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CLL #41 - Cultural Comparisons
32 Plays1 month ago
In this episode, Jonathan and Chris share their exciting plans and experiences. Jonathan and Chris recently attended the 20th-anniversary screening of “Revenge of the Sith.” Jonathan is currently engrossed in games like “South of Midnight” and “Clair Obscur Expedition 33” on Gamepass. He and his wife are eagerly anticipating a summer filled with concerts and theatrical performances. On the other hand, Chris has been at the Toypalooza convention and is preparing for the Shore Leave convention in Lancaster, PA, with his wife this summer. Jonathan and Chris then engage in a discussion about the exceptional second season of Andor. Our Feature Discussion delves into the captivating comparison of Star Trek and Star Wars organizations and ideologies, exploring themes such as the Klingons versus the Mandalorians and The Borg versus the First Order.
0:00 Introduction
1:55 Fandom Frontier
13:45 Summer Plans
19:15 Andor Season 2
42:10 Feature Discussion
1:15:00 Wrap-Up & Outro
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Transcript
00:00:01
Speaker
Free audio post-production.
Introduction to 'Captain's Logs and Lightsabers'
00:00:04
Speaker
By alphonic.com Captain's log. cons solo I'm Captain Millennium Falcon. This is Captain Jean-Luc Picard of the Federation Starship Enterprise.
00:00:25
Speaker
Priority One message from Starfleet coming in on secure channel.
00:00:33
Speaker
You're listening to Captain's Logs and Lightsabers.
Episode 41: Star Trek and Star Wars Discussion
00:00:41
Speaker
Hey, welcome to episode 41 of Captain's Logs and Lightsabers. We are the podcast with Feast of Fandoms that discusses both Star Trek and Star Wars in the same
Hosts Catch-Up and Feast of Fandoms
00:00:52
Speaker
show. My name is Jonathan. I am but one of the two hosts of this show. So let me kick it to my co-host, Chris.
00:00:59
Speaker
How's it going, man? I'm good, Jonathan. it's good to hear or see you How you doing? Oh, hey, you know, hanging in there, I've... I know we haven't recorded in a while, but I know I've been busy creating all kinds of content for Feast of Fandoms over the past several months. And, um,
00:01:16
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's been ah it's been a fun ride, and i'm I'm glad that we finally found the time to get back together and and have a chat and record an episode together. Absolutely, and I think we have a pretty good discussion planned for today, definitely.
00:01:29
Speaker
I agree.
Fandom Frontier: Non-Episode Activities
00:01:30
Speaker
So that's a little bit of a teaser, but before we get into our main topic, we are going to return to our fandom frontier segment where Chris and I get to talk about something that we did outside of Star Trek and Star Wars or tangentially related to Star Wars that isn't really directly related to our episode, but it's something that we like
20th Anniversary of Star Wars Episode III
00:01:52
Speaker
to share.
00:01:52
Speaker
So Chris, what was your fandom frontier for this one? Oh, so, well, ah I think many people did this. You and I definitely did. We went and saw Star Wars Episode III on the big screen for the 20th anniversary, which was a lot of fun. You can't beat Star Wars on a big screen. It's nothing better than that.
00:02:11
Speaker
You know, and I had had a good time with that. Got a collectible cup for it and actually got the Bucket the the popcorn bucket but this one was of of Darth Vader the actual helmet and it actually makes noises which is really cool so that's sweet yeah so that was a fun little collectibles it was pricey but it was it was worth it because once it's gone it's gone right right me yeah I remember oh I'm sorry oh no that's it just I was just saying this you know so it was just nice to to collect it while I had the opportunity Yeah, yeah. I remember, well, it's now been almost six years since The Rise of Skywalker hit theaters. And I remember that was kind of the the start of the whole popcorn bucket at the movies craze.
00:02:53
Speaker
Because I remember they had a giant R2-D2 popcorn bucket that, you know, of course I had to ask. so Oh, absolutely. Yeah. yeah They're getting very creative with these things now. I got a nice one from Cinemark for Slimer from when ah the fourth Ghostbusters came out.
00:03:09
Speaker
Got a couple of the Star Wars ones that you talk about. ah But these things are like really like popular now. It's an art of belief that people love these popcorn buckets, but they're and they're creative.
00:03:20
Speaker
yeah yeah it it's you know what it's one of those things that we can kind of credit to disney parks for popularizing the the popcorn bucket culture at disney is actually more intense and more there are a lot more collectors in in disney fandom that you know that they'll they'll buy every popcorn bucket that has been released i mean If you can think of a Disney movie or Disney character, it's probably been made into a popcorn bucket already and sold at the
Disney's Influence on Collectibles
00:03:51
Speaker
parks.
00:03:51
Speaker
Oh, I believe it. So Disney's the one that we could credit for all this. I just, yeah, the regular like movie theater competition thing. Nope. Nope. Imitation is the highest form of flattery, my man.
00:04:02
Speaker
Nice. Very nice. So, so yeah. So you and your wife went to go see it too, right? We did. We did. And yeah, it's, you and I were talking right before we hit record about how that kind of, you know, around that time of year was the time that ah you and my wife were graduating from college and I was still,
00:04:21
Speaker
I still had over a year left because I'm a little younger than you guys, but just recalling that that time in our lives and, and you know, having the having that you know having having the opportunity to see Revenge of the Sith on the big screen kind of just enhances that memory and and really makes you nostalgic for that time period.
00:04:42
Speaker
he Absolutely. You the only thing that was missing is we couldn't go to Burger King afterward and get some Star Wars toys. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You know, like the, I can't recall the last like fast food premium items that Star Wars offered from all any kind of fast food restaurant. It's, it's been a while, hasn't it?
00:05:03
Speaker
It has. I think Rise of Skywalker, when they had the, those little like character clips or Rise of Skywalker, I think that was the last one. Yeah. And that's been six years. Yes.
00:05:14
Speaker
who Yeah. So, yeah, was I think it's time McDonald's, if you know, try to get some sort of Star Wars thing back, even if it's something generic. mean, they do that with Barbie and Hot Wheels. Why not do it with Star Wars? You know? Yeah.
00:05:25
Speaker
You know, if they did it like a ah glass set, a collectible glass set like they used to do, you know how many people would probably buy those? Oh yeah, those would be sucked up. yeah Even just like, that if you watch stuff on Facebook, sometimes they show some of the old cup premiums and things that they used to do, not just with Star Wars, but like with Thundercats and things.
Nostalgia and Modern Fandoms
00:05:44
Speaker
You know, that stuff, like if they tapped into that nostalgia, I think definitely they would they would make bank on a lot this stuff. Seriously. Yeah, I mean, you have that the adult Happy Meal that has been pretty popular.
00:05:58
Speaker
and And I know that McDonald's says you know, they've... They've done that on on numerous occasions for different franchises. I know that, you know, they they've had what? I can't even remember it.
00:06:11
Speaker
All the different adult Happy Meals that they've had. Yeah. yeah So they had the ones with those four eyed characters. Those were weird. those, but they also had the McNugget buddies come back two years ago.
00:06:24
Speaker
Those were popular. Those were super popular. Right. And they've been doing the Halloween buckets again. i know that's not really a, it wasn't a, an adult happy meal promotion, but I know those have been really popular.
00:06:35
Speaker
Yeah. I, I, I can't imagine that like a collectible glass set and I, and an adult happy meal would probably make McDonald's a ton of money. Oh, absolutely. You know, so who knows? I mean, even if the Pizza Hut started doing stuff again, you know, that might help boost their business a little bit.
00:06:52
Speaker
Get some people back in. I think Pizza Hut needs to focus on making their pizza taste better than trying to get people in the door with gimmicky promotions. Yeah. Oh, yeah. They need to get back to what we had when we used to have book it and all that kind of good stuff.
00:07:06
Speaker
Now, you still have book it. That's but yeah yeah yeah, the food's not the same. No, you're absolutely right. or Or are we thinking through rose colored glasses? I'm not entirely sure.
00:07:17
Speaker
I don't know. Well, I remember going and that was like but back it when we were kids going to Pizza Hut was like the biggest like one of the biggest things that you could do on a Friday night. The sauce is so much better. I mean, i it's just now I think they went just they went cheap and then they went and just got like generic sauce thinking they could just pass it off. But you don't see many people in a Pizza Hut anymore.
