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CLL#22 - Animation Domination
107 Plays2 years ago
On this animation-focused episode of Captains’ Logs and Lightsabers Podcast, Chris and Jonathan discuss The Bad Batch season 2, episodes 1-3 and the final four episodes of the first season of Star Trek Prodigy. No news this episode, just How Did You Geek This Week and straight into discussing the two shows. FULL SPOILERS for Bad Batch S2 and Prodigy S1 finale!
0:00 Introduction & Catch Up
3:50 HDYGTW
6:40 Feature Discussion Intro
7:40 The Bad Batch S2E1
14:45 Bad Batch S2E2
21:30 The Bad Batch S2E3
29:40 Star Trek Prodigy Final Episodes
38:00 Prodigy S1E18
42:00 Prodigy Two-Part Finale
55:00 Random Bits of Discussion
59:00 Outro
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
Captain's logs. I'm Solo. I'm Captain and Millennium Falcon. This is Captain Jean-Luc Picard of the Federation starship Enterprise. I already have one message from Starfleet coming in on secured channel.
Hosts Introduce Themselves and Discuss Geeky Activities
00:00:28
Speaker
You're listening to Captain's Logs and Lightsabers, part of the Geek News Now Podcast Network. Hey, welcome to Captain's Logs and Lightsabers. This is the podcast on the Geek News Now Network that talks about both Star Wars and Star Trek in the same podcast. My name is Jonathan, and as he is for every episode, I'm joined by my co-host, Chris Stau. How are you doing, buddy?
00:00:56
Speaker
I'm good there, Jonathan. How are you doing today? I'm good, man. It's we have a lot of animation to talk about today. So I mean, that's one of my favorite ways to enjoy Trek and Wars now. And I didn't even think that I was going to enjoy Star Trek in animated form. But
00:01:16
Speaker
Uh, both, both prodigy and lower decks have consistently proved me wrong. So, sure. Absolutely. Yeah. So I'm looking forward to talking a little bit about some of our, uh, favorite cartoons here that are, you know, kind of basically made for adults. Now it seems like even though they're kind of geared, they're written as geared for kids to some degree.
00:01:36
Speaker
Yep, but that's the beauty of animation is there's something for everybody to enjoy, whether you're an adult or a child. You got it, you got it. Anything exciting happening in your life this week?
Star Wars and Star Trek Merchandise Talk
00:01:48
Speaker
absolutely nothing except for one tiny little thing. So for Christmas, I got my very first Amazon gift card and somebody gave me $100 on it, which really surprised me. So I decided to go on Amazon and see if they had any special Star Trek stuff. And there was a watch that I've seen advertised for a long time. It has
00:02:10
Speaker
One of the, our hand actually is the, the star symbol that's inside the Starfleet Delta. And then they have the enterprise going around in a circle, ticking around with like streaks coming out of the engines. And then it has the science symbol on the minute hand. So I managed to get it for 45 bucks and I just got it two days ago. Very nice. That's about it. How about you?
00:02:35
Speaker
I mean not too much, but it's funny that you mentioned you got a watch because I got a late arrival Christmas present from Kylie I got she got me an Invicta watch that has Grogu and Mando's helmet on on the face And it's it's just it's a really big thick watch But it's really nice like I want to say it was originally $600 and she said she got it for 60 or 70
00:03:05
Speaker
Wow. Man, that was a good deal. Yeah, she couldn't pass that up.
00:03:11
Speaker
There you go. There you go. That's perfect. You know, I got to see a picture where you got to send me one. My Facebook page. So yeah. Yeah. I'll definitely send you a picture sometime. Right. Cool. Oh, I guess the other thing I got was Christmas clearance at Walmart. I managed to get for 75% off a Grogu Chia pet. I got it for $4.99. Nice. Nice. Have you have you cracked that open yet and started growing it? Not yet. But I'm going to here shortly. Probably this weekend.
00:03:40
Speaker
Nice, nice. All right, so on that note, that's kind of our catch up moment.
Weekly Geek Activities
00:03:46
Speaker
But I want to shift focus to the way we kind of start every show. And that's with how did you geek this week? So, Chris, why don't you tell me what happened in your life on a on a geeky spectrum?
00:04:02
Speaker
on a geeky spectrum, you'd be surprised. Absolutely nothing. Absolutely nothing. Just finally catching up on prodigy and checking in on the bad batch. That's about it. And then I watched, rewatched a little bit of the last three episodes of clone war season seven, just for the heck of it. But that's really about it.
00:04:20
Speaker
Nice, nice. Hey, you know, sometimes, sometimes you just got to stick to what you know, right? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. You know, so how did you geek this week?
Geek News Now Gaming Team
00:04:30
Speaker
Well, I do actually have something to share. That's kind of unique and kind of it. It started a little while back, like a few weeks ago, but
00:04:40
Speaker
you know, we haven't really recorded and had a chance to talk about it, but the network that hosts our podcast, Geek News Now, you know, they're a multimedia operation, you know, fueled by the fans. It's all fan-written, fan-driven content. You know, we have our YouTube channel, we have the website, we have Facebook pages and groups, but we recently relaunched the GNN gaming team.
00:05:05
Speaker
kind of gnn gaming team 2.0 there are multiple gamers each of them have their own twitch profiles and twitch accounts but they all have gnn before it so it's like mine is gnn underscore just a disney geek so
00:05:22
Speaker
And so I joined the the GNN gaming team and I'm also the basically the coordinator to keep us all on task and do scheduling and that kind of stuff. So I'm really diving a little bit more into the GNN family here than just this podcast.
00:05:41
Speaker
Oh, that's nice. That's good that you're able to do that and add on to the things that you're doing. That's that's wonderful. Yeah, absolutely. And then, you know, my plan, I actually went live for the first time on Monday, playing rather playing through Jedi Fallen Order again for the second time so that I'm prepared for the the sequel that comes out in March. So I'll be streaming Mondays and Thursdays at eight p.m. Eastern time.
