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Star Trek Discovery Discussion: The Sound of Thunder
52 Plays1 year ago
Fate and the Red Angel would have it so that Saru ends up back on Kaminar caught between his duty to the Federation, his promise to Starfleet not to interfere and the real threat of annihilation facing his people. A very interesting episode with lots of questions and discussion. Join us and chime in with your thoughts below!
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Transcript
Opening Banter and Recording Anecdotes
00:00:01
Speaker
And I'm recording in stereo? Yes, I'm recording in stereo. On another exciting episode. Oh, are we talking? Sorry. It doesn't matter. Who cares? Interrupt them. Yeah. You don't have to record in stereo, but I don't mind. I'll downgrade it to monoral. There's some more work. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, anything that make your life harder is actually the best idea. OK, so I'm going to do my recording in multiple cuts.
00:00:31
Speaker
Yeah, that's right. I'm hoping that my computer crashes halfway through this discussion and then half the audio is just fucking dead. That happened last time with something? It did, but it saved it though. It did. It did save it. Yeah, it was cool.
Personalized Calendar and Birthday Jokes
00:00:46
Speaker
First and foremost, Sean thinks it's Gary's birthday and so we all think it's Gary's birthday. I have a personalised calendar at home and it says it's Gary's birthday, so if I'm not mistaken. I have a lot of questions about that. Gary's birthday? No, just the fact that you have a personalised calendar at home.
00:01:07
Speaker
with all of our birthdays, or is it just Gary's birthday? I think it's just Gary's. I think I don't know you guys' birthdays, which means you're probably not on the calendar yet. But you could be on next year's calendar. You could make it to the calendar. What is it? What do you, Brett Kavanaugh? Mine is May 11th. I've got to write this down. Don't forget to schedule your workout times with Squeak.
00:01:33
Speaker
so hey may 11th what's the year is there a year on that yeah 1970 1978 i'm the oldest one here 1978 this is pre tng
00:01:44
Speaker
Yeah, that's a pre-TNG. I'm going to gate keep time from you guys. That sounds like something you would do, a TOS fan. You guys can't have the 70s. You're not allowed to have the 70s. You can't have YouTube. You're too old.
Gatekeeping in Fandoms
00:02:05
Speaker
That's right. That's right. It's funny you say that because I was talking about being an older fan of Trek. I was actually talking to my dad earlier today and I was telling him about
00:02:15
Speaker
how everyone's like freaking out and like the gatekeeping and all that stuff like that. And he's like, why don't you just get on YouTube and just tell people it's just a show and that they shouldn't take it so seriously. And I'm like, yeah, that's gonna work perfectly. Let me tell you all about that. Everyone's gonna love that. I was like, he's like, well, you know, TOS was the best show. I mean, you don't need to say anything else more than that. Get out of my way.
00:02:38
Speaker
Yeah. On that subject, everyone pause, everyone pause this video or your podcast and head over to Kat Walski's YouTube page and watch his video on gatekeeping. It was actually, I was like super, not that it was actually awesome. I mean, I expected it to be awesome, but it was really awesome. It was really, I didn't see it in advance this time. I feel betrayed. I know. Yeah. I delayed this recording so I could go watch it and I was, I was very pleased. So thank you. Like I upload that video like six days ago.
00:03:06
Speaker
And it's just been sitting there because I was like, I don't want to release it yet because everyone's still freaking out about the midnight's edge video. So I let it, I have to let that hatred die down because if I release a video too soon after that, I'm just going to get a bunch of downvotes. You know, the anger, the salt is strong.
00:03:29
Speaker
I'm interested to watch a video actually because I find I think gatekeeping is a word that's been invented not by the gatekeepers themselves but by people that are threatened by them but um uh I mean the term itself I think is it's a very defensive itself is I think new
00:03:47
Speaker
ish but I would say the concept of it which I do talk about in the video is like it's it's been around since forever you know it's been around for a very long time and and I don't want to talk just about like that for this video but like the story that I talk about in the video is like when I was like a kid like I say a kid but I was you know you know late teens when I first joined the military and
00:04:08
Speaker
I got shut down by an old school comic fan because I told my wife the Iron Man movie, you know? And he was like, oh, you don't have Tony, right? Yeah, his fake name was Tony in the story I told. I suppose there's a fine line between shutting people down and encouraging them to learn more about where the franchise comes from, I suppose.
00:04:30
Speaker
Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you know and then that I think that's again That's why I made the video is just because people like to just spout it off and it is a very serious problem now But right there's a there's a bad experience to kind of you're gonna watch the video But to sum it up you got real real real real and vulnerable there and I really appreciated that because it's a universal experience I think we've all kept a gate of some sort whether it's like Star Trek or Dungeons and Dragons or whatever something that
00:04:56
Speaker
Yeah, whatever it is. It's like something that we've all done it before and you realize quickly when it's kept on you how bad it is and so it's like a learning experience I think that many humans go through and like yeah, so I definitely like I'm glad I learned I was burned early too with a gatekeeper on something completely different which is Star Wars actually and I You know and so I feel like oh, you know learning that at a young age
Star Trek Discovery and Fan Reactions
00:05:24
Speaker
I was more conscious of it and I don't tend to get keep consciously but um, but yeah, it's like it's an interesting thing and it's definitely a subject With that you've both actually been through this Yeah times and even even before YouTube like before you like YouTube is
00:05:42
Speaker
Like you're on the internet, you're saying things, people are going to say that stuff. Like it's just, you know, part of pop culture now as part of it all. And then being a YouTube creator, content creator, or really anybody that produces shit for social media. Um, I think it's going to happen, but yeah, this happened to me.
00:05:57
Speaker
long before then, long, long before I did that. I've been bullied. I was bullied as a child, generally speaking. This isn't nothing to do with like Star Trek or anything. But when it comes to gatekeeping, I've never really experienced that because if someone comes at me with like an argument of, I don't know enough, I'm usually so argumentative and stubborn that I'm going to go and learn everything I can and then come back at them and be like, well, now that's a really, that's a really great and healthy response to being because I don't want to lose and I don't like being wrong.
00:06:25
Speaker
And so I will learn as much facts as I can, and I'll just come back at you with facts, which is very frustrating to be in a community with Midnight's Age and Doomcock and whatever exists, because you can't fight them with facts, because they thrive off fantasy land. So I don't even know how to handle that. Oh, sorry. Go ahead. Finish your thoughts. Sorry. No, I was going to say the thing is,
00:06:54
Speaker
like what's interesting is like specifically like midnight's edge like they don't do gatekeeping in their video but what they say and the information that they go about talking about it encourages other people to take that information and then gate keep others with it which is the whole reason I made my video to begin with which was
00:07:17
Speaker
a response back to that kind of mentality where they take the ideas that are being presented, and then they try to turn it on to other people. And it's like, well, oh, this is a new franchise, and it has a new license, and it's a new canon. So all of you guys trying to defend it are terrible, and you're not really Star Trek fans. That even happened to me on Twitter just recently. I was getting bombarded with all these tweets from people saying, somebody legitimately said to me that what I was doing was hurting the fandom by trying to say positive things about Discovery.
00:07:47
Speaker
But I understand their point, though. I can't sit there and feel like they're crazy. There's also this point of view where I'm not a fan of Discovery, per se, and I wouldn't want Star Trek to become like Discovery. I don't mind having Discovery within the franchise, but I wouldn't want the franchise to become like Discovery, if that makes sense.
00:08:07
Speaker
But the thing is, if there are so many people that enjoy Discovery, then eventually that will become the base format and replace what I knew before. And in that situation, I lost my franchise. So am I a gatekeeper for saying, hey, maybe we could not encourage so much the studio to go in that direction?
00:08:26
Speaker
Is that gatekeeping? I think it's okay to operate on two different levels. On the one level, you're invested in the television show because you've put so much thought and hours and hours of your time into watching it, and so you have this certain expectation, so it's perfectly natural to feel disappointed when the show is not meeting your expectation. On the other level,
00:08:52
Speaker
You're a Star Trek fan and you want more about the world and Discovery does add to the world building.
00:08:59
Speaker
knowledge of what Star Trek is, even if it's not exactly like what we what one might hope it is, you know, so there's like, I think there's like, those two levels, and it's kind of hard to like play at them. And I, you know, and then there's an added level for the three of us, we do these about it. So we kind of have to watch it. Like, I can't just like, I can't just say like, Oh, this is just
00:09:25
Speaker
You're a fan of Star Wars because you may be like the space fantasy aspect. It's more a space fantasy than a science fiction, right? Yeah, I would say I agree with George Lucas' assessment that Star Wars is a fantasy more than it's a sci-fi. I enjoy the sci-fi aspect of Star Trek more than I enjoy the fantasy aspect of Star Wars, right? And I wouldn't want Star Trek to become fantasy.
Star Trek Discovery Episode Summary
00:09:51
Speaker
Right. And Discovery seems to be pushing it a little bit in that direction because Oh, that's a great argument to have. They're doing the magical myself. I have nothing against myself. It's not magical. Paul Stamets. Paul Stamets is the real person. Go read his research.
00:10:10
Speaker
Okay, please don't go into that because that's I have tried a magic mushroom though when I was in Amsterdam This is not the right discussion it was more like the matrix and doing magical technology and stuff like that and if they would have pushed that and keep on pushing that then eventually Star Trek would become more like Star Wars and Then I would have no more Star Trek. I would just have two Star Wars and I don't want that right now
00:10:37
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I understand what you're saying. I do. So I really hope that what they're trying to do is have different visions. And really, they're going to make Picard TNG-esque, right? And Discovery is its own thing. Picard will be TNG-esque. Maybe the Wrath of Khan will be the original series-esque. Well, I would say that I would argue that I actually don't want the Picard show to be TNG-esque. And the reason I say that, the reason I say that,
00:11:06
Speaker
is I want them to create something that is unexpected, that is really good. And I would tie it back into another Patrick Stewart production, which was the film, Logan, which is by and by a superhero movie. It's supposed to, it has super humans in it. They have super powers. It's an X-Men film, but they took that concept and made it something totally different, which was really good. They made a really good script and had a really good film that a lot of people liked. I loved the movie.
