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Book Club: The House of my Mother by Shari Franke, Part Five, Part Two
73 Plays2 months ago
Thank you for joining us for our final installment of our first book club! We finish up The House of My Mother by Shari Franke by celebrating Shari's new life, and, hopefully, never needing to talk about this family again (we definitely don't want to talk about Ruby, but we hope the rest of the family are living in wonderful peace and out of the spotlight).
Check out our YouTube channel, Fixate Today: Grey Matters
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Transcript
Family Disintegration News
00:00:09
Speaker
All right, chapter 42, true crimes. In the spring of 2023, finally broke the news to Kevin's parents about the family's disintegration. Grandpa Frankie was in his late 80s and Grandma Frankie was nearing 80, and they were woefully out of touch with the digital world where much of the family drama played out.
00:00:29
Speaker
No social media, barely able to operate their iPhones.
Grandparents' Awareness Gap
00:00:32
Speaker
They were relics of a different era and until that day, blissfully unaware of the complexities of our modern family crisis.
00:00:40
Speaker
This made me think of having to tell grandma something horrible that's happening. And like, he's so like, grandpa's like, Hey, they're, they light up when she's there and they're so excited. And she's like, I have to tell you these terrible things.
00:00:56
Speaker
Sherry, what a lovely surprise. Come in, come in. You want some ice cream? Oh, we haven't heard from Kevin in such a long while. He must be busy with work. So this is surprising to me though.
00:01:08
Speaker
I mean, it does show a disconnect.
Limited Contact Surprise
00:01:10
Speaker
I mean, I'm just surprised that i mean they seem like they were were a close family. i mean, even yeah Kevin and his parents growing up. So I was surprised that they had such limited contact with Kevin.
00:01:22
Speaker
Yeah. i do I wonder if ah he was in touch enough. You know what i mean? Like he was recognized that he needed to like check in every now and then or else they'd really know something was wrong.
00:01:37
Speaker
Yeah. ah So she takes a deep breath and she tells them what's happening. It's funny. I don't know. It's being an old-fashioned grandpa weathered and trembling. I don't understand. Kevin left Ruby?
00:01:50
Speaker
She told him to leave. Yeah. And just like
Grandparents' Struggle with News
00:01:56
Speaker
like, it's just like she's breaking down each relationship and just like, well, Ruby hasn't talked to her mother?
00:02:03
Speaker
Like, that's crazy. Ruby loves her mother. And and it's just... It's mind-blowing. Yeah. And she's obviously like trying to be very gentle with them to protect them from a lot of it. But they have a million questions and they want to know a lot, which is understandable.
00:02:19
Speaker
But as Sherry even says, I don't have a lot of answers. Yeah. And, that you know, she keeps pressing over the next few weeks. the The grandma asks, like, there has to be something. Has she heard anything? And Sherry has to get kind of firm and be like, I promise I will tell you.
00:02:34
Speaker
But there's been nothing. But you can see how they feel so. Yeah. She says, I feel so helpless. I hugged her then, feeling the fragility of her frame, the weight of her worry. I wonder what's happened with the family dynamic now with her father.
00:02:50
Speaker
don't know.
Parenting Law Challenges in Utah
00:02:51
Speaker
Yeah. so this section we get into a little bit about like, don't know, kind of the nuts and bolts of Utah law and and what can be done and not be done, things like that.
00:03:00
Speaker
It's 2023, the spring and summer. She kept calling the police in DCF, getting nowhere. And she says, thanks to Utah's free range parenting law, which passed in 2018, the law was intended to protect parents who allow their children more independence. But it was absolutely sabotaging anyone's ability to protect my siblings.
00:03:21
Speaker
So basically it was like people I remember around this time people were getting like CPS called on them for like letting their 10 year old walk to a park. And it was kind of a response to that. I also think if we're going to get into my thoughts about Utah and the LDS church's involvement in the government of Utah, it's a way of protecting any oversight from homeschooling.
00:03:48
Speaker
Yeah.
LDS Church Influence on Parenting Laws
00:03:49
Speaker
Yeah. which means the government is not having eyes on possible abuse via that system. Yeah. I mean, I fundamentally don't disagree with the idea of giving kids more freedoms. like Oh, yeah.
00:04:05
Speaker
Yeah. So it says... Independent activities like walking to school alone, playing outside unsupervised, or staying home by themselves isn't inherently neglectful. But the law's vague language was open to interpretation that could potentially be exploited by those looking to justify genuine and neglect or even abuse.
00:04:23
Speaker
And it also impacted how agencies were even able to respond. Yeah, which is sort of how laws and bills and kind of usually work. And you're right. i think ah I think it's very much infiltrated by the politics ah the of the area are very much infiltrated by the LDS church. yeah For good or for bad.
00:04:46
Speaker
so So there wasn't really much that can be done. Yeah. So she kept doing the same things because what else could she do? She's calling these agencies. These agencies agencies are saying we can't do anything. um I will... i I'm always pro calling if there's something like vague like this, leaning toward And I say this as a as a white woman who doesn't have the same fear of these kind of agencies as a lot of other people do.
00:05:13
Speaker
um But I think there's something and very valuable in having a record. And so at least there's documentation that she's trying That's a good point. And that's about the best she can do.
00:05:25
Speaker
is I'm going to
Controversial Social Media and Discipline Practices
00:05:26
Speaker
keep calling. I'd like it on record, please. Yep. So while this is all happening at the same time, Ruby and Jodi are still plugging away at posting about connect in their connections classroom.
00:05:37
Speaker
um But it's getting like, it's getting scarier. Yeah. It is. This is scarier. When they start talking about social media, claiming it was corrupting children and turning them gay.
00:05:50
Speaker
Well, asserting that being gay was a sin and choice. Yeah. Irony again, they're blaming social media on social media.
00:06:04
Speaker
Yes, exactly. And one of the one of the episodes, I think it of their podcast or videos, out whatever, is when Ruby was like,
00:06:16
Speaker
This was one of the ones I remember people being like, something is really bad. And it was before we knew everything, but it was like, something is wrong. And it's where she said, if your child comes to you on fire, you don't pat them on the head and say, it's okay, I'll help you. No, you beat them and you kick them and you hit them with a rod.
00:06:33
Speaker
Which is so weird. Yeah. I mean, I see, like, I understand a little bit the point she's saying. Like, you know, you make them, you wrap them you you get the fire out. is Yeah. Yeah.
00:06:45
Speaker
But beat them with a rod? it I know. I was like, this is my myre like very black and white ADHD brain is like, well, a rod is usually wood and that would just catch on fire too.
00:06:57
Speaker
Maybe just a good old stop, drop and roll. Right. Find a blanket. You cover them in a blanket. And yes. And then you say, I'm so sorry that might've hurt you. I'm so happy I helped you, but I know that that was horrible and I'm sorry. And I love you. That's what you do.
00:07:13
Speaker
That was just very crazy. ah i mean, the and there's quotation marks around that. So I, yeah, I feel like she's specifically. hmm. Yep. I understand. And I'm also like so sad that Sherry's watching all of these things because she's like, there's no contact with my siblings and I need to know what is happening to them. And and they're talking about welts and hitting with a rod. and yeah But still, that's not enough.
00:07:40
Speaker
That's not evidence that they're doing anything to the actual kid. And do you think at this point she she believes it really is happening? don't, I mean, I certainly don't believe she understands to the extent it's happening. think if she doesn't believe like fully that it's actually happening, she knows that it is possible any minute that it could be.
00:08:01
Speaker
yeah um But yeah, I don't think there was a way to understand the gravity of it. It's such a it's earned up it's abstract at this point. It's a possibility. But then once you get into like, no, this is the the reality of it is is too much.
00:08:20
Speaker
Because she even says, well, was this a hypothetical scenario or an admission? Casual way she spoke of inflicting harm on a child. Made my skin crawl.
00:08:30
Speaker
Yeah. So that June 2023, she found out that her dad had, she says, abruptly ah abandoned his professor position at BYU.
