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Punisher: War Zone (2008)
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This week on the Everything Actioncast, Zach and Chris take on the mob with Frank Castle and discuss 2008's Punisher: War Zone as we gear up for The Punisher: One Last Kill on May 12th and The Punisher's appearance in Spider-Man: Brand New Day later this summer.
The third movie based on the Marvel Comics vigilante, Punisher: War Zone sees the late Ray Stevenson starring as Frank Castle, who is six years into his mission to wipe out criminals. After attacking the mob family led by Don Cesare (John Dunn-Hill), Frank is shocked to learn that one of the men he killed was actually an undercover FBI agent, and he tries to make amends to the agent's widow, played by Julie Benz. He'll later protect her and her daughter from Billy Russoti, who was horrifically disfigured by Frank and now goes by Jigsaw (Dominic West).
Zach and Chris discuss the oddly large number of side plots, almost everyone doing some sort of crazy accent, the ridiculously over-the-top violence, how it compares to the comics and other adaptations, Jigsaw's extremely lucrative deal with the FBI, and more.
You can watch Punisher: War Zone on The Roku Channel, Hoopla, or Fawesome. Next week, we're heading into the Danger Zone and discussing the 1986 classic Top Gun as it turns 40.
We want to hear your comments and feedback. Send them all to contact@everythingaction.com. Also, let us know your movie suggestions for us to discuss.
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Transcript
Intro
Introduction & Main Topic Announcement
00:00:19
Zach Sheets
Hello, and welcome to the Everything Action Cast podcast week of May 4th, 2026. I'm your host, Zach.
00:00:24
Chris Prime
I'm your co-host, Chris.
Upcoming Punisher Content & Marvel Connections
00:00:27
Zach Sheets
And this week we're getting some revenge with Frank Castle and talking about Punisher Warzone, because we're actually getting a ton of Punisher stuff in the like like immediately next week and also later this summer because we got Punisher One Last Kill, the the Marvel special coming out on Disney Plus next week and Jon Berthold's Punisher is also going be Spider-Man Brand New Day according to the last trailer we saw.
00:00:52
Zach Sheets
But yeah, before Jon Berthold there was Ray Stevenson as Frank Castle in the the final non-Marvel Studios MCU version Punisher.
00:01:07
Zach Sheets
Although, it started, like, it's weird it came out the same year as, like, the MCU, like, kicked off with Iron Man and c Incredible Hulk.
00:01:15
Chris Prime
But this came out of weird time where I think Lionsgate just had like some existing contract. So they were
Frank Castle's Portrayal & Marvel Canon Complexities
00:01:22
Chris Prime
just like, let's just execute it now to get something out there.
00:01:22
Zach Sheets
Yep.
00:01:24
Zach Sheets
Well, it's it it's got it's got the Marvel Knights banner, which the only other movie that had that was Ghostfire Spirit of Vengeance, which we're to talk about in a couple weeks on the podcast, but... Yeah, it seems it seems like maybe maybe early on Marvel Studios was like, we're going have like this R-rated so like area, split like Splinter. but We're going have like Marvel Studios proper and then Marvel Knights. and But then it's just like, they had two movies. It's like, this isn't working.
00:01:51
Chris Prime
I think they were expecting like blown away blockbuster sales, or they just were confused how this exists in the MCU. I mean, that's what happened now at Sony.
00:02:03
Chris Prime
whenever people some The common person who doesn't really read up on the differences and what is canonical and what's not, it's confusing or already. And for us, I think for movie fans and comic fans,
00:02:14
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
00:02:18
Chris Prime
like you kind of follow the news, you kind of know the pop culture to know the differences. You'll be surprised how just people who don't care to do their research or like have an interest in, I don't know, following something like a particular subculture, which is weird now to think that Marvel was a subculture back in 2008. It's like pop culture now, you know, it's like,
00:02:43
Chris Prime
it's a good time because all that knowledge that we read about and experienced to just kind of ingrain it into our personalities. Like that's not something that we bought from Walmart.
00:02:54
Chris Prime
This is something that like we were Punisher fans before Punisher was in a movie, you know, like,
00:02:59
Zach Sheets
Thanks.
00:03:01
Chris Prime
So, yeah, like that kind of just dedication to following something and to finally get like, this is a comic accurate movie and it doesn't have to do with anything prior. It's its own un know universe.
00:03:14
Chris Prime
It it may be part of the Thomas Jane movie. It may not. Who knows? It's just up in the air.
00:03:21
Zach Sheets
Well, I mean, it originally was going to be like a sequel, a direct s sequel to Tom Jane, Thomas Jane movie. But then, you know, everything kind of like there was like it took a while to get going. And so then like Thomas Jane dropped out.
Punisher Warzone Universe & Character Adaptations
00:03:33
Zach Sheets
They got Ray Stevenson They made it like a standalone sequel or standalone movie.
00:03:35
Chris Prime
I mean, that that that's why it's like, i but they just put enough of it where they they definitely did like, this is its own canon and everything.
00:03:45
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:03:45
Chris Prime
Instead of continuing the vague background of the Punisher, which, you know, in some retellings of the Punisher, they don't really always go back into his origin to be like, this is why he's tormented. It's like, oh, okay, it's very simple.
00:04:02
Zach Sheets
is that He's back in New York and not Miami or wherever he was in the Tom Shane movie.
00:04:07
Chris Prime
Literally could just been like he's just he's just a vigilante hitman. And that's it. It doesn't need to be the Batman origin telling where his parents... Like his like the Waynes get killed in the alley again.
00:04:22
Chris Prime
but they They do that a little bit when we get into it. But that's what's cool is that like besides the skill, he's just a regular person.
00:04:32
Zach Sheets
I mean, he's like a highly skilled marine.
00:04:32
Chris Prime
Like
00:04:33
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
00:04:35
Chris Prime
Right, right. but But in the in the terms of like, this was he's not superhero in the cosmic sense. He's a street level guy and his world is street level crimes.
00:04:47
Chris Prime
And if anything, like the moment you throw like, I don't know, something, some alien at him, he's out of the fight.
00:04:55
Zach Sheets
Although, i will say, like, this Punisher Warzone universe, this is the one where I would, like, I could see, like, the weird Punisher stuff happening. Like, Frankencastle, or like, where you became, like, a demon hunter,
Cartoonish Violence & Directorial Style Comparisons
00:05:07
Zach Sheets
or whatever that was.
00:05:08
Zach Sheets
Like, this universe is the one, because this universe is, like, so, like, over the top and ridiculous and cartoonish.
00:05:08
Chris Prime
True.
00:05:16
Chris Prime
Yeah, there's a little bit of, like, Sin City about this world.
00:05:21
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
00:05:21
Chris Prime
Everyone kind of, like... Everyone either is recovering from impossible injuries or they're like their head explodes with one stiff punch.
00:05:33
Zach Sheets
Yeah, it's it's it's very like Sam Raimi too, where it's just like these, like it's like so over the top and like gruesome, that's hilarious.
00:05:42
Chris Prime
Yeah, it's like everyone, everyone that like doesn't do any fighting or isn't violent. They're so like they they're regular citizens. They're like the normal people. But for every occurrence, it's like the the the underworld and the police and everyone that sort of like is doing the the crime fighting or the crime doing.
00:06:02
Chris Prime
They're just used that like there is a chance that someone's head just explodes or. Yeah, we should just leave some horrific evidence behind like.
00:06:12
Chris Prime
it's not grounded in whatsoever when it comes to the level of, like, cartoonish violence here.
00:06:20
Zach Sheets
Yeah, like Frank can like punch a person in the face and like like again like it's like put his fist through their entire head and so but like like snap people's necks without any issues.
Accents & Performances: A Closer Look
00:06:29
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
00:06:30
Chris Prime
He snapped, like, a person's neck with his feet. He does that the opening. So, yeah, it's like either the criminal underworld is horribly osteoporosisized, or Frank is just like a tank, and you just just never want to get punched by him.
00:06:49
Zach Sheets
okay
00:06:50
Zach Sheets
And he's been like he's been doing it for five years, six years when the movie starts.
00:06:53
Chris Prime
Six years.
00:06:55
Zach Sheets
So it's it's like like very deep into Frank's war on crime.
00:07:00
Chris Prime
at this point, he's like infamous, and he's killed a lot of families. like it mob families, and...
00:07:05
Zach Sheets
Yes, yeah is this this is like the third family, like the... this This family is like the like third family. He's like totally like he's taken out completely wiped out like two or three crime families by this point.
00:07:17
Zach Sheets
And now he's in like the one where you got Billy Rosati.
00:07:23
Chris Prime
Not a big fan of like how weirdly Dominic West's Italian is. It's like stereotypical Jersey Shore italian
00:07:31
Zach Sheets
Everyone, yeah. That's one of the craziest parts movie is like, I feel like everyone is like not doing their, like everyone has to do like a crazy accent.
00:07:42
Zach Sheets
That's like not what they normally do. Like, yeah. Like Ray Stevenson is like, it has to be do like an American accent. And then yeah, Donick West, who is, you know, obviously British is that like a crazy Italian accent.
00:07:55
Zach Sheets
Like Julie Benz is doing an Italian accent. Like Colin Salmon is still like an Italian accent. Or like a New York accent, I guess.
00:08:04
Zach Sheets
feel like the only person who doesn't really have try do an accent is... Was it Dash Mihawk as Soap? He's just like a normal normal a normal voice.
