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Episode 23: The O.C. 20th Anniversary Commemorative episode.
64 Plays1 year ago
To celebrate this show that only 1 or 2 people on the pod have watched, we discuss board games nd out top 3 character arcs in any media. Oddly, the O.C. doesn't get a start - apologies for spoilers.
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Transcript
Character Development Introduction
00:00:00
Speaker
Three-party podcasts. Excellent. There's a title. There's a title right there.
00:00:06
Speaker
Summer Roberts can be my character arc. Yeah. Original for 20 years. Yeah. No, she went from, you know, Ditzy best friend to environmentalist saving the world. So that's a character arc for you. Insert theme tune here.
Episode 23 and Sports Legends
00:00:23
Speaker
Captain Planet. Oh no. Don't use the sound effects now.
00:00:35
Speaker
We've had it for way too long. Well, I guess we're doing a chin wag. We are doing a chin wag.
00:01:04
Speaker
We're just going to all just chat and chinwags. So here you go. Episode 23. Sounds good. Yeah. Sounds good. Lucky 23. What season are we in? Two. Favorite sports person to wear number 23. Ooh, that's a tough one. He'd said 24, I would have said I'll have said yeah. No, I know my favorite sports person for the 23.
Personal Anecdotes on Sports
00:01:32
Speaker
My son, Max, he wore number 23 for the League of Tigers. And in his opening season, kicked under how many goals? Full forward, he was a gun, so. Total weapon, like his dad. Yeah, his dad wore number five, so nowhere near number 23. It's still obvious that, right, Steve?
00:01:55
Speaker
I'll see. I grew up as a Magic Johnson fan, so I hated Jordan. I appreciate how amazing he was. I'd probably go with Warnie, Warnie War 23.
00:02:05
Speaker
Yeah. Just so you know, if you guys had given me prior knowledge that this was a sports podcast, I wouldn't be here. If you told me this was an OC podcast, I would still be here. I know you would, buddy. If you told me this was a podcast, I would hesitate to hear you. People can hear this? It is concerning. I'm going to get arrested. So fun fact, it's a fun fact.
The Magic Round Jersey Story
00:02:32
Speaker
I went to the Magic Round recently here in Australia where they played all the, you know, that rugby came into Brisbane. And I bought a Magic Round jersey. I gave it to Max, presented it to him. I had number 23 on the back. He's telling all his mates, my dad bought me this jersey with my number on the back because that's what I wore when I was buying footy. I went, mate, it's not because it's that, it's because it's 2023.
00:03:03
Speaker
It was so sudden. Take that credit. So what have we been all playing?
Board Game Obsession
00:03:12
Speaker
I will kick off with a game we played for all of, I don't know, five and a half hours. At least they, I'll start off, played obsession for right about three hours. Has anyone played a session before here?
00:03:29
Speaker
Great game. It was my second, third play. So first play didn't understand what I was doing. Second play was just pressing button on the BGA. Third play taught by Christy Joseph. It's on BGA? Yeah. On BGA, yes. So we can get a game going by the way. And Christy teaches the game so well. I understood it and we played
00:03:59
Speaker
a game for about three hours. Very enjoyable. What I really liked about the game is you get all these cards and all these people with their faces and you get like, you know, sir, blah, blah, blah. And yeah, you read their scripting. But what I like about it is you actually make up your own scripting for it. So at one point I had a cigar room going,
00:04:27
Speaker
where I had to send three gentlemen to the cigar room. So I had, you know, you know, the, the, the, the game is about all about you are the host and you've got to show your guests that come into your house and you've got to show up standing. So I took three people to the cigar room where they could, you know, have a nice afternoon, three gentlemen. It was the head of the house and two other people. Meanwhile,
00:04:56
Speaker
the lady of the house was taking some other sir that decided to visit during the next week over to the tennis courts for a bit of rompy rompy. And that's the best part of the game. You make up your own- That's the official term there, right? Yeah, rompy rompy. Yep. Almost. Almost. There we are. Very good. They were burning their own little spots on the lawn court.
00:05:22
Speaker
And so you make up your own little stories on the side. God, that was good fun.
Humor in Board Games
00:05:27
Speaker
We were having a great laugh of whatever other stories we could come up with. Needless to say, the lawn bowls circuit in my house was a little porn site, really, when you think about it. Everyone was going everywhere for it. I feel like I've played a different version of this game. You've got to do it. It's so much fun. Chance at the old EBDBB.
00:05:52
Speaker
And that, but anyway. Good fun, obsession, hilarious. Especially when you do the adults only version. The R-rated version of obsession. My favorite thing about that game, and it is
Exploring John Company
00:06:05
Speaker
on the cards, is that because it's, you know, old style Victorian England and very classy families and all the rest.
00:06:12
Speaker
And some of the characters, they might be really upstanding characters. Like they might be business owners and, you know, own shipping companies or whatever else. And then it's like, but they're from America, negative three points. Like every American character in the game is negative victory points. So it's like Americans. I love it.
00:06:37
Speaker
A fun game and absolutely recommend. Just change the storyline a little bit. Just tweak it. Just tweak. And then we went into John Company. Holy shitballs. Long game. Fun. We played it very, very friendly. But I ended up with a win. So enough said. John Company fun.
00:07:06
Speaker
Fair enough.
Family Gaming Day
00:07:07
Speaker
Can I just ask a question back on Obsession, Shane? Would you consider, because this is kind of what I'm thinking, and maybe I just haven't played other games like it, but I think it's a very unique game. I can't really pin it down to a mechanism. It just doesn't seem like anything else. If you get your cards going,
00:07:32
Speaker
in the right way, as if a deck building. If you get your deck building going well, it helps you. So I ended up winning, there was certain cards that were dealt out where you've got to have the most in certain families, but a total luck pull. I had that for three rounds in a row, which gave me a lot of, you know,
00:08:00
Speaker
points in the standings of my family, that's important. So if you can get your deck building going really well and where you're playing certain cards, one after the other, that helps you. So I'd say it's a deck builder. Yeah, I guess, yeah. I love the purchasing of the buildings and then the playing of the buildings to flip them and make them stronger. It's really a good game. Yeah, it's a fantastic game.
