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Secret #32: Choicefulness with Dr. Aprilia West
179 Plays9 months ago
In this episode of 'Life's Dirty Little Secrets,' hosts Chris McCurry and Emma Waddington engage in an insightful conversation with Dr. Aprilia West, a renowned psychologist, executive coach, and author, about the concept of 'choicefulness.' West, with over 20 years of experience working with various individuals and organizations, delves into how our power lies in our moments of choice.
She explains how default reactions can limit our potential and discusses the importance of mindful, intentional decision-making. The conversation covers practical steps for developing choicefulness, recognizing cognitive and emotional biases, and aligning actions with what truly matters to us.
This engaging and enlightening discussion is essential for anyone looking to tap into their full potential and live a more intentional life.
Highlights:
- Defining choicefulness
- Emotional efficacy
- Defaults and behavior patterns
- Values and decision making
- Cognitive biases
- Emotionally driven decisions
About Dr. Aprilia West
Follow @drapriliawest on Instagram
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Dr. Aprilia West brings 20+ years of real-world experience working with individuals, leaders and organizations across a range of industries, including Fortune 500 companies, U.S. Congress, entertainment industry executives, artists and creatives, and tech founders to increase wellbeing and performance. Her extensive experience as a psychologist, executive coach and trainer gives her a niche understanding of human behavior and how to facilitate positive, prosocial change.
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Reach out and let us know you are listening and what you would like to hear on the show - email:lifesdirtylittlesecretspodcast@gmail.com
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Transcript
Society's View on Fallibility
00:00:02
Speaker
We are all very human and fallible, and yet we live in a society that rewards pretending we're not fallible, or the range of acceptable fallibility is narrow. We are constantly comparing our insides to other people's outsides and feeling inadequate and guilty, even ashamed. Trying to blend in means parts of ourselves will disappear, and we must then live in fear that we will be found out.
Embracing Humanity
00:00:26
Speaker
Here, together, we will create a space where we can laugh, cry, and carry our suffering and hurts lightly in the service of being deeply human.
Introduction to 'Life's Dirty Little Secrets'
00:00:36
Speaker
This is Life's Dirty Little Secrets. Secrets.
Guest Introduction: Aprilia West
00:00:46
Speaker
Hello, I'm Emma Waddington and I am so delighted to have Aprilia West here with us. I've known Aprilia for a few years and it's my delight to have her today. She brings over 20 years experience with individuals, leaders, organizations across a range of industries, including Fortune 500 companies. U.S. Congress Entertainment Industry executives, artists, creatives, tech founders to increase well-being and performance. Her extensive experience as a psychologist, executive coach, and trainer gives her a niche understanding of human behavior, which is wonderful.
00:01:24
Speaker
And she's co-authored several books and publications related to psychology and decision making, including Act for Your Best Life, which was published last year.
Discussion of Aprilia's Book: 'What You Feel Is Not All There Is'
00:01:34
Speaker
What You Feel Is Not All There Is, which was published in 2021, and that's the one we're going to be focusing on today. And she's co-author of Acceptance and Commitment, Coaching in the Workplace in Positive Psychology in the Workplace, Spring of 2021. So that was published a couple of years ago, and the Clinician's Guide to Emotion Efficacy Therapy, which is how I met Aprilia, which is a fantastic book and model, actually. So today we're going to be talking together about choicefulness. So welcome, Aprilia. Thank you so much for coming.
00:02:09
Speaker
Thank you so much for having me. I'm looking forward to this conversation with you guys. Yes, yes, it's going to be brilliant. So maybe we can kick off with defining choicefulness. What do we mean by that?
Choicefulness and Intentional Living
00:02:22
Speaker
Yeah, so choicefulness is, I don't know if I made it up, but I don't know if I've seen it anywhere else. And it's really something I got to through my study of emotion science, because what I gleaned from over 10 years of research and working on the emotion efficacy therapy protocol and piloting that and then creating the construct of emotion efficacy was that our power is found in moments of choice.
