Transcript
Killer Kyle: Welcome, welcome, welcome to Triple Take Cinema. I am your co -host, Kyle. I'm here with Alex. I'm here with Dustin. We're talking time travel movies. And and yeah, this is ah is exciting. we we're We're getting on into it. How's ah how's everyone doing? Everyone back from from their various time travelings?
Dustin Zick: Yes, I'm back from the past.
Alex: Absolutely, I'll be traveling back in time to remember some of these movies, but I'm very excited.
Dustin Zick: That's a good point. Me too.
Killer Kyle: Yes, yes is definitely yeah had yeah we know yeah this is the nature of things. We're really testing our mettle here.
Dustin Zick: Yeah, we watched them all back to back to back right before we record.
Killer Kyle: yeah so
Dustin Zick: No, we didn't do that.
Killer Kyle: Yeah, yeah, with marathons, stray marathons, raw, coming to you live. Yeah, so we did, you know, I don't want to say we did low budget time travel movies intentionally, but two of these movies have hilariously low budgets.
Dustin Zick: Yes.
Killer Kyle: And one has what I would call a very low budget for films, but, you know, it dwarfs you of the two. So let's get right into it. Well, in chronological order, the movies that we watched are Primer by Shane Caruth.
Killer Kyle: And I'll just note that that movie cost $7 ,000 to make. And then coming up next is Time Crimes 2007, directed by Nacho Vigalando, which costs $2 .6 million, dollars a giant amount of money in this in this episode in terms of making a movie. And and then we watched 2012's Safety Not Guaranteed, directed by Derek Connelly, which came in at a tidy $750 ,000 for its budget. And I'm pretty sure $740 ,000 of that was spent
Killer Kyle: the last scene.
Dustin Zick: Actually, I think safety not guaranteed was Colin Trevorrow, wasn't it?
Killer Kyle: Colin Trevella, not Derek Connelly.
Dustin Zick: Yeah. Yeah. Written by Derek Colony.
Killer Kyle: I just looked that up. Oh, she can't trust the internet kids.
Dustin Zick: sir Yeah. Directed by Colin Trevorrow, who's also known for Jurassic World.
Killer Kyle: Directed by Colin Trevella.
Killer Kyle: Oh, or not known for.
Dustin Zick: Yeah, fair.
Killer Kyle: Yeah, well,
Dustin Zick: You know, the best Jurassic Park movie, Jurassic World, and the sequels, Jurassic Worlds.
Killer Kyle: obviously Obviously, that's what I always go to.
Alex: and ma they're making the fourth one so someone likes them
Dustin Zick: Yeah, yeah.
Killer Kyle: yeah so Someone who likes making money loves them.
Dustin Zick: Yes.
Killer Kyle: yeah so but yeah let's I'll start with my my experience with these movies. I had never seen Time Crimes. and so That was one that was suggested by you, I believe, Justin.
Dustin Zick: Mm hmm.
Killer Kyle: And that, yeah, so I'd never seen that, so that was a nice blind spot for me. I had seen Safety Not Guaranteed a while ago, closer to that 2012 date of debut. And then Primer, I watched in college. So that is a long time ago. And so this was, Primer may as well have been brand new to me, but but but some things did come back. So where where were you at on your blind spots and and boxes checked, Dustin?
Dustin Zick: I had seen Primer also, I feel like in college. Primer was 2004. I feel like it was you know sometime within three or four years of when that came out. Right when you know I was getting on the internet, and I think I probably heard about it somewhere on the internet, and it's like this cool time travel movie that was really like thick in the
Killer Kyle: a
Dustin Zick: the logistics of it kind of a thing. Time crimes, I had seen, I must have rented it in the later years of college or right out of college, but I don't remember what compelled me to. I just remember when I had rented it, I was like, oh, this is actually like pretty fun for what it was. and like I appreciated the simplicity of the story and the execution of it.
Dustin Zick: then safety got not guaranteed I was familiar with and it had kind of it was it wasn't like on a oh I need to watch this list, but it was one that was like Oh, yeah, like if the opportunity kind of presents itself like I'll watch this if I stumble across it and I never really had stumbled across it I never watched it and then you assigned it for this episode and I was like, all right I guess I'll watch it now.
Dustin Zick: And so I did how about you Alex?
Killer Kyle: yeah i mean I guess I'm either quitting the podcast or watching this movie.
Dustin Zick: Oh
Dustin Zick: yeah
Alex: Yeah, so we'll get into that for me as well. But I had not seen all three of these. These were all blind spots for me. Primer, I was very aware of. I think when I was first getting into film more deliberately in college, was watching some early Christopher Nolan, and I read some articles that were like, oh, if you like Memento, you would like Primer, things like that. So I was aware of its existence and of the convoluted nature of its plot for, you know,
Alex: at least a couple decades now, but safety net guaranteed. I was also aware of kind of on the fringes of, I remember seeing the trailer at the time and being intrigued by the hook and thinking, oh, that's a pretty good premise for a movie.
Alex: didn't really do any digging beyond that. And Time Crimes was a total blind spot to me, both in terms of being aware of it or having seen it. It was not a blip on my radar, but I'm so glad that you suggested it and that you ah picked it, Kyle, because I i said but thought that movie was great. I'm also glad that you brought up budgets in talking about these movies. Usually not something that is relevant to just how I view a film or think about film, but When you think about time travel movies, they can be some of the most expensive movies ever made, whether that's Terminator 2, whether that's Back to the Future, Avengers Endgame, one of the most expensive and the highest gross movie of all time is very heavily a time travel movie.
Dustin Zick: Bye.
Alex: So I thought it was interesting that we had three different takes on time travel that showed how you could approach it from a low budget perspective and I guess more of our conversation, how you can approach it, you know, grasping at some degree of realism and, you know, trying to work out those nuances without flashy special effects. But my question to you, Kyle, was, you know, was that something that you were thinking about when you picked this or was it just kind of a happy little accident?
Killer Kyle: No, you know it wasn't. Well, I didn't i guess I didn't... ah ah Time crimes, says ah as a I guess, has the biggest budget of all these, but i I did not know anything about it. So I really couldn't tell you one way or the other. It was just something that sounded interesting. It was a blind spot for me. I knew primer was hilariously low budget, all things considered. And I had never even thought about it for safety, not guaranteed. Though you know when you watch it and you think about that, you know watching primer kind of kind of makes makes you think about that because it is so bare bones and so technical.
Dustin Zick: so Yeah,
Alex: Right.
Killer Kyle: and so and And Time Crimes honestly felt very similar.
Dustin Zick: yeah
Killer Kyle: So i'm I'm actually surprised that it took $2 .6 million dollars to make that movie.
Dustin Zick: yeah.
Killer Kyle: And I mean, and yeah, so it it wasn't something that I was thinking about, but it it is something that as I watch Primer, because I watched this Primer Time Crimes Safety Night Guarantee, which is I think how we should we should talk about it.
Killer Kyle: it was just It's kind of hard to not think about when you see, especially when some of the movies you just mentioned, Alex, right? like There's a lot of bombastic visuals around time machines.
Killer Kyle: And I really appreciated in both Primer and Time Crimes, the extremely simple nature of the time travel
Dustin Zick: Yeah.
Killer Kyle: and in in in And in some ways, safety not guaranteed as well, though it's not really a part of the movie until Until the very end. So yeah, that's just something that I'd like that I like when the time travel part of it is very Simple and honestly like I'll throw another one out there Looper right like looper just gets into some some golden wiry metal box essentially and poof right and so and and and the more complicated and crazy it gets the less and I don't know.
Dustin Zick: Mmm.
Killer Kyle: I'm not like tuned out tuned off or turned turned off by it, but I'm just drawn in by like, oh, that's the time machine, like a flower pot. you know like that's I like that kind of thing.
Dustin Zick: Yeah, well, that's what's I think that's part of what's so interesting about Primer is that like the the display of the the time travel process is exceptionally low budget.
Killer Kyle: so
Alex: So
Dustin Zick: I mean, it's no budget, basically, like they don't really show any of it, really. But the the logistics, the mechanics of time travel and how it influences the story are so thickly woven throughout the story that Primer is trying to tell. I feel like, like I said, I think I'd only seen it once prior, but I feel like it's it's something I've read about and heard about in the lexicon of
Dustin Zick: of films in the last 15 20 years as like one of the most notoriously complex movies and like you'll you'll stumble on reddit occasionally across like a ah ah graphic somebody made showing All the layers of time travel that are happening and like I remember seeing that stumble across it and being like, oh, yeah I remember this movie it was really intense and not that it's not intense and that it's not kind Complicated and whatnot.
