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Secret #39: The Two-Way Gift of Compassion with Becky Platt
149 Plays6 months ago
In this episode of 'Life's Dirty Little Secrets,' hosts Chris McCurry and Emma Waddington delve into the transformative power of compassion and human connection in healthcare. Joined by pediatric nurse and humanitarian Becky Platt, who recently completed a mission in Gaza with Save the Children, they explore the profound impact of empathy in high-pressure medical environments.
The discussion spans heart-wrenching stories of young patients, the courage in providing dignified end-of-life care, and the mutual gifts of understanding during moments of grief. Becky shares insights from her nonprofit 'Don't Forget the Bubbles,' which offers educational resources to support those caring for sick children. The episode emphasizes the importance of regarding patients as whole individuals, advocating for a humane approach in caregiving that values every human interaction, and highlights how these acts of compassion can mitigate burnout in healthcare professionals.
Join us as we reflect on the radical idea of 'loving your patient' and the power of love and connection as tools for healing and therapy.
Highlights:
- Human Connection In Healthcare
- Importance Of Compassion
- Personal Reflections And Emotional Connections
- Dealing With Parental Guilt
Learn more about Don't Forget the Bubbles
Becky Platt is an Advanced Clinical Practitioner in Paediatric A&E at the Royal London, an executive member of the Don’t Forget the Bubbles team and a senior lecturer on the PEM MSc at QMUL. Becky has deployed to several disease outbreaks and conflict zones with humanitarian organisations, most recently to Gaza with Save the Children. She was awarded the British Empire Medal in 2021 for her overseas humanitarian work.
Becky is passionate about humanity in healthcare, putting patients first, and caring for staff. She regularly hosts debrief sessions after clinical incidents and is committed to facilitating individual, team and organisational learning from events, as well as supporting staff after challenging situations. She is a committed educator and loves teaching in a variety of ways. She delivers online and face-to-face training and talks to global audiences on a range of clinical and non-clinical topics.
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Transcript
Societal Pressure and Authenticity
00:00:02
Speaker
We are all very human and fallible, and yet we live in a society that rewards pretending we're not fallible, or the range of acceptable fallibility is narrow. We are constantly comparing our insides to other people's outsides and feeling inadequate and guilty, even ashamed. Trying to blend in means parts of ourselves will disappear and we must then live in fear that we will be found out. Here, together, we will create a space where we can laugh, cry, and carry our suffering and hurts lightly in the service of being deeply human.
Introduction to 'Life's Dirty Little Secrets' Podcast
00:00:36
Speaker
This is life's dirty little secrets. Hello.
00:00:42
Speaker
Welcome to Life's Dirty Little Secrets. I'm Chris McCurry. And I'm Emma Waddington.
Guest Introduction: Becky Platt
00:00:48
Speaker
And today I'm so excited to have Becky Platt with me, who's actually a colleague of Anna, my sister, who was on our, gosh, just over a year ago now.
00:01:01
Speaker
And Becky cus is actually with me here in Singapore, which is very exciting. This is only the second time we've had somebody in the same country. Actually, no, we've done in the US, but never in Singapore before. So this is a first.
Becky's Nursing Experience and Patient-Centered Care
00:01:16
Speaker
So Becky is here to talk to us today, and she's a pediatric nurse with over 20 years experience. And the reason why she's here today is because of her passion for putting the patient at the center of what we do. And she has done some incredible humanitarian work, having just recently come back from Gaza as part of her work for Save the Children. She's got a beautiful TEDx talk, which we will be putting in our show notes. And she also has a lovely not-for-profit organization that's called Don't Forget the Bubbles. And I thought you could talk a little bit about that, Becky.
00:01:59
Speaker
And yes, welcome. Thank you for coming. Thank you. I'm excited to be here and excited to be in Singapore.
Building Supportive Healthcare Communities
00:02:05
Speaker
Yes, thank you. Don't Forget the Bubbles is a nonprofit organization and I'm on the exec team for and we provide education for anyone who needs to look after sick children. So we've got lots of resources, including a conference, a website, a podcast.
00:02:29
Speaker
and And we also, in addition to the education, what we aim to do is build a community of practice where people feel connected and safe and supported in what they do. Sounds beautiful. We'll be putting that in our show notes as well. Sounds really important work, actually. Thank you, Becky. And thank you for being here. Thank you.
