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Book Club: The House of my Mother by Shari Franke, Part Four, Part One
71 Plays4 months ago
Welcome to Part 4 of Shari's book! As Shari leaves for college, Jodi moves in and takes over the Franke home.
Check out our YouTube channel, Fixate Today: Grey Matters
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Transcript
Introduction and Book Club Enjoyment
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the channel. We are continuing to talk about Sherry Frankie's book, The House of My Mother. i hope you guys are enjoying these ah book clubs.
00:00:11
Speaker
We're having a lot of fun doing them. It is fun. Yeah, I really like it.
Mankind Beset by Devils: Bosch's Chaotic Scenes
00:00:15
Speaker
So we are on part four already. righty. All right. Part four is titled Mankind Beset by Devils.
00:00:24
Speaker
Okay. Okay. And I did look it up. Let us know. Let us know. All right. It's another Hieronymus Bosch painting. It is another one of like the panel paintings.
00:00:36
Speaker
There are two paintings in circles. it's really They're really cool, like how these works are constructed. So it's like a circle on top of each other. The upper circle is are people encountering devils.
00:00:48
Speaker
And it's like chaotic and desperate and fear.
Jodi's Entry and Family Dynamics
00:00:52
Speaker
And then the lower circle is Man struggle with malevolent forces. So it's like, it's really like sparse. There aren't a lot of, trees like the trees are kind of bare. It's like barren.
00:01:05
Speaker
And basically I think the thing I read about it was said like the demonic presence of like the spiritual turmoil and like there's that an omnipresent threat is like tearing away the life of everything.
00:01:19
Speaker
So that's relevant, right? Because Jodi's really...
Demonic Attack or Manipulation? Jodi's Situation Raises Questions
00:01:24
Speaker
entering their world now really um inserting yourself into the family yes and it really like part four i think is one of the harder parts because we just like especially knowing what happens at the end you're just like screaming stop doing this this is what's gonna happen yeah yeah listen to sherry yeah yeah and she's getting cut off more and more well well Yeah, I won't get ahead of myself.
00:01:51
Speaker
All right, so here we go. Now we're really seeing Jodi. Really, i was gonna say this is really a tough chapter for Sherry, but you know what, every one of them is bad. Yeah, yeah, but we really start seeing the escalation of everything.
00:02:04
Speaker
Yep. so Chapter 25, Ninth Passenger. About two weeks before my freshman semester started, my phone rang while I was hunting for last minute college supplies.
00:02:16
Speaker
Ruby's name flashed on the screen. Her voice crackled with a frantic energy. We find out that Ruby is frantic because Jodi is unwell and she's being attacked by demonic forces and she has to move in with them.
Influence on Family Business and Channel
00:02:30
Speaker
There's so much to say about this. Yeah. Let me just, yeah. So her quote, Jodi's not well, she blurted out, skipping the pleasantries. She's being bombarded by the adversary. Her soul is under siege from Satan himself.
00:02:43
Speaker
Sherry, he's trying to silence her truth. So she's moving in with us. We're going to help her get better. I nearly dropped my phone.
00:02:55
Speaker
Okay, so, so many levels. First of all, i'm not sure how they think if she really is being bombarded by Satan himself, they're going to be able to work through this with her?
00:03:07
Speaker
I'm not sure how that's going to happen. i Yep. I don't know. ah Apparently she, and here's my guess is she is so powerful that Satan is trying to attack her, but that also means she has the protection of God who speaks through her.
00:03:22
Speaker
So they just have to like facilitate a battle between good and evil within this homely woman from Utah. or Or just feed her and yeah let her let her have a bed to sleep in while she's going through this on I don't know.
00:03:37
Speaker
It's crazy. Yeah. And then I don't,
Sherry's Room and Family's Battle Against Evil
00:03:40
Speaker
I always go back to motive. Is Jodi's motive. I mean, is Jodi really unwell at this point and really needs somebody to take care of her or she, for some reason, trying to get into their home?
00:03:55
Speaker
I think it's about, I think it's completely fake. I think it's a manipulation of Ruby. um And I think the motive is financial to get Ruby's YouTube channel.
00:04:06
Speaker
Okay. To get, yeah. Getting it closer, getting closer. Because ultimately, Ruby never stops. Well, she has stopped now. But. She never stops eight passengers. She changes it to Moms of Truth. And I think that was the goal the entire time.