00:07:38
Speaker
Right. Right. Yeah. I i haven't. I can't. I mean, I can't even tell you the last time I had a good Pizza Hut pizza. It's Yeah. I mean, I remember, don't you remember but back when episode one first came out and they had the three store promo?
00:07:54
Speaker
Each store was a different planet from from the movie. Uh-huh. Yes. they need if that People could do stuff like that again. I think that would just obviously tap into the nostalgia for all of us, but also bring some kids in and they might want some of this stuff.
00:08:08
Speaker
It's just, don't know. It's just nostalgia with our generation seems to be super big. Oh, for certain. yeah i think that's Yeah. I think that's why people love going to all these toy shows and stuff in our generation now because of it.
00:08:20
Speaker
Well, yeah. I mean, it, won't it reminds us when things were much simpler, right? Exactly. You know, when we weren't burdened by everything going on in the world, regardless of what side you you know, what regardless of where you stand on the the situation in the world today, things were,
00:08:42
Speaker
better because we didn't have that burden. Absolutely. were When we were kids and in college. Absolutely. 100% agreed. Speaking of that, that was another thing I did a few weeks ago is, you know what Toypalooza is?
00:08:57
Speaker
Yeah, I've heard of it. i'm I'm not, I mean, I've never been, but Yeah, so there was ah it was a nice big toy show that was out at some AGH sports complex or something out on Cool Springs Road somewhere near Pittsburgh.
00:09:11
Speaker
It was huge. And the only problem with it was the lighting was really bad, so it was kind of hard to... and navigate through, but it was fun getting some toys. I got some old Batman forever and Batman Robin collectible action figures, really cheap.
00:09:24
Speaker
Got some old, uh, revenge of the sis star Wars figures, couple loose star Trek figures. So it was really nice. And they're going to have another one this September. And actually I have the flyer right next to me.
00:09:35
Speaker
So it's going to be September 20th of this year, but it's moving to the Monroeville convention center. So that'll be really nice. Nice. Yeah. That'll be a much better venue for them. Yeah, much brighter, much bigger. So it'll probably be even a lot more vendors, things like that. So that'll be great.
00:09:50
Speaker
But other than that, I don't think I've geeked any other way.
Jonathan's Return to Gaming
00:09:53
Speaker
How about you? Well, i I have actually found my way into ah video gaming again for a little at least a little while. Yeah.
00:10:03
Speaker
I just got the urge to get back into gaming and and to try a few new things that had been released. i'm um I'm primarily an Xbox gamer, even though I have a PlayStation 5. I haven't played it in a while, but I've been really into trying a lot of the games that come to Microsoft Game Pass, which is kind of like...
00:10:24
Speaker
It's kind of like a Netflix service where you stream video games. You never you don't own them. you don't have yeah You don't own the game. So if they disappear from the service, you either have to buy it, usually at a discount, or finish the game before it disappears.
00:10:41
Speaker
So... Basically, this service has over 100 games at any one time that you can play, and they're constantly releasing new stuff. So recently, I played through and finished a game called South of Midnight. It's a dark fantasy fairy tale set around Cajun culture and and Cajun myths. and And it was just a really cool, really cool story tying back to how you know how people in that area...
00:11:13
Speaker
you know came to be. There's some connections with helping former slaves get out of the area. it's and and it i don't know how to describe it. Like I said, it's a dark fantasy fairy tale set around Deep South and Cajun culture. And it was just a lot of fun. And I really, really enjoyed the story.
00:11:35
Speaker
Very fantastical, but very fun at the same time. I've also dabbled with a ah new RPG that came out from this brand new studio. It's called Claire Obscure Expedition 33. It's a turn-based role-playing game, which is something that I've been into for quite some time ever since discovering Final Fantasy like almost 30 years ago.
00:11:58
Speaker
So I really got into that genre, and this is One of those type of games where, you know, when your when it's your turn to attack the enemy, and the action pauses and it gives you time to select your action, whether that's an attack, a spell, a defense, you know, something like that.
00:12:17
Speaker
But there's also real time elements that, you know, when you use one of your abilities, you might be able to do extra damage by timing your button press, us you know, within a specific window, or you might be able to lessen the damage that an enemy attack does to you by, you know,
00:12:33
Speaker
pressing a button prompt at a specific time so that you can like block or parry or whatever, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's a style of RPG that I've been a fan of for quite a while. And I'm glad to see that there's this modern take on, on that type.
00:12:51
Speaker
And yeah, it's, it's, I'm very, very, I'm very, very close to the beginning of the game, so haven't really explored it too much. But yeah, it's it's it's a good one. So if RPGs are your thing, definitely check out Claire Obscure.
00:13:05
Speaker
And if you like third-person action games, ah dark fantasies, South of Midnight is is the one for you. So that's
Summer Activities and Community Involvement
00:13:13
Speaker
that's basically been my fandom frontier for the past several weeks.
00:13:17
Speaker
Very nice. ah Do you have any activities coming up that you're aware of? Can't think of anything nerdy that we're doing in the next couple months specifically. I mean, different things that, you know, different non-nerdy pursuits. Like, you know, we plan to go to a couple of trivia nights and some concerts and some some Broadway shows.
00:13:36
Speaker
Or, well, some local theater troops performing Broadway shows. We're going to be doing that over the course of June and July. Oh, very nice. So you got a good planned summer coming up.
00:13:49
Speaker
Yeah, we do. It's that's yeah like to stay busy. I mean, even though we'll be we'll be working this summer for for the first time in a couple of years, we actually are are not laid off in the summer. So we're going to have less time, but we don't have to worry about not making as much money because we're actually, you know, maintaining our full time job throughout the summer.
00:14:10
Speaker
Oh, that's good. That's good. ah The one thing I do have coming up in, ah i think, two weeks is Three Rivers Comic Con in down in Pittsburgh at the David L. Lawrence Convention Center.
00:14:21
Speaker
My Star Trek club from Starfleet International, the USS Stella Parada. We're going to have a table there. We're going to be recruiting new crew members, but we're also going to be doing a game for charity. we there's the the game or i'm sorry The charity of choice for the convention is Extra Life, and they earn money for kids and who are in the hospital with cancer.
00:14:40
Speaker
So we're going to be doing our annual full weekend down there. So if anybody in the Pittsburgh area wants to come down, say hi to the crew, feel free to come down, play some games, win some Star Trek prizes and have a good time.
00:14:53
Speaker
Very nice. Yeah. Yeah. That extra life foundation is a really good charity. I know it it was so it was founded by gamers, I believe. Yes. I think part of what they do is they get video game systems for kids who are stuck in the hospitals with their treatment, gives them something to do, something to feel good about.
00:15:09
Speaker
Yeah, just something to distract them from the the trauma of going through cancer treatments or other life-threatening conditions. Absolutely. Absolutely. So that's good. And then don't know if you read on Facebook or not, but Brandy, my wife and we're finalizing plans to go to Shore Leave, the Star Trek convention. It's fan run. It's been going on since the And this is the 45th edition it.
00:15:33
Speaker
ah when not Yeah. So we've, we've never been to it and it moved there from Maryland to Lancaster. So we're finalizing details to see if we can actually go. And that's July 11th through the 13th. So if i we end up going as something, maybe I could talk to you guys about on future show.
00:15:47
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. I've, I've heard of shore leave actually. I'm surprised. yeah And I did see your posts. ah You had never heard of it prior to finding out that it was in Lancaster this year, right? Right. Well, i've I've heard of it, but I know it's like a like a trek to actually go to it. I see what you did there. Yeah. But now that it's in Pennsylvania and it's only three and a half hours away, it's something for us to do during the summer right before our wedding anniversary. So it'll be something fun. And then we're planning on like another trip. We don't know if we're going to go to the beach or, you know, the typical summer thing.
00:16:18
Speaker
Yeah. You know, but this one, I've always wanted to go to shore leave. And this time we're hoping we're going to make it happen. Nice. Very nice. Do you, do you have your like hotel plans finalized or?
00:16:29
Speaker
We're working on that. One of them, I think we're looking at right, possibly the red roof in across the street. We don't usually go for anything big or major. Cause we're not going to be in the hotel much anyway. Cause the convention's so jam packed.
