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Man on Fire (2004)
27 Plays7 days ago
This week on the Everything Actioncast, Zach and Chris head to Mexico City on a mission of vengeance with Denzel Washington and discuss the 2004 Tony Scott movie, Man on Fire, as a new version of the story hits Netflix.
Based on the novel by A.J. Quinnell, Denzel Washington stars as John Creasy, a former Marine and CIA operative who is racked by guilt from his past actions and has become an alcoholic. Visiting his friend Paul Rayburn (Christopher Walken) in Mexico City, Creasy takes a job guarding the daughter of wealthy automaker Samuel Ramos (Marc Anthony), Pita Ramos (Dakota Fanning). While distant at first, Pita's persistent precociousness breaks through his hard shell. When Pita is kidnapped and believed to be dead when the ransom money drop goes bad, Creasy vows to track down and kill everyone involved. Zach and Chris discuss the movie's frenetic, music-video style, Christopher Walken's food-acting, how often Creasy uses rectal bombs on people, how none of the kidnapping organization poses a physical threat to Creasy, how everything that happens is because of insurance, and more.
You can watch Man on Fire on Starz. Next week, we're continuing the vengeance with Punisher: War Zone, as we get ready for both The Punisher: One Last Kill and Jon Bernthal's appearance in Spider-Man: Brand New Day.
We want to hear your comments and feedback. Send them all to contact@everythingaction.com. Also, let us know your movie suggestions for us to discuss.
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Transcript
Intro
Introduction and 'Man on Fire' TV Show Release
00:00:19
Zach Sheets
Hello and welcome to the Everything Extra Gas Podcast the week of April 27th, 2026. I'm your host, Zach.
00:00:26
Chris Prime
I'm a co-host Chris.
00:00:28
Zach Sheets
And this week i we're getting some revenge with Denzel and talking about Man on Fire. Because if you're hearing this, there's a brand new Man on Fire TV show on Netflix adapting the same source material, the the book by A.J. Quinnell.
00:00:42
Zach Sheets
And you got Yaya Duel-Batine II as John Creasy.
00:00:47
Zach Sheets
But i think everyone I think everyone's most familiar with Denzel, Tony Scott version.
00:00:53
Chris Prime
Yeah, it it was a like a big marketing push for it for like for the time. Just because this was like this was the era of like the sex comedy.
00:01:06
Chris Prime
So when you see like an action thriller come up, it blew
Denzel Washington's Iconic Role
00:01:11
Chris Prime
people away. People were just like, yes, this is this is something like like the dads at the time would love.
00:01:20
Zach Sheets
Yeah, I think i think the the original book series is definitely like in that like dad genre. that book genre
00:01:26
Chris Prime
Yep. And nothing wrong with it. This totally makes sense because like the whole story revolves around a person that has lived like horrors and then is trying to like come to terms. Or like you know has the experience and like is perfect for this situation that normally like everyday life doesn't...
00:01:51
Chris Prime
occur to him that like you know like this is what he was made to do and that is such a like dad book series of of of movies that have gone on i i'm pretty sure this isn't the first one of the 2000s era but in the terms of action movies this was uh like just the start of the like not not revenge but it's just like vengeance thrillers
00:01:52
Zach Sheets
yeah
00:01:59
Zach Sheets
yeah
00:02:21
Chris Prime
So, yeah, this was like very pivotal for us as action fans to like kind of like, oh, wow, like it's short artistic. It's got like a lot of like gray area as a story.
00:02:34
Chris Prime
And then i don't know at times it it's Tony Scott with like unhinged filtering.
Tony Scott's Unique Style
00:02:41
Chris Prime
That is one thing that I'm happy that the remake is not going to try to do.
00:02:42
Zach Sheets
this Well, I mean, he I think he was like really ramping up. I think we you know we talked like a year or two ago about like Enemy of the State.
00:02:56
Zach Sheets
Enemy of the State, where started he started kind of like getting into like this digital effects and crazy editing.
00:02:57
Chris Prime
Oh my God.
00:03:04
Zach Sheets
And then it it just kept ramping up. like like The movie before this was Spy Game. And then the movie after this was Domino, which I think was like the like ultimate. like That was just like Tony Scott just going absolutely nuts.
00:03:12
Chris Prime
oh my god
00:03:16
Chris Prime
He was hitting all the effects button on his computer to to like add every like quick cut and then screechy like sound effect.
00:03:18
Zach Sheets
you
00:03:26
Chris Prime
And then i don't oh know it's called. It's like out of focus, like. Color grading like it's I wish I knew the words better, but.
00:03:35
Zach Sheets
Yeah, let's... lots Lots of digital filters across, like the and then, yeah, like different different like shutter speeds and
00:03:44
Chris Prime
And then just like...
00:03:45
Zach Sheets
color great yeah the color like will go out and come back and be super bright. and
00:03:49
Chris Prime
But also a lot of fluff scenery that's metaphoric, but then I don't know if it's actually happening, and then you don't know how to place it in time.
00:04:00
Chris Prime
umll I'll get to it, but like...
00:04:01
Zach Sheets
it's it's it's well it's It's also like it's very like music video editing, too.
00:04:04
Chris Prime
Yes. Where, like, in a music video, you know that when you watch the video, it's typically not told in a linear order. It's sort of like they piece you're supposed to piece together from the whole experience what it's like, but that's what a song is when you hear the whole song,
Plot Summary and Key Characters
00:04:19
Chris Prime
which makes sense in a music video.
00:04:19
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:04:21
Chris Prime
A movie shouldn't do that all the time. Like, I'm not saying it it shouldn't for every movie, but when it comes to, like... a story where, like, this movie plays around you your sense of time, like, this feels like a year.
00:04:37
Chris Prime
Like, the, like, I know the the, also the movie is longer than we all thought it would be.
00:04:43
Zach Sheets
That's, that's, yeah, i forgot I forgot that the movie was like almost, it's, I mean, it's two and a half hours long, basically.
00:04:50
Chris Prime
Yeah, it's, like, almost, for another, like, and don't know, 40 minutes, it'd be Uppaheimer. It's, like, so, it's...
00:04:55
Zach Sheets
yeah
00:04:58
Chris Prime
It's like that is already like playing with your run your sense of time. But then this movie feels like this kidnapping is like over a whole year. Right. And then i think you find out it's only been like a week like hours or less. We're like, wait, what?
00:05:15
Zach Sheets
I think, I mean, if you want to trust Wikipedia, I think the entire movie takes place in like the month of December.
00:05:21
Chris Prime
It's just December.
00:05:23
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:05:23
Chris Prime
OK.
00:05:25
Zach Sheets
But then you have to judge it on like how how fast do dogs grow? Because like the like at one point, the Kodafan gets a puppy, and then the puppy lay is like full almost fully grown.
00:05:35
Chris Prime
Well, then it's like a big dog, like a big puppy. Like, don't know.
00:05:38
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:05:39
Chris Prime
But it's also like. The dog is placed less of a role than I thought. I kind of forgot about the dog and was like, oh, the dog. All right. Well, there goes the dog. Like, we we don't care. Like, OK.
00:05:50
Chris Prime
Odd thing was like, I can't. I wrote down that like, oh, yeah, like. There are pets in this movie. And then just the pets go away as soon as the movie turns into like the man on fire part.
00:06:03
Zach Sheets
Yeah, see it seems like the bird's going important, too. like That's going to be some sort of like metaphorical thing for Denzel.
00:06:07
Chris Prime
I thought...
00:06:08
Zach Sheets
like he like like he like accepts it as like his pet or something, and that's like part of his redemption.
00:06:12
Chris Prime
Yeah. I totally... i But let's get into like why like before we get into that, because I don't want spoil anything. Because, if anything, we the first part of the movie is just man.
00:06:24
Chris Prime
And then it gets to the on-fire part.
00:06:26
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:06:28
Zach Sheets
Well, very lot I feel like i was like I got a lot of similarities to, like, especially the first John Wick, and like, as as far as, like, setup and stuff like this, where it's the same kind of, like, motivation, too.
00:06:38
Chris Prime
Yeah.
00:06:38
Zach Sheets
it's like It's like, you've you've taken, and like, the thing that gave me, like, hope, and now I'm going destroy every person on screen.
00:06:44
Chris Prime
I think that's why it's very classic and it's over like a cool revenge tale. Like I said, it's it's that. And this is all of that early 2000s before the John Wick effect that happens in 2014, 2013.
00:06:50
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
00:06:56
Chris Prime
Yeah.
00:06:59
Chris Prime
fourteen twenty thirteen
00:07:00
Zach Sheets
Yeah, I think so.
00:07:01
Chris Prime
So like there was a gap between those, which I always appreciate, like a good gap that lets you like revisit and kind of like, where's the genre going now? But I'll talk about that later. like But let's really focus in on just setting up the man on fire.
00:07:19
Zach Sheets
But yes so yeah, so you got... So you got Denzel, he's playing John Creasy,
Setting and Cultural Context
00:07:24
Zach Sheets
who I don't think they they they don't like explicitly say what he was doing, but he's like a mercenary, but he also used to be like like a force recon Marine and like worked for the CIA.
00:07:36
Chris Prime
But I think he was a contractor because it makes it seem like he did get military training and then he was doing black ops stuff for vague conflicts.
00:07:48
Zach Sheets
it's in it's yeah he's been it's like he's He's been bouncing around in different like conflicts, just doing whatever. And so then he ends up in Mexico City because his his old friend Paul Rayburn is there.
00:08:01
Zach Sheets
Christopher Walken.
00:08:01
Chris Prime
A.K.A. McBain.
00:08:03
Zach Sheets
Yes!
00:08:04
Chris Prime
I feel like this is a secret McBain sequel.
00:08:06
Zach Sheets
This is what happened to that character. just...
00:08:09
Chris Prime
Yeah, I mean, if you just told me McBain retired and had a family in Mexico, like, oh, that's nice for McBain.
00:08:16
Zach Sheets
But yeah, Christopher Walken, full on Christopher Walken mode.
00:08:20
Chris Prime
Like, this is also the time where Christopher Walken was not doing any, like, action movies yet. Like, I mean, if you consider, like, the rundown the next year.
00:08:32
Chris Prime
Or two years from now?
00:08:35
Zach Sheets
That was the year before.
00:08:37
Chris Prime
Oh, wow.
00:08:39
Chris Prime
So, yeah, it it's pretty much writing that I'm just gonna be like a fun character of myself now. Like, he he doesn't... He's no longer playing like a... Like, I will become this like character. It's like, no, this character becomes Christopher Walken.
00:08:57
Zach Sheets
Well, they... Originally, they wanted him to play, like, the lawyer. Like, the sleazy lawyer. But he's like, i want to i don' I want to be this other guy, because I don't want to be, like, a villain. I've been, like, a villain a bunch of times, i want so I would just want to be, like, a fun friend.
00:09:10
Chris Prime
That works.