00:11:37
Speaker
So I would want them to do something like that. Right, exactly. So that's why I say I don't want them to just sit there and say, well, we need to recapture TNG with the card show. I would prefer them to just do something new, unique, but good, like make it good. But I'm afraid of their new and uniqueness. I'm afraid of what they consider bold, and I'm afraid of what they consider unique. Don't be afraid. It's the undiscovered country. Also, Patrick Stewart said he's really turned on. I'm also not a fan of the undiscovered country.
00:12:03
Speaker
I know, I know you love Star Trek IV. Patrick Stewart said he was very turned on by what he was, what it's coming, you know, shaping up to be. So I'm excited. That excites me. I'm very, I'm very turned on that Patrick Stewart has turned on. Very much. I respect Patrick Stewart very much. And I'm very, very happy to see that he is part of the production team as well as being an actor. But he also decided to voice the poop emoji in the emoji movie, which means you can't, you can't.
00:12:35
Speaker
Are all your choices perfect, Sean? Like, let he who cast the first stone, or let you, whatever, I don't know the expression.
00:12:45
Speaker
Let Patrick be a poop. I mean, I take the fact that in the beginning of your career, it's fine. But like, if you're someone that's not important or not a legend, it's fine. But when you're someone of, so Patrick Stewart is like a living legend, right? He doesn't let him be a person, bro. Let him be a bro. I understand the point you're making, Shum, but at the same time, like I understand that Hollywood actors will take those kinds of roles.
00:13:13
Speaker
so that they can pay for, you know, a vacation or to do stuff. So why not be a character in like an actual movie, like one of the Disney productions or one of the Pixar productions? Why did you have to be in the emoji? Because it's fucking easy to do voice work.
00:13:33
Speaker
He didn't even have to disguise his voice. He was just Patrick Stewart's voice. They probably didn't even show up to his studio. They probably came to his house. House, it's true. It's true. Can you just read these lines? We'll manipulate them digitally later. Anyways, back to...
00:13:50
Speaker
Back to the point at hand, I have to try to be a moderator. Sometimes these discussions can get really interesting and go off in other directions. But real quickly back to the point, which is, first of all, happy birthday, Gary. We love you so much. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday to you. You chop so many vegetables. Happy birthday to you. Enjoy your vegetables, Stu. Enjoy your vegetables.
00:14:13
Speaker
I'm sure you're going to have some kind of carrot cake or something. I really love it when you're only peeled carrots in there. And audience, I know you love to see Gary too, and I'm sorry, I'm often disorganized. I just had a computer
Controversial Evolutionary Changes in Discovery
00:14:29
Speaker
crash, so I'm not as good at organizing these events as I should be, but I'm getting better every time, and that's all that matters. And today we're here to talk about Star Trek Discovery episode six of season two.
00:14:41
Speaker
The sound of thunder. Is that a demon's thunder? Is that what that was? Is the bowel thunder that you hear? The title of the episode is another reference to Greek mythology, but I don't know enough about Greek mythology to be able to pick up on all of them. Yeah, it is. I've read the one before I did my review. When you're worthy, do I have to talk about it in my video? No.
00:15:08
Speaker
now. Tell us about the Greek. I already forgot it. I'm sorry. She mentions Aeschylus and I didn't have time to look up Aeschylus and I didn't remember Aeschylus from school but I think it probably has to do with a lot of interesting things but I think we can probably come to the conclusions because this episode doesn't really, you know, it doesn't really like
00:15:30
Speaker
Take a lot to understand what's going on. I had to watch it twice though To understand it better. I do have to admit the first time maybe I was just too emotionally affected by it or whatever but but the second viewing I actually Understood a lot more a lot of questions were answered But who anyone of you guys want to do the quick summary or I'll try or I could give it a try and
00:15:53
Speaker
Oh, I'll do a great summary of this. Yes. Oh, my God. Yes. I love it. All right. Give the stage to you, Ketwelski. So the episode is centered around Saru going through puberty and him feeling very unsure of himself growing older. So he wants to deal with that. And while they're having a discussion about that,
00:16:21
Speaker
One of the new, I've lost count with how many red bursts there are. Originally there were seven, now there's, I don't know, whatever. So a new red burst appears. Yeah, it's ridiculous. A new red burst appears over Kaminar. The discovery goes there. Immediately Pike loses control of what's going on. The Ba'ul are like affecting the ship somehow and like appearing to like mess with the lighting and stuff.
00:16:46
Speaker
Saru freaks the hell out and starts wanting to go down to the planet to try to liberate. The whole point of them going down to the planet is to not liberate the Kelpians, but to just find out if anyone knows anything about the Red Woman, which is a stupid premise for them going down there to begin with. So him and Michael go down there.
00:17:07
Speaker
And they go back to his village, which was also a bad idea, because it's not like people wouldn't recognize him. Which, of course, they immediately run into a sister who immediately recognizes him. And they immediately violate the prime directive there. And then it escalates, because the Ba'ul want to capture and retake control over Saru. Haik says no. And Saru goes down to the planet to get captured anyways.
00:17:33
Speaker
and then the Ba'ul are going to kill him. And then we uncover through the magic of the sphere that appeared a few episodes ago that 2,000 years ago, the Kelpians were all post puberty and they were the dominant species on the planet and almost killed off all of the Ba'ul. And then somehow the Ba'ul got the upper hand and wiped out most of the post pubescent Kelpians and now keep them more docile by killing all the Kelpians off
00:18:03
Speaker
before they lose their ganglia. And they have established a new, essentially a new balance, a new order on the planet. And then they relay this to Saru. And then the discovery decides to use radio waves across an entire planet to force an evolutionary change for probably millions, if not hundreds of millions of Kelpians all at once. And then the red woman appears, disables all of the Ba'ul technology
00:18:31
Speaker
And then they just fucking leave and just, I guess, let them go about their day. And that's it. That's the end of the episode. That's a really good bare bones. Sorry. There's no some cobra. Just like the discovery writers forgot that. I forgot. Right. There's a scene right at the beginning where Cobra's like freaking out and he's like,
00:18:56
Speaker
the fifth
00:19:10
Speaker
I'm just, listen, I'm not gay, but that's an attractive man. Okay. They got him in there. You're looking for a doctor, right? Yeah. He's like, you guys need to check up. And he's like, yeah, I'm like, hell yeah. Okay. So he would break the hypo spray now. Right. Exactly. Wow. Yeah. Or a guy who was trapped.
00:19:29
Speaker
in for a long time. Looks like he's been getting a little bit of that protein. Like he's very well, he got he did get it. Is he more swole this this season? I think I would think so. Yeah. Okay. So his his new body because this is buddy.
00:20:08
Speaker
that was created through the
00:20:09
Speaker
What if he's like Aylia? It's like kind of like when Veeger reconstructs Aylia in Star Trek the Motion Picture. You're making Veeger references now? Kirk Unit. Why not? Kirk Unit, Culver Unit.
00:20:24
Speaker
I think the first thing, the first question I have from your summary is, is it puberty? I mean, I feel like the, I feel like the vahirai, is that what it's called? The vahirai. The vahirai. Sorry, I'm getting distracted from myself, but did you notice that Burnham said the ba'ul and then everyone else says the ba'ul.
00:20:52
Speaker
To be fair, Dumbledore says Grindelwald.
00:20:58
Speaker
That's true. I mean, he's been, you know, he's been intimate. I just think it's funny that Sanico Martin-Green, Sanico Martin-Green's on set with like everyone. And she's hearing everyone say, she's hearing everyone say ba'ul, but then she's like, I'm just going to say ba'ul because that's what I want to say. You know what's funny though? You bring that up as like an error, but that's,
00:21:24
Speaker
more realistic that not everyone would pronounce the term correctly because we were all on Starship in space and people were talking about if you wrote down the words about oh I'd be like that
00:21:38
Speaker
like, I wouldn't know how to say it, you know what I mean? Yeah, bail. Good point. But is it puberty? Because the Kelpians clearly reproduce. Like, I get what you mean that you're calling it puberty because it's a life change of some sort, right? But is it, I think it's more like, I don't know what I would say. I don't know enough about biology.
00:21:59
Speaker
We don't know. We don't have this. We're humans. We don't change like this. We don't grow horny spikes.
Narrative Structure and Character Focus in Discovery
00:22:09
Speaker
I'm calling it puberty as like a joke. I don't think it's... Yeah, I get it.
00:22:15
Speaker
I don't know, I mean it's just, it's whatever, you know, the Vahiraja and, you know, after that, they grow the crazy, what reminded me immediately of, which is,
00:22:30
Speaker
What are those? Play at the Venus flytrap teeth is what shoots. He can shoot darts from his neck, which if they don't use that again later is a huge missed opportunity. I agree. Okay. Isn't this similar to the way, the way like kiss evolves eventually?
00:22:51
Speaker
Oh, this is where my eyes blank gatekeepers keep me out. Doesn't doesn't kiss become a non corporeal being? Are you saying kiss like the band? No kiss.
00:23:04
Speaker
I thought you should just evolve the lift
00:23:24
Speaker
There is a connection because I feel like that's a theatric that the band KISS would definitely have is like spike things going from their necks and shooting out into the audience. It turns out that KISS weren't actually humans. They were Kelpians all along. Yes, thematically it makes sense. Yeah, it makes sense thematically.