Kevin's Job and Financial Stability
00:08:41
Speaker
So he has quit his job and it's a job that was a part of who he is. It was his passion, what he was, his work.
00:08:50
Speaker
This really confuses me. And I kind of wish there was some more follow-up. I don't understand. I don't understand why he did. i don't understand. i mean, he seemed to have some sense of responsibility about finances.
00:09:06
Speaker
Where's the family income coming from now? i don I just don't understand why he would do that. That's all he had in life at that point, it seems. It's also a confusing thing from Connect because it was one of the things, like Jodi told him to quit his job.
00:09:18
Speaker
earlier at this point? I'm assuming at this point, it was another thing of like, you have to even, cause there, I can't remember. I read it or heard it somewhere that one of the former people who was in connections was like, yeah, she was telling you like to fix your marriage. so you have to get down to like, you're nothing. There's nothing defined about you. You can't like, you have to quit everything. You have to sit in your apartment that you have by yourself because you're not with your family.
00:09:45
Speaker
and tear yourself down to nothing to start rebuilding yourself in truth. And that means if you have to quit your job so you can focus on on your the work you have to do, that's what you do.
00:09:57
Speaker
Which seems very short-sighted to me because yes, Jodi needed all of these men to have an income. Right. But those who did, they were less able to, I guess, take control back of their lives if they didn't.
00:10:10
Speaker
Yep. There's another journal entry. So she makes, ah you know, he worked in like studying earthquakes, basically. And she makes a metaphor about like he had the ability to like save people.
00:10:26
Speaker
dedicated his life to protecting people. And he's just abandoned it all. Forget earthquakes, Kevin. The ground beneath our feet was already crumbling. Yep.
00:10:38
Speaker
So in the journal, she writes, Insightful positive affirmation. Hopeful.
00:10:44
Speaker
it also happens to be pioneer day in a way i feel like i'm a pioneer for myself and family i'm breaking generations of abuse
Sherry's Housing and Independence
00:10:52
Speaker
and evil i will be better to my kids than my parents ever worded theirs insightful and positive affirmation hopeful Yeah.
00:11:02
Speaker
So on top of everything, she has to find a new place to live. Yeah. We're forgetting she just has day-to-day problems in here, too. Yeah. She's she's playing adult. Yeah. Nope. She's figuring out her life. Yeah.
00:11:14
Speaker
And um so the lease was ending. She couldn't go home. And she had lined up a one-bedroom apartment, but the Problem is that Derek had co-signed it. And I don't even think she understood what co-signing meant, which... No.
00:11:29
Speaker
Which she wouldn't. So she didn't quite know what to do. Yeah. Yeah. So she... And it was another way of Derek making her dependent on him. and marketing Yeah.
00:11:40
Speaker
Yeah. So she found some students who had an extra room in their apartment and, like, a couple of days before the semester started of her junior year, she moved in. Thankfully the apartment letter out of minor, minor thing, but yeah, they understood.
00:11:57
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. But still take the wins, Sherry. Anytime somebody is understanding. And I would think that the aunts could have helped. like I would think that that would have been, um but at least the one that lives like five minutes away, but I don't think she wanted to burden. Yeah.
00:12:11
Speaker
Well, and it's also like, she's done so much on her own. Yeah. It's, Might be not even a thing. Kind of like we said earlier, out of sight, out of mind. and So she might not have even thought to reach out to someone else for help figuring it out.
00:12:24
Speaker
Also, I do think she always had the Haymans. If she had to go stay with them until she found something better, I think she would have.
Family Reunion and True Crime Parallels
00:12:32
Speaker
But Derek probably knew where they lived. And she didn't want that.
00:12:36
Speaker
So we have another journal entry. I get the feeling something is going to happen with my family soon. I can't tell if it will be good or bad, but I feel it will be big. But I refuse to believe after everything I've gone through in the past year that I won't be given an opportunity to help my family be together again.
00:12:52
Speaker
i will do whatever God wants from me in order to achieve that. So, yes, after she's moved in, she's watching some true crime and she watches the documentary Sins of Our Mother about Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell.
00:13:07
Speaker
Story we referred to earlier. yep And actually, exactly what she's talking about, we've talked about on the podcast. ah Sherry writes, the couple were immersed in the same extreme religious beliefs and doomsday preparation as Jodi and Ruby.
00:13:21
Speaker
And the way this family spiraled into darkness felt horribly familiar. Their intense belief in the second coming and their obsession with Tom Harrison's vision of glory prophecies. It was all the same stuff Ruby and Jodi were going always going on about.
00:13:36
Speaker
But it wasn't until watching that documentary that my hope faded into the darkest thoughts I'd had yet. too Ruby and Jodi were just as unhinged as Chad and Lori, if not worse. If we don't do something soon, my siblings are going to die.
00:13:50
Speaker
Which feels like a really big jump. Like things are really getting elevated in her mind. Yeah. and We talked ah talked about it on the podcast. I firmly believe that her siblings were going to die.
00:14:01
Speaker
I think it was going to be the same fate as JJ and Tylee. I wonder. Colby has, I guess i he has a YouTube channel and his plan going forward is to meet with and interview um other victims and survivors survivors of this type of tragedy.
Exploring Systemic Issues
00:14:22
Speaker
So I wonder, I wonder, I know she's, I know Sherry's always said she's, you know, she's done talking after this and that's it. But no. I wonder if they've, they've even spoken privately. Yeah, I do too. Cause very, very similar. Yeah. um I do want to,
00:14:38
Speaker
ah Shout out another podcast that they are doing a crazy deep dive on exactly this. And it actually started around the same time we covered this on the podcast. And I was like, oh, cool. This like massive podcast is doing the same thing. Oh, no.
00:14:53
Speaker
um But it's someplace underneath. I use their stuff a lot with the mica case also. okay But they've done, like, they they were doing episodes about um missing children and women and things like that. And then this season, they were like, so many of our cases have been from Utah and have LDS ties. They are doing this massive series on basically, like, the history of the LDS church.
00:15:18
Speaker
And... so much of what they've covered is this exactly this the connections to visions of glory they're you know all the things like this is a big deal yeah um yep and they're talking about stuff that like i didn't even realize was related so so if anybody wants more information someplace underneath tangent again but i i want to do we kind of have been working on this stuff with south south carolina um And, well, we've done the Mike Miller story very in-depth, and we're going to do Murdoch. But it's the same thing. There's a lot of connections.
00:15:57
Speaker
Right. It's not coincidence. But but but but at these half things happen and in these places. Because for a while, how weird is it that you know that big things happen you know and and um with these certain groups in these certain areas?
00:16:14
Speaker
But it's not coincidence all the time. And I'd like to really explore that. And it's also how the state laws allow or prevent certain things from happening and how people can find loopholes. and i mean, how corrupt officials create those laws and loopholes.
00:16:31
Speaker
um So she gets another call. Yeah. Her neighbors are still in her corner. ah i did. i love this. ah They were right there for me, leaving food on the doorsteps of the house in case the kids were hungry. Making call after call to DCFS, voicing their concerns about the kids being left alone.
00:16:52
Speaker
Yeah, they were. i feel like they probably thought their hands were tied, too. Yeah. By hearing, you know, the authorities hearing it from multiple people and multiple people like truly involved in it. Right. um Right. To the actual situation.
00:17:05
Speaker
Right. So yeah. August 30th, 2023. Sherry gets a phone call from a neighbor. Sherry, the police are at your mother's house. And with that, the chapter and we're on to chapter 43, the house of my mother.
00:17:23
Speaker
I stood there paralyzed on the front lawn, my breath shallow, my hands shaking. The red and blue lights of the squad cars strobed as I stood in front of my house, frozen.
00:17:34
Speaker
Ruby's white eight-passenger's van sat in the driveway like a beached whale gleaming under the pulsing lights. Please, God, let the children be okay. I prayed silently, my heart in my throat.
00:17:46
Speaker
So didn't realize this. They battering rammed at the door. yeah Yeah. And then Seems like as soon as she got there, i mean, that's got to be a crazy thing to to witness in your own house.