00:02:52
Speaker
So I watched your edX talk today and it moved me to tears. It was very sweet, very moving, very passionate, and made me very excited to be able to actually you know talk to you about the important work that you do. And you know what I took from the talk, and I would encourage all our listeners to watch it, is you talked about this difficult work that you do.
00:03:21
Speaker
in pediatric emergency care, trauma care, crazy, busy situations. And you talk about what we might call a secret ingredient or element in making the connections that you have with your patients stronger and more vital and more effective in the work that you do.
Emotional Connection in Healthcare
00:03:42
Speaker
And that boils down to compassion and and even love in those crazy moments of but know high tech, emergency room, you know saving people's lives. Though I you know believe that it could extend to other situations too that involve two human beings in a situation that's stressful and
00:04:10
Speaker
people are looking for a way of making that kind of connection. So tell us about that work that you do and how compassion and love are such an important part of it. Yeah, I think the reason that I've been able to stay in this work for a quarter of a century now is because I truly value the connection I get with other human beings. I think that There's this misconception amongst some healthcare professionals that in order to be professional, there has to be this degree of separation between me as the person in charge and you as the person receiving the care or the advice that I'm going to give you. But actually it's that it's about making a connection human to human.
00:05:10
Speaker
that really matters. And I think much as people do need you know advice and sometimes life-saving treatment, actually what they need is to feel seen and heard and connected on a human level. And that's actually the bit that makes a difference. Well, in those stressful situations, I think that kind of connection can go out the window as ah as an almost a self-protective move. Like, i can I can't get too close to this person. They might die any minute now. Or, you know, I'm feeling, you know, c incredibly responsible. So I have to get into my my efficiency technical mode. And I suppose, you know, those aspects of your job or a lot of jobs are necessary, but not sufficient.
00:06:07
Speaker
Yeah, I think that there needs to be balance, doesn't there? some Sometimes we are in incredibly difficult, challenging situations where we need to deliver you know highly technical care at very fast, very high speed in order for it to be effective and life-saving.
Balancing Medical Interventions and Human Connection
00:06:28
Speaker
But I think what we've got to remember is that but actually there's a person on the receiving end of that, and that's why we're doing it.
00:06:37
Speaker
And that I mean, I think sometimes in the moment, you know, we need to be professional and slightly removed enough in order to be able to think clearly, but it can't just be a task and it, you know, it can't be, you know, I've got to get this chest drain in or I've got to do whatever. It has to be about the person. And I think even in life and death situations,
00:07:07
Speaker
We've got to remember that it's about the person and their family, not about interventions and success or failure of interventions. It's actually about the person. When I think of those moments in the emergency room where you are with somebody whose life is very much at risk,
00:07:31
Speaker
I can see how being in that fight-flight sort of almost frees potentially. Emotional experience would sort of pull us to disconnecting from this being a human because emotionally it must be very hard to think that might somebody might die in your hands. Yeah. I mean, that is the worst thing that can happen clearly. Although, you know, so sometimes there is something about providing and facilitating a good death. But I think often when we see professionals very disconnected in those moments, we hear things like he's trying to die on us. Or, you know, he's circling the drain. Let's, you know, give it everything we've got. And I think those things are incredibly
00:08:28
Speaker
dehumanizing and actually then it becomes a tension between what we as the professionals are trying to do. We're trying to save this person's life and they are trying
Collaborative Efforts in Life-Saving
00:08:39
Speaker
to die. And in my experience,
00:08:44
Speaker
Nobody in that situation is trying to die. Actually what they're doing is trying to live and they're holding on with everything they've got. And what we should be doing as healthcare professionals and humans is pulling together and feeling like we're pulling together with our patient. And we're all trying our very hardest for that person to pull through and to survive. It shouldn't be this.
00:09:13
Speaker
competition between us about you know us winning when we've saved life. Actually, it was a joint endeavour and we got there together. That's really interesting. i didn't so that That process of suddenly dehumanizing, like you said, the patient where they're dying they're trying to die on us. That competitive piece that you described is astonishing, I guess, because I've thankfully never had to be in that situation. But is that because, is there a part of the the medical professional in that moment that feels inadequate? And that's what they're up against, this feeling of the fear.