00:02:53
Speaker
That's really where we get to choose how we want to show up, what we want to express, what we want to expand or contract. And when people don't realize this, they often end up living their lives in what I refer to as just a trance of reactivity. which you know is not bad or wrong, it's how we're designed to be. But if we really care about tapping our full potential and what's possible for us in life, then we need to develop more choicefulness. And I define choicefulness as really just how skillful you are in optimizing for what matters most, even in the face of stress, challenge, and pain.
00:03:37
Speaker
So yes, that's that's such an interesting introduction and just a thought about choicefulness that often we think we are making choices. But what you're suggesting is that sometimes we're not like that more about that reactive part. Well, so the key is exactly what you just said there, that reactive part. So, you know, in any moment we're living our lives by default or design.
Aligning Choices with Values
00:04:04
Speaker
And default means simply that we just are reacting in the way that we're hardwired to react to our environment. and And that can be what's happening inside of us, can be what's happening outside of us. And typically that helps people survive or think fast on their feet when something's happening and they need to make a quick choice.
00:04:28
Speaker
When we function more to live by design, what we're doing is we're actually assessing what really matters to us in the context we're in. And then we're choosing our behavior very intentionally by being creative to show up in ways that we actually move toward what matters to us. So in that inside of that, you could think of any choice that you make is moving you either toward or away from what really matters to you. And in that default mode, unfortunately, a lot of times we end up just doing whatever feels easiest or most familiar or least threatening or most comfortable or most practiced.
Mindfulness in Relationships
00:05:13
Speaker
So it's not, it's not the way to live your most creative, intentional, flexible life. So thinking about that, that default, because I think that this is for many people, quite a new way of thinking about behavior. Like I don't think we often realize to what extent the default and the reactivity is there. And so maybe we could give some examples because I think people do probably recognize when they are very scared or something. Or very angry and they say something they didn't want to but i think it be even more nuanced than that.
00:05:50
Speaker
Yes, definitely. So even as I'm sitting here now, you know I notice that I'm holding my breath a little bit more than I normally would because I'm anticipating what you're going to say. And that is a default reaction. I don't have to think about or try to do that. It happens naturally. And so it is with most of our 35,000 choices that we make every day. There's a whole lot of defaulting going on. Now, again, you know this is not black and white. Default is not bad. You don't want to have to think, oh, there's something in my eye I should blink until you know my eye makes enough you know eye water to flush it out. like It's nice. It conserves energy for us to have those kinds of default reactions.
00:06:40
Speaker
However, if someone comes up and asks me, you know, what do you want to do today? And they present me with a choice instead of, you know, just reacting based on whatever is most comfortable, familiar, practiced. I have, I have an opportunity that I'll miss if I just default in that moment. I have an opportunity to actually design what happens next and how I want to show up. So in that sense, it really is a secret for a lot of
Changing Entrenched Routines
00:07:11
Speaker
people. They don't realize, wow, I'm making all these choices. I'm moving from moment of choice to moment of choice throughout the day. And again, some of those are some of those default ah choices are helpful to us in the context. We don't necessarily want to have to think about
00:07:28
Speaker
what we're doing all the time. That would you know exhaust anyone. But we do want the ability to be choiceful in the sense that we recognize the choices that matter to us and then we optimize by choosing what matters most. I mean, this has shown up for me in my work with the working with parents and their kids, because parents and kids get into routines. I called them dances. One author called them automatized transactional patterns, which is a bit clunky. But it's the idea that we get into these routines that are very well practiced. And in that way, they can be highly efficient. Getting out of the house in the morning, bedtime.
00:08:11
Speaker
That's great. But if the routine isn't working well, but everybody's on autopilot and ah then they're really hard to change. And and the first step is to create some awareness, some mindfulness about what you're doing. So I read somewhere that awareness creates the possibility of of choice. But if we're just like on autopilot on default mode, then yeah, we're just, we're zipping through these things, wondering why things are yet again going so badly.