00:23:40
Speaker
Were you guys surprised, were you guys surprised at the actual relationship between the Ba'ul and the Kelpians? Because we've been speculating on what it was going to be like. We thought that maybe the Ba'ul ate the Kelpians. We thought that maybe like they were, you know, as a joke, we were saying they were transporting them from their universe. You know what? I am surprised. I am surprised. And you want to know why I'm surprised is that
00:24:06
Speaker
The only thing that really didn't make any sense is why the Ba'ul would keep the Kelpians around. Because, like you just said, they didn't need them.
00:24:14
Speaker
Like they weren't harvesting their organs. They didn't need them for sustenance. Like there was no true like relationship between the two of them. You don't know that. Well, that's true. Fuel their ships. Well, that, that fluid that they swim around in might be all Kelpian blood or something. I don't know. Like it could, okay. So they, they, they, they essentially won the war 2000 years ago. Right. And, um, they only became war capable 20 years ago.
00:24:45
Speaker
So what if what if the bow is they had no war capability, but I suppose they did have tech I'm assuming that the war was between these very weak bow and these very strong Kelpians and so they developed tech to beat them Um, do they need Kelpians to power the tech maybe but the the problem I have with that though I have a lot of problems in this episode like the tech doesn't even like the bow or these creepy, you know
00:25:10
Speaker
slimy tar monster creatures, but yet they have drones that are like from the video game Destiny. Like the technology doesn't reflect- Shelyak. Shelyak. They live in these, like, these pylons of light. But like what I'm saying is-
00:25:25
Speaker
The Ba'ul live clearly are hanging out in these black puddles, right? Under the oceans. When did they have time to get out of the puddle, make a drone, and then what, did they get a rag and like clean it to make it look really nice? Like wouldn't it be covered in like black goo and shit everywhere? Did these go? Okay, so my biggest question was... Why do they even have hallways? Why do they have hallways on their command center? It's like there's... Originally.
00:25:51
Speaker
Originally, the Kelpians live on the beaches and the forests, right? Yeah. I think it seems like the relationship between the Ba'ul and the Kelpians are similar to that of the Gungans and the...
00:26:07
Speaker
Right, it's a symbiotic relationship. What happens to one of you will affect the other. You must understand. But we don't know what that symbiosis is. Even Saru on the beach with Burnham says that the relationship, they're so intertwined, but I couldn't actually see the intertwining. I do have to say that that's something that wasn't clear. It's like there seems more like a separation. It's like the Ba'ul's technology is to keep the Kelpians in this primitive state
00:26:36
Speaker
But what's the purpose of it other than perhaps the only thing I could see is that maybe the bowel being, you know, technologically advanced or maybe even maybe even in a twisted way are also advanced and thought they can't conceive of like killing the Kelpians for whatever reason. Of course, they set up a technology to mass slaughter them if they need to. But like, but like, I would say that that theory is blown out of the water by the fact that they have the ability
00:27:06
Speaker
and intentionally established a way to kill all of them all at once. So we have that two nuclear arms, right? Like we could kill all of our humanity can kill itself if it wants to, but we don't do it. So that is the question. Why don't- But we don't do that because there's mutually assured destruction. Killing off the Kelpians would do nothing to them other than their ability to live on the entire planet instead of a ship under the ocean. Why are the Kelpians still
00:27:34
Speaker
not advanced. Why are they still in this situation? Because the fact that they don't evolve, the fact that they don't evolve doesn't change shit, right? They can still like advance the whole society. The whole technology is created to keep the Kelpians at a certain level of industrialization, right? Like pre-industrial.
00:27:56
Speaker
That's what it seems like, though, because it seems like that is what it seems like. Right. But it seems like like if I was a kelpian and I suddenly figured out how to work a furnace and start forging steel, like a steel, they would call you, kill you. They would call me and blow up my steel door and then they would make it so that the priests would keep that shit on lock. They would like the steel people. Yeah. Right. That's that. I agree that it wasn't established. But I'm willing to accept that that's what they're doing in the background. But right. The relationship as to why
00:28:26
Speaker
they keep them alive is not really they have to be using them in order for the story something right i agree but they have to be using the kelvin's for something they might be they might be eating them but then they would have just cut saroo up and eat them on their ship right but um they they might i don't know that's unclear unclear they are using them they have to be because then it makes this whole thing pointless so that's definitely
00:28:53
Speaker
maybe we'll get an answer to in the future. Uh, but that was definitely something that like kind of, you know, I think could have been answered in this episode very easily. It could have been answered in a line or in like, you know, some kind of thing. Uh, I guess we'll go with that. Can we get into the big thing? Can we get into the big thing? Which is yeah, that they should not discovery should not have
00:29:19
Speaker
forced the evolutionary change on the Kelpians. I understand that they were being subjugated. I understand that they were being slaughtered and culled. But the discovery did not have the moral legal right to force an evolutionary change on every single Kelpian in existence on that planet. They didn't have the right to do it. And they shouldn't have. It's not even a protected planet. It's not a Federation planet. They're not Federation citizens. This is an alien world.
00:29:49
Speaker
with alien culture and alien society. And just because we disagree with it, as I say, we as in like humans would disagree with what they're doing because that's what they're presenting to us in the show. We would inherently disagree with what they're doing. We don't have the authority and right to intervene.
00:30:05
Speaker
They were in a tough spot though because they only decided to do that once the Ba'ul said, oh yeah, well, okay, like if you're not going to return this guy to us, then we're just going to like, you know, destroy all Kelpians or whatever, you know, like there was one village or one village or whatever. And that was killing everyone on second viewing. Like I did have.
00:30:30
Speaker
still have that problem. Don't get me wrong. But I've softened a little on the position because on the second viewing, it seems like what's the name of Saru's sister? Sorry, I forgot. Serana. Serana, thank you. Saran Wrap. Serana is the one who actually like
00:30:48
Speaker
basically requests that all the Kelpians be somehow, you know, enlightened. And then they come up with this crazy plan of like, well, that frequency worked on Saru, so let's try it on the whole thing. I do think that we need a follow up episode where things go to shit. Like I do think that like we need
00:31:05
Speaker
another visit to Kaminar where we see the repercussions of these actions and I think that like yeah maybe Pike should maybe this could be like a mark on Pike's you know record you know we don't know you know much about Pike so it would be fine to have
00:31:21
Speaker
something like that. But I mean, it would be neat. It'd be interesting if Discovery goes in that direction. I don't think it's going to do anything. Okay, so it would be so interesting to me if we were to come back to this plant in season three and see that the Kelpians have just, they've wiped out the bowl, right?
00:31:36
Speaker
And they would. They are predatory species because it's established that they run fast, they're very strong, they've got spikes now. They were made to be the predators, right? And so it would be really interesting if they're just in vengeance. They just wiped them out. They've stolen their tick and they're learning how to use the freaking tick. And now they've become a threat.
00:32:00
Speaker
maybe not that big, but they've at least destroyed everyone. And so when we go back, we're like, holy shit. And so not only does Pike have to live with that, but Saru has to live with the fact that his decisions essentially is to get at a genocide. And if they do that, which I really don't think that they will.
00:32:19
Speaker
That would be some heavy, heavy shit. That would be one of the best arcs regarding the Prime Directive. Yes, absolutely. Because you actually get to see... Because again, we've never seen the impact of a very terrible wrong decision being made. We've been lucky that the violations have turned out in our favor, and so to speak. Yeah, you're right. And the thing is, several things are at play right at the end of the episode. We know for sure that
00:32:48
Speaker
The Kelpians are super strong and super fast. We know that for sure from what Saru did in season one. We also know that Saru has trouble controlling himself when he doesn't have fear to hold himself back from the Pablo episode. The Blue Planet episode establishes that a Kelpian without fear is the most
00:33:08
Speaker
It's super dangerous. And he's super dangerous in the episode as well. He establishes that. So all of these guys are going crazy. So right, that's two things that they've established already before we even get into the episode. Just as beginning as a, Saru's going crazy because he doesn't have his ganglion anymore and he's being an aggressive a-hole. They do drop that element in the story about, right as he meets his sister, they don't touch on that fact that Saru's being really aggressive again. They don't touch on it anymore.
00:33:35
Speaker
But he seems to get it under control. The thing is, though, is now there's millions of Kelpians that have been... Keep them... Again, like... And without the benefit of Starfleet... I don't think they... And they just got... It just happened to them. How many of them are gonna be like, well, what the hell, dude? I didn't want this. Would you have preferred the decision... So keeping in the same, like, the same vision, right? Like, keeping the same intent...
00:34:05
Speaker
Would you have preferred if they had, say, for example, just shut down all the bowl tech rather than force evolve everyone? They had shut down, like they'd stopped the balance and let those that needed to evolve evolve, for example. I actually think if they go further with this, it's an interesting story. I think if they go further, it is an interesting story. That's what I think. I agree with you there. The other thing I wanted to touch on though is the last thing is, is Pike raised the objection of doing this, the evolution thing.
00:34:35
Speaker
and Burnham assured him very foolishly that all of the Ba'ul have the technology, so it'll be a long time before the Kelpians ever become a threat to the Ba'ul. And then right at the end, the Red Woman shows up and deactivates all of the Ba'ul technology on the planet. So now they're actually equal again.
00:34:59
Speaker
were the Kelpians who are going to be super pissed when they find out that the Ba'ul have just been killing them for no reason, and the Ba'ul who live in these weird pools that now have no technology with which to defend themselves, and the discovery just fucking leaves. Like they just left.