00:04:22
Speaker
And the i think Ruby became like a really useful asset to Jodi in a lot of ways, we'll find out. But the financial means and then that would give her the the money to – they're talking about opening like a camp in Arizona – yeah And there's the funds for it. And then I think it I don't even know if it was on purpose to get Ruby completely like just sucked into everything. And I i don't I don't even know if the goal was to get her to be a partner.
00:04:56
Speaker
And then she was like, oh, yeah, I'm keeping this lady around. Yeah. And
Mixed Emotions: Sherry's College Departure
00:05:00
Speaker
I suppose by her being there in the household. um she gets more of an understanding of what's going on with the business. Like, cause there is a business partner, a manager um who's involved. And I think he's given some pushback. Well, obviously. yeah Yeah. On, on the way that Ruby is.
00:05:18
Speaker
All right. So she's moving in. There's, i it's so hard just not to read this. My mother's unhinged guru was locked in a battle with evil and her solution was to crash at her place.
00:05:31
Speaker
And Ruby had decided that protection would be us. And it's just like their dad's a professor. your point of like, what is what who's going to like do this?
00:05:46
Speaker
It's like there's six kids in school. the Dad's a professor. Like what qualifies them to exercise demons? yeah Well, apparently he gets better at it.
00:05:59
Speaker
But we'll see. Yeah. ah So yeah. So it's just logistical at this point that Sherry's room is the biggest in the house and that she's leaving for school. So they're just going to go ahead and take that room.
00:06:12
Speaker
Still a couple of weeks before Sherry leaves for school, but that's okay. She can just camp out on the couch for right now. Yeah, it's fine. Chad slept in a beanbag. She can sleep on a couch. With this big old fancy house they have, you'd think there'd be plenty of room.
00:06:25
Speaker
I need a guest bedroom. Yeah, exactly. All right. So I wrote down, I forgot I wrote this. I took notes a while ago and I'm rereading my notes and I wrote down a teenager's room is where the battle for good versus evil will happen.
Spiritual Interventions and Failures
00:06:41
Speaker
I think that's symbolic. But well, it is because I like the, you know, Sherry talks about always being afraid of the dark and and Ruby making her sleep in the dark. And it's like Jodi was the nightmare. Jodi was the thing all along that she had to be afraid of.
00:06:55
Speaker
That's funny. And you know, it's funny. I just thinking because you have a teenager at home. And I have two. Oh, yeah. I don't even think about that yet. Yeah. I wasn't there too long ago. And yet your teenager's room is like, so like it's their space.
00:07:11
Speaker
I just, I'm thinking about my oldest child's room and I'm like, there is a battle of good and evil and evil is how disgusting it is. There's no room for fighting demons in that space.
00:07:24
Speaker
And I feel like, I don't know, they would be kind of annoyed if you just like came in and like, it's their space. Like if you came in and like clean the room and flopped out the bed and just hung out. I'm not even allowed to go in and pick up the dishes.
00:07:38
Speaker
It's funny. Let alone move my guru. Well, it seems like nobody that Jodi wasn't picking up her dishes either because it seemed pretty, pretty messy in there. Yeah.
00:07:50
Speaker
Yeah. All right. So it goes on. Jodi was being plagued by nightmares, visions, and crippling bouts of anxiety. Clear symptoms of dark forces seeking to destroy the righteous.
00:08:03
Speaker
Jodi, handpicked by demons for destruction, urgently needed protection. Now, when I read that, maybe not the visions, but to me, the rest feels like anxiety.
00:08:16
Speaker
I was going to say the only thing I believe she has is anxiety. And then,
Secrecy and Isolation within the Family
00:08:20
Speaker
you know, then throws in a couple of visions, which are probably dreams, which we all have.
00:08:27
Speaker
Yeah. And we've talked about in terms of the LDS church, she knows the ways to talk to a devout Mormon mom to get her convinced that it's real. Yeah.
00:08:39
Speaker
So, yeah, in a way, it's wordplay, too. Oh, yeah. It all is, again. Yeah. She's not lying. No. She's not lying about those things and how they're interpreted. Mm-hmm.