00:08:30
Speaker
I'll jump in. I had an awesome experience with Joe last Wednesday, I think. He brought around his fully blinged out version of Castles of Burgundy. Oh, stop. I'm hanging up now. Goodbye.
00:08:48
Speaker
It was so funny because, you know, I think I've previously talked about Castle of Burgundy didn't really grab me as a game. And to be completely honest, it's a good game. It's still after playing the deluxified amazing Fend Engle version. I still wouldn't say it's an amazing game. It's just, it's great. I'd play it, but it's nothing, well, to me anyway. I know it's a lot of people's favorite games. I don't want to disappoint anyone. But yeah, I'll tell you what, that production is
00:09:15
Speaker
pretty nice. And it's the first time I've actually played the game where I actually knew what all the buildings and stuff did, because it's a lot easier to see the colors are a little bit more easily defined, which was always a problem with the old, the two old versions is that I like, I thought I was putting down
00:09:32
Speaker
like farm yards, but I was actually doing that on the on the city tiles because they're very similar colors for me. So I always struggle with that. And I just whenever I played it on BGA, I'm just like, oh, yeah, I'll just this building will do and not really paying attention to what buildings already had or what what benefits the buildings give you. So it's definitely a better game when you play it right. That's for sure. It's pretty much a golden rule of any game, I guess.
00:09:57
Speaker
But we just played random mats and Joe did a really good job just re-explaining the rules so that I went in there a little bit less blind. And he got a good win in the first round and then I got a good win in the second round and it was just nice to play a game that
00:10:15
Speaker
Like I got a lot of overproduced games or at least maybe not overproduced, but very nice productions of games. And almost the only the problem is almost all of them are long games, which makes sense. You don't want to spend one hundred and fifty dollars in a game that goes for 30 minutes. But the one thing I will say about that overproduced version of Castles of Burgundy is it's the length of game is is enough that you'll see that
00:10:43
Speaker
quality more often because you finish a game in an hour, hour and 15 minutes. So it's more likely to come to the table because it's quicker. He's since he's born, him and his wife have played it like eight or nine times. And then we played it twice when he came into my house. And I was like, this is a game that I could teach Helen and she would love it because it's not too long. And that's, that's kind of like in her wheelhouse.
00:11:03
Speaker
So I could see why they did it where initially I thought, why, why are they spending, making this, who's going to spend $300 on this? But as it turns out, I can see the value, even though personally I was like, I would never spend $300 in a game like that. I actually kind of reverse back and go, I absolutely get it. So.
00:11:21
Speaker
If anyone's out there who got it, I'm sure you'll love it. The only downside Joe has is for some reason, he didn't get the acrylic tiles of one kind. So he got acrylic tiles of everything except for the workers. And so he's like, I just thought, why? Who cares about the workers? And then he's like, as soon as he got it, he's like, I've made a huge mistake.
00:11:48
Speaker
Yep, I went all in, I'm still waiting for mine. Shouldn't be far away, I got mine last week. Oh, stop. And I have started teaching Lauren how to play on BGA. So we're playing our first game tonight. That's awesome. Yeah, only because I want to be able to play it when I get the whole new acrylic tiles,
00:12:16
Speaker
I mean, it was good because I understood how you thrashed us in that game. We played on BGA now. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't. I randomly click buttons until the game finished. I scored 30 points.
00:12:35
Speaker
It's not my best game. The best game I've ever played was 278 points. Oh, wow. That is a massive score. Seems like a lot of points. It's a lot of points. Although then again, like it just seemed like you were just always getting points in that game. It's like, I'm going to do this really basic move. Oh, seven points. It's just points, points, points. It's a Stephen Feld game. So you just open the box and you get four victory points for opening the box. It's crazy.
00:13:04
Speaker
Picked up the rule book as another eight points. The best tip I ever had was always trying to get your mining tiles out in the first round and your game set. So there you go. Giving everyone a big tip.
00:13:20
Speaker
Yeah. So that was me anyway. That was the standout.
Board Game Reviews
00:13:23
Speaker
I played a few other games, but that was definitely the standout was getting to play that U-Butte fen dangled version of a game. And I think I enjoyed it more so just because it was nice to play a U-Butte fen dangled version of a game that I didn't have to pay for. That was delightful. Yes, that is good. Well, there's plenty of people in this group that probably own it. You'll be right.
00:13:47
Speaker
Well, I had kind of a mixed bag of gaming. Shane said we played John Company, which I taught and was not across enough to teach well that we'd got through in the end. And I think everyone had
00:13:58
Speaker
It was a little bit tired after obsession, so it went for a little bit too long, but it was a thoroughly enjoyable game. We did get through it an entire game, which was nice. But as Shane said, we played the intro co-op campaign-y type version, so it's very friendly, and I'd be very keen to see what it looks like. Full backstabby, aggressive mode.
00:14:17
Speaker
So it was good. And then actually I've probably bought a regular Steve Chivers day with his family, a day of board gaming with the kids in the family today. So my littlest one very early this morning decided he wanted to play some games. So he started grabbing stuff off the shelf and we played Galway Monster a few times, which is a little game, random draw game.
00:14:40
Speaker
He got out, you know, and we all learn, you know, and we played that big fan. He's four and he's really enjoying these games. And then we got the crocodile set out and we had a bit of a impromptu crocodile tournament on the kitchen table. So it was just a full solid day of family gaming. Yeah. We drop it down, play with the dog for a bit and eat some food and then back into gaming. So I had an awesome time.