00:16:40
Speaker
Plus Brandy wants to try to do other things outside of the convention. Is it nice? A lot of nice Amish stuff and shops around. in Lancaster. So yeah, Kylie and I actually go out that way quite a bit. So if you want some ideas of where to go or things to do, let us know or let, you know, let me know. I'll share all kinds of like, and, and like off the beaten path places, not, not the tourist trap places either.
00:17:05
Speaker
Oh, that'd be great. Yeah. is well We've never been out there and it, you know, just to get to see some of the cool stuff, that'd be great. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. You should look into maybe staying at a bed and breakfast.
00:17:18
Speaker
out there. Uh, yeah. I mean, it's not going to be much more than hotel and you're, you're probably, you know, you're going to get a a home cook breakfast rather than, you know, ah the the typical hotel continental plus breakfast that has a waffle station and, you know, maybe some hot entrees. Yeah. You know, rice Krispies.
00:17:38
Speaker
Yeah. And a muffin and a wrapper. Yeah. Yeah, you might get you might be lucky to get some dry eggs or, you know, dry eggs mixed with some peppers to make it look a little fancier. Exactly. Exactly. But yeah, I'll bring that up. I'll bring that up to her. That's a good idea.
00:17:54
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I know we've stated it we stayed at one. I'm not even sure if it's still operating or or if it's the same couple because they were older at the time and we haven't been out there for years. But yeah, i now the owners, you know they cook breakfast from scratch every morning.
00:18:10
Speaker
Uh-huh. Well, that's great. Yeah, i mean, if they could do that, it's a homey environment. That's better than sterile hotel. Oh, for sure. Yeah. Cool. All right.
Review of 'Andor' Season 2
00:18:21
Speaker
All right, so i we're going to transition out of Fandom Frontier and the tangent that it took us on, as as as our show often does.
00:18:31
Speaker
We're just going to briefly discuss what we thought of Andor, because that show just wrapped up its second and final season and connected the dots quite nicely to the start of Rogue One.
00:18:43
Speaker
he Oh, absolutely. The first thing I really liked about this season is it seemed faster paced. The story was more like solidified. and It just seemed to move little quicker with some more action.
00:18:57
Speaker
but Yes and no I still think there was a lot of buildup in the first two story arcs, you know, putting all the pieces into place, getting everything on the chessboard, you know, in the correct position for the the final, you know, for the final,
00:19:14
Speaker
story arcs, you know, because you had, you had the first two story arcs that were kind of building and building up to the the Gorman massacre. And then you had the final character or the final three episode arc that was dealing with the aftermath.
00:19:29
Speaker
So yeah, it was, it was it just like the first season. It did take a while from my perspective. It took a little while to get going, but I think overall, the first six episodes were better than the equivalent on the first season, just because, just because we knew the characters, we knew them a lot.
00:19:48
Speaker
We knew who the players were and everything, you know, we had, know, we had Luth and and, and Cassian and Bix and Val and Mon Mon, but you know, we, we just,
00:20:00
Speaker
yeah we We got more about those characters. We got more development on those characters. we you know and and I mean, even Bix's story moved in a completely different direction than i think anyone expected it to.
00:20:13
Speaker
who Absolutely. Yeah, that that shocking final scene with her in the final episode, that was... ah ah I think a lot of people were surprised by it, but at the same time, when she left Cassian, left that message, I kind of had a suspicion she was pregnant and she was trying to protect herself and the baby and but also protect him by extension.
00:20:34
Speaker
and don't know. Did you have an idea that was coming? ah Not really. i guess I just, maybe I missed the critical detail that that that you picked up on.
00:20:46
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:20:49
Speaker
Yeah, i just I just thought it was like, okay, she's out of nowhere. where She's deciding she's she's leaving. It's not that she wanted to put a final period, but I think she when she was talking about wanting to protect him and and want him to stay focused on on what he needed to do, they needed to win.
00:21:03
Speaker
I just said to myself, one plus one is equaling two here. I'm guessing there's baby a baby coming. That's where it was. Even though was ironic, earlier in the season, I thought that was going to be Dedra and what the heck's his name? Cyril.
00:21:16
Speaker
Right. Because they were building that up so, you know, so, so nicely. Yeah. Yeah. But then, you know, i think, I think Cyril started, know, once I think when Cyril got to Gorman and he kind of got in with the people, he started to, he started to make a turn, especially, you know, in that last episode before he was unceremoniously killed.
00:21:41
Speaker
yeah i think he was starting to, develop a conscience and realize that what the empire was doing to Gorman was wrong. Absolutely. And it's a shame that, you know, he didn't survive to, know, to try and yeah get, get with the rebel Alliance and, and, you know, work to topple
Character Arcs and Redemption in 'Star Wars'
00:22:02
Speaker
the empire. But yeah, yeah. Yeah.
00:22:04
Speaker
I guess, I guess his, i guess his sins were too grave to, determined or to get redemption. But then again, we have Darth Vader who killed a bunch of children, you know, got redeemed. So I guess maybe what, by comparison, ah Cyril wasn't as bad.
00:22:19
Speaker
Yeah. And also Darth Vader helped commit genocide against all Iran. ah Well, that too. Yeah. I can't forget that part. This is true. This is true. Yeah, absolutely. But yeah yeah, it would have been fun. out I wish they wouldn't have killed him off so quickly just the way they did.
00:22:36
Speaker
It would have been interesting to see him actually fully turn and join the rebellion. That's what I was hoping for. That he would have been the Agent Callous of this series, essentially. yeah Yeah, like the the first Fulcrum, even.
00:22:49
Speaker
Yes. yeah Or like a precursor to Fulcrum, because that was really, I guess... would would Would you consider Cassian to be Fulcrum? I, you know, that's a good question. I never thought of that.
00:23:02
Speaker
Like, I guess, yeah. ah way In a way. yeah and He's the most prominent figure and he was connected with. all the different moving pieces but that were trying to form the the rebellion.
00:23:14
Speaker
Absolutely. I mean, I guess that would make logical sense. I mean, he was kind of mixed in all the different little things going on, and he rescued Mon Mothma and, you know going on all these different missions. So, yeah, it would make sense.
00:23:27
Speaker
So what did you think of the finale?
00:23:35
Speaker
Man, I... I loved it. I think, yeah, I, I, I love the fact that, know, Lonnie or, or young yeah was, had had, you know, somehow gotten hold of Deidre's,
00:23:52
Speaker
credentials and was able to essentially pin everything on her, you know, because she was just such a lovely person. She deserved everything that came to her. Absolutely. Wasn't that amazing to see that she was in basically the same cell or same kind of prison that that Cassian was in in the first season? Yep.
00:24:10
Speaker
Yep. Yep. I love that. Couldn't have happened to a nicer person. Exactly. Oh, yeah. She got what she deserved. She definitely did. you know But even she, with I was surprised you know with how stoic and hardcore and she was in terms of being part of the ISB that she actually seemed to be getting sick when she saw what happened with Gorman.
00:24:29
Speaker
Could you imagine being the one to give an order that slaughtered thousands of people? yeah so I mean, it it just shows how cold and ruthless the empire is, which absolutely, you know, they would not let anything stand in the way of what, of getting what they perceive to be necessary.
00:24:48
Speaker
Mm hmm. So now the the the the material inside Gorman, were those kyber crystals or was that some sort of other material? No, they were not kyber crystals.
00:24:59
Speaker
Okay, I didn't think so. It was kalkite was the name of the mineral that the Empire was strip mining out of Gorman. That's right. And then the Kyber crystals were a Jetta, if I remember correctly.
00:25:11
Speaker
Correct. Okay. There's actually ah i wouldn't i don't know if I would call it credible more so more so than any other fan theory, but there's there's a theory that...
00:25:23
Speaker
Galen Urso wasn't just creating the weakness with the exhaust port. Okay. Like that, that wasn't his only attempt to sabotage the empire. There's a fan theory that says that everything like him, like he was the one that kept telling the empire that they needed these different minerals and materials to be able to make the super laser for the death star.
00:25:48
Speaker
I want to, I, it's almost like he was continuing to sabotage them and, and delay them from getting to the Kyra crystals on Jedha. Okay. That makes sense. That definitely makes sense. He may have had more of a hand in, in delaying the creation of the first death star more so than we give him credit for Okay. Well, I guess that would make sense to me. What did it take? 19 years for them to build the Death Star? Okay. But then the second Death Star was like accelerated.
