Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
CLL 40 - What Makes a Leader?
28 Plays1 month ago
Chris and Jonathan go back to the roots of Captains’ Logs and Lightsabers when the episode topics were more of a compare and contrast format between Star Wars and Star Trek. What makes a leader? Chris put together a fantastic dissection of the various leadership styles we see in Star Trek and Star Wars. Using several Star Trek captains as examples Chris breaks down each one’s unique style of leadership, the similarities they share, and more. Then the discussion turns to the leadership styles of the core Star Wars characters that served in leadership roles.
Use my special link (https://zen.ai/QiFszFD-Mts8PuWhMGdOmA ) to save 30% off your first month of any Zencastr paid plan.
EVERY ORDER 20% Off Mad Rabbit Tattoo Care!!
Contact the Show:
Bluesky - @cllpodcast.bsky.social
TikTok - @CLLPod
Facebook - www.facebook.com/LogsAndLightsabersPod
Instagram/Threads - @cllpodcast
Email: logslightsaberspod@gmail.com
Apple Podcasts Link - Rate and Review!
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/captains-logs-and-lightsabers/id1560069195
Spotify Link - Rate Us!
https://open.spotify.com/show/0h44WzqUlc726aafvwwlD4
Follow us on all social media platforms so you never miss any of our content! Stay updated on the latest news, sneak peeks, and exclusive content—join our community today!
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61565333760273
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/feastoffandoms
Recommended
Transcript
Introductions & Podcast Milestone
00:00:00
Speaker
Captain's log. I'm solo. I'm Captain Millennium Falcon. This is Captain Jean-Luc Picard of the Federation Starship Enterprise.
00:00:20
Speaker
One message from Starfleet coming in on secure channel.
00:00:31
Speaker
listening to Captain's Logs and Lightsabers. Hey, welcome to Captain's Logs and Lightsabers. This is the podcast with Beast of Fandoms that discusses both Star Trek and Star Wars.
00:00:44
Speaker
This is our 40th episode. My name is Jonathan. I am one of the hosts. But I could not pull this show off without my co-host, Chris Stow. How's it going, man?
00:00:55
Speaker
I'm good, Jonathan. How are you doing? You know, I'm pretty good. It's it's been... It's probably been since January that we recorded. um So it's it's it's time to get back on it again. I know we we say that a lot, but life gets in the way. And yeah, it's we're finally ready to bring another
Podcast Journey & ChatGPT Brainstorming
00:01:15
Speaker
episode to you. And I think this one is going back to our roots a little bit, isn't it?
00:01:20
Speaker
Yes, it is. Back to comparing Star Trek and Star Wars, which has always been the the forefront of what we've been trying to bring here. Yeah. we We kind of started off with a very lofty mission of trying to show people that you know the franchises really aren't that different and that there are similarities and and comparisons that can be made with everything. And we kind of got away from that for a while just because was hard to sustain that type of content. you know when when when It's hard to come up with ideas of ways to...
00:01:54
Speaker
really talk about both in the same topic. So we actually used a little help. I used ChatGPT to kind of help me brainstorm some ideas for things to talk about in future episodes. And we said, ah you know, this was one of the suggestions. So Chris, why don't you tell us what we're talking about today? Because this episode you took the lead on.
Leadership Styles: Star Trek vs. Star Wars
00:02:16
Speaker
Yes. So basically what this episode is going to be talking about is leadership styles, not only with between the Federation and the Republic or the Empire or the First Order from Star Wars, and then talking about leadership styles amongst many of the captains from Star Trek and some of the leadership roles of the characters in Star Wars.
00:02:38
Speaker
So I thought that would be kind of an interesting kind of look. I've never thought about whether or not the Federation and the Republic or the Empire were very similar. so it' be so it's going to be fun to see what we come up with. Yeah, for sure. Now, are we talking about just Starfleet captains or are we going to be talking about...
00:02:56
Speaker
Captains from other alien races that have a made their mark in Star Trek. I'll be honest with you. and In doing my research for the show, I kind of stuck with the captains since we'd be kind of talking mostly about the Federation.
00:03:09
Speaker
Yeah. All right. Sounds good. I just wanted to kind of have a heads up of where we're going to be taking this conversation. Cool. Sure. Absolutely. Without further ado, sir. Okay, so obviously we know that the Star Trek, the Starfleet basically started in the 22nd century.
00:03:25
Speaker
And I think really if you watch a lot of the episodes, especially from the first season of Enterprise, you can see basically this was pre-Federation. So you just have Starfleet. And this was the first time that they were going to really go out and explore space. So they were all, everybody was green and in terms of their experience.
00:03:42
Speaker
So you can see in the first number of episodes, especially Captain Archer, he was upbeat, jovial, couldn't wait to have first contact with all these different races.
Evolution of Starfleet Leadership
00:03:51
Speaker
There was nothing like the prime directive in the way at that time yet.
00:03:54
Speaker
every It was just or the whole canvas out there. So and you can see that that's basically Captain Archer style in the first two years. Then a few other little odds and ends started happening. In the second season, Archer started, he was wanted by the Klingon Empire after he escaped Rura Pente in episode Judgment. So he was wanted there.
00:04:14
Speaker
The crew was having all these issues with the Sulaban and dealing with the temporal Cold War. And even going back to the Klingons, they even though they weren't necessarily enemies of Starfleet, they were starting to become a nuisance to Enterprise and basically to Earth.
00:04:30
Speaker
Then all of a sudden, bam, the Zindi War happens. So Enterprise has to be retrofitted into a warship. The crew starts to become hardened. They go into the Delphic expanse for a year, and they really see for the first time that the true dangers of what can be out in space.
00:04:47
Speaker
And I think that started to shape a little bit more of... what Starfleet became later on in terms of having like the prime directive and how they meet with other races, how they deal with other races.
00:04:59
Speaker
Then they fight after the Zindi conflict and Starfleet has to kind of go into somewhat of a militaristic mode again, but also diplomatic because the Romulans started playing around with the major powers in the alpha quadrant.
00:05:12
Speaker
so And that's when, obviously, the the but Starfleet and the Vulcans and the Tellarites and the Andorians all came together when they were starting to deal with that pre-Romulan War stuff. And if we would have seen Enterprise go on into its fifth season, they were supposed to start working on the the seeds for the Romulan War.
00:05:29
Speaker
So they went in that century from... being green and being all excited about space travel to having to to being cautious more about space and realizing the dangers that were out there for the first time.
