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LD: "wej duj" & "First First Contact" (s2e9-10) with Katie Hampton
169 Plays2 months ago
KLINGONS! VULCANS! PROMOTIONS! This month's animated spotlight focuses on the last two episodes of Lower Decks' second season, in which we get the introduction of T'Lyn and Ma'ah and discover that Ensign Sonya Gomez has been promoted from spilling hot chocolate on Captain Picard to captaining her own starship -- which the Cerritos needs to rescue in one of Trek's most thrilling sequences this century. BUT! Are these episodes TREKs, MARRYs or KILLs?
The grades for "wej duj" begin at (21:04). Jump to "First First Contact" at (59:10).
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Transcript
The Ethics of Networking in Starfleet
00:00:00
Speaker
This month on Trek Mary Kill... Treachery, buddies. Talin! Energize. Socializing with a commander can be a huge factor in getting a promotion. Why don't you make a new friend? Are you also from Hawaii? Nothing like riding those tropical waves. What if Ransom finds out in life? and What's more important? Having a commander friend? Or being true to yourself? Aloha!
Introduction to Trek Mary Kill Podcast
00:00:26
Speaker
Trek Mary Kill
00:00:32
Speaker
Hi, I'm Brian. Hi, I'm Katie. Welcome to Trek Mary Kill, a podcast that judges episodes of Star Trek like a ship of Vulcans, judges a slightly emotional crew member. For this month's animated spotlight, we're looking at the last two episodes of Star Trek Lower Decks Second Season. Katie Hampton of the Napping Through Happy Hour podcast is back with us. Hi, Katie. Hey, how's it going? Katie, what do you think is the group noun for Vulcans?
00:00:56
Speaker
Oh, oh man. That's actually, that's a good gotcha question. I i told Katie before we started recording, I'm like, we're going to skip some of our format. No gotcha questions. I'm like, Oh, is it called an emotion? Uh, I like that. That's better. Mine was a logic of Vulcans, but I like yours. an emotion of of Vulcans. A lot of Vulcans, yeah. A meld of Vulcans. A meditation. Yeah. a meditation Oh, that's also good. This was a thing at the, what, around the turn of the century where Aaron Sorkin, I think, kicked off this idea of like, what's the group noun for whatever? And so it became like a
00:01:40
Speaker
a cutesy little joke structure that you would do. But I don't think we ever resolved what the Vulcan one was. And I'm surprised that Lower Decks has never done that joke before. Yeah, I'm actually surprised too. like as As you asked it, I was like, oh, what a great writing opportunity. Maybe they have and we're forgetting it and we're we're it's surfacing because it's entered our subconscious. Who knows? Maybe. Our two episodes this month, in one of them, I'm going to be like, wait, we didn't already see this before?
00:02:10
Speaker
I'm going to talk about that later, but right now we're going to talk about Wedge Judge.
Analyzing Star Trek Lower Decks S2E9
00:02:14
Speaker
It's the ninth episode of Star Trek Lower Decks Second Season, the premiere on Paramount Plus, October 7th, 2021, written by Catherine Lynn, directed by Bob Suarez. Memory Alpha describes it. Boimler tries to find a bridge buddy while the Cerritos crew has downtime during a long warp trip.
00:02:30
Speaker
What Memory Alpha doesn't tell you is that this episode takes place on three different ships. Not only the Cerritos, but also the Klingon bird of prey Chetah and the Vulcan cruiser Shavall. And we get stories from the perspective of their lower deckers. Ma,
00:02:46
Speaker
who is my ah it sort of the Klingon equivalent of Boimler, who hopes to gain his Captain Dorgue's favor. And he eventually does and comes across this big conspiracy. ah The one being that the Klingon captain has been the one arming the Pakleds this whole time in order to disrupt the Federation. Meanwhile, we meet Talin.
00:03:07
Speaker
ah who is sort of the Vulcan version of Mariner. More on that in a bit. And and when all three of these storylines combine, it brings these ships together, and it culminates in what I would say a very satisfying space battle. Yes. I also feel like it was more like a like a man-haver in a way.
00:03:26
Speaker
Well, I i guess it was basing on how his fellow lower deckers were treating him. Sure. They're kind of mocking all of his enthusiasm. But he is a look good looking guy, which is one of the main tenants of man-havers. Man-havers. Man-havers, yes.
00:03:40
Speaker
Is the jet part of it. Yes. Wedge does is, is a three ships. It's a Klingon translation of the word three ships. It takes place on three ships. That makes sense. Ken Riley interviewed Mike McMahon, the showrunner for trekcore.com back in 2021. It's an expansive interview. It kind of touches on episodes eight, nine, and 10, and it's a good one. So go check it out. Some bits from it.
Klingon and Vulcan Perspectives in Star Trek
00:04:04
Speaker
ah This is my quick band, which does kind of end up being like the kind of pitch I'd make to Paramount if they let me make a Star Trek movie. What I would want is like a Wrath of Khan era a movie that looks like it was produced in 1982 from the point of view of a Klingon ship and the point of view of a Vulcan ship. That's like my dream Star Trek movie. Yeah. See, everyone has their own version of Star Trek. Yes, it's true.
00:04:29
Speaker
ah We were getting a little pushback from the network who were concerned about the story being away from the Lower Deckers on the Cerritos for so long. My feedback to them was, I promise you, we're doing this late enough in the season for it to work and there's still a ton of time with our main characters in it. But you know, when you hear a pitch like this, it can be a little scary. Be like an episode where it was just me talking.
00:04:52
Speaker
Or maybe people would be up for an episode where it was just you and somebody else talking and not me talking. That's getting away from this. All right. Vote now. Paul Bryan or a no Bryan. I know how that vote will go.
00:05:09
Speaker
And then Michael again also mentioned we spent the longest time and sound design for this episode too We did like a six-hour mix because this is the first time I felt like we made an episode This is why I included the clip. I'm like, why did I include this comment? Like a six-hour mix because this is the first time I meaning my companion felt like we meeting the show had made an episode That could have been part of the next gen or deep space 9 series It's a little faster and a little funnier than those shows But to me I was losing my mind with happiness that we pulled it off Yeah. This is one of those times where someone giving themselves a pat on the back and like earned. Very, very earned. um And another fun, special fun fact is that ah one of my good friends, Joy Brunson, actually does a voice on this episode as one of the Vulcans.
Character Connections and Development
00:05:56
Speaker
Holy cow. Yeah. sha Shara, um yeah I Yeah. It was funny because when this episode aired, I was like, that voice is very familiar. And I looked it up and I was like, oh my gosh, Joy. I have gotten drunk with that voice before now. That is actually very true. The very first time I met her, I was actually very drunk and told her a story twice. That's awesome. yeah ah And then from the same interview, we got to talk about it to Lynn. I think one of the everyone's
00:06:29
Speaker
Who doesn't like to win? I want to meet the Lower Decks fan, not the Star Trek hater, not the fanboy little rascals. I hate everything that's new Star Trek people. Sure. The Lower Deckers. Who doesn't like to win is my question, but everyone likes to win. I mean, vote now. um but All to win show or no to win.
00:06:51
Speaker
And it it's such a great introduction to this character too because, ah you know, for those of you who haven't seen the newer seasons, um but Tillan comes back and Tillan actually gets transferred spoilers to the Cerritos. um But, oh, what a fun introduction and what ah what a great way to introduce ah a Vulcan that's not, who's actually following her emotions.
00:07:18
Speaker
Absolutely. Or is that I think even truer to the spirit of Volcanity, Volcanicity, that Nemo, even though ah Spock is half human, I think the best version of Vulcans are the one where it's like, no, no, they're clearly feeling it. They're they're either coolly restraining it or visibly restraining it. Right. Which I think is why Julian Blaylock is actually pretty good. And to Paul was like,
00:07:44
Speaker
a very poorly written character for lots of reasons. ah But Jolene Blalock made that work. And she did it because she was basically doing a Leonard Nimoy thing. And again, Spock is human and Vulcan, but the best Vulcans are the ones where they're like, Oh, this person does feel but they're in total control. right um And this is one where she's like,
00:08:04
Speaker
which feels a little bit more meditative than a lot of the things that the Vulcans are doing. Correct. And this one I like, though, she's emotional and she's called a child. Right. She's not called a human, which is what you would I think is like the the really hacky way of calling it out. Instead, it's them being canonical Vulcans saying, yeah, we do have emotions, but children are the ones who display. most Right. Right. That was a very real thing. So and I like that because she's She is kind of like a mariner. She's like, what's the problem with my emotions? I'm doing what I'm supposed to anyway. um And I like this idea because logically some some Vulcans might seem like utilizing your emotions is a strength in some way. That makes sense to me. Anyway, I like that. It's like an interspecies tension that adds some complexity. But anyway, Mike McMan says of Talin because Trek Core asks, fans are clamoring to see Talin again. You really fell in love with her.
00:09:01
Speaker
And Michael Gann says, Catherine Lynn wrote it and she's so deep into into it. Literally, Talin is the name of the
Talin's Role and Evolution
00:09:08
Speaker
Vulcan. She has cosplayed as for years at conventions. I did not know this. I didn't know that either. Oh, I just got chills.
00:09:16
Speaker
So there are a lot of people who are like, have her join the Cerritos. But listen, I have a story for Talin figured out. Season three is written in like the first episode of season three. She's not on the Cerritos. You know what I mean? But I have stories for Talin that are coming. I love Talin and I love Ma. My whole thing with Klingons is that I just love a Klingon that doesn't backstab a Klingon that's like the most honest in their motivations. Of course, so we know both of these characters do come back and it's always nice.
00:09:42
Speaker
How do I put this? This is not a criticism. Like there's always the planned returns and the unplanned returns. Right. And very rarely do the planned returns work out. I would say. Work out the same way. Yes. It's like almost I would say that the return rate on we want this character to hit or be big is very slim. It's actually very hard to do to introduce compelling, memorable characters.
00:10:09
Speaker
midway through the run and then I expect to get comments of people just listing all the types that's not the case. But it's it just seems like one of those times where I think unambiguously in this episode, both those characters were intended to be bright spots that drew you in and they both succeed very well, I think.
00:10:32
Speaker
I would agree. I would i would definitely agree. And i i love how I love how they set this episode up because it seemed like it was going to be just a run of the mill. Boimler tries to hang out with all of the bridge crew and snails every single time. And yes, there is that. But being able to see all these different perspectives and all these different lower decks, quote unquote,
00:10:57
Speaker
ah so Oh, it's just it it brings so much more into this world and so much more fun and they can have a lot more jokes. like Even the Klingon jokes of Vulcans, I was like, spot on, well done.
