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00:00:01
Enclosed Spaces
0 Plays2 seconds ago
Kyle threads the needle through three movies linked (mostly) by a theme of enclosed spaces.
Bringing Out the Dead (1999) - 30:58
- Room (2015) - 09:35
- Panic Room (2002) - 40:45
- Carnage (2011) - 01:12:15
Triple Take Cinema is where your hosts, Dustin, Alex, and Kyle, dive into three movies with a twist. In each episode, one of us takes the reins and picks a theme—whether it’s a wild connection or a subtle thread—and assigns three movies that fit the bill.
We all watch, and then the real fun begins as we dish out our takes.
There are no rules and no limits—just a wild ride through movies we love, movies we've never seen, and a few we hope to forget.
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Transcript
Introduction and Theme Setup
00:00:03
Brooklyn Brown
Oh, yes. Hello and welcome to a Triple Take Cinema. I am Kyle. I'm here with my co-hosts, Dustin and Alex, as always. Repeat listeners, we love you. Thank you for coming back to the show.
00:00:14
Brooklyn Brown
We are talking about what I thought was a theme of, you know, movies that take place in small spaces and are kind of like confined to a room.
00:00:26
Brooklyn Brown
And then I was like, wait a second, maybe this is just a week about Jodie Foster. And then I was like, wait a second, I think this is just a week about movies about parenting. um So
Film Selection and Initial Impressions
00:00:36
Brooklyn Brown
here we are. And I will tell you about the three movies that we actually watched for this episode, which I was very excited to do and I enjoyed thoroughly.
00:00:44
Brooklyn Brown
We watched Carnage. This a Roman Polanski movie based on a French play. um We watched Room starring Brie Larson. And we watched Panic Room, my original Fincher ah enjoyment, which also stars Jodie Foster.
00:01:02
Brooklyn Brown
and And it kind of got me really into Forrest Whitaker when i was when I was a youth, when I started watching this stuff. So yeah, that's those are the those are the three movies that we got into this week. I'm excited to discuss them. I'm going to kick it to Alex. Alex, what was your ah familiarity with this ah this triad?
00:01:22
Alex
Yeah, so Panic Room, I feel like infamously from our text threads, is a major Fincher blind spot for me. ah Really enjoyed checking that out off the list.
00:01:33
Alex
ah Room with Brie Larson, I think I was vaguely aware of its existence, but didn't know much about the plot or the shape of it or even the single setting premise.
00:01:44
Alex
And Carnage was not on my radar whatsoever. I did not, though, there was a film directed by Roman Polanski and starring Jodie Foster, Kate Winslet, Christoph Waltz, and John C.
00:01:56
Alex
Reilly as our quartet.
00:01:59
Brooklyn Brown
Thank you.
00:02:00
Alex
um So that was a revelation ah for me. Did not know it existed. Dustin, what about you?
Personal Experiences with 'Panic Room'
00:02:07
Dustin Zick
Yeah, I much in the same way as Kyle as far as Panic Room goes. That was my first... think that was my first Fincher for Ray. Or did I see Fight Club first? I probably saw Panic Room first because I feel like I saw Panic Room in the theaters and absolutely loved it. That was probably my first like significant exposure to Forrest Whitaker, understanding who he was.
00:02:34
Dustin Zick
ah don't think i knew and honestly was Jared Leto even like important at that point? I don't know. um I fucking hate Jared Leto, like with every ounce in my body.
00:02:45
Brooklyn Brown
Thank
00:02:47
Alex
Yeah, to that I would ask, is he important now?
00:02:47
Dustin Zick
um
00:02:49
Brooklyn Brown
you.
00:02:50
Dustin Zick
Yeah, well, fair. But was he more known then than he is now?
00:02:54
Alex
Valid.
00:02:54
Dustin Zick
um Certainly not more. But was he as known and as he is now? Probably not. Anyways, do think he's really good in this movie, but he plays a total dick in this movie, which is like he's playing himself.
00:03:05
Alex
Yep.
00:03:07
Dustin Zick
um And then also, ah i don't know about you guys, but Panic Room is really my sole exposure to Dwight Yoakam as an actor or as an individual in an existing ah But I know he's a fairly accomplished musician, but I only know him as Raoul from Panic Room.
00:03:23
Dustin Zick
Oh, that's right.
00:03:24
Alex
He has a great turn as a doctor in the Jason Statham movie Crank, ah was my my other Dwight Yoakam exposure.
00:03:29
Dustin Zick
ah oh that's right Yeah.
00:03:29
Brooklyn Brown
a
00:03:33
Dustin Zick
Yeah, i forgot about that. Oh man, those crank movies are something else for
Nostalgia and Related Films
00:03:39
Dustin Zick
sure.
00:03:39
Brooklyn Brown
Yeah, we might.
00:03:39
Dustin Zick
i don't i don't I wonder if those would hold up the test of time from like being drunk in college watching those, because those were great for those moments, but I feel like going back to it.
00:03:50
Brooklyn Brown
Dangerous. It's a dangerous game going back to crank.
00:03:52
Dustin Zick
Yeah. Anyway, so
00:03:53
Brooklyn Brown
In every sense of that sentence.
00:03:55
Dustin Zick
um So yeah, Panic Room, big fan. Carnage, i think I had maybe seen in just flicking through streaming and was like, mo well, not a huge turnoff or anything.
00:04:00
Brooklyn Brown
Out.
00:04:09
Dustin Zick
Didn't really associate it with Roman Polanski or anything like that. um And then Room, I was familiar with. I'm a big Brie Larson fan. i really love, if you've never seen it, Short Term 12, which is like her first leading role.
00:04:21
Brooklyn Brown
um
00:04:22
Dustin Zick
like I really love that movie so much. um So Room had definitely like been on my radar, but it just kind of felt like, oh, like kind of a certain...
00:04:33
Brooklyn Brown
It's tough one.
00:04:34
Dustin Zick
like kind of like I mean, it's kind of one of those movies where it's like, i really want... want this story.
00:04:40
Alex
Right.
Discussing 'Room': Emotions and Performances
00:04:41
Dustin Zick
um i mean, ah kind of a similar way. I, big blind spot I have is I've never seen Schindler's list. um And i I, I, I know I need to, but like, I have friends, a couple like that I'm friends with and and watch a lot of movies with. And the two of them watched it recently and were telling me about it. and they were like,
00:05:00
Dustin Zick
yeah, we watched Schindler's List because we saw it was leaving Netflix and we were like, we should probably watch this. And they're like, yeah, like, and don't want to say I'm glad I watched it, but, you know, like, I'm not, not glad I watched it, but glad is not a right word for it. And I'm like, yeah, like, it's the kind of thing where like, you really have to like be in a mood to know that you're going to feel even shittier coming out of it, but that's not necessarily and indicative of a poor movie kind of a thing.
00:05:28
Dustin Zick
and that's how I kind of felt about Room. and like I had never been in the mood to watch it, but it was never because I was like, oh, I think this movie's going to be bad. was just kind of like, oh, it's a story I really don't feel like I need to spend two hours with.
00:05:42
Dustin Zick
But I'm really glad we watched it for this podcast because I didn't hate it.
00:05:42
Brooklyn Brown
Right.
00:05:46
Dustin Zick
I enjoyed it for what it was. And I think, Alex, you put it lightly like it had a softer touch than I thought it was going to, which I appreciated because I didn't really need like truly like the world is a terrible place when I can just like pull up the news and get that from there.
00:06:03
Dustin Zick
So, yeah, that's my exposure to the three of these.
00:06:08
Brooklyn Brown
Yeah, I mean, i yeah I think we're probably both selling ourselves a little short on the David Fincher, but I'll maybe speak and and you can you can correct me if I'm wrong, Dustin. I loved Seven and knew, and obviously like I'd seen Seven multiple times well before Panic Room had come out, but it was not at a time where I knew or cared about David Fincher.
00:06:26
Brooklyn Brown
right like it was not a yeah guy I didn't watch Seven and wait for the credits roll and start you know ah checking boxes on the movies of directors I had seen and all that stuff. I just wasn't
David Fincher's Directional Style
00:06:37
Brooklyn Brown
there as a movie watcher.
00:06:38
Brooklyn Brown
And so I feel like Panic Room was the first time I saw a movie knowing the director being like, oh, I'm excited for this movie because this director is supposed to be a very good type of thing. Um, but, uh, but yeah, I had seen panic room. I saw in the theaters. I've seen it and ah multiple times over the past few years. I hadn't watched it in a while, maybe five, six, seven years. Uh, so I was kind of excited to, to get back to it and use the idea of like some movies that take place in smaller spaces to kind of put that in
Parenting Themes Across Films
00:07:05
Brooklyn Brown
there. Um, I had seen carnage a long, long, long time ago when it came out.
00:07:11
Brooklyn Brown
Um, And this was, yeah, this was, this was, Carnage was actually, I think maybe my first experience with Christoph Walls, maybe my second after Inglourious Basterds. I can't, I can't remember exactly the timeline, but yeah. And I've always been a Kate Winslet fan and a John C. Reilly fan. Jodie Foster was kind of the odd person out in that one for me, but I think she did very well. We'll get into that.
00:07:31
Brooklyn Brown
Um, And it was very fun watching Carnage Now after having been a parent, whereas watching that before, ah when I was very far away from parentage in every sense of that word. yeah, Room was my blind spot. And Room was one that actually didn't know.
00:07:51
Brooklyn Brown
ah didn't know the...
00:07:53
Dustin Zick
the director because right before hit record you didn't know the director
00:07:55
Brooklyn Brown
I certainly didn't know the director. I certainly didn't know the director.
00:07:58
Alex
Thank you.
00:07:59
Brooklyn Brown
Some would say I still don't. um But I didn't know the director, but I also didn't know the kind of... I knew like this idea that there was a woman living with a child in a very small space they couldn't get out of, but I didn't know anything about the larger context of how they got in or why they were there or why they couldn't get out. So I didn't have the same...
00:08:20
Brooklyn Brown
trepidation maybe about, about watching it, um, that you guys maybe would have experienced or, mean, trepidation is probably not the right, sort a strong word, but just kind of like, it just doesn't, you know, you just don't choose that on a Saturday night all that often. and Um, so I'm happy to, to be able to push it through. I can never get my wife to watch it. Cause I think she had actually looked it up and was like, that sounds terrible.
00:08:39
Brooklyn Brown
Um, and, and so, yeah, I'm, uh, that was, that was my big blind spot on this one, but I was happy to return to a couple of movies that I had not seen in a long time. um kind of when it comes to all that. So yeah, and I have a very weird thing where lot sometimes people don't want to watch depressing movies when they're feeling low and I am the exact opposite and I go hard in the other direction.
00:09:06
Brooklyn Brown
so it's like, oh, I'm just
00:09:06
Alex
yeah you gotta you gotta marinate in that shit
00:09:09
Brooklyn Brown
You got marinate, but also like I, and so we right now I'm watching a lot of like yeah ER r in the pit and and my wife can't handle it. She's like, everything is bad. It's happening on the show. It's just like a never ending bad. I'm like, well, yeah, it's an yeah ER. There's literally nothing good that happens there.