00:06:08
Speaker
Uh, and, uh, my, my Twitch profile is GNN underscore just a Disney geek. So that's kind of where, uh, it'll kind of be an extension of CLL podcast. Uh, but I'll, you know, I'll be playing Star Wars and Star Trek games primarily, but I'll be throwing in some other stuff at random too. Nice. Well, congrats on that. I think that's wonderful. Keep up the good work on that. Thanks, man. Thanks. It's, it's been a lot, but it's now that it's now that we've kind of got it going.
The Bad Batch Season 2 Premiere Discussion
00:06:55
Speaker
Okay, let's get started with the real reason why we are here today recording this episode, and that is to talk about two animated shows, one that just recently finished up its first season, and another that started its second season.
00:07:03
Speaker
It's starting to come together a lot better.
00:07:10
Speaker
both Star Wars and Star Trek fans have had a lot of good animation this year and last to look forward to and enjoy. And we are, let's start with the Star Wars side of things and we're going to talk about
00:07:26
Speaker
the season two premiere of The Bad Batch, as well as the most recent episode that aired as of Wednesday, January 11th. So we're going to talk about the first three episodes of The Bad Batch today. Nice. All right.
00:07:43
Speaker
Chris, overall thoughts on the two episode premiere? I don't remember the exact name of the episodes, but I'm calling it the Serenno job just because that's where the episodes take place. Oh, sure. Absolutely. Just in case you need them, though, the episode one is spoils of war and episode two is ruins of war. OK, thank you.
00:08:06
Speaker
Yep, no problem, no problem. You know what, I actually enjoyed them. Part one I seemed to enjoy a little bit more than part two. It was nice kind of getting reintroduced to the Bad Batch characters and Omega, watching them pulling off that little heist on that beach planet or island world or whatever. I thought it was very interesting how Echo's kind of having some sort of issue with
00:08:31
Speaker
the fact that they took in a rescued Omega from Kamino and it feels like basically because of her, they're basically on the run from the Empire at this point. So they get this opportunity to go on a mission to, was it Castle Serenno, I believe it was called, Calduca's old fortress, and to go try to steal some of his war chest. And the lady that they work with, I'm blanking on her name at this point. Do you remember her name?
00:08:58
Speaker
Oh, I can't remember either. I'm terrible with character names. I'm lucky I remember the people on the bad batch. Oh, no, I hear you. I can't get Hunter and Wrecker. I get them mixed up all the time. And then I hear them in Omega's voice. They don't sound like their names. But anyway, they don't.
00:09:18
Speaker
But anyway, they figure if they could get some of this war chest, they would actually be able to kind of have enough money to kind of live off the grid and not have to hide and run from the empire. So they go on this mission, which is a basic straightforward mission. Of course, they get separated. So you have Echo Tech and Omega trapped inside the cargo ship number three, trying to get one of the the chests of
00:09:43
Speaker
riches or whatever, and then Hunter and Wrecker are on the planet trying to protect the rest of the crew from the clone troopers. It was exciting. I thought what was really interesting was that they actually
00:09:58
Speaker
those escape pods, they were released, but they also had these containers that had these thrusters that they were able to go and, you know, fly through the air. Of course, they they just happened to have those, you know, but that's animation and stuff like that. That was OK. But it was neat watching them falling down. But of course, they land on a ledge and actually they managed to get out. But of course, it goes down.
00:10:23
Speaker
It's nice that we actually got to know a little bit about the Serenno people. I was starting to wonder, were they openly working for Count Dooku, or were they basically forced into it? I don't know. What were your thoughts on that?
00:10:43
Speaker
My knowledge of the politics of Serenno are pretty minimal. I mean, obviously, you know, with Dooku being the leader of the separatists, I want to say that Serenno was probably aligned with him, at least initially, you know, to possibly secede from the Republic. But yeah, I wouldn't be surprised that as the war went on that in order to
00:11:10
Speaker
you know to fuel his mission and drive him to victory you know he may have exerted more will against the people it doesn't surprise me that the Empire
00:11:23
Speaker
did an orbital bombardment to get rid of them. That seems to be how they try to silence anybody who's opposition or their enemies. It's pretty much their preferred choice. Yeah. I mean, it fits. Absolutely. And I thought it was nice to see that the bonding between Echo and Omega. I think that Echo realized he kind of crossed a line. It really, Omega is just a young girl. You know, it wasn't her fault. And they ended up realizing that they did the right thing.
00:11:48
Speaker
And I think he realized that that was more important than any kind of freedom or any kind of money or anything like that. So that was a nice lesson that came out of that. But I'll be honest with you, overall, the two-part episode just felt like a regular, it didn't really seem like it added to the story. It was just a one-off thing in a two-part. It's really my part.
00:12:08
Speaker
Think the episode was just kind of there to get us excited about the bad batch again to kind of have an action-packed episode that was worthy of a premiere without Really adding much
Character Analysis in The Bad Batch
00:12:22
Speaker
story. I mean, yeah, we got a little bit throughout I did so I did really enjoy the
00:12:33
Speaker
all the dress down by Wanda Sykes character in the little cantina. I really got a kick out of the face tattoo line when she was talking about Hunter. She's like, yeah, real subtle. She seemed to really like tech, his brown eyes. Yeah.
00:12:56
Speaker
You know, she's into that. What else did she say to her? What was it? To wreck her. Let's put those good muscles to use or something. Yeah. Yeah. I thought that was, yeah.
00:13:04
Speaker
Yeah, so there's a nice little flirtiness to her that's going to be a lot of fun if she's going to be a recurring character. And I'll be honest with you, I've always enjoyed Wanda Sykes her sense of humor and her even just the way her voice sounds just goes perfectly with her sense of humor. And as soon as I heard that voice, I was like, that's Wanda Sykes, isn't it? You know, so it's cool that now she's going to be part of the Star Wars universe. Yeah. And I don't think you bring I don't think you bring in someone like Wanda Sykes if you don't intend to have her do multiple episodes, though.
00:13:31
Speaker
Exactly. No, I agree with you. Absolutely. Also, it's nice to see that AZ 345 yada yada yada was actually he survived to the end of season one. When I watched the season finale last year, I was so worried. He kind of reminds me like a pet or like an animal and the thought of him like getting destroyed or being shut down and being gone for good kind of bothered me. So it's nice to see him floating around and having a new job.
