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00:00:01
Color
38 Plays5 months ago
Alex highlights three movies with notable and exceptional use of color:
- Suspiria (1977) — 10:36
- Ran (1985) - 35:27
- Portrait of a Lady on Fire (2019) - 56:23
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Triple Take Cinema is where your hosts, Dustin, Alex, and Kyle, dive into three movies with a twist. In each episode, one of us takes the reins and picks a theme—whether it’s a wild connection or a subtle thread—and assigns three movies that fit the bill.
We all watch, and then the real fun begins as we dish out our takes.
There are no rules and no limits—just a wild ride through movies we love, movies we've never seen, and a few we hope to forget.
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Transcript
Introduction of Hosts and Episode Theme
00:00:00
Speaker
You are listening to Triple Take Cinema. I'm Alex Orlando, here with my two co-hosts, Dustin Zick and Kyle Brown. Kyle, you ready to talk movies today? Yeah, I'm ready to talk movies. we can Can we do this episode with like a penetrating death metal vibe in the background that never stops and ceases so everyone's on edge the whole time? I didn't know we were talking movies today. No.
00:00:23
Speaker
it's a really dumb joke I'm into that. We are specifically talking interesting uses of color in movies today. I am always drawn to movies that use color in intriguing, compelling ways, kind of where it's the definitive element that makes the movie for me.
Honorable Mentions in Color Usage
00:00:48
Speaker
um Before I get into the three that we are gonna talk about, I wanted to rattle off some honorable mentions that we did not end up covering just to give everyone an idea of the types of movies we're we're thinking about here. um So these are some honorable mentions for movies that use colors in interesting ways that we did not pick for today's episode. um They are In the Mood for Love by Wong Kar Wai, Hero with Jet Li, Sin City,
00:01:18
Speaker
Vertigo, the infamous Hitchcock Vertigo, Sean Baker's The Florida Project, and Tarsim's The Fall. But we're not talking about any of those today.
Selected Films for Discussion
00:01:28
Speaker
We are talking about, first and foremost, Suspiria, the 1977 movie by Dario Argento, ah Ron, the 1985 movie by Akira Kurosawa,
00:01:42
Speaker
and 2019's Portrait of a Lady on Fire. And as we talk about with all these episodes, I had seen just one of these movies before this. ah Ron is a personal favorite of mine.
00:01:57
Speaker
It was one of my top four ah films on my letterbox for quite a while. ah Definitely in, if not my top 10, at least my top 20 movies of all time. um And I wanted to pick two other movies that I had not seen ah's to compliment Ron for talking about color in film. So I went with Suspiria.
00:02:22
Speaker
because I've seen the 2018 Luca Guadagnino remake and really dug it, but have not seen the original and heard that that used color really interestingly. um And I also picked Portrait of a Lady on Fire, which I have not seen.
00:02:38
Speaker
I've been on my list for a while, no one got a lot of acclaim, and also heard that it uses color interestingly.
Hosts' Initial Experiences with Films
00:02:45
Speaker
um And as we're talking today, I want us to talk about all the things that we found cool and fun about these flicks, but through the lens of of color and just kind of how that informed our viewing. um Dustin, maybe you can kick us off and talk about what your relationship is ah with the these three films before watching them for today's episode.
00:03:07
Speaker
Yeah, so I was, ah I'd seen Suspiria at least two or three times, ah definitely two times in the theater, um including once in the... You saw that movie in the theater? You went into a yeah theater and watched that? Holy. Yes. Go on.
00:03:24
Speaker
Uh, well, the first time the first time I ever saw it was in the theater. And the, um, God, I'm trying to scroll through the Wikipedia page because I'm forgetting the goblin, the band that scored the movie.
00:03:38
Speaker
Um, they were doing a live tour, accompanying the movie in theaters. Um, and so I saw it at Milwaukee's historic Oriental theater. And, um, in addition to, you know, the score being there, I vividly remember walking through in the Oriental, if you've never been, is this is grand theater. And.
00:03:59
Speaker
ah historic, you know, very decorated, ornate. And you walk through this kind of, there's three screens. There used to be only one screen, and then they kind of like segmented off two little kind of mini rooms off of the main screen. This was on the main screen. And you walk down this kind of long hallway. And above you, ah you there's there's a balcony up there. And at the top of the archway of the the hallway, which is maybe about one and a half, two stories,
00:04:28
Speaker
they had a mannequin hanging from like in the movie, like the girl, the first murderer hanging through the ceiling ah in a dress, you know, hanging from like a noose. And ah that kind of just set the bar for me. I had been familiar with some of Argento's other work. I think he did demons, but I might be wrong about that, but it's definitely in the same, you know, Italian horror kind of vein. I'd known kind of what to expect from,
00:04:58
Speaker
Italian 70s horror, which we'll talk about in a little bit. So I was familiar, very familiar with, uh, Suspiria. Go ahead. Was the, was the ticket to get into that, uh, you personally sacrificing a goat. Was that the ticket? No, no, it wasn't. No, no. unfortunate Unfortunately, it was not. yes oh Okay. I had never heard of, how do you pronounce it? Ron. Ron. Ron.
00:05:23
Speaker
I had never ever seen or heard of it. Um, I was vaguely familiar with Kirasaka's name. Um, but I, you know, honestly, honestly, like Kirasawa, Kirasawa's name, case in point. vague be that like where i can't yeah yeah yeah Um, but like,
00:05:49
Speaker
Japanese cinema in general, outside of some Japanese horror from the 90s and 2000s, was a big blind spot for me. And then Portrait of a Lady on Fire, I remember hearing about when it came out, but really had no concept of the story or anything like that.
In-Depth Analysis of 'Suspiria'
00:06:04
Speaker
ah Kyle, how about you? Well, as previously mentioned with my relationship to horror, no, Suspiria was something that had thankfully never been put in front of me. um Because, yep,
00:06:18
Speaker
That's, yep, that I had never heard of this movie. I had not heard of the remake. um maybe Maybe it's just a Google algorithm algorithm just only feeding me non-horror films after after learning in my every whim and desire over the last 15 years or whatever. But anyway, and I had know no concept of this. And then I tried to, like I like read a couple taglines before I watched it, just to be like, oh, okay. And then the first 15 minutes the movie happened and I was just like, I'm gonna kick the shit out of Alex.
00:06:47
Speaker
um ah but that it's actually i tried initially Well, ah you know, again, I like a babe in the woods. Um, I, I started watching that movie at like 11 30 at night after watching a very exciting hockey game. And that was not the move. That was not the move. So I had to table that for a time and come back to it when the sun was out. Um,
00:07:17
Speaker
and shining brightly on every nook and cranny of the room I was in. Anyway, so I had not i not seen that or heard of that or anything like that. um i yeah I definitely had, I'd watched Ron a couple of times when I was younger. um And yeah, I mean, it just just, you know, I went through a big Curaçao phase when I started to get into film and watched a bunch of his stuff. And yeah, it this is it was one that I was,
00:07:45
Speaker
It was, that was, we'll get into it, but like, that was the most interesting rewatch of all these because, well, the only rewatch, but, and therefore the most interesting, but, um, yeah, it just was much different than the, what I remembered it to be in good and bad ways for me. Um, and Portrait of Lady on Fire, I hadn't really heard of, um, I kind of had heard of it because the title is good. And so it's just kind of this thing you hear once and it kind of, you know, it just kind of,
00:08:14
Speaker
Yeah, like when you put that down, I was like, Oh, yeah, I've heard of that. But then I started to look at it and like, you know, research it and see where I can watch it, all that stuff. I was like, I haven't heard of this. How have I heard of this? um And yeah, and that was that that was a <unk>s the kind of movie that I watched. And I started to try to figure out what else that director had done. um And yeah, so two, two big blind spots for me, when it came when it comes to this and then a nice and I hadn't probably had much run and 10, 12 years. So it was it was good to to check it out again. you know and And just ah just to dive right into like general color thoughts, it was an interesting way to to try to watch movies. um With that, you know it's it's much different than being like, what does this director do? What is this? you know like It's a very, or like how is sound used? It's a very different way to look at at at movies through this lens of how color is used.
