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I Must Break You: Rocky IV vs. Top Gun
158 Plays1 year ago
Rock & Rob enter the danger zone by getting in the ring and battling Rocky IV (1985) and Top Gun (1986) to see which movie can buzz the tower. These 80s box office blockbusters are put through seven rounds of questions to see which is left standing with their arm raised while Rock & Rob also break down less important things such as Drago’s legal issues, weird movie kissing and of course...SHIRTLESS BEACH VOLLEYBALL! This episode feels the need...the need for speed! (Insert weird Maverick and Goose high five gif here.)
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Transcript
Introduction and Nicknames
00:00:00
Speaker
Ladies and gentlemen, can I please have your attention? Brothers don't shake hands. Brothers gotta hug. Your voice is like a combination of Fergie and Jesus. I don't want your life. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul. Okay, a simple wrong would have done just fine.
00:00:26
Speaker
Welcome to the movie showdown with Rock and Rob. My name is Rob Mansfield and with me, the Dance and Destroyer, the King of Sting, the Count of Montefisco, the Master of Disaster, it's Alex Rockline! The Count of Montefisco was my absolute favorite.
00:00:43
Speaker
And you know what? That part, Rob, reminded me a lot of your nicknames for me, which I think we have talked about before on this podcast. But I was like, man, I love a good nickname, Radoloff. I could have listened to 20 more of them. Like in the Sandlot when they're doing all the Babe Ruth ones. I love that. I love the nickname Radoloff. It's so good. It's
Movie Selection: Top Gun vs Rocky IV
00:01:02
Speaker
funny that they comment on it, too, in the movie. I mean, not to jump the gun, but yeah. Yeah. So the Rock question of the week.
00:01:08
Speaker
Are you a birthday diva? You know, not really. I enjoy my birthday, not really a diva. And now that Evelyn's birthday is six days before mine, it's just it's like it doesn't exist anymore, which is fine. It's fine with me. So I ask we are recording this the day before my birthday. And Krista always wants to make a nice big thing of it. And I'm just like, I feel like the mom should be celebrated more for birthdays than the child. They did way more work than than we had to.
00:01:37
Speaker
So I'm just like, any old day, we don't need to make a big thing of it, but she always likes to do that, which is funny because she isn't like that for her birthday. Like she doesn't want to make a big deal for her birthday, but for mine, she does. Interesting. Krista and I have birthdays a week apart. That's usually when we text and then we talk to each other the next year. Yeah. Just just what we do. We all have those people who it's like, oh, last text was last birthday. Yeah, just great. Those are the true friendships. They are. The ones you don't say a lot for. Exactly.
00:02:06
Speaker
Well, so since tomorrow is my birthday, Rock graciously asked me what movies I wanted to do. So I decided on Top Gun and Rocky IV, two of my favorite movies growing up and two movies that I still love to this day. Now, I know you might be asking, how are these movies connected besides being favorite of mine?
00:02:25
Speaker
One, they are rivalry movies. So in Rocky IV, you have the rivalry with Drago. In Top Gun, the rivalry with Iceman. Two, they're both movies you would never suspect had as low of a rotten tomato score as they did. It's criminal what these scores are. And three, this is the big one. Both movies involve the main character's best friend tragically dying. So there's actually a lot of connections between these movies that you might not think of on the outset.
00:02:50
Speaker
Yeah, these are fun connections. They're a little outside the box, some of them, but I mean, when you think about it, like that last one, especially Big Plot Driver.
Rocky IV Overview
00:02:58
Speaker
Well, we got a lot to cover in this episode, so let's jump right into it. Alex, why don't you talk about the movie you're representing this week? I will be representing Rocky IV. Summary of Rocky IV. Rocky Balboa is back, and he ends the Cold War by beating the pride of Russia, Ivan Drago, in a boxing match.
00:03:15
Speaker
This movie was released on November 27th, 1985, directed by Sylvester Stallone, written by Sylvester Stallone, with a budget of $28 million. This movie brought in $300.4 million.
00:03:30
Speaker
which is the highest-grossing film in the Rocky slash Creed series to date. It's unreal. Rotten Tomatoes score of 39, but a Google audience score of 91. That's quite a difference right there. That might be one of our bigger differences. I just can't get over how low that score is.
00:03:48
Speaker
You have to love these movies that have very low critical scores, yet they're some of the biggest movies of the year. Well, this week I will be representing Top Gun. Alex, this is actually the first movie that Krista and I ever watched together. I remember it was our first time like hanging out and we went up to the Nyland Lounge. Nyland was a dorm that I was in freshman year of college. So we sat out in the lounge and we watched Top Gun together.
00:04:17
Speaker
And it was a great bonding moment. And then she decided to never watch movies with me ever again. That was it. That was your one chance. No. Before we got married, she watched a ton of movies with me. It wasn't until after we got married that she decided she didn't want to partake. I don't have to do this anymore. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I love Top Gun. I always think of that as our first movie that we watched together. That's fun.
00:04:38
Speaker
The summary of Top Gun. Shirtless dudes with cool names play beach volleyball, and I think they fly jets and say cool things. Released on May 16th, 1986, directed by Tony Scott. Tony Scott has done a bunch of famous Denzel movies you've probably heard of, and he is the brother of famous director Ridley Scott. Written by Jim Cash, Jack Epps Jr., and inspired by an article in the May 1983 issue of California Magazine,
00:05:06
Speaker
about the U.S. Navy's Top Gun school called Top Guns by Ehud Yone. Top Gun had a budget of $15 million and brought in $357.3 million. This was the highest grossing movie of 1986. Top Gun had a Rotten Tomato score of 57% and a Google Audience score of 80%, which is actually much lower than what I thought the Google Audience score would be.
00:05:32
Speaker
Yeah, me too. I would have thought the Google audience score would have been higher. Like, I'm surprised Rocky IV is that much higher than Top Gun. 11% higher. That's crazy. A lot of critics complain that Top Gun was basically a Navy recruitment film.
00:05:44
Speaker
And they may have had a point. The Navy did state that the film's popularity resulted in a 500% increase in the number of recruits wanting to enter their aviation program. The Navy, riding on the back of the film's success, set up recruiting booths in the major theaters to try to catch some of the adrenaline-charged guys leaving the screenings, and they had their highest application rate for years as a result. That's actually really smart. It's really smart. Maybe a little sketchy, but really smart.
00:06:11
Speaker
I don't know, you gotta do what you gotta do.
Top Gun Overview
00:06:13
Speaker
I would have to imagine they'd be very disappointed once they entered the Navy and realized there's not as much shirtless beach model. We don't do that. So producers Jerry Bruckheimer and Don Simpson agreed to allow the military to have a say in the storyline to get access to some of the planes, aircraft carriers, and other equipment that they needed to make this movie work.
00:06:30
Speaker
The Department of Defense offered them a pretty great deal. They said for $1.8 million, they would have the use of the Miramar Naval Air Station, as well as four aircraft carriers and about two dozen jets, some flown by real life Top Gun pilots. It's actually unlikely that the film would have been able to be made without the Pentagon support since a single F-14 Tomcat costs about $38 million.
00:06:53
Speaker
In exchange for Department of Defense backing, the producers agreed to let the department make changes to the script, so they changed the way Goose died, and they changed that Charlie, the love interest in the movie, went from being a service member to a civilian because the Navy had regulations that forbid officers and enlisted personnel from having relationships. So I guess people can have an issue with that oversight. I feel like on the producer's part, though, it was a no-brainer.
