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Star Trek: Voyager - "Caretaker" 30th Anniversary reissue
68 Plays10 hours ago
MINOR BIPEDAL SPECIES? Captain Kathryn Janeway has a problem: in order to save a childlike race of people called the Ocampa, she must strand her ship and crew 70,000 light years from their home quadrant of space, or else risk the Ocampas' future as slaves to the evil Kazon. What is a Starfleet captain to do?
This week, Bryan and Kristen grapple with Captain Janeway's decision and a lot of the behind the scenes decision that went into creating Star Trek: Voyager along with "Caretaker," its pilot, specifically. Will this episode fit comfortably into any of our three labels: Trek, Marry, or Kill?
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Transcript
30th Anniversary Reflections on Star Trek Voyager
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey, it's 2025, which is somehow the 30th anniversary of the premiere of Star Trek Voyager. It's blowing my mind, but here we are and we're doing a little wrap around or a little ah intro to the fifth episode of Trek Mary Kill ever that we did, which was for the pilot of Star Trek Voyager, Caretaker, which again is now 30 years old. Kristen, looking back on Star Trek Voyager, how does that show sit in your mind?
Personal Takes on Voyager's Place in Star Trek
00:00:28
Speaker
About the same, Brian. um Not my favorite Star Trek. Not my least favorite. Do you remember anything about the pilot, even our record of it? I remember... that the best I think the best line in the whole episode comes from Cork. The slurs against my people at Starfleet Academy. It was for our show. It did set the course of recognizing that, yes, humans are very prejudiced against all the other aliens. Yeah.
00:01:02
Speaker
In particular, the Ferengi. That's right. That's right. But ah ah for me, Voyager, 30 years on where it sits, I'm with you. It's not my favorite. It's not my least favorite. ah My mind has changed over the years in terms of like, I so they refuse to watch it. It's kind of trickled into being in the background for me.
00:01:22
Speaker
which is a surprise, I think. was like but ah and my The last time I was sick, I actually was able to get through their episodes of season seven, which coincided with me graduating from college, that I had never seen before. so It was like this weird surprise of like, oh, there's 90s early 2000s Trek I'd never seen. and There are some whoppers in that season seven, including an episode where Belana Torres learns that she's pregnant, and because she realizes it's going to be half Klingon,
00:01:52
Speaker
uh, basically has a panic attack, remembering how her father ran out on her and her Klingon mother. She's deadbeat. Yeah. And so she proceeds to reprogram the doctor so that he will genetically delete the Klingon DNA.
00:02:11
Speaker
It's okay. But that storyline, why not just get an abortion?
Character Moments and Storylines in Voyager
00:02:17
Speaker
Well, she wanted to have a kid still. Okay, well, not really, not that kid. Not that kid. And because you't know she had Star Trek technology at any disposal, she decided to make some modifications. But ah who would have thought, I would have thought, watching Caretaker, that we would get that far along seven years on over the course of this show, which I still maintain to this day, had it been the Starship Enterprise under Captain Jean-Luc Picard would not have been stranded in the Delta Quad. No, no, absolutely not. we We talked about that at length on our episode, actually. That's right. and But as I recall, I killed this episode. I feel like I convinced you. often No, no, no. I listened to it right before we got on the air here, Brian. I killed it. You gave it a soft track and then we put it to a
Mixed Reception and Popularity of 'Caretaker' and Voyager
00:03:11
Speaker
poll. I don't know what happened them with the poll. So the poll is that the listeners put it as a track.
00:03:16
Speaker
Okay. Well, our very first, so it was already controversy five episodes in. hu But you can listen to it now, and 30 years later, all of your memories, maybe you're new to Voyager, it was the most popular Star Trek show on Netflix before Star Trek left Netflix. It might be then one of the more popular shows on Paramount+. There's a whole channel of it on Pluto TV.
00:03:41
Speaker
So, you know, it could still be people's favorite Star Trek. Would you like to know what is routinely the most streamed non-Netflix show?
00:03:52
Speaker
The most streamed non-Netflix Yeah. House of the Dragon also plays on HBO, so I don't think they consider it a streaming-only show. Well, doesn't Days of Our Lives play on NBC? It does not. It's a Peacock exclusive now, Brian, which is why I don't watch it every day anymore.
00:04:22
Speaker
Holy cow. These just turn on. Yeah, I know. There's no soap opera on at one o'clock right now, which I'm told will change in February when they have a new soap opera on CBS debuting. so What's wild to me is that daytime TV has not disappeared. It has simply transitioned to either streaming, but actually more like Instagram reels and TikTok. Yeah, I mean, I don't like that it's streaming only, but apparently it does quite well.
Shifts in TV Viewing Habits: From Daytime to Streaming
00:04:52
Speaker
on streaming. So. All right. Well, that's our tangent that you get in every episode of Trek Mary Kill. Except I feel like the listening to this one gets you off course. You got a real episode where I'm going to be joined by Cherise, the sci-fi savage, for the rest of this month to go over some select episodes from Star Trek Voyager's first season. So look forward to that. It's going to the next one of which is going to drop tomorrow. I do. I do have final thoughts about Voyager. Yes. I appreciate it now more for what it is, which is Two competent people dealing with a ship full of idiots. And if you come at it from that point of view, it's more enjoyable for me because I don't expect anything of most of the people. And if they exceed my expectations, I'm like, oh, look, look, look at Tom Paris doing something useful.
Upcoming Podcast Plans and Guest Announcements
00:05:43
Speaker
I also think Garrett Wong got a bit of a bad beat because in the first season he was like a gung-ho, ah not just the 8 character of Harry Kim, but the actor seemed like really into it. And I think a combination of the writers feeling like they had a ceiling with the character and perhaps, perhaps the actor being kind of obnoxious towards them. He did not wind up getting the material that in season one suggested he might be able to handle and then as ah over the course of the series because he didn't grow as a character and as an actor he got pigeonholed and now he is where he's at. um I can't believe Robert Beltran after all these years
00:06:20
Speaker
So again, going back to season seven, I'm like, oh, they did have chemistry. And then in Star Trek Prodigy, when their animated characters are on screen together, it's like, how is the chemistry still existing between these black rooms of real people? And again, Robert Beltran has not like gone off and done other things. ah Yes, but to your point, Janeway, the Janeway 2 box show, the only two competent people running the ship.
00:06:46
Speaker
yeah but yeah i mean like Seven and nine is competent, but she's like She's missing other parts of her of her personality that would make her like, you know a stellar officer at the time.
00:07:02
Speaker
Right. And also, this when once it becomes a Seven of Nine show, it's basically like she barely tolerates the rest of the ship. Yeah. But she needs the rest of the ship. where yeah Anyway, so that's that. 30 years on, enjoy Caretaker, and we'll be back tomorrow, starting off with a whole new slew of Voyager episodes for us to grade this week on Trek
The Launch of UPN and Voyager's Role
00:07:24
Speaker
Mary Kill. Janeway, McKee, Banjo.
00:07:29
Speaker
Next. It began as a routine mission. There appears to be a massive displacement wave moving toward us, and it would change their destiny. Captain, is something out there? Race for impact. One crew and one ship's epic journey 70,000 light years away. We're on the other side of the galaxy. Now it's a quest to get back home. Why are you holding us here? See it from the beginning. We have no way back unless you send us. On the premiere of Star Trek Voyager.
00:08:01
Speaker
track Mary Kill
00:08:08
Speaker
Welcome to Trek Merry Kill, where we watch and judge episodes of Star Trek. This week, we're looking at Star Trek Voyager's two-hour premiere, Caretaker, which was the very first show to air on UPN, the United Paramount Network, RIP. RIP. Air date January 16th, 1995. Teleplay by Michael Pillar and Jerry Taylor. Story by Rick Berman and Michael Pillar and Jerry Taylor. Directed by Winrich Colby.
