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Super (2010)
33 Plays18 days ago
This week on the Everything Actioncast, Zach and Chris are on patrol with the Crimson Bolt and discussing 2010's Super as a slew of violent superhero content is out now, including the premiere of the final season of The Boys.
Directed and written by James Gunn, Rainn Wilson plays religious short-order cook Frank Darbo. When his wife Sarah (Liv Tyler) slips back into her former life of drugs and leaves him for local drug kingpin Jacques (Kevin Bacon), Frank has a vision from God and becomes a vigilante known as the Crimson Bolt, who beats down criminals with a pipe wrench. Ultimately seeking to rescue Sarah from Jacques, Frank is joined by local comic book store clerk Libby (Elliot Page), who joins his crusade as the "kid" sidekick Bolty. Zach and Chris discuss how much Troma influence there is in the movie, how Jacques was originally going to be played by Jean-Claude Van Damme, the James Gunn regulars who appear, the shockingly brutal violence, and more.
You can watch Super on AMC+, PlutoTV, or The Roku Channel. Next week, we're discussing a more pulpy superhero with 1996's The Phantom, which is getting a 4K release.
We want to hear your comments and feedback. Send them all to contact@everythingaction.com. Also, let us know your movie suggestions for us to discuss.
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Transcript
Intro
Podcast Introduction and Topic Overview
00:00:19
Zach Sheets
Hello and welcome to the Everything Action Cast podcast week of April 6th, 2026. I'm host Zach.
00:00:25
Chris Prime
I'm your co-host, Chris.
00:00:27
Zach Sheets
And this week we're going on patrol with the Crimson Bolt and talking about Super, the 2010 James Gunn movie. Because we're actually, like, right now we are lousy with violent superhero stuff. We got Daredevil Born Again, we got Invincible, we got The Boys, just the final season just started this week.
00:00:43
Zach Sheets
So there's all kinds of you know violent superhero stuff going on right now.
Subversive Superhero Films Era
00:00:47
Zach Sheets
And back in 2010, there also was because we had Super, and then literally two weeks afterwards, there was Kick-Ass.
00:00:55
Chris Prime
this was also in the era of the secret rise of subversive comic book superhero stuff. Because I think, think the boys wrapped up like a year or two before the actual comic.
00:01:07
Zach Sheets
Like the actual Yeah. yeah
00:01:09
Chris Prime
And think the boys ended in 2008.
00:01:14
Chris Prime
So... At least the original storyline.
Mark Millar's Influence
00:01:18
Chris Prime
Uh... the But then it was like, oh, these comic book fans obviously were inspired by these subversions and people were writing but like fun fantasy anti-superhero stories that could play into superhero tropes, but they were doing kind of crazy things. I mean, I think a year or two before this was Want It.
00:01:42
Zach Sheets
words'
00:01:45
Zach Sheets
Oh, yeah, probably.
00:01:47
Chris Prime
think That came out in 2008.
00:01:48
Zach Sheets
like those like i feel like that was the first, like, Mark Millar movie. Like, the were first big, like, Mark Millar movie.
00:01:51
Chris Prime
Yeah. And then Mark Millar just kind of wanted a whole writing tangent where I think between writing movie scripts, he was writing like Nemesis. Then, then of course, Kick-Ass, which I think there's probably a huge story to understand what he was thinking where he just like, all right, I can't write like classic hero structures, but what if I just make everything all messed up and He just did everything he was like troping.
00:02:20
Chris Prime
and
00:02:21
Zach Sheets
yeah because yes like He has like four or five of like super superheroes, but what if they were like dark and edgy and crazy?
00:02:29
Chris Prime
Yeah, yeah, like he just
00:02:30
Zach Sheets
Superior super crooks, Jupiter's legacy?
00:02:33
Chris Prime
Again, like that was all within like a year apart from each other from these comic book series. So he was just sitting there spewing out ideas with like probably a writing team. there's no There's no way this guy had that R.L.
00:02:46
Chris Prime
Stine goosebumps mind of like, what if this? And then he wrote like epic arcs.
00:02:49
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:02:53
Chris Prime
I mean, granted, a few few of the stories, they didn't need to be too
James Gunn's Themes in 'Super'
00:02:56
Chris Prime
crazy. like I know Want It it was only like five issues and then kick-ass I think was maybe before I digress but James Gunn kind of instead of writing a comic or just I guess like following that he just said okay what if superhero but this like what if daredevil but wrench man
00:03:02
Zach Sheets
But
00:03:24
Zach Sheets
Well, for this movie, it's like, what yeah, what if a superhero, but like possibly mentally disturbed and like schlubby and like, yeah, learning know like no superpowers, no training, just like going out and hitting people wrench.
00:03:31
Chris Prime
Yeah, which.
00:03:40
Chris Prime
But if only but the only thing that i say about the Daredevil thing is that it's sort of a like a guy dressed in red.
00:03:47
Zach Sheets
hmm.
Character Analysis: The Crimson Bolt
00:03:48
Chris Prime
oh like no reason, especially for a person that doesn't already dress like red. If anything, the Crimson Bolt should have been more of a Crimson Chef or something like it would more in line of what his day job is.
00:04:01
Zach Sheets
That is weird that he doesn't use any of his like cooking or like culinary skills in any of his crime fighting.
00:04:07
Chris Prime
Right.
00:04:10
Chris Prime
So that's why I was like, okay i kind of forget that. It's like he kind of just finds a weapon and he's like, that's it. You know, like. You're a chef. There are like knives and stuff, but I guess he doesn't. There's a no kill rule.
00:04:23
Chris Prime
So.
00:04:24
Zach Sheets
Until until like but much later, I guess. like when
00:04:26
Chris Prime
Yeah, but. I mean, he doesn't know precise like wrench, like hitting.
00:04:35
Zach Sheets
Yeah. Yeah.
00:04:36
Chris Prime
just kind of bashing people, which I'm like, oh, no, don't go for the head. That's. That's like one on one about trying not to kill someone.
00:04:46
Chris Prime
Like, I get kids, kids hit body parts cause they don't know better, but, like, don't go, like, don't hit people in the head with a wrench.
00:04:46
Zach Sheets
and you see
00:04:53
Chris Prime
That's, like, the big takeaway out of our whole everything.
00:04:54
Zach Sheets
he
00:04:56
Zach Sheets
yeah
00:04:59
Zach Sheets
i think And I think the big thing that stood up to me rewatching Super is like this this feels like a lot like a Troma movie, but which, you know, obviously James Gunn started Troma. That's like where he got, like, you know came up and like was directing and writing stuff for Troma.
00:05:17
Zach Sheets
But it's odd because he drew he did Slither in 2006 and that was like a big universal kind of like slicker Hollywood movie. And then did this one. which is, you know like, grimier, kind of independent superhero movie.
00:05:32
Zach Sheets
And then the next thing was Guardians the Galaxy.
00:05:36
Chris Prime
Yeah, that's a big leap.
00:05:38
Zach Sheets
So in the in between these two big, like, Hollywood movies, it's, like, this weird, smaller superhero, like, indie movie.
00:05:45
Chris Prime
I don't mind that. He did a lot of fun side projects that were just for him and his friends. And if someone liked it, you're just a fan of his. But you can't be mad at someone for having this humor.
00:05:57
Chris Prime
You know what I mean? like He earned this like spot where he just made crude humor things just because it was like wrong to do on purpose.
00:06:07
Chris Prime
I feel like the super was just sort of like, hey, before like this wave of incoming superhero movies, let's make a version of this that like is in the charm of an indie movie. Because this movie is an indie movie to some degree.
00:06:28
Chris Prime
It's oddly like it's played off as if it's like a coming of age story. You know, like the music and then the tone and the lighting.
00:06:40
Chris Prime
It's very low budget James Gunn like trope.
00:06:42
Zach Sheets
Yeah. That's where I get the trauma vibes from, where it's the lighting and the sets and the crazy...
00:06:45
Chris Prime
But
00:06:51
Zach Sheets
like the the crazy
00:06:51
Chris Prime
It's all like shot on lo yeah like so it's all shoton location, and what seems to be like the lowest equipment you can rent to do.
00:06:59
Zach Sheets
hey
00:07:00
Zach Sheets
Yep.
00:07:00
Chris Prime
like At times, it does feel like the room, where everyone's sort of like, okay, let's cram everyone in this one house that we rented for the weekend.
James Gunn's Career Transition
00:07:10
Chris Prime
You know, like, okay, hey, do you a place to film? All right, yeah, let's do it there.
00:07:15
Zach Sheets
And then and mostly them they mostly like practical effects and practical like gore, like blood sp like a hose full of blood spraying out so and stuff like that.
00:07:26
Chris Prime
It is cool to see like if you somehow watch the James Gunn chronology of just movies.