00:35:17
Speaker
Okay, so here's my question. Does that make- You destroyed their whole culture and then you just left. Does this make this a bad episode or does it mean that you disagree with the way that this specific Starfleet vessel and characters dealt with the issue? Because I think that the episode is still interesting and good because it presents to you two new alien species. It shows you the backstory, how they work or how the relationship doesn't really exist, et cetera. It shows you all of these interesting things
00:35:45
Speaker
And the problem is dealt with in a way that we essentially disagree with. But does it make it bad television? Apart from the fact that Saru beams off the ship when you're ready to look with the shields up. But a lot of people do that. A lot of people do that. We're going to get to the nitpick corner. We save all this stuff for the nitpick. We have a new segment on the show called the nitpick corner. And we go all out. Go all out on the nitpick. No, I would say that the reason why I consider it to be a bad episode is
00:36:16
Speaker
just based off the plot they established their a and b stories right at the beginning and then they dropped the they dropped the cobra subplot and then they also dropped the suru being angry subplot i don't i don't feel like but they didn't touch on it again like he doesn't act like an a-hole any other time okay i would i would argue that he was being an asshole because he wanted to do something
00:36:39
Speaker
And then when he started, like when he was able to do that something, he didn't need to be an asshole anymore. He was with a sister and he was accomplishing the thing that he wanted to. So he had no reason to be an asshole anymore. So the Kelpians, millions of Kelpians are only going to be an asshole when they want something. Yeah, that's going to be great for their culture. No, it's not. No, but no, you see what? OK, the thing is, if if I wanted something like.
00:37:01
Speaker
Not talking generally speaking, just like as a person, when something frustrates you, you tend to get a little agitated or irritated. And when things are going your way, then you calm down. And I thought it was just that. He was angry because he wanted to do this. He wanted to do that. And then when he was able to do that, he was calm. So is that now every time that Pike disagrees with him, he's just going to smash his console?
00:37:26
Speaker
Maybe. And we talk about that scene. And that's what we talk about. It would be amazing to have an entire arc, because the data character turned out good. The spot character turned out good. All of these characters turned out to be good characters. It would be amazing if Discovery said, well, our character turned out to be the worst friggin' decision stuff he's ever made. We should never have granted him asylum. We should have never brought him on, because now he's instigated a friggin' war, and he's mad. And throughout these next few seasons, he just
00:37:55
Speaker
I don't think that's what's going to happen. They'll never do this. I feel like Saru, I feel like that's a great idea. I just don't think that's what lays in store with them. I feel very strongly that Saru is going to be one of these characters that is going to find redemption somehow. But I think it's interesting if they do it the other way. I think that would be very, very cool. They distanced themselves from the episodic format because they claimed that the episodic format of TNG resets.
00:38:21
Speaker
at every episode, right? But then, and they say that they're doing serialized TV and that everything's going to have lasting repercussions and impact.
Serialized vs. Episodic Storytelling in Discovery
00:38:29
Speaker
That's not true. Nothing in Discovery has any impact on anyone whatsoever. And every time they just go back to base Burnham, base Saru, base Stamets, every time. I would say another thing that is starting to grate me a little bit, and I know we're about to ramp this up again because Spock is on the next episode,
00:38:52
Speaker
It just seems like last week's episode was... It's just really frustrating, because first we had Saru dying, right? And that was Michael Burnham's best friend is gonna die. Then we had Tilly Trapped and the Micello Network. Then it was Michael Burnham's best girlfriend that was gonna die, and we had to get her back. Now this one, it was again Michael Burnham's best friend that had to deal with his sister. Now we're gonna deal with Michael Burnham and her brother. And it's like every single thing is Michael Burnham and company.
00:39:21
Speaker
but then she's the main character though. But it still bothers the shit out of me. It still bothers me. It's like, it's Michael Burnham and crew, you know? And it's like, it's just every episode is revolving around how he's dealing with- It's really tough stuff because we're kind of conditioned, and rightfully so, to like really align with the captain or as the main character of a Star Trek show. You know what I mean? Like, it's like, that's how like we've been used to seeing it. And, you know,
00:39:50
Speaker
I have to say that there are times where the Michael Burnham central plot thing, I think why it doesn't work is because it seems like it's what Sean and you have been saying. I think Sean especially says this, it seems like the writing is, you can see through the writing. It's obvious that they're making it about Michael, right?
00:40:09
Speaker
Uh, so I do I think that the show should I think the show should like as much as I love seneca martin green And I love you know, I do love uh, the character overall like I don't you know I have some small qualms with her like in the in the first season especially I was like, this is so weird like a resident starfleet officer to behave. It's just like a lot of things, right? But anyways like yeah, but like but like aside from that like I do think that the show should shift to an ensemble show
00:40:35
Speaker
I feel like it's trying to do that. I feel like the show is trying to be more inclusive this season of other characters. There's so much time left, I think. I think after this season, it might be... So, okay, guys, the Red Angel, it seems to me like they are taking this to a Burnham end. I think that Burnham is the Red Angel. I don't know why I feel that way, but I just feel like... The thing is...
00:41:05
Speaker
But do you think that maybe that's going to be the shift? Like, maybe Burnham leaves the show. That would be weird and crazy, but it could happen. No, they won't do that because they want a female Black lead, right? So they won't do that. Not until the show's over, right. I have no problem with Michael Burnham being the focus. What I have a problem with is we don't see... How should I say this? We're not seeing Starfleet through her perspective.
00:41:31
Speaker
um because the Starfleet that we know and that has been established to exist in Star Trek doesn't exist in Discovery. If we were following Michael Burnham all the time but then she would walk in say to Pike's office and Pike would be sitting there right at at the end of the table at the conference room and there would be a chief engineer that doesn't exist yet there would be a chief engineer it would be a chief medical officer he would have the bridge crew and she would walk in and then Pike would stand up
00:41:58
Speaker
and start talking with Burnham. We would follow that Burnham perspective, but you would also know that there was a Starfleet hierarchy and a Starfleet structure going on on the ship.
00:42:10
Speaker
you would know that that exists. But for the moment, what they've established is no one friggin matters on the ship, only Burnham does. And that's the problem. I don't think that's true. I disagree with you. I think that this season, I think that... No, I agree that there are weird... I agree that there are weird... I agree that the show is weird.
00:42:36
Speaker
Should be in his quarters at that point I Understand the point that you make because I know so have that I know that you disagree But I want to throw this on you real quick before you do your response to what Shawn just said which is what what something that irked me a lot was right at the end towards the end of the episode when they were getting when Saru was trying to contact discovery with his makeshift communicator and
00:43:01
Speaker
That's my whole nitpick corner, by the way. Go on. The Tom's guy says we're getting a hail from the Ba'u, and Pike turns to look at Michael for, like, I don't know whether support, affirmation, authorization, and then she says, we should take that. And then he turns and says, go ahead. But this is the same guy who, just last week,
00:43:28
Speaker
Ash Tyler says, he runs around and says, why don't you shut the fuck up unless you're being talked to? And it's like, how is that guy also the guy who has to ask Michael? I was a little perturbed. I was a little perturbed. I was perturbed by that dynamic. But I was also perturbed that the bridge got a little out of control with the Saroo situation. I would have thrown him into the brig. I would have been like, I would have put him down.
00:43:58
Speaker
I feel like all of the captains that have dealt with Burnham and Saroo over the years have been bullied.
00:44:07
Speaker
Because Burnham and Saroo, they're like a force of bullying officers, right? I feel like they bullied their way onto the bridge. And now they're just pushing people around. They're making the calls. They're making the shots. And everything they do is terrible. At least the gate is the war. We're destroying Canada. The gate is the war. It's everything they do. There's two wars for them. That's two wars. Now they're going to be in Baur.
00:44:35
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, goddamn, one can't one can't accuse discovery of being low stakes, I guess, but but but yeah, that's actually that's a really good point. But I do think I do see I feel that the show is attempting to course correct in even this as well. I do agree that I think that the show is
00:44:55
Speaker
to trying its best to kind of bring it back to what feels more balanced, more right. I don't think the experiment of a Lower Decks personnel, which she's not, she's a commander, worked. Like, I don't think it's interesting to just follow one character. That's wrong. It was done wrong. That's the problem. You can follow a First Officer and the evolution of a First Officer throughout stuff, and it would be very interesting, right? Yeah, it's called Riker. We follow his whole journey. No, no, no, because, you know, it's not true.
00:45:24
Speaker
that's not true he exists within the cast but you're following the story of Picard and um Data essentially but Picard because you know everything that's going on on the ship at all times if you were to follow the evolution of an officer then at first you would have like a first season where he just knows what's like going on on the lower dicks that's interesting second season he's on the bridge maybe or she's on the bridge the officer is seeing more of what's going on but then you could do like
00:45:51
Speaker
becomes first officer is more aware as part of the staff meetings, et cetera. And then eventually I think, I think the show, I think the show should have been even more bold and started with Ensign Burnham or Cadet Burnham. Like I think it should have, I think it should have gone even further and that way she can make these kinds of mistakes and we're like, Oh, but she's just a cadet. Right. Like, or she's just, you know, I mean like a commander, I don't come at the time. Right. Well, because again, like we're saying like she's a commander, she's a science officer, but,
00:46:21
Speaker
One of the things is, is that she was a first officer on the Shenzhou for probably several years. Seven. Yeah. Seven years. Seven years. So she's ready for the command chair. And actually, I'm surprised that they were giving her a pardon for what she did. And they gave her a medal. Why didn't they just give her the captaincy of the discovery? Why didn't they just put her as a captain? Right. I don't know. But the thing is, the thing is, though, is Saru's going to be the captain of the discovery at the end of the season.
00:46:49
Speaker
I think so.