00:08:38
Speaker
Maybe it's when Rick cold. Anyway, he directed the series finale most famously of the next generation, all good things. Um, so after about 20 years, Paramount finally is able to launch a TV network with Star Trek as their flagship series, the sixth broadcast network, Kristen UPN. Do you remember this? Yes, of course. Of course.
00:09:02
Speaker
you know Paramount was trying to get Star Trek Phase 2 to launch their Paramount Network back in the 70s. That didn't happen. Next Generation was sort of bandied about as maybe being another entry into the market as a network. Didn't happen. And then, UPN.
00:09:18
Speaker
Yeah. at the same Launch at the same time as the WB. Kids, you may not know this, but the CW is actually kind of emerging. Yeah, it's the child. It is emerging. yeah Yeah. UPN and the WB. And so Star Trek Voyager's premiere was UPN launch. ah so Other shows that launched with the Voyager was stuff like Platypus Man.
00:09:45
Speaker
so Wait, is UPM the one that had, didn't like Brandy have her own show? Yes, Moesha. Moesha was on Moesha. I don't know why I blanked on the name of that show. No problem. Nowhere, man, I think was on that network, too, which had a cool like trailer music, which was kind of interesting. And then also Michael Pillar, who we talked about recently when we did our Deep Space Nine episode, sort of an unheralded, you know, he passed away. So, you know, he hasn't continued to get credit throughout the years and you know do self promotion.
00:10:21
Speaker
But he's mainly responsible for Next Generation being such a big hit. He helped launch Deep Space Nine successfully. And when he got Voyager off the ground and it did well, they were like, do another show.
Star Trek's Impact on TV Networks and Casting
00:10:32
Speaker
So he did a show with Richard Dean Anderson called Legend. And the co-star of that show was John Delancey. Oh.
00:10:40
Speaker
And I'm sure no one remembers that show outside of basically me and other nerdy Star Trek fans. So you're a normal Star Trek fan. So any memory fond memories of UPN or the WB?
00:10:56
Speaker
Um, yeah, well, they had a lot of programming that was kind of geared towards my age range. So, um, while I don't think I was like an appointment viewer of any of the programming, I think that there was a lot of programming for people like me. Dawson's Creek was on the WB. Yeah.
00:11:16
Speaker
ah My recollection is that they both sort of launched with something big that had some sort of ah pedigree. and this In UPN's case, it was Star Trek. And then CW, I can't remember what it was. And then everything else was like rejected stuff from other development seasons.
00:11:35
Speaker
Yeah, like the third round. Yeah, exactly. Or like, you know, creators who had had hits, but sort of ah a generation previous, sort of being carted out, dusting off ideas, or just the CW most famous, or the WB most famously had sort of like a married with children ripoff from the married with children people. They just reinvented married with children. It wasn't top of the heap, which was a legitimate spinoff of married with children. and I cannot remember the name of it right now, but it had a puppet. Like he talks when he'd fight with his wife, he'd like go downstairs and talk to a ah ah puppet voiced, I believe, by Bobcat Goldwaite. And I can't for the life of me think of the name of the show. Oh, well. um So Dawson's Creek did come out in January 1998, 98. So three years later, it was not there. Yeah, I was way later. So I can't tell you.
00:12:33
Speaker
I was all charmed was on it ah charmed but not not also not until 1998 so someone is listening right now going they know exactly what show it it was and we're not saying it and I apologize but I'm looking up now but you can try to be hip and then the WB tried to just be like Show business, remember Michigan Jay Frog was their mascot? They literally had an animated... They literally had their animated Michigan Jay Frog from Looney Dunes do interstitials, like bumpers during commercial breaks. And it would also be to like, here's the show that's about to come on. So he'd be like introducing the show. So apparently the WB launched mostly with sitcoms and also Pinky and the Brain.
00:13:23
Speaker
They prime time pinky in the brain. OK, they did. They did. And um they had the prime time soap opera Savannah, which you know what? I miss that one. Does not have its own Wikipedia page ringing a bell but ringing a bell. OK. So that's the context for it. And Star Trek by this point, I mean, this is 1995 next generation launched in 87. So we're now eight years into this basically next generation era. Deep Space Nine had launched two years earlier.
00:13:54
Speaker
Deep Space Nine had basically been considered a flop by the studio, so they really wanted a new direction for the- A very successful flop by today's decision. Absolutely. I have no recollection of this particular episode. Zero. Oh, wow. Wow, okay. I would think I would remember the farm scenes at the very least, because it's kind of out of place for a Star Trek show.
00:14:20
Speaker
First woman captain, we didn't mention this, Deep Space 9-1, the first black captain, like we never specifically say that, which I think is just because we just left. Yeah, we're at that point in three, two captains, really.
00:14:35
Speaker
Yeah, but I mean, like the the the thing, the hook, I guess, of why Cisco was important, quote unquote, to start with, Star Trek's first Black captain. He wasn't even like the captain to start the show. We didn't even get into that because I think all of us, just like Cisco, he's maybe our favorite captain. So we just jumped right to that. um and then But with Janeway, that was the big selling point, like the first woman captain and then the first show on UPN.
00:15:02
Speaker
And i so I remember all that. I think I remember not having maybe it's just being ah a kid and having girls.
Programming Differences and Nostalgia for UPN & WB
00:15:11
Speaker
Yuck. But I don't remember. I remember like, oh, it's coming out. And because it's Star Trek, just the brand awareness being like, cool, a new Star Trek show. That's great. And having no other emotions or attachment to that. Also, this is definitely by the time where I'm now a teenager. So I had other things on my mind in addition to Star Trek.
00:15:31
Speaker
So it gets a little wonky. I do remember watching and I do remember watching the pilot a lot, re-watching it, taping it, re-watching it. ah The one thing that I remember is that the visual visual effects were great. hu Like essentially the best version of Star Trek that that could be up to that point. um Yeah, but ah beyond that, like the launch of a new network, that was not something that happened all the time. I mean, people now are just used to streamers, you know, Yahoo had freaking their own programming for a while. So like new platforms launching pretty common, but a new network. I think that was part of the excitement. And to me, you can get over the air, like, yes, over back in the olden days, he you could just turn on your TV if you had like a little antenna and you can get the local channels and you didn't have to pay for it.
00:16:21
Speaker
Yeah, and no, this is you can actually still do this. ah you yeah Yeah, you do need a little bit fit more fancy equipment, but you actually do not need to pay for it if you have a regular TV. that like e equipmentment just being wrap Like your computer, you can actually do this, although it depends, like you may not get a very good signal depending on where you are.
00:16:41
Speaker
Right. But when you do get a good signal, because it's just over the air, it's like not compressed at all. So you're actually getting in some cases, well, now it's different with 4k TVs. Nothing's yeah broadcasting in 4k. So it doesn't matter. But now at the peak of 10 80, you know, you could get the best version but better than cable. If you could get a clear antenna signal.
00:17:02
Speaker
Yeah, I will tell you that um I know for a fact that ABC still only broadcasts in 720. Oh, yeah. I mean, sports are still you can tell in a lot of cases are 10 ADI, you know. so Yeah, there's still a lot of down conversion. ah That that's the um old people talk corner everyone. Yeah.
00:17:24
Speaker
um But I do remember um it was cool cool that there was a female captain. I remember like taking note of that. What I did write down is that I didn't remember the the opening credits being that boring.
00:17:39
Speaker
Oh, this is hot take. Maybe we need to have like a section for give us your hot take on this episode. i feel like like the like Yeah, I don't know why I don't like when I was watching it this time. Like I maybe I was impressed by this when I was younger, but now it seems kind of boring, but that just might be.