00:07:16
Speaker
Yeah, no, I never felt like it was political in any way. They don't even like talk about America or like USA, you know, like that kind of stuff. No, to me, it just made it seem like these guys were pretty cool. That's the way I saw it, too. Yeah. And you know what? I do appreciate that they did get all this help because it made for like way better visuals. Way better. This is back in the mid 80s, so you're not really going to get many the video special effects. And if they were, it would look terrible. So it's, you know, it's all real flight stuff.
00:07:44
Speaker
Well, Top Gun is also credited with starting the home video industry. Originally, VHS tapes were priced at about $100 each when they were first released and they were typically sold only to video stores. Top Gun was priced to own immediately. And so it blew up and was one of the biggest home VHS release videos out there and started that trend. That's pretty cool.
00:08:06
Speaker
Alex, for our quick draft this week, let's do Tom Cruise movies. Top Gun is eligible. All right, Rob, since it is almost your birthday, I am going to let you decide if you want to go first or second. That is so kind of you. I'll take first pick. All right. Ready? I'm ready. Go. Top Gun, favorite Tom Cruise movie and movie I'm representing this week.
00:08:26
Speaker
Man, you're just going right for it. I'm going to follow that up with Jerry McGuire showing me the money and risky business. Oh. The little sock sliding scene. Love that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You had me at hello.
00:08:39
Speaker
I'm gonna complete the pair, I'm going Top Gun Maverick, it makes the first one even better, and I'm gonna follow that up with Edge of Tomorrow, Live, Die, Repeat, this movie freakin' rules. Let's go with the first, Mission Impossible. You know, he's got the whole series going on. You gotta start somewhere, let's start with the first one. Kicked off the whole series. Nice. I'm gonna follow that up with Tropic Thunder. You know, I actually visited the filming site of this movie, and I thought that was pretty cool. Oh, that is cool.
00:09:05
Speaker
I am going Mission Impossible Fallout. This is the best Mission Impossible movie in my opinion. And I'm closing out with A Few Good Men. I want the truth. You can't handle the truth. That's a classic line. I love when George Costanza, he tries to do is Jack Nicholson. I was gonna say Nicholas. I was like, that's the call for. I do that every time. Every time I have to distinguish between the two, I'm like, I don't know which one's which. I hope no one calls me on it. Wow.
00:09:34
Speaker
All right. Let's close it out with Rain Man. The Vegas scene. Fantastic. Love it. Tom Cruise. Such a great filmography. Such a great name. He's just got a great name. Tom Cruise. Remember when Rosie O'Donnell was obsessed with him back on her show? Yeah. Yeah. Remember when Tom Cruise went off the deep end and then everyone is just like, eh, who cares? It's Tom Cruise. He's Tom Cruise. Yeah. Good for him. Yeah. Good for him. Or not. I don't know. I don't know. Whatever. Who knows. Whatever. I like his movies.
Rocky IV Cast and Dynamics
00:10:02
Speaker
Alright, Alex, let's jump right into the rounds. Round one, best cast or performance?
00:10:09
Speaker
Alright, Rocky IV obviously stars our main man, Sylvester Stallone, as Rocky Balboa. Real name is Robert Balboa. We know that because his son is Robert Jr. That's so weird to me. I mean, my name's Robert II, and I never realized that growing up. And I don't think he's ever referred to as Robert, but his son's name is Robert Balboa Jr. Which would imply that if he is the junior, then the senior would also be Robert Correct. Yes, that is how that works.
00:10:33
Speaker
Yeah, you never went by Rocky. If I was tougher, maybe. See, I went by Rocky because you called me Rocky sometimes. That's true. Do you think this is the most ripped Rocky ever is in the franchise? Yes. One, because this was mid 80s and he was primed with going head to head with Schwarzenegger and taking massive amounts of steroids. Allegedly. Allegedly. Rocky's body is kind of different in every movie. Rocky one, he seems more like a normal guy. Two, he gets a little bit more ripped. Three, he's pretty ripped too.
00:11:03
Speaker
You know, and then even in like Rocky Balboa, he comes back and he just looks like a ripped old man, but he's like definitely like more broad shouldered. But yeah, this is the most ripped Rocky ever is. Yeah, he also is trading in his fedora for the old man hat in this movie. Do you know that one? I did. And my dad always wears those like I don't know when he started it, but he's a huge Rocky fan. So I have to imagine he got it from that. And I got to see my dad can pull it off.
00:11:29
Speaker
It's pretty cool. It's a certain person that can pull it off. Yeah. It's a very distinguished look, too. I would say it's very classy. My grandfather used to wear a hat like that and, you know, pulled it off very well. I feel like I'm going to try it and it's not going to work. You got to give it a try. But you also have to reach like a certain age where it's like, I think it's OK for anyone. Like now, if you want to be like, what are you doing? Like, take that off.
00:11:48
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But if you're like 75, I'd be like, you know, who cares? We also have another vanity plate alert. Rocky's car has the license plate softpaw, which I'm guessing is short for softpaw since he is a lefty. Stallone loves the vanity plates. He does. First in Cobra, now in this. We'll have to go back and look at some of his other movies and see if he hides them in there. We should look into that.
00:12:11
Speaker
All right, besides Sylvester Stallone, you also have Talia Shire as Adrian. Burt Young returns as Polly. Polly, to me, in every movie, every Rocky movie, is such a frustrating character. But he does have one of the best lines in this movie. That's when he's saying all the nice stuff to Rocky before his fight with Drago. And he closes with, if I could just be someone else, I'd want to be you. You're all heart. And it's like a really nice moment. Then when Drago and Rocky line up, he slams his gloves and, I must pray to you.
00:12:48
Speaker
It is good. I like that a lot. He's such an interesting character to mix in with Rocky. He doesn't do really anything positive for Rocky in any of the movies. I mean, I think that's the point. But still, at a certain point, it's like, Rocky, I mean, I know this is your brother-in-law, but I mean, you're making life a little too easy for him.
00:13:05
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, he's just, like, great, great situation. All right, you
Top Gun Cast and Chemistry
00:13:09
Speaker
also have the great Carl Weathers as Apollo Creed. He's good in everything that he's ever in, but he's really good as Apollo Creed in all the movies. And it just needs to be said, he just gets better every movie. I love his character. He and Sylvester Stallone play off each other really well. Good chemistry, and I like their friendship a lot. I don't know what the point of this line was in the movie when Creed's like, Feels great to feel like I could eat nails down here. You know, I never tried them things, you know. What are you talking about?
00:13:39
Speaker
I didn't say anything about snails, I said nails. It's hilarious on Carl Weather's part. It makes Rocky seem even dumber than I think he's supposed to look, but Carl Weathers is so good. He is. He's great in this.
00:13:53
Speaker
Oh, also the return of Brigitte Nielsen as Drago's wife. So apparently she initially had no dialogue, but Stallone likely incorporated her as a last minute rewrite because they were dating in real life around that time. There's also a director's cut of this film that came out in 2021 and a lot of her dialogue was cut. Makes sense. Her dialogue didn't really add much.
00:14:14
Speaker
No, not much. I mean, her character was... I don't know. She comes back in Creed II. Creed II, Apollo Creed's son, fights Drago's son. And so she comes back in it. And it's interesting what they do with the character. All right, speaking of Drago, you have Dolph Lundgren, who plays Ivan Drago. How do you feel about that name?
