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Female Directors
25 Plays3 months ago
Kyle takes us through three highlights from modern female filmmakers.
- Little Women (2019) - 5:52
- Promising Young Woman (2020) - 34:06
- Booksmart (2019) - 1:14:51
Triple Take Cinema is where your hosts, Dustin, Alex, and Kyle, dive into three movies with a twist. In each episode, one of us takes the reins and picks a theme—whether it’s a wild connection or a subtle thread—and assigns three movies that fit the bill.
We all watch, and then the real fun begins as we dish out our takes.
There are no rules and no limits—just a wild ride through movies we love, movies we've never seen, and a few we hope to forget.
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Transcript
Introduction and Film Overview
00:00:02
Killer Kyle
Welcome, welcome, welcome. to triple, triple, triple, take, take, take, cinema, cinema, cinema. My name is Kyle Brown. I'm here with Alex and Dustin, my co-hosts in crime and in watching movies. We have decided to eschew our manliness and talk about three movies about women made by women for women, but also for everyone because they are fantastic and at the very least thought provoking.
00:00:33
Killer Kyle
The three movies we are watching this episode, and frankly, we've watched them already, spoiler alert, is Little Women by Greta Gerwig, Promising Young Woman by Emerald Fennell, and Booksmart by Olivia Wilde. How you doing, gentlemen?
00:00:51
dustinzick
Doing well, doing well.
00:00:54
Alex
Looking forward to talking about these movies.
00:00:54
Killer Kyle
Let's see.
00:00:56
Alex
I have some thoughts about all three. They may be a little bit spicier for promising young women, but we will certainly get into it.
00:01:02
Killer Kyle
Ooh, we are a pro spice podcast here on Triple Take Cinema. Ideally three hot peppers to keep it on brand as much as possible.
Kyle's Experience with 'Little Women'
00:01:13
Killer Kyle
um Yeah, so I'll give my little history with these movies. I had seen Booksmart many times. I love Booksmart. I have seen Promising Young Women, but I had not seen it in quite some time. I watched it when it came out during the pandemic and then had not for for a while. And then I had never seen Little Women.
00:01:30
Killer Kyle
by Greta Gerwig, but I have celebrated a lot of Greta's catalog, despite not being a huge Barbie fan. and and so I really wanted to you know see what it was all about. It did get some rave reviews and all those things. so ah so yeah and I watched them in this order, Little Women, Promising Young Women, and then Booksmart at the end.
00:01:50
Killer Kyle
ah let's ah let's
00:01:50
dustinzick
Have you had you seen any other adaptations of Little Women?
00:01:55
Killer Kyle
No, Little Women is one of those things.
00:01:56
dustinzick
OK.
00:01:57
Killer Kyle
it' little This is another reason I wanted to watch this because Little Women is one of those things. because i mean I grew up in a house with two older sisters and it's just it's something that I've heard of for literally my entire life and never once engaged, never once engaged with.
00:02:10
dustinzick
Mm hmm.
00:02:13
Killer Kyle
never once was, you know, I mean, it's not titled for something that a young boy of a certain age would would be interested in. And then maybe by the time they are interested in the title, they're like, well, I don't know if that's, I don't know if that's my bag. So ah yeah, ah so I just, it's just one of those things where I was like, well, it's Greta. And so I really wanted to to just keep doing that and and give, I find her to be a very, at the very least, a thought provoking filmmaker and someone that makes movies that I want to talk about.
00:02:41
Killer Kyle
Um, I watched it with my wife who's read the books and seen many adaptations. So she, you know, had a lot of feelings and a lot of thoughts, um, mostly related to its differences between them, and the book, which I was pleasantly blissfully ignorant of. Um, and so, yeah, I, I not, I do. And you guys read the book or done any, done any of that, have seen any adaptations.
00:03:02
dustinzick
I have seen the 1994 version Oh, God, this was probably like ah in 2019.
00:03:07
Killer Kyle
Oh.
00:03:11
dustinzick
I was, as as well as you, like blissfully unaware, not blissfully, just unaware of, I had heard of it, but had no interest in it.
00:03:21
dustinzick
And when my wife and I started dating, a local art house cinema had a screening of it. I mean, a local movie theater had a ah screening of it, and she was insistent on going, because she loves the 94 version.
00:03:37
dustinzick
um And it's kind of this was like five years ago now and it's kind of become like an Ongoing joke that my my response coming out of it was it wasn't as as bad as I thought it would be or no No, no not as bad. It was better than I thought it was gonna be it was my review of it
Alex and Dustin's Take on 'Little Women'
00:03:53
dustinzick
Like I thought it was fine. It was enjoyable enough um but yeah, that was my only real familiarity with Little Woman was seeing that version once and I had never watched Promising Young Woman, and I saw Booksmart in the theaters when it released, but that was it for it. I hadn't watched it since. Alex, how about you?
00:04:13
Alex
Yeah, um this was my first exposure to Little Women in any format. um But it's definitely a movie I have a lot of nostalgia for. We've talked before about movies getting the theater bump, where you kind of have a richer experience if you see it on the big screen.
00:04:32
Alex
And this one definitely gets the nostalgia bump because it's just a part of my story now where I saw it on a second date with my wife and I picked it having no familiarity with the story, but had liked Greta Gerwig's other stuff and was pretty blown away. I'm going to get hyperbolic as we talk about this movie, but I think it's probably one of my favorite films of the 2010s.
00:04:59
Alex
um So it was really nice watching this maybe for the the third time for for this podcast. And ah Promising Young Women was also a COVID watch for me. I remember enjoying the technical craftsmanship but being slightly annoyed by some of its choices, ah feelings which were compounded on my second watch, and Booksmart, I saw probably a couple years ago, really enjoyed the first time and really enjoyed the second time. ah Excited to talk about all three of these.
'Little Women' Discussion and Critiques
00:05:35
dustinzick
OK, so you had all three previewed interesting. I don't know that I knew that going into this, but cool, cool.
00:05:41
Killer Kyle
Yeah, I didn't either. That's interesting, but that's good. i like I like the personal narrative you have. Well, yet you've already said something very spicy as far as I'm concerned. So we can get right into it.
00:05:52
Killer Kyle
you guys so do you guys Let's just start with little women then. I'm i'm i'm curious because I want to hear Alex's take on little women.
00:05:59
Killer Kyle
i want to Let's fire it off, dude.
00:05:59
dustinzick
Yeah, yeah.
00:06:00
dustinzick
Let's do it. Alex is just like, I love it.
00:06:02
Alex
Yeah.
00:06:03
dustinzick
That's the best thing ever. And I'm never going to watch another movie again.
00:06:05
Killer Kyle
Yeah. I've never actually seen it because I was just making out with my wife, but that's not to hear nor there.
00:06:14
Alex
So i I am a sucker for any film that feels literary and like has novels as part of its plot structure. I think it's why I like the Royal Tenenbaums as much as I do because it has that kind of framing device. And here I was definitely drawn in by that, you know, framing device of Jo writing and selling her book to the publisher in that first scene.
00:06:47
Alex
um And I just love the autumn in New England's, I guess different seasons, but um just the the setting resonates. I think all the characters are ah wonderful and like really richly richly written.
00:07:10
Alex
ah I don't think there's a bad performance in the bunch, although Emma Watson ah is definitely the weakest link of of the main cast. um i
00:07:21
dustinzick
I feel like she's kind of, I mean, her character is kind of not, I say this, she's not given much to do and that's not even so much that like her narrative is like the most traditional of them all, but just like they don't really spend much time with her. She doesn't really have much opportunity to do anything on screen.
00:07:42
Alex
No, that's true. Meg is probably like the thinnest thinnest character.
00:07:46
dustinzick
Mm.
00:07:46
Alex
um But yeah, I love i love the cross-cutting between different ah time periods. I just love the look and feel of it. It's such a, and this has kind of become a cliche when talking about movies, but it's such a cozy movie.
00:08:02
Alex
um And I love how the visuals really compliment that, where you've got these kind of warmer, orangy tones when they're in the past. And then when they're, you know, seven years later in the quote, presence of this movie, it's kind of got this bluish gray tint to it. I think the way that that like immediately ah sets you in which part of the, you know, the coming of age journey that we're seeing for these four women is, um,
00:08:35
Alex
And yeah, it just, it gets me on an emotional level every time, love the visuals, love the editing, um, on a craft level, on an acting level, thematically, uh, checks on my boxes. So that's, I think it's why it's a movie that I just, you know, really, really love.
00:08:53
dustinzick
You didn't mention that the biggest box to check that, I'm assuming you're just embarrassed to, like, Timothy Chalamet.
00:08:53
Killer Kyle
and Okay.
00:08:59
dustinzick
Like, that's it. Like, that's, that's for you, like, the true best thing.
00:09:02
Alex
I do, I do love. I do love Timothy.
00:09:06
Killer Kyle
Shamalama ding dong.
00:09:10
Killer Kyle
Yes, he's known as Shamalama ding dong in my house.
00:09:10
Alex
I do think he's really good at this.
00:09:12
dustinzick
No, he he actually, I, yeah, I thought he was really good at this too.
00:09:12
Killer Kyle
He is good.
00:09:17
Killer Kyle
Yeah, I like chamalay in this. um it It worked for me. Joe worked for me. um Emma Watson worked for me. um i I generally speaking like Emma Watson, I do agree that her character didn't she kind of had the most boring arc.
00:09:34
Killer Kyle
which is kind of funny.
00:09:34
dustinzick
Yeah.
00:09:35
Killer Kyle
She's the one who like actually married for love and whatever. But you know, that's a little bit of the older sibling stuff. You're just like, yeah, you gotta, you know, do some boring stuff, I guess. um I like the mom. Yeah, I guess.
00:09:47
Killer Kyle
So here's here's my question. You said you liked the editing. It was obviously a very big choice. And then I want to hear more from Dustin. It was a very big choice to edit this And to, and it's not the right word, to present this story in non chronological form. um Because that's not how the book goes. That's not how any of that, this is all things my wife told me. um This is this, you know what I mean? Like, this is not how this story is generally presented. And i'm I was my only issue, the only thing that I kind of found distracting.
00:10:25
Killer Kyle
was how they chose to deal with the age differences in Florence Pugh's character. um What's her name? I can't remember her name.
00:10:39
Alex
Amy.
00:10:40
Killer Kyle
wait yes Yes, yes, Amy. In Amy's character, because the only way they really seem to be able to accomplish, you know, in other versions of this, so I'm told, they use a younger actor actor and an older actor.
00:10:52
Killer Kyle
um And I guess I was sort of, there was times when her age, when they were trying so hard to tell you that she was younger with like,
00:11:03
Killer Kyle
the way she spoke, the way her hair was cut, and generally speaking, like her physical mannerisms.
00:11:10
dustinzick
Yep.
00:11:11
Killer Kyle
And it was at times with the non-chronological format, I mean, I could pick up that, you know, where she didn't have bangs and this and that, and she spoke this way, like it was pretty clear.
