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Star Trek Discovery Discussion: New Eden
36 Plays2 years ago
Sean from Trek on the Tube and I go over our thoughts and ratings for the latest episode of Star Trek Discovery, "New Eden" Directed by Jonathan Frakes and while we don't always agree, we found some nice middle ground on this one. What do you think of this exciting episode of Star Trek Discovery?
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Transcript
Opening & Star Wars Enthusiasm
00:00:01
Speaker
Castas We're back on another exciting episode of starfish where we have a casual and informal conversation about Star Trek. Didn't you want to talk so you signaled? Look what I'm wearing. Oh my god
00:00:16
Speaker
I've got a good feeling about this. I've got a good feeling about this. I really do. I really do. Oh my god. Oh my god. The irony. The irony. Right? For that shot. And I, the reason I have a good feeling about that is because you kind of prompted me. I do enjoy, I do enjoy the fact that Chewie is Cinta.
Weather Disruptions & Chewbacca's Role
00:00:35
Speaker
Hello. I, I met, can you hear me? Yes, you cut out before taking me.
00:00:43
Speaker
It's going to happen. We have a rainstorm in Miami right now happening. Oh, no. Oh, so the communications, not a hurricane. Yes. I was saying that I enjoyed the fact. I enjoyed the fact Chewie is center on the T-shirt. I was on the on the Twitter. I like that. Oh, yeah. I think that's pretty awesome. It's pretty cool. And he is, in fact, a central figure in the film. And we learned so much about
00:01:12
Speaker
The last time we saw Chewie, he was ushering poor Yoda to save him. Chewie saved Yoda. Very epic. Do you know the actor who plays Chewbacca? No, but have they changed the actors? It's still the same actor.
00:01:37
Speaker
So I think Kenny, not Kenny, oh my gosh, Kenny Baker's the opposite of Chewbacca. What is the name of the original actor? I'm having a Starfleet boy. Robert De Niro, I bet. So I'm going to ask Siri. Let's see if Siri understands. Robert De Niro played Chewbacca, that's for sure. Hey, Siri, who played Chewbacca? I'm sorry, I don't have
00:02:04
Speaker
It didn't work. It's still working. Where am I working?
Star Trek History & Theories
00:02:10
Speaker
Before we go right into the discussion here, we should probably do the summary, which you volunteered to do. So I'm actually very happy about that. Bravo. Bravo, Mr. Bravo, number one. I did not volunteer.
00:02:25
Speaker
I started explaining my day yesterday and now it's canon. As I was saying, we had a bit of a Star Trek day yesterday.
00:02:41
Speaker
today, but my wife and I, we both watched First Contact and Suffer Discovery season two, episode two, New Eden. And it was fun because though we've never seen World War Three on screen, both the episode and the movie tie into the events of World War Three and the infamous date of 2053. So I thought it was fun.
00:03:04
Speaker
I have a feeling you know a lot about this part of Trek history or Trek lore or whatever. So I'd love to hear your thoughts on that during our full discussion. But I just want to say that that's a delightful pairing like you guys picked. It is. It really works. It like really that's actually like a really awesome pairing. So I'm impressed. I'm impressed. I think maybe the Red Angel has something to do with the coincidence then.
00:03:31
Speaker
I thought we were calling it Mother Burnham. Mother Burnham. Yeah, well, I'm leading theories that it's an Iconium. But I mean, well, I kind of like that. I don't know if it's a leading theory, but I could. This could be like seven years from now when the show ends, but maybe it'll be revealed. I'm what I don't need this mystery solved like right away. Well, I mean, this is discovery talking about for we know it could be just a Klingon. Right. What does that mean?
00:03:58
Speaker
I mean, anything's a Klingon now. Just stop. Stop making fun of me. Just because I didn't understand that that alien was not a Klingon. I didn't think of that at all. I wasn't making fun of you. I thought you were making fun of me. No, not at all. That's a jazz. I didn't do that. No. OK, you want the episode summary? Yes.
00:04:24
Speaker
I suppose if I am some sort of co-host now, I need to dig these more often, right? Yes, excellent. Excellent. So in this episode, it mirrors some sort of old school trick and some classic Star Trek. And I think a lot of people saw that because it is very much the exploration and discovery of an unusual world
00:04:50
Speaker
with an away team, and there's also a very A-plot, B-plot structure. There's a subplot going on and a main
Spock and the Red Angel Speculations
00:04:59
Speaker
plot. The episode starts off with Burnham talking to Pike about recording the message that Spock left.
00:05:11
Speaker
So it picks up on his iPad, on his box iPad, on his magic kind of, what's it? I don't know. It's a Yu-Gi-Oh! iPad because he can, you know, make dragons appear on stuff anyway.
00:05:26
Speaker
I have a crazy Spock theory. I think it's way too crazy to just interrupt your summary for it, but I just wanted to, in case you remember later on, I'll tell you my crazy Spock. Spock and Burnham had a child and that's the Red Angel. Okay. Alex Fertman said no. No more discussion. No discussion. Discussion over.
00:05:53
Speaker
Okay, the vitamin pica talking about spots recording, um Then they go on and kind of talk about how the closest read burst is a beta quadrant reversal beta quadrant is Some of the Federation the United Federation of Planets spreads into both the alpha and the beta quadrant, but not very far
Crew's Mission & Faith vs Science
00:06:15
Speaker
And so the closest rate burst is in the Beta Quadrant, but very far away. And so they used the spore drive to go there. They jumped to the, well, to where it is, essentially, where it was. And they find an M-class planet on which there are humans, a human colony, a pre-warp human colony. They shouldn't be there at all. So they send an away team down. Pike, Burnham, and I've noted her name. Oversicken. That's it, Oversicken.
00:06:44
Speaker
Oh, I wrote, I wrote it the way. No, it's, it's a Woshukun. Okay. I don't know. I wrote it down. You know, it's a, let's say it for a second. Hold on. So let me get it right. You gotta say it more, more like kind. Ready? A Woshukun.
00:07:11
Speaker
Hey, I can't be kind, but whatever. Don't have a complex on the show. It is. It is. It is very great to see this bridge officer.
00:07:23
Speaker
be selected to go down on the surface of the planet and be part of the away team. Because it is logical that the bridge officers are the ones with the most kind of experience, the most competent people on the ship. That's why it's always the bridge officers that lead the away teams in the other shows. So it was nice to see her go on the planet. Essentially, it's explained on the planet that the Red Angel that we've been seeing and hearing so much about is the being or the entity.
00:07:53
Speaker
that brought these guys to the planet so many years ago during World War III. So during the final events of World War III in 2053, they were all taken to the planet. At that point, nothing much more happens on the planet except there's kind of a confrontation between science and faith.
00:08:16
Speaker
Um, where people, some people on the planet, you know, just, um, believe in divine intervention. And I suppose. I wouldn't say that they close minded to think about anything else. I think that they just, they accept, uh, the events as they happened and, um, others are more confused in search for more, uh, scientific explanation to what happened. Um, and we have this one guy, I figured Jacob.
00:08:46
Speaker
One character, Jacob, interacts with Pike, talks about how he thinks that Pike and Burnham are from outer space, and they end the episode by exchanging a power cell for camera footage.
00:09:05
Speaker
that will help them uncover more mysteries about the Red Angel. There's also a subplot which involves Tilly. Tilly is trying to figure out more things and trying to understand how the space rock works because she wants to save or help Stamets.
00:09:22
Speaker
She starts hallucinating a very obviously fake person, a very obviously not prison person, which is then revealed to be dead later on. We could call her a ghost. I don't think so. I think she's the green spore. I think she's the green spore that ended her.
00:09:43
Speaker
the the
00:10:01
Speaker
a winter catastrophic event on the planet and so Saru gives the order to save the planet and they save the planet by using the rock the space rock that they that they got on the last episode so that's a lot of coincidences which i don't think are coincidences i mean they went to a destroyed asteroid got a rock that has no other utility except saving this planet and specifically they'd go to this planet at this moment
00:10:26
Speaker
Everything is connected with the Red Angels, I think, yeah. But then, I mean, why doesn't the Red Angel just save these people themselves?