00:15:05
Speaker
Another thing I did learn this week, we had our primary school trivia evening on Friday night, and a few drinks were had, it was quite a loose occasion, which was good. But I found out of the 100 or so people in the room, I am the best one at making and throwing paper airplanes. Ah, well done.
00:15:22
Speaker
Yeah, I scored three of the bonus points for our team and we came equal first, all because of my paper plane skills. So what did you do? Did you go jet, like very slim line? Oh, super slim line. Yeah, you got 60 seconds. I'm like, ah, I got this. That's what I'm telling you. It's great. Good feeling. That's good. Well done. That takes a lot much.
00:15:50
Speaker
My children tried to do family gay day with me and I sort of vetoed it.
00:15:59
Speaker
So I managed to last night, I played some, we've been playing a lot of draconic dice because it's literally a five minute game and everybody just has to roll some dice. So Hugo can play it. My elders can play it. It's a bit of fun. Liam got in on it today. So Liam played a dice game, not a board game, but a dice game. Um, but I played, um, some guess who?
00:16:23
Speaker
A little bit of phase 10. Um, but yeah, that was all, they kept begging for more and I'm like, eh, we will just not right now, maybe tomorrow night. But, um, yes, they would have loved the day that you had Dave. Well, when the crocodile board being set up, it's just a bonus. Like you just walk past like, oh, I'll have a go. Crocodile's great. I gotta, I gotta wax my crocodile board. It's a bit, uh, a bit grainy at the moment.
00:16:51
Speaker
I don't actually know what a crocodile board is. Oh, what? Put that on the list with all the Shem Phillips games is something you need to do. Yep. Uh, there's another, my dad gets his crocodile board. There it is there. Oh, wow. So he's playing at home.
00:17:09
Speaker
Yeah, right. Enjoy that podcasters. Imagine a clock without numbers. It doesn't tell you the time. But do they, it looks like the center part of the Hamilton stage. Do they actually turn?
00:17:30
Speaker
No. It's not circles that turn? No. Oh, that's what it looked like. It's about a meter across. You get little hockey pucks and it's like air hockey, but imagine if it was in 1870s with just pieces of wood. Nice. Yes, he was flinging things into circles. I love that. Another game I did teach my father-in-law while he was up here in Rizzi from Adelaide.
00:17:58
Speaker
As you guys know, I have Martian Chess that we're playing. Max and I are playing turn-based where, you know, we move the dice and it's his go. He moves the dice, it's my go. So, Lauren's dad was up here recently and so the Big Max, as we call him, and Little Max played Martian Chess where I taught Big Max how to play it. They played three rounds, loved it. They both loved the game.
00:18:28
Speaker
And for those that haven't played Martian Chess, get into it. It's good fun. It's all over in about 10 minutes. It's not like
Disinterest in Earth Game
00:18:38
Speaker
a super, super hard, like normal chess. But then if you play turn-based, Max and I can go two weeks. We're playing turn-based Martian Chess. It's super, super fun. So I've printed, I've got, I've now got,
00:18:58
Speaker
a full chess board of two different colors. So when you play Martian chess, normally you only play with a half chess board and both have the same colors. So you both green, for example. That's all about pips. So you have your pawns, your rooks, and your queens. Your queens wear three points, rooks two, pawns one, both same colors. I've now gone to a full chess board where I've got green,
00:19:25
Speaker
and purple on either side. And Max and I are playing, um, Martian chess. It's awesome. Awesome fun. Game money. Come on. Save us from the dead air. Hurry up. What? What? Um, I haven't done, I've done fuck all. Yeah. Sing for your supper. I don't want any supper. Uh, I just played, I've just played BGA games with you guys.
00:19:56
Speaker
That's it. I have to say... Yeah. I was just gonna say, I have to say I will never play Earth again. I have never given so little effort to a game. I literally like, what's the least I can do on my turn? I'm putting buttons, Helen. I'm just going, yep, I'm doing that move. Yeah. Whatever it's telling me I'm doing. It's so disappointing. It's such a great game. I'm so surprised because I thought it'd be right up your alley, Helen. No, I can't handle it. I hate it.
00:20:27
Speaker
Thanks to our sponsors for this week. The planet, not the board game. The planet, no. Next week it's Mars, so don't worry. Are you still playing Marvel's Snaptree money? Yeah. My only other achievement for this week is I've got to Infinite for the first time. Hey, good job, well done. Yeah, finished, officially finished. And I put it down. Perfect. Yeah, completed the online game.
00:20:54
Speaker
Actually, I was going to ask you, Steve, I had a game of Teotihuacan and I thought I did exceedingly well.
Teotihuacan Scoring Dynamics
00:21:00
Speaker
I was, I was pumped. I was chuffed. I got to like 170. Like, yeah, that's a huge score. It's like one of the highest scores I ever got. I came like equal last. Like the winning guy got 248.
00:21:15
Speaker
Like, is that a normal score? It really depends on, did you guys use the, did you randomize the locations?
00:21:25
Speaker
Yeah, it's random locations. Yeah, because you'll find that depending on how they set up, sometimes you can get a really high score because you might be able to pick up your stone on the way to building tiles and you might be able to pick up your gold on the way to decorating. They can chain really well sometimes and they can also chain really poorly. Yeah, my top score is like 298, I think, was my top score. But that was worth the expansion as well, which does make it a little bit easier to score points.
00:21:55
Speaker
Yeah, it's yeah, you'll find that if you feel like you're doing really well, then most people will feel like they're doing really well. Yeah, I bet it was that. Yeah, it was like, because a normal base game of that, I'll probably get 120 and do fairly well. But just this one game, I don't know what happened. But you're right, it probably was the placement of the actual actions themselves. Hmm. Yeah. Speaking of games, you know, really well
00:22:25
Speaker
DJ. Barrage has come out with two new boards. Have you seen that? No. Two player board. Two player board. There's a new board coming out. It should be coming to Kickstarter very soon. Yep. I'll be getting on that one for sure. I don't know. I played the, was it Denial? I think the other one.