00:09:24
Brooklyn Brown
And two, ah all these people are much worse off than whatever happened like crap I'm dealing with. Like my, my stuff is insignificant compared to the life and death situations these people are dealing with. So yeah,
00:09:35
Brooklyn Brown
I tend to, I tend to, I tend to get into the, into the shit when I'm trying to feel better, which is a very bizarre thing. But yeah, let's, ah let's, I feel like let's, let's get right into room. I feel like let's start with room and, and then go panic and then go to carnage. Cause I'm kind of curious to end there, but I did also, I think I mentioned this in the intro, but I did, it did strike me while we were watching carnage.
00:09:58
Brooklyn Brown
um How much all these movies are about parenting. Yeah.
00:10:02
Dustin Zick
Yeah, that's the common thread here. Like, yeah.
00:10:04
Brooklyn Brown
Yeah.
00:10:05
Dustin Zick
I mean, loosely, like, The Room, the your original intent of The Room, but ironically, Room is the movie that loses that, the strongest of the three, I feel like.
00:10:15
Brooklyn Brown
yeah
00:10:17
Dustin Zick
Yeah.
00:10:17
Brooklyn Brown
Yes, absolutely.
00:10:19
Dustin Zick
and And then, yeah, obviously, no Jodie Foster in Room, and there's really half-assing that. So I think the parenting the parenting note is the kind commonality between the three of these.
00:10:29
Brooklyn Brown
No.
00:10:32
Brooklyn Brown
it really It really is. Well, but Dustin, give me your give me your thoughts on room. I'll kick it off to you.
00:10:37
Dustin Zick
Yeah, you know, so I feel like, you know, it's it not funny. the The term, you know, in that colloquial term of, it's funny that you feel like you said that you weren't really as familiar with, like, the background of the story here, because I feel like I knew...
00:10:55
Dustin Zick
I always assumed this was, what's her name? It wasn't a, I want to say it was Duggar, but it wasn't a Duggar person. um There's that famous story of a woman who this happened to, and she escaped sometime in the 2010s. I want to say, if not the 2010s, it was like 2008, 2009. And she had a kid with her captor and she lived in a shed in their backyard.
00:11:18
Dustin Zick
But with her, it got to the point where the captor, um and her captor may have had like a wife too but he like let her go to the store and stuff and she like i don't think it was actually stockholm syndrome diagnosed but like essentially like same kind of deal where she like was somewhat brainwashed into like not running away or escaping or or was beholden to her child that she had or whatever it was so like i knew going into this that that was kind of the the theme of the story um i don't
00:11:21
Brooklyn Brown
so
00:11:49
Dustin Zick
What I didn't know going into this was that the escape was going to happen and that was going to be halfway through the film. um Like, I guess I had assumed it was going to be either like the crux of the film was her escaping with her son
00:12:05
Brooklyn Brown
Thank you.
00:12:06
Dustin Zick
um or alternatively halfway through the film she escapes and then the second half becomes like a courtroom drama or something like that i thought that was really interesting the fact that as soon as like even before she escaped uh ultimately once her son escaped that was the last we saw of what was it old nick that they called him the guy who abducted her like that was it yeah presumably he got arrested
00:12:28
Alex
Mm-hmm.
00:12:32
Dustin Zick
alive um and and went to court and everything but we we heard a little bit of that from her dad but like we didn't really that wasn't any part of the story that they sought to tell or anything like that um yeah i i enjoyed this i was really
00:12:35
Brooklyn Brown
Thank you.
00:12:52
Dustin Zick
I thought the two strongest performances were her mother, Joan Allen, I thought was really, really good. um and then Jacob Tremblay is just an amazing actor.
00:13:04
Dustin Zick
And have either of you seen ah doctor Sleep? the
00:13:09
Brooklyn Brown
Yeah.
00:13:09
Alex
Yes.
00:13:10
Dustin Zick
ah So he's he's it's not it's kind of a bit part. it's not a it's He's not the main character in Doctor Sleep or anything. But he is's like suit like his character is murdered in Doctor Sleep and like not in a pleasant way.
00:13:26
Dustin Zick
And I remember they were like, um what's her name? the row The actress who plays Rose the Hat, like the main villain in Dr. Sleep, but um did like an interview where she said she was like so distraught from like the scene where she was like torturing his character and how well he played it.
00:13:46
Dustin Zick
and how trippy it was for her. like As soon as the director called Cut, like Jacob Tremblay just sat up and was like, all right, guys, let's go get some coffee. or like was just kind of and I mean, he's older and Doctor Sleep, but he's still 12. It just kind of hones into, like yeah, like for a movie like this that's telling you the story, not just...
00:14:07
Dustin Zick
about the woman that was kept uh held captive but her son that she had and how important he was to the story and her story and everything like you needed a kid who who could like bat a thousand for this and this was that a kid um i can't think of another like child actor today that i feel like could
00:14:08
Brooklyn Brown
Thank you.
00:14:26
Dustin Zick
and ah in my lifetime that I feel like could have performed this as well and and just felt as real and authentic in that role. And so, yeah, I mean, i feel like this was, it wasn't as, don't,
00:14:40
Brooklyn Brown
Thank you.
00:14:43
Dustin Zick
you know, the subject matter is heavy no matter how you you look at it, but it wasn't as rooted in the negative of that experience where think the only positive that came out of this experience for her was having her son and loving him the way that she did and for who he was and not where he came from kind of a thing. And their relationship was such a huge highlight of the movie that like that softer touch kind of came in in that regard. It was really about the two of them and their relationship and how they helped each other survive, even though,
00:15:22
Dustin Zick
Leo, the kid, didn't... Oh, no, not Leo. whats
00:15:26
Brooklyn Brown
so
00:15:27
Dustin Zick
I should have this up. Jack, right? Yeah. Jack not being... um Not knowing how his like what ah his mother did to keep him alive kind of a thing.
00:15:43
Dustin Zick
um But the fact the two of them played off each other so well I thought was so powerful and... enjoyable to kind of watch and just see his exploration and openness come to the world in that way.
00:15:55
Dustin Zick
And then Brie Larson was just kind of fantastic through and through with everything she did. But like her interactions with her mom, um once she got out, I thought were really strong. I really did like, I'm not a huge fan of William H. Macy. Like, I don't know.
00:16:12
Dustin Zick
I think sometimes my head is like clouded when I think of um his wife getting arrested for the the college. they They got their daughter, the
00:16:24
Brooklyn Brown
Oh, the scandal.
00:16:25
Dustin Zick
Yeah, yeah. And what was this wife's in Felicity Hoffman or whatever?
00:16:26
Alex
Oh, that's right.
00:16:29
Brooklyn Brown
yeah, it was Blizzie.
00:16:31
Dustin Zick
um and she got arrested for it and had to serve some jail time but i'm like he probably had something to do with this too like there's no way he didn't know what was going on so like i'm always clouded with that ever since that happened but i did really like um the guy that joan allen remarried leo like his character and how he interacted with jack i thought was like really great and subtle and just like that juxtaposition to William H.
00:17:01
Dustin Zick
Macy's character as Brie Larson's actual dad, not being able to accept Jack knowing where he came from, but her stepfather ostensibly like,
00:17:03
Brooklyn Brown
Thank
00:17:12
Dustin Zick
didn't even need to have like a conversation or anything. He just was like, yeah, I'm just here. Like, I just want to be stable. And as a dog lover, like when he came with his dog and like seeing them and like all of that just was like very, like, don't know. It just felt very powerful and authentic to me.
00:17:33
Dustin Zick
And so, yeah, I think this was for the subject matter of this film. This was way, I'm hesitant to use the word enjoyable, but I'm lacking a better word right now. This is way more enjoyable of a watch than I thought it was going to be given the subject matter that it had.
00:17:52
Dustin Zick
Now, I feel like you could make an argument that that maybe not detrimental, but that there could have been a deeper kind of...
00:17:54
Brooklyn Brown
Thank you.
00:18:01
Dustin Zick
I don't know, commentary on shit with this, but I think the, the narrative and the story it told about the power of a mother's love for her son and then equally, a mother's love for her daughter and a son's love for his mother, like, and and what that can aspire to, I think was pretty strong.
00:18:21
Dustin Zick
Um, almost to the point of schmaltzy, but not quite getting there for me. Like, I think the fact, like, the subject matter of it and getting exposure to that to some extent in the first half of the movie stopped it from getting too schmaltzy.
00:18:33
Brooklyn Brown
Thank you.
00:18:37
Dustin Zick
Like, if this had been a movie that within the first five minutes it portrayed their escape and what that was, and that was it, um I think it could have been much more schmaltzy if it had been done that way, but the balance of, like, spending time with them in room And then post room, think helped it feel heavy and weighty, but also like hopeful, which very easily could have been done differently for artistic reasons or storytelling purposes. But I'm glad the way it was.
00:19:09
Dustin Zick
I'll kick it over to one of you guys.
00:19:11
Brooklyn Brown
Alex, take it away.
00:19:13
Alex
Yeah, Dustin, I think you nailed it. um I really appreciated the restraints here. And I think it was a really smart decision to affix the POV so firmly to Jack.
00:19:27
Alex
And those first scenes we get in Room really set the tone where we're seeing Room through Jack's perspective and You know, he's looking up at the skylight. He's like focusing really intently at all these, um, like aspects and naming them.
00:19:45
Alex
And there's just such a warmth and tenderness to his perspective and to his fondness for Rung that I think, um, is a really smart way to wrap your your arms around a subject that if you just read like a two sentence description of what's actually happening here, it makes your stomach churn.
00:20:07
Alex
But seeing it through Jack's eyes almost makes it easy to kind of process um like how horrific that is. um And I read some reviews that described those early scenes as being kind of clumsy or amateurish in the way that they were filmed.
00:20:28
Alex
And I didn't necessarily agree with that. I thought they were kind of deliberately um had this kind of hazy, gauzy sheen to them because we're seeing them through five-year-old dice, essentially.
00:20:41
Alex
um And we're seeing them kind of like... filtered through that that wonder and that like kind of sun dappled visual aesthetic that I think is really strong in those are early scenes in Room.
00:20:54
Alex
um I kept thinking back to ah Cormac McCarthy's The Road and then the movie adaptation of that. know if you guys are familiar with that story, but it's you know similar vibes of ah ah father and or a parent and a child being stuck in like impossibly harrowing situation and the love that a parent has for their child and the humanity present there.
00:21:22
Alex
um you know, being their way through kind of this hellish nightmarish reality, um,
00:21:28
Dustin Zick
I just want to interject and say that I saw the road with my mom and stepdad for what I believe was my stepdad's birthday.
00:21:35
Alex
ah
00:21:36
Dustin Zick
and, and, and I'm not sure.
00:21:38
Brooklyn Brown
Light fare. Light fare on that.
00:21:39
Dustin Zick
i'm not, I'm not sure like what the train of thought was because that was definitely like, I think that came out in like 2011 or something. So like definitely like past the point of like excusing like ignorance in terms of what the subject matter was.
00:21:54
Dustin Zick
But I also took my mom to see, A comedy movie with Jenna Elfman, Ben Stiller, and Edward Norton in the 90s for Mother's Day.
00:22:06
Dustin Zick
what was it? Oh, God.