00:13:59
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That was kind of fun. Nice little callback to, you know, to the final, or the final episodes of season one. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, but it sounds like, sorry, go ahead. No, I just, the whole nature of finish this one job and you'll be able to disappear. Yeah, right. What kind of season would that be if they just, okay, here's our mission. We completed successfully and now you'll never hear from us again, please.
00:14:25
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. I agree with that. Absolutely. And the Empire could be coming so strong so quickly. There's no way that they would be off the grid for long. Oh, yeah, for sure. You know, yeah, exactly. So, yeah, I know you said you kind of enjoyed the first part of the two part premiere more so than you enjoyed the second half. Yes, yes. I think. Go ahead. Yeah, I tend to agree with you. I don't know. It just.
00:14:55
Speaker
It was kind of boring. Yes. So did you happen to recognize the voice of Romar that the Serenno native that was helping the bad batch? No, I didn't. Did you ever watch Last Man Standing? Yes. Yes, I have. That was Mr. Elizalde. Are you serious? That was Hector Elizondo.
00:15:19
Speaker
Wow that I noticed it right away. Oh nice nice. Yeah, I did not pick up on that at all good catch You're really good with the Easter eggs the small small little things. You've got a knack for it Yeah, I'm okay. I guess Don't be so humble there sir. All right fair enough
00:15:39
Speaker
I thought whenever Wrecker was able to commandeer the tank, the Separatist tank, and use the big cannon, he's like, boom, I make a pretty good tank. I thought that was hilarious. I thought that was probably one of the best lines of the whole show.
00:15:56
Speaker
Honestly, oh, yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. And it was nice getting to see the connections back from the Clone Wars against, like you said, seeing the Separatist tanks and the droid that they just yanked out of there. I think it was right who did that. You know, that's always a little bit of fun seeing those little throwbacks to things. But after that, the rest of the episode was just dark visually. It was hard to see what was going on. It was just a basic clone trooper.
00:16:20
Speaker
Clones chasing the the bad batch again. It just it went on I think a little too long and it got too dry
00:16:28
Speaker
Yeah. I, I almost think like they could have maybe had a super sized first episode, maybe instead of 22 minutes, making it 43 or something that, you know, just enough to, well, actually when you do the math, that doesn't make any sense. Sorry. It's, it's late. My brain is not working. Um, no, maybe just like an extra 10 to 15 minutes instead of the full 22 would have probably
00:16:58
Speaker
Served all the purpose it needed to oh Absolutely, I agree with you now that being said with all that the basic kind of boringness of the episode the very ending of it I really enjoyed This uh this what's the name of this this guy at Admiral vice Admiral rampart. Is that the carry? Yes, something like that
00:17:17
Speaker
OK, yeah, so he's the guy from season one, right? Same character. I believe so. OK, OK. So watching him walking with Captain Wilco and claiming that he was there for the inaccuracies in the mission report and then how Wilco said there were no inaccuracies and I'm not going to fudge the information for you. And so he ends up being killed by Rampart. That was pretty spooky. And it ended. There were no words at the end. All you heard was this dark, foreboding music.
00:17:45
Speaker
and then they pull away from it and you just see Wilco falling down this chasm and then it just fades to dark. It actually gave me chills when I saw that and it makes me, it's making me very interested to see what's going to be happening more with this Rampart character. You know, what is he truly capable of? He seems like a young Tarkin in training basically.
00:18:06
Speaker
Yeah, I mean there's a reason why he's in that type of position of power is because of how ruthless he is. Right, absolutely. I can tell you exactly where this season is heading.
Clone Troopers to Stormtroopers Transition
00:18:19
Speaker
We're heading towards the dissolution of clone troopers as the Empire's infantry people. Oh, definitely. I am more and more convinced that we are going to see the introduction of storm troopers, of recruited storm troopers rather than manufactured clones.
00:18:42
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Oh, yeah, it's definitely coming definitely coming, you know, I mean I mean we saw in episodes like with Obi-Wan Kenobi we saw Clones on the streets of different planets, you know, they're like bumming for money things like that So basically they're their usefulness is gonna be done at some point. It's obvious or we know that already because then they become Sam troopers, but you know that I just thought it was a very it was a very
00:19:06
Speaker
dark ending and it was one that I actually enjoyed. It pulled me into like, I want to know more about this guy. And it also kind of made me wonder too, you think about it, the Republic always seemed like they had decent people fighting for the greater good, things like that. But then as soon as they became the empire, all of a sudden all these dark people came out and they're vicious and cruel and evil. Is that just something that just kind of happened because now they're in power or was that something going on while they were serving the Republic as well?
00:19:36
Speaker
I would say that there's there was a lot of influence by Palpatine. OK. You know, because I mean, look at how he was able to destroy the Jedi Order from within. You don't think that he was grooming people that were close to him in the Republic and, you know, telling them or at least letting them in to part of what his plan was. Right. Oh, yeah, I'm sure.
00:20:02
Speaker
He's surrounding himself with the people that he knows would enforce his, you know, terrible, terrible demands. Sure, absolutely. And I guess that makes sense, too, because I believe it was in season three of the Clone Wars. Tarkin was in a couple of the Citadel episodes, right? I remember correctly. And he was just as dark then, too. And it just didn't seem to fit like the ideals of the Republic. You know, it's like, you know, it makes sense that Palpatine would have been kind of grooming certain people
00:20:31
Speaker
It even kind of I guess if you tied into the rise of Skywalker there was a there was a general I can't remember his name, but he ended up killing Hux It said to Palpatine as I served you in the in the old wars as I serve you now something to that effect So I guess he was one of the ones as well that had been groomed from back back in the day. Oh, yeah. Yeah, absolutely
00:20:53
Speaker
somebody like Palpatine can't have too many people in his inner circle. So he had to be very, very cautious about who he led in and who he, you know, yes, informed of his plans. Yes, exactly. Of course, he's going to reward loyalty. Oh, absolutely. And I hope that eventually, since this seems like this was a theory that you came up with, I never thought of it this way. So maybe maybe somebody will come up with something about that, an episode of one of the shows Sunday and kind of show a little bit of that. That would be great. Yeah.
