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Whelmed: 10 Things I Hate About You vs. She’s All That
240 Plays1 year ago
It’s prom season so Rock & Rob thought it was time to dust off their tuxes, buy a corsage (why is this a thing?), and revisit two of their favorite high school rom coms: 10 Things I Hate About You (1999) and She’s All That (1999). Grab your Walkman and listen in as these movies are put through seven rounds of questions to determine which will be our Prom King or Queen. Along the way, Rock & Rob discuss important issues of the time such as Heath Ledger, Hanson and people hating on people that wear glasses for no reason.
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Welcome
00:00:00
Speaker
Ladies and gentlemen, can I please have your attention? Brothers don't shake hands. Brothers gotta hug. Your voice is like a combination of Fergie and Jesus. I don't want your life. I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul. Okay, a simple wrong would have done just fine.
00:00:26
Speaker
What is going on everybody and welcome to The Movie Showdown with Rock N' Rob. My name is Rob Mansfield and with me, he's thinking of getting a Tercel. Yeah, that's a Toyota. It's Alex Rockline. Do you know that SNL skit with Horatio Sands? I drive a Tercel. That's the first thing I thought of when I heard that from one of the movies we covered. Just genius.
00:00:45
Speaker
I looked it up because I was like, I have not seen anybody driving a Tercel in a long time.
Listener Appreciation and Prom Stories
00:00:50
Speaker
They were discontinued in 1999, which was the year this movie came out. I wonder if the movie that we're covering ended the Tercel because of that joke. It wasn't cool anymore. I want to give a quick shout out to somebody who left a review for us on Apple Podcasts, Alex. We got a five-star review, which are the only reviews that we will be reading on the show.
00:01:12
Speaker
But a five-star review from Lex H 91 and the subject was good show explanation point Which I agree me too glad I stumbled upon this podcast a fun light-hearted listen for movie buffs Lex H 91. We appreciate you. Thanks for the review. They get it. I love it Thank you. We love the comments. So just remember you give us a five-star review. Leave us a comment We'll read it on the show. There you go. So let's jump into the rock question of the week Tell me about your senior prom who?
00:01:40
Speaker
Yep. Hotel ballroom with a lot of Nelly songs. It's like the one thing I remember. I went because my friends went. I wasn't like anti-prom. It just whatever. Went with some friends. Pretty casual. I had a good time. And that was that. It wasn't like you see the movies and stuff about the prom and it wasn't like that, but it was fun. Yeah, I would say my senior prom, same thing. I went with a friend of mine. We had a great time. It was at the PNC Bank Art Center, which it might have a different name now, but that was a concert venue in New Jersey.
00:02:06
Speaker
which was a cool place to have a prom. I was actually prom king, Alex. I did not know that. Wow. I still have the crown. I meant to wear it for this. Oh my goodness. I mean, first of all, I'm not surprised. Thank you. I didn't know that. I can't believe I didn't know that. The first thing you should have said to me when we met. Yeah, I was trying to feel you out. You didn't know how that would come off. Yeah, maybe it wouldn't have worked.
00:02:26
Speaker
My mom still had it at her house, the crown, and she gave it to me not that long ago. So it's somewhere, I think it might even be in this, my closet over here. Is it in like a display case that like spins around? No, no, no. No, it's out. Actually, when I was still at my parents' house, Wes was like wearing it once being like, what's this? And I was like, I don't even know how to explain this to you.
00:02:46
Speaker
But I went to a lot of proms. My school had a junior prom and a senior prom, so I went to a bunch. But I think I went to the senior prom three times. I think I went as a sophomore, a junior and a senior. Wow. I went to the senior prom as a junior. Nice. I went with a friend. Again, it was fun. It was in Boston, so it was like really cool. And I was like, wow, this is going to be great for my senior prom. Yeah, no, no, no. They did not do it. I think they did mine in I think it was at Danversport, which is a cool place. No free ads, but Danversport Yacht Club. This is phenomenal. Guild of the Swan. Greatest dessert there
Spotlight on '10 Things I Hate About You' and 'She's All That'
00:03:14
Speaker
is.
00:03:14
Speaker
Well, it is prom season, so Rock and I thought it was time for us to dust off our tuxes by a corsage, which why do people do that? Put a dead flower on someone else. I don't know. It's romantic, I guess. I'm sure there's some like historical reason. If you know, let us know. Leave us a five star review and then let us know why. And we will read. We will read the answer.
00:03:32
Speaker
and we wanted to revisit two of our favorite high school rom-coms, 10 Things I Hate About You and She's All That. 10 Things I Hate About You has a pretty good Rotten Tomatoes score, and even though we typically try to do movies with under 60%, we felt these two movies were so synonymous with each other, we had to match them up.
00:03:48
Speaker
Both came out within a few months of each other in 1999. Both are based off well-known plays Shakespeare's Taming of the Shrew for 10 Things I Hate About You and Pygmalion for She's All That and both have very similar story elements. So, Alex, talk to us about the movie you're representing this week.
00:04:03
Speaker
All right, so this week I will be representing 10 things I hate about you. Quick summary, emphasis on quick. A nerdy guy wants to go out with a popular girl, but she can't date until her sister does, but no one likes her sister because she's a feminist and it's 1999. So the nerdy guy has his nerdier friend convinced the popular guy to pay a dark and mysterious guy to take the feminist girl out on some dates so that the nerdy guy can go out with a popular girl, but the popular guy also wants to go out with a popular girl. So, you know, typical high school.
00:04:31
Speaker
So this movie came out March 31st, 1999, directed by Gil Younger, written by Karen McCullough, Kirsten Smith. You may know them from Legally Blonde, she's the man. Actually, these two writers, they actually collaborated via snail mail on the script for about a year. Wow. This is 1999.
00:04:48
Speaker
There was the Internet, right? There was. I mean, You've Got Mail came out the year before. So email was like pretty hot. That's interesting. They're old school. 10 Things I Hate About You had a budget of 13 million dollars. Box Office brought in 60.4 million dollars. This movie opened the same day as The Matrix, which you may have heard of. Rotten Tomatoes score of 71 percent and a Google audience score of 89 percent. This week, I will be representing She's All That. I'm sure that there are some people listening saying 10 Things I Hate About You is way better than She's All That. And it's not even close.
00:05:18
Speaker
but I will do my absolute best to prove to you why I think she's all that is a slept on teen rom-com and deserves to be in the same league as 10 Things I Hate About You. Summary, probably the coolest high schooler to ever live gets dumped by his girlfriend and part of his grieving process is making a bet with his D-bag friend that he can turn any girl into prom queen. But oh no, how will he do this? She wears glasses and is an art student. Poor eyes.
00:05:44
Speaker
Released on January 29th, 1999, directed by Robert Iskov, written by R. Lee Fleming Jr., he wrote a bunch of Friends episodes, and doing an uncredited rewrite on the script, M. Night Shyamalan! This is like the biggest M. Night Shyamalan twist there's ever been, that he was an uncredited writer, and she's all that. Well, especially since this same year, The Sixth Sense came out.
00:06:08
Speaker
Yeah. Like his biggest movie ever. I can't believe that he is, yeah, was part of this. I love it. She's All That had a budget of between seven and $10 million and had a box office of $103.2 million. Ooh. Very successful.
1999 Movies Draft and Cast Comparisons
00:06:23
Speaker
Yeah. A Rotten Tomato score of 41%, but a Google audience score of 79%. Not bad. Like we mentioned, both these movies came out in 1999.
00:06:31
Speaker
I was 11 at that time and these movies framed what I thought high school would be like. So obviously I was very misled when I actually got to high school. But looking back, 1999 is one of the best movie years of all time. And I think for people of our age, it's probably like the most impactful
00:06:47
Speaker
So my thought was let's do a quick draft 1999 movies I will have she's all that already rock will have ten things I hate about you I'm going for fun here just putting that out front when I looked at this list It was overwhelming the number of movies on it that were like that's great. That's great
00:07:04
Speaker
I have a similar draft plan, Rob, where there's some that might not be the best, but I'm like, that's like one of my personal favorites. So let's see. I'm curious to see how this shapes out. Let's do five movies each. You can go first. Ready? Go. I'll take The Matrix with my first pick. When I first saw it, it blew my brain. I am actually going to go with The Sixth Sense. And I will follow that up with American Pie this one time at Bandcamp. I just love the American Pie movies. I know they're problematic. Don't care. Love them. Hey, you have fun with them. That's all that counts.