00:07:36
Chris Prime
It is, yes, to go from a Hollywood thing to super. But I argue that because it's a smart financial move to do this, because this was not going to be mainstream. i think I think this is one of those like underground movies you just shared around.
00:07:52
Chris Prime
and Especially when Rainn Wilson, who I think at this point, his last big budget movie was like the rocker.
00:08:02
Zach Sheets
What I think it was I think it was like halfway through. Or kind of like halfway through like the Office run. 2013, so like three years after this, was still like Office still going on.
00:08:08
Chris Prime
You know, Office doesn't end to like 2013. But I'm
00:08:14
Chris Prime
but i'm saying like, what was the, what was his last like Hollywood movie?
00:08:21
Zach Sheets
Like Transformers your Revenge of the Fallen.
00:08:25
Zach Sheets
Monsters vs. Aliens?
00:08:27
Chris Prime
Yeah. Oh my god. And even then, he was just cameo. But I'm saying, like, I think the lead row he was in was The Rocker.
00:08:34
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:08:36
Chris Prime
And that's what I'm more thinking of, like, oh, Rainn Wilson. Like, okay. Like, the dude from The Rocker is gonna be the superhero?
00:08:44
Zach Sheets
I don't know if you knew him from The Rocker. I think but everyone knew him as Dwight, obviously. Yeah.
00:08:50
Chris Prime
Now I have you thinking about just people who didn't watch The Office. Because there were people who were, like, anti-Office just because it was, like, the thing not to watch.
00:08:57
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:08:59
Chris Prime
not everyone watched the i Not everyone saw The Office, man.
00:09:01
Zach Sheets
i mean, Frank Darbo is very Dwight. It's like if Dwight lost his mind and became a superhero.
00:09:07
Chris Prime
True. There are certain things that Ring Wilson can lean into and being, I don't know, the like
00:09:16
Chris Prime
but like disturbed, quiet guy. Because Dwight was that, too.
00:09:22
Zach Sheets
Yeah, butight this is like this like Dwight was like one step away from becoming the Crimson Bolt in the office because he was like the was like a deputy or something or a a volunteer sheriff or something.
00:09:33
Chris Prime
Something like that.
00:09:34
Zach Sheets
And he was always like trying to investigate crimes around the office.
00:09:37
Chris Prime
So that kind of brings to the question where did James go and watch The Office and they go, what if we made a movie about Dwight?
00:09:45
Zach Sheets
Well, I mean, the whole reason that Rainn Wilson signed on was because James Gunn gave Jenna Fisher the script and she was like, oh, Rainn Wilson would be good
Casting Insights: Rainn Wilson and Kevin Bacon
00:09:57
Zach Sheets
for this. I think she gets a special thanks in the credits too for basically getting Rainn Wilson sign on.
00:10:00
Chris Prime
Wow.
00:10:04
Chris Prime
mean, he's not, they're not wrong. this He's a great character. He definitely looks like, something about Rainn Wilson in this era where he doesn't grow beard or anything like he does on his free time. He looks like that that kind of, not dont i gotta how do I say this gently?
00:10:21
Chris Prime
He looks like that strange person that definitely has like a whole bunch of thoughts that he can't wait to say in private to you.
00:10:31
Zach Sheets
m
00:10:31
Chris Prime
you know like I'm not trying to describe this correctly, but you know that person.
00:10:35
Zach Sheets
yeah i guess originally jason wanted uh john c reilly
00:10:36
Chris Prime
but
00:10:41
Chris Prime
I could see that too. I definitely could see John C. Reilly in there. he John C. Reilly has crazy eyes when he wants. Ray Nolson can do Crazy Eyes really well, but I just think the...
00:10:54
Zach Sheets
which chessy Was John C. Reilly fully in like the comedy mode in 2010?
00:10:59
Chris Prime
Yeah.
00:10:59
Zach Sheets
Yeah. Yeah.
00:11:00
Chris Prime
This is post, like, uh, Will Ferrell movies.
00:11:04
Zach Sheets
Yeah, Stepbrothers was 2008.
00:11:06
Chris Prime
So I think right now it's like, he's still got, like, three years until Holmes and Watson.
00:11:13
Zach Sheets
Yeah, so yeah it it wasn't like it wasn't like early John C. Reilly, like serious John C. Reilly.
00:11:19
Chris Prime
No, if you look at John C. Reilly's history, he has some serious roles in his beginnings.
00:11:23
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:11:24
Chris Prime
So it's not like John C. Reilly didn't do it. But, I mean, he was, I think, just Dr. Brewer at this point. So, it was there was like a year where, where like...
00:11:29
Zach Sheets
yeah that wouldve That would have been... Can you but he imagine like him just like in as like Steve Ruhle as a crazy superhero?
00:11:39
Chris Prime
It's like a skit, you know? There's no way you can't establish that and have it be like a full-length movie.
00:11:44
Zach Sheets
Yeah, it could it could have been John C. Reilly versus Jean-Claude Van Damme. That could have been the original superhero. because
00:11:52
Chris Prime
It's such like a fever dream of a plot.
00:11:54
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm. Because James Gunn wanted Van Damme to be the villain that Kevin Bacon eventually played. And apparently, it was like up to a week before they started shooting, Damme was on. And then he was kind of like flaky with he was going to show up or not. So then James was like, we can't have it. We can't deal with this.
00:12:11
Chris Prime
You know, when when you say when you say it like that, it makes sense why the main villain's name is Jacques.
00:12:11
Zach Sheets
We're shooting for like a month.
00:12:17
Zach Sheets
Yes. Mm-hmm.
00:12:19
Chris Prime
Because Kevin Bacon doesn't look like Jacques.
00:12:21
Zach Sheets
And he just he's a Does not attempt a he French accent or anything at all.
00:12:26
Chris Prime
And Kevin Bacon is just playing Kevin Bacon.
00:12:28
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:12:29
Chris Prime
It's so funny that it would it in the movie, it's just like, okay, no, that's our local celebrity, Kevin Bacon, who happens to live in this town. And he just has a huge drug problem.
00:12:40
Zach Sheets
Hmm. This is the real Kevin Bacon.
00:12:43
Chris Prime
No, I actually didn't mind if, essentially, in this universe, like Kevin Bacon's just like a villain, so it's like that's why for most of the time, he's just like, okay, i gotta go shoot a movie, I'll be back.
00:12:55
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
00:12:56
Chris Prime
let's get into the meat of the plot. So Super is about a married couple where Rainn Wilson plays this like religious short order cook who is still trying to save his wife from like sin and like up so and then like easily like I don't know slipping back into her drug habits.
00:13:23
Zach Sheets
Yeah, she was like eight she's a recovering alcoholic, recovering drug addict. She had some dark stuff happening. And then she she like slips back into it because she like goes back.
00:13:30
Chris Prime
And then...
00:13:34
Zach Sheets
i don't know if she goes back to Jacques or like was she with Jacques before she got married?
00:13:38
Chris Prime
I don't think she was with Jacques before.
00:13:39
Zach Sheets
Frank? or he was he was like He was just like the new scumbag that she was hanging out with.
00:13:43
Chris Prime
Yeah. I think she just... Yeah, I think she honestly just sort of fell into, like the the like, the neighboring, drug guy.
00:13:55
Chris Prime
You know, like...
00:13:55
Zach Sheets
Which they don't wish they don't explain at all. like like Like, Frank just comes home one day and like she's like smoking pot with like Sean Gunn. the next scene is like, next scene it's like oh, she left. She's like a full-on like drug addict again.
00:14:07
Chris Prime
In refitting this as more of a comedy movie, it would have been like a weird montage, like a funnier montage than what we saw. Than like just a quick like flash.
00:14:19
Chris Prime
I mean, it was a montage, but I think the music would have been funnier. And i also think with John C. Reilly, it just reminds me of a Dewey Cox thing.
00:14:28
Zach Sheets
he
00:14:28
Chris Prime
Where if Every every like few seconds, it's like a new crazier thing she's doing. And he's just like, what? And she's like,
Character Motivations and Relationships
00:14:36
Chris Prime
no, no, it's okay.
00:14:37
Zach Sheets
basic They repeat they repeat like him coming home, and it's like, oh, she's smoking like one joint, and then he comes home again.
00:14:38
Chris Prime
It's okay.
00:14:43
Zach Sheets
like She's like got a bong, comes home with crack. like he it More and more.
00:14:47
Chris Prime
Yeah.
00:14:49
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
00:14:49
Chris Prime
And the house gets more and more deteriorated. I think
00:14:53
Zach Sheets
How do not notice?
00:14:56
Chris Prime
But honestly, like by today's standards, having a woman who just smokes weed in her own home, like it's not like she's like a young girl. She's like someone blatantly in their like her late 30s.
00:15:07
Chris Prime
So it's not like a crazy like, OK, she's smoking drugs at home. And even then, like, I don't know where you are, but this town doesn't have a lot going on.