00:22:50
Speaker
I think they had to try to do something with it because they're really that's the only way that you can add more variety into the game. The mechanisms are so good. And the replayability for all of the different like buildings and action choices is so good. But the main the base map was obviously really well structured design, they didn't need to do too much to it. So like trying to completely change game modes by bringing in new boards is kind of the only thing I've got. So I've heard the games broken, though.
00:23:25
Speaker
Well, tell me how to break it. Apparently, anyone that gets the, is it the wrench or there's some kind of thing you can take out of the first. It is a wrench, isn't it? You can pull it out of there. Are we talking clear? No, no, no. Barrage. There's a certain thing that you can pull out of the first.
00:23:50
Speaker
you choose it as your first mechanism, that is yours first, the game, is a game breaker. Is it the wrench or the spanner? It's something along those lines. Yeah, I don't know. I haven't seen a broken combo. I'm not sure there's one on the internet at this stage, but I would Google the wrench. I'm going to Google it right now. All right, you Google and tell me. Because I sound like a dick right now.
00:24:18
Speaker
But that threw me back to one of the questions that we didn't get on Friday night at the trivia
Trivia Night and Cluedo Weapons
00:24:23
Speaker
thing. Name the six Cluedo weapons. Ooh. The six? The six. The rope. Yep. The wrench. The candelabra? Is there a candelabra? Candlestick, yeah. Yep. Rope, wrench, candlestick. Revolver. Yep. Revolver, there is, so that's four.
00:24:46
Speaker
You got 30 seconds and you already... Is there a shovel? No, there's a shovel. There is a... There's a knife. And a knife, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we didn't get the wrench. You didn't get the wrench? That's why he was so quick on the clear. My goddamn wrench is stuck in my head there. Fucking clear.
00:25:09
Speaker
Because, I don't know. Well, we didn't have Cluedo in the house. We've had Simpsons Cluedo. I got it brand new in the 90s. That's the only version I've ever had. Then I got the plutonium rod and the poison donor.
00:25:23
Speaker
and the extended glove. Tell me I'm wrong. I know I'm right. Since it's Pluto. That's hilarious. Yeah. All right. So, Steve, tell us about this topic that you're perlining for our wonderful show.
Favorite Character Arcs Discussion
00:25:41
Speaker
Oh, it's just completely stolen. Yeah, it's completely stolen from somewhere else. A lesser known board game content provided than us, so we can steal it and no one will ever know. Something about dice and towers and stuff, I don't know. But anyway, so the idea was it's your top three character arcs in any kind of media, whether it's TVs, movies, video games, hell, board games, if you can think of one.
00:26:11
Speaker
Yeah, it was a really interesting conversation and I think when everyone, me personally and everyone else I've spoken to about it, when they heard it, they immediately, you just immediately start thinking about all the awesome characters that you remember from stuff. So I'm like, ah, it'd be cool to sort of pin it down. So that was the idea. Love it. So have you got one that you're particularly thinking about when you overheard it and you wanted to talk about it?
00:26:38
Speaker
Oh, well, I've got a top three. So, um, well, okay. My first one is from a TV show that we all love here, uh, which goes by the name of Ted Lasso and it's Rebecca Welton. Okay.
00:26:54
Speaker
I just love the fact that probably the highlight of all of it is, and obviously there may be spoilers, I guess. So apologies for those who may not have gotten there. She starts out obviously very, you know, very antagonist, you know, doing all of this stuff to ruin the club. You know, even right up until, you know, the end of the second season, is she still very much
00:27:20
Speaker
uh sort of driven by Rupert and what Rupert's doing and how that's affecting her and and then in the third series you kind of get to see her finally start to break away from that and be a bit more relaxed and be a bit more happy with who she is and I just think that's really cool because it's it's it was there's there's plenty of awesome character arcs in that tv series but she's my favorite because of
00:27:43
Speaker
Just the, the, she didn't, she started pretty bad and then she got good, but even when she was bad, you could still see that she was, you know, you could still see she was a nice person at heart. Um, like you saw little glimpses of what she can be and, you know, her friendship with Keely starts and you sort of go, oh, that's cool. And then as things progress, she begins to really enjoy Ted's company, which obviously she didn't at the start. And yeah, that's, that's a really cool hack for me. So that was my number, my number three.
00:28:12
Speaker
Very cool. What's your next one? So, um, my next one is, I don't know if you guys have ever seen, uh, Black Sails.
John Silver's Transformation
00:28:23
Speaker
No. Okay. Black Sails is basically the prior to, uh, Treasure Island, you know, the Louis Stevenson, um, book Treasure Island, the story of Treasure Island, like, um, Long John Silver, et cetera, et cetera. This is like,
00:28:41
Speaker
So the character is John Silver who basically starts out, weasels his way onto a ship. The ship's getting overrun by pirates. So he hides down in the kitchen and there's a chef there and he realizes that they're not gonna kill the chef because they need someone to cook for them. So he kills the chef
00:29:09
Speaker
and then he pretends to be a chef for his own survival. That's where he starts. So he's like this weaselly guy who doesn't really belong in that world, but he's being opportunistic and doing whatever he can to survive. And then as the show progresses throughout its seasons, he's the main character that it's
00:29:31
Speaker
It's very much about how he goes from this weaselly little person who'll do anything to benefit himself to really a leader of other men and women in the show, but to a point where he has to completely take on this persona of Long John Silver and prove to people that he is not to be messed with and he's not to be
00:29:56
Speaker
you know, don't try and overrun or, you know, call a mutiny on him or anything like that because he'll mess you up. And there's this brilliant scene in it where basically you can see the distress in him when he has to with his wooden leg kill someone by like slamming his slamming his leg down on this guy's head. And it's kind of like you can see that he doesn't want to do it, but he needs to do it because that's what
00:30:23
Speaker
that's what the character that he's he needs to be needs to do like he needs to show that strength even though you can kind of tell that it's not really him and the best way that's shown at the very end of the series the person that was the captain of this ship before
00:30:39
Speaker
the eventual situation where Long John Silver takes over is this Captain Flint. And over throughout the series, you find out all these interesting things about him, one in particular being that he had this love interest that he could he long lost and very controversial at the time. And
00:30:57
Speaker
So it was clear that Flint needed to go, but Silver, instead of actually killing him and doing what everyone thought he did, he made everyone think that he killed him, but he actually organized for him to find this long lost love interest. So like he still had that compassion at heart. It's just, it's very, very interesting. Starts off, starts off very
00:31:19
Speaker
weak willed and opportunistic to someone very different at the other end so that's my number two.