Character Development & Storytelling Themes
00:10:34
Speaker
Maybe this is how... But then we haven't seen the rest. We haven't seen the rest yet. Maybe this is how the Red Angel did save these people. I mean, Jacob... Maybe, maybe. Divine intervention. If we were to talk about divine intervention on Earth, right, if you were to talk to someone that has faith and that believes in God and talks about divine intervention, you will most certainly
00:10:55
Speaker
notice that divine adventure is never direct. They'll always talk about how things are done for a reason and you have to go through this challenge or this adventure or this whatever to get to this point, right? And so it could be similar. Maybe this entity could have saved the people on the planet, but maybe it was important that it rather be someone from Starfleet that do this and that go through this journey. So there you go, that's the episode.
00:11:23
Speaker
very good summary that was i i i think i had different expectations what you thought you thought i was going to do a shit summary is that what you're saying what i thought you were going to do like a just a different summary let's just say it's different a different you can say shit the tone no is the tone that i thought was going to be different oh you thought it was going to be a hateful summary an angry summary
00:11:51
Speaker
I did and your summary was super engaging and it was like it was like spot on with all the facts like I can't tell you anything to add to it. There's one line of dialogue in my rewatch so it's important to watch these episodes twice guys because you always miss something. You're gonna do it anyways don't even just don't even just read but do it more consciously the second time. The second rewatch enabled me to hear one line which changed my perspective on the episode and how it was written.
00:12:20
Speaker
Oh, my God, that's so meta. It is. It really is. Right. I got very frustrated the first time around because I dislike I think that the idea of putting faith against science, I think it's old. I think it's old fashioned and I think it's been done too much. And I think we've come to a point in society where we realize that a lot of our top scientists do have faith.
00:12:51
Speaker
And I think that we should, I mean, the long old debate about science versus faith is stupid and dumb, and I think it shouldn't be done anymore because, you know, both help each other. You can use science to explain faith, and sometimes you need faith to, you know, apply your science.
00:13:11
Speaker
And so I thought that it was stupid that they were putting these things in such contrast and I thought it was short-sighted of the writers. But when I re-watched the episode, Pike says that his father was both a scientist, he taught science and
00:13:29
Speaker
He also, he didn't teach, but he was all also about various religions, et cetera. And at first I thought that the first time I heard it, I thought he said his mother and his father and they were contraries again, but they weren't. It was his father doing both. And just the fact that his father was both open to science and religion. That meant to me that the writers understood my point of view.
00:13:53
Speaker
And that they were creating this conflict in the episode for the point of the episode, not because it was how they felt. Does that make sense? Yeah, actually, it's very deep. Okay. Yeah, totally. That's actually amazing. Yeah.
00:14:11
Speaker
I totally caught on to that and I also caught on in that scene like what really got my attention if we're gonna break it down to that scene a little more is like I was very curious why Burnham didn't tell Pike the first time I saw it about her
00:14:27
Speaker
experience. But that is it's not on TV. It's also very Star Trek, because you'll notice that every time something freaky happens to someone on a Star Trek on a Starfleet ship, they never talk about it. But you're in space and freaky things happen literally every week. So you should be
00:14:46
Speaker
But then it's not a discovery problem. That's just a static in general. It's you need to create drama. Yeah, it's a genuine human problem. It's relatable. You know what I mean? Like if a red angel of death appeared to you and no one else saw it, just like you're sitting it, you're sitting in your living room with your wife and your beautiful baby on the tube.
00:15:05
Speaker
and you're watching tv and then all of a sudden this like crazy winged thing you like lose your vision you get it gets blurry you're kind of unconscious and this crazy like thing appears and your wife's like what happened what's wrong and you're like did you not see the thing and they're like no you know what happens then you're gonna think you're nuts
00:15:27
Speaker
Well, I think I'm in a comfortable relationship with my wife, which means I would tell her. But that's not where Burnham's at. That's not where Burnham's at. She's in a comfortable relationship with no one because she's not. No, you're so terrible. She has her relationship with Serik is getting better. She's finding her way. No one has a good relationship with Serik. He's annoying.
00:15:49
Speaker
I think she and Tillie are best buds. But Tillie's off hallucinating, so she doesn't have time. They're both actually hallucinating. I think that's an interesting coincidence, perhaps. But the difference is Burnham is not hallucinating. She's seeing things that are real. Right? Because if you can, essentially the camera footage capturing the red angel confirms it's not a hallucination.
00:16:14
Speaker
If you can capture it on a camera, then it, you know, that's true. It's real, right? Right. So she isn't hallucinating till he is.
00:16:24
Speaker
The whole episode felt like I was watching a movie, actually. That's what I loved. You know, it's amazing, too. It was so jam packed with stuff. And first contact were directed by Jonathan Frakes.
Visuals, Direction, and Acting
00:16:35
Speaker
Yes, we have to give Jonathan Frakes. I had a lot of Jonathan Frakes in the same day, right? And I actually noticed some directing similarities. He has these dramatic zooms on like with shaky cam on the on the bridge officers. And he did the same thing.
00:16:52
Speaker
in first contact as he did in this episode. Oh cool. So yeah. I posted some of my favorite, whoever was the cinematographer working with Jonathan Frakes, I think that's a great combination because on my subsequent watching I saw so many beautiful shots. I was very, I have to say it was like, and that was a win for the episode.
00:17:16
Speaker
I would say this feel a bit Walking Dead when they put on their civilian clothing and then beam down to the next, like next to the church. It felt a bit like the recent Walking Dead episodes, The Kingdom. I don't watch The Walking Dead and I feel bad about it because- No, it's fine. It's fine. Are you willing to watch a show and then quit it?
00:17:36
Speaker
at a certain point are you can you do that are you capable of doing that i just don't like zombies they scare the living crap out of me and i feel like i feel very i feel very crazy when i watch
00:17:53
Speaker
Okay, I've heard that but quite a lot of people don't watch The Walking Dead because of the zombies guy. They aren't the main focus. The scary people are the humans. That's the whole deal. It's all about how humans are worse than zombies, right?
00:18:08
Speaker
But I would like you to do for me what I would like you to do for me and perhaps our audience would be interested is if on the from the top of your head, if you could think of like the best Seneca Martin Green episode, then I'll go watch that episode and see if I love it. If I do, I'll go back and start watching the show. That's your challenge. That's your challenge. Audience problem is Seneca Martin Green and The Walking Dead is about as present as
00:18:40
Speaker
Whatever the case is, I just want to see her best episode. Do you want to see the episode? If I'm going to watch Zombies, it's got to be the best episode of Seneca Martin Green, because it's the only tie-in I have to Star Trek. So it'll be worth it to watch the episode. That's it.
00:19:01
Speaker
I'll tell you what, they recently did an episode where Rick Grimes, protagonist of The Walking Dead, he's near death and he's hallucinating and so they bring back a lot of old cast members and have them talk to him, right? Because he's hallucinating, he's hallucinating, there we go, tied in. And so he sees John Bernthal,
00:19:24
Speaker
guy who's doing the Punisher right now. He sees a lot of people from the older seasons and he sees Seneca Martin-Green and it's funny because she doesn't play Sasha at all. She plays Michael Burnham in The Walking Dead. It was like literally just Burnham talking to Rick Grimes. You're saying that perhaps Seneca Martin-Green is like one of those actresses or actors, I think is the proper term.
00:19:50
Speaker
who don't really they're they're like so real they're just playing themselves in every part like that's who that they're just playing themselves right i think honestly in the walking dead everyone kind of plays themselves but just in the context of a zombie apocalypse i think that that's kind of the idea of the show but i think that she's so ingrained into this this
00:20:10
Speaker
Burnham character now that I mean. Oh, are you saying it's an equal Martin Green simultaneously on The Walking Dead and Star Trek Discovery? She did one episode where she came back. She did one episode where she came back. Right. So between season one, season two of Discovery, she had one episode in The Walking Dead. So you're saying that's the episode I should watch? No.
00:20:37
Speaker
I have to go back and consult my notes. You wasted my mind time. You wasted my thoughts there. My thoughts be bloody. Maybe season six, episode one. Did you like more things than you disliked about this episode at the end? Do we want to talk about our ratings already? No. And then just keep talking? You don't know how to do TV, do you?
00:21:02
Speaker
You get to do the ratings at the end. That's right. Because then everyone clicks out. Everyone turns, everyone changes the channel and goes to watch The Simpsons. But I already posted my ratings on Twitter. Are you kidding me? Go on, stop. Stop, you terrible person. I am. OK, anyways, go on. I'm glad you didn't see that post. Now it's going to be a mystery to use. I was going to go check it out. OK, so OK, I won't look at it. Don't do it. Don't do it. I enjoyed more things than I just than I just enjoyed, no, than I just liked.