00:08:43
Speaker
Yes, exactly. Yeah. I mean, you're talking there about, you know, the dance is based in our learning his history is what we call it in the nerdy, you know, contextual behavioral science community, which really just means it's what we know with a certain person in a particular context. And we just do that. and Again, sometimes that defaulting is helpful. you know my My
Reflecting on Personal Dynamics
00:09:07
Speaker
goddaughters and I have certain ways of dancing with each other that are known and familiar that we don't really have to think about. and We in some ways are defaulting. We're not actually looking to change or make different choices in some of those kinds of rituals.
00:09:23
Speaker
And when that's all you do, you can end up living a much smaller life than is possible for you. So that awareness of choice is so key as you're saying. And I guess then, so if we sort of break it down even further, Getting to that place where you notice that something's not working is kind of step one, right? Like if I think of my life or in the life of my client's friends, being able to reflect on, is this really the way I want to be relating to this person? For example, I do quite a lot of couples therapy. um And there is an assumption that this is just the way it's going to be.
00:10:04
Speaker
her Actually that first step to notice that actually I'd like it to be different. I'd like to be doing things differently or I'd like more out of this or less out of this, whatever it might be. But that first step to recognize that something isn't quite the way we want it to be. Exactly. Is that the way we start, do you think? Yes, because that otherwise we're in a disempowered state right where we're resigned and you know maybe even cynical in the sense that we have just we've we've decided nothing else is possible. And so realizing something is working and that there are opportunities to choose something different, to expand your the moves you're making in your relationships or in your work or in your life is the first step.
Decoding Personal Values
00:10:52
Speaker
to stepping into your full power. Yes, exactly. And that noticing, and and then the second step would be to try and think about what you'd want it to be instead, maybe. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I tend to think in, you know, three steps, awareness, and then learning how to decode what matters to you is sort of the second step. right? Because there's, you know, as we'll probably get into here in a little bit, the biases that we're all born with and that influence our choices are often going to get in the way of us being able to decode what I call the emotional signal from the emotional noise there. And then the third step is really designing your actions in line with what matters to you. When you walk us through those three steps,
00:11:44
Speaker
Sure, we can let's get into it. So the first step is really just about awareness of moments of choice. And as Emma mentioned, that usually starts with what we might think of as ah an emotion trigger, right? Or as she said, you know, I'm noticing something's not working for me, whether that's, you know, uncomfortable experience or a relationship pattern that you don't want to continue. And you start by just realizing, wow, you know, I have a choice about what I do next. And in the emotion efficacy therapy work that I have developed and continue to work on over the last decade, I have people get very clear on what's happening, what their experience is, and they learn to identify and label all of their emotional stuff, which includes sensations, thoughts, urges, and feelings.
00:12:41
Speaker
And just to be aware, wow, all of these things are exerting a lot of influence on what I choose to do or how I'm choosing to show up for myself or you know in my life. So the first step again is just getting clear on you know what's happening at any moment for me emotionally and especially in moments where I'm triggered and might be more likely to default to an automatic reaction the second step is learning how to listen carefully enough to what your emotions are telling you.
Navigating Emotional Signals
00:13:14
Speaker
To differentiate when they're just trying to help you optimize for safety certainty comforting coherence and when they're trying to help you do what matters most.
00:13:27
Speaker
Now, again, let's be clear, sometimes safety is what matters most. Sometimes you need to focus on surviving. But most of the time in modern life, we're more surviving what other people think of us or how we're thinking of ourselves. So it takes a much more sophisticated sophisticated kind of listening to ah hear those signals that tell you you know what would what would most expand your life in your moment of choice so i really kind of more obvious example might be if you know after this podcast today i'm closing down my computer and i'm thinking about my commitment to go work out.