00:09:13
Speaker
Um, to try, yeah, I guess I just, I found it to be, it, it heightened me in a way to, to, to several scenes that I appreciated. Um, and, uh, and it's also, it's good. I want to say, even correct me if I'm wrong, Alex, but wasn't Ron curious. I was first foray into color.
00:09:33
Speaker
I think it was, yeah, I might be wrong on that too, but I think it was and it's interesting because I was reading that Kurosawa trained as a painter before, um either before becoming a director or before shooting Ron. um And yeah, he definitely composes the images with that kind of painterly eye. um I think it's kind of cool about all three of these movies is that um you know, Suspiria to varying degrees, but definitely Ron and Portia related on fire, you could pause that at any point in those two movies, you know, potentially any three of these movies, put a frame around it, and it would be a damn good painting. um Just because of how they compose the images. um Yeah, i really felt that I really felt that way about Portia related on fire.
00:10:21
Speaker
which was sweet because the actual like painting was was pretty intimate in that. And yeah, the amount of times that I was just struck by composition of what I was seeing and how related to what the plot was, master work stuff, master work stuff.
00:10:36
Speaker
Yeah, and maybe we can torture you a little bit Kyle and start with Suspiria and do things chronologically here. ah And, you know, thinking about color and Suspiria and also thinking about not gelling with a movie like that I was talking to Dustin the other week and I was sharing that I watched Suspiria in two viewings ah where i I watched about half an hour of it and then picked up and watched the last hour and it wasn't until the beginning of that second viewing that the movie really clicked for me and it was in a scene that used color in probably the most striking way that we had seen up to that point. It was
00:11:19
Speaker
um about a third of the way into the movie where the girls, the premise of Suspiria is that um it is an all-girls ballet school and it is essentially, ah spoiler, a coven of witches. ah And in one of these early scenes, um the the girls are all kind of sleeping communally in a shared space and there are these curtains that are drawn around where the girls are sleeping and there's this like ghoulish just
00:11:54
Speaker
ghastly red that is coating every inch of the frame and you've got that like rumming goblin score that's just eerie and creepy as hell. ah You've got these silhouettes cast over the over like the bedsheets essentially that are surrounding the girls um and just that like that ghoulish red and the sound design and kind of the the narrative, which is we're starting to see the sinister things happening at the Spele school. It all clicked for me. And before that, where I thought the movie was pretty awkward and kind of stilted and was kind of lurching from dialogue scene to dialogue scene.
00:12:38
Speaker
um that was where the color theory and The sound design and the plot all jailed and I was kind of I was hooked from that point on Yeah, I mean I There's it almost was Well, maybe want to change smoke cigarettes for one for two it was it it I kind of liked the way it started and the way that it set the scene. And just immediately, like when you know when we're talking about how was color being used, and this is something that's used in a million movies, but like she shows up at all, I dress. I was like, okay, yeah, and I bet that's gonna get ruined very quickly. And then it it just blasted off into this ah psychosis of of of and you know crazy color and crazy gore
00:13:35
Speaker
um And psychedelic is the word that comes to mind for me. Yeah. I mean, if you're having a very bad trip, I agree. I definitely agree. But, you know, the trying to. Try I did, you know, I did I did try to look up some critical response to this because it's always interesting when something has. This place in film history and a lot, of you know, obviously it's got some polarizing views from from from when it came out to to now.
00:14:05
Speaker
Um, and I think the, the most, the best, uh, the best description that I read that I think, uh, I agree with in terms of how the movie made me feel, uh, and the over the top use of color and, um, ah just, you know, interesting shots and just crazy pacing and crazy sound, uh, is, is like, then it's a nightmare. Uh, is that it's like a, it's a nightmare on green.
00:14:33
Speaker
in And kind of that herky-jerky nature of it, it all that all tracks with me. And that's kind of the way that I can give it ah credit, I guess, in terms of why was this made? You know what I mean? Or like, what what is it about this that you that that made Argento want to make this? Where was the the hook ah for him other than you know in people? um And I i don't...
00:15:02
Speaker
it's It's such an abrupt beginning with some of the gore and it's very affecting and I tend to not actually be affected by gore. I think the sound on top and you know the the the color and the composition of stuff and and how quickly things moved really, really unnerved me in a way that was not comfortable.
00:15:25
Speaker
um and so it accomplished a lot of its goals. um You know what I mean? Whether or not I, yeah, I could, I don't think I could watch this in the theater. I'd like, I do not think that would be something that I could do and be okay for like a couple of weeks after. And so in a lot of ways, yeah, there was something about that beginning scene as well where the stabbings are extremely, have you seen,
00:15:54
Speaker
Jake Gyllenhaal, killer. ah hunten No, but for
00:16:01
Speaker
yeah treat alcohol killer he's a killer no he's not the killer. he's march um ah ah it's with hugh jackman no with No, no, no. that's you're You're thinking of, you're thinking of prisoners. Oh, my sweet little zodiac.
00:16:20
Speaker
so we yeah zod yeah Yeah, like the scene the scene at the park with the couple. Yes. yes Yeah. Yeah. I see what you get when you're making we're like both of those stabbings feel so visceral. We're like you feel the night going in as a viewer. as it's just Yeah. And that that that like as soon as that that that was happening, it put me in a ah different a different mindset, but I, but I also, it was, it was almost just too much of that. Like it was too much pedal on the metal for me, um, to not allow my senses to kind of reset. Um, you know, you, you, you think of that scene in Zodiac and Zodiac's got some Zlorinate for sure, but it, it has all these moments of calm in between. And so those, yeah those moments get really, really heightened. Like when she gets stabbed in Zodiac, it's very jarring and it comes almost out of nowhere. And there's just this chaotic rhythm to,
00:17:13
Speaker
yeah period Yeah. For it just, that was hard for me to, again, want to maybe want to change some of the cigarettes. I just wanted, it was just like, this is never letting up, you know? And in that sense, psychedelic is good because you're kind of, you're on this ride. Right. I didn't, I didn't feel that some of that gore, I don't know, you have to kind of give yourself over to it you know in a lot of ways because it it didn't feel like super justified. Like I did think there was some thinness of the plot and it was hard to really grasp onto to stuff.
00:17:41
Speaker
Um, but it was an overwhelming film experience, uh, for sure. And so, like I said, in that, in that way, a lot of the goals were
Exploration of 'Ron' and Its Visual Storytelling
00:17:49
Speaker
accomplished. Um, and I, I guess I'm just kind of interested to to hear, you know, how your experiences of this were, um, you know, but yeah just talk it like, I appreciate, like, this just underscores, like, I appreciate you.
00:18:05
Speaker
for lack of a better word like being vulnerable enough to like watch this stuff like for this just because um you know as we've established like i i'm a like a gorehound a horror hound and i think a lot of it comes from a fascination with like how they do the effects and like i like watching the behind the scenes stuff so like i kind of unplug from the reality of it a little bit with that in mind But then, um yeah, so I just want to say for for one that I appreciate you watching these things that give you that kind of visc visceral reaction. I will say like I
00:18:43
Speaker
I don't get that from horror that often anymore. And the few horror movies that have done that are ones that I certainly wouldn't recommend to you. and and but so like like i'm I'm almost a little jealous of that. and and But I also appreciate, to your point, of like you like this movie like performed its goals perfectly in what it's trying to accomplish. and Sorry, muting so I don't cough into the microphone.
