Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Coming of Age, Part 1
58 Plays2 months ago
In our inaugural episode, Kyle chooses the theme "Coming of Age" and we watch:
- Boyhood (2014) — 9:00
- Winter's Bone (2010) — 35:35
- Y tu mamá también (2001) — 53:53
---
Triple Take Cinema is where your hosts, Dustin, Alex, and Kyle, dive into three movies with a twist. In each episode, one of us takes the reins and picks a theme—whether it’s a wild connection or a subtle thread—and assigns three movies that fit the bill.
We all watch, and then the real fun begins as we dish out our takes.
There are no rules and no limits—just a wild ride through movies we love, movies we've never seen, and a few we hope to forget.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction & Podcast Format
00:00:00
Speaker
Yeah, every now and again the nose has to go straight to the air. Just straight to the sky. does The nose just, oof, it's so choice. Yeah, well welcome to Triple Take Cinema. we There's no host, we're all just co-hosts. We got Justin, we got Alex, we got Kyle. And yeah, we're just a bunch of dudes who like to watch movies. And every week one of us picks a movie, or three movies to go with. Hence the name, there's three of us, there's three movies.
00:00:26
Speaker
Who knows if we'll stick to that, but just relax.
Kyle's Coming-of-Age Picks
00:00:28
Speaker
So yeah, I am known throughout the annals of history and time and my friends to have a big soft spot for coming of age tales. Maybe it's because I'm you know in a perpetual state of arrest and development myself, but yeah, there's something that really really hits for me on on this this genre. So I wanted to, the the three movies I picked to go, I picked Boyhood um by Richard Linklater, which I think really,
00:00:57
Speaker
really did me did me well this this time around. And then I also picked E2 Mama Tamben by Alfonso Cuaron, which I had not seen in quite some time, which I think is a very interesting take on the coming of age tale. And then I picked Winter's Bone, starring Jennifer Lawrence. And for me, I think that coming of age is a very It's a weird genre. I think it can be defined in a lot of different ways. I think it's kind of in the eye of the beholder a lot of the time. And which character is actually coming of age and what that looks like and what qualifies as a coming of age tale, I think is an interesting question.
Defining Coming-of-Age
00:01:32
Speaker
I think it's pretty elusive and slippery, you know, when you really get into what movie counts as a coming of age tale. And I think the classic is, you know, a tale of young boys or young girls or
00:01:44
Speaker
anyone Anyone in between that is, you know, going through something in their youth. And I don't always think that the youth aspect is, I think that's too, doesn't doesn't do enough justice to when a person can sort of change or come of age or evolve and in in some way, ah be it through at a dramatic event or otherwise. So anyway, yeah, that's that's kind of what coming of age means to me. what a when when When someone says coming of age tale, Dustin, like what what do you think?
00:02:13
Speaker
I think for me, it's and the easy answer is like someone's growing up, like right like I'm coming over the atrium. I think of my personal story, my dad passed away a month after my college graduation, and I feel like I kind of like rocketed to adulthood in dealing with the aftermath of his death. So by default, coming of age to me is like, oh, a kid growing up. But I think really what it means when you see it manifest in movies, I mean, I think with these three in particular, it
00:02:46
Speaker
if you want to boil it down, it really is a kid growing up, because the main characters are are kids. ah But I think coming of age can also be somebody maturing in a way. So that really can happen, you know, at a very young age, as is more stereotypical, but also I think can happen at a much older age or a middle age. And so it's really just kind of like maturing, not unexpectedly, but maturing through adversity, maybe a little bit, at least when it comes to being on film. Cause typically nobody wants to watch it coming of age where someone just like matures easily. And usually you don't mature unless you're like experiencing something. Yeah. Right. Like yeah i would love i pregnant I would love to mature easily. That sounds great. That sounds like a dream. I don't know if I want to watch that movie, but I'd like to experience that myself. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So, so that's my rambling. What, what it is for me, how about you Alex?
00:03:44
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, you touched on a lot that that comes to my mind when I think of coming of age. I do, in that kind of granular way, think about it as the transition from ah adolescence to adulthood, you know, and being like kind of this liminal moment where you're in that transitory state, and you're, you know, it's about that coming into yourself, there's a there's a self actual Jason there that's happening, whether that's with confidence or worldview, or you know, I think a lot of times that has to do with, you know, not just thinking about who you are as an individual, but starting to think about, you know, how can I care for other people? Like, what is the collective good? I think, I think a lot of it's about coming outside of yourself. But yeah, for, for me, I think there's also that trauma element to where, you know, doesn't that to necessarily be big T trauma, you know, it can definitely be something that just
00:04:42
Speaker
Challenges a character in some way or makes them rethink their perspective. ah But I do think there has to be a low point to, you know, kind of prompt that actualization that I was talking about. I think that's a good way of putting it like the the low point kind of thing. Yeah.
00:04:58
Speaker
Yeah,
Exploring 'Boyhood'
00:04:59
Speaker
definitely. Well, and also, okay, so you two, I was very excited to find out that neither of you had seen Boyhood. I feel like we should start with Boyhood because it seems like it's kind of like a Keystone piece. Well, before we even dive deeper into that, let's just really quick do Ron Robin of both, I think, A, what we've seen and what we had, and then what order we ended up watching these in. But Kyle, I'll let you start with that.
00:05:22
Speaker
but Okay, yeah. i hadd I'd seen all three of these before. There's a part two of the coming of age tale episodes that we'll get into where I have some blind spots, but these were all... I think the big thing for me is I'd seen i've seen all of them and I had seen them a while ago. So I hadn't seen Boyhead in a while. I've had a kid since then. I hadn't seen U2 Mama Tiam Band in a long time. I mean, this is like 10 plus years, I want to say, for all these movies, maybe longer for some. And I watched Boyhood.
00:05:47
Speaker
And then I watched boyhood and then I watched boyhood a third time because I could not stop because it got me. so It just, I just kept going. It was just like, and at the end of every night, I was like, yeah, you know what? I'll just watch more boyhood. It's fine. and Yeah. And then I watched winter's bone. Uh, and I was actually able to show that to two friends, um, as well who had never seen it. And then I, uh, I watched E2 mama, Tambian, uh, last. So that was kind of how it, how it all worked for me.
00:06:13
Speaker
that I hadn't seen any of these. I was familiar with all three, and I watched them in the same order, though I will say I started Ituma Matambian and watched, I think, 20 minutes of it. And then I snapped because I wasn't liking it per se, I wasn't loving it, but I stopped and I, not immediately, but I then the next day watch Winter's Bone before I came back to Ituma Matambian. I also feel like I was eating when I was first watching it. And because it was subtitled, like I couldn't really like, it's something we can talk about on this episode and in future ones. I have no problems with subtitled films and watching foreign language films, but sometimes I forget about like how much more engaged I have to be to watch them when I. Yeah, dude, it's real. It's very real. Like I cannot vision. You have to be seeing like what's in the frame and then the text at the bottom. It requires like,
00:07:11
Speaker
You know, you're flicking back and forth the least I am. And I'm a like, I watch everything with captions. Like, so like that's not super hard for me, but it's like, I can't even take my eyes off the screen and like check my phone without like lose, like not fully missing things because it's in a foreign language. Like, uh, so that was a bit of, it's been a while since I've like watched a,
00:07:35
Speaker
foreign language film, not in the theater, where you're obviously a captive audience kind of a thing. So how about you, Alex? ah Which ones have you seen and what order did you watch these in? Yeah, I had actually seen two of these before. I saw Boyhood back when it first came out and I saw Winter's Bone in college probably around, you know, 10 or 11 years ago. And yeah, Itu Mama 10pm was the first new one for me. And I watched it in the exact same order. though I went Boyhood, ah Winter's Bone, Itu,
00:08:06
Speaker
uh, which was a nice progression. I feel like we went from the like, you know, kind of whimsy of boyhood to the bleak reality of winter's bone. And then I feel like E2 Mama 10BN had a bit of both. ah So it was kind of like a nice marriage of both of those tones. But yeah, I'm, I'm very excited to get into boyhood. Uh, Kyle, I hold you partially responsible for my love of Linklater and introducing me to the Before Trilogy when we lived together in South Korea.
00:08:35
Speaker
know And yeah, maybe a good way to get into this is how this boy had fit into your understanding of link later and where do you put it? You know, in his filmography. Oh man. Where do I put it in his filmography? That's a question. I think like, Oh man, that's tough. It's, it's really, I, so there's a couple of things.
00:09:01
Speaker
There's a couple of things that that i that i that i that I really like to sink my teeth into. I think boyhood, if I'm if i'm being very cinephile, if I'm being very film student nerd, boyhood as as a technical achievement and a committed like to to the commitment of a project, not only to see it through, but also, I don't i haven't like watched many interviews with Richard Linklater. I don't really know like his vibe personally. I kind of think I do based on his movies that he's made.
