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EP156: Rich Diviney - Reflections On Manliness
112 Plays2 months ago
What does it take to thrive in the face of extreme challenges? What attributes make someone a high performer, whether in the military or in everyday life? How these extraordinary individuals hone their skills to lead and perform at the highest levels?
Learn high performance and leadership, examining effective strategies and mindsets for success, exploring various leadership styles and the balance between authority and approachability, identifying personal strengths and fostering resilience, discussing the dynamics and pressures of elite teams, and understanding how to harmonize masculine and feminine energies for holistic success in personal and professional realms.
Rich Diviney is a former NAVY SEAL who spent 21 years serving his country with distinction. Rich has been deployed over 13 times to Iraq and Afghanistan, commanded several SEAL units, and was in charge of selection, assessment, and training for specialized SEAL units. Post-retirement, Rich has transitioned into the leadership and performance space, working with teams and organizations to unlock their potential. He is also the author of a book on performance attributes and continues to influence the field alongside his wife.
You’re invited to come to a Sovereign Circle meeting to experience it for yourself. To learn more, go to https://www.sovereignman.ca/. While you’re there, check out the Battle Ready program and check out the store for Sovereign Man t-shirts, hats, and books.
Transcript
00:00:00
Speaker
guys did By 1996 I was graduating from Purdue University from ah ROTC so as an officer and I got picked up and went to SEAL training. I subsequently spent 21 years in the SEAL teams during which time I i deployed I mean over 13 times to Iraq and Afghanistan. I was an officer. I really picked up a lot on leadership and teaming and high-performing teams. When I got out in 2017 I retired and went into the leadership space and performance space and began working with teams and organizations on both leadership and performance.
00:00:33
Speaker
You're a man living in the modern world in a time when men and manhood are not what they once were. You live life on your own terms. You're self-sufficient. You think for yourself and you march to the beat of your own drum. When life knocks you down, you get back up. Because in your gut, you know that's what men do. You're a badass and a warrior. And on the days when you forget, we are here to remind you who you really are.
00:01:04
Speaker
Welcome to Sovereign Man podcast, where we aim to make men mask. And again, I'm your man, Nicky Baloo. And we have a special guest for you today, a former member of the SEAL Teams, Rich Deviney. Welcome to the show, Rich. Thank you, Nicky. It's great to be here. Thanks for having me. It's great to have you here, my man. So, Rich, we were introduced through our great mutual friend, Mo, Michael Osterling. And um I got to say, I'm excited to have this conversation with you, and I'm excited to have you come on my show. Why don't we begin by you telling the folks about your backstory?
00:01:41
Speaker
Sure, yeah, I will ah i'll try to keep 21 years as quick as possible. But basically, I um i grew up in Connecticut. I wanted to join the Navy since I was a kid, wanted to be a pilot, actually. Found out about the SEALs. in the early 90s and began kind of wondering what those guys did. um By 1996, I was graduating from Purdue University as a from ROTC, so as an officer, and I service selected for the SEAL teams. I got picked up and went to SEAL training.
