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023 - People-centered Leadership: Balancing Business and Vulnerability with John Woerner
33 Plays9 months ago
In this captivating episode, Reggie Ford engages in a deeply insightful conversation with John Woerner, entrepreneur and heart attack survivor, about the intricate balance between pursuing personal passions and mastering the art of delegation in business. As they explore John's remarkable journey from childhood gaming enthusiast to successful business owner, they uncover the profound impact of gaming on his strategic acumen. The discussion delves into John's philosophy of prioritizing mastery over breadth of skills and the importance of aligning with leaders who recognize individual strengths. Through poignant reflections on family dynamics, stress management, and the transformative power of vulnerability, John offers invaluable wisdom for creating a fulfilling and resilient life both personally and professionally.
Highlights:
⭐️ John introduces himself, highlighting his identity rooted in faith, his role as a father and husband, and his journey as a small business owner.
⭐️ John reflects on the life-changing lessons he learned from surviving a heart attack at 32 and how it reshaped his priorities.
⭐️ Discussing the definition of success and the importance of balancing career achievements with personal well-being and family time.
⭐️ John talks about dealing with post-heart attack anxiety and shares his strategies for managing anxiety attacks.
⭐️ John reveals how his gymnastics background and a supportive coach shaped his people-centered approach to life and work.
⭐️ Reggie Ford discusses the concept of focusing on strengths rather than weaknesses, drawing parallels with sports scouting.
⭐️ John discusses the concept of being a "jack of all trades" versus mastering specific skills, advocating for the pursuit of excellence in one's chosen area.
⭐️ Reggie discusses the challenges of delegation and the importance of trusting others to handle tasks effectively.
⭐️ John shares how his early experiences with games like SimCity and Civilization shaped his business acumen and strategic thinking.
⭐️ The conversation touches on the reality behind the so-called overnight success and the years of practice and failures that lead to it.
⭐️ John grapples with the idea of stepping out more to share his knowledge for the benefit of others, despite being content with his current life.
📲 Connect with Reggie
Instagram - https://instagram.com/reggiedford
Facebook - https://facebook.com/reggiedford
LinkedIn - https://linkedin.com/in/reggiedford
Twitter - https://twitter.com/reggiedford
YouTube - https://youtube.com/@reggiedford
Website - https://reggiedford.com
Book - https://amzn.to/487OqJD
Podcast - https://reggiedford.com/vulnerabilitymuscle
Podcast’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/vulnerabilitymuscle
📲 Connect with John
LI - https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-woerner-2b3214155/
Website - https://jsquaredsystems.com/
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Transcript
Surviving a Heart Attack and Major Surgery
00:00:00
Speaker
I'm a heart attack survivor. um At 32 years old, I had a heart attack. Went in and had an emergency quintuple bypass a surgery. Wow. And so I have large scars and a lot of healing.
Introduction to 'Vulnerability Muscle' Podcast
00:00:12
Speaker
Welcome to Vulnerability Muscle, the empowering podcast challenging norms and guiding you to find strength and power through vulnerability. I'm your host, Reggie D. Ford. In a world that often portrays vulnerability as a sign of weakness, I believe it is a source of tremendous strength and authenticity.
Redefining Vulnerability and Exploring Personal Growth
00:00:31
Speaker
Through insightful conversations and thought-provoking interviews, Vulnerability Muscle aims to redefine vulnerability and help listeners develop a new perspective on their own lives. Each episode of Vulnerability Muscle delves into a variety of topics such as mental health, social issues, and mindset shifts. We explore the power of vulnerability in healing, building resilience, and promoting personal growth, as well as fostering meaningful connections. This podcast provides practical tools and strategies to navigate life's challenges, overcome adversity, and create more inclusive and just environments for all people.
Guest Introduction: John Warner
00:01:07
Speaker
John, welcome to Vulnerability Muscle. How you doing? I'm doing well, sir. How are you?
00:01:12
Speaker
I'm doing well. It's a pleasure to meet you. It's a pleasure to have you on the show. And, um, I want to just, just one get to know you a little bit, but before we do that, uh, I got some rapid response questions.
Daily Relaxation Routines and Work-Life Balance
00:01:25
Speaker
You good with that? I'm great with that. Awesome. All right. So, uh, what is one thing you do to relax when you're feeling stressed? Well, I don't know what stress you're talking about. That doesn't exist in my world. I'm just joking. um man ah As a small business owner, there's ah a couple of practices you have to find because when you own a small business,
00:01:51
Speaker
ah Your demands go from the minute you wake up ah catching the emails that came in overnight to late night calls with with your your team or I do a lot of international business and their daytime hours are our nighttime hours and so ah finding relaxation ah for me has been about prioritizing a specific event every day and that is my lunch. So i have ah I have a kind of a funny rhythm. It works great for me. ah My staff knows um they can't invite themselves to lunch with me. ah My lunchtime is quasi-sacred. I have a family at home and so I don't get evenings free because I get to be dad.
Vulnerability as Strength and Community Support
00:02:27
Speaker
And so every day of the week I have a specific lunch place that I go to. um Monday's a specific place. Tuesday's a specific place. They know my order. So I'll literally get in my car on autopilot say, oh, today's Monday.
00:02:41
Speaker
Oh today's Tuesday I'm driving here walk in the restaurant sit down don't have to think about what to order don't have to converse with the ah waiter about their but daily specials most of them just bring out my meal they see me coming in they go ahead and put it in and order it and I have about an hour free everyday. Uh, to be me, uh, to be myself, to decompress. Sometimes it means I'm watching a episode of a TV show on my, my tablet. Sometimes I am sitting there taking notes on things that I just need to deal with in terms of, uh, outside of the world of work. Uh, and a lot of times I stare at walls and it's quite wonderful.
00:03:18
Speaker
I love that. And you you said a key word, sacred. That time for you is sacred and I love it. ah and And it sounds like even routine and consistency is a part of that because that creates predictability. So I love that one. Thank you. I'm going to have to take that and and start to incorporate some of that.
Childhood Memories and Lasting Relationships
00:03:37
Speaker
ah What comes to mind when you hear the word vulnerability?
00:03:42
Speaker
Well, see, ah traditionally speaking, if you were like, what's the definition of vulnerability? I'd say weakness. ah You have your strengths and you have your vulnerabilities. And so traditionally, that word is the part of the armor that's unprotected. um totally accessible to the enemies and to the people who are up against you. Obviously, um the nature of this podcast isn't tell me all your weaknesses so that I can expose you and take advantage of you. So I assume ah you're you're dealing with more of the emotional and mental form of vulnerability, which is, hey, you can't get helped.