00:10:00
Speaker
I think it's probably yeah ah think it's fear related. I think that we sometimes feel responsible. We feel that we should be able to control things that we can't control. We feel that we should be able to prevent death at all costs and that's not how it is.
00:10:20
Speaker
that's you know inevitably some people will die because infection is overwhelming or they were born with a condition that was unsurvivable or their injuries are not survivable. That's not about our inadequacy. That's about nature and the battle of life. Yeah. And I guess that's the part that is really difficult for some people to accept that We have to accept our fallibility or that the context is so strong that we can't influence, yeah be it the health context or whatever context. And I guess making room for that, those experiences and those feelings.
00:11:08
Speaker
is huge. It must be very challenging in those moments like to accept that this may not be something that we can control. I think then we've got to learn to recognize when it's time yeah and then to switch into making death comfortable and the best it can possibly be.
Compassionate End-of-Life Care
00:11:33
Speaker
As stories just come to mind about the situation that happened when I was in Gaza that it feels rather than, can I tell you another story? yeah we were I was working in a field hospital and we would get children brought in after various injuries and sometimes illnesses and so on because there was a huge camp of displaced people right on the doorstep. and This young person got brought in by his family and he had multiple complex needs, even you know dating back years.
00:12:05
Speaker
and hate He'd been a victim of a shooting, an explosion several years ago, and he had multiple needs associated with that. But on the day that I met him, he was suffering from overwhelming sepsis. He was incredibly unwell. And initially we started all of the treatment that we could. We started getting IV lines in and we were thinking about giving him antibiotics and fluids, but it was rapidly very obvious that although he may survive today or tomorrow, he was not going to survive probably beyond that. And to put him through multiple attempts at IV cannulation and so on would be frankly inhumane, incredibly painful. And so
00:13:03
Speaker
much as the team needed to save lives in that situation because of all the devastation going on around us, we recognised that this was not one that we could save. And we spent time talking to his family and we agreed that what we would do is make life, the end of his life, as comfortable as it could be. And so We managed to get a message out into the camp to get his family and close friends with him. We made him as comfortable as we could with what little pain relief we had available at the time. And we gave him as much privacy as we could and he passed away a couple of hours later. And that felt like, although he hadn't survived, it felt like
00:13:54
Speaker
a huge achievement that we'd got it right for him, even though we hadn't gone for heroics and tried the life-saving treatment. I didn't know I'd need tissues. That's all right. It's just so... I think and Chris has tissues. A bit far. I should have come prepared. I don't think I've ever felt tearful on one of our podcasts. I think what? Let me compose myself.
00:14:22
Speaker
I should have come in the trigger warning. It's so moving, but I think it's such a difficult, such a courageous and bold decision to make as a clinician, as a team. and I don't know how we get, we help. and I think that's what you're here to talk about and that's what you know your work is all about, is helping people.
00:14:46
Speaker
Think about, yes, the individual, the human at the center, and you thought about this boy and what the most compassionate act would be for him and his family, and how that was more important than at that moment doing everything you could, given what you knew about his care and his condition.
00:15:07
Speaker
to save him and it just feels incredibly brave and very difficult. ah You also mentioned in your TED Talk that this kind of compassion is a gift to the person who is offering the
Combating Burnout with Compassion
00:15:22
Speaker
compassion. I mean, it's it is an antidote to burnout and in a way of seeing a bigger picture in what we're doing, whether it's the kind of intense, you know,
00:15:36
Speaker
and technical work that that you will so often do are probably just, you know, a parent trying to get their child out of the house to get to school in the morning when things aren't going particularly smoothly, that having that compassionate stance allows us to be our best self.
00:15:56
Speaker
even if that is not the self that we would like to be at the moment. we You know, we want to be strong and competent and take care of everything and be in control. And sometimes we just can't. Yeah. I think often it's easier for us to do more and to do more and more, even when we can see it's not making a difference in healthcare. And actually the braver thing often is to say enough let's change tack, let's provide comfort, let's be compassionate rather than continuously trying more and more invasive things. and i actually it It was a difficult day that day because you know we had gone there to save lives, but actually
00:16:49
Speaker
it felt like we'd done the right thing and I came away feeling like actually we'd had a good day because we'd done the right thing and we'd given this young man the best death that he could have had under the circumstances. Yeah, I was thinking something else you said in your TED Talk. I'm just going to do your TED Talk right here. um that you you talked about our stories collide, and we share a chapter together. It may be brief and intense, but it's a bridge between before and after. And I think that story you just told illustrates that very nicely, where
00:17:26
Speaker
you know, your, his story, your story, everybody's collided in that moment, those, those hours. And it was intense. It was brief. And you, you created that bridge allowing him to move on from this life to hopefully some, something better. I don't know. Can't speculate, but yeah, that you were, you shared a chapter together. I thought that was a very powerful way to think about these, you know, these interactions that we have with others.