00:09:30
Speaker
but to even and also to be able to work with some of those actors and actresses for that amount of time kind of speaks to like someone who's a good dude or at least at least something nice to work with on an artistic level. But just to be able to keep that project together yeah for that long yeah is shocking. and know so There was a One of the trivia things I was reading about it, so the sister in that movie, I think her name's Sam, yeah his but is played by his daughter. And halfway through shooting it, she didn't want to do it anymore.
00:10:02
Speaker
Yeah, she because she was going through puberty and she was like, I don't want to do this. Like, I'm just I mean, I think part of it was going through puberty. And I imagine just like she just said she didn't want to do it. And he had to like convince her to do it. The other thing I thought was interesting in terms of the the structure and commitment is that Link Ladder, who I think it's given the amount of times I've worked together, him and Ethan Hawke are like good friends. Straight up told Ethan Hawke, if I die, you have to finish this movie for me.
00:10:31
Speaker
Um, and then I believe it was either in an interview was talking about how wild it is that the producers at New Line or whatever production company, uh, paid for it, like had to like squirrel away like 400 K every year over a decade and like, just kind of be like, yeah, let's, that's for a big project or we're working on something. It'll be a big deal. It's gonna be a big deal.
00:10:54
Speaker
Yeah, so yeah, I agree like that is is why well what's even not I guess unsurprising is I guess he's working He just started another movie. That's like gonna be 20 years in the in the making wow Within those two or three years like that's a new project that he started to tackle So is it is Ethan Hawke also the godfather of that one where he has to carry on? Maybe, but they're probably both getting at the same age that he probably needs to tap into someone younger ah to to be the steward should something happen to him. Sounds like his daughter's got to step up. Sorry, sis. Yeah, I mean, and so that, that to me, like where I put it in his filmography,
00:11:37
Speaker
It's tough man because I love the before trilogy and I almost think of it as like one, one. I think it's easy to think of as one piece. Um, I, I have a hard time. I love them and they mean so much to me, those movies and I, you know, days of confused is very good. And there's, there's other movies in this filmography that I like a lot, but I think as a technical achievement and also like.
00:11:58
Speaker
the actual movie itself, but the the mechanics plus the movie itself to me kind of elevate it to the top spot. And I think it also is very, it pulls on a lot of autobiographical stuff for him, kind of, you know, growing up in Texas and all that, as a lot of his movies take place there. And I, to be able to,
00:12:16
Speaker
You know, when I was watching it this time and I, the big, the, you know, the big difference for me was that I was focused on the boy's journey when I watched it the first time because that was, that was my life. Not that I was in Texas and all that, but like I was the boy, right? Like I see that. I see that. I see that in myself. I see that growing up. And this time I was, I was entirely focused on the parents.
00:12:39
Speaker
um I was entirely focused on the parents. And the thing that really stuck out to me this time upon watching many things there, but like something that just got me continuously. And I think is, it's kind of like the the the work of um of a master when it comes to this type of film is the incredibly subtle passing of time.
00:12:59
Speaker
um yeah And, and how when you're focused on the boy and the growing up, it didn't really, well, first time I watched it, that subtlety and kind of the.
00:13:11
Speaker
the pain and the joy of that passing of time and how it is what happens. Like it is what all parents say. And frankly, it's what anyone, they don't even have to have kids. But at some point you're like, wait a second, where did the last 10 years ago? Where did the last year ago? Like these moments of realization of, oh shit, I'm gonna be a senior in college. I'm gonna be, you know what I mean? Like, am I about to turn 40? You know what I mean? Like, where did that go? And how it kind of sneaks up on you in that way. The way that that is expressed visually in this film is it's just, it's like hard to put into words how well it was executed and edited and put together so that there's just these subtle differences. It's just a little facial hair. It's a little haircut. It's a little change of face. It's a little language. It's, so you know, like it was just from, from, from beat to beat, from point to point as they move on through this journey. And you know, yeah, I, that's just like, that's something that really stuck with me. And then how it's very mundane and it's somehow,
00:14:12
Speaker
It elevates mundane-ness to a level that I don't have another reference point in film for. you know and And the way that they talk about it, you know the like the the Blue Whale conversation, um the conversation that he has about the country song and how the country song is just plain, everything's simple, no big deal. And how every single scene are just these It's just like what happens in a life and yeah, there's big moments too. I don't want to say it's just all mundane nonsense, right? like but yeah But even the big moments are grounded in a, in a, in monotony, like, yeah you know, the,
00:14:48
Speaker
the stuff with her first or her second husband when he starts becoming abusive and stuff. Not that that's not insignificant or anything, but like there's nothing Hollywood about that. There's nothing like theatrical about that in a way. So it it it perhaps like a relatability that I feel like I don't see, you don't see that often, if ever. I mean, I'm sure there's other movies that we can get that vibe from, but like, I'm hard pressed to think of another one. Like for me, this movie, I i loved this, absolutely loved it. and And I was familiar with it and I was like, why have I not watched this? And then I'm like, well, it came out 10 years ago. And I feel like it wasn't what I expected it to be.
00:15:36
Speaker
in in multiple ways, like I i thought it was gonna be, I thought it was gonna have more of a story per se, like, right? Like, but I'm like, I'm glad it didn't. I feel like i it felt more humanizing to me that it didn't. um And it felt, I was talking to somebody over the weekend about like, would I have liked this movie as much if I watched it in 2014?
00:16:01
Speaker
And and I don't know that I would have like I felt not that I would have hated it or anything I would have been impressed by it and I probably would have enjoyed it i I like kind of like the soundtrack even though like there's some like there's cold play in it which is a little rough but like there's there's enough of like I'm like man if I would have seen this when it came out like I probably would have enjoyed it I maybe would have revisited it but I don't think it would have hit me in the same way even on the second viewing as it did with this one it's i'm I like was trying to do the math. like I graduated college in 2009, and by the timeline of the movie, I think the main character is going to college, starting college in 2012. So there's like a seven-year difference there, give or take. and
00:16:44
Speaker
But there was enough overlap that it felt nostalgic enough to me. like it It's the first time I remember watching a movie and feeling a nostalgia from it that actually feels real. Like some of it was like, oh yeah, like I remember laying in my bedroom playing Halo with a friend. like yeah And the way they use those products is amazing, right? Like the Gameboy, the next, like just and just, yeah. there' just yeah Yeah. So it was just like, for me, it was very like, Oh, like this makes me, this makes me like miss my dad. Like, this makes me like my parents divorced when I was three. I was <unk>m unfortunate that my mom remarried to a great guy who I think of as a second father, but like,
00:17:32
Speaker
and and I got to see my dad I think maybe more than they got to see Ethan Hawke in this movie but it's still like my dad was still kind of the fun guy who would take me out and we would bum around and do stuff and it was like damn this just like feels it doesn't feel like my life but it feels like a life I could have lived in a in a much more realistic way than like, oh, I'm watching a superhero movie. Like, it'd be great if I was a superhero kind of a thing. Like, yeah, I feel that watching some movies would be cool to be this action star. But like, this actually feels like, no, like this very much could have been my life sort of a thing. And what's really cool is that I also had that same feeling that sounds like both of you guys had on that initial viewing of seeing yourself in that journey.
Performances in 'Boyhood'
00:18:22
Speaker
I think a big part of it are those context clues and the facts that we are in the same broad age range as Mason, where, you know, seeing him watching Toonami and Dragon Ball Z as a kid after school is like immediately deeply relatable. So you have the cultural context clues, but you've also got the like universal life experience of, you know, growing up in America, like I remember going to construction sites with my friends and like,
00:18:51
Speaker
fucking around and drinking beers and, you know, breaking shit. And just little, little moments like that, I feel like we're just so, you know, resonant because they were easy to imagine myself in. Whereas stuff like the, you know, that felt a little bit more dramatized to me was the, you know, the abusive second husband subplot felt a little bit more Hollywood, more fictionalized. I felt like I had seen that story in movies before.
00:19:21
Speaker
where the other more mundane stuff um had like a newness and a uniqueness to it that, you know, that really captivated me. I'd love to hear what you guys think about the performances, because that really elevated this for me on this watch, where I really liked it my first watch. ah This second watch, I absolutely adored it. And I think it had to do with, kind of like you, Kyle, I really resonated with Ethan Hawke and Patricia Arquette's characters.