00:14:34
Speaker
Oh, I mean, you couldn't think of a better name for a Cold War Russian soldier slash boxing hero. Yeah. Ivan Drago. It's just like, oh, I love menacing. It's great, too, for the chance. You know, it's got the two syllables. Yeah. Oh, so good. Love it. Love it. Do you let over eight thousand people audition for the part of Drago?
00:14:55
Speaker
Wow. I can't think of anyone else better in that role. No. And he had like four lines in the entire thing. And that was, I think by choice, but he fits it perfectly. I'm glad that he didn't have a lot of lines because it just played up the character of just being like stone cold, like just there. I have time to talk. And if I am, I'm just going to tell you that I'm going to kill you. Yeah.
00:15:14
Speaker
Oh yeah, that's all I needed to say. All right, so Drago in the movie in the film is modeled actually after a real life German heavyweight champion and one time German Air Force paratrooper named Max Schmeling. Interesting. Rocky versus Drago. That fight was actually inspired by Joe Louis versus Max Schmeling, which was a match in the World War Two era. So obviously the film changes it to Cold War. Yeah, yeah, very cool.
00:15:41
Speaker
Alright, so none of the actors who played Russian characters in real life are actually Russian. Dolph Lundgren is Swedish, Brigitte Nielsen is Danish, everyone else is American. Yeah.
00:15:51
Speaker
I'm not great at accents. I'm not great at identifying accents. No. Were they good Russian accents? I don't know. Any of our Russian listeners, let us know. Yeah, let us know. All right, let me talk about Top Gun. So we have Tom Cruise as Lieutenant Pete Maverick Mitchell. Matthew Modine actually turned down the role of Maverick because he felt the film's pro-military stance went against his politics. His loss.
00:16:12
Speaker
The producers wanted Cruz for the role after seeing him in Risky Business. He was offered the part, but he was reluctant to take it until Tony Scott's brother Ridley Scott convinced him to do it. Before Cruz, Travolta, Emilio Estevez, Patrick Swayze, Sean Penn, Rob Lowe, Charlie Sheen, Michael J. Fox, and Ralph Macchio were all considered. They hit it perfectly with Tom Cruise. There's a few names in there I think could have done a good job, but... Yeah, but I mean, but Cruz is just like... Oh, he's perfect for it. He's perfect.
00:16:40
Speaker
He just has that charisma that you believe everything that he does with that like cocky swagger, but also you just can't help but pull for him every sense of the way. You have Kelly McGinnis as Charlotte Charlie Blackwood. So Alex in the last scene when Maverick and Charlie meet back up.
00:16:57
Speaker
Kelly McGillis is actually standing in a trench that was dug because they wanted the two to look like they were the same height. In real life, Cruz is only five foot seven while McGillis is five foot ten. Cruz also had to wear lifts in his scenes with her to make them appear more equal in size. You know, I didn't even notice their height difference, so I guess they did a good job. Yeah, they did a good job.
00:17:18
Speaker
Good for them. Ali Sheedy, she's from the Breakfast Club, the not Molly Ringwald character. And she turned on the role because she didn't think that anyone would want to see a movie about fighter pilots. And she considers it the biggest mistake of her career. I'm glad she realizes that. I am too. I like when people say like, yeah, that was dumb. Yeah, that was dumb. Yeah.
00:17:37
Speaker
Brooke Shields, Demi Moore, Deborah Winger, Carrie Fisher, Jodie Foster, Diane Lane, Sarah Jessica Barker, Linda Hamilton, and Julianne Phillips. All possible candidates for Charlie. We have Anthony Edwards as Nick, Goose, Bradshaw. He's really funny in this. And I feel like every time I watch it, I always leave it thinking Goose is way funnier than I remember him being. Almost every line he says is funny. I love when they get chewed out by their superiors. Really enjoyed that map. Thanks a lot.
00:18:08
Speaker
Maybe I can learn how to be a truck driver. Now, have you had the number of that truck driving school we saw on TV, Truck Master, I think it is? I might need that. I don't know. He's just funny. Val Kilmer as Lieutenant Tom Iceman Kazansky, he was perfect for this part. I will always think of him and doing that like bite at Tom Cruise. It's so weird, but so cool.
00:18:30
Speaker
And the tension between Maverick and Iceman, it's not just because of good acting. Crews and Kilmer actually kept their distance from each other and never socialized when they were filming this. Gotta love it when actors really buy into that. He's such a good bad guy. I mean, not that he's a bad guy, like, you know, like, his character isn't bad. I don't know the right word for it, but... For lack of a better term, he's a little dickish. Oh, totally. He does it so well. Like, you immediately, like, you just look at him, you're like, oh, this guy. But he's right in everything that he says. Exactly. Right.
00:18:58
Speaker
You don't want to like agree with him. You're like, what does he know? Yeah, but he's like, he's dead on on everything.
Cast Comparison: Rocky IV vs Top Gun
00:19:04
Speaker
So you have Clarence Gileard as Marcus Sundown Williams. And my dad, who I don't think knows what a podcast is, would know him as Trevet in Walker, Texas Ranger. And he's also in Die Hard. Always got to give a shout out to Walker, Texas Ranger, if I have an opportunity.
00:19:18
Speaker
Tim Robbins, famous from Shawshank, Bull Durham, a ton of other movies. He is Merlin in this. An interesting thing is that Tim Robbins is six foot five inches tall, so it's unlikely he actually would have qualified to be an aviator because he would have been too tall for the cockpit. That's kind of funny to think about. You could be too tall to be a fighter pilot. Yeah.
00:19:39
Speaker
We have Meg Ryan as Goose's wife, Carol. Meg Ryan and Anthony Edwards, who played Goose, actually dated for a little bit after filming Concluded. So that's always nice, I think. I don't know. Good for them. This is like one of her first films. Oh, yeah. This is a very early role for her. And yeah, obviously Meg Ryan blows up and goes on to be a rom com queen. Yeah. When I think of her, I think more of the 90s, but it was fun to see her here. So Top Gun is synonymous with the call signs. Alex, what's your favorite call sign in the movie?
00:20:09
Speaker
Yeah, man, there's so many good ones in here besides like the top ones like Maverick, Iceman, Goose. Loved Viper. Viper is such a cool nickname. That's good. Merlin. Merlin was a good one. Merlin's mine. That's my... Yeah. If you're not going like Maverick or Iceman, I'm going Merlin. Even his helmet was really cool. Yeah. Like I like how they all like kind of decorate. You know what I found? I was like, you know, I bet there's a way you could like, there's some sort of like top gun call sign generator. Yep. So I did one. I kid you not. The one that popped up, Lieutenant Alex Wiener Rockline.
00:20:40
Speaker
No way. Yeah. Wiener? I'm not kidding. Yeah, I'm not joking. Wiener. Are you sure you didn't go to Magic Life Name Generator?
00:20:49
Speaker
Could you imagine if like your whoever was like, weiner stay on his way. I mean, how do you get your call side? Who gives it to you? Do you make up your own or does someone like, you know, like you have to earn it or I don't know how that works. I don't know. That's a great question. Well, I'm going to be calling you wiener for the rest of the episode. Yeah, man. So unfortunate. All right, Alex, tell me about any Seinfeld or friends connections.