00:15:16
Zach Sheets
No, it doesn't seem like it.
00:15:19
Chris Prime
So i get that. But. Yeah. Yeah, it just sort of happens where she completely moves out of her home to go live with like the local drug dealer.
00:15:32
Chris Prime
you know like
00:15:33
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:15:33
Chris Prime
The very successful drug dealer, mind you. He's not like in in a drug den.
00:15:36
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:15:38
Chris Prime
like He's in a drug mansion.
00:15:40
Zach Sheets
Yes. i think I think he also owns the town strip club. because constantly like coming out of it.
00:15:48
Chris Prime
Yeah, he's also constantly bringing Liv Tyler out of there.
00:15:51
Zach Sheets
And he's got he's got like a you know bunch of henchmen, which is like Sean Gunn, Michael Rooker, and then Stephen Blackheart, who's also like a like a James Gunn frequent collaborator. All the all the James Gunn crew is all the james gunre is here.
00:16:07
Chris Prime
So, I'm not sure about you, but I don't understand Jock and Liv Tyler's relationship because it's not like, it's like every scene she's in, she's not there.
00:16:21
Chris Prime
She's always like, hi.
00:16:22
Zach Sheets
She's high on like whatever heroin or whatever she's on now
00:16:26
Chris Prime
But he's like, this is great. This is a great relationship. i have to drive you. i have to drive you everywhere. My henchmen have to take care of you. This is what I want in a fucking partnership.
00:16:38
Chris Prime
That's insane. I don't understand. It's like, this town is she the hottest or the only hottest woman in this town?
00:16:45
Zach Sheets
And also like when Frankie fronts them, he's just like, hey, she's she loves me now, man. She's with me.
00:16:52
Zach Sheets
Like, get over it.
00:16:53
Chris Prime
Yeah. Jacques is just, alright, like let it go, man. Just get a divorce.
00:16:58
Zach Sheets
I do love like, like the scene where like, uh, Frank like cuts off their car and he's just like, Hey man, I was nice to you. I compliment your cooking. Cause there's cause there's that weird, there's the weird scene. Like, like Kevin Bacon's introduction is he shows up at the, like rainbows to door. He's like, Hey, is
Frank's Transformation Journey
00:17:13
Zach Sheets
Sarah here? And then he's like, no, she's like, she's out. and it's like, you're making eggs. i yeah can i Can I come in and have some eggs?
00:17:21
Zach Sheets
And then Frank's like, apparently just said yes. This.
00:17:24
Chris Prime
I mean, he's too nice to say no.
00:17:25
Zach Sheets
Yeah. yeah That's part of it.
00:17:27
Chris Prime
And it's also a weird request from like a dude who just.
00:17:32
Zach Sheets
twitchy scumbag who's at your door.
00:17:34
Chris Prime
Yeah. Yeah. i But I think that also plays into the innocence of of Frank, where he can't he's very like kind by nature. But if you he has to find a reason to set him off.
00:17:48
Zach Sheets
he's got like i mean He's kind, or you could say he's a doormat. but like because kind of like He's just like like letting everyone kind of let like run over him.
00:17:56
Chris Prime
True, true.
00:17:57
Zach Sheets
it untily until you know becomes the crimson bolt
00:18:00
Chris Prime
Yeah. Basically, his whole like growth is to not... Well, one, is to have more experiences in life. Because there's the thing in the beginning of the movie where his best two moments are just like him getting married, and then...
00:18:17
Zach Sheets
he He points out to a police officer where a guy ran into a store that stole something.
00:18:19
Chris Prime
Yeah, his justice moment. his like like justice moment
00:18:24
Zach Sheets
He assisted the the police in an investigation.
00:18:28
Chris Prime
You know, now I'm thinking this movie could also be called Super, but then instead of, like, him as a cruising bolt, it could be him in, like, a tuxedo mask kind of S outfit where he's like, I'm the groom.
00:18:40
Chris Prime
That's his whole personality. His whole... i mean, in the beginning, Frank's whole world is just cooking and his wife, and then... That's it. And then...
00:18:50
Zach Sheets
Yep, pretty much. Yep.
00:18:51
Chris Prime
Then it's like he learns to, like, get an interest in superhero things and... And, like... crime fighting and weaponry and stuff. So he grows from that that drive.
00:19:02
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
00:19:02
Chris Prime
But also, let's go back. There's a whole channel that he watches for like a brief moment where it's just like hentai.
00:19:09
Zach Sheets
That's what was wondering, too. What cable? like Yeah, it's like a hint of like seems like a hentai channel. And then it's like a music video? And then they somehow got like somehow got a Red Bull commercial in it.
00:19:23
Chris Prime
Yeah, weird.
00:19:23
Zach Sheets
And then and then just like and there's like the it's like the All-Jesus network where he he sees the the Holy Avenger.
00:19:29
Chris Prime
I don't know yeah what cable service he has. It's either the best or the worst. Just free porn, I guess.
00:19:39
Zach Sheets
And apparently the Hentai channel and the Holy Avenger channel are like the two that like really make the impact on him because he has that vision later that's like all tentacles.
00:19:49
Chris Prime
Yeah, man, I think those are bad eggs he ate. I honestly think that the cause of this was he made eggs he shouldn't have eaten. And it's like, what happened to each person who ate these bad eggs?
00:20:01
Chris Prime
Kevin Bacon made weird decisions to keep Liv Tyler. And then Frank decided to become the Crimson Bolt. But he doesn't know that he's the Crimson Bolt yet, right?
00:20:13
Chris Prime
He just sort of just puts on the outfit first.
00:20:16
Zach Sheets
Well, he he just he sees like the the cowl, but I don't think he doesn't realize realize what it is. And then, because like and he has like the like it's that they they created like crazy tentacles where they cut open his brain, and like gets God comes down and touches his brain.
00:20:30
Chris Prime
God played, but he's played God played by Rob Zombie.
00:20:30
Zach Sheets
because finger it's comes down.
00:20:35
Zach Sheets
voice of Rob Zombie. And then Nathan Fillion, like, it's a Jamie Gunn thing, obviously Nathan Fillion's in it. He's the Holy Avenger, who is a Christian superhero who is based on Bible Man.
00:20:47
Zach Sheets
If, you know the the cult, the cult VHS, like, religious superhero.
00:20:54
Zach Sheets
i think it was featured on Related Media, right? like They watched at least one, right?
00:20:59
Chris Prime
I think so.
00:21:01
Zach Sheets
Or am I thinking of Rem Lizar? I'm probably thinking of Rem Lizar.
00:21:06
Zach Sheets
But I do, I love the little clips you see of like the Holy Avenger show. were like Where James Gunn is playing like the devil. Demon
00:21:15
Chris Prime
Yeah. And that's a lot of weird. like
00:21:17
Zach Sheets
swill.
00:21:18
Chris Prime
It's funny because I was like, this guy looks familiar, but i don't know who he is.
00:21:24
Zach Sheets
And also, the like the main girl in The Holy Avengers is Michaela Hoover, who would be in... It's Cat Grant in Superman. And mean a bunch other James Gunn stuff. So another James Gunn regular...
00:21:37
Chris Prime
Wait, she was the like, felt like almost porny.
00:21:41
Zach Sheets
there's there's like that there's like There's like the two there's the two kids are always like like like talking to like the Holy Avenger. was like but The first like clip is like, we we didn't eat the food, Holy Avenger. So we we did we're not like we're we did get we're not lazy like the other kids.
00:21:58
Chris Prime
Oh, okay. Yeah, that was Michaela.
00:22:01
Zach Sheets
And then, yeah, I was an Ethiopian. And then
00:22:04
Zach Sheets
like the the other Like, the other, like, you the guy in those clips is Zach Guilford, who don't, became like, he he became like a Mike Flanagan regular, like, not a James Gunn regular, because he he was in, like, Midnight Mass and, been like, Midnight Club and of the House of Usher.
00:22:20
Chris Prime
Yeah, it's interesting that everyone's getting the like their weird starts here.
00:22:24
Zach Sheets
yeah it's Yeah, it's either, like, yeah it's, like, super early, or it's just, like, just random cameos.
00:22:31
Zach Sheets
Which I think i think the randomest one might be like Linda Cardellini. It's like the pet store owner.
00:22:34
Chris Prime
Yeah! Yeah, like now that I noticed her now, in a second rewatch, like, years later, this actually my third watching rewatch, I think.
00:22:36
Zach Sheets
lu us Yeah, or Come Back or something.
00:22:45
Chris Prime
but it's like she should play such a bigger role.
00:22:50
Zach Sheets
to say it's literally just one scene.
00:22:53
Chris Prime
It's also funny that it's almost like an like a Rocky Adrian moment, but it goes nowhere.
00:23:03
Zach Sheets
It's also funny that like he he doesn't get the rabbi. He's just like, I might screw it up.
00:23:05
Chris Prime
Oh, he gets it gets it later.