00:08:50
Speaker
I think it's super interesting that Sherry includes that they don't talk to Paige and the family anymore. Paige is Paige Hanna, who we've talked about. was that She was the one that got the Frankie family in with Connections, and then she was interviewed on the docuseries. I think she is going to deal with a ton of guilt for the rest of her life, even though it's not her fault that the children were abused. um yeah but So I didn't realize that.
00:09:19
Speaker
Paige and the Hannahs were out so early in like the Frankie saga. it was Well, Jodi had been staying with the Hannahs just prior to this.
00:09:31
Speaker
Yeah. So she went through them first. And she did the same, it was the same MO and they didn't buy it. And then she moved on and then, yeah, then the Hannahs are out of their life.
00:09:43
Speaker
Yeah. i like i I appreciate that Sherry pointed that out because it was crazy to her. It was just another thing that These are family friends and it's weird to her. Yeah. And it's no nonchalant, by the way.
00:09:55
Speaker
We can't talk to Paige or that family anymore. Done. And it's because Jodi had
Mysterious Trips and Family Dynamics Shift
00:10:00
Speaker
a tantrum. Or they figured out Jodi's. They figured out what Jodi's was trying to do.
00:10:06
Speaker
And they wanted to make sure that that information did not get shared with right the Frankie family. And it also could – because this – my thought with this too, because she like – didn't they say she like made a pass at the husband – and i don't I don't entirely know what to make of that, except for that could have become the focus instead of like, we're fighting demons. Could have been like, she made a pass at my husband.
00:10:35
Speaker
Like, what? And that you know like that's almost the overtakes the problem of right why she's there. Right, right. Look at this problem. Versus this problem. Yeah, we just kind of talked about this beforehand. Like you have to pick your anxiety sometimes when they're both big.
00:10:52
Speaker
And maybe that became the more of the focus for them unintentionally than like looking into the grift of it all. I would have really liked to see that pass she made at him.
00:11:04
Speaker
I know. it's just Because, well, not that it's about looks, but Paige Hanna's quite beautiful. Yeah. She's a beautiful woman. And I can't imagine she wears a single khaki capri. Mm-hmm.
00:11:18
Speaker
Not that we have enough looks, but yeah. So the end of this chapter is super, super ominous. Jodi comes in and the doorbell rings, says, and there she was, Jodi standing in the foyer in her khaki shorts. See, she makes fun of it too.
00:11:36
Speaker
Her eyes blazing with a feverish intensity, her hair wild like an
Visions of Glory: LDS Beliefs and Family Narratives
00:11:40
Speaker
Old Testament hermit who'd been wandering in the desert wastes. Hello, Sherry. She crowed, her voice strangely raspy and raw.
00:11:48
Speaker
Thank you for offering up your bedroom like a good Samaritan. I appreciate it. I think one of the most telling lines and that I read this chapter is um Sherry, you know, basically saying, was I the only sane person left in this circus? Yep.
00:12:06
Speaker
What a feeling. I know. Helpless. She's legally an adult going to college, but she's a kid. She's a kid. and And she can't get through. Like, she knows something is completely abnormal.
00:12:20
Speaker
And she can't. There's nobody she seems to be able to relay that to get on her side to understand, to see it that way. No one. And then it's even the thing of like, I feel like it's when you're in a situation like that, no matter the age, if it's like an adult child and an adult parent or like your spouse, if if somebody that close to you is telling you something like you're wrong, you're crazy, it's easier for her to be like, my mom wouldn't put me in danger or –
00:12:51
Speaker
my dad wouldn't put me us in danger. Like some, ah to to almost like gaslight yourself into believing it's okay to get through. Right. But then at the same, yeah, that feeling and in her stomach, I bet no matter what she says.
00:13:04
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Even despite that, she knows she, she knows. So yeah. All right. um So this, i mean, as we finish this up, we get, this wasn't just a temporary inconvenience.
00:13:18
Speaker
This was the beginning of an
Ruby's Companionship and Isolation
00:13:20
Speaker
occupation. yeah But I like at the same time she like doesn't know what to say. and she like forces a smile and is like, uh, get well soon.
00:13:29
Speaker
think that's so sweet. its look that is I don't know what else to say.