00:26:17
Speaker
Right. That makes sense. Because they knew what they needed to create the super laser. it's It's not a bad theory. it it may be It may be completely inaccurate or maybe yeah may we may find out what the true motivations were later. But for now, I mean, it's it's not impossible.
00:26:37
Speaker
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. did you There's been a lot of fan theories that have come out of this show, which is it's been a lot of fun to read them online, different things, you know? i mean, ah obviously Star Wars always brings theories and those kind of things, but this show really actually got a lot of people's brains going and thinking and theorizing, which was a lot of fun, you know, and and this is what star
Themes and Impact of 'Andor'
00:27:00
Speaker
Wars needed. I mean, a lot of people said that star Wars hasn't been as good lately. I've enjoyed it. and I know you and I have talked about that.
00:27:06
Speaker
We both enjoyed this stuff, but, This ah ah really brought a lot of people together and said, never excited about Star Wars again. I think maybe that's what it needed a little bit. It was some of that darker, more edgy, you know, less, maybe less action packed and seeing more of the dark reality of what the Empire really was.
00:27:25
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, it, and or was prestige star Wars television, right? yes It's, it's very similar to the style of shows that you get on HBO and and game of Thrones kind of comes to mind as a, as a prime example of just what and or is doing for star Wars, right? It's, you know, it's,
00:27:50
Speaker
It's a lot more about the power play and the the struggle for power and the the the machinations of everything it takes to put together a rebellion top to resist the empire, right? it's it it gave It gave you a a first person view of the, the boots on the ground, right? You, you didn't see, you never saw, care about you never saw Tarkin. You never saw Vader. You never saw the emperor and, and, and, or they were alluded to, but they weren't even really ever mentioned by name. No Palpatine at the most was mentioned like four or five times. That's about it.
00:28:28
Speaker
And the whole two seasons. Yeah, and and they really, i think the more of the ah mentions of Palpatine were in season two. Yes, absolutely. I thought that Vader, for some reason, I thought Vader was going to pop up. I don't know if I so i thought I saw him in a trailer for season two, but I guess maybe I'm just like I had a dream or something. It was a real, you know. Or you saw some sort of fan trailer. Who knows? Maybe. Yeah, because they all say they all say Disney Plus on them. And then sometimes you don't realize.
00:28:58
Speaker
Yeah. AI is so good. Well, AI and and Photoshop skills are good and people, the way that people edit stuff together. Yeah. I mean, you know, if a lot of that is just, you know, for people to get their content, you know, exposure and, you know, to get the clicks, get the views.
00:29:19
Speaker
Absolutely. Absolutely. i agree. But yeah, i think I think they definitely nailed it with Andor. And maybe, you hopefully they can bring a little bit more that kind of Star Wars storytelling.
00:29:30
Speaker
You know, there's still a lot of areas during the time of the Empire that still could be filled in. You know, it's very interesting. Oh, for sure. I just don't know. I don't think Tony Gilroy will have any interest in coming back to Star Wars. But hopefully...
00:29:44
Speaker
you know, the, uh, the creatives at Disney plus on, on the Lucasfilm side, we'll see that there was ah good, you know, that there were good viewing numbers for Andor and, and, and that hopefully that will demonstrate to them that there is an audience for this type of very mature star Wars content.
00:30:01
Speaker
Yes. Yes. Now I just want to mention the, from episode three of season two, I'm not going to use the word, but the ah so almost assault. what What were your thoughts on that?
00:30:16
Speaker
I know that there was a little bit of outcry from certain sects of quote unquote fandom that that's, that that doesn't belong in star Wars, but I, I tend to be a realist and I understand that, you know, there are people that,
00:30:38
Speaker
joined the empire because they were, they thought they were on the right side of things. They thought that they were serving their, their government, right. They, they, they did it because, you know, much like in, in our culture, you know, people join the military to, to defend the country that they live in, to defend the country that they, they love.
00:30:58
Speaker
Right. And I think there are a lot of people that joined the empire under the guise of, they were attempting to do some good, But you had others like our, our would be Psalter who probably joined because he saw what the empire was about and he thought it would give him carte blanche to do whatever he wanted. Yep.
00:31:22
Speaker
Power. Yeah. Power control. Yeah, it's it's it's a way for people like that to feel like they have more power than they actually do.
00:31:36
Speaker
ah Absolutely. yeah It's just a very dark and gritty reality of of life. you know in ah yeah and know And I guess a lot of people don't like to see real world problems in their Star Wars, but...
00:31:53
Speaker
that And Orr was trying to create something that wasn't just the fantastical you know heroes and space wizards and villains, right? It was trying to put more of a human element to Star Wars.
00:32:07
Speaker
Absolutely. I agree. At first, I'll be honest with you, when I first saw it, I was like, oh, this isn't good. this There's no need, because what if kids are watching this? But you're right. They they needed that that kind of darker reality kind of feel for it.
00:32:21
Speaker
And the reality is she fought him off. She got rid of him. Yeah. Took him out, you know, so showed a powerful, strong, powerful woman taking, taking the power back.
00:32:33
Speaker
I'm trying to think was, was, am and was Andor considered ah mature? Like, was that the rating that it was given? I honestly don't remember. That's a good question.
00:32:47
Speaker
I mean, I would think that it got the TVMA rating just because not, you know, not, I mean, it was realistic violence, language and and, you know, content. I would, I mean, if it didn't, if it got at least like TV 14 that, you know, it had to get at least TV 14. Oh, without a doubt.
00:33:09
Speaker
and and it comes down to understanding, you know, what the ratings mean and what the content of, you know why the ratings exist because of the content that's in the show. Um, kids shouldn't be watching and or like, let's, yeah let's be perfectly honest. Kids should not be watching a show like and or exactly.
00:33:27
Speaker
They should be watching age appropriate stuff. Like, you know, the, the, I mean, the, The films all got PG-13 ratings, at least, well, all the modern films have gotten PG-13 ratings, right essentially.
00:33:39
Speaker
I think Attack of the Clones was the first, or rather, I think Attack of the Clones was the last one to get a PG rating. Yeah, I think Revenge of the Sith kicked it off with PG-13.
00:33:50
Speaker
Correct. And then every Star Wars movie since then has been PG-13. Mm-hmm.
00:33:56
Speaker
That makes sense. yeah Yeah. It comes down to just understanding the the nature of the content and understanding the audience that it was created for. Absolutely. Absolutely. Common sense, man. Common sense. Exactly. But yeah, I think it was a great season. I think it was a good ending.
00:34:12
Speaker
I wish the last episode would have been a little longer. i was surprised it was only, what, 47 minutes? Yeah. i thought they would have extended that a little bit, but because there were a couple of at least one other episode in the season, it was at least one full hour.
00:34:23
Speaker
So, but that surprised me. And i To me, that the the final episode was good. I mean, obviously it went right into Rogue One beautifully, but it just kind of seemed a little rushed to me. it was just kind of like, okay, let's just close it up and be done.
00:34:38
Speaker
You know, was expecting something bigger, something more like, whoa, I can't believe this has just happened. But I guess maybe that just wasn't part of the story. It was just leading right into. Yeah. Yeah.
00:34:48
Speaker
Yeah, I think it was all, it was all just meant to be the, the culmination and the, the aftermath of, of Gorman and, and the efforts of, you know, the efforts of the rebellion to. Absolutely.
00:35:05
Speaker
Yeah, no, I agree with you.
'Andor': Stormtroopers and Droids
00:35:07
Speaker
It was also real good to see how K2SO came about. And I didn't realize those droids were that strong. Like, holy cow. Right? and mean, they were violent.
00:35:17
Speaker
Yeah, you don't want to mess with a K2 droid. That's for sure. Absolutely. And then the stormtroopers actually knew how to fire.
00:35:27
Speaker
Yeah, that too. lot of people were talking about that all online. It's like storm these stormtroopers actually knew how to shoot people properly instead of just shooting randomly all over the place and missing. Well, I almost wonder if it was... i almost wonder if the reason why you don't see the rebels and the heroes and the Jedi being hit by stormtrooper blaster bolts is because the forces at play and the forces that work to protect them.