00:23:07
Zach Sheets
He gets it later, but in this scene where he's like trying he thinks about getting rabbi, he's like, well, I might screw it up, so I showed it. And then leaves.
00:23:14
Chris Prime
Well, I understood why. The point of her, of of the the rabbit, was that like he couldn't learn to love anyone because he constantly was taking care of them, but like in the wrong way. like He needed someone who really, really needed him.
00:23:30
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
00:23:30
Chris Prime
And then Liv Tyler was being like cared for, but she didn't know who she was. Which is a weird, again, like this is why she shouldn't have gotten married.
00:23:42
Chris Prime
Because, like, obviously she wasn't happy. Because she wouldn't have spiraled back into, it like, drugs and stuff. But that's, like, the point of it. It's, like, such a sad love story, but it's a love story nonetheless.
00:23:54
Chris Prime
But it makes sense. Like, they were not perfect for each other.
00:23:57
Zach Sheets
e
00:23:58
Chris Prime
But the rabbit? The rabbit definitely was. Linda Carlini? Maybe, but we'll never know. the movie you never hinted at that, which I'm okay with.
00:24:04
Zach Sheets
okay
00:24:07
Chris Prime
In a weird way, like, it's underutilizing her as an actress for it, but it's nice to see her in this movie.
00:24:15
Zach Sheets
She's just like, oh, that was weird. The guy, like, i thought he was going to a rabbit, but he didn't. So I'll never see him again, guess.
00:24:24
Chris Prime
I think he buys like a different rabbit.
00:24:26
Zach Sheets
Yeah, he buys a different rabbit than when you look at that in that scene.
00:24:30
Zach Sheets
But yeah, but then inside instead of buying a rabbit, he like he finally decide it figures out, like oh, i should I should become a superhero.
00:24:39
Zach Sheets
which which he goes So he goes to like the local comic store. and That's where he meets Libby. who's played by Elliot Page. And then, also, Steve Agee is, like, in at the store, too, with you other you know, another, like, constant James Gunn collaborator.
00:24:53
Chris Prime
And he's playing basically comic book guy.
00:24:55
Zach Sheets
Basically, yeah yeah. Because Frank wants to buy... Like, I guess Holy Avenger has comic books, too, and then you see the comic, it's, like, it's like the shittiest comic.
00:25:06
Chris Prime
Well, it's just not mainstream comic.
00:25:07
Zach Sheets
Because it... Yeah, it's, like, it's it's some sort of like... They kind of get, like... you know, probably mainstream comic artists to work on this odd Christian comic.
00:25:20
Chris Prime
Well, it's like art school kids who... and don't know. See, like, can you make a comic for a series you don't believe in? I feel like that's a sellout thing, and it's hard for a comic book artist to be, like, super devoted Christianity, where it's like, alright, we'll make this, like, I don't know, indoctrination comic.
00:25:30
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
00:25:41
Chris Prime
I'm not saying Christian comics don't exist, but they just...
00:25:43
Zach Sheets
Oh, no, they definitely do.
00:25:46
Chris Prime
They have, like, weird messages that I feel like a bunch of artistic people are not going to be, like, comfortable with.
00:25:52
Zach Sheets
there's like a whole like, like the action Bible where it's to trans to make the like it's like like it's like, hey, the Bible's like a comic book. It's the ultimate comic book.
00:26:03
Chris Prime
I feel like every generation, did they try something like that once in a while. And it kind of fails. I mean, doesn't stick. dip Do you remember when they made a like an action NBC like religious show or something like that?
00:26:19
Chris Prime
It's currently out or something, but... like I don't know. like Nothing against it.
00:26:24
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:26:25
Chris Prime
fine Fine for them trying. let's let's Let's note that. But... but I just feel like James Gunn is not going to do that with respect.
00:26:38
Chris Prime
And that's the point.
00:26:41
Zach Sheets
it part yeah It's part of his like satire.
00:26:43
Chris Prime
Yeah. But the other point is that, like, James Gunn definitely borrows a lot of those early tropes that you see in religious movies where...
00:26:54
Chris Prime
person you know seamlessly without control turns to a higher power for a sign that's the the sign or like a higher being dictate their next decision it's it's very like i mean it's it's just like a classic story structure but mostly religious movies love to use that where either like a struggling parent or a lost
00:27:07
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:27:19
Chris Prime
youth or like a confused, uh, I don't know, like career professional needs a needs a sign to make like a whole defining moment.
00:27:34
Chris Prime
Yeah. No, then it's like, i don't know, like a tree speaks or like, uh, uh, some kid gets cured from like some dis disease.
00:27:42
Zach Sheets
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:27:43
Chris Prime
So like here it's, it's literally a tentacle God, telling him to become the Crimson Bolt and I don't know, not learning how to use the internet.
00:27:54
Chris Prime
Cause it's weird that this movie takes place in 2010 because the archaic things he has to do to figure out how be superhero isn't like Google bull yet for him.
00:28:02
Zach Sheets
i think yeah Yeah, well, I think that's probably just like a Frank thing where he just like probably has no, he's pi he doesn't own a computer. he's like coach like He has to go to the library pretend to be, it's like, hey, I'm a college student. I'm doing write a paper about the date most dangerous street in the city.
00:28:16
Zach Sheets
And the the whole like, the the whole like tangent about his fake beard.
00:28:20
Chris Prime
Yeah, they they just like, that's a filler dialogue. I think that's...
00:28:22
Zach Sheets
Like dev improv, it's that was like, it was like improv, just like ri riff on your beard for a little bit here.
00:28:28
Chris Prime
I'm always wondering if how well Rainn Wilson can improv like that. I think like he's such a good comedian that he's aware of how awkward the situation is and knows how to lean into it. And I'm just wondering how many takes it took for them to kind of figure that out.
00:28:46
Chris Prime
And who was that librarian? Like, she was very patient.
00:28:49
Zach Sheets
Yeah. Like this bizarre man with in a fake beard like who wants to find out the most dangerous street in the city. He's like, alright, yeah, I looked it up for you.
00:29:00
Zach Sheets
Here you go.
00:29:00
Chris Prime
Like, dangerous, and then also wants to figure out how to buy drugs.
00:29:04
Zach Sheets
Yes.
00:29:05
Chris Prime
Like, where? And the librarian's like, oh, okay, well, it's my job to teach you.
00:29:11
Zach Sheets
and then And then he goes, like, Frank goes out and, like, first first night has the Crimson Bolt and then doesn't, but he doesn't have a weapon with him. he just He's just gonna go, like, bare bare-fisted and just, like, guess, figures he can just take people out.
00:29:23
Chris Prime
Well, he tries.
00:29:23
Zach Sheets
And then he tries, he fight he fights, like, the drug dealer guy and then gets, me like like, the trash can lit, slam on his fat head and, then like, he he gets run off. I think he has like a diaper or like attached to his ass and he runs away.
00:29:41
Zach Sheets
and then then he goes back the comic and he's like, i need to research like weapons now. Or like, like swears without weapons. Without powers.
00:29:48
Chris Prime
Without superpowers, because he realizes that he can't just run up to someone and I'm the hero.
00:29:49
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:29:53
Zach Sheets
Tackle them or punch them.
00:29:54
Chris Prime
That's such a kid's idea of being a superhero is that I'm i'm the good guy, so I should win. And I think that's when he does the training montage.
00:30:05
Chris Prime
like he He figures out his bolt thing, and then he I guess he starts boxing.
00:30:09
Zach Sheets
Well, what's funny is he gets all these comic books. Like, let me give him a bunch of these comic books that are like, you know, powerless superheroes. And then it's like, oh, is he going to try a bunch different weapons? Or is he going figure out what his thing is? Like, the next scene is like, I'm just going to use a wrench. I found a wrench. I'm just going to spend with a wrench.
00:30:29
Chris Prime
Well, I like that it it kind of skips the whole, like like, finding out your powers phase. just, that's it.
00:30:37
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
00:30:39
Chris Prime
I do mind that. Like, that definitely is not a creative choice. I think they're just like, we don't have a budget for like that. We just got to get to the point.
00:30:47
Zach Sheets
it' such It's such like a a brutal blunt weapon to use, like this pipe wrench.
00:30:53
Chris Prime
Oh, it's depicted like realistically.
00:30:55
Zach Sheets
Oh, yeah, mm-hmm.
00:30:55
Chris Prime
It's it's not like a fantasy pipe where like you sweat, you hit you hit them like a two by like a like, i don't know, a piece of wood. And it's like, oh, no, like I keep hitting them. No, it's one those like one hit in the head.
00:31:08
Chris Prime
No one's prepared for this because that's what it's like in real life. If you hit someone.
00:31:12
Zach Sheets
And that's but that's like the montage. It's just him. Now now he has a now he's a weapon. He's going around smashing people in the face and then like cackling like a maniac.