00:02:12
Speaker
made it through, which is good, um and subsequently spent 21 years in the SEAL teams, during which time I i deployed i mean over 13 times to Iraq and Afghanistan. I was an officer, so I was in charge of several SEAL units to include a commanding officer of a SEAL command. um and also in charge of the selection and assessment and training for one of our specialized SEAL units. And so I really picked up a lot on leadership and teaming and high-performing teams. When I got out in 2017, I retired and went into the leadership space and performance space and began working with teams and organizations on both leadership and performance. And then also wrote my first book in that we released in 2021 about
00:02:53
Speaker
performance and specifically the attributes that drive performance. and Since then, I've been just working that business with my wife um and have two wonderful kids, a 19-year-old and a 17-year-old and yeah just ah happy as can be. so that's ah That's a whole back story. There's a couple of things I'd like us to unpack if you don't mind. um What is it you think about the seals that captures the imagination of a young man looking to
00:03:26
Speaker
basically find his way in the world. Yeah, yeah it's ah it's a really a great question and it's something I have thought about. ah My belief is, you know it's interesting it was interesting for ah for me, I say us in terms of SEAL teams. When I went into the SEALs in the mid 90s, very few people knew what Navy SEALs were. um It just wasn't out there. um We were actually the black sheep in the Navy because we weren't really Navy guys and the Army hated us because we were Navy guys. and so um as we As the war went on and missions occurred and and and things happened, the seals gained popularity in ah in a very interesting way. And so it was very interesting for us to be part of this curve of of popularity. um And in doing so made us really think about what it was. And I think part of the thing is that it's such a tough
00:04:14
Speaker
thing to do. I mean, 90% of the guys who try out for SEAL training do not make it. and that's And that's the guys who actually get to SEAL training in the first place. I mean, you know to just to get there is tough. But 90% of the guys who get there don't make it. um And then, of course, the missions and the combat that we do is very unique. And I think it's it's one aspect of life where young men can think about testing themselves beyond their limits, to see if they have what it takes beyond what they think. And I think that's a very attractive ah proposal for for any young man kind of wondering what they're capable of. And so I think that's part of the allure. And then of course I wouldn't, I'd be i'd be remiss to
00:04:55
Speaker
to mention the fact that, you know, at least in terms of the popularity, I mean, we've done we've done seemingly cool things. And we've we got Osama bin Laden, we rescue hostages. ah that is ah That is very much certainly in the minds of most people, hero's work. And so I think all of that all that builds into this kind of really fervor of of interest ah for for folks to see see if they have what it takes and see if they could be a part of it. so Thank you for explaining it so well and so succinctly. if a If a young man is trying to figure out his way in the world, and I would argue that today in 2024,
00:05:36
Speaker
it's more challenging for a young man to do that than ever before. Society doesn't value the attributes and the virtues of manhood and masculinity the way it once did. I'm sure you'd agree with that, right? Yeah, i would I would. And young men today, I believe more than ever need strong role models, um voices that they can trust and emulate. And it's my belief that there's a lot of voices out there today claiming to have answers for young men, but do they?
00:06:18
Speaker
And I'm wondering what your thoughts on on this are. I know you think more in the leadership space, but let's face it, dude, you've you've been a Navy SEAL, you've done some cool shit in your life, and you're a man, and you're ah a man who's accomplished a lot and is continuing to accomplish a lot. Is this something that you would be willing to take a strong stab at? Oh, absolutely. um And I would say that, um i would say that honestly, i you know I say leadership. I'm actually more in the performance space. so Everything I do, everything everything we do here is really centered around high performance and high performing teams specifically. Leadership comes into that because leadership starts with performance. Everything starts with our performance. And that's what I'm really interested in. And specifically, I'm interested in elemental
00:07:02
Speaker
human performance. In other words, who are we at our most raw? Because that's really, if we understand that, we have a ah huge advantage to operating in any environment of uncertainty and complexity. And so so that's what I'm into. And I think when it comes to young men, I think one of the things that we have to understand and I would i would offer to the young men out there is that I think ah one of the issues I have with some of the quote, role models, is that they is that they the first thing they seem to do is they bifurcate ah the they the um i guess the synergy between male and female. And what I mean by that is that is that as ah as someone who's come from very, very high performing teams, for me, teaming is everything. And I think part of the part of the true man, part of true masculinity is understanding the power of
00:07:56
Speaker
femininity and teeming with femininity in a way that can't be it cannot be replicated. In other words, the the male-female team is one of the most powerful entities in nature. I'm not even just talking in in our species, in nature. It is. um And I think i think the one of the issues I see in today's world is that we see um separation between the two. One, One group says, oh, we can do anything men can do. And then, of course, the the backlash of that is, no, you can't. We're we're men, all that. It's not about that. It's about how can we actually work together. We are we are equal, but not the same. There's a huge difference, OK? We are equal as human beings, but we're not the same. We're built differently, which means we provide very unique capabilities. And I think one of the things that I would offer to young men is really become students of your own capabilities.
