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CLL#10 - Dr. Erin MacDonald Interview
85 Plays1 year ago
Travel back into the CLL Catalog with an interview from 2021 with Dr. Erin MacDonald, one of the current science advisors for Star Trek. With credits on Picard, Lower Decks, Prodigy, and Strange New Worlds, this interview with Dr. Erin is not one to be missed! Jonathan and Chris had an incredible opportunity to interview Dr. Erin MacDonald, a PhD in Astophysics from the University of Glasgow in Scotland! MacDonald, in 2019, was hired as the official science consultant for the ever-expanding Star Trek Universe and currently works on all shows in development. Dr. Erin talks about her love of both franchises, her strong connections to Star Wars Rebels and Kathryn Janeway, how her love of Star Trek led to working on the franchise, and the science behind warp travel. Will humanity experience First Contact Day in 2063, or is this event purely a work of science fiction? Listen and find out the answer!
0:00 Introduction/Guest Background
2:25 First Trek/Wars Experience
6:45 Influential Characters
12:00 Learning About Janeway’s Return
15:15 Scientific Accuracy in Star Wars
18:05 The Mycelial Network in Discovery
21:10 First Contact Day On Time?
25:00 Turning Trek Love Into a Career
30:20 Dr. Mac Influences Trek Science
35:10 Kathryn Janeway/Kate Mulgrew
43:35 Advice for Women in the Sciences
46:20 Lasting Influence on Star Trek
49:45 Current Projects & Appearances
55:00 Contact Information/Outro
Contact Dr. Erin MacDonald
Website: http://www.erinpmacdonald.com
Instagram: @drerinmac
Twitter: @drerinmac
Contact the Hosts
Jonathan - justadisneygeek on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, YouTube
Chris - @chrisstough1 or @PghTrekChat on Twitter, Pittsburgh's Trek Chat on YouTube Email chistopherstoughlsw@gmail.comConnect with Geek News Now
Twitter - @GNN_Home
Facebook - Geek News Now
Website - www.geeknewsnow.net
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Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/cllpodcast/message
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Transcript
Podcast Introduction
00:00:00
Speaker
Captain's logs. I'm Solo. I'm Captain and Millennium Falcon. This is Captain Jean-Luc Picard of the Federation starship Enterprise. I already have one message from Starfleet coming in on secured channel.
00:00:28
Speaker
You're listening to Captain's Logs and Lightsabers, part of the Geek News Now Podcast Network. Thank you for joining us for episode 10 of Captain's Logs and Lightsabers. We're the podcast on the Geek News Now Network that covers both Star Trek and Star Wars.
Hosts' Return with Special Guest
00:00:43
Speaker
We're back from our hiatus from the past several months with a very special treat for you. I'm one of your hosts, Jonathan, and with me as he is for every single episode, my co-host Chris.
00:00:54
Speaker
Hello, everybody. It's good to be back and I'm ready to introduce our guest to you here. We got quite a treat for you here today.
00:01:01
Speaker
Absolutely, so it has been far too long since we've been able to record an episode, but trust us when I say that this one is well worth the wait.
Meet Dr. Erin McDonald
00:01:10
Speaker
We have a special guest joining us today for a chat about her Star Wars and her Star Trek fandom, as well as her work on the Star Trek franchises. Our guest today received her undergraduate degree in Physics with Astrophysics and Mathematics from the University of Colorado at Boulder.
00:01:26
Speaker
She received her PhD in astrophysics from the University of Glasgow in Scotland, doing research into gravitational waves as a member of the LIGO scientific collaboration. Moving to Los Angeles, our incredible guest today began speaking at official Star Trek events such as Star Trek the Cruise and has worked as a science consultant for the entertainment industry.
00:01:49
Speaker
In 2019, she was hired as the official science consultant for the Star Trek universe and is currently working on all shows in development. Please welcome the tattooed Scottish American N7 Rebel from Starfleet Academy, Dr. Erin McDonald. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for having me. Maybe even happier that I've got both of the Rebel and the Starfleet in my name. Oh, that's awesome. It's got to both be there. Yes.
00:02:19
Speaker
Absolutely. So again, thank you so much for joining us. As we kind of start every episode when we talk to a guest, I want to know what was your first exposure to Star Trek?
Discovering Star Trek
00:02:30
Speaker
I didn't really discover Star Trek much until college. I like to kind of joke around that there's a big intersection in physics majors and Star Trek fans. And we had quite a few Star Trek fans among my colleagues when I was an undergraduate. And so our college parties mostly contained lots of episodes of Star Trek The Next Generation playing in the background.
00:02:54
Speaker
And so I would I would watch it and people would be like, oh my god, you've never seen this. We got to watch this episode type thing. And I did really enjoy it. I got it. And then finally, the 2009 Kelvin film actually came out the night we all graduated. So we made that part of our graduation. And that was the first time I was exposed to like
00:03:13
Speaker
Star Trek fandom. And I think that's what's really got me into it. Because I'm a big fan of stuff. I like the fandom world. But seeing these generations of diehard Trekkies, I was like, these are my people. How can I be a part of this? What do I need to do? And so I dove in head first. And only a couple of weeks after graduating, I went overseas to Scotland, as you mentioned, where I got my PhD.
00:03:43
Speaker
And I didn't know anyone so I watched a lot of Star Trek and actually ended up making a few friends because I was just so In-depth with it and a lot of my friends liked Star Trek So I like I said, I was a little bit later than I think a lot of people who are known for their Star Trek fandom But you know, I it's never too late to be a fan No, absolutely not. I you and I kind of share a similar origin story as it were with our Star Trek fandom I when you could only get the
00:04:13
Speaker
the various series on DVD. And when Netflix had really first started, I started ordering the DVDs by mail and going through four episodes at a time of the next generation Deep Space Nine and Voyager. You couldn't just pull it up on a streaming service back then.
