heading into round three, better title or soundtrack.
00:40:50
Speaker
So Danny Elfman actually composed the music for both of these movies, and he's composed the music for all of Burton's movies, except for three of them. You might know Danny Elfman as the lead singer of Oingo Boingo, but he's done some really notable scores. Batman, Nightmare Before Christmas, Men in Black, Good Will Hunting, Spider-Man.
00:41:08
Speaker
Do you know that Oingo Boingo had a song called Weird Science, which was actually from the movie Weird Science, which featured Anthony Michael Hall. So there you go. Nice little tie in there. It's a great song. Weird Science. It's about, yeah, a creature being created. So it kind of gave me some Edward Scissorhands vibes too. So what's interesting is that Danny Elfman, this is actually his favorite score that he's done. That is interesting because he's done some really known scores. Yeah. Which like immediately when the opening sequence starts and you hear the music, it's just so good. It is really good. Beetlejuice is good too. Both of these are really well known, but Edward Scissorhand, it ties into the movie's theme really well. Exactly. Yeah, it definitely like enhances what you're watching. Music can set the tone so easily from the very start. like One of my very first notes when watching it was the score. like ah That's all I wrote. I was like, nails it. Not really much else in terms of music, but we do get It's Not Unusual by Tom Jones, also known as the Carlton Dance. I do love that. Anytime I hear that song, I'm always like,
00:42:06
Speaker
That's the audio, but I'm trying to do the Carlton dance. so yeah And then, the you know, the title, Edward Scissorhands, pretty straightforward. Pretty straightforward. It's just his name. But also, it's catchy because if you don't know anything about the movie and someone's like, what do you want to see? Edward Scissorhands. You're intrigued. You at least want to know what a movie called Edward Scissorhands is about.
00:42:22
Speaker
Whereas the Beetlejuice title, so Beetlejuice, the title is spelled differently than how his actual name is spelled. So it's spelled more like Betelgeuse, but Burton changed it for the title because they thought Beetlejuice spelled J-U-I-C-E was funnier and marketed better. And I have to agree with him. Yeah. Kind of like Edward Scissorhands. You're like, what's that about? You see Beetlejuice. You're like, Beetlejuice, like you're at least intrigued.
00:42:46
Speaker
Studio originally wanted to call the film house ghosts. And then as a joke, Burton suggested the name scared sheet lists, but was terrified when the studio was like, actually, that's not bad. Beetlejuice has a few decent songs though. So you've got that song that's like shake, shake, shake, Sonora, you know, whatever that's called. and We mentioned earlier the dayo song, which.
00:43:06
Speaker
I like how they play it distorted in the beginning when actor Glenn Shaddix, who plays Otho, actually died in 2010. The last song performed at his memorial service was Dayo. That's a nice little nod. I don't know. It's interesting because like I think the score is a little better in Edward Scissorhands, although the Beetlejuice score is still really good. I think the music used in Beetlejuice is better. And then so I think it comes down to the titles. They're both pretty straightforward, but I lean Beetlejuice because of the fact that they changed the spelling specifically for the title yeah to get more people to go see it. And it worked. And it's just more fun to say. All right. So we're going to give this one to Beetlejuice. We are two to one heading into round four, plot holes, cringiness, random questions.
00:43:51
Speaker
So you would think in a movie about ghosts or a man with scissors for hands, there'd be like a lot of plot holes, but Burton actually does a good job of covering a lot of the illogicalness of his movies. They're pretty well written and they're all like set in these kind of fantasy type world land type things. So it excuses for a lot of it, but there's definitely still some things that we can point out. So plot holes for Edward Scissorhands.
00:44:16
Speaker
I want to open this up with my top questions about Edward Scissorhands, the person. One, why make him with Scissorhands? Why not just make him with no hands? Two, how do you make a man? Three, how does Edward go to the bathroom? Or what is he if he doesn't go to the bathroom?
00:44:31
Speaker
Four, they imply his clothes are like permanently attached to him, but they also show him eating. So like, where does the food go? How is it processed? Five, he doesn't age at all. So like, does he even need to eat? Mm hmm. Same thing, like does he need to sleep? Right. Six. At the end of the movie, he's shown carving ice blocks enough to cover an entire town in snow. Where's he getting the ice blocks big enough to cover a town? And how is he getting them up to the top of a castle?