00:11:13
Speaker
Uh just a tiny bit more about Talin because I do I really like the character. Yeah it's just a good I think what works is that she just fits the energy of the show and she's like a good detour and I would say that the four main lower deckers are so they occupy such specific energy that her the fifth one you know being able to be rooted on the yeah rooted but on the line like what is she between? Is she between Mariner and Boimler or Tindy and Rutherford right? She kind of like I'd say she's more between Rutherford and Mariner because hey she's passionate as they all are so she's passionate and and she's passionate about her work which is very Rutherford but she's way more grounded in what seems like either experience or foreknowledge which is very Mariner-esque but she doesn't act
00:12:05
Speaker
I mean, she acts on it like Mariner does, but she's way more in tune with how she's not neurotic like Boimler and Tendi. So that makes sense. Perfect. The process of elimination. Very logical, Katie. Thank you.
00:12:20
Speaker
In 2024, though, StarTrek.com did a profile of Gabrielle Ruiz, voice of Talin, and it's here when I learned that she ah ah originally auditioned for the role of Mariner. Oh! I didn't know that. She i didn't get the part, but they did cast her in other voice roles over the years. Ensign Lamont, a computer voice, Castro, ah she says, I mean, when I saw my name in the Star Trek font, I lost it. When she was in Crazy Ex-Girlfriend,
00:12:47
Speaker
um she was the girl oh i forgot all their names now she was uh rachel blooms nemesis of sorts yeah um yeah i'm gonna have to look it up now too um oh gosh yeah valencia perez yes valencia thank you yes Uh, so she was basically, you know, she was the princess, the queen of that show in a lot of ways and very talented. I think she's a dancer and a singer. So she's, you know, does a lot of voice work. So, uh, anyway, for her audition for her to Lynn, she said of her audition for to Lynn, she says, I did a lot of work and study for this character and listening because there's a lot of listening and an animation and it hit me immediately.
00:13:28
Speaker
Talin is a Vulcan rendition of Mariner. That's what I took. And I remember a season prior to that, and in Weijdej, she kind of flips off her captain with the Vulcan salute. And that felt like the moment where she tells her captain to live long and prosper, sir. That was the audition scene. And I remember thinking that I had to match that to that. Let's put her in a different universe. And you know what? I guess right. I put some still comedy in there. And I remember listening to it and worrying if I was right. But this was special to me, to my family. And I booked it.
00:13:57
Speaker
Um, one thing I will say about to Lynn is something they've, her audio, her voice sounds different in these later seasons than in this first appearance. And I don't know if it was like, she's changed mic. She's recording remotely now where she was not then they've in this episode, they clearly speed up some of her dialogue to merge.
00:14:19
Speaker
the scenes because maybe she's speaking very slowly as a Vulcan. and It doesn't quite match the pace of the animation, which is fine to make sense. It's not criticism. I just note that the mix of her sound is a little more, Talin is a little more mono monotonal in these later episodes to the point where it's like, is it the writing? Did they AI her? What's going on here? no hopeful's not and i dare doubts It's not the character.
Production Choices and Impacts
00:14:44
Speaker
It's just like some of her speech patterns. This one, she sounds much more naturalistic and in it. You find this from time to time where people are recording in different spots and it just sounds different. It doesn't sound like
00:14:56
Speaker
It's weird to say that they're in the same room as these other characters. And in this one, she seems like a piece of it, but in these later season episodes, she, well, Lord X is over now, rest in peace, but, um you know. But in the later season, she kind of sounded atonal with what else was going on. It was odd. And maybe it's just because she's a very successful actor and she's doing other stuff. So she's having to record from a dressing room, Gabriel Ruiz.
00:15:23
Speaker
might Might be, but I mean, I don't know. It also feels like she has to be more of the lower energy as opposed to like mariner or boiler screams. I think that's true. But there's some like in this one, she's very emotional anyway, and you can hear the restraints. But in the other one, she's much flatter. She's very flat. It's kind of like it's trending into that.
00:15:45
Speaker
what I don't like when Vulcans are just robots. Monotone. They're not robots. Yeah. She's very emotional. So it could be the writing. It could be the direction that could just be like, all right, I'm on my way in between all my multiple gigs. Yeah. They all record this in the back of an Uber. Clean it up. I don't know. A few more notes before we get into the grades. ah This is the first Star Trek episode titled To Begin with a Lower Case. This episode was nominated for the Hugo Award for Best Traumatic Presentation Short Form.
00:16:14
Speaker
That was in 2021 for the 2022 awards. I got to read through the ones that it was up against. So, Lordex, Loki, the Nexus events event. I think that was probably the season finale, season one of Loki. I think ah Arcane, the monster you created, did not wish Arcane. Oh, it's so good. You should.
00:16:34
Speaker
for all mankind, the gray and a fantastic episode of for all mankind, the wheel of time, the flame of Tar Valon, Tar Valon, I'm saying. yeah i didn't finish And then and then the winner.
00:16:50
Speaker
The Expanse, Nemesis games written by Narin Shankar, former next generation writer, but also the book series writers, Daniel Abraham and Ty Frank. ah It was the season five finale, Expanse fans. I'm a big Expanse head.
00:17:06
Speaker
ah which to me, it's the spiritual successor of Star Trek. So it's incredible. It's really and it's really well done. And ah I really liked when it moved to Prime as well. um Series creator Mike McMahon originally planned to have the opening credits of this episode appear in both Klingon and Vulcan, but was unable to do so due to the time and expense it would have added. He said it would have been an extra minute or so of animation to basically make all the credits, either Klingon, depending on if you're on the Klingon ship,
00:17:35
Speaker
or Vulcan if you're on the Vulcan ship. Basically, you wouldn't if you're a human, you wouldn't be able to understand what the credits were saying. sure And an extra minute of animation is a lot of time. I don't think people necessarily have a sense of what that all means. That's expensive, yeah. So I guess to put it in another way that can like every every second of film, like if you watch a movie, this is harder to do now because now we it's all digital.
00:18:02
Speaker
But when you saw a movie in 1996,
00:18:07
Speaker
a second of film is 24 frames. Yeah. If you're what even on TV when it's home, video for the most part, it's 10 frames a second. So I don't know how much a frame of animation costs. That's that's a key figure. How much is a one frame frame of animation cost? I don't know what that is, but times 10 times what? We've lost him to math.
00:18:31
Speaker
is that It's just 600. I was told there would be no math. The cost. Yeah, I know. Sorry. Anyway, it's the first episode of the franchise that features a scene played during the end credits. So at the end of the episode, we get one last ship for the lower decks and that's just the Borg cube.
00:18:46
Speaker
I love it. I love the joke of it that I i completely fer forgot about it and rewatching it this morning. I was like, oh, my God, that's right. They do that over the credits. And I'm not sure I didn't check, but I'm almost certain someone has looped it for 10 hours and placed it on YouTube. Oh, I'm sure just the hum of the board.
00:19:08
Speaker
it's soothing ah Should we get into the grades? Sure. All right. Unless you want to tell that story you told your friend twice. Oh my God. It was literally, I had just broken up with a boyfriend of like a couple of months and I was going to ah was going to her boyfriend's um birthday party at the time, her boyfriend at the time.
00:19:31
Speaker
And um i before I got there, I went to a restaurant that I worked at just to like say, hey, grab my tips so I can have some cash for the night and ran into my ex-boyfriend on a date and proceeded to get very drunk that night. And ah the that was the night that I met Joy and ah told her twice because I was drunk and forgot that I had told her what had just happened.
00:19:59
Speaker
Did I tell you? Yeah and she was like very sweet and she's like you did but go ahead. I
00:20:16
Speaker
Yeah. Good times. But Joy is a delight. Joy, you can also see Joy on um This Is Us, ah which I once hosted a um This Is Us viewing party for when she was on that show. And I had to play catch up with that show. but That is not a show you should binge watch. No.
00:20:38
Speaker
Don't do that, because it is a very emotional show.
Binge-Watching Emotional Impact
00:20:44
Speaker
The joy is very good on that show.
00:20:48
Speaker
That's great. Yeah, I'm always I'm always caught flat footed when I'm on this show or I've written this episode. I'm like, oh, shit, I got to catch up. I got to catch up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I know, especially with all the content we watch anyway. This is an L.A. problems. It really is. But don't binge watch. This is us. Watch maybe one or two at most a day. All right. Great moments.
00:21:13
Speaker
Okay, this is a completely random one, but it's one of my favorite Dr. Ta'ata moments, but Boimler is obviously going through all the different people trying to ah hang out with bridge crew people and he goes and hangs out with Tendi and Dr. Ta'ata while they're rock climbing and his jet boot, I guess.
00:21:37
Speaker
fire misfires and he starts to fall and Teddy's like, oh, safety protocols are on. it And she's like, Dr. Trotter is like. Yeah, sure. Whatever. And they just keeps climbing. So I owe that crap to you so much. All those scenes I kind of blacked out on, I'm like, they're just doing a up paying homage to Star Trek five. And yeah, just just but we did was all ah de stuff it's step. Yeah. And that's what you said. It's like you we could the obvious lower next episode is this is what the whole episode is.
00:22:11
Speaker
right boy we're trying to fit in and that's what's going on in that storyline but even they seem to be like this is we've done some version of this many times before right let's do something more interesting um my first great moment was around that which is the introduction of the other two the first time we meet the other two ships that when we are introduced to Ma and we are introduced to Talin, I think both of their introductions are so striking and just the, I guess I'm gonna say we're nerds, so this makes sense. orre The audacity of doing this, breaking the format of Star Trek.
00:22:52
Speaker
where they're going to other ships and putting a story that these are not our characters focusing. This is something a lot of other shows do, but it's very rare that we get something completely from, you know, even Face of the Enemy, Troy's on that ship. You know, Riker's been on a Klingon ship. like the you know ah Deep Space Nine episodes, you've got one character that transplants into this other thing, but I cannot think, ah maybe Enterprise would occasionally switch that perspective, but where it's just like making them the protagonist is sort of the the novelty there.
00:23:26
Speaker
um And I think they were both great because I don't know they brought on the Klingon ship with all the Klingon cliches And yes, right and another another misnomer I guess for the episode two I thought this was gonna be a whole episode about how he's gonna have to you know, ah I fight off somebody who was gonna challenge the captain or whatever and and it is but it ends up being him and what a great twist of a story and That's so great. I think that's what I'm saying is like it's because he's introduced so well and he's not wharf, but he's like, oh, he's the optimistic, unjaded version, which is what they're supposed to be. And then she is actually very much. You know, I i will say this about to land as much as she's like Mariner. I think what she's doing, where she's doing her own experiments off to the side is kind of tendie coded. Very. Yeah. Yes. So there's that element where actually maybe she is kind of a mix of tendie and mariner, but um at least in the and the introduction. But I love, I think what works is like it's kind of a stereotypical, oh it's a Vulcan ship, hu they're all humorless in a way, but then they use that as a joke.
00:24:35
Speaker
Yes, so great. Where she's just like, I have done this. And then she leaves you like she is out of control. Right. Right. Well, it's a classic Vulcan joke of like you these outbursts will not withstand or whatever all their eyebrows are.