00:09:11
Zach Sheets
yes I also love that he he's doing a lot of, like, food acting this movie. Like, it seems like almost every scene he's in, he's got some sort of food that he's eating. And doing a lot of business with like his... like He's like licking his fingers and smacking... He's just like, I'm eating this rib while I'm going to talk to you.
00:09:28
Zach Sheets
Or I'm eating like peanuts or something. like I don't know what he's eating, but he's constantly just like eating stuff and being like... but me Let me tell you something about this.
00:09:37
Chris Prime
it's It's literally chewing chewing the scenery, but it's like him just chewing.
00:09:40
Zach Sheets
okay
00:09:42
Chris Prime
Chewing on the scenery.
00:09:45
Zach Sheets
and we were And we were talking before we started, too, like... like he like so he Creasy were doing basically the same thing but Creasy is like haunted like he's like an alcoholic wreck like he wants to kill himself and then Christian and then Paul Rayburn's just like hey I got I got my a cool house I got my my nice wife I got a kids like I'm i i'm doing good in Mexico
00:10:09
Chris Prime
I love Mexico. Yeah, he's he's I want to see his version of this movie. It's like it's it's not filtered through the Tony Scott lens. It's just like bright and cheery.
00:10:18
Zach Sheets
man
00:10:19
Chris Prime
He's having a great day.
00:10:20
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:10:20
Chris Prime
It's like he doesn't he goes to like very welcoming environments. You know, it's like a whole different vibe for him.
00:10:30
Zach Sheets
not I'm not sure. like What is he? like He drives someone. Is that what he does? Or he just like he like runs like a security company, I guess, or something?
00:10:40
Chris Prime
I have no idea.
00:10:41
Zach Sheets
like i think I think he says like he like she just like helps like his drives like helps people like a like from like the US to Mexico and back.
Real-life Influences and Filming Challenges
00:10:50
Zach Sheets
it f likes if like security
00:10:53
Chris Prime
Oh, so it's like a high profile, like a limousine service.
00:10:53
Zach Sheets
because like
00:10:58
Zach Sheets
sort something yeah
00:11:00
Chris Prime
They have them. They like, they do that as like for movie stars and whoever who's coming to Mexico city. Also, let me tell you, like, For a movie that is like who whatever country they they take place in for like a man on fire movie or product.
00:11:19
Chris Prime
Usually the country is like, you know, the tourism goes up and people go, oh, I can't wait to visit. But like, you know, I'm not like who's ever getting kidnapped or something terrible happening to me because you're just like an average citizen.
00:11:31
Chris Prime
but They straight up make Mexico City seem like it's just like the falat...
00:11:35
Zach Sheets
A war zone? Yeah.
00:11:36
Chris Prime
Yeah, they or like the... What's the part of Brazil that's like they always use as like...
00:11:41
Zach Sheets
The favela?
00:11:41
Chris Prime
Yeah, they make it seem like everywhere is a favela.
00:11:44
Zach Sheets
Well, I think the first the first thing you see on screen is like, what what is it? It's like every...
00:11:47
Chris Prime
An actual kidnapping fact?
00:11:49
Zach Sheets
There's like every 60 minutes, there's like like a kidnapping or something.
00:11:54
Chris Prime
Yeah. okay but Okay, it's like, is that like a general thing or just here? Like, i don't know. What are they trying to say?
00:12:04
Zach Sheets
Well, think it was also happening like in real life because they shot in Mexico City and then Rod and Mitchell's driver got carjacked and then they had everyone had bodyguards because they were like people were like trying to like rob them or like there was like the threat of robbery and kidnapping while they were filming the movie.
00:12:19
Chris Prime
Well, it makes sense for like, you know, celebrity and stuff like that, but... I don't know, like, the average citizen who goes there is not like, oh, Mexico, hey, I'm gonna start waving money around.
Plot Devices and Twists
00:12:32
Chris Prime
I'm only saying that because at the end of the movie, they have this crazy line of thanking Mexico.
00:12:35
Zach Sheets
yeah
00:12:37
Chris Prime
Like, it's a very special place. I was like, what?
00:12:40
Zach Sheets
we We all almost died here.
00:12:43
Chris Prime
I don't know if that's like sarcastic. you know I don't know if that line is sort of Tony Scott's like middle finger for like how hard the production it was to do because you know the actors were being like like threatened.
00:12:50
Zach Sheets
yeah
00:12:56
Zach Sheets
Thanks, Mexico City. We'll never visit you again.
00:12:59
Chris Prime
He might as well put that. It's like, i am not doing the sequel here.
00:13:01
Zach Sheets
never coming back.
00:13:02
Chris Prime
yeah it's like It's such a like, they should have just said John Casey like Greasy died because of Mexico City. like Whoa.
00:13:11
Zach Sheets
He was killing Mexico City.
00:13:14
Chris Prime
Also, it's weird that this movie has, like, dates. It's like they really try to make it, like, modern. But it ages the movie very... Like... I mean, not terrible, because that was the time to show people. Because this was before, like, everyone had smartphones and sort of just was connected.
00:13:34
Chris Prime
So they want to tell you how scary, like, the setting is by showing you that this is, like, happening this year. And for whatever reason...
00:13:42
Zach Sheets
Rip from the headlines. Mm-hmm.
00:13:43
Chris Prime
Yeah, rip it's like an episode of Law and Order. But, like, if anything, knowing that the original is just based on Italian, like, crimes, and then how back in the 80s and early 70s, like, kidnapping rich people was really fashionable.
00:14:03
Chris Prime
Like, that happened way too often than you think.
00:14:07
Zach Sheets
I think specifically for like the the book, AJ Quinnell was inspired by like the like the the Getty kidnapping.
00:14:16
Zach Sheets
which if you see in the movie it's I think there was like the like the FX show Trust, I think, and then also like the that they movie where they had to like like replace Kevin Spacey with Christopher Plummer, I think.
00:14:27
Chris Prime
Mm-hmm.
00:14:27
Zach Sheets
that like That Mark Wahlberg movie. that's there all there There's like two things based on that that came out with like within a short time span of each other.
00:14:35
Zach Sheets
where it was like kidnapping was a fake kidnapping to get like insurance money and you know this whole thing, but then turned into a real kidnapping. And
00:14:43
Zach Sheets
we're just, that's also the weird part that I forgot. like I kind of forgot about too. is like a lot of this, move like most of this movie is because of like insurance fraud.
00:14:52
Chris Prime
Yeah, weird, right?
00:14:53
Zach Sheets
Like, like they hire Creasy because they have to have a bodyguard for like the, they're like the kidnapping insurance. And, But they don't but they don't have a lot like They're running out of money, so they would just want someone
Themes of Vengeance and Character Dynamics
00:15:06
Zach Sheets
cheap. That's why they hire Creasy, because he's kind of like... a you know He'll work for... a He's like yeah an alcoholic out-of-work mercenary. So he'd be like, I'll just get this this just get this washed out drunk. He'll be fine.
00:15:19
Zach Sheets
And then the whole the whole then then there's you find out the whole scheme is just to like get insurance payments to like pay off debts...
00:15:26
Chris Prime
Which, I don't understand like what Mark Anthony's business was.
00:15:35
Zach Sheets
He makes cars, I believe.
00:15:38
Zach Sheets
That's what he did. I think at one point yeah he also mentions that he's trying to make a deal with like Ford to like make cars in Mexico.
00:15:47
Chris Prime
Well, they did, surprise, like over time. They moved back to New Mexico. like A lot of places moved back to brookton Mexico at the time.
00:15:56
Zach Sheets
But yeah, it's like it's his father left him with a lot of gambling debts and business debts, and so he's got like a lot he's got a lot of money he needs to pay off.
00:16:05
Zach Sheets
And then yo know it's it's like his sleazy lawyer, Mickey Rourke, comes and is like, hey, you got a plan to get us out of this.
00:16:14
Zach Sheets
which i love like the like the The second you see Mickey Rourke, he's like, oh man, this guy's a sleazebag. This guy's behind everything.
00:16:19
Chris Prime
Oh, yeah. look It's okay. So i was surprised how early in the movie they kind of set it up that it's going to be like, like Mark Anthony and Mickey Vork are going to do like some sinister stuff.
00:16:34
Zach Sheets
Oh, yeah, especially especially if you know, if you've seen the movie, like, it's like the the second or third time you watch this movie, it's like, oh, it's so obvious. Like, that they're just like, like they're setting up some shady thing.
00:16:45
Chris Prime
But I still don't understand why they did that so early, because that should have been like the twist. And there really is just like one or two twists, I guess. But having that be revealed in the beginning kind of looms over the first act.
00:17:02
Chris Prime
And then you do forget after a while, because at that point, like they stopped bringing it up. And then it's just like the Casey and and like PETA show.
00:17:11
Chris Prime
but yeah, like I, I was surprised that just like, that wasn't like a hush hush third, second act kind of discussion. And just so, Hey, like we should do a kidnapping. Okay. Like, yeah like it's, it would have been like, Hey, you need another bodyguard or else like, you know, your insurance is going to like keep up your, yeah, that's it.
00:17:29
Zach Sheets
Drop, yeah.
00:17:31
Chris Prime
Like that should just been the first thing. Not like, let's go get a drunk so that like something bad could happen to him. Like it,
00:17:38
Zach Sheets
Because they're also talking about the, like, that kidnapping that happens during the credits. It's kind of like this like mini kidnapping story that happens to the like in the opening credits.
00:17:48
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
00:17:49
Chris Prime
the one of many kidnapping that just happens during this movie. That's another thing. This is one of those like underground network of crime that isn't explained just because they want to show you how chaotic it is.
00:18:04
Chris Prime
where
00:18:04
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
00:18:05
Chris Prime
I don't know if the voice is orchestrating all the kidnappings in the city, or just like he's one of like the services there.
00:18:15
Zach Sheets
I it seems like he's doing most of them. And then...
00:18:19
Chris Prime
I don't know, but, like, it's, like, when you find out his crew, which is, like, a whole bunch of, like, incompetent, like, sweaty people, like...
00:18:25
Zach Sheets
Corrupt cops and... Ramandad.
00:18:27
Chris Prime
Yeah, yeah.
00:18:30
Chris Prime
That and, like, once Creasy starts, like, dismantling it, like, they just, like, try to keep business going as usual while, like, one guy is just cheering through their operation. Like, you figure they would have, like, contingencies or, like,
00:18:45
Chris Prime
I don't know, like release all your hostages or like take them out of the city. Just it is like they they keep being surprised.
00:18:54
Zach Sheets
it's also It's also odd that like there's not really anyone... like taking like that there's They have no hitman. It's like, here's our enforcer to stop Creasy. It's all yeah it's all like you said it's all just like sweaty, dumb like fat guys that just
00:19:14
Zach Sheets
like mows through
00:19:15
Chris Prime
Yeah, that that's where was like, the for a network of underground crime, why are they surprised that someone like crazier is like coming after them? And they have no like, oh, we should hire like a guy that knows how
Character Development and Relationships
00:19:29
Chris Prime
to shoot a gun.