Jaime Lannister's Journey
00:31:28
Speaker
Okay so in order I like Jamie Lannister from Game of Thrones and I'm not talking about the TV show
00:31:39
Speaker
Right, because they they absolutely butchered the whole concept of the show as the seasons went on. But from the books, Jamie Lannister. But how do you know where he got to with the books? Because they're not finished yet. I know, but that's OK. You can even even where the dates are. Yeah, even where all the books are, he's still amazing. Like you didn't really need to do much more. So because didn't he end up interacting with the
00:32:07
Speaker
like the mom who got killed in the red wedding in the books yeah she got she got raised yeah yeah there's a whole lot of weird shit yeah I remember that being really different yes yeah she comes back to life or allegedly she comes back to life I don't know if they ever really yeah but with Jamie like doesn't she like sort him out somehow what do you mean
00:32:33
Speaker
It's been a little while since I read the books, but I thought that her and Jamie and Brienne all sort of got together and things happened Yeah, yeah, Brienne and Jamie got together definitely. I can't remember whether Yeah, anyway, but he comes he turns from like complete another asshole worst character and does a full 180 basically or is on his way to doing a full 180 and
00:32:59
Speaker
and becomes like the most empathetic like forward-thinking character that there is sort of like on the back end of what the books are like you know he everywhere every other character turns to shit he turns the other way around yeah but he was pretty bad to start with yeah oh yeah he was like you know first first bit murdering a kid yeah while he's having ancestral sex with his sister
00:33:27
Speaker
He didn't murder him, he survived. I've never read it or watched the show but I know that much. But I think he was a good character before the books like when he killed the Mad King and then like everyone basically didn't give him any credit and his name reputation turned to shit.
00:33:52
Speaker
And he just lived the Lannister life for a while. So I think the character was already there. He just needed something to spare it on. Losing your hand does that from time to time. He had a hard look. Luke Skywalker happened to be Luke Skywalker? He did the right thing. But murdering the king is probably never really the right thing. Ah, depends on the king. Good one, G. Good one. Yeah, that was mine. I'll do another one if you want. Perfect. Yes, no, go.
Cordelia's Growth in Buffy and Angel
00:34:21
Speaker
Everyone's anyone wins watched Buffy and or Angel. Yes so Cordelia Buffy and Angel like Cordelia starts off as Ditzy teenage like almost frenemy sidekick and By the end of Angel. She is the heart and soul of that entire team and holds everything together throughout all of Angel and
00:34:48
Speaker
So from a character to turn into what was almost a throwaway character, and there's plenty of examples of characters that like Spike, for example, was only supposed to be in the show for like two episodes. And James Masters did such a good job that he became such an integral character. Spike's my sister's favorite.
00:35:06
Speaker
Yeah. So she just she just and the way she what she was in Angel was just yeah, it was like watching the character go through an entire arc to become such an amazing thing and also all the shit that she had to deal with on the actual set as well. Yeah. But those are those are my two. I've got another one in the chamber, but I'll have give someone else a go.
00:35:34
Speaker
saving the number one. So I love it. All right.
Community's Character Shifts
00:35:39
Speaker
Um, so slightly different take, but the, I really, we've talked a little bit about, I really like the community as the show and the whole thing. And I was in almost from the start watching a longer that as it came out live.
00:35:53
Speaker
the entire show has such a interesting sort of meta story that goes along with it and it's a very meta show that goes about stuff but the heart and soul of the show in the first season was all about Jeff who's like the weasily lawyer and it was about his redemption story but
00:36:09
Speaker
weirdly the whole as he got better he actually got more boring as a character and the whole show kind of moved away from him and the show then more becomes being about Abed who actually then ends up sticking through all of the weirdness and the characters leaving and you know his best friend leaving they did a whole show about when his best friend in the show leaves as because the actor leaves they did a show about how he's struggling with the breakup of his friendship
00:36:34
Speaker
but it was just a weird arc of an entire show that it went through the creator getting fired and getting cancelled by the network and getting brought back and brand new characters brought in for individual seasons and from start to finish the the entire show changed to be about the characters in the show they all went on this massive journey but individually they all had sort of fantastic arcs and
00:37:01
Speaker
I think it resolves a lot of that sort of stuff really well. But yeah, Troy, but Sue Barnes being the, the ex quarterback to being one of the nerdiest characters on the history of TV and then going on a round the world cruise with LeVar Burton and getting arrested by pirates. Yeah. Can't wait to find out what happens with the movie. Can't wait to see what happens in the movie. Is Troy coming back for the movie? Allegedly. They're all coming back except for Chevy.
00:37:28
Speaker
Yep. He's dead. He's dead now, right? He's got to be dead now. Too much, too much sperm. Oh. Plus the replacement. Plus I liked the replacement Chevy. I don't know what the actor's name is, but the old guy. Jonathan Banks. Yeah, Mike Ermitraut. Yeah. And then Keith David. Mike the Fixer. And then everyone's favorite voiceover actor, Keith David.