00:21:31
Speaker
In both this episode and episode one, and I will say that Tilly annoyed me less in this episode than in episode one, though I find that Tilly has become a parody of herself. They're doubling down on the quirky and fun, which was fine in the beginning, but now it's a little heavy.
00:21:51
Speaker
I know you posted the memes with the people shaking their head when I said no math was involved. Yes, thank you for bringing that up. I made a comment on Discovery Season 2 Episode 1 that it was stupid that she says it's the power of math, people.
00:22:08
Speaker
where no math was involved. Of course, math is involved. They're on a starship in space. Math is literally involved in everything. Like when you ask for coffee, when you ask for coffee, math is involved, right? What I meant is the line
00:22:23
Speaker
It didn't deserve to be there in the sense that they didn't show any of the math being executed on screen. They didn't show any of the hard work that they put into it. Like a TNG episode, you have Data and Jordy really working and figuring things out, even if it's bullshit that they say, like Technobabble. Tilly did nothing. They just threw a Frisbee on the ground. It unfolded into this giant thing, and then they captured a rock. And it's about math people. It's not. You just threw a Frisbee on the ground and magically captured a rock.
00:22:48
Speaker
I think throughout my, excuse me, burping, drinking coffee and burping on my show. That's so professional. Disgusting. Get him off my bridge. Pardon me, audience. I didn't mean to burp on screen. It happens sometimes. We also sometimes crack our necks.
00:23:17
Speaker
There we go. That was good. I cracked my bag instead. I distract you with Chris Evans. I get your attention with everything else. You do. You do. You do. You distract me with Chris Evans.
00:23:32
Speaker
What I will say is that I think I see your points, all your points, in terms of an argument, which sometimes we have, but I do see all your points. But there's just something about it that works for me, like that combination, as opposed to making me not enjoy it. Did you enjoy Wesley Crusher at the time when you were watching TNG? I find it ironic that someone would enjoy Tilly, but not enjoy Wesley Crusher.
00:24:01
Speaker
Yeah, so when I was a kid, I was totally into Wesley Crusher. My feelings for him evolved later on where I actually changed my mind. And I was like, oh, he's actually like a terrible person. Can I be mean? Can I be mean? Is it will we that you dislike or is it Wesley Crusher?
00:24:19
Speaker
Actually, I have. I actually like Wil Wheaton a lot because we're going to put it on record. However, however, there's a lot of things that Wil Wheaton tweets about that I don't understand. And sometimes it actually hits me in an emotional way. Right. And sometimes those are negative emotions. So that's the best I can do to say how I feel about Wil Wheaton. But I love him. You know, he's part of my childhood. I knew about Wil Wheaton before Star Trek.
00:24:48
Speaker
before he was in Star Trek because I saw the movie. Yeah, he existed to a lot of people in a beautiful film called Stand By Me, which is based on a Stephen King's novel. And if you haven't seen it, Trek, you are missing out on an important film for humanity. Okay. Stand By Me, the movie.
00:25:13
Speaker
the movie um movie because there's no song which is great as well it's and i think the song is in the movie and now i have to IMDB stand by have you already stand by me IMDBed um i haven't IMDBed it i've Wikipedia hold on let's see if siri knows this one hey siri who directed the movie stand by me i found two movies for you to choose from stand by me and stand by me which stand by me
00:25:44
Speaker
Stand by me. The first one.
00:25:51
Speaker
Rob Reiner, is that it? Rob Reiner. Oh, you beat Siri. I did. You beat Siri. I did. But then I didn't have to choose between stand by me and stand by me. The real nitpicker in me thinks that the computer on discovery shouldn't be much. Oh, yeah. Rob Reiner directed Princess
Discovery's Writing and Character Arcs
00:26:16
Speaker
Bride. Okay. I want to see the movie now.
00:26:18
Speaker
Oh, good. Look at that. Hey, audience, we just did a promotion for a film and we got someone to watch it. That's awesome. You should also watch The Expanse. Yes. Can we have our Expanse moment right now? Are you just beyond excited that it's coming back? There ain't no red angels in The Expanse, but there are blue people, which is pretty cool.
00:26:43
Speaker
And, spoilers, hashtag, you should know this already. What the F is going on? In the expense, I got no clue. Me neither, that's what I love. I'm perpetually intrigued. It just begins and you're like, what? And then, what? And every season, it's just like, it gets more and more crazy, but it's awesome. I have to say something controversial about Star Trek Discovery, so be ready. Oh, dear Lord. Okay.
00:27:10
Speaker
I'll have to log out if I'm displeased. Oh, come on. I'm not going to say it. I'm always controversial. This season feels like it's finally going to be a contender in that level of my expectations for what a perfect show is. I feel like here's the expanse and then Discovery was like here, like, hold on, it doesn't even fit.
00:27:39
Speaker
like where discovery was for me last season and now i feel like it's like it's like right there can i say two things can i say two things in reaction to that the first thing is you don't watch enough tv series
00:27:53
Speaker
You need to be watching more so that you can have a bit of perspective. Also, I have to work. I don't have time. You have to keep in mind that comparatively season two has had a very strong beginning to like season one. And so you might be a little overhyped. I'm happy to with that description at this moment. Like I'm happy to take on that thing because it's true. I do think I will feel differently when my emotions settle.
00:28:24
Speaker
Well, you know, I'm to put it in old, old timey terms. I'm jazzed up about jazzed up. Oh, my God. So jazzed. I am so jazzed right now, jazzed, which is a beautiful Jonathan Frakes reference. Thank you. Thank you. I didn't even try for that. So thank you. Can we talk about the episode?
00:28:53
Speaker
Well, I thought that's what we were doing. Well, yes and no. We're giving the expense and stand by me. It's true. And since we're giving shadows, shout out to Star Trek Discovery writers. Hey, you're killing it this season. Yes, not bad. Good. Carry on. Sean Cochran. Sean Cochran wrote this and the short tricks Calypso, which people have enjoyed. So that's great. Yeah. Congratulations. Anyway.
00:29:21
Speaker
I thought this episode was, okay, Burnham is perpetually kind of arrogant and annoying, but in this episode, she wasn't so annoying and wasn't so arrogant, but she flipped it and she was closed-minded. But then I suppose like these are the flaws that the character has. We keep on talking about how perfect she is in the way that she can do everything and execute everything to perfection. I suppose her flaws are more in her
00:29:49
Speaker
What would make you put that kind of disagreement with her character to rest? What kind of a scenario or how would Burnham be in your mind to show you that she's just like everyone else? Well, I think that I would like her to have an actual position.
00:30:11
Speaker
First of all, I mean, she's not, I think she was supposed to be a science officer, a science officer slash like first officer at some point, but then she's never really done any science at all. She's an amazing pilot, she's an amazing engineer. Like she does all, she can fight a Klingon. She does all these amazing things. And I know that we're supposed to follow like the,
00:30:36
Speaker
Well, usually, everything's explainable with these best offices in Starfleet, because we are following the flagship of Starfleet that represents the Federation. So we're literally, we have the peak, right? This is the best of humanity. This is just the US's discovery, just another ship. And so they shouldn't be the peak. But I think that I would like her talents to be more focused on a specific
00:31:03
Speaker
kind of theme. And I think that's what made the ensemble cast of the other Star Trek so strong, is that you have an engineer that's good at engineering. You have a doctor that's good at, like, doctoring, right? You have, everyone has their kind of strong point, and then you have this very magnificent leader, which Captain Pike is embodying greatly this season, I gotta say. He's very good. I love this scene on the planet where he just sits back, he lets Sanico talk, he lets some Burnham talk,
00:31:31
Speaker
And then eventually he just says, look, we're going to we're going to take risks. Thank you for your hospitality. We were going to, you know, he kind of intervenes at that right moment where he feels like maybe this will go just a little too far in the discussion and the debate. I think that was some very good captaining right there.
00:31:46
Speaker
Um, I have a question for you. You probably know this better than I do, but I can remember that Spock was the science officer on the enterprise. I can remember that. Well, we know from this episode at least, but I think it's been established before this that Burnham is the science officer board discovery. Um, who was the science was data, the science officer on, on TNG. I don't know why it's unclear to me, but I don't know who it was. Um, he was, um, I dunno.
00:32:17
Speaker
I forgot. They have a science officer. Then they change the ranks around. They change like the, because you didn't have a communications officer anymore. By the time you got to TNG, Wolf would take care of communications.