00:05:42
Speaker
And you can see that in Archer as the four seasons go on. He goes from bright and optimistic to hardened, but still trying to explore and but just being more cautious. Yeah, yeah. A temporal Cold War and a war between but you know them and seven United Species is enough to harden anyone, I think.
00:06:03
Speaker
Exactly, exactly. And literally, he said in the second season finale of Enterprise, he said, to we have the literally the weight of the world. on our shoulders. I mean, it's going to change if, you know, and and and the way you approach things in space.
00:06:17
Speaker
That leads then into the 23rd century. I think by that point, space travel has definitely been a lot more established. Warp speeds have gone up to at least warp nine. So they're much more capable of going out and exploring space. There are more rules and expectations.
00:06:32
Speaker
Yes, they they really seem to romanticize space travel. There was a beauty to it. Kirk loved the Enterprise, his ship. There was also, though, what I noticed, though, is there was a lot of a lot of the decisions that were made by Starfleet officers in the 23rd century tended to deal more with.
00:06:50
Speaker
How do you want to say, I guess, more emotion and passion, I think would maybe even be a better word for it. Out of any Star Trek, if you've ever watched any the other shows, the only the original series shows how much Kirk is deeply affected when.
00:07:05
Speaker
he loses a crew member. Like he would actually yell at other crew members. He'd get really angry about if he lost man. There was it in the very, the very first episode ever air of the man trap. One of his crew mates died on the planet and McCoy was going on about in this romantic haze about his former love and Kirk blew up on him and basically told him, you know I've lost a man. I don't care what your feelings are right now about this woman, you know? So there was, there was this, this thing about how much,
00:07:33
Speaker
crew members, eat valued crew members in life. Then if you go on into the movies in in Star Trek 3, when he and the rest of the crew basically tell Starfleet, we don't give a damn what you're your thoughts are about us going to Genesis. We're going to get there one way or another. And they sacrificed their futures all to go and get Spock. So loyalty to crew back then was very important, but they were also tended to be very impulsive and reckless.
00:08:00
Speaker
yeah with things. They really didn't care about the red shirts all that much, though, did they? that oh yeah I'll give you that. That is true. It wasn't it wasn't in every episode, but i mean but there there were a couple moments. and Even if you watch Arena and you see how how passionate Kirk is about them saving the Enterprise rather than worrying about him. i don't know if you remember watching Arena, but when they're on Cestus 3 and the planet's being attacked by the Gorn and Sulu's in command of the Enterprise and he's saying, well, what about you, sir?
00:08:32
Speaker
And Kirk literally like blows up at him and goes, never mind me, protect my ship. you know there was there was There was a lot of passion during that era ah that I've noticed in it in the 23rd century. They just seemed to be more impulsive and and followed more by the heart.
00:08:47
Speaker
And that's actually mentioned, if you ever watch a third season episode of Voyager Flashback, where Ensign Kim and Janeway are in the ready room, they're talking about they're basically talking about the 23rd century and about Kirk, Spock, and all of them. And she basically talks about how that That era of Starfleet officers would have been booted out of Starfleet in the 24th century because of those more going by your feelings and your gut instincts.
00:09:12
Speaker
But space travel was still a little bit more dangerous than it was in the 24th century. And Janeway even said it in the episode.
Dominion War's Impact on Starfleet
00:09:18
Speaker
You know, the ships were half as fast. They were having constant near war with the Klingons. The Romulans were hiding around everywhere. So there was a lot more, ah guess, on edge and being impulsive in that era.
00:09:30
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, when you think about it, yeah look at how technology advances in our own society. you know the The first generation of anything is always very large, very clunky, very... yeah it'ss It's not always the most sleek.
00:09:47
Speaker
you know It's not always the most intuitive. But you know as as the technology improves, you know you essentially you have to create that first thing in...
00:09:58
Speaker
in succession and then you can constantly build upon it and it gets just, you know, it just keeps getting exponentially better and safer and more powerful and, you know, and, and everything, it's just, you have to make that first breakthrough.
00:10:12
Speaker
so you know, the, the, you know, the very first, you know warp engine that we see in first contact is very rudimentary. But by the time that we're in the, the 24th century with, you know, the, the galaxy class ships and,
00:10:27
Speaker
yeah like the the Enterprise and and its successive versions. um you know Yeah, it's... things just look more sleek and polished and yeah, it's, it's just, so yeah, it, and it's, and it, it kind of runs a parallel, you know, the, the growth and the way that leadership was in, in the 22nd and the 23rd and the 24th centuries, it kind of goes along the same path, right?
00:10:54
Speaker
You know, the, the, the first generation was very reckless and impulsive until they realized that everything wasn't, you know, cupcakes and rainbows out in space.
00:11:06
Speaker
no And then, you know, then by the time that Kirk in the 23rd century, you know, the, it's still very rough around the edges. It's still very passionate, but then you, you know, you see the leadership styles of, of Picard who's, who's very calm, very collected.
00:11:24
Speaker
He's very, very polished, very, You know, he's he's very clean cut, you know, and and and it's yeah, it's I never thought of I never saw the parallels until just now, actually.
00:11:37
Speaker
Very good points that you're coming up with. And that actually leads into the 24th century discussion. You're right. By the 24th century, things are a lot more polished, a lot more relaxed, a lot more. of The Federation has been ah established and expanded on.
00:11:50
Speaker
it What it actually said in the writer's Bible for Next Generation is by that point, 11% of the galaxy had been explored. You got star bases everywhere. Things that were friends with the Klingons. and Now the Romulans at the beginning of Next Gen were actually in isolation at that point.
00:12:05
Speaker
So things were actually pretty good. So instead of having to act on impulse or act on passion and emotions, they seemed to, the Starfleet and Federation became more cerebral. And you can see that in a lot more of the way Picard, Sisko, and Janeway were, especially Picard.
00:12:20
Speaker
In most of the next generation, he was very... he was very thought out and he wanted to talk the issues out more. And he engaged with his crew a lot more than Kirk did in terms of feedback.
00:12:33
Speaker
For example, Kirk most of the time got his feedback from Spock with the logical one and McCoy, who was the emotional one. And he had to be the kind of like the tiebreaker, what they needed to do. But and I mean, yes, they had briefings and stuff with the other crew, but a large majority of his, his feedback from his crew came from those two.