Juggernaut's Redemption in X-Men
00:37:57
Speaker
The quality of the show was unreal.
00:38:02
Speaker
And then the other one, so I've been getting into the X-Men a fair bit lately, sorry, X-Men character for the other one, and it's a very current one, but, so Juggernaut is the character, and I've got the really good arc on, mostly because very recent events in the comic, like the ones coming out this week, but ultimately, everyone I think kinda knows the story of Juggernaut, like, bad guy, got a magic gem, has super powers, he's unstoppable, he's Professor X's brother, and just, he's in the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants and does a whole bunch of bad shit,
00:38:33
Speaker
Eventually there's a bit of a subtext in there that he's got like a uncredited male partner that he lives with in this castle in Scotland and he comes in and out through the characters like of the last 60 years of the X-Men but they've been doing this redemption story with him for a little while where he's actually sort of misunderstood and trying to do the right thing and he just gets sort of sidetracked and influenced by bad people.
00:38:59
Speaker
Um, and so in recent terms in the story, they've done this, uh, bit of a, I guess, a softening on him where he's actually trying to do the right thing and he's being allowed to and supported to. So, um, last month they had a public vote with the X-Men and they do this every year now where they put out to the general readership, who would you like to see on the team of the X-Men? And they then write that person that wins the vote into the story. Yeah, right.
00:39:26
Speaker
So Juggernaut won the public fan vote this year. And so they wrote the story around him where now he's one of the nominated X-Men and they actually vote him onto the team. So in the next little while, Juggernaut is going to be an X-Man. He's going to be helping save people. That's awesome.
00:39:43
Speaker
So again, it's kind of a influenced by public opinion and feeling, but it's a character has been around for 60 years in terms of story progression. And his whole thing is he's just an unstoppable record machine. And there's a crappy movie where Vinnie Jones played him in. I'm the juggernaut bitch. Defeated by a wall in that movie, by the way. Yeah.
00:40:14
Speaker
Yeah, but and just weird random stuff like there's lots of little snippets with him, but he because he's unstoppable. They just did a recent story where they fired him out of a rail gun. And for 1000 years, he sort of traversed the entire galaxy on this direct path and then killed Galactus. It's a whole thing. But yeah, he he can't he's basically invincible and can't be stopped. So
00:40:39
Speaker
interesting to try and see how he becomes a bad guy, a good guy to use that power for good. But anyway, juggernaut. Let's kick it off with, you know, I love Ted Lassie, right?
Ted Lasso's Coach Beard and Keeley
00:40:53
Speaker
When you talk about character arcs, there's quite a few. And I'm gonna go with Coach Beard. That's my first one.
00:41:02
Speaker
So, coach, you know, he tried to slowly assert himself as, you know, the person to be in the show and also to, you know, assert himself as the team's success. He struggled with his own anxieties and, you know, let's face it, that relationship with the girlfriend, absolutely toxic. She was feral, right? And, um,
00:41:31
Speaker
However, you know, at the end of the series, he evolved to be the most sympathetic fella. At that moment where he walked in and he walked into that, he knocked on the door and he said, you know, come back to the team. For me, pure, pure, pure Jim loved the show. So for me, that was one of the big character moments where
00:41:59
Speaker
we saw someone that was total hard-ass to someone that can forgive and forget and move on. And then you have the total opposite where you had the total powerhouse kick-ass person in Ted Lasso, in Kelsey Jones. Here's a person that was a PR consultant
00:42:28
Speaker
Well, actually before she, if she even became a PR consultant, she was this lowly person in the back end of the club. And went on this, you know, total discovery of self-empowerment and total kick-ass as a lady, as a businesswoman, where she ended up becoming, you know, running the whole business on her own and a fan favorite for the show. She was just brilliant.
00:42:58
Speaker
End up with number one. Are you going into it? Hey, are you holding you? I'll go into my number one. Oh, okay. It's got your system with Ted lasso. No, number one for me, a lowly old boy who was destitute and had nothing.
00:43:27
Speaker
He was some kind of orphan, no father at all. Had a mother, but no father. Ends up becoming the person that runs the whole of the fucking universe empire. Where he was taught both ways of the force. And
00:43:56
Speaker
Just brilliant. The best character arc ever in all of cinema, movies, TV of all time. And Eken Skywalker. Full stop. Fair enough. Excellent. That you, Helen? Yeah. Righty-o, let the OC begin.
00:44:24
Speaker
Not on my list. I gave an honourable mention earlier to Rachel Billson, AKA Summer.
Alexis's Evolution in Schitt's Creek
00:44:30
Speaker
Um, so I'm going to start with Alexis from Schitt's Creek. So she's, I don't know if you've all seen Schitt's Creek, but basically she's there. It's about a family who lose all their money and have to go live in this town that they bought called Schitt's Creek. Uh, it's Dan Levy with his dad, Eugene Levy's in it. They play father and son.
00:44:52
Speaker
So your sister Alexis and then Catherine O'Hara plays the mother, but it's hilarious. You should all watch it. I recommend it. She starts off as this completely ditzy, rich, privileged girl who just, you know, parties her life away. And throughout the show, she grows as a person. She finishes school, she studies, she becomes her PR consultant and actually chooses
00:45:20
Speaker
herself over the love of the life and just, you know, grows and wants to make it on her own. And so she has an amazing character arc. Um, and my second is, I'm going to finish off round out the Ted Lassos with Jamie Tartt. Um, you know, going from an obnoxious, you know, very,
00:45:44
Speaker
up yourself person who you find is so layered because of everything he's been through with his family. And the growth he goes on by having the support of his team to becoming such a team player by the end. And yeah, I think he has one of the absolute best acts of that series. Now I'm going to keep my number one. So we'll go back to you, Steve.