00:47:07
Speaker
I did write a note in my in my watching that for some reason like I've been kind of like kind of on and off about the Kelpians the makeup like the whole idea of like how they are and everything like that for some reason and and kudos to the performers behind the masks but they felt real the realist in this episode despite all the flaws with the episode I felt like they were like very very tangible as characters as aliens I really enjoyed that
00:47:33
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, Doug Jones, of course, always does good. And they hired a phenomenal actress, Hannah Spear, who just kills it as Saran Ram. And, you know, I feel better than Saru in this episode. Say what? Saru's sister, Sarana, is better than Saru in this episode. Right. She was I think that I think that both of them together were a real highlight. And I honestly felt they were siblings. Right. You actually like when they met, when they saw each other, like,
00:48:03
Speaker
like you know like I felt something when I was watching the episode you know like when they saw each other and she drops the basket he takes the hood off like I was like man this is like the acting is very good like the act like there's no question in my mind is you know whether the acting was good or not and I actually kind of wish that we had just spent a bit like I wish that
00:48:25
Speaker
the story was a little reworked and it was more about Saru going back to his people and trying to maybe try to work with them about trying to overthrow the Ba'ul or maybe he was just going on a personal journey because he lost his ganglia, he needed to go back home. And then we just spent more time with the two of them and maybe like, I was really, really disappointed that his dad was gone. I was disappointed because I for sure thought that we were gonna have a father
00:48:53
Speaker
daughter's son dynamic going on that was going to be ideology based and they were going to be butting heads and
00:49:01
Speaker
And I think that that would have made for a stronger character episode. I did like that Serana is the high priestess. I would have liked the father to be alive. I would have loved it if the father was somehow complicit in the Bible. Like when you become a high priest, you know stuff. That's something that would be interesting to show us. If they showed us that the high priests
00:49:27
Speaker
are actually in contact with the Ba'ul, but they've established that the High Priestess, like no one has seen the Ba'ul in over however many years. They get a little bit more info, but they haven't laid eyes on them. But it would be interesting that like, even if they've never laid eyes on them, they contact, they talk with them, they're in contact with them, and it's explained that
00:49:45
Speaker
The bowel come up with this shit story that you guys need to do this because if you don't do this, then this will happen and you'll die and what have you. And this is part of the balance. But then these guys are like basically complicit, but they're also being brainwashed or they're being. I don't know.
Short Treks and Discovery Integration
00:49:59
Speaker
Or no. So the thing is, is is it could easily be like we need the Kelpians to power something or we need them for sustenance and you need to provide us a few of a few of your people to do that. And if you don't do this, we're going to wipe out your whole culture and
00:50:15
Speaker
And then right, then it puts it back under the priests of like, I don't agree with this. This is terrible. But if we don't play along, we're going to be overpowered easily and all be killed. And right, there would be complicit, but they would be stuck. It would be a catch 22. Right. And then that would be Saru's chance to really rise up and say like, no, we can do this and we can, we can do this. And then that's when the discovery and the Federation show up and say,
00:50:37
Speaker
we're going to support these people and we're going to help liberate them from their oppressors. And then that's a different story. You know what I mean? Like that's another story as opposed to what we got, which was very like to me, it just felt kind of a little bit disjointed and all over the place. And I just felt like we could have spent more time with the sister and him. And again, like the dad, the dad not being there was a huge, huge, huge, huge missed opportunity.
00:51:02
Speaker
You know, I think very, very big missed opportunity there. I think also this this episode could have benefited from being a little longer or perhaps a two parter. Like I think that it could have been.
00:51:12
Speaker
you know, like, fleshed out a little bit more and you could have had, like, more impact and could have... That's a lot of... Excuse me, I'm burping from my beer. So Pro, hashtag So Pro. I did write a note that I felt like Serana's makeup also was somehow subtly an improvement on Saru's makeup. Like, there were a little bit more... There were, like, interesting purple-y kind of pinkish colors in there and just, like, smoother. Like, I just felt like... I don't know, something about her makeup was very pleasant compared to Saru's which...
00:51:42
Speaker
Yeah, the mouthpiece around the lip. Oh yeah, you can see her teeth. You don't see Saroo's. Saroo's makeup is not good. Yeah, Saroo's makeup. It's never been good. It's good in certain parts, but like especially like in this area, it's very noticeably bad. And I know, I pointed that out during my Klingon video. You can't act before that. They do the same thing with the Klingons where they add the makeup, but you can see the person's lip.
00:52:06
Speaker
separate from the Klingon lip in a lot of... Oh, interesting. So for Saru, they just covered it. So now that's why you can't see any of his mouth. You can't see any of it. I say, I mean, we've had redesigns of makeup before. Let's see Doug Jones' teeth, guys. Let's get that. Show us. Hashtag release the teeth. That's a second evolution. He loses half his jaw. He just walks into the bridge and he's just Doug Jones.
00:52:34
Speaker
You know, that would be, yeah, listen, when's the last time you saw Doug Jones act that he wasn't in makeup? Not that. Super expectations. Actually, when I watched Black Panther, I saw there was, so U.S.D. score is Andy Serkis.
00:52:51
Speaker
And I was surprised to see Andy Serkis just being Andy Serkis. I was like, oh, oh god. I haven't seen this in a while. There's absolutely room for Doug Jones to appear as himself. There's no reason why they can't do that. I think that would be a fun thing to do.
00:53:06
Speaker
Human well, I really love to have in it. They've done the switcheroo with the area. Yeah Can we talk about that scene real quick? So what's going on there like with the sphere being a Slice, what do you think what do you guys think with the slice of pie? How's it all gonna factor in the thing? nobody's talking about this nobody on YouTube or Twitter or
00:53:29
Speaker
on the blogs are talking. We're doing it. We're doing it now. Nobody's talking about the short trek Calypso. And the reason I bring it up is there are several key things that are happening in there. One, it's 1,000 years in the future. Two, he's stuck in an escape, an enemy escape pod with an episode of Betty Boop on replay. I don't understand. An episode of Betty Boop on replay, which is weird. What is going on?
00:53:58
Speaker
And then he questions like, oh, that was part of the old society. He says something to that effect, to the computer. There's obviously something happening. Something happened to the Federation. And then something happened to where the discovery was left at a specific spot for easily 1,000 or more years. And I feel like that concept is going to tie in with the sphere and with
00:54:29
Speaker
the Android chick. And I really do. Sorry, I'm sorry. I really feel like even her voice, the way she talks, the way she speaks, sounds eerily similar to the voice of the computer that we hear in Calypso. I feel like those things, there was a reason they made the Calypso episode. They're not going to spend, you know, $10 million
00:54:51
Speaker
on an episode for habit to not be. Were those short track episodes like 10 million bucks? The short track episode must have cost like $10, right? Because they filmed it in the Discovery set. You know what? I praised the brightest star because I said, hey, look, this feels like they've actually invested in it. They've made a set. They've done CG. But it turns out they didn't. They just reused the set from a Discovery episode. But it works. It works.
00:55:18
Speaker
What came first? The chicken or the egg there? I agree. Yeah, exactly. The short treks first. Does it matter? They knew they were going to do the Discovery episode anyway, so even if they did the short treks episode first, then it was an investment well spent. Well, I think that they did that for all of the short treks. The short treks were just Discovery sets though, weren't they?
00:55:37
Speaker
But I would say two out of the four were. I would argue that the... Oh, yeah, the mud. The mud ones are pretty... The mud sits, all of the mud sits were in episode one of season two. But still, they did a good job of doing different angles or regressing the sets, I felt. They had the two different bridges, the one that mud was actually on and then the one that the Tellarite... The Tellarite Bridge was a reset of Spock's Quarters.
00:56:07
Speaker
Was it? I have to watch it again to check. I couldn't tell. It was good. Anyway, I'll check it again. Yeah, yeah. But... I don't... I simply believe you have to take it. Without going back into the Discovery show. They're going to tie all the short treks back into the Discovery... I don't think so. I think... The fact that they retconned the brightest star means that the short treks don't matter.
00:56:32
Speaker
How do they retcon? What do you mean they retconned it? Georgiou comes in on the Shenzhou shuttle number three in the British Star. In this episode, it's explained that she comes from whatever other ship it is. Archimedes. Are you sure? And they took off the SHN from the ship, from the shuttle. They retconned what ship she was on.
00:56:53
Speaker
It means they don't... Are you serious? Yes. They made these things. It was interesting. They're just trying to release one episode a month on their streaming service so that people will watch them, but they don't matter. Because the Tilly thing, Tilly should have been court-martialed for what she did. What she did doesn't exist. What she did will never be brought up again, ever, because it doesn't matter. All right?
00:57:17
Speaker
The short-trades don't count. Wait, so you're certain that she comes in on the Shenju shuttle? Yeah. I don't remember. She comes in on the Shenju shuttle, but does that mean that she was a part of the Archimedes? Because all that they said was the Archimedes is the one that tried to make first contact with them.
00:57:36
Speaker
but they did say that lieutenant they took away the episode they say in on the shuttle in the episode wait yeah in the episode it says lieutenant georgia was serving on the archimedes at the time they say they explicitly stated so that that is that's interesting i didn't even realize that that's like so interesting i gotta go i gotta go back i gotta go back here's the thing you're intelligent and you're inspired to
00:58:04
Speaker
believe that Ariam's voice is similar to the computer voice in Philipso. But that's because you're thinking of this in a very narrative story point of view. What's really happening is they just thought in very two dimensional ways, we need a computer voice.
00:58:20
Speaker
to do the computer. And on a very separate level, I think we need a computer voice to do area. And so just they made the voices sound similar the same way. Everything is blue, because every time they need something that looks or feels alien. Hey, paint it blue. You're saying you're saying they're winging it. And I'm saying they're winging it less. Yeah, I would say that they made a slight change to what happened in the brightest star.