00:04:33
Speaker
You have to time it perfectly so you cycle those DVDs through your inbox. Absolutely. I was fortunate enough to actually be a fan at the time when the episodes were first run when Next Generation Deep Space Nine and Voyager were going on when I was a teenager in the 90s. So now I get to revisit them and re-experience them on DVD kind of like now you guys are, re-learning them.
00:04:59
Speaker
Yeah, I can imagine Deep Space Nine is very different week to week because it's so bingeable. It should be very different to have to wait a week between episodes. It was killer sometimes, especially during the summers it was even worse between the cliffhangers. Those were hard. So let's kind of shift focus a little bit over to
Star Wars Early Exposure
00:05:24
Speaker
Star Wars. What was your first exposure to Star Wars?
00:05:27
Speaker
Now that one was a bit earlier. I wasn't really raised in a sci-fi household, but I did have family members who loved Star Wars. So I distinctly remember being sat down by my cousins during Thanksgiving and watching A New Hope. Like, so that was, I was probably, I don't know, six or seven years old. And I mean, who doesn't love it? I love, I love Princess Leia from like the minute she shows up.
00:05:53
Speaker
She was just that type of character that I was instantly attached to. And both my brother and I, I mean, we were right at that peak of like the late 90s, you know, Star Wars resurgence where the prequels were coming out and it was high merchandise. And so we were just all, all in. My little brother was like that perfect demographic for the Phantom Menace when that came out. And then I, you know, I just loved anything that had a Star Wars stamp on it, and I still do. I love Star Wars so, so much.
00:06:22
Speaker
And it's just been such like a staple through my life. It's almost hard to extricate myself from it because like everything around me is Star Wars based. I really love it. All right. Yeah. I mean, Star Trek and Star Wars are definitely something very special. So kind of kind of sticking with the theme of talking about both of them at the
Iconic Characters' Personal Impact
00:06:45
Speaker
same time. I'm very curious. So are there any specific characters that you most identify with one from each franchise?
00:06:52
Speaker
Yeah, so I think, well, I mentioned Princess Leia, like Star Wars when I was younger, and that has always been the case. I think, especially Princess Leia and General Organa, sort of as she evolved through the series, I have always been deeply attached to her. I think that just the way she's portrayed, even, you know, I would read the novel, novelizations that sort of came after, wait, this is way backwards, so these were like the original sort of Timothy Zahn novels and stuff.
00:07:19
Speaker
And I would read all of those and anything with Leia in them. So that's one I've just always been attached to. And again, it's almost hard to explain why because I feel like it was so early on when I loved her that I don't know what part of me was formed because of Leia versus which part of me just likes her. And so there's this interplay that I have with Leia that I just, yeah, she's
00:07:47
Speaker
She really means a lot to me. I actually have a tattoo of General Organa flipping off over her shoulder like Carrie Fisher used to do. And then the shadow of it is Leia from A New Hope. And I just, that's probably one of my favorite tattoos that I have, because I just love them so much. And I also, I think that extended a little bit. They're not totally intertwined, but I also was very attached to Carrie Fisher and just loved her memoirs and just her personality.
00:08:17
Speaker
really brought a lot of light to my life. And so I'm very attached to her as well. But with Star Trek, I would say, I mean, most definitely, and I think a lot of people who might know me from other stuff have heard this before, but Captain Janeway got me through so much. Like when I got to graduate school and I was by myself and I'm sort of going back through the Star Trek fandoms or going through the Star Trek series,
00:08:44
Speaker
and discovering them for the first time, now I can see kind of poetically why I was into it because I was lost in another country like 3000 miles away from anyone I knew. And I just was so attached to Voyager and particularly Captain Janeway. I think some of it was the fact that she had a science officer background.
00:09:05
Speaker
But just the way she held herself and the way she interacted with her crew, it was the type of leader that I wanted to be. And I definitely, I think more consciously than it is with my Leia, my love for Leia, I have more consciously decided to envelop parts of Captain Janeway's personality into my own, pretty much like a mentor, you know, like you would with any mentor that you see yourself in and you try to, you know,
00:09:30
Speaker
uh illuminate their characteristics so yeah you know strong strong women characters that i just really saw myself in i think those are so important now ones that i don't necessarily mirror myself i suppose we can just briefly uh i would say in star wars i love han solo who doesn't love han solo but i also get deep into the star wars
00:09:51
Speaker
like animated series and I'm watching Rebels right now and just Kanan and weirdly the droid AP-5 like I'm obsessed with. I love the characters in Rebels and Kanan and Hera are two of my favorite characters in that sort of extended world and the other sort of Star Trek one I would pull up is Spock. Like who doesn't love Spock?
00:10:15
Speaker
the best, and I love Leonard Nimoy. It's just so much. It's just so all great. It's just all great. And I can talk about this all day. Kerry Fisher is a national treasure that we just, I don't think we deserved her. And it's a shame that we lost her so soon. And as far as the droid characters in Rebels, just Star Wars in general, there are so many droid characters that we
00:10:44
Speaker
are just absolutely incredible. And every single droid that we spend any time with is so unique. I mean, and pretty much every single one of them is sassy. Yeah, that's true.
00:10:56
Speaker
Uh, uh, AP five just, just, uh, screams Alan Rickman to me. Alan was another, like my favorite, favorite actor. And so obviously I can't separate those two. And I know the voice actor for AP five said he was highly inspired by Alan Rickman, but he's just such a great character. He's such a dick like chopper to choppers, a horrible, like choppers, genuinely an awful character.
00:11:21
Speaker
He's so mean. I love it. It's great. But Chopper would absolutely not hesitate to sacrifice himself for the crew of the Ghost, which is
00:11:36
Speaker
He's sassy, he's a smart ass, but he's heroic at the same time. This is true. As long as there's not another droid that could be sacrificed, because he'll sacrifice that one first. Yes, yes. Absolutely.