00:13:41
Speaker
but's What's the card you send for this situation? Right, right. Do you send flowers? Does the dollar store have a... Hope your demons leave, balloon. All right. So we're on to chapter 26 called In Spirit and in Truth.
00:13:56
Speaker
All right. I got a lot of notes and a lot of highlighting going on in this. Okay. It opens with a journal entry. The house's spirit feels weird with Jodi here. Something's going on between her and my parents that we don't know about.
00:14:10
Speaker
And the whole thing is super secretive. I'm trying to spend as much time out of the house as I can. And before we get too into this, like, this is something, this is, this plagued me the entire book.
00:14:24
Speaker
The feeling of being out of the chaos of a house, but then feeling obligated, like, feeling like you've abandoned family or abandoned the people you want to protect.
00:14:39
Speaker
Yeah. It was like when I went to college, there was this sense of like, I'm going to breathe a little bit. I'm out of this like highly emotional situation. But my mom and my sister are still in this highly emotional situation. So it's like this feeling of burden that you've left, but like relief that you're able to leave.
00:14:59
Speaker
It just like,
Business Control Shift and Kevin's Isolation
00:15:00
Speaker
I don't think she ever says it completely. Like sometimes she'll be like, I, I'm not there, you know, things like that. But there's just such this weight of like, oh my gosh, I'm relieved I'm not there. And oh gosh, I need to be there.
00:15:17
Speaker
Well, and also even in a normal family situation without this type of stress, it's a difficult time. Your child is going from being your child. to Yeah.
00:15:28
Speaker
And a child wants the independence and feels that happiness of having it. But there's always also this part of them that realizes I'm not my mom's kid anymore. might Even in the best of situations.
00:15:46
Speaker
And I think at that point they need to be reminded that that you're still there for them. Yeah. There were times I do remember this too. Like I would be like, Oh, the three mom, dad, and my sister are doing this thing and I'm here in college.
00:16:01
Speaker
Yeah. And yeah. Okay. I guess I'll just not ah study whatever. yeah Well, FaceTime's helped a lot with that. We didn't have that my day. Yeah.
00:16:13
Speaker
Yeah, sometimes we'll be eating dinner and and we have the boys on FaceTime right there with us. but But it is, I mean, there's there are a lot of emotions anyways.
00:16:24
Speaker
And she deserves so much more support at this time. And, that you know, her support is not even in the picture at all. yeah that's not that's Honestly, there's there's not even any attention to the fact that she's leaving other than it's going to clear a bedroom.
Jodi's Growing Influence and Sherry's Displacement
00:16:40
Speaker
Yeah. They did do a ah video of moving her into her dorm where I don't think she, I can't remember she talks about it in the chapter, but there was a video about moving in and how emotional Ruby was and all those.
00:16:54
Speaker
Yeah. It's just becoming so fake at this point. Yeah. ah What I noted, and what what struck me is that with like this whole notion of this otherworldly satanic thing,
00:17:08
Speaker
visions going on and such. It's almost too much to even consider. Yeah. Like it almost so overshadows the absurdity of the logistics of the situation of this woman moving in that like, you almost can't even go there.
00:17:24
Speaker
It becomes too much. Yeah. So at the, also i was listening to a podcast and they were talking about um like protests and things going on right now. And the host was like,
00:17:35
Speaker
we're at this weird place that like people want to be protesting, but like you got to work. You have to rest. You have to like, You have obligations. You have kids. You have all these things.
00:17:46
Speaker
And I just imagine like Kevin dropping a kid off at like a practice and being like, OK, home to do an exorcism. I'll pick you up in an hour. you're so still have to.
00:17:58
Speaker
I mean, and it gets to the point with Jodi that they don't. But like there's this crazy dichotomy of like normal and then normal. absolutely absolute insanity in your house but you still have to he still has to work he's still like kids still have homework yeah and at this point i can't remember it is ruby still shooting some
Support in Chaos: Sherry and Derek
00:18:20
Speaker
videos some eight passenger videos they haven't quite moved on to doing the Yes, but they're getting darker. They're getting more focused on her than the kids. i also have to say, because I totally just conflated this, I watched the terrible Lifetime movie.
00:18:39
Speaker
And okay we we maybe want to do like watch it together. Do something because it's really it's it's something. um Heather Locklear is a very good Jodi, though.