Alex: Sorry.
Alex: Sorry.
Dustin Zick: But like for me once I like fully rewatching it, like kind of process, like the core caveat of how time travel works in this movie. Not to say that it's different from other movies, but it's pretty different from like the standard shit where we think of like Back to the Future Terminator, where you're physically just re -manifesting instantaneously back to this time 10 years ago or six hours ago. And the fact that in Primer, like the, I think what like,
Dustin Zick: is a good causality for so much of the interesting part of the story as it relates to the time travel, is the fact that to travel back in time, you need to spend that amount of time going backwards.
Dustin Zick: right like so it's not like If I wanted to travel back 24 hours, it's not just like, oh, I'm instantly 24 hours ago when I go through the time machine.
Alex: Right.
Dustin Zick: ands No, I need to seriously like go into the time machine and wait 24 hours to go back 24 hours. Uh, which isn't something I mean i'm sure there's another time travel movie out there that that has or at least a ah ah You know a short story or something that has that mechanic in there But it's not ever been like, uh a core component of the plot device, right? Which I feel like happens here in primer and once you kind of compute that and think about it it it it helps break it down a little more as to just like why there's so many kind of layers and what makes it so interesting and
Dustin Zick: it's It's kind of, for me, like the double -edged sword of what makes this movie interesting, but also can make it a little bit of hurdle to access. is like The dialogue is so quick and and whatnot. And if you read up on director and star Shane Carruth, like his he he went on the record kind of saying, like oh, he he what he didn't want to dumb it down for anyone.
Dustin Zick: He wanted all the dialogue to be like mathematically accurate to the extent that it could be knowing that time trump travel doesn't exist. But that like the idea was that you would be watching it and feel like you're like watching something real happening, which I feel like kind of came through pretty pretty well for me in the second viewing.
Dustin Zick: Like I I went into it. I'll stop in just a second. But I went into it thinking like, oh, yeah, maybe this isn't going to really hold up.
Killer Kyle: Thank you.
Dustin Zick: It's not going to be it's not going to manifest to that reputation I've built it up to in my head and and maybe not quite to the extent that I built it up to in my head in that like I didn't feel like so intimidated out of the convoluted of the story that I couldn't engage with it. Not that i to say I pro fully understood everything that was happening, but I was compelled enough by what was happening and feel like after watching it 15, 20 years ago, I had enough of an understanding of what was going on that I was able to like
Dustin Zick: actually read between the lines a little more and appreciate kind of the inter -character play that's going on in a way that may be viewing it for the first time. I might have been like, oh, I don't know what's going on because how are they traveling back in time?
Dustin Zick: There's two of them now kind of a thing. That was a lot, but that's I'll leave it there.
Killer Kyle: Yeah. No, you're good. Alex, what what what was your, you know, this was blind for you. So what was what was your experience?
Alex: Yeah, so one thing I kept thinking about while watching this is I brought up Christopher Nolan as being someone who I thought of around Primer. And there's a line in Tenet, which I don't know if you guys have seen ah seen ah one of his more recent movies. And it's one of the characters talking about how time travel causality works in that movie. And he has a line where he's like, you know, don't try to understand it, just feel it. And that was kind of my ammo going to this movie as a viewer was, if I would feel frustrated or left behind by how opaque and convoluted the plot was, I would try and just really lean into the vibes of this movie, which are really, really strong. And I think the low budget and the aesthetics kind of work in its favor, where it gives it this documentary feel
Alex: Like you feel like, to your point, Dustin, you are watching real events unfold. I think the fact that there's really no direct exposition for the viewer's sake, it feels like you're listening in on conversations that are just happening organically. Funnily enough, I think the part that was harder for me to engage with isn't all the time travel stuff that gets really wonky in the third and fourth acts.
Alex: you know the last half hour of the movie, it's really that first 15 minutes where you just to fly on the wall for all these like conversations about making it in the startup world and engineering and physics and there is no attempt to bring the viewer into the fold. It's just all happening and it's up to you to kind of stay abreast of all that.
Alex: I found that kind of tried my patience more than when things got wonky at the end because I had enough of a sense of the character's personality, their motivations for all of that to be compelling, even when I didn't quite understand what was going on. But the beginning 15, 20 minutes were definitely a barrier for me.
Alex: But yeah, i really I dug the vibes of this. I really like the aesthetics, where it feels like you're watching some guys try and create something new in their garage. I think it really leans heavily on kind of the myths that we build up in America around these um these um you know technological gurus that we consider, like the Steve Jobs you know starting starting Apple in his garage. kind of
Alex: collective myth. I think this movie really draws heavily on that. And yeah, I really enjoyed when we dig into the time travel stuff, and you're starting to see the characters unravel before duplicates of them are introduced to the viewer. The viewer is aware that there are duplicates. Because for me, that was what made this movie you know really sing when it did sing, is the dynamics between Abe and Aaron.
Alex: And you get a sense that Abe is super controlling and fastidious and like has to be two steps ahead, while Aaron seems more impulsive, kind of emotion driven.
Killer Kyle: Thank you.
Alex: And the way the movie subverts that when there are duplicates of those characters introduced, just found that drama all really compelling. But I guess you know to your point, Dustin, about this movie being a double -edged sword, I think that's a perfect phrase to describe it because the lengths to which it holds the viewer away from engaging with it, it almost feels hostile to the viewer at times in terms of we're not going to give you any kind of foundation to get a sense of what's happening in that last 30 minutes.
Dustin Zick: Mm.
Alex: Almost keeps me from wanting to watch it again and re -engage where it's almost like I got a lot out of this movie aesthetically, I got a lot out of it in terms of character interplay and
Dustin Zick: Yeah.
Alex: just being a part of this interesting world, I don't know if I feel necessarily compelled to unravel all the minutia of where Eren I and Eren II were at different points in time or how exactly they went back um um at different points in the story.
Alex: like That feels less interesting to me than just existing in this movie's world. so But I really enjoyed it.
Dustin Zick: i think I think what you hit on something interesting about that first 15 minutes and that kind of being a difficult battle for you because having not watched this in so long, think I'm trying to think when I first saw this, I almost feel like my dad and I rented this kind of blind maybe even. I know it that's not what I said earlier, but I feel like I didn't know it was a time travel movie.
Dustin Zick: When we rented it and that almost I think not almost I think it did work would work in its favor Because then you can kind of go down that path in that first 15 minutes without any expectation and kind of stumble into the time travel as their characters did right like it was an ancillary like side effect of whatever the hell they were trying to build and that time travel happened and I feel like rewatching it this time and knowing firmly it was a time travel movie even rewatching it and for you clearly not having watched it before but also knowing it was a time travel movie you're kind of like what the fuck's going on in this first 15 minutes because it's it's so thickly written deliberately so that like
Alex: Right.
Dustin Zick: you're assuming that they're trying to build a time travel machine. because i That's what I was thinking. like I totally forgot that it was like not intentional that they found it. so I was like trying to decipher what was going on in those 15 minutes and with the other two characters that just kind of disappear.
Dustin Zick: until I got to the moment where they like start understanding that they've discovered some form of time travel. so I 100 % agree with what you said. And I feel like when you're saying it, I was kind of processing like, yeah, there was that hurdle for me rewatching it because I was I was almost like skipping ahead of this beginning that I forgot existed and and it left me really kind of off balance and trying to decipher it until I kind of came out of that haze. And I feel like even if you've never seen it, and especially in today's world, it's unlikely that you would watch this without having some context of it.
Alex: Right.
Dustin Zick: that it's going to kind of ruin the beginning of it for you because you're going to be like just thinking you're not understanding what's going on when you're you're not understanding, but you don't really need to. And you don't you lose that joy of like that discovery moment that I feel like now in hindsight, I think I kind of had back when this came out and we rented it at the local video store kind of a thing.
Dustin Zick: But Kyle, I want to hear your thoughts since this was your your baby in terms of picking it for this episode.
Alex: Right.
Killer Kyle: Yeah. Well, first my first thought is the jealousy that I feel of being able to have watched this movie blind without knowing what it's about. is that is that is ah ah That is a tasty meatball. that is like i wish I wish that I'd had that experience. my my this This viewing really This viewing really brought me back to the first viewing I had of this, and the first and only viewing. you know and I saw this at a time when like it was...
Killer Kyle: yeah It was in movies like Memento and those movies that are kind of like more interesting puzzles to figure out. Then I was at a period of time in my life and with a group of people were watching this type of movie, it was all about trying to figure it out.