00:32:30
Speaker
Oh, this is true. The bridge crew actually like kind of. It seems like then you had like you had a ship counselor because you went from a crew complement of like 400 to like 1000 and you had families. Yeah. So then you started needing like more. What about. OK, so then what about on voyagers? Is Harry Kim the science officer or who's the science officer?
00:32:49
Speaker
Well, Harry Kim's just the helmsman. No, would it be Tuvok? Would it have been Tuvok? Tuvok was chief of security. Oh. He was tactical. I forgot that. I just stereotyped him because he's a Vulcan into the science officer role. That's terrible. He was. OK, to save you, he was a science officer when he was serving under Sulu. Captain Sulu? Yeah, he was a science officer in his first graphic career. Very nice.
00:33:19
Speaker
That's cool that he has two Starfleet careers. It's kind of insane. Do you think Tuvok could show up on Discovery? Is he that old?
00:33:26
Speaker
I don't know if he's that old. I don't think so. I think he was only 30 when he was on with Sulu. What was the name of the science officer? Was it Hoshi on Enterprise? Who was the science officer on Enterprise? She was the communication science officer. Oh, that's right. That's right. So we had science officers on every show, like a clear science officer.
00:33:50
Speaker
except Voyager and TNG. And Deep Space Nine. Dax was science officer on Deep Space Nine. Yeah, Dax was science on Deep Space Nine. I forgot. I totally bad Sohail. Bad Starfleet boy. I left out Deep Space Nine. Interesting. Fascinating.
00:34:09
Speaker
Okay, so how do you how do you compare Burnham against all other science officers? Like, does she? Well, she doesn't do any science. That's the thing. What are you talking about? Okay, she did science on this episode. I have to connect. What happens is, what happens is she doesn't do any specific science or anything that can clearly show you that she's a science officer. What she does is she comes in.
00:34:33
Speaker
and spurts a bunch of technobabble and it's the solution and I have no problem with characters doing that because in Star Trek that's always what happens like someone all of a sudden has this revelation says some nonsense bullshit and it works right that's how Star Trek is but she does this all the time
00:34:50
Speaker
in every instance, and in episode one, for example, it was done in a way that it kind of undercut or portrayed the other guy in a bad light. Everything from the moment he was put on the show was made to show you that Burnham is better than this guy. This guy is a know-it-all. And it's kind of weird. I don't like the way that you kind of put down people to bring people up.
00:35:19
Speaker
But do you think... Stashwick has never done that before? Stashwick has never needed to do that. Stashwick has always been so open-minded, so beyond everyone else, that they have been able to portray everyone in great light together and still...
00:35:35
Speaker
I've never seen Burnham put anyone else down intentionally as far as her character is concerned because I think she is everything you describe. I agree with you up to this point, which is I think all those things about Burnham that you say are true.
00:35:53
Speaker
But that's her character, like that's what we're meant to hate her a little bit, to be like that person is arrogant because I think by the end of the series, she's going to be like the best Starfleet officer. You're going to love commander or captain or whatever she becomes. I hope that they make her so cool and she's so redeemed that the moment that they kill her, I cry.
00:36:17
Speaker
All right. That's what needs to happen. That's how the show needs to end. The show needs to end with her dying. So you want, you want, you want her to build up the thing and then have a sad ending. I need to reflect back to seven years ago. She was the most annoying character I've ever seen. Right. But now it's like seven years later, she's, she's so amazing and they killed her and I'm sad. Right. Because at this point I would be relieved.
00:36:42
Speaker
But the scene where they do the warp for five seconds, top warp speed, which I think is interesting that they don't mention
Technical Discussions & Warp Theories
00:36:50
Speaker
what that is. I don't know if we do know the top warp speed of Discovery, if it's been mentioned on the show. I think she's like...
00:36:58
Speaker
Well, if they're going to be correct in their timeline, it might even be like warp 11 because until a certain. It was a different scale. It was a different scale. Yeah. So it might, it could be interesting to see what her top warp speed ends up being. Obviously these are the kind of details.
00:37:16
Speaker
It's nice to have Easter eggs like Musk High School, right? Till he went to Musk, Elon Musk High School. What was that about? Oh, Elon Musk, okay. It's funny. It's nice, right? It's funny to have Easter eggs like Chateau Piccard wine, okay? That's fun. Can you say that again? Chateau Piccard. Is that how you correctly say his name? Jean-Luc Piccard.
00:37:42
Speaker
I just feel like I heard his name for the first time in my whole life. That's so good. Can you promote your French show now? Do you have to give it a shout out? It's not my French show. I do sometimes intervene on a French podcast when they ask me to come on. I did a recent discussion about the Wrath of Khan.
00:38:04
Speaker
I learned, I learned this in French. Ready? Remember, I'm learning French for you guys, actually, for my Canadian friends. Yes. It's a different reason every week, Sean. It is. Bonjour, pardon. It's not bad. That's good. I understood it was clear. There was an accent, but that's fine. My English is terrible, right? But, um,
00:38:32
Speaker
Is this better? Does it sound more natural? Hold on. Here we go. Ready? Bonjour. No, absolutely not. Funny thing. So you're doing the chef from friggin... Yes, it was him. Yes, it's him. Yes. Thank you for recognizing my... Thank you for seeing me. God damn it.
00:38:57
Speaker
he actually sings wait on the soundtrack it's also him singing just a little actually yes so that's actually his singing and he's good if you listen to it he's actually a good singer yeah it isn't it is like an angry french odo singing i love the fishes
00:39:17
Speaker
We've gone so far from where we were. I was talking about Easter eggs. No, but this is relevant because it's just like Star Trek. One of the thoughts I was having in my, what did you call it? The season hype? What is it I'm experiencing? I don't know. The current hype, like you're in the- The current hype. We'll call it the esprit de corps. That's what they would call it on Star Trek, I believe. Oh, really? Isn't that French? Didn't I say something else in French as that?
00:39:43
Speaker
l'a-la-spritico. Well, spirit of the body, whatever that means, but it sounds very deep. I don't know what it means. I think it's spirit of the day. I think it's actually, that's what the, it's like, that's what the phrase means. Ask your mom. She speaks French, right? Ask my mom.
00:40:05
Speaker
It's true. She might know what I'm talking about. Joe heard this episode. By the way, this is for documentarian purposes. It's totally nothing to do with anything. But I watched this episode with my mom.
00:40:22
Speaker
And you want to know something? I was so happy I could. I was not afraid that tits were going to be exposed. Sorry, that was a bad word. I don't know if it's PG-13. But tatas, or Klingon breasts, or Vulcan penises, I was not worried that any of that was going to happen. I don't think they're going to go that far.
00:40:40
Speaker
I felt safe in the hands of Captain Pike. My mom is absolutely in love with Anson Mount. She kept asking, like, oh, who is this new captain? You know, like she that impersonation of her. So Anson Mount, you are you, you have you have my mother's attention. And so now she wants to watch episodes of Discovering These. I have a streaming buddy.
00:41:04
Speaker
Well, I think everyone can agree, even those that will say, not my Star Trek, we're talking about Discovery. I think they can all agree that it is my pipe, right? I certainly felt that way about Star Trek Discovery at times, but I'm really willing to... Star Trek stumbles. Star Trek stumbles in its beginnings all the time. Most first seasons are either plain bad or mediocre.
00:41:31
Speaker
And with the exception of the original series, which is a bit different, because, I mean, seasons were structured in such a way back in the day, it was just kind of, they have 30 episodes in the first season, so it's kind of different. You can't really compare that, but. Kind of awesome. The first season. Could you imagine? The difference is, I suppose, what really put people off, or really put me off, is I can accept a bad Star Trek season, or a bad Star Trek first season, because it is Star Trek. And where Discovery was a bit confusing was, not only did I find it kind of mediocre,
00:42:01
Speaker
but it didn't feel like Star Trek either. So I suppose I was confused at times thinking, why am I even watching this? What's compelling me to watch this if not only do I find it kind of sub-par television, but also I don't recognize Star Trek in it? That was my conflict. And this is a much better beginning to the second season.
00:42:25
Speaker
where we're going, I like the new characters that have integrated. I like Pike, I think he's great. I can't wait to see number one a bit more, at all. I want to see Reno, because we save Reno in the first episode, and then she just disappears. That's very interesting, isn't that? Shag, where is Reno? I think that should be in the last episode. Yeah, okay. I was talking about the Easter eggs. I want to finish with this. I think that
00:42:54
Speaker
having bottles of wine and whatever, those kind of Easter eggs are really fun to find having a gone skeleton. It's really awesome. But I think what would be really interesting is very small lines of dialogue that kind of tie in and explain certain things like the warp drive. Have someone say engage warp 12, right? And find a way to explain why the scale is different.