00:17:56
Speaker
Could Sherry been like, I got through the dog door once.
00:18:03
Speaker
I don't know. I would not be surprised if she had said that. you know, right? And they're like, no, no, we got it. yeah So ah the house is even more packed up. Ruby was ready to move.
00:18:16
Speaker
Despite seeing all of that, the kids are not there. Police everyone out now. Yeah, but the the house is empty. And this is where um ah she just says something so simple.
00:18:28
Speaker
This couldn't be real. And we've all had situations where you're like, this yeah this cannot be real life. Yeah. Well, she sits down with a detective and they start talking.
00:18:39
Speaker
um She asks where the kids are and he says, I can't tell you right now, but they're safe. And he confirms that Jodi and Ruby were both arrested. Both women have been charged with multiple counts of aggravated child abuse and they've been denied bail.
00:18:54
Speaker
And she wants to know what the part aggravated means. And he says, typically it involves repeated acts of abuse over time, showing a pattern of cruelty. it can also include extreme neglect, confinement, or intentional of infliction of serious physical harm on a child.
00:19:12
Speaker
Each word was a dagger twisting deeper into my heart. I'm so sorry, Sherry. At this point, like, she doesn't really know. you're hearing these words, but she doesn't know what it means.
00:19:27
Speaker
It's still abstract. ah yeah Yeah. She doesn't even know where they are. Gotta be just gut-wrenching to be in that position of knowing something so bad has taken place, but...
00:19:40
Speaker
But not being able to yeah to get the full story. So she goes um back home. she So she I finally surrendered to the tsunami of emotions. So she's sobbing in her bed.
00:19:51
Speaker
But she's repeating to herself, Ruby will never touch them again. Jodi will never touch them again. And she finally drifted, says, to an exhausted sleep. My mind and body drained.
00:20:03
Speaker
But she still knew there'd be a long road ahead. Mm-hmm. And there's a lot of rebuilding of relationships. She doesn't know their physical condition. yep and I don't think at this point she could even imagine that the scenario was even as bad as it really was.
00:20:19
Speaker
No, no. All right Chapter 44, Rings of Remembrance. DCFS had custody of all of my siblings except Chad. I still didn't know exactly what Ruby and Jodi had done to the youngest ones.
00:20:33
Speaker
No one really did at this point. I focused on the now and the knowledge that they were finally safe from harm far away from Ruby and Jodi. just think about it from their perspective. The little ones kind of aren't, they're just away from everyone right now.
00:20:47
Speaker
They're kind of separated. Yeah. In addition to going through this trauma, then, yeah, nobody's really with them at this point. Yeah. Nobody, nobody, they yeah nobody in the family.
00:20:59
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, so she, Sherry goes into kind of what happened when Ruby and Jodi were both taken into custody. um She says they both played dumb. Ruby refused to speak, which we have seen that video. She is.
00:21:13
Speaker
Oh, my goodness. Weird. Weird. But Jodi, and I just think this is so telling of her character, she's playing the role of a traumatized victim. She can't believe this is happening. And it's all misunderstanding. She works with the police.
00:21:30
Speaker
Such a chameleon. So they were processed and then they were relocated together from St. George to Purgatory Correctional Facility in Hurricane, Utah.
00:21:42
Speaker
The irony of the name wasn't lost on me as I tried to imagine their journey. That's fine. So it does say, though, that the that Ruby says that the drive was spent in silence, saying she couldn't bear to speak to or even look at Jodi.
00:21:58
Speaker
Now... yeah That doesn't seem truthful to me. I don't think so. I'm probably somewhere that they sang hymns together. I heard that too. Now, I mean, of course we can't know.
00:22:11
Speaker
sharp Sure, sure. but But it makes it sound like, yeah, at that point she ah quickly realized that Jodi had duped her. Yeah. but But that's not true because she goes on to defend Jodi for quite a while while in prison.
00:22:27
Speaker
So I just thought that that was strange that she had claimed to that. Yeah. Yeah. So I think Ruby was absolutely lying. Like, I think they were comforting each other, holding each other for the last time.
00:22:39
Speaker
They had. I think it was very dramatic.
00:22:43
Speaker
Now this is where any of our listeners, I don't know if people have seen the videos at this point. feel like most people, if they're interested in this story have, but because Kevin goes, gets pulled into the police station.
00:22:57
Speaker
He gets called over to pick up his kids. Yeah. Yeah, he needs to be interrogated. It's his kids who were abused. He's a suspect. And he comes in and says, when he's asked about his family, I haven't seen them for over a year.
00:23:11
Speaker
I've been separated from my wife and family. I have some problems. And I feel like the police, like this was almost too hard for them to believe. yeah. yeah They were gobsmacked. I thought so too.
00:23:25
Speaker
Yeah. Because I watched his interrogation. His was one of the first I watched because, again, glimpse into ADHD brain. and I tend to get when I'm like watching videos or researching or something, I get the shorter ones done in like a big chunk. And then I save the bigger ones for like later when I can like read.
00:23:43
Speaker
don't know. refresh my mind and then come back to it. So it was one of the shorter ones. And I was like, I'll just watch a bunch of these together. And so his was one of the first before I watched anything else.
00:23:54
Speaker
And yeah, I remember being like, the police don't believe you. And I don't think I do. And then more comes out. You're like, oh, it's even wilder to believe I think his interrogation was, was the most bizarre. Yeah.
00:24:08
Speaker
I think it was more bizarre than, than Judy and or than Jody and Ruby. Yeah. Yeah. It was, But completely, like, once you figure out and once you know all everything going on, it was completely in line with what Ruby and Jodi were selling him.
00:24:24
Speaker
But it's if without that context, you're like, I don't understand what's happening. Right. But, yeah, it was truly genuine. He had no idea. Yeah. He had no idea.
00:24:36
Speaker
What kind of condition his kids were in. Yeah. I don't know if he saw them. I don't know how quickly after. he hadn't seen. he he got He got interrogated before he saw them. And then did he see them soon after that? I think they showed him pictures of the boys' wounds. And he was like, what?
00:24:57
Speaker
Like almost couldn't believe it. I think he thought. I don't know if it's in here or I don't know where. I don't know. um But I think he thought at first they were tricking him because they're such a distrust of the police. And so he was like, this is fake. You're lying type of thing.
00:25:15
Speaker
She says the disconnect between Kevin's calm demeanor and the reality of what had happened was staggering. He was living in an alternate universe. And he was. Yeah. I don't think I've ever seen them talking to Sherry, the police interrogating Sherry.
00:25:29
Speaker
Maybe they, because they decide what gets released and what doesn't. And if it wasn't going to be used at trial, well, then there wasn't a trial. I think if they had used that at trial, it would have gone public.
00:25:40
Speaker
Yeah. And so hopefully they just chose not to. So yeah, through all of this, Kevin is like still confused. He couldn't understand why she wanted to sell the house and like all of these quote investments that he was telling her to like sign money over and do this and sign this and do all these things. he was just doing it.
00:26:02
Speaker
It's so crazy. I mean, he had been completely brainwashed. Yeah. And, and believed somehow that abandoning The family was therapeutic. Yeah. And she says, luckily, Ruby's arrest happened before she had a chance to put any paperwork in front of him and strip away the family's assets.
00:26:19
Speaker
I don't know. He explained his role. My job is to be is to financially provide. I pay the bills. That's my job. I provide the money, which goes into a shared bank account.
00:26:30
Speaker
i don't know. so That's just so weird because I guess he has been paying the bills for a while, but it's just kind of ironic since really the channel had been their main source of income for so long.
00:26:44
Speaker
Right. And then he quit his job. And then he quit his job. I do. like I mean, they had a ton of money. Did they? I mean, hopefully put away that they could use.
00:26:54
Speaker
I mean, because I'm confused about that because she drains the kids. am too. I mean, I assume the same thing. But then she drains the kids' savings accounts. Yeah, I know.