00:04:22
Speaker
if you can't show people where your needs are. And so part of this process of explaining vulnerability in this mindset would be ah being willing to address and understand the areas where you might need some help and looking to those around you to step in and and be that shield or be that piece of armor that covers those areas for you. It's a team game. So for me, ah the right form of vulnerability is one where you're not isolating yourself from the world. Instead, you are engaging with the world ah with honesty about you, ah your strengths, your weaknesses, and how you can help some people and how people can help you. Wow. I love that. I love that answer. Thank you for that. um and And last question, what is one of your favorite childhood memories? Hmm.
00:05:13
Speaker
Oh my goodness, I have like four memories. um ah Most of them have dumped out the back of my brain as I've gotten older. um Yeah, I tell you, so there was a Christmas. I grew up in a very impoverished family. um there were There were seasons where we were just good to put food in the table. ah This specific Christmas, I was maybe 10 years old at the time, was one of those seasons. um and so our ah Our dinner the night before Christmas um was ah we had some leftover mashed potatoes, we had some spinach in cans, and we had some pepperoni. And so my mom cooked the mashed potatoes through the spinach and pepperoni. It was red, white, and green. We called them Christmas potatoes because it was a perfect flavor. And we ate that. That was our family dinner. There were seven of us in our family, so it was a ah lot of food to get around to everybody.
00:06:04
Speaker
And the next morning we woke up and my parents um were in the middle of telling us that we couldn't get presents that year and somebody knocked on the door. um And a friend that my dad i had spent a lot of time with over the last couple of years as a husband and wife and they were having troubles and my dad often stepped in and helped people reconcile those differences. And in their marriage was in a good place. She was a doctor. And so they knew about our family's struggles and they showed up. with bags of presents for the family, a brand new go cart. And with with five kids in the family, that go cart was like the dream come true. And so um all in, it was that moment of
00:06:48
Speaker
my parents complete inability to provide. And then somebody stepping in and said, hey, just like this vulnerability conversation, hey, let me help you. You've helped us in ways that money could have never bought. We have some money. Let's help you in ways that money can help. And so we had a great Christmas that day.
Identity Rooted in Faith and Family
00:07:05
Speaker
They stayed with us all day, taught us how to do all the things with all the toys. um And that family still ah now 30 years later is very precious to me. I actually went and saw them last summer and spent a good four or five hours with them because That memory is so substantial to me. Yeah. Oh my gosh. that what a What a story. That's beautiful. Well, thank you. That gives me hope for humanity right there. I love that. Well, 30 years ago, humanity, I don't know about the days anymore. We're just declining, huh? Oh man, John, introduce yourself. what What do you want the world to know about you? Who who is John Warner?
00:07:42
Speaker
Oh, you ask all these hard questions and I appreciate them. I'm sure you ask everybody these questions. I'm not the first, but it's my first time hearing them. ah Who is John Warner? Well, um first and foremost, my identity is in my faith. um I am a Christian man, so before I can get into any other part of who I am, ah My identity is founded and based in biblical truth ah with a relationship with a a Savior who has saved me from the penalty and consequences of my sin. That's the top step identity. And everything I do as a business owner, as a husband, as a father, as a friend, is rooted in the teachings and learnings of of my faith.
Business Approach: Employee Potential and Culture
00:08:22
Speaker
ah Secondarily, I am a father. um I have three children. i
00:08:26
Speaker
I have a wonderful wife. We have been together for 16 years next month. Congrats. I now have a teenage daughter and that is scary. ah Not only is she a teenager, she's also very attractive according to the boys and so we are working on that observation in her life. I would say my next primary um identity statement is that I'm a business owner. I own a small lighting company i have a partner in that in that venture um we have been a business two years of very successful first two years of business um and ah most of my days are spent um in my role in the business working with my staff to help maximize their potential and get the obstacles of them completing their jobs out of their way.
00:09:11
Speaker
80% of my work balance is just helping my team to to thrive in their roles. And so that's been a big deal for me the last couple of years. um Another big part of my background or history, there's two more items I would discuss about my identity. ah One is I spent 11 years as a competitive gymnast, ah high level, um not Olympic, but one right beneath it. and Power Tumblr. and then I've been coaching that sport for over 20 years since. I have a huge love of coaching. I have a huge love of developing and finding potential people potential in people and and bringing that out. um and so That's a big part of how I father and how I i husband and how I business lead. 20 years of practice and in and looking for potential and finding it.
00:09:59
Speaker
ah is really drained into me. And the last thing um is I'm a heart attack survivor. um At 32 years old, I had a heart attack ah overnight, went in and had an emergency quintuple bypass surgery. wow And so I have large scars um and a lot of healing. ah The heart attack gave way for healing in areas that that I didn't even know I needed to be healed. And this isn't ah physical. This is emotional. This is mental. A lot of things you learn when you face your own death and then you consider, I call this my bonus time. So in a soccer game, you get to the end of the game and the rest blow the whistle, but then they have a clock.
00:10:39
Speaker
And there's a little bit of extra time at the end of every game ah that you get to play. um And maybe you can change the outcome of the game in that little bit of leftover time. And so my clock, my whistle blew at 32 years old. And I have no idea how long this stage of life is going to last. um But
Life After Heart Attack: Shifting Priorities
00:10:56
Speaker
I'm going to maximize ah my understanding of of who I am and my understanding of the impact I can have as a result of knowing that this is my bonus time. Wow. Wow, wow, wow. I just want to say I'm glad that you're here. I'm so glad that you are here. Well, you keep asking hard questions. No, I mean, they're not meant to be hard. It's like when when you get a piece of paper, like at the top, it's usually like name. That's all I was looking for. is Like I'm John Warren. Well, I'm sorry, I'll answer way more simply going forward. No, no, that was that was a fantastic answer. And I mean, just learning a lot about you right now. um One thing I mean, I want to I want to know, because that that was very significant. What have you learned about yourself um after having that that heart attack in in that surgery?