00:08:13
Chris Prime
He's just like the soft-spoken, like, California dude.
00:08:18
Zach Sheets
guess i guess Wayne Knight also doesn't have to do an accent as Mike Rowe.
00:08:20
Chris Prime
But Wayne Knight is just a New Yorker. He's just a typical, like...
00:08:22
Zach Sheets
Yeah. Newman.
00:08:25
Chris Prime
He's just, uh, Newman.
00:08:26
Zach Sheets
Newman.
00:08:27
Chris Prime
Like, uh, edgier Newman. Like, I kind of think It's unfortunate because it's like he has other roles he's done.
00:08:29
Zach Sheets
is this
00:08:33
Chris Prime
He's not just Newman. But he's trying to be, like, tough guy, Wayne Knight. And it's like the only thing he they could think of was he grew a goatee.
00:08:44
Chris Prime
But he is spot on, kind of like 90s error accurate microchip.
00:08:49
Zach Sheets
Oh, yeah, 100%. Absolutely perfect casting for micro.
00:08:55
Zach Sheets
and yeah but but the Yeah, like one of the only, like, because Michael was in, like, what, season two of Punisher, like Netflix Punisher? But it was like, it was like a, just kind of like weird, he was like a CIA hacker or something.
00:09:08
Zach Sheets
It was only like one episode.
00:09:09
Chris Prime
Yep. No, no, he was in it
Jigsaw's Facade & Punisher's Non-verbal Portrayal
00:09:11
Chris Prime
for a while.
00:09:12
Zach Sheets
While, yeah. But it was, it definitely wasn't like comic accurate. It was like this, like, it was like MCU's, like, modern take on it.
00:09:19
Chris Prime
Yeah, yeah. He wasn't in like one episode, man. He was in like a long running part of that season.
00:09:25
Zach Sheets
Okay, it's been it's been like years since saw season
00:09:28
Chris Prime
What? I like it's it's very like different for Punisher because they were trying to give him an ally. So it's not like it's that love hate relationship that the Punisher doesn't really have all the time because most of the time he has partners. They always die.
00:09:47
Chris Prime
So this is the one thing where when you watch that season, you're just like, where are they going to go with this? Is he going to die? And then it's just like, oh, just more rage for the Punisher. But it's definitely worth a rewatch.
00:10:00
Chris Prime
Season two, I think is I like season two better than season three.
00:10:05
Zach Sheets
Well, there was a season three.
00:10:06
Chris Prime
Oh, that then no, then season one of Punisher then.
00:10:09
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:10:11
Zach Sheets
And definitely the best Jigsaw, too, for a bunch of stuff. jigsaw too with this for it's as far as much of your stuff
00:10:19
Chris Prime
For this movie.
00:10:20
Zach Sheets
This movie, yeah. like at least At least like like yo comic accurate just like the the make like well guess it was like a late it was like a latex mask that basically West
00:10:28
Chris Prime
Okay. Let's. When we get into like how he was made. this This is a great comic book. Version of Jigsaw. That is not just. Because like some versions Jigsaw. He literally just wears a Jigsaw mask. Where it's like moving pieces and all that.
00:10:44
Chris Prime
And then somewhere around the 90s, I think they did the, like, let's give him scars so his face is all, like, jigsawed that way. But I don't understand this world where, like, he gets out of prison super quick to get shit plastic surgery.
00:11:04
Zach Sheets
Yeah, that's that's kind of... Yeah, don't and I don't get the... how he goes from... They they pull him out of the the glass crusher machine, and then he's... it's it's it's like the police are pulling him out. And then...
00:11:18
Zach Sheets
It's like, and go to like, he's in like some high rise clinic or something. And he's got his own like private breast surgeon to get like putting his face back together. Kind of.
00:11:29
Chris Prime
I think it's her clinic. I mean, it's it's his clinic. And then, yeah, I don't know why for such a high-end clinic, it's the worst plastic surgery you can get.
00:11:32
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:11:41
Zach Sheets
Well, I mean, because this doctor says, like, he, like, basically his entire facial structure was destroyed. yeah he has like He has no skin, no bone. everything about his face was destroyed. This is the best he could do.
00:11:52
Chris Prime
But then it's like, don't graft skin. Just wait for donor skin. Do something else. you don't like It's like he panicked and guessed how to do facial reconstruction.
00:12:04
Chris Prime
But that's the thing. like The movie doesn't really stress why. It's like, okay, you were looking for Jigsaw. Here's a Jigsaw guy. And here's the doctor that did it. it's like The doctor just closed his eyes and did it?
00:12:13
Zach Sheets
It's very Joker-esque, too, where like he got thrown into like he got a giant vat of something, and then like it's you know it disfigured him or scarred him.
00:12:24
Chris Prime
and This movie does take a lot of inspiration from Batman.
00:12:27
Zach Sheets
Hmm.
00:12:28
Chris Prime
Tim Burton Batman. There's a lot of lighting and and like movie like set pieces that Punisher sits
Action Sequences & Pacing Analysis
00:12:36
Chris Prime
like Batman, like that brooding. And he doesn't talk.
00:12:39
Chris Prime
It's like a a movie where Ray Stevenson only talks when needed. The rest of the time, he is dead silent and grunting.
00:12:48
Zach Sheets
but think i mean the
00:12:48
Chris Prime
Which I don't mind.
00:12:49
Zach Sheets
I think the stat on IMDB is that he doesn't talk for the first 25 minutes.
00:12:53
Chris Prime
Easily. Easily.
00:12:55
Zach Sheets
Yeah, definitely.
00:12:55
Zach Sheets
I mean, definitely that the entire opening sequence, like he doesn't say anything. He just like busts in and starts killing everybody.
00:12:59
Chris Prime
so So let's talk about just like how the movie set up with this one mob family having a dinner. I don't know it was just a regular dinner for them or it was some special event.
00:13:13
Zach Sheets
say i've i think I think there was a news broadcast that Frank was watching where, like, the... i think it was the head like the head of the family got beat, like, a rap or something again.
00:13:23
Chris Prime
Oh, released.
00:13:24
Zach Sheets
Like, he was on trial, but like they they got acquitted.
00:13:29
Chris Prime
I see.
00:13:29
Zach Sheets
and so he's like, oh well, gotta go kill them all because he's like, this justice has failed to failed to me again.
00:13:35
Chris Prime
So, like, there's a thing about this movie where there are other there subplots that are just forgotten. So one of them is, like, the uncle, where he's, like, the head of this family.
00:13:48
Chris Prime
So that was sort of, like, the main target. And then there is the bio weapon that Dominic West is trafficking in.
00:13:59
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:14:00
Chris Prime
That is just not even worth like. I don't think it's in the movie why they needed it it there. Like, it couldn't just be a bomb like it had to be some crazy MacGuffin thing that actually does not pay off whatsoever.
00:14:14
Zach Sheets
A case full blue vials of whatever that they're selling to like the Russian mob, I guess? And then the Russian mob is going to sell it to, like, like terrorists?
00:14:27
Zach Sheets
Because, like, Jigsaw wasn't selling it directly like to terrorists. He was, like, the... Because because he Jigsaw, like, runs the ports, basically. It's, like, kind of his main operation. So then it's, like, well, i'll I'll let you, like, smuggle this into the ports, and I get, like, the big... I get a chunk of it, and then...
00:14:44
Zach Sheets
You know, you give me $10 million dollars and you sell it to whoever you want.
00:14:48
Chris Prime
Oh. So wouldn't there be bigger emphasis of watching the ports more than watching, where Jigsaw goes? Because wasn't the deal always... Like, if the thing is, he owns the port, and he he literally got his face mauled by the Punisher with, like...
00:15:12
Chris Prime
incriminating evidence that they were in deals. Because, like, the the big act introduces that Frank has accidentally killed a FBI agent underground.
00:15:24
Zach Sheets
like an undercover FBI agent.
00:15:26
Chris Prime
Yeah.
00:15:26
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:15:27
Chris Prime
Who is, mind you, undercover because his partner was doing cocaine.
00:15:36
Zach Sheets
Yep.
00:15:36
Chris Prime
Right? that i was like This movie has so much weird... like other side tangents that pop up that, again, make sense in a comic because you think it's going to go that way because the writer doesn't know how much like story to run way out because he doesn't know how long the run's going to be.
00:15:55
Zach Sheets
and there's also and And also the like the undercover agent might have also stolen money. Because that's like a big thing. We've got to get our money back.
00:16:02
Chris Prime
Oh my god, I forgot about the money. That sort of just like goes away.
00:16:05
Zach Sheets
Because that's why Jigsaw like goes to the widow. Because he's like, well, i like obviously it's it's at like he brought it home. He's got he's got a money at his house. He stole it from us. So we've got to tear their house apart to find the money.
00:16:19
Chris Prime
but they don't find the money. And then they never...
00:16:21
Zach Sheets
No, they never find him. He didn't steal it. He was a decent FBI agent who did nothing wrong except be in the way of the Punisher.
00:16:32
Chris Prime
Wow, forgot about the money. that's an See, like there were so many other things that happened that my like you just can't follow it. You're like, oh yeah, that I guess that happened. But that's not established like early. All this is like really just the first act with the mansion and then the Punisher kicking ass and then going down to the dock.
00:16:51
Chris Prime
I think it's the dock again.