00:27:06
Speaker
might The only thing that... because that's I mean, that's why Jodi got involved with her. was like She had so much money. He could quit his job and like live in his little townhouse and be okay.
00:27:20
Speaker
While she had the income coming in from eight passengers, right? Right. imagine And I think the channel was still up. The Moms yeah Truth. Yeah. at this time and even hate watching something is ad revenue but um so one of the prepper things of like the prepper community is having cash yeah and so i wonder if she took away his access to the kids accounts And took the cash out of the kids' accounts. And that was that $85,000.
00:27:54
Speaker
That was found in Jodi's home. Right. And he wouldn't know that. Yeah. If she took away access to their accounts. That's true.
00:28:05
Speaker
That's, I mean, I guess that, yeah, she would have probably been on their accounts. And because I'm on my kids' accounts from when they were little and my husband's not. I mean, just. Right. Because you were the one who probably set them up.
00:28:17
Speaker
So, yeah, that but that could be. That was what could be true. Yeah. I always was kind of curious about their financial situation because, yeah, it seems like they should have had a lot of yeah money put away. But then she was concerned about signing the cars over.
00:28:31
Speaker
I don't know I mean, they had to because nobody was working and they had to be burning. like Nobody's working. They had to be burning through what they had. And yeah they, you know, we find out that they had this dream to buy land in Arizona. So let's let's sell everything and get as much of a nest egg for our troubled teen center. here ah So, I mean, Kevin was still confused as to why he had been called in for questioning that.
00:28:58
Speaker
Until police painted a picture of what they suspected Jodi and Ruby had done to the youngest siblings. And Kevin was shocked then. Yeah.
00:29:09
Speaker
But even still, he's asking, what's going to happen to my wife? I love my wife. not asking about strange it's hard to understand ah huh so we go to a phone call between ruby and kevin while she was in jail while she was in purgatory i don't know purgatory is jail or prison but yeah think it's um she says i am completely misunderstood this just this is oh it's great so it's like nails on a chalkboard hearing her say these things
00:29:41
Speaker
I know. I've listened. you probably listened to it, too. Like, oh, gosh. And she's just going like everyone misunderstands her and poor Jodi. She knows all of these brilliant things, but nobody will listen.
00:29:58
Speaker
And she compares herself to Joseph Smith, the the leader or founder of the LDS church. But you know what? Like Joseph Smith, every wonderful man of God has been misunderstood.
00:30:10
Speaker
I'm going to get out of this. Who knows? Maybe in 10 days I'll get out of this. Crazy. Yeah. Love to know what was going through. um Kevin's. Well, he says there's a long pause.
00:30:23
Speaker
And after she's going off and he says, I'm committed to our family. I'm committed to you and our marriage, no matter what happened. And I, I just like, I know this probably isn't the case. Cause I think he was, well, yeah, he was still brainwashed at this point and still buying it.
00:30:38
Speaker
But I want to imagine that he said it completely monotone. Like I just got to get off the phone with this woman. She said during this call, God spoke to me when I was driving before I called you.
00:30:50
Speaker
The spirit said, Your children are going to be removed. Now, at that point, obviously you're acknowledging that whatever situation you put your child in, the children were in, was completely wrong.
00:31:03
Speaker
So you're aware that what you were doing is wrong. But remember, she thinks she doesn't think they're wrong. She thinks the world is wrong for thinking they're wrong. Yeah.
00:31:13
Speaker
Also, I'm assuming by this point that she knows that the young boy has escaped. so well that's I don't know if our God the spirit speaking to her. I think there's a little bit of yeah logic yeah going on.
00:31:26
Speaker
And she's expressing such confusion about why anybody would be so worried about the kids. I don't understand why they're in the hospital. They're perfectly fine, she declared.
00:31:36
Speaker
Throughout this whole book, it doesn't seem like anyone really ever shows a whole lot of compassion or concern for the kids, other than Sherry. Now, it doesn't mean right that Kevin wasn't feeling differently, but she definitely doesn't convey that.
00:31:52
Speaker
yeah Even he was too concerned about the their physical well-being. Yeah. So this was like the weird part where Sherry goes to the house. She asks the police if she can go in the house and just grab some stuff.
00:32:04
Speaker
Yes. Journals, cell phones, passports, just the sure the things she wanted to make sure were safe. um And I don't blame her at all because i don't I don't feel like Kevin was in the right frame of mind to even be thinking about these things.
00:32:19
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. So, ah and at this point, she did find one of Ruby's laptops, knew the password, and read some text messages and emails and journal entries, and it was confirmed to her that the nature of the relationship with Jodi and Ruby was, had spilled over into the physical.
00:32:42
Speaker
Yeah. um And she says like she didn't read on what happened between Well, but after. After
00:32:52
Speaker
Ruby expressed some frustration at having to cater to Jodi without Jodi reciprocating.
00:33:00
Speaker
Yuck. And then Sherry like, that's when she didn't. She's like, I'm good.
00:33:05
Speaker
She says it much more eloquently in the book, but I'm good. Also, I, I guess when this all happened, when she had taken the items from the house, I was confused. Cause I was like, well, she wasn't living there. Like she did kind of take the items from the house. She did it for a good reason, but is Kevin wrong? Like Kevin's wrong morally, but is he wrong and being like, those aren't her items, get them back.
00:33:29
Speaker
Um, But then it's like, she was with a police officer. I don't think we've said, like Kevin freaked out. Yeah, I think that's the next chapter. Okay, okay, sorry, sorry. But that's, but this, like, I didn't realize, like, an officer was with her when she did this. I kind of thought she just, like, went to the house and was like, yeah, I live here. I'm getting my stuff. Right.
00:33:47
Speaker
But the police were with her and we're like, yeah, take that. So that makes what Kevin did in the next chapter, like, even more upsetting to me is, like, she had an authority figure saying, yeah, do this.
00:33:59
Speaker
Yeah. And at this point, a crime was committed. Yeah. And all that is evidence also... I guess they must've taken taken with adam what they needed. and So during this trip to the house, she does take some trinkets and she kind of wanders around the house trying to decide what, I think she knows this is the last time that she's going to be in this I mean, it ultimately isn't, but she feels like it's last time that she's ever going to be here. going to take what I want.
00:34:25
Speaker
um So she goes into Ruby and Kevin's room and her eyes land on Ruby's ornate jewelry box. And in the box, she finds their wedding rings.
00:34:36
Speaker
She got like the first engagement ring he got her and then like upgrade engagement ring. And she ends up taking the rings.
00:34:48
Speaker
I think the wedding bands or like the first, or the first engagement ring in the wedding bands. She said, almost without thinking, I slid both bands onto my fingers. Ruby didn't deserve those rings. Not after what she'd done.
00:34:59
Speaker
I stared at my hand, making a silent bow of eternal remembrance. I will never forget what you did, Ruby. i promised myself staring hard at the bands on my fingers. And then she says, was it possible that all the love, all the attraction had been one sided?
00:35:15
Speaker
And I don't think it was. I mean, think it was very mutual. I think Ruby... very mutual um i think ruby did love Kevin. Yeah. I think Kevin loved her more. Maybe, maybe I think, no, I do think she did, but I think he checked all the boxes from her, her list on the, in the closet.
00:35:34
Speaker
And, um, I think he would have done anything for her. And she was like, great. um Well, I see that, but I do think she loved i do too. I agree. Chapter 45 evidence in plain sight.
00:35:48
Speaker
So this is when, yeah, Kevin like like was furious. Yeah, yeah. Kevin was furious when he found out that I'd gone home and taken those journals, tablets, cell phones, and everyone's passports from the house, even though I was accompanied by the police.
00:36:04
Speaker
He was still so ill, so brainwashed back then, still loyal to Ruby and Jodi above all. And he was very outspoken. I mean, didn't he? He talked about pressing charges.
00:36:16
Speaker
and He wanted, yeah, he was like, go arrest her. And she just felt bad for him. So she did give the items that he was complaining about back to the police. And she's just like, whatever.