00:11:47
Speaker
There was a lot in me um prior to the heart attack. um I'd already found a lot of success in life up to that point. in and are you defining success when you say that ah yeah Great question. um I really prioritized my career. I really prioritized ah my kudos. you know i At the time, I was working for a Fortune 5 company um in a global role. and I was going into their their small ah subsidiaries and and parts of their company that needed some work. I'd come in and I'd evaluate all of their culture and all of their
00:12:23
Speaker
ah results. um And we would take a look at results and say, hey, the culture needs to shift here and here and here to get you to better results. And the purpose of shifting cultures was really results oriented. If you can fix this, your turnover will go down. If you can re lower your turnover, then your sales success will go up and your customer attention will go up. It was very or inorganic in the methods and in mentalities I was using. It's still culture. which is which is organic, but the goal was inorganic. um and I got a lot of praise for that. um I kind of abandoned my wife and my three young children in the pursuit of this career. um They fell to the back burner. um As a result, I ah definitely um
00:13:08
Speaker
was fascinated with my own role and title and and things that were about me. And so the heart attack, um the person who showed up was my wife. you know the The people who were there were my kids, looking at my own death, knowing that it wasn't and it wasn't a good situation, it was really bad. ah What I knew is the people who would miss me wasn't the corporate America. It wasn't the the the places I had been and gotten all these kudos. It was going to be the three kids that grew up without a dad or a struggling young mom who would now be a widow ah and really no plan for success for them. And so that heart attack really pulled me.
00:13:48
Speaker
away. In fact, I left corporate America right at the point of my heart attack. um I was done, i began to start and run small businesses and and maintained a I'm at home most of the time ah presence. And even if I had to travel, ah like I travel a lot in my current job, ah when I'm home, I'm dead. There isn't like, okay, I get home and now I can relax because I've worked hard this week. It's, hey, I've worked hard this week. But my lunchtime is my relaxed time. ah My nighttime is my dad time. And that is that is as important as anything I've done during the day. And so it's always been a ah big shift. um And I think the other major focus is my wife and I began to talk about the pains of the first decade of our marriage, leading up to this point, ah the ways I had hurt her, um the ways that she had gotten shielded from me in our emotions and our relationship. And so as we've worked through this, it's been a very wonderful growth in our marriage. And look,
00:14:46
Speaker
If any of us listen to this podcast, I tell you, um, you married that person for a reason.
Managing Anxiety and Practicing Calmness
00:14:52
Speaker
You knew at one point that that person was a part of the completion of who you need to be. And if you've forgotten that you got to stop and take a look at what changed, you know, what what actually drove us away from that position in life, because that's where you need to get back to. Wow. Wow. Thank you. Thank you for that advice. I think a lot of people will glean from glean a lot of wisdom from that. Um, That's phenomenal. i I asked the question about success because that was something that um and different in a different experience than than you had, I started to challenge the traditional way that success was told to us and what was actually defined as success being you know financial and career and status and whatever you want to call it.
00:15:38
Speaker
ah But then, like you like you said, like you had to sacrifice something for that success. You had to sacrifice time with your family, you had to sacrifice your health, you had to sacrifice different things. And I look at it now, as if i get if I get the traditional success and I'm miserable, and there's no one around me, then that's not success. I i want i want to be i want to how have the the harmony of all of those things working in congruency with each other. and so I'm glad, I mean, it's ah it's ah it's a hard thing to at 30, I'm 32 years old right now. And I'm just thinking like, you know, I've had a lot of stress and trauma in my life. And I feel my heart sometimes acting like it wants to do something crazy. And I'm just, ah ah it's it's it's become a greater focus of mine to really prioritize my health and my wellbeing and focus on those relationships. So thank you for that story and that advice.
00:16:32
Speaker
Yeah, I'll tell you on on that note, dealing with stress, if I can share something. um Absolutely. One of the places that this heart attack has impacted my, I guess, strategy. When I talk to people about certain things, dealing specifically with anxiety, I have a major amount of anxiety post heart attack, um not because of work or because of what people say to me, but because I'll wake up at three zero in the morning and my heart will be racing. And then I get in the mode of, oh, here I go again. And then it races more. And then I'm wide awake and panting and having trouble breathing. The cyclical nature of the anxiety attack, as they call it, is one that ah is very real to a heart attack survivor. The challenge, though, is I had to learn early on.
00:17:23
Speaker
what's really going on here. I get myself outside of the moment and into like almost looking at myself from overhead like an out of body experience. Okay, what's really happening here? Well, I woke up. I jerked, my heart started racing, I felt it because it was pumping strongly and I began to cycle myself up. So what are the steps I have to take to cycle myself down? And so when we're talking about learnings from this, especially if you're someone who struggles with with anxiety or struggles with ah overwhelming thoughts or feelings, it's okay. How
Coaching Philosophy and Team Building
00:17:57
Speaker
can we back away from the moment?
00:17:59
Speaker
and take a look at what's really going on in our life. you know What are the things I can identify that are still healthy? My heart is still beating. Hey, that's still healthy. you know I'm still breathing. Hey, that's still healthy. i'm I'm laying in bed and I have tools in my immediate grasp. I have a couple of little things to monitor my blood pressure and my heart rate and I'll get them out. I'll sit up. I won't lay there. I won't stay in my moment. i'll I'll get outside of my moment and I'll sit up and I'll say, okay, here's the first step I take every time this happens. I go ahead and put ah this heart pressure or heart rate and blood pressure machine on my arm, I'll test it. Hey, that's okay. It's 120 over 80. I'm in good place. Okay, so my heart's still racing. Now, how do I calm down? Well, for me, it's typically a breathing exercise. I'll put myself through and then I will find a specific... um For me, it's ah it's a process of prayer. ah For other people, it might be a process of meditation or whatever they do, but but ultimately, it's ah it's I have a rhythm that I go to the minute it gets overwhelming. I have to train myself.