00:19:30
Chris Prime
Like, it just,
00:19:31
Zach Sheets
it's like so yeah like someone Someone's fighting back? What do we do?
00:19:34
Chris Prime
Yeah, that's all like that's sounds like, wait, what? Like, there's no anti Creasy. They should have had like the surprise would have been, i don't know, Mickey Wark is also like a hitman or something like he's the lawyer, but he's also like call like the lawyer for like his underground name or something.
00:19:54
Zach Sheets
Maybe that would explain why he has like a katana in his apartment.
00:19:58
Chris Prime
hey I thought I was watching a different movie when I saw that the first time I saw this movie. Because I was like, when was there a ninja? like what Did I miss something?
00:20:05
Zach Sheets
Yep. Mm-hmm.
00:20:07
Chris Prime
But yeah. and It took me a moment to realize, like I remember I saw this movie when I was younger, so like I didn't quite pay attention. So I was like, who's this man in the pool? And it's like, oh, that's Mickey Rourke. I'm like, is it confirmed? He's cause like, this is also a weird movie. If the, the gist of it is that like, oh, like people will just, oh they're dead. What do you mean? They're dead. They're just dead.
00:20:30
Chris Prime
You know, it's like, like there's no confirmation.
00:20:34
Zach Sheets
Yeah. You don't see his head. It's just like, oh, yeah, his body is in the pool, and it's it's like, I guess, yeah, I guess someone came and killed him.
00:20:44
Chris Prime
i mean I mean, we're skipping ahead, but let me let me just focus in on this one quick moment. That whole setup in that apartment is set up for, like, framing somebody. like or Or it's like a perfect crime.
00:20:55
Zach Sheets
Yes! Mm-hmm.
00:20:56
Chris Prime
It's like, you've got a printer set to print out, like, important documents. You've got everything unlocked.
00:21:03
Zach Sheets
ba ba ba All the banking statements are like, we need to get printed.
00:21:06
Chris Prime
All the evidence...
00:21:07
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:21:08
Chris Prime
All the things that are just like, this seems staged. Like, this is like waiting for Creasy just to walk in and then just be like, huh? Like, actually forgot that, like, he just walks in, grabs what he needs and walks right out. I thought someone would call like the cops or like a neighbor be like, hey, like, who are you? And then like, you know, sort of report that and create like a narrative.
00:21:30
Zach Sheets
Yeah, it seems set up for him to walk in and then the cops come in. like Someone's called the cops anticipating him coming there and be like, oh, you're under arrest for murder now. like You killed this guy.
00:21:41
Chris Prime
Doesn't happen. Like, it's such a, like, huh. But I get it, like, the that's not the story, but it really is a guy that is just raging, but it's like everything that he's able to, like, go and do is because the enemy is just sort of incompetent.
00:22:01
Chris Prime
Like, there is, like like, we mentioned, like, it just surprises, he's not getting any attention. He's, like, surprising everybody. And then... I always thought like it was more of a shootout movie and stuff like that.
00:22:14
Chris Prime
It doesn't. like The only shootout happens in one scene.
00:22:19
Chris Prime
so But before that, yeah. So let's get into just like the... I guess like Denzel Washington just gets hired. Creasy's just like, hey, I'm here for a job. Do you have any references? He's like, nah, just... like Well, I guess he he got the reference from Christopher Walken, right?
00:22:37
Zach Sheets
Yeah. And he's got his easy guys resume with all of his like CIA and Force Recon credentials on it. Yeah.
00:22:46
Chris Prime
but, and they're like, why are we, why are you so cheap? And he's like, I drink. Like, oh, right. Like maybe don't drink. Cause you're going to play like protect my kid or like, it is weird that like that should have red flag right there for Denzel Washington for Creasy.
00:23:04
Chris Prime
Just be like, okay. So like you want me to still be a, yeah.
00:23:07
Zach Sheets
You're still hiring me? Yeah.
00:23:09
Chris Prime
Like you still want me to be like a drunk, like a day drunk. and watch your kid. don't think you love your kid.
00:23:19
Zach Sheets
i think there's some sort of like insurance scam happening.
00:23:24
Zach Sheets
as
00:23:24
Chris Prime
I mean, I'm not, I mean, okay. Now as an adult, yeah. It's like, whenever it's like, oh, are you an unreal? Can you be slightly unreliable? Like, you know, 20% of the time or more, depending on how bad your drinking is. Do you want to watch my kid and have a gun? Like what? what
00:23:40
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
00:23:41
Chris Prime
and it's it And it's not like they live in somewhere like very secure. like the the They know like the stats. He knows how deadly this city is. That's why he's able to get a job really easily for a guy who showed to Mexico for like a day.
00:23:59
Zach Sheets
And it seems like Ronna Mitchell just hires them because like, oh, you're American? That's nice. it's It'd be nice to have another American here. You're hired.
00:24:05
Chris Prime
But she does not sound American whatsoever.
00:24:06
Zach Sheets
Oh my god.
00:24:07
Chris Prime
Her accent falls apart.
00:24:09
Zach Sheets
She's supposed to be from Texas. And yeah, it goes in and out. think the one scene... like the one like i think the one scene after when, like, Pete goes missing and, like, Greasy goes, like, get like her her journal and she comes in like, she's, like, laying on thick.
00:24:24
Zach Sheets
But then a lot of times it is like it's just, like, her normal... but But I also think she's, like, Australian, right?
Backstories and Motivations
00:24:29
Chris Prime
I think she's Australian.
00:24:29
Zach Sheets
is there right Yeah, so it's, like, either so sort of normal American or trying to do a Texas accent and failing horribly.
00:24:40
Chris Prime
her her like so her Australian twang shows up. And I guess it's like, well, you're Australian.
00:24:44
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
00:24:47
Chris Prime
Outback. Outback. Texas. like That is the weird like logic that the you know this the casting director was like, right?
00:24:50
Zach Sheets
yeah
00:24:57
Chris Prime
Check it out. like You could just have an Australian wife. Or, I don't know. all i mean If you think about i think she perfected the American accent a little bit better in the next year for Silent Hill.
00:25:09
Zach Sheets
Oh, definitely, yeah.
00:25:10
Chris Prime
But in.
00:25:11
Zach Sheets
Because because they weren't having her try to be also Southern.
00:25:14
Chris Prime
Yeah, but like it's so let's I was like, I just just sound generic American. It's fine. It's this movie doesn't need to be that like American to be like, look, she's a true Texas born person.
00:25:28
Chris Prime
She's like, I don't know
00:25:30
Zach Sheets
I guess but i guess well guess maybe that makes sense how they met because like maybe she she like like lived next to the border or something, or like and it's like Mark Handley came over is like, hey, I'm from Mexico. You're from Texas.
00:25:41
Chris Prime
I mean, listen, they're two, like, hot people. They don't need, like, proximity.
00:25:44
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
00:25:46
Chris Prime
You know? Like, it's not like, oh, like, yeah, like, people ask me, why would you marry this, like, hideous person? like, what? What? You're both beautiful. What?
00:25:58
Zach Sheets
And think, doesn't you say like they they they just like went to the clubs all time, too? It's It's like, we were we were all going we're going we just going to the clubs, but then we had PETA.
00:26:09
Chris Prime
I kind of skipped. I missed that part. But, I mean, that's just, like, rich people things, you know?
00:26:14
Zach Sheets
Yeah,
00:26:14
Chris Prime
Because they do rich people things. like or it's implied that they go out and do, like, fun activities about their kid because they...
00:26:21
Zach Sheets
they're constantly leaving on, like, business trips, quote-unquote. Yeah.
00:26:24
Chris Prime
Yeah. So that's, like, oh is it because, like, they they were like, oh, man, it would suck to, like... Uh... It sucked because without their last bodyguard, like, now they gotta stay home.
00:26:41
Chris Prime
Was that, like, also what's going on with them?
00:26:45
Zach Sheets
yeah don't The last last guy just left is what happened.
00:26:49
Chris Prime
and think he went for, like, more money. Like, someone offered him more money.
00:26:51
Zach Sheets
Oh, yeah.
00:26:52
Chris Prime
So he didn't...
00:26:52
Zach Sheets
that that Yeah. Yeah.
00:26:53
Chris Prime
He was doing it because it was a job. And not because, like, he wanted to stay because it was, like...
00:26:54
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:26:59
Chris Prime
He enjoyed his time protecting PETA. So... His whole job is just protecting Peta. Like, he doesn't really protect the mom.
00:27:09
Zach Sheets
No, yes, it seems like it's just try yeah you know the drive to school or then at home.
00:27:17
Chris Prime
So that's why I was a little confused because he's not like the family bodyguard. He's just Peta's bodyguard. To the point where... Like, even the, like, school was like, you're the dad now, because you're, like, here.
00:27:31
Chris Prime
And I was like, whoa, you just can't do that, lady.
00:27:32
Zach Sheets
Yep.
00:27:36
Zach Sheets
In case you don't understand what's happening in the movie.
00:27:40
Zach Sheets
It's like, here you
00:27:40
Chris Prime
Yeah, like...
00:27:42
Chris Prime
I mean, it's it's... I get the character development, because he was, like, on-the-edge, like, haunted man who basically needed to find a purpose in life.
00:27:46
Zach Sheets
a
00:27:54
Chris Prime
He gets the purpose.
00:27:54
Zach Sheets
he like he literally He literally tries to kill himself and the bullet doesn't go off.
00:28:00
Chris Prime
The like plot bullet.
00:28:01
Zach Sheets
The plot bullet that's like, oh, this thing will offer for a reason.
00:28:06
Chris Prime
Yeah, there's oddly religious.
00:28:08
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:28:09
Chris Prime
And i I don't know if the original one has those undertones, but that's why, like, maybe it does.
00:28:09
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
00:28:14
Chris Prime
And that's why they kind of translate it from the Rome aspect to now the Mexico aspect, where it's just like, it's still like Catholicism. And there's still a little bit about like guilt, redemption, vengeance, a little bit of both and all that.
00:28:24
Zach Sheets
A
00:28:29
Zach Sheets
little daredevil in there.
00:28:29
Chris Prime
Like, well, that that's just Catholicism. It's all like in there.
00:28:33
Zach Sheets
Yeah. yeah like Like, Creasy can do, like, like like verse and, like, he can quote bioverses.
00:28:43
Chris Prime
Yeah, I don't know. like The thing about Bible verses, you have to keep saying them to remember them for long term. like You have to keep reading it and like memorizing it.
00:28:49
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:28:51
Zach Sheets
And then he, like, remembers it in Spanish.
00:28:55
Chris Prime
I mean, if you know what it says, you can speak Spanish,
Artistic Elements and Soundtrack
00:28:58
Chris Prime
though. It's not like is that like it's some Spanish only verse.