Killer Kyle: you know That was a lot of what the viewing was about.
Alex: Thank you.
Killer Kyle: It was almost like, oh, have you seen Primer? I have these golden tablets that appeared in a hat that I'd like to show you. You know what I mean? like it was like it had this It had this mythic Characteristic and I think that the low -budget nature, you know, you also were like, oh, is this is gonna age well It's amazing how much Because it's so low budget but it hits on this this this trope in our culture of the garage band the garage tech people when I think the things that happen in garages America All of that all of that played very well for me on this viewing but similar to Alex's kind of
Killer Kyle: kind of experience, I didn't i knew that it it's it is so unapproachable in a lot of moments, in a lot of ways, and intentionally so, that I wasn't trying to just sit there and figure it out like I did before and you know have it have it have it be a part of a social conversation or whatever that I was that was having in 18, 19, 20. And so this was a lot more like, okay, I know I'm along for this ride, I'm just going to try to be be with this movie for all that it gives me and not try to poke holes or even figure out anything. just kind of really you know like I'm not trying to deconstruct it, which is weird because when I when i
Killer Kyle: There's so much fun in deconstructing time crimes and and like the movements that happen in that to be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, that's fun. That's all that. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I see how that how like, like there was that, like watching that, watching the chaos that ensues when time travel begins to happen.
Killer Kyle: in Time Crimes is it comparing it to what you see in Primer. it's like i they're They're both these cautionary tales, but one is is cautionary and feels other than, like, I could not have been a part of this in my real life. And Time Crimes feels like I absolutely could have, which I think is an interesting thing. I have a hard time not thinking about these two movies together and because we're watching for this podcast and all those things, but like the the things that I really liked, I mean, i i just the the the confidence to pull to to do to to put this movie forth in exactly this way feels like a crazy artist just being so true to whatever it is they feel has to be the case and not wanting to compromise. and
Dustin Zick: Shane Carruth is pretty crazy from what I've read.
Killer Kyle: yeah Yeah, yeah.
Alex: I checked that out.
Killer Kyle: Well, in my in my experience, most most yeah most mathematicians are in my experience. There's a few there's a few that are not, but and they're ah maybe they're faking. But yeah, high level math tends to tends to bore into you.
Killer Kyle: The way that everything unfolds, The ability of the movie to keep things from you, but also have this paced dialogue that's also kind of always making you pay attention, but even if you can't really understand it.
Killer Kyle: that just it's in and And at times it's like a little frenzied. i I like that it is able to give off the vibe of the danger of time travel amid all of the potential windfalls, like all the good and the bad, and then just this this ultimate danger of what is happening.
Killer Kyle: And I like i like how, next to again, I can't think of this movie right now without really kind of bringing in time crimes, but they they both accomplished that in completely different ways.
Alex: Thank you.
Killer Kyle: i I liked what Primer did. I guess I don't know right now If I am going to go back and rewatch it, I don't know if I'm going to wait a while. i don't know if i it's it's It's like watching, a I don't know, at times it felt like watching an opera where I'm like, yeah I can tell that there's there's wild things happening here and there's like you know and there's there's some technical ability on display, but I also have no idea what's being said because this is an Italian opera and I don't speak Italian.
Killer Kyle: So that level of unapproachability is is difficult at times, but if this movie was two hours long, I think I would have lost my mind, but it's so quick and tight that you're, yes, that you don't just have to, yeah, you you don't you don't you're not, it does not, yeah, it does not linger.
Dustin Zick: Yeah, yeah.
Alex: Right, it's still well paced.
Dustin Zick: Doesn't linger on anything too long.
Alex: Right.
Killer Kyle: And I and i like that it you know that it's kind of unapologetic about how it moves forward.
Dustin Zick: Yeah, I think that's like it's it's one of its greatest strengths. And I mean, I think that unapologeticness is what makes it succeed in spite of its astronomically non -existent budget. Like any any attempt with a movie like this to to hold the viewer's hand or to even like gesture to the viewer from a distance, I feel like would have made this exponentially worse.
Dustin Zick: fact that, like, at its budget, I mean, which, yeah, like that it's so dirt cheap, it's so bare bones, it's so basic.
Alex: Right.
Killer Kyle: yeah
Dustin Zick: The fact that it is so overconfident in how it's executed, like, it only works here. And I think, I mean, like, without getting too much into it, like, have either of you seen, I have not, but Karuth's follow up to this upstream color.
Killer Kyle: Yeah.
Alex: I have not now.
Killer Kyle: No.
Dustin Zick: I've I've read about it. I've read the plot and everything and like the the friends I have That I have that have seen it have said that it's like wholly inaccessible and just batshit weird But not that's not necessarily in a bad way but also like not in a like oh I love this movie kind of way and it's I to me it's kind of evident of like, you know, this guy had a singular vision and because he was forced to operate on a shoestring budget like He he found a way to bring it to life and then you start giving him more money and it becomes like It he doesn't know what to do with it and he he can't you know lightning doesn't strike twice but also it's like the money wasn't the It wasn't a solution to make it better and lack of money was like a solution to That was what it made it better the lack of it kind of a thing but yeah, I think that that
Dustin Zick: that cavalier attitude of like, you know, this is you're you're either in it or you're not is what makes it so good. It's kind of like a puzzle that I don't really care to know if I can solve it.
Dustin Zick: Like to that idea of like, do I want to watch it again?
Alex: Yeah.
Killer Kyle: Yeah.
Dustin Zick: Like maybe again in like 10 years if someone asked me to watch it with them or or I read something really interesting that makes me want to revisit it. But I'm not going to like I don't I don't feel like I need to like go and connect the dots on the back end.
Dustin Zick: And that's okay, which is not typically the case. I mean, like to your point, Kyle, and we'll get into it in a second, like with time crimes, like all of the fun of that movie is seeing how everything's connected and and plugging in those threads to be like, oh, that is oh, I know that like you have all the moments and that makes
Alex: Right. you You're keeping pace with all of those twists and turns where here I felt very left behind. They're just different experiences.
Dustin Zick: Yeah, and that's great and it's fine and it works really well, but it's like I don't feel like I need to come back to it because I don't feel like I'm going to get. I don't feel like there's another layer to peel back that either either I feel like there's just an image of a layer, but there's not actually anything there.
Dustin Zick: Once I peel it back or I'm going to peel it back, I'd be likeh this like, doesn't I don't feel that interested in it because I'm not a mathematician. I don't understand the logic of this.
Alex: Right.
Dustin Zick: Whereas times I feel like is is not interested in
Alex: Yeah.
Dustin Zick: how this works or why this works. It's just like this is how it works. I'm showing you how it works and you can connect the dots on your own kind of a thing.
Alex: Well, with Primer, I think one of the reasons it made me feel satisfied as as a viewer was that I feel like we got enough glimpses of the iceberg peeking above the water for that to be dramatically and narratively compelling.
Killer Kyle: Yeah. and and
Alex: Like, do I understand the exact timeline of when Abe's girlfriend's father goes back in time and encounters them? Like, no, that is a Rubik's Cube that, as we've talked about, I don't really feel the need to unravel, but I do find it really fucking interesting that At some point, someone external to that duo discovers the time machine, goes back in time, and they talk about the stakes in that moment. They say like, this is really bad. They're, you know, the fact that someone discovered this and traveled back, you know, and created a duplicate of himself.
Alex: They say something like, the permutations are endless, but none of them are good. And I thought that was really compelling. And I think there's just a precision to the plotting and the scripts where even if you don't,
Alex: you know, want to solve that Rubik's Cube, you get the sense that it would all fit together if you did. And based on just Reddit threads I've skimmed and by people who do, to your point, Kyle, get that fulfillment and get that joy from seeing how the puzzle fits together, you can go down that road. And yeah, one one other thing I just wanted to call out is about this movie's subtlety and precision is the The script is very minimalist, but I love some of the lines we get in here and what they you know imply about time travel and just even like the comedic value of some of them. This movie has an all -timer time travel line for me, which is, I forget if it's Abe or Aaron, I think it's
Alex: I think it might be Aaron, but he's saying, like I haven't eaten since later this morning. And it's just a great, funny way at like gesturing at the clusterfuck that they've embedded themselves in. But I cut you off a minute ago, Kyle. What were you going to say?
Killer Kyle: Oh, ah just yeah just that i I do like the characters and I do like their you know they they're they're two different you know arrows and in sort of who they are. And frankly, it reminds me a lot of the the garage van garage text of myth we were talking about is you always have those two types, right? The conservative and the liberal, essentially, if we want to boil it down very.