00:19:11
Speaker
um I think it's interesting to hear you say that like it accomplished its goals as like kind of a horror movie because for me it's like this movie does not, even the first time I saw it, like did not scare me. like I do agree about the stabbing and the visceralness of this. Alex and I talked the day after I watched it and I i think I told him, i'm like it reaffirmed my my my perspective that like I'd much rather be shot than stabbed if given the choice. like Stabbing to me feels like a very it's ah intimate and like damaging. and I just feel like healing from a stabbing attack would be so much harder than being shot. and like this movie like When I see that stabbing happen, like it almost kind of takes me out in terms of
00:20:05
Speaker
thinking if it like, it it it feels, my my gut instinct when I watch it is like, oh, this seems fake because the the blood, the color of the blood pops, which is part of, you know, the color, like, I love that.
00:20:20
Speaker
it's a very like 70s and early 80s horror movie thing where like I feel like they just couldn't get the color of blood quite right and it looks almost comically red a lot of times and you see that movies like Evil Dead and whatnot where it goes to the extreme but I think it works to some effect in this both with the the mosaic of color going across like the rest of the movie but then like even the motion of the stabbing feels so fake that it's almost I'm almost like I imagine this is probably what it really is like it's not like you hear a ton of noise when you're getting stabbed or something not to over
00:20:58
Speaker
uh gesticulate around the like the stabbing scene itself or anything but that feels visceral and for me this movie is is very much about like the sum of its parts making it as special as it is because I think the acting is terrible. I think what you were talking about, Alex, with the the dialogue feeling stilted, I feel that through that the entire movie. And that's that's some of that you know Italian foreign movie
00:21:29
Speaker
American, you know whatever dubbing, pseudo-dubbing they did afterwards, a lot of that like just falls flat in terms of of the execution. um But like the the two sensory things that you get are the the color palette and and the unique colors that oftentimes Literally don't make any sense for like why is why is this hallway green or whatever? Like where's the lighting for this it just it but it looks awesome and then night that very night yearss yeah very night And then the the soundtrack to this I mean Honestly, I would just as easily put this in a ah you know trio of of movies with very affecting ah specifically instrumental like original scores like I feel like I
00:22:17
Speaker
what Goblin did with the soundtrack and kind of layering it on this, like it would not have the same effect if it was any other music and any other instrumental music styled in a different way or anything. So for me, this movie is is most enjoyable in that visually what you're experiencing and audially what you're hearing as far as the music goes and in certain scenes the the sound effects too and things like that like the story and the dialogue are kind of I mean like witches doesn't do it for me it's not something I don't feel like there's a ton of great witch you know horror movies out there in general um but I think that ah the other thing I want to underscore with this one
00:23:06
Speaker
For me, thinking of all three of these, obviously when Alex, you said you wanted to do color, this being the one I've seen, I was like, oh yeah, of course that makes perfect sense. But even coming out of all three, I definitely can see the importance and the use of color in Ron. I saw it on the the second half more than the first half of Portrait of a Lady on Fire, um and I can appreciate it in those.
00:23:34
Speaker
But I feel like this is the one movie where if you mute the color palette or if you don't have as unique of a color palette, I don't think I would like this movie half as much as I do. I think it's visually so unique and so interesting. Whereas not that the other two aren't.
00:23:53
Speaker
But there's enough other stuff going on with them that like my opinions of them The the weight of the color usage and it doesn't weigh as heavily as it does with with this one and maybe that's because In this one. I feel like the the color is just like kind of a cool fucking thing and that nightmarish feeling compared to the other two where I think maybe color is more symbolic and more trying to represent. Right. It's articulating themes that are the movie's underscoring, whereas here it's part of that audiovisual experience that you're talking about. It's part of getting you on board with that nightmarish hallucinatory, um just vibe the movie's going for. ah I think about even that first scene when Susie is walking through the airport
00:24:40
Speaker
And the way the neon signs are like glowing around her is very, you know, surreal intentionally. um And I agree, Dustin, I think this movie's, you know, main triumphs are audiovisual. They are not, you know, the complexity of its plot, which is pretty damn minimalist and simplistic.
00:25:01
Speaker
um You know, we get one exposition dump about two thirds of the way through about, um you know, this old witch, Helenos Marcos being the, you know, the source of the evil in this Academy. And then we get to the end and it turns out, yep.
00:25:18
Speaker
It's, it's all her, you know, she's, she's the, the one giving the coven this power so it's not like there's a complex plot. ah I do think there are some interesting themes happening here, when it comes to. um you know institutionalized like institutionalized societies for for women and like the catty nature of some of those and the hierarchy. But all of that feels a little kind of cartoonish and one-dimensional, where it really is about you know providing this dreamscape for Argento to play with, with the color and the sounds.
00:25:58
Speaker
um And I agree, Kyle, about that that first kill, the stabbing, um being really jarring. That was why I think I didn't like the movie initially, was and there wasn't a crescendo that let me build up to that first killing. It was just kind of like I got thrown right through that stained glass window along with that character where I was on my bearings and be like, what the fuck is happening right now? um And I think the other kills were more successful because there was a crescendo. There was an escalation of of plot and narrative where
00:26:38
Speaker
with you know the guy getting attacked by the dog where there was like a buildup of tension. um I think you know this is a movie that lives and dies, more so dies, on the strength of its kills. um And I think that um when that girl is trying to escape and falls into the barbed wire is the most effective you know horror sequence in the movie because there's such a clear buildup and such a like the way he rings out the tension of is she going to escape you know the music stops and the camera's pointed up as she's um climbing up the the cabinets and into that room and then she drops down and it reveals that she's in the barbed wire um that like that made my my stomach sink but in a really satisfying way because I felt like I was
00:27:32
Speaker
along for the ride. Whereas with that first kill, I felt like I was just being thrown into it in a way that, you know, was less engaging for me as a viewer. How does it resonate with you guys? I just want to point out with the barbed wire scene, like I've always felt like this is a good scene where I struggle to understand and I feel like some movies do this better than other TV shows of like What is illuminated for us as an audience versus illuminated for a character? Like, am I able to see the shapes? And I mean, specifically, literally in the scene, am I able to see the barbed wire when she falls into it? Like, it seems like it's pretty well lit. Am I just able to see it because her being in a pitch black room with barbed wire, like would not be visually interesting?
00:28:27
Speaker
um there's nothing to show there or if you take it literally i always thought it was kind of funny how she like just didn't look down and like jumped and like all a sudden like whoops whole room full of barbed wire and i just didn't realize that's what i was jumping into um and and i think that one of the first time i saw it i i probably chuckled out loud of just the absurdity of it and then the second time i saw it was when i was kind of like wait a minute am i like Is this illuminated just so I can see what's going on as part of the audience? And I'm supposed to suspend, you know, suspend my disbelief that she can't see it because it's so dark. And that might be giving it more credit than it's due for the time it was made and things
Discussion on 'Portrait of a Lady on Fire'
00:29:12
Speaker
like that. Like I don't think, like we kind of talked about, like,
00:29:15
Speaker
this movie and part of its era and I may be totally off base by saying this as much as I love movies like this I'm not a true expert but like my understanding is that like this was a slasher movie or a guy who I don't know how to say it GIA the Italian cinema ah genre of film where it was kind of about the schlock and the gore and the gares and less about the you know the art kind of thing. But it kind of became about the art in general. I'm eating my words right now, so. Yeah, I mean, the I think what you say about buildup in horror moments and and the use of gore in buildup, I think is is important. is'
00:30:05
Speaker
I know it's very important for me and my viewing of anything that I involve. And it's, you know, I don't typically, and this was so, it was interesting to feel that way watching this because I have taken efforts to desensitize myself to that so that I can watch more movies and all those things. And because it was just very quickly like, what the fuck is happening?