00:17:55
Speaker
Yeah, I love this idea and it's something that I think about a lot because I think and i think it works with our patients, but it also works with our friends and other acquaintances as well. there is There are some people that are in our lives a very long time you know and hopefully that's our family and it will be our good friends as well. and we you know We walk a part of our journey together and and we shape each other along the way and we're both changed because of it.
00:18:26
Speaker
but there are other people and often patients come into that category where we just share a tiny moment together. And some sometimes it could be a few minutes and sometimes it could be a few hours and sometimes it could be days or weeks or months.
00:18:43
Speaker
but each one of those interactions has the power to change us and them. I love that there are these touch points that can do that, however brief they can be deeply meaningful. Yes. i yeah That reminds me of the conversation we had with Karina about interpersonal violence and she mentioned the that even though you have these brief moments with the young people, and she was talking about working in violence in a trauma center, but not to underestimate the impact that interaction can have. And and I think listening to you talk about you know caring for the person, not just the person's body. And I think about you know the work that
00:19:37
Speaker
Chris and I do and, you know, as parents, as humans, we can get so caught up in the detail of what needs to get done right now.
Maintaining Human Connection Amidst Life's Pressures
00:19:47
Speaker
And like you said, you know, we can keep doing more and more and more and more. And I think think of that in life in general, we can always do more. And at the moment, it feels like everybody's telling us to do more. We can lose touch.
00:20:02
Speaker
with the humans in our life, those little moments of connection, even connecting with somebody that you're ordering a coffee from or somebody that is giving you the groceries. I mean, we know that The research shows that but if we're thinking about loneliness being you know this epidemic that we have at the moment, that we're all feeling really lonely. It is those small micro connections during the day that make the difference. it's not you know
00:20:32
Speaker
the family gathering that happens once a year, it's not the, you know, dinner dates, although those help, I'm sure, because they happen more frequently. But it's the little conversations during the day that you can catch. And unfortunately, we're having less and less of those, but that human touch, be it with your GP, be it with your hairdresser, be it with the person at the shop, you know, at the cashier, really do nurture Has reminded me of those with those brief interactions and also Chris talking about the this idea of compassion as a gift for both. I remember I
00:21:17
Speaker
Shortly after, actually that's not true, I'll start that bit again, I remember being in the the corridor at work just outside the recess room and her mother was pacing up and down holding a small baby and she looked utterly distraught and I asked her if she needed some help and she could obviously tell that I was a nurse, I was in my uniform and she said, my dad's dying in recess and I need to go and say goodbye to him, I don't want to take my baby in there.
00:21:46
Speaker
So I said, look, I'll hold the baby. You go and say goodbye to your dad. And she said, oh, i you know, I don't want to take up your time. I said, look, take take as long as you need. I'll just stand here holding the baby until you come back. and And I was thinking about, you know, the fact that my only dad had died several years before and reflecting on that as I was cuddling this lovely baby. And when she came out, her dad had died while she was in the room and she said to me, you know, thank you for allowing me to be there. I just don't know how I'm going to go on. How will I ever get over this? Have you ever lost anyone that you love?
00:22:34
Speaker
And I said, well, actually, I've lost my dad as well. And I, in my experience, you don't get over this, but you do learn to live with it. And she gave me a hug. I gave the baby back and we just went our separate ways. But I realized afterwards that The gift that she had given me was that I had actually understood that I had found a way to learn to live with the fact that my dad wasn't around anymore. And that was a huge gift for me. And I literally met her for a minute. What a generous gesture actually. I mean, it seems so simple and yet I can see how you could have seen this person
00:23:24
Speaker
and then thought, actually, I need to go and do something else. There could have been something on your to-do list that felt really important or you know maybe you had something else on your mind where you didn't have room for that mother.