00:14:13
Speaker
And then I'm also thinking about the fact that, you know, I'm at the very last episode on a show that I've been watching and there's a book I've been wanting to read and figuring out, you know, what matters most, what will move me. toward my values and recognizing I have a moment of choice. Now, I may actually prefer to read the book or watch the show. That might be what feels most comfortable or pleasurable to me. And I am being, you know, somewhat practice choice maker very clear that exercise is, you know, very, very clearly what matters most to me. And so I'm going to choose that.
00:14:55
Speaker
There are competing interests at times that we have to sort out. There are competing interests. Absolutely. Absolutely. So the third step. Yeah, so that leads us to the third step, which is figuring out, you know, based on these different values that I have in this particular context, this moment, this situation, this relationship, this day, this hour, this breath even, you know, what matters most to me? And then figuring out how do I design action that aligns with my values in this moment?
00:15:30
Speaker
and so that's That's the third step. If you can master those three steps, which I call mindfulness, mindset, and meaningful moves, you're you're going to be very much in your power and and very, what we're calling, choiceful. and I'm fascinated as I listen to that. I'm just thinking of, you know in my own head, moments where I may have thought I was being choiceful, but actually I probably wasn't. like Sometimes it's in hindsight, it's afterwards that we realized that that wasn't the right thing to do. How that opportunity to reflect helps us to see the patterns of behavior and to think about impact. so sometimes
00:16:14
Speaker
Do you think that sometimes we have to do this work afterwards? Like in the moment over various sort of perhaps conversations like, you know, Chris was talking about some of these dances that we have, you know, as parents, but also as partners or at work, or it might be that you find yourself regularly missing out on exercise and choosing the couch or your book. Over time, we can come to reflect that this is not working like some of these decision reflections don't necessarily happen in the moment.
00:16:47
Speaker
Right. No, and this is where you know tracking and and personal feedback is so important. you know i'm I might not notice if I don't exercise one day if it weren't for having ways of tracking that. you know I have time where I check in on my commitments every day and I figure out, you know am I playing The games that matter to me at the highest level and you know and this is what i do a lot and with my therapy and coaching clients is that we have really clear metrics so that we can be. Boss level choice makers you know you have to be aware you know what are you choosing your always choosing something the question is what are you choosing.
00:17:28
Speaker
And is it what really matters to you? So I think this is a lifelong journey becoming choiceful. You know, a lot of my own reflection, you know, what I learned the most from is looking back and reflecting on what happened. Why did it happen that way? Why did it go that way? And really making sense of, you know, what was my subjective state, aka my, you know, emotional base that led to the choice that I made.
Understanding Biases in Decision-Making
00:17:58
Speaker
you know, that led to optimizing for something. You know, there's really four types of interference that I've kind of crunched all the 200 some affective and cognitive biases into that might also be helpful to share with your listeners. Because I think just, you know, being aware that this exists and then looking for it in our choices can be another way to do what you're saying, Emma, which is to, you know, really get good at
00:18:24
Speaker
figuring out when your biases are you know choosing for you and when you're choosing. and The first one is just that there's we're working really hard. you know As I mentioned, 35,000 choices a day, not all of those are intentional you know choices. A lot of them are just default reactions, but it's still a lot of choosing. And there's actually just too much noise in our space that we have to sort through. And so our biases have us default to what is most familiar, because we can't possibly process and sort through everything that we can come in that we come into contact with.
00:19:07
Speaker
So what this what this could be broken down to for someone is to just notice that there's a lot of information and what you have control over is your attention. yeah What are you going to pay attention to? And for some people that's you know, harder than for others. You know, I happen to be on the mild side of the ADD continuum. And so my attention can really ping all over the place unless, you know, I'm aware of what's happening. And then I also have that superpower of hyper focusing like a lot of people who, you know, are neurodiverse in that way.