00:16:54
Zach Sheets
Yeah, it's docks, and then, like, Jigsaw operates out of, like, this, like, glass recycling plant.
00:17:00
Chris Prime
Which is conveniently in
00:17:00
Zach Sheets
It's, like, it it's the hideout.
Character Dynamics & Psychological Exploration
00:17:01
Chris Prime
the dock.
00:17:02
Zach Sheets
Yep. Mm-hmm.
00:17:04
Chris Prime
So, yeah, the Punisher just goes there and then he doesn't give... l During this time, he gives no speeches. There's no, like, hey, I'm the Punisher or my name's Frank or there's no catchphrase.
00:17:15
Chris Prime
There is no... Man, there's no, like... Besides his branding of wearing the skull, that's it. Like, there's...
00:17:24
Chris Prime
He doesn't, like, do anything that's, like, I'm coming for you, criminals. Like, it just... He literally just...
00:17:29
Zach Sheets
we just't He does make a great entrance with like the flare. He shows up in like they like he like cuts the power, and then shows up in like the dining room with like a flare, and then just runs up and cuts like the uncle's head off with like like a giant knife.
00:17:43
Chris Prime
Which is oddly personal for a guy that is just trying to kill the mobsters. So it's weird that that was his plan. He's like, oh man, I can't wait to like knife this old dude.
00:17:53
Zach Sheets
And then he does like a, like, I feel like it had to be like an homage to like Boondock Saints, right? Where you're like, he hangs from the chandelier upside down.
00:18:00
Chris Prime
I don't know that. I don't know that's the Boonauts or if that is. It was a 3000 miles to Graceland. There's a scene where he does that same move.
00:18:12
Chris Prime
But he doesn't, like, kill a lot of people. it It just looks cool, and then they just shoot at him, because he's a spinning target.
00:18:18
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:18:19
Chris Prime
Like, you're spinning, but you're spinning in place.
00:18:23
Chris Prime
It's not like he's moving. I know he's like a chandelier shooting around in a circle, but...
00:18:28
Zach Sheets
I guess the momentum spins you around. cause i got i mean The idea is like you get a 360, spin around and shoot everyone in the room hanging for the chain of the air. You gotta like have some momentum. like I guess the guns are pushing you around.
00:18:42
Chris Prime
I guess. I don't know if it's got enough to like really spin you that fast that you can't be shot.
00:18:50
Zach Sheets
yeah so it seems like just just you know just stand on at a table and just like spin yourself around. you probably have a better... You'd do faster and have more control over it.
00:18:57
Chris Prime
Oh, yeah, you. But like, I also don't see Ray Stevenson pulling off like a ballerina move.
00:19:05
Zach Sheets
like arms arms totally outstretched spinning.
00:19:09
Chris Prime
Because that's something like you'd see as like the scarecrow, or like the crow would do, where it he's, again, table shootout, very classic structure.
00:19:19
Chris Prime
Well, let's go let's break down the scene real quick. So that scene where he's ambushing the mob in their own territory by cutting the lights, and with a flare, that's taken out Batman year one. It's a very famous scene where he he says, none of you are safe.
00:19:32
Zach Sheets
here
00:19:34
Chris Prime
And then... you get the this the attack through the table where he's fighting all the members, like Morgan on the line. That is very reminiscent of the crow. Brendan leads crow.
00:19:48
Chris Prime
And then it's like, alright, bright light, city shootout, spin attack. That's just a video game now. That is just...
00:19:55
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
00:19:56
Chris Prime
That is something you would see out of, like, Hard Boiled.
00:20:00
Chris Prime
But it's cool. like that i mean That alone should sell a lot of people on that this is a silly action movie that is based on a comic. you know' you You're not supposed to be here and see like some sort of grounded reality. Only because when I first saw that scene, I was blown away. I was like, alright, trapped in.
00:20:19
Chris Prime
I saw this movie as a rental.
00:20:22
Zach Sheets
Uh...
00:20:22
Chris Prime
I didn't see this in theaters, but I imagine if I saw this in theaters, have been like one of my favorite movies of the year, just because... It's just like the kind of relaxing, mindless action movie that in the 2008s, like it was just all about.
00:20:38
Chris Prime
Like, think about it. Crank came out the year prior. Crank 2, think.
00:20:45
Zach Sheets
and Well, Crank 1 was 2006, and then i think High Voltage was the year after this? Yeah, it was 2009. Yeah.
00:20:54
Chris Prime
Yeah, so it's that year that that that early 2000s where action movies didn't need a break. Or I mean, like they were just like pumping out like intense sequence by sequence and then like just small connective backstories. This one through too many backstories and then little too many subplots.
00:21:14
Chris Prime
But I think this was meant for the people who love crank. Like there's a little bit of that crank energy where it's just like watch like nonstop action for like 10 minutes
00:21:25
Zach Sheets
Which is funny because then like the next the only other Marvel Knights movie is from guy who's made Craig.
00:21:29
Chris Prime
yeah let's see like i like there's a there's a pattern here they're like cool they probably should just got those guys to make this movie too but alex uh alexi alexandria like she didn't do a bad job for this like she knew how to like get for me like as a comic fan like she knew how to get people like
00:21:39
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:21:49
Chris Prime
Prepare yourself. This is what the movie's gonna be about.
00:21:52
Zach Sheets
Yeah, Frank's going to punch a put his fist through somebody's face, and you're going to see like it's going to splatter.
00:21:59
Chris Prime
Oh, that's later in the act. the Like, the first act is literally the the mansion massacre. And then it's the, like, sad, like, regretful Punisher where he accidentally shoots the undercover agent.
00:22:11
Chris Prime
And then... Yeah, then comes the, like, world-building after. In fact,
Climactic Showdown & Moral Dilemmas
00:22:17
Chris Prime
that's where, like, they start introducing, like, oh, by the way, the Punisher, uh, he had a tragic, you know, picnic one day with his family.
00:22:26
Zach Sheets
Oh, man. I love Ray Stevenson's flashback hair. like he he's he's wearing like it's he's almost wearing like you holley like it's like that old where sweater around you like you you get the strip right from your shoulders.
00:22:40
Chris Prime
he's about to go play, like, tennis?
00:22:42
Zach Sheets
yeah like he he looks like that like he looks like an eighty s like yuppy dad like
00:22:47
Chris Prime
I don't even see...
00:22:47
Zach Sheets
come on kids we're gonna be like for tennis practice like
00:22:49
Chris Prime
I don't even know what his family looks like. They're all, like, obscured in the flashback, and then you don't really get super clear up close with, like, the the actors who played his family.
00:23:05
Chris Prime
It's like, for all I know, it's it's like Julia Benes, like, and then, like, the yeah, it's it's her in a different wig, and then, like, the same daughter in a different wig.
00:23:09
Zach Sheets
It truly depends, yeah.
00:23:17
Zach Sheets
I wouldn't be surprised considering this movie we got i' apparently got its like budget cut a bunch of times.
00:23:21
Chris Prime
I feel like you could sense it in this movie. i I start noticing, like, oh, they didn't have time for reshoots, or, like, they had a limited amount of time, so there's, like, this scene they threw in here.
00:23:33
Chris Prime
And then for every reason, whenever there's a kid involved in the movies, they, like, have to spend more money for, like, safety concerns, or, like, how much you could film with the child in in a day, so You could tell where they're like, okay, we this we need a kid for this one scene. Ray Stevenson, we're going to give you a haircut to match that other scene.
00:23:53
Zach Sheets
out the... but out but on and Was it a wig? Because he's got like a slick back hairstyle for when he's a Punisher. Maybe they just took all the grease out and that was his normal hair.
00:24:07
Chris Prime
Yeah, I think it's just because no one has slicked back like that unless it's like you're going super bald and at that point, like you could tell. Meanwhile, like, this is a cool Punisher where, like, it makes sense that, like, he is, like, not not to sound stereotypical, but, like, he's looking to be more of a, like, the grungy, like, veteran that doesn't have time for, like, makeup, but he has time to put Paul May in his hair to slick it back every day, like, to every night to go out.
00:24:39
Zach Sheets
yeah throw Yeah.
00:24:40
Chris Prime
So it's like, guess?
00:24:43
Zach Sheets
Yeah, throw on like your your battle armor and then, yeah, slick your hair back and then head out.
00:24:49
Chris Prime
I mean, it makes sense because in the 2000s era of the Punisher, he did have the slick back hair look. The one in the 90s, he had like a he looked like Scott Summers where he had like a feathered like wavy hair.
00:25:01
Chris Prime
And then it looked cool. Very like anime inspire. Not like spiky, but just like it's very detailed. But it always stood out that the Punisher was like waking up and then like doing his hair and then like.
00:25:15
Chris Prime
See, it didn't make sense for what?
00:25:15
Zach Sheets
i said what That was the one part of his humanity that he kept. I'm sure my hair looks good.
00:25:18
Chris Prime
Yeah. I gotta make sure all my edges are crisp so that when I run around this giant skull and, like, battle boots, everything kind of matches.
00:25:28
Chris Prime
And then the 90s one, oh the late 90s to early 2000s was just the black shirt and then gray pants sometimes, like, just a t-shirt and baby gloves. It's almost like where the Thomas Jane Punisher came up where he just looked like a regular dude, but then he just put on the skull, like, that was it. Or it's like, he he just...