00:11:22
Killer Kyle
But there were some times when they would hearken back um to to to the days of yesterday when she was much younger, and it just didn't, That didn't really work for me, and I don't really...
00:11:34
Killer Kyle
I mean, I guess the solution is to maybe have another actor to be younger, but I don't know if that would was... I don't know. I think that's also hard to do in and of itself when all the other ones are not doing that.
00:11:45
Killer Kyle
um But that was...
00:11:47
dustinzick
Yeah, that would almost be more jarring to like have a different actor in there without doing it for the other three sisters, right? like If you did it for all four of them, then you can kind of be like, oh, these are the old, these are the young.
00:11:55
Killer Kyle
Right.
00:12:00
dustinzick
But if there's just like one random one that's like completely different and then everyone else is like the same, you'd be like, what?
00:12:04
Alex
Right.
00:12:04
Killer Kyle
Yeah.
00:12:08
Killer Kyle
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:12:09
dustinzick
Did she get sick?
00:12:11
dustinzick
Could she not act?
00:12:13
Killer Kyle
No, yeah, I agree. So that but I, I guess I wasn't sure. Okay, so I'm also going to bring up something totally um non sequitur here to to try to maybe illustrate a point. Have you guys read or or or watched any of the stand by Stephen King?
00:12:28
dustinzick
i've watched I haven't read either, but I've watched both adaptations.
00:12:33
Killer Kyle
You watched the original one.
00:12:33
Alex
no
00:12:34
Alex
area
00:12:35
Killer Kyle
No no familiarity. Okay.
00:12:37
Killer Kyle
Well, ah it's it's it's a very solid book by Stephen King about ah a lot of things.
00:12:37
Alex
no
00:12:43
dustinzick
End of the world.
00:12:44
Killer Kyle
By the end of the world, in a lot of ways, in a sickness that kills everyone but like 1% of the population.
00:12:44
dustinzick
Yeah.
00:12:48
Killer Kyle
It's fantastic read, I highly suggest it. But they did an adaptation that was you know long and drawn out and it was awesome, had Rob Lowe and Gary Ciddies.
00:12:58
dustinzick
a mini mini serious
00:12:58
Killer Kyle
But Yes, it was a miniseries. And then they recently did it like an adaptation of that on some SCBS or FX or one of those things.
00:13:06
dustinzick
Miniseries Paramount Plus, yeah
00:13:09
Killer Kyle
Pheromone Plus, yeah. And they made this decision to just give you all the information in non-chronological form. And so similar to that project, I was kind of, i'm not sure i'm not I'm not sure what was gained by that.
00:13:25
Killer Kyle
And I'm not sure, I guess i I kind of feel that the the moments in this movie were a little bit, for me, were a little bit taken away from or lessened by the non-chronological form because there wasn't as much buildup to certain things. And it it did feel like vignette in a way that on the one hand I kind of appreciated because there is this weird things that happens with the passing of time in a family and all the stories and all the things. They kind of get this layered nostalgic
00:14:06
Killer Kyle
It's kind of a lot of times hard to disentangle. And when you're a lot older and you're recounting things that happened, like things are out of place in a way that is is interesting when it comes to recounting your own life. But um for this particular story, there was times when I was like, I don't...
00:14:23
Killer Kyle
I don't know what was gained by showing it it, giving me this information in this way. And I feel like some of the punch, like for example, the punch of when Amy destroys Joe's writing, um which made me physically upset when that happened.
00:14:41
Killer Kyle
So that was effective, but like, yeah, it's very upsetting and it was written anything.
00:14:42
Alex
It is upsetting.
00:14:45
Killer Kyle
um But I felt like that also was a little, it was it was difficult without, a little bit before and a little bit. I mean, it was just difficult and non-cretological for me at a certain point. And then also, um Joe and Timothy Chamalayas. What's his name? You got it Alex?
00:15:04
Alex
Lori.
00:15:04
dustinzick
Lawrence, Lori Lawrence.
00:15:05
Killer Kyle
Lawrence, Lori. Joe and Lori's like big, are we doing this? What are we doing? I love you. That whole scene. There wasn't enough like unrequited feelings, I feel like.
00:15:19
dustinzick
Yeah, that build up. Yeah, yeah.
00:15:21
Killer Kyle
Yeah, it wasn't but for me like that moment, that moment lost the most from the way that the information was presented.
00:15:27
dustinzick
Yeah.
00:15:29
Killer Kyle
And it kind of feels like, yeah, the book is um the the story feels like it hinges a little bit on that moment in many ways.
00:15:30
dustinzick
even
00:15:32
Alex
Oh, that's.
00:15:38
dustinzick
Even Laurie and Amy's relationship, I mean, both Laurie and Joe and Laurie and Amy, I don't want to say they feel undeveloped because like it feels like it feels genuine, like the culmination where Laurie wants to propose to Joe and she doesn't want to, but like not because she doesn't love him kind of a thing.
00:15:39
Alex
Right.
00:15:59
dustinzick
And when he ultimately proposes to Amy and she decides to accept it, et cetera, et cetera, like those feel genuine. and and i And but they don't feel necessarily earned on screen. It's like I know that there's background here and I can kind of fill in the blanks and I'm sure there's a lot more than I saw. And and I just know the pieces that I saw on screen weren't long enough or or you know consecutive enough to really build that investment in those relationships. I don't disagree with that. I'll just say that like me literally just saying that I don't feel like those moments where long enough is kind of counterintuitive to me because my biggest gripe with this movie is I feel like it's too long
00:16:45
dustinzick
um I struggled to to be invested in the first hour of it. I got more invested in the second hour. And that's because I think, personally, I find the latter half of the story, chronologically speaking, to be more interesting, especially like the the efforts with Joe and publishing and things like that. Not that that's a huge piece of it, but um I do agree with you, Kyle, like that those two relationships, but specifically Joe and Laurie and like that scene was wonderfully acted and everything, but it just didn't feel like
00:17:24
dustinzick
I saw the culmination of the that relationship leading up to it on screen or portrayed in it. I'm sure that the book probably covers that a lot more being ah a book versus a cinematic adaptation of it.
00:17:40
Alex
these these reactions are so fascinating to me because I had a very very I do just love it but specifically we're talking about you know the way it's edited the way it's structured the way that there's build up to certain scenes and so with uh with joe and lori
00:17:46
dustinzick
You just love it.
00:18:03
Alex
That totally worked for me because we get the reveal pretty early on in um one of the more adult scenes that um that Joe turns Laurie down.
00:18:14
Killer Kyle
It's like scene two, yeah.
00:18:14
Alex
And it's like scene two, yeah. And to me that created a lot of tension, a lot of heightened expectations kind of waiting for that confrontation. And it gave their scenes together an air of kind of not doom and gloom, but there was there was a melancholy there knowing that they don't work out as a couple. And I was really, really hooked and really gripped during that scene where they meet at the party and they they dance outside. And you know all of their budding friendship, budding relationship works really well for me, having that seed planted of the outcome.
00:18:56
Alex
um with the Jo being an author meta-narrative that kind of frames the whole story. ah It also works for me that we get her ah kind of relationship with um the, what's his name, Friedrich, thank you, ah with Friedrich at the very beginning.
00:19:13
Killer Kyle
Friedrich.
00:19:17
Alex
And that's almost like a framing device. um And I think the moment where the different timelines works for me most effectively is when we get to um Meg's kind of death, spoiler, for a very, very old book, old story.
00:19:38
Alex
um But we, we get, that's, to excuse me, thank you.
00:19:41
dustinzick
like Meg's or Beth's death. Okay. I'm like, wait a minute. I don't remember Meg dying in this movie.
00:19:47
Alex
That would, that would be a very, ah very different movie.
00:19:49
dustinzick
I was like, what?
00:19:51
Alex
ah Sorry, Emma Watson.
00:19:51
dustinzick
Maybe I didn't pay attention.
00:19:54
Alex
I killed you, killed you off screen. um But we we get those scenes where they're almost in conversation with each other, the past and the present, her like first getting diagnosed or getting this illness that eventually claims her life um and her kind of in the final days, weeks of her life um in the the present time. And we get that scene of Joe walking down the steps in the past
00:20:24
Alex
And it's like, you know, again, it's got that warm lighting, like, you know, she's acting like she's gonna come down and be told that her her sister is dead. But you get the reverse, you get the reveal that she has, you know, made this recovery, um very uplifting. And then I think it's almost immediately after, if not the next scene, maybe a couple scenes later,
00:20:48
Alex
we get the exact same shot composition of Jo walking down the steps. It's got that bluish gray lighting. It's got that more somber atmosphere. But the shot composition is very similar, nearly identical. um The performance by Saoirse Ronan is very similar. And when she gets to the bottom of the stairs and sees her mom,
00:21:13
Alex
um Just because those scenes were so close together and in conversation with each other, I i fucking lose it at that scene. It like has such a you know visceral impact to me that I don't think it would if that part of the story was told chronologically. um So I think choices like that, for me, like heighten things and make it just feel very interestingly layered in a way I don't think it would be if it was a straightforward chronological narrative.
00:21:43
dustinzick
but Those two scenes that juxtaposition was was really like well thought out and stuff, though my one gripe is is the implication that when Beth died that they removed her body from the room.
00:22:00
dustinzick
While Joe was sitting there on watch like Because like that that I was like wait a minute like who came and removed the but like wouldn't they make some noise like they're like How did she sleep through that like that? I mean Outside the realm like I still thought it was a great scene and stuff but I was a little confused there because I was like I Like how would you miss that if you were like that? You know concern like thinking that your sister was nearing death or whatever that like if people came in the room and disturbed Like realized she had passed and so they're gonna take her To the funeral home or whatever they had back then Like I was just a little confused as to like how they like snuck her out of there without making Joe up at all Or having giving her any inkling that something had happened That took me out of it that just ruined it for me
00:22:54
Killer Kyle
I was just trying to keep up with how long her hair was in the timeline. And I was like, wait a second. I think there there was one point where I was like, I'm just not going to think about this because it's not worth thinking about.
00:23:05
dustinzick
You know another another thing that I took some degree of Umbridge with in this, I knew prior to seeing it that Bob Odenkirk was the dad, and I love but baba and Bob and I thought he did great, like totally great in this role, like he didn't really have much to do.
Humor and Clarifications
00:23:24
dustinzick
But I was really like I thought he had died at some point not because of anything anybody said or anything anybody Like acted or anything, but literally like when Beth died Where was he like he should or what I shouldn't say when she died because he he was at the funeral um but like when she was on her deathbed. like Where was he? like There was never any like presence of him in the house, and I thought the war was over by then.