00:12:53
Speaker
And but it's a little different in the next generation of Deep Space Nine and Voyager, where they always have these briefing room moments where basically all of the senior cast members are there, the senior crew, and they're talking about the issues going on. They're all giving their feedback.
00:13:06
Speaker
So it was more thought provoking rather than fisticuffs. Yeah, and I imagine that's how a naval ship runs, you know, because you have ah multiple departments on, you know, say an American naval vessel, and you're going to have the heads of those departments meeting for briefings and, and yes you know, giving a you know, ah what's going on all, you know, on all parts of the ship.
00:13:30
Speaker
Yes. Absolutely. Now, that doesn't mean that Picard didn't go and, you know, become Mr. Tough Guy if he'd if he needed to, especially in the movies.
00:13:40
Speaker
yeah If you look at First Contact, he basically is down to his undershirt and he's going running and around going after the Borg Queen to save Data. So, I mean, they still did sacrifice in the 24th century for the like the crew that they loved and cared about.
00:13:53
Speaker
You know, just wasn't you didn't see it as often. you know But he did do that. And then Picard also, he went on the Sona vessel in insurrection and was actually able to stop Ruoffo and stop the Collector from taking the radiation from the planet's rings.
00:14:07
Speaker
you know And he he went and also boarded the Scimitar, a nemesis. He was going to sacrifice his life to destroy Scimitar so that way the Thalor and radiation generator wouldn't you know kill everybody on the Enterprise then go to Earth.
00:14:21
Speaker
So there was, I mean, people still acted... on impulse or through emotion as needed. Now changed a little bit more when the dominion war happened. Cause that's kind of what happened with Cisco. Cisco was a bit a little more fisticuff.
00:14:33
Speaker
I mean, he definitely, he, and enough I think a little more of that had to happen because they were at the edge of the final frontier, literally with deep space nine, they only had that little bit of star fleet for the most part to kind of support them.
00:14:45
Speaker
They're on on board the station. But then as the war happened, things had to get a lot worse. They had to get a little bit more impulsive. There was an episode of in the third season where the Romulans and the Cardassians joined and they were going to destroy the Founders' homeworld.
00:14:59
Speaker
And the ah Federation wanted Sisko to stay at the station to protect Bajor and the wormhole with the defiant. And they went and went into the, into the gamma quadrant anyway, you know? So they broke the, they broke rules there, but they were actually forgiven because they saved some saved Odo or whatever. I can't remember, but, but anyway, also in the pale moonlight, which is considered one of the best episodes from deep space Niles from season six,
00:15:25
Speaker
where Sisko plants evidence to to make it seem like the the Dominion were going against the Romulans, and it it caused the Romulans to come into the war. And Sisko, as a result, has a whole lot of blood on his hands because of that.
00:15:38
Speaker
And he you see at the end of the episode, he's struggling with, can I really accept this or can I not? Now, what really sucks is if they didn't actually follow through on that in the rest of the series, you would think that there would have been some sort of,
00:15:49
Speaker
emotional or like some psychological scarring that came from that and they never followed up but there were still moments what he they back then in that and those in that era were acted on impulse even with the the the founders that disease that they had that it was created by section 31 and starfleet didn't condone it or or not condone but they didn't not condone but They didn't authorize it, right? they didn't Well, Starfleet didn't authorize it, but they didn't say anything about it because they figured, you know, Section 31 did this, but at the same time, we need the founders to die so we can win this war.
00:16:23
Speaker
Yeah, wartime certainly has a way of changing ah someone's ideals. Yep, yep. And you know who actually said that the best? was in If you watch the seventh season episode of Deep Space Nine, The Siege of AR-558, Quark's actually talking to Nog.
00:16:40
Speaker
Basically, he's trying to talk him out of being in Starfleet because of all the the dangers with ah with the war going on. And basically what he told him was is that humans are great people as long as their bellies are full and their holosuites are working.
00:16:52
Speaker
But if you take away the the food and other luxuries that they have, they're just as violent as the most bloodthirsty Klingon. So no matter what, as enlightened as as humanity has become, you have a big threat going on they're going to resort to their roots.
New Generation of Starfleet Captains
00:17:07
Speaker
And we saw a lot of that at those last two seasons of Deep Space Nine. Now, moving on to Captain Janeway, I think she's kind of, for me, she's kind of a little bit of a mix of Kirk and a little bit of Picard.
00:17:21
Speaker
I think for the most part, she she tries to be very cerebral in in her thinking as well and trying to negotiate with different races, things of that nature. But you can see her snap on occasion as well.
00:17:34
Speaker
Do you remember the two-parter Equinox? Vaguely. Okay, so Equinox Part 1 was the fifth season finale of Voyager. And what they do is they the Voyager finds another Federation starship in the Delta Quadrant.
00:17:46
Speaker
And they made it as far as Voyager has, and they didn't understand why. But basically what was happening was the Equinox crew was killing some sort of interdimensional life form and using it as their bodies as fuel to make them go get home faster.
00:18:02
Speaker
And Janeway went... Ape shit, basically. i mean, to the point where she was almost to the point of getting some of the Equinox members crew tortured and killed.
00:18:13
Speaker
Trying to get information to try to contact the aliens. Yeah, I mean, it it was it became an obsession with her in that episode. And that was one one of the few times that you really saw her get that that off the rungs.
00:18:25
Speaker
And she had to be kind of reined in by Chakotay, but it took a long while to do it. So... Again, it's just another example of even though the 24th century focused a lot on more less passion and more thought and and negotiation, still have those moments where you're still going to break and the passion is going to come out.
00:18:44
Speaker
Right, because it comes down to self-preservation and preserving. Sorry, preservation, preserving. Can't think of a different adjective, but we're going to go with it. The way of life that you're used to, the you know the way of life that the Federation holds so dear, you know where they have they have gotten rid of the class system and everybody is essentially on equal footing. Everybody works to achieve a common goal.
00:19:12
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Absolutely. So that's basically, now I didn't, I'm just going to make a little side note here. I didn't include Michael Burnham or Captain Pike, not because I think they're bad characters or bad captains or anything like that. I don't have an issue with them.
00:19:27
Speaker
I just haven't watched enough of discovery and strange new worlds to really give make an opinion. Yeah. Fair. Of their, their character styles. That's all. Yeah. That, no, that's totally fair. and And that's such a odd time period because it you know, it's, it's in between the, you know, the enterprise and the original series, you know, it's,
00:19:53
Speaker
Yeah, and and and we don't have enough, I don't think we have enough material yet for or for Pike. You know, we only have two seasons plus a few episodes of Discovery that he was in, where, you know, we had yeah we had three seasons with Kirk, we had seven with every other captain. Exactly. Except for except for Archer, poor Archer. only got four.