00:21:23
Speaker
We'll see. I mean, there's a lot of stories to tell. Absolutely. Absolutely. All right. So now let's talk about the most recent episode, the one that aired Wednesday, January 11th. This one, this one, I think is definitely giving us a lot more story and a lot more indication of the direction the show is going to go this season. Absolutely. Absolutely. So why don't you give us a little rundown?
00:21:46
Speaker
All right. Well, this episode was called the solitary clone, which makes perfect sense because crosshair was the focus of this episode. None of the rest of the bad batch. So it was really interesting because it showed that he just kind of obviously he feels a lot separated, a lot different from the rest of the other clones. We see that in that mess all at the beginning. The one thing that was very interesting and it ties back to your point about the clones being retired.
00:22:12
Speaker
One of the clones made a mention of the defense, what is it, the Defense Recruitment Bill, and they were worried about that that was possibly going to be going into effect soon. But it was kind of left at that. So the episode starts on the planet Desix, and a group of Imperials show up under the leadership of an Imperial governor named Groton. I guess he's going to be the regional governor for that area.
00:22:36
Speaker
Well, there is a political figure, I guess the leader of the planet Dessex, her name is Tawny Ames, and basically she takes him and his...
00:22:47
Speaker
I don't know what they are, clone troopers? Or are they the first generation of storm troopers, these new uniforms? But anyway, she takes them prisoner, so the Empire decides to send Crosshair to go and rescue them, but they plan to have him appear as a diplomat rather than as somebody going in there with military force. But they don't feel that he's quite ready to be a leader yet because he spent 32 rotations stranded on Kamino.
00:23:16
Speaker
So they end up putting him under command of Commander Cody. So they end up going to Desex and it's being armed by, I guess you have a lot of Separatist droids and tanks and you even have a tactical droid in there because I guess Desex was part of the Separatist movement.
00:23:36
Speaker
at that time. So a battle ensues, maybe the I guess the desiccans, if you want to call them that, with the help of these droids shoot down the shuttle that's bringing crosshair and their team down there, they end up fighting against the droid army, they eventually make it to the governor, Groton, who is basically telling crosshair and Cody,
00:24:01
Speaker
you know, shoot or do something, you know, rescue me. And it was really interesting that she said we based on the fact that they were separatists, it made you think that she just was a separatist and just didn't want to be a part of the republic. But she said something very interesting in it. She said that she at one point had tried to form a treaty with either the separatists and the republic to end the war, but that Palpatine actually rejected it. And then she said to her to to them peace was never an option.
00:24:30
Speaker
at this point. And Cody, that seems to hit something with him. So he actually takes his helmet off, lays his stuff down and tries to end the siege that they're having right there diplomatically. And she chooses to trust them, which was ended up being a big mistake. And she ends up she lets them go and then Groton actually demands that Cody shoot her.
00:24:51
Speaker
but he doesn't follow orders. And while Groton is yelling at Cody for this, Crosshair does the deed and takes her out. And the episode ends basically with, I guess they were at like a war memorial for the Republic. And Cody was talking to Crosshair about how this just doesn't seem right the way that we were fighting here. And we're different from droids in the fact that we have to live with the consequences of our actions.
00:25:19
Speaker
And Cody walked away and crosshair this kind of kind of seemed like he was processing it a little bit.
Themes of Independence in The Bad Batch
00:25:25
Speaker
Then we see him again at the end of the episode and he gets called to that same imperial's office and he finds out that Cody went AWOL and this the the the imperial officer, I guess it's that that rampart again.
00:25:41
Speaker
Saying it's very interesting how these clones seem to disappear when you're around and the episode basically ends with crosshair Just kind of walking down a corridor and it makes you kind of made me wonder you know as he's starting to process is he starting to think that the that Cody might be right about what's going on and
00:25:57
Speaker
It also was hinted at in the episode that the several the clones are actually starting to wonder More and more as a group did acting on order 66. Was that the right thing to do? Are we serving the Empire we serving? What's good? Well, we were trying to preserve by fighting the Clone Wars You know, and that's pretty much those that's pretty much where the episode left and I I just thought it was a wonderful episode and
00:26:21
Speaker
It was dark, but it introduced some different things into the situation about how the clones now seem to be starting to question the empire rather than just blindly following them. And what repercussions are they going to have coming soon? Yeah, yeah, I think that's going to be an interesting plot thread that presents itself throughout the season. Yeah, I mean, you can you can accomplish so much with programming, but look at today's technology, you know, how
00:26:49
Speaker
how our phones learn from us. Our phones are always learning the way that we speak, the structure of our sentences when we type messages or type emails, like the predictive text and all of that.
00:27:04
Speaker
machines are able to learn and adapt, right? And obviously humans are even more capable of learning and adapting. And yeah, it's while the Order 66 programming was able to basically be turned on,
00:27:22
Speaker
Just like Commander Cody said, you know, they have to live with the choices and the consequences of their actions. So, yeah, I mean, that definitely makes sense why, you know, the empire is moving into this recruitment model, you know, why they want to move into a recruitment model is because, you know, by recruiting, they are basically going to get people who are willing to do what the empire wants to have done.
00:27:50
Speaker
Or, you know, if I don't know if the Star Wars galaxy has a military service draft like we do here in the US, but.
00:28:00
Speaker
you know, at some point they can draft people and probably still find a way to indoctrinate them to the empire's ways. Sure. Absolutely. Absolutely. I agree with you. Yeah. It was, what was interesting about the episode is basically when we've heard about the inhibitor chips that the, the Kaminoans put in there and into the clones and they flipped for order 66, it made you think that they just became mindless automatons. That's just the kind of way it came off during all season one, a bad batch. Right. And now all of a sudden I'm starting to wonder, you know, are, are,
00:28:30
Speaker
the clones able to start when they start feeling remorse and regret and having independent thought, does that override the chip in its orders? That's what it seems like. Yeah, it's really it's amazing. It's a whole new angle that the fans are now going to be going on and wondering what's going to be happening here. So I can't wait for the next few episodes to see what they come up with to see what how this all kind of links together. Yeah, it'll be interesting. I'm
00:28:58
Speaker
I'm a lot more excited about this season, I think, now than after these first three episodes than I was previously. Yes, yes, absolutely. Now, just as a side note, do you happen to know anything about episode four? Do you know any like what the story is about or? No clue. I really am not much of a spoiler seeker. Like I know it's out there, but I really I would rather just watch it in the moment.