00:24:50
Speaker
great Yes, yeah they're they're very fresh. It feels very fresh and fun, even though it is actually kind of recycling the tropes of what we know about these species. But as a format break and it's like, OK, we know what everyone we know that this episode is going to be about all of these lower deckers trying to deal with the growing pains of their positions. So I thought that was a great one. I have a few more great moments. What else do you have?
00:25:13
Speaker
ah Yeah, go go ahead, go ahead. I mean, the pottery making class. Oh my God, yes. now That scene could have been in any episode. That could have just been Boimler's going in there for any reason. It didn't have to be in this episode. That's what makes it out of a great moment. It's almost a great scene, but he goes in trying to rope in Rutherford as like a second bridge buddy for for Rutherford and Shax is there too.
00:25:40
Speaker
I mean, we'll do it later in the great lines, but I'm kind of just tempted to just, it's such a brief scene. Just say it. Just say it. No, no, no, no, no. So I just think it's great. You know, Boimler offending him because he's like, what? I only, I learned pottery on Bejor while fighting the Kardashians? No. I just think it's a great moment. It's hilarious. I love Shaxx and. Shaxx is, yeah, I feel like Shaxx just gets better and better each episode. It's the cartoonish.
00:26:09
Speaker
punchline of a dramatic faux pas so it works perfectly for an animated joe um because you could imagine him doing it and then like the live-action version shacks would just leave yeah you know and it'd be really tense but this is you know cartoons it's almost like a musical when something gets so emotional they don't break in the song they break into bits and so Yeah, and that's well put. Yeah, well put, especially in a pottery class that has multiple people in it. Yes, that you were totally right. That wasn't going to be one of my thoughts of like, how many, how many i would have people learn or how many spinning wheels are there? There's like 30 people in that class. So they each have their own station it that' out of control. I mean, and this was a very long warp, it seems. Yes.
00:26:58
Speaker
And then the space battle I thought was very satisfying. like with I mean, all the show obviously, it had to be the packlets once again. Yeah, I already know where you're going with that tone. when You just said yes.
00:27:15
Speaker
But ah yeah, oh and of course, Pac-Man's the ultimate bad guy of lower decks. But ah that that battle was actually really cool and like a really great animation. And of course, I'm probably going to mention this again, you know, but I loved how they use different ah weapons and and how that kind of was animated across the board um with how they were affecting everybody's ship.
00:27:45
Speaker
They didn't use their grapplers from that though we saw them use in season one, but really there's a lot of tracing of the battle between the Kelvin and the Narada in Star Trek 09. There is a lot of visual similarities, the music, whatever, it's fine. It looked cool and I'm it i'm a slut for Star Trek space battles, so I can't.
00:28:05
Speaker
show me when I'm going to take my clothes off for a profit. So anyway. And then I really thought Ma's fight with Dorg, the captain, rate was very satisfying. Very. I mean, you're I actually got nervous for him and he's a character I was just introduced to like 10 minutes ago. It was it was really well done. And then that final blow is very satisfying. And even more satisfying is how the crew reacts to him once once he killed them.
00:28:35
Speaker
I you know I think it is, Katie, we crave justice. Yes. No, I am such a justice porn hog. you Like, I'm just like, give me justice. police you would You know, you it's like having his faith affirmed is is very nice to have, which I think in a lot of ways, that's why Star Trek for so many people, for so many years, has been a beacon, something to aspire to, aspirational. Because even in the world of the show, the characters, no matter how dark it gets, ultimately get rewarded for holding on to adhering to their values. And that ultimately they do, that's a lot of fiction, right? The good guy perseveres. But Star Trek goes a little bit extra. it's like It's not easy to do what you have to do. to do like Doing the right thing is not easy.
00:29:21
Speaker
But if you can persevere, you can achieve it. And even in the Klingon way of like, I have to stand up for, against this injustice and I have to risk my life in order to do it. And then that guy's going to kick the shit out of me. Yeah. and and And the dog that I took care of for like one day also helped out. but um I mean you can also see that in Talin's storyline as well where I mean we have this very 20th century version of like what work means and what passion in work means and I love that Talin's story is that she is very passionate about her work and then she is very passionate about what she wants to study and work on because she feels this innate
00:30:03
Speaker
Sense that this is important and that this will serve a purpose and to see that purpose Fulfill itself within the episode and be directly in the face of somebody saying you need to stop working You need to meditate on this for two days um And her just being like no, I'm not gonna do that. I'd like this is I like this I really like this and I'm getting to a good place with this. It's I don't know, as an actor in Los Angeles and as somebody who has been doing this whole comedy thing and all this stuff for so long. That's the pieces of Star Trek that I'm like, yeah, work doesn't have to be toilsome. It doesn't have to be awful. You can actually enjoy like the stuff that you do and the time that you put into it when it actually comes to fruition and comes to fruition at the right time. It's such a magical thing.
00:30:52
Speaker
Yeah, i you just reminded me, I think the moment with her captain at the end, where she does flip him off, is actually a great moment. It's a great scene, I think. The captain is very reasonable. He's like, OK, yes, you are technically correct. Yeah. But we have a way of doing things. And that has to be exactly, ah you know, and also implicit in that is sort of like you signed up for this. Yeah. Like you you chose to be here. And this is how we do things here. And if you can't conform to that, then we have to deal with that. And this is how we deal with it. What a what a great option to send her to Starfleet because
00:31:32
Speaker
That makes a lot of sense. I love that she's like, why are you punishing me? Yeah, exactly. and Any other great moments?
00:31:43
Speaker
uh you know i'm not gonna lie i really do i love the point where boimler tries to go in to uh hang out with the captain and with mariner and they're just talking about how they're spreading all of their rumors all across the ship and she's like why did you tell Billups that and my cramps for that bad. He doesn't do well with that kind of knowledge I loved it because that also kind of came to fruition like ah a lot of the relationship I feel like between Captain Freeman and Mariner in the these two episodes again the twinning thing um Really comes to a cool moment of like she they'd like spending time together they really are like they fight a lot sure but
00:32:30
Speaker
Well, we'll get into that in the next episode, but they actually enjoy each other's presence as like a mom and daughter. And and she really does like hanging out with her daughter and she but specifically asked for this time during this warp time to hang out with her. I think that's an underrated part of this episode as much as it might be people people's favorites. A favorite episode is like i think that I almost put that as a great moment, but I just liked it in the background where it sort of sat and it and they didn't have to hit it very hard because you get it. and I i need know you see it you know actually think Don Lewis has gotten
00:33:10
Speaker
better as Captain Freeman. Not that she was, i've ah I've said I didn't like Captain Freeman. I didn't say the voice acting went, but I feel like she's gotten, Don Lewis is great. Just saying like, it feels like she's incredible. It's just writing for Captain Freeman hasn't been as. The character is a little wacky, but the point is like, I feel like she is like, if this were a live action show.
00:33:33
Speaker
It's kind of like Patrick Stewart settling into Picard, like he is authoritative and like he's very good actor, but he's not really totally the captain of Picard we know for a little bit. but It takes some time. And it feels like she settled into Captain Freeman in a way. It's like, oh, no, she's owning the role. And this feels like a gear that Dawn Lewis could always do. But now she gets to do it as Captain Freeman. And it's for, you know, I just feel like she was very comfortable, very natural. And she's like she likes being a around Mariner. It's I guess what I'm saying is like it's weird thinking like Tawny Newsom is ostensibly the star of the show. And and there in the moments together, it's like, oh, I'm on I'm on Freeman's side. So, yeah you know what I mean? Like, oh, she's the reason she's the Star Trek captain suddenly that she wasn't in and season one. Right. Let's be honest. it's Right. And as much as you want to say, like, well, that was the point. I'm like, why would you put a clearly incompetent person? I mean, but that that's this point of a lot of different stories so that they can have a character arc. And I feel like you're finally seeing the Freeman that I really enjoy. his well but Yes, I agree. I admit that. But I also think the voice performance, she's such oh she's great the gears, the levers, the levels, if she's like ah at a mixing board, like she's got full control and she's dialing it up and dialing it down.
00:34:53
Speaker
I think these two episodes especially because she gets to be authoritative, but she also gets to be not like sad mom, but like happy mom. Oh, I'm bonding with you and then everything in between I thought was really great. Whilst also being a pretty badass captain. Yes. I think what happened is is in these later episodes, she stopped yelling with such grievance. like she sounds When she's raising her voice, it's much more commanding. when she's it's you know i mean like It was more complainy earlier, and now it's less like that. she's um She's a little less teenager's mom, and now she's a little bit more of a young adult's mom. There's a version of like, I don't have time for this, but I have to deal with this. so And I have to stay here. I can't leave. Right. So I thought that was really nice. But i I agree. I like I didn't you know, the gag where he can't get the door to open up again and they don't notice him in the background. You can have a problem with that. but I mean, it's kind of like it's funny for a minute but about what but it just kind of goes on too long. Right. so I mean, there's a part of me that just like hopes that that he just improvised that. But I'm sure it was fully written out. But I love that. but
00:36:03
Speaker
did It's just so Boimler did a cotton mat. Oh, for sure. No, no, no. It didn't feel like out of place for Boimlers. No. Of course, this is a Boimler joke. it's Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. ah Best Trek Troops. I have a couple.
00:36:18
Speaker
um i I truly love when we have a an issue that is solved with logic and with science and with passion ah for work. So Tlin just being able to be correct in her assumption by putting her scan a little bit further and um and going against the grain of what her orders are. I think that is a really good trek trope because it's it's what the exploration is supposed to be about is like science and passion and curiosity are going to win out in a good way. Yeah, yeah it's kind of like that whole thing of like, well, everything you did was technically
00:37:02
Speaker
Incommission and like whatever, it just wasn't the way we did it. I like that, that's nice. Along those lines, censors. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. That's all the Vulcans said it that way. ah I'm so glad I get to put this as a best trek trope. Warp travel times. The episode is about how long it takes to warp from place to place. Yeah. They forgot about this. Like if nothing else, Lower Decks,
00:37:30
Speaker
vaguely staying like if you think about like pre secret hideout as like the touchstone, they're barely keeping one finger on that stone as they try to reach for whatever nonsense is on the other shelf that I appreciate that that the that's what Star Trek can do. You could do a whole episode about how long it takes to warp from one place to the other and what that means. Does it cause certain stories that have been simmering to come to a weird sort of head? Does it like develop different facets. Here we see a different side of, we don't learn anything new about Boimler. Like this is really not...
00:38:05
Speaker
There's nothing. This is is not really a bummer episode. This is a sick no. Well, I mean, like it's a sitcom premise all the way up and down. Right. Because then he has got a lie about where he's from that he's been in with other people. And it's just like this is all hacky sitcom stuff, which I get it as part of the joke. But and that but then hidden within that is all stuff we're talking about. But I just really like that. That's the spine of a story is this work travel time. And then it's not really worked. Any others for you?
00:38:33
Speaker
um i hey i I love that the it's such a trek trope in that Klingons making fun of just Vulcans in
Honesty and Deception in Starfleet
00:38:45
Speaker
general, and and that they make a really good joke of, um ah oh shit, what's the line? I'll i'll bring it up on the lines section, but yeah.