00:18:03
Speaker
I don't know, I i was very bored and it looked it looked cheap too, like compared to everything else that we see these days. Face of the art at the time, beautiful. Yes, at the time, of course. Generally considered to be the most, like if for nothing, not nothing else about that show, people have, even people who hate the show say, oh, but the opening credits, the title sequence, the music's beautiful, it's great. And here comes Kristin going, no.
00:18:32
Speaker
That's not it. Like I just think that because it's has it's in standard def now like it hasn't been remastered or anything it looks like bad compared to even like the redone stuff for like the original series and stuff like it's just kind of and it was I think I was probably impressed by it at the time, because I remember being impressed by the Deep Space Nine opening when I was
Analyzing 'Caretaker' - Visuals, Storytelling, and Critique
00:18:56
Speaker
a kid. So I feel like, obviously, I would have been impressed by this, but ah as ah on this viewing, I was bored.
00:19:04
Speaker
that speaks to sort of your general thoughts on Voyager. Maybe, I don't want to put words in your mouth. For me though, yes, this show is very stuck in the 90s. And it's sort of very much stuck in the peak of that next generation era. And it it remixed, this is a i'm not this is not an original thought, but you know, Voyager is effectively a remix of next generation of these nine.
00:19:31
Speaker
It's taking story concepts, ideas, proper nouns, you know alien races, and just kind of mixing it up and jumbling it up and then laying it out there and saying, Star Trek. Well, it's like, we got Vulcan, we got a half Klingon. That's right. Instead of a half Vulcan, half human, half Klingon, half human. Yeah.
00:19:55
Speaker
We got a lady captain. That's like the only real. Right. And it's not an out. It's not an outside in character. That's the half, the half and half. It's our hologram. Who's our data? You know, it's yeah kind of these things. um And at the time, this is my now general recollection of the show. At the time, it it felt stale.
00:20:17
Speaker
And I'm saying that someone who's like got into Star Trek with the next generation, you know, diligently rewatch these episodes was a huge fan. Deep Space Nine, you know, got, you know, watched all those. And that by the time Voyager came around, it just was like it only really stuck out as more new Star Trek. Now Star Trek goes on twice a week.
00:20:39
Speaker
You know, and you could kind of bounce back and forth. Maybe there was a good Voyager, but a bad Deep Space Nine or vice versa. And that was sort of the only real thing to me that kept me watching it. But, you know, even as time has gone on, it's not like it's grown in fondness. But this is important to remember that this was the number one Star Trek show on Netflix before the licensing deal expired. And it like so this is the one that people connect with. ah I want to make it very clear right up front, whatever teenage Brian thought about, oh, girls, whatever, but a girl captain, whatever. Not the case. You know, Janeway was not my problem watching the show.
00:21:17
Speaker
No, no. Kate Mulgrew is not my problem watching the show. And I didn't know Kate Mulgrew. I didn't know Mrs. Columbo, all that stuff and all that. But I'm going to give you the floor here in a second. Was she Mrs. Columbo? She was Mrs. Columbo. That was sort of like one of her big TV roles, I think, before that. But again, we don't know Kate. Kate Mulgrew is not of our TV watching generation. You know what I mean? That's 70s, 80s term. I feel like we're more like 80s, 90s term.
00:21:46
Speaker
I don't understand what you're talking about. the The TV, sorry. I lost the plot. The pop culture TV ephemera is sort of like the 70s, 80s was, you know, we weren't born yet. So like for us, it's like the 80s into the 90s. That's where we're. So you're saying like. She was like the 70s. Like we would not have been like, oh, my goodness, look at that. It's Mrs. Colombo. Exactly. Also, same with Avery Brooks. Like we didn't watch Spencer for hire or a man called. I think other than like LeVar Burton.
00:22:18
Speaker
I feel like almost all of the care everyone who was on any Star Trek show for the most part is like kind of not super well known to the audience or to me to me anyway specifically.
00:22:31
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's a great point. ah The weird part is, you know, Next Generation, you mentioned LeVar Burton. You know, Jonathan Frakes had been in, I think, a Civil War North and South miniseries. You know, like, Will Wheaton was like the most famous cast member, actually, outside of LeVar Burton, because he was in Stand By Me.
00:22:52
Speaker
Oh, yeah, I mean I don't know the kid I'm just saying, I'm just saying then Deep Space Nine had basically Avery Brooks but like no not visitor I think she's on soap operas Rene abortion why had been, I think he was in a ah Brian De Palma movie and he'd been around.
00:23:07
Speaker
I mean, Armin Shimmerman, those are i was watching a lot of Brian De Palma movies when I was younger. Exactly. I'm saying like, it's interesting to look at those cat look at the cast and then stack them up and go, Okay, so you've got next generation, and then you've got deep space nine next generation sort of was like a happy accident of ah talent. just i had Some like really actual veteran, like people have been doing putting in the work doing the reps. And I don't know what I don't know what happened with Voyager.
00:23:35
Speaker
Yeah, you know, it's there's so many forgettable people on this show. Yeah. For a second, I was like, oh, my gosh, the guy who plays Tom Paris looks so much like Jorah Mormont from Game of Thrones. And I'm like, but I can't possibly be him and it isn't. No. But I was like, no, he couldn't have been doing this before. No, we would have no we would have heard about it. it's yeah Like I would have heard about this.
00:24:01
Speaker
ah So we're coming up on the three year anniversary of a tweet I made, which was kind of strongly when I saw the news that Voyager was the most you know popular Star Trek show on Netflix was sort of like, I think there are only 20 good episodes of Voyager out of 173 or 176. And of course, you ought to take it upon yourself.
00:24:21
Speaker
Dude, I'm gonna label them all, yes. So now I'm doing a show based on, I'm not general concept, but Caretaker at that time that I wrote this, that was on my list of obvious season one episodes of being good. Yeah, spoiler, I clicked through to see what you said about it. um Wow. and and i And now rewatching it it, it's weird how all the things that bothered me about the show after seven year or through seven seasons exist here.
00:24:50
Speaker
And for whatever reason, I think the fondness of Caretaker that I had, or what I had for Caretaker was simply born of the fact like, well, it wasn't bad. And, you know, it's setting up a show that seems interesting.
00:25:03
Speaker
yeah And yet the same sort of um inert, not inertia, the same, there's an inert quality to it. there's kind of um This is me talking now specifically about the episode. Was there anything about Voyager that you wanted to get in here at the last second? In general, um I find it inoffensive. I think that when I talked about this, I don't know which episode, I forget now, that at well one point,
00:25:32
Speaker
Maybe it was our introduction episode where I said like I just kind of put on a episode of Voyager not that long ago and You know, it's it's an offensive for the most part. There are things about it that bother me One of them is the crew's instant and undying loyalty blind loyalty to Captain Janeway now does she deserve it probably but it's like immediate and it's Undying unquestioning loyalty And after watching this episode, I'm like, Jesus, why? But yeah, in general, like I'll say it's not my favorite, but it's not like offensive in any way. Like if you it's kind of like a daytime television thing where like I can have it on in the background and I'll be perfectly content if I'm also doing something else.
00:26:15
Speaker
Yeah, I think I'm at that point with it now too. There's a time where I'm just like, I'm not gonna bother to rewatch that. It's still Star Trek. Yeah, exactly. That's why why we're doing the show. That's why we're doing this at all. Yes. And I think to me at the end of the day, I'm just sort of like, ah, it's a little disappointing that this is some people's,
Balancing Voyager's Appeal and Shortcomings
00:26:32
Speaker
not favorite. I don't and mind that it's someone's favorite, but just knowing that like this could just be someone's entry in the Star Trek. it's I'm gonna give a really snooty elitist way of doing it. It's probably,
00:26:45
Speaker
It's kind of like watching The Simpsons and seeing all the Citizen Kane references and then going back and watch Citizen Kane for the first time. No, I don't think it's that. well because there's i think citizen kane is like
00:27:00
Speaker
ah Number one, it's like way overhyped and also la but all the cliches, all the cliches started with like Casablanca and Citizen Kane. Like if you go back and watch those after like saying living like 40 years on earth and seeing all the pop cultural references to them and like all the cliches that came from those films, and then you went back and watch it, you'd be like, that's cli this is a cliche film, I don't like it. That's what I'm saying.