00:30:31
Speaker
um And it doesn't have that, that, you know, the, the buildup was really just the, the, the sound and the, I mean, the weird cab ride and like, it was, you know, it just was, it set you off off kilter a little bit. And so the, the buildup wasn't story or plot. It was just. This, uh, creation of suspense and tension, uh, through many means, um, to not to not have the buildup, that the ceo know to go back to this to the stabbing, the scene in Zodiac that ends with that has this very long buildup to that, where you're just you're you're just very concerned about what's going to happen. And then when it does, it happens in this way that's very procedural and cold. And it lasts with me in a different way than than this type of this type of presentation. but
00:31:25
Speaker
I agree with you with that scene because and i need i just I need that build up for it to really have the impact beyond just visual stimulation, I guess, um to have sort of a a totalistic feel of really being there with it as opposed to more feeling like I'm watching a car accident and I can't look away type of thing. So so yeah, I mean, that's, ah Yeah, I mean, again, this is, is I'm glad that this this project that we have here exists because it does put me and put me in front of things that I just would have never come into contact with. And this is certainly one of them. um Yeah, and I don't know anything about these Italian things that you're talking about with regard to this this this world and this time period and what was created and all that stuff, but it just, yeah. it um
00:32:17
Speaker
a movie that I would recommend to a very specific type of person. And also one I can definitely see as, you know, very clearly generating a cult, oh, they're playing this movie at 12 p.m. at the small theater, you know, like all, like that's, I can see it being almost Rocky Horror Picture Show style, where it's just, you want to go because it's an experience. yeah And not necessarily you're going to know think differently about something after it, I guess.
00:32:45
Speaker
Yeah, this is what that's like kind of an interest. like I ah wholly agree. And it's it's kind of one where I'm like, I don't think just seeing it on a big screen by itself makes a big difference. But seeing it in an audio, I mean, you can just feel, you know, like,
00:33:07
Speaker
empath feel like from an audience that's you know very deliberately there and excited about something. And then also, like I said, seeing it with the live score from ah Goblin was incredible and like that totally adds to it and like just creates a whole different vibe for sure. Yeah. And maybe this is a good segue into talking about Ron ah because I think one of the things that really elevated Ron for me is I saw it when I was younger, like you Kyle, I think kind of in my early twenties, I was on the Kurosawa kick and I was trying to see a lot of his movies and I saw it then. But about two or three years ago, when I had first moved to Milwaukee, I also went to the Oriental theater where they were doing a showing of Ron and seeing it on the big screen with a crowd full of people,
00:34:04
Speaker
uh it was selected as part of their their staff picks so there was someone who introduced the movie and talked about their their love for it and I do think there's a bump that you get from seeing um any movie in a theater but especially seeing it at you know say a historic theater that is special to you and an important place that really really elevates it um So I think seeing seeing Ron at the Oriental really gave me that that bump that elevated it in my mind, and it was a treat to revisit it for for this episode and just kind of fall in love with it all over again.
00:34:46
Speaker
ah And I guess one way to kick us off would be talking about um how color informed my viewing this time, which was that very first opening credits scene that we get where we're seeing these lush landscapes in Japan where um the story's taking place and we see all of the characters framed really small in the corner of the screen.
00:35:15
Speaker
and they've got these, you know, these different primary colors that they're wearing, the three sons. The movie's about an aging warlord who is separating his dynasty among his his three sons. um And they're wearing ah red, yellow, and blue kind of primary colors respectively. And I just remember being kind of awestruck at how the the green landscape that Kurosawa is filming totally dwarfs the like
00:35:46
Speaker
the characters in these kind of, you know, garish primary colors. um And it almost made it seem kind of silly, you know, the the domestic squabble that we're going to see play out over the next two hours, which is going to result in many deaths and be, you know, it's a tragedy. It's ah a Shakespearean tragedy.
00:36:07
Speaker
ah But I just love how he used color to kind of ah symbolically dwarf these characters and show that they are, you know, insignificant when you look at, you know, something like a green landscape or, you know, the beauty of nature. And I just thought that was a fun way that color kind of informed inform my viewing. But we'd love to hear from from you guys, you know, how how you reacted to this movie and how color kind of shaped your your viewing of it.
00:36:37
Speaker
It doesn't you didn't you haven't seen this way before so I'm very curious as to your perspective with this year, your experience. viewing it So I struggled with this. It took me about 4 days to watch it in full.
00:36:50
Speaker
um
00:36:52
Speaker
i I do feel like when it comes to color. The the strongest connection I felt to that was that whole opening sequence with the the green landscape because I feel like the the green landscape didn't make much of a return throughout the rest of the movie and I'm sure that was kind of deliberate of the You know the dirt and the ah gravel and that kind of stuff um So I remember going into it. It's been two weeks since I watched it now of like thinking like, yeah, like this was gorgeous. Like, wow. um The rest of it just like, I think I got, I told Alex this, I got
00:37:36
Speaker
I got re-engaged with it at the point where um the one brother, the first brother dies and then his wife ah kind of throws herself at the other brother. um That whole sequence, I was like, whoa, okay, some drama going out. Like that got me like plugged back into it. um Yeah, I don't know.
00:38:00
Speaker
There wasn't like a particular like one thing I can like key in on like I again I think I ended up giving this a four out of five like it's certainly glad I watched it I can understand why it's well revered it just felt and maybe it was just an off week for me or something like it it was ah an uphill battle for me to like stay consistently engaged with it and to find it compelling throughout. And maybe some, I think some of it kind of lands on understanding the story and like this, like the domestic squabble kind of thing. Like it, it felt a little hard to like feel too plugged into that. And I think some of it too admittedly is, is
00:38:47
Speaker
naivete on my behalf of like cultural things and and understanding like character motivations or I feel like there are some instances with the dialogue where I was like don't really understand what they're talking about or so like what they're saying as far as their motivation is here And I think that was a a combination of maybe not mistranslation, but like lost in translation being Japanese, but then also being historic Japanese that it's
00:39:19
Speaker
You know, they didn't talk the same, just like Americans didn't talk the same 200 years ago or Europeans didn't talk the same 200 years ago. So there's a lot of little things that I feel like made it a struggle for me. But there was definitely like points in the story that I feel like I got more interested and found it more compelling.
00:39:38
Speaker
I did also love like the makeup effects and um on uh Hidatora like when he went that shit crazy and looked like to I mean just how ghoulish they made him look and how undead they made him look like I thought that was really kind of affecting and and intense um but I mean also just like What a shitty family. Like, what a bunch of shitty sons and kind of a shitty dad. Uh, cause it kind of seemed like, you know, he gives up, decides to, I'm going to give it up to you guys and then I'm going to do my thing and then starts doing his thing. And he's like, well, wait, no, I still want to have control over that. And they're like, well, you kind of gave it all up to us, dad. And, but then they decide they need to kill it. Like, yeah, there was,
00:40:32
Speaker
a lot of rambling for me to say like I don't want to say I didn't get it I i think I got it but I didn't like I didn't love it but yeah I don't know I also have kind of given thought in the last few weeks of like would I rewatch this I'm sure I would not necessarily like tomorrow but like I'd almost be more interested in rewatching this with somebody else who's really interested in watching it whether or not it's their first time viewing um and I definitely think I would compel myself to watch it in one sitting, to see if that kind of affects my thoughts and and interpretation of it as well. We'll get a movie night going on sometime, Dustin, because I would watch this any day of the week. Okay. All right. And I would, and if you haven't, if you haven't watched too much Kurosawa, my favorite of his is Yojimbo, which is a lot of
00:41:28
Speaker
shares a lot of connections with A Fistful of Dollars and that that character. Anyway, but but to to go to Ron. Yeah, I mean, i I remember liking this movie a lot more when I was younger and I watched it for the first time and maybe that was just where it was positioned in my history of watching movies. But um I felt the length uh, in, in this viewing more, um, than I, than I, I didn't remember that actually being a part of it at all when I watched it before. And I, so I felt the length this time in a way that it it did kind of drag out a little bit. I will legitimately say that the, and I think I texted you guys, you texted you guys this, you know, in the last couple of weeks, it, the existence of Shogun, the show on Hulu right now,
00:42:22
Speaker
that I have gone head over heels for and made this, I think I was more intrigued ah in the nuances of like feudal Japan and the culture there when I had not had any experience with it at all. And it isn't to say that I've done any research or know much more beyond watching and reading Shogun since it's come out. but it there were times when it kind of informed what was going on in a way that I appreciated. ah in the you know like when When you're saying, Dustin, that therere they kind of reject this idea that he can pull back on the power that he's given away and and reverse it a little bit because he gave it away. And that's that's kind of the way that it works. And seemingly, anyway, from from what i can from what I can glean from from feel how feudal Japan works, it's like this very interesting
00:43:18
Speaker
game of rules that everyone kind of follows ah in in a in a very rigid manner that leads to very interesting decisions and also leads to very interesting attempts to um exact influence in a situation because of your position in society.