00:19:52
Speaker
You know, the first time I got really choked up, shaken up by Patricia Arquette's monologue about this being all there is and that big scene where she breaks down at the end ah when Mason's going out to college. But there are just so many great acting choices throughout. I love how Ethan Hawke, you know, still gives his character that kind of punk rock swagger, even when he's become more of a straight lace, you know, button down guy by the end. He still has mannerisms that let you know, like, yeah, he's still the same guy. But I'd love to hear, ah Kyle, what you thought of the performances, you know, after seeing this movie a bunch in the past couple of weeks. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I definitely adored them. And I kind of i understood, it's funny, like, I, Ethan Hawke's progression is is amazing from that, like, and and it's also, it's just kind of amazing to think about how they're also not entirely acting because they have aged those years.
00:20:50
Speaker
like they they themselves are are they understand the passage of time more than just someone taking on a character and I thought that like I would just love if I you know had ever gotten into acting in a real way that would have been like such an interesting project to take on right and and actually the the performances that kind of the performance that stuck out to me in a new way this time because I again I love that Patricia Arquette the that model all all the stuff like frankly how she there was the first time I watched it and she yells at um her daughter who's going to the new school and it's like I'm just here now I'm just at this school like this sucks and she yells at her daughter that it like also sucks to be you know have her head smashed against a wall but she does in his way where she's so at the end of her rope and like her even her yelling feels like exhausted
00:21:39
Speaker
And the first time I saw that, I was like, oh, man, I don't know if she like really handled that line or delivered that line in the best way possible. And now that I'm older and seeing this movie, I'm like, nope, that's how that line would have been delivered in real life, because you there's no way to say that eloquently. There's no way to say that like well. It's just this giant up, up, up, just comes out of you like, yeah, this it sucks for everyone. It sucks for me. And you know i and like you kind of lose it. So the moments of losing it, I thought, I thought were fantastic.
00:22:08
Speaker
And the, but again, to go back to what the, the performance had kind of stuck out to me this time. It's just funny that she didn't want to continue doing it is, is, his is the daughter and how, and like her, her progression as this sister um and that moment at like the graduation where she's like, good luck. And then they're, they're out at the bar and she's talking about how college is great, but she's giving and like throughout the whole movie, she's giving her mom a lot of shit about just being carted around as a kid.
00:22:35
Speaker
I just kind of thought her performance was like had a had a lot to it that I didn't really see the first time, probably because I was so focused on Mason and his parents, which is like what I was thinking about myself. And I had, I've told her sisters and you know, like, yeah, I it's taken me a while to sort of appreciate some of the stuff that they went through. And I just thought that that one, that one really stuck out to me. But yeah, I thought Ethan, Ethan Hawke's like, Patricia Arquette's final monologue is great as well. But Ethan Hawke's like the last conversation he kind of has with Mason at the you know at the gig where Jimmy's there and he's playing when he's talking about women and girls and you know if it's this is going to happen and you're going to go through this like that that that I thought was just very very very well executed and felt like a very real
00:23:21
Speaker
type of, you know, I haven't been able to be your father, I've started this new family, I've i've sold your GTO, all this stuff, like it's i'm like I'm not perfect, but I am having this very real conversation about life and women and relationships, and you're about to go off, and that just felt extremely authentic, um and and justified with where and everything had come from. So the performances, I just thought, I don't know, I can't think of one that was really all that weak when it comes to it. um Yeah. For me, I mean, Ethan Hawkes, like I mentioned before, like I'm a sucker for movies that like have like positive father figures and stuff, just because I lost my dad, not early, but far earlier than I would have preferred. And so that kind of like
00:24:08
Speaker
always hits me. I will say this, this gives me like, made something you said, Cal made me think, but you know, you focusing more on the daughter's story and things like that. I read ah a letterbox review that I think it was a good review. I mean, I think they gave it like a three and a half or four and um out of five and but their one critique was one that I laughed at and I like kind of didn't disagree and it was kind of a tongue-in-cheek critique but like there was something along the lines of you know four of years watching Mason grow up and he just turns into like a photo class like uh existential like mushroom kid like and I was like yeah I mean I kind of like I mean I do feel like that
00:24:58
Speaker
I don't feel like his path in growing up was per se like a prototypical of of the archetype archetype of a stoner kid, for lack of a better word. I wouldn't call him his character a stoner kid, but he's like in that you know hemisphere kind of a space. I would much rather see that than like him be a jock or a nerd, but I feel like For me, like I wasn't a stoner kid. I was kind of a nerd, but I was not the nerdiest kid. Like I always felt like in high school, I, I mean, like my junior and senior year of high school, like I hung out with the band kids and I did not play an instrument. Like I, I did not have, I had my friends, but I did not have like a clear, distinguished click that I fit into. And I've never really seen a movie define that well of kids who were like, literally like.
00:25:54
Speaker
not bullied, not like popular, not unpopular, just kind of like hovered through that was me in high school and so I was a little bummed that like oh yeah here's like prototypical like oh if you're thinking about life you're a stoner like kind of a thing Again, I don't think that ruined the movie for me or anything, but reading that review, I'm like, yeah, I don't disagree that this is just a little cliche that that's the role that he like carves out for himself. I mean, I like that at the same time. I'm kind of like, yeah, wait until that kid at 18, what he was. You know what I mean? The movie's not actually over, right? He has to continue to grow up. Oh, for sure. For sure. But just like the scene, I mean, it was a good scene, but like the scene of him like in photo class and like, I'm just going to go brood in the dark room, which the instructor clearly makes obvious that like nobody is fucking using at all. And he's like, I'm going to go brood in the dark room, which don't get me wrong. Like I think about when I had photo class and like the dark room was fucking dope.
00:26:56
Speaker
I would love to hang out in a dark room or like old school photo development is fun as hell in my opinion. and So I get that. But that was that was my one. I mean, I wouldn't even call it critique, but like observation, straight observation kind of a thing. It's funny you you had that read of it because that was something I I think I really enjoyed was how and maybe this is my my bias as a former pseudo stoner kid.
00:27:25
Speaker
but i I enjoyed seeing Mason like adapt the like iconography of different high school cliques since he was growing up. Like when he was in the darkroom scene, that's very much like a moment in time that you're seeing, like all these snapshots where he's got the earrings in, he's got his hair and like the full surfer, you know, he's trying on these different personas and looks cause that's what we, we did in high school. That's what you do when you're an adolescent, since you try on all these different, you know, suits and see like what fits, what feels like me. So I think what made me
00:28:00
Speaker
appreciate like that it was a little bit cliche was that you then see him kind of move beyond that. And like, sure, it's a different kind of cliche when he's sitting in the diner with his girlfriend and talking about like, man, it's going to be so great at college where we can just stay out till 4am and, you know, do what we want. Like, that's, you know, that's so archetypal that it also, you know, feels a little trophy. But again, he moves beyond that at the very end when he has the the Big Ben's hike and he's, you know,
00:28:30
Speaker
like actually engaging on an existential level with you know the the things around him. And they just show that through the filmmaking and you know all these great vistas. But yeah, i it i it's really interesting hearing you know that letterbox review and that that take, because that was something I definitely latched down to. But it was like, oh, it's you know it's cool that we're seeing Mason like try on different high school personas as he tries to find out who he is.
00:28:59
Speaker
Yeah, and I think if you're, you know, like, just speaking to that review, I think kind of similar to maybe something like, like you said, Dustin, where you were expecting more story, you were expecting more, you know, things to kind of happen. And I think that, you know, there there can be a way to view this movie where you you gear up for some kind of big, you know, big story, big narrative, and then it just kind of takes you on this this float down this life um and doesn't really focus on a lot of those big moments. And in fact, like, kind of intention leaves them out.
00:29:28
Speaker
And, yeah you know, like, there's a couple of a couple of a couple of scenes or lines and I just wanted to like highlight one is that is that scene where they go and you know they go to some construction site or some building that isn't being built or being built there is some kids's house yeah yeah family's house which I'm like what fucking world do you live in where your parents are like.
00:29:46
Speaker
Yeah, sure. Girl, hang out among the dangerous construction tools that the construction people just fucking leave out. like yeah Nobody's gonna fucking steal them. And just spend the night there. What the fuck? i was It was very funny to me that I was like, this is camping? I guess Texas is weird. um but Something I thought was very interesting in that scene is is one, how they're all talking about like, oh, who did you have sex with? Who have you, you know, what what what play have you gotten?
00:30:14
Speaker
and they all go around and Mason says like yeah this happened and it happened you know some other girl in some other town no one knows her but it really didn't have this kind of feel to me of that he was lying and it also didn't have the feel like you know when he's like I don't care if you guys believe me or not that kind of felt like he was talking directly to the viewer of the movie But it, because it's also like, Oh, well, this is a classic coming of age tale. It kind of feels like your first sexual experience would be a big fucking deal. But you know what? We didn't talk about that at all. We didn't, we didn't, we don't have your first kiss. We don't have your first sexual experience. We don't have any of that. We talk about like, Oh, do you have a girlfriend? Kind of. Have you kissed? No. Do you even talk? No. Do you like her at all? No, I'm not really. We have nothing in common. That's kind of all we get.