00:08:46
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um in terms of what you offer to the world. And that gets into your attributes, of course, which ones you come to, and I know we're gonna talk about that. It gets into the identities that you carry with you, um i.e. is it I'm a father, I'm a husband, I'm a Navy SEAL, I'm um i'm i'm an athlete, whatever that is, those identities shape our behavior. And then what are our overall objectives? So I would offer, I think the the overarching, and I know we can we can dive into any one of these, but the overarching thing I would say to young men is understand that you, every single one of you, has a unique capability that you bring to this planet and bring to this world and and teaming is the way to accelerate any performance and teaming with other like-minded and high performing individuals of either sex and and eschew those who would um would endeavor to separate us because we are not we are not separate, we are the strongest together. So that's what i I'd say.
00:09:43
Speaker
Say more about teaming with someone from the other sex. In what context do you mean that? Well, you know, I i can't help but, you know, use my wife as an example. My wife and I have been married for 23 years, and um and she and I met when I was... I had been a SEAL for five years or so, but we've lived through the war together. We've raised two fine young men, you know, two sons. um And I could not have done it without her, and she could not have done it without me. And I think and i think we really value the contributions that we bring in terms of feminine and masculine energy. even And we have two boys, although i have I have a twin brother and he's two girls, so I get i get to see both sides. But even in raising young men, I think i think to understand and to get influence from that from both from both aspects,
00:10:33
Speaker
is a very powerful is a very powerful advantage. and i think um And I think that type of mentality is one that is uniting in ah in in an endeavor versus versus um ah you know separating or or or kind of repulsing type stuff. that's that's I hope that makes sense. Yeah, it does. um I work with um my beloved as well. She helps me run E-Circle where, you know, Osterlink is a member of our business community there. And she brings a um ah way of doing things that I can't do. i mean I mean, straight up. She does all the one-on-one coaching because she's patient. She's really good at getting ah underneath things. Me?
00:11:22
Speaker
I got one speed on one-on-one coaching. I'm the bulldozer, man. Let's go. What do you mean you haven't done it? Get your ass in gear, man. Come on, let's go. What the hell? And that's useful, yeah but not all the time. that's right And i she sets everything up, and I go in front of the room or the camera, and I do all the talking, because I got the energy and the big personality. um And what she has is the ability to make everybody feel loved, valued, and cared for. And that's very valuable inside her business. Yeah. yeah it's so there's There's no question about that. And I agree with you. These groups that are saying men should go their own way are nuts. If men went their own way and stop pair bonding with women, we wouldn't have a society. That's right. The human race would collapse. Same goes for the reverse. Same goes for the reverse. and I would say, so one of the ways I like to describe um ah humans, and I do so in in sense of attributes as well, is that I like to think of us as automobiles, kind of like the movie Cars. Some of us are Jeeps, some of us are SUVs, some of us are Ferraris. And there's no judgment there, because the Jeep can do things the Ferrari can't do, and the Ferrari can do things the Jeep can't do.
00:12:30
Speaker
ah But if we're not if we're unwilling to lift our hood and figure out what type of engine we're running with, then we are at a loss and at a deficit of becoming our best self. Because if you start understanding, hey, I'm a Jeep, right? And it starts to explain why my life might not be where where it it could be because I've been a Jeep trying to run on a Ferrari track this whole time. or I've been a Ferrari trying to run a Jeep track this whole time. But even if that's the choice, even if I say I am a Jeep and I want to run on a Ferrari track, even that choice is empowering, right? But we start to understand what are those things, these unique qualities. every Every human, every car has the same component parts, right? Again, we're the same. Excuse me, we're equal, but not the same. We all have carburetors. We all have steering wheels. We all have ah frame frames and and and exhaust pipes.
00:13:16
Speaker
But each car has a unique difference about it and can do different things just like every human being. And so I think if we were to if we if we look to build, I think, healthy, ah what I call habits of introspection. which is where we can sit we consistently look at ourselves in a humble way and say, okay, what am I great at? And what am i what am I not so great at? And how does that map into what I want to do in life? And how does that map into my relationships and bring your best self to whatever relationship you're in? because Because a marriage is one thing, but even on a SEAL team, I have to bring my best self to my brothers in my SEAL team. And they have to bring their best selves.