00:23:54
dustinzick
and so like he just like After he appeared in past view, and then was present here and there in future view, like I was just really confused. like Why is he not here sometimes? that That just was kind of weird to me and I guess like Logistically speaking at the time like who knows what he did for work like maybe he was away on business or something like that But I just would have like I don't know that was I legit straight-up thought like oh did he pass in the time between these two time frames that we're seeing and then all of a sudden he was like at the funeral and I'm like, oh, okay
00:24:34
dustinzick
He's there and then he was officiating. Well, no, that was before that in the past that he officiated Amy's wedding. But yeah, that was that's another.
00:24:44
Killer Kyle
also I also got the feeling that he had died, um but they just didn't address they yeah no but that they didn't address it.
00:24:48
dustinzick
OK, good, I'm glad that wasn't just me.
00:24:52
Killer Kyle
And I guess like for me when he reappears, but he's not necessarily a part of best life. I don't know, for me that's just like, I just chalk it up to period pieces where it's like people are just dying all the time of like random stuff.
00:25:03
dustinzick
Yeah.
00:25:04
Killer Kyle
And so people just didn't seem to reroute their lives around death in the way that we do nowadays in a lot of, you know what I mean?
00:25:05
Alex
Yeah.
00:25:12
Killer Kyle
It was just like, oh, they're just,
00:25:13
dustinzick
Yeah, I mean that's fair like I guess I just thought like maybe like the day that Beth died that maybe he would be sitting at the kitchen table with his wife or you know what or something or maybe like he was in the living room like with his head in his hands like having and maybe he was for all we know he was in the backyard like sobbing up against a tree but I just thought that was a little confusing that in that you know, however many minutes put to screen about her being on her deathbed and whatnot, that he just was like M.I.A. from any sort of periphery that we see on camera of him just being in the background or, you know, maybe he's in denial kind of a thing. But that's probably giving more narrative to his character than needed. Really, frankly, his character really didn't drive the narrative in any significant way.
00:26:07
Alex
Yeah, for me that was not even a thought in my brain just because I was, I was locked into Mama March and Joe, like their relationship is really core to the film. So they were the ones that I wanted to see interacting kind of at that table.
00:26:25
dustinzick
That's fair. That's fair.
00:26:26
Killer Kyle
Yeah, I mean I did
00:26:26
dustinzick
I thought you were going to say because your eyes were locked into Timothy Chalamet, but okay.
00:26:31
Alex
That came later.
00:26:32
Killer Kyle
yeah Yeah, I mean, i did it I did overall, like, enjoy my watch of it, but it's not one that has stayed with me, I guess, in any way, like some other, great I will say, like some other Greta Gerwig pieces have.
00:26:48
Killer Kyle
I also, I got a lot of, ah Dustin, have you seen Frances Ha?
00:26:53
dustinzick
I have not.
00:26:54
Killer Kyle
Okay. Well, we'll add that onto the list to do at some point, but I know Alex has. For me, the, The editing and the pace had kind of like, the whole time I was watching it, I was just thinking about the the frenzy nature of Francis Ha.
00:27:14
Killer Kyle
um and And it just it really it was one of those moments where I was like, whether I'm putting this on this movie or creating it or whatever, it doesn't really matter. But it felt very much like the fingerprints of Greta Gerwig on this. ah this this you know that was you know like You see enough by one director and you can and and and a person who's had a hand in writing stuff. and it's ah For me, it just it was was one of those like, oh yeah, like I can really see that this is something like this is a part of Greta Gerwig's type of movies. And I felt that way about Lady Bird as well, um just with like it's very, very, very quick moving. you know i mean Even though it takes place in Sacramento and almost nothing happens because it's just an end of high school for a teenager.
00:28:04
Killer Kyle
But that kind of like, I kind of appreciated that that little stamp, whether, you know, and yeah, just just from from Greta Gerwig. And I was like, ah okay, I kind of get how she would interpret it this way.
00:28:16
Killer Kyle
I don't really know the story, maybe someone else does, or maybe you can pull up the Wikipedia, Dustin, but like, what's the deal with this being Sarah Polly's piece, but then she died, and then Greta Gerwig took it over?
00:28:27
Killer Kyle
Does anyone have anything on that?
00:28:29
dustinzick
Sarah Paulie didn't die.
00:28:29
Killer Kyle
I feel like, okay, okay.
00:28:31
Alex
wow.
00:28:34
Killer Kyle
Okay, well, we're just throwing stuff out here on Triple Take, seeing if it sticks.
00:28:35
dustinzick
ah Yeah, no, Sarah Paulie's still alive, um but she
00:28:41
Killer Kyle
What happened then?
00:28:43
dustinzick
All I'm seeing, I mean, there's a citation to it that has more info, but in March, this was announced that a new adaptation was in process in October 2013. In March 2015, producer joined and Sarah Polly was hired to write the script in Potentially Direct. And ultimately, Polly's involvement never went beyond initial discussions. So it looks like she never March 2015, she was hired on to script, write the script and potentially direct.
00:29:16
dustinzick
And then August 2016 is when Gerwig came into play initially to write the screenplay. And then it wasn't for another two years until June 2018 that she was announced as the director.
00:29:30
dustinzick
So without going into like the background, it seems like just didn't pan out.
00:29:31
Killer Kyle
This is why.
00:29:37
Killer Kyle
You gotta be you got to be careful who you listen to, even and even your wife. Because my wife is literally talking about how there was some weird thing where Sarah Paulie died and Greta Gerbig took it over. And I didn't look deeper into that until this moment.
00:29:49
Killer Kyle
And I'm glad we have done it together because that is a lie.
00:29:51
Alex
just Just willfully spreading misinformation on our podcast.
00:29:55
Killer Kyle
yes yes oh che ridiculous i mean Just...
00:29:56
Alex
Shame, sir. Shame.
00:29:59
Killer Kyle
I'm going to have to have a talk with my little woman. It's just it's just outrageous.
00:30:05
dustinzick
um me maybe it Maybe to her, sort like she was so attached to this material that when Sarah Polly dropped out, she was dead to her.
00:30:15
Killer Kyle
i mean don I don't know.
00:30:16
Alex
but proud
00:30:16
dustinzick
It was purely euphemistic.
00:30:17
Killer Kyle
it was it it was I'll tell you this. I will tell you this, it was a very funny viewing because we started the movie. just you know We'll just get into it. why not ah We started the movie and within three minutes of the first scene, I had heard the most audible groans coming from her side of the couch that I had ever... like just the Just the most Like I was just like, oh, and I had to stop it and be like, okay, I understand you have history with this movie, but like, I get it.
00:30:44
Alex
You're right. You're having some feelings right now.
00:30:49
Killer Kyle
We can talk about it all after the movie's over. It was a very funny way to watch the movie.
00:30:56
dustinzick
That's awesome.
00:30:56
Killer Kyle
Very funny way to watch the movie. Yeah.
00:30:58
dustinzick
You know, it's funny.
00:30:58
Killer Kyle
But no, I mean, I, yeah.
00:31:00
dustinzick
It's funny with that because I I told my wife, I'm like, I mean, I don't i honestly don't remember the 94 version at all beyond the fact that I said it was better than I thought it would be.
00:31:11
dustinzick
um and And that enough is to tell like tells me that I like this version more than that version, because I actually like this quite a bit. But I told her I'm like, I'm willing to rewatch the 94 version, but I feel like I'm still going to like this version a lot more just because like I'm sure for her, the 94 one hinges on nostalgia and her being eight years old when she first saw it kind of a thing. And like for me to get me into this story, I think it just being more modern in filmmaking techniques and things like that makes me feel more connected to it.
00:31:50
Alex
Yeah, I mean, Kyle, you were talking about like, kind of auteur theory in Greta Gerwig, right, with her fingerprints not being on this movie as much as some of her other work.
00:31:56
Killer Kyle
Mmhmm.
00:32:02
Alex
And I think, for me, it's, it's definitely a subtler approach than in in Lady Bird or Francis Ha. But, you know, we've talked about her biggest trick, which is the non chronological narrative of it.
00:32:18
Alex
I think the faster paced editing you're talking about. For me it came into play during those ending scenes where we've got Jo in the office of the the book publisher and she's having a conversation with her narrating what happens and then we're actually smash cutting to her um in the in the rain with the the umbrella moments um with uh with Friedrich and that felt the most like oh she's really actively flexing those uh those muscles that she used in those other movies but I I agree it's a you can't see the her handiwork quite as much um it's definitely a more
00:33:11
Alex
leisurely paced movie than those others do.
00:33:15
Killer Kyle
Yeah. And I mean, I think this is, i'm I'm just, I'm, I'm totally fine with people redoing the same stories over and over again, if they find their own passion in them. You know, I don't really have any issue with kind of think all stories at the end of the day are like rehashes in some sense, right? It's just some different characters and different new, some new things and all that, you know, like there's, I have, I kind of, I take no issue with,
00:33:41
Killer Kyle
with a person, you know, similar to a hip-hop artist, you know, sampling a song that they love and turning it into a new song and kind of finding inspiration there. So, i yeah, I'm as happy to watch and all those things. I don't think it'll necessarily ever be one that I return to, um but that's just that's just me.
Shift to 'Promising Young Woman'
00:34:04
dustinzick
Let's move on to another one. Which one do you want to tackle next?
00:34:07
Killer Kyle
Ooh, I want spice. I want i want i want to i want promising young woman. I want promising a young woman because I feel like it doesn't, you had not seen that?
00:34:16
dustinzick
I had not seen it.
00:34:18
Killer Kyle
Okay. what do you What do you got? What was your take on promising young woman before we get into Alex's spice?
00:34:24
dustinzick
Yeah, I... um
00:34:26
dustinzick
style over substance. like Visually, I feel like it um you know was interesting. The performances were, I don't want to say compelling to me, but they were interesting as well.
00:34:42
dustinzick
um ah just and it feels like it's
00:34:48
dustinzick
like I understand the point that it's trying to make to an extent, and I don't disagree that like Met, you know, like the the whole rape narrative and like men get a, you know, benefit of the doubt and like, but it's so fucking literal with every single like component of that, like to a fault of, I mean, when she goes in and talks to the, the, the Dean or whatever at the college, Connie Britton, um, and she literally verbatim says like, Oh, I, you know, I have to give the guys the benefit of the doubt, you know, innocent until proven guilty. Like,
00:35:26
dustinzick
I don't agree that that all that shit is bullshit. And like, I mean, I am biased as a man and like, like working uphill and trying to empathize with that perspective kind of a thing, but like total trash, total horse shit. Um, but like, I just feel like not that, not that there could be a more tactful way to like tell a story about trying to like,
00:35:56
dustinzick
get revenge on that reality, but like there just could be a more interesting way kind of a thing. like And I just feel like, i mean Connie Britton's a great actress, and she had like nothing to work with in that scene. Alfred fucking Molina, who I fucking love.
00:36:13
dustinzick
like I just felt like the dialogue he had to work with just felt very flat and like uninspired and like didn't come off as super convincing to me. and I don't know. I'm trying to think if I've seen other movies with Carey Mulligan in them. I did not.