Killer Kyle: very reduced that in that way. But I also, what I appreciate about this movie and I think part of the, I don't necessarily think it gets there directly or it was a direct intent of Garuth, but just the the the utter messiness of time travel, I just appreciate.
Killer Kyle: And yeah, I guess. and That's something i I just think that this movie, even with the, it hits on the the chaos and the messiness of of time travel and also the complete, we have no idea like what's going on as the viewer, but it still gets like, that's the thing that I think it really wants to hit home and in that way it kind of delivers the goods.
Dustin Zick: Yeah, absolutely.
Killer Kyle: yeah, let's let's get into time crimes. Because time crimes for me um um timeramps for meat is like completely different. there's There's chaos in time crimes with with what is happening with what is happening once once the initial, well, I guess it's not the initial, but once once once things start to go down that pathway.
Killer Kyle: where it it's chaotic, but also still like rather neat. And rather like it you know And it's very approachable. you know like these these All the characters are having very, and it's instantaneous, which I think is a huge, that's something that Primer does that is that is very unique and I think really makes it what it is in a lot of ways to your to your point, Justin. And the instantaneous level that you, what you get with instantaneous time travel in time crimes and the way that the way that information has unfolded,
Killer Kyle: i just and There's very few movies that I see and I will tag, and somewhat flippantly at times, just to steal conversation and and inflame people or get them on my side.
Killer Kyle: But like this is this is like a nearly perfect film. like This movie just... i don't I don't have a single complaint about it.
Dustin Zick: Yeah.
Killer Kyle: don't have... You know, like every every line, every movement, every like kind of contrived but not contrived because it's very believable and and feels like a wonderful aha moment when when all the hectares are running around and one is outsmarting the other and like the the chaos of having multiple duplicates and and and just just the way that the information is given to me from the beginning until the end is just so sublime.
Killer Kyle: and the and And kind of the the journey that Hector goes on in all the various iterations of him, from you know the anxiety to the like fully in control to the seven steps ahead of everyone and and how he has to loop it.
Dustin Zick: Uh -huh.
Dustin Zick: And I love like when you think about like the when you think of the time frame in which this movie takes place, which i mean time travel notwithstanding, I think it's like two to three hours tops of like what's actually going on.
Killer Kyle: Yeah.
Killer Kyle: Mhm.
Alex: Right.
Dustin Zick: and just to see his character kind of evolve from like the pure like just innocence of like witnessing stuff from afar to like at the very end being like so cold and calculated it's kind of like wild to think of that and then I mean this is this movie I think it it's it doesn't even go so far as to like call it out in the movie about like the time travel paradox kind of the thing but that's all the plot is here right it's like you're in a causal loop like everything that's happening is like predestined to happen and he falls in that slot immediately like to the point of like
Alex: Right.
Dustin Zick: ah ah Maybe like for me like that's like the moda come of a the the closest I can have to a complaint which is not a complaint but like a curiosity in my mind is like in other movies where time travel movies where something's going to happen and a character is like I don't know how that's going to happen but it's supposed to happen usually it's written in a way where you see And I don't know which way is more realistic, but usually I feel like it's written in a way where like this this event that doesn't seem like it could possibly happen, just kind of Rube Goldberg's into happening, right? Like this falls on that and this person does this and oh, that's how that happened. Whereas in time crimes, it's like Hector sees a situation that he recognizes that he's on the other side that he had previously seen before, and then he feels compelled
Dustin Zick: to take the actions so that situation which he had observed from the outside happens when he makes the woman strip naked, when he puts the bandages on his face and does the the the like the binocular thing. like And he only does that because he had seen himself do that. But he never even, at least for us as the viewer, he never really posits the question ah to himself internally, to anyone else,
Dustin Zick: Of like what if I don't do that what happens? It's just like a natural thing for him to be like, well this this is the the path of which I must clearly take um, and I it's part of what makes it fun and in seeing like you kind of like they telegraph that out earlier on and then The the twists that come at the end with him thinking he killed his wife And that wasn't his wife because it was the girl he made look like his wife like that kind of stuff is where the real fun kind of happens. And it's weird to say fun when he's talking about killing an innocent girl and stuff. But like the the fun of it comes in seeing like him connect those dots. And then you can you're kind of a step behind in connecting that afterwards. But I think for me, that was like a really interesting thing about it, to realize that like he
Dustin Zick: He never once once he understood that he was traveling in time and that he was kind of predestined to make these steps. Like he never questioned it. He just did it, which is wild.
Killer Kyle: But it's this it's this incredible interplay between fate and free will.
Alex: Yes.
Killer Kyle: that is hard to, it's it's I mean, it's like it's i mean it's it's like the it's like the Heisenberg and and the uncertainty principle, right?
Dustin Zick: Yeah.
Killer Kyle: like As soon as you you you start to tie down one end, the other end slips away and vice versa. And it's it's something that is hard to accomplish, I feel like in time travel movies, you know when when we decided not to watch for this or whatever, Looper, they they free will is used in that a completely different way, right?
Killer Kyle: It's like this lightning bolt that changes everything. And in this one, it's
Dustin Zick: Is that really a question or is you you feel like it is or it it's not a part of the fabric?
Killer Kyle: It's like part of the fabric. Yeah.
Killer Kyle: Oh no, I feel like it is part of the fabric. Yeah. In the sense of, are you saying like you're watching this movie and you're like, oh, it's all fate.
Dustin Zick: Okay.
Killer Kyle: It's all determined. It's all like, and he's on the train.
Dustin Zick: Don't feel like it's that's a good question like to me I didn't never even really felt and I totally I'm familiar with you know those two When posed with that kind of binary question But I never even thought of it that way when watching it until now and you're you're posing that question I feel like for me when I watch this it's just kind of like It's not even like fate kind of a thing.
Dustin Zick: It's just him almost thinking like, well, this it's just logic almost of like, well, this I saw this happen, so like i could so now I have the power to make this happen, and that's the only
Killer Kyle: Yeah, I saw this. I have to execute.
Dustin Zick: concept I'm familiar with. So that is my strongest component of control is making this choice, which I guess kind of, you know, very much so, like dovetails into that question of fader -free will.
Killer Kyle: It's interesting, right? Like. Yeah, and it's it's it's it's it's easy to be like in in these in these two worlds, right?
Alex: Right.
Killer Kyle: It's easy to be like, oh, things are free and undetermined, and that's the way it is. Or they're determined and unfree. And this movie is able to kind of sit on the sit on the fence in a way that is very enjoyable and like very playful.
Dustin Zick: Yeah.
Killer Kyle: And it's hard to, when you think about it just intellectually without experiencing a narrative, it's hard to wedge one into the other once you've established one or the other and you're going with it.
Killer Kyle: And this one's like, I don't know, because it's like, and it takes time travel, right? To kind of tease that out in a lot of ways. But that that that's that was endlessly, endlessly fascinating to me is like, yeah, that that those two, like he has to execute the plan.
Killer Kyle: But then there's the chicken and the egg, as you alluded to with the time travel paradox. And yeah, but God, just the way the information was given to us.
Dustin Zick: Yeah.
Killer Kyle: was just so the perfectly, you know, because I'm sure someone was writing this movie and they're like, which Hector do we start with?
Dustin Zick: Yeah.
Killer Kyle: You know what I mean? Like, there's there's there's the there's other versions of this script that never never got made that I think would not, happen all and all probably lesser them than what we saw, but yeah, God, this yeah movie was, I just let it, he's like walking around, he's seeing all like the remnants of decisions that he has yet to make or will make.
Killer Kyle: And he's like, look you know, like all those,
Dustin Zick: Yeah. Yeah. And then you it all it all ties back. like That's the other thing, too, is like this movie, like it answers everything, and and it answers questions you didn't even realize you had necessarily kind of a thing, or it reveals...
Killer Kyle: Oh yeah, it's tight.
Dustin Zick: true and to true time travel question. It's like Jeopardy. like It gives you the the answer before you get the question kind of a thing. And then you're like, oh, oh that's what that thing was for. like Or that's where that came from kind of a thing.
Dustin Zick: the other the I want to get your thoughts on this, Alex, a little bit. but
Killer Kyle: Yeah.
Dustin Zick: The other thing that i I just love about this and i I like I said, I don't remember how I ah found this or if it was truly like a blockbuster and I grabbed it off the shelf. But like the there's a I remember seeing like the DVD case and it was him in the trench coat and the pink bandage and stuff and like.