00:27:25
Speaker
No, I don't think so. I thought you're saying that, like, if you're... I'm saying it's a bit of a bummer that this is some people's first exposure to Star Trek, so that if it did compel them to go in the back... Well, I think specifically for Sis and Kane... Okay, let's do it for Casablanca. Casablanca is, in my opinion, objectively a good film. I agree with you. And it's like a great screenplay. So, like, let's use that. So, yeah, if you had no idea...
00:27:51
Speaker
about that movie and had seen like all these jokes about it your whole life and went back and saw it, you'd be like, oh, this is not good. So yeah, okay, I agree with you there. Maybe just not on the specific ah example. Example I used? Well, what I guess what I'm saying is, even in the Citizen King case, even in the Casablanca case, I think I'm pretty sure that I was first exposed to all the jokes and cliches born from those pictures so that when I went back and watched them, it did influence it. and But for me, both of them are great in different ways. And um it the movies were good enough to help me rise above it. You know what I mean? Or like to elevate it beyond that stuff. What I'm saying is like, I know that's not the case for everybody. And it's not because I'm like better at watching stuff. you just know You just know that it's going to influence it in any way. Anyway.
00:28:39
Speaker
I'm always saying that because there is this tiredness now rewatching it that I felt. And I kind of it made me think of it in terms of like, ah it's a starting pitcher going, you know, third time through the order. This is a baseball thing. You know, the more pitches he throws, the tired more tired he gets, right? He's more prone to making mistakes.
00:28:58
Speaker
the the hitters have seen him a little bit more he could still get through the game probably but he's just not gonna look as sharp it's not he's just tired and michael pillar basically writing his second pilot but ah also important to remember so he's done the third season of next gen fourth fifth sixth seventh third fourth fifth sixth seventh five seasons there he's done one two three of deep space nine so he's done eight seasons of television heading into voyager doing you know what i mean like so he's written a lot of star trek you know he's not writing every episode but he's the showrunner so he's going through all these you know discarding stories you know
00:29:35
Speaker
directions they don't go and so it just does feel like a lot of stuff that oh you've already done this before and you forgot or you've already done this before but you're reusing it because you think it'd be and like literally the tom parris character was a character they did before but they didn't want to pay the extra like 600 bucks an episode it would cost to give the to pay the writer who came up with the character do you remember the next generation the first duty I don't think so. Okay, so the first duty sticks out in my mind because I don't remember any episode numbers is the problem or any episode names so like if you told me what happened, I'd probably have seen it. I'm about to it's but I wanted to set up like it's the episode where Wesley crushes at the Academy, and there's an accident with his pilot friends, and someone dies, and he has to learn how to tell the truth.
00:30:21
Speaker
And ah Tom Paris, or the Robert Duncan duncan McNeil, the actor, is playing this guy, Nicola Carnot. And he's like the swaggery you know leader of the group. But he's also bullying them in a line to protect the secret that they accidentally got one of their teammates killed. And then Picard has to like lecture Wesley Crusher to tell the truth and all that stuff. So that character, Nicola Carnot, the way that Robert Duncan McNeil, the actor, portrayed him, stuck with the producers And they, when they had time to, who are we going to put on the show? It was a little bit like Deep Space Nine. Oh, we'll put Ensign Ro on Deep Space Nine. You know what I mean? But in this case, no yeah, but then Michelle Forbes is just so cool. She's like, I'm not doing that. And in that in that case, it worked out in this case, they were just like, well, we don't want to pay the guy who wrote that episode.
00:31:12
Speaker
um like literally this is what rick burman said we just didnt want to pay the character fee to somebody to do he's a producer so he's like i'll save 600 bucks an episode what 600 times 26 yeah that's basically whatever that was 600 times 26 i'm really bad at math folks but that's how much they were saving per season by not calling tom parris nickel carno which is what that was supposed to be But anyway, but that's why I'm saying it's like literally they were just taking their own ideas and just recycling them. And I think the show really suffers for it in general, but in this episode specifically, it it shows how kind of half thought out everything is because none of the characters choices really drive the story. It's not really about any of them.
00:32:00
Speaker
the The planet stuff sucks. They'll compost stuff. Yeah, it just sucks. Like I'm not. It doesn't tell us anything about Harry Kim and and Bologna Torres. Yeah, like I want to like those people, but like give me a reason. Yeah, this is in the first episode. I mean, like, yeah, I think do you think it's also possibly possible that because we're watching For every episode so far, we've been watching two hour episodes. Do you think like that is color? Do you think that like, I think it was so hard for me to get through this episode because it is so long.
00:32:34
Speaker
And I feel like that is definitely coloring my feelings about it. No, like I'll be so happy when we're done with all the two hour pilots. So happy. I will. To me, it felt long, but maybe you still felt the same way about Deep Space Nine because for now. OK, so like when we did encounter at Far Point, which I think will come out before this episode comes out. Yeah.
00:32:59
Speaker
I had to watch in two separate, separate sittings because I couldn't take it. And then the Deep Space Nine, I was, we were, watching I was watching it and I'm like, oh God, I bet, like I was enjoying it, but I was like, oh boy, I bet this is, I bet I have like 45 minutes left and I paused it and actually I had like 10 minutes left. And I was like, oh, look at that. That just breathes right through. And, but this episode,
00:33:26
Speaker
I paused it at one point, like when they're doing kind of the heist thing at the end, um like rescuing their people at the end. Sorry, spoilers. um We haven't gotten into that yet, but- You haven't even done in the synopsis yet. Yeah. yeah i Sorry. or how We're half an hour in. Let's just get right to it.
00:33:51
Speaker
so And then I pause it, I'm like, oh, I can't possibly have more than like 10, 15 minutes left. I paused and I had still half an hour left. I'm like, Jesus Christ, what can they possibly have to do after this? This is the end. Like, what else comes after this? Like, and um a lot, unfortunately.
Voyager's Narrative Decisions and Their Consequences
00:34:09
Speaker
Yeah, okay. that yeah Let's dive right in. The USS Voyager is on a mission to find this missing Maquis ship, which has the chief of security of the Voyager on board. It was lost in this area called the Badlands with these plasma storms. Voyager goes and investigates. ah But first they have to pick up a prisoner, Tom Paris, because he knows the area well.
00:34:33
Speaker
And so they go, and then they get swept up in this weird energy field that's been basically camping out and picking off ships in the Badlands, I guess. And it flings them across across the ah galaxy, basically. They're 70,000 light years away, and they're in the Delta Quadrant. When they arrive, they're kidnapped and experimented on.
00:34:53
Speaker
because this alien being called the Caretaker is looking for basically a way to reproduce to continue its self-imposed mission of caring for this race of people called the Okampa because thousands of years ago... This planet, they he destroyed.
00:35:10
Speaker
destroyed. Sorry. in No, it's fine. And i forgot this is your time. Yeah. no please champion him yeah and I'm doing off the top of my head. And then, you know, voyagers got to figure out what's going on. They meet this scavenger named Neelix who tries to help them out. Neelix uses Voyager to get his girlfriend back his two year old girlfriend back important to point out.
00:35:32
Speaker
You know, clampa only lived nine years. That's a that's the wrinkle there. And, um and anyway, sort what the age of consent is. Yeah, exactly. No, like, like six nineteen months. yes So the so Voyager, you know,
00:35:48
Speaker
figures out that this caretaker is dying, that's why it's looking for an offspring, and um realizes, the caretaker realizes they're not going to be able to complete their mission, so gives the Okampa enough energy because they've been living underground, being supplied by energy distantly by this caretaker array, and ah hopefully in five years, you know, the Okampa will either figure it out or all die off, I guess.