00:25:50
Chris Prime
His weaponry was his like armor. So he didn't need some crazy outfit. But I do appreciate it when the Punisher puts on, like, I'm the Punisher man.
00:26:02
Zach Sheets
yeah do you Do you think we'll ever see in live action like the classic like like the black bodysuit with the the white so the white boots the white gloves on?
00:26:07
Chris Prime
Boots and...
00:26:11
Chris Prime
I don't know. Like it just it in in the MCU, it only makes sense after a few years where like people like the X-Men are running out because like the X-Men need to be there first to establish we now have like a uniform standard where this is our fighting clothes.
Religious Conflict & Film's Legacy
00:26:30
Chris Prime
You know what mean? Like Spider-Man, it makes sense for him to have a full body because like.
00:26:31
Zach Sheets
yes
00:26:37
Chris Prime
Like if not, you see some teens gangly arms.
00:26:41
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
00:26:42
Chris Prime
And then it's like when he's an adult, he gets more like shirtless or like sleeveless and more like different outfits. But that's the thing. Spider-Man outfits. Spider-Man has a lot of outfits. None of them have him like sleeveless.
00:26:56
Chris Prime
Or it's like you don't want to show him what color he is just because like the point is that it's like it could be anybody. But the Punisher, since he has like he's just Frank Castle, he doesn't need like a costume.
00:27:12
Chris Prime
Because everyone knows Frank Castle.
00:27:14
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:27:14
Chris Prime
like In this world, they know Frank Castle.
00:27:17
Zach Sheets
And he he also doesn't care because it's like, my family's dead. don't care who knows about Frank Castle. Like...
00:27:22
Chris Prime
Yep.
00:27:24
Chris Prime
And that's like the the thing about the Punisher. is that Everyone knows him. And then because of that, like he has allies and enemies. And it's like a moral struggle between like who do you help.
00:27:36
Chris Prime
But it's not that... And not that hard because like if people like Jigsaw are like not a not a rise where that's the answer to the Punisher where it's like that Batman Begins or Batman Dark Knight where like was the Joker a natural like evolution of villains to fight combat against batman because batman's the natural evolution of like heroes where in that world like but someone but a type of batman had to come from the crime and then joker is like a type of villain that had to combat the batman so yeah the escalation so like
00:28:01
Zach Sheets
you
00:28:17
Zach Sheets
yeah yeah The escalation.
00:28:22
Chris Prime
that's the thing about like, even in this version of that, where the Punisher was like the answer to the crazy crime that's happening in New York, I assume. And then, Dominic West is there, but he, he doesn't, he doesn't have crazy powers. He's just like a regular dude. Also.
00:28:41
Zach Sheets
just He's just like a jabroni. He's like a said mobster jabroni. Yeah.
00:28:46
Chris Prime
And then yeah then it's crazy because like I want to go back and mention that they're there. The crew difference between the older Italian mob and the Dominic West version, the Rossetti team, is that like they needed to have more wacky like people on his crew.
00:28:59
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:29:04
Chris Prime
it it
00:29:04
Zach Sheets
Yes.
00:29:05
Chris Prime
It's like his brother was locked up, so he wasn't part of it. I feel like he should be part of it early. And then he he needed more zany guys that, like, make him sort of, like, be an outcast within his family.
00:29:20
Zach Sheets
He's got, like, Pitsy, who is, like, the old dad, then... Yeah. Yeah. and then
00:29:25
Chris Prime
Yeah.
00:29:25
Zach Sheets
it's
00:29:26
Chris Prime
who Who's competent?
00:29:26
Zach Sheets
eight
00:29:27
Chris Prime
Because he's from the old world, but he chooses Dominic, like, because of whatever reason.
00:29:31
Zach Sheets
yeah And then Ink, who is Pitsy's son, who is like, the fighting thing is like, I do cocaine.
00:29:39
Chris Prime
yeah And that's it, like.
00:29:40
Zach Sheets
i sort i st start cocaine constantly.
00:29:44
Chris Prime
He's just Roxo, the mobster clown.
00:29:47
Zach Sheets
Well, I guess, they also I mean, they also have, like, their, like, allies who are the the urban flow guys, the parkour guys.
00:29:54
Chris Prime
Not really, like, unless...
00:29:55
Zach Sheets
Well, they're It's like, they're not but they're not part of the crew, but it's like they're that's like they are like, do dealings they do dealings with them.
00:30:03
Chris Prime
yes I guess. mean, they don't even have weapons.
00:30:06
Zach Sheets
is it And is the Urban Flow Gang just those three guys? Like, that's it?
00:30:09
Chris Prime
Yep.
00:30:10
Zach Sheets
It's just those three guys? that like the It's like, oh man, the Urban Flow Gang, everyone knows them.
00:30:16
Chris Prime
So we'll get into like how like the backstory between those guys are. It's pretty hilarious. But just the fact that there is one cutaway scene where they mention where they actually did crime, where they murdered a convenience store person.
00:30:33
Zach Sheets
really like a machete to her face or something. It's like...
00:30:35
Chris Prime
I don't even know what they they just stole money from a convenience store. with Was that protection? I have no idea.
00:30:41
Zach Sheets
think they also say that they're like constantly on meth.
00:30:44
Chris Prime
Yep, that's like just quickly dropped like all their meth heads like, okay, so they do parkour and meth.
00:30:50
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
Final Thoughts & Conclusion
00:30:53
Zach Sheets
But i I do love the like subversion where it gets to be like this, like oh man, Frank is going to like chase down these parkour guys and like but it's like try to get information out of them. and just like It's like there's like they're running around to like pop punk or whatever and then all of a sudden rocket like flies out and blows one them up.
00:31:13
Chris Prime
Mid-jump.
00:31:14
Zach Sheets
Mid-jump. And then Frank just snipes the other guy and then shoots the other guy the legs. It's like, that's it. that's thats He's taking them all out. that's the It's done now.
00:31:22
Chris Prime
Well, I mean, if their superpower is being athletic and doing drugs, like... Yeah, no, those are just like... Anyone could have shot them. They don't seem like they had any... Besides the machete, I guess, they used against that one person, Gevin's Stuart, they don't have any... Other powers, or any kind of like...
00:31:44
Chris Prime
gimmick
00:31:46
Zach Sheets
Well, the thing, too, was like I guess Lexi Alexander thought that parkour was being overused. like a lot It was like constant parkour. Casino Royale came out like the couple years before this. something like that it's like It was like, oh, ever's it's all parkour now. like That's the big action sequence. So he's just like, I'm fed up with parkour. just going to have like the Punishers kill these parkour guys easily.
00:32:07
Chris Prime
I imagine her background as a stunt person and a martial artist. She knows parkour doesn't always mean like you could fight or like you are more intimidating just because you can maneuver around an urban area.
00:32:21
Zach Sheets
Yeah, it's movement. It's not fighting. you so you You're like maneuvering, like move a quickly across different like obstacles.
00:32:28
Chris Prime
I'm not saying that that person isn't strong or athletic. It just doesn't translate into being super tough in a...
00:32:36
Zach Sheets
It's not a martial art.
00:32:38
Chris Prime
No. Even though I think like the guy who funded parkour made it popular from like District B12 or B13, it makes it look intimidating just because it's very fast and fluid.
00:32:45
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
00:32:51
Chris Prime
But in terms of like, okay, so if you fistfight against these people, if you've got nothing to jump from, what do you do?
00:33:01
Zach Sheets
Yeah, they're like Gymkata. They're like... They need something to jump off of or flip off of.
00:33:04
Chris Prime
They need the equipment.
00:33:11
Chris Prime
So I like that Punisher's answer is, I have weapons.
00:33:15
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:33:17
Chris Prime
Which is a very like Punisher response.
00:33:21
Zach Sheets
Yeah, she shoots like the leader legs, interrogates them, and throws them off a roof. Like spike. Yeah.
00:33:28
Zach Sheets
Right? Like, conveniently, just as, like, soap and age Agent Budiansky roll up, and they're like, oh, crap, Punisher's on the roof.
00:33:41
Zach Sheets
Oh, we should probably mention when Jigsaw goes to bust his brother out of the Ysane Asylum.
00:33:50
Zach Sheets
but like The introduction of Looney Bin Jim.
00:33:51
Chris Prime
Yeah, that...
00:33:54
Chris Prime
Man, I think, like, Lee Ben Jim is an interesting character just because he's got a, like, a weird obsession about the human body. And I don't know if, like, was he... Was he cannibal before this? Or was it, like, his...
00:34:16
Chris Prime
his like something happened that turned him into a cannibal like we never know about his background for some weird reason
00:34:22
Zach Sheets
No, yeah. they were They were just like...
00:34:25
Chris Prime
like he's such a original character so it's like okay so what besides being like also like a parkour man like what
00:34:27
Zach Sheets
a
00:34:35
Zach Sheets
They were like pumping in full of like sedatives at the insane asylum. And then... Yeah, Jigsaw shows up, busts him out, and then he eats he eats the orderly. rips out his heart and starts eating it.
00:34:47
Chris Prime
think it's Kidney.
00:34:48
Zach Sheets
Oh, yeah, kidneys. yeah, because he mentioned something the kidneys are like full of nutrients or something.
00:34:53
Zach Sheets
Why didn't Jigsaw bust him out earlier if he like he was like, oh, it's my brother. He just let him rot in Asado style until he needed him, I guess?
00:35:01
Chris Prime
I mean, I think if he took him out, his uncle might have disowned him. Like, it would have probably distanced him.