00:28:58
Zach Sheets
Yeah. Yeah.
00:29:02
Chris Prime
It's like the generic phrases that everyone says to sound cool.
00:29:08
Chris Prime
but don't know. That's what Bible study is. i just like, understand it.
00:29:10
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:29:12
Chris Prime
It's, it's good. Like, it's a good reference point to tell a story. However, when like the movie does bring up where it's like, Hey, don't forget, like forgiveness. And then Denzel's like, that's not my job. Like,
00:29:29
Chris Prime
I love that line. Like, is it because it's more of like, oh, like, by the way, like, if I, am not supposed to be like the example. Like, I, he's a character that's like, I'm here just to get what I want.
00:29:42
Chris Prime
And.
00:29:42
Zach Sheets
Oh, are you talking about like the old man was just like, like, what do you like is the the RPG scene?
00:29:48
Chris Prime
Yep. Yep.
00:29:49
Zach Sheets
Or he's just like, like, yeah, it's like, I'm not, I'm just, I'm just here to arrange the meeting.
00:29:55
Chris Prime
So. Yeah, it's that's it's like, this movie introduces that of like, hey, you know, good faith and sort of like following, like, you know, like to try to be a good person.
00:30:10
Chris Prime
But then there's like, okay, well, I'm on fire now. So, you know, it's crazy. It's like in this movie, no one actually says man on fire.
00:30:21
Zach Sheets
yeah
00:30:23
Chris Prime
there's like i surprised I'm surprised there wasn't a villain or like...
00:30:29
Zach Sheets
Christopher Walken should be like, he's like a man on fire now. like he's His rage is so... You can't stop it.
00:30:34
Chris Prime
Yeah.
00:30:35
Zach Sheets
like
00:30:36
Chris Prime
like That would have been a 2004 thing. It would have been like saying it and then... Honestly, I think that's just like Tony Scott kind of like like hampering that. It's like, no, no, no, you just can't do that. like The Man on Fire part would have been like on fire.
00:30:51
Chris Prime
like the The title and the poster and then like it would have had like a like a like a fiery red color and stuff.
00:30:53
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
00:31:00
Chris Prime
like they They went subtle with it. and it I do appreciate the keeping it with the source material of of keeping it like the guys like Creasy is just like like such a like urgent machine like he's he's such a like precise I guess like infiltrator but yeah like that would have been such a like
Action Scenes and Direction
00:31:28
Chris Prime
tagline to put on like the the trailer and then really just like zooming in
00:31:31
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:31:35
Zach Sheets
Well, it said it's instead instead you got that Christopher Walken monologue where he's just like he's talking to like, with it, G. Carl Giannini. He's just like, he's a, so you some artist sculpted some paint, but he sees his artist's death. He's going pay his masterpiece.
00:31:52
Chris Prime
So you're saying it like it's more like, you know, epic. The way that Christopher Walken delivers this line is like him eating peanuts st during this. So it's like it kind of loses a little bit.
00:32:03
Chris Prime
But yeah, so for like, I don't know, half an hour of the movie now, it's just the Creasy and Peeta show where they are just, you know.
00:32:12
Zach Sheets
the the the full Yeah, the full-on onslaught of Dakota Fanning's precociousness.
00:32:17
Chris Prime
Oh, yeah. And then she's like, I'll win you over Creasy. And he's like, i don't know. I drink a lot. And then and i don't. Does he give up drinking?
00:32:26
Zach Sheets
Well, it's, I feel, I feel it's kind of thought like he, cause he's like, I don't, i'm not your friend. Don't talk to me. I'm just here to like drive you back to school and back. But then, but then he like, he tries to kill himself and then, then it's like the gun doesn't go off. And so he's like, oh, I'm not supposed to die. I guess maybe I should like, like, you know, maybe my purpose is to like be this girl's friend.
00:32:51
Zach Sheets
because Because it's like, after that scene, then he's like, oh, I'm going to coach you in swimming. Like, we're friends now. I love you. I'm your dad now.
00:33:00
Chris Prime
Yeah, the I'm your dad now part is just like hard hitting and just because the nun says it basically.
00:33:04
Zach Sheets
it is like i feel like it it it is kind of like a hard, so like, it's a hard switch to like, for him, it's like, it goes it goes from like a scene where he says like, yeah, don't yeah don't talk to me.
00:33:15
Zach Sheets
Like, I'm not your friend. to like, oh, I'm your friend now. I'm going to coach you how to like be better than swimming.
00:33:22
Chris Prime
Is it because he watched her swim and then he's like, wella okay well, OK, well, that'll be our bonding moment.
00:33:28
Chris Prime
But like, I don't know how long he's been there. There's no sense of time yet. So it's like, it's just, this has been like two days or it's been like a week.
00:33:37
Zach Sheets
Like a week or a month? like
00:33:40
Chris Prime
he wins her over She wins him over really quick for a guy that was willing to like do all this. you know like
00:33:45
Zach Sheets
mean
00:33:46
Chris Prime
I'm not saying Dakota Fanning has that power, but it's it's crazy that this, I don't precocious, very intelligent little girl is just like winning him for like a hardened CIA Black Ops operative.
00:34:03
Zach Sheets
She's asking like crazy questions too. It's like, do you do you feel being black would be advantage or disadvantage in Mexico City?
00:34:10
Chris Prime
Yeah, that's what saying. Like, what?
00:34:12
Zach Sheets
Who's like, what? what
00:34:14
Chris Prime
What's going on in this house? I don't know if these are the best parents or the worst parents because they're raising a very like prepared for life daughter, but they're also not home a lot. So, like, what's going on?
00:34:28
Zach Sheets
She's doing piano and swimming.
00:34:30
Chris Prime
Okay, we'll get to the piano scene. cause i So, is it weird that that setup was like almost like a Three Stooges skit?
00:34:40
Chris Prime
you Did you get that vibe?
00:34:42
Zach Sheets
for For what? like
00:34:43
Chris Prime
Okay.
00:34:44
Zach Sheets
The burping?
00:34:44
Chris Prime
So, yes.
00:34:44
Zach Sheets
Or...
00:34:47
Chris Prime
the The occasional, like, play us a little bit of a melody, burp, have the, the like, teacher kind of reprimand, and then, like, piano music again. And then out of nowhere, like, it shifts to, like, a very complex, like, arrangement.
00:34:56
Zach Sheets
right
00:35:02
Zach Sheets
Well, they they use... the think it's probably a good time to talk about the soundtrack. That's the other thing that i really jumped on me this watch was like, the soundtrack is out of control this movie.
00:35:13
Zach Sheets
It goes...
00:35:13
Chris Prime
Yeah, it's like it's it's like three different movie soundtracks because it's like none of this is like a following the same theme.
00:35:20
Zach Sheets
I mean, yeah, cause you have like kind of like normal like movie score. You've got like Nine Inch Nails songs. You've got classical music.
00:35:32
Zach Sheets
You've got you got that song that sounds like the song from Gladiator, but apparently it's a different song. Like Lisa Gerard, like like. Yeah.
00:35:40
Chris Prime
Oh, the at the end? Yeah, yeah.
00:35:41
Zach Sheets
yeah
00:35:42
Chris Prime
The, like, angelic three-year-old song, where it's like it's almost like he's about he should put his hand in a bunch of like wheat.
00:35:51
Zach Sheets
Wheat, yeah. I mean, it sounds identical. Apparently, those are two different songs. Although, if you if you got into my head, if you told me to like which one was from which movie, I would not be able to tell you which one is from which movie.
00:36:00
Chris Prime
Honestly, I was like, oh, I've seen this.
00:36:02
Zach Sheets
yeah he's
00:36:03
Chris Prime
this
00:36:03
Zach Sheets
He brought it from his brother, I guess? Alright.
00:36:05
Chris Prime
Yeah. Can borrow that song? Even though I mean, like it's enough time has passed between them. It's it's like.
00:36:12
Zach Sheets
But also, like but it like Linda Ronstadt, like Blue Bayou, plays a huge part of this movie. Like...
00:36:18
Chris Prime
Yeah, like a very nightmarish take on it at some point.
00:36:22
Zach Sheets
and like a Spanish version of Mickey. It's just like, what what is going on the soundtrack? It's like, it's like as schizophrenic as the visuals at times.
00:36:31
Zach Sheets
but But yeah, that the song that like, he is playing, like like they use that song quite a bit in the movie too. Like it's like some, it's like a Chopin song.
00:36:42
Chris Prime
Oh, the like the sad one? Yeah, I have...
00:36:46
Zach Sheets
Like the Nocturne, yeah.
00:36:47
Chris Prime
Nocturne. For those who are familiar with the game... Oh,
00:36:54
Chris Prime
Evil Within.
00:36:55
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
00:36:56
Chris Prime
Evil Within 1 and 2? I think definitely in 2. That's the most recent one I played and of the
Choreography and Realism in Action
00:37:01
Chris Prime
the series. But yeah, you hear that song every time you go to like a save point. and stuff.
00:37:06
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
00:37:06
Chris Prime
like It's just like playing in the background. so When I hear that now, I'm just like, oh, i associate that with Evil Within. Honestly, Honestly, I never explained it in the game why it's playing.
00:37:16
Chris Prime
It's just it's just playing. But... I mean, okay, so because they eventual they set up the the music for like what the piano songs are, and then sort of just like how frantic...
00:37:32
Chris Prime
the world is yeah that's where like this movie really kicks it into like playing that song like a haunting reminder like in the background of like like visuals and then like uh i guess between like the days or nights that are happening so we mentioned earlier how it's shot like a music video yeah but it's like this it's like 30 second clips of just like visual, i don't know, like music shots.
00:38:04
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:38:04
Chris Prime
So you hear that over and over again. And then, okay well, before that, but the thing that sets it off is like. The the crazy shooting that happens outside this piano lesson.
00:38:20
Zach Sheets
Yeah, like so like so like cops show up and like kind of barricade the street, and then a car that was chasing them like days ago, weeks ago, whatever whatever time frame was, shows up. And then so like an increasing you know he almost gets like like Sherlock Holmes vision or like equalizer vision later, like for another movie, where it's like kind of like...
00:38:45
Zach Sheets
like It's a little bit slow-mo where it's a you kind of it's like, oh, this is what like Creasy's, like his like sensor sensing. like it's like He's like realizing danger's happening.
00:38:54
Chris Prime
Yeah, I didn't notice that.
00:38:54
Zach Sheets
and and And then it's yeah it's and it's like the bit like the big like shootout where makes me which i guess sort of tied into like him making not afraid of guns, the starting gun for the swim meets, but it's...
00:39:10
Chris Prime
I mean, she still flinches, because it's...
00:39:12
Zach Sheets
She's so flinchy! Yeah, that it's it's like his entire lesson was went out the window. It's also...
00:39:16
Chris Prime
I mean, theres there's a difference between, like...