00:07:32
Speaker
All right, I'm going to take Austin Powers, the spy who shagged me. Yeah, baby. I will follow that up with Galaxy Quest. Never give up. Never surrender. I like Galaxy Quest. Me too. I haven't seen it in a long time. I watched it not that long ago. Hold up. Are you going to take Fight Club because I'm not going to take it? I don't think I will, which is crazy. It's like probably the best movie from this year.
00:07:52
Speaker
Definitely is. I am going to take Blue Streak, the Martin Lawrence. Oh, yes. Luke Wilson movie. I love that movie. I hope we covered on the show one day. Tango El Gato Los Pantolones is something I still say. I watched that movie so many times at my friend's house growing up. And I will follow that up with Varsity Blues. Oh, man. A movie we covered on this show. I don't want your laugh. I'm going to go office space. I believe you have my thickler.
00:08:20
Speaker
And I'm going to follow that up, Rob. I am going to take one of your movies here. I don't know if this is going to be controversial. I'm going to take Big Daddy. Oh, man. That was my next one. I kind of thought it was, but I couldn't let it sit there any longer. Heap, heap, heap, heap, anonymous. That is still my favorite line. With my last pick, Never Been Kissed. Oh, I don't know why. I like that movie a lot, though. Maybe it's because I think the idea of being in like your low 20s and going back and just dominating high school, like
00:08:44
Speaker
David Arquette just goes back and dominates high school baseball. I love every aspect of that. It's funny you picked that because that movie was on the other day and I was working and Abby came upstairs and she just put it on TV. It was just on. You know, I turned around, I watched it. Also a problematic movie. Yeah. But I love it. Last pick for me. I'm going to take Toy Story 2. Nice. Just because the Toy Story movies are pretty flawless. Yeah, they're great. This is going to be a fun matchup, Alex. I'm excited to talk about these movies. I'm excited to go back to 1999. Take us away. Round one, best cast.
00:09:14
Speaker
I don't know if you knew this, but apparently the cast of 10 Things I Hate About You actually loved each other in real life and got along really well, which you can see in the film, the chemistry on screen. Yeah, it makes sense. I mean, you could see it. We've definitely had movies that we've covered where it's, oh, these two hated each other. It's nice to get one on the other end of things. Yeah.
00:09:29
Speaker
Alright, one of our main characters is Heath Ledger. He plays Patrick Verona. This was actually Heath Ledger's first American movie. You obviously know him from some of his major roles, the biggest probably being his role as the Joker in The Dark Knight. And he won a posthumous Oscar after he passed away.
00:09:46
Speaker
I still remember hearing the news of him passing away and like being familiar with his role in the Joker and it was like, wow, that was a big one. I always liked Heath Ledger from when I saw him in this movie and then he had a bunch of other movies that he was really good in, was able to kind of show some of his personality. Then he started taking some like different type of roles, which showcased his phenomenal acting. I remember when they announced he was going to play the Joker and the internet was like,
00:10:10
Speaker
What? How is that gonna work? That's ridiculous. Then they dropped the first little teaser trailer where he did the laugh. You didn't even see him. It was like a picture, like outline of him, but you heard the laugh and it just like shut everybody up. They're like, oh my gosh, what is gonna happen?
00:10:26
Speaker
And then he was just so amazing in that movie. He blew me away. The opening scene with him in the bank. That movie came out when we were roommates. Yeah. And I remember didn't the opening scene kind of like either leak or drop before it came out?
00:10:41
Speaker
And I remember watching it on your laptop. Like we were just like, play it again. Yes. Because it was so good. I saw the movie. And then I think that was the first movie that then I went and watched it again by myself. I was like, this movie was so good. I need to see it again. I know. After watching 10 Things, I was like, I really want to go back and rewatch The Dark Knight because it was so good.
00:11:00
Speaker
For me, like rewatching 10 things, there's a lot about Heath Ledger that draws the audience in. He has just that infectious smile that fills up his entire face, which is why like he did kind of fit as the Joker, but when he's not doing it in like a creepy deranged way. Yeah. You're just like, Oh my gosh. Like I could see why all of America was just drawn in to him. So charming. In the accent too. I mean, come on. Yeah. So much charisma. He's really good.
00:11:27
Speaker
So his character Patrick, there's kind of this funny runner that goes throughout the whole movie where they reference all the rumors about him because he's kind of like this unknown guy. Here's a couple that they mentioned. He lit a state trooper on fire. He sold his liver on the black market. He ate a live duck, except for the beak and the feet. He had a porn career. He knows Marilyn Manson and he slept with one of the Spice Girls. They don't say which one, but yes. Do you have a favorite? Probably sold his liver on the black market. A couple of them they do mention again and like he was drinking and they're like, how do you do that? Like you don't have a liver or something like that. I was like, that's great.
00:11:56
Speaker
I like the two, the one where- I heard he ate a live duck once. Everything but the beak and feet. I love it. And then when Kat, the love interest is talking to him and they're like trading stories back and forth and she says, did you sleep with a Spice Girl? And he was like, not that I know of. Not that I know of. So he didn't completely deny it. He just said, not that I know of.
00:12:17
Speaker
I do like that scene where she kind of addresses it. He thought you
Character Inspirations and Iconic Moments
00:12:20
Speaker
beat out Josh Hartnett and Ashton Kutcher for this role. Julia Stiles, she plays Kat Stratford. Larissa Olanek, she plays Bianca Stratford. She's very 90s. I don't know if you remember her from the Secret World of Alex Mack, the Nickelodeon show. And a couple episodes of Boy Meets World. Yeah, very 90s. I mean, she's still acting now, but she's big in the 90s.
00:12:38
Speaker
And those two, those characters are very opposite. They have really good sister interaction. You grew up with two sisters. I mean, does that check out? Yeah, it checks out. Definitely. So Julia Stiles actually auditioned for the role of Bianca and Larissa Olenek really wanted to play Kat. So they just kind of did like a switch. And then in real life, she actually attended Sarah Lawrence College, which is where Kat's character, that's where she wanted to go. That was her dream school. So that's pretty interesting. That's cool.
00:13:01
Speaker
Also, Disney executives wanted Dawson's Creek stars, James Van Der Beek, Percy Blues, and Katie Holmes to play the roles of Patrick and Kat. You also had Eliza Dushku, Rachel Lee Cook, who we'll talk about later, and Kate Hudson. They also auditioned, but Kate Hudson's mom, Goldie Hahn, told her not to do the movie because she did not like the script. If you listen to this podcast, you know I love Kate Hudson, but Julia Stiles was really good in that part. Agreed, Julia Stiles. She kind of turned that other side on, which was really great.
00:13:28
Speaker
All right, you also have Joseph Gordon Levitt. He plays Cameron James. Pretty big time actor. I'd say he's done well. You may know him from Angels in the Outfields, for instance. Or he was in The Dark Knight Rises. Oh, yeah, he was. Also Inception, Looper. He's huge. His character name, Cameron James, is a play on the famous director, James Cameron. Kind of interesting. I like Joseph Gordon Levitt. I like him in almost everything he does. And he's fine in this movie. But there are points where I think he is a little much. Yeah.
00:13:56
Speaker
If I had to pick one person that I'm like, you're dialing it up a little too, it's him. Everybody else I think does an awesome job. Yeah. I've known plenty of nerdy high school guys. Nobody really acts like that to where he's like trying to just like overly defend this girl that he's never even met. Yeah. No, I agree. It is interesting when a character can be like that and they're on the screen. You're like, all right, wrap it up. Yeah. Get me back to Heath Ledger.