00:43:20
Speaker
Right. And maybe someone say, look, warp 12 and say like, oh, this might be one of the last times that you ever use warp 12, because apparently back at Starfleet headquarters, they're changing the scale because they found a new way to calculate the war signature waiver, you know, find a way to kind of tie into that.
00:43:38
Speaker
I'm willing to wait for that moment. I think that the writers are not reluctant, as I once possibly thought they were, but I think they're very like cautious about what information they sprinkle in that, that as you, by the way, brilliant.
00:43:55
Speaker
I think they are, I think they're like... Then they go ahead and do some random ass shit and just throw anything and everything in whatever they want. Okay, so then we'll at least... They throw in holograms. Maybe I should change my statement too. Maybe I should change my statement too. I think they're becoming more conscious of like, maybe we should be very careful of blah, blah, blah. I get the impression that it's very intentional. I get the impression that, you know, these are things that are obviously going to delight
00:44:21
Speaker
Fans or whatever you want to call superfans or like lifelong married to Star Trek people These are things that are gonna delight the hell out of them, but you want to like kind of not, you know scare off newcomers if you It's like the laws of dating think
00:44:45
Speaker
I know these kind of small little things, like for example, hey, hit it, warp 15. You just hit it, warp 15, and then someone says, hey, that might be the last time we use warp 15, because apparently, back at selfie day two,
00:45:00
Speaker
the developing technology that will scale our warp drive to 10 maximum. Oh, really? Yeah. And then so it's like you kind of have that kind of dialogue between maybe the two helmsmen that we have. It would show us they interact at their friends and it would just be a nice history. No one, it wouldn't confuse general audiences.
00:45:19
Speaker
Right. Right. And then it would tie. And then when you watch the original series, like, are they still using the however scaled it is, like maybe up to 15 or 17, whatever it was. And then when you get to TNG, you're like, oh, well, they've implemented the warp 10, haven't they? It would be a nice way to tie it in.
00:45:35
Speaker
I know you said that you wanted this to be your last point before we did our ratings, but I have to ask you because I think it's important because I have a lot of notes, but I but the most important. I have many things to talk about if you want. OK, cool, cool. OK, so the thing will then but I'll still go to this question, which is like, can we talk about Jacob, the character of Jacob? What did you think of Jacob? What did Jacob was? Jacob was the character, the most valuable character of this episode. I forget the name of the actor.
00:46:05
Speaker
Oh, I'm a terrible person. I'm going to find his name so that we can talk about it. It is. Hold on. I'm following him on Twitter. His last name is Moody. I know that. I think it's Andrew Moody. Andrew. Yeah, that's it. OK. Because I tweeted his name. I used his Twitter handle because I thought his performance was outstanding. And his character was compelling. And I very much enjoyed his arc and his perspective.
00:46:33
Speaker
Um, and you feel for the guy, you feel for the guy, because the whole episode is very peculiar in the way that they set up that this colony of these people have arrived from 2053. Right. Technically they are pre-warp, right? Technically they are pre-warp, but then are they pre-warp? Because you're talking about a society that became warp capable that very same year.
00:46:58
Speaker
Which means, technically speaking, some people are pre-warp on the planet, some people aren't ready for the next evolution, except for an evolution that some people are. This guy might have been a friend of Cochran's, right, if he had the chance, and maybe he would have gone with him. So this guy was clearly ready for space travel, he comprehended space travel, like he had a comprehension of it. Well, obviously, because if you pretend that, but also if you pretend that, like,
00:47:26
Speaker
uh star trek is at least grounded in real life not i'm not saying it's like you know it's supposedly yeah obviously it didn't it didn't predict when any of these horrible things would ever happen hopefully they'll never happen right but if it was ground let's just say it was grounded in reality then just yes he he is an actual human who that means he he he knew who elon about he studied about elon musk where he possibly went to you know
00:47:51
Speaker
Whatever, you know, like all these things it's like he's a he's a real human and so it would be like totally It's his point is that like he's like we know that we were gonna eventually Go on to the stars. We can just we know that this is these people are humans Just let them take us back like he's totally ready for the Star Trek. Yeah I love I love the way they end the episode and so I think
00:48:17
Speaker
He said something like, we'll see, I think we'll see each other again or something. So, you know, it kind of, maybe we're going to see this planet. Maybe we're going to see. I think it was a big hit. I hope, I really hope, I really hope he's a great character and so are they. These people actually are all cool. I do love the way that they, usually this kind of stuff ends with like, you have to leave them behind and wipe the memory. You have to take them with you because you don't know. I love how this guy accepts. He's like, okay,
00:48:44
Speaker
I'm going to live here because this is my home, this is my planet, this is where I belong and I'm going to help my community. But the fact that you've acknowledged that I'm right and that my family and my ancestors have been right all this time is just such a relief for me. He's relieved and he's happy about that. I felt it, yeah, it was super cool. And you're like, that's really great. And I loved his performance during that. I think it was, yeah, he's the standout character for me in this episode. And then, of course, Pike.
00:49:10
Speaker
And he might be part of the end game of the season because it's interesting that like, if you were to dive into, well, that's when Captain Picard explodes into Discovery. And he's like, I'm here to save all of Star Trek. Don't worry, audience. Oh, it's Captain Picard, the Red Angel, right?
00:49:31
Speaker
He's the Red Angel. It's Papa Picard and Mama Burnham. I think that's the official French version of Old Man Picard, right? So we could just start calling him Papa Pica. Papa Pica. Where is my Papa Pica?
00:49:54
Speaker
Um, but no, in all seriousness, uh, I think that if you dive deep into the religious stuff, like Jacob, there's a connection with Jacob's ladder. Jacob's the, uh, I looked it up because I remembered from Sunday school, but I don't, I didn't, you know, I didn't have it like readily available, but he has a vision.
00:50:13
Speaker
What's that? Because the character is called Jacob. Yes. I don't think it's random. Yes. Right. I don't think it's a random choice. I think he's going to tie into the well, anyways, the vision of the latter involves angels in biblical texts. Right. So so he so I think that the writers are kind of like really going deeper than I, you know, have thought. And I think there's like some pretty cool stuff. That is very that is how Calypso was written as well.
00:50:41
Speaker
Calypso was written thematically as like that Greek mythology. Right, that I didn't remember correctly. Yeah, well, I mean, I think none of us did. I saw a lot of interesting, very constructive and very kind of precise breakdowns on the YouTubes about this episode, but I'm, like, I may be a bad person for saying this, but I'm pretty sure everyone did the same thing as me and brushed up on the history before releasing the videos.
Mythology and Religious Themes
00:51:09
Speaker
I don't think everyone remembered the
00:51:12
Speaker
the tale exactly precisely, right? I only remembered it because my upbringing was Catholic and I read the Bible as a child like three times from start to finish. Yes, I was a good little boy. I might not be a good man.
00:51:33
Speaker
I read that too, but I read that a little later. But I did actually remember that. I remember a lot of stories from the Bible. And actually, I think that that's another interesting thing about this episode is that it does, I think, accurately depict the complexity of humans. We don't know where Captain Pike is. I think we know where Burnham is, because in that one scene, she describes it as a building. And he goes, it's a church, Burnham. And then she's like, OK, yeah, but why is that important? So Burnham seems to be a classic
00:52:03
Speaker
You know, maybe she's an atheist, which is fascinating to me. And Pike might actually have a spiritual life of some sort. He might actually like be not unlike these villagers who actually have like a mix of all faiths. You know, it's an interesting perspective.
00:52:19
Speaker
I love that. And I don't like the way that I find that a lot of the fandom in Star Trek seem to have this obsession with ruling out religion and casting away religion when it comes to Star Trek. And I think that that is inappropriate, first of all, because Kirk's always talking about God.
00:52:36
Speaker
Right? But I think that... My God, man! Also, you have people like... Stagik has made a big point about showing us Native Americans that live like Native American tribes that now live on different planets, and they have their own spiritual beliefs.