00:36:28
Speaker
actually wondered why was he so upset over this? Yeah. was' there it Was it deeper? Was there information he was worried about? Was it was it something deeper or was it just?
00:36:42
Speaker
Right. I just kind kind of curious. Yeah, I know. So at first, Ruby spoke out in defense of Jodi. Yeah. That loyalty quickly dissolved and she realized she could improve her own situation by turning on her friend.
00:37:00
Speaker
Yeah. So it was like ah she pleaded guilty to four counts. But the sentencing didn't happen then. And with the plea, it could mean that she got the least amount of time ah that I think was like yeah a year for each count or something very small.
00:37:18
Speaker
So while it's like, I think better for everybody that there wasn't a trial, still it's, it's, she could have manipulated her way out of trial. punishment.
00:37:29
Speaker
And that's Sherry's fear. So yeah, with um the sentencing, the max was 30 years and the possible, the minimum was four years.
00:37:40
Speaker
ah so Yeah, that's what I thought. So she could have possibly gotten four years for all of this. And with the plea, that was a real possibility.
00:37:51
Speaker
So after the arrest, thankfully Sherry's still in therapy, but The emotional, she calls it the emotional storm that hit was about Derek and unraveling that.
00:38:07
Speaker
And she couldn't figure out. She's like, why am I, why is this hitting me now? Like there's so many other things. And I don't know why. Yeah. She writes, Ruby had implanted in me a very effective mechanisms for intense guilt, shame, and self-loathing.
00:38:19
Speaker
The situation with Derek was the first real world instance where I faced the repercussions of this conditioning. Understanding this connection was crucial. My experience with Derek was the first example of how my inner critic could lead me to a dangerous mental state fraught with anxiety, panic attacks, and self-blame.
00:38:38
Speaker
A state that for many can lead to suicidal thoughts. And she did say that she got to the point where she questioned her will to live. Yeah. Yeah. So with her therapist, with Dana, they kind of figured out she, they had to deal with the Derek stuff first before they could get into the horrors of everything else.
00:38:57
Speaker
Yeah. And that's where I said at at first it didn't make sense to me, but upon thinking about it further. Yeah. It did. I mean, it does. She had to take care of that. Right. Right. Immediate anxiety. and Yeah. Yeah.
00:39:10
Speaker
Guilt that she has. So in December 2023, Ruby called Chad from prison. um And Sherry happened to be with him at the time. Yeah, we haven't really heard much about yeah Chad during this.
00:39:23
Speaker
Yeah. And actually, because Sherry does a really good job of not telling the story of her siblings. Yes, she does. Just telling her story. Yeah. So Ruby is speaking to him about how she like really is diving into scriptures.
00:39:37
Speaker
She discusses ah the Doctrine and Covenants, which is one of the foundational texts of the LDS Church. She says, Christ had a bitter cup he didn't want to drink, but he did, and because that was his mission.
00:39:49
Speaker
I'm drinking my bitter cup now. So she is still the martyr. And there she was once again, Ruby, fallen family vlogger, comparing herself to Christ on the cross.
00:40:02
Speaker
Yeah. And Chad and I locked eyes, mine with disbelief, his dark with disgust. But publicly, um the the narrative had shifted dramatically.
00:40:15
Speaker
She's the model of remorse and humility. Right. To one of humility and contrition. She was used to acting, right? I mean, yeah. Yeah. Her legal team.
00:40:27
Speaker
She began to describe her arrest as the strangest and most miraculous intervention. But ultimately nothing changes what she's done. It doesn't matter.
00:40:38
Speaker
And Sherry points out that all the evidence was on the vlog. hu There is no excuse. yeah Everything the world has seen Is out there.
00:40:49
Speaker
is out yeah However, it was going to be difficult to put all this together. um So even the connections courses that plays into it, all of it is evidence.
00:41:00
Speaker
Right. This is an interesting part, I think, where she thinks about going through the videos and that just was overwhelming. So she posted a story on Instagram inviting people to DM her with questionable or concerning clips from Ruby's friends.
00:41:20
Speaker
videos sherry compiled the evidence and she it got so overwhelming she doesn't use the word overwhelming she says immediate supportive enthusiastic but i think it was overwhelming so she created a google doc that um people could post the links directly in there so it's yeah it's everything which that i mean again that's one of those things like so was that was that good for her or bad for her hopefully this means she didn't have to watch it but People were doing the work for her. That's
00:41:53
Speaker
For her. She says, what an ironic reversal. The woman obsessed with sharing her most intimate intimate family moments online in exchange for fame and money was about to be exposed by those same videos.
00:42:04
Speaker
Evidence of her sins. Proof of her mean and bizarre parenting philosophies. And then there was the Connections Classroom, hours and hours of footage showcasing Ruby and Jodi preaching their dangerous ideology.
00:42:18
Speaker
Their obsession with pain, their vitriol against children, and those struggling with mental health issues. Yeah. And I loved this because I didn't think about it, but this was the Connections Classroom was truly Jodi's manifesto.
00:42:34
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Laid bare. Mm-hmm. So it says the harsh reality was hitting Ruby at this point. But Sherry says, Ruby, you did this to yourself.
00:42:46
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. It doesn't seem to be a lot of sympathy at this point. She is, you know, it's hard because she is still mother. Her mother says the thought of anyone, even Ruby, living in constant fear was unsettling.
00:43:01
Speaker
But she deserved it. And it was her own actions. All right. Chapter 46, Home Sweet Home. So life's getting a little bit back to normal, it seems. Again, we don't hear much about what has happened in between. a lot of that has to do with the kid's privacy.
00:43:18
Speaker
Yeah. Kevin had moved back into our house permanently. Every night he slept alone in his too big bed in his too quiet house haunted by if onlys, caught in an endless feedback loop of his own failures, the warning signs he overlooked, the moments he could have been braver, stronger, better.
00:43:37
Speaker
But the past can't be unwritten. It can only be reckoned with, learned from, one brutal day at the at a time. seems like somewhat of an understatement, honestly, still. But I guess...
00:43:48
Speaker
I guess words can't always... ah Yeah. So she acknowledges he had been making huge huge strides. He was in therapy. And ah they decided that they could kind of help each other in recovering from this all.
00:44:04
Speaker
It seems like still at a little bit of a distance. Yes. It was taking... it It took time for them to build Absolutely. Yeah. And I don't even know if they have built back Fultrace.
00:44:15
Speaker
Yeah. I don't think... I don't think... They have. um But from what I've seen from Kevin, it seems like he's like, yeah, I get it and I deserve it. And um he's accepted his, not entirely, I don't think, but in terms of like rebuilding the relationship with Sherry, he's like, you have to do what you have to do to feel comfortable and safe with me. And if that's calling me Kevin, do it.
00:44:42
Speaker
So I could tell he was trying to make things better to his, to repair his relationship with the kids And to prepare the home for the kids' eventual return. But he did have to prove to authorities that he was responsible enough to be a father again.
00:44:57
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And I think it took a while. It took a long time for the kids to to be allowed to go back home. And i I do hope they were with family during that time. Yeah, me too. He starts doing things to make what was once like their stark studio of a home.
00:45:16
Speaker
into an actual home. They get two puppies, Ren and Stimpy. It seems like that was a very, very good, as much as I'm not a dog person, seems like that was a good way to start. yeah They clean out like the pantry, which it seems like they're kind of cleaning out, like, especially the like prepper type items.
00:45:34
Speaker
Yeah. It says they kept some of the things, but most of it got cleaned out. lot of donated goods, um except for the cans expired by five years.
00:45:45
Speaker
Well, I have those too. Right. Exactly. um But he says, as long as we have enough to feed us for a few months, that's all we need. He said, the rest is just clutter. It's creating the home in his, the vision he he wants. Yep. He let them decorate their rooms.
00:46:02
Speaker
He said, and you know what? You can all have TVs in your rooms too.