00:21:12
Speaker
There's not many, which I guess is not that surprising. There's not that many. The cast isn't all that huge of like the main characters. If you think about it, but interesting. The bus boy in an episode of Seinfeld wears a t-shirt with a logo of a Navy fighter squadron, the VF 213. This is not a real Navy patch, but it was actually featured in Top Gun.
00:21:33
Speaker
All right, that's a good, fun connection. Yeah, that's a fun connection. So that's what we're getting this week. So when we look at these two casts, obviously it's basically Sylvester Stallone and Carl Weathers versus everybody in Top Gun. But I mean, we have Tom Cruise, arguably the biggest movie star on the planet. You have Meg Ryan, Val Kilmer, Tim Robbins. I mean, I think you got to go Top Gun here.
00:21:54
Speaker
I will go Top Gun for this one, and really for me, it's the chemistry with the characters in Top Gun. I know in Rocky, you got Rocky and Apollo are their best buds and stuff, but the relationship in Top Gun, the characters have the pilot and the Rio, just like Goose and Mav. They're great together in that movie. There's so many good character pairings, too, that I think the performances in Top Gun are better. Yeah, couldn't agree more.
00:22:18
Speaker
I think Dolph Lundgren does a great job as Drago, but it's a completely different type of role than what you had to get out of Iceman and all the other people that came up against Cruz and
Iconic Scenes and Moments
00:22:29
Speaker
Top Gun. Great, Top Gun takes this round, takes a one nothing lead. Heading into round two, best line or moment.
00:22:37
Speaker
Yeah, so opening scene of Rocky, just like in all the other Rocky movies, kind of play a chunk with the previous film, kind of sets you up. We got Eye of the Tiger going, classic. Great. You get the clips from Rocky beating Clubber Lang. Has my favorite line from Rocky III in it when he's boxing with Clubber Lang and he's talking trash to him and he's like, you ain't so bad. Come on, check it out.
00:23:02
Speaker
It's like one of the best Rocky lines ever. I love it. Also the iconic freeze frame, Rocky moment, Rocky and Apollo. I love that. That's such a great way to show that. I like how all the Rockies did that. They opened with the close of the previous movie, especially if there isn't much boxing throughout the movie. Like this movie didn't have a ton of boxing in it.
00:23:22
Speaker
So at least you get a little bit in the beginning to set the mood and then it kind of carries you. This one showed all the best parts from Rocky III. I mean, it missed a little bit of the training scene and it missed the WWF Hulk Hogan versus Sylvester Stallone fight. But for the most part, you get like the best parts of Rocky III in Rocky IV.
00:23:41
Speaker
Alright, so at the end of the Apollo-Drago fight, great scene. It's like part ridiculous, part like, really cool. Oh, it's ridiculous that somebody gets murdered in a boxing ring? Yeah, no, it's ridiculous that like, the Drago line is ridiculous when he's like, if he dies, he dies. You know, he's like punching the guy after the whistle, or not after the whistle, after the ref comes in to like, try to break it up, and you know, this guy's a machine, he's just like, trained to like, destroy whatever's in front of him, and then Rocky, you know, stares him down.
00:24:10
Speaker
appears to be in very serious condition. The Medi-Dive. The Medi-Dive. The Medi-Dive.
00:24:24
Speaker
That gives me chills, man. That's a good, yeah, that's a good scene. It's really, you know, it just sets up. You know, what's going to come next. Like it's pretty obvious, but it's like, can you imagine watching this movie for the first time? I don't remember the first time I saw it, but can you imagine seeing it being a massive Rocky fan, seeing this movie in the mid eighties, you go to the theater, you're like, Oh, this is great. The previous movie, Apollo had trained Rocky to help him beat club relying. You're so invested.
00:24:49
Speaker
And then Apollo gets killed. You're just like sitting there. He's like twitching on the ground. It's gut wrenching, man. You're like, oh my gosh. And then you hear Drago. If he does, he does. That is probably the best acting Stallone did in the entire movie when he just looks at him with just such anger and despair. Seriously, he just gives me chills. Like I was ready to just like run through a freaking wall.
00:25:12
Speaker
Yeah, wouldn't that pump you up to be like, yeah, I'm going to Russia. You know, I'll take care of this guy myself. It's amazing. You have a good training montage. What do you think about Rocky running with his leather jacket on through the snow? And boots, probably. Key moment of every Rocky movie is the training montage. And I think this one is up there as one of the best. The juxtaposition of the training styles between Rocky and Drago are great. Working the same muscle groups, which is doing it in a different way.
00:25:38
Speaker
I'm not really sure what it was trying to say to the audience, but it was really cool. You got the Vince de Cola score. I actually used to listen to the training song when I would run around the Gordon indoor track. Oh, nice. We used to have a track that was elevated above the basketball courts and I would run around it and it kind of felt like I was in that training center that Drago was in and I was listening to the training montage song as I was doing my warm up laughs and always used to get me fired up.
00:26:06
Speaker
Do you think they modeled that track from the Rocky IV training facility that Drago's at? It does have a very similar vibe. It has a very similar vibe to it. I was like, I got an idea. I wouldn't put it past some people from Gordon to just be like, let's research the best training facilities. And someone was like, I got a great idea. Have you ever seen the movie Rocky IV? I think there's something there. Yeah. What about the Drago on top of the mountain?
00:26:31
Speaker
I get it. I thought it was a little much. It's the one part where I'm like, what is he doing? It's ridiculous, but like it's, I don't know, it fits in with the. Yeah. He's got to climb something and get up there. Yeah. I mean, I've been symbolizing like he's on top of the mountain. He's like, yeah, I get it. It's fine. I get it. It's fine. Have you ever done that? Have you ever gone to like the top of a mountain and just screamed something? Uh, I can't say I have. Next time I climb to the top of a mountain. So never, but next time I do that, I'm going to scream.
00:27:01
Speaker
or actually it was last name so I'm gonna I'm gonna scream rock line weiner yes sir you are banned from this national park you cannot you're using an appropriate language but you cause an avalanche please do not all those training scenes actually not in Russia so sorry to spoil but filmed in Wyoming so we could go visit it we could yeah we could actually go to the filming location of rocky 4 Wow
00:27:28
Speaker
The shorts that Rocky wears, the Apollo shorts, the like American flag shorts, they're just so iconic. I love those. I mean, I've seen the movies enough now to know differently, but there was a point where I thought that those shorts were the Rocky shorts. That image of him in those shorts is synonymous with Rocky. When in reality, you know, when Rocky won, I think he has the black and yellow and the black and yellow is really the Rocky shorts. But in my mind, it's always the Apollo shorts that he wears.
00:27:54
Speaker
Yeah, they're so cool. And they're so cool in this, you know, obviously in the US first Soviet Union stuff. It's just, yeah, they're really cool. I don't know about the rest of the outfit that Apollo wears before the fight, but the shorts are great. The shorts are great. I love that Rocky puts them on at the end for his last battle. Great tribute. One of my favorite lines is, all right, what's happening out there? He's winning.
00:28:19
Speaker
I see three of them out there. Hit the one in the middle. Right. Hit the one in the middle. Great line. I read that that was based on a real line that someone said to a boxer at one point. I forget which one. Yeah, I can see that.
00:28:33
Speaker
Yeah, don't worry about the room spinning or your triple vision. Just keep punching. Just stay out there. Yeah, keep punching. So yeah, the end of round two and on, just great action. Well, you watch Rocky movies for two things. You watch him for the training montage and then for the big fight at the end. And basically from the end of round two on, it's phenomenal.