00:36:34
dustinzick
like her in this movie and i'm struggling to know if it's because uh if i like didn't just didn't like her character or if i didn't like her as a performer or find her as a performer interesting and i don't think i have i've seen drive i haven't uh no no
00:36:50
Killer Kyle
have you Have you seen? Yeah, have you seen Never Let Me Go? Have you seen Shame?
00:37:01
dustinzick
So yeah, like there's I just don't have like This was like a bad introduction for me to her as an actress ah like bow burnham. I thought was good given what he had to work with like played kind of charming and like
00:37:14
Alex
Right.
00:37:17
dustinzick
but ultimately like kind of a dick and not kind of a dick like definitely a dick and like I appreciated that kind of reality of somebody that like comes on as like charming and that you think is like likable and then almost maybe it like has a couple opportunities to like slightly like fractionally redeem himself and like doesn't do it in any of those opportunities like he to me was probably like the most interesting performance in it, but I just feel like Beyond that, yeah, like it was kind of a waste of all the talent on screen between Alfred Molina and Connie Britton. And then you had Jennifer Coolidge and Clancy Brown as her parents who were like given nothing to do. Molly Shannon as her friend's mom. like All these amazing actors and actresses that like
00:38:07
dustinzick
and almost any other role they're in are doing something really cool and bringing something cool to it and are just given like very like stereotypical like what is like the literal definition of what this role would be or like what this person would be in this situation and given just a really small sandbox without any sand in it to play in and that's it.
00:38:31
dustinzick
um And so yeah, I just felt like visually it was really interesting um And like kind of cool to look at at some points, but that didn't carry it enough for me and I wish there was more of a More of a ah sharper narrative about this like societal
Character and Message Analysis
00:38:50
dustinzick
issues that we deal with with like rape culture and stuff like that rather than just like being this weird kind of revenge ish thriller and
00:39:00
Killer Kyle
Mm.
00:39:00
Alex
Yeah.
00:39:00
Alex
I mean, I don't know how Picante my take is going to be because I'm, I'm very much aligned with you on, on all that Dustin. Uh, and I, I think Carrie Mulligan is, is a great actress.
00:39:13
Alex
I think for me, the problem is that Cassie just kind of sucks as a character. I think, I think she's really flatly written.
00:39:22
dustinzick
Yeah.
00:39:22
Alex
Um, and I think it's for me, it's a problem like, you know, again, three three dudes talking about a movie about rape culture. But to me, it's it's really cynical and shallow to have um one of the main messages of your movie be that there is no like recovery or hope after trauma. like Trauma makes you dead inside is kind of the way that I interpreted Cassie's character in Carey Mulligan's performance where
00:39:53
Alex
um You know, it almost felt like she, all the characters in this movie felt like they had no interiority to me. They just felt like they were kind of there to, again, like you articulated, Dustin say the most literal version of whatever social critique that scene was making at that point, whether it was that, um, you know, rape culture is hidden in plain sight or, um,
00:40:24
Alex
ostensibly nice guys or men who perceive themselves as as nice guys will still um take advantage of of women, and you know in this case of Cassie in pretty grotesque ways, and then um you know be pretty pretty shocked um and kind of startled ah when that behavior is is called out and and the case of the ending turn very violence when when that behavior is called out.
00:40:52
Alex
um But yeah, Cassie as a character consistently bugged me throughout the movie because, um, Carrie Mulligan, again, I think does an admirable job of giving depth to that character with, you know, she, she sheds tears in a couple of scenes, but it just seems so,
00:41:17
Alex
again, flatly written and one-dimensionally portrayed that the only texture she was given was this friendship she had with Nina in her past and in her childhood where that was all that she had inside of her was the complexity and depth of this friendship. And when Nina, um we didn't really know the details of my my reading is that Nina can commits suicide as a result of um the the, you know, the assault not being something that she could she could prosecute and just the trauma of that. But yeah, just the whole implication that, you know, Cassie is so dead that she becomes this um kind of vigilante figure whose sole purpose in life is to go out and, um you know, and pray on pray on men in
00:42:15
Alex
you know in this very targeted way. um And it also feels cynical to me that the movie seems to be implying that her one hope at recovering from this trauma and finding you know something else inside of herself is her relationship with that the Bo Burnham character. And when he's revealed to have had had a role in the assaults, in the rape of of Nina,
00:42:44
Alex
um You know, that's when she fully commits to her her revenge, um you know, ah master plan. but Yeah, shallow, cynical, very technically well done. I like a lot of the filmmaking choices here. I like the the soundtrack and the editing. um There's some beautiful shots. I, in particular, um we're gonna get into spoiler territory, but when um they're burning Cassie's body at the ends, and you can kind of see her her hands ah with her nail polish, um you know, smoking among the embers of the fire. I thought, okay, that's a pretty dope image. I like what what she's doing there. um But yeah, all styled, no substance. um And I was looking at some other takes of the movie and someone in Leatherbox said that it felt constructed
00:43:45
Alex
um you know, to evoke think pieces rather than tell a compelling kind of nuanced story. And to me, that felt on point like it was really broadly gesturing at these really complicated issues and, um you know, trying to be sharp and subversive.
00:44:06
Alex
But to me, there wasn't enough depth or nuance to, you know, make it resonate. Kyle, what was your take on promising?
00:44:13
dustinzick
but Wait, if it's okay really quick, like I just want to underscore something you said that I didn't even really process till you said it, but like I think to to really boil down where my dislike in this comes and I think based on what you said, I would assume you would agree Alex is like how antithetical to the you know, the hypothesis or whatever or not hypothesis, but like to the the main premise of the movie being that like
00:44:16
Killer Kyle
Yeah.
00:44:42
dustinzick
you know, a decision by a man can ruin a woman's life, like literally end her life ultimately. um And and like if that's going to be like the central conceit of your movie, you're essentially saying like,
00:45:00
dustinzick
making a narrative about how like men have oppression over women, which I don't necessarily disagree with kind of a thing. um But if you want to show if you want to make a movie about like female empowerment, and maybe that wasn't the goal here, but it seems like it would be, um how antithetical is it to have your main characters like one opportunity of escaping the depression that she's in from the loss of her friend after her friend was raped, be in a relationship with a guy. Not saying that she needs to be like in a relationship with a woman, but like can she not find any other way out of this depression cycle that she's in?
00:45:44
dustinzick
um and And that's the one way is like a traditional storybook romance kind of a thing. Like that seems like you've kind of lost your entire narrative by ah going down that route with it.
00:45:57
dustinzick
and um To me, that just feels like it wasn't really thought out beyond the central premise of like, oh, revenge thriller, like kind of like a weird revenge thriller about rape culture and things like that. But then ultimately, I need a man to make me happy kind of a thing, which is like not the message that doesn't align with the message that I would think you're trying to make with this kind of movie. That was a very poorly put way of my idea, but I think it came through.
00:46:28
Killer Kyle
No, no, it came through. It came through. Well, I mean, this is fascinating. ah
00:46:37
Killer Kyle
i I disagree categorically with like everything you said.
Visual and Thematic Elements
00:46:42
Killer Kyle
um I see I do see where you're you're getting it from. And and I and so i yeah, I don't I don't think it's unfounded or whatever. But like, okay, so I want to I want to let me let me get to the style part before I get into the substance part because I do think
00:46:57
Alex
Absolutely.
00:46:58
Killer Kyle
I do think the style of this movie is fucking incredible. And the the composition of shots is amazing.
00:47:09
Killer Kyle
on unlike at Almost every single level, i just and not every single level but like every single shot I just thought was so... thought out in a way and and beautiful and ah just perfect lighting and perfect pace and perfect I mean everything, everything like everywhere the camera was I was in love with. And then you get into the the second half of the scene, the second half of the movie and kind of starting with that scene with with Bo Burnham's entry into ah the narrative where she's in that beautiful coffee shop, there is then for the rest of the movie, just this, you can call it a leitmotif, but once you start looking for it, like it's everywhere, the amount of blue and pink juxtaposed on each other with shirts and lights and nail polish and earrings and like every little to the point where it was a little bit, I mean,
00:48:06
Killer Kyle
i think this is really this I enjoyed watching this movie so much because it really highlighted for me what we're doing here in this podcast and why it has value because the first time I watched this movie I was interested in the story and and it unfolding and and all the things that made me made me feel. And when I watched it this time, i just I watched it with that different lens that I watch movies with, that I'm going to do this type of thing. And so I really appreciated all ah all that it gave there and the detail it had in that kind of
00:48:40
Killer Kyle
the blue and the pink and the boy and the girl stuff um and and and where it ended up getting to. So just just gorgeous, but then those details really heightened it for me. um So okay, the substance part. I think, for me, this is definitely a movie that needed to,
00:49:04
Killer Kyle
ah needed to amp up every aspect and needed to play into melodrama a little bit as a device to sort of prove its points um or express its points in a way that was not subtle. And I can see why that would be... and not it not unsavory to to some, but just like not really land, like it didn't really land with you two in terms of in terms of the main character and their motivations and what they were doing. But the things that I appreciated about the substance um and about like Carey Mulligan's character in general, Cassie's character in general was like, I agree with you, Alex, about um it's a little bit difficult to see trauma be portrayed as something that's so
00:50:02
Killer Kyle
ah hard for for a person to rise above or transcend beyond or evolve away from, whatever you want to say. And I think for me, i on the one hand, I do agree with what you're saying there in the sense of like, that is tricky when it comes to like, you don't want this movie to say that it's over after those type of events happen.
00:50:25
Killer Kyle
But I think what the movie did a very good job of expressing, um which led to a lot of Cassie's decisions um and just the way she was living her life before all the things happened or not, but you know, in between ah the end and and what kind of set it off on this path, is this idea that no one seems to give a shit and that it's very You know, it's just like it's everyone is, everyone is shuffling it under the rug. And I think there's a, I think for me that hit on, and obviously this is a movie of a time and place, right? This is smack dab in the middle of the Me Too movement, right? When this movie comes out and all those things. So like, there's also that.
00:51:05
Killer Kyle
um The, when your trauma is not accepted at large by the world, which I think this movie did take to the next level to sort of get there, to make sure, like it really it really did bludgeon you over the head with a lot of these things, which can be something that is just not that enjoyable of a watch overall. But I i i felt that it kind of, it needed to go to that level of almost hyperbole in some of these things.
00:51:36
Killer Kyle
um to to get to its point uh so so when when the trauma is something that no one is acknowledging kind of thing i think that it it is harder for you to to get beyond it right like trauma is something that you need This is why people have groups. This is why you share. This is why you go to therapy, all those things. like You have to get it out and and have a shared experience with people in a sense to so that you're not on the island of trauma by yourself. And I think that this movie did a ah good job of, for me anyway, of teasing out that that space of like you you go through these experiences, someone you love has died,
00:52:13
Killer Kyle
no one is acknowledging that this happened. And it's really kind of just par for the course in this world that they've created. And I thought that that was difficult to watch.