00:18:50
Speaker
But there's a picture. I can't picture it. No, she's way too. She's OK. We're not talking looks.
00:18:58
Speaker
There's a moment in the terrible made for TV movie that like Ruby announces how the channel's changing. And so I just like had that in my head. I like, I don't think that happened.
00:19:10
Speaker
I think it was gradual and it was unsaid, unspoken rather, until it cut off and was officially Yeah. Yeah, I would like to see it. I didn't i have not been able to see that.
00:19:22
Speaker
I don't have Hulu. Even my my little, my nine-year-old was sitting there like, okay, what's happening? What is this? like Like she walked in rest at the, like ah in the middle of it. And I was like, don't worry about it.
00:19:36
Speaker
it' It's too hard. This is completely fiction.
00:19:42
Speaker
So this is where, you know, Jodi's moved in. And this is where Sherry starts getting closer and confiding in Derek. which you will recall is is the older gentleman, but she does some work for him.
00:19:57
Speaker
Yeah. He's an older married gentleman who
Mysticism and Family Beliefs Deepen
00:20:00
Speaker
she can confide and gets comfort from because he listens to her and understands. Encourages her at this point to like push through and you'll be in college soon.
00:20:15
Speaker
So he's also kind of pushing his way into her Yeah. ah So while that's going on, all of a sudden, and it's it's kind of, it sounds like it was a very quick kind of switch flipped that Ruby and Kevin are both like all in into like this mysticism stuff.
00:20:33
Speaker
And it's weird. Like Kevin is an engineer and all of a sudden it's like, yeah, but I'm an exorcist. Maybe he was proud of it. mean, I just wonder how much of it was manipulation.
00:20:45
Speaker
And it just seems wild because... it It just seems too much that Jodi concocted completely, but I think she did. Like, she built Kevin up so much in the connections groups to the point that he believed he could get the demons out of her, and then he failed.
00:21:02
Speaker
And then all of a sudden, like, everybody starts turning on Kevin. So I... It's just such, like... It's like a supervillain in a Marvel movie. Yeah, but for a minute, he's riding high. Like,
00:21:15
Speaker
yeah Yeah. A minute he's feeling pretty good about himself. He he feels like he is successful in this. Yep. I think he's proud. Yeah. Oh yeah. Night after night, she'd fall into these mysterious trances, not quite seizures, not quite sleep, but something eerily in between.
00:21:31
Speaker
Ruby and Kevin suddenly embracing a level of mysticism I'd never seen before could conduct what they called
Manipulative Tactics and Family Control
00:21:40
Speaker
spiritual interventions for her. Yeah.
00:21:43
Speaker
hushed and intense sessions meant to heal her. And we actually saw one of these in the Hulu documentary. They showed did that real close-up of her face just like talking in a different voice.
00:21:56
Speaker
That was just her lowering her voice. Yeah. And this is this is also when Ruby decides it's too hard for Jodi to get through the night alone. She should really move into Sherry's room with her.
00:22:07
Speaker
And here's what I'm also thinking. So when one becomes a spiritual healer, such as Kevin or Kevin and Ruby, but how do you how do you do that?
00:22:21
Speaker
Like, what do you do? Like, do you sit there and be like, okay, relax?
00:22:27
Speaker
I'm just wondering what method you use to get the demons out. I have no idea. I don't know. I would be, but yeah, I would be super curious to be like, Kevin, what did you do to learn how to do this or like what what did you do for the steps of sending demons out yeah I'm so curious if it was just like praying if I don't know maybe slipping or some Xanax or like even looking up what
00:22:58
Speaker
Catholic like historical Catholic exorcisms have looked like and being like I could do that how hard can that be okay so as you said yeah so it's becoming so frequent ah so these things only seem to happen at night doesn't seem like they happen during the day It's just best if Ruby just goes and shacks up over there so they doesn't have to keep getting up in the
Speculation on Jodi and Ruby's Relationship
00:23:20
Speaker
night. And then she writes about things like, I like that she writes like this. She writes about a vision of like the lion named Charles and stuff like that. But Sherry is really self-aware and is like, you've read about it on Reddit.
00:23:35
Speaker
I'm not going to tell you. yeah Yeah, you um we almost have to give some context to anyone who has not, because that sounds crazy just on its face, but and it is. So, yeah. So in these visions, she'll say, in these visions, um herself riding on a massive lion named Charles through the gates of heaven.