00:46:11
Speaker
All right, so my number one is actually from a movie franchise that I don't love that much. It's great, but it's like some people are wild for this and I'm not wild for it, but my number one character arc is Neville Longbottom.
Neville Longbottom's Heroic Arc
00:46:27
Speaker
from Harry Potter. I haven't read the books so I can only talk from the movies but I love that. You haven't read the books? Yeah, no. You need to read the fucking books. I've read, well you know what it is. I've listened to their audio books from Stephen Fry, right? They're not reading the books. Let me finish the story.
00:46:47
Speaker
So we used to drive from Cloncurry to Brisbane and we'd always listen to a Harry Potter audiobook on the way down. But then like the first book takes like 38 hours on audiobook and it's a 19 hour drive to Cloncurry. So you'd be like, oh yeah, well you just listen to it on the way back and you'd be done. No, because we're so engrossed.
00:47:05
Speaker
that when we get to Brisbane, we watch the movie. Then we just skip to book two, and then we get home and then we watch the second movie. We've never actually finished the audiobook. So I've heard, I've read some of the book, I guess you'd say, books through that period. But yeah, Neville, I just love that he is always understated throughout the whole, every chapter. He's not the hero. He's not the one out there fighting the, you know,
00:47:34
Speaker
fantastical beasts and whatever else he is. But from series one, he's the guy who is the most loyal and he does the right thing. He he dobs him in for sneaking out in Philosopher's Stone right up until obviously the end where realistically he is the hero of the entire story. Yeah, I just I just love that he remained that same. I guess it's hard to say an arc when you remain the same, but like he became this
00:48:04
Speaker
you know, excellent wizard, but maintain that loyalty and that respect for rules and respect for his house and his friends right up until the end where everyone else was done. No one else thought there was any way that, you know, that Voldemort would be defeated, but he wouldn't take that. And he put himself in a line and yeah, Neville's a legend.
00:48:28
Speaker
I wouldn't say he's the hero of the whole thing. He definitely had his part. He was definitely an integral part. But you can't go, oh, well, Harry's defeated six of the Horcruxes, but Neville got that last one. Do you know what I mean? You've got to give some support to Harry. fair. But at the same time, though, it was more that everyone else was done.
00:48:52
Speaker
No one, all these amazing wizards that have, you know, adults, kids, whatever. Yeah. No one thought they were going to come out on top, except Neville was the only one to stand up and do something about it. So he started a revolution like he's a resistance leader.
00:49:09
Speaker
Oh, 100%. No, and he became so strong and his strength that he got in belief in himself across the series was huge. Don't get me wrong. Amazing character. I agree with you. Probably one of the best ones. And especially if you think that he could have been the chosen one. He could have been Harry Potter.
00:49:29
Speaker
It was Voldemort that assumed they were talking about Lily and James. He very well, like it could have been Neville as well. So yeah, I'm not against the choice. I'm just very supportive. That's awesome. Yeah. Plus the evolution just of the actor, right? From what he looked like in season one to what he looks like now. It's a great character arc. He's a beautiful man. Don't read some books, Steve. Bloody hell.
00:50:01
Speaker
What's yours, Dave?
Edge of Tomorrow's Character Arc
00:50:04
Speaker
Look, mine, it's a movie. It's one of my favorite movies. I do watch it fairly regularly. So controversial choice being Tom Cruise, but Edge of Tomorrow. I absolutely love Tom Cruise's character progression in Edge of Tomorrow in the movie. So good.
00:50:23
Speaker
I couldn't go with another X-Men. We're all supportive, we're all supportive. He's actually number one. Yeah. Save space. Such a good actor, such a good movie. Everybody hates the guy, but man, he just, in the space of a two hour movie with a lot of ass kicking and explosive, he turns it from being just a complete piece of shit to saving the world. That is your number one arc. Yeah.
00:50:50
Speaker
and one of his favorite films. It's a great movie. Great movie. It's a great movie. And I get the feeling they're not going to actually make another one. They can't. It's because they're shit. Wow. Shane's done. You just made the list, PG.
00:51:20
Speaker
This is going to take some editing this episode, far out. What the fuck did you just say to me? Oh, that is, yeah, that's a good one, dude. G, do you have one? Yeah, so I'm going to piggyback off Shane and go one step further and go to Ahsoka Tano.
Ahsoka Tano's Star Wars Journey
00:51:46
Speaker
That's a good one as well.
00:51:47
Speaker
who was the apprentice of Anakin Skywalker and then developed from a timid, quiet little whatever her race is. I can't even remember what her race is. Is she a Twi'lek? She's a Twi'lek and she kicks ass. Yeah. And if you've watched the Clone Wars TV show, she encapsulates not only the growth of the show,
00:52:14
Speaker
but also the fact that she stands up to the Jedi Order. She sees them as hubris and quite hypocritical. They actually exile her. She becomes a Grey Jedi. She fights Darth Vader at the height of his powers not once but twice, holds her own, and basically has a massive part to play in the rest of the saga.
00:52:39
Speaker
So she becomes like, she basically encapsulates one of the best arcs inside of Star Wars that I can see. Has she been in any movie? No. Pure, like after movie character. She's in between movie character. Yeah, Clone Wars and now she's in most of like, she's in The Mandalorian and a few other bits and pieces. In cartoons. She's been in cartoons, but not movies, no. The Clone Wars TV show, like not the movie.
00:53:09
Speaker
All right. Well, I'm going to finish it off with, um, Logan from Veronica Mars.
Logan's Growth in Veronica Mars
00:53:18
Speaker
Uh, no, I'm sorry. He wants to. It's Wolverine, right? Yeah. I know. It's only Logan. I know. I mean, no, no, no.