00:20:16
Speaker
But yeah, we just, and and the seasons are shorter so that you don't have as much of a sample to pull from. Exactly. Exactly. yeah Discovery, you just didn't really watch enough of it. And I think that, I don't know if you really can, so I don't know. I have a hard time describing Burnham's style of captaining because it's always the, she's always the, you know, the the key, the savior to everything, right? Superhero Burnham.
00:20:41
Speaker
Mm-hmm. I mean, yeah, I mean, from what I've also heard, she's quite the crier, too. don't know, I don't know. Those are just the things I've read online about Burnham. But i I mean, I've watched some episodes of Discovery, and I don't think, from what I've seen, she seems to be like a capable leader, but I don't i don't know, like, her style with with the crew. I watched more of like, the first two seasons before she was the captain, and then I watched half of season five, and that's about it.
00:21:09
Speaker
So, you know, and... That's about it. And I told, remember just so the the audience out there knows, again, like I've said before, the only reason I don't really care for Discovery and Strange New Worlds, it just pulls me with the the set designs and uniforms and everything. it just doesn't fit for me. So it pulls me out of the story and I can't forget. I arc focus.
00:21:29
Speaker
So that's the only that's the only reason. I have no issues with the characters, the acting, none of that kind of stuff. It's just the continuity stuff plays
Governance: Star Wars Republic vs. Star Trek Federation
00:21:36
Speaker
with my brain. That's just the way my brain's geared. That's all. you've got You've, you've,
00:21:42
Speaker
but I mean, you are just so versed in Trek and the timelines and everything. And, you know, and something like that comes along and really kind of messes with it all. It does. Yeah. your Your brain doesn't know how to, how to organize that.
00:21:55
Speaker
Exactly. That that's all it comes down to. If they were more, if they followed more with like visually and story wise, the way I wish they would, I would have been right on board with them. That's all.
00:22:07
Speaker
So, but that's where I'm at with, with the Starfleet part. do you have any ah extra, any other additional thoughts or. No, I think that was pretty thorough breakdown of, of all the different styles of captaining that you've seen in in Trek and the, and how, you know, regardless of how the captain ah general approach is, they all, you know, it all comes down to, they have, you know, they have to rely sometimes on their base, basest instincts to get the job done to preserve
00:22:38
Speaker
you know the the ideals of the Federation. Absolutely, yes. and it's just And it's interesting to see how in the 200-year period so many different things changed. Going from being green and excited to on and off war in the 23rd century and then going into the 24th where things are much more established until the Dominion comes in and then they have to kind of resettle and kind of relearn things. And then you kind of see a little bit of paranoia come back at the end of the 24th century if you watch Picard because of the attack on Utopia Planitia by the... For sure.
00:23:10
Speaker
Yeah, so I mean, there a little there's an effect again that affects Starfleet in that era as well. I just hope we get to maybe get some more series in that era and see how Starfleet kind of is rebuilding itself after all that.
00:23:23
Speaker
Star Trek Legacy, come on, make it happen to somebody. Yes, please. At least as like they they need to get Terry Metallus back. Oh, of course. i don't think because I wouldn't want that show without him.
00:23:34
Speaker
No, no way. So, but we'll see. let's Fingers crossed. That's all we can do. Putting it out there into the ether. somebody Somebody from Paramount has to be listening to us, right? Mm-hmm.
00:23:45
Speaker
They listen about strange new worlds. Why can't they listen about Legacy? Right, right. You know? So... All right, so why don't we move from the Milky Way galaxy to the Star Wars galaxy and talk a little bit about maybe some of the governance of that galaxy.
00:24:04
Speaker
Yeah, so okay. So I guess we could talk a little bit ah about the Republic. So I'm trying to think of how to really describe them. Obviously, I'm much more well versed with the Federation and what they're all about.
00:24:17
Speaker
it sounds like the Republic is very similar to the Federation in the in the fact that they wanted to keep peace and everybody just be kind of part of one whole. mean, most of the galaxy was under the Republic, if I remember correctly. it wasn't the whole galaxy.
00:24:31
Speaker
Yeah. No, I mean, you had you had the core worlds, you had so you had the um inner rim. Once you kind of got to the outer rim, it was much more likely for planets to not be part of the Republic in the outer rim. They were very sporadically, you know, very sporadic members.
00:24:50
Speaker
Absolutely. I mean, and they had a governing body with the the Galactic Senate, very similar to the Federation Council. Very much. you know you You saw a lot more action inside the you know the Galactic Senate chambers, of course, yeah with the with the politics in Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones. not so much There wasn't so much of the politics in Revenge of the Sith, because by that point, Palpatine had pretty much but fully taken over.
00:25:17
Speaker
Exactly. Yeah. And his role as emperor is totally different than the Federation president. ah Yeah. yeah Can't even compare those ones. All you can do is contrast, you know, but I think for the most part, the Federation and the Republic were very similar. But the problem is the the Republic started becoming very corrupt.
Han Solo & Kirk: Loyalty and Leadership
00:25:35
Speaker
And which Palpatine used to his advantage to be able to to create the Clone War so that he could finally declare himself Emperor. He didn't really have that with the Federation, but you mean you you had your your moments, again, like with the Dominion War we were talking about, and and the Federation was...
00:25:52
Speaker
behind the scenes condoning what Section 31 was doing when they wanted to kill the founders, that virus. you know they and you You know, you had the the Star Trek trope of the bad moral, right? Yes. There would always be the the the the ah Starfleet admiral who was trying to do something against Starfleet or, you know, try to make...
00:26:12
Speaker
gains for himself or in some cases you know we had admirals taken over by alien life forms absolutely absolutely and or you had some that were driven by fear as well you had admiral leighton in that two-part home front episode in season four deep space nine then you had admiral doherty and star trek insurrection you know going against the the federation council or actually the federation council was working with the sona to get that that the radiation from the rings, you know? So you're right. There was, there was another admiral there, even Admiral Ross in the last two seasons of these face line, he had some sort of little involvement with the Romulans. There was an episode called, if i um I can pronounce it correctly, inner arm, arm, I can't remember. It was a Latin name.