00:18:58
Speaker
how to engage in a healthy way before I cycle into a very unhealthy series of events that keeps me awake all night long. It messes my day the next day, now my heart is out of whack because I haven't slept in two days and now I've got myself stuck in an anxiety attack cycle that I cycled up. We have to choose to cycle down instead of cycling up. Wow, wow, that is so good and I think I'm sure that I'm going to assume that you check your blood blood pressure when you're not going through, you know, heart racing and things like that. You pray when you're not having those experiences. Absolutely. And I think that part is crucial as well, because when you're in that moment, like if you're in in an anxiety attack, and you're like, oh, you're not going to be able to say, oh, I remember when someone said to breathe or whatever, you have to practice ah those moments before that event happens. And so that's something I do as well. Like I i it's it's
00:19:52
Speaker
I have racing, uh, my heart races at times at night as well. And, uh, I will usually put on a very soothing, uh, either binaural beats or a meditation or, or something that's just very soothing to my ears. I get some ah essential oils and I sit there and I breathe. And, and by the time it may be, it may be 15 minutes one day, it may be 75 minutes another day, but at some point, uh, I can, I can sense that my heart rate is back down to normal. Uh, my breathing is back normal and, but I have to practice that before that event because I'm not going to have the resource to be able to pull and say, Oh, let me go grab this essential oil. Let me go. You know, you have to practice that. So that's a gym. That's a gym. I love that. Thank you so much for yeah absolutely. the audience Absolutely. Absolutely. Wow. Uh, you, you talk, uh,
00:20:44
Speaker
ah About people a lot here. I hear in your in the way that you talk. It's a it's a it's people focus It's people centered. Where did that come from? Um, you know, we talked about my gymnastics background and I had a coach early in my life I coaches out there you impact your students one way or the other and Be aware of how you're impacting them. But I had a coach who, man, I was a good gymnast. I was i was ah very skilled and very fast learner, strong, flexible, all the things you require, ah confident. ah But I also was the youngest of four boys and very downtrodden as a result, um overlooked in most areas of my life. I was never as good as my brothers in 80% of the things that happened. And there was a coach that saw me and said, hey
00:21:39
Speaker
You're you. You are uniquely you. And to get down in front of me, I was, I was, you know, three foot five, whatever at eight years old, I get down in front of me and he would, he would just look at me in eyes and say, Hey, all I expect from you is your best. I'm not comparing you to anybody else in this gym. I'm not comparing you to, uh, this other gymnast or your brothers or anybody else. You just be the best version of you. You can be, let's talk about what that looks like. And his influence in my life. I had an identity. I had a reality because he saw me as a person with potential. And so as a result, it changed me. And then as a coach, I adopted his style. So when I first started coaching, I was 14 years old. And I learned that every single student that I engaged had a potential. They might be the best at this and never any good at that.
00:22:29
Speaker
But for me my goal wasn't the point of all the things they weren't gonna be good at it was to say if you could be world class on bars. We're gonna be world class on bars because bars is where you show your skill set let's go after that because we can hire hype a whole lot of all the things they're doing wrong. But you don't make a world-class person by harping on bad. You make a world-class person by saying, hey, you are uniquely talented and gifted here. Let's draw that out of you. So ah moving forward to business life. um This is how I operate my company.
00:23:01
Speaker
ah In the business world, a lot of business owners, and I think they're wrong, um just to be blunt, hire positions. All right, we have three customer service positions. We have five sales positions. We have 10 fulfillment type positions, manufacturing, construction, whatever. And I'm going to hire somebody into this position. And they need to fit within the mold of what I've created the title of this position to be. Let's talk a lot about about ah job descriptions. All right, this job description says that you have to be able to do this and this and this to be effective. I need you to bend yourself into this job description or you're so you're not going to fit. That's terrible and it's wrong and it doesn't create a really well-oiled culture or machine. Here's why.
00:23:47
Speaker
Every person you hire has a skill set, has some gifts. yeah You need to hire good people who want to be at work, who are motivated to success, who want to thrive, and then you build job descriptions around who they are. And if that means this one person only does half of the fulfillment job that you need them to do, but they can do it three times faster or three times better, you hire that person in and you give them a job around their skill set and you bring in somebody else who might have a skill set in the parts that they're lacking in because look, we can't do it all. No individual can do it all. And so for me, the way I manage my company, you can ask any of the employees we have, we have 18 employees here. And the way I do it is I bring them in as an employee, quote unquote, you're coming to work for me.
00:24:34
Speaker
Let's put you in these few jobs. We'll try a few different things out. If something begins to resonate well with you, let's talk about what that is. Cool. Hey, actually, let's get
Running a Lighting Business
00:24:42
Speaker
you morphed more into this role because I'm beginning to see some skills in my job as an owner is not to fulfill some set of requirement tasks. It's to say, hey, look, I have an employee who knows more about who they are and who they were created to be. then they would have known if they hadn't come to work here. And now it's, can they be world class at this? And that's my, my love is in two years of business, I have lost three employees.
00:25:08
Speaker
Two of them have come back to work for me. I have 18 employees and I've lost one in the last two years. so Not because I'm this really cool guy or I pay them tons of money. we We pay well and I am pretty cool. ah But the bigger picture here is because they come in and they begin to buy into this concept that they could be great. And the whole thing we have to discover is what greatness looks like for them in a professional sense, because as they learn professionally, what they can be good at, it impacts their home life, too, because now they're coming in with confidence and joy and excitement to be at work. And those are the things you really, really want your employees to feel, because then they go home and they're not exhausted and angry because their boss just doesn't get them and doesn't understand their goals and doesn't know how to, you know, pay them well for what they're doing. ah We don't hear that in our company.
00:25:54
Speaker
We have tips between employees, but they're, they're willing to work them out because they love their job so much. They're not willing to go anywhere else. That's the kind of stuff that the right attitude of culture development and, uh, coaching to someone's potential, not to their weaknesses changes about how business owners can thrive in business. Gosh, that is powerful. Listen, there's a bunch of people listening right now who are like, I want to go work there. We don't even know what your business does right now. They want to come work for you because ah because of what you just said and how, and I can feel it. It's so it's a passion of yours to to build good teams and to develop that that healthy culture that helps businesses thrive. That's beautiful. I love that you you've taken sport and and translated it into business. Cause that's a, I played i played college football
00:26:42
Speaker
And, you know, when you're doing the interview process of going into the job search and everything, a lot of people ask, you know, what are some of your transferable skills or that's something that you're trained to talk about. And you did that exactly. Like, like from the coaching that you received to then coaching to transferring that to business. Um, that's fantastic, man. So kudos to you. Oh, thank you. And I will tell you business. It doesn't matter what business I'm in. If you can find a leader who understands who you are and who you're built to be, you could be in plumbing, you could be in lighting, you could be a retail, you could be a restaurant worker. Man, align yourself with leaders that understand how to draw at your best and you're going to thrive and you're going to find success. The style of business, just pick a medium and work. It doesn't really matter. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah.