00:38:56
Speaker
Um, but yeah, no, I just, I love, I love everybody's like assumption. Like there's a, I think we even talked about this as like, sort of like a little bit racismy. Um, just everybody's opinions of like what a lower decks would look like. And then actually getting to see it. I think that's a really cool way of kind of denying those jokes ah and and making it a little bit more of a fully fleshed out story. Yeah. Uh, worst trek tropes.
00:39:27
Speaker
Okay, I'm just not i'm not into Klingons starting a war just for the sake of wanting the glory of war. a i yeah it just it it's It feels tired and especially at this point when they've already got the Federation in their camp. I don't know. I'm just not into Klingons wanting to go behind the back of the Federation to start a war.
00:39:56
Speaker
Well, that's kind of their driving forces. Glorious battle. Sure. Glorious battle. but it But it's like you guys have already connected with the Federation. Like the Klingon wars are long since gone. ah You know, like we've we've had this kind of turmoil. the result Yes. i This is what I'm not criticizing. I'm saying there's always treacherous Klingons, the the peak of them being Duros. Right. Right.
00:40:22
Speaker
I feel like Duros is like a day, you might as well just say Hitler. That's like Duros. I still get bad when I think of Duros. He killed Kilar. Yeah. and Nope.
00:40:35
Speaker
Fuck that guy. Fuck those, that family. All right, that's a good one. I mean, I guess you're putting as a worst trek trope, but it does without it, we wouldn't get. We wouldn't. Very satisfying storyline. We wouldn't. All right. I call out shield percentages. Oh, nice. OK. Referencing Shakespeare.
00:40:57
Speaker
And ordinarily, I mean, that can go either way. The worst trek trips can be best. Best can be worst. Like I had work travel times at best. Usually it's worst because they disregard it. yeah But they're referencing Shakespeare here. But all they're actually really doing is referencing past Star Trek, which is a thing, you know, Lord X does a lot where it's like, OK, that's a placeholder for a joke.
00:41:17
Speaker
But here they're not even, you know, they're just referencing the time the Klingons reference this. which It's like too many degrees of meta and it's just like, uh, whatever. um But I guess because again, this is like either Star Trek for beginners or, you know, just play the hits. Now that's what I call Star Trek volume 47. Those of us that are comedians and loved Next Generation and it's a love letter to Next Generation.
00:41:45
Speaker
I mean, both the Klingons quoting Shakespeare and Star Trek six, you know what I mean? But the Klingon, including Shakespeare and Star Trek six is a way of the Klingons mocking humanity because they think they are superior. So, like,
00:41:59
Speaker
ah Chang's line to Kirk that precedes all the Shakespeare stuff is, you haven't heard Shakespeare until you've heard it in the original Klingon, which is intended to be an offense. like your you know So it's just that's the kind of stuff where I'm like, where are we here? What is the meaning of this beyond a reference? So it's just empty. Anyway, Starfleet officers being bad at their jobs. i think yeah I think the first officer, Commander Ransom, should know where everybody's from. He does the personnel reviews.
00:42:30
Speaker
Uh, but they're willing to undercut the reality to sell the joke of like, Oh, there, everyone's saying they're from Hawaii. And then no, I've been lying this whole time. And even ransom was lying. That's right. That's what I'm saying. It's like, he's even lying and then he, everyone else is lying. Uh, so that was, be i was that that was actually one of my worst trips was, uh, just trying to impress the bridge crew as a lower decker. like I feel like we've kind of at least moved a little bit beyond that in some respects, but... What was missing is why does Boimler need the buddy? Yeah. And that's that shouldn't be... um
00:43:09
Speaker
an obvious thing because it's a long warp trip and nobody wants to be alone. But what he doesn't have enough holodeck credits. You know what I mean? Like, what's he does? There's not a book he doesn't want to read. Maybe he's like, I'm just gonna be alone. And then he can't stand the pressure. I don't know what it like, or there's something with no work to be done. And no work to be done. yes Yeah. And that's got to drive him crazy. So yeah. And then you kind of already touched on this. But monoculturalism, the packlets are all idiots, which is the nice way of saying it. Cause that's certainly not what's going on here. No, I know. I know. But it's so just hard for me. I understand. I understand. hard I'm just going to, this is a way I'll relitigate it. I think you, ah you being in the comedy scene now is not that much different from, I wasn't in the comedy scene, but I was certainly dating and on team dating people and on teams around there around the turn of the century. But even for a long time, I think still now.
00:44:06
Speaker
comedians like making fun, like punching down, like making fun of mentally handicapped people, whatever they like, do it, they like it. There are certain, you know, if you know what a comedian is picture, picture a standup comedian in your head. yeah Most of them are like,
00:44:23
Speaker
ah sad sacks in some way. but So I think there's like self-deprecation to some degree, but into pathetic. And then what that kind of manifests as they're terrible to people, you know, they lash out, they do whatever. Yeah, when it comes to making fun of the other that is, quote unquote, or perceived as lesser than yes as opposed to Hey, stop punching down." um And I agree. i I fully agree that it is pretty uncomfortable how a they have the packlids. It is funny to me that the packlids are the recurring enemy of the Cerritos in general, just because they're such a goofy
00:45:04
Speaker
in general group of people that seem to conglomerate a lot of different tech and a lot of different knowledge. So although they are very much a joke on the mentally disabled as what it seems to be or at least the voice inflection seems to be. What I'm saying is we know this type of, we know the comedy world that's ah that's running the show. And that is what they're doing. That is a unambiguously, they're there they're exercising some demons, some thoughts they've had by channeling it through these characters yeah ah that are canonical. And they're they're saying, we're putting a spin on them by not just making them a punch line, by making them a punch line, but also, also yeah it's having a cake and eating it too. so But it's still kind of the point of what you're saying that
00:45:57
Speaker
all the Klingons are like this, all the Vulcans are like this, all the Paklids are like this. right And if you actually look at it, it's like, no, no, there's some subtlety in the Klingon portrayal, right? Because there's the honorable one, and then there's like, what better, what greater honor is there than the glory of battle, right? It's like, what about doing, Klingons don't have other people fight our own battles, we do our own thing, we don't do this underhanded stuff. right The tension of Vulcan, Volcanity, of like your emotions and the logic, and there is a chain of command, and maybe you're not the type of person that can follow those rules like there's those tensions and then you have the packlets who are the yeah yeah yeah and and it's granted i will say that one of my favorite lines uh in this episode is one of the packlet lines and it is purely based on the inflection of it all but
00:46:53
Speaker
a I do think that they would do well to do something different with the pack lids in the future. It's something else, much like they did with the Klingons and the Vulcans in this episode. I thought they they did really great justice to sort of these turning these stereotypes on its head. ah Most cosplayable character or moment?
00:47:16
Speaker
I'd say everybody running out of the holodecks. Oh, Jesus. Yes. I had that in the great art, actually. I do too. I honestly do too. But like literally everyone. I mean, that was a joke where I'm like, the I wish they had gone farther with that, but it was really funny what they were doing.
00:47:40
Speaker
That was great. That's fair. I also, I really liked Ransom and his moon buddies. Just wear a Hawaiian t-shirt and display that you were born on the moon. Yeah, I think the, what, benzite in the benzite in the Hawaiian shirt is actually a really good cosplay one. Mine was though the Vulcan captain.
00:48:01
Speaker
He had the purple collar and he had the partial goatee. And they look kind of interesting. I thought it was an interesting look. yeah Yeah. I just I just love that like there was like Shakespearean outfit. Yeah, that's right. I'm going to highlight this. Yeah. Let's just talk about that. That was my great art. ah Yeah. Oh, yeah. ah ah You had Ambu Jitsu. You had Renfair people. jim Jet man-havers in a smoking jacket holding a pipe. Yep.
00:48:28
Speaker
Uh, so I dunno, I just thought it looked, it was a green flag of everyone being interrupted from their vacations to go back to work. but ships went red alert I don't know the helm officer's name or the ops officer's name, but she's in, you know, a snowsuit in the cabin. I thought that was great. I just... Yeah. That was fantastic. and ah Meanwhile, Shax is in the back with Pottery all over his hands. That's right. That's right. I think he even has an apron off. That was great. I mean, Generations has, like, the the most ridiculous version of this where they're all still in their ship's clothes, their seafaring clothes. Seafaring clothes, yeah. The stars collapsing. as
00:49:08
Speaker
Yeah. Now it's time for the line was to join here. Great lines. um Okay, so I, I really loved the line that Dr. John I said, but I completely did not write that all down. um um I loved when um they were making fun of the the Vulcans. And um I think it's grec, I believe.
00:49:32
Speaker
ah who says, avoid death and cower. And then they cut to the welcome ship. um I think he also has a line that I put ah here, but Ma says, today will be a day of great honor for me. I am filling in at the helm. ah The honor is palpable.
00:49:48
Speaker
yeah
00:49:51
Speaker
He's about to say that as he walks in the first moment. He says, it's a good day to have honor or something like that. And then he gets cut off by the fight. Yeah, I think so. I also loved when Ma was saying he finally passed the arm.
00:50:11
Speaker
Oh, yes. It was a good passing. Yes. Captain, the leg has been passed. It was an honorable movement. Yes, that's what it was. Yes.
00:50:21
Speaker
the pat I'm not going to lie. I love this. The packlet line. Red alarm. Red alarm. I know. I know the name of the ship is the Packlidship Packlid. It's like we get it, guys. We know what you want to say. We know what you want to say. I know. I know. I know. It's a yeah. ah Yeah.
00:50:44
Speaker
What else do you have? um i Oh, i it was Shaxx's line. um Gosh, my notes are all over the place. Should we just play the scene? Like, I'll just... Yeah, just play it. Is it the bonfire of rage?
00:51:00
Speaker
Yeah, in and put it into the clay.
00:51:06
Speaker
and this This has become a a meme of sorts. Fighting fascism is a full-time job, yeah you know especially given... given the world we're right now. so yeah but yep I liked all the references to Talin being out of line. The Vulcans having this flat voice every time. It's a great running joke. She has lost all control. That is exactly the type of outbursts that she's like not even raised She said I raised her voice and she was like, that is the kind of outbursts. Let's see. When Mariner and Freeman are playing Star Trek Clue, I think it was the chef in the bio lab with the sniper rifle that can shoot through walls. You always pick the chef. Yeah, because we have replicators. Why is there a chef? That's just shady. It's so good. It's so well found in two. And then this is this a line that would have been said on any improv stage of any caliber of improv, which is
00:52:02
Speaker
after everyone's coming clean with their confessions, you have the Benzite in the Hawaiian shirt saying, I'm not from Hawaii either. Yeah, we gathered. It would have been really interesting if you had been, but. I remember the first time I watched this that I was like, Oh, are they okay? So alien life is taking up on earth. All right. Interesting. But then when he says it that way, it's like that makes way more sense and way more funny. Yeah.