00:23:40
Speaker
and that can you know There's so many ways that moment could have not happened. Yeah, I know. i It's amazing, isn't it, how you know life presents us with these multiple opportunities and we just have to kind of learn to take them. Yes. Yes. And be open to them. I think if I imagine you having had the loss of your father, did you know that that that he was in the room? There was a man in the resuscitation room at the time? I didn't know all just go what was going on. wow So even more in a way that
00:24:16
Speaker
for you to, you had to be willing to sit with difficult feelings. Cause I suspect you knew that it wasn't an easy situation. Woman was and that you had to be willing to sit with whatever was going to show up in the service of helping her. Yeah. I think I kind of probably didn't even think that far ahead in a moment, but I'm so glad that I didn't do that because she desperately needed to say goodbye to her dad. She didn't want baby involved in that situation. It needed to be her time with him and him alone. And I never would have been able to give her that gift or receive what I did if I rushed on by. So thank goodness I didn't. Yeah. Yes. A number of years ago, I attended a lecture by a very famous
00:25:13
Speaker
psychologist from California. And she travels a lot, gives a lot of lectures. And she talked about coming back from some you know business trip that she'd done. And ah she had a son at the time and she thought, okay, I'm really going to spend some quality time with my son. And she had this day plan where they you know they were going to go to the beach and they were going to do all this stuff. And you know So she's getting the car packed, and she's kind know move getting him going and stuff, and he's standing outside their house, and he's looking at the ground. And she's like, come on, let's go. we can yeah we're you know We're going to get to the beach. We're going to do this and do that. He's looking at the ground, and she comes over and is looking at some bugs.
00:26:05
Speaker
that are on the ground. And she she looked at him, she looked at the bugs, she looked at the car, and she sat down on the ground with him, and they spent like 40 minutes looking at bugs. And the beach could, and all the plans and the agenda and all that stuff could just wait. And she said she was grateful that she was able to recognize that moment and be, you know, what in the work that Emma and I do, you know, the kind of therapy that we do, we talk a lot about context sensitivity, you know, and not just be so driven by our rules or our to-do list or whatever, that we can be open to the possibilities in, you know, here and now and what's going on and how to respond to that in in a way that works for her and for her child.
00:26:57
Speaker
you know, for whomever ah you're dealing with. But I will always remember that story. Yes. What great parenting that she could just respond to his needs in that moment. Yeah. And she described it was a struggle because it was like, you know, she had this thing that it was all planned out and she was like, this is going to be a great day and I'm going to make up for my time being away by giving him this fabulous day when what he really wanted was to sit on the ground and look at bugs.
00:27:24
Speaker
Love that. Yes. Yes. And I think what that points to as well is this letting go of our ego of, you know, what will help us feel masterful right in that moment. And that, you know, sometimes we think that what needs to happen is to save a life is to get our kids to, you know, this fantastic day is to,
00:27:52
Speaker
finish everything in our to-do list, whatever it might be that our minds telling us is the most important thing and letting go of that and actually dropping into the moment can be very difficult.
00:28:04
Speaker
we can get really stuck with these rules about what's the right thing looks like in this moment. And I think especially if there are some big feelings that come along with it, like guilt when we're a parent, right guilt seems to be always ever present in my experience as a parent, the sense of never doing enough, never being present enough, never fun enough. and I mean, they don't let you leave the hospital these days without, you know,
00:28:32
Speaker
you know, an appropriate car seat for your child and a bag of guilt. you know So here's your car seat. Here's your guilt. Enjoy parenting. That's right. ah That's right. I often find myself saying that to parents at work, especially parents of newborns, you know, they're feeling guilty about something, you know.
00:28:53
Speaker
baby's not warm enough, the baby hasn't got the right clothes on. Maybe they had to give a formula feed because the baby couldn't get on the breast or you know heaven forbid the baby had a little accident or something like that. And I you know often say, you know in my experience as a parent, you will always find something to feel guilty about. So maybe just try to also remember the amazing things that you are doing for for your baby right now. Yes. And so I think that when we are sort of caught up with these big feelings, we're going to be desperately trying to reduce them.