Dustin Zick: i Watched this with my wife and I told her once he put that the bandage on and like it's so goofy that it's pink because he like very quickly bled into it and it's like Saturated the whole thing But it's such a great visual and I'm like, oh this would be such a fun like geeky deep cut like Halloween costume to do we're like
Killer Kyle: Yes.
Alex: So good.
Killer Kyle: With pink.
Dustin Zick: either 98 % of people aren't going to get it, but the 2 % that are are going to be like fucking time crimes man like but because that's the only thing you would think that is.
Killer Kyle: Ooh. You're gonna freaking freak out. Yes. I am writing that shit down.
Dustin Zick: Yeah.
Alex: That's amazing.
Dustin Zick: But yeah, so i like that that look of him wrapped up in the bandage with the trench coat and with the scissors in his hand is like very iconic to me when I like think of this movie and and it's just a very distinct like somewhat like an oddly ominous visual, right? Like it's it's not it's not a pleasant look or anything, but and it's definitely like a more ominous one, but it's not like, oh, it's the devil or something. You're just kind of like, what the fuck is that? Why does he look like that kind of a thing? And then that's probably what reeled me into like renting it and and watching it.
Alex: Yeah that's such a good point because I think the the costume design is a really strong element here and you both have talked about kind of the joy of this movie which are you know in the delights of it which I agree with 100 % Looking back on it, those almost feel like weird words to use when there is kind of a voyeuristic griminess and like a seediness to this movie where you're with Hector watching the woman in the bushes. You see the woman in the bushes, you know, at one point taking its Hector's wife, fall to her death in kind of this really grisly way.
Alex: And I think part of that joy and delight is just the brilliance of the construction of the story and how that information is delivered to the viewer. I think the other part is how funny this movie is and how good it is as like kind of a covert dark comedy. And I think, I just had to look at his name, but I think Cara Ella Holiday they as Hector does such a fantastic job at selling those moments where he is trying to reconstruct what he has seen happen himself or remembering happening himself.
Alex: I freaking love the moment where he's trying to like do the creepy thing with the hand binoculars but you can you can't quite remember when he does it so he just kept doing it again and again and it's almost like a slapstick comedy routine and I think a lot of this movie plays like a slapstick comedy routine like when he is
Dustin Zick: Hmm.
Alex: trying to get the woman in the bushes to like comply with all of his his demands. like there's There's a farciful kind of note to it that I think heightens that that joy that you feel as a viewer in trying to keep pace with this story.
Dustin Zick: Yeah, and you see some of that comedy come through too and like when he goes through the the time travel device like how he comes out of it over it like each time he's like you know the first time he's like gasping for air because he was in the liquid and like the second time he's he's a little more flustered and whatnot and by like the third time he just like stands up and he's like ready to fuck shit up kind of a thing like that's another place where i I remember laughing out loud at the end because he his character just kind of evolved into this like Determined person on a mission and then again you just you're like I don't know I just that was one of my favorite parts of this is just seeing how quickly he like Figured out this like path he was on and like what he needed to do and like burst a plan of action on it was kind of interesting to see and
Alex: Yeah.
Killer Kyle: Yeah, like when he throws the chair, like the level of just like, whatever. Like I kind of throw this chair now.
Dustin Zick: Uh huh.
Killer Kyle: And like, and yeah, that's that was the moment I appreciated that in that comedic fashion.
Dustin Zick: Yeah, yeah.
Alex: Yeah. And you had a great point, Dustin, about just the evolution of Hector. And as he goes from Hector I to Hector II to Hector III, it's all the same person. That's part of the paradox here. But I think that arc is just so well executed. And you get such a sense of,
Alex: you know of him as kind of this competent everyman who is making these you know horrible decisions because it's tying into those time travel themes of of fate and pre -determinism but i i felt a lot of like sympathy and empathy for hector as he's doing all this fucks up shit and you're kind of thinking You know if I thought this had to happen so that there wouldn't be duplicates of myself running around and so that a duplicate of my me wouldn't be the one to like continue my life for life. You know felt the margins.
Alex: you know, are you capable of of holding someone at at surgical scissor points? And, you know, later on, as you realize, like, oh, if I want my, if I don't want that woman to be my wife, I need to act so that I, you know, cut off the hair of this poor, poor woman in the bushes who becomes like the punching bags for all of the causality shenanigans that happen.
Alex: And I think it just balances like the humor and the pathos and the trauma while making you as a viewer be like, you know I feel for this guy, even as he is losing his humanity, trying to reconcile these these three timelines.
Dustin Zick: yeah you think do you guys think
Killer Kyle: And it.
Dustin Zick: And I don't know when I asked this question, it might answer itself. But do you think when I think it was Hector two thinks he killed his wife, right? Like up to that point before what appears to be his wife falls off the roof, he's like that. Like he he if she didn't, presumably he could go on. Everything would be hunky dory sees his wife fall off the roof and then guys think
Dustin Zick: resolves to travel back again to to you know fix the situation. Do you think that Hector III at that point, his thought was either A, I need to make this woman look like my wife so that my second version of myself
Dustin Zick: kills this version or this woman that looked like my wife that wasn't actually my wife and my wife will be safe now. Or do you think that he thought he could prevent his wife from being killed by making that woman look like his wife?
Dustin Zick: Do you know what I'm saying? Like do you think that like
Alex: Yeah, you're you're asking if it's a closed loop and if he was trying to line up the loop or if he changed the timelines.
Dustin Zick: Yes, that's a very, ah ah very eloquent way of putting one out. Like, that is not but how I would have sufficed it, but that's exactly what I'm asking. Do you think he was aware, like, was it a closed loop? Did did he have that consciousness? Like, was he smart enough at that point? Or was he truly just trying to, like, change the past?
Alex: So I think because the viewer, we're shown the shoes and we're shown that the woman who falls to her death is wearing the converses, which the woman in the bushes is wearing. And when that happened, I thought to myself, wait, this doesn't make sense.
Dustin Zick: OK.
Alex: How did he get the the shoes on his wife from the woman I thought was passed out in the bushes at that point? So I think if they show that to the viewer what we know about Hector is that he is savvy enough to you know we're seeing this all through his eyes it's so voyeuristic my interpretation is that Hector saw the converse is and was like oh shit it's a closed loop that's not my wife I need to make sure this happens the way that it would need to.
Dustin Zick: oh and that makes him like that makes sense but that's that yeah i guess i hadn't yeah yeah because because he doesn't even
Alex: It's really fucked up. it like it's such It's such a moral line to cross that he does. so I'm going to sacrifice.
Killer Kyle: i'm i'm with i'm with alex on this one in terms of the interpretation yeah i'm with alex
Dustin Zick: Because he doesn't even know though, like when Hector too sees the woman fall off the roof, like he doesn't know, like to him, that just means his girl's dead.
Dustin Zick: his As far as he knows, he doesn't know that his wife is dead, right? So like, yeah,
Alex: Oh, that's a good point because he has he has the urgency in going back to be like, I need to save my wife.
Killer Kyle: I'm with Alex on this one in terms of the interpretation.
Alex: So maybe he did his issues, and that's just a puzzle piece for the viewer to go like, oh, that's how this works.
Dustin Zick: because so because otherwise,
Dustin Zick: That's what my thought would be because otherwise, you know, if his main main goal is to save the life of his wife and he saw the shoes and realized that wasn't his wife, mission accomplished pretty much.
Alex: That's a good point.
Alex: right yeah why would he go to all this trouble if he you know knew at that point so i think you're right
Dustin Zick: But I think, yeah, but I think to your point, go ahead.
Killer Kyle: But but he also he also knows that he has to get back to the time machine. So like there's more that has to happen after that.
Dustin Zick: Well, how does he know that?
Dustin Zick: Because I think youre I think what you're saying, like, ultimately, like. To your point, Kyle, before, like this kind of shows that it was predetermined, right? Like he sees her fall, assumes it's his wife, immediately makes the decision, I need to go back and fix this. While going back in, he decides, OK, the way I'm going to or, you know, once he gets to the house in the evening, whatever, he decides the way I'm going to fix this is I had brought this girl here I'm going to make her look like my wife.
Dustin Zick: And that way, the person that falls off the roof will not actually be my wife, but the person that Hector too saw that he thought was his wife will be this woman who looks like my wife, but it was always her to begin with.
Dustin Zick: So it is, yeah, it's fucking brilliant. It's what it is at the end of the day.
Killer Kyle: yeah yeah Yeah, the addition of those converse really, that's a real, that's a yeah that's a that's a fun but's a fun detail.