00:39:16
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:39:19
Chris Prime
Getting used to the sound one bang like no one's unloading a clip for a swim meet.
00:39:24
Zach Sheets
Yeah. It is funny, like, Denzel shoots into the air a lot this movie, too. Just, like, shooting his gun into the air. Especially, like, the nightclub scene later.
00:39:36
Chris Prime
Yeah, that that's like a crazy like, alright, this is like like a Grand Theft Auto world now.
00:39:43
Zach Sheets
And also, I would say, especially for this scene and then later, like, my big criticism to Creasy is, why don't you wear a bulletproof vest? like you you're a bodyguard in Mexico City. You know there's dangerous kidnappings happening all the time. And he's just he gets shot in the chest like five times.
00:39:59
Zach Sheets
and then And then later on, he's like, i don't need a vest. I'm fine. i didn't learn my lesson.
00:40:06
Chris Prime
I mean, he gets, like, odd reminders, but yeah. Is he drunk still? Like, is that one of those, like, oh, Creasy's, like, I sold my bulletproof vest for booze.
00:40:15
Zach Sheets
I mean, at this point, he had given up. He stopped drinking. So he was, I don't know if he was, like, as sharp, like, back to being sharp, but probably sharper than he was when he was, like, you know pounding a bottle of Jack every
00:40:27
Chris Prime
I would have loved it if it was just, like, Max Payne style, where he is just, like, constantly drinking to, like, Yeah, like, it's his superpower.
00:40:41
Zach Sheets
It's like Drunken Master style Kung Fu, but but it's like he gets like he gets like bullet time.
00:40:43
Chris Prime
Gunfu, yeah.
00:40:48
Chris Prime
It's like, oh my god, he's a man on fire and drunk. Man on drunk fire.
00:40:55
Chris Prime
That's his kung fu, his gunfu style. It's called Man on Fire. Just him drinking, like, fireball whiskey.
00:41:02
Zach Sheets
Yeah. But he he takes out four the guys. it turns It turns out I think all of them are are are cops. And then he gets kind of like like arrested. or like It's like, this guy this this this man killed multiple Mexican police officers.
00:41:18
Zach Sheets
And then I think that that that's when like Gina Carlin, Gina Niddy, and ey and Richard Cotton get involved.
00:41:25
Zach Sheets
Because they're they're like investigating like the Le Jarmondad.
00:41:30
Chris Prime
Which they didn't really get into about the like that organization. It's sort of just like everyone else besides like how far up the the corruption goes.
00:41:42
Zach Sheets
Yeah, there's just there's like a group of like corrupt cops, corrupt like government officials, I guess. Criminals. And it's like the Brotherhood.
00:41:53
Zach Sheets
And then they they think that they want they're going to kill Creasy in the hospital, so then Christopher Walken
Complex Narrative and Themes
00:41:58
Zach Sheets
moves him to like... Yeah.
00:42:00
Chris Prime
No, it wasn't Christopher Walken.
00:42:01
Zach Sheets
moves
00:42:01
Chris Prime
It was the other guy.
00:42:05
Zach Sheets
him to like... a I guess it was like a vet of a vet clinic.
00:42:11
Chris Prime
Yep. Because they wouldn't look to think to look there.
00:42:14
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:42:15
Chris Prime
But you don't even see the the corrupt cops like go to the hospital and try to find Creasy. It's sort of just like, oh, like we're just going to move him for his own safety. And...
00:42:26
Chris Prime
is Okay, I'm not blaming the move, but you think that maybe he should have stayed longer to like heal his gunshot wounds?
00:42:36
Chris Prime
or Because for the next month or week or how long ever it takes, we don't know.
00:42:37
Zach Sheets
Probably.
00:42:42
Zach Sheets
couple days? Yeah, yeah we don we don't know.
00:42:45
Chris Prime
Because it seems like he's not healing correctly.
00:42:48
Zach Sheets
He's jumping in a pool and his blood is pouring of his wound still. so
00:42:51
Chris Prime
Okay, so I don't know if like if that was just like one time he went there, or is this like he keeps breaking into this pool to bleed in it and like gets out of Because he's not cleaning up that pool.
00:42:54
Zach Sheets
One more time, yeah. Yeah.
00:43:00
Chris Prime
He's just like dipping there, and he's like, alright, that's my shower for the day.
00:43:03
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:43:03
Chris Prime
And then like back to hunting.
00:43:05
Zach Sheets
well think I and think it's he's also doing it because you know it brings him closer to Peeta because she she loved she loved to swim. So it's like he's in the pool thinks about her.
00:43:13
Chris Prime
Whose pool was that?
00:43:15
Zach Sheets
Like the the vet clinic's pool? or just something?
00:43:21
Chris Prime
yeah was that it So is that his like home base? like He just worked out of that vet clinic?
00:43:25
Zach Sheets
Maybe.
00:43:27
Chris Prime
I didn't understand like where he was.
00:43:28
Zach Sheets
he Because he clean he clean he cleans out his he gives us room at the the rammo' house And then Christopher Walken gets him like a giant arsenal weapons.
00:43:41
Zach Sheets
Christopher Walken's like, I'm not killing anybody anymore, but I'll get you a bunch of guns.
00:43:47
Zach Sheets
And then, big and and this is that so like but so there's the demand for the ransom. It's like $10 million. dollars it's're supposed You're supposed to yeah drop it off. All these like complicated instructions for Ray Anthony and everybody.
00:44:00
Zach Sheets
But then the drop gets ambushed and the money gets stolen. So then the voice is like, you'll never see your daughter again. Also because my nephew got killed. So goodbye to your daughter.
00:44:14
Chris Prime
Also, the nephew that gets killed, like, there's no character development on that side. It's just like, here are, like, my thugs.
00:44:18
Zach Sheets
no
00:44:20
Chris Prime
was the And then, again, they're really painting this organization of kidnappers, like, as soon as the plan goes south, they're just like, they don't know what to do.
00:44:31
Zach Sheets
Like, no no one's ever thought to ambush them and steal the money. It's like...
00:44:35
Chris Prime
Or, like, there's no rival gang that challenges their territory.
00:44:35
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
00:44:41
Chris Prime
Meanwhile, like, In real life, it's like, it's sad, but like, there's rival gangs like all the time in Mexico.
00:44:49
Zach Sheets
i I don't even know if the voice is like... I don't think they're like in like the cartel or anything. They're their own like weird group. groupop
00:44:56
Chris Prime
Yeah, that's all like a cartel would step in and be like, you're bringing too much heat. You're doing crazy crime now. Like,
00:45:02
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:45:02
Chris Prime
The military is going to come in and that's going to ruin the generic crime we run. It's sort of like how Mexico is now. It's like the cartels is there, but like, because it's like, they don't do crazy stuff. It's like that small gangs don't get bullied.
00:45:20
Zach Sheets
i I guess La Hermandad is the the cartel, but like a not a non-drug cartel, there's like a kidnapping cartel.
00:45:23
Chris Prime
Cartel.
00:45:31
Chris Prime
Yeah, I feel like like that should have been the underworld. like A cartel reaches out to another cartel to like, do you have a guys that know how to fight? like Can we get one or two of those guys?
00:45:43
Zach Sheets
But then they were ripping off each other because the main guy, Fuentes, it's like he's the kidnapping negotiator, but then he's also... He sent his guys to rob the drop.
00:45:57
Zach Sheets
But then the the the drop... like The money was going to go to like The Voice, who part of their group anyway. so so it's like there's like like it was like an inner it was like an in earth theft.
00:46:09
Chris Prime
No, I so initially, i think was that i mean, I could be wrong, but this is what i just interpreted as so.
00:46:19
Zach Sheets
Well, Mickey Rourke stole like a bunch of the money.
00:46:22
Chris Prime
Right, so i think before they gave the money away, they already took some money, right?
00:46:28
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:46:30
Chris Prime
The ambush was another group that I think Mickey Vork hired.
00:46:37
Zach Sheets
To get the rest of the money.
00:46:38
Chris Prime
to get to get the money back, and then claim that they only got like some of the money. But the ambush doesn't work.
00:46:47
Zach Sheets
Because the voice asked for $10 million, but then you find out there's only $2.5 million in one of the bags.
00:46:47
Chris Prime
so be Well, because I think the ambush was to get the money back, and then
00:46:53
Zach Sheets
The other bag was full of just, like, paper. Like, ripped shredded up paper.
Creasy's Transformation and Quest for Vengeance
00:47:01
Chris Prime
try to hopefully get PETA back that same night.
00:47:04
Zach Sheets
And then enabled they would do an insurance claim and get $10 million. And so they would make, like, $7.5 million or something.
00:47:17
Zach Sheets
Well, it was...
00:47:20
Zach Sheets
Fuentes, the guy that gets the suppository bomb, it was it was like his guys.
00:47:22
Chris Prime
Mm-hmm.
00:47:24
Zach Sheets
I think i think he just... like has but he He says he's done that a bunch of times. like He's like ambushed drops and stolen the money. And then and then like whoever...
00:47:34
Zach Sheets
like The cademic victims that just like got killed because of that.
00:47:36
Chris Prime
Okay, so he's the X-Factor.
00:47:37
Zach Sheets
He doesn't care. He's the X-Factor, yeah.
00:47:40
Chris Prime
Okay, because the perfect plan would have been kidnapping and then...
00:47:44
Zach Sheets
They pay the ransom, they get PETA back, and they but then they get more money than they would have gotten, and they paid because they get they got this big insurance payout.
00:47:51
Chris Prime
Right, so but because there there's an another group that shows up, steals the money, nobody gets like the insurance claim.
00:48:00
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:48:00
Chris Prime
But then the really the big risk of Mark Anthony was like, wait, like, so my daughter can maybe it's not guaranteed. You know, like, it's weird to be like, oh, kidnap my daughter.
00:48:08
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:48:11
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:48:11
Chris Prime
Totally fine.
00:48:11
Chris Prime
Kidnap my, you know, like that part is like, what?
00:48:14
Zach Sheets
Well, he's so... I'm just like... I think Mickey Rourke or someone told him, like, he's she's she's just she's gonna watch cartoons eat ice cream all day. It's fine. Like...
00:48:23
Chris Prime
Then like, don't even kidnap. Just say we kidnapped it and fake it You don't need to do everything else. like, You know what i mean? Just say, oh my daughter was kidnapped, and then...
00:48:32
Zach Sheets
Have Mickey Rourke just take her be like, you you stay you stay in my... You can swim in my pool. you You stay at my house for a couple of days and we'll say you got kidnapped. Like...
00:48:39
Chris Prime
Yeah, and then just say, oh, your reporter missing, and then you report and then you just take the money out, and then give the money. you know the The fact that like it involves so much eyes...
00:48:47
Zach Sheets
the actual The actual, like, dangerous criminals that are, like, kidnapping people.
00:48:52
Chris Prime
Yep.