00:14:18
Speaker
All right. You have David Krumholz. He plays Michael Ekman. You might remember him from Santa Claus. He plays Bernard and he starred in the show Numbers. His IMDB is super long. Yeah. I always like him and everything he's in. I love him in this movie. I think he plays the character like perfectly.
00:14:34
Speaker
So Joseph Gordon Levitt actually auditioned for the role of Cameron and Michael and he preferred the Michael part and David Krumholz wanted the Cameron part. So again, little flip-flop. I like how they just kind of took everyone. They're like, no, actually you're going to play this part and you're going to play this part. I have a question for you.
00:14:49
Speaker
And I was just thinking about this. We brought up some of these movies. So Heath Ledger, Joseph Gordon-Levitt, and David Krumholz would all go on to star in Christopher Nolan movies. We mentioned Ledger starring as the Joker in The Dark Knight in 2008. Joseph Gordon-Levitt was in Inception in 2010 and The Dark Knight Rises in 2012. And Krumholz was in Oppenheimer last summer.
00:15:08
Speaker
Is this enough evidence to support the claim that Christopher Nolan is a huge 10 things I hate about you, fan? Yes, absolutely. I mean, first of all, who isn't? And second of all, the connections. Yeah, I feel like there is, right? It would be a lot of coincidence for him not to be like, yeah, I've seen you in that movie and I thought you were really good and just keeping like a running list in mind. Exactly. He's definitely.
00:15:29
Speaker
Now, you could argue that those actors were all just big actors and whatever, but I'm going to go on to believe that Nolan is a huge 10 Things fan. Maybe we can get him on sometime and we can ask him. Yeah. Open invite, Chris. We can break down two of your movies. Chris. Mr. Nolan.
00:15:45
Speaker
Oh, man. All right. Also appearing in this film is Andrew Keegan. He plays Joey Donner, another 90s star. He was the the preppy jerk. You know, he was a model. He was rich. He did a good job. He did a good job. Like you wanting to hate him, which is hard. It's hard to pull off. They did a couple little things in the movie that I thought were really funny. Like when he holds up the two photos, like the model pictures and he's like, which one do you like better? And literally the only difference is one of them, he's in a white shirt and the other is in a black shirt. All right. So do you remember the scene where he draws a leaner on
00:16:15
Speaker
on David Krumholz's character's face. He actually didn't know how to draw a wiener for that scene. So we had to have David Krumholz teach him, which I can just imagine him being like showing him on his own face. Like, no, you got to do it differently. I find that really funny because then he's sitting at the table after he talks to a wiener drawn and they're like, you can leave now. And then he gets up and he goes and talks to somebody else and he talks to them for a little bit. And then he's like, I have a dick on my face, don't I? Yep.
00:16:40
Speaker
Great delivery. All right, we have Gabrielle Union. She plays Chastity. She also appeared and she's all that. And then followed up with Bring It On in 2000. I feel like she was someone else who was in everything during this time. I agree. Very popular. And finally, we have Larry Miller. He plays the Stratford sister's father. He is hilarious in this movie. Yeah, he's good. He's like the overprotective dad. He won't let Kat date if...
00:17:04
Speaker
Bianca doesn't date. And then like every interaction he has with the kids, it's like so over the top. He's got some of the better lines in this movie, I think. I like when Kat backs into Joey's car and she just says like, whoops. And then it cuts to the dad. Whoops. My insurance does not cover PMS. It was a well edited but a really funny line.
00:17:22
Speaker
Alright, let me jump into She's All That. Starring as Zack Seiler, we have Freddie Prinze Jr. Most people know Freddie Prinze Jr. from his roles in I Know What You Did Last Summer, Scooby Doo, and this movie, She's All That. He even voiced Kanan Jarrus, a Jedi from the Star Wars show Rebels. But did you know he is actually a huge wrestling fan and even worked as a writer, producer, and director at WWE for a few years? I did not know that.
00:17:48
Speaker
He even has his own wrestling podcast and I've listened to him talk about wrestling a few times and it's crazy how much of a fan but also how intelligent he is about that whole world. I personally love him in Summer Catch. At some point, I would love to do that movie. He's kind of one of those guys that it's hard not to cheer for. I get you. Josh Hartnett was also considered for this role and literally probably every other movie that came out in this time frame. Remember how big he was for like three years?
00:18:12
Speaker
Do you remember it? It's funny because when I was, you know, reading about that, he was considered for the other movie. I was like, that's a name I haven't heard in a while, but I remember always hearing that name. Oh, yeah. So Zack Seiler, like I said earlier, literally the coolest high schooler ever can do no wrong. Everybody loves him. He's going through all the colleges he got into. It's like almost every IV and like top school in the country.
00:18:33
Speaker
We got another vanity plate alert. His license plate says Mr. Prez. Love it. We love the vanity plates on the show. We do. And this is something that just came up very organically. We are in on vanity plates.
00:18:45
Speaker
I thought Zach was so cool. I was like, I want to be like that when I get to high school, you know, minus the whole like betting on making a girl cool thing. He's a nice guy, too. You know, he's nice. He's good looking. He's busy. And he plays soccer or soccer. He's all that. We have Rachel Lee Cook as Lainey Boggs. Lainey Boggs, the name is actually a combination of the names of two characters played by Winona Ryder. We've got Kim Boggs from Edward Scissorhands in 1990 and Lelena Lainey Pierce in Reality Bites from 1994.
00:19:13
Speaker
I don't know why, but it's cool. So Lainey Boggs, big time artist. A lot of what she does in this movie centers around her art. Do you think this movie helped or hurt art kids? And is this the movie that made you, Rock, want to be an artist? I'll say no on my part, but I feel like it helped art kids. I don't know. Like it showed art kids like, even you can be cool. Yeah, like you can be cool. Like, look, you can have a future. Also, the fact that she's always wearing her paint clothes and covered in paint pole movie. Yeah.
00:19:42
Speaker
Is that going to be me? Am I always going to be covered in paint? The answer is no. Well, Rachel Lee Coke was a pretty in nineties girl. I actually saw she dated at one point or another. Shane West, Ryder Strong and Ryan Reynolds. Ooh. So she was like big time. Lili Sobieski, Mayna Savari and Georgiana Brewster all auditioned for the role as well.
00:20:00
Speaker
We have Paul Walker as Dean Sampson. We love Paul Walker on this show. Loved him in Varsity Blues. I love him in the fast movies. He was such a good a-hole in this movie though. Yeah, he was. It just like fit the role really well. He's got that one line where he's like, Hey, now check out the Bobos on Super Freak.
00:20:19
Speaker
Probably something an A-hole high school kid would say. He does research, I think. We have Matthew Lillard as Brock Hudson. He, albeit not a massive role, was so good in it. So Brock Hudson's the real world star that starts dating Zach's girlfriend, Taylor, in the movie. Lillard watching himself on the real world, that scene where he's just watching it, and he's like, oh, this is my dramatic... So funny.
00:20:45
Speaker
Isn't he like moving his mouth with the words because he's like, he knows him so well. It's so good. So the character Brock Hudson was named after a real life student at St. John's school in Houston, Texas, Alex. Oh. Screenwriter R. Lee Fleming Jr. went there and apparently when he was there, there was a phrase, what kind of name is Brock Hudson that was commonly used. And so he decided to put it in this movie. I love that.
00:21:07
Speaker
Another famous movie alum from St. John's School in Houston, Wes Anderson. Oh, wow. There you go. Wes Anderson. Did MTV the challenge legend Johnny Bananas create his image off Brock Hudson? Hear me out. Both Bananas and Brock Hudson love to be the center of attention and make really good TV.
00:21:26
Speaker
Both spent time doing a ton of the Spring Break MTV party events. And while we don't see Brock compete, we know he's going on Road Rules All-Stars and he seems pretty athletic based on like his dance moves, which Banana's very athletic seven time challenge champion. Also, Brock Hudson had a tattoo of his own face on his arm with the word me under it. And Bananas has made a ton of money selling merch with his nickname Bananas all over it.