00:52:57
Speaker
You have all of the Bajoran religion, etc. Religion is a big part of Star Trek and I think it shouldn't be dismissed. And I really do hope that this season finds a way to kind of show people that being open-minded isn't synonymous with
00:53:18
Speaker
blindly following science and objecting to faith. It's not because you don't specifically believe. I say this, I'm an agnostic, right? I'm closer to atheists. Just a little note to the audience, I don't think until this moment you and I have ever really discussed what... No, I don't think so. Because that's the other part of this argument is that it doesn't really matter. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter whether you believe in any kind of God or not. It doesn't believe
00:53:46
Speaker
It doesn't matter at all, right? And I hope that the season kind of shows us that. I hope the season kind of shows. And I would really like Star Trek to show us. I would have liked to see more religions on Star Trek. It may seem ridiculous, but just one crew member before they go into the battle of Sector 001 or something just praying. It would make sense, right? Religion has been like a part of our society from the get-go.
00:54:14
Speaker
Why would it disappear all of a sudden? It's not because we start traveling the stars. But it makes total sense that Burnham is the way she is. I mean, she grew up on Vulcan. So humans are a spiritual melting pot, if you will. Vulcans are one of the most religious people out there. Right, but you have the right religion. Isn't their religion logic, though? That's the thing that's so interesting about them. But then they think they idolize Surak. Yeah, Surak.
00:54:43
Speaker
So yeah, they idolized him, right? He's well, I mean, the guy like made Vulcan with a frickin hammer and created the Forge. I like like if Soraka, you know, it's literally about religion, right? Let me just say that. Yeah. Well, if Soraka ever appeared in the Marvel universe, it would be akin to the Asgardians. But like, you know, that's what I imagine he's like, like Thor all of a sudden, Thor's like, you know, doing something. And then out of nowhere, this Vulcan, like with a hammer appears and he goes,
00:55:12
Speaker
before you existed, Thor, I, Siroc. That ties in so much to Roman mythology and Roman gods because Vulcan was the god of fire, volcanoes and the forge.
00:55:28
Speaker
right so it'd be neat if you know i think brian fuller is an interesting person i don't know if you have i'm very happy that he's no longer associated with star trek no i realize this but like if we're analyzing if we're analyzing why he might have been chosen to be involved with star trek in the first place right i think it is history in voyager well i also think as a writer and as an artist like from watching his other show uh american gods i do see that he does have you read the book
00:55:59
Speaker
Yes, I know it's totally different. It's a liberal and it's a very, you know, okay, I'm talking about Brian Fuller. It would be interesting to see how much of his original vision for Discovery is
00:56:18
Speaker
kind of being sprinkled into season two. And I think that we've definitely encountered Zeus and things like that on Star Trek. I must be believed that its vision was very present in season one.
Showrunner Influence & Critiques
00:56:32
Speaker
I think that's pretty much what it was, because Aaron Hobbits and Jason Jayberg dissipate as we move into season two. Because Jason Jayberg and Aaron Hobbits were always his right-hand troops. They were the ones that were always
00:56:45
Speaker
working on every show that he's ever worked on it was him showrunner and then them as executive producers behind him. And so when he left the show they were left in charge and I'm pretty sure they continued his vision to the best of their ability probably with you know limitations by the production behind but then I think now that Alex Kurtzman is in charge and Alex Kurtzman
00:57:07
Speaker
I'm not going to say he was waiting for the moment where everyone else would get fired, but I kind of feel like he had a plan. He had a plan pretty much all written down with everything ready to go. And the moment that he was put in the showrunner chair, he pulled out his folder and said, look, this is what I got.
00:57:25
Speaker
Nice. That's a very beautiful... Did you remote view this image? That's like a show in and of itself. There should be another show called The Making of Star Trek Discovery. I'm pretty sure that he had everything set up. He was like, okay, I got my TV universe. It's all set. It's ready to go. I now need to find a way. No, that's wrong. I'll rephrase this.
00:57:55
Speaker
now need to wait for these showrunners to leave so that I can showrun. Wow. Wow.
00:58:02
Speaker
I'm not implying that Kurtzman did anything to get them fired. Absolutely not. Kurtzman, what do you say about this? It's no foul play. I saw Alex Kurtzman on the Facebook show. Oh, the Facebook live stream. Live stream show, which I hate to say this, but like all all props to Matt Myra, who I think is an interesting person and cool. But I really enjoyed this format like way more. And I thought that the... Matt Myra was not a problem without the trick.
00:58:32
Speaker
Right. Yeah, I would agree with that too. People seem to blame the host. It's not the host. He was doing his job. If Starfleet boy is horrible, you're going to blame Starfleet boy. And many people do think so. No, it's horrible. It's different. Starfleet boy.
00:58:50
Speaker
It would be the problem with Starfleet. You would be the one to blame because you created the show. Matt Myer wasn't the one that created Aftertrix. He was just hired to be the host. Well, then I agree with you. I think that Matt Myer is wonderful. I said that. He's also a dedicated fan to Star Trek, and he was told to say things that were only positive. I don't know him personally, and I can't speak for him.
00:59:16
Speaker
But I'm sure that like everyone else, he has his own complaints, his own quarrels with every iteration of Star Trek. But then on the show, when you're the host, you're not allowed to go around saying, oh, this was shit. You got to speak positively about the show, especially when you got the producers and the showrunners and the writers in front of you.
00:59:34
Speaker
I think we're done talking about the meat of the episode, unless you have more notes. But what I want to talk about to end, if you agree, is the little elephant in the room. Because I've gone on record so many times stating how horrible I think the choices the production team make are in terms of how they visualize this time period in Star Trek history, right?
01:00:00
Speaker
But when I was watching this episode, I still there's still some like huge things that I'm like struggling with. Right. But somehow Jonathan Freaks made it look way better than it normally does. And I think I don't know. Would you give that credit to the director? Right. Or who would be the cinematographer? For some reason in this episode, like even the scene, especially the scene where Tilly is like grabbing. That was great.
01:00:23
Speaker
I love that. That was very data and very Geordie in the cargo bay trying to use some sort of bullshit thing. Visually, that was amazing. I didn't have my thing on. Jonathan Freaks came into the Discovery cargo bay and he looked around and he said, we're going to set this up like the TNG cargo bay. We're going to have our fake plastic containers
01:00:47
Speaker
I noticed this. We're going to have artillery. We're going to have a protagonist in the middle using this. Essentially, it's always something that makes a sound and that has a blinky light in Star Trek, right? This is more than a blinky light. It was awesome energy. Then they see the energy. And she explained. Note the difference between this and the previous one. She explained that there's a laser that's going to cut into the rock and that there's a gravity field that's being created inside. You understand how the tick works and why she's using it.
01:01:17
Speaker
This is the power of math, not the first episode. Note the difference.
01:01:23
Speaker
So this was a good Tilly moment. The Cargo Bay of Tilly moment was great. I like it. I like it when Tilly says her little expressions. I wish she had one in this, by the way. It was, hello, gorgeous. And then it explodes and knocks her out of the thing. I had a different quarrel with this episode, didn't it? OK, the technology, I still can't get over the fact that there are holograms everywhere, and I hate it. I still can't get over the fact that there are transparent screens everywhere, and I hate it.
01:01:52
Speaker
As a Star Trek fan, I'm honored to say that Star Trek Discovery is the only show in the world that has the only six real functioning transparent computer screens. That's amazing. It means a lot to me as a Star Trek fan that Star Trek is the only show, the only thing on Earth to have these six screens, which are the only ones that work. It's awesome.
01:02:17
Speaker
But I am appalled that they would use it in a show that takes place before the like TOS. These screens were to be used on Picard's ship in the Picard show. That was the choice that needed to be made. That you're going to bring back Picard, give him the screens. It makes more sense technologically, and it honors him more. Nevertheless, the technology is out of place. The holograms are just everywhere. What if Papa Picard is a pirate in the new show?
01:02:44
Speaker
like what if he's like it says that his life is drastically altered right by the by this thing right like what if he's he what if he's not pirating with Vash yes what if he and Vash are pirating together and he's like how frustrated would you be if they finished his love story like they concluded his love story they give him a wedding with Vash and not Crusher
01:03:11
Speaker
How frustrated would you be? You would see me cry. Because you know that Beverly Concha would be there. She would be there. It would break my heart. Front row watching Picard get married. Now that you said it, it's not going to happen. Thank you for saying it. Because now CVS are not going to use it because they don't want to pay you lots of money. That's very true. I'll say it again. Everything that I say, CVS, you're allowed to use. I won't sue you.