00:52:31
Speaker
Uh, now it's time for the line must be drawn here, drawn here. Great art. We've already done it, but I also want to point out, um, I really liked the final fight between the captain and my, uh, the captain because I have a little anime action lines going on too. But like you said, you're kind of holding your breath. You're like, ah, cause he's getting the crap beaten out of him. It was like, how is he going to die? and And and then when he the Klingon, the captain laughs because he's actually been killed and it was good. It was very effective, like very effective. Great art. Yeah. Would this be a fun hollow novel to play out, Katie? Honestly, yeah, I think it would be um because you could jump to different ships and be part of different crews and have different reasoning and logic for each of those. um I agree. It might be on the Borg side, but yeah. great The loading screen.
00:53:24
Speaker
I'm with you, what part of this will you teach at Starfleet Academy? um I didn't know what to put here. I have an answer. Go ahead. The first duty of every Starfleet officer is to the truth, whether it's scientific truth or historical truth or personal truth. It is the guiding principle on which Starfleet is based. And if you can't find it within yourself to stand up and tell the truth about what happened, you don't deserve to wear that uniform. That's my attempt to do Patrick Stewart. No, that was a good one. The reigning Wesley Crusher in the episode, the first duty from the next generation.
00:53:57
Speaker
Because I can't believe that the first officer and many others fucking lie. Yeah, I just think it's that's what they teach just tell the truth. Such hell for nothing. There's no reason. Yeah, just tell the truth. Just tell the truth. The part about ransom who I do like and at times I've pointed out like God's a good first officer i like his energy. It's like that ultimately you don't get to that position because you're You're a piece of shit. And, you know, it's like you're a positive person. So I don't know. I just keep telling the truth. It's better than lying. Yeah. And I and I like I like that. One of the things that like kind of comes to fruition, especially with Boiler's character in this episode, is that he does want to be the hero. He does want to be the good guy. ah He's never really actually been given the opportunity because he's been in such cartoonish situations.
00:54:51
Speaker
And he doesn't really get his little hero moment until the next episode. But I love that he says, I don't want to die having been a liar. And what an honorable thing to say, a, in a moment where they're all about to jump into action and, you know, trying to solve everything that's going on. But also that, like, that Boimler still at his heart is a very honorable character.
00:55:17
Speaker
And they all seem to feel kind of bad about it. Yeah, yeah. Like they realize, like, I understand what motivated me lying, but I feel bad about it. All right, so Trek, Marry, or Kill, Wedge, Doge. This was so hard. Like, I almost want to marry it, but i feel it's just such a solid trek for me. And like, it's one of those, like, if it proposed to me, I would i would be like, you know, you're a good guy.
00:55:44
Speaker
ah but It was what, lacking the danger? No, no, the danger was great. No, I really I do. I really do love this episode. It's not one that I want to replay over and over and over again, um mainly because of the stuff for the pack lids and ah I don't know. And also because the setup, i every time I get this setup that like, oh, we're going to have one of these goofy episodes where we're just going to be cycling through each character and how they react to Boimler, I'm like, ah I don't know if I want to rewatch that. But to Lynn's stuff, my Awe stuff is so good that like, those are the parts that I want to marry. Not necessarily the holodeck stuff.
00:56:31
Speaker
Yeah, I put this is you're kind of bringing up the same issues I had with I excretis, which was an episode I loved on first viewing. And then I'm like to get how we got into that story was such a thud that I was like, I'm not sure it's like a very strong check. But I love that we're this is why it's great to have different points of view at the show. Because I'm like, this is a pretty obvious Mary to me. I knew you would marry this one. Absolutely. It's good. It paid off. I thought the stories the stories aren't well as much as I don't like the Packlids stuff. I was like, I guess given what's going what they are, it makes sense that someone's pulling the strings. But if you're someone who doesn't like devious Klingons, then I think that's that's part of it, too, because it's just like
00:57:16
Speaker
Also, there was that line that was like, what did you do with the nuclear bomb that we gave you before? It was like, oh, we tried to test it out. Like, really? Really? It just is strained a little credibility that a Klingons were freely giving away weapons and they were giving them to the pack lids.
00:57:32
Speaker
Well, I mean, our government does that all the time. Oh, I know. I understand also one to one on these. If you think about like a naval history and like what captains could do on the open seas, broad latitude. And obviously he's working on a hand. it I understand if you don't like it, then that's going to bother you because we've seen it so many times. And it's like, I think the fact that it pays off Ma'a's story so well, though, yeah Like, it's like, how else could you make the point that you're trying to make with these things? Like, Boimler's is so slight, right? Like, I was trying to find a friend, so I lied, and ah temporarily it worked out, and then, oh, it didn't, and then whatever. yeah But this one's about Klingon honor, like someone sticking to their guns, and and I don't know. That's why I kind of thought it all worked.
00:58:17
Speaker
And it is cool that like he at the beginning of the day, he just wants to be going to command. and then he um he can be yeah yeah And then he turns into the captain. it That is really cool. And to Lynn, I feel like similarly, like she just wants to do the work that she's passionate about. And it comes to fruition at the right time. Love that. A little forced for me. a It feels a little convenient. And that and that's why that's why it's a solid trek for me and not quite a marry.
00:58:46
Speaker
All right, we're going to leave it up to the listeners then to break this tie. If it's a Trek or a Merry, those are your two options on offer. We'll be right back with the season two finale of Lower Decks.
00:59:01
Speaker
This is huge. Captain Freeman days only a week away. My decorations have to be the best. Isn't that a craft day for toddlers? Not anymore.
00:59:16
Speaker
first First contact is the season finale of Lower Decks Second Season. It premiered on Paramount Plus October 14th, 2021, written by Mike McMahon, directed by Jason Zurich. Now I'm saying all this like, Lower Decks has ended. We are recording this though before it has formally ended. it It's very close to the end. ah And so I don't know how I'm going to feel between when this episode of Trek Mary Kill actually drops.
00:59:39
Speaker
and and and the end or where we are now, Katie, because ah this is the end of the second season, which in a way feels almost like an eternity ago, but it also is like a way of showing like this ending of the show feels like this show that we're in that we're ending now. Like it seems second season is what I'm trying to say is second season like Next Generation is when the show made the leap into what it is. Right. There's figuring things out halfway through season one. And then this season two kind of leads us into
01:00:13
Speaker
I think like cliff they're able to figure out what their strengths are pretty well here. And you actually care about a lot of the characters. yeah And now watching the season five, you know, they're mixing in some new characters here and there, but also like who we care about our main characters is pretty important. But also, and this episode kind of gets into it, minimizes the Mariner factor.
01:00:37
Speaker
where she is like yeah she's the loudest person on the show in a way but also she's that as interesting as anybody else because I think season one really wrung out the whole mariner storyline so where does she have to go here and I think that's an interesting dilemma that this episode accidentally tangles with or like puts in front of mind. I guess what I'm saying is rewatching this as the series is ending kind of puts it in perspective of like, has Mariner changed much from season two to season five? Well, and they they go very brass tacks with with these analogies in this episode, especially that Rutherford just calls it out at this turning point. Because from season one to season two, even here at the end of season two, they're kind of calling back the season one prop form, right? So even in the show, they're kind of arguing with, has she changed that much, even though we set her on this path to changing? I'm not sure. So I just think it's an interesting question. And then they bring a character fully to fruition that she just improvised in the very first episode. That's right.
01:01:51
Speaker
That's right, Jennifer. Oh, Jennifer. Yeah. So Memory Alpha describes first first contact as, the USS Cerritos is tasked to aid another starship on a first contact mission. What Memory Alpha doesn't mention is that the other starship is the USS Archimedes, captained by Sonja Gomez, who was last seen in Star Trek as the ancient and Anxious Ensign in ah Star Trek the Next Generation. She famously spilled coffee all over Captain Picard in season two's pivotal episode of Queue Who.
01:02:19
Speaker
Also, this is supposed to be Captain Freeman's last mission aboard the Cerritos, and she's been offered a promotion to a better starship because... yeah But of course, we've seen so much but of course the first contact mission doesn't go according to plan when the solar flare obliterates an unstable planetoid in orbit of the first contact planet star. The space rock disables the Archimedes, and it's up to Captain Freeman and the Cerritos to rescue the Archimedes, which they do by stripping the ship's external hull plating so that it can safely navigate an asteroid field blanketed in ionizing radiation. After the rescue, Captain Freeman gets to make first contact in Gomez's place, because the Archimedes is in bad shape. But after returning to the Cerritos to say her goodbyes, following a successful first contact, she's arrested by Starfleet security on the charge of destroying Paklid planet. Dun, dun, dun, to be continued.
01:03:15
Speaker
I want to talk about so Sony Gomez real fast. Lissa Naff, or Leisha Naff, is the actor who plays ah that character, reprising her role, first seen in Q-Hoo and then Samaritan Snare. Those are only two appearances in TNG. g Samaritan Snare was also the episode that introduced us to the pack, voiced the pack lids on us, I guess you could say.
01:03:36
Speaker
But those that last appearance and then this appearance, 32 years apart, it marks the longest time ah between appearances of a character still portrayed by the same actor. The previous record was 28 years and was held by Charlie Brill, plane who played Arne Darvin in The Trouble with Tribbles.
01:03:54
Speaker
that was in December 1967, and then he was in DS9's trials and tribulations in November 1996. It's not quite exactly 29 years, which is why memory alpha says it's 28 years, but it's like 28 and almost 29. I don't know. i like they're they're like They're technically correct, but that's very close to 29 years apart. Anyway, my point is, is like I just pointed out, I thought that was interesting, and I want to point out Leisha Knapp's Wikipedia, because I gave it to you. I was just pulling it up, yeah. This is how the opening little bio folks, when you go to someone's page, this is how it opens. Leisha Knapp, born August 29th, 1962, is an American dancer, actress, and journalist. She is best known as an actress for two episode roles, and since Sony Gomez on Star Trek The Next Generation, kind of a bummer, right?
01:04:45
Speaker
ah and for an appearance as a three-breasted prostitute in total recall. Also bummer. Her journalism career includes early work on the Bill Cosby sexual assault cases story in 2014 with her interview of actress and rape survivor, Barbara Bowman. Can you believe the arc of- One of the things that I really love ah about this show is how they bring ah you know different actors careers back that like maybe did a couple of different spot characters.
01:05:16
Speaker
yeah on next gen or something like that and probably haven't worked in a while. This was the background of an actor I was not expecting. Because it was like, all right, this is one of those actors that like hadn't worked in a hot minute, um had been in a lot of like 80s, 70s type stuff. And ah it is coming back and I was like, oh, yeah, where were they? Like, what was the stuff? And then like seeing that, like,
01:05:43
Speaker
Oh, you're a journalist. Oh, I didn't realize. What did you work on? Oh.