00:22:07
Brooklyn Brown
Saving Silverman?
00:22:09
Dustin Zick
No, not Saving Silverman. but ah Edward Norton plays a priest and Ben Stiller plays a...
00:22:14
Brooklyn Brown
Oh, Jennifer, keeping the faith. Keeping the faith.
00:22:15
Dustin Zick
Keeping the faith. Yep. i we took my mom
00:22:17
Brooklyn Brown
Very good movie.
00:22:18
Dustin Zick
yeah We took my mom to see see that for Mother's Day in like 98 when I was 10. And there's definitely like some light sex scenes in there. And that was awkward, too. ah So we don't have my stepdad and I don't have the best track record for picking family friendly fare to see.
00:22:33
Dustin Zick
But anyways, i and I digress.
00:22:33
Brooklyn Brown
ha, ha, ha
00:22:35
Dustin Zick
Alex, back to you.
00:22:38
Alex
that's fantastic ah yeah and i I just appreciated the restraint again to use the same word in not actually showing the more horrific shit that old Nick does and we're kind of with Jack in the closet while that's happening I think that is really integral to not kind of losing audience buy-in in the story at that point.
00:23:04
Alex
I think it would have been really easy to tune out or shut this off if we had seen too much of, you know, those interactions.
00:23:06
Brooklyn Brown
Thank you.
00:23:12
Alex
um You talked, Dustin, about how good Jacob Tremblay is as Jack. um I won't say I've been lukewarm on Brie Larson, but I feel like I've never really gotten to see her kind of express a dynamic performance that has a wide range.
00:23:31
Alex
Maybe I'm just thinking of some of her stuff, like I think she's pretty flat in Captain Marvel. And, you know, she can kind of have an aloof persona when she's um portraying characters.
00:23:37
Brooklyn Brown
Thank you.
00:23:42
Alex
But here, she is just a fucking powerhouse. And there is so much range that she brings to to Ma. And we see the full gamut of human emotions, I think,
00:23:56
Alex
in these two hours that we get with her um where we see like fear and desperation where she's realizing that oh shit old nick lost his job like he could kill us now because we he can't you know financially support um our material needs like that fear was conveyed really well the desperation to escape but also like the
00:24:02
Brooklyn Brown
so
00:24:21
Alex
the drive to keep things light in the beginning as she's parenting Jack and kind of you know, shields him from everything happening in room to when she ultimately broadens his perspective and brings, um you know, brings his awareness more, ah more open ah by saying, no, the things you see on TV, like there's, there's elements of reality.
00:24:34
Brooklyn Brown
Thank
00:24:45
Alex
I just think she um gives a really dynamic layered performance here that I i appreciated. um Like you, Dustin, liked how, know,
00:24:58
Alex
We got to spend the first half of the movie in room, but then it really opens up when we get to see kind of Ma and Jack's recovery ah in the second half after they escape.
00:25:10
Alex
I think if I did have one beef with this movie, it would be with how the escape scene was kind of staged and executed, where it felt a little bit implausible to me that um old Nick like would just kind of flee after um you know after Jack kind of rolls out of the rolls out of the truck bed um
00:25:33
Brooklyn Brown
Thank
00:25:34
Alex
But I'm willing to give that a pass because the writing I thought was really strong in giving enough justification for why Ma would put him in that situation and why she would feel that desperation to to have him escape.
00:25:49
Alex
um Yeah, I think the... um cinematography does a really good job in the second half of making you still feel like you're in enclosed spaces even though my and jack's world is totally opened up at that point um there's still a sense of confinement um that you get in some of the indoor scenes and i like how for jack that's comforting and for ma that's kind of restrictive um But yeah, I want to hear your overall thoughts, Kyle, and there's a lot that we can kind of unpack on the scene by scene level.
00:26:25
Brooklyn Brown
Yeah, for sure. um ah try to I'll try to take just some, just touch on some different points than you guys, Sandal, because I definitely did enjoy this movie. um It surprised me in a lot of ways, um which is usually happens when you don't know exactly what a movie's about.
00:26:40
Brooklyn Brown
But um ah yeah, like those first scenes and the first half before before the they they get out, ah I was kind of surprised and and impressed by, it's interesting that you read some some critiques of how the the first half was filmed and and they said it was kind of amateurish because I kept thinking to myself while I was watching that,
00:27:04
Brooklyn Brown
It's really amazing. and And not only just how it's filmed, but what what takes place and how they portray old Nick and the relationship between him and Brie Larson, ah him and Ma, and ah and Jack in general, and that whole space and and and how he operates in that space and what they come to expect and just the mechanics of of their their life.
00:27:24
Brooklyn Brown
um and And movies that have abductions in them or or the after effects of abductions, I guess I haven't really seen too many other ones that have just the after effects, but the idea that we never got a flashback of her being abducted and we never really delved into that all that deeply – And you enter this world in ah in a place where the fact that they're there and that she's been there for seven years at this point, um and that Jack has been there for five, obviously his whole life.
00:27:59
Brooklyn Brown
It was kind of amazing how that was handled. like The matter of factness. of their life was kind of shocking when you consider how that life was created.
00:28:10
Brooklyn Brown
And you're just so used to the abduction itself being the star of the show um and and that being the most charged moment. you know I think about, can't remember, did we watch Prisoners for this podcast?
00:28:27
Brooklyn Brown
Or was that maybe one we watched before? Anyway, Prisoners with with Hugh Jackman and and Jake Gyllenhaal, where the the two little girls are are are kidnapped. um That's a great example of like the moment that is so pulsating with drama and emotion is the moment where you of the initial loss.
00:28:46
Brooklyn Brown
And it was just amazing to see a completely different take on that type of event being so far gone. And, you know, like, yeah, Jack does go into the into the wardrobe and knows that these things are happening, but it's kind of like very compartmentalized and.
00:29:05
Brooklyn Brown
um you know the The conversations that Brie Larson has with with oh with ah let's Nick about like needing food and vitamins so that they can be alive in a way that isn't like bad for for them. right like you just You can't just feed us this. and like just the level of That was just that was that was kind of shocking and I think very deftly done. and i'm sure that's This is a book. right this this is This was a book before it was a movie, I want to say.
00:29:32
Brooklyn Brown
um and so i think that that's uh it was just so deftly handled um and in a in a way and in a subject matter that i've just never seen done like that um and so that that was just yeah
00:29:44
Alex
Yeah, to interject real quick, Kyle, like one thing one example of that deafness is when Brie Larson pulls out the tooth. It's such a smart way of articulating the horror of the situation, but she plays it so matter of fact because she has to for Jack.
00:29:53
Brooklyn Brown
yeah
00:30:03
Alex
And then it becomes this like wonderful affirming token of her love for him while still speaking to the abject horror of their situation, just very shrewd.
00:30:13
Brooklyn Brown
Yeah, it really is. And I do agree with you a little bit about the the escape scene. And it was kind of, it's one of those moments in ah in a movie where you're like, I don't know if this is happening too fast.
00:30:29
Brooklyn Brown
and cinematically or if this is just how this would have happened. And I'm so alien to this perspective because I'm ah free person living in the world.
00:30:42
Brooklyn Brown
You know, when, when she kind of makes the turn of like, you know what, my son is old enough to start hearing some of these things in a way that is new and different and I'm not going to protect him and I can use him to save us both.
00:30:56
Brooklyn Brown
Um, that And then kind of how it all went down. i guess I did believe Nick just bailing immediately because I feel like there's, mean, in a lot of ways, right? Like you normalize having a prisoner for seven years. And so when that all falls apart, like your instinct probably is to just run away um and think that you can get away with it because you can't been getting gotten away with it for seven years.
00:31:18
Brooklyn Brown
um But yeah, and and i did I did appreciate the realness of William H. Macy's character not being able to deal with Jack's existence um and it taking this person that was not, you know, Brie Larson's the father to kind of be able to have that space. um But yeah, it really was on on every, I mean, and just the realness of some of those breakdowns where her mom is not just going to kind of roll over.
00:31:47
Brooklyn Brown
and just say, oh yeah, you've been through trauma. It's all like, I'm so sorry. She's like, no, like fighting back and um you know the the the suicide attempt and all the all the very mundane details of like, no, you have to wear a mask and you have to wear sunglasses and your body is not developed in this way. it's just it was all very in in ah It was the right amount of emotion while maintaining hope, which I think is is really an impressive thing to maintain hope throughout almost the whole movie is kind of incredible to accomplish with this, with the subject matter.
00:32:21
Brooklyn Brown
um All the acting was wonderful. I like there just wasn't, I didn't, I just didn't think there was a failed moment in any of it.
00:32:28
Alex
no
00:32:28
Brooklyn Brown
um When it, when it came to any of that, the writing was good. The pacing was good. Like, um and it was, it was tough and it was tough in the right ways. um And yeah, jack Jack's character is amazing. And I do think that by the time,
00:32:46
Brooklyn Brown
ah The final scene was... was a scene that I didn't necessarily expect to happen, but the needing of of closure from that, um Jack needing that, and and how that scene echoed the beginning scene where he's saying good morning to all of the things in room, um and how like we're even we're even adopting the language that Jack had to to speak about this place.
00:33:15
Brooklyn Brown
I think you know that that Jack had this kind of special language about it really
00:33:16
Alex
Right.
00:33:19
Brooklyn Brown
but when this movie came out, I think I was more interested in it epistemologically with regard to a, a a kid growing up in such a small space with no interaction and all those things. And obviously you know now that I'm a parent and, and I picked a whole parenting week, um, that was just, yeah.
00:33:35
Brooklyn Brown
Like in her being willing to go back there and go through that process and that really being like, that was just a really nice coda, um, that didn't keep,
00:33:43
Alex
I agree. And i I love how Brie Larson kind of deflates that code that just a little bit because Jack's having this like you know profound moment of like mirroring the beginning where he's saying goodbye and he's you know processing it.
00:33:57
Alex
And Ma's just kind of like, Jack, can we go? like i don't want to spend more time here. And that was just such a...
00:34:02
Brooklyn Brown
Yeah. Yeah.
00:34:03
Alex
realistic reaction and i liked how underplayed it was for like all of the emotion that jack's reaction is bringing to it it was nice balance
00:34:14
Brooklyn Brown
yeah yeah So, I mean, it was, like you like you said on on kind of the group chat, Alex, like the the soft touch of this movie with the incredible weight of what's happening.
00:34:26
Brooklyn Brown
And, I mean, like we're talking about a movie having a soft touch that involves a seven-year kidnapping and a bunch of rape and a child being born out of that and a suicide attempt and an inability to connect with, like, your people.
00:34:39
Brooklyn Brown
I mean, just the heaviness is insane of what's actually happening.
00:34:41
Dustin Zick
Hmm.
00:34:41
Brooklyn Brown
So to be able to keep people there is just – Yeah, that's where it's like amateurish it was is is kind of a hilarious thing to level this movie because it felt very, very well made, well thought out. And and like everything they decided to show, which obviously there was more that was cut, was it's well spun together.
00:35:02
Brooklyn Brown
I will say this is kind of like, ah unless you guys have more you want to say in it, I will say this is kind of like a a segue to another one. i maybe it's because the characters are so good and the relationships on, on screen were so good in room, but unlike, um, panic room, which, which we can go into next.