Dustin Zick: yeah like
Dustin Zick: Yeah.
Dustin Zick: And it's so tight.
Killer Kyle: I'll have to watch it again.
Dustin Zick: I mean, it's so tightly written. 90 minutes, 92 minutes, like just like doesn't.
Alex: Yeah.
Killer Kyle: Yeah, all these all these movies were were short and moved.
Dustin Zick: Yeah, it doesn't waste its time. It doesn't, you know, dawdle. It doesn't... I love, like, I love the setting. I love, you know, the fact that it's not, like, just in a in a house, but, like, the fact that there's, what, four characters, ultimately?
Dustin Zick: Like, I love...
Killer Kyle: Yeah.
Dustin Zick: It just... It has a great kind of vibe to it that just feels very... And, and you know, we talked about it earlier, this being the most expensive one. There there probably was some level of visual effects, but nothing...
Dustin Zick: Sci -fi in terms of that, you know, maybe like some matte painting in the background or whatever, like taking out a camera that got on frame.
Killer Kyle: yeah
Dustin Zick: But I just love like the vibe and and how like. This to your point earlier, Kyle, like feels so much more realistic in a way than primer, at least to the average viewer of like, oh, I could be a Hector like that could happen to me.
Killer Kyle: Yeah. Oh, I feel like this could happen to me.
Alex: you
Killer Kyle: Absolutely.
Dustin Zick: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's so relatable in that regard.
Killer Kyle: Yeah. And I yeah and i will say like as from from from a from a ah ah use of things in film visually to...
Killer Kyle: to How do I put this? It's a very effective use of nudity because it happens quickly and you're like, what?
Dustin Zick: Yeah.
Alex: Right.
Killer Kyle: And it almost functions as this like distraction. And then he then has like this moment of what the fuck is going on in the woods right now is like flipped upside down on you.
Killer Kyle: And and hey I put this movie on and and you know those those naked breasts appear very quickly and my wife's like, yeah look there it is, more men making nudity movies. And then like it and all that happens unfolds and I was like, oh, you have no idea how effectively those were used as like a distraction to just move things forward in this way. So yeah, kudos kudos to Nacho on that. Also, his name is Nacho and that's amazing.
Killer Kyle: That is the director. And on that note, I feel like...
Dustin Zick: Yeah, he's also the guy that runs the time machine. He he acts in this.
Killer Kyle: Oh!
Dustin Zick: Yeah, that was him.
Killer Kyle: Oh, I did not realize that.
Dustin Zick: Yeah.
Killer Kyle: That was him. Oh, that's fun.
Dustin Zick: Yeah.
Killer Kyle: Nice. I can't wait to watch this movie again.
Alex: but Yeah, me neither.
Killer Kyle: Luckily, I own it now. Yes, I own all of these movies now. So, okay. Well, let's get into Safety Not Guaranteed because we both all three of us enjoyed Primer in different ways, but we enjoyed it. All three of us really enjoyed Time Crimes. Okay, so Safety Not Guaranteed. And this was one that was definitely, if I remember correctly from our text chain, I kind of was like made a last second switch on this one to bring it in.
Killer Kyle: And i have I have a lot to say on it, but I'm curious as to what you two have to say, because you neither of you had seen it. And I don't want to put any words in your mouth, but you seem to both have very negative responses to it. So someone someone let fly.
Alex: Yeah, I can go first, because I think I had a slightly ah less negative response than Dustin. But I still i still did skew negative on this movie overall, for sure, where I think it's very stylishly directed. I think the rhythm of the editing, the pacing, just the shot composition is all like really, really well done and really like you know lured me in in the beginning to becoming engaged with the story. But I just thought that there was a real, a lot of this came down to the scripting of the movie, because I like a lot of these actors. I, you know, Aubrey Plaza is great. We just finished a rewatch for New World. So I love, I love Jake Johnson.
Alex: But I thought the script to this is kind of a dog. And there's kind of a hollowness to all of the characters that made me feel like I was watching you know cardboard cutouts of real people who have all these affectations and quirks that I just couldn't i couldn't really connect and engage with them. you know And we're given all these all this time to these various subplots that to me just all felt totally flat. You've got this a lot with Jake Johnson where he's having this whole, you know, personal journey where he is discovering that the past is not how he remembers it. and
Alex: You can't have idealistic visions of ah ah people in your mind with this this woman he had a crush on, know, dated and then goes back to to find. But I found that whole subplot so hollow and I found his character so obnoxiously written.
Alex: where even like the charm and charisma of the performer couldn't really elevate it to me. And that's a problem I found in all of these characters. I found that you know I thought Aubrey Plaza's Darius is probably the most fully realized. And her backstory, I thought there was real poignance there. But yeah.
Alex: Again, just didn't feel fully developed. Mark Duplass as Kenneth. Kenneth I think just really bugs me as a character. And he's the one character you need to have succeed for this movie to work.
Alex: And the whole question that this movie operates under is, is he crazy and delusional? Or has he really invented a time machine? And I never felt like we got enough compelling kernels in either direction to justify that central narrative question.
Dustin Zick: Yep.
Alex: Because when it came to like is he really a brilliant like engineer, we never got any insight into that side of his character. And in terms of him being crazy, it just kind of felt like he was a bit of like a weirdo loner and there wasn't enough like real pathos there for that to be a compelling hook. I just thought it all felt underbaked and underwritten for, you know, a movie that was really stylishly, you know, directed, well acted.
Alex: I can see why it got the acclaim that it did, but it just it didn't work for me. And then at the end, when we get that final reveal of the but time machine. i I felt so deeply unsatisfied it's during that moment where like I could feel my eyes rolling in the back of my head where it's like this does not feel earned.
Alex: I don't feel the joy or catharsis here.
Dustin Zick: Yeah.
Alex: I just feel frustrated and misled as a viewer. And then the ending where it just ends right there, to me that wasn't like an effective cliffhanger.
Alex: That was just narrative blue balls or for something that wasn't properly established for me. What about you, Dustin? How was your viewing?
Dustin Zick: I mean, you put it very eloquently compared to how I would probably like distill it down had I spoke first. I feel like I don't necessarily agree with...
Dustin Zick: I felt like visually it just felt cheap to me. Like I didn't feel like the I felt competent, but it just felt like cheap and like there was a ah ah sheen to the the the visuals like that just felt a little like.
Dustin Zick: I don't know, like Hallmark movie -ish, that just threw the vibe off for me of and made it really hard to like pin down like what vibe I was like supposed to feel with it. I felt like, agreed, like I like all the performers here. I'm not a huge Jake Johnson fan, but I i genuinely like enjoy him in most roles, but here I did not.
Dustin Zick: and then everybody else I feel like they tried the best with what they had but I felt like none of the characters were written with any like the dialogue and everything just felt off to me like it was it felt like a movie that was like written by really competent AI like there there's something going here, but it was just every everything about it just felt like it was it was a Stepping towards the uncanny valley in a weird way of like we're like either written by AI or somebody that had like lived in a bunker for like 30 years and like just didn't Didn't have a full context of how like people and engaged in the world today Which is a pity given all the performances and then I think what really sealed the deal for me was that ending scene like it was it would have been one thing to like pivot to some sort of like
Dustin Zick: off you or, you know, to have like him present a machine that who knows if it works and then like have that be off camera and you hear sounds and see lights or something and in that kind of like inference of like, is it working? Like maybe kind of a thing. But the fact that they like just straight like straight up showed this boat with the goofy lights and shit that like implied very heavily like, oh, no, it's totally a time machine.
Dustin Zick: really took me out of it. Again, like I'm open to it being a real time machine, but just the like that the effects look so cheap to me that it kind of ruined it. And then also to your point, Alex, of like is he insane or not? like the idea like When Kristen Bell showed up and you find out that like his ex girlfriend, he said, died years ago, didn't actually die. And like, not only did she not die, but she was never really his girlfriend. You're like, whoa, this guy's not just like.
Dustin Zick: a little bit like crazy. He's kind of creepy. Like like it it took a step and like, oh, like maybe he's not safe kind of a thing. And I don't feel like they ever answered to that, right? There was never, there was a little bit of conversation with him and in Aubrey Plaza's character, but there was never any like him truly atoning for like, I misled you, I lied to you. And so you're never clear as like, is he delusional or did he just make this up?
Dustin Zick: Like, does he truly is he like fully out of reality with it or not? And and if there is.
Alex: So i had I had a different read on that just to jump in real quick. I thought it was one of the one of the few interesting things I wanted to see more of.