00:58:44
Speaker
But I would say that the fact that the discovery, the USS Discovery has been sitting in the same place for a thousand years without her crew and the crew, the cabinet, the person that told the ship that it has to stay there, whether it's connected back to Arium or not, that's just a theory of mine. I just think it's going to work out that way. But separate that, I do believe that the fact that the ship itself has been sitting in the same spot for a thousand years
00:59:10
Speaker
is going, that story element will be tied in at some point. I have a direct message for CBS and the powers that be at CBS. Please go back to the brightest star and just change the name of the shuttle to the Archimedes. And that way, I mean, it's a digital world. George Lucas does it all the time.
00:59:37
Speaker
just make that little tiny change. It's only going to cost you a million dollars. Maybe. Maybe don't write like the initials of a ship on the shuttle. It's not necessary. It's not an element that is necessary in any way. Just don't write it right. I have to go back and verify what you're saying, but I believe you. Did you go back and like watch the show? Oh, you have it? Yeah. Nick is Nick is what?
01:00:05
Speaker
Boot it up. While Nick does that, I want to shift over back to Ariam for a second. I saw something on Twitter where someone said they thought it was a really creepy scene. Is this going to explain why we don't see automatons?
01:00:25
Speaker
Is there things like that? What is Ariel? Like, do you have any ideas? People have been talking about this. Why is what is creepy? I didn't think it was creepy, too. I thought it was cool. But still, I'm just saying, like, they just filmed a face from close up because they wanted to film a face as a close up. That's all. What bugs me is from what I understood, enhanced humans weren't supposed to be a thing. And she's clearly enhanced. Sean, you're 100 percent right. She literally says.
01:00:51
Speaker
a lieutenant serving in the Archimedes, the ship drops down and has no SHN on the front of it. You're right, 100%. Why the fuck did they do that? It's a useless brick home. That's the worst thing about it. That's it. WTF. Nobody's talking about that either. Nobody is talking about that. This is why Sean waits till Monday or Tuesday to release it. Why did they do that? This is stupid.
Leadership and Dynamics in Discovery
01:01:20
Speaker
Hey guys, why did you do that? I feel like that's a question worth answering. I feel like Star Trek Discovery, in its concept, the spore drive, the bow, all of this, if they had given it to people that were writing Deep Space Nine, right, RST and biocetera, they would have made such a good Star Trek with all of this.
01:01:41
Speaker
But they're busy. Deep Space Nine people are doing the Orville. And the Orville is fucking trash. But they're doing that. That's what they're doing. That's what they're on right now. You're not allowed to say anything negative about the Orville. I'm sorry. Nick, Nick, I'll tell you what. Especially on Gary's birthday. You think the prime directive here is like a wobbly, to say the least, or the general order one is applied in a weird way. There's this episode this season on the Orville where they like someone
01:02:10
Speaker
essentially their first contact prime directive.
01:02:14
Speaker
is like if someone reaches out to space, they can contact that species, right? Yeah. So you've seen the episode or not? The one where the two of those people get stuck in the concentration camp for a while. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. OK. So how biased is that episode? Because the whole concept is this species have based their system or their political structure on astrology.
01:02:42
Speaker
Right. And to maybe many of the scientific community, astrology isn't a real thing. It's not science. It's not something that society has done. Right. OK, but the thing is the oval doesn't treat this in a way that Star Trek used to treat things. Whereas we're presenting to you this. These are the two sides of the argument. What do you think about it? Have a discussion. The oval comes in and says astrology is dumb. Fuck people that believe in it. And this entire society is stupid. And that's the episode.
01:03:13
Speaker
Yeah, so I would compare that episode to an episode, so season, and I was going to take this whole conversation into the Orville, season two of the Orville. Yeah, we'll keep it a quick. Yeah, season two of the Orville is disappointing to me for separate reasons, and maybe we can talk about that offline. But the thing is, is there was an episode of season one in the Orville where they had the
01:03:35
Speaker
like episodes. Which is an episode of Black Mirror, but continue, carry on. You know, the thing with that is... Is that Saru? That's Saru, that's the drawing of Saru. Literally terrifying. I don't know, that's not Saru. I don't know who that is. That looks like... It will be. Once he's evolved seven times, it will be. That looks like the sketch of the leprechaun people we're seeing in Alabama.
01:04:07
Speaker
That would be a Kelpien, but if it was like a Rick and Morty easter egg Kelpien, that's right. That's true They had a episode with with the likes right and that was a good episode because they the Orville ship is
01:04:26
Speaker
had to play into the society to try to get their guy out of that situation. And it just so happened to work out. But again, it left it up to kind of the viewer to say like, Oh, this is like a serious thing. And people do really deal with this. It was a good, it was a good topic, because we deal with that relatively regularly on a regular day to day basis. The thing with the astrology episode is they just came up with a way to trick the entire planet into thinking that
01:04:53
Speaker
they were wrong about how they interpreted the different astrology signs. And then they got their people out of it, which is foolish. It was very foolish. It was a missed opportunity. It also upset me because it wasn't just a few days. I don't remember the exact, I don't remember all the details of the episode, but it was weeks or months that they were in this concentration camp. And it's like- At least a week or something.
01:05:20
Speaker
It was a long, it was actually, it was longer than a week. It was like, so it was like over a month because I remember they talked with Ted Danson, uh, Admiral Ted Danson over the VidCon. He was like, I know you've been there for X amount of time, but the Orville needs to get back to doing what it needs to do. Uh, so they moved on and may enforce them to do that. What are you showing me? So what are you guys that I got my first post on Instagram? That's more than a thousand likes. Oh wow.
01:05:47
Speaker
Is it a picture of you? It's a picture of the beautiful, oh it's gone. I saw it on Twitter and I re-posted it. It's not your sketch of Saru though. But you should click that. That'll get like 10,000 likes. Absolutely. Going back to Discovery because I know, I know we're, aww. Hi buddy. Hi.
01:06:16
Speaker
We got it. We can't go for three hours on these discussions, so I just want to bring it back to the story. Thank you for the awesome points about the Orville, because I still have questions. I actually have questions. Rapid fire. Where do you think we're going with Culbert? Nowhere. I don't want to go with Culbert. What would you like to see with Culbert? I didn't.
01:06:47
Speaker
expect them to make it about him feeling weird about his body. Um, I figured that they would make it so that they were weird around Tyler, but I have no idea where they're going with. I don't know what they're doing with the story. The, the scene with Culber made me really uncomfortable because I actually thought that like he might not even be feeling the same feelings for Stan. That's exactly for sure. And I don't know if they're going to head down that pathway.
01:07:16
Speaker
I don't know. I don't know what the fuck. Yeah, it was kind of an interesting thing. I really liked Dr. Pollard. I think she's cool. I hope she sticks around even though Dr. Culber's back. I think it's a funny sequence right at the beginning where she's like talking to Saru about his stuff and like she says something and then like
01:07:32
Speaker
The camera has to like pan, like zoom in, you know, and cut into a close-up of Saru. So like she finishes her sentence and then she just like finishes it and then she just like turns and then like walks away. It's like super awkward as the camera's like panning in. It's, I don't know. Anyway, sorry, that was a...
01:07:49
Speaker
That same scene also, by the way, was pretty awesome. I liked how they went from the visual of Saru's lungs or whatever to the nebula. And it was also nice, Sean, since you're all Burnham-centric is bad, to see Saru narrating the episode. And I also want to point out that in a few episodes ago,
01:08:10
Speaker
They said last time on Discovery and Lorel was narrating it. So they are playing with these like interesting kind of like... But she's like...
01:08:26
Speaker
I guess the last thing that we need to cover is the whole dynamic with Section 31 and Pike. Tyler and Pike. Okay. Any thoughts on that? I have some thoughts. I asked last time, why does Georgia work with Section 31?
01:08:41
Speaker
So that's still a question. Why is Tyler so invested in it? Dude's not even a Starfleet officer. He's a Klingon, right? He's been apart for like 30 minutes. Why is he so invested in this thing? That he was invested in Starfleet because he was programmed to think he was invested in Starfleet. But then he goes, oh, Klingon. And then he's like, fuck Starfleet. I'm going to snap the boy's neck and then I'm going to run off, right?
01:09:07
Speaker
Why is he now all about this section? Like, what is Section 31? Why is it so inciting to all of these people? The Emperor of the Mirror Universe? That he feels some beholdenness to Section 31 because they essentially... Saved his kid? They saved his kid. And I can understand that. I really could. But the way that they played it in this episode, and that's what I've covered in my review, which is he just, the whole episode, he's just bitching the whole time.
01:09:34
Speaker
everything anyone's trying to do, he's like, well, that's not going to work. What are you going to do? You're just going to ask him for it? Well, you know, it is. I love pike lines like, well, you know, when you're coming into someone's home unexpectedly, it's always good to say so much for knocking on the front door. Man, rich. Why is he on the bridge? Pike is too lenient on the crew. I do. I do think there needs to be a little bit of a little bit of discipline there. It's a bully crew. That's the thing.
01:10:03
Speaker
The other wasn't though. And the other and just the last episode, he fucking checked Tyler and Tyler fucking back down. It was great. He was lying to him about what's going on, which they didn't cover again in this episode because she never had a conversation with him on screen about her relationship with Tyler. But he calls her on that shit immediately saying, that's not the Georgia I remember. And you're you're lying to me about your relationship with this guy sitting in that in that cafeteria right now. And don't play with me, girl. And this episode, he's like,
01:10:32
Speaker
Saru, I don't think you should talk during this conversation, and Saru's like, fuck you, Balu. Hey, Saru, come on, man.
Speculations on the Red Angel's Identity
01:10:40
Speaker
It's like really, yeah, I mean, like I get that the crew of the, yeah, I get that the crew of the Discovery's not used to having a captain or whatever's going on, but yeah, it's a little too disrespectful for my taste. I have to say that despite
01:10:53
Speaker
Despite my trepidation about the Red Angel, despite my trepidation about the Red Angel, the way that the scene was done was cinematic and beautiful and gave me goosebumps. I thought it was actually a pretty cool scene. What did you guys think? What is the point of the Red Angel? Well, we don't know. Well, we don't know. That's the mystery of the season. Right. You guys haven't touched it.