00:35:23
Brooklyn Brown
I really felt like an intimate connection to the space in panic room. And I, I was and was kind of shocked when they got out of of the room in room that i I kind of felt like, wow, they really didn't, or I didn't feel like the claustrophobic nature of of that room, which is shocking.
00:35:43
Dustin Zick
Yeah.
00:35:46
Alex
I think that was intentional. I think that was due to the craftsmanship of the cinematography, because you're seeing these little like shots, almost in abstraction.
00:35:48
Brooklyn Brown
Yeah.
00:35:51
Dustin Zick
Yeah.
00:35:51
Brooklyn Brown
Yes.
00:35:55
Alex
And it's setting up that reveal at the end where you come back to Rome and you're kind of like, holy shit, it was that entire space.
00:36:02
Brooklyn Brown
mm-hmm
00:36:02
Alex
And Jack even has that reaction where he's like, did it get smaller? Like what's going on here? um And I think it's because you're seeing that cinematic POV as Jack would see it, where there's almost these little like abstracted glimpses of, you know, him looking at the radiator or him looking at the TV, him looking up at the skylight.
00:36:23
Alex
You're not getting a sense for how all the pieces fit together. And I think that's intentional because if you did, you would kind of be crushed by the weight of how bleak that is to be in a shed like that for for seven years.
00:36:37
Alex
So I think you know keeping it fractured, diffuse, where you're only seeing these little like snapshots of parts of room um you know keeps that reality from being too crushing.
00:36:45
Brooklyn Brown
Thank you.
00:36:51
Dustin Zick
Well, and I think part of it, too, is is the fact that whether, you know, we're seeing so much... I think the whole movie is really through maybe not the exact eyes of Jack, but the the lens of Jack.
00:37:06
Dustin Zick
And so even old Nick, who... We meet a couple times, but we never true. I mean, remember, since he's been alive, like Jack's been sleeping in that closet in the room every night. Like he's been there when all the shit that old Nick has done to Ma has happened.
00:37:25
Dustin Zick
But we don't like I think maybe that speaks to why, Alex, you know, your critique about like his escape and and old Nick.
00:37:27
Brooklyn Brown
Thank you.
00:37:35
Dustin Zick
you know, doesn't really put up a fuss to keep Jack there. Like, that's kind of like how Jack remembers it, how Jack experienced it, because it was kind of, you know, he was there and he tried to grab him and he dragged him away, but Jack ran off and then he just kind of disappeared. And like, there's no, you know, even, even when we, you get back to, ah Ma's parents' house and she's there.
00:38:01
Dustin Zick
Like, even when she has her, her, she attempts suicide.
00:38:01
Brooklyn Brown
Thank you.
00:38:07
Dustin Zick
Like we're never getting it from like the lens of like what she's going through and what's going through her mind. We see it externally. um And in I mean, I think it would be arguably, in my opinion, kind of insufferable if the whole movie was truly from Jack's perspective, right? Like, and we were fully limited to only how he's comprehending things.
00:38:30
Dustin Zick
And I don't honestly know how you would make that movie without it being really boring in a way.
00:38:32
Brooklyn Brown
Thank you.
00:38:34
Dustin Zick
um But we're... were we're almost like on the other side of the partition with him right and because we're adults we can surmise and connect the dots and fill in the blanks but we're still not getting that actual raw information about what happened and things like that and even the exposure of the room in the experience of that room it's like we're almost in that room with them but we don't have eyes ourself. We're hearing Jack's descriptions of things and Jack pointing things out. Like if you were only hearing audio of him talking about his life and experience in room, it would seem a lot bigger than it is based on all the the ways that Ma has kind of constructed that reality for him and things like that. And so I think that's kind of how I took it as why that first half of the movie
00:39:27
Dustin Zick
doesn't but you know the the dark undertones are all there but the visual like literal literal visual but like you know metaphorical visual as well of like the true darkness and her reality
00:39:32
Brooklyn Brown
you
00:39:43
Dustin Zick
we're just left to fill in the blank because anything we can imagine is going to be you know, nowhere near as bad as what she actually went through kind of a thing. But also it's, you know, the whole story being told isn't so much about what happened to her that got her there um and brought Jack to this world. It's really like,
00:40:05
Dustin Zick
leading up to and when she makes a decision that Jack needs to leave room and what machinations she puts in end forward there. Like the whole point of the story that we see, like, that's the reason we don't see Jack as a baby.
00:40:18
Dustin Zick
Like we see him right when he's having that birthday.
00:40:18
Brooklyn Brown
Yeah.
00:40:21
Dustin Zick
And then pretty shortly thereafter, that sequence of events happens that puts in motion her decision to roll him up in that carpet and that triggers the rest of the movies so it's really about like when jack truly became born to the world itself and everything around that lens that's my take at least
00:40:44
Brooklyn Brown
yeah
00:40:44
Alex
Nice. No, I think it's really nicely put.
00:40:47
Brooklyn Brown
Yeah, I agree. um Yeah.
00:40:49
Dustin Zick
I think that's a good... trend I mean, what you were saying about Panic Room and feeling... How did you describe the the house in Panic Room?
00:40:58
Brooklyn Brown
Like, really, i just, I don't know, i feel like intimately connected to the space. Yeah.
00:41:02
Dustin Zick
Yes, yes.
00:41:03
Alex
It is.
00:41:03
Dustin Zick
It feels like it's so it's a it's its own character.
00:41:03
Brooklyn Brown
Yeah.
00:41:06
Dustin Zick
like like that that's And that's something that I feel like when I think back to originally seeing that movie in the theater, like it just felt
00:41:07
Brooklyn Brown
yeah
00:41:07
Alex
there
00:41:16
Dustin Zick
so It didn't feel, I don't know about you guys, but like Panic Room doesn't feel claustrophobic to me, but it just feels very like, ironically, like real and lived in, even though they're literally staying in the house for the first time that night of the movie, which I kind of feel like I forgot, like going in.
00:41:24
Brooklyn Brown
no
00:41:38
Dustin Zick
I'm like, oh shit, yeah, like it really is their first night here. um But yeah, every, God, the atmosphere in that movie is just so good. The rain, the storm, like...
00:41:51
Alex
I feel like that movie does such a good job of capturing that feeling when you're moving into a new place.
00:41:51
Brooklyn Brown
Yeah, every every shot.
00:41:57
Alex
That first night, like alien trepidation of I'm not familiar with this face. I don't really feel like I belong here. And the way Fincher just captures that through the visuals and through like the framing is such a good mood setter, vibe setter for like what unfolds over the next hour and a half, two hours.
00:42:18
Dustin Zick
Yes.
00:42:20
Brooklyn Brown
Yeah, like i and i thought i thought a lot about as I you know like looked up other Fincher movies as this was going down and trying to track my timeline, like Stevan is a very good movie.
00:42:32
Brooklyn Brown
I very much enjoy it. But like this movie really feels like where we get so much more of what we will eventually come to know is kind of the Fincher yeah right like the fincher lens.
00:42:40
Dustin Zick
yes Absolutely. 100% agree. 7 and Fight Club, I feel like... and and I mean, even going back to Alien 3, which I have a soft spot for.
00:42:53
Dustin Zick
um ah hit ah Because those are is only 3 in the 90s, right? Because Fight Club was like 99. 7... no, the game. i still That's another blind spot.
00:43:03
Dustin Zick
I still haven't seen the the game with Michael Douglas.
00:43:04
Brooklyn Brown
Oh, I haven't seen the game. Yeah.
00:43:06
Dustin Zick
But I feel like I would guess the game... fits in with those other three where you can see a lot of the you know a lot of fincher isms and you can definitely like watch all those together and be like yeah this is the same guy i can totally feel that vibe but i feel like panic room really like when you like for me when i think of the social network when i think of girl with the dragon tattoo even what's this latest one with my myself michael fassbender what's that one called
00:43:38
Brooklyn Brown
Like Hitman or something?
00:43:39
Dustin Zick
Yeah, it's not Hitman.
00:43:41
Brooklyn Brown
Yeah, it's not, but it's about a Hitman. It's Killer or something?
00:43:43
Dustin Zick
Yeah.
00:43:43
Alex
The killer.
00:43:43
Brooklyn Brown
Yeah.
00:43:44
Dustin Zick
Yeah.
00:43:44
Alex
The killer.
00:43:44
Dustin Zick
yeah
00:43:45
Brooklyn Brown
The Killer.
00:43:45
Dustin Zick
Even that, like I feel like there's just this... like I don't even know. like it's just It's this like dark, like heavy, like velvety weight that I feel like is kind of like cast over everything.
00:43:59
Dustin Zick
um And this is the first movie that I feel like in his chronology that I feel that like just... it's It's like this black pool that you're going through, and it's like this cool like the coolest, smoothest, velvety-est kind of thing where it just feels like there's this dripping, oozing mood for me that um just connects everything, and I just kind of see it enveloping all of his movies from here on um in terms of like the atmosphere and the vibe.
00:44:09
Brooklyn Brown
Thank you.
00:44:26
Dustin Zick
And you've i even saw it a little bit in his – what was the Netflix series that he did about the FBI serial killer division in the seventies or eighties? Like that was another one that you could like, at least the early episodes that he directed, you could still feel the same kind of brooding in it.
00:44:45
Dustin Zick
And in that I was so like, it's probably been a decade since I've watched panic room. And I was so pleased to know that, like, I still loved it as much as I did the first time I saw it.
00:44:56
Brooklyn Brown
Alex, this was your first time watching Panic Room though, so like how was how was how was your viewing?
00:45:04
Alex
Yeah, I really enjoyed this. i I do have to say the caveat that I feel like I would have maybe had a higher first impression of Panic Room if it had been earlier Fincher for me.
00:45:11
Brooklyn Brown
Thank you.
00:45:18
Alex
I think because so many of his films are like such titanic monuments in my own, like just filmography, like I adore ah Girl the Dragon Tattoo, um,
00:45:31
Alex
um you know, Zodiac is one of my favorite thrillers ever. I think that is like a rare, perfect movie. um And he has several perfect movies. um Whereas this felt a little bit, almost slighter in comparison, where it's like, it's a really well executed,
00:45:49
Brooklyn Brown
Thank you.
00:45:50
Alex
genre movie. um But there were parts that felt a little bit sloppy to me. um And some of that is a good thing. I think there's an experimental playfulness here with how Fincher uses the camera that like had me just fucking grinning ear to ear.
00:46:06
Alex
when When you said the word velvety, Dustin, I immediately thought of that like camera move we get in the first 15 minutes where um we're seeing the the the intruders like kind of casing the joint from the front and we get the camera like whooshing through the coffee pot and then going into like the the drain tile.
00:46:27
Brooklyn Brown
Mm-hmm.
00:46:29
Alex
Like that's just good shit. And it felt again, experimental and playful in a way where I think later Fincher feels more refined and less kind of loose.
00:46:40
Alex
um So I thought that was a really strong aspect of it. um I think one thing I struggled with was To me, it felt like there was kind of a lack of tension for much of this movie, um where I think the fact that Forrest Whitaker's Burnham establishes so clearly on that he is so against like what's happening here. he doesn't want to like kill these people. He want to harm them.