00:43:40
Speaker
um so But yeah, it was, it was it was however, because Show Ben does that in a much more intimate way with a lot more explanation and a lot more kind of like diverse characters, ah it was difficult to take to get that from Ron like I did in the past. And that is very, I don't know, it's a very weird place to be in and a very like time and place of watching this. um I mean, I legitimately feel like we watched Ron in the first episode that we did and I have not yet engaged with this show that I would have almost completely different viewing.
00:44:12
Speaker
Now in terms of the use of color, the first the yeah the first scenes, and i and i I would be shocked and and and maybe someone can look this up while while I'm talking or whatever, but I do think this was Kurosawa's first foray into color. Everything else he does is black and white. And um that that first scene really felt like someone who had been given a new tool to express things visually, ah really running wild with it and enjoying the hell out of it with all those colors and all those landscapes. And I guess I looked at the use of color in this, in a lot of just the war scenes and the battle scenes and how how so much of so much of that history, so much of
00:45:02
Speaker
any history is just people dressing up in different colors and deciding to war on someone else who's wearing a different color, and how and how that is such a part of this this world of loyalty, and this is this is who we're with, and this is who we're backing, and and and you know we all we all wear these brilliant colors into this horrible, dirty, disastrous war situation, and warring with each other. so i I liked it, I appreciated it. It made me want to watch other, it made me want to watch other Kirasawa's again and some of the early ones just to, I don't know, re-engage with the whole, all his work. And, you know, it it made me research some um history of Kirasawa because he has a very, he has a very bizarre personality. He's a very intense personality when it comes to his history with film and doing it in Japan and doing it when he did it.
00:45:59
Speaker
Um, and so that in that sense, uh, you know, in that sense, I think that to me is kind of a lot of what I like to get out of a movie is, does it stoke my interest in the movie or something else beyond? And I think the best movies for me stoke my interest in the movie itself and the beyond and the behind the scenes and like historical stuff. It just, yeah I want to know more about.
00:46:25
Speaker
the actors, the directors, all the things. And so it did do that. you know I did really appreciate the filmmaking. um you know And it has that that that that that crazy makeup and stuff. There's all sorts of historical context there that Kirasau was going after and pulling from. um There is an aspect of the plot where you're just like, man, why are you all so dumb? Why why are you doing this?
00:46:52
Speaker
and and i didn't I felt like maybe I didn't have the the the explanation there that I wanted, especially given two hours and 35 minutes or something of runtime on this, like it was pretty long. yeaha It was more that could have been done there. but i I think that was maybe like part of where I kind of got lost with the plot of just like understanding the time and era and like there wasn't you know a phone to pick up but like stuff that's like if you guys just talked a little bit just you know
00:47:27
Speaker
said a couple more words. Maybe we could avoid some of this stuff. Like just some of that kind of caught me. Um, to answer your question about it was not curious. I was, or did I say that right this time? here zo yeah you got it Yeah. Okay. It was not his first, you were way off. His first color film was, I'm not even going to try to pronounce it, but it was in 1970. Um, 15 years before. Wow. Yeah.
00:47:54
Speaker
But he did that and then went back and did other black and whites. And it's interesting. I mean, I also, when you were talking about Suspiria and color and and its relation to the other two films we watched, there is a part of me that I think is interesting. And I think it would but it would have been, I'm not a hundred percent sure I believe what I'm about to say for Portrait of a Lady on Fire. But if you gave me Portrait of a Lady on Fire and Ron in full black and white, I think I would still get a lot out of those movies. And if you gave me so black and white, I would get literally nothing.
00:48:24
Speaker
Yeah, um so really a wholeheartedly like the the to is there it's a great, wonderful element of the film, but I don't feel like And and i my gut like my instinct is to say, like I don't feel like it it really drives the the story of the movie, but that's not what it really does in Suspiria. It drives the atmosphere, I feel like, in Suspiria, exceptionally well. And not that it doesn't impact the atmosphere in these other two, but it just doesn't there's enough other prose to these other two
00:48:58
Speaker
And enough other things going on that the the color palette doesn't need to carry the same amount of weight in terms of keeping my interest in making it worthwhile to me.
Comparative Analysis of the Three Films
00:49:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:49:09
Speaker
no Yeah, I think it's interesting that, you know, that both you guys have talked about um the the characters and finding some things to latch on to, but not others. I think for me, Hidatora's story was really the through line and the emotional kind of heart of the movie is his You know his descent into madness and and the tragedy of that that it could have been resolved by Having some heartfelt face-to-face conversations um You know the whole reason that he flees to the the third castle that's eventually besieged by sons one and two where they have the red and yellow armies on both sides and is because he's too proud to go to Saburo and apologize and you know kind of take refuge with him. he's His shame is too profound for him to ah to go to his third son who actually knows him and accepts him.
00:50:15
Speaker
um So he you know retreats to this this castle where he's then attacked. And I think the the makeup you know helped me connect to that, Dustin, like the the way they really make him look so like you know ghoulish and decaying. um you know They externalize his his crumbling mental state in a way that's really powerful.
00:50:40
Speaker
um I thought it was very sad how he has these moments of lucidity where among his ramblings he'll suddenly get like a flash where he's like, you know, what have I done? My, you know, my sons are all warring and killing each other. Or when he gets remorse for the crimes that he committed when he was a young warlord. um And you have those really um Again, tragic side characters like the um the blind the young blind man whose village she raided when he was younger and ah the sister of the blind man who's become like a Buddhist and is abstaining all violence. I just thought those threads were all really rich and I thought the visuals
00:51:27
Speaker
um Yeah, just told told the story without needing kind of expository dialogue or without needing characters to pontificate with each other, even though there's quite a lot of pontificating in this movie. It mostly comes from ah the the fool character, ah who I also really liked and thought that was a great performance.
00:51:52
Speaker
and it like Yeah, so you know a lot of lot of rambling thoughts by me there, but I think, um yeah, looking at Hidatora as the emotional anchor for the movie, um you know I think it's part of why it was such a ah deep experience for me, both the first time I saw it in theaters at the Oriental and then on this this rewatch.
00:52:18
Speaker
um And yeah, I also just loved how color was used on a practical level in terms of orienting you to what is happening with the conflicts. You had a good you know a good ah good point, Kyle, about how this movie really underscores that warfare is people dressing up in a different attire and clashing, you know armies fighting. um you know And it's these armies carrying
00:52:49
Speaker
ah blue bolts of cloth and yellow and and red bolts of cloth and I thought that helped you you know visually just be able to differentiate um which of the three suns you were seeing you know gave ah a clarity and a weight to those um you know those big battle scenes.
00:53:07
Speaker
ah I think for me the standout sequence happens when Hidatora is taking refuge in that third castle and then Sons wanted to kind of attack it and you have the red and yellow on either side of the flight of the frame. um You've got you know his castle going up in flames and as we were talking about the the lush green of the intro ah goes you know gives way to these kind of very muddy grays and browns and I think that lets the other colors pop some more. um Yeah, I just, I love i love that sequence of um the arrows flying in Hitatora kind of retreating inside. His face is, you know, totally ghostly pale white.