00:21:50
Speaker
Johnny Bananas would have been 17 when this movie came out and although he claims he didn't watch the real world until college, maybe his first taste of real world stardom was Brock Hudson. And honestly, Alex, even if it's not true, just let me believe it. Let me believe that Johnny Bananas was like, this is what I want to be. This is my persona. Yes, I am Brock Hudson. I love that. I like it.
00:22:10
Speaker
We have Kevin Pollak as Wayne Boggs, that's Laney's father. I mention him because I do really enjoy the scene where the JV soccer team comes in and cleans their house on Zack's orders. And the dad's just sitting there listening to Jeopardy, but getting every question wrong. So confidently too. And they're not even close. Not even close. That scene made me laugh. Did you know, cameoing as one of the JV soccer players cleaning the house, Milo Ventimiglia of Gilmore Girls and This Is Us fame. Wow.
00:22:36
Speaker
We have Jodie Lynn O'Keeffe as Taylor Vaughn. She had a moment in the 90s. She was in a bunch of a bunch of movies. Gabrielle Union as Katie. You mentioned her earlier. This one made me really happy. I know where you're going. Eldon Henson, a.k.a. Fulton Reed as Jesse Jackson. This was Laney's best friend. And I just need more Mighty Ducks characters in all of my movies. Me too. Yeah, what a treat. It's funny because like he's so different. He's so different. You know, you've seen this movie so many times and you go back and watch it. You're like, oh, that's right. That's Fulton. Yeah.
00:23:05
Speaker
Blonde hair. I don't think I ever had it on my mind. And we literally just did the Mighty Ducks episode. So I was thinking a lot about the Mighty Ducks cast over the past couple weeks. And then I watched this movie. I'm like, Hey, yes, we have Dulay Hill as Preston. He was a pretty cool friend. He would go on a star in the TV show psych and the West Wing and suits and ballers and the reboot of the wonder years. This dude has been busy. I liked his character. He didn't do a ton, but he seemed like a cool guy. Definitely.
00:23:32
Speaker
We have Kieran Culkin as Simon Boggs, Kieran Culkin of some may say succession fame, I will say Home Alone 1 and 2 fame. Yeah, absolutely. So he plays Laney's brother. Initially, he was going to be deaf in like the original script and stuff, but then they got rid of that during filming. That's why he has the hearing aid. Yeah, he has like the hearing aids, but they never address it.
00:23:52
Speaker
He was initially going to be deaf after like sign, things like that. And then you're just like, ah, whatever. No one will notice. Well, we noticed. We noticed. I really like when Zach shows up with the soccer team and Kieran Culkin has all peanut butter all over his hand, like more peanut butter on his hand than you would ever put in a peanut butter and jelly sandwich that he was eating. And he gives Zach like a bro hug and he's like, mi compadre con queso.
00:24:13
Speaker
Such a good line. My friend with cheese? My friend with cheese. I love it. We've got Anna Paquin as Mackenzie Seiler, that's Zach's sister. We have Usher Ursh as the campus DJ. Alex, did your high school have a DJ just on hand? No, we had a band. We had like the band, the one band that we had. But you didn't have a DJ that was just like announcing and playing stuff during the day? No, we didn't. PBD didn't spring for that. Yeah, reminds me of like someone making announcements at like a department store. Yeah. It's like we have a kid who just doesn't go to class and he displays music and makes announcements.
00:24:43
Speaker
Little Kim has a small role as Alex, and we've got Tim Matheson as Zack Seiler's dad, Harlan. Tim Matheson from Animal House, but also Black Sheep, a movie we covered. A lot of callbacks in this episode so far. I like it. And in a non-speaking cameo as a girl in the cafeteria that Simon tries to give pepper to, we have Sarah Michelle Geller. She's all that was filmed at the same high school as Buffy the Vampire Slayer, which starred Sarah Michelle Geller. She would later go on to date and marry Freddie Prinze Jr.
00:25:12
Speaker
That was a fun little cameo because I saw her at the end. I was like, Oh yeah, there she is. So what kind of connections we doing this week? We have a few Seinfeld friends connections. So Larry Miller, who plays the dad, he's in Seinfeld, very, very minor roles from she's all that. We have Debbie Lee Carrington, Carlos, Jacob and Michael Milhauen. They all appear in Seinfeld, very minor.
00:25:32
Speaker
But this is interesting. Gabrielle Union and Freddie Prinze Jr. appeared in Friends. Oh, nice. Didn't know that. I mean, Gabrielle Union is everywhere this week. But also, we've talked about the West Wing. There's four characters who appear in these movies who appeared in the West Wing. Tim Matheson, Gabrielle Union, Dulay Hill, and Alison Janie. Very nice.
00:25:49
Speaker
Okay, this is a tough one to decide because both movies have so many great actors. They're pretty stacked. There's a lot of actors too. I think the acting quality is probably better in 10 Things I Hate About You, but I think the quantity of known people in She's All That, at least for me, pushes over the top. I would lean more quantity over quality here because of more of the secondary cast in the two movies.
00:26:18
Speaker
Heath Ledger, obviously dominant performance. Joseph Gordon-Levitt, huge. Julia Stiles, huge. Then we can start getting down to some of the supporting cast members, and that's where I think between Cameos and smaller parts, Sarah Michelle Geller, Usher, Kieran Culkin, Fulton Reed, yes, I'm calling him Fulton Reed, Mila Vinton Miglia, Matthew Lillard, Paul Walker, I mean, Anna Paquin. It's just like one of those things where when you throw so much against the wall, like something's got to stick, it pushes it over slightly for me.
00:26:47
Speaker
A lot of it stuck too. Think about all those names. It's basically like when you talk about like a sports team, take away the superstars. How's your depth? Yeah, I think I have to agree with you. She's all that with definitely more depth of stars who are still relevant. Okay. She's all that takes round one heading into round two. Best moments.
00:27:05
Speaker
The opening scene of 10 Things Ahead About You, it's so 90s, it's so great. Like even the artwork for the names is awesome. Kind of gives you an overview of the school, like the clicks, all that kind of stuff. Then you get right into Allison Janney as Miss Perky, the guidance counselor, writing her novel. We'll touch on that later.
00:27:22
Speaker
This is a kind of a smaller scene, but when they first hatched a plan to try to get Heath Ledger to go out with Julia Stiles character, they find him kind of like the shop room and he's working on a drill. And Joseph Gordon Levitt's holding his French book. He just drills a hole right through it. I like that later. He's got to use his French book and there's a big hole right in the middle. Yeah. The club skunk scene. You know, he's following around Kat. Yeah. He plays it off pretty cool. Yeah. That's like one of the first moments where you're like, okay, this dude is charismatic as heck.
00:27:48
Speaker
Then you have Bogey Lowenstein's party, which, you know, Joey's doing his modeling thing. And then you have like maybe one of our first iconic scenes with Kat dancing on the table. I like with Joey with the modeling. He's like, Oh, actually, I even get to act in this one a little bit. And he just does the same exact thing. I still like every time I watch the scene, I'm like, where's the acting? What am I seeing here? He's like, did you see that? And it's just like, it's nothing different. What am I missing? Yeah, that's good.
00:28:11
Speaker
So speaking of the cat dancing on the table, I had read that apparently the director of Save the Last Dance saw that scene and that's what led him to cast her in the movie. Oh, that's cool. Then we have the scene. I mean, I think this is like the scene from the movie. It's when Heath Ledger takes a mic hooked up to the PA system and he's out on the bleachers singing. Can't take my eyes off of you. When you think of this movie, I feel like that is the scene. Yeah, it's a super iconic movie scene.