00:36:12
Speaker
Yeah. and And Voyager decides, well, we can't let this array, the station, remain because then the bad guys um who are also scavengers, the Kazon, will take it and use it to obliterate or enslave the Okampa. So we've got to destroy it, which means stranding ourselves here. And then that sets up the show. of We're going to figure out a way to get home somehow, 70,000 light years from home.
00:36:37
Speaker
We're going to ally ourselves with these Maquis people we picked up along the way. o That's exhausting. Yeah. the The premise was supposed to be Voyager is basically lost in space and it's not going to be just a star Starfleet crew. It's going to be this group of ah freedom fighters named the Maquis. I have to do this before we go into it because Michael Pillar aped his own pilot by doing a a crawl.
00:37:01
Speaker
with the with Deep Space Nine, but this one was not interesting at all. now like It's talking about the Maquis. Who are the Maquis? They're freedom fighters. Why do I care about these people? They're freedom fighters who are mad that the Cardassians got their land in ah in a settlement, a treaty. The Cardassians and the Federation signed a treaty, and so some people got kind of knocked out of their homes.
00:37:23
Speaker
but by the re-bordering and so they became freedom fighters and the fe Federation calls them traitors and the Cardassians call them terrorists and this was something introduced I think in next generation carried over in a Deep Space Nine and they thought it was so interesting that they decided to use it for Voyager. Huge mistake. Nobody cares. Nobody cares about about these people.
00:37:47
Speaker
Yeah, the show doesn't even care. It ditches the whole thing. I mean, the idea that we need to shake it up and have a different part of the crew to have ah onboard conflict, that's a decent instinct, I think. Yeah, but then there there's no conflict. There's hardly any.
00:38:02
Speaker
No, Chakotay, we didn't mention any of the characters. You got your Janeway there, you got your Kate Mulgrew, you got your Chakotay, who's Native American, which the big story behind that was the Native American consultant they had was a complete con artist and gave the Star Trek writers completely bogus information about Native customs.
00:38:24
Speaker
Oh, no. And, um, you got your belong. to friendss You've got your Harry Kim, who's on his first mission. Tom Paris, the criminal who's trying to make amends. Um, we get a lot of references to his dad for some reason.
00:38:39
Speaker
Like everything, yeah, we get a lot of information about characters that has nothing to do with what they're doing. It's just them stopping what they're doing. It's a lot of telling not showing. Yeah. Um, anyway, so I don't know if they had been something else, ah pirates of some kind, maybe that would have been better, but that that's not what happened here. All right. Great scenes. I've managed to find some, but I want you to go first. Okay. Well.
00:39:08
Speaker
In the beginning, Janeway, in her full uniform, in her her bun, shows up to New Zealand, which is a penal kyle colony. and i I was just happy to see that New Zealand and Australia are still penal colonies in the future. The more things change. Yeah. ah ah I put Voyager arrives in the Delta Quadrant. I think that it's, well,
00:39:36
Speaker
paste directed well and the whole they get swept up in the energy beam and flung across the galaxy and then they are trying to figure out what's going on and sort of the chaos of all that and then they start getting beamed away uh i thought it was pretty cool i thought the actors reactions i thought the act the actors reactions to the array that we get on screen was so good that it really stinks that the design of the array was so dumb There's nothing really to it that was interesting or haunting or weird, but they really sold that we should have thought that. so um And i just I think I just like the chaos of it all because you've watched enough Star Trek, it's kind of like, okay, now this is like really serious. and And usually if it's not the Enterprise, if something like this happens to a non-Enterprise ship, the the ship just explodes and they all die.
00:40:29
Speaker
So here's, here's them like trying to stay alive. I like that. I liked, I guess the dangerous escapes from the underground layer of the, and now I can't remember their names, the, yo comppa the Ocampa. I'm so sorry. um My apologies all you to all of the Ocampa and their people. I do like a dangerous escape. Now, did we need one that elaborate? I don't know.
00:40:55
Speaker
You mean with like the staircase and all that? The staircases, you know, the staircase, the shoots and ladders situation that we had going on there. I was groaning because it's like, oh, this is just kind of a redo of of um generations. And also, also, I'm pretty sure this happens in um second chances. It happens in the next generation episode, too. Anyway, sorry. Anyway, though oh also, I forgot to mention.
00:41:22
Speaker
This pilot took 31 days to shoot and cost $23 million. dollars Oh, my God. $23 million dollars would be considered a very expensive pilot today. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, well, the special effects, but those staircases aren't free.
00:41:42
Speaker
no
00:41:44
Speaker
They had to build all those staircases. That's right. Like, can we get some more caves and can we get some more staircases? I had the introduction of The Doctor. Mm hmm. I thought that was a good scene, half of the scene. Yeah, I like Neelix hugs Tuvok and makes Tuvok very uncomfortable when he's beamed aboard. Yeah, that's a good moment. I like the scene in the bathtub. Yeah. Where he's doing the weird alien song.
00:42:14
Speaker
and then like luxuriating in water. I liked the first scene with the banjo man, the caretaker. where he calls them a minor bipedal species. Yeah. Talked about a death that can never be repaid. Because then I was like, now we're getting into some fucking Star Trek. Yes, the gods are are they hate little people. ah Last one I had was Janeway and Tuvok's scene after. Man, I'm sighing because I'm like, why did she out him? Why did she blow his cover? Yeah, so quickly. Like, and then everyone was fine with it.
00:42:51
Speaker
And Chakotay was so quick to stay down. Yeah, exactly. Everyone is so quick to be like, oh, yes. Yeah. OK, this is all fine. I was deceived for months, but I'm fine with it now. And our lives are in danger. I'm fine. Yeah, but then the next scene is Tuvok, when he's in his uniform, the first scene he's in his uniform. And it's just he and Janeway. And they're talking about the nucleogenic particles and the planet, which is the Ocampus planet.
00:43:18
Speaker
I just thought the acting was really good in that scene, even though Tim Russ, I think is, yeah, is his name. He's doing like a bit. It's like his Vulcan is more of a bit than like a performance, but it's fine. yeah But she's doing, she's carrying that scene. She's got the emotional weight of that whole scene. She's talking about Harry Kim's mom having messaged her before they left, if if he forgot his clarinet or whatever. and And I thought it was great. I thought it was a nice scene between the two of them. um So anyway, those were my great scenes.
00:43:47
Speaker
Like did you know he played the clarinet like how how the fuck would you know? How would you know that he doesn't know like right because it's like like literally you guys this is the you know him for like what 48 hours maybe yeah i know you're undercover but here's the crew roster yeah it's over did you have time to look over the fact that he plays the clarinet like how would he know that All right, best trek tropes. I already mentioned it. Gods, you know. Yeah, I have that one under worst. I actually don't think it works super well in this one. I think it gets too cliche after watching it all from the other pilots. But and there must be a best one. So I put that. um
00:44:28
Speaker
ah Just too fuck reminding everyone he's a Vulcan all the time, like saying the Vulcans do not worry. And then of course, Volana Torres reminding everyone she's half Klingon. And sometimes i get sometimes that gets the better of her, which doesn't make any sense. But she says like that half of her is what causes like these outbursts.
00:44:50
Speaker
I know. I'm saving that for it's most of its time quality. I have a lot about that. i you You didn't like it, but best trek tropes, I think getting Jerry Goldsmith to do your theme. It was a winner for Star Trek The Motion Picture. I didn't hate the actual music. I just felt it was kind of like...
00:45:10
Speaker
them just go on by planets and stuff and kind of. Oh, the visuals. I got it. Okay. Yeah. Again, I think the the music is fine. Yeah, the music is fine. So the theme is, is the trope. and it's not Is it less, is it less of a hot take now that I specify? No, it's no, you're still a hot take. It's okay. Okay.