Alex: My take on that conversation with Aubrey Plaza afterwards and that whole story and the scene at Kristen Bell's house is that it happened the way that it did.
Alex: in his story and then he went back and changed it and he crashed. He was the one to crash into the house as a way to like save, you know, to save him.
Dustin Zick: Yeah.
Alex: But to your point, it's not effectively communicated through that conversation where You know, it it's not as well woven throughout the narrative as it would need to be for that to be a really interesting execution of that idea.
Alex: So I would love to have a good idea for execution is how I view that on my viewing.
Dustin Zick: Yeah.
Dustin Zick: Yeah, no, I mean and this was that I watched this one first and almost Back on like the six or the so like three or four weeks ago. So I was like the least you know being a movie I didn't enjoy very much I have the least amount of memory for it But even you saying that I'm like, okay, like that's clicking more and like that would be really compelling And those kind of beats throughout like I feel like a better written story would have threaded a few beats like that throughout it right like
Alex: We would have had more elements like that. They wouldn't just be the lone isolated incidents for it to feel integrated into the story.
Dustin Zick: Yeah. Yeah. Because this could have worked ah so well as a movie that like the time travel machine piece, you know, is is the catalyst to the story happening. But then at the end, you've realized it's all bullshit, like straight up like no, no bones about it like does not exist. Like this could have worked. Not not as is in my mind if like as is if it was shown that time travel is not happening. Like that wouldn't have fixed my other issues with it. But my point being like a compelling story could have been written or another, you know, I don't want to dismiss you liking this, Kyle. So another compelling story could have been written with that kind of same thread of like, oh, I invented time travel and then you find out the person didn't. But I feel like, yeah, it just kind of sits on the fence for me in a way that's really unsatisfying in either direction. and And it just feels very
Dustin Zick: very sophomoric to me, I guess, in a way that I would describe. like Thinking of the four levels of of upper education kind of a thing, like it's not a freshman. like Clearly, you know people know what they're doing and whatnot, but it's definitely not senior level, it's definitely not freshman level, and it's it's right around sophomore. like there's there's There's droppings of something good going on here, but it hasn't added up for me.
Dustin Zick: Kyle, tell me why I'm wrong.
Killer Kyle: yeah i mean i i think well it's ah well it's ah you know it's it's it's hard to tell you why you're wrong uh...
Dustin Zick: Because you're so wrong, there's just no getting to it.
Killer Kyle: other other than other than other other than other than both of you absolutely are of the both of you absolutely are uh...
Alex: I love it
Killer Kyle: no i mean i i think i think so i'd i do enjoy this movie i do i i do enjoy watching it i'd be happy how dare you you better not take it back uh...
Dustin Zick: Well, you're wrong.
Killer Kyle: I but I you know i it is not it's not perfect and I think it does struggle with with trying to figure out what exactly it is. And I think there's times when it gets a little bit enamored with the time travel aspect. And I think there's times when it goes to the the more people need support and people need camaraderie in this world type of angle. And and I wish that it had kind of picked one and and gone a little bit harder on it.
Killer Kyle: than it did. I think the final scene is infuriating but also fun and also really complicates it for me in the sense of, you know, I am on the ride of, is this guy crazy or is he not? I think i think the fact, like Alex said, that I went back one time before and and maybe has messed around with some things,
Killer Kyle: To me, I really like what that does to all of that Christian Bell conversation.
Dustin Zick: Yeah.
Killer Kyle: and and In it in a lot of ways it's like it's a movie about and a lot of ways, it's a movie about trust and like the trust between Aubrey Plaza and Duplass.
Dustin Zick: i
Killer Kyle: I think that obviously is the is the is the central is the central relationship in this thing. I did like the subplot with Jeff going to try to revisit his past, and I do appreciate the like little juxtaposition there of like it's a time travel movie and this guy's trying to go relive his past and you have the young guy who's trying to come out of a shell and and figure out what he's going to be in the future to type stuff. And Aubrey Plaza's got got an interesting past and all those things. But like I did like his little sojourn into trying to to make something out of his life that he's clearly dissatisfied with, with this woman.
Killer Kyle: And that this character that is kind of insufferable in a lot of moments, like gets the biggest gut punch of everyone. And it's not necessarily time, it's not at all time travel related, but he's there for it. So for me, I liked the characters and I liked watching them kind of do their thing. I think the the the performance by Duplass in the, is he crazy or is he real?
Killer Kyle: I... i this this This movie also came out at a time when I feel like Mark Duplass was kind of surging out of the Mumblecore movement. And i i i I liked his performance here. And I think that, on the one hand, I know what you're saying when when your eyes were rolling, when the time machine shows up and it's actually a time travel machine and they poof out of whatever existence that we're having a moment. I think that moment's wonderful with the with the reaching and the, like,
Killer Kyle: I don't know. i like I like that moment. But I also feel like if this movie... There's many and there's many there's many other ways I would have done it, right? But like if if at the end of the day, this movie ends with him just being crazy, it's like the worst movie ever made.
Dustin Zick: Oh, yeah, no, for sure.
Killer Kyle: Yeah. Yeah.
Dustin Zick: Yeah.
Killer Kyle: and so and so and so yeah yeah it's it's It is the worst movie I've ever made.
Dustin Zick: I don't...
Killer Kyle: and i kind of like
Dustin Zick: Yeah, Yeah, that was...
Killer Kyle: Yeah. And and i like and i and i I liked the tension of the word stealing shit now from this place. But also you like, i yeah, yeah, that's it was funny.
Dustin Zick: I thought that scene was freaking hilarious. Like, I love that. i think
Killer Kyle: And then like, they're also there's no like alarms raised. They're just like, is who is this person stealing our shit?
Dustin Zick: yeah Yeah, they're just having cake or whatever. I think i think would you know this is oversimplifying my biggest grievance with this, but like I think what's immensely dissatisfying to me at the end is that like we find out that
Killer Kyle: Yeah.
Dustin Zick: and And to your point, Alex, like i i can't like I'm kind of curious to go back and like rewatch parts of this, but I have to figure out where I rented it from or like where I streamed it because I don't feel compelled to spend money to rent it again. But if I can find it streaming somewhere, I feel like I want to go watch that Kristen Bell conversation and things like that. Because i feel like if i because right now,
Dustin Zick: but well rewind back 10 minutes ago before you said that and I didn't process that and just assume based on that Kristen Bell conversation that he was just fucking crazy.
Alex: Just look at this
Dustin Zick: like It seems like he was crazy. What's dissatisfying to me at the end is that we find out A, the time machine is real, but B, he's also fucking creepy and crazy.
Dustin Zick: And she's like not not Not only is she not actively like repelled by that, but she is actively attracted to that craziness, which was immensely unsatisfying and fucking confusing to me. It's not even so much that you know effects and whatnot that visuals, I think that was just so turned off by the idea that like that conversation, as I read it with Kristen Bell, like didn't immediately turn her off to him or at least force her to have a much deeper direct conversation with him, that I was like, why do I want to see them come together at the end? And then to see them come together on a time machine was like even more unsatisfying. But I feel like. Yeah, like with that context in mind, I can see
Dustin Zick: that ending being more compelling because it's like that question being more on the fence about whether or not he's crazy or misremembering things or delusional, once that's less once that becomes more nebulous, that ending with the time machine becomes more acceptable in a way.
Dustin Zick: But for me, as I had watched it and viewed it and and digested it, it was like, no, he's clearly delusional and dangerous. And so not the good guy to have a time machine and certainly not the guy to like hop on the time machine with kind of a thing.
Dustin Zick: That kind of pulled me back from it. But now I'm like, we'll just find that scene on YouTube or something because I want to digest it more.
Killer Kyle: i think I think it's interesting.
Dustin Zick: Which I wouldn't have thought I would say about this movie. I'm sorry.
Killer Kyle: hey well that's what You see podcast success right there. that's I think it's interesting that the movie Like I said, if if it just turned out that he was crazy, this is like the worst movie ever.
Killer Kyle: And it's it's it's wild that they that they both are like, you know he he made the time machine, he's doing the time machine. And he is also all those things. Super hurt, pretty creepy, like very weird, very effective.
Alex: Right.
Killer Kyle: like The idea that this guy can be the one that can create time machine they can they can create the time machine, but also is just a person that is so desperate for connection.
Killer Kyle: And the emotional aspects of that box in the woods, i i i i just I liked all of that.
Dustin Zick: Wow.
