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Goodpain Season 02 Episode 21: End of Season Wrap & Preview of Season 03
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In this episode, we take a final sprint around the track that is Season 2. Jeremy and Tyler share their brief reflections on the topic of Mature & Immature Masculinity, how it served the candid conversation for the last four months, and how it surprised them in their own personal growth. With two seasons – two dots of data – Goodpain now has a trend line, and the co-hosts consider how Goodpain is developing a clearer perspective on its role, with each season represented a "genre" of the human condition, a perspective on dancing with life challenges.
The episode concludes with a trailer for Season 3, which will be released in late-July/early-August and is titled The Artful Life: A season About Making
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Transcript
Introduction to GoodPing Podcast
00:00:01
Speaker
I'm Jeremy. And I'm Tyler. Welcome to GoodPing. I suffered from that a little bit, but at the same time, think it was probably fresher because I didn't just regurgitate stats or opinions that other people had. So it created an opportunity for us to really kind of find our way through this. And I think that some of the more valuable conversations that we had were in reflection of So you would start us off on a path and like, oh yeah, what about this?
00:00:27
Speaker
And that took us somewhere else. and um so yeah, i I think that was successful that way.
Reflection on Season Two
00:00:43
Speaker
And with that, we're at the end of season two. It's a season that we started out defining. we were going to be discussing immature and mature masculinity. And before we knew it, we were talking about much broader topics that were still relevant to where we started, but were much more applicable to all of us.
00:01:00
Speaker
And that's exactly what we want to do here at Good Pain is to dance between the dig sites that we talked about where we're excavating these conversations and using the boundaries to help us call forth.
00:01:13
Speaker
things within us that we didn't know existed prior to the conversation, and then finding that there's much more connecting us than there is that divides us. In this
Preview of Season Three
00:01:23
Speaker
episode, Jeremy and I do a quick post-mortem on the season before we turn almost immediately to talking about season three. We're going to talk briefly about the way we're going to approach season three, and then we're going to close out this episode with the trailer for season three, which will also be loaded on the podcast platform wherever you listen thank you for joining us for season two we will be back towards the end of july early august with season three in the meantime we're going to be filling in with some episodes from other shows that we like as well as some of the short form that we hope will keep you right here engaged with us and ready to jump in to another season of good pain
00:02:08
Speaker
How did you feel this season went? I'm reflecting on a couple of things where kind of the wayfinding and excavation, yeah there was a lot of that in our conversations as well. Agreed. Yeah.
00:02:19
Speaker
I think i was I was overwhelmed about the subject matter a bit. So
Jeremy's Reliance on Tyler's Guidance
00:02:25
Speaker
I think this is a big chunk. I was relying a lot on... i had a lot of confidence of you of keeping us on pace and on track. So um it was... And I don't know how to address that. I think you're...
00:02:37
Speaker
the language that you put to it that you shared with me at the outset was helpful, but I haven't done near the research that you have on any of this. And so I think that I suffered from that a little bit, but at the same time, think I think was probably fresher because I didn't just regurgitate stats or opinions that other people had. So it created an opportunity for us to really kind of find our way through this. And I think that some of the more valuable conversations that we had were in reflection of So you would start us off on a path and oh yeah, what about this?
00:03:09
Speaker
And that took us somewhere else. And um so, yeah, i I think that was successful that way. Yeah. what What's your feedback on that? If you
Shift in Focus: Masculinity Discussion
00:03:16
Speaker
have any. No, I do. I've, I had mixed feelings going into this season. Yeah. Tell me.
00:03:22
Speaker
The way the season itself presented and kind of came, i the original plan in terms of taking season one and moving into, i mean, what what felt like a more natural next we're going to talk. And the original plan was to talk about caregiving specifically and explore that. And there were some some significant reasons attached to that, some timely reasons that were attached to that were continue to be fairly timely, but not as urgent.