00:45:28
Speaker
And then for me, the best truck trope, I don't know, you might disagree, are the women's wigs, because i go it took me back to the original series where women would just have impossible hair sometimes because of the wi the wig work. and yeah And for the first time, I think it was because of the 4K TV, I finally noticed the wig lines for Kate Mulgrew.
00:45:48
Speaker
I didn't even notice it. It's like you can see him on our temples very clearly. And it's not a bad thing. I'm just saying like in Kessiles really. Why would they bother putting it in a wig that seems like it took would take longer? It's such a simple hairstyle. she Does she just not have any hair?
00:46:04
Speaker
i think Well, I think her in later seasons when she does have the thinner hair, where it's just kind of like cut on the sides, I think that is her normal, that is her hair, I think. But I think it's a combination of two things. Star Trek, which is known for having kind of ridiculous hair for women. But also, i if my recollection is correct, Carrie McClugage, who was like the head of Paramount, I think it was Paramount TV, he was obsessed with hair.
00:46:28
Speaker
like like they would they would redo reshoot stuff like we'll get in with enterprise they like reshot a bunch because he didn't like Scott Bakula's hair hair hair hair is like a big thing for him him wasn't that after that whole thing with um no I think maybe he's not cable grew his real hair and he's like put a wig on her Yeah. open up But it was funny because I mentioned- She needs more hair on that, that shin you're on. In the Deep Space Nine documentary, um, Carrie McClugage is interviewed and, and I had never seen him before. So when he popped up and he had like perfect silver fox hair, I'm like, it all makes sense now. It all makes sense. The guy obsessed with hair has amazing hair. Like the guy definitely has like his barbers show up to his office, right? Like every other week. Absolutely. Or just chain there. Yeah, exactly.
00:47:16
Speaker
um Any best other best tropes you want to- No. Worst trek tropes. I'm doing the first one. Calling out shield percentages. Go to that. Yeah. Not that I don't mind it sometimes, but it's not even a good shortcut. It's lazy drama. It's meaningless, empty, lazy drama. Anyway.
00:47:39
Speaker
So I actually have a hair related one and Janeway's hair gets kind of messy. Like her bun comes a little undone and that's how you know, it's serious. ah yeah they get sore gra the Yeah. Yeah. And then she like fixes it so quickly though.
Voyager's Aesthetics and Cultural Themes
00:47:54
Speaker
The next scene it's all perfectly in place again.
00:47:58
Speaker
Kate Mulgrew is great though. I love the, cause she's doing that when she's on the move, right? When she's like walking engineering, she fixes her hair real quick. I just liked that. It was good. Yeah. But then it's like absolutely perfect. Oh yeah. app yeah Um, but I also put God as the worst Trek trope because, um, give it to me. Why, why is it bad here? Because it it's been done. It's weak. Like it's been done in every pilot. That's how you know, it's Star Trek though. I know it's Star Trek cause they're flying in spaceships.
00:48:28
Speaker
and wearing the same, ghost wearing the uniforms and whatever, all those other things. I don't need the God thing again and again. It's the most interesting part of the episode to me though, which is probably damning with faint praise because it's it's a half cooked idea.
00:48:44
Speaker
It is. it is it's like I think it just wasn't executed as well. like I think it was executed better. I think it was certainly executed better in the original series when they got to punch God in the mouth. And then um also, at least in The Next Generation, it introduces Q, who's an actually interesting character who sticks around and comes back later. And I also think it was done better in Deep Space Nine. This is the worst application of it, I think. All of them have points of view.
00:49:14
Speaker
this one does not have a point of view. No. He just sees the Okampa as children. So he's kind of a condescending dick in his own way. Yeah. And just kidnapping people across the galaxy against their will, trying to force his- Trying to bang them? Yeah, force the genetic material into them. So he's an asshole, which is consistent with the Roddenberry stuff. But no point of view. Like, he's like the Okampa. He's like, I'm trying to protect the Okampa. But it's like, why?
00:49:42
Speaker
You know what I mean? Like, you why do you feel guilty? Like, how many of them are there? like Like, why is your guilt? What is it about you that you have such guilt? And why is this the only solution you came up with? um Anyway, okay. ah Sleep. They're always pushing sleep. Two bucks, like, you're tired. you should You should get some rest. A tired captain. You know, it's like all the shows.
00:50:04
Speaker
to me it always felt like you know what I shouldn't say it always as I got older and I just kept hearing it over and over again it's like did the writers just run out of an idea it's like you can't you have to avoid conflict so they have to say something that's innocuous but is It's kind of like pseudo-conflict, right? Like, you need to do this, but I can't tell you from my character. I just need to tell you from a medical perspective, you should get some sleep. But anyway, that's it's annoying. Star Trek and sleep, no. Why do you want the audience to think about going to sleep? Yeah. Who cares? And then ADR, this this one ruined the pilot as much as it did in Deep Space 9, I thought.
00:50:46
Speaker
they yeah was pretty bad and Paris hitting on Stadi and flirting with the holographic farm girl. pretty Yeah, he was goingnna bang that holograph she was trying to get him away from the barn and it almost worked. And then Lieutenant Stadi just like just firing like he's taking his dick out there.
00:51:08
Speaker
and And because it's a 4-3 framing, they they do have to keep them in the same picture. But he is yeah very closer. He is like know in her lap. Throughout the entire episode, like everyone's so close. Because yeah yeah they're all 18 inches apart from each other. It's very weird. When Rick Colby really likes those big faces in the 4-3, which is great for TV. But it's weird to watch now. So next is most of its time quality.
00:51:37
Speaker
Um, I put haircuts. Yeah. Yeah. And also there's a reference to global warming. Um, when, not relevant now. but Well, cause around that, like but but it would have been like what, like five years before when they finally like discovered the whole nose and layer. And so I feel like that was probably kind of a timely reference at the time. The hair, the hair is always a thing too. Have you heard the term pilot hair?
00:52:05
Speaker
no i guess i guess there is a thought with actors anyway that you definitely have different hairstyle in the pilot versus the oh yeah because it's not necessarily like yeah it's not the final none of the stuff yeah it's not the final look and it could just be different hair makeup people yeah and different wardrobe people even too so that that to me that whenever it's like a pilot it's always interesting to see how the hair changes from one to the next um but this is such a well oiled machine at this point the whole star trek industrial complex going on on the Paramount lot that there's probably not a lot of different people. Um, so it's just, these were just decisions that that they stuck with for a while and then changed it. Okay. But I have two. No, it's just one. It's just one most of its time. The casual nineties racism. I have three examples of it. Yeah. I think I know one.
00:52:57
Speaker
Oh, go ahead. I want what's the one where Tom Paris is telling makes a comment to Chico Taylor. Are you going to make us turn into a bird and fly away or something that he says? Oh, yeah. So isn't that some sort of Indian custom? And he goes, oh, wrong tribe. And then when he's carrying him out, it's don't you know, an Indian trick where you can turn into a bird and fly us? out Yeah. And he goes, you're too heavy. And so it's like he's brushing off this racism with like these one liners as like, oh, it's OK.
00:53:27
Speaker
That that's definitely it. And just the whole Tom Paris character is kind of like I don't remember Han Solo being like that absolutely dickish to people. Well, he was, but he was at least charming about it. Yeah, he had like a certain charm about it. Never felt like Consul was going out of his way. Like he was a little like he's kind of a rascal. Yeah, he was never going out of his way. And Tom Paris is just a fucking dick. Yeah, he's definitely. Yeah. But this is what you said about Torres. I think the Latina, the fiery Latina character.