00:27:34
Speaker
when when When you said pointing out the strings as opposed to focusing on the weaknesses, reminds me of a conversation I had with one of my buddies who's in the scouting world ah in baseball. And he was saying how you know some players, they they're pretty well-rounded, may have have some some skill sets and things like that. But the like dominant ones, they're they're really good at certain things. And they they may not be as well rounded, but they're really good at the things that they're really good at. And no one's better than them in the world at that. And that's what they see and they focus and they they want to take advantage of that and build team around that. If if this person is lacking over here, we're going to find that other person to fill in in this position. And so.
00:28:15
Speaker
Sounds a lot like what you just described. That's amazing. Well, there's a phrase that's been in business for a long time and it's actually probably hundreds of years old. It's called a jack of all trades and a master of none. And everybody loves that idea. Like I can be a jack of all trades. I can be pretty good at a lot of things. The problem is the second part of that sentence they ignore. Wouldn't you rather be a master at something than okay at everything? And I would I'd rather be a world class leader and developer of my people than a huge businessman or wealthy or any of these other things because that's what I want to be a master of and I'm going to fight.
00:28:55
Speaker
all day, but you know I'm really not good at staying organized on my schedule. I'm really, really not good at handling angry people. I don't really do a great job of like lawn care or I've never used a chainsaw in my life. I am not a good cook. and I could spend a lot of time trying to resolve those places in my life that I'm just not okay. ah You want to get me to grill out, you'll have a bunch of burned something and it won't look like meat. That's my problem. If I can spend my whole life focused on effective leadership of people, then I can have people around me who are good cooks, who know how to grill, who can do my lawn care for me. ah They're going to have their skill set. And for me, man, I'd rather be a master of something than a master of nothing. And so that's the change in how I lead. And that's the change of my mindset compared to a lot of business owners and and leaders is we really want a well-rounded team who all knows how to do everything. yeah That doesn't ever make you great at anything.
00:29:56
Speaker
let me let me Let me push back on that a little bit. Have you heard the full quote? The full quote. The full quote to that. No, I actually haven't. I just hear that one all the time. Okay. A jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one is the full quote. Okay. That's still wrong. ah Tell me why. Well, here's the thing. So um let's say you have a hundred hours, right? And you could take a hundred hours and you can focus on becoming really good at nine things. How many hours did you commit to any of them? Right. 11 hours. Yeah. Sure. Or I can take all a hundred hours and try to focus on one primary goal.
00:30:43
Speaker
The question is, what is that goal? I have 100 hours now focused on something and anybody in any higher education, you have to take a certain number of hours of your major, of any sport, you have to spend a certain number of hours focusing on a specific event or skill set. If you don't give them that hours, you won't be good enough. And so we all who are high performers understand that the more I distract my focus. Now, granted, as an athlete, you have to be well-rounded in your strength. Cool. That's part of the becoming excellent at anything. I can't be in football worlds. I can't be an excellent cornerback if I don't have speed and good hands and arm strength to pull a ball away from somebody. I just can't do that. I have to have those things because I want to be an excellent cornerback.
00:31:26
Speaker
ah You watch skill players and in in any sport, you're going to find the ones that are the best or the ones that say, hey, this is my identity. I don't want to do seven. Then you have the random, you know, ah guys who can do both sides of the ball. And, you know, there there are a few guys who are just uniquely talented, but most of the best. They're specifically focused on that role, that position, quarterback, running back, fullback, whatever you want to call it. That's their job and they know it. And so in this space here, I don't think I'd rather be good at a lot of things and you know only versus only good at one thing. I want to be world class at something. I don't know how many people are world class at two things. Maybe you do. If I'm only world class, I have to fight all the hours of attention towards that, not just splitting it down the middle. The more I split my attention, the less I can be great at anything. Hmm. I like it. I like it. I want to, uh, I'm just throwing this out to the audience. What do you think about that?
00:32:21
Speaker
one way or the other. I like it both. i like i like that so Yeah. Yeah. Oh man. That's good. Tell me, tell, tell us what, what your business is and what, it what it does. Hmm.
00:32:37
Speaker
The real answer is my business is my people. um That's how I view it. Our medium of of revenue ah is we sell lights. We design and manufacture new kinds of lights. We bring them in and we retail them. um and We often install them as well for customers around the country. The the primary ah vertical in which we are doing lighting right now is car washes. So we do lighting in car washes all over the country. If you've ever been to a car wash that has cool colored lights in it that do all kinds of shows and stuff, that's that's stuff that we've typically designed and installed and sold in those areas. But for me, I had no interest in lighting four years ago, five years ago.
00:33:16
Speaker
I wanted to be ah a great business owner who had a great team.
Advice for Entrepreneurs
00:33:20
Speaker
ah We just chose lighting because that was a revenue application that we could fill. you know and so For me, who am I as a business? Today, I'm a lighting company. um But really, I am a great group of people that I am blessed to be working with. There's 18 of us. And if we were to say, hey, you know what, we can no longer import from China due to various issues between our countries, ah we'll morph into something that's local and we'll become a lawn care company. i don't I don't really care what we do to make money. If you have a great team,
00:33:51
Speaker
you can go move into any avenue and you can be successful. Now, if you had a team that was only about filling a role and everybody knew that their job was XYZ and it wasn't about their success, it was about your success, then you can't morph that quickly. And you can't find success in new arenas that you might not have found success in before. h Yes. Yes. I love that. I love that. do you do you um Did you buy the company? Did you start the company? Give a little background on that and any advice that you would give to any entrepreneurs out there. Oh, I am full of advice for entrepreneurs.
00:34:27
Speaker
That's actually something I love. ah Business strategy is one of my my skill sets um and one of my strengths. and so um For me, we started the company from scratch. um My business partner and I did. ah We had been in in a lighting company previously to this as ah um as part of a bigger team. and We had some ah concerns about customer treatment, employee treatment, um how things were managed because my sole focus is the health and wellness of our employees and how that translates to a customer's experience with us. and The group we were in struggled with that mindset. and so we we We left um just over two years ago. We started this company.
00:35:10
Speaker
ah What's funny though is most of the employees followed us and I hate to you know say who I win, that's not the goal here, but they knew me and they knew my care for them. And so 11 of the employees right off the bat came over from that other company started working for us ah because of their relationships with the customers, several of the customers ah were able to jump alongside of it. So my my startup story is unique in that we already had a revenue stream of relationship. We already had a team So we just had to now fund the company enough to actually generate revenue to survive money to keep the game together. And so I will tell you this though, um ah entrepreneurs and startups, there is absolutely um a lot of work required.