00:28:53
Speaker
You're thrown into it. You actually believe that this guy is invincible. And then when Rocky finally hurts him, makes him bleed, it draws. He's cut. He's cut. Yeah. Yeah. So good. Yeah. That's a great part. And then even Drago is like, he's like a piece of iron. That's a great part too. And he's realizing like, Oh, yeah. Yeah.
00:29:09
Speaker
That's the best part about who Rocky is. It's just this underdog that you would never suspect could be what he is. But it makes the audience believe like if you just believe in yourself enough, like nothing can keep you down. They're very inspiring. And I think those montages, like especially this one where he's doing like the every man's chores, you know, it's like, okay, yeah, I do that kind of stuff. I could be Rocky. Yeah, yeah.
00:29:34
Speaker
I could work out 24 hours a day, seven days a week, and I would never look like that, but I will try. We'll put
Soundtracks and Titles
00:29:42
Speaker
it to a test. If somebody wants to sponsor our podcast and allow me to do that, I will try.
00:29:48
Speaker
same well jumping into Top Gun I have no idea what is happening in that first scene but it is awesome it really establishes Maverick well when I guess I'll call it fighting with the MiGs but they don't actually shoot they're kind of just like trying to intimidate each other engage yes I don't know I don't know the right term like I said no idea what's happening but it's really cool then he buzzes the tower gets yelled at great line in the movie is when his superior thing
00:30:14
Speaker
Son, your ego is writing checks your body can't cash. So good. It is so good. Then they go to Top Gun. The bar scene's really good. Goose, another funny line. You live life between your legs. Rolls right into that when Maverick sees Charlie. She's lost that loving feeling. She's lost. No, she hasn't. Yes, she has. She has not lost that look because she's lost it, Matt. Come on. I hate it when she does that.
00:30:41
Speaker
Excuse me, miss. Hey, hey, hey. Don't worry, I'll take care of this. You never close your eyes anymore when I kiss your lips. And they just go and they sing that. I love that part. Love it when they're in the classroom setting and Charlie's asking him how he would have possibly seen the make from that angle. And he says, I was inverted.
00:31:06
Speaker
That whole scene is so good. So apparently when Iceman coughs BS, you know he does that. Apparently that was improvised and the reactions of the people in the room were actually genuine, which I love. I love that. I always love when that happens and they keep it in. Another great line in the movie. I feel the need, the need for speed. Then they do that like hand slap thing. So good. That line was actually ranked 94 on AFI's list of a hundred movie quotes.
00:31:33
Speaker
I don't know if I would say that's my favorite line in this movie, but it's good. I'd say it's the most recognizable line. Yeah. Obviously, we've talked about it already, but the beach volleyball scene, it makes no sense in the scheme of the movie, but it's amazing. It was too short. It was too short of a scene. I wanted it to go on a little bit longer. Tony Scott cut his chops as a music director before jumping into films, and there are certain scenes in this movie that really give off that vibe. The beach volleyball scene is one of those scenes, but it's great.
00:32:02
Speaker
And then obviously the final fight's really good and Iceman say to him, you could be my wingman anytime. Then Maverick says, no, you can be mine. It's really good. Embrace. It's good. It's good. I don't know. I think this round comes down to a few things. Top Gun has some really good lines, obviously great acting, some good chemistry, whereas Rocky has a few scenes that get you really, really amped up.
00:32:26
Speaker
Yeah, I'd say, you know, like Top Gun is like the slower build towards, towards the climax at the end. But like, yeah, Rocky has those scenes. You're just like pumped. Yeah. You're like, yeah. Like when Apollo dies and Rocky and Drago says, if he dies, he dies. And then Rocky stares at him.
00:32:41
Speaker
Like I said, that gave me chills. Nothing in Top Gun gave me chills. And I've seen both of these movies probably the same amount of time in my life. Right. In the final fight with Rocky, you're just like sitting on your couch throwing punches, dodging, ducking. I feel like we have to give this round to Rocky because of the emotional highs of those scenes. Yeah, I'm in agreement with you on that one. It's hard not to get excited when you see those parts. Yeah, yeah. OK, one to one going into round three. Better title or soundtrack?
00:33:12
Speaker
So we kind of touched on the score of Rocky IV, Vince de Cola, training montage, and the final fight, which is appropriately titled War. Great title. Makes a lot of sense on many levels. Excellent. For a sports movie, for this type of movie, does a job. How do you feel about the,
00:33:29
Speaker
the James Brown cameo, Living in America.
Plot Holes and Realism
00:33:32
Speaker
So that whole scene, it's really funny at first, you know, Apollo's entrance and he's dressed up as Uncle Sam. He got James Brown, love James Brown. Living in America is a very good song. Became Brown's first top 40 single in 11 years, last of his career. But I think that scene's like way too long. Yeah, they did the whole song. They did the whole song.
00:33:41
Speaker
um,
00:33:52
Speaker
get it, yeah. After like the first 30 seconds, I'm like, can they just fight? Even Drago's like, come on. So this is actually the only rocky film where the music is not composed by Bill Conti. Instead, he decided to score The Karate Kid Part Two. Interesting. The 2021 Director's Cut, however, would reuse several cues from Bill Conti's scores in addition to the Decola score.
00:34:15
Speaker
I'm going to have to check out that director's cut. I got to try to find it someplace. That's the second time we brought that up. And yeah, I would definitely like to check that out too. I want to see that. So this was actually the first Rocky film in which Gonna Fly Now is not sung, although a few bars of the song are actually incorporated into the score. Which is kind of criminal. I mean, how do you have a Rocky movie and you don't have that song in it? Yeah, yeah, exactly.
00:34:36
Speaker
The soundtrack for Rocky IV is actually nominated and won a Razzie for Worst Musical Score in 1985. That is dumb. That's like appalling to me. This is actually a really good score. Yeah. That makes me as angry as I think Rocky was at Drago when he killed Apollo. Yeah. Ridiculous. Ridiculous. People are so freaking dumb. That legitimately makes me angry. That's a job. Yeah, that's a trigger for you. Yeah.
00:35:01
Speaker
All right, Top Gun is scored by Harold Faltemeier. He also did the Beverly Hills Cop Axle Foley theme, which is a great song as well. The score for Top Gun is really good. It sets the mood perfectly for every scene. I love how the opening credits, it has the score going and then it just drops right into danger zone when the propulsion from the jet engine goes.
00:35:39
Speaker
It's just like, it's perfect. It is so good. It's kind of like a music video. Like I said, it makes sense with Tony Scott's background. Never noticed until this time when one of the jets takes off the guy that's directing him, he does like this little kick and finger gun thing, which like, you know, he was just acting it up for the camera. Those weren't actors. Those were real naval pilots and naval officers.
00:36:00
Speaker
Funny thing about that opening, so Tony Scott wanted to shoot the aircraft taking off and landing on that carrier backlit by the sun, but the captain of the carrier had changed course. Scott asked him if he could go back to the course that they were doing, and he was told that turning the ship would cost $25,000. Then Tony Scott wrote the captain a quick check, and the captain turned it back. According to Tony Scott, that check bounced.