00:53:58
Speaker
Mm hmm. But oh, but she's part c Klingon, but her name is Tauris. And then they don't even really double down on I don't know if it's sexism or if it's racism, but she's a cling half Klingon, but all she gets from it is the temper, not the yeah more strength because she pounds on that door and she doesn't even put a dent in it. So it's like so she's kind of impotently angry. And it's like, well, that's dumb.
00:54:29
Speaker
Yeah. She's just an angry woman. Yeah. And they don't even draw attention to it. She's just like, yeah, I get angry. That's just a burden. got Yeah. Like no one even asked her about it. She volunteers the information. And then I kind of think there's a there's weird undertones. It's like a more of a class thing with the way Neelix is like sort of his design. First of all, his design. Hold on. Hold on. This is the design of Neelix, the pattern he wears, the his skin. This is a very 90s look. This is like, if you went to a mall in the 90s, the patterns, the cloth patterns on the chair, on the bench seats and stuff, like this is what it looks like. If you want to know what I'm talking about, if you go watch the opening titles, The Say by the Bell, look at all the weird art that's behind the words, like that is 90s. And that's basically Neelix is one of those murals coming to life.
00:55:25
Speaker
I also put, because this is the 90s, and it's a TV show, Neelix is, can we say just universally unattractive? Not as bad as like Quark, but he's not an attractive character. he's ah He's a nice guy or whatever, but whatever. But I put that he's super attractive, he is a smoking hot girlfriend, and then that is something that TV in the 90s used to do. You'd have like a dumpy male character who had like a hot wife.
00:55:55
Speaker
So the original King of Queens is what you're saying. Yeah. Yeah, that's the older man, younger girlfriend. I mean, that's that's a. Yeah, she's only two. time Yeah, she's only two. yeah But like so far out of her league, out of his league. All right. It's a very 90s show that of its time quality is like if you watch that show, you know, it's set in the 90s anyway. All right. Come on, Kristen, do it.
00:56:24
Speaker
Yeah, I think I have it in me. All right. The line must be drawn here. um Great lines.
00:56:34
Speaker
yeah ah but i don't have I don't have the gravitas to pull it off. I'm so sorry. Neither do I. It doesn't stop me. you do it much better than I could ever do it. um But the very beginning, when there's still a D.U. Space Nine, Quark says, slurs against my people at Starfleet Academy? um Because Kim says that, oh, I've learned all about the Ferengi at Starfleet Academy when he thinks he's being swindled.
00:57:04
Speaker
And he is being swindled, but the mock outrage, I loved it. Like it has such that, not to go back to Casablanca, but it has very much the same feel of gambling. I'm shot, shot to learn there's gambling going on in this establishment. um Like the faux outrage of it. um And then I also, there's a line, um, that captain Janeway says when she's talking to her partner, I guess on like a video call and he's like, Oh, I don't want to bother you. And then she's like, you don't bother me except in the way that I like to be bothered. Wink. Get it girl. I put that line too. I think it was the way she delivers it. Yeah. She's like, yeah. Like, okay, we get it.
00:57:54
Speaker
Hold on, let me see if I can bring the same level of gravitas. She goes, hey, you never bother me, except the way I love to be bothered. Understand? By the way, she's giving so much more than that guy is. What bad casting? That was like, oh my gosh. Well, I mean. I'm sorry if it's anyone's dad or someone that I should show. Well, I'm sure it was like he couldn't. It's not like they were in the same room doing it.
00:58:17
Speaker
No. At the same time, why not? He was probably just giving it to the camera and some production assistant is reading the lines off camera. Oh, I just couldn't stand his line reading of like, don't forget to go pick up her bed, the dog's bed. And he goes, I already did an hour ago. I'm like, no one says it like that. Why did you say it that way? Anyway, Mr. Kim at ease before you sprain something.
00:58:45
Speaker
that's um That's all I have. I don't have anything else. I have, I liked the doctor asking for a tricorder and being handed and the wrong one. He goes, medical tricorder, just as the over there. um The scene that I liked where she's with Tuvok, I like when she's looking out the window and she goes, I never seem to have a chance to get to know any of them. I have to take more time to do that.
00:59:09
Speaker
I think I really like that part of she's giving you sort of another angle of being a captain. And it's not like the captain has to care about all their crew. But I think maybe in this particular set of circumstances where it's uncertain if they are going to get home, right? She's like, well, now would be a good time if we actually knew each other. Well, good news. You've designed it so you're going to have all the time in the world.
00:59:31
Speaker
And then we did get a Dr. McCoy throwback of sorts where the doctor goes, that's enough. This is a sick bay, not a conference room. This is after they've asked me to pass and they're all talking. And then I just like the line delivery of the way Kate Mulgrew says, the K's on Oglah. Who are the K's on Oglah? It's like kind of so goofy, but the line begs the actor to do that. So anyway, those are the ones I had. The Anton Caridian Award for Best Performance. I don't have anything. I'm sorry. I book Kate Mulgrew.
00:59:59
Speaker
Sure. Yeah.
Casting Challenges and Character Dynamics in Voyager
01:00:00
Speaker
I mean, I don't have anyone else to give it to her, give it to. So I'm going to say her. But um I struggled with that one because I was like, I mean, I didn't think anyone was like. Super, super amazing. No, but I thought she she did a good job. And also, yeah, fact I think for like a recast and a pilot, she did pretty good. We didn't even mention that really. But Jean Vanite, Jean, Jean Vivre.
01:00:23
Speaker
Peugeot was the original Janeway. I don't even think it was Catherine Janeway, it was something else. Megan Janeway, I don't know. Megan. Anne. Yeah, Anne Janeway. And so she basically came in after they'd been shooting for two or three days. So even on that sense, I think it worked pretty well. um I have an honorable mention because I do, every time it happens, I think, oh, this is pretty good. Is the old woman on the farm?
01:00:50
Speaker
Oh, come get some tea and some sugar cookies. And then yeah she has to turn. She's like, Oh, we're not ready for you yet. Or sorry, we put you out. I thought I liked her performance very steady, better than the, um, the caretaker guy. I thought he was a little not in there. He had the right look, which maybe he had the car. That's maybe the Cardinal sin of all these.
01:01:14
Speaker
Berman Star Trek shows, was they cast by look and sort of vibe, but it's like, well, can the guy deliver? And they're like, it doesn't matter. We're shooting so many episodes this season, it doesn't matter. ah Moving on. Yep. All right. That moves us on to the Shatner.
01:01:31
Speaker
I kind of wanted to put the whole cast, but that's a little unfair. It's the pilot. So I'm going to put Robert Duncan McNeil as Tom Paris. It's partly the way it's written, but he doesn't. Is there a good guy version of mustache twirling because he's doing that? I don't know. No, I don't think there is. He invented it then, I guess.
01:01:54
Speaker
um I do like the old man, the caretaker when he just goes, you don't have what I need and calls him minor bipedal species and like brings him to the farm. There's all these pitchfork wielding yokels.
01:02:09
Speaker
um Oh, with Paris, the part that really stood out to me was, okay, he's being kind of a rogue and all that stuff, and and you can get it. There's a version of his smarminess being as a deflection, right? But then the part where he goes, it's a long story, Harry, and I'm tired of telling it. like That's when he's being like supposed to be emotionally honest, right? And it still just came off as phony. It was very phony, um but he was going for it at the same time. so Okay, the Stoddy actress, and I didn't write it down. So the pilot that's taking them to Voyager, and she's like, I can be warm and sensual. And she's like putting up with him. And she's, she's kind of being sly and funny and having a sense of humor. And then she goes, and there she is, like Voyager, and then her tone changes to like, now you've got to sell it to the nerds, get on top of that car girl.
01:03:02
Speaker
Cause she goes, she was like capable of cruising speed. Like she gets into this very weird announcer voice, bio neuro circuitry. And it's like, whoa, what happened? So she was really going for it here. Cause they're like, this is by the way, day player, this will sell the series to the nerds. So you really have to make it clear what's going on. More feeling please.