00:29:20
Speaker
Mm hmm. No, I agree with you. I agree with you because then it's it makes it no, you know, it's just no fun. It gets boring because, you know, a third of what's happening. Yeah. All right. So I think we've kind of really, really had a deep dive into the first three episodes of The Bad Batch over the last several minutes.
Star Trek Prodigy Final Episodes
00:29:42
Speaker
So what do you say we turn the conversation towards Star Trek?
00:29:46
Speaker
Absolutely. Sounds good to me. Live long and prosper. All right. So we had the final four episodes of Star Trek Prodigy air right through the Christmas holiday. It wrapped up what, at the end of December? Yes, December 29th.
00:30:08
Speaker
Right at the end of December, we got to go into 2023 not having any more episodes of the show so that we could focus on the rest of what's coming this year. We're going to talk about the last four episodes of Star Trek Prodigy. That was episodes 17 through 20.
00:30:28
Speaker
uh episodes 19 and 20 of course were a two-part finale so let's talk about episode 17 uh this one was called what ghost in the machine correct yes exactly okay so i did i did write down the episode names for this for prodigy just not for bad batch i got you i printed them off wikipedia nice nice
00:30:51
Speaker
So Ghost in the Machine was our classic holodeck episode and a lot of the Trek story tropes from holodeck episodes were presented here in animated form. So why don't you give us a little walkthrough or breakdown of the episode, Chris?
00:31:11
Speaker
All right, so basically, it turns out that hologram Janeway actually caused them to be trapped in the holiday. They were just having fun experimenting. And all of a sudden, they weren't able to leave. And what ended up happening was is they started jumping into different holographic scenarios that each one of the characters had, I guess, for their interests.
00:31:35
Speaker
So Zero ended up having some sort of detective story that they started out. It almost kind of seemed like they were trying to get out of like a... What are those houses that people... Those escape rooms is what I'm thinking about. That's kind of what it came out from. So they had to find some sort of key.
00:31:54
Speaker
And then they managed to go outside of this haunted mansion or whatever into a street fighting simulation of Jenkins Pogs, which basically focused on a whole bunch of Tellarites. And I think that, if I remember correctly, the key was a tattoo on one of the Tellarites' chests.
00:32:10
Speaker
Then they end up moving into a jazz club simulation that was Murph's. And Murph started putting on like a 1930s kind of like Frank Sinatra kind of singing kind of thing, which really surprised the crew. Really be honest, I think surprised the audience because all Murph does is squeal during the episodes. But all of a sudden now he's singing with a voice.
00:32:34
Speaker
Okay, and then they end up going into a Dall's pirate simulation, which I didn't find that very interesting. That one kind of bored me. But then they go into Rock's virtual pet scenario and kind of meet some of her little pets that she created. And what was interesting about the episode is that Zero realized that
00:32:54
Speaker
everything that they're being they're moving into one program after another but they're not solving anything they're just having another mystery to solve and he deduces basically that they're being they're being kept inside the holodeck for some reason and what we end up finding out is that there's that device that the protostar is carrying i can't remember what exactly the name was but basically it's designed that if the federation hails the ship
00:33:19
Speaker
the protostar, it'll end up affecting all of Starfleet, literally just basically destroying the whole fleet. And so basically hologram Janeway finds out that it was she who trapped them in there from some weird secret subroutine that she wasn't aware of. It's called the construct. That's what it's called, the construct. So basically what she was ordered to do is keep them in the holodeck moving through these programs until they reach Federation space and then there'd be no way for them to stop.
00:33:49
Speaker
What happened so but eventually Jane way let them out and they were everything was pretty good I thought it was an interesting episode It definitely added to a little bit of the danger that's going to be happening with with the protostar Reaching Federation space, you know, but I kind of thought at the same time It was a little bit of a filler episode a lot of those holodeck episodes tend to be fillers even though they're interesting But what do you know? Yeah, I mean
00:34:15
Speaker
it for the most part, it felt like a filler episode, but it was still adding story. I mean, you know, Prodigy is mostly episodic, but there are still small plot threads that went through every episode, which is what I kind of enjoy. I don't mind having episodic Trek, but it's very similar to how episodic Trek was with Next Generation and DS9. You know, there were
00:34:45
Speaker
Character driven moments and character development development moments that you know appeared even though most of the episodes were One-offs, you know, they didn't really they weren't telling a consistent narrative, but every character was moving in a direction
00:35:01
Speaker
Yes, yes. No, I agree with you. I agree with you. I like to how it shows a lot of the positive interactions with the crew members and developing their personalities. I've generally come to really love rocks attention with Murph. You don't expect this big beast of a rock creature to
00:35:17
Speaker
have like this big heart for some squishy little creature. And she's been nothing but caring and supportive of that character. And watching Doll actually starting to become more of a leader and kind of accepting who he is, especially now that he's an augment and kind of trying to figure out who he is and where he fits in the universe. That was really good. I think we saw a little bit in this episode and it actually started to strengthen even more in the last three.
00:35:47
Speaker
Right, right. Yeah, yeah. Did you, do you have a favorite holodeck program of the ones that we saw? You know, I think I liked Zero's detective story. And I think a lot of that is because I'm a big fan of the board game Clue. And it kind of reminded me of that a little bit. Just the setting and, you know, the basic story of it. So what about you? What did you enjoy? Oh, come on. I had to pick Merce as my favorite.
00:36:15
Speaker
I had a hunch. Yeah, you know, I mean, one, two reasons. We have, it was completely, completely shocking that that's what we got as Murph's holodeck program. Nobody expected that, like you said. And then, you know, we have another great lounge singer in Trek, you know, joining the ranks of Mr. Vic Fontaine himself.