00:19:45
Speaker
But too much noise can definitely overwhelm me. And then, you know, I lose the thread. I lose the plot. I'm not being intentional. I'm just sort of at the effect of stuff that's coming at me. So that's the first one. The second one is there's just not enough obvious emotional signal. So then we get busy as we are humans being these meaning making machines. And we make meaning of everything, even when we don't have enough evidence to support the meaning we're making. And so that can lead to making choices. For instance, you know, if you're in a relationship and you have a certain listening of someone, it's very easy to predict what that person's going to say or how they feel. And then they say something to you and you make meaning based on it, even when it's not helpful.
00:20:37
Speaker
So that's the second kind of interference we see with choicefulness. Can I just, because that is so important, that making meaning, our brain being a sort of meaning making machine, maybe we can sort of expand just a little bit to, for our listeners to understand what we mean. but we That, if you could just describe when we say meaning making, what are we, what are we saying? Yeah, so the way I tend to explain it to clients or in trainings is that there's sort of two ways of thinking about life. One is just what happens, right? These are observable, verifiable events. Like there was, most people would agree there was a solar eclipse about a month ago now, I think, a full solar eclipse. You know, most people would agree that right now Joe Biden is president of the United States.
00:21:30
Speaker
Now, the other part of life as we understand it is the meaning we make of these things. So, you know, I bet there's lots of different meanings if we were to interview people about what does it mean that there was a full solar eclipse? And I bet we get all kinds of responses from it's an incredible natural wonder to, you know, the gods and goddesses are aligned to who knows what else people might make meaning about that. Certainly there's a lot of different meanings people make about Joe Biden being the president of the United States. So when you think about meaning making, we're just talking about how do we put language into reality in ways that allows us to interpret our experience.
00:22:19
Speaker
right So we could have the same experience on this podcast right now, but come away making really different meaning about it. You you know you could say, oh, gosh, April talked so much. you know That was a tough interview for us. And I could come away thinking, wow, I got to talk so much. That was amazing. So that's what I mean by meeting making machines. And I guess it's not intentional always. We're born with it. We're born with it and we're born to be right about it. And I actually talk a lot about that in my book, What You Feel Is Not All There Is, about how driven we are to make meaning and then look for evidence to support what we already believe. And this is what makes it so hard for people to change their minds. it goes back to
00:23:10
Speaker
yeah is just simulation and accommodation. I mean, we would just have this tendency to just assimilate information into our three existing notions and structures. And yeah accommodation change is is is really hard, but it's it's really true. We have these biases and and there's comfort in that and stability in that. and yeah exactly And it's just so interesting that that meaning making machine runs sometimes just under our awareness.
00:23:42
Speaker
her don't necessarily notice that we have made an assumption about somebody's intention or somebody's behavior. When I talk to clients about the meaning making machine, they'll be so surprised at what their default, because sometimes we will have these default ways of seeing things and then we'll seek, you know, like you said, coherence, we'd like to be right. Even when it's really awful, like we're seeking coherence that we are a bad parent.
00:24:15
Speaker
You know, we we like to be right even when it's really painful. and So yeah, these meaning-making machines are ah powerful. And I think this stuff is exacerbated when we're feeling stressed. I know that we regress when we're stressed back to like four-year-olds. Our thoughts become fat and we become very egocentric. and rigid and all these things and, you know, under stress, we're we're even more likely to do these things and have these cognitive biases show up. And that that becomes a very vicious cycle.