01:03:39
Speaker
If you like an idea of mine, go ahead. I don't care. I won't sue you. Hire me. I agree with that statement. I think we should hire Sean and myself as well, even though I have a great job. I would work part-time bringing you coffee. I make cakes. I'm a pastry chef, right? Yes, and I can't wait to taste your pastries.
01:04:02
Speaker
I mean, there you go. One day, we'll have to meet in real life. Have you ever made a lemon square? And how do you say that in French? A lemon square? What the hell is that? Yes. A square? It's the pink. Oh, the Americans. I think... How do you say lemon square in French? It would be tarteau citron. Tarteau citron would be like a lemon tart. Tarteau citron.
01:04:30
Speaker
I like that. And then there's also tarte de citron meringue, which is with meringue on top, if you prefer. And then so there's there's legitimate quarrels in France about whether you want your meringue on top or not. Would the French consider it romantic? Let's say I was in France and I saw a very, very handsome, blonde haired person. If I said... Would that be like offensive? Would I get a slap or would it be like a compliment?
01:05:00
Speaker
It would be, they would think that you're a very confused American. Because I mean, does that work in the United States? Hi there, strawberry cheesecake. That doesn't work. It can work on me. If someone said that to me, it might work.
01:05:19
Speaker
I mean, especially the way you said it just now, it sounded really good. I mean, that was like, that worked. I think it's who delivers the line, right? You need to have this sex appeal, right? And that's a tie-in to the acting and performances in this episode, but I'll save that for my closing statements.
01:05:38
Speaker
I have I have a beef. I have beef with this episode. Oh, that's right. I was trying to I was trying to deflect your beef. I was I was wondering if you have the same thing. All right. OK. I have a tendency of saying and it's a kind of an old statement, but I have a tendency of saying that Discovery, especially in season one, said things.
01:05:57
Speaker
but never did things. They would always say, we are Starfleet. And it's all about saying that you're Starfleet, saying that you're Star Trek, but never really showing it on screen. And so I found that this episode actually illustrates that quite a bit. When Captain Pike, just before they do the spool jump, he says something like, be bold, be brave, be courageous. Like, why do you say that? No captain needs to say that ever. Just do it, right? But it sounds great. It doesn't. It sounds cheesy. It's corny. No, it doesn't. It sounds amazing. They all clap.
01:06:26
Speaker
on the bridge every time something good happens no one claps and stuff like it's your job you're supposed to be doing this i get that you're happy i get that you sometimes you can crack a smile but the fact that they have this motivational music and everyone's clapping they make an event about everything that ever happens on on discovery and it's kind of weird it's too much um there's also um
01:06:48
Speaker
The only way, if I can answer that real quick, on a personal level, the only way I can relate to that and I think the reason why that same situation kind of works for me in this season is I'll just say I agree with you and then I want to add or piggyback off of your statement and say that
01:07:07
Speaker
like I have seen situations where the arrival of someone can totally as Pike says change your perspective and I think that's what Pike is doing for this crew which was like a whole different crew in the in the first episode despite what we may think of the production value the acting or anything like that on the story level what seems to be
01:07:28
Speaker
what they're kind of bringing to light about season one, at least for me, is that no matter what was going on and whether we thought it was great or not, this crew was like totally battered. I mean like when we start Star Trek Discovery season one, Lorika is like making his security officer Rekha Sherma's character.
01:07:49
Speaker
Landry, he's making her do the worst things as his right hand person. She's trying to harass Burnham. And then she gets killed brutally. Think about what that does for a crew. No one's going to want to defy
01:08:06
Speaker
or even get into situations with that. But then Burnham comes along and I think Lorca brought out the worst things in her. And I think that's what we all saw in season one. But by the end of the episode, by going through this journey again a second time where she's like, this guy's like worse than
01:08:24
Speaker
like anyone like he's worse than me like she actually like finds her in herself what it means to be a part of starfleet and also to be a part of the federation so i think you're right she starts out totally unfocused and then she finds her focus at the end of season one and i'm like okay even though i didn't really like season one i was ready to be done with it i'm so delighted that in season two these are the things that are kind of like being solved in a way by by burnham's
01:08:51
Speaker
you know by where we're at with Pike and like and that and you can even though we don't see it and that's a frustration of season one too is that like the bridge crew was totally ignored in my opinion during throughout season one I mean there were a few moments where and we were so excited when we got those moments you know I mean so finally in season two the writers learned or perhaps the producers or perhaps this is Alex Curtin for whatever reason in season two we're really now starting to feel more connection
01:09:16
Speaker
with the actual crew of the Discovery, you know, and not just these like random characters like that we didn't need because they were fanservice like, oh, Harry Mudd. No, I love you, Raiden. Harry Mudd was awesome. He was awesome. But you know what I'm saying? Like, I know what you're saying. Now it's more about the show, the crew. This is like now we're going to start getting invested in that.
01:09:37
Speaker
The whole clap thing? I would do it. I would clap. They did it. They did it in season one. I would pike like a hundred percent. The thing is, you relate that to Pike being good and what have you. They still did that in season one. They still had the same kind of moments since season one. Just to give you like the third example I have is Saru gives this big speech about Discovery will not let this catastrophe take place. We will save the people do.
01:10:00
Speaker
Shut the fuck up and do it, right? Just stop. Stop with your speech. You're always trying to be epic. You always got these mad, violent, you know, music companies. No, just do it. Picard never split up. When Picard did a speech, he had a point to make, right? He never talked about how. Star Trek Discovery is all about showing you how Star Trek is important culturally, right? They always make a point of...
01:10:28
Speaker
But Star Trek never talked about how important it was culturally. Star Trek just was. And I would like to move into that. I think of those things as like looking at Saru, for example, in this episode in particular, I actually was like super let you know. I also expressed like I love Doug Jones, but I also had so many problems with with the character. He's one of the strangest characters he's ever played. And I have trouble with. I love Doug Jones.
01:10:53
Speaker
This is weird. This is weird. This is weird.
01:11:10
Speaker
up to now what we seem to know about Saru's decision to leave this planet. It looks like he kind of messed up. Maybe like they're going to go towards this thing where like his family was really messed up because he left. Like that's one less person to help out in the fields. It's going to probably have disgraced the shaman, his dad, you know, like maybe his dad died and now his sister's the new shaman. And so she has to shepherd all these like Kelpians to what she doesn't, maybe she doesn't know it's to their deaths.
01:11:37
Speaker
Maybe that's something we're assuming, you know what I mean? Either way, it's very complex now because of these little cool fill-ins that we had learning more about his character. So I'm a big proponent of learning about the character. I'm happy to come halfway and say that, yes, the clapping's probably too much. I personally enjoy it, but maybe it's not the best way to show enthusiasm for your captain.
01:12:00
Speaker
I just think that, um, so these are examples, right? It's always easy to counter specific examples, right? Um, especially when, because when we try to give argue, when we try to argue, we always try to find specific examples to illustrate argument. But generally what we're trying to do is.
01:12:16
Speaker
put words on feelings. And it's very complicated to do that. So it's just a general feeling that I have with Discovery is that it's always a bit over the top. There's always a bit too much. Are you feeling better about that so far in this season? Or are you feeling this? Well, no, it can't be worse, right?
01:12:38
Speaker
They can't get worse. You can't get worse the last season. This episode was a bit too much in that sense. The whole Saru talking about, we're not going to let these people die and what have you. And here's the thing, people will always come at me and say, yeah, but Picada's speech is about not letting people die.
01:13:00
Speaker
That sounded Australian. It was. I tried to do an angry Australian. But it's not the same thing. It's not the same thing. The objective of the dialogue is not the same thing. When Picard has a speech, it's a very compelling, very deep speech, whereas this Saru moment was just... They're trying to make things seem so epic, right?
01:13:27
Speaker
I don't know if you talked about this in your summary because I don't recall you talking about it and I wrote it down, but Spock's an immense institution.
Spock's Identity Struggles
01:13:35
Speaker
He is, but we saw that in the trailers, though that's not really like, that's an old news. Oh, it was set in the trailers? It was shown in the trailer, literally. Oh, right. No, you're right. But I thought in my mind, it was going to be like a flashback to some other thing. Oh, come on, a flashback. What are you talking about?
01:13:55
Speaker
But it's kind of cool that Spock checked himself into a mental institution because don't you think you'd be freaked out if like these like childhood visions were now suddenly becoming reality? Like I think that like not if you're a Vulcan right cuz he's not a full Vulcan you keep it's not I Don't make a mistake discovery makes a mistake. First of all, what are you talking about?