00:31:22
Chris Prime
Yeah, honestly, it makes sense why the talent people are, like, afraid because it doesn't make any sense unless you know, like, who he's hitting all the time.
00:31:30
Zach Sheets
Yeah, the news reports like there's a crazed villain running around smashing people with a pipe wrench. He's already assaulted five people.
00:31:38
Chris Prime
They're not going to be like, well, I'm a drug dealer, so I get that.
00:31:43
Zach Sheets
but then but then he But then he goes, like he's like he starts like going like he kind of like starts pushing it too far. like The guy cuts in line at the movie theater.
00:31:51
Chris Prime
Yeah, but I think that's because how shocking it was he did in front of all those people. And it was, like, during the daytime, so...
00:31:56
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:31:59
Chris Prime
I'm surprised no one reported that. Like, how is that not, like, a... Yeah, that this guy...
00:32:04
Zach Sheets
There's a Ryan joke where like everyone immediately figures out that it's it's Frank. like people People see him as like, oh, it's that guy.
00:32:13
Zach Sheets
Like, uh, like, Sean Gunn immediately recognizes him later. It's like, oh, it's it's Sarah's husband.
00:32:19
Chris Prime
Well, think you need to see him first to be like who this man is.
00:32:21
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:32:22
Chris Prime
If not, he's just some guy. It's like, who was it?
00:32:24
Zach Sheets
a
00:32:26
Chris Prime
Some dude?
00:32:27
Zach Sheets
Well, funny thing is, like, the like the people at the movie theater, like, they literally see him, like, go to his car and change in his car come back. Like, his car is, like, parked, like, literally next to the line, so he's, like, is in the but in his backseat changing into his costume and comes out, smashes the couple in the face with the wrench and runs off.
00:32:43
Chris Prime
True, true.
00:32:44
Zach Sheets
It's like, it's that guy
00:32:46
Zach Sheets
But then, I think this is like, I think this is like, when he, he's like, kind of like on a high of like, oh, I'm like, i I'm fighting crime. I'm gonna go, I'm ready to like rescue Sarah now. And so yeah he goes to like Kevin Bacon's like compound.
00:33:03
Chris Prime
which is not really well-guarded.
00:33:05
Zach Sheets
No. That
00:33:07
Chris Prime
It's just a
00:33:08
Zach Sheets
that's that's that joke is hilarious where like he goes to the fence he's got like a grappling hook, but then he can just like climb over it. It's not even up to his like like wait it's like chest. He can just climb over the fence easily. and yeah yeah He goes the window and then i think they're like there is like they're testing like this like a heroin there some sort of new heroin on sarah
00:33:30
Chris Prime
Yep. That's like, oh, maybe that's what they keep her around to like test drugs on. Is that it? But again, why would you why would Kevin Bacon be like, this is so cool?
00:33:46
Zach Sheets
This new hair was dope, man. Look how good it is.
00:33:50
Chris Prime
But you see what I mean? I'm like, I don't get why.
Climactic Confrontations and Outcomes
00:33:56
Chris Prime
Kevin Bacon's with her. Like, it makes sense he kidnaps her for the drug thing, but it doesn't make sense for him to be like, I want a relationship with this person.
00:34:07
Chris Prime
Again, is it because it's Liv Tyler? Like, she's she's hot? Like, I i get i get that, but what?
00:34:12
Zach Sheets
big I'm big Aerosmith fan.
00:34:19
Zach Sheets
but yeah, Frank's outside the window and and like he smashes the window open with his wrench, and then but then it's like, oh, they have guns. it's He's like totally unprepared for people with guns, and then he is like he's like run away and gets shot in the leg by Michael Rooker.
00:34:34
Chris Prime
But, okay, there is, like, a scene where Mark Rooker during that, he, like, aims to, like, hit them because, like, he doesn't get, like, for some reason, no one is able to hit him until Mark Rooker.
00:34:44
Zach Sheets
Yeah, everyone's everyone's missing, and then Michael Roker kind of like does like a, well, i'm the best shot. I'm going to do my special skill and like line up the shot and shoot him.
00:34:53
Chris Prime
But I don't get why they didn't run closer.
00:34:56
Zach Sheets
it's It's not like he had like a a rifle or anything. He just had a handgun.
00:34:59
Chris Prime
Right.
00:35:01
Zach Sheets
that's like And he's like, i think he's i think he's at the range.
00:35:03
Chris Prime
No, no.
00:35:05
Zach Sheets
Rainn Wilson's at the range where you need some sort rifle to get hit him.
00:35:10
Chris Prime
that how far he ran?
00:35:12
Zach Sheets
I mean, he's pretty far. I mean, like i mean im I'm sure you could probably hit him. I mean, obviously hit him with the handgun, but like, I feel like you should they should have pulled out like but like some sort of other gun. or that should have been like Michael Rooker's thing of like, well, I'm the sniper. I got my my my special like sniper rifle or something.
00:35:27
Chris Prime
I get that then. Okay.
00:35:30
Zach Sheets
You know, give him give him like a special like henchman ability or something. Because his only like, his only special thing is like he eats candy all the time. like He eats like good and plenies all the time.
00:35:41
Chris Prime
I do like that he offers, in the beginning part of the movie, he sort of like, during the bad news, Frank, like, your your wife's leaving. He does offer good and bloody to him.
00:35:52
Zach Sheets
hey
00:35:54
Chris Prime
So it's like, Michael Walker's not exactly a bad guy, he just needs a job.
00:35:58
Zach Sheets
and he And he seems uncomfortable with like stuff that happens later too, which is like, oh, like are we the baddies, kind of?
00:36:03
Chris Prime
Yeah, yeah. So I kind of have a sympathetic... view of him where he honestly is just like this town sucks so he just needs something to do probably worked at the sh strip club and then bouncer and then you know he got caught up in the money and the like okay what what are you willing to overlook for money
00:36:14
Zach Sheets
There's nothing else. and like There's nowhere else for me to work. i'm just I have to be a henchman for this like the town drug dealer.
00:36:23
Zach Sheets
Probably a bouncer, probably, or something.
00:36:33
Chris Prime
Because he's doing all the goon stuff. like he I think he lives in the mansion. He doesn't have like a room there.
00:36:39
Zach Sheets
Oh, Michael Roker is definitely the... He's, like, the head goon.
00:36:42
Chris Prime
Yes.
00:36:42
Zach Sheets
And the other two are, like, his henchmen. Like, he's the henchman to Kevin Bacon, and the other two are, like, his henchmen.
00:36:48
Zach Sheets
But this is when, like, after he gets shot, like, is when Frank goes to Levy's apartment, which, like, she gave him, like, a flyer. It's like an apartment party that she invited him to. shows up like, a garbage bag. He's covered in his Christmas costume with, like, a giant garbage bag.
00:37:10
Chris Prime
So it's also in the era where people would make like handwritten party invites.
00:37:14
Zach Sheets
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:37:16
Zach Sheets
yeah i want How many Libby make like deliver for this party?
00:37:21
Chris Prime
Yeah, for like 10 people.
00:37:21
Zach Sheets
These handwritten like party...
00:37:23
Chris Prime
ten people
00:37:25
Zach Sheets
it's it's it's like it's it's all it's It's just all her friends. like i don't know there's not Frank's the only new person, it seems like.
00:37:32
Chris Prime
Yeah, so it's like it's a meet and greet for the same people?
00:37:34
Zach Sheets
Yeah,
00:37:36
Zach Sheets
don't forgive but it's like Don't forget my party. Here's my handwritten flyer for it.
00:37:40
Chris Prime
I get it. She's, like, quirky. Like, if anything, Elliot Page reminds me of Juno. Like, again, this feels like a Juno spiritual sequel.
00:37:47
Zach Sheets
he if If Juno is also like mentally like unstable.
00:37:52
Chris Prime
I mean, have you seen Juno?
00:37:55
Zach Sheets
not Not recently, no. Mm-hmm.
00:37:56
Chris Prime
yeah Try watching it now. Let's see if it holds up.
00:38:00
Chris Prime
But they yeah, a quirky kind of kooky person. This is just Juno amped up to Eleven, where she is super excited about what's going on. like All sorts of like things are being processed when she puts on this costume.
00:38:16
Chris Prime
i mean we'll we'll get We'll get to that, where like she immediately like is all about the situation that is going on with Frank. like She's such a fan of the Crimson Bolt, and then finding out that Frank is...
00:38:30
Chris Prime
the Crimson Bolt, she's just like, oh, man, I want to join. Like, I'm still ready to join.
00:38:34
Zach Sheets
well Well, super so super excited that someone's finally, because they were talking about it earlier, like, oh, what if someone, like, it be cool someone actually, like, became a superhero and started doing real life, and then it's like, oh, someone actually did.
00:38:45
Zach Sheets
It's awesome.