01:05:51
Speaker
In 1989, she was nominated for a daytime Emmy, Outstanding Performer and a Children's Special for the ABC Afterschool Special episode, The Perfect Date. So an accomplished actor, you know, an attractive young actor who ran into the pretty typical, by the way, 80s and 90s was basically she's a Baywatch. And this is the issue.
01:06:15
Speaker
When she played the three-breasted woman in Total Recall. Yeah. That's what every dude in Hollywood fixated on. Yep. And kind of I wouldn't say ruined her life because she's obviously living her life. She's doing great. She's doing well. um But obviously like that's what she was minimized down to. And that's a bummer. So. Yeah. uh yeah star trek that's the thing star trek fans when someone leaves an impression you are you're in you're in you're in and and like ah and and what what a great like way for sci-fi to rejuvenate an actor's career and
01:06:54
Speaker
rejuvenated in a non three bested way i'm sorry because i I completely understand that. ah I remember I was working on a play with Matthew Lillard at one point and Matthew Lillard, as some of you may know from the movie Scream or as he was more commonly known at that time by playing Shaggy in Scooby Doo. And I remember I went up to him and I was like, I just want to say like, I loved the live action Scooby Doos as a kid. Like it was one of my favorites. um So glad to get to work with you and all that. And he was like, thanks, that movie pretty much ruined my career. um He's like, because everyone just thought of him as Shaggy the entire time. And so there was like a couple of even a decade that he could not get work because everyone just thought he was Shaggy and he couldn't be seen as any other kind of actor.
01:07:45
Speaker
So he had to go home and live with his parents and he taught acting for a while until he kind of came back. And I believe it was Descendants and some of the um ah other more recent work that he's been doing, like with Bosch that is using Twin Peaks to return. Yes, The Return. um He was ah the bridge or something. It was a television show, but he's doing a lot more sort of like procedural drama type stuff. um and it was it's It's an interesting thing when you're an actor and you do something so iconically well, but might be a three-breasted character. It might be a cartoon character come to life.
01:08:25
Speaker
You know, it might be so many different things and suddenly your career just dries up because that's all it is now, because that's all people can see you as. And to see this actress turn journalist turned... in many different careers, but like coming back and as a really enjoyable character too. I mean, I think even Captain Freeman says in this episode, like, that's a good captain or like that's a really, and I love how they treat this character in this episode.
01:08:58
Speaker
A little happy ending to the Matthew Lillard story, I think. Yeah. I don't know if you realize this, but since Casey Kasem's death, Matthew lou Lillard is now the voice of Shaggy in all forms. He is. No, he is. And he has been. And he would record that stuff when he was back living in with his ah with his folks.
01:09:16
Speaker
i I think there it's a dual sided thing when it comes to Matthew. It's a total double edged sword. And I think he loves and um kind of hates that character for several reasons, but he does it so well. And, um you know, getting to meet him and work with him just before he started like really getting back into the normal run of acting and appearing in so many different things and being an actual actor and not just known as the guy who played Shaggy. It was interesting. It was an interesting moment in his career to like be like, oh yeah, that can happen at any time. It's a horror story encapsulated in one line, the role you were born to play.
01:10:01
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. ah But enough about that. ah Come on, first first contact, cetacean ops. This is what I was talking about. I'm like, we haven't seen it yet. And I just got mixed up with, I've seen this one and got mixed up again. So this is our first time ever seeing it in Star Trek. It was in the Star of star Trek technical manual.
01:10:24
Speaker
you know, the next generation about the enterprise D, it's an instantiation ops, that's where it's established. It's supposed to help with celestial navigation. Here we go. Our first appearance of them. What are their names? Matulo and Bob? ah Or Matt? Kimolu and Matt. Thank you. There, are sorry. ah So I thought that was cool to have in there. Talk, talk, talk.
01:10:46
Speaker
That was the thing that I couldn't remember. We had seen at least a brief version of them in some episode. And I know we've talked about this before. That's what I'm saying. They reference it. But I don't I think we were already because we don't deal with spoilers. You know, we spoil everything. Everything's open. Yeah, I think we just were.
01:11:06
Speaker
measuring our, you know what I mean? Like, yeah it was in the ether like, well, I've seen this. So it's been in there. It's happened. But this is when it's first shown and they're beluga whales, not dolphins. And I think I had been misremembering them as dolphins. So, or it's always assumed they were. Yeah. I always assumed that they were dolphins as well. And I forgot that they were beluga whales, but I love the way they talk and I love that they are obsessed with Rutherford and saying, Hey, they're looking pretty sweaty.
01:11:32
Speaker
They're very horny, and Mike McMahon was very insistent in one of those interviews I cited. ah that it's can out you know it's That's accurate. It's biologically accurate. Mammals are horny. Yeah, which is probably why I thought they were dolphins. Some other production perspective. Right, because we know the famous stories about but Dolphins being horny, especially with their human teachers or campers, whatever. Some other notes. For a time, this episode was simply listed first contact on Paramount Plus, not first first contact. However, I've checked and I hope that by the time this episode releases, Memory Alpha will have deleted this note because that is no longer the case. I'm just pointing it out. But I thought it was interesting. I always find it funny when the source
01:12:18
Speaker
screws up their own thing. Interesting. so it's That's rare. What happened that I used to enjoy was when Paramount Plus swapped the order of the final episodes of Enterprise, where they really did take, these are the voyages, the actual last episode, and they went, nope, and they moved it back. So the last two episodes were the was the two-parter, because everyone else is like, that's the true ending of Enterprise. And so for a while, Paramount Plus was like, yep, but that's right. I think they switched it back since. But ah so it's just funny to watch brand management happen in real time. Yeah. I thought the Archimedes was simply an Excelsior class, but the bridge design seemed like a sovereign class. So I'm like, all right, the Excelsior is still kicking around, and they look like they have Enterprise-E bridges. But no.
01:13:05
Speaker
It turns out it's actually a new design. It's the Obina class. The class was named after Lower Decks art designer Nala and Obina. So that was cool. I love when they do stuff like that. Yeah.
Easter Eggs and Story Twists
01:13:18
Speaker
Tendi is excited at the prospect of going to the off-limits rubber ducky room, referencing the barely visible rubber ducks included as Easter eggs by Michael Okuda in the master systems display of the Enterprise D and the Cerritos. So I thought that I'd just put that there.
01:13:34
Speaker
i I love how this was another episode that I was like, oh, no, we're going to do ah another one of these sort of like misleading openers, basically, Tendi, thinking that she was going to be deleted off of ah the roster for being in medical and and then we're kind of going back through memory lane of everything and then all and Rutherford.
01:13:57
Speaker
Having having his you know, his optics basically tweaking out on him whilst Whilst ah we don't we don't really know why and we're like, oh he's ignoring this problem So that he can help tend to relive all these memories and I'm just like, oh gosh This is gonna be a whole thing but I love the salt like the the twists on on this episode are so satisfying and so much fun and bring so many more mysteries, especially when it comes to Rutherford. ah Listeners, Katie brings up an excellent point. There's an entire running story thread I didn't mention because I was like, whatever. But Rutherford has all of his memories basically in triplicate, so he never forgets Tendi and it's causing problems with his implants where
01:14:49
Speaker
he's got pop-ups going you're out of hey your phone storage is running out you you can't do any operations like see or walk and which I thought was distracting and that seems like a ah not a elegant design of that particular implant um but yeah it's it's an emotional story as a All these Rutherford storylines do have to be emotional in this specific way, where it's an impediment on some sort of technological thing that he's trying to deal with. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. It's good that you brought up here. Let's get into the grades, though. Great moments. I'm a big fan of ah just Rutherford's whole storyline in this. I thought it was going to be an annoying one, ah especially with all the pop ups and especially because we have a lot of that sort of comedy of errors situation with Tendi and with Rutherford.
01:15:40
Speaker
But it turns out being like really interesting and really sweet. Tendi thinking that she's going to be let go of medical and then realizing that she is doing really well and that they she needs to be a lead science officer and work on the bridge. um I really enjoy the fact that Rutherford is hes his tech His tech is digging out, but it's because he's trying to triplicate all the memories. It's because he cares so much. He cares so much, and he doesn't want to lose the memories, and it's just so sweet. um i I also love the um relationship with Captain Freeman and Mariner, and it seems like it's going to be another Mariner who's going to fight everyone for no reason whatsoever just to be fighting, but then Rutherford shows an amazing line of just like,
01:16:30
Speaker
you know, we need to take the hull of the ship off much s like Meredith needs to you let people in and get closer to her. It was the typical epiphany scene where a disparate thought merges with the so with the solve.
01:16:49
Speaker
And it it was like, it's so on the nose. But I was like,
Character Relationships and Growth
01:16:53
Speaker
I'm glad you're just saying it, because like, at this point, like, you might as well just say the analogy. um Well, and the way Rutherford says a lot of stuff that when he says something emotional, he says it like an engineer. So it actually burns as like,
01:17:07
Speaker
thoughtingly obvious as it is, it actually still winds up being funny but yeah as a joke because it's like, that's so simple. It's always character. It's so scary. And Eugene Cordero just does it so well. um We also get the return of Jennifer. um The ah the ah ah she arrived. No, she's not around. And Dorian and Dorian, the and Dorian um that Tawny Newsom improvised in the very first episode.
01:17:36
Speaker
And we finally actually get a character out of her that we think that Mariner hates her. And turns out Mariner actually really likes her. But she just keeps barking her name. The very funny Lauren Lapkas. The very funny Lauren Lapkas. Not funny in here, but whatever. That's got to build up to that. Yeah. Also, the captain of Gomez, is it?
01:18:04
Speaker
Sonya Gomez, yeah. Sonya Gomez. Sonya Gomez's moment with her own ensign where she trips and, like, I don't know, spills, I guess, her her holodeck pads or something. I'm not sure what it is she has in her hand. And she's saying, that like, i've done I've done a lot of embarrassing things in front of very important people. Don't worry about it. um So beautiful. Yeah, ah I had three.
01:18:32
Speaker
Phillips blow up in Freeman's Ready Room. Yes. So they're all. So, as like you said, Mariner is not doing her normal Mariner stuff, but she kind of is. She really is. She's stowing discontent. She's basically saying, I heard that the captain's leaving, and she hasn't told any of us, and she hasn't planned to for a while. Maybe you should like jump the line and like get in her face. So, ransom and shacks are blown up at her, and then ransom's finding out, you're not taking me with you yeah to your new command, you're not taking any of us, and Phillips the whole time.
01:19:05
Speaker
He's got his hand on his chin and he's staring out the window and then he finally blows up at her. I thought that was great. Paul Scheer. Paul Scheer is hilarious, but he's like such a dweeb and it's like, uh, whatever. But then when he unleashes and he gets really angry, it's always very funny. Yeah. And so I thought it was great.