Sustaining Emotional Connections in Healthcare Careers
00:29:27
Speaker
So if it's, you know, parental guilt or if we're feeling inadequate, like that's back to the beginning of our conversation with, you know, doctors feeling this sort of urgency to save someone's life of understandably that something that
00:29:43
Speaker
a rule that can be easily that could easily dominate in that moment versus being able to lean into the human. and You said something very important, which was being able to lean into that human connection is what's kept you going so long. yeah So I'd love to touch on that because I think thinking back to our conversation with my sister and thinking back to conversations we've had on on burnout, this is you're doing really difficult work. and I think as parents we do you know pretty difficult work and that how this has protect you and kept you going.
00:30:26
Speaker
because it is kind of counterintuitive. you know One would think that I have to protect myself in order to not get burned out. So I can't allow that stuff in, when in fact that's how we, you know or at least maybe for some people that doesn't work, but they you know at least give it a try to see if that doesn't in fact 11 what we're doing a little bit and make it deeper and richer and more rewarding. But please, Becky, please rip off what Emma just said. Yeah, I think because as we get busier and busier in healthcare, and in life probably,
00:31:09
Speaker
we have this kind of habit of dehumanizing things. And and in healthcare, care that's often just small comments like, you know, the fracture femur in three, the abdomen pain in four, things like that. And I think it's just a shorthand for remembering where they are and what's wrong with them. They are not the sum total of their diagnosis or potential diagnosis. They were a whole person before they entered the hospital. you know You're walking this small chapter together and then there'll be a whole person again afterwards, hopefully.
00:31:54
Speaker
they are not the Abdo pain info. So I think you know one of the things that that we can do... is to try to use names and remember something about these people that we meet that is meaningful above and beyond what's wrong with them. And I think that you know that that happens, you know that works also outside of the hospital. You know you talked about building small connections with you know the person that you meet at the supermarket or you know somebody that you buy your coffee from so that they are not you know the supermarket cashier or you know the barista. Maybe just make a tiny connection, make a comment about the weather or something. It makes them into a human. and and I think there's a whole lot of dehumanizing and a whole lot of othering going on at the moment, which makes it so easy for us to disconnect with the difficult stuff that's going on in the world. and
00:32:53
Speaker
not to feel it in a way that we should be feeling it. If you bring it back to one person, all of a sudden becomes more meaningful. And I remember when I was sharing stories after I came home from Gaza, most recently another humanitarian missions that actually, when you remind people about one person's story, that's when they feel it. So we've got to try to remember that these are humans at at the end of, at the end of this story, not numbers. And I get, for me, it's, it's obvious why, why is it so important not to lose that, do you think? For you, what's really important about not forgetting that one person, making everybody numbers and disconnecting.
00:33:53
Speaker
from the human behind that number. For me, the whole point of being a human is connecting with other humans and feeling emotion, sharing emotion, sharing experiences, even recognizing that we can share the same experience and experience it two entirely different ways or feel two entirely different things as a result of it and understanding that we are still together in this. We still, we still got this shared human experience.
00:34:32
Speaker
That's how we make meaning of lives. That's surely the whole point of being here. Yeah. And I think that just thinking about all the experiences that you've recently had,
00:34:51
Speaker
you know, with going to Gaza and, and well, actually across your clinical life, there's been all these opportunities that you could have just seen a number in a statistic and you've chosen to see the human. And that has kept you feeling very alive and very committed and engaged in the work that you do and finding great meaning in the work that you do. And like Chris said, it's often people think that the only way to survive, and I'll put that in air quotes, the work that you do is by disconnecting emotionally because it's such painful work. But actually the opposite is true.
00:35:45
Speaker
It's finding meaning in those interactions so that in a way that's the priority. It's the human that's the priority versus whether they'll live or not or whether I can stop this war or not. It's continuing to focus on the things you can control because that interaction you can control. You can make that moment a connected moment with that individual versus can I make the situation better in terms of, you know,
00:36:19
Speaker
yeah Obviously, with some of the work that you've done with saved children or with some of your patients, some of those parts are out of your control, but perhaps that connection part isn't.
Non-judgmental Care in Healthcare
00:36:32
Speaker
Yeah, I think the connection is everything. and you I think often, ah for example, in in my work in London, we often see young people coming in who've been victim to stabbing or other interpersonal violence and there is sometimes an assumption amongst healthcare care and you know police and other organizations that are just you know the gang gang members. it was you know if It was bound to happen at some stage or you know that there's judgment around that.