00:38:47
Zach Sheets
Which is kind of, I mean, like extremely similar to Kick-Ass where, like, Kick-Ass is like, oh, i should I should be like, why didn't someone do this before? I could be a superhero.
00:38:57
Zach Sheets
but yeah But yeah, she becomes Bolte because it's both psychic and then they go that that they go out and start fighting crime. which Which the crime like the crime that Bolte brings up to is someone who keyed a friend's car and then they brutally assault him.
00:39:17
Chris Prime
Yeah, she doesn't have like any kind of idea of like an honor cold. She's just like, okay, that guy. We just need to do that bad bad things to him.
00:39:28
Zach Sheets
I mean, it's similar to like you know Frank like smashing a guy who cut in line at the movie theater.
00:39:33
Chris Prime
Yeah, but at least he had like proof or something.
00:39:33
Zach Sheets
if i i give him the go Yeah.
00:39:35
Chris Prime
But this was straight up like, oh, that person.
00:39:38
Zach Sheets
like maybe I'm pretty sure it was him.
00:39:41
Zach Sheets
But then they conveniently after they like attacked that guy, they like end up at a gas station and it's like Sean Gunn is there. so then there's a whole big like there's chase with him. And then it's like the first two like actual kills for Frank and Libby. where they like like Because like Frank steals Sean Gunn's gun after he gets smashed. with it like Because Libby drives the car and the Sean Gunn smashes him against the wall.
00:40:07
Zach Sheets
And then Frank gets the gun and shoots the other guy. So like now now they're like now they're like in full-on like Punisher mode. They're like actually like killing people now.
00:40:16
Zach Sheets
And then I think this and and then
00:40:18
Zach Sheets
i think i think is this when they got like they like there's like the the shopping montage. They go to the gun store and buy like all the weaponry.
00:40:26
Chris Prime
Yeah, I think once they realize how they're stepping up their escalation of violence and they're no longer the like, oh, we can we can address like we can do classic superhero stopping by showing up and bashing them with a wrench.
00:40:45
Chris Prime
I think now that's like, OK, now we're going into the gun business because. Yeah, like this isn't like a comic book anymore.
00:40:53
Zach Sheets
They've killed people and they know that like Jacques and his gang have guns so they can't yeah they they need guns as well. which And his gun store has like rocket launchers and like all kinds it's like the store from like Commando.
00:41:09
Zach Sheets
It's like they have a
00:41:10
Chris Prime
That was in a mall, wasn't it?
00:41:12
Zach Sheets
Well, I think it was like it was like a standal it wass like a gun store, but then they had a secret like black market gun store in the back with like all the like actual like crazy rocket launchers explosives.
00:41:21
Chris Prime
Yeah, okay.
00:41:22
Zach Sheets
This is just like, out it's like oh, you want to buy a rocket launcher? Here you go.
00:41:26
Chris Prime
They don't even use the rocket launcher.
00:41:27
Zach Sheets
want to buy swords? You want to buy like whatever like all kinds of weapons?
00:41:32
Chris Prime
it It does give me... i thought like that would be a cool final fight with all the weaponry, but they really don't use any of those.
00:41:38
Zach Sheets
yeah
00:41:40
Zach Sheets
And then i think Frank also, like, don't think he buys it at the store or he just, like, got it, but he gets, like, the anarchist cookbook, basically, and, like, learns how to make, like, pipe bombs.
00:41:49
Chris Prime
Which happens to be the best weapons he has in this arsenal.
00:41:53
Zach Sheets
Yeah, pipe bombs, and then he makes, like, an Assassin's Creed-style, like, a wrist knife thing.
00:41:58
Chris Prime
Like a pressure pump.
00:41:59
Zach Sheets
Like got a knife shooter. Mm-hmm.
00:42:00
Chris Prime
Yeah, but it's like a squeeze pump.
00:42:06
Zach Sheets
And then, and then i think, then then and it's like they get this stuff, and then they you know they've got all this gear. they they so like They get like but like giant bulletproof vests, too.
00:42:18
Chris Prime
Well, let's get into the whole, like, they go from the shopping montage to a inspirational dream that just pushes Frank into this. Let's kick into action mode.
00:42:29
Chris Prime
No, no training, no civilians.
00:42:30
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
00:42:32
Chris Prime
Just like, let's just go.
00:42:34
Zach Sheets
It was like one-day montage of like, they bought all the guns, they went to the the range, and they're like, apparently they're both like, actually, like, with no train, they're actually like, both really good shots.
00:42:44
Zach Sheets
Because they both like, like there's like, you able to hit like that target of Kevin Bacon?
00:42:49
Zach Sheets
and they're like...
00:42:49
Chris Prime
I guess that's just one day training, right?
00:42:49
Zach Sheets
Yeah,
00:42:50
Chris Prime
So that was it. Like, oh, no, we're we're good to go. This is America.
00:42:54
Zach Sheets
we're good, yeah. you know Yeah, it's America, we don't have fire guns.
00:43:00
Chris Prime
Hand-to-hand combat, a little sloppy, but gun range, gun shooting, we're good.
00:43:02
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:43:06
Chris Prime
But again, they that doesn't play into the end, which I'm not sure is subversive, like or just sort of like, okay, whatever it was, we're dropping it. Like, we're just kind of changing...
00:43:19
Chris Prime
the tone. Instead of like a gun, epic gun battle, it's going to be more of a fireworks thing.
00:43:26
Chris Prime
I mean, let's skip the part where, uh, Bolte gets a little frisky because I feel like that's, that's his own problem.
00:43:31
Zach Sheets
yeah a but that's
00:43:34
Chris Prime
I mean, I don't mind that scene. It's, it's weird. That's the James Gunn part of him. That's just like, Hey, you know what? wouldd be kind of awkward. What if, like, Robin got on Batman?
00:43:48
Chris Prime
Like, ooh.
00:43:48
Zach Sheets
but end no that's just like trauma like roots coming through like let's push let's let's make it edgy and like push the boundaries man
00:43:51
Chris Prime
Mm-hmm.
00:43:57
Chris Prime
I get it. I understand. That's... But, like...
00:44:01
Chris Prime
It's definitely, like, in the mindset when I watch it. Like, what is it? 20 years ago?
00:44:08
Zach Sheets
Yeah, 16 years ago.
00:44:09
Chris Prime
teen years ago, like, oh. Didn't expect it then. yeah you kind of don't expect it now, but it's played for, like, awkwardness. And it is pretty, like, you know,
00:44:17
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:44:24
Chris Prime
Going for shock value.
00:44:25
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:44:26
Chris Prime
I think what's even crazier was the vomit vision after.
00:44:29
Zach Sheets
yeah
00:44:30
Chris Prime
That was crazy. To see Liv Tyler, like, imagery in the toilet.
00:44:35
Zach Sheets
he And that and that that's like his big inspiration to like commence the final attack.
00:44:40
Chris Prime
Yep.
00:44:41
Chris Prime
I mean, listen, he just betrayed his wife to him.
00:44:45
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:44:45
Chris Prime
So he's like, all right, well, I did a sin, so I need to go run into doing it now. He does have a crazy line that's like, it's either we do it or we don't.
00:44:51
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:44:54
Chris Prime
There's no like, we'll try, you know, whatever. It's it's he said something along the lines of that.
00:45:01
Zach Sheets
And then, yeah, so then, so so they launched, like, but they launched this, like, got assault on, like, Kevin Bacon's house. And, uh, like, pre like like they they managed to kill a couple, like, people. Like, uh, like, Libby, like, but somehow bought, like, Wolverine claws, or, like, this, like, double-pronged claw thing. that She used just, like, slashed a guy in the like in the face and she has to kill him.
00:45:25
Zach Sheets
And then, uh,
00:45:26
Chris Prime
It's very like x thirteen or does work.
00:45:28
Zach Sheets
Yeah, mm-hmm. X-23, yep. I also, I love there's, like, it's like Frank's, like, little, like, distraction things where he's just, he's, like, stupid, like, he's just, like, standing off, like, on the edge of the like, the the woods, like, and and covered, like, hey, I'm a bird. I'm a bird over here. the guy's, like, what?
00:45:46
Zach Sheets
it Like, walks over there.
00:45:48
Chris Prime
it does work
00:45:49
Zach Sheets
Yeah, it works. it so It's, just like, it's, just like, the worst, like, distraction that you could possibly do.
00:45:57
Chris Prime
Yeah, might as well just like throw on a rock.
00:46:00
Zach Sheets
yeah
00:46:02
Zach Sheets
and then but then but then they both like they both get shot and frank's fine but uh liby is shot in the head and like it's like such a shockingly brutal like death it's because it's so sudden and then you cut over and it's like elliot pages like half had their faces like blown apart
00:46:23
Chris Prime
Yeah. And it comes out of nowhere. There's no foreshadow. There's no, I guess, like heroic speech given.
00:46:37
Chris Prime
It literally is just like the end of that character.