00:28:35
Speaker
So actually the student that Heath Ledger's character pays off before pulling off this stunt is the actual leader of the Lincoln High School marching band, which was used for the scene, which is pretty cool. And then according to Larissa Olanek, it was actually Julius Stiles who suggested that they do Can't Take My Eyes Off of You by Frankie Valli. Originally in the script they had I Think I Love You and then I Touch Myself, but then they, they settled I think on the correct choice. I can't imagine that scene if he was like, when I think about
00:29:03
Speaker
I would have liked to have seen them film that because I would like to see that scene. Why was the security trying to arrest? I don't know. Also, why was there security at practice? Also, I don't know. Yeah. Why were they so readily available? Like I couldn't see them being like, all right, like wrap it up. Like, come on, let's get out of here. They looked like they were literally trying to arrest. They were going to arrest them for I couldn't tell you the charge. That is an awesome football stadium. It is a really cool football stadium.
00:29:30
Speaker
Uh, you get the detention scene, another famous scene. They have a nice little callback to win coach. You know, he got shot in the butt with an arrow during gym class and he's goes to sit down and hurts. And then he confiscates the kid's pot in his Cheetos. I'm confiscating this, this too. Oh, so good. Also, yeah. Cat flashes him. Like that can't have been okay to do, right?
00:29:49
Speaker
No, not even in 1999. The first couple of times you see it, and when you're younger and you see it, she's trying to distract them so that Heath Ledger can sneak out of the detention. But she literally flashes a staff member at the school, like, what kind of pun- you're getting suspended for that, right? Yeah, oh, totally. And if you're a teacher and you don't report that, and then it comes out later, like, you're in a lot of trouble. Yeah, yeah. She definitely put him in a very awkward position.
00:30:11
Speaker
Yeah. The paintball scene, that's a fun little scene. Yeah, right after it. I always thought it looked cool and fun, but it's also just more like paintball water balloons. Like, have you ever seen anything like that? I have not. Me neither. Looks cool though. It looks cool. It's like paintball, but maybe not as painful. Then you get the prom. Joey, you know, he gets what's coming to him. He gets punched twice in the face. Yeah. Knead in the nuts.
00:30:30
Speaker
Yeah, the prom scene in 10 Things I Hate About You, not as pivotal as the prom scene in She's All That, but it's still fun. You're waiting for Joey to get his come up in the entire movie, and then he finally gets it, and you're like, yeah, good. And then besides some of the scenes that we've talked about, the classroom scenes with Mr. Morgan, those are excellent. Yeah, played by Darrell Mitchell. He's so good. I love the Bleacher scene, but the three classroom scenes, and they kind of all build off of each other, I think those scenes are some of the best high school scenes that you can have.
00:30:59
Speaker
Not necessarily the most realistic scene, like the way he talks to the students, I don't think you could really get away with that, but in this movie, it's just so funny. Yeah, because I like how he, I mean, he knows the students and then he knows what he can say to them to like, kind of put them in their place. And he's always kicking Kat out of class. He's so mean to Joey. He's like the only person that's new to him besides like Kat at times. Mr. Morgan, is there any chance we could get Kat to take her might all before she comes to class?
00:31:25
Speaker
Someday you're gonna get slap and I'm not gonna do a thing to stop it. And Kat, I wanna thank you for your point of view. I know how difficult it must be for you to overcome all those years of upper middle class suburban oppression. Must be tough. And he's like, get out of class. Can you imagine a teacher saying that to somebody? Definitely not. Then in the second scene, it's right after when she dances on the table at Boogie Lowenstein's party and Joey's just like, why don't you ask Kat how her weekend was? He's like, unless you kick the crap out of your dumb butt, I don't wanna hear about it.
00:31:55
Speaker
Cass says she's actually excited to do the assignment, and he thinks she's messing with him. Yes, Miss, I have an opinion about everything. Do you want this an iambic pentameter? You're not gonna fight me on this? No, I think it's a really good assignment. You're just messing with me, aren't you? No, I'm really looking forward to writing it. Get out of my class. What? Out, get out!
00:32:14
Speaker
Thanks, Mr. Morgan. Shut up. And then the last classroom scene, as we know, is Kat reads the poem. So the movie is called 10 Things I Hate About You, which we know, but she actually lists 14 things in the poem. Oh, all right. So here. I hate the way you talk to me and the way you cut your hair. I hate the way you drive my car. I hate it when you stare. I hate your big dumb combat boots and the way you read my mind. I hate you so much it makes me sick. It even makes me rhyme.
00:32:39
Speaker
I hate the way you're always right. I hate it when you lie. I hate it when you make me laugh. Even worse when you make me cry. I hate it when you're not around and the fact that you didn't call. But mostly I hate the way I don't hate you. Not even close. Not even a little bit. Not even at all.
00:32:57
Speaker
Yeah, there we go. That was 14. Talk to me. Hair, car, stare, boots, mind, sick, right, lie, laugh, cry, not around, didn't call, don't hate you at all. 14 things I hate about you. I guess 10 sounded better for the title. It's okay, I can overlook that. So I just have a couple more quotes I want to share with you. So this is Abby's like one of her, I don't know, top two favorite movies. She loves this movie.
00:33:20
Speaker
So I asked her, I said, all right, give me some of your favorite lines from this movie. So this is a few of them. So the first one is Bianca and Chastity. And she says, I know you can be overwhelmed and you can be underwhelmed. Can you ever just be whelmed? And then Bianca says, I think you can in Europe. Yeah, that's pretty classic. A couple of Walter ones. I'm down. I've got the 411. And you're not going out and getting all jiggy with some boy. I don't care how dope his ride is. My mama didn't raise no food.
00:33:43
Speaker
And then, this one is actually, like, good. I like this line. This is, uh, you're 18, you don't know what you want, and you won't know what you want till you're 45, and even if you get it, you'll be too old to use it. Yeah, that's probably true, too. The last little scene is Walter, Bianca, and Chastity, and Walter's like, where are you going? Well, if you must know, a small study group of friends. Otherwise known as an orgy. Mr. Stratford is just a party. And hell is just a sauna.
00:34:08
Speaker
Good he had some really good ones. I like this morning. I delivered a set of twins to a 15 year old girl Do you know what she said to me? I'm a crack whore who should have made my skeezy boyfriend wear a condom close But no, she said I should have listened to my father she did not
00:34:24
Speaker
That's what she would have said if she wasn't so doped up. He was great, loved him. So for She's All That, I think the opening school scene is elite. It's such a good intro to all the characters. Zach pulls up. He's got the Mr. Perez license plate. He's walking through the halls. He looks at a picture of himself. He walks past the girl. He says, hi Connie. And then the girl's just like, he spoke to me. And then the other girl's like, he called you Connie. She's like, so? Your name's Melissa. I don't know how you get to that level of deity as a high school student, but it's pretty great. Why was his picture hung up though?
00:34:54
Speaker
I don't know, I often wonder that. I couldn't even begin to tell you. So we covered not another teen movie on this show. We probably should have done it reverse. We probably should have. It's really hard to watch the scenes of this movie and not think about how they spoofed it so perfectly, which is kind of funny because she's all that does take itself seriously at times. But I also feel like it is in on the joke. But then not another teen movie just takes it to the whole level. So like that intro scene is spoofed really good. And the make a bet scene is spoofed.
00:35:23
Speaker
so good in not another teen movie. I might have to do kind of like a side by side comparison of the two and post it. I would like to see a side by side. The falafel work scene. Zach goes to where Laney's working. The scene's like fine, whatever. But I just kind of like when it ends with that old dude saying, OK, I've made my decision. Super size my balls. I could kind of imagine a high schooler hearing that, like how she kept a straight face. She should have been promoted. That's all I'm saying. Agreed.
00:35:49
Speaker
The theater performing arts scene, it's kind of out of place. Laney was an artist. She wasn't really a performing artist. So it was taking some liberties grouping that together. But I appreciate the scene in the movie. Be silent, be still. The dude's in his underwear. Like the movie could have turned a really dark place. Like I'm pretty sure that guy has someone chained up in his basement. There's no doubt. Zach gets called up to the stage. Honestly, great thing he on his feet. He's just traveling with a hacky sack. Are hacky sacks even a thing anymore?