00:44:58
Speaker
That's the first thing I thought of when I was like, was this ice guy? Yeah. Who's this ice guy? How's he paying for this? This is small, but when Edward trims the hedges most of the time, they are taller when he's done than when he started. And then here's one. When Edward first enters the Boggs home, he accidentally pokes a hole in Kim's water bed and then covers it up with a stuffed animal, which wouldn't stop yeah a water bed. But later that night, he's just sleeping in the same water bed and it's fine. It's not leaking. Yeah.
00:45:24
Speaker
A little cringiness. I know this was done on purpose. You just don't really hear the movies anymore, but they did say the R word. It's used to try to make. I think it's a gym that says it and he's supposed to be the jerk. So like it works, but it's still one of those things where you just don't hear that. It is shocking when
Plot Holes and Unanswered Questions
00:45:38
Speaker
you do hear it. Couple of random questions. So this is something it weirdly bothers me and I just need to point it out. So when we're watching the inventor's cookie machine. Eggs are broken into this big bowl and they're on the conveyor belt and they go down and there are these two beaters that run automatically. But the way that they drop down, they're only hitting the side of the bowl. And when they're turned on and then they go back up, there's no egg or anything on them. So they're clearly not actually mixing anything. Nothing yet dripping or anything. Yeah. It's a cool visual to have the two beaters going down, but like, I would have been happy with just one in the middle, like all other beaters.
00:46:10
Speaker
This is a question that I have. There's probably going to be a little bit more investigation into the death of of a really rich kid who fell out of a window. Probably, yeah. Everyone just sees him and like walks away like, what? Are they like, who did that? They're just like, Jim's dead. yeah All right. Merry Christmas. Found to happen. And then this is a question that only my parents can answer, but how was I allowed to watch this movie as a child? That's a very good question.
00:46:35
Speaker
I was watching it this time and just thinking like, this was not appropriate for me to be watching at like five years old or whatever. Yeah, right. It's a great movie, but still. All right. What do you got? All right. Got some plot holes for Beetlejuice. So for the first like three quarters of the movie, the Maitland's, they just don't know what they're doing. Just read the book. Like they got a book that just tells them everything. It's right there. Here's the question. Why is Beetlejuice so small? Like what type of curse, punishment, whatever is this for him? I wish we got a little bit more explanation. How was he in their model? Like so he can move himself and appear different places, but yeah only in certain graves. And I just wanted a little bit more backstory on that. I wanted to know the rules a little bit more with him. Like they find a piece of paper that like mentions him and then the commercials like on the TV and then they talk to their caseworker. She's like, don't get involved with him. He used to work for me.
00:47:27
Speaker
Well, I guess in the beginning they show him reading the paper and it's showing that they died. So I think that's insinuating he's targeting them. But my question is, what if they didn't have a model? Exactly what I was thinking. I don't know. Yeah. What is he bound by? What are his rules? Yeah. I want the rule book. Maybe it's in the book. It probably is.
00:47:46
Speaker
All right. So early in the movie, we see that the Maitland's have no reflection in the mirror. Barbara holds up the horse and they can see the horse, but they can't see her hand or or them in it, whatever. But later in the movie, when they try to scare Delia and also she's holding a knife to make it look like she cut Adam's head off. Yeah, they can't see her, but wouldn't they have seen the knife? ah You would think so. And again, that's like another one of those, like, what are the rules of the physical world? Yeah, I think that was a little misstep there.
00:48:10
Speaker
Okay, so towards the end of the film, Barbara is starting to stop the wedding of Beetlejuice and Lydia by saying his name three times. So she says his name once and then she pauses, which gives him time to act and come up with a counter plan. She should have just said it three times quickly. Just say it fast. Like when she did when he was a giant snake, so he wouldn't have time to do anything. I mean, I know that's like a very popular like movie trope. You give too much time for something. I know. But yeah, she shows up and she's like, Beetlejuice!
00:48:44
Speaker
Yeah, and you're like, come on. OK, so some cringyness, Beetlejuice wanting to marry a teenage girl. we We know he's like a perv, but like, come on. Now, maybe he was from like, I don't know, the 1500s, and that was acceptable back then.
00:48:57
Speaker
True. All right. Here is a question for you. We learn that when they are in that waiting area and then they return that time doesn't move the same way as it does in the earthly realm. So couldn't they have just waited there, like hung out there and then like gone back. And then it would have been like years and years later.