00:03:52
Speaker
And the way that this topic of masculinity came about, uh, just built confidence. Like this is, this is where we are are are, supposed to dig. Yeah. But it was almost as if like saying the word masculinity,
00:04:06
Speaker
immediately brought up like, oh, that doesn't feel like the right. And we I think we narrowed it down to well, we're talking about mature and immature masculinity and we're avoiding using certain hackneyed terms like toxic masculinity. Sure.
00:04:22
Speaker
Because it doesn't serve the purpose. It doesn't fit with the the the brand, the vibe that we're trying to to drive here. And I,
Defining Masculinity: A Mature Perspective
00:04:30
Speaker
and looking back on it, one of the things that I do appreciate is my reticence to, with the conceit of even defining masculinity as if it's something that can be defined.
00:04:46
Speaker
Narrowly. Yeah, sure. i I feel that we were routinely, and we talk about this through some of the episodes, anchoring to, and I think even in the last episode, we specifically called it out, the episode with Soren and Sam.
00:05:00
Speaker
Specifically mentioned, like, this conceit was a conceit that got us started. Yeah. Got us pointed. But it it does fall apart. Yeah. and in And for me, that's a little bit of what I do. And I'll continue to reflect on this, but that is something that I do actually appreciate about the nature of the season, almost as like meta view of the season itself, which is trying to to have a conversation around masculinity. And then it just... it almost like falls apart into talking about broader things and what the impact is and what the, what the notion of this interaction with what it means to walk the world as an identified male and bump into other people that are not identified male or not you know, and, and that I, I even think that there is a significant richness in that, which points to, for me,
00:05:57
Speaker
Okay.
Podcast as Art: Using Genre as Metaphor
00:06:01
Speaker
as we reach for more maturity is is that holding definitions more loosely is a mark of maturity itself okay so Defining the this season at you know in this way that gave us some shape and structure and form and stability to move in a given direction, it served that purpose. And if we if I had, if you had, if other people had really anchored to trying to hold, well, well that's outside the bounds. We don't talk about that. yeah I actually think that starts to reflect the inherent dangers life.
00:06:35
Speaker
what we see in the general conversation around what it means to be a man or a boy or to be masculine yeah is is that that's false. There's just this false structure and stability that actually props up this fragility With actually just joining into the and having the conversation around this and the looseness and holding things more loosely that I don't need things to be defined so clearly. Well, I think it it just narrows the conversation too much if we start to get really rigid with language and definition. I think that's the antithesis of what the the goal of this whole season was, but possibly this podcast. so
00:07:18
Speaker
And also we're not smart enough to have all the answers to these type of questions. So um other people have tried, but that's not what're proposing to do, I don't believe.
00:07:29
Speaker
So one piece critically, this is in the form of a question is to define a season focused on a thing. So masculinity here That's either going to pull people in because of that or have the opposite effect.
00:07:42
Speaker
And then once they get into listening to the the episodes, assuming that they will, i think there's more engagement to be had for broader context of of people that might be interested. But I think the gatekeeping is in the title of that season. And so I just, I don't know where that leads us. I think art is going to be broad and wide open. I think everybody's going to want to listen it.
00:08:05
Speaker
Uh, and that might bring them back into, you if that's their entry point into seasons one or two, that'd be great. But, um, I, I would just be mindful of how that is going to be presented.
00:08:17
Speaker
The area that I've been doing thinking some, some additional thinking about, um, both in kind of my, my clinical practice, as well as in some of the other things that I'm doing is the nature of a genre. What, what, what is, what is genre? Yeah. And in, and what i am starting to, to feel comfortable as a metaphor with good pain and, and the seasons themselves is as genres. uh
Exploring Human Conditions Through Genre
00:08:43
Speaker
yeah and and that when we talk about genre uh we need people to be able to anchor to like you said is is that by defining this dig site this genre of masculinity right it gives people the ability to sink their teeth into something but once they're in there yeah the beats the the arcs that we're going to just right other voices too yeah they explore
00:09:08
Speaker
The very similar topics and and the example I'll use is is is genre through the lens of the human condition and in in art itself.