00:35:07
Zach Sheets
Maybe, yeah. Yeah, because now Jigsaw's the boss. they He can do whatever he wants now.
00:35:11
Chris Prime
Mm-hmm. I think that was like the the hint in the beginning where the uncle was like, I should have locked you up just like your brother because he's in control of everything.
00:35:19
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
00:35:21
Chris Prime
so i mean, it makes sense. like You don't want a loose cannon in your crew.
00:35:26
Zach Sheets
Yeah. I think Jigsaw and Liam and Jim also, it's kind of like a weirdly sweet relationship where Liam and Jim doesn't care that he's starred up. He's like, you look fantastic, brother. And then when they go to the hotel, he's like, I'm going to smash all these mirrors for you so you don't to look at yourself.
00:35:46
Chris Prime
Yeah, he actually is like a good brother.
00:35:49
Zach Sheets
They're they're like super supportive of each other. even though they're both homicidal maniacs.
00:35:54
Chris Prime
yeah.
00:35:56
Zach Sheets
Yeah. then And then, yeah, the Frank, Frank, like for like a lot of the second, i Frank, Frank is like struggling because he he killed like a, a good person, like a, like a, a good guy. and he's he's, he's thinking about quitting. He's trying to like make it up to like the, like Julie Ben's like giving her money.
00:36:12
Zach Sheets
And then, uh, he goes, you know, he goes to the micro and was like, hey I'm gonna leave, I'm leaving town. But then like, Michael was like, well, should, you gotta, you should probably stay because you know, uh, Rosé's gonna like probably target the family.
00:36:24
Zach Sheets
and i love this I like when like like Frank walks out and Microw knows him so well he just counts down to when he's going to walk back into the room and get guns.
00:36:34
Chris Prime
Yeah, I like that Micro knows Frank long enough to figure out like his patterns. And then for like a weapons hideout, it could have been a better place.
00:36:44
Zach Sheets
was it It's It's his mom's apartment.
00:36:49
Chris Prime
no lock on the door. Because Frank walks right back in, no like security measure.
00:36:56
Zach Sheets
Yeah, i mean probably should have something because he's got like, you know, he's got like like like those multiple cabinets of guns everywhere.
00:37:02
Chris Prime
But I don't think later on the movie, like, they get the guns are raided or anything, right?
00:37:09
Zach Sheets
Yeah, I don't i don't yeah don't think Jigsaw Doohyma Jim or whoever like goes like when they go like and like blow them on his face off. with They like take any of the guns or like realize there's guns there because they like those cabinets are like empty or anything.
00:37:23
Zach Sheets
Yeah, Frank just goes here and sees like Micro's mom with their head blown off. And he's like, oh no. They got Micro.
00:37:31
Chris Prime
Now, it's sad that, like, they they show that there's basically this old woman that's canatonic, and then just, like, she doesn't get, like, any, like, there's just, like, horrible tragedy for her.
00:37:43
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
00:37:44
Chris Prime
But, I mean, that's it shows you, like, how crazy this movie is. Like, the like no one's safe. Like, all all these minor characters are not safe.
00:37:52
Zach Sheets
Yeah, anyone can get their head blown off at any time. In, like, crazy practical fashion.
00:38:00
Zach Sheets
And, like, like when like Jigsaw, when they actually when they do, like, go in, like, they go to, like, Julie Benson's house and like are, like, trying to, like rip it like like, rip it apart and then, like, Frank shows up.
00:38:12
Zach Sheets
actually, like, uh,
00:38:14
Zach Sheets
Well, I guess H.E.P.D. actually arrests him because Colin Sam is like determined, like, I'm going to arrest you for like for killing my partner. and then they they go to like Julie Benz's house, like make sure she's okay, and then like Soap like lets Frank out because Soap's secretly helping Frank the entire time.
00:38:31
Chris Prime
I like their dynamic. It's it's got like a nice... It is more of a... I'm just a fascinated detective, but I do my job. It's like you find out in the movie that they do have a relationship.
00:38:47
Zach Sheets
Yeah, I'm sure he's probably like actively feeding Frank stuff, like feeding him intel and feeding him like stuff to like so he can like go kill people.
00:38:54
Chris Prime
Yeah, secretly Soap is guiding Frank into... end his war.
00:39:01
Chris Prime
But then there's also like something up with that police station. I feel like there was a side plot within that. Like it might have been the police station might have been corrupt. Some of the officers are not. It it doesn't they never expand on that.
00:39:14
Chris Prime
But but they they kind of hinted on that. but They do something.
00:39:17
Zach Sheets
Yeah, because they will they they they shove soap in the basement, and he's he's got like the Punisher Tax Force in the basement with with like his conspiracy boards and everything. But yeah, all the other cops just are like... I guess they're just late. they They don't care. they well Everyone kind of seems like everyone's fine with Frank doing whatever he's doing. this is like well i mean He's killing criminals. We don't care. We're going to arrest him.
00:39:42
Chris Prime
Yeah, it's a weird message that they're putting out there. And then it kind of makes sense that the the crime would be... Okay, but it's the scary fact that there is a like criminal hunting punisher out there, but I think you just have in the mob.
00:39:59
Chris Prime
like He's not killing anyone else.
00:40:01
Zach Sheets
yeah
00:40:02
Chris Prime
like He's not killing carjackers and like bank robbers. It seems like he's just like, okay, well, are you mob related? Okay, I hate the mob. Or gang related, he will go after you.
00:40:15
Zach Sheets
it's It's also like kind of the weird arc for Colin Salmon is like to like be like, you know what, Frank? You're right. Your way is the right way.
00:40:23
Chris Prime
Yeah. He breaks him down where it's like, well, were you going to stop Jigsaw? No. right, then get out my way.
00:40:32
Chris Prime
Can you fix your nose with a pencil like I do?
00:40:35
Zach Sheets
but my God, that was crazy, yeah. like he be like When he opens, he breaks his nose, like, head breaks the guy, and then, yeah, just, like, not even saying, no words, just, like, puts a special nose and, like, just snaps back in place.
00:40:49
Chris Prime
Great scene.
00:40:50
Zach Sheets
It shows you how, like, yeah, how, you know, tough and, like, not caring
00:40:56
Chris Prime
Well, I do like that this Punisher movie and, you know, like I think a lot of Punisher movies things where it's like he still gets injured. He still gets shot. He has issues like he needs to reload. So it's not just like action man. Nothing goes wrong for him.
00:41:12
Zach Sheets
Well, at least at least he's wearing like yo bulletproof vests. He's got like tactical armor on. Unlike last week, you talked about Man of Fire, where John Creasy is wearing a suit, like a tracksuit. He's shot 20 times, but he's dying.
00:41:29
Chris Prime
Yeah, his giant crazy power is I'll collect all the bullets that are in me.
00:41:30
Zach Sheets
like
00:41:36
Zach Sheets
Yeah, Frank is shot, but he's like he's yeah know he's got like actual tactical gear on, so he's like able to keep going.
00:41:41
Chris Prime
Yeah, he like shrugs it off a little bit, but he's still like not great.
00:41:48
Zach Sheets
But, yeah, and then and and in the middle of the movie, too, like well like when Frank is like kind of like dealing with, like you know, he he killed like this this FBI agent. ji Jigsaw and Louie and Jim are also like there's trying to set up this deal where i think it's the Russian mob is trying to smuggle in some sort of biological weapon.
00:42:11
Zach Sheets
And then then the Russian mob is going to sell it to like terrorists. And Jigsaw makes a deal with the cops and the feds to give him immunity and also let him keep the money from the deal he was making with the Russian mob. And then he'll let them arrest the FBI can arrest the Russian mob and get the biological agent before it gets on the streets.
00:42:38
Zach Sheets
Which is like...
00:42:39
Chris Prime
A weird exchange.
00:42:41
Zach Sheets
but but like such such Such an insane deal for like... So like... On Jigsaw's advantage. of like I get immunity for any crime. And also I get twelve like $12 million. dollars
00:42:51
Chris Prime
Yeah, just for like pointing out that he was going to do a arms deal in his own warehouse.
00:42:59
Chris Prime
I get like leniency on like a sentence, but not just all you're free to go.
00:43:04
Zach Sheets
I mean... I can even see just like... Yeah, immunity. But like... don't don't give him the money he was going to make.
00:43:12
Zach Sheets
Like, yeah, you're going to give the mafia $12 million to whatever they want. Like, probably worse things.
00:43:17
Chris Prime
Yeah, they funded terrorism.
00:43:17
Zach Sheets
or equally Equally worse. Yeah, pretty much.
00:43:23
Zach Sheets
And then I think and i think that is kind of like their funding for building up their army of other gangs. to like Because their big plan is we're going to kidnap Mike Rowe. We're going to kidnap Julie Benz and her daughter. going to hold them hostage and they'll lure Frank here. And then we have an army of like every every type of gang you can imagine are in like this like abandoned hotel.
00:43:47
Chris Prime
Okay, so the MacGuffin, one of the MacGuffins of this movie is that the mob money was stolen, right?
00:43:55
Zach Sheets
o
00:43:56
Chris Prime
And then that gets solved because the FBI just gives him the money?