00:48:53
Zach Sheets
they feel they Apparently like Mickey Rourke had to go and talk to him, like, hey, so you guys, I'm going to hire you for a kidnapping. Are you interested in that? Yeah.
00:49:02
Chris Prime
i mean, if it's their business, they were trying to pull off like a kidnap fraud deal that worked. But I think because the nephew got killed, they were like, hey, like we've now altered the plan.
00:49:13
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:49:13
Chris Prime
And that should have been more like the big reveal at that point. And then it's like the other point should have been revealing. Let's like, OK, who was the third group?
00:49:26
Chris Prime
Like, who who's, like, the other party that messed this up? And then it's, like, the, like, you don't know. Like, it could it could have been Christopher Walken. It could have been, like, you know, the, like, the mom. Like, you know, it it it it would have been, like, more of a complex story at that point. But...
00:49:47
Chris Prime
it it gets to like, okay, let's keep it simple. It's the like it's the obvious sweaty like police chief, like the FBI agent that is just corrupt as hell already.
00:49:53
Zach Sheets
Yep. mayor
00:49:58
Chris Prime
Even when he's introduced, he really looks shifty. you He's just like, hey, yeah to cell phone, it's okay. you know like it This movie doesn't really have...
00:50:05
Zach Sheets
i'm making a call I'm making a call. It's fine.
00:50:07
Chris Prime
Yeah, yeah it's like already like showing you their hand. So that's all like, oh, they really tried to not play the thriller part because you kind of know a lot, but then you're like, why? And then they explain why, like, you know, like why happens a little bit later, but it doesn't really leave much to just like, OK, it's not like a giant like whodunit part or it's like it's up at interpretation.
00:50:35
Chris Prime
It's just confusing of where the money's going and then like. where the the original idea of Mark Anthony's plan was of just like he need he was trying to get a bonus 5 million to save his car company.
00:50:51
Zach Sheets
pay to pay off his father's like gambling debts, because he inherited all his father's debts. so he and then that's why That's why his business is like going down, because they have all this business debt to take care of.
00:51:04
Chris Prime
And they refused to leave Mexico because that's where the money is, guess.
00:51:07
Zach Sheets
got, yeah. yeah all his his His car factories.
00:51:13
Chris Prime
I don't know, maybe stop going to clubs and doing other dumb shit. and
00:51:17
Zach Sheets
Taking all these business trips.
00:51:18
Chris Prime
Stop buying so many candles for his shrine.
00:51:20
Zach Sheets
Oh my god, yeah. It's like it's built is like a built-in church in his house.
00:51:27
Zach Sheets
And like a stuffed zebra. Did you notice that too?
00:51:29
Chris Prime
no
00:51:30
Zach Sheets
yeah He has like a stuffed zebra in his house.
00:51:33
Chris Prime
So that's the thing. It's like, okay, are we supposed root for this family? Like, right now, they're they're like they're getting the capitalism boot where essentially their business is not a stable business. The fact that it's like, I don't know, made out of lies and and corruption. It's like, yeah, no, this even if they got away with it for this one thing, it's not going to last. There's going something dumb that happens. and They're like, let's do another kidnapping.
00:52:01
Zach Sheets
Mark Andy's going to start gambling like his father and be like, oh no, I lost all 10 million that got. That's
00:52:08
Zach Sheets
but yeah But yeah, so everyone thinks Peta's dead, and that's and then Kreese's just like, yeah, I'm going to i'm goingnna kill every single person involved in this. And then he starts working his way up the the chain.
00:52:19
Chris Prime
Yeah, it's it's cool that basically the movie does set up that he gets all the right people to help him. Like he's got like like a no nonsense reporter and then he's she's lovers with like the AFI like agent.
00:52:35
Zach Sheets
the the federal federal The federal agent, yeah. Who's, like, not corrupt. Like, he's above the the corrupt cops.
00:52:42
Zach Sheets
And, yeah, just just just able to he's yeah able to get all the information he needs. Like, everyone has, like, ATM cards and bank statements. He's just able to, like, get that all to Rachel Takat. And then, like, hey, can you get this info for me? He's like, yep, here you go
00:52:56
Chris Prime
But like every like he has his team, even though they don't like it.
00:53:01
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:53:01
Chris Prime
You know, it's fun it's like he assembles a crew and he has a person like at the computer or what's it called? Like the person at the desk, the guy in the chair.
00:53:08
Zach Sheets
the guy The guy in the chair.
00:53:10
Chris Prime
Yeah, he has like two of them just because the agent is doing the like actual investigating and then gives it to the reporter who then gives it to Creasy.
00:53:12
Zach Sheets
who
00:53:18
Chris Prime
Yeah. yeah And then it's just like a series of like awesome like action pieces.
00:53:26
Zach Sheets
yeah like, the guy there the guy in the car where he's, like, cutting his fingers off and...
00:53:26
Chris Prime
but it...
00:53:32
Chris Prime
Who, like, his whole... The guy, that... Whose job was that? Just, like, he drives around town, like, waiting for the kidnap pickup point?
00:53:41
Zach Sheets
Well, yeah, it's it's there's two different teams you find out. There's, like, the guys who actually kidnap the people, and then they hand them off to the Guardians who, like, watch them until the ransom's paid, I guess.
00:53:54
Zach Sheets
But then the Guardians are all just, like, like it's it's like a guy from Jersey and, like, like an old woman.
00:54:01
Chris Prime
Yeah. It's such a like such a like sinister name, and then you find out they're they're at like you know just a rave club. like That's their base of operation.
00:54:12
Zach Sheets
Yeah. who Yeah, like we're saying, like there's no one, no one's intimidating. There's like no threat to Creasy at all.
00:54:19
Chris Prime
They don't even have a gun. they just He just shows... Okay, we want to talk about the dance club sequence. where
00:54:24
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:54:24
Chris Prime
Okay, Denzel walks in like he's from the 90s.
00:54:28
Zach Sheets
Training day or something.
00:54:29
Chris Prime
Not even trained. it He's dressed like a 90s background actor. And then...
00:54:33
Zach Sheets
Like, I don't think, it kind of looks I don't think it was, but it kind of looks like a Raiders shirt and then he's got like like like a bandana on.
00:54:40
Chris Prime
hu And he's like, hey, I've got generic pesos. Oh, okay. But yeah, he infiltrates that club super easily. And like they don't have like any measures. They don't have like a guard. I mean, they had like the bouncer, but that's it. it was just like three people run this whole club.
00:54:59
Zach Sheets
Yep.
00:55:01
Zach Sheets
And he kills the one. The guy from Jersey totally collapses and tells him everything. And he kills him. And then it's funny because like, he so that he but then he finds out that there's a, it's like, oh, you want the girl? But it's it's not Peeta. It's like a a different girl that kidnaps.
00:55:16
Zach Sheets
like so it's it's just like an ongoing there's just constantly kidnapping people and then the funniest part is like he's walking out and he's got a shotgun he's shooting it into the air and then everyone in the club is just like cheering just like because i think it's part of like the the rave i guess yeah and then he and then he blows up the entire club and then everyone everyone is outside like cheering him cheering it on
00:55:31
Chris Prime
They're like, oh, is it Shotgun Night? Cool.
00:55:40
Chris Prime
i think that, like, they put an implied that all these club people are dumb, so, like, they'll just cheer to anything, they'll dance anything.
00:55:46
Zach Sheets
Or they're all just like high on E, just like, yeah, fire! woo Keep the music going!
00:55:52
Chris Prime
But the music's gone. They're outside.
00:55:54
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:55:54
Chris Prime
what are they dancing to?
00:55:57
Zach Sheets
The music in their heads, man.
00:56:00
Chris Prime
But yeah, that's it was like it was pretty hilarious just because. Like. It should be more intimidating, like as he should be walking out with like, you know, a hostage.
00:56:11
Chris Prime
And a kidnap victim, and there there should be some resistance.
00:56:16
Zach Sheets
Yes.
00:56:17
Chris Prime
It's not, it's more like, all right, kids, get out the club. right, shoots the gun like like he shoots the gun, like if it's like a whistle to like lead the people out, like it's a fire drill.
00:56:25
Zach Sheets
Yeah, it's like party's over. yeah Clear out.
00:56:29
Chris Prime
Oh, that's the that's not a kill shotgun. That's a, like, you know, end the night shotgun.
00:56:37
Chris Prime
But, yeah, during this time, like, isn't he bleeding out?
00:56:48
Zach Sheets
Army,
00:56:52
Chris Prime
Because for a guy that's not like injured, he does pretty well as a one-man
00:56:52
Zach Sheets
yeah.
00:56:57
Chris Prime
you know
00:56:58
Zach Sheets
army yeah
00:56:58
Chris Prime
army. yeah
00:57:00
Zach Sheets
And I think, and obviously, like the one of the best and most memorable scenes is he attack like so he finds out that like like what he's he's like the the head of the like kidnapping division or something, like Fuentes.
00:57:10
Chris Prime
Fuentes. Yep.
00:57:12
Zach Sheets
And he rolls with a convoy. then Creasy gets an RPG and blows up one of the cars then kidnaps Fuentes. And then we get the, I've shoved the bomb up your ass scene.
00:57:26
Zach Sheets
And then he's like to interrogating him. And we get we get we get the cool on-screen five-minute countdown timer.
00:57:33
Chris Prime
Oh, is it exactly five minutes?
00:57:35
Zach Sheets
I don't know i know if it's real-time five minutes, but it's it's' it's on it's like one of other Toy Scott's many like on-screen crazy kind of like...
00:57:43
Chris Prime
Well, 24 was out, so they were like, you know what's really cool?
00:57:45
Zach Sheets
know
00:57:47
Chris Prime
Five minutes instead of 24 hours.
00:57:49
Zach Sheets
But but yeah but also like Tony Scott also plays with like the like subtitles and stuff in this movie. Subtitles appear randomly or they're
Climax and Themes of Redemption
00:57:56
Chris Prime
Yeah, it's the emphasis.
00:57:56
Zach Sheets
in interesting spots.
00:57:57
Zach Sheets
and like one One word will be like translated.
00:57:57
Chris Prime
It's emphasis of, like, words that is... Mm-hmm. Yeah, again, it's funny that, like, it thinks it's cool, but then it's like, no but with without restraint, it can look weird.
00:58:12
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:58:15
Chris Prime
I don't mind that look. it It makes it look like art more than, like, a typical, like, it looks at more of a comic art than it does a cinematic movie. I would like to see, like, a comic book movie shot like that one of these days to have it be very, like,
00:58:33
Chris Prime
Well, i mean, it it would what would appear like is a Enter the Spider-Verse. But with like, with subtitles sometimes. But, yeah, it's that like, cartoonish feeling of watching the art style just like, shift.
00:58:49
Chris Prime
But having that scene where it's already tense, but then it's like, now it's filtered with like, an extra Tony Scott like, crime tension, or or like,
00:59:00
Chris Prime
I don't know, like violent.