00:47:08
Alex
um You quickly get the sense that Jared Letters Jr. is in over his head even before you get the reveal that you know he's a Nepo baby and he is kind of trying to steal his family inheritance.
00:47:17
Brooklyn Brown
so
00:47:20
Alex
um But I think a big part of it is that Dwight Yoakam's Raul doesn't get that hint of menace until too late in the story for me.
00:47:31
Alex
i think you get you get clues that he is the wild card, that he wasn't part of his job originally. But it almost felt like a puzzle to be solved and for the first 45 minutes to an hour where it was like, okay, you've got Burnham, Raul, and Junior trying to get into the room, um you know, how do they get these people to leave?
00:47:56
Alex
and the way that it all plays out is dramatically compelling. But I just found myself wishing there was more more tension and more stakes.
00:48:00
Brooklyn Brown
Thank you.
00:48:05
Alex
And we do get those stakes majorly. I think once um Junior gets gets off and we really see, like oh shit, Raoul is like a serious threat. He is insane and a sociopathic killer.
00:48:22
Alex
um then the you know those stakes elevated me but i think that was a little bit too late in the story for me to feel the like you know chest pounding in my heart vibes that i feel like the movie wanted me to be the feel um but yeah i i really enjoyed this but i think that was probably my my biggest stumbling block
00:48:37
Brooklyn Brown
you
00:48:38
Dustin Zick
Yeah, i yeah
00:48:44
Dustin Zick
i I can kind of see what you're saying, but I feel like i kind of got... some of what I needed for like Forest Whitaker's, like there was enough for me with Burnham where he like, where you get the hint that like, Oh, like maybe he not isn't a softy or anything, but like maybe isn't, you know, looking to like murder anyone.
00:49:06
Brooklyn Brown
Thank you.
00:49:08
Dustin Zick
But then he does he like every step of the way. I feel like he, he takes like one step forward and then like one and a half back, like one step forward towards being more like, menacing and evil and then you know or maybe not a one and a half back but like maybe one step back or maybe a quarter step like i think about when they like put the natural gas into the the room like into the the hvac system like that scene the fact i mean That to me underscores the whole thing that like, yeah, if he wanted to, like he could fucking figure this out on his own kind of a thing.
00:49:41
Dustin Zick
Like he's the brains of this whole experience kind of a thing.
00:49:44
Alex
right
00:49:44
Dustin Zick
And the fact that he like had the smarts to like, think of like, oh, let's put the fucking gas into the vent and whatnot. But then you've got like, so the fact that he was thinking that, but then also that, um,
00:50:00
Dustin Zick
at that time Raul is putting the too much gas in there or whatever. And like that whole dynamic between the three of them of like, don't put too much. And if you do put too much, you're going to knock them out.
00:50:10
Brooklyn Brown
Thank you.
00:50:11
Dustin Zick
And then how are we going to get in the room? Like that? I mean, that's probably the strongest moment where I feel like that kind of dynamic changes a little bit. um And then even like, i do really like the part when they finally opened the door when they, you know, pull a fast one on Jodie Foster so that she thinks that they took, like they knocked her ex-husband unconscious and that, you know,
00:50:40
Dustin Zick
Burnham beat up Raul and dragged him out of the room, but Raul switched wardrobe or whatever. That whole scene, I think, is like, I remember the first time I saw it, it kind of threw me for a loop because i what What threw me for a loop with it was the fact that once I realized what was happening, I'm like, oh shit, like, is Burnham, like, truly on the dark side here?
00:51:03
Dustin Zick
Like, it's one thing for him to, like, not want to go along with it willingly, but, like, this was a pretty elaborate plan.
00:51:05
Brooklyn Brown
you
00:51:10
Dustin Zick
that he could have very easily like somehow signaled to her was BS. um And the fact that he like didn't and fully went on to it, it's like, okay, maybe he is like fully on the dark side of this kind of a thing.
00:51:23
Dustin Zick
And then i like, I always remember just the suspense of like, the tables kind of being turned where Jodie Foster's outside of the panic room and they're in the panic room now. And the fucking great scene when Ruul's fingers get cut off in the door and he's like just losing his shit.
00:51:39
Alex
That was so good.
00:51:39
Brooklyn Brown
The sound he makes, the sound he makes when that happens is incredible.
00:51:41
Dustin Zick
Yeah.
00:51:43
Dustin Zick
Well, just to see him like become so disabled and so like like you could easily just end him right then and there.
00:51:54
Dustin Zick
um But the fact that afterwards he still becomes like this like lethal imminent threat to Jodie Foster up until the very, very end is really affecting like in a testament to the performance that Yoakam does.
00:52:04
Alex
Absolutely.
00:52:08
Brooklyn Brown
Thank you.
00:52:09
Dustin Zick
But I just remember like, I what i don't want to say I was disappointed, but i like 20 some years later, not surprising. Like in my head, I had, thought this was like when Jodie Foster's out of the room and I remember her like taking the hammer or whatever to the the cameras so they can't see what she's doing in my head I thought that was like much more of like a heavily calculated like oh she's and she kind of is like funneling them by like closing certain doors and shit like that and then she's hiding in the elevator but it in my head it was much more elaborate than it really was on screen like and obviously if it was any more elaborate than it was on screen it probably would have been boring and and not interesting to see her like set up all these like traps and whatnot that i had written in my head canon for it
00:52:51
Brooklyn Brown
you
00:53:01
Dustin Zick
um But yeah, like that whole part, I think is just crazy. And then i do remember the the other thing that always like the the other two things from a logical perspective that like always drove me fucking nuts with this movie were one, like why install security cameras and not put microphones with them?
00:53:21
Dustin Zick
Like, i i'm like, what the fuck are you like? Why would you not do that?
00:53:26
Brooklyn Brown
yeah Cleared.
00:53:27
Dustin Zick
Like, or theres i yeah. And then the end part when after Forest Whitaker shoots him and runs back into like the the terrace or whatever.
00:53:39
Brooklyn Brown
courtard
00:53:40
Dustin Zick
Yeah, the courtyard.
00:53:40
Alex
Yeah.
00:53:41
Dustin Zick
And then he's like climbing the fence and he like puts the bear bonds in his jacket. Like, i don't know like that whole like. I just feel like if he had tried a little harder, he could have made it out. And I, like, always wanted him to get away. And I'm like, oh dude, like, if you could have just, like, don't know.
00:54:03
Dustin Zick
It's like just moved up your timetable by like 30 seconds. You probably could have gotten out of here because I don't buy that the cops would have been able to surround the building that fast and efficiently or anything based on these two cops going back to the precinct and being like, yeah, something's a little fishy here.
00:54:12
Brooklyn Brown
Thank you.
00:54:14
Alex
Right.
00:54:20
Dustin Zick
And they they send out the whole fucking SWAT team. Like what's going on? Like, I don't. but that's besides the point but i still love this movie like it and i i can't the other thing i'll say is i can't believe i didn't list zodiac that's the other one with fincher that just all of those like meld together and like they're like one they should be one big movie with like all these different beats that just feel the same kind of mood and dread social networks may be the one odd one out because there's like not murder involved in it or anything like that but when i think of like girl with dragon tattoo
00:54:55
Dustin Zick
this movie, ah Zodiac, and all those. Yeah, it just all kind of fits together for me.
00:55:01
Brooklyn Brown
Yeah, I mean, i and and i I feel the same way. Like when you mentioned Fight Club, I was like, oh, yeah, that was Fincher. But I always think of that as like an Ed Norton, Brad Pitt thing, especially around the time of like American History X and all those things like Fight Club.
00:55:14
Dustin Zick
Yeah.
00:55:16
Brooklyn Brown
Again, I just wasn't into directors.
00:55:17
Dustin Zick
Well, and yeah And I think when you think back to like seven and you think back to Fight Club, like i think and given those were before our, you know, when we were kids, but like I people weren't talking about seven because it was a David Fincher movie. They were talking about seven because it was Brad Pitt when Brad Pitt was like just becoming hot.
00:55:38
Dustin Zick
And because it was fucking insane and fight club, it was because it was Brad Pitt and Edward Norton to a slightly lesser extent.
00:55:40
Alex
Yeah.
00:55:41
Brooklyn Brown
Yeah.
00:55:46
Dustin Zick
and That again, wasn't Fincher. ah That was like the selling point. And I think this movie Not that it was fully him, but maybe was like the first movie after Seven, after Fight Club, where people were like, well, this is David Fincher guy.
00:56:02
Dustin Zick
like we but you know I'm sure that brought people to the theaters to some extent, more so than those other movies, his name being attached to it.
00:56:07
Brooklyn Brown
yeah
00:56:10
Dustin Zick
And then certainly once you get to Zodiac and Girl with the Dragon Tattoo and Social Network, then it's like, oh I'm going to go see this new David Fincher movie because he's the guy who directed all this other great shit.
00:56:18
Alex
Right.
00:56:20
Brooklyn Brown
Yeah, no, I completely agree with that. That, yeah, the way that that your're you're spelling that out. Yeah, miss certainly by the time Girl of the Dragon Tattoo came out, it was like, David Fincher is redoing this already amazing movie.
00:56:32
Dustin Zick
Yep.
00:56:33
Brooklyn Brown
We have to see it.
00:56:33
Dustin Zick
Yep.
00:56:34
Brooklyn Brown
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:56:34
Dustin Zick
Yep. Yeah. And I mean, obviously Daniel Craig, like big names in those, but like even they were brought, well, I'm sure, you know, someone like Jodie Foster partially came to the material because he was involved in it.
00:56:38
Brooklyn Brown
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:56:45
Dustin Zick
But like by then his name was a selling point. And I think this might've been the first movie, and if I had to wager guess, was the first one where his name was like,
00:56:53
Alex
Thank you.
00:56:57
Dustin Zick
involved in the marketing materials to some degree of prominence, right? Because the only other person you really have that's pulling weight in terms of celebrity status for this at the time is probably Jodie Foster.
00:57:02
Brooklyn Brown
Yeah.
00:57:09
Dustin Zick
Like, Forrest Whitaker was established, but he wasn't huge, or not huge, you know, as big as he would be now or 10 years ago.
00:57:10
Brooklyn Brown
Yeah.
00:57:18
Dustin Zick
Um,
00:57:18
Brooklyn Brown
Jared Leto would have been like probably just Fight Club, right? Like that's where we would have known Jared Leto from.
00:57:22
Dustin Zick
yeah
00:57:23
Alex
Mm-hmm.
00:57:23
Dustin Zick
I forgot that he was in that too.
00:57:26
Brooklyn Brown
Yeah, his face gets fucked up in that one, too.
00:57:26
Dustin Zick
And he wasn't even like a, yeah. And he wasn't even like a you know, a selling point.
00:57:32
Brooklyn Brown
He's a side character in that.
00:57:33
Dustin Zick
Yeah.
00:57:33
Brooklyn Brown
Yeah.
00:57:34
Dustin Zick
Yeah. And, and I mean, maybe there was some Yolkma mites that were coming here.
00:57:35
Brooklyn Brown
Yeah.
00:57:39
Dustin Zick
ah were probably a little disappointed and in his, his character arc for that matter.