00:35:55
Speaker
Because... I know, I know it's become the the meme thing, you the memeing culture to make fun of storm troopers because of their apparently terrible aim.
00:36:07
Speaker
But I think, I think there's a mystical factor at play because if you look at, look at Obi-Wan's quote in, in a new hope that about the accuracy of storm trooper blasters, right?
00:36:21
Speaker
Yeah. That wasn't there for no reason at all. a Yeah. That was there to let us know that these storm troopers were well-trained and they were deadly.
00:36:34
Speaker
But I think with, i'm I'm sure with every military out there though, you're going to have some foot soldiers who aren't as skilled as others though at the same time. So while maybe 90% of the storm trooper force was deadly, maybe, that maybe it was the 10% that got involved with the Jedi and the,
00:36:54
Speaker
Yeah, but i I don't know. That's a good that's a
Memorable Moments in 'Andor'
00:36:57
Speaker
good point. I think i think you're kind of hitting it. that There's probably some sort of mystical like force field around them or something that kind of makes it go off. yeah that That would be a really good explanation for it if they never if nobody ever thought of that. So that's pretty cool.
00:37:10
Speaker
Oh, i'm I'm hardly the first person to think of this. I can't. I'm not that original, man. I gotcha. Hey, well, hey, I was trying to give you some credit. know, though, you don't want to steal somebody's idea.
00:37:24
Speaker
No, no yeah I gotcha. But yeah, so good. So now you're making me want to rewatch the seasons. Yeah. but that I think definitely the Gorman massacre episode. That was freaking amazing.
00:37:37
Speaker
yeah the Singing just, man, it was it was powerful. And then the second then the next one with Mon Mothma giving her speech against Palpatine. Just top notch. And anything anything that we've gotten to see, the little tidbits of the Imperial Senate, I've loved that stuff.
00:37:52
Speaker
Whatever show it's been. Because we didn't see, we've always heard about it. We just never really saw it. Now we get to see pieces of it. Yeah, yeah. I guess there's a book that was released not too long ago that kind of ties into Andor.
00:38:06
Speaker
it it get Mon Mothma's husband, Perrin, I know in the show kind of painted him out to be you know in the you know blind to what Mon Mothma is doing and...
00:38:19
Speaker
I guess this book reveals that he knew all along what she was, what she was doing. And he wanted her to tell her so that and he wanted her to know that she could trust him. And I guess that was toyed with as a deleted scene from the show. I guess that was in there originally was Mon going back to Chandrila and basically giving her goodbye to Perrin and basically telling him that it was going to be his responsibility to watch over their daughter because she knew that she was already at the point of no return and that she could not return yeah she could not come back to the life that she had led
00:38:58
Speaker
prior to speaking out against the Empire. And I guess he was going to reveal all along that he knew and that, again, he wished that she would have trusted him with that information.
00:39:09
Speaker
Mm-hmm. yeah that would have That would have been an interesting turn because he just kind of seemed to be there. Like he was just like la-di-da-di-da. Yeah. Yeah. Like he was painted to be completely oblivious to what was going on yet.
00:39:21
Speaker
Exactly. Yeah. He wasn't. Exactly. Yeah. I mean, and you can see maybe a little shadow of that in the final episode when he was in the speeder with that. What was that? is Who was was that? the the The wife of the...
00:39:34
Speaker
I'm trying to think of how to word it. That's his daughter's mother-in-law. Is that correct? I believe so. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I mean, you can see just the wheels turning in his head that just with everything. So maybe that was just a little snippet that they left in. I don't know. But yeah.
00:39:53
Speaker
Maybe, ah maybe they it was a, know, an example of showing rather than explicitly telling us what was happening. Exactly.
00:40:03
Speaker
That he just couldn't believe things fell down the way they were and he that he wanted to support her. Absolutely. So, but I guess that was addressed in the book. I think path of evil was in the name of the book.
00:40:14
Speaker
Okay. Okay. I never heard of it, so... that Okay. Yeah. well yeah and and now Right. And it is a newer canon book, so it is you know it's it's recently released.
00:40:26
Speaker
Okay. Sounds good. All right. Cool.
Klingons vs. Mandalorians
00:40:30
Speaker
So good. So we agree that two thumbs up for Andor. Don't get technical with me. Magic is the beginning of wisdom for Baris, not the end.
00:40:40
Speaker
A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and events. Okay, we're going to transition then into our feature topic for this episode.
00:40:52
Speaker
Just like the last episode, we are going to do a little bit of a compare-contrast format here. This one, we are going to talk about the different... organizations and ideologies in sort and Star Trek and Star Wars.
00:41:07
Speaker
and We've kind of developed a few pairs of of cultures from both series and it some of the comparisons are a little are a little loose, but some of them are a little more apt than others. So hopefully you indulge us and and get a little bit of enjoyment out of us trying to connect the dots between Star Trek and Star Wars.
00:41:29
Speaker
Absolutely. So I think what we're going to start with would be ah similarities between the Klingons and the Mandalorians. Yeah. Yeah. And this is kind of the most one to one comparison that we could come up with, I think.
00:41:46
Speaker
Absolutely. yeah Originally, our plan was was to try to compare all the races, but we saw some similarities in a lot of the organizations. So, yes. Yeah. So, I mean, Klingon culture and Mandalorian culture are very similar. I think they definitely both run on codes of honor.
00:42:03
Speaker
at this At this point. So, the you know, the Klingons have their third base philosophy that dealt with Kalis becoming kind of the first Klingon warrior and trying to honor the houses and not being deceitful, things of that nature. They they are also very similar in effect. They don't have... It's similar in effect...
00:42:25
Speaker
Klingons live with their houses and they're very, very important. It's very their homes are very our houses are very important to them. So the point that if ah somebody in a house actually disgraces the family, it goes on for seven generations.
00:42:39
Speaker
that You know, so the the thought of family and the way individual behaviors affect family members by extension, that's very key in Klingon culture. Now, I'm not certain you're the more of the Star Wars expert. So what do you think in terms of the clans with the Mandalorians? Would they say that that's pretty similar?
00:42:56
Speaker
Well, I mean, yeah. So you have the Mandalorian clans, but really, ah they were also referred to as houses. I mean, you had, well, let's let's take the example of Tar Vizsla. He was the the human Mandalorian who became the first Mandalorian Jedi.
00:43:11
Speaker
Okay. He's the one that created the dark saber. That was his lightsaber, which was, you know, a ah tribute to both the the mysticism of the force, as well as the culture of Mandalorians, because the the dark saber resembles ah more of a traditional, you know, brought ah a traditional sword weapon rather than a just straight energy, you know, beam of light, oh rounded tipped beam beam of light.
00:43:39
Speaker
so you know So Tar Vizsla creates the Darksaber, and then he forms House Vizsla with other members you know who unite around him. he because you know he Because he created the dark sare he adopted the title of Mandalore, which much like Kalos, well, I guess similar to Kalos, not exactly like Kalos, where Kalos was one person who eventually, who kind of, you like you said, he was the first Klingon warrior. He started the culture.
00:44:13
Speaker
The Mandalore was essentially the the ruler, the most powerful member of Mandalore, know, he would declare the title of Mandalore and lead the people to, you know, on their continued expansion or their continued path.
00:44:29
Speaker
Uh, so, But I don't think that, you know, there's not that the disgrace factor wasn't there. um you You know, you didn't, you know, if if someone in House Vizsla had dishonored their family, you know, it would not. They probably would have just been executed and the family would have moved on. They they wouldn't have had that stigma of disgrace as long as Klingon houses do.
00:44:55
Speaker
Now, one thing that was interesting about the Mandalorian culture is how, you know, essentially it started out as a planet, right? You know they were inhabitants of the planet Mandalore, but eventually, you know, they had grown large and decided to challenge the Jedi Order.
00:45:14
Speaker
Did not go so well for the Mandalorians. um You know, their home planet had basically been rendered uninhabitable and made into and and ah like a white desert. And the only way to survive were in like domed cities that were essentially below the surface of the planet because you know, life could be sustained on, on the surface of Mandalore.
00:45:34
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. So I know nothing like that really ever happened to Klingons. Like there, you know, Kronos was never destroyed in a galactic conflict. Right. Exactly.