00:36:18
Speaker
is like the epitome of the 90s just have a hacky sack I mean he played soccer so it fits a little bit but still I don't know people are sure let it
00:36:44
Speaker
Sooner or later, it has to drop. It's ridiculous. Yeah, it was. It was ridiculous. The buildup was good. Yeah, it was pretty tense. I like it. They go to the beach. We get the second best beach volleyball scene that we've covered on this show. The first going to Top Gun. But this one was fun. They're just all really bad. They're really bad at volleyball. They're not good. She's hot now scene. Zach's sister, Mackenzie, shows up, gives her a makeover. Basically, she just removes her glasses. She cuts her hair really fast and like, wow, good job, Mackenzie, for that haircut. Pretty impressive, yeah, that she could cut her hair.
00:37:14
Speaker
She walks down the stairs to the Kiss Me song, trips a little bit. But Alex, I know you love the movie trope where someone is not hot and then they're hot when they remove their glasses. So you must have been in heaven watching this. Yeah, I was like, wow, how did they do that? It's amazing. They just like pull off the glasses and it's just.
00:37:30
Speaker
They do allude to it a lot when he's like, do you always have to wear those? And she's like, yeah, I can't see. I mean, justice for people with glasses, please. OK. Right. This movie was kind of mean, like, oh, you wear glasses. Glasses are always synonymous with like smart, nerdy or just yet you're not cool.
00:37:47
Speaker
And it's like, no, I just can't see. Like that has nothing to do with anything else. The cafeteria scene where the bullies are picking on Simon. We've got the Shermanator from American Pie. He's one of them. Then the other dude is wearing like a kill or artist shirt. Like why? Also, I don't think you could wear a shirt that says that to school. I don't think you could. Definitely not.
00:38:04
Speaker
Terminator pulls his, like, pubes out, puts them on the pizza, and they're about to try to, like, punk on Laney's brother, and Zach sees it and stops it. And he just, like, shows up, and he's like, stop messing with my buddy, and then he says, like, Hoover it? Hoover it. About the pizza? What kind of phrasing is that? It was very weird. I was like, is that regional? Is that, like, a regional saying? I got it, but it, like, took me a minute. Also, like, couldn't the dude have bit the part of the pizza without the pubes on it? I mean, he went full pubite, which was gross. Disgusting.
00:38:32
Speaker
Also, why were they so afraid of Zach? I don't know. I think they did a good job of setting up that he was like this coolest king of the school guy, but I would have liked to have known like why. Like there were two of them. The one dude seems kind of tough. I don't think they're like backing away from him.
00:38:48
Speaker
No, I don't see him hitting them or, you know, being like physically intimidating. I don't know. Anyway, the prom scene in this movie, such an epic conclusion. Literally the first 10 times I saw this movie, I always thought it was Zach picking her up. And then when it ends up being Dean, it always throws you. Yeah.
00:39:04
Speaker
The one dude shows up to the prom with a blow up doll, which is just like a small part. They let him have the blow up doll, but they take his little flask. Yeah, I love that. And then we've got probably the most known scene in this movie, which is the random choreographed prom dance scene. It's so weird. It really makes no sense. They do comment on it. So Crystal walked in when I was watching this and that scene was coming on and she was just like captivated by it, given that look like this is ridiculous, but she also just couldn't stop watching it. Yeah, how's that effect?
00:39:31
Speaker
So the director of the movie had a musical background and I had read that he was trying to get the director part of another musical. And I feel like maybe kind of threw this in there to show like, hey, I could do a musical thing, you know, whatever. Yeah. I was happy that Fulton ended up with Zach's sister. It made no sense, but it made no sense. Cool.
00:39:52
Speaker
I love Fulton Reed, I want him to be happy. Yeah, same. They made a really big deal about the whole prom queen stuff, and they even announced the percentage of the vote, 54% to 46%, closest in school history. Who's announcing that? I don't think they're announcing that. I think they're like, well, you won, but it wasn't by much. No.
00:40:08
Speaker
Prom scene ends. Lainey gets home. Zach's just like waiting. She tells him that Dean tried to assault her and she was the foghorn to the ear. And then they do that like dance outside and you know, it's just a nice, nice little ending. And then obviously they have the graduation scene, which is cool. Those are some of my favorite parts of She's All That. I like Lainey's dad. He's just like, he has like no, not much dialogue. Every time he's in it, I don't know. Seems like a good guy. I like the part where he's like, oh, people knock being a pool man, but I own my own business. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, I kind of like that.
00:40:38
Speaker
Very endearing. I was like, I really like this guy. Look, I love She's All That. It's such a fun movie. But if we're just talking about best moments, Heath Ledger singing in the bleachers and the 10 things I hate about you poem, it's hard being that. The most iconic moment in She's All That would probably be like the prom dance. But I feel like it's iconic for the wrong reasons. Yeah. Or like when she comes down the stairs for the first time. Like, yes, you do remember that.
00:41:02
Speaker
But I mean, putting the 10 things, scenes against almost any other movies we've done, they would hold up. It's up there. All right, so we'll go 10 things here.
Titles, Soundtracks, and Plot Holes
00:41:10
Speaker
So we are one to one heading into round three, better title or soundtrack. So the title 10 things I hate about you is actually based on a high school diary entry written by one of the screenwriters, Karen McCullough. She wrote it about a boyfriend she was frequently unhappy with. Nice. Also, I'm going to teach you a little vocabulary word here. Are you familiar with the word assonant?
00:41:31
Speaker
Probably not in the way you're about to use it. So it's things that sound similar have the same rhythm, same cadence. Okay, so hear me out here. So 10 things I hate about you sound similar to the Shakespeare play on which the film is based on, which is the taming of the shrew. So 10 things they hate about you, taming of the shrew. 10 things they hate about you, taming of the shrew. I got it. I like it. So going back to the 14 things in the poem, maybe this is why they did 10. The titles are assonant.
00:41:59
Speaker
Yeah. You got some great music in 10 Things That Hand about You. Very 90s, of course, but the band that Kat is obsessed with is actually a real life band, Letters to Cleo, originated in Boston. Do you know who, which fictional character in television has this as his favorite band of all time?
00:42:15
Speaker
Ben Wyatt, Parks and Rec. Oh, Ben! His favorite band is Letters to Cleo. That makes sense. So good. They actually appeared in the show too. Speaking of 90s music, listen to some of these. You got One Week by Baranick and Ladies. That's Cut Off, then by Bad Reputation by Joan Jett. You got Push It by Salt and Peppa. Notorious B.I.G. Can't Get Enough of You, Baby. I Want You to Want Me. Pretty good 90s musical soundtrack. That's a great playlist.
00:42:37
Speaker
So, She's All That, the title is actually said when those two guys are rapping about the prom queen battle. They're like, Laney, She's All That. You know, I like it when movies do that. I know that's your thing. I forgot they did that and I was thinking like, where did they get that title from? And then, there you go. I like the score of the movie. Anytime there's like an emotional part, they play the score. The composer, Stuart Copeland, he is more known originally as the drummer of the band Police, you know, with Sting. Oh, yeah.
00:43:02
Speaker
The biggest song in She's All That, Kiss Me by Sixpence and None the Richer. This is the first movie to use this song, which would later go on to be in every movie, basically. After appearing in this movie, it reached number two on Billboard's Hot 100 and stayed in the top 10 for 16 weeks. That's pretty impressive.
00:43:19
Speaker
Two other bigger songs on the soundtrack. You've got Rockefeller Skank by Fatboy Slim for the prom dance scene. And then you have Give It To Me Baby by Rick James for the Brock Hudson dance scene. Both songs are really good. I think this is really close. I want to discredit 10 Things I Hate About You because there was actually 14 things in the poem.
00:43:40
Speaker
But the fact that it is in similar fashion as Taming of the Shrew, and honestly, 10 Things I Hate About You is just like super catchy and stands out to you as a movie title. She's all that, it's fine, but it's not a memorable title. It's just like a very 90s saying. Yeah. She's all that and a bag of chips. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was like so big, yeah.