00:26:57
Speaker
Yeah, I know the episode that you're talking about. Yeah. Yeah. So, i mean, he was even corrupt to some degree, working with people to disrupt the Romulan government or whatever. So in that time, that there were there were similarities to what was going on in the Republic.
00:27:11
Speaker
Yeah. worked yeah yeah you You just didn't have one grand conductor who was orchestrating it all. Exactly. It was all situational versus plotting. Right. Absolutely. Absolutely.
00:27:22
Speaker
you know And then with the with the Empire, you can't even compare that to the Federation. mean, there was no freedom for anybody but yeah under the Empire's reign. And then the same thing with... Well, the First Order never finally truly came to power, if I remember correctly. They were close.
00:27:38
Speaker
Correct. In Rise of Skywalker. Yes. Yeah. I mean, that was all... Again, that was all part of Palpatine's grand design. That was, you know, his... his the the final order essentially is what he, you know, what the ultimate, you know the, all those star destroyers around in the atmosphere of Exegol.
00:27:57
Speaker
You know, that was, that was the final order. And that would have been, cementing Palpatine as, as, as the, you know, as you know that would have solidified his complete grip on the star Wars galaxy.
00:28:10
Speaker
And he'd been successful. who Absolutely. So it it came just within a hair's reach of conquering. Absolutely. You know? So, yeah, so that's how those were all different, but so the Federation and the Republic were pretty much the same, except for that just the, just the Republic fell to its own corruption and then it was manipulated.
00:28:29
Speaker
Yeah. and turn into something evil now let's talk a little bit about some of the leadership qualities in the star wars universe so han solo definitely comes to mind in terms of the swashbuckling hero mean he he he was different than captain kirk and the fact that he was more about himself initially trying to save his own butt you know he's doing a lot of pirating missions and he was trying to get whatever job he could get so he could get money to to to pay off Jabba the Hutt.
00:29:01
Speaker
But we actually saw that there was a lot of caring and compassion when he ended up meeting Luke and Leia because he came back at the end ah end of the movie and helped destroy the Death Star. So mean there's there's there's a loyalty there that he has to the people under him or or people in in his in his inner circle.
00:29:18
Speaker
And we saw that going on later on throughout the the other movies. So I think yeah he's definitely a lot like Captain Kirk in that way in terms of loyalty. He's also the, he certainly loves the ladies. ah but I don't know if he's banged as many aliens as Captain Kirk has.
00:29:34
Speaker
I don't know. You never know. Probably close. Probably, probably, you know, but I think they're they're very similar in those regards. but I would say Lando has quite a few more then then I would say Lando is far more Kirk-like in his number of women he's been with. Good point. good point you know And I guess now you're bringing up Lando. i mean He has a lot of that that loyalty as well in in terms of caring about the people around him.
00:30:08
Speaker
yeah yeah oh Yeah, for sure. you know he's still a scoundrel, much like Han, and maybe even more of a scoundrel since he was willing to sell them out.
00:30:19
Speaker
But yeah, yeah he he turned out to, much like Han, he turned out to be a good guy in the end because you know the charm of you know, and the, the charm of Leah, you know, obviously I think he was mostly trying to, you know, ingratiate himself with Leah, but I think he realized that, I think once he realized that, that, that she loved Han, you know, i think he gave up on that and and just stayed along for, you know, because he did, you know, they, they, they encouraged him to believe in something.
00:30:53
Speaker
Absolutely. Absolutely. Now, here's another similarity but with Han and with Kirk. I just kind of thought about it. When there were changes in their lives or in their careers, they went back to what they knew.
00:31:06
Speaker
Think about it like it with with Han. like He and Leia got married. They had Ben. And Ben turned into Kylo Ren and that kind of damaged their relationship. So what did he end up doing? Going back into pirating with Chewbacca, like he had done all those years before.
00:31:23
Speaker
It's kind of like that with Kirk as well. If you watch Generations, they actually talk about how Kirk retired from Starfleet sometime after the motion picture. yeah And then he left Antonia, his fiance, to go back and rejoin Starfleet, which would have been right before Wrath of Khan.
00:31:39
Speaker
So there were these changes in their lives and they all both went back to what they, they knew essentially, you know, and that how many years were in between the motion picture and the wrath of con.
00:31:53
Speaker
So motion picture was in 2271. And if I remember correctly, the wrath of con was in 2285. So 14 years, 15 years. Okay.
00:32:05
Speaker
I wonder at what point did Ben kind of break bad. Probably around the same age. Maybe. Maybe. Huh. Yeah, they they never really clarified that in in the sequels, did they?
00:32:18
Speaker
and Not in the sequels. I'm sure i'm sure it's in the the books or the comics, though. I mean, he had to have been a super young adult because we saw in Last Jedi, he was at the the temple there.
00:32:30
Speaker
So he had to have been, ah I would say, probably at least 20 or 21, maybe, at the most. Let's see. Oh, you're looking it up. I am looking it up. I know this is stunning content here, right?
00:32:44
Speaker
So Ben was 23 years old when he became Kylo Ren. 23. Okay, we were close. He looked a lot younger, though, at Luke's temple.
00:32:56
Speaker
who So I wonder if but you know that was just his for the start of his fall to the dark side, but he may not have become Kylo Ren at whatever age he was when he left the temple or destroyed the temple rather not, not left destroyed the temple.
00:33:14
Speaker
Yes. can't, I can't recall. Maybe. Yeah. He looked younger than 23, didn't he? Absolutely. I would have thought anywhere between 18 and 21. Yeah. See, I was thinking like 16 to 18. Huh?
Luke Skywalker & Leia: Inspirational Leadership
00:33:26
Speaker
Well, the internet says 23. So. Okay. We'll take it. We were close enough. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, it's similar, similar period of time.
00:33:37
Speaker
Yeah. yeah It was just for different reasons why they went back into what they did. Yeah. You know, I don't think Kirk could ever, any woman could ever compete with the enterprise and with Starfleet for Kirk.
00:33:50
Speaker
That, that was just his life, you know, and as much as he tried to be a civilian, it's, it just couldn't work out. You see a lot of that with people in the military today, you know? Yeah.
00:34:01
Speaker
Yeah, it's hard once they leave military life to, you know, to acclimate to civil life. It's so many, so many of our service members struggle with that on the daily on a daily basis.
00:34:15
Speaker
Absolutely. You know, it's it's even worse if they have trouble finding employment that, you know, uses their skill set. who Absolutely. And then if you look back with Han and Leia breaking up after what happened with Ben, I mean, they essentially they lost a child.