00:46:06
Speaker
and I think it's, some of it is like, I got to make up. I got to be Disney dad a little bit. i Oh yeah. Yeah. And um I mean, Sherry acknowledges, though, that until the kids were back home, she was still not able to relax.
00:46:20
Speaker
And that Christmas of 2023, they still the kids still weren't home. So it was just Kevin and her. i was surprised. I doesn't there's no mention of Chad. Yeah. I don't know.
00:46:32
Speaker
But I love this part. I do. They were basically trying to cheer themselves up, I guess, in that moment. And they decided to get cats. Yeah. It's like, you know what?
00:46:43
Speaker
I want a cat.
00:46:46
Speaker
That's how we ended up with Katniss, Kevin's cat, and Muppet, who would be mine, my son in cat form. don't know. I guess because I am a cat person. I think that's so sweet. No, it really is.
00:46:59
Speaker
I think had things been different and Kevin would have been allowed to be a little bit more, not even impulsive, but like, let's just go do this. yeah, yeah. And just like the fun that they could have had. Mm-hmm.
00:47:11
Speaker
I think it was always in him, but it was like not allowed. to Yeah. And then this is so interesting because, know, Sherry says, now that I was a parent, albeit to a feline, I found it even more impossible to understand what Ruby and Jodi meant about the hardships of motherhood, the dangers of putting the needs of a little bundle of joy above your own. Yeah.
00:47:36
Speaker
Which is so true. It is hard to understand that. And even taking care, yeah. We, ah our dog had his first training class today and the instructor had to tell me to like, I was like bending down and like getting in his face and ah being like, okay, sit and being all sweet with him. He's like, you have to like be assertive.
00:47:56
Speaker
was But he's so cute.
00:48:00
Speaker
So funny. Like, fine. Well, and that works really well with the next thing I had highlighted was they were talking about obedience. And, um... Uh-huh.
00:48:13
Speaker
Well, and anyone who knows cats knows that they are and not, um that ah cats are are not, you're really not able to discipline them. So she says, obedience, forget about it. I can only imagine trying to explain to Muppet that his lust for Cheez-Its was distorted that he was going to be damned.
00:48:33
Speaker
Lust for Cheez-Its. That's funny. But she says that she will never be putting him on YouTube, that their special moments are just for them. Well, it would be cute. It would be cute.
00:48:44
Speaker
Jump ahead to chapter 47, Judgment Day. Yeah, we open with a journal entry. as much as I don't love the woman, Ruby is my mother and deserves a free and fair trial. I'm devastated I don't get privacy in any of this, but that's been my life for a long time.
00:49:00
Speaker
And that stinks. Yeah. So we are at February 20th, 2024. And this is the day of Ruby's sentencing. Kevin, Sherry, and Chad attend the sentencing together.
00:49:12
Speaker
they have a four hour drive to go to St. George. Yep. And what they focused on in that drive was how they could get restitution from Jodi. She had just listed her house on the market in what appeared to be an attempt to get rid of her assets.
00:49:28
Speaker
So she wouldn't have to pay any sort of restitution. But yeah, they is they were working with their attorney to get a freeze on her liquidating her assets, I think.
00:49:41
Speaker
Yeah. And what they wanted was basically these kids are going to need mental health care for the rest of their lives. And that was the only thing they wanted. They wanted to have the funds to provide the best mental health care for them.
00:49:54
Speaker
I think it's so interesting. Again, you just have those moments. We arrived in St. George and had a strangely normal evening. The three of us eating food and watching basketball. Yeah. um It was like old times.
00:50:08
Speaker
um So the next morning they met up with the prosecutor and a victim's advocate. There was had been an agreed upon sentence, but it's really the judge's discretion if he decides not to.
00:50:19
Speaker
do that or to do less or whatever he can it was unlikely but it's possible they walk there and and the they're really happy to see the lack of media presence outside the court yes and so they're they're kind of like relieved um that that it is so minimal thank god they got a reprieve from this circus however the media wasn't there because they were inside the courtroom oh As they walked in, every head in the room swiveled in our direction. A sea of curious eyes fixed upon us.
00:50:54
Speaker
Yep. So they sat down in the front row and Ruby was let in first. Sherry says, I couldn't bear to look at her. My heart was hard. I was filled with disgust. I fixed my gaze upon the judge.
00:51:06
Speaker
And this is where Ruby gives her Oscar worthy performance, her speech of It's just, you gotta watch the video. It's just weird. If anyone wants, you have to watch the video of what she says in the courtroom.
00:51:22
Speaker
So, yeah, of course she paints herself as the ultimate victim and how she's been deceived for so long. I mean, which you know she's going to right? I mean, you know that's going to happen. She's trying to. Yep.
00:51:34
Speaker
But... This is where it gets so weird. She launched into a laundry list of thank yous to every officer, lawyer, and judge who had snatched her out of the hell she didn't know how to get out of.
00:51:48
Speaker
But she did that first. And she did, like, it went on for a long time. It really did. It wasn't like an overview of, it was listing each and every name. Yeah.
00:52:00
Speaker
Yeah. So after that, oh, I want to read what she says. she Sherry says, are you sure, Ruby? i silently question the preposterous notion that she had been trapped, helpless to escape the nightmare that she had willingly perpetuated was an insult to the court and to the world.
00:52:17
Speaker
Yeah. So after that, she tells Kevin that he's the love of her life. And he just kind of put his head down. So after that, says, after thanking everyone and their dog, Ruby finally turned her attention to me and my siblings.
00:52:31
Speaker
She doesn't use their names, but she calls them the six little, her six little chicks. And she's the mama duck. Which it almost seems like she's, she's back in the role of her vlogging mom self.
00:52:42
Speaker
Absolutely. Yeah. So she was the mama duck who had been dragged into a current while trying to lead. them to safety but she never acknowledges her parenting styles pre-jodi there's no apology sherry writes listening to her hollow words i wondered if in her narcissistic mind ruby would ever fully comprehend the gravity of her actions or experience genuine remorse i sort of feel like she won't and i give people the benefit of the doubt almost all the time i agree
00:53:19
Speaker
But I just, it seemed very insincere and it seemed like your very first words should go to yeah children. to apologizing, hopes for their future and their- Yeah.
00:53:34
Speaker
And at this time, Sherry has a memory of watching Frozen and forcing her siblings to participate in her and her ah performing Frozen for her parents.
00:53:47
Speaker
And she says, I just have to let it go. Let go the curse of control. Let go the coldness. Let go of lies. Let it all go. Until one day she would come down from the mountain a different person, one who understood the meaning of love.
00:54:01
Speaker
And then ah she snapped back. I was no longer a little girl and Ruby was no longer a Disney princess. The judge announced the sentences. And they were four sentences of four to 15 years to be served consecutively as delivered by the courts.
00:54:18
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's the weird thing of like the parole board. Right. determines the actual length of the sentence. And it's like they can, after i think the four years, they can start having parole hearings and it's ultimately them who decides when they can get out.
00:54:35
Speaker
I don't know. And something tells me they'll get out. but I think so too. I think at least Ruby will. A whole lot more than before you. Yeah. Yeah. She does say she reached out and after the sentencing.
00:54:46
Speaker
She reached out and grabbed Kevin's hand, having sought guidance from Jesus, forgiving him, Had emerged as the right choice. yeah He had not been absolved, but I'd chosen to release the burden of resentment I held against him.
00:55:00
Speaker
It's a beautiful way of saying it. It really is. So next, Jodi comes in. This time, Sherry decides, I'm going make an eye contact the whole time. And Jodi was just a mess. who's seen the video?
00:55:13
Speaker
Gosh, she looked terrible. Yeah. Limp, greasy hair. Framed her ashen skin. Yeah, she looked bad. So the judge laid out the plea agreement again. and It says Jody's lawyer tried to argue that there were, quote, two sides to every story, prompting the judge clearly incensed by the audacity of the statement to demand what, quote, other side there could have possibly be to the torture of children.
00:55:38
Speaker
They already had a plea deal by this point, right? Yeah, I think it's like part of the process is like for the sentencing you have to say what it is again. and the attorneys, I assume, have a speak.