00:24:50
Speaker
Yeah. And they're cognitive and affective because they at the root of them is essentially how we feel. you know in In my book, What You Feel Is Not All There Is, I talk about emotional reasoning bias. And emotional reasoning bias is actually the opposite of the title of my book, which is What You Feel Is All There Is. Right. And so, and the reason we're wired that way is to survive because we want to, we need to be right about the fact that the lion on the Savannah is looking for lunch and that we are the lunch. And if we're wrong about that, it could mean our deaths. So we evolve then to want to be right about, you know, my coworker is giving me side eye and that means
00:25:37
Speaker
that they're upset with me. that I need to be careful or I need to hide or I need to have a conversation. So so the meaning making is very much about interpreting threat and safety cues at the very you know core of it. And then you know we kind of move up what not necessarily in a linear way, but a hierarchy of needs. where we can pay attention to other things other than just surviving the lion on the savanna. Thank you. That's really helpful. I am glad we had that digression. I think it's important. So I took you off. You were talking about the the third step. So we were starting to talk more about of interference actually. the the types Yes, great. Yeah. So, so far we have that there's just too much information and for us to take it all in, that there's not enough clear signal about what the meaning of things is. The third one is just that the they're the biases that help us act quickly to survive.
00:26:39
Speaker
So we tend to rush to judgment based on all kinds of factors that may or may not be accurate. So we jumped you could think of this one broadly as we jump to conclusions, right? And that helps us make choices, especially in high-stakes situations. Again, that can be helpful if you're standing in the middle of the road and a bus is careening toward you, but it could be really unhelpful in situations where your survival is not at stake. And then the fourth type of interference is is quite simply one of capacity, that we can't remember everything. So we tend to reduce or condense or pay attention to certain things that we think are important to remember and we sort of throw out the rest.
00:27:20
Speaker
This is why memory is not very reliable for a lot of us, even if we're not you know struggling with some sort of memory challenge. And yeah and and then, as I mentioned, there's over 200 of these biases that you know, are influencing our choices in every in any moment.
Strategies for Value-Based Choices
00:27:39
Speaker
So being aware that we have to really come online and be very intentional about what we're doing, how we're choosing to show up is really the most transformative work I think I do with people.
00:27:54
Speaker
Yeah. And do you think noticing these biases could be useful too, like tracking them? There's so many and given the last the last category of we just can't remember everything, I think it's more helpful just to know that there might be a lot of fake news happening. that you know it's worth kind of double, maybe even triple checking to see, you know is this really what matters most to me? And that could be anything from you know is working out tonight you know in context. right you know That can look really different if I've had a full day and I'm training all day tomorrow or if I just happen to not feel like going to the gym. And so being aware that there's
00:28:40
Speaker
just a lot of maybe you could think of it as just forces moving against you doing what matters most at any moment, trying to keep you safe, comfortable, secure, you know, certain coherent. That's to me what makes the biggest difference is just people being aware or be people being able to just, you know, pause and be thoughtful and to be in that inquiry. Yeah. much simpler not to add yeah to the cognitive loads. Yeah, so you can do it in the moment. You can also, you can also pre-design, you know, as I was mentioning earlier, I wrote a whole chapter at the end of my book on playing infinite games. And that has to do with
00:29:24
Speaker
you know basically getting what you care about or what you want to create into reality in an effective way. And that can include everything from just getting really clear on you know what it is that you want to do, what are the milestones, and then using you know leveraging some of the neuroscience to rehearse yourself, making those moves that then make it easier for you to to to choose new behaviors for yourself. So there's there's a lot you can do both in the moment but also ah ahead of it. Yeah. And and and and later. yeah So you can actually. And after the fact. Exactly. Yeah, because there's so much learning and. So much. A replay and, you know, yeah.
Embracing Self-Compassion
00:30:09
Speaker
And assessing.
00:30:11
Speaker
Yeah. And just take opportunity it's is that space, right? It used to be called acceptance and commitment therapy that the model that we all are very familiar with used to be called cognitive distancing, didn't it? Yeah. um comprehensive distancing. Oh, But that distancing, right? That taking that space, be it to think ahead of what I want to do in this moment or to reflect back with a kind lens, because often we reflect back with a critical lens, you know, can help us to make better choices or choices that are more aligned with the life we want to be bolder, braver with a bit of time and space.