00:45:45
Speaker
We can't say that about Vulcan, unfortunately, but right. Well, exactly well at least in one timeline. Yeah. exactly Well, you know, I actually there's an episode in season four of Deep Space Nine. They did talk about Klingons. I don't know if they were actually conquered or they were at least invaded by a gamma quadrant species called the Herc.
00:46:05
Speaker
I don't know how far that went, but I don't think like you said, I don't think it destroyed any anything about Kronos or Klingon culture or anything like that. Now, it does kind of tie into the the other point i was going to make. You brought up about the Darksaber. So the Mandalorians have this, it's not mythical, but it's this weapon that's that's very important to them and symbolizes their culture, essentially.
00:46:27
Speaker
So the cling the Klingons also had the exact same thing. From that same episode, it was the Sword of Kalos. Now, that was considered mythical, but they found it in the Gamma Quadrant was because I guess the Herc had pillaged some of Klingon antiquities, essentially, and took them with them to the Gamma Quadrant, and they happened to accidentally find it.
00:46:46
Speaker
But the problem with the Sword of Kalos was that it started to make Kor and Worf go basically power crazy. And they realized that that if they could do that to just the two of them, what would it do to the whole Klingon Empire instead of uniting them?
00:47:00
Speaker
So they just beamed it out into space in the Gamma Quadrant, hoping somebody would find it again in the future. So that was another similarity to between the Klingons and the Mandalorians, where these weapons symbolize their ah cultures.
00:47:12
Speaker
The Darksaber is not a mythical weapon, where the Sword of Kaelas may or may ah may not have been. But they do share a similar story in that, you when after Tar Vizsla had passed away, the remaining members of his house raided the Jedi temple and stole the Darksaber.
00:47:29
Speaker
And that's essentially when at that point that the the Mandalorians had felt that they could wage war against the Jedi. And that's ultimately led to the fate of man the planet of Mandalore after that ah that happened.
00:47:45
Speaker
Now, I know that not every Klingon, of course, is a ah warrior, right? Not every white Klingon follows that path. You know, they have scientists, they have engineers, they have people that basically keep the culture alive and build the ships and maintain the planets and everything.
00:48:04
Speaker
Was there ever ah any kind of offshoot or sect of Klingons where they wanted to be more peaceful and pacifist?
00:48:17
Speaker
Not that I can think of. I do know that there was a sect of Klingons that were a generational ship that focused on the Kuva Mok, some sort of savior that they were going to have. That was in a seven seven season episode of Voyager.
00:48:31
Speaker
I think the name was Prophecy. But yeah, there was a they migrated all the way to to the Delta Quarter looking for this this savior. And they actually ended up finding it in Volana Torres and Tom Paris' baby.
00:48:42
Speaker
Yeah. yeah So, mean, because they had some sort of disease or whatever, and the DNA from this one quarter Klingon child actually saved them, ironically. So the prophecy was fulfilled.
00:48:56
Speaker
you know so But that's I would say that's about the most pacifist I could think of. Okay. but So, yeah. So, so yeah I know you remember the Siege of Mandalore. Or not the Siege of Mandalore, sorry. the The arc with of Clone Wars where the Jedi and Obi-Wan were dispatched to help keep so the Duchess Satine safe.
00:49:18
Speaker
Um, and the Duchess Satine was kind of the, she was the the leader of this pacifist, sect of Mandalorians that did not want to continue their warring ways.
00:49:29
Speaker
But then you had the more traditionalist or the more, I guess, orthodox people. Mandalorians that joined Death Watch in an attempt to you know preserve that warrior culture.
00:49:43
Speaker
Absolutely. and I agree with you on that. now Actually, that kind of ties me in a little bit to another thing that happened with the Klingons and Mandalorians. They weren't above a little bit of disloyalty If you think about like with Death Watch, I mean, they they betrayed Duchess Satine and that group.
00:50:00
Speaker
But the Klingons did the same thing during the Klingon Civil War with the Doros. is So, that I mean, a lot of the Klingons were actually fighting. They hated the Romulans. But then the Klingons used the Romulans as a way of ah friendship and being able to get supplies for the war, things of that nature, which would have really caused major problems if they wouldn't have been defeated.
00:50:23
Speaker
It would have affected the shift of power in in the Alpha Quadrant at that point. So you know even with both both races being so honorable and honorable,
00:50:36
Speaker
really that being core to them. They're not against a little bit of what's the word I want to use. Like, I don't want use the word cheating. I'm trying to think of a good word for it, but you know, going like I'm trying to figure the word. Yeah.
00:50:54
Speaker
I guess having allies that aren't good, like turning against the, the, the need of their culture essentially. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I see what you're saying there. Yeah.
00:51:06
Speaker
Absolutely. So, all right. So anything else you think we should add about the Klingons and the Mandalorians? No, I think that was pretty much everything that I had in a nutshell to okay contribute. So, yeah, let's let's move on to our next pairing.
Borg Collective and First Order
00:51:21
Speaker
All right. So I was thinking that we were going to talk about the Borg and I was saying to myself, OK, what kind of race in Star Wars would be similar to the Borg? and i I was like, okay, I don't know if there really is any similarity in terms of races. I mean, there i mean there are cybernetic people in in the Star Wars universe, but they seem to be more subservient.
00:51:42
Speaker
You know, like Lobot or some of those people that have implants like in Solo. and were you know Those kind of things. So, there's no the only way I could think of the Borg... tying in into Star Wars would be more as the Borg Collective itself.
00:51:56
Speaker
And what is the whole purpose of the Borg Collective? And the whole purpose of the Borg Collective is to, basically they want to conquer the galaxy, but they do it through assimilation rather than necessarily conquering. So they make these people part of ah them, essentially to to kind of grow as a society.
00:52:13
Speaker
And I was thinking about it and i kind of thought, it kind of reminds me a little bit of the First Order from from the sequel trilogy. And part of what my thoughts on that were, The Borg assimilate, and so do the First Order. The First Order assimilates children into their collective, wipes away all sense of individuality, any memories really of who they were before they became part of the First Order.
00:52:34
Speaker
And then they use those children to kind of help spread their influence across the galaxy. you know, adding other cultures to their organization. When we saw that rise to Skywalker, they were essentially going to take over the whole galaxy at at that point, you know? So that's kind of, that's kind of how I saw it all in a nutshell. What are your thoughts?
00:52:55
Speaker
Yeah. I think that's probably the the closest comparison that we can think of. You the first order essentially, you know, they, they formed out of the ashes of the empire.
00:53:06
Speaker
you know, they were the, the few surviving, leadership you know of of the Empire. Oh, I'm trying to think of her name. grant Ray Sloan. Grand Admiral Ray Sloan. Brendel Hux, who would become General Hux, or rather, who is General Hux's father.
00:53:24
Speaker
He was critical to the creation of the First Order. But yeah, essentially, they, rather than how the empire, know, the empire would have accepted volunteers for service, but they also, I'm sure there was also a draft or conscription of some type in the empire, but the first order was different in that it was essentially forced to,
00:53:47
Speaker
conscription into military service because they abducted children off from planets to, like you said, to to indoctrinate them, to wipe away any sense of individuality and essentially reprogram them to be 100% loyal to the first order and to carry out orders without question, without hesitation.
00:54:08
Speaker
Absolutely. And here's ah another, it's just popped in my head. They all had designations. huh You know, so obviously you had the Borg with, you know, third of eight or whatever, and then you had FN 2187 over on the on the first order side, you know, so everything all all was about was just the organization or the society. That was it.
00:54:29
Speaker
Yeah, there was no individual member. It was, everything was for the greater good. Exactly. Now, you know, I mean, you still had hierarchy and structure, of course, in both the Borg and the First Order.
00:54:43
Speaker
Yes. But overall, I would say that the First Order was a lot more... once if you were, if you are a ranking officer rather than storm trooper or other foot soldier, you had more individuality, I think, you know, because you didn't have that programming, right?
00:54:58
Speaker
They didn't undergo that, that programming and and rewriting of their personality and psyche. Right. Exactly. Exactly. Where Borg, essentially you have the queen who is the ultimate leader of the Borg, but every other,
00:55:14
Speaker
member of the collective is a drone, right? hu ah Do you have anything in between the drone and the queen as far as hierarchy hierarchy? No, no, it was all, yeah it was the queen and drones.