00:52:24
Killer Kyle
And it made me feel like that sense of anger um when everything is just like, oh, this is, you know, boys would be boys and locker room talk and all that stuff. And yeah,
00:52:36
dustinzick
good Can I interject with a question?
00:52:38
Killer Kyle
yeah of course. Yeah.
00:52:39
dustinzick
um When you talk about like people not acknowledging it and things like that, are you speaking about like her parents and um trying to think... like Well, yeah, like first and foremost, like do you feel like her parents fit into that category or are you more thinking about like the dean at the school and um Alison Breeze character, the friend that the old friend, quote unquote, that she meets up for for drinks.
00:53:07
Killer Kyle
Yep, the big one for me the big one for me that really crystallizes this feeling is Alison Brie's character is the other woman who's a part of the world and is now successful and has moved on and is married and has kids and all those things.
00:53:14
dustinzick
Uh huh.
00:53:20
Killer Kyle
And like their conversation where it's like, oh, all men at the end of the day, like want a good girl, missing that stuff. But her also just being like, yeah, you know, you do all these things and stuff happens and it's kind of your fault.
00:53:31
Killer Kyle
And for me, that that that's really teasing out this idea in our culture of like, oh, You know, the type of shit weve we've heard for, you know, for a long time, like, oh, this happened to her.
00:53:41
Killer Kyle
That's so tragic. What was she wearing? You know what I mean?
00:53:44
Killer Kyle
Like, this this level of it's your fault type of thing. And I think Alison Brie's character really brings that out. I also think Connie Britton's scene, as much as I agree, like, there wasn't much to do there. You kind of saw what was coming.
00:53:44
dustinzick
Mm hmm.
00:53:55
Killer Kyle
It was pretty wild, I think, what what Cassie did, you know, in that in that moment to to kidnap a young ah young girl is crazy shit.
00:54:00
dustinzick
no
00:54:00
Alex
Right.
00:54:04
Killer Kyle
um but But, you know,
00:54:04
dustinzick
Yeah, that really did kind of like underscore that she's like borderline sociopathic in her her vigilantism kind of a thing.
00:54:11
Killer Kyle
Yeah,
00:54:14
Alex
Right.
00:54:14
Killer Kyle
yeah losing yeah losing it for sure. But also, you know that really for me, that is, every you know to quote Dave Chappelle, everything's funny until it happens to you, right? Like everything is everything is, when you bring it that close to home and that that being the only thing that really changed ah that Dean's whole demeanor,
00:54:37
dustinzick
Yeah.
00:54:38
Killer Kyle
To me, that that's a nice, I think that that's an important point to make in the fact that she's a woman is also important, you know, that like she was the person that talked to. um Uh, what's the friend's name Nina?
00:54:48
dustinzick
Nina, Nina.
00:54:49
Killer Kyle
She's the person who talked to Nina and she's just forgotten and how like everyone has just forgotten. And I think that her being the best friend and this lifelong thing, and they're both on this huge path to being amazing doctors and all that stuff.
00:55:02
Killer Kyle
And all the Bo Burnham conversations where Cassie was this amazing person who knew everything top of her class. And now this is just a like a world shattering event for her that yeah, she can't really, she can't really get over.
00:55:14
Killer Kyle
And part of the reason you can't get over it is because no one will really acknowledge and and kind of a be with her in that moment. It's all a little bit of...
00:55:24
dustinzick
see that's that's where i think i almost wonder like i feel like we and you know both of us are right in our interpretation because it's our interpretation but like i almost get the feeling that like Because to me, I like kind of backfilled her story a little bit in my head and and based on nothing. ah But knowing that it was her 30th birthday, this ostensibly event happened six, seven years ago, thinking med school in early 20s. It was further back than five years. It wasn't that recent. And not I am not talking about like you know people take years to process the the death of a loved one. I'm not passing any judgment on that kind of stuff.
00:56:07
dustinzick
um but I almost like in my mind I wonder how long Cassie's been in this vigilante mode where she's been going trolling men at bars
00:56:20
Killer Kyle
there There's a lot of notches in that book.
00:56:21
Alex
I mean, there are a lot of tallies.
00:56:22
dustinzick
That well, I know but she seems to be doing it like every night too.
00:56:23
Alex
Yeah, absolutely.
00:56:23
Killer Kyle
Yeah.
00:56:26
dustinzick
So like conceivably like i'm curious and And again, there's no indication that I recall from the movie that You know gives us any background to fill this in but i'm curious Did she go through like a truly depressive state when nina died?
00:56:42
dustinzick
was she like in bed every day for for hours on end kind of a thing for Months or years and then there was a switch that flipped or whatever like to me it would almost have been more interesting Maybe not the whole movie but to have some part of the movie even if it's like a retro like ah a flashback To have seen like that first moment where she went out and and did her thing at the bar um Like that like the fact that we just kind of got dropped in and her being in this vigilante mode and not really getting any sort of
00:57:16
dustinzick
we understand what she's doing, like why why this makes sense to her, and like what justice she sees that she's getting, but never seeing her come to that idea of doing this, I think is a missed opportunity in the movie that would have made it more interesting and made it more made her character have more depth and more empathy almost. Because like to me, I'm just like, has she been doing this for six years? Has she been doing this for the last six months kind of a thing? like Where is this you know transition? And we we get a little bit of an inkling
00:57:51
dustinzick
that whatever rut she's in has been there for a while. And that's from when she brings Bo Burnham home to her parents, and then her dad says something about how we really liked him. but we've where we He said that we that Nina was like a daughter to us, but we've and we've missed her, but we've really missed you. um And that kind of indicates that you know she had been in whatever form she's in for some amount of time. But to me, that that interaction she's giving to her parents could just as easily have come from a depressive state, like I just am in my own little universe kind of a thing. I'm not entirely sure where I was going with that, but like I do really feel like that idea of seeing
00:58:35
dustinzick
how she got to the person that we that she is when we meet her would have made her character if not more likable but at least more understandable and certainly have given it more depth for me.
00:58:46
Killer Kyle
Yeah, and you're
00:58:47
Alex
I do think i was I was craving, sorry to cut you off Kyle, like just a little bit more um from Cassie's past life before this happens.
00:58:51
Killer Kyle
good.
00:58:57
Alex
I would have liked to see, ah we only hear about it from other characters, ah how how talented she was in net school or um you know what her personality was like ah back then and how she lit up a classroom.
00:59:14
Alex
and It happens a little bit at the end where ah she's setting up the final torture for, I'm forgetting the assaulter's name.
00:59:28
Alex
um
00:59:29
dustinzick
Uh, where am I looking?
00:59:32
Alex
yeah
00:59:33
dustinzick
Is it Joe? Yes.
00:59:35
Alex
It's Al. Yes.
00:59:38
dustinzick
It's Joe.
00:59:40
Alex
Yeah, well, joe's um Joe is the friend. I think it's Al. um
00:59:45
Killer Kyle
It's Al. It's Al.
00:59:46
Killer Kyle
Yeah, it's Al.
00:59:46
Alex
yeah i Yeah, when she's like laying out her scalpel and being like, you know, I used to be pretty good at anatomy back in med school.
00:59:46
dustinzick
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:59:54
Alex
I wanted more gestures like that, that from Cassie to shade out her character a little bit more. But to your point, Kyle, i I agree on the technical craft of this movie, being at a really high level and that being really exciting to see as a debut film from from a director. ah And I think it's really insightful just that that observation on trauma and how trauma isolates you. And I think we we see that in Cassie's story and we see that in her revenge quest, reinforcing her her dark view of humanity because she is actively seeking out
01:00:43
Alex
the worst possible men by creating the the Venus flytrap scenarios that she does, where she appears too drunk to stand. And then that the men who approach her are going to be the ones who have predatory impulses buried beneath the surface. So she's she's reinforcing that that alienation from humanity by by going on this quest.
01:01:11
Alex
um And I also, I do like those moments of other characters really wanting to forget, wanting to brush this under the rug. I think the Alison Brie lunchtime wine drinking scene is one of the most effective ones in this movie because there's real, there's real pain and trauma that you can see in Alison Brie's performance where
01:01:43
Alex
she's not even willing to interrogate or to take herself back to that that place. She almost kind of flutters her eyes and looks really afraid to go back to that moment in time because that that misogyny, that you know rape culture is so deeply internalized in her that she the only way she can think about it is to be like, well, we're, you know, we were We were kids, ah we were we were drunk, like, what do you expect?
01:02:15
Alex
Stuff like that happens. I thought that was really, really effective. um And the soundtrack, to talk about other things I liked, soundtrack for this movie is on point, but go for it.
01:02:21
Killer Kyle
Yeah, let me. Sounds good. Yeah.
Cassie's Role and Societal Themes
01:02:27
Killer Kyle
Yeah, well, i just want to I just want to bring up a couple other moments that like, so for one, I see what you guys are saying about you want more more depth in Cassie's character. For me, Cassie's character is a little bit more of the lightning bolt um that's just going through this movie. ah That's very, you know, if you've either of you watch The Wire, like there's a lot of deep, very multifaceted characters in The Wire, and then there's Marlow, who doesn't give a flying fuck, and it's just a lightning bolt through it making moves.
01:02:54
Killer Kyle
um So for me, Carey Mulligan's character is a little bit of that. Like she's a device to push things along and you're on kind of the ride of of what she's creating. But the some of the moments that I really liked.
01:03:07
Killer Kyle
I thought that it was a very impressive choice to have her get killed um in her revenge. Because I think this movie, I would probably feel exactly the same as you two feel if she just is able to execute the revenge porn and not and not not be killed. And I think that the reason that I like that so much is is is this idea In a lot of ways, Cassie is the sacrificial lamb, obviously, of this narrative. And the idea that to talk about this stuff, this shit that goes on that happens to women all the time, there's an there's an aspect of you have to self-sacrifice in order to get your justice.
01:03:53
Killer Kyle
And I think that the way that Cassie's character is self-sacrificing with the nightly, ah you know whatever, biweekly attempts or just decisions to maybe kill a guy or injure a guy in some capacity, how that's taken over her life and how that's kind of destroying her as well. um the the The idea that she knows that she might die in trying to get what she wants and exact revenge on this guy and this group of guys,
01:04:23
Killer Kyle
To me, that really that's a really big... To me, the the choice there really heightens this idea that in order for a woman to come forward in these in these events, it takes this level of courage ah because you could, because of the way society operates, really be like annihilated and vilified for even being a part of that. right like for you're You're not to blame.