00:44:01
Zach Sheets
even like 10 times when he was looking for it i think i think they mentioned like uh julie benson's husband stole they thought he stole like two hundred thousand dollars or something because like two hundred thousand dollars is missing it's like oh here's you're you're missing two hundred thousand dollars here's 12 million
00:44:19
Chris Prime
I don't understand the government was like, you got it. Like, like, like they, they knew everything about the case, but, but like, what, what more like red handedness do they need?
00:44:35
Zach Sheets
And also, I kind of thought, like, the FBI agent that makes the deal was, like, corrupt. Like, he was injunct, so I was, like, pocket, but it's like, no, he's just an idiot who's like, sure, we'll make that deal.
00:44:40
Chris Prime
See, I thought so too.
00:44:47
Chris Prime
See what I mean? Like, I thought the police were in on it or the FBI. And that's why Frank is like, I don't trust this. Like, this is bad. Mike Rose, like, by the way, like, we got a rep. we're We need to root out both sides, like the mob and the corrupt agents.
00:45:03
Chris Prime
So in order for this to work, like, we got to do some silly, like, tricks.
00:45:08
Zach Sheets
Oh, they also, the FBI also gives, that they give Jigsaw, like, the file on Micro so they know his name and where he is and everything.
00:45:14
Chris Prime
Yep. So that's, I'm like, I don't understand this. How is the FBI not to blame later?
00:45:23
Zach Sheets
like, oh yeah, we'll sacrifice this guy. we know you're probably gonna, like, fight him and kill him.
00:45:28
Chris Prime
And then it's like, this is for revenge for killing the FBI agent. I guess, right? Wouldn't it make sense that, uh,
00:45:40
Chris Prime
the FBI agent did this out of like revenge for his partner, not knowing the concept of how big the consequence would be. And not just some random other agent that just makes the deal with Jigsaw and then gives him the money and the file.
00:45:56
Zach Sheets
just He just yeah who just shows up like, hey, I'm i'm i'm dealing with him now. like out of my way. outrank you.
00:46:06
Chris Prime
I mean, he he literally keeps making bad deals and at least it progresses.
00:46:06
Zach Sheets
but I think...
00:46:11
Zach Sheets
but the but I think it's probably... what like well Along with like Julie Benz getting kidnapped, but like I think it's like like that that like deal turns Salmon to Frank's side.
00:46:21
Zach Sheets
Because...
00:46:22
Chris Prime
Oh, OK. Because maybe he realizes like how like it's not.
00:46:27
Zach Sheets
like this This is fucked up. Because
00:46:28
Chris Prime
Yeah. All this is going wrong.
00:46:32
Zach Sheets
then he and Soap go to like the Russian mobster's father. He's like, hey... you want to You want to get the guy that like put your son in jail? like Go to this address. your address
00:46:44
Chris Prime
Also, do you think that Punisher kills those guys while in the same hotel later?
00:46:51
Zach Sheets
Probably. I'm sure like anyone in that hotel is probably like a Target.
00:46:56
Chris Prime
it's like they sort of introduce a third party that's going around, but I don't know like if that group also got wiped out in that gunfight because we never see that Russian side again.
00:47:08
Zach Sheets
No. i feel I feel like they i felt that like they kind of wiped each other out, like, whatever that lobby fight was. like That was kind of like, everyone like just wiped each other out in that scene.
00:47:17
Chris Prime
And it's weird because like they just wased they wasted the opportunity for a surprise by just firing at the first group in the lobby.
00:47:17
Zach Sheets
And then...
00:47:27
Chris Prime
That wasn't even Dominic West's group. like They were upstairs. They were just like, okay, get in the building and then...
00:47:32
Zach Sheets
Yeah, they were they're like triads or something. Or like, Yakuza. But then...
00:47:37
Chris Prime
Yeah, they were just generic Asian gang. But like that's what I'm saying. The Russian mob just walked in and goes, all right, you guys.
00:47:43
Zach Sheets
Yeah, at least at least like pretend that you're like there to like help, but then like make your way all the way get all the way to Jigsaw and be like oh, by the way, Pally, we're going to kill you.
00:47:52
Chris Prime
Yeah, this is for my son.
00:47:53
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:47:54
Chris Prime
Not even that. That's why I'm like, I kind of don't know what happened to them. They just show up and then just firing and then that's it.
00:48:04
Zach Sheets
Yeah, and then Frank like jumps into the second story like from a building across the street into like the second story, and that's when he starts like going through and like taking people out.
00:48:13
Chris Prime
So maybe he just never makes his way downstairs.
00:48:16
Zach Sheets
I don't think, yeah.
00:48:18
Chris Prime
So they'd like it.
00:48:19
Zach Sheets
I guess they end making their way out downstairs and they leave, but I guess everyone's dead because they just walk out.
00:48:27
Chris Prime
that or maybe the the Russian mob did their one thing and went alright and then just like peaced out we got revenge by shooting the first gang in the lobby that had nothing to do with the sun yep
00:48:36
Zach Sheets
Yep. Yeah, they didn't even know who my son was, but you just we just killed him anyway.
00:48:43
Chris Prime
that's I'm like they they're not a good gang like the the not in terms of morals but like in terms of planning
00:48:52
Zach Sheets
But yeah, this the this felt the final, like, the big, like, this, like, big, like, like, Frank just, like, making his way through the hotel is a pretty awesome action sequence. i think my the favorite I think the best shot is when he, there's that the shot where, like, he's on the other side, one side of the door, and then the other side door is, like all these, like, like, gangsters, and then, like, he, like, shoots, like, the grenade in there and blows them all up.
00:49:11
Zach Sheets
I think that was, like, that was like like I think, like, a big, like, trailer shot. It was like that in all the trailers. The explosions going up killing everybody.
00:49:21
Zach Sheets
and then he also has like he has this big fight with Liam and Jim in like the bathroom. like The run-down bathroom where he throws him against like the beer and everything and they have like this big knockdown fight.
00:49:35
Chris Prime
Hustle. But like, I like that Louis Ben-Gym also has that like, he has a yeah medical knowledge where he starts describing injuries.
00:49:41
Zach Sheets
Medical knowledge.
00:49:46
Chris Prime
it it It's a very interesting character played by such a bad actor. Like, Doug Hutchinson. Terrible guy in real life.
00:49:55
Zach Sheets
Oh, yeah, yeah, 100%, yeah. Yeah,
00:49:58
Chris Prime
But in this, yeah, like you you think he's like an evil guy because like he just has that energy that matches dynamic Wes's jigsaw. And it's fun that like Looney Bin Jim is just like an original character.
00:50:15
Zach Sheets
especially because almost every other person in the character's movie is from comic arc.
00:50:20
Chris Prime
hmm. I didn't really read a lot of Punisher Max comics. It's one of those things where around that time, I was kind of narrowing down my comic book collection just to be like Spider-Man and a few one-offs.
00:50:32
Chris Prime
But I love that the Max series was just like a perfect Punisher comic arc. It might as well just been Punisher like only. You know, like I don't think they they tried other characters, but the Punisher totally makes sense for that.
00:50:49
Zach Sheets
Oh, yeah, there was like other like other Macs like books.
00:50:53
Chris Prime
there's like Wolverine Max, maybe. Let's get a quick look. Who else got a Max? And technically it's not defunct. It's just like its own thing that they don't really use a lot.
00:51:06
Chris Prime
The last Max was 2024. Blade.
00:51:10
Zach Sheets
Deadpool, Nick Fury, Howard the Duck was maxed.
00:51:12
Chris Prime
blade
00:51:17
Zach Sheets
Man, they yeah, they they threw every everyone got a max at some point, it looks like.
00:51:22
Zach Sheets
Shang-Chi,
00:51:26
Chris Prime
yeah i i might have I might have the Shang-Chi Max.
00:51:26
Zach Sheets
Luke Cage, Blade.
00:51:30
Zach Sheets
Yeah, you're right. like You're definitely right. Yeah, like, a Punisher is, like... It should have just been, like, the Punisher, and that's the only Max you need, is because like he's, like, the perfect like Max character of, like, you know, mature, bloody, over... Like... Because Because that is the Punisher.
00:51:49
Chris Prime
Mm-hmm.
00:51:51
Zach Sheets
But, uh... and Yeah, going back to, like it like, after the big Leeba Jim fight, like, Leeba Jim kind of like, runs off. Like, he, like, is getting, he's starting to get, like, like beaten down by the Punisher, so he just runs off.
00:52:04
Chris Prime
He just kind of, like, scampers away.
00:52:04
Zach Sheets
And then...
00:52:06
Chris Prime
It's not like he has some crazy, like, hatch or anything in the hotel. He just sort of runs into the next room.
00:52:11
Zach Sheets
Yep.
00:52:13
Zach Sheets
like well like i lead I guess it leads Frank into... like i i mean what what is Was it like a pool? I don't we know what that room is. like it's like It's like this...
00:52:21
Chris Prime
I think it was a steam room, but it...
00:52:24
Zach Sheets
A steam room?
00:52:25
Chris Prime
it It's like weirdly laid out for like an audience. Like it looks like a old operation area, but it, you know, like a medical like theater.
00:52:36
Zach Sheets
It's a raised platform. It's got columns. there's like it yeah It looks like there was like a like some sort of like water... feature that's dry now and there's there's a giant like fire pit in the middle of it
00:52:43
Chris Prime
Feature. Yeah.