Captain Janeway's Return
00:11:48
Speaker
And I think it's wonderful that Kate Mulgrew and Captain Janeway really inspired you to get into the sciences and that you related to the fact that Voyager was so far from home and while you were so far away from home as well.
00:12:01
Speaker
You've got to be beyond excited that Captain Janeway and Kate Mulgrew are coming back for Star Trek Prodigy.
00:12:09
Speaker
I just, oh, it felt good. Yeah, there's a little bit of a story behind that because I got Voyager. I have a full sleeve that I'm working on of spaceship tattoos. And I had just got Voyager on my forearm, I think like less than a month before I went and met with the prodigy team. And this was back when all we knew was there was a Nickelodeon series that was being developed for kids.
00:12:39
Speaker
And then I got, you know, I was already working on the franchise and they said, all right, you know, we're going to go, you're going to go to Nickelodeon, meet the showrunners, Dan and Kevin Hageman, and just get primed on the series and, you know, get rolled into them. So I was like, all right, awesome. I show up to Nickelodeon and the two brothers, Kevin and Dan, show up and they're like, so we hear you have a Voyager tattoo. And I'm like, yeah. They're like, you're going to want to sit down.
00:13:02
Speaker
Like and that's when they told me cable grew is coming My mind was blown and like and it was great because everyone in the room just had that energy like they were so excited about it kind of you know recently been finalized like they were super into it and
00:13:20
Speaker
And everyone was just thrilled to talk about it and really devoted to it. But I gotta say, as soon as I was driving home, I'd say that's kind of when it hit me. That not only was Captain Janeway just coming back, but that I would be able to help write lines for Captain Janeway. And I would be working on a series with Captain Janeway as a character.
00:13:41
Speaker
And so, yeah, I mean, it it means so much to me. And it's great to see people's reaction as stuff is unveiled. And I just can't wait for the world to see the show because I think it's really something special. Your enthusiasm is definitely catching. You're making me really excited, too. I love that feeling, that excitement that you got. Wonderful.
00:14:03
Speaker
Chris and I were talking a couple episodes back right after we had seen that first image of the characters from Prodigy and we were discussing about how the show really seems to have some Star Wars Rebels vibes to it. Do you get that as well?
00:14:20
Speaker
I like that. Yeah. And that's, that's what makes me so excited is like I said, I mean, I watch all that extended Star Wars content and I love animated content. I think it's not, it feels like it's for kids, but I feel like our society is like slowly accepting that it really is for the whole family. And I really think like it's great what Star Trek is doing with that.
00:14:39
Speaker
making so much content that can be accessible by so many people. And I would say, for sure, the similarities, just myself, narratively and the fact that I am a big fan of Rebels, but it just has that great line of being four kids, but also can really be enjoyed by everyone and just have this deep passion for the franchise and yet tell its own story. And that's what I think is so exciting about it. Yeah, absolutely.
Science in Star Wars vs. Star Trek
00:15:07
Speaker
I want to shift our focus a little bit now to talk a little bit more about your expertise in astrophysics. I know that you have that lecture series that's available on Audible, the science of sci-fi, and I know you had mentioned that
00:15:25
Speaker
if Starkiller Base in The Force Awakens really were using stellar matter to power its super weapon, that it would be able to destroy far more than just a couple planets.
00:15:40
Speaker
I kind of want to ask, is there anything in Star Wars films or any of the shows that we've seen so far that has a little bit more of a realistic basis in either astrophysics or other fields of science? Yeah, totally. And the great origin with that calculation is I can't take full credit for that. That was also Stephen Grenade. And I did this for a DragonCon panel that we run that was called Star Trek versus Star Wars Science.
00:16:06
Speaker
And we would just be a few scientists who would sort of fight about the physics and biology in both of them and throw down. And it was really, really fun. We liked a joke that was like, two battlets, two lightsabers, and no one leaves because none of that's real. But anyway, the Starkiller based one was really funny just doing that calculation. I would say, though, what I really like about Star Wars that I think is overlooked that
00:16:31
Speaker
When you dig into the technology behind their hyper drives and they're faster than light travel, it's pretty sound and it's not as conceptualized, like fully thought out as warp drivers and Star Trek.
00:16:46
Speaker
But this idea of a hyperdrive, and they talk about them using super luminous particles as sort of the techno-babble that they use, that means faster than light particles, which are tachyons, which we see in Star Trek all the time. But Star Wars uses them to essentially like
00:17:03
Speaker
Build a wormhole as you're traveling through it so it's like you build a tunnel through space time as you are traveling through it and then when you come out of hyperspace like you've closed the wormhole and it closes behind you and there are areas where you know parts of space-time are closer to each other so people commonly will build hyper light drives or a hyper light
00:17:26
Speaker
roads, essentially. And so the technology of hyper travel in Star Wars is actually pretty good. Lightsabers always make me laugh because we're not far off from them. And I think a lot of people have gone into physics because they want to invent a lightsaber and we all want to have one. But then you look at how much radiation and energy would be required and you would not want it hanging on your hip.
00:17:51
Speaker
There's like precious cargo in that area of you as a human being that you not want to expose to that much radiation. But the idea of a lightsaber, I feel like we can still work towards that. That's not totally unfeasible.
00:18:06
Speaker
That would be wonderful to see one of those one day. So going into Star Trek and its technology, so Discovery introduced the Mycelial network for ships to jump from one point to another point very quickly. How much of this concept is based on current scientific theory?
00:18:25
Speaker
Yeah, that's an interesting one. So I have to clarify, I did not work on Discovery for season one or two when this concept was first introduced, but it really was born out of this Ted Talk that a guy named Paul Stamets gave, which then, of course, they named the character after him, that talked about that we have a mycelial network, which really is a historical thread of spores that have been sent throughout our universe over time, that there's these extraterrestrial spores that we get.