00:30:55
Speaker
the So self-compassion plays a role here. Yeah. And I think, you know, I find that that just opens up for people when they learn about this universal human condition, you know, that we are all born with what I call the three B's, a certain biological preset, a set of biases that influence our choices. And finally, learned behaviors, you know patterns of behavior based on you know our history, our experience in life. and you know And then we act the way we act in the context. And if we're not able or we don't have the tools to be self-aware, we are going to default and and being self-compassionate is key there, right? We're not making anyone or ourselves bad or wrong for what we do.
00:31:49
Speaker
we just hopefully want to be more intentional and and be designing our actions in critical moments of choice. I love that. I love the three B's. Is is that in your, in which is that in one of your books? Because I hadn't. It it is. it's Yeah, it's it's in what you feel is not all there is. It's in chapter two, almost where I kind of set the stage. it's I call it the nerdy chapter. It's the chapter for people who like theory, kind of frame up the skills that follow. I love that. That's really because it is true that one of the most you know compassionate lenses is to realize that so much is happening that's out of, not out of our control, but that we're not intentionally making it happen. That biological level or that sometimes say to my clients, this moment is telling us more about your history.
00:32:42
Speaker
than it is about you. They'll feel very upset about what happened, but then look at historically what they've done. Or even you know if we go right back and some of the their history and their childhood can build those narratives and can make meaning for them. and And that is a very validating, but also normalizing moment to realize that you know, i'm i'm I'm not in control the whole time of of of my history and the influences that I have on the biological level of this moment. Like you're saying some of those affect impacts, but also some of that, you know, learned history. This is something that I've been doing for a really long time. Yeah. it's yeah that is That is a tricky thing. I think for all of us is, you know, we are a hundred percent responsible for our choices and yet we're also limited
00:33:33
Speaker
by how aware we are, how mindful we are, by you know how easily we get hooked by thoughts or how you know how much we need to have a certain idea about ourselves or have other people believe a certain thing about us. And then how well we know how to design actions based on what matters most.
Living by Authentic Values
00:33:53
Speaker
Once you realize that all of that is going on, you have more access to the idea that you're you're more than any moment of choice. To me, that is such a kind perspective to come from. I like that. You're more than any moment of choice. So true.
00:34:10
Speaker
paid powerful. And so maybe it would help. Oh, I'd love to talk to you about, cause in emotion efficacy, we talk a lot about values and I love the whole section you have about values there. And I still use it with my clients. and love I love the, to reference the list and we took that list. Perhaps we can touch a little bit about, you know, what do we mean by values? But also how do we come to think about what is important to us? a
00:34:40
Speaker
hu Because our values can change over our lifespan, context to context. And therere also there's also sometimes difficulty distinguishing between what we've learned from our parents or the culture or scripts that we've run that have been successful for us in our lives around what matters or what our friends think matters. So I feel like the values pieces, you know, i I feel like I'm always pulling the thread even for myself and discovering, oh, wow, you know, that doesn't matter so much to me now, or I thought that mattered and it doesn't matter so much. So it's really an exploration and the list is just a starting place to begin to put some language on defining what matters to you. So one of my, one of the values I talk about for myself is possibility. I've just,
00:35:33
Speaker
you know Nothing lights me up more than talking about what's possible with people. And then you know I've aligned a lot of my work life and my personal life around you know making something else possible. and But it took me you know it took me years to get there because I grew up with sort of more traditional kinds of values around service and work. and you know those Those things are still important to me, but but nothing lights me up more than the idea of helping other people see what's possible for themselves that they don't already see as possible.
00:36:09
Speaker
So there's a kind of resonance. I almost liken it to you'll recognize what really matters to you because it's sort of like listening to a favorite song. You know, you can feel you know the energy in your body. You can feel yourself get excited about that value or about something that you've done aligned with that value when you're discovering what that is. And then you know once you have some idea of what your core values are, and you know we can have infinite numbers, um or we can have several that we really you know focus in on, then it's a matter of you know moment to moment what matters to me.