00:57:46
Alex
Yeah, but I think you bring up a good point, Dustin, just like charting that progression for Fincher.
00:57:46
Brooklyn Brown
Yeah. But...
00:57:51
Alex
We don't get a lot of auteurs in Hollywood who are both, I feel like commercial and critical, like darlings, the way that Fincher is. um
00:58:01
Dustin Zick
Yeah.
00:58:01
Alex
You brought up ah prisoners earlier, Kyle, and I feel like Denis Villeneuve is another example of someone who like, you know, straddles both worlds of being auteur with like a distinct filmmaking ah vision and language but also makes like these big blockbusters that people come in droves to see and yeah it has been cool to see you know and think Girl with a Dragon Tattoo i remember that trailer blew people's fucking minds and then like it had a really great stinger like you know by David Fincher listing his other credits and you know at that point he was fully established as like his own you know voice in an American film
00:58:21
Dustin Zick
yeah
00:58:30
Dustin Zick
Mm-hmm.
00:58:44
Brooklyn Brown
Yeah. Oh, David Fincher. I do. I do enjoy you. Although I did not enjoy that most recently on the fast Bender was in, but that's neither here nor there. um I love this movie.
00:58:57
Brooklyn Brown
I love this movie. I'm like, I don't know, every level. like i I love how much it does with something that's so simple.
00:59:06
Dustin Zick
Mm-hmm.
00:59:07
Brooklyn Brown
like It's just one of those, you know, like it's so simple. And I think that the the casting choices, as we've kind of brought up, were just perfect. You know what I mean like i think you could I think this movie could kind of really lose its way with with a with Jodie Foster cast as somebody else.
00:59:27
Brooklyn Brown
because Jodie Foster has this ability to kind of be understated, but like she, she's there, she's powerful, she's executing. She's like, it's a, it's a great performance, but it's never seen stealing, I guess, is the way to describe it and seen stealing in that pejorative way, not in the good way.
00:59:47
Brooklyn Brown
Um, And, and Forrest Whitaker, all the characters, but, but the way that the way that the camera operates in the space is just so amazing. Like the scene where she goes to get the cell phone and they're all yelling downstairs and they're alerted to what's going on up there with the lamp breaking, like incredible. So that's, I'm shocked that you, you, you didn't feel the tension, Alex, because I feel like there's,
01:00:16
Brooklyn Brown
And even knowing what was happening, I feel like there's there's these moments of tension. um And i I think, you know, the the the the blood sugar with Kristen Stewart ah is is ah is a real that's a real overarching tension builder for me. the The chess game that they're playing in and out of the panic room um when her husband shows up, when the cops show up, her ex-husband shows up, when the cops show up. Like, I guess I'm feeling the tension...
01:00:45
Brooklyn Brown
a lot during this movie, um almost throughout the whole thing. um i mean, I'm feeling the tension in the beginning when they're walking through and, you know, you have the, the bizarre stuffy New York realtor people and, and her and,
01:01:01
Brooklyn Brown
I'm feeling the tension there of her not even necessarily knowing what she's doing in the space and, and Kristen Stewart's character running around, um you know, doing young people stuff. um But Raul, I've, I guess I felt that I love Raul's character arc in this so much and both what happens both what happens to him, but visually what you get and how you start off with this guy who introduces a gun. So it's obviously to get used, introduces a gun, has the ski mask, um is quiet.
01:01:41
Brooklyn Brown
ah And is one of the first people to kind of like, you know, once they have that moment panic, everyone knows everyone's there type of thing. He's, he he has that very aggressive line towards like, where are you guys going to go kind of thing. and And to me, that kind of betrays that sociopathic killer. I'm happy to be here to fuck shit up type of mentality.
01:02:02
Brooklyn Brown
But then how he goes from that in the beginning to this like disheveled, grossly balding guy and like the way that they do his hair is in that way. That's just like,
01:02:14
Brooklyn Brown
You know what I mean? Like, that's just the visual arc of Raul.
01:02:17
Alex
That is really good.
01:02:19
Brooklyn Brown
It's from the beginning of like, there's just this, like, i don't know what he looks like under there. Like he could he could just be like real suave and like a true killer. And then by the end of it, he's just the most pathetic individual on screen.
01:02:31
Brooklyn Brown
And it's so wonderful. um But yeah, when God, man, when they, when they, there's And there's there's there's there's a lot of ah decisions made by characters that I feel like are justified with how stupid criminals are and the the types of things you make when you're... The types of decisions you make when you're desperate.
01:02:51
Brooklyn Brown
And um just, I don't know, jar Jared Leto's kind of character being like real, I don't know, braggadocious in the beginning, but then very very quick to bail and then how just...
01:03:05
Brooklyn Brown
he's so, so without even a second thought clacked and how that ramps up everything. So immediately, I mean, ah God, I just, and, and even like the simple stuff, like like we've mentioned how they're in the room and then that switches and there's all these like power dynamics that are going on. And, and, and I, I really liked the scene where the cops show up and my only counterpoint to to you being like, would the cops really do that? Is like, well, this is the richest part of New York. So I feel like,
01:03:35
Dustin Zick
Yeah.
01:03:35
Brooklyn Brown
If there's any place where the cops are going to swarm and actually be coordinated and on top of shit, it's where all the richest people live. um But yeah, like i
01:03:46
Brooklyn Brown
the the and And how much like how the little like the sound is used because you're in this house that doesn't have anything in it yet. And so it's, it's echoey and that, you know, i think it it kind of starts when they have the gas going into the room and she figures out how to get a lighter and she's trying to click it on and they're hearing it and they're like, what is that?
01:03:55
Dustin Zick
Mm-hmm.
01:04:06
Dustin Zick
ah So such a great scene. Let's cheer Leto and you know what's going to happen. And the fact that like first Whitaker is like backing up and Dwight Yoakam's like backing up and you're just like, yeah, Jared, just put your face towards it, man.
01:04:14
Brooklyn Brown
Oh Yeah.
01:04:15
Alex
Right.
01:04:17
Brooklyn Brown
z
01:04:22
Brooklyn Brown
yeah and and I love I love the callback yeah the callback to that scene when Boris Whittaker puts his face on the wall and Sherlock's like be careful with that don't just be careful um that that is just so great uh oh man um
01:04:23
Dustin Zick
It's like such so great because you are so good.
01:04:42
Dustin Zick
Yeah.
01:04:42
Brooklyn Brown
I just, I can't say enough good things about this movie because it's just so well, every, there's not like a wasted moment or a wasted shot or like any of it is just, it's just wonderful. And I, I, I so i feel like I, I could just be in that house, um, right now and just know my way around entirely.
01:04:59
Brooklyn Brown
Um, And, and yeah, just, ah just the, those simplistic, those, those simple things and how they kind of express it in the most simple way with signage, like get out of the house.
01:05:09
Brooklyn Brown
Like, well, we will, but what we want is in that room, you've kind of screwed yourself there.
01:05:13
Dustin Zick
Yeah. Yeah.
01:05:14
Brooklyn Brown
ah And, and how cooler heads can't prevail because the characters involved, but really for me, it's all about that. Like that Raul arc is just so amazing. um And how he does continue to stay locked in and,
01:05:27
Brooklyn Brown
Like he recognizes Kristen Stewart watching the cameras, seeing her mom do stuff. And, oh man, ah it's, it's, it's, it's like great.
01:05:32
Dustin Zick
yeah
01:05:35
Brooklyn Brown
And there's, he is, you know, Raul is, and I think I mentioned this and ah in a couple other things I've talked about, but he's like that lightning bolt, right? Like Jared Leto, Wants the money, but he's not really willing to work that hard for it. So he bails. He he gets wishy-washy really quickly. Obviously, Forrest Whitaker was hoping to be in and out and not have this be a problem.
01:05:54
Brooklyn Brown
And he's he's wrestling with all these things. Jodie Foster is trying to like figure out how to manage all all the... all the mothering and parenting, but then trying to make sure that, i don't know, she doesn't get hurt and get them out of the house and whatever.
01:06:08
Brooklyn Brown
Um, there's, there's just a lot of dynamic characters other than Raul, who is just right through the whole thing, which is, which obviously moves things along relatively quickly a lot of the time. Um,
01:06:19
Brooklyn Brown
Yeah, it's ah it's it's amazing how much is done with so little. And so was really nice ah really nice too to return to this movie and watch it. But yeah, I mean, I i i also just felt like, as I intended with this with this these these three movies, to talk about like how space was portrayed.
01:06:36
Brooklyn Brown
This, to me, was the one where the space was the was a character in a way that that the the other ones it just didn't have. I mean, it was present in the other ones, but this one was like...
01:06:42
Alex
Right.
01:06:45
Brooklyn Brown
so, so, so much different from the elevators to like, oh man. And even that scene where like she pulls the phone wire out and they're all watching it. And then it just like, ah, and it's just, it's, it's so great that like like you said, to him like it hits on that, or maybe you said it out, that moving in feeling where nothing is there, everything's in boxes.
01:06:52
Dustin Zick
yeah
01:07:04
Brooklyn Brown
And I felt like they also got a fair amount of It was amazing how connected I felt to ah a story that I really don't get any part of, which is this divorce and him cheating on or like having an affair with a younger woman.
01:07:21
Brooklyn Brown
and you know, the she's just buying this giant fucking house in New York, just as kind of like a little bit of revenge on a cheating, very, very, very rich husband. um You know, just that intimate moment where like she pours that extra Coke.
01:07:36
Brooklyn Brown
She's like, hey, let's not go down that pathway or whatever, but then pours more Coke. on onto Kristen Stewart's glass after she had previously told her to stop. like And that ending scene where where they're looking at more houses. And I just felt like I got a lot out of this a relationship between mother and daughter. And then also the overarching family dynamic without almost ever talking about it, which I think is impressive to to be able, in terms of writing, I feel like it's impressive to be, and and and acting, but like to get that much for me
01:08:07
Brooklyn Brown
ah feeling like i i I knew a lot about these characters' backgrounds without, like, it was a lot of show, don't tell, um that I felt really got you there, which which is is is impressive. um which is which is the I mean, like, and hey, there's a lot of that with ah with with the with the criminals as well.
01:08:26
Brooklyn Brown
But um ah yeah, and that that last scene in the courtyard where he doesn't, you know, doesn't make it out.
01:08:26
Alex
Right.
01:08:33
Brooklyn Brown
it's It's a little bit corny because it's slightly heavy-handed, but i all you know like just the the visual scene, the visual shtic the the visual i' not a scene but the visual of all those bonds swirling in that courtyard.
01:08:49
Dustin Zick
yeah yeah
01:08:49
Alex
This fluttering in the wind is so good.
01:08:51
Brooklyn Brown
And just like just like, yeah, when crazy amounts of money gets involved, chaos just ensues.
01:08:58
Dustin Zick
yeah
01:08:59
Brooklyn Brown
And just I love that little that little bit at the end
01:09:00
Alex
Well said.
01:09:02
Brooklyn Brown
um And yeah, I mean, just an incredible, incredible watch. I'm glad, I'm glad, you know, we could use this podcast to get, get Alex to watch this movie. And I think it's, it's yeah, it's, it was wonderful. It was just ah an incredibly enjoyable watch. um And I'm happy it's now part of my Apple library.