00:18:55
Speaker
the science of that is a little bit iffy, you know, just because it is difficult for things to live in space. And but what I like to think about it is it's not so much like a literal network of spores. But when we talk about subspace in Star Trek, that's like this area that's outside of our universe. If you think about it like a trampoline, subspace would be that area above and below the sheet. And if you think about this, like
00:19:22
Speaker
web of threads that are like threaded throughout the trampoline, but not part of the trampoline itself. Like you imagine like sewing sort of glittery threads throughout a trampoline. They still are technically separate from it, even though they're still embedded throughout it. Um, really that's like this analogy for the spore network. And then the drive is what's able to access it and then travel along those threads themselves, not the usual trampoline.
00:19:50
Speaker
So when you think about it more allegorical and conceptually, it's not too bad as far as science fiction concepts of faster than light travel go. And it really focuses on being more than a warp drive, which uses that trampoline. It uses space time itself.
00:20:09
Speaker
This more takes you out of it and then quickly jumps you to a different position. But yeah, the origin of the spore drive kind of came from this idea that the scientist Paul Stamets had that inspired the writers to kind of take that there. And now the way I kind of see it and treat it as more allegorical to a different way you could think of a part of space that we don't know or understand, or it lives a little bit outside of our own universe.
00:20:34
Speaker
Very fascinating. Thank you for sharing that. That's interesting, the way you think of that and conceptualize it. Thank you. I have to spend a lot of time thinking about it. That's okay. That's the fun thing about Star Trek is you're always finding out new things and different ways to look at things. So that's wonderful.
00:20:53
Speaker
Well, thank you. And I think what's really, you know, it's important to note is that it's not just the fans who really love the science, but the people who work on the franchise understand the legacy that Star Trek has on science and wants to uphold that and embed science throughout the storytelling. Right. Absolutely. Absolutely. Is there any likelihood of having a functional warp engine by first contact day, April 5th, 2063?
00:21:17
Speaker
Oh my god that date is creeping up so fast. I know it is scary. It's like not okay. But yes, a mere 40 plus years in the future we should technically have warp engines. Um, I would say at the rate of technological advancement that we have.
00:21:33
Speaker
Warp drive would be hard to achieve by then. But you never know when there's a big leap forward in a new discovery that can lead us to new things that could get us to warp drive. So there's kind of two major components. One is an understanding of space time and how to play with it and how we can play with it. Another concept that's required for warp drive is energy.
00:21:59
Speaker
So with the discovery of gravitational waves, which is a little bit self-serving because that's what I did my PhD in, but we were able to detect the motion of space time itself. And the way warp drive functions is saying that nothing on the surface of space time can go faster than the speed of light.
00:22:16
Speaker
But space time itself could go faster than the speed of light. So if you could build a bubble of space time around your ship, that could propel you faster than the speed of light. And in order to do that, you would need a lot of energy and a good understanding of how space time works. Now, we're starting to learn a lot more about space time through this detection of ripples of space time itself in gravitational waves.
00:22:42
Speaker
And so the next thing is to figure out how to play with it. But if we want to bend space-time, you either need mass like a planet or a star, or you need an equivalent amount of energy thanks to E equals mc squared, this energy mass equivalence. Now, the original calculations to figure out how work drive would work said that you would need all the energy in the universe, literally all the energy, which is not ideal.
00:23:12
Speaker
We then kind of, people have gone back and revisited sort of the different topologies and the literal geometries of a work bubble. And the last time I saw was a few years ago, someone had kind of got that energy equivalent down to a semi truck. Like if you took a semi truck the size of that,
00:23:28
Speaker
and broke all that matter down to its energy, you could build a warp bubble out of that. Which doesn't sound too bad, except when you think that the hydrogen bomb is the energy equivalent of a teaspoon of matter being converted into energy. So like I like to joke, that's why Zefram Cochran drinks.
00:23:47
Speaker
I'm not strapping myself to that anytime soon. But that's really our limiter right now is being able to harness and control that much energy is really what we need to overcome to reach work capabilities.
00:24:03
Speaker
So if we if we make that discovery, then that becomes a lot closer. But where we are now, like, unfortunately, I think April 5th, 2063 is going to be a lot of sad nerds hanging around right about that. Dark day.
00:24:25
Speaker
We can hope and dream and just let science take its course and hope that you continue to do your research and more like-minded fans also join the cause.
00:24:40
Speaker
Right. Right. And I mean, who knows? We could have prodigy, Star Trek prodigy is going to air. It's going to inspire little Zefram Cochran, who was born like four years ago to figure out how warp drive works. It all comes full circle. So how did your love of Star Trek lead to becoming the science advisor for the franchise?
From Academia to Science Advisor
00:25:04
Speaker
Yeah, there's a whole bunch of that story that haven't really got into. When I left academia, one of the things that I really struggled with was the idea that I wouldn't be teaching anymore because I really genuinely love teaching and I love mentoring kids.
00:25:22
Speaker
And just being in front of a classroom is something I love so much. And so I was trying to find alternatives to be able to do that while I went into other fields. And one of the things I started doing was giving talks at sci-fi conventions. I mentioned DragonCon. That was one of the first ones I started giving talks at.
00:25:41
Speaker
And I branched out from sort of the hard science talks to be more fandom focused. One of the first ones that I gave a science talk with, my friend Eric Spana, was the science of mass effect. And we gave this talk on the biology and the physics in mass effect, and it was hugely popular. So we started taking it around the country to other conventions.
00:26:03
Speaker
And it was just really, really well received. So I started finding other fandoms and other science fiction that I could use that sci-fi to teach science with, even if it was like, hey, this is why almost everything in Star Wars is wrong. Like there's a science reason behind that and we can still learn some science that way. And it's really effective and it's fun for me. And so when I, so I started giving these and it was a good sort of seven years of going around the country and giving all these talks.
00:26:33
Speaker
And then, as you mentioned, I have great courses on the science of sci-fi, which is really a compendium of all of these talks that I've given. And when I moved out to Los Angeles, I was able to meet some people who work on Star Trek, and they were interested in me giving these talks to their official events. So I went to Star Trek Las Vegas, was the first one that I went to, and gave a Physics of Star Trek talk, which was very well received, if I say so myself.