00:53:57
Speaker
um And for me, the standout image of the movie, um I have a little exercise I want us to do when we're ranking these movies at the end, but just to tease one of mine, um my standout image here is um Hey, there's horror walking down the steps of the castle.
00:54:15
Speaker
ah it's in flames behind him and you have the armies of itsus so his two sons kind of on either side of the frame. um And I think that's the moment where he does really go crazy and really lose his mind, um you know, because he's lost both of his sons who have killed all of his men and, you know, want to kill him and take take his power. I think, you know, as we're talking about this, I'm realizing that perhaps the priming of the viewing with the idea um of of how is color used and kind of thinking about that, perhaps didn didn't it allow me to engage with some of those elements that you just... I'm trying to think about why this was such an affecting movie for me 10, 12 years ago and why this viewing was not as much. And I i think it it you could be a little bit of that
00:55:16
Speaker
looking for color um in a way that almost distracts me from from really sitting with some of those, you know, looking for color in scenes and how it's used as opposed to really um listening to and and reading ah the the dialogue and the the character movements. It's kind of interesting to to just to think how how much the priming for a viewing, and I think about this when I you know go back to like the film classes I took and what I'm supposed to be looking for when I watch these classic films and how that can change my viewing of it in a way that is not just, hey, we're gonna put on a story and there'll be some elements and talk about it when you're done. So it's kind of it's kind of curious. I wonder if that if that has a piece of that, because when you talk about all those elements of the story, Alex, like it it it resonates more than it did when I just watched it.
00:56:09
Speaker
which is bizarre because it was such an affecting movie for me the first time that I saw it. So I'm just kind of wrestling with that. And I mean, if we want to segue to Portrait of a Lady, we can on that because that was a movie where, like you said, Dustin, the second half was more, there was more of that in the second half. And in the first half, it wasn't super,
00:56:39
Speaker
I mean, there were certainly the color involved, but it wasn't they it it didn't seem like a big focus. It didn't seem ah a huge a huge part of it in the way that it just does for the other two movies. And then it gets there ah in in the second half. But almost because of that lack or because of it it wasn't sort of an um overwhelming or big, in in-your-face part of the movie, I was able to like engage with the characters. And really, I mean, I loved Portrait of the Lady on Fire.
00:57:04
Speaker
and just watching everything unfold. And I thought the characters and the performances were spectacular. It's it's too bad that one of those actresses or actresses decided to not be a part of film industry anymore because it uh you know it's it's it's a part of the system that's terrible and keeps everyone in equal um which i agree but you know it's just too bad that that uh you know get to to to see her on screen anymore because she was wonderful um i'll have to do some more digging into that i had no idea about any of that behind the scenes drama yeah i mean uh eloise uh that actress who was actually uh i don't know if they're married or not but is uh
00:57:49
Speaker
partners with the director of the film as well. Yeah, OK. I mean, I just the the the the scene where they're painting. I mean, every scene where they're painting, I think it's great and scenes where they're painting the. She's recreating the the abortion to ah to to really. I don't know that felt very that was a very powerful scene where they're all doing that together after it's done as a way to help that made kind of process that with them in in this supporting way. um And how it was a person who didn't want to be painted and how that's kind of everything of that era, you know, portraiture and and that this is this woman's, the whole career she goes around and and paints people. And um I mean, I just thought it was a, I also, I mean,
00:58:43
Speaker
And maybe it's maybe it's just being naive and just enjoying a story. But it took me a while to be like, oh, they're going to get together. And that's that's that's what's going to happen. And so I kind of was a little bit maybe 10, 15 minutes late to that building. And that was a nice part of the viewing for me of, oh, oh we're going here. This is where this is going and how that um I thought was well earned because of that. Like it was very subtle.
00:59:09
Speaker
Uh, in, uh, in kind of how it executed a lot of, a lot of what it was trying to do. I love the, I just, I also always loved how that character of the maid was kind of a big part of, uh, of the storyline for, for them, for her. Like it wasn't just. A complete side thing. Um, yeah.
00:59:27
Speaker
And yeah the yeah, the dialogue, the writing, the acting, all those composition shots, like you say, I mean, where they're doing the painting and they have the dress and they're against the ah the the the windows and the the the light backgrounds. And I mean, it was it was gorgeous film. And then very, the ending was very affecting. Yeah, that final scene.
00:59:51
Speaker
of her. I went back and rewatch that like three times. Yeah. It's beautiful and heartbreaking. Yeah. And I mean, in in a way that like the, you know, the the little homage in the portrait that she allows with the the the page number, that's so that's that's wonderful. And that's an Easter egg, but just to have the ability to like voyeuristically for that character to be able to watch
01:00:18
Speaker
her expression of that love that can't be because of the way the world is. Oh, man. Yeah, just thinking about it was just so... Yeah, no, I get it. I'm getting misty, too, just thinking about it. It was yeah beautifully done. Yeah. Well, and yeah, just how long they held on her and, like, you can really see her reliving that time as she listens to that music and like emotionally the ups and downs, like the facial expressions, all of that. I feel like on a lighter note, there's two things two things that I want to point out. One, I mean, I think those, to me, those two kind of codas at the end of the
01:01:03
Speaker
the two times that she saw her again, the painting and and seeing that 28 as kind of an Easter egg for her and a message really only to her lover right and her seeing her at that show are the most affecting parts of the movie and like would not, that movie, I mean, it wouldn't be as impactful as it is were it not for those two scenes. I do feel like the,
01:01:31
Speaker
Sloppy's not the right word. Lazy comes to mind of like the the narrative structure that they use to tell tell those two beats, of her just suddenly narrating them. to To no one seems weird to me, given the structure they set up of her opening and closing as a teacher teaching students. like i would have thought that they could have more easily recognizing the issues of her telling her students about this affair she had with a, not a fair, but this experience she had with another woman would probably not be appropriate, but like
01:02:12
Speaker
It would have been more affecting to me if she was telling this story to someone or even just journaling it herself or something. The framing of her being ah in teaching her students feels inconsequential after you see the end of it because they just go to this random narration that seems kind of jarring. The other thing on a much, much lighter note I think I thought of watching this when I started it. She says the name of the movie in like the first two minutes when the student pulls out the painting and what's it called. That always makes me think of there's this great YouTube video of like, what would happen if a movie ended when a character says the name of the movie?
01:02:54
Speaker
yeah There's a lot to send it to you guys. Maybe I'll splice it in here. Like my favorite one is Black Hawk Down, because they do, there's like six or seven different movies they do. Black Hawk Down, it's like halfway through the movie and Black Hawk crashes and there's someone on this the radio going, we got Black Hawk Down, we got Black Hawk Down. And then it cuts to the credits and Phil Collins, Sousa Studio starts playing.
01:03:19
Speaker
And so that's the first thing I thought of when she says the name of the movie is I'm like, Oh, it'd be kind of funny if it just like ended right here. oh But yeah, i i absolutely love this. I loved the intimacy of the the setting. I was thinking about that this morning of how, you know, when they're outside on the beach, you you get this beautiful vista of them being outside. But everything inside, ostensibly, they're in a pretty big mansion of some sort.
01:03:51
Speaker
um But it's all tight shots. You never get to see like the full expanse of any room they're in. I think of when they are eating or playing cards with the maid and that almost looks like it was like on a simple sound stage like a TV set or something because some some of those scenes you see the the fireplace hearth behind them and the three of them are working on the table and that's it.
01:04:18
Speaker
Um, but it really added to the intimacy event and the closeness of it. Excuse me. Um, and yeah, I just felt you could really feel that relationship blossoming and being earned. And, and I think both of those leads did a phenomenal job of like.
01:04:42
Speaker
making you feel that that like that they genuinely loved each other and that there was like no question in either of their minds. and It also made me think of, have either of you seen Atonement? um I haven't watched Atonement since, like I think it came out in 2007.