00:55:26
Speaker
Uh, You know, who knows what they'll maybe come up with someday down on the line. But yeah, yeah it's it's always just been that the queen basically was, even though she was the collective voice, she was also an individual.
00:55:37
Speaker
She was like the only individual in the in the group. well then But then she brought Locutus in to be that secondary voice to unite humanity and and the Borg. And then eventually Vox.
00:55:49
Speaker
I don't know if you remember from Picard season three. He was supposed to next Locutus. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. I remember. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, but yeah, other than that, there was, there's been to this up to now, no other voice or no other role It's essentially just like, you know, with our bees and that kind of stuff in here in the real world.
00:56:11
Speaker
So, uh, yeah, so, well, let's, let's talk about the really quick. Let's talk about the, the people who were able to break out of that programming and essentially return to their, you know, their birth species. So they were able to break away from the Borg and,
00:56:31
Speaker
Through some measure of success, you know, others were able to remove different cybernetic components and become more human, like Seven of Nine. But then you had individuals. I'm reminded of the TNG episode with Hugh.
00:56:44
Speaker
What was it? I Borg, right? That was have the more the episode with Hugh, where, you know he was still primarily, he was 90% Borg, but he had broken that programming and wanted and had more individuality.
00:56:57
Speaker
huh we have stormtroopers of the first order, namely Finn FN 2187. But, you know, by the end of the rise of Skywalker, we learned that Finn is not the only first order to storm stormtrooper to have been able to shake his programming. There was an entire group of stormtroopers from all across the first order that escaped, broke their programming and were essentially sticking together to you know to preserve their own lives.
00:57:28
Speaker
That's how we meet Janna in the rise of Skywalker. Absolutely. Absolutely. Too bad we didn't get to see more of that relationship, but that would have been very interesting. I think in a future, in a project, you know, they're doing that in a book. I think, isn't there a new book coming out?
00:57:44
Speaker
That takes, Yeah, there probably is. I mean, it's great that we get books like that, but I don't think we'll ever get any more on screen. At least, well, I don't think we'll ever get John Boyega back in Star Wars. I think they they really, really messed up with him.
00:58:02
Speaker
Yeah, I'll agree with you on that. Yeah. Unless somehow he does that, the raid, that raid new Jedi order movie. and I mean, I'm crossing my fingers, but I'm also not hopeful either. I know what you mean. I know what you mean. But yeah, you're right. I didn't think about that. You're right about the Boar, the ones who actually were able to de-assimilate essentially.
00:58:23
Speaker
you know and There weren't many, just like with the First Order. You're absolutely right. you know and But what do you do to try to regain your humanity? essentially. i mean, we got to least see that through seven to nine because she was assimilated at six years old and then she was in a full adult when she was freed.
00:58:39
Speaker
So you could see that all the damage that was done. There wasn't really much memory left, you know, fragments, but but it they came back as time went on, you know. but so you know, with the same it would be the same thing with the kids with the first order. So that was a good comparison there.
00:58:54
Speaker
Thanks. That was really, that was good. Thanks. All right. All right. Anything else you want to say about the Borg and First Order? No, I think that's it. Okay. Well, so the next organization that I was thinking of was the Dominion from Deep Space Nine.
Dominion and Galactic Empire
00:59:10
Speaker
And who are they similar to? So Dominion, I guess you could kind of say is is a culture in its own way, but it's divided into three parts. essentially. So you have the founders who are the changelings who formed this organization because of the persecution that they had by solids.
00:59:27
Speaker
And they basically wanted to protect themselves. And the female changeling even said in her first appearance, so what you can control can't hurt you. So that's why they ended up creating this this empire and it was supposed to spread across the galaxy.
00:59:41
Speaker
Now, what's interesting about them is is that they created different casts or different races to actually be subservient to them and do their dirty work. So you had the Vorta who actually didn't start out as clones.
00:59:55
Speaker
They were clones throughout Deep Space Nine, but apparently... Weyoun said in one episode that they started out as like forest dwellers, almost like ape-like creatures. And when there was a changeling that was be in pursuit by solids, the Vorta actually protected this changeling.
01:00:11
Speaker
And so they were promised that they were going to essentially evolve and become a big part of this interstellar empire. So then that the Vorta became less ape-like and then they just decided to start cloning them.
01:00:22
Speaker
after a while. Now, to me, obviously, that sounded very similar to the Republic. And it's kind of hard to think that the Republic would be compared to the Dominion, but really the Republic did the same thing. You know they created this soldier cast, essentially, to protect to them protect them during the Clone Wars.
01:00:41
Speaker
And really, if you think about it, once the Empire took over... So basically, they essentially, they ditched the clones. They said, we have these stormtroopers are going to be cheaper to train, You know, we don't need them anymore. so just kind of left them to just kind of have their own fate, you know, it's essentially. and And it's kind of and then it kind of reminds me a little bit of the Jem'Hadar as well, because the Jem'Hadar are also soldiers.
01:01:03
Speaker
They weren't clones, but they were genetically engineered and they had a ah speeding ah growth process that was within three days. They were able to fight after their emergence from their from their creation.
01:01:14
Speaker
Yeah. you know So very similar to the clones. Now, theirs wasn't that fast, but they it it was very similar in that regard. And then eventually, the the clones, after Order 66, they basically became evil.
01:01:28
Speaker
They became the first generation of stormtroopers. you know But again, they were cannon fodder as well, just like the Jem'Hadar were. Right. Yeah. ah Wow. That's... That's a pretty, you went really, you went a lot more deep on that one than, than some of our other ones for sure.
01:01:46
Speaker
That's, that's impressive. Yeah. I think, I mean, I would say that it, you know, while they do share that similarity of, of utilizing clones as foot soldiers, as, as cannon fodder,
01:01:59
Speaker
where the Dominion created the Jem'Hadar as a tool to use against, uh, to, to further their interests. It would seem that the clone army was created without the knowledge of the, the Jedi order and the the Republic.
01:02:16
Speaker
Right. Right. yeah You know, that Darth Sidious had something to do with the creation of the clone army, right? that That was all part of his ultimate plan. And then essentially the Republic stumbled upon them. But I wouldn't, you know, but again, Palpatine is working in the shadows to steer the Jedi Order the and the Republic the way that he wants them to. So i'm I'm sure it was because of him that they even found the clone army to begin with.
01:02:41
Speaker
Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. Now, there's another area in which the Dominion is similar, not to the Republic this time, but more to the Empire. So we know that the Dominion and the Empire are not against a little genocide.
01:02:56
Speaker
and Well, it's it's true. ah So we know that with the Empire, they destroyed Alderaan. We brought that up earlier. But they also committed genocide against the Geonosians. You know, because the Geonosians are the ones, if I remember correctly, designed the Death Star.
01:03:11
Speaker
Those were their plans, right? Yeah. Yeah. It was originally being built or conceived on on Geonosis. Yeah. Yeah. So and in order to keep that a secret, they massacred the Geonosians, except for I think there was like one survivor and then there was a ah queen egg. So at least the race can eventually continue on.
01:03:31
Speaker
Well, the Dominion did the same thing with the Cardassians. yeah ah Usually they subjugate their planets, but when the Cardassians turned against the Dominion in the final episode of Deep Space Nine, the female changeling ordered the extermination of the entire population.
01:03:47
Speaker
And by the time that this the episode ended, there were over 800 million Cardassians slaughtered, and the number continued to rise. They literally decimated Cardassia. So both that's very similar to how those organizations are as well. They're not against a little genocide, whether it's his revenge or to protect secrets or or whatever.
01:04:05
Speaker
Right. Or, you know, in the case of the Empire and Gorman on Andor, you know genocide was. yeah you You also have the Gorman massacre. While it wasn't, I wouldn't know, I wouldn't go so far as to say it's genocide. It was definitely a very large population of people who were protesting what the Empire was doing.
01:04:26
Speaker
oh But they wanted the Kalkite to create the super laser for the Death Star and nothing was going to stand in their way, even you know a peaceful protest of of gorman Yeah, absolutely. And even in the Imperial Senate, they talked about how they considered that a genocide against those those Gormans that were massacred.
01:04:46
Speaker
you know So I guess ah you could kind of call it a mini mini genocide to kind of keep there their secrets. Right. Right. You know, and so yeah and and nothing to yeah nothing that would stop them from achieving their ultimate aim.