01:09:23
Alex
that was a great breakdown and i'm excited to revisit this at some point i feel like keeping those some of those things in mind about uh revels arc uh about just some of the inversions there
01:09:24
Brooklyn Brown
Yeah.
01:09:31
Brooklyn Brown
Thank you.
01:09:37
Alex
um and this is a minor quibble but i'm like almost interrogating my own reaction to some things as they were happening but you mentioned the um scene where uh jodie foster's meg is uh getting the cell phone from under the mattress and when it's cross-cutting between ah her retrieval and them in the stairwell having their argument and their realization For me, that was a moment where the pieces didn't quite fit together, where they almost felt like it was happening too slowly for me to feel that tension.
01:10:03
Brooklyn Brown
Okay.
01:10:13
Alex
And I know some of that is a deliberate stylistic choice, like the slow motion is a deliberate stylistic choice to get you to like really feel that building of tension. But in terms of like filmmaking craft, I just felt like there was maybe one too many cuts back and forth between the two locations.
01:10:31
Alex
where I think if that time frame had been shortened just a little bit, for me as a viewer, i would have been holding my breath rather than being like, okay, this is really feeling prolonged and drawn out, which is kind of my reaction to it as it was happening.
01:10:45
Brooklyn Brown
Thank
01:10:46
Alex
um But again, these are these are minor quibbles for like what the movie does do well. And talking about space and like how intimately you feel like you get to know that apartment and that panic room ah One thing I loved is that final shot that we get when they're on the park bench in Central Park, ah you know, looking at new listings, is just how absolutely lush and color-filled and gorgeous that looked.
01:11:14
Brooklyn Brown
Thank you.
01:11:15
Alex
Like, I feel like Central Park in Autumn has, you know, at least in my memory, like, rarely looked that good in a film. And I think it's such a good contrast to kind of, like, the muted colors of that apartment that we spend two hours in.
01:11:30
Alex
to be like reminded of of like, you know, outside of this harrowing experience, there's like this lush world, they're back in it, they survived. um Just a great way to use like the visual language to communicate like, you know, that there is light back in their world now that they've escaped from this this situation.
01:11:50
Brooklyn Brown
Yeah, that's that's that's definitely a good point. I feel like that's a good point. Like they're just open, right? There's no walls around them. and And he's doing that camera effect where you zoom in but bring the camera back physically. So it kind of like warps the space to give it even more texture, which is a camera effect that I absolutely love when when used properly. like um Yeah, no, that's a very that's a very good point, and Alex.
01:12:15
Brooklyn Brown
Well, let's move on to Carnage. You guys move on to Carnage.
01:12:18
Alex
Let's hear it.
01:12:18
Dustin Zick
That sounds good.
01:12:18
Brooklyn Brown
um Yeah, this is a movie that when I watched, I had no idea ah that it was a Roman Polanski. and It just wasn't on my radar. This is a theme that I'm noticing in a lot of my movie watching that I'm returning to some of these old movies. It's like, yeah, loved it. And yeah I was just shocked to find out that it was a Roman Polanski. I was watching this for the actors. I was watching this for for Christoph Waltz and um and John C.
01:12:41
Brooklyn Brown
Reilly, frankly, and and you know Kate Winslet and Jodie Foster were were pleasant surprises. But yeah, when at first, if you guys don't mind me ripping into it, um when but I first started watching the movie, I was kind of like, what's up?
01:12:54
Dustin Zick
Yeah.
01:13:00
Brooklyn Brown
I mean, it's a movie based on play, right? So that does have a certain aspect. And it's definitely like a black block black box play where it's a very one stage, like small space that people are probably sitting all around you, um or at least on three sides of you.
01:13:12
Brooklyn Brown
And um it it kind of starts with like a level of wooden awkwardness that... i I almost tripped myself up when I was watching it. like I was like, oh, was this actually well executed in the way that I remember? Or um is it really this kind of stilted almost or like just real... I don't know. it just felt But to me, as I kept watching and as the movie goes where it goes...
01:13:41
Brooklyn Brown
You're like, oh, no, that's just the awkwardness of these two units of parents trying to get together and have this social conversation when one of the kids has been absolutely annihilated by a stick by the other one. Yeah.
01:13:53
Brooklyn Brown
And the the fall, like this this movie is really just a movie about lines, right? like it's not To me, it's not shot in any way that's like incredible. like that's not And i'm not I'm not looking at camera movements here.
01:14:07
Brooklyn Brown
I'm not looking at the way the open the way the light works. I'm not looking at any of that. It's about actors acting in a in a small space And the lines that they deliver to each other about their children are just, some of them are so good.
01:14:25
Brooklyn Brown
but phone like ah just just a do And obviously alcohol gets involved. And so the lines start to ramp up massively. um But where I really think this movie takes a turn and gets into itself is when Christophe Balls is like, our son is a maniac.
01:14:46
Brooklyn Brown
and then doubles down on it again. It's like, no, he's a maniac. And and and the the the four types of of of kind of characters here with like the very high powered white collar guy with a similar ah so like a similar wife in that way, who's focused on all sorts of ah physical appearance stuff. And then the try hard of Jodie Foster's character, who's uptight about so many things. And Jodie Foster is so good at being really uptight, um which I just, I just loved watching her interact with Christoph Waltz in the course of this, but then, then how it it turns into this weird, like gender thing where the guys are together and the girls are together.
01:15:24
Brooklyn Brown
um And of course, you know, when someone throws up in the middle of, ah in the middle of your living room, obviously things get real squirrely really quickly, but I just, I loved the only time I really felt the space in this movie is when they almost get out like three times.
01:15:39
Alex
Right.
01:15:41
Dustin Zick
Mm-hmm.
01:15:41
Brooklyn Brown
And my wife kept screaming. like She's like, that wouldn't happen. This is ridiculous. There's no other way they would stay. And I'm like, oh, I don't know. I've seen this play out. like I've seen people have the inability because of parenthood to keep them out of things and how they get shooed back in the third time because like some neighbor is opening their door and hearing them yell at one another. ah it's Yeah, I don't know. i I really enjoyed it as, again, like a pretty simple...
01:16:10
Brooklyn Brown
thing, right? Like what starts this movie off and what gets all these characters together is very simple. And then it's it's really, I mean, you can see that it's a play, right? Like it's, it's very on the face of it, but I just, I just thought it was well cast on every, every sense. Christoph Waltz absolutely crushed when John C. Reilly starts smoking cigars and drinking and he's letting fly on their whole life and how it goes from this very,
01:16:36
Brooklyn Brown
Oh, we're just trying to get together to be good parents and teach our kids how to operate. And by the end of it, it's like everyone is torn down to their absolute nub is just fantastic. That's that's really what I have to say to start this off. But who wants who want to chime in?
01:16:52
Dustin Zick
Alex, you can go.
01:16:53
Alex
Yeah, so i I liked this, but I was also frustrated by it. I totally get ah your wife's reaction, Kyle, where there's that like frustration of like, why would they keep coming back?
01:17:07
Alex
like That's totally fucking ridiculous that they would stay you know for this long of a prolonged, like painful interaction.
01:17:08
Brooklyn Brown
Thank you.
01:17:14
Alex
But it works thematically because they're clearly like underscoring lot of these things about ah ego and pride and how we see ourselves and our kids and the desire to win arguments and the desire to rationalize the perceptions that we construct around ourselves and all of these kind of like layers of artifice that are slowly uh shipped away at over the course of the movie i do think that some of my frustration with that is a consequence of this being and adaptation of a play and i think you described like it being a black box play kyle like nicely and like
01:17:40
Brooklyn Brown
Thank you.
01:17:58
Alex
there's an intimacy when you're seeing live theater where you're buying into the suspension and disbelief more than you are when you're viewing a film. And i think those scenes where we do go out in the hallway were so frustrating to me because they they broke the artifice of like, this is all happening in a single room.
01:18:09
Brooklyn Brown
Thank you.
01:18:19
Alex
And it was like, no we can clearly see like there was more beyond these four walls. We can see like the elevator that they should be taking. um So I think there were just a lot of times when I was almost painfully aware of the artifice of all this and of the constructive nature of this kind of story.
01:18:36
Brooklyn Brown
so
01:18:38
Alex
um And some of that was just kind of, you know, my lens while watching. But when I did get myself into the performances to the really witty and funny writing, um like,
01:18:54
Alex
I think Jodie Foster yelling, you know, your kid's a fucking snitch is one of the funniest funniest things I've seen in a movie in a minute. um and i think she does shrill so well and even when she's playing strong characters there's like a brittleness to her and i think that brittleness is almost her defining characteristic here she just like loses it at everything and has no you know no ability to kind of withstand these these tete-a-tetes um you talked about christophe waltz you know his artifice being kind of torn down
01:19:08
Brooklyn Brown
Thank you.
01:19:32
Alex
um I think my favorite like arc in this was John C. Reilly as Michael, where he goes from this kind of demure, people-pleasing, like, you know, I'll just go with whatever my wife wants to do, kind of a husband, to over the course of the movie, being like a total, you know, caveman, alpha, like smoking cigars, you know, I'm...
01:19:59
Alex
And the conservative, who pretends he's a liberal, like that was another great line. um
01:20:03
Brooklyn Brown
Yeah.
01:20:04
Alex
And I just think it really plays
01:20:05
Brooklyn Brown
Did you dress me up like a liberal?
01:20:07
Alex
plays plays to his strengths as an actor. I think, you know, if nothing else, this is an exceptionally well-cast movie. And like you were saying, Kyle, one of the best things it does is, you know, Polanski, he frames things well.
01:20:20
Brooklyn Brown
Thank
01:20:24
Alex
The blocking is good. The staging is good. But he really just gets the hell out of the way and lets these four amazing actors just kind of bounce off each other. And i think for as frustrated as I did feel intermittently by this, and despite feeling the length of it, I think more than I wanted to, there is a lot to appreciate and enjoy here.
Analyzing 'Carnage': Play vs. Film
01:20:48
Alex
Dustin, what was your vibe on Carnage?
01:20:52
Dustin Zick
I don't really have a ton to say beyond what both of you kind of said. I feel like my my feelings of it kind of perfectly bridge those two perspectives. I mean, not that you guys disagreed or anything, but like I thought I feel like if I didn't know, like the fact that I knew this was based on a play made me, allowed me to enjoy it more because i did like the, the story, it's not really like the story being told doesn't feel particularly compelling to watch theatrically.
01:21:33
Dustin Zick
um Were it not for the performances of the actors here, But even with that, I would still feel like I'm asking the question of like, why is this a movie kind of like it just, but then knowing that it was based off of a play, feels like it was just kind of an excuse for like four extremely talented actors and a talented director to like get together and work together on a piece of media that is really good.
01:21:58
Dustin Zick
I will say that I feel like at points, the the dialogue almost felt too
01:22:00
Brooklyn Brown
uh
01:22:07
Dustin Zick
perfect not perfect perfect's not the right word it felt too good to the point of like having not had any sort of establishment of these characters in my perspective it's like oh like do i really know that they would be this on point with their wit and responses like i don't have any sort of measure of history to to to like go back on and be like, yeah, this, this guy's like on a shit, this lady's her shit kind of a thing.