00:46:40
Zach Sheets
Yeah. Which I guess is it's kind of like, hey, like this is like what really realistically would probably happen. it's's like it's not you know This isn't a comic book. It's like these two untrained people are assaulting and like this like heavily armed building.
00:46:55
Chris Prime
Mm-hmm. They're outnumbered and outgunned, but...
00:46:56
Zach Sheets
Yeah. Yeah.
00:46:58
Chris Prime
Yeah, no, this is... This is the consequence.
00:47:03
Zach Sheets
But then it's like, but then Frank does become, like, then, like, the, you the big, like, orchestral music kicks in and Frank is, like, a full-on, like, superhero. Like, he he becomes, like, the Punisher. Like, he's, just like, unstoppable.
00:47:15
Zach Sheets
Like, he's, like, he's got his pipe bombs. He's like blowing guys up with the pipe bombs. He's, like, killing people with shotguns. Like, he's taking out the entire, like, crew.
00:47:23
Zach Sheets
He's doing, like like, I guess, like, a diehard like horror movie things where he, like, drops his body off the roof and, like, smashes through, like, a window in the front of the building. And then it's, like, it says, like, look behind you in blood.
00:47:35
Chris Prime
Yeah, very diehardy. Very, like, use what you know from it from his comic book reading or, like, whatever his training was. And it's funny because, like, they know he's on the roof.
00:47:49
Zach Sheets
Yeah, he's making tons tons of noise.
00:47:53
Chris Prime
And, yeah.
00:47:54
Zach Sheets
And he still gets to drop on them.
00:47:57
Chris Prime
But I like that. It's played in a very realistic manner where it's like the henchmen are clumsy. He's clumsy. Everyone's kind of running on like shock because no one trains for this.
00:48:13
Zach Sheets
Oh yeah, his fight with Michael Rooker is like so like like clumsy, and then it just ends with him like slamming his head like constantly against the stone fireplace.
00:48:25
Chris Prime
Yeah, the corner of the fireplace, which is, I guess, the surface, because that's where Michael Rooker gets his skull bashed at.
00:48:27
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:48:31
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
00:48:32
Chris Prime
And it's depicted very realistic. I've been saying that a while, but like there's something very trauma about deaths that are just comical, and James Gunn doesn't go for that.
00:48:46
Chris Prime
trauma Trauma movies always have like deaths if they're doing something. like It's definitely like the head gets replaced with like a watermelon, or like
00:48:52
Zach Sheets
yeah lot lot of headache explodes like A lot explodes. They blew up like a dummy full of meats or something.
00:48:58
Chris Prime
Right, right. Or if it's gory, it's like the blood is so, like, fake that the the actor is sort of just, like, grossed out because of how much, like, they're sitting in it.
00:49:10
Chris Prime
Michael Roker sells that his head's being bashed in from a fireplace.
00:49:13
Zach Sheets
yeah yes.
00:49:14
Chris Prime
He does the eye roll, there's a little subtle jerks, and i'm like, whoa.
00:49:18
Zach Sheets
a
00:49:19
Chris Prime
It's very brutal, and, like, it it I think out of the deaths, it's the one where Rainn Rilsson really just uses his hands. you know like it's He hasn't done this another character before.
00:49:31
Zach Sheets
yeah he's Yeah, he's finally won like a hand-to-hand fight
00:49:35
Chris Prime
And it's not like Michael Rooker was running away and when Rilsson got him. you know It's not like it was a surprise attack. It literally was just like a struggle. And Rainn Rilsson was like smashing this dude in the corner.
00:49:47
Chris Prime
And then... you know like Michael Rooker probably had to experience fighting or doing some tough guy goon stuff, but like, this short order cook in a red outfit got the drop and won.
00:49:55
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:50:00
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:50:01
Chris Prime
out of Because he was he was the the touch by worm Jesus.
00:50:01
Zach Sheets
you
00:50:04
Zach Sheets
yeah He's... He's fueled by like religious rage.
00:50:08
Chris Prime
And I think Michael Rooker was just filled with candy, so like, he didn't have the strength.
00:50:11
Zach Sheets
Yep. but Too many good and plenies.
00:50:15
Zach Sheets
and then And then Frank... like everyone so Everyone's dead. frank Frank finally faces off with Jacques. Jacques. And then at first, Jack's like, oh, like, here, here you go. Here's Sarah. It's like, take your back.
00:50:28
Zach Sheets
It's fine. I'm done with her. and then But then, like, shoots Frank, like, twice in, like, both arms. And then, but then Frank uses his, you know, the foreshadowed knife launcher and shoots him right in the dick.
00:50:42
Zach Sheets
Or I guess in, like, the taint, I guess.
00:50:45
Chris Prime
the crotch
00:50:45
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:50:47
Chris Prime
you know again it was very like it was Chekhov's gun in a way but it wasn't in the middle or even the earlier in the movie some sort of like invention he was playing with or he saw it on TV or something he literally just like invented it for this for this one purpose
00:51:05
Zach Sheets
Oh, no, yeah.
00:51:11
Zach Sheets
and I mean, I guess maybe it was in... the anarchist cookbook or whatever manual he was reading to like make pipe bombs? Maybe that was it. And they're like, here's something. He usually improvises a wrist-mounted knife launcher.
00:51:25
Zach Sheets
But yeah, it works. And then then then the like finishes off. like He pulls out another knife and just starts like... It ends with him stabbing him kind like like several times while like Liv Tyler just is like so has watch that they're horrified.
00:51:40
Zach Sheets
and then that's like then that's like it's like and then and Frank won. He stabbed Kevin Bacon to death.
00:51:47
Zach Sheets
then it's like they're they're back together for a couple months and then she leaves the again.
00:51:53
Chris Prime
Well, she doesn't find like what she needed out of this, you know, even though this man definitely risked life and did a whole bunch of shit that like no one should do.
00:51:57
Zach Sheets
Not
00:52:05
Chris Prime
It wasn't enough to fill that like void in her. And like, I know that now is an adult about this, but man, was I mad when I first saw this movie. I was like, he did all this and she was just like, still wants a divorce.
00:52:19
Zach Sheets
even a divorce, just like as like leaves the again. like Just like, oh, I packed all my stuff and leave it I'm leaving it again.
00:52:24
Chris Prime
No, she divorced him.
00:52:26
Zach Sheets
okay, yeah.
00:52:27
Chris Prime
Because she met and someone else and then they had kids.
00:52:28
Zach Sheets
Yeah, she marries like Patrick Guy, yeah.
00:52:31
Chris Prime
A Patrick guy who we've never seen before.
00:52:33
Zach Sheets
as she became professor of anthropology, I guess, is what he says.
00:52:40
Chris Prime
i' not going to stress. Also, I don't believe he was a reliable narrator.
00:52:44
Zach Sheets
Yeah, this is this is yeah this entire this entire movie could just be
00:52:45
Chris Prime
And it's also a grain of salt where like.
00:52:49
Zach Sheets
like a lie that he's telling
00:52:51
Chris Prime
I would have laughed at the end where like everything we've watched is just the drawings of a madman.
00:52:59
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
00:52:59
Chris Prime
i mean, essentially, that's what this movie is. It's James Gunn's.
00:53:00
Zach Sheets
Like he's... Mm-hmm.
00:53:01
Chris Prime
Wait, wait. Essentially, this movie is James Gunn drawing of a madman. Just like, wow, this is this movie never happened. not a biography, but it it is sort of like.
00:53:13
Chris Prime
It doesn't really play into the cartoon part anymore. Like that was the beginning and then like sort of the end, but there's no middle where he's also cartooning or anything.
00:53:24
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
00:53:26
Chris Prime
So it's funny that the end, he's just like reflecting on his life, looking at his drawings. And I'm like, he didn't take a photo at all during this whole time.
Reflections and Impact of 'Super'
00:53:35
Zach Sheets
Yeah, like he's not taking pictures. He's like doing you know childish drawings of his like all his favorite moments now.
00:53:44
Chris Prime
memories yeah i mean i get it because now he has things to reflect upon because before he only had two reflection points in his life there was no highlight reel of like accomplishments or happy moments it's just he only got them after doing all these messed up things but that's like the point is that they went through a journey he finally got a journey in his life that was worth it to him
00:54:08
Zach Sheets
it is It is funny, like, when you when you go across some of the pictures, though, and, like, some of his happy moments like, him, like, going through, like, a toll and just saying, like, have a nice day
00:54:18
Chris Prime
Yeah.
00:54:20
Zach Sheets
Or, yeah, or just, like, yeah, someone says, like, hey, nice weather that we're having, right? He's like, sure, yeah.
00:54:26
Chris Prime
And that's like a new memory for him.