01:05:03
Speaker
I probably rewatched it in like 2010. But I remember watching that with a ah girl I was dating in college and being like kind of emotionally broken by that at the end. And the spoiler for that is that like the the love story reuniting is fiction. um And he died in the war and everything. And like, ah I feel like I kind of had a similar feeling coming out of this of like that kind of doomed romance that you spend the whole movie like watching as it's being earned and and deserved and then you kind of get that crush at the end of like it can never be held on to kind of a thing.
01:05:49
Speaker
Yeah I think that's a great point and I love what you were saying Dustin about the the framing being so tight and close where there aren't a lot of wide shots and it really helps sell that intimacy. um There's also not a lot of camera movement in this where there's a lot of static shots where the camera just really lingers on an image and um I think it sells the patience of this relationship. It's really a relationship that's built, you know, you see it being built over time over these kind of stolen glances that happen during these interactions, whether they're walking on the beach when that's their dynamic and it's those earlier scenes or during the later painting scenes. um And you really just get to
01:06:37
Speaker
feel the characters' internal states by how they're how they're looking at each other. And you know the the Film Crit 101 reading of this movie is, as I was telling Dustin um you know today, it's it's all about like the female gaze.
01:06:53
Speaker
i But I really do think that's an illuminating way to look at it because it's really about, you know, stolen glances. And when you see someone and when you let yourself be seen, which I think is why the ending scene is so powerful because it is voyeuristic.
01:07:12
Speaker
um You know, Marianne is watching Heloise kind of without Heloise realizing it, so you get to see the full spectrum of emotions play out on her face.
01:07:24
Speaker
um And yeah, I just, i loved I loved that part of it and I loved the the patience in the filmmaking that let us see this relationship blossom
Final Rankings and Reflections
01:07:35
Speaker
um because it adds to the poignance and the tragedy because as you guys were saying, you're rooting for it so hard. You know, these people deserve to be together. And I almost ended the movie like kind of raging at the world that like,
01:07:52
Speaker
they couldn't be together in you know the patriarchal confines of 1800s European society or any society at that time period. But um yeah, it's just it it really lets you sit with the characters, you know see the emotions on their faces, and I think it just lets the ah the emotions hit that much harder when a film respects its audience and, you know, lets them linger with with those shots. Yeah. hey it's a Again, like this was this is kind of like I said in the beginning. um it was ah It was a movie that I watched and I was like, what else has this person done? Because I would like to watch all of those movies because I'm just curious as to what
01:08:47
Speaker
they've been able to do um in in their other films when they've tackled other pieces. And and is is it going to be more of this or is it going to be something a little different? like it just It just made me really want to watch more of Skiyama. Is that how you say it, Skiyama? Yeah, I think i think seven were so. Yeah, Skiyama's work. And yeah, there's not that much of it. um So it anytime Anytime that a movie stokes that out of me, I just think it's really, it's definitely something that I, and that's how I respond to it. It's just like, I want to learn it no more. And it was cool to see, and they didn't, they didn't get do too much on the actual like mechanics of painting, but they did some. And it was, I, it gave a good, I think you go to museums where you see these old paintings and a lot of portraits and they,
01:09:39
Speaker
it's very you'd be very quick to to look at them and say this is boring or this is just of a time and place and it's not interesting. ah But I think the more you ah experience I had this year when i when i so you know when I went to Amsterdam and I actually found myself doing the Rembrandt's house tour and they go through how he lived and his studio and how he made paints And how so it it allowed me to see behind the mechanics of why what he produced was interesting for a time and push things forward. And it's it's a whole bunch of information that you just don't have when all you see is a portrait. And I think this was kind of cool to see that to see that in a story and to see like, oh, this person didn't want their portrait done. And it took all this,
01:10:33
Speaker
It took this story to allow it to happen and to have this character evolve in many ways, both characters really. But the kind of, I think it's just because because of our relationship to the photograph now, um I think it's easy to look at portraiture and be like, oh, it's just, it's so you know, it's just it's with paint, but we just we we just took a click.
01:10:55
Speaker
and to get ah like a tortured story of the actual creation of a painting, and also her being like, yeah, this one this one sucks, we're done with this one, we're throwing this away. I brought two canvases, burned this one, it sucks. I appreciated that from the artist side of it, and just just the the story that led to the creation of a painting that is, I think, I have been very quick to dismiss when I've seen these things, and it just makes me more interested about the stories behind them all.
01:11:23
Speaker
and why certain things are the way they are in them, because it all has this weird meaning that you just don't get access to. um Yeah, and then, and I just wanted to give a shout out to the opening scene that I thought was a very, it the kind of uneasiness and just the the literal shaky ground as that boat is going up and down and all over the place and how there's a wave and, you know, the things we knocked in and she has to go in and get her paintings and how important that is. You know, like she doesn't even that and I at jumping into the ocean to get, to get those two canvases. And, and like, just, yeah, that, that, that's so much of what, of what she does compared to, yeah, someone who just like takes some, some pictures, not that there isn't craft in that anymore, but it just is a completely different relationship to what you're doing. um And how she did throw that one away and all she had was two and
01:12:17
Speaker
Yeah, just that I appreciated a lot of that when it came to the painting the actual creation of the painting itself and how it made a portrait interesting. And then, yeah, I love the scene where she is on fire and they are with all those women and similar to like what you said about um women getting together in Suspiria and how it it's maybe saying some things about that, Alex. This is kind of the reverse of how that support system can be so incredibly important um for a person's development. and right you know yeah So all those all those things, we have the, in a complete opposite to Suspiria, the opening scene for this with with the um with the class and then to the boat scene.
01:13:05
Speaker
And I love how she just walks, you know, like the guy's like, I don't know, go walk over there, take your canvases and just walk up the hill. Yeah, it was just like a lot of, ah you're not supported in this in this world from there. And it's very uneasy and to find that rock in the other character and then in the maid and then that little scene with the women all together at the fire. So just so, so, so, so, so good, yeah.
01:13:30
Speaker
Yeah, no, I love that. And I love what you said about ah getting to see the creation of a painting. I thought it was really fun as viewers that you could see that first painting um of Halloween and just in an instant be like, nope, that's wrong. She didn't get it at all. And, you know, I don't know anything about like art theory and the way that would let me analyze a portrait from that time period, but just from, you know, seeing the characters in interact from what we've been showing as viewers, you can agree with the other characters that like, nope, she did not capture her in that first attempt at all. You know, I get why she destroyed it um is a cool way to like visually show um what the characters are going through. Yeah.
01:14:19
Speaker
I agree with all that. I don't have anything to add. and then yeah I mean, yeah, it was every bit of this was interesting and emotionally affecting and were maybe, I don't, it did not drag in the first half by any means. It took kind of some like deliberate slow plotting and I didn't know exactly how it was going to come to fruition.
01:14:49
Speaker
But by the time you get into the second half, I feel like it kind of completely delivers on everything it's setting up and emotionally like reverberates in a way that I completely didn't expect. Yeah. yeah Alex, you had a you had a thing where we're where we're trying to rank these movies and I think you you wanted us to to talk about scenes or shots that that we... yeah like Tell me what your where your idea was there when when we can get into the rankings.
01:15:15
Speaker
Yeah,
Teaser for Next Episode's Theme
01:15:16
Speaker
absolutely. So I would love us to do a fun little ah dorky exercise where we rank our movies and as we rank them, I want you all, and I'll do it too, to close your eyes, think of one image from each movie, and then tell me what that image is and what colors you see when you think of that movie and that shot.
01:15:40
Speaker
And I can kick us off because this is my my idea. So I've i've had time to actually think about it. um So I would put Suspiria as my number three. And I still still really, really dug Suspiria. I gave it a four and a half out of five on letterbox. And I I think that resonates with my enthusiasm for it, um but definitely had, you know, thought it was a little thinly drawn. It was mostly mostly an audiovisual experience, as we're talking about.