00:55:50
Speaker
Yeah. Gross. ah So Jodi had been making these phone calls from jail to her followers, painting herself as a prophet wrongly persecuted.
00:56:03
Speaker
yeah Showing a lot of remorse. So weird. God speaks directly to me. The sheer arrogance and delusion of her statements left me in no doubt.
00:56:17
Speaker
Jodi was entirely unrepentant. And it sure does seem so. Yep. But she puts on the performance, delivering her own statement, which kind surprises everybody.
00:56:29
Speaker
She says that she loved those children. don't even think, did Ruby even say that? No. But Jodi then said she wished the children beautiful, happy lives, showing zero remorse or accountability.
00:56:45
Speaker
But the judge is angry. Yeah. Angrier at Jodi than Ruby, it seems. He deemed her, quote, so far detached from reality, common sense, and decency that consecutive sentences were the only appropriate response.
00:57:00
Speaker
It was validating hearing the disdain in his voice, the confirmation that Jodi was no innocent bystander, but an active perpetrator of unspeakable horrors. And she got the same sentence as Ruby. And i I don't know which one I think is worse.
00:57:14
Speaker
Yeah. I, I tend to think Ruby's worse. They were her children. Yeah. And I think, and I think Jodi's the cult leader. Yeah. and I mean, but you know what? They're both terrible and they got what they deserved.
00:57:27
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. So, They're led away and Kevin, Chad, and Sherry basically like bolted for the side exit trying to avoid ah anybody, but especially press.
00:57:41
Speaker
They keep saying no comment except for Chad. Sherry, no comment. Kevin, no comment. Chad, I don't think you understand any of this at all, do you? And with that, the reporter finally shut up.
00:57:54
Speaker
I love that. Yep. Ted's always got some extra spunk in him. He does. So they got in the car. They went ah to get some dinner. They ordered burritos and guacamole and talked about nothing in particular. It's interesting. what do you do? Exactly.
00:58:11
Speaker
So in chapter 48, we hear about Ruby's journal. Yep. All I had wanted for so long was for the world to just sit up and listen, to understand that Ruby and Jodi needed to be stopped.
00:58:24
Speaker
But once they did, it seemed like people couldn't get enough. Again, thanks to Ruby, our lives were no longer our own. Media outlets in the U.S. and all over the world immediately picked up the story of the holier-than-thou YouTube mommy blogger who was arrested on charges of child abuse alongside her best friend.
00:58:43
Speaker
Those who had been following our family for years felt vindicated, as the rest of the known universe finally woke up to what had been happening behind Ruby's white picket fence.
00:58:55
Speaker
That's kind of it. I don't know. What does this say about humanity? What does it say about us, really? Yeah. yeah That we somehow take pleasure then and and seeing the downfall.
00:59:08
Speaker
Yeah. And somehow by seeing that, it gives you comfort in your own life to see, i guess, in another other's life. Yeah. Who you thought was maybe perfect.
00:59:19
Speaker
Yeah. Really isn't. Yeah. Far from it. um But with, so with the plea and every, you know, everything's done, the evidence was released and we get to see Ruby's handwritten journals. Yeah.
00:59:38
Speaker
And it documented what happened. She'd taken the two youngest siblings to Jodi's and leaving the middle sisters behind. And it just laid out the terrible things that happened.
00:59:50
Speaker
Sherry writes, without reading them i knew those sickening journals chronicled right in my mother's cursive exactly how ruby and jody had moreph and to the very demons they claim to be purging from my siblings souls Twisted Fiends Who Tortured Little Children, Like Something Out of a Grotesque Hieronymus Bosch Painting. There it is. Your research. Oh, there it is.
01:00:11
Speaker
They are grotesque. I still find it strange that she journaled. Yeah. Yeah. they are they are grotesque they yeah i still find it so strange she journal yeah And Sherry says she never really wanted to read it. No, she never wanted to read it. um She didn't want other people reading it.
01:00:35
Speaker
She just wanted it to to be gone. um But there was an opportunity for the three, Kevin, Chad, and Sherry, to be on an episode of 2020. um Sherry kind of thought this was like the way that they could kind of get their side out and it could be done.
01:00:52
Speaker
um She said she hated every second of it, but it felt like they had to do it. To get their own narrative out there. Yeah. um She hated it. She says, I hated 2020's approach. It didn't feel emotionally sensitive or appropriate in tone.
01:01:07
Speaker
I didn't think that they had any more motive rather than to make a popular documentary and capitalize on a shocking news story. And that's why I think they did the Hulu doc. Do you think the Hulu doc, you think they were they were more in control of that?
01:01:22
Speaker
Yeah. And yeah I mean, it's hard to do a documentary on ah on an event like this and and not make it sensationalized.
01:01:37
Speaker
Yeah. Because that's what- No, think they had a lot. Yeah, I think they had a lot more control the Hulu documentary. And that I have not watched all the way, so I will i will finish watching that.
01:01:50
Speaker
And I think you've pointed out, though, um in the Hulu documentary, they are very cautious. they They do not say anything negative about the church. Yeah. Yeah. um And I wonder if that was a bit of a tradeoff for there was a lot of unreleased footage from eight passenger days.
01:02:07
Speaker
it was like, if we can control this part, we'll give you these. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And i am now I would like to go back and watch the 2020 episode and see me too if there was more, if they were more insensitive about, ah if they said more negative things about the church or brought the church more into it Yeah. Blamed the church more. Yeah.
01:02:27
Speaker
I wondered how the public's consumption of others' pain and suffering... Crossed the line from empathy to voyeurism. Yep. And she says part of the way she controlled this and kind of made a stand was refusing to speak about her siblings anywhere.
01:02:44
Speaker
She wasn't going to tell their stories. This is theirs. She wasn't going to talk about, like, even in the book, she doesn't give their name. She doesn't do all that. She says, I don't want to be anything like her. I thought I won't exploit them the way she did.
01:02:57
Speaker
Talking about Ruby. And then she does do a beautiful job of that. Mm-hmm. She writes a very compelling book without, that's about her. It's about her experiences. Yeah. Chapter 49, ends here.
01:03:10
Speaker
In August 2024, I received a letter from Ruby in prison. Her lawyer passed it on to me, explaining that Ruby had written it months before, in February, but it had gotten lost in the shuffle of legal paperwork.
01:03:23
Speaker
Reading my mother's words brought a strange mix of emotions. It was five pages long, but its length didn't equate to substance. And this is really strange, I think.
01:03:35
Speaker
Two entire pages, for instance, were devoted to describing my nursery. Yeah. Ruby waxed poetic about the excitement of preparing for her firstborn, the care she took in choosing colors and decoration.
01:03:48
Speaker
just, I don't understand Ruby sometimes. I know. Yeah. No, it's still all about her. It's like, I was so excited. This is what i did. It was about her. And it was about how things look to the outside.
01:04:02
Speaker
And this is in a private letter to our daughter. um And the only thing in this letter she apologized for was not spending more time with Sherry before Sherry went to college.
01:04:14
Speaker
And Sherry pointed out that just seemed like such a small thing to fixate on in the grand scheme of their history. Yeah. Yeah. um She says, as I read, I found myself growing increasingly detached.
01:04:27
Speaker
yeah So it's like this letter is kind of the confirmation she needed that like there's no relationship ever. There's nothing coming from this woman to me. And that rub Ruby exists in her own delusional reality. Yeah.
01:04:42
Speaker
Yeah. Where our relationship could not be mended. Yeah. So from this, Sherry goes on to discuss the term narcissism. I agree with her. I think it's overused.
01:04:53
Speaker
I do too. But in talking about narcissistic personality disorder, she's like, that... kind of looks like what's happening. Yeah, it is a real thing.
01:05:04
Speaker
But, you know, now wait we've gotten to the point where we, yeah, what did she Got a self-centered boss? Narcissist. A friend who always makes it all about them? Narcissist.