00:49:13
Speaker
You would think that would have been a loophole. Who knows? I don't know. Both of these have really good points. The fact that the Maitland's like wouldn't read the book is big. To me though, so many of my questions about Edward Scissorhands was just about him. There's so much that we didn't know about him. Obviously that was the point. But what I liked about Beetlejuice was there were rules within this realm and they were all outlined in that book that they're supposed to read. Now, while we weren't privy to the book, it was there.
00:49:40
Speaker
I would have liked to have known a little bit more of the parameters about this being that was created and how he operated. yeah That stands out more to me as having a lot more, maybe they're not plot holes, but just questions about how things worked in the film versus the stuff from Beetlejuice. I don't know if you've ever seen the show, Ghost, hilarious show. It's about this couple who inherits a house that's filled with ghosts, but they often talk about, they can walk through walls. So like they'll mention, they're like, wait, we can walk through walls, but we can lay on a couch. Like why? You know, like they bring a lot of that stuff up, which I love. yeah And they're they're always questioning their own limits.
00:50:16
Speaker
but so there are rules within that world. Exactly. And that's where I'm at, like there are clearly rules within the ghost realm of Beetlejuice. Yep. And there's an explanation for it in the handbook. Whereas Edward Scissorhands, no one asks Edward these questions. I think we're going to give this point to Beetlejuice. Yeah. So that's three to one heading into round five, our miscellaneous question of the week. Who would do a better job? Michael Keaton as Edward Scissorhands or Johnny Depp as Beetlejuice?
00:50:46
Speaker
Michael Keaton has definitely played some characters that would be an interesting role for him to take on with Edward Scissorhands. But I think Johnny Depp, especially with his ties to Tim Burton, I think he would be an excellent Beetlejuice.
00:51:01
Speaker
Edward Scissorhands, the way that it was portrayed, was not a lot of talking. Michael Keaton is definitely an actor known more for his talking. Johnny Depp has played various centric characters before. He's played Willy Wonka, Sweeney Todd, Jack Sparrow. I think he could have done the Beetlejuice role. I love Michael Keaton in it. I think Michael Keaton is the best Beetlejuice we could have had, but Johnny Depp could have brought his own unique skill set to it, and it would have probably have been very good. Agreed. So, since Johnny Depp was in Edward Scissorhands, we're giving this point to Edward Scissorhands. Round six, better trivia.
00:51:35
Speaker
Johnny Depp and Winona Ryder actually dated throughout the filming of Edward Scissorhands, and they became engaged later that year. In an interview with People, Johnny Depp said, there's been nothing in my 27 years that's comparable to the feeling I have with Winona. He famously confirmed his sentiment by having the words, Winona forever tattooed on his right bicep. It ain't going nowhere, he said. Unfortunately, it did end up going somewhere because Depp reworded the tattoo following their split. Instead of saying, Winona forever, he changed it to say, Wino forever.
00:52:05
Speaker
yeah Okay, it ain't going nowhere. well it did Okay, I know you're a big community fan. I am. So the TV show Community, which aired over 20 years after the release of Beetlejuice staged an elaborate but extremely subtle multi-year tribute to the movie. During the first three seasons of the show, a character said the word Beetlejuice once a season.
00:52:25
Speaker
Until just after the third season mentioned, so the third time saying Beetlejuice, an extra in a Beetlejuice Halloween costume walks by in the background. Obviously this is a reference to, if you say Beetlejuice's name three times, he will appear. And that is dedication. And I love it. That is so community. Well, I hate to break it to you, but Edward's amazing hedges are not, they are welded steel armature wrapped with chicken wire with artificial greens punched in. I mean, yeah, he wasn't actually, he didn't really have scissors for hands. So in Beetlejuice, the number three is used several times. The number of times to say commands, Beetlejuice or home, the number of times to knock on the door, to get to the other side of that afterlife place, the number of first class.
00:53:08
Speaker
Intercessions allotted. When moving in, Delia also mentions a missing sculpture. Why are there only three? There should be four. The Maitland's also spent three months in the waiting room for help from Juno the first time they're there. And Lydia knocks three times on the attic after the dinner party scene. Lastly, Otho Fenlock was named after Otho, a Roman emperor of only three months who served his emperor from January 15th to April 16th, 69 AD. So three big theme in Beetlejuice. I see your three and I raise you five. Five is a recurring number in Edward Scissorhands, likely because most of the drama is centered around Edward's lack of fingers. Five fingers. A disproportionately high number of characters have either five letter names or names that start with an E, which is the fifth letter. In the pivotal burglary scene, Edward is wearing that baseball hat we talked about with the V on it and V is the Roman numeral for five. I knew that. I knew V meant five. That's all my Latin coming back if you didn't know. Good job. You know what's interesting about the three and the five references in Beetlejuice and Edward Scissorhands? If you only look at the movies that Tim Burton directed, Beetlejuice is actually the third movie he directed and Edward Scissorhands is the fifth movie he directed.