00:13:51
Speaker
And I also have to be transparent with my brothers about my weaknesses. And so so vulnerability is another thing I would say. Vulnerability for anybody um is important, but we have to make sure we use the proper definition of vulnerability. The way we define vulnerability in a team like the SEAL teams, is we are as transparent about our strengths as we are about our weaknesses. We wear everything on our sleeve because now my teammates know exactly what I'm strong at and exactly what I'm weak at. They know when they're gonna lean on me and when I'm going to be leaning on them. And I believe every high performing relationship, whether it be a SEAL team, whether it be a business team, whether it be an athletic team, whether it be a great marriage, they are all transparent about both their strengths and their weaknesses. That's what food vulnerability is.
00:14:38
Speaker
That is really, really good. I like it. I like it a lot. um So what do you say to men about all the negative BS that's being said about men manhood and masculinity? How would you tell a young man to conduct himself in the face of all the BS that's being tossed at him? Yeah, I would say, first of all, do your best to ignore it. That's one thing. Second of all, avoid, to the to the extent possible, avoid those who purport it. And avoid those who purport it on either side, whether it's a whether it's a a bunch of females saying how they don't need men and they can do everything, and men mask and toxic, maxline and all that stuff.
00:15:16
Speaker
or If it's a group of men saying, you know, screw that, we don't need women, women you know you know women need to stay in the kitchen, whatever that is, avoid that because that is not giving you a perspective that will actually dominate in society, right? so So ignore it, understand that those people are coming from places of insecurity. And so I would almost say this is going to be a little bit probably left field here, but I would say, and this is what I try to do, I try to practice empathy for those people. And I ask myself, what is it about their lives and their situation that is that is allowing them to think this way? Because there's some insecurity there. um and And if I can help, if I can in some in some way get a sense of or get an idea of their insecurity,
00:16:02
Speaker
it actually makes me feel much better about the whole thing. i i don't And it and i get i don't I don't hate. i hate is Hate is a destructive emotion because it doesn't do anything but destroy the person who feels it. but i can If I hate someone, they don't care. I mean, they're they're not feeling anything. So so we don't so so anything anything we see that that seems to fill us with anger and hate, we need to actually deconstruct, try to empathize a bit and try to get rid of that anger and hate because it's only destroying ourselves. So that's but kind of what I'd say about that.
00:16:37
Speaker
And I think this is all very good advice, but at a macro level, how can we equip young men to be able to go into society and frankly help change this narrative because this narrative is destructive? Yeah, yeah. um I would say this. um I would say that while the narrative is out there and the narrative is real, ah it has been my experience up to this point that the the loudest the loudest voices are actually not the majority, the loudest voices of the minority. And so I think one of the one of the things we, one of the realizations I think young men need to have is um is go out and do the best you can, be the best man you can, and you're going to find
00:17:22
Speaker
groups of people who act more than you find group that's been my experience this this up to this point, I think we are in a society today where one of the disadvantages is spew whatever opinion we want ah that the loudest and most extreme opinions get get get the most airtime because that's the most drama and so we get inundated with these Extreme viewpoints on either side whatever news agency we're watching whatever whatever side we we we
00:17:55
Speaker
you know we we bias ourselves towards, we're getting dominated, our thoughts and our experiences are getting dominated by the extremes of that. And so and so I found that, and i some of the advice I would give is, and I tell this to my boys, I say, listen, even on social media, YouTube or otherwise, um if you are into something on YouTube, okay, it's obvious now, it's it's it's a known fact that that that that algorithm is diving you deeper and deeper into what you show interest in. So screw with the algorithm. right Try to deliberately look up opinions that you don't agree with. and i And I would say when it comes to this type of empathy, what I tell everybody to include young men and my own boys is that empathy does not require agreement. okay um here's ah Here's an example. It's a little bit of morbid one. but but you know
00:18:43
Speaker
it's It's a good one. We were in Iraq ah yeah early so mid and there was there was a situation where um a 13-year-old kid ah attempted to shoot a rocket-propelled grenade at a convoy, a coalition convoy. Now, of course, they can't let that happen, right? So the convoy had to sniper had to use a sniper and and shoot the kid. So now you have a 13-year-old kid who's now dead. It's always unfortunate to see. um And I remember it was ah an evening or two after that, a bunch of us seals. we were We didn't have anything going on that night, so we were on a fire just kind of shooting the shit. And this came up, and we started talking about this. And we we all said, well, let's let's walk this back for a second, OK? Here's a 13-year-old kid, 13-year-old boy. um he's probably It's probably just him and his mom and his sisters. His dad is probably dead or gone, OK?