01:19:25
Speaker
Couple of really interesting Billups moments in this episode too. yeahp He's really good when they're removing the whole plating. yeah He's very like efficient. And that's what that's the thing is like when you you earn a lot of leeway, not just with the animated stuff, but even in strange new worlds, maybe one of these days they'll get around to it. Who knows? When you show people being good at their jobs and competent and real and grounded and seeming like this makes sense then you gain the way of like I see if it's outside of this range of experience and expertise it's crazy town because they don't want to handle it because there's a focus on running the ship or this or that
01:20:02
Speaker
Strange New Worlds, I don't even know how they run the ship most of the time. And Discovery for for most of the time. But Strange New Worlds, everyone seems like, what am I doing again? And they all have like mustaches tattooed on their fingers. And they're doing a lot of those bits instead of running the ship. yeah it's just But here, he gets a moment. But I like that moment, his blow up moment in the ready room. Rutherford pitching the whole plating removal plan. yeah I just liked, what I liked is not specifically what you mentioned where he's tying it into the emotional argument. I liked Freeman.
01:20:37
Speaker
taking the reins. Like once he pitches part of the idea and like Mariner's like, that doesn't make any sense. We need the hole. She's like, that's the outer hole, but the inner hole. And then she becomes the captain. yeah And it's like these two episodes here, it's like, yeah, promote Captain Freeman. yeah She has earned the right to leave. She absolutely has earned the right. And it's also it the comedy of errors stuff that like they assume that she's just going to leave. it It does bother me a little bit because it's just like, come on. guys like why do we yeah it's always we're always hearing half a conversation and making a lot of assumptions and I feel like by now we should know not to do that but at the same time um I love where this led to and I love the reasoning that we got especially because we had a much bigger much more immediate problem to deal with and that like the Cerritos getting together and actually going to work um and everybody going to work I do love that when
01:21:37
Speaker
Captain Freeman is giving the speech that like everybody's got to work around the clock seven hours um to get these whole plates off and we see ah the therapist character with Jetman in the middle of the session session ah But I love at the end, and I wonder if that was like, we need a joke here. And she was like, Oh, in the ballroom but um dancing and the And then the participants like, he just throws this shoe down. Like a read, like a pickup. But I thought I really appreciated it. And like, yes, you are a sitcom. You need a joke at the end. Three serious things and then a joke. that's Oh, yeah. but
01:22:16
Speaker
Oh, yeah. No. And I mean, that's what makes Lower Decks so great. is Like they they kind of like put you fully into an actual Star Trek episode that like would be 100 percent a live action type of episode. But then they also have to be like, but we're also a cartoon so we can have somebody in full ballroom gear and not have it be a thing. I think the whole cetacean ops bit is great, too. Oh, yeah. It's a great moment. Like we go in, we meet them and they have in the argument, and Tendi's like, we are your family, Mariner. Like, shut the fuck up. Yeah. Yeah. And then and everyone goes to do their job, and Boimler gets to be the hero. and Right. Well, and Boimler, obviously, like
01:22:58
Speaker
such an interesting thing after having been on the Titan and then coming um back to the Cerritos and suddenly also wanting to have those brave new world discoveries type stuff. And I'm like, do you do remember what your life was like on the Titan, right? But it's kind of, I feel like this is the point where a lot of the characters get that push that makes their character arcs actually arc.
01:23:26
Speaker
Like, I feel like we're at the crux of the arc of a lot of the characters, aka Freeman, Mariner, Boimler, Brotherford, Tendi, even. Everyone has the stuff within them of being those epic characters that they all wanted to be and they all for sow saw themselves to be, but they didn't have the opportunity or the chance to just get to work and do that. And this is, this is a great episode to show each one of those arcs at their full crux. I think you're right. And you're, you're putting my criticism from before about Mariner's arc to shame here, because where did, where did she end in the first one? She's literally fighting herself and talking about how she can't open up or, you know, allow herself to form relationships with people. And then here we are at the end of season two. And she's like, her friends are telling her where your family
01:24:19
Speaker
Then she goes and rushes off to the bridge to be with her mom and they're all working together. She gets saved by Jennifer, you know, it's like, so it all kind of tracks one to one. It just is very interesting at the same time that she's still doing the same stuff.
01:24:35
Speaker
I will to your point, though, I just want to add, this is a little bit different from the normal sitcom stuff. I didn't have a problem with it. I don't think there's anything wrong with it of like, she didn't mishear anything. She heard the correct information. So she's not making a leap of logic. She's just being like, well, I'm not going to let my mom do it the way she thinks she's going to do it. Right. Because I'm upset that this is what's happening. Right. it's Slightly different than like the normal comedy of errors situation. It is and and it its tracks emotionally. And that's why I'm like, this is immature.
01:25:03
Speaker
but it's like it makes sense of what Mariner's character is. She isn't just about her. 100%. Yeah. Yeah. And she's an instigator when it comes to that stuff. And it does bug me that the entire bridge crew is just like, well, I guess we'll go to warp for your ship or something. It just felt a little bit like, well, come on. I agree. I agree. But that's the sitcom, right? That goes back to the yawning in the conference room. You have to sell the comedic idea behind it.
01:25:32
Speaker
Did you have any other great moments? Oh, I'm sure I do. But I let's get into the other. It's because I can't remember. All right. Best trek tropes. A reference to a character's academy record. It is Captain Freeman mentioning her Hydra Scoot record. First of all, as I said last for the season finale, I love Hydra Scoot. It's such a pleasing word.
01:25:57
Speaker
So, and I just love, you know, I have the hydro scooting record, you know, Captain Picard had a record from his Academy days. Everyone has these like Academy records or whatever Mark. So I like when those get brought back and that it was hydro scooting, extra special.
01:26:13
Speaker
It's like their track and field. Yes, exactly. It's just competitive water skiing. yeah on Jet skiing. It's competitive jet skiing. I love, as I've said many, many times before, I love solving things in a science-y way. um I love the fact that it was a plasma blast that was random, they weren't expecting, and if they were to try and use a tractor beam, it would then link onto theirs and it would down their own power.
01:26:42
Speaker
um I love setting them up into a situation that they don't even know how to get out of. And they have to discover through working with each other how to be able to solve this problem and how to kind of science their way out of it. And I love how they MacGyver all of this stuff in order to get to the right, I mean, they go through a literal minefield of hell on earth.
01:27:06
Speaker
Yeah. And this is all just for our first contact where they were expecting sickbay to be filled with people drunk off their asses. Right. And I like the the deputy is the Archimedes, which is power, you know, dead in the water, but also spiraling towards this planet is spiraling at such an incredible speed that once it collides with the atmosphere it will be catastrophic to the planet. So first contact will be, you know, annihilation. Yeah. So I thought that ah you're right. That's a great solve. Just this this science fiction. You're like, I like when they science a problem, they science fiction a problem. Yeah, well, yeah, they I mean, you know, they come up with their own reasoning. And yes, that's in universe. Yes, in universe. But it's also it's also very plausible. And I love I love the moment where ah Freeman is like, how do how do we solve this? And Mariner is like, I, I don't know. And
Heroic Moments and Resolutions
01:27:59
Speaker
that's such a it's such a grounding moment, especially for a cartoon.
01:28:04
Speaker
Boimler says, I saw a koala after your death experience. yeahp You know I had that on the greatest lines. Another best trick trope. It's the Enterprise, but in this case, it's the Cerritos when they're being rescued. yes You know, your hero ship and someone exclaiming upon its arrival is always exciting. ah And that was a time where I'm like, great, this is deserved. The Cerritos really, really stepped up to come rescue the Archimedes. That was pretty cool.
01:28:32
Speaker
I have one more, do you have any more ah best trick tropes? Not that I've written out. Alright, so I had, usually this is a worst trick trope, but just like with the last episode, I'm moving a worst into a best for this episode. Love it. It's a secret hideout trope.
01:28:49
Speaker
cannibalizing the ship i think i was talking about this last month it's so weird how all these new shows the solve is like if we pull parts from the hole right right we can figure it out they do this on discovery a lot they they even did it uh the crossover episode of those little sciences that's right that's right that's exactly right oh my god no you're totally right discovery ah Where they usually only have five minutes to conceal your implement the plan here it's given like a proper wait in time kind of like the work travel like they have time as a meaningful effect on the story to show the crew working together the hazards oh it's broke so now you have to go underwater to do it and like
01:29:29
Speaker
It's not the it's not just and then and then and then it's explained. However, Katie, I have discovered that Mike McMahon wasn't even thinking about that. It wasn't from the same database of all the ideas they're allowed to do. but Like these are the approved network ideas that we're allowed to have, which is what I mocked them for. That's not the case.
01:29:48
Speaker
Like I'm getting sent to Star Trek dot.com all the way back in 2021. That's based on one of my favorite Star Trek Enterprise episodes, which is the minefield episode, where debris gets stuck on the hull plating, but doing it to the whole ship. I was like, nobody's ever done our girl the Cerritos that wrong before on a Star Trek. In the movies, they crash them, but nobody's ever had to strip the ship.
01:30:10
Speaker
It's true and and it's ah it's a great solve for basically giving the ship a nice new look in the new season. So maybe it's a great trek trope because they were relying on the greatest area of star trek as the inspiration. All right, where's trek tropes?
01:30:30
Speaker
Um, how for which actually actually three. Oh, let's let's hear what it was. Cause mine is mostly like, it it feels like a lower deck tropes. Uh, these are secret hideout ones. I don't like the slogan earring that's going on. We are Starfleet and Cerritos strong. I understand that's all born of.
01:30:50
Speaker
pra culture I guess something strong. You're this strong. I'm country strong. I'm this strong. Cerritos strong. We are Starfleet. We are this. We are that. ah
Classism and Hierarchy in Starfleet
01:30:59
Speaker
Would you rather they just say like, we say well, I think it was just.
01:31:05
Speaker
No, I think it's just the spirit of the the spirit of camaraderie and participation. I understand that people today need to identify it, but everyone on that ship is there for a mission. You know, usually it used to be like you're the finest crew in the fleet or whatever, you know, or here she's like, ah we've been through, we've been through worse. And I know we can get through this even though this is pretty bad. or This is pretty bad, but we get through it. you know um the archimedes all All you need to think about is that the Archimedes needs us. Something like that, instead of just resorting to slogans is what yeah I think I'd model. Yeah, I would agree with that. Even from the animation standpoint. Yeah, they have the stake the stakes are there, and they didn't need a slogan in order to to rally the troops. But um yeah, no, I get that. I get that.
01:31:50
Speaker
Oh, that's a better trope. Rowing the troops through Pablum. Yeah. Who gives a shit? ah Classism. and I need to apologize a little bit. I've been a little too hard on Lower Decks insistence that there is a class system, not just for starships, but like you are a like defining your morals and ethics or like how people perceive you by what class of starship you're on. I think I think it makes actually a lot of sense in the imaginary future.
01:32:17
Speaker
I think I just resent that how frequently they dip into that well here. like there We're seeing it from the bitter side. But if you think I guess if I think about it for more than five minutes, you know Captain Picard switches off the view screen talking to some freighter captain or a captain of a not the flagship. And they're like, why is Picard the captain of that ship? You know what I mean? like You can easily imagine the the pettiness yeah or the or the Classism. Classism or just, you know, people having a ship on their shoulder, of resentment. Right. You can easily picture that. So I guess I'm actually doing that to be a little bit of a stinker here. So it's a worse trek trope because they go to it so often. And yet why is there a captain's yacht on a California class ship?