00:36:23
Speaker
He got it both ways. He got a shot and he got to keep his money. Obviously, we got to talk about Kenny Loggins' Danger Zone. What a great song. It's played three times in the movie, which in my opinion is not nearly enough. Literally could have played every scene I would have been happy about it. If you had asked me how many times I would have said at least double that, it just felt like it was on loop in the background at all times. Equally as famous of a song, Take My Breath Away,
00:36:51
Speaker
Honestly, probably could have played Danger Zone in the scenes where they played Take My Breath Away, might've fit. I wanna hear a mashup. I wanna hear Danger Zone and Take My Breath Away, like mashed up into one song. Oh, man, that would be good. Somebody get on that. Really good, really good score. Those two songs, amazing. And then also, just Top Gun is an awesome name for a movie. It's such a good name for a movie. It's gotta be up there in top 10 best movie titles. Yeah, I mean, Rocky IV, it's like, okay. Yeah, we get it. Rocky I, II, III.
00:37:19
Speaker
It is what it is. Yeah, you know top gun though. So good. It's so cool. It's even now it's so cool And it's way better, you know We said earlier that top gun was based off of an article titled top guns top gun is way better than top guns It is you drop that out. Yeah, it's just like change way better
00:37:35
Speaker
It's kind of like that scene in the social network when Justin Timberlake comes in and tells Jesse Eisenberg, who's playing Mark Zuckerberg, talking about the title. And at that time, it was called the Facebook. And he says, drop the the just go with Facebook. It's cleaner. It's like drop the S Top Gun. It's cleaner. It's cleaner. What do you think? Who we go with this round?
00:37:53
Speaker
I'm giving this round the Top Gun. I think just what we just discussed, you know, the title is awesome. Danger Zone. So there's so many things that put this over the top. So good. Not that Rocky IV, the score music isn't good. It's just Top Gun is that much better. Watching Top Gun, I didn't feel like the musical cues were dated. Take my breath away and Danger Zone don't feel dated to me.
00:38:14
Speaker
the songs, not the score, but the songs in Rocky IV. I feel a little 80s. There's a bunch of Stallone movies, especially the ones we've talked about where they'll have some of those super 80s songs. For the time, I'm sure they were big, but they don't age well. Okay. Top Gun takes a two to one lead, going into round four. Bigger plot holes, more cringy, random questions.
00:38:38
Speaker
Let me throw some things at you about Rocky IV here. In reality, Soviet heavyweights were not allowed to box professional fighters during the Cold War. So technically, this movie never would have happened. Also, Drago would be in jail for manslaughter.
00:38:54
Speaker
The ref tried to stop him and he threw him off and continued to punch him. So, nope. He's not just walking scot-free away from that. No, no. Right to the gulag. Yeah. When Rocky first arrives at his temporary home in Russia, Paulie complains that there's no antenna and asks, what about the Rose Bowl game? However, the boxing match between Rocky and Drago was set for December 25th and the Rose Bowl is typically on January 1st. So Paulie would not have missed it. I wouldn't put it past Paulie, though, to not know how to work a calendar.
00:39:24
Speaker
I'm sure he had no clue. He's like, oh, there's snow. Yeah. Yeah. This isn't really a plot hole, but just more of a WTF. Rocky is really tan for having trained in Russia for as long as he had been. He's very, very tan. Yeah. Then another thing we like talking about time changes. We've done it on a few of our episodes. We do.
00:39:43
Speaker
At the end of the fight, Rocky makes this grand speech and he says, hello to his kid at home who should be sleeping. And then they cut to a sun and, you know, in the background it's black and supposed to be nighttime when they're watching this fight. However, Moscow, which is where the fights fall, is eight hours ahead of Philadelphia time. So even if the fight ended at midnight Moscow time,
00:40:03
Speaker
It's still only 4 p.m. in Philly, and on Christmas, it would be getting darker, but it would not be dark and would definitely not be Robert Balboa's bedtime. Right. If it was the opposite, then yeah. Yeah, but no. Few cringey things. Five minutes of this movie, which is only 90 minutes long, is dedicated to that dang robot. How will we not talk about that robot yet?
00:40:26
Speaker
It's so weird. So, in the director's cut, apparently Rocky cut all the robot stuff out. Yeah, that was a good call. Which is a great decision. So, the robot was actually a member after this of the Screen Actors Guild and toured with James Brown in the 80s. So, apparently Stallone said that he first saw this robot at a party and was amused by it, so he wanted to put it in his movie. The 80s were a crazy time, man.
00:40:49
Speaker
It was a crazy. Yeah. Like, that's the reason that we talked about Stallone's obsession with robots in our last episode about Cobra. That's right. That's right. It's insane that this robot is in this movie. Happy birthday, Polly. Yeah. The talking was like I love Polly's reaction and Apollo's reaction. We're both like, what? What are you doing? But then he like changes it to like a sultry voice. Yeah. Which I think he was going to marry the robot. Yeah, they were.
00:41:19
Speaker
Anyway, after Apologize, they do the no easy way out montage, which basically gave a three and a half movie recap. And by half, I literally mean it recapped what we had just watched in the previous half hour. And everything that happened in the previous three movies, there's no need for that. We already got a little bit of the recap from the beginning. That's kind of crazy. So it's been calculated that 31.9% of Rocky IV is montages.
00:41:45
Speaker
Wow. And in the last 50 minutes, it's about 50% of the movie is montages. Jeez. Wow. Which I know is not great movie making, but for a Rocky movie, I didn't really hate it. You know what I did like? I liked all the montages with like the newspaper articles or like the freeze frames. Like those actually looked really cool. Yeah. I didn't like the no easy way out montage. But besides that, I was okay with most of the other ones.
00:42:08
Speaker
I'm okay with montages in general. All right. Random questions. If all of boxing looked like Rocky fights, I would be the biggest boxing fan of the world. Oh yeah. Nonstop action. Yeah. Face blow, face blow. Yeah. People are going to say, I'll go watch some of the Mike Tyson fights and stuff like, yeah, I get it. But very seldom do you see knockout blows where it's just clear. It's usually like someone gets a good jab in on the face and it just hits them square and the person goes down. Yeah.
00:42:34
Speaker
This was like no defensive maneuvers. It was like, yeah, just like face shot, face shot, face shot. So Drago's on steroids. This I feel like was before baseball made steroids mainstream. So do you think like Jose Canseco saw this and was like, I wonder if that would work for me? Yeah, he's like, allegedly, allegedly, allegedly, allegedly. Yeah, they I mean, they make it a point to say he's not on them and then they have that training montage. It's just a close up of his shoulder.
00:42:59
Speaker
Like, well, what could that be? Wes was watching that with me and he was like, why is he getting medicine in his arm? And I was like, uh, he's cheating. I don't know how to explain this to you. You're five. Yeah, it's cheating medicine. So Adrian shows up in Moscow. How do you think she got there? Great question. Seems like a pretty remote area. That's a great question. Have you ever worn boxing gloves before?
00:43:20
Speaker
I've put a pair on before. Yeah. Okay. It's very hard to like open and close them. They're supposed to be intentionally like tough. Sure. Right. Drago lifts that guy up by the neck wearing boxing gloves. That's more impressive than everything else he did in the entire movie. Yeah. Yeah. I think killing someone with like a couple bunches. Yeah.
00:43:38
Speaker
And then my last random question is, do you believe Rocky ended the Cold War with his speech? If I can change and you can change, everybody can change. It was very inspiring. I mean, it's a heavy lift for that speech. It's a heavy lift for that speech, yeah. I don't know. Don't put it past Rocky. He's the ultimate underdog.