01:04:49
Killer Kyle
Getting drunk is not a crime all those things right like to me her dying in that way where it's like goddamn it like you're right there at the cusp of this of this being realized and Then she loses out to just manly overpowering ah is, ah for me, that's a very important choice. And I think something that really makes or breaks the movie. um But then also, when Alison's Breeze character comes back to her, and Mike is frantic and desperate, and is so concerned about what may or may not have happened, and then not knowing, I think that that's very visceral and awesome. But and and expresses
01:05:28
Killer Kyle
kind of what that moment can do to a woman, ah even one that's you know beyond and not young and all that stuff, that it's not just something that happens to kids. But when they go in and she talks to her and there's a video and she's like, I wouldn't watch it and all this stuff, but then when that scene ends and she leaves the phone and Alison Spree's character goes, do me a favor, never fucking contact me again,
01:05:54
Killer Kyle
The level of hand washing that she wants from the situation, I think, doubles down on the whole isolation of this type of trauma, which is also like that Connie Britton interaction where if it's not close to home, then you just don't want to hear about it type of stuff. And then on top of that, like Molly Shannon's character about like, you just got to move on. Like it's just not healthy. Like we've all moved on. Like it really sucks.
01:06:20
Killer Kyle
That one is is a more tortured moment for me because i don't I don't see it as just like a denial, like a lot of the other people are giving Cassie's character. um it It really is just like a, it's kind of like almost a helplessness of like, there's nothing we can do at some point, like we do have to move on. And I think it's interesting, you know, the the thing that you you guys both sort of said or or or agreed on is this idea that the,
01:06:48
Killer Kyle
she finds some sort of catharsis in a relationship with a man. And I think that a lot of that is still tied up in that conversation she had with Molly Shannon and and really people trying to get her to break out of this shell.
01:07:02
Killer Kyle
and And as much as Bo Burnham's character is not seeing that trauma, is not seeing that experience, is not like connecting those two things. um He is someone that is talking, you know what I mean? like Everyone else is just kind of like, oh Cassie's been fucked up for a while and Bo Burnham is like, why are you working at this coffee shop? You used to be so good. Like he's really actually someone who's asking about her and it's kind of reminding her of these things that that he remembers about her that were so exemplary trying to get her back to that to that state or to that ability to think about herself in that way or her future and all these things. And so for me, Bo Burnham's
01:07:46
Killer Kyle
Like, Bo Burnham's role in this, and I do think it's it's very... it's ah i can still I knew it was coming in this time, but the first time I saw it, the gut punch of him being a part of that video, I think is very effective, and it is a huge fall from grace.
01:08:02
Killer Kyle
and i mean it's Yeah, i mean she was you know she had that initial reaction when he was like, do you want to come upstairs? Which is one of those moments where you could you could kind of say, like well, you he's not trying to bamboozle her. like he's being you know what i mean like it's Obviously, there's there can be an aspect of, geez, that's all any guy wants and he's asking her up on the first date and this is a little forward and all that stuff. But then there's the other thing of like, well, I don't know.
01:08:29
Killer Kyle
trying to get to a world where consent is an actual thing. And her reaction to that is very aggressive, but then she kind of recovers from it and is able to, I mean, really, you know, she's, she's, for me, that that catharsis is someone trying to, to be with her and remind her about why she's great. And it's the only person that's trying to pull her out of without knowing it, pull her out of the the negative stuff. like Her parents and like aren't really doing it. right like Molly Shannon's character is kind of like one of the only ones that really does that um as well. and so For me, all that is so... the fact that It really gets me to the fact that she gets killed.
01:09:09
Killer Kyle
And that she kind of knows it's going to happen because that to me is the moment of what do you do when this happens when no one will believe you and or no one will take it seriously or no one will care in the way that you want it to care. You know you kind of you either have to move on and whatever and forget about it or you have like take matters into your own hands which is kind of what she's doing in this very you know over the top way ah for this movie.
01:09:34
Killer Kyle
But then when she's finally, I think it's also, and for me, it's also a good moment of like, she finally let someone in. She finally is able to try to get there. And again, she's just smacked in the face with the realities of the world and the moment and how everyone has this, I mean, not everyone, but everyone in this movement for the most part, right, has like some sorted past and doesn't handle things well. And I guess I see what you're saying in terms of some of some traditional character stuff that I definitely hear. But for me, there was enough moments in this movie that you can kind of, I think it's easy to think, to say like, oh, this was very, like, I can't believe there was giving it to me this spoon fed. And I think there was a couple of those moments where I just liked more because it seemed like from a top down look,
01:10:26
Killer Kyle
that like self-sacrifice in coming out about these things happening requires a level of dedication to beat down the doors of people to get them to care and they still don't care and so the actions that she takes to get them to care like what she does at the bar with with whatever man tries to take her home and sexually assault her with Connie Britton's character um And at the end, when she kind of knows that she might not come back, you know I mean think it'd be easy for the choices to be made where she doesn't leave a note. She doesn't have a grand plan. She thinks she's going to get it. She thinks she's going to win. um And then at the end, you know for her to actually kind of win, but have to die to get there is, ah yeah, i just I liked all of those. all of those and i And I think the style for me also carries a lot of those moments and makes them better. but
01:11:16
Killer Kyle
Yeah, interesting. I mean i just i had a a much more visceral sit with this movie, um and it really... for me For me, not in the cheap way, it does make me think. And I think ah think some of the some of the moments make me think in that second and and third level way about what she has to do to get there. And then and then for that moment where you don't think she's gonna get it, that the guys have won again, and that she's just burned, and they're just gonna get married and like move on, and then to have that taken away,
01:11:51
Killer Kyle
is nice, but obviously she had to die to get there. um And yeah, yeah, all those things.
01:11:56
dustinzick
Mm.
01:11:58
Killer Kyle
So that's that's kind of my, that's my read of it.
01:12:02
Alex
I like that read because that it's making me, in retrospect, appreciate parts of it more that I didn't necessarily drive with in the moment.
01:12:03
Killer Kyle
That is my read of it.
01:12:14
Alex
And yeah, it's just it's nice to hear that you had such a ah powerful, kind of evocative experience with with this movie. I do agree that ending is one of its its greatest ah narrative slights of hands.
01:12:30
Alex
um Before we pivot to to Booksmart, I did want to call out another um trick in employees I think is really effective. and it's a casting decision, and it's casting the characters that it does as the nice guys, where you've got Adam Brody, ah you've got Christopher Mintz-Plasi, you've got Max Greenfield, Schmidt from New Girl, at the very end.
01:12:52
Killer Kyle
Mmhmm.
01:12:57
Alex
So you've either got heartthrobs or lovable goops as the nice guys, and I think that really lulls you into a false sense of security, so that when that menace does appear,
01:13:08
Alex
it really pops and crackles. and I think that was ah a very smart choice to to cast those actors.
01:13:16
Killer Kyle
Yeah, I think Bo Burnham, Bo Burnham in particular is like a masterstroke for me because I love Bo Burnham as as you know, Alex, and maybe you don't know Dustin, but I'm a huge Bo Burnham fan. um And I yeah actually think he will make at some point the greatest movie we've ever seen. I just think it might happen 20 years from now.
01:13:33
Killer Kyle
Um, but, uh, but I have faith, I have faith that that will happen. But, uh, but yeah, like he, he, to that point Alex, like he is very much, he is that way. And, and, and yeah, he's not, he's, he's not, he's not involved in the act specifically. He's not the one holding the camera, but he's there.
01:13:53
Killer Kyle
And I think that that is, that again, is another one of those moments of like the nice guys are there and they're not going to war. And so it's up to the women to do it themselves and to do it themselves sometimes requires a level of self sacrifice that is ah untenable for some. And, you know, just, just requires a lot to, uh, to get there. And yeah, I just, I thought I just liked all the, all the metaphors, uh, that, that were contained, but.
01:14:20
Killer Kyle
um Yeah. I mean, we disagree. that's yeah that's That's good. But also, I mean, yeah, I see what you're saying about certain aspects and made me think about it as well, but I i do love this movie. It's a movie that i I will see multiple more times, but not you know for for a bit. It'll be every every couple of years type of thing I imagine.
01:14:38
Alex
When you're watching Promising Young Women, I'll be watching Little Women, so it'll it'll be a nice hearing.
01:14:38
Killer Kyle
um
01:14:42
Killer Kyle
that if Yes, yes, well, we can check back in.
Transition to 'Booksmart'
01:14:46
Killer Kyle
But, but in that, you know, we could we could let's move on to book smart, let's move on to slightly lighter fare from promising young women.
01:14:53
Killer Kyle
um So we'd all seen book smart then.
01:14:57
dustinzick
Yes.
01:14:58
Killer Kyle
Okay. What what because book smart is a movie for me that ah I love. Now, we we all know I love a coming of age two, we all know I love all these things.
01:14:58
Alex
Indeed.
01:15:11
Killer Kyle
But um It's I think it really it's a movie that I think is is important for the the female relationship in youth that I don't think is really handled all that often.
Friendship and Self-Discovery in 'Booksmart'
01:15:27
Killer Kyle
um And it's interesting, I'm actually just realizing that it it is something that is handled in little women in a way you know that you get through through sisterhood. but um But the female best friend, especially one that you know one that's gay and one that's not, and in this high school world,
01:15:44
Killer Kyle
i I just appreciated like where the journey that they went on and how kind of the message for me of the you know the world is unfair but be yourself through it all and you will uh you'll you'll actually come out ahead ah Type of thing that to me is like what this movie says and I think it's something that a lot of young girls lose um mean have to be Young, you know what I mean? Like this idea of not being yourself or not being true to yourself for not having your goals or whatever and getting lost ah Lost in the sauce of of a high school or an adolescence and letting the way other people are Impede how you want to feel about yourself or what you're trying to do and
01:16:27
Killer Kyle
ah Yeah, I mean, I think it's just an incredibly enjoyable watch. And I think one of the things that it does incredibly well is the way that it uses the the songs that it chooses to heighten certain scenes that are usually inside someone's head about ah things that happened in high school. For me, that's very emblematic of of how music can can operate in a high schooler's mind ah in a way that, you know, to juxtapose this obviously with Superbad, I think it's a very different movie and I think it's saying different things. ah and And the musical choices in Superbad are very classic and they're a little bit more about the making of the movie.
01:17:10
Killer Kyle
And I feel like the musical choices that go along with certain scenes are very much inside a 17, 18-year-old's head, where the music of the time is being superimposed on their life to give it this huge amount of grandeur that puts on this massive amount of pressure. um and and And yeah, I mean, i there's there's there's so many moments. But I think i think the moment that I like the the the most in this movie is when they're fighting at the party.
01:17:40
Killer Kyle
and you lose all of their words. And I think that that ah I don't know, something about the way that that scene has like entropy when you take away the sound after the huge kind of reversal baptism moment of her jumping into the pool, which is you know the the the trope or the the device that is used in so many movies for like some new realization of becoming. But this way, she jumps in thinking that she's got this moment with this girl, and then it turns out that
01:18:14
Killer Kyle
all of their reality is imploding on itself when Nick and Ryan are actually making out and she's trying to protect and they all fall apart and they have to come back together. For me it's just like God, the whole, everything like everything.