00:54:22
Speaker
I don't know if that was intentional or not. He had directed tons of other stuff. He'd done shorts and some TV stuff, but he did a TV movie in 1983 called Hansel and Gretel. Then his second movie was Peewee's Big Adventure. Third, Beetlejuice. Fourth, Batman. Fifth, Edward Scissorhands. Coincidence or not? Here's a fun one for you, Alex. Beetlejuice was the first DVD sent out by Netflix in 1998.
Beetlejuice Sequel and Tim Burton's Legacy
00:54:44
Speaker
That sounds like trivia night at the bar. That's great. I don't know if he gave me a hundred guesses. I would have guessed that. No, I mean, there's some good trivia here. I know this will end the competition, but you love community. That's a really fun bit of trivia. And then Beetlejuice being the first DVD sent out by Netflix. I mean, those are good. That is trivia in its finest.
00:55:03
Speaker
Yeah, I know. The number ones are fun. The fact that they both have them, I can't you know lean more than the other. But man, that Netflix one. So we're going to give that to Beetlejuice, who will win the Burton Bowl with that point. But let's just play it out. Let's see who takes round seven. Better story, script, or more fun.
00:55:22
Speaker
Burton has said he never intends to make a sequel to Edward Scissorhands as it would rob the film of its purity. Apparently, he didn't feel that way about Beetlejuice. I'm very excited to see the Beetlejuice sequel. Me too. I hope there's more than just like eight minutes of Michael Keaton in it. i Imagine that he's in one scene. The initial success of Beetlejuice actually created plans for a sequel that was going to come out in the 90s. It was called Beetlejuice Goes Hawaiian, but Burton lost interest in the project. But we're getting a sequel now. He does not go to Hawaii in it. at least to my knowledge. I believe they're back in the original house. What a weird premise. Usually this category is the decision maker because we're all about fun on this podcast. It's clear when you watch these two movies, the more fun movie is Beetlejuice. But this category isn't just fun. It's better story and script. And I think we have to look at the filmmaking aspects too. And when I'm thinking about both of these movies, Edward Scissorhands makes me feel more. And I notice more of the directing in it, the set designs. ye You feel more of Tim Burton putting himself in this movie. And so while I think Beetlejuice is more fun, I think all of those other areas go towards Edward Scissorhands. So I would give this category actually to Edward Scissorhands. And I would too. And it is really cool to see how much he put of himself into that movie. Yeah. Yeah. but They're so original. They're so him with a piece of himself in it. And to have a movie this conceptual do that, I think is really cool.
00:56:55
Speaker
OK, so Beetlejuice wins the Burton Bowl, but round seven goes to Edward Scissorhands. Both these movies are fantastic. They really are. You know, watching Tim Burton movies now, you're just like, man, he is so creative. What a mind.
Final Scores and Reflections
00:57:08
Speaker
When I was a kid watching Burton movies, I didn't really know much about the director's artistic vision. I loved the Nightmare Before Christmas, loved the first Batman movie and Batman Returns. I mean, right behind me is the VHS of Batman.
00:57:22
Speaker
I'll still sit here and defend his Willy Wonka, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory movie. Now, as an adult, looking back on it, you really can appreciate the artistic side of what Tim Burton is doing. And that's something like for me to say is a lot because I don't care at all about that. Even hearing you say it, it's like, OK, like, wow, this really made ah an impact. All right. Give me your rankings for these two movies.
00:57:43
Speaker
So I'm going to go Edward Scissorhands in 84 and Beetlejuice in 82. I am going to go Edward Scissorhands in 80 and Beetlejuice in 82. Nice. If you're listening to this, check out the new Beetlejuice movie, Beetlejuice Beetlejuice. We don't get anything if you go see it, but just go to the movies. I'm glad that it's actually in the theaters and not just streaming. Well, this has been The Movie Showdown with Rock and Rob. Make sure to like, subscribe, rate, and review all that fun stuff. And follow us on all the socials at Rock and Rob Show. Until next time, peace. I'm out of here. That was the single most thrilling experience of my whole life. I love it.