00:52:51
Zach Sheets
and then you've got like and then jigsaw like like this so they got micro they have julie benzen her daughter and it's like it's kind of the classic like action hero conundrum like like choose one and and then you gotta to kill the other one or we'll kill the other one they're they're go They're forcing Frank to like shoot who are like the one of them and then the other one will let go.
00:53:13
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:53:13
Chris Prime
it's It's him to make the impossible choice.
00:53:16
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:53:17
Chris Prime
And it's the like, either one is going to be bad, but which one is the morally right? And throughout the whole movie, it's been leading up to hinting that where, you know,
00:53:24
Zach Sheets
just
00:53:30
Chris Prime
Frank wants to be the one punished. He doesn't get the punish. Now he has to suffer making like another choice, which is protect the family. But Micro like is a good guy in his nature. So he's just like, hey, like I get it.
00:53:44
Chris Prime
It's a kid.
00:53:44
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:53:45
Chris Prime
I'm the obvious choice.
00:53:47
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
00:53:49
Zach Sheets
But then Frank doesn't do it. like He doesn't do either. shoots Liam and Jim in the head. And then Jigsaw shoots Micro. And then we get the you know the big the big like Jigsaw versus but like Frank final battle. Which is kind of one-sided. Because jig Jigsaw doesn't seem like he has a lot of like fighting prowess.
00:54:11
Zach Sheets
like he's Like, if he doesn't have a gun, like he's kind of useless.
00:54:15
Chris Prime
Yeah, like it's it is not a. A thing where like he's trained, he's not military trained, he's just mob guy.
00:54:21
Zach Sheets
<unk> like It's
00:54:27
Zach Sheets
Yeah. Maybe he boxed some... like He might have like boxed or something. maybe A gym or something, maybe. He was he is he's way too concerned about his looks, as we saw in the opening, like now because he was like, he was Billy the Butte Rosati, so he was more concerned about, like, clothing and hygiene than going the gym or, like, train doing any sort of like, fight training.
00:54:49
Chris Prime
Rod.
00:54:51
Zach Sheets
Yeah, and Frank just, like, absolutely decimates him. He's, like, slamming on the stairs, like, doing, like, out of the stairs like like doing like dropping elbows on him, slamming, like just throwing him around, and eventually skewers him with like some sort of metal spike, a rod, and throws him on the fire pit, and you like he burns alive.
00:55:06
Chris Prime
rod
00:55:12
Chris Prime
I like that he says this is a preview of things to come, implying that he's going to burn in hell.
00:55:17
Zach Sheets
Burn in hell, yeah.
00:55:19
Chris Prime
Oh, speaking about religious things, when I go back real quick, where Frank goes to church and has that just like deep meaning about how he's angry at God. Great, great line.
00:55:31
Zach Sheets
Yeah, I don't... You probably know, like, was that part of, like, the comics? Was, like, does Frank had, like, a like a religious background at all, or...
00:55:38
Chris Prime
Yeah, he he has, like, the traditional, like, Italian, like, Roman Catholic.
00:55:43
Zach Sheets
Like, Catholic? Like, yeah.
00:55:44
Chris Prime
Yeah, and so, like, he has that guilt in him, because in that version of the Punisher, it's a slick back hair. He has, like, more of an Italian, like, background.
00:55:54
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
00:55:55
Chris Prime
And one of them is just, like, that's why he clashes with Daredevil, because Daredevil's religious is more Protestant, Catholic, and then, like,
00:56:06
Chris Prime
I guess Roman Catholic, I don't know what the subsects are, like, one difference, but their ideologies of, like, punishment and then forgiveness and then, you know, like, the frank that Frank is like, I'm, like, cast out. Like, i i deserve to deliver punishment because I've been punished.
00:56:23
Zach Sheets
o
00:56:23
Chris Prime
That's his thing.
00:56:24
Chris Prime
Where Daredevil is like, Everyone can be saved. Like, no one's God. i can, like, you're not supposed to do this. That Irish guilt of, like, all old Catholic Catholicism beliefs.
00:56:33
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:56:38
Chris Prime
So, or or I think, like, maybe Frank's more of a Christian. I forget, like, the nuances, but... Either way, i don't want to get too religious because I'm just speaking out my butt for that one. I just know that basically in in the like comic, they always clash about like who is morally right about that.
00:56:57
Chris Prime
And then Frank always has, at least in a few of those arcs, especially in the early where where Like, I think in the ninety s Frank didn't really care. was just like, I'm mad.
00:57:10
Chris Prime
You know, like, that's his whole thing. Then a lot of the writing writers added a little religious twist to add to the whole, like, hey, like, isn't your guilt weighing you down?
00:57:20
Chris Prime
And his always justification is that, like, I can't wait to shoot God in the face for this. Like...
00:57:27
Zach Sheets
He's had that line and in that scene, where that was I think it was in every trailer, it's just like, sometimes want to get my hands on God.
00:57:35
Chris Prime
It's cool line. It's tough. It's definitely like what a man that's been doing this like one-man war for years would say. So that...
00:57:43
Zach Sheets
it's it's It's also like, i was just like the setting is like this like really comic book-y, stylized, like, Neon Churchill post.
00:57:50
Chris Prime
it's like the John Wick church.
00:57:51
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:57:51
Chris Prime
like Whatever church this is, it's like...
00:57:52
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
00:57:54
Chris Prime
Is this a church all the time? like what Is this a nightclub sometimes? What's going on with this budget?
00:57:59
Zach Sheets
It's like, well, like the like his like, his like father, like the priest friend comes over is like, Frank, you have to leave in like 20 minutes, but this turns into a nightclub.
00:58:10
Chris Prime
It's like, this is a rough neighborhood. We gotta, like, rent out the church for other things. Or he's like, hey, Frank, you gotta stop coming here thinking this is a real church. This is, like, a fake church.
00:58:20
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
00:58:20
Chris Prime
This is actually, like, a breakfast place.
00:58:22
Zach Sheets
o It's like, it's a taco, its taco stand.
00:58:26
Chris Prime
Yeah, it says there's a religious taco stand. Oh, so... i think what happens... I'm thinking... Was... the writer who really made the Punisher more like edgy and gave him the slick back hair, i think it was the guy that made the boys. He, he did a run on the Punisher too.
00:58:50
Zach Sheets
Well, I think, oh yeah, think like, Garth Ennis, like, was, like, kicked off, like, the Max, like, that was, like, his, like, big main book.
00:59:00
Chris Prime
So I say that because right after the boys, right before the boys, he did preacher. So that was like a whole thing of religion where he, the character of the preacher was sort of like, the what if the Punisher, but this later on in the Punisher comics, there was a villain that basically was the preacher, but now like, instead of like the power to do all this with like cosmic God, like commands, it's a dude that killed while wearing a preacher outfit.
00:59:33
Zach Sheets
Mm-hmm.
00:59:33
Chris Prime
And so Punisher killed that guy, which, again, it's just like this fun nod to like a an arc. And that's where like the Punisher sort of like, hey, like i'm I'm I can like killing is like where the religion gets kind of the rules get bendy. So if that happened, then like then so be it. Like, you know i mean? Like then I'll get judged later for this.
01:00:00
Chris Prime
Like, it makes him a complicated character just because, like, there's so much, like, things going on. And this movie just does not have time to go through that. It's cool set pieces, but it's just like, nope.
01:00:11
Chris Prime
In fact, you hang out with Frank long enough, you start rooting for him to kill the mob and stuff, right? Even the FBI agent who had a cocaine addiction problem. Like, he's just sort of like, on board with this.
01:00:23
Zach Sheets
Frank like cold-clocked with a gun to like knock him out so he wouldn't go into the building.
01:00:29
Chris Prime
like, You know, that's not a guaranteed method. Maybe later on he just gets up and like goes in later anyway.
01:00:37
Chris Prime
But then again, the FBI agent is not the Punisher, so don't think you can clear the whole building with just your handgun.
01:00:37
Zach Sheets
but yeah, that's...
01:00:45
Chris Prime
The Punisher had like all this arsenal of weaponry.
01:00:45
Zach Sheets
No. Yeah, he was... Frank rolls with like at least five or six guns strapped to
01:00:55
Zach Sheets
yeah But yeah, at the end he's just like, you what? You're right. Castle, you're right. You did things your way and it worked out. So, good job.
01:01:03
Chris Prime
no But I'm also thinking that man is now has like a head injury. So he's just like, Frank, you did it. So cool. like you know
01:01:10
Zach Sheets
Yep.
01:01:11
Chris Prime
That man was had a concussion an hour ago.
01:01:16
Zach Sheets
And then the really awesome like final scene where Frank gets over walking away and then Frank like disappears. And then Soap is getting held up by like a random mugger. And then we get the the awesome neon sign the background like fizzles out and then like the color kind of fades out and you all you see is like Frank's like skull.
01:01:38
Zach Sheets
It's like the white skull. And then it's like gunshot. Soap's like, oh, got brains all over me.
01:01:45
Chris Prime
Yeah, it's like it ends on a comedic line. It's like as serious as the beginning of the movie is, and it it just ends with like another joke. So that's why i appreciate this movie is just for being like it's having fun.
01:01:58
Chris Prime
You don't need to look too deep. There are certain things that you can sort of look further in and and I don't know, question your beliefs.
01:02:10
Chris Prime
Yeah. morals, but yeah, the Punisher is just like, what if this man went on a rampage that was somewhat justified in his mind?
01:02:13
Zach Sheets
Well, there's...