00:34:33
Speaker
So there was all that grief going on. and A lot of times when people a married couple lose their child, they they start to turn on each other and then they end up splitting up because they can't deal with the grief.
00:34:45
Speaker
You know, and that's essentially what kind of happened with them. Leia went back it with but worked with the resistance while Han went off back into pirating again and they only just kind of reunited under different random circumstances in the Force Awakens.
00:34:59
Speaker
You know, it would have been interesting to see if they would have reunited or not if Han had stayed alive. But I guess that wasn't meant to be. I mean, guess even Picard was pulled back into Starfleet. You know, he, he had, know, from watching Picard, you know, he had started to settle down, but the, the first season of Picard is, you know, that's what draws him back in. And he leaves the life that he, know, had been, you know, at, you at Chateau Picard and, and I can't think of her name.
00:35:32
Speaker
Laris. Laris. Yes. Yeah. He had settled down with Laris and, Yeah, but he got pulled back in. Just like Kurt. Just like Han. That's a very good point that you made. Very good point.
00:35:44
Speaker
It all ties together. It does. All right. So we talked about Han. Let's move on to Luke. Now, i off screen here, I had to ask you a little bit about what you thought Luke's style was, because i couldn't I could not put it into words. Yeah.
00:36:02
Speaker
You know, because it what he didn't necessarily lead the the rebels. He was a leader, but he wasn't like the lead. He didn't command a ship or anything. I mean, he had his own X-wing, so I couldn't really piece together his style. But you you said it very well in a memo to me.
00:36:18
Speaker
What was that? I can't remember. Oh, let me see. I can't remember exactly what I said either. All right. so he he's he he's an inspirational leader. He's empathetic.
00:36:31
Speaker
He empowers others under his command, right? he He is not the kind of leader who has to micromanage everything, who has to give orders and expect his orders to be followed.
00:36:43
Speaker
you know He encourages the you know the the folks under his command. yeah Because if you look at you know if you look at the the mission on he was he was rogue leader in that, you know, right. Or was a wedge. Rogueli wedge was rogue leader. Wasn't yes.
00:37:03
Speaker
who Yeah, that's right. Nevermind. Red wedge was rogue leader. So, at what point did Luke really x show leadership in, in the films, right?
00:37:16
Speaker
He very seldom shows leadership in the films. You'd have to rely on the now decanonized legends to really get a better idea of Luke's leadership style because you know, he essentially disappeared after what happened you know After Kylo Ren destroyed the temple and you know and in the in the canon as it stands now, he disappeared. He he made himself a hermit. So, yeah, his his leadership style in in the new canon really has never been established.
00:37:50
Speaker
Exactly. I mean, i really, if you could only think about it, maybe in The Mandalorian when he was training Grogu. yeah but Yeah, I mean, yeah we yeah we we just haven't seen enough of Luke training anybody to see, you know, yeah we we saw him training Grogu using a lot of the techniques that Yoda used. We see him teaching Rey with a lot of the techniques that Yoda taught him. So really, Luke just essentially trained the way that he was trained by Yoda and you know for both
00:38:27
Speaker
You know, both Grogu and... Who else did he train? i Well, I mean, I guess we didn't really... We've never really seen him training at the Jedi Temple with Kylo Ren, so we don't know what his training was like in the temple in canon sources either.
00:38:42
Speaker
Right, and really, if I remember correctly, wasn't the temple just starting to be built during the Mandalorian when he took Grogu on his... his student? I believe so, yeah. I don't think i don't even know if he he had settled on a location for the temple when he trained Grogu.
00:38:58
Speaker
Okay. I know that there were robot like there were droids building something. I assumed that that was the temple. I think was was it was during season three? Yeah. and Yeah, we only got that one episode. or Yeah, yeah, we only got that one episode, right? Right, yeah. and My whole point is is just that really there was no temple yet, so that was the only individual he was training, so we didn't get to see a whole lot.
00:39:22
Speaker
It was basically, like you said, just a continuation of what Yoda did with him. Right, right. yeah luke Yeah, we've not seen Luke develop his own leadership style in the new canon. You know what I was thinking? Why don't we put this out as a question to the audience? Yeah.
00:39:35
Speaker
If they watch, listen to the episode, let's get their feedback on what they think Luke's style of leadership is. That'll be interesting to see. Yeah, I think that's a great idea. And I think there will be a lot of people who were into the Legends material far more than you and I were who could really expand on Luke's leadership style.
00:39:57
Speaker
know, we'd have to look. Yeah, you'd have to look at. essentially what, you know, his new Jedi order books too to really determine his leadership style. And that is one book series that I just never got around to.
00:40:09
Speaker
um I gotcha. I gotcha. So yeah, it'll be interesting to get that audience interaction about that and give us a chance to think about it. Maybe even in our next episode, we can have a break. If we get enough people that actually talk about that, maybe we can have a little discussion between you and I about it.
00:40:25
Speaker
Yeah, I think that'd be great. Mm-hmm. Okay, so who else do we want to talk about since we really kind of dropped the ball with Luke and didn't really have much to contribute to the conversation. i I was like, with yeah, with Luke, i I was surprised. I thought you'd have more thought on that, but it was like, you're right. It was like you you watch him and it it was more like he was the one being a led rather than like the main like leader. He was the main hero of the stories, but in a different way.
00:40:53
Speaker
Yeah. You know, he was for so much of it. He was kind of on his own. He was yeah rarely seen leading other people. He was on a lot of solo missions. so The one exception being the the mission on the forest moon of Endor to try to take that, take out the shield generator.
00:41:11
Speaker
But then, you know, of course, Luke eventually gets separated from ah and everybody. He, you know, he turns himself in and ultimately, but yeah, so he kind of has his own mission once he realizes that Vader's there.
00:41:24
Speaker
Exactly. Exactly. But now somebody who I think really truly was a leader was Leia. Oh, for sure. I mean, i mean she was no nonsense. She cared about the people under her command very much, so valued life. We saw that, especially in The in the Last Jedi.
00:41:41
Speaker
We saw when she was angry and slapped Poe in the face because he broke orders. And even though there was a success with the Dreadnought being destroyed, there was a lot of life that was lost. And you could just see the sorrow in her face. you Remember when they had the screen and and the the red X-Wing lights were flashing?