00:19:31
Speaker
um So it's just him. there's no There's no music, there's no school, there's no sports, there's no parties, there's no alcohol, there's no dating. There's nothing for this kid, this 13-year-old kid to get his testosterone out on, okay? And then one day, the bad guys show up and they say, hey, we will give you 100 denar if you go shoot this rocket-propelled grenade at this convoy. every single one of us seals in that circle said we would be that kid. Had we been in that environment, we would be that kid. Now, we're not agreeing with the what the kid did, we're empathizing. and so And so one of the exercises of empathy that i would I would encourage people to do, and I try to do this myself, is i go I go try to find opinions and viewpoints that I actually vehemently disagree with. And I try to see if I can get into their shoes for a moment. It does not mean I agree with it. But just the act of doing that elevates you to a level that's beyond
00:20:22
Speaker
these extremists, these extremists, they're very low level thinkers, all of them, whatever side you're looking at, they're very low level thinkers and I think one of the things we have the ability to do is elevate our thinking, elevate our perspective and that act alone will propel you into success and propel you into realms of people who think the same way you do. That's very interesting and I think you're right, that's a great exercise to go into viewpoints that I vehemently disagree with and explore them.
00:20:58
Speaker
and be able to empathize with the human being, not agree with the opinion, but empathize with the human being. yeah Fascinating. i think i think that's some I think that's a true element of the superior man and the superior woman, is the ability to do that, um is the ability to pull back and understand and empathize and see and under so and and and um and in some cases feel. but But that's where wisdom comes from. Wisdom comes from this ability to kind of back off, listen, learn, experience, think about. um And and that's the that's how we that's how we become the superior man or the superior woman. um it's it's it's Well, I should say it's that simple. It's not that easy, but it's that simple. You know, nothing in life that's worth doing is really easy. But it is all simple. That's true. Yeah. Wow.
00:21:54
Speaker
Wow. So there's a book that was written a couple of decades ago called The Way of the Superior Man by David Data. And um it's a fascinating book. if Have you heard of it or read it? I've heard of it. Yes, I have. Yeah. yeah it's It's worth reading. It's a fantastic book. um You're making me think on on the show. And that's that's a wonderful thing. And it's it's something that doesn't always necessarily happen. Sometimes people say things. I just go, yeah, I agree with that. And I just move on to the next point. I'm actually... uh absorbing what you're saying and letting it just sink in and and going yeah this is good it's not what i expected but this is really really good well and i would say that this is these are and and these are the types of conversations that i love because because what you what you say to me makes me think and i think these are the conversations that men
00:22:50
Speaker
Well, I say men, everybody, but we'll we'll talk about young men should seek to have, right? I think one of the biggest problems with today is that we are, because of our media, we're forced into, or seemingly forced into one locked side. and And if we're on this side, we believe all this stuff, right? And and the ability to have a conversation with someone that we ah that that has a different opinion from us or makes us think is almost, Negated and I think if we go seek those conversations in an open um Respectful way we elevate ourselves and so I love these types of conversations that even though you and I i know you and I actually agree on most things um Even our ability to talk about different ideas allows us to stop think process and come out better Than we came in from a conversation. I think that's any any conversation where you can say that is a positive conversation Yeah, I agree
00:23:43
Speaker
When I first met Michael Osterlank, we had a conversation about foreign defense policy. And I have a master's degree from Georgetown University in the their School of Foreign Service. And so I know a lot about that. but What I do now is I'm a businessman, but that conversation was so rich, so powerful, so interesting. It made me want to interview him on my podcast yeah ah to talk about those things. So that was very, very powerful ah for me. So I've i've learned a ah ton from this conversation and I am clear that my listener will also learn a ton from it as well. So I'm going to shift gears.