00:09:20
Speaker
Oftentimes we talk about like what kind of ah movies do you like? Well, I like comedies. I like horror. And we we pretend that those are different. Yeah. I see where you're going. yeah But at the core, the genre of comedy is is evaluating the human condition of moving through this world through this lens of absurdity, through the lens of comedy and laughing and the lightness of it. And shock is a tool that's used universally in both. That's right. and and and so, but approaching the question of what does it mean to be alive has this element of there is comedy associated with it.
00:09:56
Speaker
Going through the lens of horror is evaluating it and predominantly looking at experience through the the lens of terror, of what is horrifying, of fear, which is also a part of the human condition. both ah Art is exploring the nature of the human condition, but the direction that we come at it from is going to be different, and some of it's going to resonate differently with with some people.
00:10:22
Speaker
than others and it's the nature of language and and why some of us gravitate towards comedy and some of us gravitate towards horror and some of us say you know put up hands to say like i i cannot watch horror or others be like it's so stupid i can't yeah i mean i i have family members like you know when when we say you know dumb and dumber is one of our favorite movies people are like i don't know how you sit through that you were so people you did right But it reflects, the genres reflect the nature of the fact that we're evaluating things from different perspectives. And when I think about Good Pain and I look at, now we've got two seasons and and and we're able to see that season one was this evaluation through the lens of tragedy.
00:11:10
Speaker
Yeah. Of loss, of grief. And there's a lot to be to be plumbed there. And for some portion of the audience, that being the entry point is where they need to be right now.
00:11:23
Speaker
this one is a more of a charged topic and and and could be interpreted through some people of kind of either identity politics or gender wars whatever those and we we really tried to do it justice of saying there is this construct within us we do tend to defa divide based on certain labels We use genres as a means for pointing at the same thing, but also for excluding and and drawing division. and And even though we didn't explicitly talk about everything I just described, there is something about the genre of this season that
00:12:04
Speaker
creating a different entry point for people into evaluating what does it mean for us to be human? What does it mean for us to walk alongside each other? That this is a part of that. This is a part of the conversation, which leads us to, well, the next one. And like you said, is there's something about art itself that invites us into an evaluation of what it means to be human.
00:12:28
Speaker
and And so each of these seasons as a ah genre of the human condition, I feel like starts to make good pain in what we're doing here come alive a little bit more that says that that there is a variety of experience. And and i think we're we're trying this, what we feel I think is this audacious aim is to explore all of it.
00:12:55
Speaker
it's It's unfortunate because um after studying art in college and in grad school, those types of conversations taper off pretty dramatically, very fast. and um And so, yeah, this is going to be a great way to get back into those conversations, which I think were heady and also important.
00:13:12
Speaker
We
Season Three's Focus on Creative Expression
00:13:13
Speaker
are all makers, and we always have been makers. Many of us have forgotten that. I'm Jeremy. And I'm Tyler. Welcome to GoodPing. When I engage creatively, all my creative juices just get shook up, you know, and they all kind of start to bloom.
00:13:30
Speaker
Season 3 of Good Pain is about remembering the shared need to express the courage it takes to bring something inside us out into the open and what it reveals about our human condition when we try, when we fail, when we're successful, and everything in between. It is a season about what art, creative expression, and making tell us about who we are and how we live. Good Pain is a show about what it means to be human. to be us, explored through shared stories.
00:13:59
Speaker
In season one, we followed one family, my family, through loss, grief, and healing. And then in season two, we asked what it looks like when a man becomes a more mature version of himself. And in season three, we are going to continue sharing stories, exploring why we reach for expression.
00:14:15
Speaker
Jeremy and I will continue our conversations. And like season two, we will host conversations with guests from music, cinema, food craft, woodworking, and forms of making that don't even fit into a category. This season is for the person who makes and for the person who forgot they could. Because making is not a separate life.
00:14:35
Speaker
It is life. So join us every Thursday morning for a new conversation beginning mid-July on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and wherever podcasts live.