00:35:57
Speaker
in your mind before you actually dive in. They're strategizing, there's planning, there's help you can find. We talk about vulnerability. ah Most of the owners I see that start a company and fail is because they think they know better. And they go after their way of doing business and what happens is they don't get the right support and their weaknesses and their weaknesses begin to way overshadow their strengths. And they're they get to 10 employees and suddenly they're not good at managing large groups and now four of them are quit. And it's always the best for the quit because then they can get a job somewhere else. And now they're left with the bottom six. And now they're trying to get the jobs done in a healthy way. And then they work themselves into a cycle of self-destruction.
00:36:38
Speaker
because it didn't have the right plan of attack. If you're starting a business, get help. Get outside support. Know your weaknesses. Know your weaknesses. Not the company's weaknesses, not your employee's weaknesses, but what are the areas that you are willing to admit, hey, I'm really good. at building tables. I'm not good at invoicing and billing customers. I'm not good at sales. How do I take my great table building skill and sell it and then get money from it? Well, if I think I can do it all, then I will never be an effective business owner. I will only ah fight, fight, fight and hopefully sell a few tables and be really frustrated with the experience.
Gaming and Strategic Thinking in Business
00:37:20
Speaker
Man, find your weaknesses and get support from people that are great around you and let them help you design a system for sales and fulfillment and invoicing and customer relationship and employee retention. Get help. Yeah, I think that's one of the best traits that a leader can possess is the knowledge of their strengths and their weaknesses and then the ability to go and find people who compliment those. Like if I'm in the room with everyone who has the same strengths as I can, we're just going to build 15 tables and then be stuck on all the other stuff. And I so so i and i even tell people, because
00:37:56
Speaker
You know, i'm i'm I'm really good at a lot of things and and it's just natural. It's like this thing that just happens where, whether it's sports, whether it's academics, whether, no business, whatever it is. Like we call this, you're a high performer. I am a high performer. Yeah. Right. And it will either intimidate some folks or or seem like things come easy. Some things do come easy, but, but that they don't, they can't stack up or, or, or something. And. What i tell them is that you look at the world totally different than i do and you have yeah intelligence you have wisdom that i don't possess and i value that i value your input because it it comes from a different experience than mine and we all like you said earlier we all have unique gifts we all have unique strengths.
00:38:44
Speaker
And it's about bringing those out of people and let, and so that they see them so that they can apply them to whatever it is. And so, yeah. And here's, here's an important key, I guess, correction on an earlier commentary we had. And I want to make sure that if you're listening to me, like, I like what this guy's saying. I'm going to buy in, be cautious. You might have five things that you could be world-class in you might have three you might have one The point is is don't waste your time in the things that you know You won't ever be great at just to become adequate at them High-performing athletes often are really good at more than one thing The point is is know what you can be great at I have athletes I've trained for years that are incredible on three of the four events. And what I've always told them is they get so frustrated by that one event that they can't be successful. and I'm like, look, go win gold on these other three.
00:39:36
Speaker
Make up for your weakness over there. You'll still win gold all around. You will still be the top dog. in the And you might never have a good vault. But you know what? Be a great bars, floor, and beam worker. Do great at those things. It'll make up for you. And so in the same manner, there's a book. And if i I'd never recommend books. In fact, I don't even love a lot of books. ah This is one I had to read when I was much younger. um It's called Now Discover Your Strengths. And it had something called a Strengths Finder Test. And all it is is you take this long test, it's like an hour long, like personality assessment, and it gives you five key words that you can use to describe your strengths. I'm an ideator. I'm a strategizer. These are words that I have learned that I can say, hey, you know what? I'm a guy who strategically comes up with really cool ideas.
00:40:24
Speaker
These are the words I use for that because these are the things that I am unique at. And whether there's 60 strengths in this test that you could fall into, if you find five that really fit you, uh, that's the ones that you want to take your time and work on. And so to your point, you're really great at a lot of things. Be aware of that. Don't dismiss that. But at the same time, don't waste time on things that you're just adequate at. True. True. And, and you just brought, I got to check that book out. You brought up something for me that, Uh, I had to become very aware of myself is that when you, when, when I am good at things, it makes it harder to delegate and naturally not being, uh, a person who wants to ask for help. So I'm i'm taking your advice and I'm like, yes, thank you. Uh, I'm a person who naturally doesn't want to ask for help. And so what I would end up doing was, you know, picking up on a concept learning and learning, you know, what I needed to do. And now everything is stacked on my plate. And I'm like, this, this gotta change. I have to, uh,
00:41:20
Speaker
be able to delegate more, have to be able to trust other people to do the job that they are capable of doing. And one of the ways that I, like, when when it really hits me is because I love learning. I love, you know, any type of like, i'm I'm gonna learn something new all the time. But I challenge myself on when I'm learning something, why am I learning it? Right? If I'm learning ah digital marketing strategy, like why am I doing that? Why so so I can control the digital marketing of it all and have to put all those plans in place and everything. Or am I learning how to play the guitar just because I simply want to hear the sound of music? like that Those are two different things. And so I've been been much more co cognizant around why am I learning certain things? Is it because I want to have my hand in it and not delegate it? Then I stopped learning that. like Because I know enough right now, technical stuff, to do what I need to do. And now it's all about building that that ability to delegate. So thank you for that. The the way I look at that,
00:42:18
Speaker
um I imagine myself as a dump truck. And every time I add a new piece of knowledge, every time I and i add a ah new piece of knowledge to the front of the truck, something falls out the backside. And so the way I look at it is is the more I want to know about something, I have to choose and pick, hey, I really want to dig in and understand that fully because I know the more I learn about this, the less my brain's going to be in tuned with something I learned seven years ago that I might still want to have retention of. ah That's when you ask me about my childhood memories. I think I've learned so many new things as an adult that I've gotten under just a few left.
00:42:56
Speaker
ah and And so, in the same manner, my staff knows. like I've been like, hey, you guys go work on this. I don't actually want to know how to do it. I don't care to. They all understand. like That's because he knows if he invested himself in that, there's going to be something else that he's letting go of in this process. We call it opportunity, cost, and business. To pursue something, what's the cost on the other side? Now, I'm not really a dump truck. I'm not really one who, if I learn something new, it falls at the backside. But I always have to caution what I spend my time on. So, I picture myself as a dump truck as a result. Yeah, I like that. I like that. You took that in a different route and I'm glad because it made it a little bit more flattering than you had. When you think about your upbringing, your childhood, what what are some things that has influenced the way that you think, that you operate, that you go about life today? You're you're going to find the answer to this to be completely out of character to our conversation so far. I was a childhood gamer.