00:59:00
Zach Sheets
and i'll and i'll Yeah, all but and all those filters and stuff too.
00:59:03
Chris Prime
Mm-hmm. That's a it's a cool scene.
00:59:06
Zach Sheets
i was I'm wondering, is that was that like a go-to move for Creasy? Like, I have these suppository bombs, or is that you just like came up with that like, oh, I get this i got a Creasy idea. Because Christopher Walken gets, like, that's it's in the arsenal when he like he's like, oh, here's here's all you here's your like your suppository bombs that you want to Creasy.
00:59:24
Zach Sheets
like I know that's your...
00:59:25
Chris Prime
Wait, does he show him that? Like, does he goes, here's your bomb.
00:59:28
Zach Sheets
it's it's it's it's just It's like laid out with like all the grenades and guns and stuff. It's like it's like those, like, whatever he calls it.
00:59:33
Chris Prime
Oh, wow.
00:59:35
Zach Sheets
So it must yeah he must he must have done that before.
00:59:35
Chris Prime
I missed that detail.
00:59:37
Zach Sheets
like It must be something he's done before. of like Oh yeah, I interrogate people by shoving bombs up their asses.
00:59:43
Chris Prime
Yeah, I mean, he he knows exactly what's going to happen, what's it made out of, and he's probably done it, hence his nightmares.
00:59:51
Zach Sheets
sho I've shoved so many bombs up people's
00:59:54
Chris Prime
I mean, that's a i mean you think about Christopher Walken's one of his famous lines from Pulp Fiction about putting a watch up his ass.
01:00:00
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
01:00:01
Chris Prime
Now you Denzel Washington put a bomb up some dude's butt. And it's like, wow.
01:00:05
Zach Sheets
ay
01:00:06
Chris Prime
It's like poetry.
01:00:08
Zach Sheets
and And obviously we we get one of the coolest like walking away from explosion scenes.
01:00:13
Chris Prime
I mean, as well as things where the explosion happens and it's under a bridge under a town, so like only Denzel Washington gets to appreciate the explosion. like There's no other witnesses. There's nothing like no other blowback. It doesn't take out anyone else.
01:00:27
Zach Sheets
He really cuts it close, too. He starts walking away from the car at like five seconds.
01:00:32
Chris Prime
Yeah, he could have tripped. He also doesn't know like if the car has more gas and how big the explosion could be. and And like the fact that it's under a bridge means like the explosion can go like it's gonna go sideways more because the top's going to pressurize.
01:00:48
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
01:00:50
Chris Prime
Unless he's done it so comfortably that he's like, nah, nah, nah.
01:00:53
Zach Sheets
and know i know you exact I know the exact like explosion range for of an assbomb.
01:00:56
Chris Prime
what Yeah.
01:01:00
Chris Prime
He does this too often. That's why Christopher Walken's like, he's painting his masterpiece. His masterpiece.
01:01:05
Zach Sheets
Yep.
01:01:07
Zach Sheets
and so And this is like the the one big scene where he's in like the like suit that you see him in and like all the posters and everything too. dies in a track suit.
01:01:13
Chris Prime
Yeah, after that, he don't see him like that anymore.
01:01:15
Zach Sheets
Yeah. the like the file is files he dies in like a
01:01:19
Chris Prime
A tracksuit.
01:01:20
Zach Sheets
a track suit yeah
01:01:22
Chris Prime
I don't know why. It's like, was he just trying to blend into that community?
01:01:27
Zach Sheets
that's Because that's like the that's like yeah that's like the iconic like yeah look from this movie is like him in that like gray suit and it's like, oh, it's one scene.
01:01:33
Chris Prime
You find out, yeah. You find out later, like, in the whole movie, they're like, that's just, like, one scene, and Dakota Fanny's not even there.
01:01:41
Zach Sheets
is Oh yeah, because the poster is like them walking away from an explosion.
01:01:44
Chris Prime
Yeah, it's just like, nope.
01:01:44
Zach Sheets
It's like, no, that's not how it works.
01:01:48
Chris Prime
So if you're looking for that moment, nope.
01:01:51
Chris Prime
So, uh, when he finds out that PETA could be alive by infiltrating, uh, the like the last known location of the voice's brother.
01:02:06
Zach Sheets
Well, I think they figure out... Because he he gets the ATM card from the guy from Jersey. and that's how they get paid. and then then that he tracks it to the bank account. And the bank account is like... The voice's wife or girlfriend's name.
01:02:24
Zach Sheets
And then... so he finds like her and like the voice's brother. And so it's like, hey i got you I got your family. going to tear them apart. And but the voice is like, well...
01:02:35
Zach Sheets
The girl's alive, so but let's
Alternative Endings and Casting Choices
01:02:37
Zach Sheets
let's do a trade. That's That's after Chrissy blows off his brother's like hand with a shotgun.
01:02:42
Chris Prime
o but Also, why is the brother like living with the voice's ex-wife?
01:02:48
Zach Sheets
Or a current wife. Because she's pregnant. i feel It's like the current like the current girlfriend or wife or whatever she is.
01:02:57
Chris Prime
But it doesn't really seem like they... like he The voice seems to be living in like a mansion and doing whatever he needs.
01:03:05
Zach Sheets
Yeah. he like He's in his mansion with all his kids, and then his like is like yeah his wife or girlfriend like lives in like the favelas.
01:03:17
Zach Sheets
But yeah, but you yeah you but you find out, like, Peta didn't get killed, she's alive, and then the so the voice is like, a life for a life, like, if you if you turn yourself into... If you you wouldn't i mean your your brother turned yourself over to me, I'll let Peta go.
01:03:34
Zach Sheets
And so, yeah, so Kreese is like, yeah, that's worth it. But yeah then he also got shot again, though. So, like, he's, now he's, like, he's, like, he didn't learn his lesson before of, like, getting shot in the chest. Now he's, like, shot in the chest again and dying.
01:03:47
Chris Prime
Yeah, he gets shot, I guess, in like the lung.
01:03:50
Zach Sheets
Right, yeah, right in the chest. Like, so, I mean, it takes, a it seems like it takes a little, a pretty long time to affect him. But, like, yeah, by time he's, the time he's, like, turned himself over to, like, the voice, like, he's, like, yeah, on his last legs.
01:04:04
Chris Prime
And it's like, okay, crazy deal. Yep.
01:04:08
Zach Sheets
it's extremely, like, we were talking like, the music, like, it's extremely, like, Gladiator, like, the end of Gladiator, like, Maximus is poisoned, and, like, dying, but he's, like, going out, like, his, like, one final, like, act of, yeah, yeah,
01:04:18
Chris Prime
Blazer Glory, yeah.
01:04:18
Zach Sheets
yeah
01:04:20
Chris Prime
Totally right. i Now I think about it, it's like, it's the same kind of tone of like, alright, this is a man who, like, he knows he's going out, but he's gonna do it for like, a good deed.
01:04:36
Zach Sheets
and then and then we we yeah you like we get the crazy like on-screen text of like it's just like the obituary like john it's like john w creasy like it's like date of birthday to death that's what it makes it seem like it's like man the the true story of this man john creasy like he died
01:04:46
Chris Prime
Yeah, and I'm like, this isn't based on a real story.
01:04:57
Chris Prime
We gotta go to Mexico to honor him.
01:04:59
Zach Sheets
And then like the really the really strange like black and white, like it almost see feels like an afterthought of like,
01:05:05
Chris Prime
What happened to the voice?
01:05:08
Zach Sheets
uh, like, oh, he like he he went like he went and just like killed the voice like when they were going to arrest him.
01:05:15
Chris Prime
Just... it like it nearly an off screen death. Cause is it feels like just one of those, like, was this like a deleted scene?
01:05:19
Zach Sheets
Pretty much, yeah.
01:05:23
Chris Prime
And they're like, nah, let's put it back in.
01:05:26
Zach Sheets
people were like oh we yeah we got we got to like people like hate the voice we got to have him like get killed somehow
01:05:34
Chris Prime
And then the voice is dead. Like what? Like it, it's such a like tie in moment. If anything, it should have been a an additional scene, which they do that now these days in modern action movies where like the, the, the villain who the mastermind that like kind of got away gets his like, yeah, his karmatic justice by someone that the protagonist knows who's like, Oh, it's for like the hero.
01:05:53
Zach Sheets
someone tracks him down and yeah
01:06:01
Chris Prime
I'm, I'm, I'm gonna break my own code to...
01:06:05
Zach Sheets
he said his regards
01:06:06
Chris Prime
Right. Or it's like, like, I also, like, am a man of, like, on fire. Like... No, I
01:06:14
Zach Sheets
well did you did you read the alternate like they what it could have been the alternate ending so so apparently so brian helgeland who wrote this movie if he apparently said they
01:06:18
Chris Prime
don't know what's the alternate ending.
01:06:26
Zach Sheets
he wrote it different anywhere like creasy goes to the voice and like confronts him and then he like he's constantly looking at his watch and then you you kind of realize creasy's put like put his own like an ass bomb into himself and and he blows up the himself in the voice
01:06:41
Chris Prime
Oh my god, no.
01:06:46
Chris Prime
So he put it bombs his own ass?
01:06:48
Zach Sheets
yeah
01:06:51
Chris Prime
Yeah, good thing they cut that. It's like, wait. Wait, that was his like exit strategy?
01:06:56
Zach Sheets
yeah Yeah, that was like his like final revenge. like i mean I'm not getting out of this. like ill up blow what's What's the best way I can get in here with like a bomb? It's like, oh, yeah, that that one I used before.
01:07:08
Zach Sheets
me just grab this lube and shove
01:07:11
Chris Prime
Oh my god.
01:07:11
Zach Sheets
This lube in the and get it up there.
01:07:13
Chris Prime
Oh my god. It's like, I've done this once. Like, what do you mean you've done this once?
01:07:18
Zach Sheets
I've done this a bunch of times. Don't worry about it.
01:07:21
Chris Prime
My ass is bomb-proof.
01:07:23
Chris Prime
I mean, I i understand but like, self-sacrifice moment. All the movies have done it.
01:07:29
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
01:07:31
Chris Prime
It's just that you can't... You can't bring back the ass-bomb, and then you're like, wait. did the main hero ass bomb the villain?
01:07:41
Chris Prime
Like, he should have, like, said that, like, you know, you can also put the bomb in other things. And then it's like, for example, like a bullet wound and then, like, blows up the, you know, like, if it was more badass and, like, oh, man, that guy was dedicated to, like, he was willing to hurt himself to, like, get this, like, deadly weapon up close and personal.
01:08:06
Chris Prime
But the fact that it's, like, Oh no, it's like, the ass bombs back. Like, the... It's so weird that they wrote that out when, yeah, that's an alternate ending. Like, they got... did They did not shoot that, right? Because that's like, so stupid if they did like put it it in in there.