00:30:57
Speaker
And I, I, like, I kind of liked that a lot. And another thing about that scene that kind of killed me, but also speaks to like, Link Ladder's, uh, Link Ladder's ability to be subtle and mundane was that entire scene. I'm just expecting something horrible to happen. Oh yeah. yeah just like Especially when they pick up the goddamn place and they're throwing it. I'm like, someone's about to lose a finger. Shit's about to load down. I was like watching through my fingers. Shit.
00:31:23
Speaker
Nothing happens. yeah it They just have a good night. Doing like the most like obnoxiously like adolescent boy bullshit possible. Like let's drink beer, talk about fucking and throw fucking razor blades. At the wall. but yeah yeah like like fucking And Rose, I thought that was like extra realistic in how like not cool it was watching them. racist yeah The blades of the saw blades at the right was like they were standing like three feet away and like ah but when they see it they're all like yeah that's awesome. yeah I can attest to this in college we like got a cork board and we got a bunch of
00:32:13
Speaker
uh ninja throwing stars from the mall yeah and we took turns like throwing them at like handmade dartboards and we did not look cool we looked exactly like nason and his friends yep very just it was it was very realistic in the moment that yeah they all thought it was the fucking coolest thing on the planet but it's like any outside observer is gonna like look at that and be like This is stupid. Yeah, thank' good this is yeah this is real. no donas but they're Yeah. Okay. And then, and there's, there's two more, like, so obviously the editing, the whole way it was put together, like blew my mind, but there's two shots that I, that I think really stuck with me as like. Filmmaking shots in this filmmaking shots, for lack of a better term, we'll come up with something better than that in the future. But.
00:32:59
Speaker
And they both involved Patricia Arquette. And the one is where she's collecting the kids from the abusive alcoholic, you know what I mean? And for a for a lot of it, not all of it, but for a lot of it, the camera is from inside the house at her and she's very clearly not wanting to enter the house. And just kind of that, like, for me, it really just highlighted that moment of the danger that she feels going anywhere near there and kind of this big separation, but the need to go in and kind of like all for the children to come out and figure out how to extract them without it getting bad and you know like the camera switches to outside the house and her perspective when he's trying to like get her to come in and you know like in any way he can I just I thought that that was a very very affecting way to to shoot that scene and and really build up that that big moment of drama frankly uh in a movie that is otherwise you know doesn't have a lot of those uh and then the other one
00:33:57
Speaker
is in that is in that Patricia Marquette monologue scene right towards the end right before Mason goes off to college when she has downsized everything and she's in her apartment and she's sold it all and everyone's leaving and she has the emptiness freak out kind of you know kind of monologue and there's a couple of shots where Mason's in the other room and it It just, is it it backs up and you see the apartment and you see her way off to the left. the they own there nothing There's nothing in center other than like just the empty, you know, the the the kitchen apartment we're all very familiar with, right? Like if everyone's been around a million of those apartments.
00:34:36
Speaker
And just how there's nothing it's like it's it's one of the it really visually for me kind of captured that empty nest feeling of not only I'm not even in the middle of my own empty nest I'm like to the side and barely even in the shot and then there's just nothing and it's not a house and it's not big it's not grand it's not some big end of life thing it's like The downsizing and then all the, all the monologue really, really hits on that too, but it keeps, it goes back out to that shot a couple of times that I just loved. Like, I just love those, those camera movements. Yeah. I'm glad you articulated that because I had an emotional reaction to that scene where it was like, man, I really feel bad for her character right now for the fact that she's had to do this downsize, like.
00:35:21
Speaker
I did think you know it it it looks visually like a sad scene and that hit me on a gut level, but that's nicely articulated with the framing, with her being so shunted to the side. And then there's emptiness, yeah. Yeah.
Transition to 'Winter's Bone'
00:35:35
Speaker
well I was trying to think of a good segue, but we should move into to Winter's Bone. I'm going to try and do segues for everything in every episode. I'll be the segue guy, and I'll try and like'll i'll roll on screen with the segue. No, that's not the right segue. I'll try and in think of something very obnoxious. So speaking of empty nests, how about Do squirrels, bird nests? I don't know. But how could they, if they're getting skinned like they did in Winter's Bone? That's a terrible sight. I'll cut that out of the way. No, please leave in. Leave that in. Solid gold. Do not. Yeah, I mean, well, so Alex had seen it. So you had not seen Winter's Bone as well, Dustin? I have not. You've seen that? Yeah. So what was gi me your well what did what was your take on Winter's Bone? What
'Winter's Bone' Initial Impressions
00:36:25
Speaker
was your general, your feelings? You know, like, this was a one.
00:36:29
Speaker
where I talked about boyhood, how i you know I was familiar with all three of these. I feel like of the three, boyhood was the one that was maybe, even though it wasn't exactly what I expected, was the one that was like pretty much in the realm of what I expected. Winter's Bone, I feel like I had the perception that it was like more of an action movie, or maybe not An action movie isn't right. Maybe it's more of a thriller. It definitely is a thriller, but but it's not, it's not a thriller first and foremost. It's like not, it doesn't have a good thriller, like resolution. ah to You know, the core mystery is, is, you know, adjacently solved, but I mean, she gets, she, she.
00:37:15
Speaker
I kinda knows what happened to her dad, but never really knows. um So I definitely thought it was, I knew it was like a dark movie, but I thought it was gonna be like, this was a very mundane way of putting it, but like, I thought it was gonna be a little lighter. like So I didn't, yeah. And and i I liked it. I don't think it's one that I ever will feel compelled to rewatch.
00:37:43
Speaker
um and that's not because I feel like the it was so visceral that it like affected me so much and it weighs on me and I don't need that emotion like I found it again I'm glad I watched it uh it was a what I consider a blind spot I know it was like Jennifer Lawrence's like breakout role and stuff like that I do like you know John Hawks is great like I'll I enjoyed the the the acting and it but i kind of found it a little boring like i didn't find it like super compelling in a way because i yeah i'll just leave it at that for right now yeah i mean alex what do you got yeah so i i feel you on the boring and i don't say that as a criticism of the movie explicitly like i i like this this is my second viewing of it and uh
00:38:39
Speaker
you know i I barely remember my first watch, but the way that scenes play out is kind of repetitive in this is how I describe it, where once you know like what the stakes are, what the tension is, that in her trying to find her father, she's going to have to violate this code of silence you know that's upheld within the you know the drug-dealing community in the Ozarks.
00:39:05
Speaker
um And every conversation is going to have this like undercurrent of a threat of physical violence. There's going to be someone like saying, like, nope, you can't talk to this person. And there's a saminess and a repetitiveness to that, which I think is intentional. I think it's part of the story and it's part of the struggle that Roo, is it Roo, the character's name? Uh, Rhee. Rhee. That Rhee is going through where she has to like constantly just come up against these walls and Yeah, I thought like that was that was compelling, but I can see you know how you would find parts of it boring because that saminess can wear on me a little bit as I was watching it. And in compelling enough that, like again, like I'm glad I watched it, but like i I'm hard-pressed to see a scenario, and I gave it four out of five. like I'm hard-pressed to see a scenario where I'm like,
00:40:00
Speaker
i I feel like there's something more emotional for me to get out of this movie or like something I can enjoy on a repeated viewing or is there you know is this idle background movie or you know and those for me are 99% of the time
Themes in 'Winter's Bone'
00:40:18
Speaker
action movies of like a background movie or just like i want to re-watch something stupid uh this is not a stupid movie in a good or bad way so yeah it it just it was kind of like When I think of the setting of this, the the Ozarks and the drug dealers and stuff, that piece of the puzzle is more interesting to me than the piece that we're seeing here. And not that I don't want to see the piece of her story, but I would love to have seen more context of like, I mean, I understand why they didn't
00:40:54
Speaker
So what happened to the dad for storytelling purposes and whatnot, but like that would have been more interesting to me or to like understand because it, and I understand it's deliberately opaque what happened to him. And I kind of fit the puzzle pieces together, but I'm also like, well, like what, you know.
00:41:13
Speaker
tell me more about the sheriff and like his relationship with the the thump guy and the fact that like how did her dad, how was her dad dumb enough to like not know that the sheriff was in cahoots and that if he started spilling his beans to the sheriff, the sheriff was just going to go up the chain of the bad guy command and be like, you know, your boy's ratting out on you kind of a thing. So like some of that stuff just kind of lost me in it.
00:41:40
Speaker
Yeah, and I will say it was interesting. this i yeah I agree with what you're saying, Alex, as well. like the yeah it was It was a little bit intentional to kind of have the that sameness and scene play out.