01:11:16
Speaker
I haven't yet. I have to buy a PC. I really don't. I don't want to turn it on. It's not the Iconians because the Iconians can't time travel. It destroys their minds. So that's the Iconians are off the table. Good. Nice. So the thing is, it's the less of the video game says it's not what Discovery says. Well, but, you know, they pull from it. You could. They do. They do pull from it and they can they connect because Discovery is on the video game now, too, along with their voice actors.
01:11:39
Speaker
So okay, they connect the same way that the Netflix Marvel series used to connect with the MCU All right, they get scraps and they try to you know, they're making they're making it up is the outfit that The red person is wearing this time-traveling being is wearing. It's a very similar What's up? It's the torch we're a suit. It's not the torch prophecy, but it looks very similar to the solanae Dyson sphere
01:12:08
Speaker
armor set that you get in the game. It's very similar in aesthetics to that particular armor set. So my thought is that these are going to be used. What Saru actually says is that the Red Angel is a humanoid wearing a mechanized suit with tech far beyond our present. And the Sohane are the ones who built the Dyson Spheres.
01:12:31
Speaker
And it's very possible that they will connect back into that. It's just a theory that I'm thinking about because when I saw the outfit, it immediately reminded me of the armor that you get in the game.
01:12:43
Speaker
Did you guys, at first viewing, I thought it was definitely a female, but on second viewing, it is unclear. I don't know if it's a male or female. Those are burning hips. No. Somebody made the comment on my video and I even said there, it is weird to base it off of that, but because we have no real information to go off of, we've got to go off of what we got.
01:13:02
Speaker
and just looking at the silhouette of the individual it appears to be female based off of the structure of the actual hips and in the way in dense inwards and then comes back up into the upper torso. I don't see discovery making it a male in there. You broke up, what'd you say? Sorry. See discovery making it a male in any case. You know well the thing is is
01:13:29
Speaker
They were leaving it very ambiguous, but now it's clearly, I think it's clearly a woman. If it's not, if it's not Michael Burnham. Okay. I have a question for you guys. Did you guys ever believe it was a man though? The Red Angels. I thought it might be.
01:13:47
Speaker
I think not thinking about a person specifically, not thinking about Spock or Burnham or Picard or whatever. In my mind, the Red Angel, the moment we heard about the Red Angel, it was like, OK, so there's this deity woman doing things, right? Well, angels in mythology, biblical mythology, angels are non-gendered. They're actually the original non-binary. Discovery is female. Discovery is female.
01:14:16
Speaker
I see the point that you're making. I would argue that my original thought, my original thoughts, even though they got rid of stories, father and they used his sister rather. Right. I would say that my thought process went from it being a completely alien species, you know, no genders involved to it being Spock specifically. And then now I believe now I'm at the point where I believe it to be Michael Burnham or
01:14:50
Speaker
The episode does tackle a question or raises a question of whether or not the Red Angel is saving these people or whether it's interfering in another way. And that's basically the debate between Tyler and Pike. I think it's pretty evident that the Red Angels got good intentions, but what do you guys think? I would love for it to be the other way. I would love it.
01:15:10
Speaker
the android character whose name I keep forgetting.
01:15:18
Speaker
for them, for Pike to be wrong here, and for the Red Angel to actually be not necessarily a bad person, but somebody who definitely was doing something for their own benefit and really wasn't.
01:15:33
Speaker
about like just saying stuff in the future. It would be an interesting take. So look, there's this all powerful kind of being is doing time traveling, it's doing, you know, population displacement. And you find out that they have their own kind of prime directive that they're trying to apply. But it turns out that like everyone else, they're biased, they have the objective, this objective, and they're doing what they think is best. And it turns out that in certain decisions, like some decisions aren't good, you can't blindly follow them.
Set Design and Continuity in Discovery
01:16:01
Speaker
because they might be wrong, the same way Pike was probably wrong in this episode.
01:16:07
Speaker
All right, cool. I feel like we covered everything. But if you guys have any more things to add, I'm going to go into the nitpick corner and just say that I hated where the passion that it was so obvious that the bowel bridge was the same transporter room that that Saru beamed out of just a minute, like a second. But in the same scene, he goes, he beams from the discovery transporter to the bottle chamber and it's the same fucking set and it annoyed the hell.
01:16:34
Speaker
So I would say this to that. I would say this to that. I don't know if we're supposed to respond back to the nitpicks, but... Yes, yes. My thing with that is I actually enjoyed the fact that it was a little cheap. And maybe that sounds terrible, but Discovery is so expansive with their visuals and it's always so breathtaking.
01:16:57
Speaker
but the fact that it was like they put like trash bags around the side to like make it look alien, you know, you know, it was just like, it was, it felt very like, like old school kind of like TOS almost like it was like, I guess it's true, but it was like a little nostalgia cookie of like, look at you using this. Look at you. I thought, actually, I thought the same thing. I had that same thought on, on Kaminar when they were walking through the little,
01:17:22
Speaker
path with the flowers I thought this is a very TOS looking it could fit like right into TOS with like Saru and Burnham wearing the you know the Kelpian robes or whatever I had that same exact feeling but I didn't feel that in the in the in the bridge scene but but the other thing is like how is everything you need to do in the same fucking place like why is it that like why doesn't Saru and Serana have to go to another room where to get the communications online
Modern TV Storytelling Techniques
01:17:47
Speaker
to another place to get the the signal to do you know like it just felt like why is it so and and and like why was nothing trying to stop them like how is it that like there were like why would the magic uh handcuffs that come out of like the walls
01:18:03
Speaker
Why don't they have fucking lasers or phasers that could shoot you and stop you from trying to like mess with their tech? Like it just seemed really that was my biggest nitpick. Why didn't the story doesn't give a shit they have They do plot convenience. That's it. Well, I mean a lot I I'm gonna say a lot of episodes of track and many other I know you but I have this
01:18:26
Speaker
But I agree. It's a modern television problem. This is a modern thing, right? This is like Star Wars episode, whatever it was, like Seven, right? The Force Awakens has the same kind of issues all over it, right? It does. And it's just because in modern television and in modern movies, you want to move the plot along and it doesn't matter if certain details don't matter, which is stupid. It's ironic.
01:18:54
Speaker
um where you have fandom which is more and more nitpicky you should be thinking about every single detail and every single thing but there's a clear disconnect between the people that are making these shows and making the movies today and the people that are watching i mean i mean i agree with you go ahead uh i would say i would agree with you but the thing is is when a film or television show is entertaining enough
01:19:18
Speaker
I see what you're saying about our fans being more nitpicky. You don't notice it if it's entertaining enough. You don't notice it. Like, even Avengers. Even Avengers is very entertaining. And I couldn't pick anything out of that. Avengers Infinity War? I could sit here and take it for hours about different things that they could have. What could have the cast members done? Like, what could have these characters done in the film to undo what has occurred? And
01:19:44
Speaker
The thing is, is when you're watching it, you don't think about it because you're entertained and you're wrapped up into the story. And right, if we were wrapped up into this episode of Discovery, the whole nitpick of certain things wouldn't have occurred to us if we hadn't gone back and watched it several times. And all of us, especially content creators, people who write about and talk about Discovery, like we watched these episodes multiple times in order to get everything that we need to get. So that's why we also hone in on things that other people who watch it once and then go on with their lives,
01:20:12
Speaker
may not have noticed, you know what I mean? Like, you noticed the Shenzhou thing. Like, I didn't even notice that, even though I've watched this full episode once and then I went through and grabbed all my clips. I didn't notice it the second time, second or third times going through. It's just, if it's entertaining enough, it doesn't really matter.
01:20:28
Speaker
So much about the nitpicks the first go through that's what I that's my point is that if it's entertaining enough like your nitpicks are okay because people won't pick up on it because they're wrapped up into what's happening on screen and that's what you want as a filmmaker. That's what you want you want people to be so engrossed.
01:20:44
Speaker
that they don't notice how stupid, like even The Dark Knight, which is a great Batman film that people love, the first sequence, the very first scene where the bad guys who are about to rob the bank blow out a window on a building far away from the bank and then zip line across the street. Beautiful scene and it looks cool but it's completely retarded and has no concept of any normal normalcy in reality of why you would be able to enter into the roof. They could have entered the roof several other ways.
01:21:11
Speaker
But it looked cool, and people were wrapped up in the story, so it worked. But you don't pick up on that until your fifth viewing of the movie. So I think that's my point. What did you guys think of The Bowel? It's the command base in terms of production design. And do you think it's strange that this is pretty much the most epic thing we've ever seen, at least? We don't see anything quite like this
01:21:36
Speaker
until the Borg, right? Like, they seemed huge, these ships, but then I don't know, maybe the Discovery Small, but...
Production Design Comparisons
01:21:41
Speaker
The ships in space, I loved that were surrounding the Discovery. The one that was below the water, I think, cost too much money for them to make it look exactly like Apophis' ship from Stargate SG-1. Oh, it did look like, or Stargate Atlantis as well, you're right. Like, it kind of looked like that too.
01:22:00
Speaker
It looked, or not Apophis, sorry, Anubis, like the thing that comes up out of it and then shoots the little energy rays and blows up all the other Hetak vessels. It looks identical to that. They spent too much money to make it look exactly like that. And I did like that the ships could change orientation. Because the Ba'u seem to live in this magnetic liquid or whatever, I did like that the ships could be oriented this way or that way, and they could move around in that way. I'm assuming that there's only that one room.