00:36:38
Speaker
Absolutely, absolutely great point. But the question is, when's Murph gonna start talking for real? Right, well, I mean, we know he can. We know he can sing at least. Yeah, absolutely. I think, didn't one of them even say Murph can sing? I think one of them made the comment of, which kind of reminded me, yeah, it kind of reminded me of it in Picard season two when Picard was down sick in that clinic and Raffi said to everybody, wow, a jarate can sing.
00:37:07
Speaker
You know, one of those moments. Yes. Yeah. And a little Star Wars connection.
Body-Swapping Episode Chaos
00:37:13
Speaker
You do know who does the quote unquote voice of Murph, right? Yes. Dee Bradley Baker. Right. So the voice of all the clones is also the voice of Murph. So I wonder if that was his singing voice. That would be really interesting to find out. Definitely. Maybe, you know, going on memory alpha, maybe that would be a good little research thing just to check out.
00:37:34
Speaker
Perhaps. Maybe I'll look into it after the show. Me too. I think that'd be a great idea. All right. I think we've kind of covered episode 17. Let's move on to episode 18, Mindwalk. This was another kind of classic Trek plot device with body swapping between characters. It's definitely been used quite a few times in the past.
00:37:57
Speaker
It's it's good to see a lot of these classic Trek story tropes coming into animation that's designed for kids. Right. Yes. Yeah. And so why don't you give us a little rundown of episode 18? OK, so at this part in this episode, basically we find out the protostar is still heading for Federation space, but Vice Admiral Janeway ship the Dauntless is following close behind.
00:38:24
Speaker
Dahl tries to use his telepathy to try to use to warn Admiral Janeway about what's going on with the construct and to not act to not contact or hail them. But in the process, they actually switch bodies in with their minds. So Janeway in Dahl's body is learning the story of the protostars crew and actually is able to repair hologram Janeway and finally vows to help the team. So finally, they get an ally from the Federation at this point, which is great.
00:38:53
Speaker
On the other hand, though, you know, while Janeway can be nice and prim and proper, Dahl, as we know, is not that that season, you know, so he's walking around in Janeway's body, you know, saying cool and stumbling over his words and making little guns that he's waving with the hands. So the crew obviously knows something's not up, that she's either being mind controlled or she's going mentally ill. Something to that effect.
00:39:21
Speaker
Right. And so we eventually the final straw was the coffee, though. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. So they basically they they decide that they have to arrest Janeway and put her put her in, you know, in the in the brig or whatever. But eventually what ends up happening is on the Dauntless doll attempts to pass as the admiral more and more, but is finally able to get out of the ship. Both of them are able to get out of their prospective ships.
00:39:48
Speaker
And they join hands so that way they can actually swap minds again. And if I remember correctly, there was some sort of power beam or something that they used to cause that to happen. So they were able to get back on their own ships. And the episode ends with they find they're in front of a Federation fleet, basically. And it's a mix of like Akira class ships, sovereign class ships. And I think it's a bunch of defiant class ships, too. So it was a nice little little throwback to older track.
00:40:18
Speaker
You know, so. Yeah. What do you think of the episode? I thought it was overall, I thought it was a really enjoyable episode. I mean, I don't really have a whole lot to add to what you've already said. But do you recall when we were last talking about Prodigy, how excited I was for you to watch this particular episode to see if you caught a reference that, you know, a reference to something that you talked about actually at length in our Halloween episode.
00:40:48
Speaker
Oh, really catch it. I probably didn't. OK. So at one point, Janeway was talking to Dal and mentioned about having once been a lizard.
00:41:01
Speaker
Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. That's right. I did catch that. Yes. So yeah. Nice little reference to threshold. Absolutely. Absolutely. I'll tell you what that episode is one of the least popular episodes of the Star Trek universe, but it's constantly referenced and brought up in fandom. It's crazy. You know, sometimes it's with dubious honors, but yeah.
00:41:23
Speaker
Absolutely absolutely but hey i mean i guess i mean it was a crappy episode but it actually it's stuck in a lot of minds of people cuz of how campy and silly it was you know. So cool yeah i thought it was a great episode to finally get us into federation space and of course it was a shocker to see this whole big armada you know.
00:41:41
Speaker
Because we know what's coming, you know what the danger is to all of the Federation at least now though the crew of the protostar know that they got an ally with Janeway there and Janeway can warn them but not knowing that Janeway is being is Basically a prisoner at this point on board the Dauntless, you know, so but it led into the two-part finale perfectly. Mm-hmm
00:42:04
Speaker
You know, so, I guess if anything, I'm sorry, go ahead.
Protostar Finale and Emotional Farewells
00:42:08
Speaker
No, no, I was actually just going to awkwardly segue us into talking about episodes 19 and 20 of, of, so, uh, Hey, awkward, awkward or not. We're, we're going with it. So, uh, let, let's treat this as a, as a true two partner and just talk about them both rather than separating the episodes. So, uh,
00:42:31
Speaker
Why don't you give us a breakdown and tell us your thoughts overall? Overall, I thought it was a pretty good episode. So basically what ends up happening is we have the diviner has finally got his memories back. And then we have the vindicator who is basically, I guess, disguising herself as one of the Dauntless crew members as a trill. And we find out that she was sent back from the future as well to kind of, I guess, help the diviner or fulfill the mission of
00:43:01
Speaker
Sabotaging the Federation destroying them if as need is so they would never meet the Val nakat and then obviously there's a new dreadnough or general Grievous character that's there so what ended up happening was the Dauntless crew decided they were going to hail the proto star at the last second Jamie tried to stop them She managed to get onto the bridge was surprised everybody that she was free
00:43:24
Speaker
But it was too late. So the construct actually sent the computer virus to all of the Federation fleet members there. And basically, it caused the Federation ships to start attacking each other and basically destroying themselves from within. And so unfortunately, that it continues to be very, very widespread. And while the protostar crew is trying to find a way to stop this,
00:43:48
Speaker
The protostar manages to get in contact if I remember correctly with a Klingon bird of prey and Admiral the hologram Janeway is able to kind of convince her and maybe some other aliens in the in the sector to come in and use their shields to kind of Protect the Federation ships from destroying each other and so they managed to end up coming together in that regard. Yeah Let's see here and then apparently what happens is because the
00:44:18
Speaker
The the virus is affecting the communication systems in the fleet the ships translators even on the protostar go down So everybody's talking in their own their own languages. Nobody can understand each other But Gwen actually said that she was able to study different languages when she they were all still in the Delta quadrant So she was able to send out these distress signals and it also brought the Federation out fleet as well But unfortunately what ends up happening is is that affects those ships as well?