01:18:30
Killer Kyle
Everything, the pacing, the the the the dialogue, the characters, the the principal, that's the Uber driver, the teacher that still wants to be young, and like is ah but is involved in their life.
01:18:42
Killer Kyle
like It's a very, I don't know. What's this character, what's the rich guy's character's name? Jerbear?
01:18:52
dustinzick
Is it, uh, is it?
01:18:52
Killer Kyle
Oh man. ah
01:18:57
dustinzick
Is it? Yeah, it's Jared. Yeah, Jared. Jared Barr.
01:19:01
Killer Kyle
Jared. yeah yeah I think i think i think he you know like he's something that is very much like a comedic relief, but then that spins into that one great conversation that they have, which reminds me a little bit of like, can't hardly wait when they're locked in the bathroom and they eventually you know come to understand that they're not so different and all those things.
01:19:02
dustinzick
Yeah.
01:19:12
dustinzick
Mm-hmm.
01:19:22
Killer Kyle
Yeah, um I love it so much. And I just think it's ah it's a story that we don't get enough of in a real way um like this with these two types of characters that are not just, you know, pretty mean girls, I guess, for lack of a better term, but have real, like I knew so many of of these types of ah types of women in my
01:19:38
dustinzick
Yeah.
01:19:45
Killer Kyle
young academic life of just you know very driven, and but still try to figure figure it out in the world. and And then just like, i have I have a thing for movies that are about friendship as well, and just that that level of best friendness is which I think is also something I really liked about a promising a woman that was affecting like I could see the loss of a best friend like that in that way, you know, being that effective.
01:20:11
Killer Kyle
And I like I like seeing friendship on screen that is this quirky, and this weird and this powerful. That's what I got. That's what I got. What do you got?
01:20:22
dustinzick
Alex do you want to go or do you want me to go?
01:20:23
Killer Kyle
Who wants a tongue?
01:20:24
Alex
Yeah, let me let me jump into it.
01:20:24
Killer Kyle
Yeah.
01:20:26
Alex
I mean, I I really, really like this movie. I think it's a blast. I think it moves along at a really nice, steady clip. i That sequence that you were talking about, Kyle, that starts in the pool with um Amy and ah and Ryan, and then kind of ends with with Amy and Molly having that big blow up fight and then As you talked about, you've got that great choice to cut out the audio and we know exactly what they're fucking saying.
01:20:58
Killer Kyle
And this.
01:20:59
Alex
Like we don't need to hear the audio to know what the tenor, what the emotional climate of the argument is. I also love the detail where you have the little flash bulbs on everyone's smartphone activated so you know that this moment is not just this private internal thing it is being, you know, fucking and turned into Insta stories and reels and streams, you know, the entire student body. So it really heightens um the the drama there. um For me, what stood out about this movie is the way that it kind of recontextualizes and puts a fresh spin on a lot of high school movie tropes um where
01:21:48
Alex
even in the in the beginning when you get that first scene where ah they're they're dancing to the music kind of as um as Molly is picking Amy up from from her apartments. um And it's similar to a lot of the scenes like that you get in in high school comedies. It's that like, you know,
01:22:10
Alex
Do you want to be a gangster type, like you've got the hip-hop playing, you've got the characters thinking they're all cool, the slow-mo is playing. But in this, Olivia Wilde makes a really smart choice to, for just one cut, you get this wide shot of how fucking goofy they look when they're actually dancing.
01:22:28
Alex
You don't get the heightened reality of what they think they look like in their minds, you get like the the real dorky shit, and I think that's great.
01:22:29
Killer Kyle
Yep.
01:22:37
Alex
um I think what kept me from connecting with this movie until they get to the party, because that's really where it all clicked. And narratively, thematically, that makes sense. But a couple of things kind of kept me at arm's length um for maybe the first half, two thirds of the running time. ah One is that some of the characters just felt a little cartoonish or like, yes, this is a broad comedy.
01:23:08
Alex
um You know, these are exaggerated types of ah people you would find in a real high school. um And that's one of the the the tricks the movie pulls is to add shading to these characters as time goes on. ah Like you were saying, Kyle, with with Jared, where we initially see him and he's this kind of cringy, tryhard rich kid who thinks he can buy, ah you know, friendship. And then you get that dementia dimension and shading when him and Molly have that great conversation at the party. And you're like, oh, there is depth. Like he he desires things like he has, um you know, he he has real texture as a character. He's not this cartoon character, a comic relief.
01:23:55
Alex
Um, I think the movie pulls a similar trick with, with Molly where You know, I think you're supposed to find her in gray shading. You're supposed to, not in gray shading, annoying.
01:24:07
Killer Kyle
Grading.
01:24:08
Killer Kyle
Yeah.
01:24:08
Alex
Grading, thank you.
01:24:09
Alex
um You're supposed to find her grading because she reminds you of all of the Lisa Simpson types who, you know, everyone went to so high school and college with who are so desperate to prove there their intellect and their, you know,
01:24:09
Killer Kyle
Yeah.
01:24:25
Alex
superiority and she's at her best when you get those moments of a weakness of vulnerability. um But I wish the movie had brought me in a little bit sooner. um And I also think that some of those set pieces in getting to the party felt a little a little contrived ah as much as I like Jason um
01:24:52
dustinzick
Sudeikis.
01:24:52
Alex
they it's make it yeah and like As much as I you know i was was cracking up at the the Uber scene, it felt it felt a little derivative.
01:24:53
Killer Kyle
said aga Yeah.
01:24:53
dustinzick
Sudeikis.
01:25:02
Alex
It was like, okay, I've seen this. I've seen this before. um Similarly with the drama um drama party and then the acid trip scene.
01:25:15
Alex
which I fucking love on a filmmaking level because I love that stop-motion sequence where they're, you know, where they turn into Barbie dolls and they're they're talking about the weird anatomy of the Barbie dolls and it's such a great ah visualization of, you know, two teenagers on an acid trip.
01:25:21
Killer Kyle
Yeah.
01:25:35
Alex
But scenes like that just felt, yeah um, too much like they were giving these arbitrary ah hurdles for them to overcome on the way to the party. um And luckily, once we get to the party, it all clicked for me. ah Probably with that scene that that you were describing, Kyle, ah that really great virtuoso kind of single take that starts in the pool, ends with the fight. ah just Just great shit. um And i like I like the way it ends. i like um
01:26:08
Alex
that they do both go their separate ways. um And it's it's just got a great last scene where, you know, you think she's dropping her off at the airport and it's like, do you want to get fucking pancakes or whatever? And it's it's just a great comedy beat and it's a great friendship beat to your point, Kyle, about wanting to extend those moments that you have with a close friend where you know you're not going to see each other for a long period of time, and you're really trying to elongate that interaction. um Yeah, I i really liked this, even with those caveats I mentioned. and ah Dustin, what about you?
01:26:47
dustinzick
Yeah, I mean, I kind of echo a lot of things both of you said, so I don't want to like, I know we're kind of nearing our typical time limit for these. I think for me, the two things that three things that like really elevate this movie to me like I think about Superbad and how much I love that movie coming out and I don't disagree with you Kyle that like these are two very different movies and In how they go about conveying their message and things like that and telling their stories But you can't not compare them because and and no matter what they're they're very complementary to each other um and like
01:27:23
Killer Kyle
Yeah.
01:27:30
dustinzick
I think Superbad came out in 2007. So I was already two years into college when that came out, but it still feels like, oh, that's my generations, like two high school, quote unquote losers, you know, trying to like party at the end of high school movie. Um, but I like this one so
Comparisons and Character Depth
01:27:46
dustinzick
much better. I mean, I, I do as super, super bad has a ah soft spot for me, but it also feels like a lot of those Judd Apatow movies from like the 2000s, like haven't aged super,
01:27:59
dustinzick
very well, necessarily. And i I feel like whenever I go back and revisit it, I'll be like, oh, yeah, this is this is fine, whatever. ah But like this movie to me, like and super bad doesn't really do this too much. But like I've always struggled with and I think we've talked about this on the podcast with like coming of age movies in high school where You're typically almost always following a like the loner or the loser kid, the geek, and they're getting bullied and things like that. And like I was a geek in high school. I never really got bullied. um This movie feels.
01:28:40
dustinzick
like an extension of kind of my high school experience in a way where I don't think I ever had that moment that they have where they show up at the party at the end and they're like everybody's like super happy to see them all these people that they had built up as these people they never wanted like that never wanted anything to do with them and they never wanted anything to do with these people and they get there and everybody's like, oh shit, you're here. This is awesome. Like, this is the coolest thing. And it's not just like ah um a initial like welcome, like they kind of see it through and even ah the vice president that Molly's into that that doesn't pan out, but he still he engages with her at a certain level beyond what she well expected kind of a thing.
01:29:25
dustinzick
um i never had that kind of moment with like the popular people in high school but i do feel like the moments that i like ran into them outside of school or whatever like it was a much nicer kind of relationship than i expected it or whatever like nicer exchange whatever and so like i appreciate that this movie like didn't put any effort into like, oh yeah, but there's this one like real bully who's really a dick kind of a thing.
01:29:25
Killer Kyle
I guess.
01:29:51
dustinzick
and we Like i I'm glad that trope wasn't in here. um I really love, I love Caitlin Deaver as an actress. Like she's phenomenal.
01:30:03
dustinzick
Have either of you watched Justified before?
01:30:07
Killer Kyle
No.
01:30:07
dustinzick
With um, I forget what his name is but anyways like fantastic tv show and that was where she got her like one of her first big starts when she was really young and She was phenomenal in that um, and I feel like there's there was a moment early on when uh molly after molly has like her breakdown in school when she realizes all these kids are going to like big schools and her and and molly are like at the top of like a a hill or whatever and her and
01:30:40
dustinzick
love calin why i thinking king a Molly and Amy are at the top of a hill and Molly hasn't said anything and Caitlin's like, or Amy's playing a guitar about like, oh, if you're not gonna say, like I was laughing so hard at that sequence.
01:30:43
Alex
Amen.
01:30:49
Killer Kyle
Yes.
01:30:53
dustinzick
um And so like that performance I think is is fantastic. I love the score, like the the score and the soundtrack to this like all really works. There's some great like kind of needle drops as you both talked about.
01:31:06
dustinzick
And I mean, i I hear what you're saying, Alex, about like a lot of the periphery like characters feeling somewhat cartoonish. I mean, I think the the the obvious example of that is like Gigi being like this weird like manic pixie dream girl kind of a thing.
01:31:23
Alex
Right.
01:31:24
dustinzick
um But I think And you kind of alluded to this. reading between the I just noticed that this calendar on my wall has October spelled with two O's at the beginning of it. Funny.
01:31:37
dustinzick
um so um you here You guys can see it too. Look at this. Two O's. woktuber
01:31:47
Killer Kyle
okay
01:31:49
dustinzick
My friend that gave that to me like works for the company that prints it, so I'm going to have to text her and tell her that.