00:41:56
Speaker
Mm-hmm. You know, and so she had a strong love and loyalty toward the people that she led and didn't take it lightly in any way, shape or form. She reminds me a lot also of Kirk. And I guess you could say Cisco in a way in the fact that they did they were they were no nonsense.
00:42:15
Speaker
You know, Picard got slapped down a couple of times by people. Janeway, Janeway, not so much. I mean, you can see kind of Leia in Janeway as well. And the fact that she was a strong leader, she cared about the people under her.
00:42:29
Speaker
And guess, I guess really that's kind of where it goes, unless you see other, some other similarities. But I think in terms of her passion and her fire and her new nonsense, she definitely mirrors Kirk and Cisco.
00:42:41
Speaker
Oh, for sure. Yeah. And she is able to, you know, to evoke the passion that both of those captains did. But at the same time, she's able to make difficult decisions.
00:42:55
Speaker
You know, she, you know, with, with what she planned with, with, with vice Admiral Holdo, you know, that was a very difficult decision that Leah had to be part of.
00:43:08
Speaker
Yes. Absolutely. She had to come up with that contingency. Absolutely. And can you imagine what was going through her mind knowing that she was going to survive while her friend was sacrificing her? you know there they could ah I mean, they never showed it or anything, but I mean, there could have been some survivor's guilt that went on along there too. She could have easily said, why not? Why her and not me?
00:43:29
Speaker
you know Why wasn't I the one making the sacrifice? But I guess maybe Holdo felt that Leia was too important to the leading the resistance that That's why she made that choice to sacrifice herself.
00:43:41
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I would i think that Holdo knew that Leia had been able, you know, that Leia was tapped into the Force more so than Holdo was. So I think Holdo realized that that was more important that Leia survive.
00:43:59
Speaker
So that, you know, the that her leadership through the Force could be, continue to be a rallying cry for the you know for the, ah for the resistance.
Poe's Redemption Arc & Star Trek Comparisons
00:44:10
Speaker
Absolutely. i mean, she's got, I mean, I think, if I don't know if we got a whole lot of Holdo's backstory, but i don't even know if she was involved in the original rebellion and against the empire where Leia was a leader with that and brought that into the resistance against the first order. So again, maybe that, that leadership style, she probably felt was more important.
00:44:30
Speaker
Yeah. And that needed to preserved. I know that the, there was a book, Leia, Princess of Alderaan. And i but it was Leia at the age of 16.
00:44:41
Speaker
And Holdo, Amalyn Holdo was her best friend because they were both from, they're both from Alderaan. Oh, okay. Okay. I believe, or, ah or maybe they just met and became friends. I do. It's been a while since I remembered or since I read the book. So I can't remember.
00:44:58
Speaker
um But yeah, so yeah, but it, yeah, it's Leah and Holdo as teenagers. And I do believe that the main storyline in the book does have a mission where she's doing something for the rebellion with, with Holdo.
00:45:16
Speaker
Oh, okay. Okay. So once again, it's not, it was never in onscreen material, but it was, you know, her character has been fleshed out in books. Okay.
00:45:27
Speaker
That makes sense. That makes sense. Yeah. And I felt the fans didn't really give hold a a whole lot of respect in terms of her character. I mean, her character literally sacrificed herself to save the entire, whatever was left of the resistance, you know, it wasn't some arrogant kind of thing that she did. I mean,
00:45:45
Speaker
and you You even see after they they evacuate the the main ship and the ships are flying toward Crait. She said, I forget what she said, but like Godspeed.
00:45:56
Speaker
Godspeed rebels. Godspeed rebels. There you go. You know, so there was that that compassion right there, you know, and and but I think some people kind of made it out to be like it was she was just a bad character. And I don't think so. I think she was very heroic and likable, actually. Yeah.
00:46:14
Speaker
I mean, it's hard to give characters like that a full arc, you know, in when, you know, when she, you know, when everything with her is just one of four plot lines in the whole movie, right? You know, you've got, you've got so many different plot lines in that movie. It's hard to build a character like her on screen. You have to build her out and flesh her out in other materials. Right.
00:46:42
Speaker
I mean, I would love to see like a, a teenage Leia and teenage Holdo something, right? Because, you know, we saw in Kenobi, we had ah the little girl from Kenobi that played Leia. She, ah she would be old enough now to play a 16 year old Leia. So, I mean, it's right there. You have, you have somebody, you have an actress who I swear she is the embodiment of Carrie Fisher. Yeah.
00:47:13
Speaker
and In pint-sized form, right? Yes. exactly Yeah, that little girl did an amazing job. Yeah. i think Yeah. Yeah, I mean, the the opportunity is there to give us more Leia stories, and maybe, maybe, just maybe, we'll get some sort of announcement of of the series continuing, or you or at least the character reappearing in something. That would and would be okay. Yeah, why not?
00:47:41
Speaker
Leia, Star Wars story. There you go. Yeah. I mean, even, I don't know if we need a movie. I think even like ah a limited series, like a six episode or eight episode series, it would work.
00:47:52
Speaker
Yeah. To get a history. Why not? Yeah. You know? Yeah. Take advantage of the girl while you got her. Exactly. While she's the right age. Exactly. Disney Lucasfilm. There's an idea. Yeah.
00:48:04
Speaker
Yeah, like they haven't already thought of that, I'm sure, Chris. I'm sure they figured out a way they they would love to bring her back because she was just, that little girl was top notch yeah in that movie. for sure. You know? So who else would be a good leader in the Star Wars universe? What about Poe?
00:48:20
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, Poe is certainly a a very brash individual. You know, he is very impulsive, right? hoki He does think outside of the box when it comes to solutions for a problem, but he also goes rogue far more often than I'm sure General Leia would like him to.
00:48:44
Speaker
But you know what? He is a hell of a pilot, right? As Ben said ah on a couple times a couple occasions. who Absolutely. i think that you know the the fact that Poe was his as adept at being a pilot as he was, he was more likely to take chances and and take stupid risks.
00:49:02
Speaker
who Absolutely. I agree. So obviously, i but do you I can see a lot of parallels in terms of like the the passion and some of the impulsivity of Kirk.
00:49:14
Speaker
But I'm also wondering if he's got some similarity to Tom Paris. Hmm. Because if you think about Tom Paris, well, he he was the son of it of basically you can kind of call it Starfleet royalty. His dad was ah an admiral and always looked down and was very hard on him about his lifestyle.
00:49:32
Speaker
And I guess and you would think about it Tom kind of felt like he had to compete with his dad because he was the next generation in their family. And he got himself into trouble. He disobeyed orders.