01:04:59
Speaker
who Absolutely. Absolutely. So that was an interesting discussion on that, that group. but For sure.
Spirituality in Star Trek and Star Wars
01:05:06
Speaker
So I said, so I said to myself, which species in Star Trek and Star Wars would be similar in terms of the strength of their spirituality?
01:05:15
Speaker
Right. And again, you know, i'm more of the Star Trek expert, so I didn't know a whole lot about all of the species in Star Wars. But I kind of thought I kind of reframed it a little bit to say, OK, can we look at the Jedi and the Sith as kind of a society as well as just an organization or group?
01:05:33
Speaker
you know so ah that's So I thought maybe that the Jedi and the Sith were similar to the Bajorans because we have the Bajorans who are very deeply spiritual people. And literally, they have a connection to their gods, who were the that they are the prophets in the wormhole. and But you also had them divided into two different sects. So most of...
01:05:53
Speaker
Bajor's population were focused on the wormhole and ah and the prophets. But then you had the cult leaders who worshipped the Pah race, and they yeah they they lived in the they were imprisoned in the fire caves on Bajor. What they wanted to do was go back into the wormhole, destroy the prophets, and reclaim the celestial temple for themselves. Yeah.
01:06:13
Speaker
All right. It reminded me a lot of the Jedi versus the Sith. Now, in saying that the Jedi and the Sith are kind of like their own culture, if you think about it, the Jedi all live in the temple on Coruscant.
01:06:26
Speaker
They have their own laws that they go by. They basically have their own kind of military and the fact that they themselves are the military, you know, and different traditions, things like that, that were different from maybe other the core ah people on Coruscant or other areas or other races in the galaxy.
01:06:43
Speaker
So, and they're the ones who are, they're gods. You don't even want to necessarily say that it's a god, but the force. They have a connection to the force, like the Majorans have that connection to the prophets in the wormhole.
01:06:55
Speaker
Yeah. um so So, kind of. The force is not, like, like a a ah ah alive. It was just the energy field, you know, but... they They kind of that's the Jedi kind of thought made me if you think of like the prophets where the Sith, there's less of them.
01:07:11
Speaker
it's It's more of like a cult. You had the Sith. What were they called? The Sith Eternal living on Exegol that worship them. ah There was a Pawwraith cult. They were kind of in hiding on Bajor, but they also established a colony on Empach Nor during the seventh season of Deep Space Nine.
01:07:27
Speaker
come You know, and they wanted to have ultimate power in the in the galaxy and in the universe. you know, which Gold Ducat tried doing in the final episode of Deep Space Nine when he tried to release the paw race from the fire caves, you know, and they were supposed to burn all across the galaxy, you know, so that's, that was just kind of the way I kind of looked at it. Cause I couldn't, I don't know about if you know it, like, get are there any real spiritual races in star Wars that you're aware of?
01:07:56
Speaker
I, I wouldn't say that there's any specific spiritual race that I'm aware of. i mean...
01:08:06
Speaker
I guess potentially a case could be made for Wookiees because they are, they worship nature and they believe that, that, that that nature, you know, controls or has a influence over their way of life. Right. They, the, the, the Wookiees, they believe that the giant Rocher trees that grow on Kashyyyk are sacred They believe in in that aspect of, you know, of a ah spiritual culture, I guess.
01:08:41
Speaker
That makes sense. And is that is that what they use for life day? Those trees? I don't. Well, i you know, the of course, the Wookiees live in trees. So you theirre their relationship to the the flora and fauna of Kashyyyk is very much tied to, you know, to the trees.
01:09:01
Speaker
Yeah. So I would say that Life Day is, and so you know, it's, I wouldn't say it's ah directly, were you know, related to the trees, but it's just a celebration of their culture in general and their beliefs.
01:09:15
Speaker
But, you know, as far as the Jedi and the Sith, you know, you, like you said, with the, the you know, with the Bajorans, you had that, that rift, you know, you had two completely, know, two different, uh, ideology split from one, you know, where the Jedi are, you know they believed in pacifism and quiet reflection and meditation and that the powers of the force came because you were in tune with it. You, you,
01:09:43
Speaker
you you followed and you believed in the living, breathing force. The Sith believed that the the force was there as a tool for control, for power. they tapped into, you know, they're tapping into the dark side, essentially just rather than using the skills of the force for defense, they use it for attack to further their interest, to further their means.
01:10:09
Speaker
Right. That's why they have you have, know, abilities like force choke force, a lightning, right. Those are very destructive powers and they, they lead to, you know,
01:10:20
Speaker
they They both lead to killing for personal gain for, you know, for the for the expansion of their beliefs and their sect. yeah I don't think, you know, of course, the Bajorans don't have any kind of abilities or powers. You know they are, they're a theistic society, right? They believe in the prophets.
01:10:39
Speaker
They don't believe in, you know, like the forces of nature being in harmony and being that, you know, being in harmony with nature and understanding the what the force is rather than worshiping a ah being.
01:10:56
Speaker
who Absolutely. Okay. That makes sense. Good description. Good description. So, yeah yeah, I mean, some of the comparisons, the Mandalorians and Klingons, like, know, like I said at the, before we started this discussion, we're probably the most one-to-one comparison that we could find.
01:11:15
Speaker
Yes. And we really had to get creative with the other ones. So, Man, I appreciate you coming up with this on the fly. And and I'm um'm really impressed with how it came together.
01:11:28
Speaker
It was a fun episode. it was a fun discussion. Definitely. Definitely. But it it does make you, i know I don't know about you, but for me, like it makes me want to dive more into the Star Wars races and kind of see what kind of cultures, like more of the cultural stuff. Like, because like I said, that was our original plan for this episode were to compare the cultures.
01:11:47
Speaker
You know, but it it's, it's harder because I don't think in the Star Wars universe, they've done that as well or not as much, I should say. Right. Then in Star Trek, where they really delved in all these years into these different races and cultures.
Cultural Depth and Future Content
01:12:00
Speaker
Yeah. And where, yeah know, where Star Trek develops a lot of their races and cultures and and stuff on screen. Yeah. Star Wars does it in the pages of books and comics.
01:12:12
Speaker
Exactly. And if you're not if you're not if you don't dive that deep, it can be a lot harder right to kind of to kind of get into. But I think this was this was fun. I think we we had a nice little chat about the different groups, you know.
01:12:26
Speaker
So anything else? Anything else about any of these other these four that we talked about that you think we need to add? No, I think we covered pretty much everything that I had notes on for sure.
01:12:37
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Same here. All right. So that's going to do it for episode 41 of Captain's Logs and Lightsabers. We, at this point, I'm not going to say when we're going to be back. We're going to attempt to come yeah have an episode sometime in June, of course, but yeah, I'm i'm not going to make promises anymore about the the the the number of episodes and the timeliness of episodes that we released.
01:13:04
Speaker
just keep an eye on the feed and make sure you're following feast of fandoms on youtube and instagram and tick tock and x and threads and wherever else you can find feast of fandoms because that is how you will be made aware of all of the Star Trek and Star Wars content that we are creating on the network. So if you're not already subscribed and you're not already liking that channel, please go ahead and do that.
01:13:30
Speaker
you will make You will get our live shows. You'll get our shorts that we that I've been creating. If you haven't been checking out our shorts on Star Trek episode of the week or this month in Star Trek, you're missing out.
01:13:45
Speaker
I've been taking a look at some some iconic episodes of Star Trek and breaking them down with mild spoilers and and just talking about how they're still relevant or how they still deserve to have another look taken at them.
01:14:00
Speaker
So far, we've explored episodes from TNG, g from Enterprise, from Voyager, and even Deep Space Nine. So if your favorite Star Trek series hasn't had an episode on it you know as as Star Trek episode the week, don't fret. It's going to be coming.
01:14:18
Speaker
I've just been kind of picking and choosing fun episodes of Star Trek to talk about. So yeah, make sure you keep an eye on those socials and that way, you know, when the the Captain's Logs and Lightsabers podcast has new content available.
01:14:31
Speaker
Sounds really good. So ah looking forward to getting together with you and doing the next episode. Yes, sir. Whenever that may be. But until then, may the force be with you.
01:14:42
Speaker
And live long and prosper.
01:15:19
Speaker
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