00:41:54
Speaker
um At least it felt a little bit intentional. And that to me is kind of like, that's the world. that's that this is this This is this level of poverty. This is this level of like, I don't know, how how does one break themselves out of having to take care of their kids because their mom is off their their rocker and doesn't talk anymore and the dad's dead.
00:42:11
Speaker
And like these things happen where you're going to lose your house and you got to prove to someone your dad died, but you think just like the inertia of that world, I kind of felt in in all those scenes and like, yeah. And also in that world where there's that much inertia, there's always just like a little bit of threat of violence that's always there. You know, there's always, you're always on the edge and and in a way. My memory of this movie was that it was more impactful than it was for me this time. And I think part of that, and this also kind of speaks to, I think watching these three movies with a level of intention to try to also come to this podcast to talk about coming of age sales with a theme. And we can get into this in the E2 Mama Tamben as well. But like, I think what I really enjoy about coming of age sales is how more than more than other genres,
00:43:02
Speaker
more consistently anyway than other genres. My viewings of movies with three, four, five, six, seven, 10, 20 years in between them can be so much different it seems like with the coming of age genre than a lot of other genres. Do you know what I mean?
Evolving Views on 'Winter's Bone'
00:43:19
Speaker
Like super bad, super bad always speaks to me in the same way and I love it.
00:43:24
Speaker
But you don't consider super bad a coming-of-age movie. I do. Well, not a coming-of-age drama, I suppose. Yeah. yeah no yeah I mean, it it is. And and it it certainly is. But like I get the same thing out of it every time I watch it. And it's amazing. You know what I mean? But like right when I watched Boyhood, I had totally different focuses based on where I'm at in my life. And when I watched Winter's Bone this time, I kind of felt a little bit of that boringness or whatever, a little bit of that just marching forward, the plotting.
00:43:50
Speaker
I wasn't shocked by this abject poverty. I wasn't shocked by this world, this listing. I wasn't shocked by the nuances of this world. I wasn't shocked by the fact that like, you know what I mean? Like I just have, I know more about the world now than I did when I watched this the first time. And so a lot of these things just weren't shocking. but been waiting Yeah. yeah the law and i was You're making me feel like, you know, this came out in 2010 and I feel like, I don't want to say this aged poorly. I don't feel like there's anything in it.
00:44:18
Speaker
that when I say, when I hear the phrase age poorly, I read it as like, oh yeah, if I watch that now, like I'm actively seeing something that's very offensive that I didn't see that. Propic thunder. Great example. Thanks. Very poorly. I don't think this age poorly in that regard, but I don't think it's aged particularly well. Like I don't, I don't think that boyhood's great because there are multiple stories being told and you can fully dive headfirst in any of them or multiple ones and come back on a repeated viewing and see like you pretty much have like who you empathize with changes and things like that this and not that there's anything wrong with like single focus linear storytelling or anything like that or or a single story to tell but there's something about this movie that just feels like
00:45:13
Speaker
Oh yeah, this would have hit harder in 2010. Like if it if it came out today in 2014, not that this, you know, it would have been told more gruesomely or something, but it's just like, yeah, like there was just a different It's just a product of its time in a way that I wouldn't normally use that description. like I'm sure we'll come across other movies that I will call a product of its time, but this one just feels it feels very 2010 to me. like if you If I didn't know it was came out in 2010 and I watched it and someone's like, that came out in 2010, I'd be like,
00:45:49
Speaker
I get this. like i could totally This feels like a movie of that era from 2007 to 2014 where I feel like there was a lot of like these movies where you were seeing things, dramatic portrayals of life in places that you knew existed but you didn't really understand.
00:46:12
Speaker
Um, and, and, I mean, I never watched Ozark on Netflix, but I feel like the Ozarks, you definitely need to do that. So I know, but I mean, I think like that, you know.
00:46:25
Speaker
but Southern poverty thing, not that it's been overdone, but in the time since this movie, and maybe this movie partially ushered that in, has become more of a setting for fiction and nonfiction, frankly, that it it is maybe a little numbed in perception of it for you, for me.
00:46:46
Speaker
then it would have been, I can imagine like this would have a year out of college if I'm like, damn, this movie is super intense. yeah And it just didn't hit quite as hard as it would have back then. No, I think I think i agree with with both of those perspectives that, you know, as an expose of this slice of rural poverty and of showing a lifestyle that, you know,
00:47:11
Speaker
in in the 2010s, people weren't as familiar with. I think, you know Kyle, it's the fact that you know work we're all you know more familiar with different slices of society. I think collectively, you know like you were saying, Dustin, we're more familiar with with these types of environments. The one thing I appreciated on this watch was you know not the shocking like, you know oh, we're going to like really you know challenge your perceptions of how people live.
00:47:40
Speaker
But the texture and the shading, it gave to all these individual lives. And in a movie that's so sparse with dialogue, that's pretty sparse with story, there's so much that just gets communicated by the set design, by the Miz and Sen, by the shit that you see in people's houses. And as she was going through all those characters' houses, I found myself trying to put the pieces together of what their life you know, would be like outside of the frame based on, you know, the food that they were eating or the the baby bottles that were stacked up and, um you know, so I think the set design really does a lot of legwork to move beyond that, like, you know, we're going to expose this into, we're going to really give you a textured look at what these people's, you know, lives were like. And I think the other part that I also latched on through this time
00:48:35
Speaker
was, um I said this in my letterbox review, but how kind of nimbly the movie moves between different genres and kind of cribs different elements from them. There's a lot of film noir in the detective mystery that that she's unraveling. You know, it's clearly a coming of age story, but I think what I liked the most was the moments where it became a Western. And I think those are the moments where it felt the most timeless and less rooted in that, you know,
00:49:05
Speaker
contemporary perspective where you've got the first scene where the sheriff rolls up and the the neighbors are looking on and you know they're really tense and menacing and like that felt very Sergio Leone like classic spaghetti western to me. There's a stand up with with teardrop and the sheriff where they're looking through the the reflective mirrors in the car you know again the staging there was very classic western even the shot where a teardrop comes to the rescue and saves the day but when she's being tortured, the garage door opens up and he's square in the middle of the frame, like, you know, classic Western hero coming to the rescue. And I like the way that it used that iconography to recontextualize this world and, you know, kind of be like, well, here's what a contemporary Western looks like. So I think those are the elements like the
00:49:59
Speaker
the set design, the staging, and the way it cribbed from, you know, that genre that jumped out at me most of this time. Yeah, and just just like, and also in general, just pretty great performances across the board, I would say. Yeah, yeah for sure. Thank you. They really, yeah, they really embodied all of that.
00:50:19
Speaker
Speaking, I want to do two, I had this book when I was like in high school that was called, Hey, it's that guy. It was a little tiny. It was like three by four book and it was like character actors. um And I gave a little bio of them and like movies you would see. And there was two I had in here. Well, one, I recognized the sheriff, Garrett Dillahunt. I, I love him because he, he has just like a a face you kinda wanna punch. He like looks like a douche and he plays a great douche. i He was in a TV show I never watched on Fox called Raising Hope. That was like a comedic role for him. But I always think of him in the movie The Road with Viggo Mortensen. and He is one of like the cannibals that's hunting people and the one that they like encounter. oh that way He always jumps out at me for that. And then the ruler one where I was like, I fucking know that guy. Where do I know that guy from?
00:51:14
Speaker
Kevin Bresnahan, who was Little Arthur in this, so the the guy in the crack house, which isn't really narrowing it down in this movie too much. Which meth house are you referring to? He was with the group when they like when she finally met, uh, met thump Mason and stuff. But he wasn't, you were talking about super bad before he was in super bad. He was the guy, he was like still not of his head and made Michael Sarris sing these eyes for him. And I was like, when I finally they figured that I was like, ah, I knew this guy looks familiar. So that was really fun to like recognize, like
00:51:58
Speaker
Because I wasn't able to figure out who he was for a while. And I was like, am i just does he just have a face that looks familiar? And then I was like, no, that's where he is. That's amazing. Thank you for taking us on that journey that I would not have known yeah anything about.
00:52:12
Speaker
It's funny. He was just so strung out that I had like, I just, and I just, I think that was, I was like, oh, that's super bad guy. like got just Yeah. No, I, and and just, yeah, john this, this was my first kind of introduction to John Hawks. Way back when, I mean, it may be really his first kind of breakout role and as well with Jennifer Lawrence, but.