01:08:21
Zach Sheets
Yeah, I don't know i don know if it was shot. I think it was... INDB says in the original film ending, Creasy's is not dying in the way the voices house. voice is how They talk, and then he looks at his watch, which implies... then when it hits zero, where the housing house explodes.
01:08:36
Zach Sheets
Which implies that Creasy used the rectal bomb that he used on Fuentes earlier in the film.
01:08:40
Chris Prime
If anything, like the voice should have been like, oh, I heard you blew Fuentes. It's like... All this like other questions about the the the method.
01:08:51
Zach Sheets
i guess i I guess it wouldn't be... it would Like, if they had like a metal detector or something, it wouldn't be detected because it's inside of him.
01:08:58
Chris Prime
Maybe? But like... you Well, like...
01:09:00
Zach Sheets
It's all plastic.
01:09:03
Chris Prime
Yeah, but like I don't think they'll metal detect him. They did like a quick pat-down, even in the movie, and then...
01:09:09
Zach Sheets
Yeah. So yeah, I guess they don't find anything to pat down, or it's like, oh, he does he's he's good, he does everything.
01:09:13
Chris Prime
Yeah, he's got like a pen and watch.
01:09:14
Zach Sheets
Because no one would expect that someone would shove a bomb up their ass. It's like a revenge.
01:09:21
Chris Prime
Yeah, no. It's such a weird thing. like I think like a sillier movie could do that if it was like more of a dark comedy action movie or something like that, but you can't call yourself Man on Fire and then have that be like the final how-everything-wraps-up moment.
01:09:38
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
01:09:39
Chris Prime
like I know I'm not like a I'm not a writer. I'm not a screenplay. I don't claim to be, but I'm just like, don't do that. Like, it just seems so crazy to hear that.
01:09:51
Chris Prime
You know what's even crazier, though? Uh, Robert De Niro was initially offered the role of Creasy. you imagine that's how this movie ends if, like, a bomb blows up out of Robert De Niro's butt?
01:10:05
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
01:10:07
Zach Sheets
or Or Gene Hackman. Yeah.
01:10:07
Chris Prime
Like, Robert De Niro and then Gene gene Hackman.
01:10:09
Chris Prime
Yeah. I read that too and I was like, what?
01:10:14
Zach Sheets
they wanted Marlon Brando to be the Christopher Walken role.
01:10:18
Chris Prime
I could see that. He doesn't have to get up. I think what they they and initially wanted of like, Walken, he was like, can I just eat lunch while doing this? Like, yeah, yeah you you can film while you're doing that.
01:10:32
Chris Prime
Walken just wanted like a vacation to Mexico, But,
01:10:34
Zach Sheets
Oh
01:10:38
Chris Prime
Yeah, like, Man on Fire still holds up. it's definitely a It's definitely a product of the 2000s, where they did they understood, like, action heroes as more of, like, like pained protagonists.
01:10:42
Zach Sheets
yeah, it's great. Yeah.
Influence on Genre and Comparisons
01:10:55
Chris Prime
And, like, Creasy as a, like... like, recluse is awesome because he's tactical, he's precise, he is, like, no nonsense, but he tried not to be this guy anymore.
01:11:12
Chris Prime
And so when he's forced back, it's just like, okay, you know, the the the structure is there for what John Wick movies and all these other movies would follow.
01:11:22
Zach Sheets
Yeah, there's a bunch of it. It's this guy. He's haunted. He's horrible things. He wants to die, but then it's a kid
01:11:31
Zach Sheets
it's you know a kid or John Wick's a dog. It gives him like this hope that he could like maybe he can like actually live a life, and then someone takes it away. It's just like, well, i got I'm killing all of you now because you stole like my one chance to be happy and have a normal life.
01:11:49
Chris Prime
You know, they always have to have a moment where they explain that. Christopher Walken says that in this movie to the to John Carlo.
01:11:54
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
01:11:58
Chris Prime
That like, hey, PETA gave Greasy meaning. And then like, now he...
01:12:03
Zach Sheets
He let him know it was alright to live again and then he took it away. so Now he's gonna kill them
01:12:07
Chris Prime
Yeah.
01:12:11
Chris Prime
I would have liked Christopher Walken also being in the John Wick movie and then having him explain to like the Russians what's happening.
01:12:21
Chris Prime
I mean, they do that again in John Wick 2 when Winston explains it to the Italian guy. So, you know, it's like always like someone explaining the concept of like a vengeful man.
01:12:38
Chris Prime
i think they stopped that by John Wick 3 and 4.
01:12:38
Zach Sheets
Like, it's like... Yeah.
01:12:40
Chris Prime
It's like no more.
01:12:40
Zach Sheets
yeah
01:12:41
Chris Prime
We get it now.
01:12:42
Zach Sheets
It's also kind of thinking of like, do you realize what you've done? you realize what you've done to this person?
01:12:45
Chris Prime
Yeah.
01:12:47
Zach Sheets
Like, you've unleashed like the most like dangerous person and and on the Earth. Yeah.
01:12:51
Chris Prime
You've set this man on fire.
01:12:53
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
01:12:55
Zach Sheets
But yeah, still awesome. Hopefully, i don't neither of us have seen the Netflix show yet, but I'm definitely curious to check it out. It's getting pretty good reviews when we're recording this. got i think it's like 60% Rotten Tomatoes.
01:13:07
Chris Prime
Yeah, I mean, it's such a great character, like, very timeless character arc, I guess. And so having it set in more of a modern pace, but still retain some things from this movie, like having a, like a Creasy that's sort of Denzel-ish, but not quite.
01:13:24
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
01:13:30
Chris Prime
But I like to see where like the character archetype is going with like a modern day interpretation of just sort of running around doing chaos and not like a John Wick magic where it's like, you know, you have a bulletproof suit.
01:13:46
Chris Prime
You have like an underground assassins community.
01:13:47
Zach Sheets
yeah
01:13:49
Chris Prime
This is just a guy frantically just kind of just guessing what to do next.
01:13:55
Zach Sheets
And also be interesting to see like some stuff from the other books because every adaptation has only been man on fire. The first book of the series, there's four, there's five books in the series. Yeah.
01:14:06
Chris Prime
And they just went, alright, well, the first one's the best, and then just keep redoing it. Even though I think further in the movie, Creasy just sort of, like, just becomes the equalizer.
01:14:17
Chris Prime
It's like, alright, I have a family. I guess I don't have a family in this book. yeah I have another family again. They're gone. Like...
01:14:22
Zach Sheets
of the Yeah, it's like they gave family at the end of Man of Fire novel, and then they like they immediately die in the second book. And that's like his like revenge tour for the second book. It's like, they killed my wife and daughter.
01:14:33
Zach Sheets
I have to go kill everyone again. Mm-hmm.
01:14:36
Chris Prime
Well, it becomes like Death Wish books too. Like Death Wish movies where it's like he just wants to live a regular life now and then it's just like, hey, stranger, like, why are you here?
Real-life Inspirations and 'Dad Action Movies'
01:14:48
Chris Prime
Let's do some crime. We're going to do some crime around you.
01:14:53
Zach Sheets
yeah there's there's there's I think there was like quite a few like especially in the 80s like these like action series where like this you know it's like i think we're so like the Reacher history hasn't started yet but that like that's kind of like the you know that's obviously still going and has a show and everything but like there was like all these other kind of like eighty s like 80s like like super super like guy focused like he just just bangs broad and blows things up that's what the see this guy does in every book
01:15:21
Chris Prime
Well, I think Creasy's the only one who, like, he's not romance-driven. That just sort of happens during the downtime.
01:15:26
Zach Sheets
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
01:15:29
Chris Prime
Where... Honestly, if you just take out the romance parts of Bond, it's, like, just a guy doing all sorts of, like, adventures. And he only has... His only weakness is, like, women feel like, to to go to bed with.
01:15:43
Chris Prime
But, like... Otherwise, you get more of, a like, a character from, like, Walking Tall... Which, I don't know that's based on a book.
01:15:53
Zach Sheets
Well, that was that was based on, like, real life.
01:15:56
Chris Prime
Wait, that was based on real life?
01:15:58
Zach Sheets
Walking Tall was like, yeah, it was that like, what's his name? It was like,
01:16:03
Zach Sheets
like, Buford Pusser. Like, he was an actual, like, like like Tennessee sheriff.
01:16:10
Chris Prime
Wow.
01:16:11
Chris Prime
Yeah, I mean, it just seems like he was going out just doing... Like, not Vengeance, but... Yeah, I'm like, Buford Pusser, like, they should definitely do more of that.
01:16:26
Chris Prime
I mean, they try. They always do, like, a Walking... like Also, this was the era where, like, I think they did do another Walking... They did a Walking Tall movie, like... During... like After the rundown?
01:16:38
Zach Sheets
Yeah, yeah. the the the The Rock one, the 2004 one.
01:16:43
Zach Sheets
i oh same The same year as Man of Fire.
01:16:43
Chris Prime
Yeah, so...
01:16:46
Chris Prime
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. They were like, okay, hey. They're they're like similar things where a man wanted not like wanted to have stability than like the crime person just like, oh, no, you don't.
01:16:58
Chris Prime
So, it's... It's in that era of the dad action movies where they just only respond to like older adults that like again, kind of idolize the like, hey, this guy lived a tough life and now would like you've made him mad.
01:17:17
Zach Sheets
and And you know, someone else who's out for vengeance is the Punisher.
01:17:19
Chris Prime
It's like every generation has a set of those. Thank God, like, the John Wick ones are better. But, know, there's a lot of art to them.
01:17:29
Chris Prime
I like this era, too. this is But it's like a precursor. like we would We wouldn't get to the John Wick level without a movie like Man on Fire.
01:17:43
Zach Sheets
and So come back next week. We're talking about
Conclusion and Next Episode Preview
01:17:45
Zach Sheets
Punisher Warzone because we're getting the Punisher One Last Kill, the Marvel special presentation on the 12th. And also John Bernthal's Punisher is going to show up in Spider-Man Brand New Day. So it's like a bunch of Punisher stuff happening this year. So we're going to jump back and talk about the the craziest Punisher movie that's that's come out.
01:18:07
Zach Sheets
Basically, it's like it's basically Crank with the Punisher
01:18:10
Zach Sheets
So yeah, come back and listen to that next week. And head over to all of our users up there. We've got news, reviews, trailers. We've got our Gamebox 2.0 if you want to read about what the games we played this month. You also go back and still listen to our commentary for The Mummy, the 1932 classic is up there.
01:18:29
Zach Sheets
And I also put up a list kind of based on Mana Fire and the ass bomb scene. i did a list of the top 10 cool guys don't look at explosion scenes from movies.
01:18:42
Zach Sheets
So you can read that and check that out. Mana Fire is pretty high that list. Spoilers.
01:18:48
Zach Sheets
And then all the usual stuff on the site is up there as well. Check all that stuff out. And yes, for Chris, I'm Zach. And we will see you next week.