01:31:54
Killer Kyle
Yeah, definitely.
01:31:59
dustinzick
Oh, I think that like them being like these cartoonic cartoonic and word cartoony uh monoliths that Amy and Molly more specifically have kind of painted in their narrative of these are my classmates in school and Devin is the rich guy that and we I mean we see it playing out uh but he's like the rich guy who thinks he's like hot shit the the two uh theater kids I mean we don't really get much more depth to them but like
01:32:30
dustinzick
The two theater kids are who they are. Gigi is who she is. ah The vice president is like this party guy kind of a thing. Like we're seeing these characters through their lens of experience. And then as we get once we get to the party, we get to see a little more depth to each of these characters beyond the superficiality that like Molly and Amy had kind of painted them with. And so I think that was somewhat deliberate, but like also another way of looking at it is in this lines up with the the hallucination scene when they're both Barbie dolls is like it is meant to be goofy. It is meant to be kind of cartoony, kind of ah slightly above reality, but not like fantasy kind of a thing. um And so like I just think it's like
01:33:20
dustinzick
It's fun. i I am grateful that we are at a point ah where a movie like this can be made where one of the main characters is gay and already came out and we're like, it's not, you know, it's like the newest Spider-Man movies where we're not in the newer Batman movies where we're not seeing the freaking origin story anymore. Like,
01:33:44
dustinzick
where sometimes I'm happy to be past a point where like the crux of a a narrative in A Coming of Mage movie has to be the the character's anxiety over coming out. Not that that's still valid and or isn't valid anymore. It totally is. ah But I like that this story is just like, oh, she's coming out and what we're looking at more is like, oh, she has a huge crush on this girl and like that up and down. And then she Makes it with another girl that she didn't even know that she had a crush on kind of thing like I thought Yeah, yeah, so like I love that I love the fact that the the two theater kids like are just you know flamboyant as hell and like just accepted and they're like, that's just who they are their personalities like I I feel like this is a
01:34:14
Alex
Yeah. I mean, that was a nice choice that Amy gets the hookup narrative, not Molly.
01:34:39
dustinzick
Movie that makes me wish that this was the high school I went to not that my high school experience was traumatic or ah it was more boring than anything and like this seems like a Maybe it's unrealistic because I don't know how the fuck high school is has been for the last 20 years but seems like a pretty Ultimately positive high school environment to be in and realistic or not like I like seeing that on screen and I like that there's really no like There's no like villain in this movie which I think is you Even a a a minor villain Inconsequential to the story there is none um ah Short of the the pizza delivery guy.
01:35:25
Alex
Right. I mean, totally.
01:35:27
dustinzick
That's the serial killer. He's the villain in this movie
01:35:30
Killer Kyle
Yeah.
01:35:30
Alex
totally
01:35:31
Alex
But yeah, even like the jock character who like would usually be the villain is is a really nice guy, the vice president. And he's genuinely attracted to Molly and like they have a really nice rapport. And that was, yeah, very heartwarming to see. And I i totally agree about seeing this and being like, oh,
01:35:51
Alex
That this seems like a nice high school experience because that's one of the big
Breaking Stereotypes in 'Booksmart'
01:35:55
Alex
themes, right? Is that this stratification that we think happens and is such a core part of the high school experience where you got your nerds, you got your people who are academically successful, you got your burnouts. And this movie is saying like.
01:36:11
Alex
Those divisions don't really exist anymore, or at least in the context of this story. That's that's part of the big reveal that sets this whole ah plot into motion is Molly's realization that, oh, these people who I thought were, you know,
01:36:29
Alex
fucking off and not caring about school are actually academic high performers just like me. ah So I thought that was really refreshing to see and makes me, yeah, like both of you are saying, makes me excited to see this. And I think it's one of those high school movies that's going to be, um you know, just part of the rotation when you're you want a good feel good story like this.
01:36:53
dustinzick
Yeah, absolutely.
01:36:54
Killer Kyle
yeah like this is this is ah Yeah, this is a movie that I want to show like my nephew when they're 16, 17, 18 or whatever. And yeah it's interesting to have a movie that certainly has love interests that are you know around, but not like not truly make or break, more like pushing the movie forward.
01:37:09
dustinzick
No, that's.
01:37:10
Killer Kyle
You know what I mean? And there like we said, there isn't a villain. So we have a movie that doesn't really have a huge villain and doesn't really have like a, oh my God, this love interest is everything to me. You know what I mean?
01:37:20
dustinzick
yeah
01:37:20
Killer Kyle
Type of stuff. And I think that that in and of itself is like kind of an accomplishment to make an entertaining movie without those two elements. And I i do like the way that they they set everyone up as these Like we said, cartoonish others that are, oh, they're the popular kids, they're the cool kids, they're the kids that are doing whatever they want and they're not going to make it in life. And then how from the scene in the bathroom when you know she overhears them talking shit about her, Molly overhears them, and how they all, like we've said, get this level of depth throughout.
01:37:53
Killer Kyle
whether it's through like big one-on-one conversations with emotional vulnerability or just through through you know the casual stuff like when they're playing beer pong. You know what I mean?
01:38:03
Killer Kyle
When Molly and Nick are playing beer pong and stuff like that.
01:38:05
dustinzick
Mmhmm.
01:38:06
Killer Kyle
like there' is And I kind of like how this end of high school involves Jason Sudeikis and the teacher, I can't remember her name now, but um how they are also like, there's this rising of, oh, you know, we're we're all leaving this weird thing of high school and we are all actually human beings. And it's it's going to be complicated and messy throughout, but there's there's no longer this, we're kids and they're adults. And then the adults are also lowering themselves with having to do
01:38:39
Killer Kyle
They're coming into the the high schoolers world with wanting to be involved in their lives or having to work a second job or whatever in That being I don't know. I liked how it all just kind of it kind of got together and then yeah at the end there is you know, she has that she gets she she gets a number of of Of the girl that she threw up on which is shocking and amazing Um, but uh, but that but even that's like that's not the end of the movie.
01:38:51
Alex
Yeah, that's nice.
01:39:01
Killer Kyle
There's not like oh, what are you gonna call her?
01:39:03
dustinzick
Yeah.
01:39:03
Killer Kyle
I don't know i'm going to africa for a year, you know what I mean like um
01:39:05
dustinzick
Yeah, yeah.
01:39:06
Alex
right
01:39:06
dustinzick
one I love the fact that you know both when they get to the party, both of their crushes, you know the the ruinous moment for each of them at the party is both of their crushes making out with each other, which they see at different times.
01:39:20
dustinzick
But the fact that like by the next morning, like neither of them even mentioned that. The fact that they realized as characters that like Yeah, that sucked. That sucked in that moment big time, but that's not the end of the world. that's not you know My entire existence is not not crumbling or anything like that. For Amy, it seemed like it was a big win in the big picture kind of a thing. And Molly just is like, yeah, like that sucks, but you know it is what it is kind of a thing.
01:39:48
dustinzick
um I appreciated the fact that, like like you had said, Kyle, those crushes and those love interest kind of thing wasn't a linchpin of the story and of these character arcs. like it was It was part of it. There was the reason that Amy wanted to, you know not even really why they wanted to go to the party, but something they both wanted to accomplish at the party, but it was largely inconsequential. And I think, I mean,
01:40:17
dustinzick
altruistically, that's a great message for kids and everything. But also it's just, yeah, it's another example of them kind of like shirking stereotypes for coming of age high school movies like this, where the crush is a huge, huge piece of like the story that's
Rewatchability and Film Rankings
01:40:31
dustinzick
being told. And here it's like, yeah, like your high school crush is very unlikely to be anything beyond a crush.
01:40:39
Killer Kyle
since Yeah, yeah, definitely. Well, yeah, I enjoyed it thoroughly on on this watch, and I'll watch it many more times, I'm sure. All right, well, let's let's get on to some rankings.
01:40:49
Killer Kyle
Let's wrap it up. Alex, what do you what do you got here? Or do we have to have we have more?
01:40:55
Killer Kyle
I don't want to miss anything.
01:40:55
dustinzick
No, no.
01:40:56
Alex
Now, now let's get into some rankings.
01:40:56
Killer Kyle
Okay, Alex.
01:40:58
Alex
ah So I think ah number three is going to be Promising Young Women. ah Number two is going to be Booksmart. And number one is going to be Little Women for me.
01:41:11
Alex
No surprises here. Dustin, what about you?
01:41:14
dustinzick
Yeah, three is a promising young women. I think two two and one are are pretty tightly tied here, but i I'd have to say Little Woman for two and then Booksmart for one because I feel like Booksmart is just like the most rewatchable of these three for me and like that's the one I can see going back to the most. I'm sure I'll rewatch Little Woman at some point or if my wife is watching it, I'll be fine watching it.
01:41:39
dustinzick
But Booksmart, I can see myself. i'm I'm disappointed it took me so long sensing it in the theater to rewatch it because I enjoyed it thoroughly rewatching it.
01:41:48
Killer Kyle
Hey, well, you know, that's why we're doing the pod, baby. That's, that's good. Glad it, glad I got you to do that.
01:41:52
dustinzick
me
01:41:52
Killer Kyle
um Yeah, for me, three is little women. um And two in one is, is, it really is like a, what ah what what am I ranking on, right?
01:42:04
Killer Kyle
Because I agree with like the rewatchability of Booksmart, the amount of times I've watched it, the amount of times I know I'm going to watch it. is is is a factor. Promising a young woman though, I think I'm gonna put Booksmart 2 and Promising a Young Woman 1.
01:42:16
Killer Kyle
And I think I'm gonna put Promising a Young Woman 1 because it's a movie that if I start it,
01:42:17
Alex
Nice.
01:42:23
Killer Kyle
And let's say I i started at 12 midnight and I fall asleep and I wake up, I'm going to finish it the next day at some point. I'm going to like find where I was and finish it. And and Booksmart is something that like, oh, I could put on for 25 minutes and walk away from and be like, I don't know. and there's That was wonderful 25 minutes and now we've moved on, ah much like their crushes. And ah and and so there's something, and and there's also like, I want to share Booksmart with with people in a way that's like fun, um but it's not,
01:42:54
Killer Kyle
there's ah There's a level of sharing that I want to do with Promising Young Women. And the style of Booksmart is great. it's It's well shot. It's all the all the ah the director and and editor and, you know, all that stuff is, I think,
01:43:09
Killer Kyle
wonderfully done. But there are choices made in promising a woman that I just stoke up as like a film person that for me are just candy um amid all the horror that's going on. So yeah, that's I'm gonna go promising a woman one.
01:43:26
dustinzick
Awesome. Well, we'll wrap up the episode there and we'll hope you tune in next week.
01:43:35
Alex
Great talk, y'all.
01:43:35
Killer Kyle
Yes, indeed. See,