00:52:32
Speaker
man because of this movie every single thing john hawkes does i'm like yeah i'm interested i want to see what's going on here it's like dude has a lot of range and that is a terrifying character and just the constant key bumps of of what has to be just absolutely terrible cocaine and i can only imagine in this world that the cocaine is not quite pure but uh but yeah uh just Yeah, it was it was interesting to again watch this so much later, you know I'm um and and just have a different a different take on the whole world and I think it is Yeah, it hasn't aged well. It's kind of like you remind when you were talking I was kind of like, you know if they made war games the movie this year Yeah, yeah, this movie kind of like I don't care. This is not i'm not interested in these stakes You know what I mean, but war games when it came out in whatever 1984 uh insane and like hits on a stress of of the time and hits on a stress that exists in that it's like guys that
00:53:23
Speaker
We just don't have any more. We're like, yeah, yeah, we got nukes everywhere. We could die at any moment. The world's bucking us instantly. Like, yeah. but War
Introduction to 'E2 Mama Tambien'
00:53:30
Speaker
games today would be like a mobile app that someone like, so so somehow starts like texting with the Whopper computer who gets a random text that's like, Hey Dustin, this is June. Do you want to play a game? Like one of those phishing texts that's out there now.
00:53:48
Speaker
Yeah, it's just chat gpt going wrong. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, uh, well let's let's shift over to it to mama tandian The oldest movie in this crew because I guess we watched them in a reverse chronological movie that reverse chronological order Because they came out in 2001 Uh, yeah, why did you pick this one?
00:54:11
Speaker
You know, I picked this one again, like kind of going back to movies that had a bigger effect on me when I saw them first. Uh, and this is going to be, I would have seen this movie for the first time in like 2009, 2010. Uh, and this 2009, how old were you in 2009, 2009? 26, 27. Okay. I'm like that.
00:54:33
Speaker
I'm not a math guy. What year were you born? 1984. So I didn't agree to do this podcast with someone older than me. i like yeah I'm turning 40 soon, maybe. You know, YouTube opportunity also like, and just to give, just to give a little more, more background on myself and my, my, whatever me getting into film, essentially.
00:54:54
Speaker
I ah left graduate school and I moved to New York City ah in and a bit of a coming of HGL myself, guys. And there's the classic the classic mid-20s. Classic mid-20s trauma, moved to New York, figured it all out or not. Had to go to career to really cap that one off. But before I, during that time period, I When I lived in New York, I went to a lot of movies and I had access to a lot of movies in the theater that I just never had growing up in Rochester, New York. I had some, but not the same way. Like I never really understood this whole like, oh yeah, this comes out in New York and LA until I lived in New York. And I was like, man, there is just, and then like, there's art houses that you just, that like there's art houses that are three miles away that are playing a completely different lineup. And they they have eight different movies. It was like amazing. So I kind of like,
00:55:45
Speaker
really really got into it starting there. But then I worked for a friend warehouse where I had a very monotonous job where I worked alone and I could listen to podcasts. And I listened to about eight hours of film spotting a day until I listened to every single episode that had ever come out at that point. It was like 300 episodes that I churned through. It was amazing. And E2 Mama Chan Band was a big big, it's in that pantheon on that on that podcast, all those things, but like they they really liked it. And it's a movie that I watched and I kind of had a, I don't know, I had an experience with as a much younger person, that again, seeing it now, I was a little bit more focused on her than I was on the on the boys. And like, the boys behavior was so overtly childish.
00:56:32
Speaker
that it was like to the point of like, this is a little like hilarious how much Quran is hammering home, how immature these two guys are. right And also I had not seen this movie in so long that I totally forgot that she has cancer and dies at the end. Spoiler alert.
00:56:49
Speaker
Like I didn't even remember that at all.
Revisiting 'E2 Mama Tambien'
00:56:52
Speaker
I remembered all the crazy sex stuff. I remembered all the like, you know, just the insane young boy energy that that's on display. And that's kind of what i what I thought about. And like, I was more interested in in them as friends and their journey as friends that I was, and she was kind of a vehicle for that. And in this one, I was much more interested in her story. And then sort of toward the end, I realized I kind of had an inkling of like, oh, there's something coming here that I've forgotten about. And and yeah, yeah. And at the end, it I did. So, right. When that cheer drops. Yeah. And I had spoiled that for myself because I read the plot of this, not
00:57:28
Speaker
Like a year or two ago, I read the plot of this movie on Wikipedia, which is a bad habit of mine, but like movies that I'm not sure I want to see, but I think I'd be willing to see, even if I know the plot spoiler, I hadn't known that. And what I didn't know watching this was that that reveal didn't come until the very end.
00:57:47
Speaker
Yeah, that was that was a surprise. So it was still a surprise for me because I knew that. But I assumed that she was going to tell them at some point in their journey together, and she never did. And I was like, oh, did I just remember this? Like, is that not the case? And then I got that at the very end. Yeah. So I mean, the end the short answer is I picked this because like I hadn't seen it in a while and you two hadn't seen it. And I think in general, like Coron is a very interesting director, and I think does interesting movies. And I think the way that this unfolds with all those little offshoots where they talk about like these pigs and you know like this person who was killed. All those things are very, there's it's a very unique way to make a film and set a scene and and make a make a movie that i that I just think even not even considering coming of age stuff is like interesting that I had totally forgotten about but really I just like it was a movie I wanted you two to see.
00:58:38
Speaker
and and ah in all the blind spots that that existed in in whatever the genre was so and and movie i wanted to to watch for the first time in a long time. um yeah i was i was not liking this until i finished it like i was really struggling with it and in some of it was like.
00:58:57
Speaker
I mean, I can't think of a movie where I've watched guys piss in the toilet more than this movie. And those scenes that I noticed like halfway through where they go to a hotel and Diego Luna's character is like going to piss on the toilet and that's after the narrator talks about how there's like different things that they each do that they don't know about.
00:59:20
Speaker
and he lifts the toilet with ah his foot at the other guy's house and whatever and then I noticed him lifting the toilet seat but then he says something about how oh there's piss all over this toilet this is totally random aside but he says that and then he ends up pissing but he like steps on the toilet when he's pissing and I'm like a who the fuck does that and b if there's piss all over the toilet why the fuck are you doing that That bothered me. I think, I think he had to do that because otherwise the seat was going to come down. Oh, maybe that makes sense. I think he, I think it was such a shitty hotel that like, it was one of those things where he, that's, I also was like, what the fuck is this? Why is he doing that? And then the way that when he moved, removed his, his foot and it just came down. But I agree. It was like, this guy's a psychopath. Yeah. Yeah. So I think like the.
01:00:09
Speaker
this was one I'd heard of. I heard that it was, you know, a well-regarded film. I had seen the clip of her, of them dancing at the very end on the beach, like very briefly, like when she hits the jukebox and like great scene of her like dancing at the camera. I've seen that because I've seen that in like compilation videos of like dancing and movies and stuff. I had no idea that it was going to be I'm going to use the term, but it implies I'm offended. I'm not really offended, but I had no idea it was going to be as vulgar as it was. It is so vulgar, which is a little jarring and like to your point, Kyle, like
01:00:49
Speaker
does a great job at underscoring how immature these two kids are. But like pretty much at least in today's lens like goes overboard with it to the point where it's like farcical and like kind of makes it very unrelatable to me. Like I was not a kid who was like, I didn't I lost my virginity to my wife, so I was not a kid that was in high school, in college, whatever that was talking about. Who did you fuck? like We're fucking them? Let's go lay on the diving boards and like masturbate together while we're like talking without giving you what I have sex with. I just got to point out there was that camera shot when they come into the water and you get it from below the water and it's like this beautiful artistic depiction of the most vile shit and I feel like now there's this movie in a nutshell. Yeah when that happened I'm pretty sure like my reaction was like yeah.
01:01:46
Speaker
so I but I but I did like I've I liked it more at like once it all resolved because it became like I finally understood what was going like the rationale behind at least how I interpret it behind the narrator and giving all these like deeper stories especially the pig one in particular like suddenly going down that path and it it And then like learning their development that like after this happened, you know they left Lucia there. They went home. Their girlfriends came and broke up with them. They got different girlfriends. They felt like that was like the end of the friendship. Then they they ran into each other and like just decided to get coffee because it was less awkward than not doing it.
01:02:38
Speaker
and then I thought it was kind of amazing like brilliant how like at the end when they're saying goodbyes like the narrator's like yeah like you know the one guy said he'll take the bill uh they said goodbye they never saw each other again and then It kind of broke my heart. And then it cuts back in and like Diego Luna's like, we'll talk soon, okay? And it's like, I can probably think of a dozen friendships I've had in that same regard that were people I was so close to and that just faded out without any real fanfare.