01:16:10
Speaker
But when i when I close my eyes and think of Suspiria, I see that scene I was talking about where um the curtains are drawn and we're seeing the red and we're seeing that silhouette of Helena Marcos, the the head witch, and she's like breathing and it's, you know,
01:16:33
Speaker
It sounds like a corpse like rattling and um I just see that ghoulish red with her silhouette um and that's the most striking image there. um Number two for me is probably Portrait of a Lady on Fire because of how much I loved Ron. um And for this one,
01:16:54
Speaker
um
01:16:57
Speaker
I think what really sticks with me is that first scene on the beach that you were talking about, Kyle, right after she retrieves the painting. And something about that pink sky where um it just totally took my breath away. And whenever I think about this movie, there's lots of images that are going to come to mind. But um something about that that shot of Marianne you know walking along the beach for their canvas in that pink sunset in the background ah that really strikes a chord.
01:17:30
Speaker
um My number one is Ron, and my image and color that go along with it um are, again, that scene I described where it's at the Third Castle, Hidatora is descending the steps. You've got like the gray kind of mountains behind him and behind the castle. You've got the castle and the orange embers and flames, and you've got the red and yellow bannermen on either side as Hidatora is losing his mind and walking down these descending steps. um So those are my three, two, one, and those are my ah my three ah images and colors that come to mind.
01:18:18
Speaker
ah Kyle, what about you? Take us through it. Yeah, I mean, and number number three for me is Suspiria, and it is the stabbing scene, because it's all I think about, and it is the green behind her. That, because it's it's just, it adds to the psychedelic, whatever you want to call it, where, you know what I mean? And that's, you know, not to continue to talk about Zodiac, but I think those two scenes are so intimate. Like, there's no way that director wasn't thinking about that or influenced by that in some way. But that scene happens with just like nothing that's like muted, muted colors, like white shirts, you know, black coats, just ah it's not, nothing pops color wise there. But the green in Suspiria, and it's number three for me, um which I don't think is a shock to anyone. But you know, ah number two for me is Ron. And the the the scene that I think about is actually more of just a shock. And it's it's kind of before everything hits the fan.
01:19:12
Speaker
There's a shot where, uh, Herodotus, uh, at the top, um, of the shot. And then everyone is fanned out to the side in all their colors. Uh, and this like perfect, you know, we've, we've, we've gone into the wilderness, but we set up these, these little areas that we do our official business in and the way that everyone is sitting there, not the one where.
01:19:38
Speaker
where you see the three brothers and their and their colors, but it's like this very, they're they're fanned out in this way that's just so orderly. um that And then that order is obviously annihilated through the rest of the movie. that i that i and That's the one that I think of it. And the the first time that I saw it, and then the second time on this viewing that that it came out, I was like, that yeah, yeah. It just, it sticks with me.
01:20:03
Speaker
um And just because it's still green as well. Like there's still a lot of green in that shot um and I guess the other one is when Saburo When he falls asleep in the beginning like and he puts that little a little green shade over him I also think of that with the yellow surroundings in that a little moment in that square because it's such a like touching moment for where the movie goes Which is killing your you know, father going after it. We're not if you're Saburo, but um Yeah, and then Portrait of a Lady on Fire, there's,
01:20:39
Speaker
it's it's tricky. I think that's the one that I have maybe the hardest time thinking of one. I did too. one and it And it's also, and I think one of the reasons I'm having trouble thinking of the hardest is because the scene I think that is obvious is when she shows up in the green dress for the first time and it's not,
01:21:00
Speaker
and she's committed, Halloween is committed to being painted. Like given she's given that part up and she shows up in that green dress, which is such a, I mean, she's giving herself over to the painting of herself, but it really is more, it's like this very big step in their relationship. And it's the beginning of it becoming very intimate, I feel like. And I don't know, that's kind of where it really, you know, it's not, it's almost like she's not doing it for herself, Heloise, or she's not doing it for her mom. She's doing it for her soon-to-be lover. So yeah, that, I think that's the scene. And yeah, Portrait of a Lady on Fire is the one that I'm like recommending to people all over the place now. So that's definitely my number one.
01:21:56
Speaker
Hell yeah, I love that. Dustin, what about you? What are your three, two, ones and what are your ah scenes, colors that stuck out to you? Yeah, I would say three would be Ron.
01:22:08
Speaker
um I think when I think of like visually, it's not really like the the moments that come to me aren't really like because of the colors, but it's But the colors are a big factor of it. And it's really like any of those initial sequences in the beginning where the, um you know, they're showing the the men in the countryside amongst the rolling hills and that juxtaposition of them standing around their horses and the rolling green lush greenness behind them or in front of them rather um really kind of like sticks in my head and like
01:22:55
Speaker
the the placidness and the comfort of that, it serves as a big juxtaposition to like the chaos of the rest of the movie. Suspiria is my number two. And for that, it's really like the the visual kind of chaos of the coloring in that initial Sorry, my dog's in here playing, but we'll just have to let that go. oh The initial ah kind of chaos of that first kill and when, um specifically when the girl dies and she's dead and her body gets pushed through the the plate glass and the ceiling and her roommate runs down to the room or like to the foyer of the apartment building below her.
01:23:41
Speaker
And there's all these like jagged geometric shapes and colors and palette changes and things like that. um These are more like gifs than still imagery that kind of appears in my head. But I think like there's just so many different like visceral hits of color in that scene. And and then one would be Portrait of a Lady on Fire. And actually for me, it's it's picturing that the final moments of the movie when the cameras just fixated on Eloise and you're seeing her emotions kind of run through her. And in my head, I see her in the green dress in a very muted color, but I'm pretty sure she's not wearing the green dress, but that just kind of speaks to the impact of the green dress. But just, yeah, that emotional visceral scene is kind of what, what I think is going to sit with me for a long time with that movie. Yeah. What are we doing next? I think you're up next, Kyle.
01:24:39
Speaker
Yeah. Do you want to give ah give listeners a tease for what you're what you're thinking? Oh, yeah. i want i want to I want to get to Eternal Sunshine. I want to do i want to do part two kind of of of those of those coming of age ah those coming of age tales. I love it. Which I now have to look up to see what part two was. But I know it was Eternal Sunshine.
01:25:00
Speaker
um Oh, yeah. No, hold on. We're going to we're gonna have to edit some of this out. but um It was eternal sunshine. And I don't think, I want to say Justin hadn't seen any of them. That sounds right. That sounds right. Okay. I get so much slack for having never seen eternal sunshine. Okay. I got it here. Okay. What do you got? There it is. Part two. You've got Persepolis, boy, and eternal sunshine.
01:25:34
Speaker
Okay, sweet. Yes, that's amazing. i'm not So yeah, those are the three I've not seen. Boy, that's Taiko Waititi, which I, yeah, and I think there's a little, maybe a little autobiographical stuff in there with him. Eternal Sunshine, just to watch it again. I haven't seen it in a long time. Very curious to show it to someone for the first time. It's amazing. And then Persepolis, which is an animated movie about a character's experience through the Iranian Revolution. So ah yeah, and one that I think is,
01:26:05
Speaker
I saw that in the theater and I'm very happy I did. So anyway, that that's the tease. More coming of age and then one that a lot of people would say, that's not a coming of age jail, which is, you know, that's great. I love that.
01:26:16
Speaker
so Cool. Yeah, it'll be a timely viewing of Eternal Sunshine. It is 20 years old now, which is absolutely crazy. It came out in 2004, so we'll be seeing it on its 20th anniversary-ish. Well, I'm not shocked by that because I turned 40 years old tomorrow, so. Well, happy early birthday. Happy early birthday, man. We'll catch all zero of our interestors. We'll catch all zero of our on the flip side.
01:26:47
Speaker
yeah we got one we got one okay our