01:05:16
Speaker
A relative who dominates every family gathering? Narcissist. and So, yeah, I do believe we've now every negative figure, public or within our in our own lives, we we kind of ah overuse that term for it.
01:05:28
Speaker
Yeah. But she writes for what she thinks for Ruby, narcissism was for survival, wasn't? And she oh ah she equates it with her fawning response.
01:05:40
Speaker
um She says, this isn't just so this isn't just ego or self-centeredness. It's a desperate, all-consuming need to maintain an image of perfection, to world to the world. And to oneself, any crack in this facade isn't just uncomfortable. It's existential threatening.
01:05:57
Speaker
Understanding this doesn't excuse the behavior, but it does shed light on the profound suffering at its core. Extreme narcissistic behavior isn't about asserting superiority. It's about compensating for the fact that you feel fundamentally flawed and completely empty inside.
01:06:14
Speaker
yeah And social media leans right into that. i mean, the, the, positive affirmation she was getting from YouTube just fed right into that.
01:06:27
Speaker
And then she was good. Her life did look really yeah's good at it. She had a beautiful life. yeah and you know She was able to portray it very well.
01:06:39
Speaker
Absolutely. So she's just, I mean, struggling with the exammaal mentally exhausting mental gymnastics going on inside the mind of something someone with NPD.
01:06:51
Speaker
It's relentless, contradictory monologue. yeah I'm special. I'm the best. But why doesn't everyone see it? They must be jealous or stupid. I need to show them how amazing I am.
01:07:03
Speaker
But what if they see through me? No, that's impossible. I'm perfect. Aren't I? Of course I am. I have to be. Yeah. But what learning about this has helped Sherry with is like processing Ruby's role in her life.
01:07:16
Speaker
It was accepting that her mother was never going to be able to love her unconditionally or see her for who she is. But not giving her a pass on it. Right. Yeah.
01:07:27
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. She would never have been good enough. Right. For how perfect Sherry felt like or Sherry was. she was really ah good kid. It was never going to be enough.
01:07:41
Speaker
So she she uses that knowledge for her own self-healing. Yeah. Without giving her mom. So she she asks, like, where does this leave us? How do we balance empathy for the wounded person behind the narcissistic mass while protecting ourselves and others from the damage they cause?
01:07:57
Speaker
And for her, it's breaking patterns. It's breaking cycles. Recognizing where the urge to do the thing that you've been conditioned to do is coming in and understanding when to shut that down and do different.
01:08:14
Speaker
It's like a consistent or constant battle and in your life. Yeah. Yeah. I think I like she does say understanding that narcissism is a complex disorder, not just a label for selfish people is crucial. Yeah.
01:08:29
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, Ruby had been writing letters to Kevin. um She says letters that will forever go unanswered.
01:08:40
Speaker
That surprised me. He did hit a, he hit a point that he stopped responding and it was right before he filed for divorce too. It was, he stopped responding and he told the prison to stop allowing her to call him and send letters.
01:08:54
Speaker
Would you get to that point? Yeah. don't know if I would. For him, if I'm putting myself solely in his shoes, going through therapy, realizing the level of manipulation that happened,
01:09:10
Speaker
And I feel like he maybe – I would feel like I'd have – not have to, but i choosing myself and my kids instead of like continuing any sort of communication with her, he's doing kind of the opposite of what he had done the whole time. Yeah, I can see – I see what you're saying about, yeah, it's it's showing that your your children, that you're choosing them.
01:09:35
Speaker
I don't know if as a child if I could ever cut off – my parents completely no matter what they did doesn't mean I would have a positive relationship but that that thought of that thought of cutting something yeah someone out of your life forever the door would always be open for you yeah even if it's a crack yeah that's a little hard for me to to imagine yeah So it it also appears that Ruby's trying to get a degree, which Sherry is supportive of. Yeah. She's like, great.
01:10:08
Speaker
um When she gets out, she'll have to support herself. Yeah. And she hopes that she has a quiet life, but that quiet life will be far away from Sherry. Yeah. She doesn't wish wish ill will on her, but yeah.
01:10:20
Speaker
Wants her to stay away from her family forever. And I wonder what, I wonder what, what Ruby thinks. I wonder how she envisions her life. I know. I know she hopes that she can confront herself to kind of have a reckoning with herself.
01:10:36
Speaker
Ruby. Sherry hopes that for Ruby. um But she closes the chapter saying, as for Jodi, I'll leave her diagnosis to the experts and the fate of her soul to God.
01:10:47
Speaker
Now I could see cutting off Jodi for the rest of my life. Yeah. I'm, Jody has no one. Jody has no one. Yeah. So we are at the very end. We are at the epilogue, which is entitled Seven Passengers.
01:11:02
Speaker
And it is one year later. One Sunday morning, I kissed Muppet goodbye as he lounged on my bed, his newly acquired collar glinting in the sunlight streaming through the windows.
01:11:13
Speaker
He looked up at me with those big innocent eyes and I scratched behind his ears, my heart swelling with love for the zany little creature who had become my anchor in the chaos. So she gets into her car and she is going over to Kevin's house for Sunday family dinner, which is like astounding to her.
01:11:30
Speaker
but She's just going to like a normal family dinner. um She had found a new bishop, as we said, switching to a different church. And as she was driving over, she gets a text phone call.
01:11:42
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Derek was being brought before a formal disciplinary council. His calling stripped away, but he never lost his temple recommend as Sherry had.
01:11:53
Speaker
And it's kind of a thing that she's she's come to terms with. I don't even want to say peace, but come to terms with, like, it's between him and God. Yeah. Forgiveness is ah is about, I guess, getting rid of your hatred. not So she pulls onto the street and the old Chevy van is sitting in the driveway rusting with the eight passengers license plate and sticker long removed.
01:12:18
Speaker
he's at Kevin wanted to sell it and get a truck for when the kids came back. We really didn't need, have a needs for such a large vehicle anymore. So she's home. She's finally seeing the house again as her home. Yeah. Yeah.
01:12:32
Speaker
They created their new life post-Ruby. Yeah. And the person she is now wasn't because of Ruby, but in spite of Ruby. And for the first time in her life, she says she's genuinely happy.
01:12:44
Speaker
Yeah. um She says she's always going to deal with the mental health consequences of her life, but she is focused on the future. She, I mean, this is again, she says she wants kids.
01:12:56
Speaker
The children I will one day nurture. She says she has peace. They will, they will create a new story. And her purpose is this is peace. Happiness is breaking, breaking cycles. Yeah.
01:13:10
Speaker
And she the last word of the book is finally. I believe she will. I believe she'll be a wonderful mother. Yes. Hopefully it's our peace now. how She wrote her book. She shared her story.
01:13:22
Speaker
She can hopefully just go on with it. Yeah. All right, guys. We did it. Gosh, it's so hard not to talk for so long. I know. Oh, my goodness. I'm hungry, guys. I'm going to go eat dinner.
01:13:37
Speaker
All right. So for any of our viewers who have been watching, we don't have many of you guys have been watching this series, but we do have a few and want to let you know that we are going to make um a separate channel.
01:13:51
Speaker
That's going to be our book book club channel. We had a really great time doing this and we don't want to stop, um but we realized that the content from Fixate Today, Great Badders should be separate from the content from our book club because they target different audiences.
01:14:06
Speaker
Yeah. So we are going to hopefully launch that soon. We are going to keep the Sherry's book on this, on this channel, but going forward, we'll have our own book club channel.
01:14:21
Speaker
Yeah. So we'll announce a new book. I think this was sort of our practice run through. i think we've gotten better at it as we've gone. if not, but Well, we're still a little long winded, but we'll work on that.
01:14:32
Speaker
So, and we hope, yeah, that it's something where if you want to read along with us, you do. um We're hoping at some point it's an inner interactive um ah club where we're live and we can kind of talk back and forth. But we'll explain all that in our announcement.
01:14:46
Speaker
All right. Yay. This was very fun. I hope everybody enjoyed it. Take care. Bye.
01:15:01
Speaker
you