00:44:46
Speaker
So in that led into part two, where the crew of the protostar figure out what can we do to stop this destruction? It's going on. And they work together and decide that they can use the proto warp and they can send the ship away with the proto warp and also simultaneously destroy it in the process. They realize that hologram Janeway is going to end up being destroyed. So she says, no, don't worry about it. I can get myself a copy on a nice linear chip. You could take me with you.
00:45:14
Speaker
So what they do is they use the ship's ability to like, they have like a ship replicator in there and are building a shuttle for them to get out. Hologram Janeway finds out that she can't download herself, that because of all the experiences she had with the ProtoStar crew, she grew so much that her program couldn't be downloaded. So she gives them the isolinear chip, it doesn't tell them that she can't go with them.
00:45:38
Speaker
What she does is she basically see that they release the shuttle and hold hologram jay way detonates the proto warp while while the ships at warp and
00:45:50
Speaker
Basically, it destroys the ship and is able to stop whatever transmission is going on with the Federation fleet. But they end up accessing the Isolinear chip, and they just get a basic message from Hologram Janeway saying, I couldn't be downloaded, how much I valued and loved all of you guys, and good luck with everything that they do.
00:46:12
Speaker
So then they get to the really good part of the episode. I love that. I love that we got to go back to Earth. And it was interesting seeing these people being on trial. I mean, they're kids, you know, they went out of their way to try to save the Federation and they're on trial kind of reminded me of Star Trek IV a little bit, the ending.
00:46:27
Speaker
when they were on trial. But of course, Admiral Janeway advocates for them because she knows what actually happened. And she agrees to basically take on, some people may know this reference from the facts of life, the Mrs. Garrett role, basically, and takes these kids on under her under her wing, basically, and has them be warrant officers on a new mission to find Captain Chakotay and the original protostar crew.
00:46:54
Speaker
And unfortunately, even though they all thought that Dahl was not going to be able to go and join them because of him being an augment, but they actually allow him to do so. But they won't allow Gwen because of what her people had done. So Gwen chooses to go to her home world to try to prevent the Civil War that eventually would happen.
00:47:15
Speaker
and go from there. So she leaves them behind. The episode ends with what looks like a brand new protostar, the protostar A, and that's going to be the ship that they take on in Season 2 to find Chakotay. I don't think that's accurate, Chris. You don't? You don't think that's the new protostar? No, no, I do not think they are going to be on the protostar. I believe Janeway even mentioned that that is not going to be their ship because it was too small.
00:47:40
Speaker
Yeah, you think? Yeah, no, I know Janeway specifically said that they were not taking the protostar a. Oh, wow. OK, I must have missed that. I remember her saying about that being the protostar success caused them to know it's going to be a protostar class, but I really thought that was going to be their ship. So, OK, no, I guess I'm going to watch it again. All right. And that leads me to believe that we are going to see a new version of Voyager that Janeway commands.
00:48:10
Speaker
Ah, okay. You know what? You may actually be right because I was watching, I didn't watch it, but I saw a clip from Trek Yards on YouTube and apparently it showed a little ship or a little shuttle that said NCC 74656-A. So maybe you're right.
00:48:31
Speaker
about that. Yeah. You're probably right. Now that makes that makes sense. That makes another that would be really cool. They're spending all this time on the protostar a they've named an entire class after the original ship.
00:48:47
Speaker
But yeah, that whole thing was just like a whole like it was just a red herring. It seemed like interesting. That is very interesting. I mean, because you would think I mean, like that would be like, you know, like with the original series after the Enterprise was destroyed, they put them all on the Excelsior for the rest of the movies. It just wasn't fit. You know what I mean? Right. So then not doing the protostar would be kind of odd. But I mean, hey, you know, that's one thing that's different about this generation of Trek is they seem to take different kind of
00:49:16
Speaker
Chances with stuff. Yeah killing off characters and replacing them very quickly and things like that So maybe you know, that's what they're gonna do. No more protostar
00:49:25
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, obviously it exists in Starfleet, but yeah, we're not going to see it, I don't think, in future seasons of Prodigy. Interesting. Interesting. At this point, we don't know when season two of Prodigy is going to premiere, except that it's supposed to be from apparently late 2023, which I said in our previous episode. So, you know, I'm excited about it. I can't wait to see where this goes. I think this was a wonderful season. I think this this particular series of episodes really kind of pulled it all together and really made a very interesting show.
Character Growth and Thematic Parallels
00:49:54
Speaker
Yeah, and the way with animation, they have to work on that so many years in advance. So they had probably done a lot of the animation and the storyboarding and a lot of the stuff for season two before we even saw the second half of season one, if I had to guess.
00:50:15
Speaker
Yes. So I'm sure this was in the plan for quite some time. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, I can't wait for I can't wait for season two. And honestly, this show is excellent for kids. But it's also really good at drawing the adults into because there are a lot of adult adult moments in it. It's not like this, this little kitty show.
00:50:35
Speaker
reno and i think out of a lot of the current star check it really brings out the ideals of what jean rodbury tried talking about. What star check about people working together and accepting differences and you know learning from mistakes and it's in just you know working together for the greater good i just it's a wonderful.
00:50:54
Speaker
example of what Star Trek is all about. So I'm glad it's going to continue. Yeah, I really enjoyed this finale. Just some of the things that I really thought were kind of standouts. Gwen was just incredible in that two episode arc, like the fact that she was able to speak all those languages, that her father made her learn all those languages. It was in an effort to turn the Federation species against one another.
00:51:24
Speaker
And then she is constantly fighting her programming and her intended purpose by using it to help the Federation. I thought that was a nice little twist. Um, and, and, you know, let you know that no matter what our programming that we can still influence, uh, the path that we take. Absolutely. Absolutely. I agree with you 100%. Kind of interesting because that seems to be the thread that's running through bad batch. Right.