00:26:58
Speaker
and CBS noticed that and they had me go on the Star Trek cruise and then I went back to Vegas and I went on the cruise again but all throughout that they realized that because they have so many shows in development and they used to have science advisors in the 90s
00:27:12
Speaker
They thought that that would be a good role for me to have as well, that I could work both fan facing and behind the scenes and be available to the shows, however much they want to use me. All the shows have a very different feel. They all have different show runners. Yes, they're all Star Trek, but they're designed to be different shows. And so however much or little they want to use me as a science advisor, I'm just available to them.
00:27:36
Speaker
And it's a dream job. I mean, it's awesome. But it was a lot of hard work. And I had done a little bit of consulting in Hollywood, working on some other shows, working with science fiction novelists. And the biggest lesson I learned was to yes and the process. If anyone's taken improv, you learn about yes and, and how to build on other people's ideas and not stomp them down.
00:28:01
Speaker
And so that was a big focus for me in science advising is that I wanted to build on, I didn't want to be a negative presence in the room, which a lot of science advisors sometimes can be. And so when they come to me with an idea, my job is not to say science says no, my job is to say like, okay, that's a great idea.
00:28:18
Speaker
Let's figure out how to make that work and to say things in the way that would be scientifically accurate or decide not to say anything at all. Let's just not explain it and let it happen. And that's totally fine. And I think being that sort of positive presence has really helped me grow and help me continue my role in the Star Trek franchise, but in Hollywood, you know, broadly that people like having me in rooms, which is really fun.
00:28:47
Speaker
Well, Chris and I are both from the greater Pittsburgh area and we would love to have you at one of our local cons. That would be a blast. Yes, I would love that. Let them know.
00:28:59
Speaker
I will. I actually just joined the Steel City Con forum on Facebook, so I will definitely pass the word along. This is where it started. Yes, exactly. I love it. That's great. I will say, conventions are a blast, and I still really love doing them, but it was so funny, because this is pertinent to the theme of this podcast in particular, when I was going to start
00:29:22
Speaker
Check Las Vegas, I was so nervous because I'd never been to like a fandom specific con before. And I just thought I was going to be like gate keep out of the room like you're not real. You don't know what like episode three of season four said this. And I was just stressing I had stress drinks for weeks. But the most stressful thing about it was that the only luggage I own is Star Wars luggage.
00:29:49
Speaker
To Star Trek Las Vegas as a guest with Star Wars luggage and be like shunned from the room Thankfully as I learned which shouldn't be much of a surprise but it was to me who was very stressed out about this There's a lot of Star Trek fans who are also Star Wars fans and the luggage was a hit and no one made me take my toys and leave That's wonderful. It was a good story in the end, but very stressful going into it
00:30:19
Speaker
Okay, so another question for you would be, so are there specific episodes of Discovery or any of the other shows that most closely reflect or were influenced by your specific scientific area of study?
00:30:35
Speaker
Um, a couple, you know, I was really brought in first for season three of Discovery specifically. They had the big sort of season arc of The Burn that they had already established what that story would be, but then they needed some science background for it. So I was able to apply
00:30:54
Speaker
Not so much my specific area of expertise, but digging into physics broadly and talking about how particles work. I got to write a lot of Dilithium Canon, which was really fun. To watch 1966 episodes now and be like, hey, I've added to this.
00:31:10
Speaker
But one episode in particular was episode five of season three. They encounter a siege ship that was hit by a coronal mass ejection. And that was something that I got to help out with a lot, sort of helping them come up with what the disaster would be. And a coronal mass ejection, as Jeff Reno in the episode says, is essentially a star burp that you get a star that like lets go of a lot of this gas and it can be very ionized. It can be very dangerous. And in this episode, it had basically like
00:31:40
Speaker
wiped out the space station. It just fried all the electronics and made it uninhabitable. So I was able to help a lot with that. And it was actually like the first time they've had specifically a coronal mass ejection in Star Trek, which made me really, really happy and excited to do that. But it wasn't just the science of that. It was also like the scientific process. So one of the things that they asked me was,
00:32:03
Speaker
All right, not only do we want to include the science of a coronal mass ejection, but like how would our crew figure out that that's what it was? And what would the scientific process be? What data would you want as an astronomer to be able to narrow down the options and specifically say it's a coronal mass ejection? So a lot of like
00:32:24
Speaker
that Tilly's problem solving in that episode was very much like born out of us talking about like how scientists problem solve and what kind of data we need and what epiphany will sort of lead us down the correct answer. So it was really kind of fun contributing that aspect as well as the science behind it.
00:32:44
Speaker
That's fascinating. And this may be tangentially related to that last question, but were there ever any scripts that you were brought in to tweak the science on to make sure that everything was in line with current scientific principles or rather extrapolated into the 29th century?
00:33:07
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it's a lot of what I do now. Once I sort of did those very specific things for season three, once I was brought in to be the Science Advisor for the franchise, that's when I started getting scripts for all the ships. And I would get the scripts and have to read them, just what was written, already published, like, you know, going to be filmed.
00:33:26
Speaker
and review the dialogue so that's the bulk of my job is getting scripts in my inbox that i then read and you know i'm usually going through probably one to two hundred pages of scripts a day now that said a lot are like revisions on stuff that's already been written so it's not as steady as it sounds but it can sometimes be a lot.
00:33:46
Speaker
But yeah there's certainly been things come up where it's just saying like okay instead of saying like we're gonna be stuck on the gravity while you wanna say we're gonna be stuck in the gravity well switch little vernacular tweaks to say this is how we talk about it in science on things also like you know.