00:37:10
Speaker
and i think We have to remember that they're vulnerable children, human beings at the end of this. And actually we're more alike than we're different. And I often think, you know, I'm lucky, you know, my teenage children are at home or maybe not at home, but somewhere safe. And they're not victims of this level of violence.
00:37:41
Speaker
This person in front of me is somebody else's son or daughter, and they're not loved any less because of what they may or may not be involved with. It's not for me to judge that. One of my colleagues on Don't Forget the Bubbles, Henry, always always has this lovely turn of phrase about everything in general. But one of the things that he says is, people come to us for health care, not health judgment. And I think that is incredibly important to hold on to.
00:38:13
Speaker
Wow. Yes. I want to live in that world. I want to live in the world where we let go of judgment and we see, we create more bridges. And I think it's, it is possible one Becky at a time, but it is, I do see how hard it is as humans.
Overcoming Exclusion and Fostering Compassion
00:38:39
Speaker
We've had many conversations on the podcast about, you know, our nature is to see ah ourselves as tribes, in tribes as to see ourselves as different, us and them, and how much pain that creates.
00:38:57
Speaker
And even though that is a human default, so we were born into because of the world that we evolved from, Well, we haven't evolved from quite yet, actually. We're still working on the evolution part. We're still living with a brain that, you know, came into action when we were incredibly threatened. And so we're very good at finding threat in others. And I think What we want to be looking at is through your lens where it's not so much about difference, but what do we share? Because the world can be a better place when you're looking at what we have in common with especially somebody else who's suffering. And I think about the young people that, you know, my sister talks about and I've got two boys and I think
00:39:55
Speaker
You know, they're suffering. Those young people are suffering and have a lot of challenges ahead of them. And they need our compassion and our support more than our judgment. But we judge when we see difference. And we had a great conversation. Actually, it's reminding me of the one we had with Amy Beto's about victim blame.
00:40:19
Speaker
And it was very powerful that you know we all feel better when we blame a victim than when we start to to recognize that we've fallen into those patterns and that victims are victims. And it feels so uncomfortable to see victims as victims because we want to find out how to keep ourselves safe. And by blaming a victim, we feel safer ourselves. But the bottom line, I think,
00:40:48
Speaker
what I'm saying in a very long convoluted way is I want to live in a world where we're not so black and white, we're not so tribal. We are freer of judgment. We're braver to see connection and in the ways that you've described. All right. Any final thought? I think I'd just like Becky to talk very briefly, because I know we're running out of time, about you know the loving your patient.
00:41:18
Speaker
Because we haven't really touched on that as deeply as... Oh, yes. Yes, I love that. And I think that is very new and radical, air quotes again. So go ahead, talk a little bit about why is it important to love your patient and it feels... Yeah, it's a perspective that I mean, as psychologists, I think we can recognize, but
Exploring Diverse Forms of Love
00:41:45
Speaker
I don't know. I don't think it's talked about much in the medical field. I think it's interesting, and I reflected on this a lot. I think there are many different types of love and probably, I think the Greeks had a ah better way of describing love than we do, and they have lots of different words for it.
00:42:07
Speaker
But we just use this one word that's in many ways inadequate. And I think we tend to think of love as something that's either romantic or something that we can only associate with people in our family or our very close friendship group.
00:42:30
Speaker
But actually, if you think about love as connection rather than anything else, it's easier to understand how we might be able to love our patients. And I think sometimes that just means a deep sense of care and connection and compassion rather than anything that's romantic or that might be reserved for our family.
00:43:04
Speaker
I once told a young man in recess that I loved him speaker because that was what he needed to hear in that moment. He thought that he was dying.
00:43:21
Speaker
he needed to feel love. And in that moment, I think I felt so much connection and compassion and just my heart was so kind of full for him that I told him I loved him and it wasn't a lie. Beautiful. And wow, I'm just so touched again by that. I can just imagine how much that mattered to that young man. And I think about it with our clients sometimes that, you know, they've been devoid of real love and they haven't felt.
Addressing Loneliness Through Compassion
00:43:56
Speaker
And I mean, it's not just, I mean, we're talking about this client, but I'm thinking,
00:44:00
Speaker
in the world in general, how many of us are feeling lonely and disconnected? It's a huge problem we face, a huge problem. and Just to think that we can walk around thinking of how to help someone feel more loved and respected and cared for in this moment. It feels really yeah precious, beautiful. I think it's something about You know, I see you, I value you and I respect you, and I can feel for you, I want to be connected with you, even if it's only for a moment. You matter to me as a fellow human being. Long that lasts. And that is a form of love.