00:54:28
Zach Sheets
Yep. Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised. If they had cut to... like If they had shown like that scene where he's in his bedroom and he's looking at all his pictures, but then it cuts like he's actually in an insane asylum lu or something, and it's like that it's like the pictures on the wall of a cell, like adapted but that would make total sense.
00:54:44
Chris Prime
Yeah, and you're like, oh no, this this makes complete sense. This man needs to be here.
00:54:48
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
00:54:51
Zach Sheets
It's like, yeah, this guy... And then they cut to a psychiatrist. He's like, yeah, this patient dressed like a superhero and... Murdered people with a wrench.
00:55:02
Chris Prime
Oh, oh, you know what this reminds me of now? Now I kind of realize in the time frame. This is like a year after watch like maybe maybe a year, maybe the same year Watchmen came out in theaters.
00:55:18
Zach Sheets
I think that was around this time.
00:55:21
Chris Prime
2009.
00:55:21
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:55:23
Chris Prime
Watchmen was another anti superhero movie.
00:55:27
Zach Sheets
well just i I forgot, I was looking up too, like, I forgot along with this one and Kick-Ass, there was, do you remember Defendor?
00:55:34
Chris Prime
I heard the name, never seen it. The one Woody Harrelson.
00:55:37
Zach Sheets
Yeah, I've never seen either, but that that was the year before this too. So that was also, like, that one kind of like preceded both Kick-Ass and Super.
00:55:44
Chris Prime
So I think everyone, so I say that because everyone was trying to do like slightly the twist of like the, like the, what do you do after the hero? Like did the journey?
00:55:55
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:55:56
Chris Prime
Like what, what, what do you do now? Like what's the,
00:55:58
Zach Sheets
But you good you know what's odd is that it like we weren't like if if we weren't in... like the Because it wasn't the start of like the MCU yet. like I think the MCU had just started.
00:56:09
Chris Prime
No, one more year. Because it was... oh wait Well, technically...
00:56:16
Zach Sheets
was like 2008, think.
00:56:19
Chris Prime
Iron Man 1 was 2008. Iron Man 2 was around this time.
00:56:21
Zach Sheets
eat yeah
00:56:24
Zach Sheets
So, I mean, we're sort of in like this like new wave of superhero movies, but then, what you know...
00:56:29
Chris Prime
It wasn't Thor yet. and but No, it might have been Thor...
00:56:30
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:56:34
Chris Prime
was it Captain America first? In this. It was like, Iron Man... Captain America Thor?
00:56:41
Zach Sheets
Throw it was the year after.
00:56:43
Zach Sheets
i think... I mean, it was definitely Iron Man and Incredible Hulk, because those the first two in 2008.
00:56:47
Chris Prime
Okay.
00:56:48
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:56:49
Chris Prime
Captain America was the last one. Of this.
00:56:52
Zach Sheets
Captain America was 2011. Yeah,
00:56:53
Chris Prime
Okay, yeah. So his this is a few months before Thor comes out then.
00:57:00
Zach Sheets
yeah it's just it's just like, it's it wasn't like there was like this huge wave of superheroes. It was like, we like yeah the MCU had started, but it was only like two or three movies in So it's it's kind of odd that there's like all that there's kind of this like, you know, like, we're the were subverting the superhero genre. It's all like superhero movies out, but we're subverting it. It's like, there's only like two.
00:57:21
Zach Sheets
and that like It makes total sense now with the boys where it's like now we're they're like they get to centerize the entire MCU and the DC universe and that stuff.
00:57:23
Chris Prime
Yeah, now.
00:57:30
Chris Prime
Right, right.
00:57:31
Zach Sheets
We're so far into it.
00:57:33
Chris Prime
But it's funny because we thought about the like, oh, this is a babbles of a crazy person or just like the horrors of like, oh my God, what have i what have i been doing? This is like, how do i go back to normal?
00:57:46
Chris Prime
But Reign Willis, like, super, like, the Crimson Bolt, he's like, I think he just gives up being the Crimson Bolt. Like, he's just good at what he, that was it.
00:57:53
Zach Sheets
yeah
00:57:53
Chris Prime
He just needed to be it for that one moment in his life.
00:57:56
Zach Sheets
well i guess i mean i guess he's in like this movie exists in the brightburn universe if everyone's that movie because there's like a there's like there's a clip there's like a after credits or like before the credits scene where like there's other they're talking about other superheroes in this universe and they show like the crimson bolt in that like montage of like other superheroes
00:58:18
Chris Prime
Yeah, but like, he can't beat...
00:58:20
Zach Sheets
I don't know if he's still active or maybe it's just like, hey, there was this guy a couple years ago bashing people in the head with a wrench and now got like evil Superman running around.
00:58:30
Chris Prime
Yeah, I mean, listen, he's great at fighting local town criminals, but he cannot take on Brightburn.
00:58:39
Zach Sheets
no
00:58:43
Chris Prime
Alright, so any closing thoughts?
00:58:44
Zach Sheets
That it's I think it's it's it's still a fun movie. it's stuff you know stuffie And it's definitely interesting going back after like, yeah, after like, you know, almost 20 years of other like James Gunn stuff, just to see like where, like one of his earlier movies.
00:59:01
Chris Prime
Yeah, I like i watching this as a refresher of that period and sort of a origin movie for where actors and themes come from.
00:59:19
Chris Prime
We did notice a lot more this rewatch. And I think this aged well because the superhero trope definitely like kept going. I feel like superhero movies aren't never.
00:59:30
Chris Prime
nu know Caught myself.
00:59:32
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
00:59:32
Chris Prime
Thank you. Caught me right there. Superhero movies are never going to go away. they're always They're always going to be around in some form or another.
Conclusion and Future Teasers
00:59:40
Chris Prime
But I think movies that do the subversion real well, like, stand out more because of that.
00:59:46
Chris Prime
Now, I know what's going to happen is that Marvel or DC or maybe some other, like, media company is going to make a version of Super where it's not, like, the crazy parts. Where it's legit trying to be, like, this guy goes on a mission and then does this, and it's going to be like an anti-parody. It's like, you could definitely be like, this is inspired by Super, isn't it?
01:00:13
Chris Prime
And it's just done very serious.
01:00:16
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
01:00:16
Chris Prime
and Someone some company might even be delusional trying to make an MCU version of this.
01:00:22
Chris Prime
I can see that. like I can see, like I mean, people hate it if they know that it's like what they're trying to do, but I know there's going to be some people who didn't do their research have like, hey, that was a good superhero movie.
01:00:37
Zach Sheets
And yeah, it it definitely got overlooked because of Kick-Ass, I feel like, too. but i mean if you if you didt like I feel like they're like they they're they're both kind of doing their own distinct thing. like that they'rere They're similar in some aspects, but like super like tonally and like you know just like kind of like like gritty-wise is like definitely definitely different than Kick-Ass. Both exist.
01:01:04
Zach Sheets
Because Kick-Ass is definitely is like the bigger, like the big like flashier like Hollywood. like we got We got way more money. we have yield drops. We got all kinds of like like like special effects.
01:01:17
Zach Sheets
We got Nicolas Cage.
01:01:23
Zach Sheets
But... yeah i feel Yeah, if if people like kind of missed out on Super, they should definitely go back and watch it
01:01:30
Chris Prime
It's definitely hidden gem. It's not really brought up a lot these days, just because time superhero stuff gets searched, it just gets overwashed by dc or Marvel.
01:01:42
Zach Sheets
it. Well, because James has made like how like three Guardians movies and the Super Saiyaj Squad and Peacemaker and Superman...
01:01:52
Chris Prime
I think he's legally obligated...
01:01:52
Zach Sheets
He's running the DC Universe now.
01:01:54
Chris Prime
Yeah, I think he's legally obligated not to mention Super.
01:01:57
Zach Sheets
a
01:01:59
Chris Prime
since it's not owned by like any of those guys.
01:02:02
Zach Sheets
Throw him in the background somewhere. Throw him in like a cell in like Arkham or something.
01:02:08
Zach Sheets
whatever Whatever the next Batman movie is.
01:02:10
Chris Prime
Yeah, just some guy dressed as like the Crimson Bolt. That be a nice homage.
01:02:14
Zach Sheets
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
01:02:17
Chris Prime
It was this guy's deal. had people with wrenches. Oh, okay, cool. That's it.
01:02:24
Zach Sheets
But yes, I think they'll do it for this week. We're going to stay in the world of superheroes next week. We're talking about The Phantom 1996 Billy Zane movie because it's finally getting a 4K release. So we'll dive into all the pulpy goodness of that movie next week.
01:02:40
Zach Sheets
And how do we all have our users up there? We've got news, reviews, trailers. We're to have our but either by time you hear this or like shortly after this goes up, we should PAX East article up. So you can check out everything we saw and did at PAX East recently.
01:02:56
Zach Sheets
And a bunch of trailers, bunch news. So yeah, head over, check check all this stuff out. And yeah, for Chris, I'm Zach and we will see you next week.