01:03:24
Speaker
Um, and then Robert Beltranis, Jacote. I think in the pilot though, that Jacote is so dumbly written. Like yeah when he performed in this episode, it was kind of rough all the way through. so I also put the Kazon guy. What's his name? Oh, generic, generic villain dude of the week. yeah he When he's on, when he, when he's on screen.
01:03:51
Speaker
at the end and he goes, you have made an enemy today and then hangs up on her. And that's it. That's it. right Yeah. He's like sitting against the wall of his breakfast nook. It's like, you're not intimidating. Yeah. Also, the Kazon are weird. They're supposed to, they were modeled after like LA street gangs or something. So they're they were, the original conception was they're supposed to. Yeah. The dreadlocks are a little offensive, I would say. Yeah. That's a, I think the Kazon also are very nineties, you know, like a yeah white, a white guy having lived through the LA riots in l LA being like, hmm, let's make them the villains.
01:04:24
Speaker
Yeah, that's my takeaway from the whole experience. So I, this is the first time we get kind of a easy answer here. What part of this are they teaching at Starfleet Academy? Well, they're, they're fucking racist against the frangy they're teaching. Yeah. slu is teacher yeah springy That's what I put. Like, we know I've heard all about you. Like they have like courses on like, you can't trust these motherfuckers. Like watch your wallet.
01:04:50
Speaker
But then the other one was ah old sneezy. ah Professor Zakarian who taught a survival course. So what else are they teaching? I guess is like surviving tough situations and alien planets.
01:05:02
Speaker
like But also that was weird because Zakarian had a bunch of allergies and also she's a first year cadet. Why is she in a survival class? Why would a first year cadet need to be in a survival class? Cause you're trying to get them through or else they wash out. Ah, it was weird. My third thought was like,
01:05:25
Speaker
you should probably if you have a chance to get your ship home you should yeah ah yeah what in the f**k jane why what the hell are you doing so that bumps us right into the what would the predecessor captain show resolve how they resolve the conflict now this is me revealing that i kind of lied at the beginning what i i did remember very much watching this episode when it first premiered and remembering very clearly being fine with the show up until the end, going like, this is dumb because Picard wouldn't have been stranded there. And, and this was before I like fell in love with Cisco. So now it's like, and Cisco wouldn't have been there. I don't think there's any situation where in previous shows, if it's the enterprise instead of Voyager, if it's the divine instead of Voyager, they're going to fight the case on and they're going to figure it out. And that's it. Yeah.
01:06:16
Speaker
or data's gonna figure something out, we can take the computer and put it on the enterprise. Yeah, it just, because she well because like she was like arguing against herself of like, um oh, well, children have to grow up and they'll figure it out. And then like between that and also like, oh, then we'll just blow this place up and strand ourselves and not help anybody.
01:06:41
Speaker
Right. That's and that is that am i because i put I wasn't quite sure. I was like, at the end I said, so does she actually destroy the array and strand them there? Am I watching this? Am I, is that what I've just taken away from this? Like that happened, right? Like I didn't just ah infer that. Yeah. I also think.
01:07:03
Speaker
and Now I'm really thinking it through and this is now the hindsight of what, 25 years? yeah But it's like, uh, okay. So she's orders the destruction of the array and everyone's fine with that. Although I think Torres says something like you can't do that. You'll strand us here.
Concluding Thoughts on 'Caretaker' and Voyager's Legacy
01:07:21
Speaker
Here's, here's the counter pitch.
01:07:23
Speaker
destroy the array, and the crew member refuses to do it. And it's the Maquis person who says, I totally understand what this the conflict is, right? It's the Okampa, and it's a it's a turf war, like the what's the Maquis are fighting, and I have a chance to deal a blow to the Kazon.
01:07:41
Speaker
So I'm going to, you know, they could just shove that crew member out of the way who didn't want to fire. And there was definitely that generic crew guy who was on the bridge, um shove them out of the way and and do it themselves.
01:07:54
Speaker
It's fulfilling Janeway's order. It's not like diminishing her, but it was just weird. And yeah, it's just, it it felt like they had to arrive at that point and there was nothing unique that got us to that point. So it's like a little bit like they moved the station in the deep sea, but that was the finale. You know what I mean? Like that was just the weirdness to set up the series and it it didn't work. Fell flat to me. Cause there's so many ways you could strand a ship out in the middle of nowhere.
01:08:24
Speaker
Yeah, or even needing it to be because of any choice anyone on board made. Also, if the Okampa part of the story was better, if the Quezon part of the story was better, you could probably amp up the reason why destroying the station makes the most sense so that it's clear, but it all felt like a rush. Anyway, all that said- It all seemed like it was one group of people withholding water from the other.
01:08:51
Speaker
right it's also sort of like good way and yeah it's also like okay so there's a resource scarcity issue and yet these ships are they have spaceships these spaceships are super powerful Right, because their their weapons are strong enough to like batter the Voyager. um It was just it's kind of like things didn't quite fit. And towards the end, it's kind of this rush. And you're like, wait, what? So it felt just a little sloppy and coming off Deep Space Nine pilot. Right. It's just to me, it just felt like, oh, this is kind of a mess. Yeah.
01:09:27
Speaker
So if you're, if you are interested in doing a Star Trek watch or rewatch, I would not recommend watching the DC sign pilot and Voyager pilot back to back. No. Oh God, don't do it. So that leads us to Trek, marry or kill. Kristen, are you Trek marrying or killing Star Trek, Voyager caretaker? Uh, you know, I wrestled with this one. So I thought maybe I'm just like being too harsh on it because of the circumstances of me watching it, but not for this episode to kill it.
01:09:55
Speaker
you ki yeah i I'm trekking it because I think that there's- Is it a light trek or is it a enthusiastic trek? Yeah, it's like ah it's like the trek shrinking into- Out of obligation, perhaps? It's fine. it's and I've watched it on my own, not just for the show before, you haven't, but I've watched it on my own it's it and it's one of my twenty of the 20 episodes, I think, are good episodes of Voyager. Oh boy, okay.
01:10:27
Speaker
Okay, so that means we kind of have um a tie or we didn't land on the situation and this would be a great opportunity for listeners to give us some feedback. I don't know how they're going to do that on social media because Twitter is dying and we're not on Facebook.
01:10:42
Speaker
But we are kind of still on Twitter and we are going to be on, we are on Instagram. When this goes up, we'll be on Instagram. So Trek Mary K-Pod on Twitter or Instagram, give us your feedback. Maybe I'll put up a poll. I don't know how to do anything on Instagram, so I'll figure that out. Yeah, you got you can ask questions and stories.
01:11:02
Speaker
You kind of pulled me towards the kill side, but since I actually liked the opening title sequence... You're gonna try it, but you're not gonna enjoy it. That's right. You're just gonna close your eyes the whole time. Or at least that first hour. Look at the clock a few times. Yeah, exactly. In the meantime, thanks for listening. If you're liking and enjoying the show,
01:11:26
Speaker
Trek, Mary, kill the podcast. Consider rating us five stars on Apple podcasts. And I did it. Yeah. ah like Those are for me. I tried, but then it remembered that I actually set up the account, so it wouldn't let me. Oh. And then if you have time, leave a review. We're also on Twitter. I didn't have a time for that. No, it's fine. It's fine. Oh, I'm not just talking to you, but I appreciate it, Kristen. I mean, this is our show. No, I know. I'm just telling everyone I didn't write a review of the podcast I'm on. So all the reviews are genuine as far as I know.
01:12:02
Speaker
Yes. And, uh, and we look forward to receiving any listeners as well. So we're also on Twitter and Instagram at trekmarykpod, as I said, and we'll be back next week with an all new episode until then TMK out. Bye.
01:12:19
Speaker
Welcome to the first night of the first network for the next century. UPN.