Killer Kyle: and i And the movie kind of got me. And I knew that, you know, I knew that it had been effective on me in certain ways when Ari Plaza goes to open the box. And before you see if there's anything in it, like the level of anticipation that I was feeling in that moment was strong.
Killer Kyle: like who Oh, yeah, all right. Nothing's in there. Interesting. But that, you know, being, having it be able to pull that out of me, that's kind of like, there's something effective going on there for me. And I do, I like the characters that that's the biggest thing for me is like, I could have just watched these characters interact for a lot longer. I do think they could have been better written at times. like the performances. But you know and And even in that even in in some of those side things that you mentioned, Alex, they that didn't really land for you. Like when Jeff is rejected by his by a vision of the past and he takes, I do not remember his character's name, but they go on the bender and they he's just like, let's go do something stupid. And he just buys liquor and just the first pretty girls they see outside of any gas station is like, woo.
Killer Kyle: that. I like all of that, and that's probably because there's coming of age aspects in there, so you know what am I going to do? But but yeah, like i and also again, this is another movie that it's like, if this movie is two hours and 10 minutes, get me out of here.
Killer Kyle: You know what I mean? but like it it
Alex: Right.
Dustin Zick: Yeah.
Killer Kyle: it it It does its business relatively quickly and I think if it if it had tried to get any pack anymore in that it would have lost itself even more. That said, this is a movie that I can watch and know that I like it and why I like it and also watch and be like, yep, totally. This is not a movie that I that I'm going to go to war for in the sense of I get why people don't like it.
Killer Kyle: Just like Alex, you can watch it and be like, oh yeah, I get why critics are responding to this, right?
Dustin Zick: Yeah.
Killer Kyle: Because what if it was the Rotten Tomato meter on this, like 98 % for critics or something?
Dustin Zick: Yeah.
Killer Kyle: And there are those movies that I've hated that I'm like, what are you assholes talking about with this liking of this movie so infusively, right?
Dustin Zick: Yeah.
Killer Kyle: So it's a movie that I like and appreciate it. I just, yeah, I like the characters. I like some of the some of the um of them trying to try to overcome your past type stuff from the other characters that were not involved in the time travel. I liked how it really made you wrestle with the fact that it was crazy or not. I like some of the tension that it builds in the moment. And yeah, the last scene.
Killer Kyle: i mean Honestly, even to the point of like ah Jeff raising his fist in the air at the end, what it's just like it's so hokey, but also he's doing that and then they actually time travel and he's like, wait, and wait, what?
Alex: paper.
Killer Kyle: They actually gone? I was just being ridiculous because I'm a ridiculous person and then he's like, well, shit.
Dustin Zick: Yeah.
Killer Kyle: you know
Dustin Zick: Yeah.
Killer Kyle: and Yeah, that everyone is just so convinced he's crazy. So yeah, I don't know.
Dustin Zick: I also wonder if part of why I hated this is because.
Dustin Zick: I didn't see that. Other, you know, deeper layer part of like he actually went back in time and change time, so without that. The time travel component to this movie is literally Crazy Guy writes an ad that mentions time travel.
Dustin Zick: Is it real or not? Who knows? And then at the end, the resolution is, yeah, it actually is real. And that is immensely dissatisfying with those two bookends literally being in the context of watching three movies about time travel for a podcast about three movies about time travel.
Alex: Right.
Dustin Zick: That is immensely unsatisfying. I feel like I probably would have enjoyed this a little more at least the story of it Maybe not the performances and the script writing and stuff like that But the story of it had I had had I seen that later to it Yeah
Alex: Sure. And I think where I'm at with that, Dustin, is I think that that one element that we get isn't enough to support those two bookends. Like for it to have been effective for me, it would have needed to be more deliberately woven throughout the entire movie.
Alex: And one thing we haven't talked about, but I definitely have a very petty movie, petty reason for disliking this to the extent that I did. And no movie gets any profession right, but I was totally rolling my eyes at like,
Alex: the way that this depicted being an editor for a mid -sized magazine. Dustin and I have both worked for a mid -sized magazine and the thought that like anyone is paying like hundreds and hundreds of dollars for hotel room and food for like, you know, for three people to pursue a mid -level feature about a crazy guy is just mind boggling.
Dustin Zick: yeah Our crazy guy that is purely based off of a like 58 word Classified it.
Killer Kyle: And add, yeah.
Alex: Right.
Dustin Zick: I mean, I guess that's the context that you need to take with this Alex is like this takes place ostensibly In a time where Do we know the year that this takes place?
Dustin Zick: He goes back to 2001, so it probably takes place roughly around the time that it was it released in 2012, which I guess really isn't. I was going to be like, oh, if this took place in like 2002, maybe or certainly like.
Alex: right I would buy it a little bit more.
Dustin Zick: Yeah, yeah.
Alex: In, like, 1990s, sure, I'll buy that magazine budget for Inflated Enough back then. 2012?
Dustin Zick: Yeah.
Alex: No fucking way. Get out of here.
Dustin Zick: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Killer Kyle: But yeah, but I also i also like though that just to that point there where no one has an idea in this meeting, like, oh, we got anything to write. And everyone's like, no, nothing.
Dustin Zick: yeah yeah
Killer Kyle: Magazine's basically dead. And they're like, well, just we'll throw some money at this. You know what I mean? It's not like you could you could almost believe it if if around the room people were like, oh, I got this amazing story.
Dustin Zick: yeah
Killer Kyle: I'm winning all the prizes for this story. They just won a prize. It's the greatest magazine in the world. Of course, we have the budget to let some random interns in this guy that no one really likes around go do some wild goose chase on an advertisement, right?
Dustin Zick: Yeah,
Killer Kyle: But like the the way that they sell you in that moment is, there's nothing else to write.
Dustin Zick: yeah.
Killer Kyle: Still may as well send them on this mission as opposed to we have so much and that we could just we could just dispense with these interns and this guy and like they can go do whatever and no one has to care.
Dustin Zick: oh Yeah.
Alex: Right.
Killer Kyle: But yeah, like even that editor calls them and is like, what's going on? Where's my story? And it's like, I don't know if that's the move.
Alex: Yeah, I mean, better movies have come out of far flimsier plot premises and hooks, but it was one of those little things that, again, just added to the lack of, like, texture in this world and in this premise where I'm like, I'm not buying any of this.
Dustin Zick: Yeah. Well, let's hit our rankings here.
Killer Kyle: Yeah. Yeah. right Well, yeah, wrap her up.
Dustin Zick: I feel like it's kind of obvious, but Alex, why don't you go first? How would you rank these?
Alex: Yeah, I would rank Safety Not Guaranteed as my number three, Primer as my number two, and Time Crimes as my numero uno. And I am very excited to rewatch Time Crimes. I think it has a healthy lead over Primer for me. I loved it.
Dustin Zick: I'll agree with that.
Killer Kyle: Hmm.
Dustin Zick: That's the exact same order I was going to do.
Killer Kyle: Yeah, I am actually going to on strict rewatchability in the sense of I know I will watch Safety and Not Guaranteed before I watch Primer. and i
Killer Kyle: liked more things that take place. And yeah, for me, Saving That Guaranteed is two. Primer is actually three, but it's not like a slight. Do you know what I mean?
Dustin Zick: Yeah, yeah, for for sure.
Alex: Totally.
Killer Kyle: And Time Crimes is number one with like a bullet.
Dustin Zick: Yeah.
Killer Kyle: Of all the movies we watched in this podcast, I've texted a bunch of people that watch movies like, have you fucking seen this?
Dustin Zick: That's fucking awesome.
Killer Kyle: You've seen this, right?
Alex: hi I did literally the exact same thing.
Killer Kyle: You need to. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Alex: I was like, yo I'm going to go to that for this movie with anyone who I talk to.
Dustin Zick: That's awesome. And that was a slam, slam dunk for Dustin.
Killer Kyle: I have to tell people about this. Yeah.
Alex: The world the world needs to know.
Killer Kyle: Yeah. Yeah. And I got my and i got my Halloween costume for next year, so huge one.
Dustin Zick: I'll take it. Yeah, right. You know, and actually, if we all find ourselves together for a Halloween party, we should all three of us go as three, Hector, one, two and three.
Alex: that's amazing It's amazing.
Dustin Zick: Well, I think that does it.
Killer Kyle: It's very good.
Dustin Zick: We will see our rabid listener base or hear, I guess they will hear us, our rabid listener base while I'm butchering this closer in our next episode.
Dustin Zick: Thank you all for joining us for this one.
Alex: Happy travels, y 'all.
Killer Kyle: Thank you.