00:43:59
Speaker
If we're gonna go quantity over quality, I think the Rockefeller Skank and Kiss Me are probably two of the bigger songs from that time, but there's definitely more good 90 songs in 10 Things I Hate About You, so I'm fine giving 10 Things I Hate About You this category. I'll take it. So two to one, heading into round four, plot holes, crunchiness, random questions.
00:44:21
Speaker
I only have one plot hole for 10 things I hate about you. And you could kind of say this about both movies or like every movie from this time period. So this is like really before cell phones were big. How do all of these people know where everyone is outside of school? Right? Heath Ledger's character just keeps showing up at places that Julia Stiles is. How does he know? Like, is he just stalking her? Yeah. Or is he like, he's going around, hey, do you know, what does she do?
00:44:47
Speaker
It's not specific to this movie, but that was really the only plot hole that I could come up with. Yeah, some cringiness. I'm pretty sure the guidance counselor, Miss Perky, writing an erotic novel in school, talking about Ledger's bratwurst like she'd be in jail. Right. Yeah, that is a that is a no go. Another thing that's in both these movies, they do show a decent amount of like smoking just in school, like this character. I'm pretty sure they show him smoking it on school property at some point. Like you've never been able to do that, right? Maybe in like the 70s. I know in the 90s you absolutely couldn't do it.
00:45:17
Speaker
The only other thing was Heath's character was like kind of forceful with some of his kisses. Like it'd be like talking and instead of like keep talking, he just like forced kiss, which I'm not insinuating in that way. I just feel like whatever, 20 plus years later, they're probably not doing it that way. I getcha.
00:45:33
Speaker
Random questions. So Cameron's an army brat. That's why he's moving to the school at the end of the year. But like, can we all agree that's pretty mean of his parents, right? With like two months left of school to move him. They couldn't have found a way to keep him. I don't know. Yeah, no, I totally agree with that. I'm not in the army, so I can't. Right. Maybe there was no choice, but I agree. That's a tough time to break in.
00:45:52
Speaker
Alex, you remember when college decisions came in the mail? I do. What a time. Now it's all email and everything's email logging into your portal to see if you've been accepted or not. But yeah, it takes kind of the fun out of getting the actual envelope. The fat envelope. Is that a skinny one? Like, should it be fat? Should it be skinny? There was nothing like that feeling of checking your mail. But maybe that's the feeling kids get seeing it in the emails now. I don't know. Used to be a big thing for us. I'm pretty sure I still have my letter from Gordon. I think I do, too. Somewhere.
00:46:18
Speaker
Last thing, they had a couple scenes out in that stadium where kids were just hanging out when practice was going on. That doesn't happen. Kids aren't just hanging out after school for practice. I know. I was like, wait, are they at gym class? Yeah, it was very confusing. No, kids don't do that. What do you got for cheese all that? Plot holes. Obviously, she's pretty attractive from the start. What's more unbelievable? She's supposed to be ugly or someone that starred in the real world would start to date a high school girl for that long of a time. Oh, man.
00:46:42
Speaker
They're both pretty unbelievable. I could see how possibly an attractive girl would just be viewed as being like weird or whatever. I don't think someone from the real world is dating a high school girl, then following her back to wherever. Right. I don't see that happening. I could see a real world person hooking up with someone like that, but not. Sure. Not like dating for an extended period. Also, at the graduation, you can't be naked at a graduate. Like, there's no way he could have like gone in.
00:47:07
Speaker
Like, as soon as he stands up naked, like, he's probably getting arrested, right? He probably is, yeah. One trope I don't like in movies and TV are graduations. They're always so convenient with where the characters are in the line. I know. And they're always so short. And I'm like, my high school graduation had like 450 kids and it was so long.
00:47:25
Speaker
Alright, some cringy stuff. When Laney's in art class and the girls come up to her, why are they so mean to her? Like, telling her to go kill herself? Like, that was shocking. That's extreme. Then, like, the bathroom scene, that girl's, like, puking. She goes in to try to be nice, and that girl's just so mean to her. She's like, how does it feel? She's so mean. And it's like, why are you like this?
00:47:43
Speaker
That was weird. But that was funny when she painted her face. That was great. Good payback. Also, just like a lot of smoking on school property. Dean smoking when he's watching the rap. She's all that rap. Taylor smoking at graduation. Yeah. All right. Some random questions here. Let me get a couple for you. What high school has fresh grum pepper? I don't know. That was pretty good. Yeah, that was good. Also, the art teacher faxing the school recommendation at the prom. So we think prom is in like middle of May. Thanks. A little late there, pal.
00:48:09
Speaker
This might be our shortest plot holes, random questions we ever had. Yeah. You know, I couldn't really think of much, which is good. I feel like we both can view them for what they are. They're high school movies. It's like, all right, we're going into it. It's high school movies. We're going to set the bar a little bit differently. I think for me, when you're looking at plot holes, the fact that out of all the kids in the school, they were like, that girl is going to be the hardest to turn to the prom queen. And it's like you look at her and you're like,
00:48:35
Speaker
Nah, she's all right, man. Yeah, she's not bad, yeah. She's a good artist, too. Yeah, she's pretty cool. That's what kind of stands out to me. I feel like I'll give this one to 10 things I hate about you. I think so, too. If we're looking at specifically plot holes, I feel like, yeah, that's just one that sticks out. So we have got a three to one lead for 10 things I hate about you heading into round five, our miscellaneous question of the week. This week, I just compiled some quick hitting questions. Like I said, these movies have some similarities. Let's match it up and see which one takes it.
00:49:04
Speaker
So she's all that, centers around betting someone to take out a girl. While 10 Things I Hate About You centers around paying somebody to take out a girl. Which one is meaner? Oh, betting. Yeah. You could have someone say, I'll pay you to go out with this girl and maybe you'd think she's attractive. Yeah, right. Maybe that just gives you the confidence or the drive to go and do it. Sure. Making a bet that you can turn a girl into prom queen because you think she was a lost cause, like, that's pretty cold. I think it's the motive. Yeah, the motive for the bet is that there's no way. So it's like, oh, I'm doing you a favor by going to hell with you.
00:49:33
Speaker
Both movies, the girl gets over it pretty quick, though. Yeah, they really do. They're like, ah, all right. I don't think Laney would have gotten over it as fast as she did. And I don't think Kat, with her personality, would have been like, yeah, I'm fine. I agree on both. All right. 10 Things I Hate About You gets that. So this was the 90s. MTV was huge. Which movie utilizes the real world better? So when she's off that, it heavily features Brock, who is a real world star. They even have like an imaginary scene where Freddie Prinze Jr. is on the real world.
00:49:59
Speaker
10 Things I Hate About You has a little subtle nod, Bianca watching the Real World Seattle intro. Which one you got? I think I'd take She's All That just because it's such a main plot point. They keep going back to it. And it's fun. I just like I like the scenes where Brock's watching himself on it. It's so good. And they did a really good job of making it seem like those were real, real world scenes. And that's back like when Real World was like massive in 10 things. They lived like near Seattle. So that was, you know, that was kind of cool that they tied them. It was a nice nod.
00:50:26
Speaker
Which movie utilizes Gabrielle Union better? I feel like in like 10 things, she was really mean, like almost unnecessarily mean. She was like a villain. She's all that. She was kind of like just the nice friend. Which one do you like better? She's all that. Definitely. She was like pretty cool, especially like at the beach. She's just like, yeah, like coming with us. Yeah. Which opening credits are better? She's all that has like the paper mache opening credits. Like she's working on it. 10 things you had mentioned before, but it's pretty cool graphics within the intro. I like 10 things. Yeah. I like those credits a lot. Okay. We're two to two at this point.
00:50:55
Speaker
Which movie had the better bad guy? Paul Walker as Dean or Andrew Keegan as Joey? Oh man Paul Walker. I think he was a much better bad guy. Andrew Keegan was like not harmless but I don't know he wasn't vindictive. He was like as harmless as you can be for being like a preppy jerk. They alluded to like Paul Walker trying to like assault Laney so he was pretty bad.