00:51:50
Speaker
Exactly. They all seem to connect. Well, that's the whole point of our podcast is comparing the two. This is true. Absolutely. The whole Starfleet distress protocol that called all the ships to
00:52:06
Speaker
the location of the protostar. Do you know if that has ever been used in Trek before or was that brand new for this? To be honest with you, I think it was brand new. I don't remember them actually calling the entire, like an entire fleet with them. Unless maybe they did that in Picard season two maybe, and I'm just not remembering in the premiere when all those ships came to the anomaly to assist the stargazer. Maybe not, I don't know, but I mean,
00:52:36
Speaker
Maybe that's the closest thing to it. But yeah, I don't remember any other or the older trucks that actually happening. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe it's in the book material, which I know isn't canon anymore, but it did at one point it did used to be canon. Mm hmm. So I don't know if that has ever been used before, but I'd be interested to find out. Right. Right. Absolutely.
00:53:00
Speaker
Did you get some echoes or vibes of Wesley Crusher with Gwen, you know, she having to make the decision to leave the crew of the protostar that she had gotten to know over all those years, you know, to to return to Solum to try and influence her people not to fall into the same pattern that led to the mission to come destroy the Federation. I thought that was very similar to how Wesley made the choice to go with the traveler.
00:53:30
Speaker
Mm hmm. And continue his journey away from the enterprise and away from Starfleet. Right. You know, I didn't make that that connection. But now that you're saying it, that definitely makes a lot of sense. Yeah, there are definitely a lot of similarities with that. So it'll be interesting to see. I can't think that Gwen won't pop up in season two somehow to aid this new mission. You know, so it'll be interesting to see how she grew. She grew. She grew as a character over this period of time, whatever time jump it's going to be.
00:53:58
Speaker
You know, kind of like with Wesley, you know, with Wesley, maybe she'll end up being like the link that kind of brings the Federation and her people together in a positive way rather than the destructive way it did in the previous timeline. Right. We can hope. Yeah, exactly. Either that or we'll just see
00:54:20
Speaker
like Gwyn being like a B-plot or an A-plot of an episode. You know, we might see Gwyn doing what she's doing in Solum while we're still keeping up with the crew of the original protostar and Janeway.
00:54:36
Speaker
Right. That's a good point. That's a good point. Or they might even do just a one off episode briefly, you know, like they did with Bad Batch here just just this week, you know, and it might just be a one off, but it might have threads that lead into the rest of the season. You know, I just I can't see one of the main characters from season one not having more than one or two episodes.
00:54:59
Speaker
Right. No, I agree with you. And especially since she has that relationship with doll, I mean, they kissed in the finale, you know, so there's obvious feelings that are developing there. You know, it's almost as like how Janeway is so close with Jokote, that's doll and Gwyn now as well. Mm hmm.
00:55:14
Speaker
You know, so who knows that might, that might end up mirroring somehow. I mean, there's that Janeway Chikote shipping thing that's going on on Twitter. You know, everybody's dying to see them kiss and become a couple. Of course. Well, you know, that's that's how some people just make sense of the world, right? They exactly.
00:55:33
Speaker
You know, they they ship characters. It's their way of connecting their way of finding meaning. Absolutely.
Final Thoughts and Speculations
00:55:40
Speaker
Absolutely. And there's nothing wrong with wanting to see characters hook up. That's right. Right. It's human nature. Very true. Yeah. Do you have any last thoughts on anything that we talked about today?
00:55:52
Speaker
Not not really just that you know prodigy season one was was much more impressive than I thought it would be much more layered I thought I honestly when they announced this show I didn't know what they were gonna do with it I didn't think it had a really interesting premise it just sounded like a bunch of teenagers that were just gonna steal a ship and go on adventures
00:56:10
Speaker
but they really built a very detailed layered story with really good characters that they're actually showing and growing. So that's going to be great to continue to see. It's the same thing with the Bad Batch, you know, watching these brothers coming together and trying to take care of Omega while trying to survive, you know, and seeing what they can do to try to help people against the Empire. I just think it's
00:56:35
Speaker
We're going to see it grow more and more and more. And I just and we're going to see, like, I think some really interesting battles and some crew interactions. And we're going to see some interesting stuff coming up with the empire. So I think I can't wait for to watch the rest of this season. Yeah, yeah, for sure. I'm I'm a lot more excited about it now after the first three episodes than I was initially. So that's good.
00:57:00
Speaker
Oh, the one thing I know I had messaged you about this in our Facebook Messenger chat, but everything at the very, very end of the final episode of Prodigy, we saw that little cameo that I told you about. Yes, I had no clue who that was.
00:57:20
Speaker
I thought she looked familiar at first. I'm like, no, that can't be. And then I looked at her Instagram page and she had posted those pictures. I'm like, yep, that makes sense. That makes perfect sense. And for those of you who have no idea what we're talking about,
00:57:40
Speaker
friend of the podcast, Dr. Erin McDonald, who is the current science and technical advisor for the Star Trek series on Paramount Plus, actually made her trek debut in the final moments of episode 20 of Star Trek Prodigy. And she was a science officer who was watching Rock Talk interact with all the creatures in that little lab.
00:58:05
Speaker
Mm hmm. So I thought that was and that was also her voice as well. You know, the one or two lines that she spoke. Mm hmm. Man, she must have geeked out when she did that because I mean, you imagine she told us in her interview with her how much of a fan she was for years. And now she's actually an official part of it with a character.
00:58:24
Speaker
That would, that's just, that would be mind blowing. Yeah, absolutely. And if you're new to our show and you have not yet gone into our back catalog to listen to our interview with Dr. Aaron McDonald, that was episode 10. And it was a fun episode to record fun to talk to Dr. Aaron. Uh, I kind of would like to bring her back on the show at some point to see if, uh, you know, she happens to have any insight on, on that process. Absolutely.
00:58:51
Speaker
Yeah, it was a fun hour and a half or whatever it was for us to talk to her. It was a blast, so that'd be great. Absolutely. But on that note, I think we are going to wrap up episode 22 of Captain's Logs and Lightsabers podcast until we get back together and talk again. I am Jonathan. And I'm Chris. May the force be with you. And live long and prosper.