00:36:52
Speaker
And I don't actually think you have to stop and say, OK, what's the value here? I think we can get to a place where we can just know like, OK, I'm rushing, but my partner's son needs something right now. I can see that he's upset. So, you know, I'm going to stop and I'm going to be present and listen. Now, do I need to know what the word or the value is for that in order to do that? No. But do I need to know I have a choice in order to express my values in that situation? Yes, I do. Or else I would just default to you know moving on with the day. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. I love that value of possibility. i' I've never thought about it, but I can feel myself lighting up.
00:37:42
Speaker
I love the like values, can because I think there is something so experiential about values. It can get really wordy. Sometimes, like you said, when we look at these lists that you get, sometimes we can get stuck with your sort of conventional values, like you said, and and actually trying a value on. yeah you would um listen to a song and see how it feels and how it connects to you. yes and seven Yeah, that's exciting. And in some ways, well more heartfelt instead of being too violent. Yeah, it's less heady, right? Yeah, less heady, which I think gets in the way.
00:38:27
Speaker
of what's right, the right value. Yeah, yeah let me choose the right values or the right words or something, which, you know, I think as professionals, sometimes we get so attached to a model that we, you know, we sort of lose the the deeper intention, you know, or what we're actually trying to accomplish. And, you know, my, a lot of my clients are incredibly meaningfully engaged in their lives, but it doesn't mean that they always know what value they're expressing in any moment. That's right. Yeah. Amazing. Really great.
00:39:04
Speaker
It's fantastic. Now, you know, the idea of I need to choose the right values is kind of right therewith. I need to be right, um which means i I can't take a risk here. And sometimes living in that, you know, zone of the heart can feel very risky. but There's some an uncertainty in the possibilities. Yes, I think that goes to learning how to what I call relax your ego, which is another way of getting at the act process. We all know called self as context where, you know, the story you have about yourself doesn't have to be all shiny and and perfect, but that you can try things on and you can decide, you know, later that you wish you would have chosen something else. And that's okay. That that's part of figuring it out.
00:40:00
Speaker
That's how we learn. That's right. Relax your ego. I've just written that down. I'll be using it today in my therapy. Relax your ego. Or with your children. Yeah, it's it's one of the cards actually in the deck, act for your best life. the One of the practices I called it, relax your ego. My goodness, I need to do some shopping, get you a latest stuff because it sounds amazing. Thanks. Thanks so much. Yes, and now you have a new fan. My supporter of my work for a while, I have to say, I've been so grateful for that. She's she's a wonderful support. She has been of mine for many years now. ah but we We value her very much. Oh, thank you. Oh, my goodness. My ego is loving this. i know Well, relax it.
00:40:51
Speaker
I'm enjoying this. Thank you. and and As long as you're noticing that your ego loves it, that you're relaxing. Okay. That's good. That's good. A little, a little comprehensive distancing right there. Exactly. We'll take it. All right. Thank you so much. You're welcome so much. I hope it was what you hoped for. Oh, absolutely. And we'll have a link to your website in the show notes and people can stick you out and read your books and
Podcast Closing and Engagement
00:41:25
Speaker
be deaf. And get new cards. I'll be doing that. Cool. That sounds great. It's been a real pleasure. All right. Take care, you guys.
00:41:33
Speaker
Thanks so much for tuning into the Life's Dirty Little Secrets Podcast. If you have any feedback for us or secrets for future episodes, you can email us at life's dirty little secrets podcast at gmail dot.com. Be sure to follow us on Instagram at life's dirty little secrets or on Facebook at life's dirty little secrets podcast. We invite you to follow, rate and review us on wherever you listen to this podcast. It is the best way to get our podcast out in front of new listeners. We'll be back in a couple of weeks with more. See you then.