00:24:22
Speaker
So you're from Connecticut originally, you said. ah Originally Connecticut, yes. Where do you live now? I live in Virginia Beach, Virginia. Oh, Virginia Beach is a fabulous place. Yeah. yeah so um I follow um on YouTube a dude who has a really fun YouTube channel. um It's Dave Portnoy, the One Bite Pizza Reviews, and he claims that the best pizza in the world is from New Haven, Connecticut.
00:24:53
Speaker
wow um And as a man who's from Connecticut, I wanted to just ask you, is that true? Well, I don't, I can't say, i I never, I grew up in Westport, which is south of New Haven. I was actually closer to New York than I was New Haven. and Maybe there's a, I mean, a New York pizza is fantastic. So maybe there's a spill over there, um but I couldn't say for sure. I trust them though. I mean, it's, it's New England style pizza is pretty good no matter where you are. so Well, here's what he says. He says it's better than Italian pizza in Italy. OK, I mean, that's pretty crazy from my point of view. But he said the reason is because the folks in New Haven have those old fashioned coal fired brick ovens and pizza that's cooked in an old fashioned coal fired brick oven comes out
00:25:39
Speaker
ah With the undercarriage slightly charred and it's crisp so it's not flopping. There's no flop. He's really against flop. Yeah, and then Apparently the the just cheese and and and tomato sauce It's perfect. And he I watch him eat it and I go I need to drive to New Haven from Toronto. I need to go have myself some New Haven pizza. I'm in the middle of some sort of fitness competition until the end of July, so I can't immediately do it. But dude, in the month of August, I'm thinking, time to go to New Haven, man. Well, let me know. Let me know, because my my dad still lives up in Connecticut. So ah so if i'm but if I'm out there, i might if I'm visiting, I might swing up there. because yeah But let me know if you do it, and let me know what you think. Oh, I'm going to do it. like okay It's going to happen, just the timing of it is.
00:26:25
Speaker
like You know, New Haven pizza, man. So, yeah, pizzas. Who knew? Who knew New Haven was the was the mecca? I know when you said Connecticut, I just thought I had to ask you. But OK, but you haven't you haven't had New Haven pizza. So you we're going to have to get you to have New Haven pizza, too. I got to go to all that the the major ah New Haven pizza spots that he said are the best in the world. So I'm going to go. There's about five of them. I'm going to go there. I'm going to buy pizza from each. I'm going to eat a slice and going to hand out the rest to other people. But I think that's going to be great. Yeah. um So Virginia Beach, tell me a little bit about Virginia Beach. What's it like for you to live there right now? I mean,
00:27:03
Speaker
I went to Georgetown and I lived in um in Georgetown proper, but I spent a lot of time in Northern Virginia back in the early 90s. So yeah what's it like living in Virginia Beach, pal? I love it. I mean, ao this is where the East Coast SEAL, ah the seal East Coast SEALs are in Virginia Beach and the West Coast SEALs are in San Diego. And so when I joined the SEAL teams, my first duty station was Hawaii. ah So I went from San Diego, trainings in San Diego, went to Hawaii for three years, and then in 2001, moved to Virginia Beach and served on the teams here. um I've been here longer. i've been I've been in Virginia Beach now longer than I was in Connecticut, so I think I'm more of a Virginian than I am a Connecticut person. but yeah That's wild. but i you know We love it here. My wife is from Pennsylvania, so she's not too far. ah I think it's it's nicely centralized. It's the three-hour drive from DC, only about a 25-minute flight from DC. um and New York is only about a five-hour drive, if not a 45-minute flight. so i think it's We've loved it. i i'm um
00:28:01
Speaker
It wouldn't surprise anybody to know that I'm a beach guy. That's why I joined the Navy. Because in the Navy, you're always going to be on a coast somewhere. And I couldn't i would never be able to be in the Army or the Air Force because you're in the middle of nowhere on a base. So I need to be by a coast, which I love. um it gets so It gets a little bit humid and hot in the summer, but that's OK because you can just go to the beach and shake it off. ah But yeah, but we we love it here. It's a nice nice place to be. I think it's a well-run city, clean. um It's also, I will say this, it's also very diverse, which I really enjoy. um There's a huge military presence, but there's also a huge industry presence. um there's ah There's an international presence that I really enjoy. so um So I enjoy the diversity as well. You just get to meet a bunch of different people from a different but bunch of different areas. And then you have restaurants. I mean, you name the type of food you can find it here. So ah so yeah, we really enjoy it.