Themes in 'E2 Mama Tambien'
01:03:12
Speaker
And I think that
01:03:14
Speaker
the narration like The narration that was happening was to really underscore that this experience was so much a punctuated moment in time and that everything you know outside of the here and now there's this like when they're driving down the freeway and they talk about like, oh, if they had been here 18 months earlier, there would have been overturned birdcages in the road and dead people to the side and then they see the the memorials. It's like, yeah, like where we are in our individual timelines is a product of a much grander scope and
01:03:51
Speaker
Like, it just, it it felt more poetic to me in thinking of like, just appreciate the moment you're in because a year from now, like this could all feel like a completely different life that you're astonished you ever lived. And seeing how the two of them engaged, how they were addressed and in their demeanors when they were at the coffee shop, I think really underscored that point of like, oh, like this, this, I mean, in a way, this was like the most literal coming of age movie of these three to me, that it just very much was like,
01:04:27
Speaker
Yeah, they had this very defining experience of having this threesome. And suddenly, like, their lives were forever changed, not necessarily for the worse or anything, but like, that was the fork in their road that put them down their separate paths. And it was very clearly done almost too clearly in a way at the very end of that that running thing.
01:04:54
Speaker
No, I agree with all that. You know, I think that that juxtaposition is this movie's like secret weapon that it uses again and again, where you're seeing these scenes of just, you know, pure frivolity, pure like debauchery. And then the sound cuts out and you get the narration where it's like, you know, like you were saying, Dustin, they're driving down a road. ah It's really an accident. This this guy died.
01:05:21
Speaker
you know, it's capturing the fleetingness and the transience of these experiences. And I agree that the cartoonishness of like, you know, how corny and stupid they were at times was like, you know, a little bit hard to relate to, but I think it captured, you know, just that emotional reality of having these experiences when you're on the c cusp of adolescence, adulthood, and you know, how they can just be lost like that. And, you know, that even while you're having these experiences, the rest of the world isn't like stopping for you. You know, while you're like messing around with your friends and like getting drunk for the first time or having whatever like kind of awakening experience you might be having at age 17 or 18, you know, people are still dying. There's still political upheaval.
01:06:14
Speaker
You know, there's trauma that informs all of the frivolity because they give those little like background snippets and there there does into like the various fucked up family dynamics that all the characters have. And to me, I think that's perfectly captured in the scene where, why am I blanking on Luisa? Luisa is calling ah her, you know, her boyfriend, her ex and she's in the phone booth.
01:06:42
Speaker
And you've got that gorgeous frame of the reflective part of the phone booth is showing Tancho and Julio playing pool. um And she is like sobbing and getting increasingly, you know, desperate and they're having the time of their lives, like they're laughing, they're joking.
01:07:02
Speaker
I thought this movie lacked subtlety in a lot of places and I could have used less of that narration. I think it was, there's a clumsiness to it. oh yeah You know, I it kind of pushed me away from really loving it. I really, really liked it. I'm super glad I watched it, but it's not definitely not my favorite of the three, but that scene I thought was perfect. Just showcasing that theme visually yeah of those two worlds. Well, even just, I mean,
01:07:31
Speaker
I don't, I'm guessing this isn't what you meant by clumsy, but like even technically speaking, the narration was kind of sloppy in the way it was executed, which was a little jarring at first. Cause I probably count on one hand the number of times that like, I thought my audio screwed up because everything went completely silent and there was a pregnant pause yeah and then the narrator cut in. And I think it's also like.
01:07:57
Speaker
I don't, I don't care enough about this to like, really go through the full thought exercise. But I'm guessing that if you would have taken out the narration entirely, ah that it wouldn't really have like, it certainly wouldn't have changed the story per se, but like, I don't think it would have like really impacted how, at least for me, how I interpreted it or anything too heavily. I feel like, I feel like the,
01:08:27
Speaker
All that the narration did was like provide a boulder punctuation point to me of like, oh, it's all about this moment. But learning that she died and like where the two of them are at 14 months later or whatever it is in the diner, that was and also did that for me. It was kind of like one or the other would have sufficed for it. I think the more interesting one is to show their evolution as characters and people and have them in the diner. But yeah, if you take that narration out, like it's not changing anything that the characters go through. It's just adding a layer of but like perspective that isn't really necessary
01:09:12
Speaker
especially is, is less relatable. I think some of the political stuff that I was talking about to people that aren't from Mexico or aren't familiar with Mexican political history and things like that. Like I can see, I mean, I'm assuming he didn't make this intentionally for like Americans obviously. so But it's, it's a,
01:09:35
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, i i I see what you're saying. I guess i I think that I don't necessarily think I would think differently about the characters, but I do think if you lose that narration, you do lose a little bit of that. You lose a little bit of the punch of that scene that Alex was was highlighting where life is going on. your Your tragedy doesn't mean that that's the whole world and like shit. And just because you're also having the time of your life doesn't mean there isn't also horrible shit happening as well. And I think that that's kind of it's It's, again, who knows? and And maybe it's just what I'm taking from it. But that that is an interesting it's an interesting aspect to have in a coming of age tale where the whole genre is kind of like, nah, it's about this person's becoming. It's about this person's evolution. It's about this person. It's very hyper-focused on it's all about you, which is kind of how coming of age feels and how it feels to be the young adolescence, right? It is all about you.
01:10:33
Speaker
And so i I do agree that like it actually, i I would be interested in watching this without any of the narration to see, and i would i would I would like to men and black myself to be able to actually do that and then and then see it for with the narration for the second time. but I think maybe it's kind of a subversion of the coming of age tale to bring those things in. and And perhaps that was some of the point of bringing those some of those other things in. So, I mean, I do see what you're saying. It was jarring at times. And it did actually, I was kind of surprised how long it took me to get into the movie. yeah like it i it was it did not It was another movie that didn't really track my previous experience with it.
01:11:15
Speaker
And I had to kind of really sit with it. And the subtitles made that more like, all right, I have to actually really be engaged and and get to what this movie was trying to to to kind of accomplish. and And really, I think... why it spoke to me back then and and still it to a lot of ways speaks speaks to me now is just the sadness of like, a lot of coming of age feels like we're getting to a better place. And no that final scene doesn't feel that way. You know, and like, we're we're at another place, but we're definitely not ah necessarily a better place and how you can
01:11:51
Speaker
Yeah. Just kind of abandon and not even necessarily abandoned in a very intentional way. Like, like, like you said, Dustin, like you have these great experiences, you have these great friends and then life just kind of finds a way to get between things and you're off on different paths. And then at some point you connect or you don't connect, but they just kind of fall away and with, without ceremony, you know, even after big, big climactic events, like like this trip. And so, and how they had like, the like just how they, their, their friendship seems so.
01:12:20
Speaker
in the beginning and through most of the movie, even through even through them both revealing that they've been screwing each other's girlfriends multiple times and how that affected them so much, even though they're both pieces of shit or just youth. you know how i kind of and i you know I just have long standing friendships of of people that I grew up with and how Who's girlfriends, you scared? I mean, no, yeah but but there is, you know, yeah a long enough timeline, there's some cross-contamination. And and and it it was kind of interesting just to see they go through that experience and then they also have the, you know, the the threesome and the the and all that together.
01:13:02
Speaker
and how that they survive that on the trip but then they don't in life you know there's a part yeah naturally that's that was a very hard move for me to accept yeah well and yet i understand it well yeah and what you said about like how even after this like very like life-defining, definitive trip that they went on with a very, I mean, I would assume a threesome with an older woman would be like a very, like, at that age, like a huge milestone in your life and how, like, you would think something like that, even, I mean,
01:13:46
Speaker
putting a different lens to it like they're seen when they're kissing and like the level of intimacy that they have holding each other's heads and stuff like there clearly was like an emotional connection I mean even before that there's an emotional connection but there was like an emotional sexual connection there but the fact that they go home and it all just fizzles out like again to me just underscores the like yeah like you can the shows of things are not certain you know nothing set in stone like no matter how
01:14:25
Speaker
you know everything just changes day to day like you you can get as poetic or unpoetic as you want about it but like that I think is what brought me back in liking this movie is just like this idea of like yeah like even like the most momentous important like experience of your life up to that point it still doesn't necessarily like portend your expected outcome from it like you you're in the Yeah, I don't know. I thought that was a very pronounced way of putting it. and ah just I think that end scene resonated with me more than anything else. in terms of like yeah like i I can't tell you how many people I was close friends with and I've gotten coffee with them or gotten a beer with them and thought like maybe
01:15:15
Speaker
more would come of it and it just fit in. And it is it's it's crushing in a different way when friendships fizzle out like that because you don't usually realize they fizzled out until it's long after they fizzled out when you're when something triggers that memory. It's much easier when they break. it's yeah It's much easier to understand when they just are like, oh no, fuck that guy.