01:02:18
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
01:02:19
Chris Prime
It's great.
01:02:20
Zach Sheets
there there was There was more of like, you know, Frank kind of like... yeah like you dealing with like Julie Benz and the daughter, kind like like like remembering his family, and then like dealing with the death of the FBI agent. There was more of that than i remembered. cause like I remember that it was just being like, oh, Ray Stevenson is just an emotional killing machine. It's just as is going through... like like Just absolutely like killing it everywhere.
01:02:48
Zach Sheets
barely talks. It's just like goes through this is like... Yeah, like... Stabbing people's necks and you know shooting people... But yeah, there were they do get to like a little bit a little bit of like the Punisher psychology a little bit more than I remember.
01:03:03
Chris Prime
Yeah, but that's the thing where
01:03:04
Zach Sheets
definite mean Definitely nowhere close to like you know the Jon Bernthal or like the Tom Jane Punisher's.
01:03:11
Chris Prime
Agreed. If there was a whole section where Punisher really just someone sits with him, and asks him why Frank, and then he like explains his origin. I think that's where it takes a slow down, which happens a lot, like sometimes in the other Punisher material or like there's a whole thing where Frank just can't move on from the fact.
01:03:34
Chris Prime
It's like, oh no, I got to sit here and just bask in this moment again just because of What's happening, but it makes sense in the TV show because he's finding out who was like responsible. He's like hunting down everything in here in this movie.
01:03:45
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
01:03:46
Chris Prime
Like he knew everything. Like it seems like everyone that got his family killed is dead. And now he's just like keep it keeps going.
01:03:52
Zach Sheets
Yeah. He's so far into like his mission.
01:03:54
Chris Prime
Yeah, and it's like he really brought justice to his family, but it's like I got to keep going. Like, I don't know. There's no other life but this.
01:04:03
Zach Sheets
is
01:04:05
Zach Sheets
Yeah, and like Julia Bens isn't like a love interest. Like it's not be like I'm going to quit being a Punisher and be a my dad to this family. It's just like.
01:04:11
Chris Prime
yeah It hints at that a little bit with the the the daughter that's like, hey, you're my new dad now.
01:04:19
Zach Sheets
just like, like instantly is like, i trust you, strange man who showed up at my house with a tactical flashlight.
01:04:27
Chris Prime
It's kind of weird.
01:04:29
Zach Sheets
And like a weird bag.
01:04:29
Chris Prime
The daughter's just like, okay.
01:04:31
Chris Prime
Well, the bag of money.
01:04:33
Zach Sheets
And then like when they like, like he drags me into like the the subway station like lair and he's just like, oh, look at your fun box of of but mementos.
01:04:43
Zach Sheets
Like your cool snow globe. Yeah.
01:04:46
Chris Prime
Oh, she like tries to break in there.
01:04:46
Zach Sheets
Nosey. yeah
01:04:48
Chris Prime
i I don't understand that little girl. She's like, I get that she's curious because she's like, he's like, oh, you're clever. It's like, she's kind of like nosy.
01:04:56
Zach Sheets
nosey
01:04:57
Chris Prime
Yeah, like that's not, don't encourage that.
01:05:02
Zach Sheets
I do like, like, yeah, Frank's lair is just like, he's got like, yeah, his chest full of memories and he's like, I don't know you mentioned like he has like a brooding chair. Like he just has like like an arm, like a big like armchair and he just sits in him.
01:05:11
Chris Prime
Yeah, that's the Batman shot where he sits in it. It's a perfect lighting so you don't see his face.
01:05:15
Zach Sheets
Like a throne. Yeah.
01:05:18
Chris Prime
I saw that and I was like, oh, come on.
01:05:21
Zach Sheets
It's not, mean it's not even facing, it's like, there's no TV or like a radio or like, it's not even near anything. It's just like, just, I sit here and think. I sit here ponder my mission.
01:05:31
Zach Sheets
I think of my family dying.
01:05:35
Chris Prime
But it's not overused. I actually, like, real quick though, when they go back and explain the Punisher's origin, it's really like one flashback and then it's just a slideshow later on by Soap.
01:05:37
Zach Sheets
it
01:05:47
Zach Sheets
yeah it makes sense, the flashback, because he's you know he's at the cemetery, he's like secretly watching the FBI agent's funeral, but then he goes to his family's grave and he's like trying to clean it off and he's like have the flashing back to that.
01:05:59
Zach Sheets
So it makes it makes sense.
01:06:02
Zach Sheets
I will say, the so the only, like the other super weird thing about this movie is that Ray Stevenson is like the only Punisher to appear on the superhero squad show.
01:06:14
Zach Sheets
Like the extremely like child friendly, like little kids show.
01:06:20
Chris Prime
Yeah, I mean... guess he just liked being the Punisher.
01:06:25
Zach Sheets
Well, it's it's it's it's just crazy. like So, like, the fact that the Punisher showed up at all in that show, and also that it was Ray Stevenson who's like probably like one of the most brutal Punishers on film. And now he's, like, on a kid's show.
01:06:40
Chris Prime
That's having me feel like the adults in the room that's watching that show.
01:06:43
Zach Sheets
Yeah. All, like, all the all the dozen the fans that went to see the Punisher Warzone when it in theaters.
01:06:51
Zach Sheets
Because that was the
01:06:51
Chris Prime
I heard like, yeah like the marketing did not make sense because I thought like marketing made something that coming straight to theater, like to DVD or something.
01:06:58
Chris Prime
That's like, oh, in theaters now, what?
01:07:01
Zach Sheets
well it was like it's December which is like a weird a weird time to like release like this like violent Marvel movie and also it was like you had Iron Man the Dark Knight and Incredible Hulk up before this and it's like oh here's like the fourth superhero movie they came out this year
01:07:15
Chris Prime
Oh, my God.
01:07:22
Zach Sheets
it's like wildly different tone and now i likere we've we've definitely shifted away like to to a new era of superhero movies but this year.
01:07:37
Zach Sheets
Because
01:07:40
Chris Prime
I can't name like too many bands that's in this movie.
01:07:40
Zach Sheets
the soundtrack...
01:07:43
Zach Sheets
Well, guess I guess Rob Zombie wrote an original song for it called called warz zone
01:07:50
Zach Sheets
they Apparently, they had they had a contest. I was reading on Wikipedia. They held an online contest but like to like like have a band featured on the and the the soundtrack, and some band from like Indiana won seven days away.
01:08:01
Zach Sheets
so they got they got to the appear on the soundtrack.
01:08:05
Chris Prime
Interesting.
01:08:06
Zach Sheets
But it's yeah, it's it's like it's like exactly what you expect from like a mid-2000s. It's like new metal, heavy metal, rock soundtrack. Yeah.
01:08:18
Chris Prime
Yeah, it sounds like, hey, was this something out of like a like a Van Warped Tour like set?
01:08:24
Zach Sheets
Yes.
01:08:26
Chris Prime
Let's just invite them to play in a Marvel movie.
01:08:31
Chris Prime
But, like, I think this movie aged okay. Like, it... Like I said early, it's not supposed to be a deep Marvel movie, unlike other movies which try to have, like, a message.
01:08:42
Chris Prime
This is just, like, watch silly action, have, like, like the what you think, like, an older Punisher be realized. Because Ray Stevenson is, like, a great middle-aged Punisher.
01:08:55
Zach Sheets
ze
01:08:56
Chris Prime
Someone that's definitely got the skill, the look, the, like, the like attitude towards what he's doing.
01:09:05
Zach Sheets
yeah it's definitely like you said you definitely you can appreciate this now on the same level as Crank where it's like if you want an awesome over the top super violent crazy action movie There just happens to be like also like feature like a Marvel character.
01:09:22
Zach Sheets
i mean, i would say i would say I think I think John Bernthal is probably the best Punisher of like the four that we've had.
01:09:29
Chris Prime
he's He's the best balanced.
01:09:31
Zach Sheets
Yeah.
01:09:32
Chris Prime
Like, Ray Stevenson's the best-looking fighting one where he doesn't yell. Like, he just... Like, that's it. And then... i think...
01:09:45
Chris Prime
Bernathal does a really good Punisher that's just, like, rage. Like, all emotion, screaming, like, looks great injured.
01:09:50
Zach Sheets
He's, yeah. He's, yeah, John Burtill has, like, the emotional depth, but it also will, like, you know, going up, like, i have, like, some of the bloodiest funnier action sequences on film.
01:10:03
Zach Sheets
And then, yeah, and Tom J and Dolph Liger are kind of just like a next year down. Because dolf Dolph is just Dolph. It could could have been any character. didn't have to be the Punisher.
01:10:15
Chris Prime
could have been the same character from like... Showdown at Tokyo.
01:10:19
Zach Sheets
Yeah, huh?
01:10:22
Zach Sheets
But yeah, if if you if you if you're looking for some some more some other Punisher stuff to check out so along with the you know the but two two things we're getting this year, definitely go back and check it out again.
01:10:34
Zach Sheets
And yeah, so that'll do it for this week. come right Next week, it's a big one. We're celebrating the 40th anniversary of Top Gun. came out in May 1986. we're going to head into the Danger Zone to talk about everything Top Gun.
01:10:49
Zach Sheets
And head up site we all over to the site. We got news for you, trailers. Yeah, all the other stuff that's up there. Head over and check all this stuff out. And yeah, so for Chris, I'm Zach, and we will see you next week.