00:34:04
Speaker
writing equations like what order do you write stuff in all of those little things making sure that that's all accurate as well so yeah there's there's a big aspect to it i also for some of the shows help in the post-production so when they're doing the graphics aspect of episodes they'll run stuff past me and this is kind of after i've been embedded for a while so they they trust me and i'm not gonna yell at them and not make people feel sad or dumb
00:34:28
Speaker
Um, but they'll start sending me, you know, images of the planets that they're, they're building and, and make sure that nothing. And that makes my science brain angry. So I'll help them. But like I said, though, for the most part, like there's a lot of science fans and professional, you know, former scientists on these writing staff.
00:34:48
Speaker
they've already got a good leg up and sometimes I send notes and I'm like do you guys even need me like this was brilliant and people are going to give me credit for this and I don't deserve credit because you guys came up with all of this so you know the writers are really really good and it's a lot of fun.
00:35:04
Speaker
Well, that's wonderful. Thank you for sharing that. So I know we've already talked about this already to some degree, but you credit Catherine Janeway as an inspiration for entering into the sciences. Would you be able to tell us specifically how Captain Janeway influenced that decision?
00:35:21
Speaker
Yeah, because I had already kind of started my PhD when I discovered Captain Janeway, I had already decided that I loved studying space. And I loved the research side of that. So I did want to continue that. But I would say where Janeway really, really influenced me
00:35:40
Speaker
was as a mentor. I didn't have a lot of women in my field that I saw myself as. And when I see Captain Janeway on the screen, like I really resonate just with her presence and how she carries herself. But it's even down to the really dumb stuff. Like if I was on a starship, especially if I was a captain and couldn't have a romantic relationship with anyone, I would 10 out of 10.
00:36:04
Speaker
have Jane Austen style like holodeck programs and basically play out Jane Eyre and try to hook up with an Irish bartender. Like all these little things about Janeway's personality. I'm like, yes, I get that's me. And so I just I really love the character. I just think she's amazing. And but
00:36:33
Speaker
The episodes where you get to see her be a scientist and there's a few that stand out to me. One is like the first couple episodes where they're deciding about like the chief engineer and they have this problem with the ship. The ship's kind of stuck in this time anomaly or space time anomaly.
00:36:50
Speaker
and her and Balana start sciencing it. And they're just very naturally geeky scientists. I would say that episode in particular, which again is like episode two or three, depending how you count the pilot, I was like, oh my God, like that's me. That's how I and my friends science things. And we get excited about that. That's the moment where they like go, you know, warp particles.
00:37:17
Speaker
I get that. I just feel it in my bones. And so, yeah, that's that's the aspect of Janeway that I personally really, really identify with. But I understand like not everyone has that. Yeah, she's the captain of this specific series. And so I'm particularly drawn to that. But it really is her personality. And thankfully, Star Trek has provided us so many great characters and so much representation throughout the years.
00:37:41
Speaker
and continue to provide great representation for demographics that are normally not seen on screen, that more people can start to see themselves in these characters. I'm just lucky that I have Captain Janeway, because I really identify with her. There was a funny story about that, because when I got hired by Star Trek, my parents were like, well, I suppose we should watch some Star Trek now.
00:38:05
Speaker
Can you give us some episodes to watch? I was like, boy, howdy, could I give you some episodes to watch? And so I sent them my favorite ones from each series. And I sent them some of my favorite Janeway episodes. And I just got a text from my mom in the middle of the night because I was working. At the same time, I was kind of working as a manager in engineering. And my mom would always joke just because I'm heavily tattooed. I'm a big dork. I'm really informal with people. She's like, I can't see you in a pantsuit yelling at people.
00:38:34
Speaker
And then I get a text from her in the middle of the night and she's like, I just watched Captain Janeway. I think I get you now.
00:38:42
Speaker
Oh, that's wonderful. You know, and so just so much and it's like Leah, like a lot of it is I don't know how much I've incorporated subconsciously into my personality. But I really see Janeway as a mentor and especially as a leader, I did model a lot of how I would like to be a leader off the way she, you know, leads and interacts with her crew, I think is really admirable and something that I viscerally feel as well.
00:39:07
Speaker
Sure. Well, that's wonderful. You know, as a side note, you said that you've gone to Star Trek Las Vegas. I've been to three of those conventions myself. They're wonderful. And I know Kate Mulgrew tends to go to those conventions. Have you ever been able to catch up with her, meet with her and tell her how much her character inspired you?
00:39:26
Speaker
Yeah, I do have a story about that. Yes. So when I finished my PhD in your dissertation, typically you have an acknowledgement section where you thank people that kind of got you through it. And the last person in my acknowledgments, it's one of those last but not least highlights, I say to Captain Catherine Janeway, she'll never know how much she helped me through this PhD.
00:39:50
Speaker
And so that's published in my dissertation. And at a convention I was at, it wasn't Star Trek Las Vegas, but I think it was Denver Comic Con. I was a guest. I was a legitimate guest and I was giving a talk. This was a few years later. And Kate Mulgrew was also going to be there. And this was the first convention that we were both going to be at. And I was like, oh my God, this is happening.
00:40:11
Speaker
I have to and so I brought my whole dissertation carried it with me through this whole convention and Thankfully my talks did not overlap with her signing Times and I was able to just like stand in the line with everyone else
00:40:27
Speaker
go up and I just like laid my thesis in front of her. And I was like, I just was wondering if you could sign my PhD dissertation and like, cause this is my acknowledgement. And she was, I was really stunned because she does carry a presence with her. Like I would say Kate Mulgrew kind of even has more of, it's not intimidating, but it's just an aura around her than even Janeway does. So it's like, there's just this thing about her
00:40:56
Speaker
probably all in my own head but I just like freak out and I just get starstruck and I get I lose words and then of course she saw that and she lost her words so we just sat there silently and she was like oh my god and I'm like oh my god she's like oh my god
00:41:18
Speaker
Neither of us knew what to say. And so she did write something very kind in there for me and just took that time and shook my hand. And I told her, I said, you're going to see me again, because I was able to get a photo op with you as well.