00:49:43
Speaker
During a mission, he got himself sent to that New Zealand penal colony. and And he was a good pilot. And that's why he beat when he they got lost in the Delta Quadrant, Janeway made him the the commanding officer. But there were times that even in that first season that Tom was kind of impulsive with with some of the things that he said and and had done.
00:50:02
Speaker
Maybe not to the extreme of Poe, where he was like stealing a shuttle and going off and doing his own thing. you know But I think I see a little bit of similarity there. Just a bit. Yeah, and I would think that if if the Resistance had been a far bigger organization, ah would have been sidelined but for his actions in The Last Jedi. But ah you know they couldn't afford, because, you know and and and directly because of his actions,
00:50:30
Speaker
You know, they lost several. They lost several pilots. They lost several members of the resistance. So, exactly you know, whatever punishment that they could have slapped him with was impossible to enforce because every man with every single body in the resistance was necessary.
00:50:48
Speaker
Exactly. Exactly. And also, Poe's got a shady pass, too.
Podcast Evolution & Future Exploration
00:50:53
Speaker
You know, we just thought of him as this resistance fighter in in the first two sequels, but then we find out in The Rise of Skywalker, he was a spice runner.
00:51:00
Speaker
Mm-hmm. You know, and that that is a crime in the Star Wars universe, right? Very much is. Okay. And I'm trying to think how he got to that point. Mm-hmm.
00:51:11
Speaker
But he got redeemed. Yeah, of course. Like Tom Harris did. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I think that I'm trying to think of the spice running was if he was legitimately doing that or if that was some sort of mission he was on, like an undercover mission. I don't know.
00:51:29
Speaker
That's another one. That's another good question. Pull out your Wikipedia. See if you can find out. Right.
00:51:36
Speaker
Live Googling on the Captain's Logs and Lightsabers podcast. I love it. I think it's great because I love the free flowing that we have with our discussions. It brings up things that we're like, whoa, I didn't think that.
00:51:46
Speaker
We didn't think it. Let's see. So he was the spice runner of Kajimi. Let's see. So how did Poe?
00:51:58
Speaker
All right. So really we didn't have, okay. So looks like there were some comics that have featured the spice runners.
00:52:10
Speaker
Oh, there was a Poe Dameron book and, and, and, sub and of course an audio book called Poe Dameron free fall. That might have how he got involved with them.
00:52:21
Speaker
That is definitely not one that I've read. So, ah Maybe I'll try to find it from my local library and and listen to the audio form. There you go. All right. Now i've I've got my own research to do, I guess.
00:52:34
Speaker
There you go. Awesome. Awesome. So I would say those were the big four main leaders. in the In the Star Wars universe, in terms of like militaristic stuff, if in comparing it to Star Trek, everybody else is more like, you know, on the Jedi Council, Jedi Masters, or they were Darth Vader. I can't imagine a Darth Vader equivalent or a General Grievous.
00:52:56
Speaker
equivalent Unless you want to talk about the Diviner and Star Trek Prodigy, and you know, and is as that the Dreadnought droid? Yes. yeah Yeah. That kind of stuff. But I mean, I'm always I'm always game to talk about Prodigy, but I don't think it applies here.
00:53:11
Speaker
Not here. No, we're talking about more about the leadership. Absolutely. You know, but other than that, I think in terms of the positive leadership, I think we covered the main four. Yeah, this was a ah really fun discussion. I really had a ah blast.
00:53:24
Speaker
You know, you you kind of had a basic outline, a basic structure. And as as we're often doing, we kind of tangent into a bunch of different directions and end up coming up with some pretty good content, I think.
00:53:39
Speaker
Absolutely. Like, I think with, in terms of prepping for episodes, it's one thing to have like an outline, but I think it's more fun and more creative to kind of free flow. The kind of stuff. And then you realize, like when I did my research for this episode, I didn't think of Tom Paris and thinking and tying him to Poe. And it's just like, while we were talking, just like hit, you know? And so it's amazing where the discussions can take you with things. Yeah, for Yeah. And and this is this this kind of shows how much we've grown as a podcast too, because those early episodes where we did the compare and contrast were much more scripted, much more. Very.
00:54:16
Speaker
Very, very scripted, you know, just because, you know, we were both so new to podcasting. I kind of wanted to, I, you know, I, I wanted to have a lot more of an outline and until yeah both of us got more comfortable just playing off each other like this. Absolutely.
00:54:33
Speaker
Absolutely. So if you want to listen to some real messy episodes, go back to our first five or six episodes and and then listen to this one again and tell us what you think. Tell us if yeah um how far we've come as as a podcast.
00:54:49
Speaker
Yeah, I think we're definitely much more comfortable with talking about our knowledge of our our of our certain fandoms. Me would track you with wars, you know, instead of it being like, well, we better write down every single thing that we, we you know, i think we we just trust our instincts.
00:55:04
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And it's it's definitely given us our own unique style. um But yeah, i wouldn't I wouldn't change it for anything, though.
00:55:15
Speaker
Heck no. Heck no. This is a blast. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm looking forward to more of these types of discussions using our using chat GPT. I have no shame in admitting that we used it to to kind of brainstorm some ideas.
00:55:30
Speaker
But, you know, as far as the general topic, that's all we used it for. Everything else was either, you know, partially laid out by Chris or spur the moment discussion. So.
00:55:42
Speaker
Absolutely. Absolutely. And also if anybody, if don't ever worry about using chat GPT, cause I guarantee you a lot of other podcasters do as well. I thought this was a fun discussion. I love it. It was fun getting back into comparing the two, the two franchises again. And I want us to do a little bit more of that in the future, if at all possible. i think you said you have an idea for a show next time that,
00:56:03
Speaker
is going to do that, but just in a different kind of way. Yeah. Yeah. I definitely have some ideas that we're going to workshop and and work on for a little bit. I don't know if I'll have it done by our next episode. We may have to do a topic that's a little less...
00:56:20
Speaker
you know a little less lofty first to give me time to plan it out. But yeah, but yeah, you can definitely expect that our next episode will be a little, you know, return to the compare and contrast style, but with a different topic. So exactly. Yeah. We, we, we don't know what that topic will be for the next one, but we are looking forward to bringing it to you, whatever it may be.
00:56:42
Speaker
absolutely. Until next time, this was episode 40 of Captain's Logs and Lightsabers. May the Force be with you. And live long prosper.