00:51:15
Speaker
Yeah. Okay, three to two at this point. What's weirder? The choreographed prom dance scene from She's All That or the band playing on the roof in the ending of 10 Things I Hate About You? Probably the choreographed dance. Yeah, that would be weirder. So we'll give this point to 10 Things I Hate About You. The roof thing wasn't really acknowledged. So like that could have just been like us as the audience closing it out. They acknowledged the choreographed dance routine. Yes. Making it even weirder. Yes, agreed.
00:51:40
Speaker
So which couple had a better chance to make it? Zack and Laney or Patrick and Kat? Cameron and Bianca are like done in two weeks. They're not even in this competition. Yeah. I feel like Patrick and Kat would have a run. I feel like they would probably break up and get back together a few times. And I feel like Zack and Laney could make it work for longer. I don't know how long, but I think you're right. I think Patrick and Kat keep breaking up, getting back together, breaking up until like before school starts, if Kat's really going to go across the country. Yeah. They're just like, okay, we're done.
00:52:07
Speaker
Zach and Lainey, I think, probably make it like one week into school and then Lainey's at art school somewhere. She's with her art friends. I mean, they're just going to grow apart. So they would last approximately one to two weeks longer than Patrick and Kat. So she's all that will take this point. And I would say probably more of an amicable split between Zach and Lainey. Yeah. Patrick and Kat, I can see it getting messy. Oh, yeah. Well, OK. She's all that wins this round four to three. Ten things I hate about you still leads overall three to two heading into round six.
90s Nostalgia and High School Movies
00:52:36
Speaker
Better trivia.
00:52:38
Speaker
The school used in 10 Things I Hate About You is actually Stadium High School in Tacoma, Washington. It was first built as a Grand Chateau-style railroad station hotel, which is a mouthful, suffered some fire damage, and then renovated into a high school.
00:52:53
Speaker
So She's All That contains several references to the 90s group Hanson. You may know Hanson as mmm bop. Ooh, nice. Taylor is seen giving away a photograph of her with a band, but the two main characters are named Taylor and Zach, two of the members of Hanson. Mackenzie and Jesse, two of the minor characters from the movie, were younger members of the Hanson family. Wow, I didn't realize that Hanson had such an influence. Yeah.
00:53:15
Speaker
Alright, several names reflect the Shakespearean origin, the taming of the shrew. Bianca and Cat's last name is Stratford. William Shakespeare was born in Stratford-upon-Avon. Patrick's last name is Verona, which is the birthplace of Petruchio, the character from the play he is playing. The high school is called Padua, which is the city in which the play is set, and the two sisters' names are Catarina and Bianca. Same as in the play. Okay.
00:53:40
Speaker
So Adam Shankman choreographed the prom dance scene and Brock Hudson's give it to me baby dance scene. If you listen to the show, you may remember Adam Shankman as the director of A Walk to Remember and one of West's favorite movies, Bedtime Stories. Nice. He also officiated Freddie Prinze Jr. and Sarah Michelle Geller's wedding. Oh, that's cool. He's just weirdly finding his way onto the show. Maybe we can get him instead. Yeah, if Chris passes. Oh, Chris. Chris.
00:54:04
Speaker
I don't know. Trivia, it always just comes down to however we're feeling in the moment. I like the Adam Shankman stuff. I like the fact that he officiated Freddie Prinze Jr. in Sarah Michelle Geller's wedding, which they're still married today, which is great. A Hollywood couple that made it. I'll give you that one. You know, honestly, I'm giving it to you because of Hanson. It's just like so 90s. We're in the 90s episodes. We got to lean into the 90s stuff. All right. Tied up three to three. Heading into round seven. Better story, script, or more fun.
00:54:31
Speaker
I will say both of these movies fly. Definitely. You put them on and next thing you know, it's like, oh man, I can't believe this is almost over. Both are really fun. They're fun high school movies. I love high school movies. Maybe because we were the peak age when so many of these came out, we were about to go into high school. And so there was so much optimism about it.
00:54:50
Speaker
To me, I feel like some of the Shakespeare nods are a little on the nose in 10 Things I Hate About You. Cats called the shrew when Cameron says, and this is like my least favorite part of the entire movie of 10 Things I Hate About You. I love this movie, but this is my least favorite part. When he says the first time he sees Bianca and he's like, I burn, I pine, I perish, which is a direct quote from Tammy of the Shrew, but like two on the nose. I'm like, dude, shut up. Yeah.
00:55:14
Speaker
She's all that. I did wonder watching it this time. Is this movie a spoof on like the 80s teen movies, the way that Scream was a spoof on the Slasher flicks? If it was, it didn't do as good of a job because there was some parts where it took itself seriously. But it's hard to watch this and think like the writers definitely kind of were in on the joke a little bit with some of this stuff.
00:55:37
Speaker
It does feel that way in certain parts, doesn't it? If I'm being honest, I do think the overall story and story flow of 10 things I hate about you is better than she's all that. But I think these movies are really, really close. They're a lot more similar to than I remembered, especially when, you know, we did the quick hitter questions. It is interesting how there are a lot of similarities, although the movies are totally different.
00:55:57
Speaker
But both were a lot of fun. I don't know how many times I've seen both of these movies as many times. It's still fun to watch them again. I think I felt more emotionally watching 10 Things I Hate About You. I laughed a lot during She's All That. I could watch it again and again and again. Same thing with 10 Things I Hate About You.
00:56:13
Speaker
But with it being so close, at least in my opinion, I'm looking for what would make this movie stand out more. I'm also looking for what makes people resonate more with 10 Things I Hate About You than She's All That. And I feel like more people can relate with the lead characters in 10 Things versus She's All That. You can look at Freddie Prinze Jr.'s character and be like, wow, that dude is so cool or whatever. But not many people have that high school experience.
00:56:39
Speaker
Exactly. Way more people have the high school experience of Kat, Cameron, Michael, Patrick. Yeah. And then just that last scene, the 10 Things poem, you could like feel her emotion through it. Apparently that was done on her first take. Oh, that's cool. I feel like I have to admit that even though I had so much fun with She's All That, 10 Things I Hate About You is a better movie and is still equally as fun.
00:57:02
Speaker
Yeah. And it's something I talked to with Abby before the episode. She's like, man, I remember when this came out, I related so much with the high schoolers, but watching it as an adult, I relate so much with the parent who's like so protective of his kid. And so you really do get both worlds in it. Yeah. Yeah. Even watching it back, like, Oh man, I remember being in high school and like, you don't have the same experiences. Freddy Prince Jr. Character is more of like the struggle, like, Oh, trying to like keep up or trying to like fit in this or that. And then also as a parent too. Now you get both of it. I think Abby's right. I didn't even think about it that way, but
00:57:30
Speaker
10 Things is a way more well-rounded movie.
Personal Preferences and Conclusion
00:57:33
Speaker
It is, yeah. So okay, 10 Things I Hate About You wins the prom movie showdown matchup. I feel good about that. Me too. Let's jump right into our rankings. Pretty tight, yeah. I have 10 Things I Hate About You as an 87, and I have She's All That as an 81. I have 10 Things I Hate About You as an 89, and She's All That as an 88. Wow, that is very tight. I'm probably the biggest She's All That defender out there.
00:57:58
Speaker
I recognize 10 Things is a Better Movie. I love 10 Things I Hate About You, but everybody loves 10 Things I Hate About You. This is your little big league. Yeah, there we go. Sometimes it's nice to have movies that you just put on being nostalgic about and be like, I don't even care what people think. I love this movie. No shame. You got anything you want to close out with? Salute to the 90s. Salute to 1999, like specifically. 1999, amazing movie year.
00:58:23
Speaker
This has been The Movie Showdown with Rock and Rob. Make sure to like, subscribe, rate, and review. All that fun stuff. And follow us on all the socials at Rock and Rob Show. Until next time, peace. I'm out of here. Remember, no tattoos, no piercings, no ritual animal slaughters of any kind. My gosh.