01:22:38
Dustin Zick
So sometimes I felt like I got taken out of it a little bit by dialogue that just felt too perfect for this, the moment and to almost like impeccably like witty and whatnot and sharp.
01:22:53
Brooklyn Brown
Thank you.
01:22:54
Dustin Zick
Um, but then I got back into it after that kind of a thing. So there was just, there wasn't like any one particular line or anything. Maybe once we got post throw up, once we got to like, I mean, I think maybe a little bit like, uh, towards the end when really actually really close to the end when like Kate Winslet was pretty well sloshed and, um,
01:23:19
Dustin Zick
she like once jodie foster threw her bag and knocked all the stuff on the floor like that felt a little don't want to say forced but just like a little like i'm like and and then yeah like i did feel like the breakdown like i'm still not 100 clear as to like wait okay so like are jodie foster and john c reilly like truly just like fucking hate each other 100 they like because Because there was enough dialogue between the two of them, just the two of them prior to that kind of breakdown, to make me think that, like, oh, if they really hated each other that much, maybe we would have gotten a little more hints to that.
01:24:03
Dustin Zick
But that's, I mean, all of that's kind of moot in point because for like, it was 80 minutes, solid, compact. um I feel like if this was any longer, it would have been maybe a little less enjoyable for me.
01:24:14
Brooklyn Brown
Yes.
01:24:15
Dustin Zick
um It was kind of the perfect length. And again, having that context of like, yeah, this was based on a play. Like, it's like, okay, I can totally see that. Like that totally like rationalizes a lot of the other limitations that I would normally be asking about in ah in a story like this.
01:24:33
Brooklyn Brown
Yeah. I, um... I also really like just at the end, um I mean, I don't know. There's so many things with Kate Winslet being the person who vomits, but then refusing to not drink a whole bunch after that was really... How self-destructive all these people are, especially once they get alcohol involved. But I really, don't know, really liked the thing they did at the end, which I doubt exists in the play. Something tells me. I'm just making things up now. It's pure conjecture. Having good time.
01:25:10
Brooklyn Brown
I don't think in the play that there's any opening scene with a kid hitting another kid. And I don't think in the play there's an ending scene where the kids are like, totally fine, just hanging out again.
01:25:20
Alex
Right.
01:25:20
Brooklyn Brown
like Like nothing happened. And these parents have gone through this hellacious afternoon. That has led to all of them having various bodily fluids on them and being messed up and things getting broken and all sorts of things in their house getting screwed up.
01:25:27
Dustin Zick
Mm-hmm.
01:25:33
Brooklyn Brown
like it's It's so great to see how this thing can and completely annihilates the parents and the kids get over it almost instantaneously,
Ranking Films by Parenting Themes
01:25:42
Brooklyn Brown
ah seemingly. right like That's what we're given on.
01:25:44
Brooklyn Brown
Anyway, so I just, i don't know. I appreciate ah that quite a bit. And I can see having, having been someone who has ah before I had a kid, like worked with a lot of kids of that age, right? Like five to 16 to having, having had to mediate some of these types of things with two different sets of parents, ah nothing that was this hilarious or, or well refined, but, ah but it was just, it was just and enjoyable to watch that go down. And there was a lot of realness in some of the frustrations expressed by a characters at a given stage with with their partners about their marriages or with being a parent in general ah or with ah you know the way that other people are characterizing your kids' behavior and using certain words and um just a complete clash of ah of of types of people who exist in the world that ah interact only because their kids interact.
01:26:41
Brooklyn Brown
um And how these people would have never sought each other out in any way, shape or form other than that. And like, what happens when, when those worlds collide because of that, um because of the thing that brings them together. after i don't know, just, just what they all connect over at various times. Like, they're like, Ooh, I had a gang.
01:27:00
Brooklyn Brown
and I beat this dude up. It was great. And how like, everything is just, I don't know. There's the, the, the kind of, you want this to be a, oh yeah, we're above it. We're trying to be all sorts of better.
01:27:11
Brooklyn Brown
We're trying to like, you know, really just really have a civilization and a society. And then it all just goes to shit so many, in so many different ways. And then there's just like waves of it happening over and over again.
01:27:24
Brooklyn Brown
So yeah,
01:27:24
Alex
Yeah.
01:27:25
Brooklyn Brown
yeah i don't have I don't have too much more to say on this on this than that. I mean, i do think there's there's things you can criticize. I'm surprised you felt the length at all, Alex, because I do feel like it was pretty short.
01:27:35
Brooklyn Brown
um And kind of, I don't know, and Dustin also, you know, if it was any longer, it would have been quite long. And I think by the time Kate Winslet's character screams, why are we still in this house? It is like, yeah, we got to wrap this thing up, baby.
01:27:47
Dustin Zick
ha
01:27:47
Alex
Yeah.
01:27:49
Brooklyn Brown
Is, yeah, wonderful.
01:27:49
Dustin Zick
but i correct me if I'm wrong we don't see them leave the house though right I don't think we do cuts to the the hamster in the park and so like the implication is very much that they could have they could still be there yeah
01:27:56
Alex
We don't, I think, I think he just cuts when she like, you know,
01:27:57
Brooklyn Brown
We don't.
01:28:02
Brooklyn Brown
Yes.
01:28:06
Alex
right. While their kids are patching it up, they're just still like throwing tulips around and throwing up and stuff.
01:28:11
Dustin Zick
yeah
01:28:15
Brooklyn Brown
Yeah. Wonderful. Wonderful stuff. Well, I feel like feel like we handled we handled everything pretty well.
01:28:21
Dustin Zick
Yeah. Well, ah let's do our our rankings and let's kick it off with you. How would you rank these three?
01:28:29
Brooklyn Brown
This is a tough one, I feel like, for rankings because I – this is a tough one, man. I feel like ah I'm to go –
01:28:40
Dustin Zick
but maybe Maybe we do.
01:28:40
Brooklyn Brown
to
01:28:41
Dustin Zick
like So here's a thought. I mean, our rankings, I feel like there's a couple episodes where we haven't done this. So like acting as though they're such an important bestowment of our podcast is probably inaccurate. But um I feel like typically when we do these, it you know, it's based on the the precipice of this whatever theme we chose.
01:29:02
Dustin Zick
But we kind of established that the theme that you picked originally of like a a physical space being confined ultimately was not accurate for these three.
01:29:03
Brooklyn Brown
Right.
01:29:12
Dustin Zick
But i I think it's a very valid and and accurate theme that these are all movies about parenting.
01:29:12
Brooklyn Brown
Yeah.
01:29:19
Alex
Right.
01:29:19
Brooklyn Brown
Yeah.
01:29:19
Dustin Zick
very different ways so maybe we do two rankings because at least for me i feel like i would rank these differently just based like the three movies just broadly like how would i rank the three of these and then how would i rank them as stories about parenting because i think that's very different for me
01:29:26
Brooklyn Brown
and
01:29:29
Brooklyn Brown
Yeah.
01:29:36
Brooklyn Brown
Yeah, I think if I had to rank them just broadly, I'm going to go Panic Room and number one, Room number two, and Carnage number three. And I think if I'm ranking them as movies about parenting, i am I'm going Room number one, Carnage number two, and Panic Room number three. Because I think there's a decent amount of mother-daughter and family relationship type stuff in Panic Room, but... um I think Carnage really taps into it in a way that and that a lot of movies don't.
01:30:04
Dustin Zick
Yeah.
01:30:06
Brooklyn Brown
And obviously I think Room does in a very unique way, in a very unique story. um and ah And it really hits it out of the park in the parenting aspect when they bring in her mother and father and and the stepfather as well. I think that really...
01:30:23
Brooklyn Brown
that brings it in so i think that's kind of how i would how i would do it and and that lens or that that paradigm would would change how i uh my rankings with regard to like i would express this stuff like that so yeah would give me give me give me your your your two rankings then uh dustin
01:30:39
Dustin Zick
Yeah, I would say movie wise, mine would be the same panic room, room, and then carnage. I think that's what you said, right?
01:30:47
Brooklyn Brown
yeah
01:30:47
Dustin Zick
Yeah. um And then as far as parenting goes, and I'm sure some of this is couched by the fact that you're, you are a parent. um I am not a parent with no intention to be a parent.
01:30:58
Dustin Zick
um And I would say carnage room than panic room. Because I think it's like a non-parent who has many friends who who are parents and and is close with them as well.
01:31:11
Dustin Zick
Like I do like kids and like spending time with kids.
01:31:13
Brooklyn Brown
Thank you.
01:31:14
Dustin Zick
um I just find like the the angle of parenting that carnage covers to be one that I don't feel like um is as heartily materialized in and media as it is in Carnage, where it's like just the whole focus of it is truly the parents and like the dysfunction that comes amongst separate like sets of parents who do not, it's not like they're have any connection other than a interaction their kids had and it was not a positive interaction that their kids had.
01:31:46
Dustin Zick
And then Room, I think as we you know talked at length about like that story of parenting is really good. And in Panic Room, I think, yeah, like there's there's definitely things to be said about parenting and that, but it is not a core component of the film and the way it is as for the other two, for sure.
01:32:04
Dustin Zick
Alex, how about you?
01:32:06
Alex
Yeah, I'll echo a lot of that, you know, talking just my generalized rankings. ah My number three would be carnage. My number two would be panic room. And my number one would be room.
01:32:18
Alex
ah which I was surprised by how moved I was by this movie. And it's one where I think if you read the description of it and are kind of on the fence, i maybe roll the dice, give it a shot.
01:32:27
Brooklyn Brown
Thank you.
01:32:30
Alex
Because i I was pleasantly surprised by how you know tender and powerful this was, given the subject matter, as we kind of talked about. um In terms of movies about parenting,
01:32:42
Alex
I would say Panagram is, like you guys, number three. i think it's very firmly in the subtext category in Panagram, where it informs that relationship. Like there's maybe some thematic stuff going on, but you kind of have to squint to see it.
01:32:58
Alex
Whereas Carnage would be my number two. because there it's kind of clearly in the text, you know, it's about these four parents, it's about their approaches to raising kids. um But I think there's a broadness to Carnage where it's also about other things.
01:33:13
Brooklyn Brown
Thank you.
01:33:14
Alex
It's about ego, it's about the falseness of the social contracts. um Whereas Room, I would put as the most effective movie about parenthood, because it is the fulcrum on which everything else operates.
01:33:28
Alex
And it's really just so laser focused on that core relationship and the worlds that parents create for their children that, um you know, it was the most effective parenting movie for me in that regard.
Conclusion and Recommendations
01:33:42
Dustin Zick
Cool. Well, any parting words from either of you, sir? In other words, I think that's about it for this episode.
01:33:50
Alex
Check out these movies.
01:33:50
Brooklyn Brown
Yeah, yeah.
01:33:51
Alex
They were all all worth watching.
01:33:52
Brooklyn Brown
Yes.
01:33:52
Alex
I'm glad we saw them for the pod.
01:33:53
Dustin Zick
Yeah. Yeah.
01:33:55
Brooklyn Brown
Yeah.
01:33:55
Dustin Zick
Live long in movie, friends. Live long in movie.
01:33:58
Brooklyn Brown
This is.