01:33:03
Speaker
Because it's better than an escape pod. I don't know. and So I don't know. It just seems like the captain's out would be reserved for the galaxy class or the sovereign class. You know, the the actual flagship type vessels, not for some basically a tugboat, which is effectively what the Cerritos is. Right. So I don't know. That's all. That was not an inconsistency. I'm just pointing out it's a worst class trek trope because you're not even fully committed to the bit. Sure. You know, sure.
Critique of Episode's Easter Eggs
01:33:31
Speaker
ah rotten Easter eggs this is my last one o I don't want a whole new this is my way of not even cleverly, just calling out some Easter eggs, sometimes they stink. I don't want a whole new captain. we can end This is Mariner complaining about Freeman leaving. We could end up with some weirdo with a writing crop. That is an oblique reference to Captain Stiles in Star Trek III, Captain the Excelsior. But guess what, folks? Decades after the film's release, the Inglorious Chexferts podcast got to the bottom of this.
01:34:02
Speaker
Accidentally, they were doing a retrospective because Star Trek three was 40 years old as of last year. And so they're interviewing people still involved with it. It turns out Captain Styles did not have a writing crop or a swagger stick. Whatever had been known as for 39 years. It turns out there is a deleted scene which would have shown him playing golf putting his quarters. It's a.
01:34:28
Speaker
Cut. Holy shit. Really? Interesting. So this isn't a rotten Easter egg in so far as like, that's like ah a lame thing. It's actually wrong. Your Easter egg is spoiled. So I'm going to put it as a word stretch joke because Lower Decks always rides the line anyway of being like putting in a reference in place of a joke. And this is just one. The deepest cut was still not deep enough.
01:34:54
Speaker
Oh, I know. It's another one of those that I like. I almost wonder if Toni Newsom actually just came up with on the spot. And who knows? Who knows? Because she is very well versed on her her trek. I know. And that's what I'm saying. The common knowledge of 2020, 2021 was that that was riding crop, you know, Picard road road as well. But usually when people mention
Comedic Highlights and Animation Quality
01:35:19
Speaker
Picard and the horse riding, they think of a saddle because he makes such of ah a big deal of it in Starship.
01:35:24
Speaker
down Is it Starship Down or Starship Mine? Shit. I should know this. I think there is both. That's the problem. Starship Down I think is Deep Space Nine and Starship Mine is TMG. There we go. um So anyway, I had to clear that up. I love that you went on the dive. All right. Most cosplayable character or moment?
01:35:47
Speaker
Um, I love, I don't remember the name of the people, but the, the, the planet, um, that we're like, sort of like the leperians, the periods. Yes. I thought there would be a a really fun one. Um, I also, honestly, um, but the, the whales, I think would be a fun one, especially if you could get, um, sort of like a beluga head and, um, just the, um, the uniform on top.
01:36:17
Speaker
Yeah. Do they, they've got to sell those as plushies. They might. imagine moopsy moops and I the Cetacean Ops. I know Moopsie is. Yeah. There has to be. Cetacean, it has to be. I don't. i Yours is the correct answer. Can I, my honor will mention, are the whole fragments.
01:36:36
Speaker
Oh, these Doritos whole plating. OK, yeah, that's a good one. I like that a lot. Because you could have a big piece, you know, you can have a big body piece, leg pieces. And then you could have that like that weird like keg thing that you have to like twist and then. That's right. That's right. In your stomach, you have the cylinder come out, the twist, which is from first contact, but whatever.
01:37:02
Speaker
But you know Mike McMahon was very clear. Actually, he's very wise in this, where anytime the animators had a question, it's like, guys, don't don't overthink this. Just watch this. Here it is. like Just trace this, whatever. Makes perfect sense to all the ah the design languages right there. So that was pretty cool.
01:37:18
Speaker
Now it's time for the lines to join here. Great lines. Boimler, Captain Freeman Day is only a week away. My decorations have to be the best. yeah Rutherford, isn't that a crafty for toddlers? Boimler, not anymore. um And then him asking the cetacean officers what they're going to be doing for Captain Freeman Day. They're like, that's for cabs. Yeah, that's cute.
01:37:42
Speaker
I also like that bit where they're like, well, can't they swim down and do it? And then they go, sound like dolphins. So I understand why everybody kind of thinks that they're dolphins, but they are blue the wheels.
01:38:02
Speaker
Um, ah canonically they're beluga whale. yeah oh okay um What was it? It was ah obviously Bournemouth's name. I saw a koala. Yeah, it's best not to talk about that. In that he swallowed beluga whale piss. Oh yeah.
01:38:29
Speaker
um Rutherford's line of ah comparing their situation, how they had to solve it, in comparison to Mariner having to take off her her shielding and stop fighting with people and let people in. Great. Now it's time for the line must be drawn here. Great art.
01:38:48
Speaker
This had so much good art in it. um I loved the, it was almost like they meant this shot just for us in this moment, but it was the shot where the the hole was finally completely off and it was just the stripped version of the Cerritos. I thought that was such a beautiful thing, especially with like the sun in the background, and the plasma sparks and all of the debris setting in front of them.
01:39:15
Speaker
That was really gorgeous. And then also going through the debris field um was really cool. Both of these episodes, I mean, this whole season, I think the animation is even better than season one. And season one
Holodeck Experiences and Starfleet Academy
01:39:28
Speaker
had a lot of really good stuff in there. um But the space stuff all looks really, you know, it's still cartoon, but it still is exciting. and It works really well. Would this be a fun hollow novel to play out, Katie Hampton?
01:39:41
Speaker
I feel like it would be a stressful one. ah That's for sure, especially if it was navigating through that field um or trying to save a planet before first contact from a ship giving their impending doom. Yeah, I'm not I'm not a fan of let's hang on to the sides of the walls where the U-screen used to be and just stare out looking for any stray rocks. That seems Stupid. Right. Or or or the um let's go for a spacewalk while we're taking off the hole. And exactly. Yeah. but but Let's ex expose these in the cells, the space. I don't know. it Seems Jeopardy. I still put yes, because actually that would be kind of kind of cool, especially with the safeties on. Yeah. So.
01:40:26
Speaker
Oh, I mean, but then, you know, Boimler, his suit rips and then he yeah experiences drowning, one of the most horrible deaths a human being can have. so You know, and then his his helmet starts to fill up and that's also a really beautiful shot of of him just ripping the helmet off and trying to get out. What part of this will he teach at Starfleet Academy?
01:40:49
Speaker
proper etiquette of leaving ships or or asking where you're going to be transferred to. I feel like just movement of ah protocol lines in the same line because he says this. She says they said don't get too attached to your ship. Right. So I assume that's where she learned from was the Academy yeah was that you'll move around. Yeah. Even if you're on the captain track.
01:41:15
Speaker
you know, you're not going to become the captain of the ship you're an Ensign on, which would be an interesting story. I'm sure that that's happened before. And I
Season Finale Reflections and Future Expectations
01:41:23
Speaker
bet it would be something for Ransom to listen to you a couple of times over. Yeah, I remember um trying to pitch in vain. But like, if they were this is before Star Trek Picard ever became a thing. But like trying to pitch after Logan, my friend was like, you should try to pitch a Logan story for Picard. And now I was like, oh, the last Picard because he is the last Picard. But then like what reunites them? And it was like, well, maybe Geordi's the first ever captain of a ship that he built. You know, like he's the that's cool. That was as close like a thing. Like it's so rare. But like the idea in Starfleet ships get destroyed all the time. People get transferred. Like your missions are very long. And then when you're you're done, maybe you're out of the service. So just don't get too attached to your ship. I think it's a good
01:42:10
Speaker
Uh, it's a really good Starfleet Academy idea actually, uh, it just to show that things are constantly changing. I think change and adaptability has to be a very big part of the curriculum there. All right. We've gone very long here. Trek Mary or kill.
01:42:25
Speaker
Uh, the first, first contact. I'll marry this one. I straight up married this one. I know, I know, I knew you were going to be mad about me saying this. I'm not mad! I just thought we're, this is so funny, we're on the other side of this. We're on the ah opposite ends. You're gonna, you're gonna kill this one? No, I'm gonna trek it. Okay, okay. we're on We're on either side of the fence, I guess. Yeah, no, I'm gonna trek it. For sure. All right, very great. Uh, what, what did you respond to the most about it? That was like, this, this is one.
01:42:52
Speaker
it was it It was just like we have these stereotypical starts to everybody's storyline in the beginning of this episode and it's all petty and in annoying, but then by the end of it, it's everybody working together. It's it's even Boimler changing the sign from happy like Happy Freeman's Day to Happy First Contact. First Contact, yeah.
01:43:14
Speaker
um You know, like, everyone actually travels through their arc and starts on the path into the newer season, I feel like, with a little bit more magnitude. And even with Freeman getting um arrested at the end of the episode and, like, you know that she's, like, not going to be told the same thing that she thinks she's going to be told, like, oh, I'm i'm going to deny this promotion. And you're like, that's not what they're here to say, or is it? And they slap the cuffs on her. And then walking out with everybody watching is it is interesting. It's really cool. And I feel like that sets up a lot of really interesting stuff with everyone, especially Rutherford when he finally sees, oh, his implant wasn't put in because he wanted it. Interesting. Ooh, what's that story like? That's right. We get a lot in the last five minutes or so. We really do. Yeah. um That was all right. So we're going to have two episodes up for votes.
01:44:11
Speaker
Trek or Merry are your options for either one. um And that's going to wrap up season two of Lower Decks. An interesting point that the premise of the show, you know, they're the second contact people. Freeman wins and gets the first contact at the end. So a lot of things have been in motion. It's been great. I usually like to do a season recap, like how many treks, marries and kills, but we have a couple that are outstanding for votes now. But overall, I think we'd agree a very successful season of the show from very start to finish. And last, I think season one, I was kind of like,
01:44:41
Speaker
you are on The fences yeah first half is one second half was better. This one all the way through, you know, had ups and downs. The downs are very minimal. The highs are very great. ah All right. So when we come back next time, it's going to be kicking off season three. We'll see what happens with this whole blowing up and pack lead planet thing. We're going to to you in the meantime, Katie.
01:45:02
Speaker
You can always check me out at the
Podcast Promotions and Engagement
01:45:04
Speaker
Napping Through Happy Hour podcast. You can find that on all ways you get your podcasts. You can also come and see me live if you are in the Los Angeles area with faux pas at the PAC theater. We take your embarrassing stories and we make them worse. Um, but and you can always just follow me at, at L Sassy Pants, E L S A S S Y P A N T S. All right. We're Trek Mary K Pod on social media, trekmarykillpod dot.com on the web. You can see all the standings, treks, marries and kills there.
01:45:32
Speaker
and