01:15:40
Speaker
I mean, like that something happened and something went down and it's just much easier to understand on a narrative way as opposed to I spent like two summers hanging out with this person. And then it just, how did it like, I had a bad, I had a best friend growing up who moved like a mile away. I could have just rode my bike. And yet somehow he went to a different middle school and like, we're still friends now, but he was the one who was my best friend who just, you know, it just kind of, it's, it's, yeah, it's kind of, it kind of makes you wonder, like these two characters, like,
01:16:09
Speaker
you know, what, as they grow in life, I mean, thinking about where they would be today, 23 years later from the timing of the movie, like what they would think of when they think back to that friendship, right? Like what is the most, we don't know how long they were friends, but like when they reminisce about that friendship, are they thinking about her?
01:16:33
Speaker
or are they thinking about the time leading up to her? Are they thinking about their time with their girlfriends who were best friends? like That whole dynamic is kind of interesting to think about. and this This felt like a sending off of youth as opposed to a coming of age, I guess is, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. cause and That's a good point because we don't really get We didn't get anything after that that transition, right? It's all up to that moment and then seen, which is, I mean, I guess that's, well, no, ah we kind of get, it's kind of similar with Winter's Bone, but Boyhood, we're watching, you know, all the way through, like any place you could have ended Boyhood would have felt like it was ending one chapter going to the next. But and yeah, I, ah this was an interesting view for me because I can't,
01:17:24
Speaker
think of a lot of movies where like I was like, oh, die I love this. And then at the end, not that I was like, that's amazing. But like, it came together for you in a new way. like yeah I think it gained, you know, on that scale of five stars, I think it gained back a star that it had lost halfway through. ah By the way, it was wrapped up, which was yeah a pleasant surprise.
01:17:46
Speaker
No, that's fair. I mean, just hearing, hearing you guys talk about it and talk about that, that sadness, that, that fleetingness of, you know, of this experience ending, ah wistful is the movie, is the word I keep thinking about when I'm thinking about the ending of this movie and how there's just this deep melancholy about that experience being over, about this chapter in their lives being over and then kind of, you know, being forced to confront these other parts of their reality.
01:18:18
Speaker
And I was also thinking about how much they're drifting apart may or may not have been informed by the experiences we see them have through the movie, specifically the intimacy of that threesome.
01:18:31
Speaker
And you know whether that was just too much emotional intimacy, because that's something I think you know you can also relate to with friendships, where you have a friendship that gets like really, really close. And like there are elements of you know maybe codependency. Maybe you're spending too much time together. you know I think when you're when you're jerking off on parallel diving boards, there's an indication you might be spending too much time together.
01:18:57
Speaker
But I do wonder if that drifting apart was almost a relief because they had become so intertwined, you know sexually, emotionally. like i I bet it was you know probably just easier to part ways than to reckon with that experience and then go, where does our friendship go from here? Well, and also like you know friendships, like especially those ones that can go into that codependency or or can get towards the know negative side of of relationships, be it sexual or not.
01:19:28
Speaker
they can be the kind of thing that, not even necessarily through anyone's fault, but like, they can be the kind of thing that hold you back, right? um They can be the kind of thing that you need to take take a break from or shuffle, like, you know, get get away from to be actually get to a new place in your life. in in In a way that like Jennifer Lawrence's character in Winter's Bone cannot, she cannot get away from that world, right? It's all consuming and there's nothing she can do, she's tied down.
01:19:53
Speaker
And she can't she can't just shrug it off. The world will always be with her unless she makes some crazy dramatic you know runs away from her family, from her kids, from her you know siblings, all that. She has a great line just to interject that I love where she's like, I need the weight of you on my back.
01:20:09
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that's such a nice line. Yeah, I know. Yeah, absolutely absolutely. That is a nice sal line. And that's, that's just something that those two characters in, in Itumama, they have the luxury of being able to do that, of being able to have those experiences and then leave them in the past to find, you know, to get serious about life and get degrees and get jobs and whatever. Yeah.
01:20:35
Speaker
Well, should we wrap this up by each giving a a ranking of our least favorite to our most favorite of these three? Yeah,
Ranking the Films
01:20:42
Speaker
yeah link good I think we should. I also think i I clearly have to get a letterbox account so I can yeah start. Yeah, that's this. This is very clear. This is this is very clear to me. This is your assignment. This is my homework. Yes. i must sorry Excellent news. Very happy yeah that you're you're awakening.
01:20:58
Speaker
I will do yes. I've i've come evaded on this podcast right away. I'm ready for everyone's ears. I'm doing it. I mean, for me, clearly, this was Boyhood, Winter's Bone, Itumama. In order of choosing favorite to least. Okay. Yeah. yeah yeah Favorite to least or just, yeah, that's, I mean, as I mean, I literally watched Boyhood three times because I couldn't stop and I will watch it again and again.
01:21:21
Speaker
Yeah. As I, as I age, but I agree. I won't, don't think I'll necessarily return to winter's bone or eat two mama for quite some time, if ever. So that, that kind of that, yeah. but So for me, yeah that's my ranking. boxs how about you and I think I might have the same ranking. I think I go boy out at the top to winter's bone to, uh, eat two mama tambien, you know, lights to love all three eat two being the light end of the spectrum a boy had being the loved, but.
01:21:50
Speaker
Yeah, I'm glad that I checked E2 off my blind spotting list. It's one that I feel like has just been a movie that cinephiles love and love talking about. So it was, it was nice to be part of that conversation. Yeah. but For me, I would say, you know, boyhood easy. I struggle with two. I actually feel like I'm going to have to go down the route of E2 moment time beyond for the mid one.
01:22:14
Speaker
Just because I feel like, I mean, I'm not in any rush to revisit this, but this is when I can see myself rewatching at least once. and It it's strikes a nostalgia.
01:22:30
Speaker
nerve for me in the same way that Garden State does, which Garden State was like very much like my coming of age movie of like I that came out I think in 2004 or something like right when I was graduating high school and I recently rewatched it like a year or two ago and it like really I didn't hate it as much as I thought I was gonna hate it after loving it for so long but it was also like yeah this feels like a movie that came out 20 years ago and feels like, you know, Dustin who had a live journal and like wrote about his feelings. Yeah,
01:23:10
Speaker
but yeah so and then Winter's Bone, I feel like, again, I'm glad I watched it. I didn't hate it, but I feel like no desire to come back to that. Like, I feel like there's probably instances of a similar thematic story that have been told since that movie came out that are more appealing to me, both in terms of, you know, environment, setting, characters, things like that. So that that would be my order. Yeah, I think that that makes sense. Even as I was, even as like,
01:23:44
Speaker
Alex was saying what he was doing, I was like, ah, I don't know about two and three. Two and three is just tough. It's a tough shakeout on that. boy Boy, it's clearly the one, but it's tough. Well, what are what are we doing next?
Next Episode Preview
01:23:54
Speaker
I think for the the next one here, I think I'm up, right? I believe so. You are indeed. Yeah, so we'll we'll tease that here. Maybe I'll cut this out, maybe not. But and we're going to do John Carpenter's Apocalypse trilogy, which is The Thing.
01:24:10
Speaker
Oh god, this is gonna get edited. It's The Thing and Prince of Darkness and In the Mouth of Madness. So I believe the thing is like 82, Prince of Darkness is Mid to late 80s and then in the mouth of madness is 1992 I've seen all three The thing is in my top four movies easily. Oh another letterbox thing. You have to pick your top four Kyle Which ones which ones have you guys seen of those three the thing? Yeah, i'm I'm super stoked for this because I've only seen the thing and
01:24:52
Speaker
ah In the Mouth of Madness has been on my list for a while as someone who likes Lovecraft-inspired shit. I know the reputation that one has among among carpenter fans, so yeah, I'm stoked for that. And Prince of Darkness, which feels like a lesser-discussed carpenter, at least yeah in my experience. i think I think Prince of Darkness is legit underrated. there's I'm excited to talk about this with you guys, because like I think think my first time I saw a Prince of Darkness, I caught it on Sci-Fi channel in high school or something. And there's a particular recurring scene, which youll by me saying recurring, you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. that
01:25:33
Speaker
terrified me as a kid, because it just felt so weird and and like just unnerving. It's not like outright terrifying, but it just unsettled the hell out of me. And Prince of Darkness just has some great practical effects. Also has a alice Alice Cooper as a homeless person that gets some shit happens to them, which is pretty cool.
01:25:59
Speaker
I mean this this this this to me is like this is one of the reasons that I'm excited to be doing this with the guys because those are just two movies I would never watch on my own accord and that's that's not a state that's not a statement on those movies it's more of a statement on me and just like where my natural yeah nations go um and so yeah that's exactly with these three coming of age movies like they were all shit that like I was never like oh hell no I don't want to watch that but I never just felt compelled to do it so Yeah, that's a great guy with some comfort zones, boys, and yeah you some new shit. I love it.