00:41:32
Speaker
And I'm looking forward to that, too. And she said, OK, good. I'm looking forward to seeing you, too. And so then like later in the day, I did those photo ops. And if anyone's ever done those, I mean, that that's even more like a pass through. Like you're. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like there's you get maybe two seconds with them. It's like in picture in picture. And I go in there and she recognized me and she just kind of like put her arm around me. We took the picture and then she just stopped.
00:41:58
Speaker
She just said, I want you to know that I'm really proud of you and I'm excited to see what happens in your future. Oh my gosh.
00:42:07
Speaker
What a memory. So then, you know, I left and sat and cried in the corridor for about half an hour. But it was fine. We were all fine. Oh. Yeah. So thankfully I've had that. And then, of course, that was like a couple of years before I started working for Star Trek. I haven't had a chance to kind of cross paths with her informally pretty quickly. But she's always been very kind and it's always been nice to chat with her a little bit. And it's always just kind of been small talk of catching up on things.
00:42:34
Speaker
which, of course, I'm like immensely grateful for. But again, I'm still like she's one of the few people legitimately still intimidated. Sure. It's frickin captain. Absolutely. Thank you so much for sharing that story. It's such an intimate experience that you had with her. So thank you very much for sharing that with all of us. Absolutely. I might actually I might be tearing up a little bit here because that is just amazing. I that that memory is is is wonderful. And that's something you'll be able to cherish forever.
00:43:04
Speaker
Thank you. Yeah, it means a lot. And I think what's so great is a lot of the Star Trek actors really recognize that. Like they really do understand how much people love their franchise and how much they are attached to their characters and how much it's shaped their lives. And so when you see these actors take the time to go to conventions and talk with fans and get to know people, it's really just wonderful. I still, I just love going to conventions for those moments.
00:43:33
Speaker
Yeah. So on a related question, you know, of course, by the 23rd century, you know, we've solved a lot of the social issues that are plaguing us today.
Advice for Women in Science
00:43:46
Speaker
So what advice would you like to offer to any women who are considering a career in the sciences?
00:43:53
Speaker
there's so much advice I could give just to anyone really because I think it's really hard but the most important thing is really to be true to yourself and not feel obligated to anyone else. You know my biggest thing is that I've been able to get where I am because I felt comfortable and supported in
00:44:12
Speaker
changing my mind and changing careers and continuing to pivot and pursue things that I love. And that's what's led me to where I am. And there were so many times where I could have stayed in academia because I felt an obligation both to my past self, to my professors, to like future generations to stay in it, but just recognizing that that wasn't a future that I did enjoy and trying to figure out my own path from that.
00:44:42
Speaker
is what led me to here. And so I really think it's so important as you go into science is to not let anyone deter you, but don't ever feel obligated to someone. I think too, especially in the corporate world, but also in academia, it's so important to remember that if you leave, you'll be replaced.
00:45:02
Speaker
There will be a job at out for your position within a week and they will find someone to do your job. You do not need to, you know, destroy yourself for a job that you're unhappy in. Now, I say that all with a place of privilege that I am grateful that I've had.
00:45:19
Speaker
been able to pivot and make these decisions and some have been easy and some have been very difficult. But just recognizing that if you are in a place where you can pivot and change your future, if you're not happy, just don't be obligated to anyone else. And I think that's applicable to everyone in every position that you're in. But particularly if you're in a field where you don't, you are not normally represented, there's a big pressure to stay in it, to fight the fight for people.
00:45:48
Speaker
And it's like the biggest epiphany I had was like, oh my God, I could be a mentor in a different way, in a different field. And I'm still a scientist and I still have this experience, but now I'm in Hollywood helping write characters that could influence future scientists. So I'm still a mentor in a way that I didn't necessarily see or think that I could be. And just that pressure is sometimes really, really hard to fight against when you discover for yourself that it's not for you.
00:46:18
Speaker
All right. So what do you hope will be your lasting influence on the Star Trek universe going forward? Oh, that's such a big question. I mean, I know the little things are the things that both keep me up at night, but also make me really happy. Things like being able to add to dilithium cannon like just makes me so happy. But I think being able to
00:46:46
Speaker
have a major influence on a character that does inspire future generations really would just be a brilliant legacy to have particularly if it's in Star Trek you know that uh that we have shows now that are being written for kids but we also have shows that are continuing on with beloved characters you know we have not just Janeway and Prodigy but you know Strange New Worlds was announced and we've got
00:47:11
Speaker
you know Spock and and Pike just want to combine their names now because I'm like Spike we've got Spike. You know what I meant um but these like legacy characters and just being able to add to that legacy and and
00:47:30
Speaker
and get to play a tiny role in just having this franchise continue to survive and continue to change lives, which it has done and will continue to do for years. It's such an honor. And I say this with all the privilege in the world, it's also very stressful.
00:47:50
Speaker
I can imagine. So many times where I'm like, oh my God, I hope they like it. I hope I don't get too many mean comments. Like at least as long as I can stand by what I'm, and I, the thing is too is to remember, it's like, I'm not a showrunner. I'm not even a writer on one of these shows. Like I have such a small part to play in it, but it does still feel sometimes like, you know, you do feel that weight of being part of such a legacy of a franchise.
00:48:20
Speaker
that you're just like, oh my God, don't let me screw this up. Oh man, that's, I can only imagine what has to be going through your head on an almost daily basis. Just recognizing that you're part of this has got to be equal parts, exciting and stressful.
00:48:49
Speaker
I will say my partner is very good at checking me when I do start to complain. When I get overwhelmed of getting a dozen scripts that I have to get through and just put aside everything else and do that all day, he's like, people would kill for your inbox right now. You just need to think about that for a second. I'm like, yeah, I know. OK, I'll go for you. Thanks.