00:53:35
Speaker
James Howard. I could have gone Wolverine, but I don't actually know. I didn't watch the movie, Logan, so I can't actually tell you how his arc ended. It's pretty good. We've got claws out for this other Logan. I can tell you that. Logan's coming back as well with Deadpool 3. Well, there you go. If somebody wants to jump in and talk about your Logan, happy to. Let it talk, all right? Let it talk. Did you just mean it? No, I said let her talk. No, I said let her talk.
00:54:06
Speaker
Anyway, he goes from organizing bum fights and being just an absolute jackass to really supporting Veronica Mars and then, you know, looking out for her and loving her and, you know, going to therapy and ending up being this really great guy. They finally get married and then they kill him in a car bomb. What's Tracy's name? Veronica. Classic OC. Oh, sorry. There it is. And there it is. Yeah.
00:54:36
Speaker
So yeah. Cool. Awesome. What a way to end on a low. Oh, you know, maybe I thought Veronica Mars was a band. So I've just found out about a whole TV series I wasn't aware of. So yeah, she's a, she's a kid detective, her best friend. You can probably skip it. It's Kristen Bell. It's Kristen Bell. I'll give it a run, Steve. See what you think.
00:55:07
Speaker
I know my wife loves Schitt's Creek, so I'm probably more likely to give that a run. Schitt's Creek is great. I watched the first two episodes. I've never seen it before. I literally just started today. You did not. I did. Seriously. I told you, he's in front of everybody. He listened to this already and went, oh, I should watch that. This is like when Arbed makes those movies about what's about to happen. Yeah.
00:55:35
Speaker
Go away, Abed. You already know your lines. Laura and I were a bit too straight from episode two. We were hooked. We watched the whole thing. Brilliant. Great stuff.
00:55:46
Speaker
Well, I recommend it to somebody who had watched Lasso and then he was watching that and was like, okay, what's next? And so I said, look, you know, you should give, you know, have you seen community? But I'm like, you should give the league a go if you don't mind a little bit of crassness. And I said, you know, and then otherwise Superstore would be the other one I would recommend.
00:56:09
Speaker
I started watching that. That didn't grab me as much superstore. But again, Helen kept watching it and she thought that she said it got really good. It's a lot more derated, right? Yeah, it's your more general audience. Yes. We're watching at the moment the Flower of Alice Heart, which is an Australian show on Amazon Prime.
00:56:32
Speaker
Yeah, is that a sad show? Oh, yeah, it's good. Yeah. No, I don't. I don't do sad shit. Things have to be joyous for me to watch. No joy. No joy at this moment. It's a really good show. Out of curiosity, when Shane started describing Darth Vader, did anyone else think he was going to say Alexander Hamilton?
00:56:59
Speaker
I thought he was going to say Batman. He's like, didn't have a father, had a mother, but, you know, not for long and came from nothing. And I'm like, far out. This is not really a character arc. It's it's. You know what? He's the priest. Do you actually want to know what I want to go with the character arc tonight? Yes. Did you tomorrow? Hitler. There you go. It's an actual recording. Yeah.
00:57:27
Speaker
It's already going to be hard enough to edit this show, Shay. That's about all we have time for tonight. All right. Finish us off. Finish us off.
00:57:49
Speaker
Well yes, that was a strong finish I think. Until Steve cuts it all out and then we just sort of start laughing randomly for no reason. Any honorable mentions that anybody had? I don't feel like I should say mine because I might get ridiculed by its various members of the podcast again.
00:58:08
Speaker
The entire cast of Ted Lasso could probably have gotten a run like how we didn't talk about Roy Kent. But yeah, there's so many good ones there. The humble worker meeple. What a character arc. It had gained arms and legs and a head and everything. The Oompa Loompas. Different colours. The Oompa Loompas. Tell us more. No, the Oompa Loompas, eh? Awesome.
00:58:37
Speaker
They created so many different types of chocolate. And they sang the song. I've got a problem. Again, everything is going to be insane. Only this podcast can you go from Hitler to Oompa Loompas in under three minutes. If I just go, oh, didn't work, guys. See, this one actually gets deleted.
00:59:07
Speaker
and no editing required. Hey DG, someone's selling custom goat hides on Marketplace for 125 bucks. Did you see the, you must have seen it because I think you will see it, but the Chanel branded rat bikini? Yes. Oh my God. That was one of the most horrifying images I've ever seen. Gee, has the suit sold eventually? Yeah, no, they took it off.
00:59:37
Speaker
They wouldn't, they wouldn't, I haggled, they wouldn't sell it. I realised what they had. They know what they had. Well, I know. One day. I'm going to stop recording at the moment. Make a pack of costume update. It's been a while. Anybody getting kicked out of it?
01:00:04
Speaker
Halloween's coming up. We've probably got to get some Halloween movies in there. Just replay the original Halloween episode. That means we're up to almost up to a year. That's impressive. Yeah. Episode 24? Yeah. Every couple weeks. 23, sorry. Yeah. He's in 10. He's in 10. Almost up to Jack Bauer episodes. Jack Bauer.
01:00:32
Speaker
My option for Halloween movies is the Harry and Meghan, the true story. Well, no, you don't spoil it. You have to wait till the Halloween episode.
01:00:40
Speaker
Thank you, Steve, for all your wonderful editing efforts that's going to be required this week. Yeah, this is the shortest episode we've ever recorded, this one. I'm going to run it down to 25 minutes. 25 minutes. Just tell me the stuff in the middle. But honestly, this character is definitely Darth Vader. I want you to edit that bit where he talked about Anakin and just don't have Anakin just have Hitler on the end of it.
01:01:10
Speaker
No, just skip it over and just like add your voice in where you said Alex and Hamilton. Agent on it. The fact that we didn't say a Hamilton character does feel like, you know, a mistake. It's history. I just got this. Burr definitely had a character arc. All right, done. And yeah, then we'll call it there for this evening. Thank you very much for all the laughs and fun times, everybody. Hope you have a good week.