00:43:55
Speaker
Before gaming was cool. I'm talking, I'm, i'm you know, ah quite a bit older when gaming was being developed. I was like, I bought the first, you know, SimCity, I bought the first Civilization, you know, I had the original Nintendo, you know, these are the things that I grew up doing. And I was like, oh, gra gaming will rot your brain and and, you know, it's horrible for you. And I already ardently disagree. certain kinds of games will rot your brain, no argument. But the games I got into, young, my first favorite game was Lemonade Stand. Lemonade Stand was that game where I would sit down and I would like look at tomorrow's weather, figure out what ingredients I needed to buy because I knew I'd sell more or less lemonade the next day. ah you know These are the things, how much ice did I need to buy? And I would i would play this little video game about
00:44:42
Speaker
business development and i I learned I loved it. and So I started playing larger scale games of of empire building and ah resource management games and now as an adult, I would say 30-40% of my business strategies come from the things I learned from a lifetime of gaming. And so the biggest impact to my business understanding and outside of the people portion, but just the business side, the strategy, resource management, revenue rates, expense rates, knowing what it's going to cost me to make this decision or that decision. It's natural to me because I spent literally 15 years of my life in front of computers and you know consoles playing games where I was building something and developing something. and
00:45:23
Speaker
It has been a huge impact to my success because, believe it or not, it's just a system. and Businesses are just systems. You have an input, you have a processor, and you have an output. The exact same as a game is every business you could ever look at. You have your sales, you have your processing and fulfillment, and you have your billing. It's all the exact same model. And so for me, gaming was the largest influence on my success today outside of my experience in sports and and growth there.
Balancing Happiness and Helping Others
00:45:53
Speaker
That's fascinating. And I love that you're, you, you are a person who can learn from all your experiences. And I love that. Like it's, the you're not just doing it for well you. Maybe you weren't just doing it for the sake of doing it, but you retained something during that time that now you apply today, which is beautiful. Um, I'm curious, uh,
00:46:16
Speaker
You talked about, you know, growing up in poverty, was there, was there any the thing that you felt like you had to escape from by getting into gaming? Hmm.
00:46:32
Speaker
That's a fun one. Um, I would say absolutely. ah The rags-to-riches story is one that always captivated me. In most of your rags-to-riches stories, those who aren't familiar with that phrasing, it's somebody who starts off in extreme poverty, and then they make a lot of good decisions, and now they become wealthy. And that was a gaming mantra of the 80s and 90s. And it's absolutely been you know in the news, as we look at people who you see their background, you're like, man, it's so great. Robert Downey Jr. was in such a terrible place, and now he's turned his life around, and now he's he's thriving. ah We love that story. And so for me, absolutely, my my my gaming was the place that I could be successful and wealthy, even if it was just on a screen. ah So I do think it played into that. I think the bigger picture, though, um is I had this internal drive to just do it just one piece better the next time I did it. So I played the same game 100 times, and every time just try to get one thing a little bit faster, a little bit cleaner, a little bit less challenging, ah find the easy button.
00:47:31
Speaker
I do it a hundred times to find the easy button. We talk about you know people's development. Oh, overnight success. Yeah, but you don't know the hundred times that I've fallen on my face to get to an overnight success. I've put 20 years into my overnight success with all the other things that I've done to get there. ah Yeah, everybody who's in overnight success it appears. It was a single phone call, a single opportunity, a single moment. But they have 20 years of practice of not finding that moment and trying to do it just one step better to get there. and So absolutely gaming was an escape from my property. Gaming was an opportunity for me to feel important, successful.
00:48:08
Speaker
um And that's almost embarrassing to admit to. But it is something that I can't deny that it did play a big role in and how I function. Yeah. And I want to just say to you that like you are important. and You are. fantastic with or without the success from business or anything else. It may feel embarrassing, but I think it's courageous that you're able to speak to it and actually acknowledge that. I'm proud of you. That's why I didn't like the question when you asked it. I like asking questions that people don't know. I'm going to wrap it up with a couple more rapid response. These are a little bit more challenging than before.
Reflection and Offering Business Advice
00:48:51
Speaker
oh So you say rapid response, do I have like a timer? No, no, ah you can answer these however you want. Rapid is just these, I call them rapid response, but really they're just the only canned questions that I have, so. Got it. um So the first one is, and you talked about this from an entrepreneur standpoint, but ah what is something that you and your business or you personally need help with right now? Hmm, everything. No, ah to be to be blunt. um
00:49:26
Speaker
We talk about this concept of vulnerability and asking for help in things. um There are areas in which everybody in my life is pushing me to grow, um and I'm really struggling with even accepting the reality that these are areas I need to grow. and My temperament is one of I want to be behind the scenes. I want to be um happy with coaching some gymnasts a couple days a week and having a small business with ATM employees and and having a great family at home. and and i'm I'm very, very blessed to be in this position.
00:50:03
Speaker
um But there's a lot of people in my life pushing me to step out a little bit more and communicate some of my ideas and concepts around effective business and effective managing of people. And I'm very, I'm um frankly nervous and not interested. um But then I see a lot of people around me hurting business owners who don't understand things that I consider second nature. And they need help and their employees are hurting. And so I see the pain and I see the need and there's a step this whole part of me that's fighting right now. ah
00:50:34
Speaker
do I step out and and do I begin to try to invest my time and attention into their lives and into their success stories and into their understanding and strategies of building thriving and and and healthy cultures. And that for me is something that um I'm right in the middle of soul searching and it's not an easy answer because I wouldn't even know the first step to take other than to hang out with people like you and you know just just speak my mind and and maybe somebody hears something on this podcast today that changes how they think about something and maybe that somehow improves their employees life in their home life. i mean that's That's all I know to do right now. and so If you talk about areas I need help, it's really recognizing who I'm built to be
00:51:17
Speaker
and identifying myself in that role i don't identify myself and who i'm built to be. That's powerful and one thing that came up when you were talking was this concept of what is enough. Because i think the world tells us more more and more and more go get more work harder push beyond the limit go get it and. Sometimes like people, especially high achievers, especially people who have been so highly driven, you've been out of your comfort zone your entire life. Right. Sometimes it's okay to say, this is what I want. I've reached it and to, to bask in that. So, uh, I will, I'll be lifting you up as you continue to search around that, but, um, trust yourself in that too, that what you have is such a blessing your entire life. And I.