00:49:15
Speaker
And as a fan who grew up in the Buffy the Vampire Slayer era, turmoil with all the behind the scenes stuff aside, I am going to start shipping Spike now. Valid. You are not the only one and it's going to be known as Spike now forever. Hashtag Spike. Let's get it caught on. Spike and Hawk, we got this. Hawk.
00:49:45
Speaker
Oh, so we know you outside of the Star Trek universe, you've had a very wonderful career. And that continues up to this point. So what are some of your current projects in development outside of your work in the Star Trek universe? Oh, yeah, you know, thanks for asking. I think
00:50:04
Speaker
It's been a long road. Not that you're worm everyone on this, but... You're like... I'm so sorry. What's been really interesting is that I went from academia to education, doing more sort of public education. I've done aerospace engineering. I have now worked as a science advisor. And for such a long time,
00:50:33
Speaker
sort of being a science communicator and being a science advisor in Hollywood was the dream job.
00:50:39
Speaker
that I was like, okay, that's what I want to do, and that's what I want to be. And then getting this Star Trek position, I was definitely hit with that feeling of like, oh my God, like, what do I do next? This is like literally the perp, like the dream science advisor job is to be a science advisor for Star Trek. And so what do I do after that? And I was so grateful to sort of get some indirect mentorship by being on a panel with Andre Bermanis and Narain Shakhar,
00:51:07
Speaker
who were the science advisors I mentioned earlier, who were science advisors in the 90s. And they both got their careers in entertainment started by being science advisors for Star Trek. And so hearing from them and hearing their journey and where they are now, and in case you don't recognize those names, Andre Bermanis is an executive producer on Cosmos. He's an executive producer on The Orville. And then Arrange the Car is the showrunner for The Expanse.
00:51:34
Speaker
And they both got their start as science advisors for Star Trek. And so hearing from them and trying to figure out what I want to do, but also being I would I would credit specifically prodigy with this epiphany for myself was finding a love for writing creatively.
00:51:54
Speaker
and realizing that I have a voice of all of these careers I have. Those have all informed my own stories and then stories that I want to share with future generations. And so now I've been making a pivot into screenwriting and writing my own pilots and trying to get staffed on TV shows because I think I do have a voice and I've been able to find that in the last year and a half.
00:52:15
Speaker
and particularly to share stories with kids that have layers of STEM in them that I can, again, kind of mentor and create future little budding scientists. I just really, really love that. But this past year, while we were all sort of dealing with everything that was going on,
00:52:38
Speaker
I was able to do a lot of streaming on Twitch. I was able to do a lot of science communication and streaming that way. So I did a YouTube channel. I had one for a long time. I have this show called Dr. Aaron Explains the Universe, where I get into the science of science fiction. And I sort of resurrected that and ran that on my Twitch channel throughout the year. But that's been sort of winding down a little bit as I really try to pivot hard into screenwriting.
00:53:04
Speaker
So I'm really excited where that goes. And I'm really grateful for hearing from Narain and Andre and where their careers went that I'm excited to see what comes up in the future. Excellent. Excellent.
00:53:17
Speaker
Now, I know conventions are starting to make a comeback. Do you have any upcoming appearances at any conventions throughout the US? Yes. Pending any unforeseen changes because things are changing every day. I am planning on being at DragonCon in Atlanta, Georgia over Labor Day weekend. That's always a fun one. That's one that I just love and I really, really missed last year. And then I will also be on the next Star Trek cruise.
00:53:45
Speaker
Oh, nice. So the Star Trek cruise in 2020 was literally the last thing I did before quarantine. I got off a cruise ship in March 2020. Thankfully, I got off the cruise ship and I will be headed back on one next March, March 2022. So that one's going to be really fun. I believe it's all sold out, but there is a wait list for it and the cruise is just a unique experience. I would highly recommend for any Star Trek fans out there.
00:54:12
Speaker
I am such a cruise junkie. I've been on nine of them myself, including two Star Wars Day at Sea cruises on Disney Cruise Line. Awesome. I would love to be on Star Trek The Cruise, so I hope our paths cross in person at some point. That would be a delight. I hold an excellent whiskey tasting on the cruise. You're speaking my language.
00:54:37
Speaker
And like I said, I'm going to email Steel City Con after our meeting here and tell them that you're very much interested. Steel City Con happens three times a year here in the Pittsburgh area. We actually have another one coming up on, I believe it's August 13th, 14th and 15th. And then there was one in mid-December. So I will definitely spread the word. We would love to meet you. Awesome. Thank you so much. You're welcome.
00:55:04
Speaker
Absolutely. And lastly, let's wrap up and Dr. McDonald, if you could let everyone know where they can reach out to you if they want to find out more about your work or just continue this conversation.
00:55:18
Speaker
Yeah, I can be found on Twitter at Dr. Aaron Mack, mostly when I'm supposed to be writing and reading scripts. It's D-R-E-R-I-N-M-A-C on Twitter. Feel free to find me and chat with me on there. Follow me for all the fun science fiction, Star Trek, and science things you could ever want inserted in your brain. And a little bit of really nerdy fan fiction, but that's funny. We already wrote some on this podcast, so we're good.
00:55:46
Speaker
Hashtag spike. Hashtag fuck. I can be reached at Just a Disney Geek on pretty much every social network out there. Jonathan Heil on Facebook as well. Chris, where can anybody reach out to you? Oh, people can just type in my name on Facebook, Christopher Stahl, S-T-O-U-G-H, and then they can find me on Twitter at ChrisStahl1. All right.
00:56:14
Speaker
Uh, we want to take this time again to thank with utmost gratitude. Thank Dr. Aaron McDonald for coming on our show. Uh, we had a blast, I think, and I hope our listeners will enjoy our discussion and the tangents and the rabbit holes that we went down. Yes. It was a pleasure getting to speak with you and pick your brain about Star Trek and learn a little bit about science from you. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you guys so much. Really appreciate it. Live long and prosper and may the force be with you.
00:56:44
Speaker
Same to you. Godspeed, Rebels.