Impact of Key Character Deaths
00:43:55
Speaker
All right, give it to me. What do you got, plot holes?
00:43:57
Speaker
So plot holes, Top Gun. The captain said he is going to Top Gun for five weeks, but it's an eight-week program. Yeah, they did say that. Got some script writing issues there. Yeah, so maybe he was like, well, I'm going to quit for a few weeks and I'll come back, even though I quit for like a few hours.
00:44:12
Speaker
Back to beach volleyball because that's really all I can focus on. Yeah. Why why are they playing in jeans? I don't I don't know, especially jeans in the 80s. Like those things you could not move in. OK, well, I would never play volleyball in jeans, any kind of volleyball. Now we're playing beach volleyball. Yeah. No shirt. Just jeans. Sand everywhere. Everywhere.
00:44:48
Speaker
What? Very weird. He was like, no, I'm hungry. How about, no, that's a psycho thing to ask. It was weird. All right. So when they're listening to or when they're having dinner, you know, they put some music on. He's like, oh, this song. It's actually Otis Redding's sitting on the dock of a bay in Maverick is like, oh, my folks love this song. And then he states that his father disappeared in F4 November 5th, 1965. But that song wasn't written until November 1967. That's interesting.
00:44:52
Speaker
I don't know man
00:45:14
Speaker
Maybe his father disappeared into some sort of wormhole. He discovered that song. Cringy. I mean, Maverick and Charlie get together. The kissing is seen where they're kissing. It's I don't know how to describe it. It is some of the weirdest kissing you will ever see. It doesn't look like they've ever kissed anything before. No, it doesn't. No, it doesn't. They're like open mouthed like birds, just kind of like pecking at each other, trying to share a worm.
00:45:40
Speaker
off centered a little bit off centered. Yeah, I was like, what am I what am I watching here? I don't know. Should I be watching this? No, no. Speaking of their relationship, you know, they show the movie to a test audience. There was some feedback that there was no love scene like that. There should have been a love scene. Why is there no love scene? So producers were like, fine, fine, fine. So five months after production wrapped, they had Tom Cruise and McGillis come back
00:46:05
Speaker
for the elevator scene and this said scene here where they're who knows what they're trying to accomplish. Yep. So Tom Cruise is actually filming the color of money at the time. His hair was actually longer in those two scenes. And then Charlie's hair was darker, which is why she's wearing a hat like randomly wearing a all black baseball hat. That's why if you know that when you're watching the movie, it's pretty obvious. Yeah.
00:46:26
Speaker
And then, yeah, it's her wearing a hat is so out of place in that it's so out of place. I know. So rewatch it. Check those things out. All right. Couple of random questions for you. You know, that great scene where he's inverted and then goose takes up the camera and takes a picture, which is pretty awesome. But why does he have a camera in there to begin with? Does he frequently just take? Oh, that's a great view. Let me take some pictures. I can't imagine they encourage you to have cameras in a jet when you're traveling as fast as you are or anything other than the absolute. Yeah.
00:46:55
Speaker
necessary equipment. Good question. It's a good question. Also, the bar where they sing like it just happened to have a microphone hooked up to a speaker. Ready to go. Like we're ready to go. Just in case maybe tonight's the night that we're going to have someone sing into this. Who knows? Like how exactly does Goose die? Like obviously he gets like thrown out from the jet wash, but like. Yeah, so they pull the ejecti and he shoots up and he crashes into the top of the. Like the ceiling for the lack of a better word. Yeah, of the jet.
00:47:23
Speaker
So then my first thought is like, oh, he like broke his neck and died. But then later on, once they're out of the water and in like the hospital bay, the one superior officer comes and tells Maverick, oh, Goose is dead, which makes it seem like he wasn't dead when they arrived there. Yeah. But I thought he was dead like immediately. I don't know. I'm still kind of confused.
00:47:44
Speaker
It happened so quick, like that scene. They didn't like draw anything out or like it was just like the shot was like a little bit further back. So you're like, did I miss something? I did read that the Navy actually changed the way they do ejections out of their jets because of seeing that this could happen from this movie. Interesting. You can look into the specifics of it, but.
00:48:04
Speaker
Well, I'm glad that Goose did not die in vain then. Yeah. Speaking of Goose, this bugged me and Abby said the same exact thing at the end when Tom Cruise throws his dog tags into the ocean. Yep. Why didn't he give them to his wife or the kid's son or keep them for himself? Like it seemed a little selfish to me. I thought that was the whole point of dog tags was like, if something happened here, you pass them on. Exactly. Because that would have been a cool thing to have. It's like Goose's dog tags and that diamond and Titanic are things at the bottom of the ocean that I would love to get my hands on.
00:48:33
Speaker
Oh man. Yeah. Uh, one more question for you. Why was everyone so sweaty? The whole movie, the guys are like, when they're in the boat, like I understand there's probably no ventilation. They're probably hot. The guys are just dripping sweat. Even in Rocky, they're all sweaty. Everyone, these two are very, two very sweaty movies, Rob. Sweaty movies. I feel like they were the least amounts of sweaty during the beach. They're just like dripping. That's true. These poor guys.
00:49:01
Speaker
I have to assume that on those carriers, it's just really hot because you're out in the middle of the ocean. Yeah. And who knows which level you're on? There's no ventilation. There's no fans. Yeah. That's a good question. There's no AC. Yeah. That's sweaty, guys. I don't know. What do you think? Who do who takes this round?
00:49:17
Speaker
I think there are more plot holes in Rocky, if I'm being honest. In terms of just Drago murdering someone and then just getting to like live his life, the whole timeline thing. The robot, I mean, I think the robot makes Rocky lose this automatically. Instantly. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, in Top Gun, obviously good questions, but like apart from that song not being correct, it's all semantics when we're talking about the plot holes.
00:49:45
Speaker
Yeah, that kind of stuff. Honestly, it doesn't really change anything with the plot. No, not that like either of these have to be realistic, but when you look at the two of them, you know, Top Gun totally could happen more than I think Rocky Ford could happen. Yes. If that makes sense. Not that that's like our baseline, but I kind of lean towards like.
00:50:02
Speaker
some of the more realism in Top Gun when it comes to these categories to, you know, nudge that over. So we're gonna give Top Gun the point here. So Top Gun 3-2-1 heading into round five, our miscellaneous question of the week. What is the more impactful death? Goose in Top Gun or Apollo in Rocky IV?
00:50:23
Speaker
Before we get into this, both main characters, Maverick and Rocky, feel immense guilt about their role in the death of their friends. There's a lot of online debate about whether either of the deaths were actually impacted directly from the characters though. So in Top Gun, Maverick tells Iceman to break right and he goes left and that leads him to flying into the jet wash, which leads to the plane spinning out and Goose dies.
00:50:47
Speaker
And then in Rocky, you know, Rocky beats himself up for not throwing in the towel. But the ref tried to stop Drago before that happened anyway, and it didn't work. So Rocky throwing in the towel wouldn't have changed anything. Right, right. So I guess my question to you is, which death drove the main character more? Yeah, so when I think about goose dying and the impact it has on Maverick,
00:51:11
Speaker
makes him more hesitant, loses confidence, obviously some PTSD there, but eventually he overcomes it to complete his mission. But that's not really the main focus or plot of the movie, whereas in Rocky IV, the whole reason he's fighting Drago is because Drago kills Apollo. Yeah, I would say Goose's death is more impactful in Top Gun Maverick, the sequel.