00:52:08
Speaker
I live there, I'm actually very happy with my position. The problem though, how many people around me, and this is really what but struck a nerve, until this moment, this was two weeks ago, I was having this conversation with somebody, they're like, how many people around you, their businesses are falling apart, they're gonna lose their homes because they don't have anybody speaking their lives. Are you really okay? knowing the answers to their pains and questions and not speaking into the life. And that's the thing that really grabbed me because otherwise, dude, I'm chill. Like leave me with my 18 employees, my little business and my little past times. But the question is, is that really enough?
00:52:45
Speaker
I don't want to go be bigger for myself. I have zero desire for more fame or fortune. I've been highly successful. I've been highly praised. And you know what? At the end of the day, I go home and I sleep and I have a heart attack and my marriage is suffering. It wasn't worth it. But I was pursuing things for me. I've also seen how much effective coaching and helping of people can change their life. And I am in the middle of that. So yeah, is enough enough? Absolutely. Totally cool here. I've been there. I've been successful. But what's the cost of me staying quiet? Mm-hmm. That's big. That's what I struggle with. You asked a question. What what is your biggest fear, John? Horses.
00:53:28
Speaker
Horses. I used to be terrified of horses. I've gotten over that fear. I'll tell you. ah Horses actually are my biggest fear, if you want to be precise. I am very anxious around them, um mostly ah because they're unpredictable. The thing about the way my brain works and the thing about me playing those video games, the thing about me doing gymnastics and the thing about my coaching style is I know if I put this in, this in, this in, I get a specific response out in business. Man, to me, it's just you have these inputs, you have these processes. They're always the same. It doesn't matter what business you're in, the process is the same and the output is going to be based upon your input and your processes. Done. Easy math.
00:54:10
Speaker
It's like I'm an Excel sheet in my brain and horses don't fall in the Excel sheet. They're the ones that you can be completely cool around and then suddenly they jump up and kick you in the head and now you're dead. Like what just happened to here? And I watched these things happen. I'm like, man, I am uncomfortable around unpredictable responses. I'm scared of that. And so for me, it really is horses as part of a larger fear set, which is unpredictability.
00:54:36
Speaker
Whoo. I think, I think we share that similarity. I think are we same way here we are built the same way when it comes to that around horses. And I think predictability, which is going to inform my next question, which is not on here, but, um, what is, what does the predictability come from in your life as it relates to your family now compared to what it was with your family then growing up? Yeah, that's a great it's a great question. um Families are not predictable, but there is absolutely a a a direct correlation between attention and time.
00:55:20
Speaker
If I can have real true um attention given to each of my children, if I can have real true attention given to my wife and hearing her life and her stories and and sharing my life and my stories with her, if I can take the time and really prioritize, hey, this isn't work time, this is family time, ah there is a correlation in which health can be found. um I cannot predict that my children are going to turn out to be awesome you know athletes and all of these top-notch things. I can't do it, but I can predict. across the board if I take the time and have the true attention given to my family that they will thrive more than if I did not or have not or past tense when I did not and they were struggling and I was struggling. um the The point is is is it's more like baking where you put in the right ingredients. It might look a little bit different in the outcome, but at least you end up with a cake.
00:56:12
Speaker
A lot of families don't even have a cake anymore because they don't have the right ingredients going into it. So predictability is a little more vague. and I think it's a great question. I will say, though, um that what I've learned through you know now 16 years of marriage is that there isn't any crisis that should stand larger than your love. The minute something happens and that crisis hits you and it begins to impact how you love the people in your family, then you've suddenly lost sight of what the reality is. I often will say to myself, hey, this is not a crisis.
00:56:52
Speaker
This is not a crisis. I need to back up and focus on loving my family and loving them well, because they need someone stable. And if I get in crisis mindset, I become unstable and I cannot effectively father or husband in my role if I find myself in a place of instability overwhelmed by the the emotions of quote unquote, crisis is that come up. And so for me, it's always backing and say, hey, this is not a crisis. My responsibility here is to love my children, to love my wife and to do it well. Wow. Wow. Thank you. Thank you for that. That was a brilliant answer. Figure it out. You stopped me. I don't even, I like, I don't even think these other questions need to be asked, but John, I want to know where can people reach you? How can they get in touch with you as, as just where where's your, where's your reach?
00:57:43
Speaker
Yeah, this is part of that whole conversation around me hiding from people. um I don't really have a, I mean, I have a Facebook page. I have a LinkedIn page updated like nine years ago. I need if I'm going to find myself in a position of influence to to be easier to find. Even my last name is pretty awful. ah you know it's ah it's not If I tell you my name is John Warner, they'll go look for John Warner and find a doctor in New Mexico. it's you know It's not spelled the same way. I have a weird spelling of my last name. and so ah To find me, obviously, I own a company called JSquared Systems. so ah We have a brand of products called Magnitude Lighting.
00:58:22
Speaker
And so if you want to look up either of those things, you'd have easy access to me there. Obviously, um my name was probably on this podcast at some point. You can find me there as well. But for me, ah the most important thing is if you are looking for support, if you're looking for help, if you're looking for counselor wisdom and how to create a thriving culture or grow your business, I want to be available as much as I don't want to be available.
00:58:46
Speaker
It's a calling. It's a call. That's what it sounds like. John, I appreciate you. This has been a fantastic conversation with all the things that you could be doing and all the places you could be. I appreciate you being here with me, embracing vulnerability. Absolutely. Thank you, sir. Thank you for joining us for another powerful episode of Vulnerability Muscle. I hope you found inspiration and valuable insights that resonate with you. If you're enjoying this journey of self-discovery and empowerment, there are a few ways you can support the podcast. First, make sure to hit that subscribe button so that you never miss an episode. If you've been moved by our conversations and the mission of redefining vulnerability, please consider leaving a review. Your feedback not only motivates us, but also helps others discover the podcast.
00:59:32
Speaker
Share your thoughts on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you tune in. And don't forget to spread the word. Follow us on Instagram at Vulnerability Muscle for updates. And you can connect me personally at Reggie D Ford on all platforms. Visit VulnerabilityMuscle.com for additional resources and upcoming episodes. And remember, embracing vulnerability is strength. Thanks for being a part of the journey. Until next time, stay empowered, stay vulnerable, and keep flexing that vulnerability muscle.