00:28:48
Speaker
I'm a steak man myself. ah It's my favorite food. I'm not allowed to eat it right now ah until this competition's over, which is just annoying as hell. But um I imagine there's some good steakhouses. There are. There are. I love i love steak. It is one of my fears. Although I think sushi, for me, sushi is outranked steak. I like sushi the most. Steak is probably my second best. Sushi's great. i I'm a fan of sushi too, but I'm a sushi snob. there's not a I found some really great sushi restaurants in Toronto and anything that's not up to standard. I didn't want to have it anymore. It's just like, ah it's one of those things. but I know the feeling. I know the feeling, yeah. i'm somewhat i'm I'm somewhat as well, um I will say. In fact, that would years ago, it was it was in the Navy, we were in Dubai, and this was before the war, and my buddy and I went to get sushi, and we were not sushi snobs at the time. We were just like, hey, let's get some sushi, and we both got food poisoning from the place we got sushi, so shortly after that. And then we had to do a mission, we had to do an operation like right after, so we were both like,
00:29:52
Speaker
I mean, bolt yeah just doubled over getting ready for this mission. It was awful. But after that, I became a sushi snopper real quick. so Could I spend some time in Dubai in 98? Neat place. Yeah. I used to shop at ah at a and a supermarket there called Choytrims. And it was pretty cool. And then in Burdabai, you had all these street vendors with street food yeah in the evening. And man, it was like being in a sauna, it was 45 degrees centigrade. Yes. These guys are are making the food, but the food was delicious and cheap at the time. i don't I don't know if that's still the case. I don't know if that's the case. I love Middle Eastern food. I i've always i always have. I know you were in, I was in Dubai back, it was 2000. So around the same time you were, I have not been back. All I know is it's changed considerably since yeah we've been there because it's just growing nonstop. But but even back then it was a fun place. Yeah, it has, it is. they They've definitely done a lot to make that a a destination location for for folks in the world. So yeah cool, man.
00:30:58
Speaker
ah Rich, you're cool, dude. Looking forward to having you on the business show. Enjoyed um learning from you today on the podcast and enjoyed having the this little chit chat about pizza, sushi, Dubai. Yeah. It's just a good way for a couple of men to get connected. Looking forward to you and I yeah meeting in person one of these days. Maybe we'll make the the New Haven thing work. i'll I'll see if I can organize it with your schedule. That might not be a better but bad idea. That'd be cool. and I'm looking forward to doing more having more conversations. I'm i am um putting a book in the mail. so For your audience, if they want to check out the attributes, that's the book I wrote. It talks about these qualities. so so that's ah It's a way you can kind of start introspecting yourself. I'm going to put one in the mail for you so you can check it out.
00:31:44
Speaker
Thank you. Appreciate it. And I just, yeah, i'm I'm very grateful that we're connected. I think this is the beginning of a great um a great friendship. So I'm appreciative of you and everything you do. ah Agreed, brother. And I think you should go on more men's podcasts and talk about issues for men. it's It's a good thing to have a voice like yours out there. So I appreciate that. Thank you. Yeah, you bet. All right. And that's a wrap.
00:32:11
Speaker
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