00:51:34
Speaker
It's a huge driving point for the sequel. If Goose didn't die in Top Gun, I would say most of the stuff still happens. Sure, absolutely. Just with a little different of a tone. If Apollo doesn't die, Rocky's not going to Russia to end the Cold War.
Trivia and Behind-the-Scenes
00:51:49
Speaker
No, and you know, it's like, I'm doing this for my friend.
00:51:52
Speaker
There's all sorts of stuff that motivates him. It drives him to ultimately the whole point of the fight. I would say that Rocky has a more impactful death, especially in terms of the movie. Goose's death is definitely a gut punch, and I'm sure seeing it for the first time, it's shocking. Creed was such an established character, though, too. And then the way that it happened and Rocky's response to right after it happened, I got to give this one to Rocky. Yeah.
00:52:20
Speaker
Okay, three to two going into round six, better trivia. In Rocky four, Sylvester Stallone actually decided that for the shooting of the fight, he and Dolph Lundgren would hit each other for real, increases the intensity of the scene, all that kind of stuff. So after doing three takes of Rocky taking shots of the ribs, Sylvester Stallone felt a burning in his chest and ignored it. And later that night he had difficulty breathing and was taken to a nearby emergency room.
00:52:46
Speaker
then flown to St. John's Hospital in Santa Monica, where he was in the ICU for four days. Wow. Lungren punched him so hard that his heart slammed against his breastbone and began to swell, which cut off the blood supply and restricted the oxygen flow in his body. Wow. That's insane. That is insane. So they were really hitting each other and they were hitting each other pretty hard. Oh, man.
00:53:07
Speaker
I have got this is kind of sad. Stun pilot Art Scholl was killed during the production of the movie. He died when his plane failed to recover from a flat spin and plunged into the Pacific Ocean. The film is dedicated to him. Wow. Yeah, sad, but wanted to give a shout out to our show. That is so scary about being a pilot like that. You know, like one minor thing. It's just like, yeah, I'll stay on land.
00:53:30
Speaker
Alright, in Rocky IV during filming, Dolph Lundgren and Carl Weathers actually did not get along in real life. Okay, so after Carl Weathers gets thrown into a corner by Lundgren, he actually announced that he was quitting. He called his agent. I'm like, I'm out of here. Such a Hollywood thing. Yeah, how dare he? Nobody makes me bleed my own blood. Yes. It was actually only after Sylvester Stallone forced the two actors to reconcile that the movie continued.
00:53:53
Speaker
All right. This one I find interesting, but I also, I got a little twist at the end just for you. So Charlie's older man date at the officer's club is the real life Viper. His name is Pete Pettigrew. He's a retired Navy pilot and top gun instructor. And he actually shot down a MIG during the Vietnam war. He served as the technical consultant on the film. So Pete Maverick Mitchell's first name was initially going to be Evan in early scripts, but was changed to Pete as an homage to him, which Pete is way more fitting than Evan.
00:54:23
Speaker
No shade to anyone who's named Evan. It's just, I can't imagine Maverick's first name being Evan. Also, Alex, I know you love Harry Potter, as do I. Pete Pettigrew, Peter Pettigrew, driving force in some of the Harry Potter books. That's great. I wanted to tie that in for you. Love that. Thanks. These are close. They're both pretty interesting. I love that Hollywood, Carl Weathers, just walking off the set. I'm done.
00:54:50
Speaker
That's just funny. And then Stallone being in the ICU for four days is kind of crazy. Also, my first one was really sad. And, you know, it makes me sad. And I don't like being sad. So I'm gonna give this to Rocky. Yeah, I'd say Rocky. I mean, I like the fact that they, you know, they went for the authenticity. They were hitting each other. Yeah. It sounds like something Tom Cruise would do in a movie. It does. I'm sure he has done it in movies. So we are tied three to three going into round seven. Better story, better script, more fun.
00:55:21
Speaker
Both of these movies are fun. I mean, obviously they're fun. We picked it for our podcast. Both of these movies have some great performances, great stories. I love how you set it up at the beginning. You get the rivals, you have friends losing friends and then how they deal with that trauma. To me, it feels like the more impactful film from start to finish is Top Gun. Yeah.
00:55:43
Speaker
And I don't think that's necessarily because of Goose's death. Not that I can relate to either movie, but I feel like Top Gun is more relatable, if that makes sense. I love both of these movies immensely. And I don't know if this would have been my answer if you asked me at 12 years old, but the older I get, the more I enjoy Top Gun.
Final Thoughts and Ratings
00:56:04
Speaker
Mm hmm. Rocky IV has some amazing parts.
00:56:06
Speaker
some of my favorite parts in any of the Rocky films. But from start to finish, Top Gun, little funnier, little more tighter. Yeah. I mean, not that Rocky Forest, like the script is fine, but it's it's formulaic. It's a Rocky movie. Right. By this point, it was just like they knew what people liked and they put it in Top Gun was starting something completely from scratch. And you have some really talented actors doing some amazing work. And it's just so fun. It's crazy to that the sequel makes Top Gun one.
00:56:36
Speaker
a sequel that came out 30 years later or whatever. 30 years later, yeah. Makes Top Gun even more enjoyable to watch again. So for me, I'm going Top Gun. I think Top Gun wins this. One more thing about Rocky IV. It's just incredible that the fourth installment movie
00:56:52
Speaker
Yeah. Could be this good. You know, usually by that point, it's like, yeah, you know, he said it can be formulaic. Yeah, of course. You know, but usually by that time, it's like a cash grab or, you know, it's like this guy needs a little bit more work. So he's going to throw this movie together. I mean, it's great. It's a great movie. I just think when you put it up against Top Gun, it's close. I think it's pretty close, actually. It's going into it. I was like, I don't think it's going to. I think it's going to be Top Gun by a mile. But I still do think Top Gun, you know, edges out. But I'm glad that it was close. I'll say that you can't go wrong with either movie. But if I have to pick, I'm taking Top Gun.
00:57:22
Speaker
Any closing thoughts before we get into our rankings? The topics of these movies, you know, aviation, the Navy and then boxing are two things I'm not interested in outside of movies. But man, they were so they were so fun. Like they were so great. You know, makes me want to watch more movies like this. I want to go back and rewatch all the Rockies, do a run on Tom Cruise movies. I feel like the best movies can take a subject that maybe you're not totally knowledgeable about or interested in.
00:57:48
Speaker
and immerse you into that world immediately. And you leave that thinking that was one of the coolest things I've ever seen. All right. What are you ranking these? So I'm going to keep these pretty tight still. I'm going to give Top Gun an 86 and Rocky for an 82. All right. I am going Top Gun a 92 and Rocky for an 84. Beautiful.
00:58:09
Speaker
Well, Alex, this was a lot of fun. Thank you for indulging me on my birthday. I'm looking forward to our next episode. We have a good one on the docket for Valentine's Day. Let's just say, love is in the air. Ooh, romance. This has been the movie showdown with Rock and Rob. Make sure to like, subscribe, rate, and review all that fun stuff. And follow us on all the socials at Rock and Rob Show. Until next time, peace. I'm out of here. See ya.
00:58:38
Speaker
Just when I think you couldn't possibly be any dumber, you go and do something like this. And totally redeem yourself! I'm not sure what to do with my hands. By affiliation. That's your home! Are you too good for your home? Answer me! Hasta la vista, baby.