01:22:29
Speaker
and maybe another room with a hallway that aren't completely liquid. Dude, the ship is like 50 on the base. Yeah, it's like a pool in which all of these sort of founders are living, right? Get out of here with your founder's joke. Now listen, Star Trek loves a good pool, okay? Who's not living in a pool?
Plot Decisions and the Red Angel's Role
01:22:57
Speaker
Well, here in Florida, we live in pools 90% of our lives, so it's all right. Honestly, I know that. So maybe this comes down to what you were saying about Infinity War and how entertainment pushes away the nitpicks.
01:23:15
Speaker
I do have nitpicks about this episode but I was enjoyed by the episode and I think that the the I can argue all day about Pike's decision and I think we can all say that he made the wrong decision or like the wrong call was made regarding general order one but I'm okay with that I'm fine with the show making like I'm fine with the show showing us that people make bad decisions and I don't think that
01:23:38
Speaker
There being a bad decision makes the show bad. I think on the contrary, it enhances because this is the first actual episode that we've talked about thematically and in its concept, rather than about how good or how bad it was in itself.
01:23:54
Speaker
I also think there was no choice. I feel like this is kind of like in a rock in a hard place and it was either genocide, let allowed genocide to happen or try to intervene. And it ended up being actually the truth is they actually didn't do anything. The fricking red angel came in at the last minute. Burnham, mother Burnham came in at it and EMP the hell out of that point. Well, should I say to my video, like multiple bad decisions,
01:24:25
Speaker
led to it coming down to either we start shooting at the bowl or they commit genocide. Right. Right. Contact the first time and said, listen, we want that Kelpien. Like they should have just backed off. They should have just left the red signals that the signals gone.
01:24:44
Speaker
right the red woman is not readily apparently there they should have easily they could have easily backed off and sent in a different ship or contacted your boy leeland because they are investigating the boy leeland i like that and get super close and then figure out if they know anything you know what i mean like right right i i feel like because they made multiple poor decisions that it led to
01:25:10
Speaker
that final thing where it's like we can only we can either ignore it or we have to engage.
01:25:15
Speaker
That's my problem. A no bullshit Vulcan captain on the Discovery would actually be very helpful. Someone that just respects and follows all of Starfleet's most respected laws and regulations.
Desire for a Vulcan Captain
01:25:31
Speaker
I think we were going to get... Stop this shenanigans. There was a tease at the... We're going to go pick up a Vulcan. The one that we were going to pick up a Vulcan. And they got piked.
01:25:42
Speaker
They got piked. They got piked. So that didn't happen, but I would like that. I would like an actual Vulcan captain to come in and be like, look, this is exploration. This is discovery. Let's do this. Let's do this right.
01:25:57
Speaker
Right. Because you guys have had like this terrible track record at this point. I think that'll create an interesting dynamic with Burnham who will have a lot of interesting, you know, may have an interesting relationship with that guy. In order to redeem Burnham, she needs to be put back into place.
01:26:13
Speaker
Seriously. All right. Should we I know I know that Nick doesn't rate so spot here. It's for Nick. I'll let you go. I'll go first. I originally was going to give this episode a 7.5. I give a real rating. You hear it. You hear that? You hear that Sean? I was originally going to give this episode a 7.5.
01:26:35
Speaker
first on 10 episode of Star Trek. So that's great. I'm settling on an eight. I'm going to give it an eight. I think it's, I think that I actually like a little bit more because of our discussion as well as a rewatch, but it's still not a 10, which is
Episode Ratings and Humorous Ratings System
01:26:47
Speaker
crazy. Like that. I was all the way until now. It's my first show over here. So just, uh, Sean, what's your rating?
01:27:05
Speaker
Um, I don't know, actually. This is crazy. I'm gonna be hated by people. I think I'm gonna give this a seven.
01:27:17
Speaker
Well, why would you? Who cares if you're hated? But yes. I mean, it's surprising. Originally, I wanted to give this a six. But the more I think about it, the more the more it's created, I've been talking with Nick about this since yesterday, which is the only stuff, the only discovery of this has ever done this to us. That's true. That we talk about and we're talking about and we're not talking about, oh, you know, this acting was shit or this, you know, the canon connection. We're talking about the plot and the theme and the decision. And I think that's great. I think that's
01:27:47
Speaker
Yeah, sure. It's bitter when it's done in a Darmok way or in a, you know, first contact way, first contact being the episode way. But, um... You mean the Riker fucks an alien episode? No, it's not Riker fucks an alien. That is not the episode. You come out with the wrong things. Yeah. Riker has sex with Darmok alien. That's what it is. Riker was in an episode, so he might as well fuck an alien. But that's not the point. Yeah. I mean, how can I make first contact?
01:28:21
Speaker
For me, as a rating, I think... He's going to give it like three spheres out of seven Burnhams or something. 19 Burnham. 19 Red Angel Burnham. One of my doubling Red Angel Michael Burnham being a bad episode. Seven Burnham. Saru's kicking Michael Burnham to the ground being a great episode. I would put this right around.
Future Plot Speculations
01:28:49
Speaker
11 spheres exploding at the same time. That's a lot of spheres exploding. I mean, honestly, you wouldn't want to be around. You would not. You would not. That's the big I know on that one.
01:29:05
Speaker
I don't know what to make of that, but I accept it.
01:29:22
Speaker
Oh, yes. I think that we should give it a Sean rating system. We should do this 11 point rating system and say what it is on this. So here. Do I have it? I don't think I have it anymore.
01:29:41
Speaker
One is absolute bullshit is the worst you can get and true greatness is the best you can get and then in the middle is average. So where does it fall from between absolute bullshit and true greatness? Wait a minute, I'm gonna try and find it. I'm gonna try and find it. I'll just write it between being an actual shuttle from the Shenzhou and then just being... I love that he just did not want to give ratings.
01:30:03
Speaker
So I think that we're going to assume, based on your tone and your excitement level, that it's at least a six. I'm going to say it's a five for you. It's my safe bet there. It's 11 exploding spheres. Between Sean and I, I guess we can average
Closing Thoughts and Listener Engagement
01:30:22
Speaker
it out. I can show you. I can share my screen. I have already. Here we go. Share the screen. There it is. There it is. There it is. Look at that.
01:30:34
Speaker
So you get absolute bullshit at the end, then the bullshit bad mediocre average on the low side average average on the high side. All right. One thing really fast before we get into this. Why do you have eight separate favorites for Gmail at the top there? Those are my, those are my eight Gmail addresses. Can you, can you stop? Why do you have eight Gmail accounts?
01:31:04
Speaker
Okay, one is a common one from my wife and I for all the important papers. One is my wife's, one is my personal one, one is the music that I make, one is the trick on the tube account, and I also made one for the unity, subject unity, etc. We have
01:31:19
Speaker
You know Gmail has this thing where you can make a folder and you can just click the emails into it You know, I know but like so that I don't have to click in and out every time Like change accounts I can just click on on that and then it opens your email address that I want your audio You're the reason why our audio cuts out on these broadcasts
01:31:43
Speaker
You're sucking up on, on your computer. Okay. There we go. We're off, we're off the internet. Oh, come on. The internet's gone. Okay. I put this episode at from good to great, I guess would be like where or good pick one. You've got a good, good. Okay. You have a professional writing system here. I'm going to go with all right.
01:32:15
Speaker
I'm gonna go with, where's the tab for 11 spheres? Where's that at? I don't see that. I'm gonna go with- All right, enough, enough. Absolute bullshit. Oh, wow. No, no, I won't do that. The average way down. I'll just do media.
01:32:37
Speaker
Real quick, any thoughts? Medioga. Tune into Drunk Space Nine to find out what that means. Anyways, before we go, any thoughts on the little teaser for the episode, guys, before we go? I don't have any thoughts about the teaser. I'm going to throw one more final theory out just for the record and that the red person is going to be a physical manifestation
01:33:08
Speaker
of the USS Discovery itself. Whoa. What is that? That's trippy shit when the discovery having all the logs of what had occurred in the past comes back.
01:33:26
Speaker
to help itself. Right. That makes some time paradoxes, doesn't it? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I did love the sequence when the discovery was in warp and we just saw the side of the saucer section and the top of the nacelle. That was beautiful. Yeah, it was really nice. Anyways, any thoughts, Sean, on the next episode?
01:33:48
Speaker
Is there that was there? I don't know. I don't think about these next episodes. Honestly, the only thing I think about at this point is how late I am watching my true detective episodes. I don't think the next episode. What did you say? Did he die?
01:34:07
Speaker
I don't know. He enters the nebula sometimes. I'm not going to get Spock. Okay, you're back. You're back. You were gone for the last 45 seconds. I just said that CBS, they like to cut me off when I give theories. You're watching. That's right. I like to think that we're going to be misdirected again. I don't think we're actually going to see Spock. I think that little glimpse that we saw of him rocking is going to be either a memory hologram or some kind of weird
01:34:36
Speaker
thing that, yeah, I just don't think we're going to get the actual Spock. I'll tell you what, people are upset because we haven't seen Spock yet. The less Spock we see, the better off I am. I don't want to see him. I don't want to see Spock. Yeah. Guys, this was a really fun discussion. I really appreciate you guys taking the time. It's like almost two hours that we've been yapping about this episode. So kudos to this episode for the lengthy discussion that we had.
01:35:05
Speaker
And audience, we'd love to hear from you and know what you think of the episode. Please comment down below in the comment section or write an email to Sohail, S-O-H-A-I-L, at starfleetboy.com. Please go check out Nick's channel at the, oh wait, it's just Kett Walski, right? The real Kett Walski is your Twitter handle.
01:35:26
Speaker
And also check out Sean at Trek on the Tube and also find him on Twitter. And if you don't know the rest of the Starfleet boy gang, go check out previous episodes and go look everyone up. But shout out to everyone. Major love. I really love this. And I love you guys and LLAP. And we'll see you next time.