01:14:18
Speaker
They seem to forget that he was only half Vulcan in the last discussion. You agreed in the last discussion with my statement. I was wrong. I was wrong. I disagree with my agreement.
01:14:35
Speaker
No, but what I've got the conclusion I've come to in this moment whenever what is this for 20 hours? Yes, Vulcan's have some Vulcans have displayed so why are you freaked out about anything that happens in your mind?
01:14:52
Speaker
imagine if you had telepathic powers all of a sudden shenanigans manifested like what if shenanigans later what if normally in a Vulcan those things manifest like at a very early age and then they learn how to like tame them but in Spock because of this no this ain't no pong far
01:15:08
Speaker
Imagine what Spock must look like internally based on because okay just first of all Vulcans and humans like being able to have children says something really awesome which is explained in TNG we know we know why. His mind is as confused as his beard. But he's he's one of the first he's one of the first Vulcan human like combinations to exist. Well you know if he's the only famous one.
01:15:34
Speaker
For all you know, there's hundreds of them. They're just not famous. They never accomplished anything. They might just be like, they might just be people. They've never made any episode about the guy who cleans the street. Right now on this show, you have more expertise knowledge about Star Trek than I do. So I expect you to know. I can tell you about World War III. It began in 2026 and it ended in 2053. What ended it? Like, why did it end?
01:16:04
Speaker
It ended because there was a warp jump, right? Friggin Ziffram Cockrum creates the phoenix and he goes warping across the galaxy with Jonathan, with Will Riker and Jodie LaForge, and they meet the welcome. Do you think that the Planner House arrives? Let me ask you a question about the way the discovery looks, like the way all the incongruities in the universe, right? Prime timeline. I know what you're going to say now. I know exactly what you're going to say. I say no. Go ahead.
01:16:34
Speaker
What if the introduction of the Borg into the timeline created this, like, not an alternate timeline, but accelerated certain technologies on Earth, right? So it's the same timeline. It's prime timeline. But because the Borg parts were now in, these Borg parts are now on Earth, right? Accelerate the timeline. And so discovery is actually accurate in what it's showing. This is the prime timeline, correct?
01:17:04
Speaker
Okay, you assume That the events of first contact, right? This is like this is the problem you assume that there's a new timeline that's created and
01:17:17
Speaker
that effectively erases this one. No, I'm not saying it erases it, because TOS still exists. So if you're watching this show, the change in the style makes sense because TOS is pre- This is false. This is what happens, right? This is what happens. You're so smart. Explain this to me and others. The events.
01:17:43
Speaker
that occurred in the original prime timeline, so the first contact was Ephraim Cochrane, are not altered. They are simply tweaked in the same way that when Cisco goes back to the Bell riots and Cisco becomes Bell, history is not altered. There's no new timeline. When they come back, there's simply a little tweak in the timeline. The difference is Bell has Cisco's pace, right?
01:18:06
Speaker
But from what I understand with physics though, is that like that little tiny thing that you call a tweak actually is the event that changes the whole thing. This, this is what you see, right? The prime timeline just simply is slightly changed here and carries on.
01:18:22
Speaker
You're making me turn on my Wacom tablet. I'm going to have to draw.
Final Thoughts & Podcast Reflections
01:18:27
Speaker
Can you see what I'm showing you? This is the change in the prime timeline. That little small monkey... That looked like a pimple. Okay, so the Timbrel pimple.
01:18:42
Speaker
You're saying that Star Trek Discovery exists in a time pimple? Is that what you're saying? No, I'm saying that Star Trek Discovery exists in the prime timeline, no pimples. Picard has to stop it because he started the whole mess. He created the time pimple when he went back in time. I can't explain anything to you. You refused a lesson.
01:19:02
Speaker
the fifth
01:19:17
Speaker
I give this episode a red angel. I go first because I because no one trusts my ratings for some reason. So here we go. No one on Starfleet would trust my rating. So this is a 10 for me. So that's 210 zero. No, I'm telling you, I'm totally completely shocked at myself. But right.
01:19:39
Speaker
I if you say so but I'm really what okay what happens when a legitimately good episode of Star Trek Discovery comes out what happens when a Star Trek episode um on par with um Darmok the inner light the visitor what happens when a Star Trek Discovery episode comes out which is actually good right what happens or actually great I haven't been do you give it an 11 at 12 I consider the best episodes do you do you warp scale your rating do you like everything that you said
01:20:08
Speaker
My rating is consistent with the warp theories and limitations of Star Trek the next generation. After warp 9.999999, there's no conceivable way to truly understand a rating. Everything that has a tan is mixed and jumbled, right?
01:20:29
Speaker
Yeah, it's all like you're going to become a lizard at some point. It's a complex bag of emotions. And just I think that when I give something a 10, it's just for me personally, everything just worked on all all fired on all cylinders. And so far for me, I'm not saying I'm right. I could be wrong. I enjoy being on Starfleet, boy, because it's a no nonsense show. It is.
01:21:01
Speaker
I give it a 6.5. It's a 0.5 more than the previous episode.
01:21:11
Speaker
I think I wrote down what you gave the second episode, not that it's important. It's not, you know, the important second episode of Discovery season one. Yeah, I wasn't here with you. I think the first three episodes, I wasn't present. I think I came on at a later date. I came on with the I came on later.
01:21:30
Speaker
Oh, yes. But that was your first time on. This is like our anniversary, though, whenever that episode comes on. It's we're about to celebrate our Star Trek Discovery anniversary as friends. Oh, wow. Le anniversaire Star Trek Discovery. Jima Penz. So it's definitely Jima Penz. Definitely, boy. He he he hon hon hon. I wish.
01:21:57
Speaker
to devote a little time if you can spare it to talking about solo. This is the point of speaking. Please start a new video. We can if you want.
01:22:09
Speaker
Do you wanna do it on your channel or? We have to stop you now. You're like, no, I'm not gonna sully my channel with that nonsense. There aren't no Star Wars on trick on the tube, right? Gary's gonna hate me. Well, there's not supposed to be any Star Wars on Starfleet boy either. So here's the way we get around it.
01:22:30
Speaker
We're gonna do a live discussion. It's gonna be in the moment live. For anyone to join in and comment, whoever sees it, they'll be like, probably, I'm guessing, three other people. And then we archive it, so it's not on the prime timeline. It's in the time pimple.
01:22:49
Speaker
Okay. But I feel less adhering to Canon on my podcast, so I'll release it as an audio file. How does that sound to you? Okay, that's fine for me. All right, so now that we've figured out the logistics and you got a behind the scenes introduction of how Starfleet Boy works.
01:23:07
Speaker
This is the most organized, the Starfleet way organizations have ever been, right? I should tell you how I felt about this episode. I freaking took so many notes. There's like, listen to something else we didn't talk about was like Dr. Pollard. We didn't talk about Dr. Pollard.
01:23:23
Speaker
We didn't even talk about the revelation that Stamets thinks he's nuts, that he might be seeing things, and he confesses to Tilly. Tilly is hallucinating. Tilly is hallucinating. Well, we talked about that a little bit. You've been to an officer. Right. She thought that this girl who she knew in high school, who died apparently, which is kind of shocking. I will say something. The way that the episode was directed,
01:23:50
Speaker
was great regarding that hallucinated officer. It's just that I've seen so many movies and so many TV series that have hallucinated characters that only the protagonist can see, that it's become kind of a common thing. You notice these characters immediately. When there's a character that you've never really seen before that kind of comes out of the blue and that no one else notices, you automatically know that that's a hallucination.
01:24:21
Speaker
And so, but then they didn't drag it out for like multiple episodes. And maybe like, we know they did it very concisely in one episode. It was great. It was super balanced. And then at the end, when the church lights up, it's just such an emotion. It's I know, I know, but my heart just opened just like the.
01:24:37
Speaker
And so to answer your question and end this episode so we can do our solo discussion. Yes, I would place this among Darmok and all the other episodes. Really? I don't know why. I didn't say that. It's just I call I call. No, but it's interesting, right? Most intriguing, I would say.
01:24:59
Speaker
so thank you audience for joining us let us know what you think in the comments below if you made it this far i am super impressed because this was like one of our longest discussion ever you deserve a medal i feel for you you deserve a bridge clap a bridge clap oh my god that pretty thing yes you just you just invented the newest Starfleet boy thing so audience a bridge clap for you live long and prosper and we'll see you next time