00:44:51
Speaker
for other humans. So it's not wrong to feel that for our patients or or our clients, somebody else that we've shared a moment with in the course of our daily lives. That's part of the human condition.
00:45:10
Speaker
Yes. And absolutely. I mean, it makes complete sense. How could it not be? Right. It just, how could it not be? And I think when we train and I imagine it's similar in the medical field, you know, there's a lot of conversations about obviously romantic love is absolutely off.
00:45:31
Speaker
But how to create that, we call it the therapeutic alliance and how time after time, studies after to studies, that is the biggest piece that influences change in therapy. And if we think of the sort of outcomes of long lasting, loving relationships, it's the friendship and feeling really seen and understood by your partner. And if we think of the impact of parenting, it's that sort of secure bond So how could it be different with the rest of the human connections that really it's that being seen really matters. And the more we can gift our community with that, be it in any relationship or any interaction.
00:46:20
Speaker
I think the better the world can be. We can combat almost this serious problem we have with loneliness and disconnection and you know you even politics. and There is this taking sides that goes against
00:46:44
Speaker
This, well, it doesn't go against, but it gets in the way of our ability to connect with the humans. in either side. And I think I talk about often on the podcast and often with my couples, Jedi skills. Some of these Jedi skills as humans is our ability to see beyond the difference, beyond what we don't agree with. Here are some of these incredible humans that have sort of walked the planet, have been able to do that, not to get caught up on the difference. I love the term Jedi skills. I think I might steal that. Take it. If it's useful.
00:47:21
Speaker
Yeah. If my couples are ever listening to the podcast, they'll recognize it because I think that it is hard. It's not easy. It's not easy for us to look over difference, different, you know, somebody having a different perspective to us. Like if I think about when I'm having an argument, that's what I'm looking at that you don't agree with me and you are wrong.
00:47:47
Speaker
I'm right. How could you think that? yeah I love being right. It's one of my favorite pastimes. oh yeah and so Being able to sit of sit back and take a moment to actually listen to what this other person is saying is a Jedi skill because and you know I'd like to gallop on the righteous horse much more than sit back and be humble um and risk being wrong.
00:48:17
Speaker
I hate being humble. That lovely saying, isn't there? I don't know where it came from. If you have to make a choice between being right and being kind, choose kind. yeah I think that's what, you Chris, you've shared that one before. Well, it was a friend of mine in graduate school whose two children were fighting and a seven-year-old and a nine-year-old, and she was about to break it up when she heard the seven-year-old girl say to the nine-year-old boy, do you want to be right or do you want it to work out? Oh, I love that. I know, how smart. My my answer is like, well, both, you know. Both, yeah, sure.
00:48:59
Speaker
I want it to work out because I'm right, but we can't always have both.
Choosing Kindness and Gratitude
00:49:08
Speaker
We can be right or we can be kind. We can be right or we can have it work out. Yes. It's so seductive, the wanting to be right. Yeah. um man yeah I'm still working on that Jedi skill. I think we all are. I think that that the trachea is recognizing that we're still working on it.
00:49:29
Speaker
yeah Yeah, yeah it's so so it's a work in progress. What 100%? 100%. Righteousness in recovery. Righteousness in recovery. Oh, yes. I love that. Brilliant. I think I might just put that up somewhere in my household. There's a lot of that going on. Well, thank you, Becky. I think I could have another hour, at least. Well, Beto, I've really enjoyed this conversation.
00:49:59
Speaker
It's just, I wish I had the tissues because I would have, I felt there's some, I was holding back, but your stories are very touching. And I feel privileged to have had your time, but I think the world is better with you in it. Honestly, I think, yeah, incredible work. That was very kind to thank you so much. And thank you for this chapter of ours together.
00:50:28
Speaker
as our lives have collided and yeah we move beyond you know better for it. So yeah, I encourage everyone to check out the show notes and see your you know listen to your TED Talk and check out Don't Forget the Bubbles and Save the Children. Beautiful. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you.
00:50:52
Speaker
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00:51:13
Speaker
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