00:23:55
Speaker
Charles has since gained something of a cult following on Reddit. so Yeah, but she's very, very aware of that stuff. Like, I feel like it's almost like I'm not getting into it. You can find it.
00:24:06
Speaker
without saying it. But right after this, we learn ah about a hefty leather binder that Jodi referred to as the pen papers.
00:24:18
Speaker
And this is where she would write down, Sherry says delusions, Jodi says visions, and says exactly what we think, that she's take she's writing this down because one day it'll be scripture and the church.
00:24:33
Speaker
It'll be doctrine, the things that she's reading, and she will be added to the Book of Mormon. And both Ruby and Kevin are completely bought into the... Yeah. The importance of the pen papers.
00:24:45
Speaker
So much but we don't realize this um until later in the story, but they for Christmas, they bought her a leather bound boulder. Yeah. we With pen papers anagrammed into it.
00:24:58
Speaker
Can we can we tangent
Contrasting Perceived and Biblical Truths
00:25:00
Speaker
for a minute? Yeah. What do you think happened to the pen papers? Because we we I don't know if it gets talked about in here, but they never found them. Did they never? No, they saw them when they did the first search through the house. And when they went back the second time, they were gone. Okay. Yeah, I couldn't remember.
00:25:18
Speaker
So we've seen we've seen Ruby's journal, but I tend to lean toward Kevin destroyed them. i think. And then, because remember when he was trying to get Sherry arrested for taking the stuff from the house, I think...
00:25:32
Speaker
I lean towards he destroyed them. And then and an interview later when he was like out of it and like realized, starting to realize the gravity of everything and how misled he was also, he does talk about them and he keeps saying like he wishes that authorities had them or could find them.
00:25:51
Speaker
So do you think, ah so for those of you who don't know, um kind of as this is all, yeah As everything's wrap yeah coming together after the children are found, Sherry goes into the house to pick up some important things.
00:26:06
Speaker
And so she picks up computers and electronics. Passports, paperwork, things like that. She's just being logical and and grabbing the things that they need.
00:26:17
Speaker
It's now become a police scene. And Kevin gets incredibly angry. There's actually video of him in which he's fuming about how he believes Sherry should be arrested for stealing. Yeah.
00:26:34
Speaker
Yeah. And the police kind of laugh at him and they're like, I mean, she lives here. Yeah.
Hope for Resolution amidst Family Chaos
00:26:40
Speaker
But I've always thought that it was the computers. There was information on the computers that he was worried about.
00:26:47
Speaker
I think. But do you think it was? Or do you think it was it's all? Do you think the pen papers were a big part of that? Do you think that that's what he was? have. I wonder, i I don't know, I think it might be twofold that he still thought Sherry was the enemy and was, I don't know, I don't think he ever cared about her, like, sending him to prison or anything like that. I think he was still in because chad kind of was at the time too we find out he was still kind of um sucked into it all um i think i don't know i mean my thought is because i think that happened before the second search of the home that sherry went in and took the stuff and so i wonder what it
00:27:31
Speaker
If that's the case, I could be completely wrong, but if that's the case that that was before the second search, he realized she hadn't grabbed them and destroyed them. Because in his ah interview with the police, he does bring them up. He says something along the lines of, have you found...
00:27:47
Speaker
The pen papers. Yeah. And I wonder if that was a bit of guilt or I don't know. I don't know. Of even a way of of discussing them at all, that they existed, even if he did destroy them type of thing. Like it's on record that these things, I don't know.
00:28:03
Speaker
know. Or if it's before they had them and he was sussing out. I don't think that because I think at that time he was at that interview, I think he was even like turning against Ruby at that time when he realized the gravity of what happened to the kids. I think that interview he was like, I'll tell you, like, I think that's he was like, I'll tell you whatever you need to know.
00:28:27
Speaker
but I don't know. I might go back and look at it. It's been a while since we, I know it's, it's been a while since we looked at the timeline, so I can't remember for sure, but I do think he, I think Kevin destroyed the pen papers.
00:28:39
Speaker
And Sherry does a great job of, again, keeping the book about her story. So she doesn't get into those. She mentions it in a broad sense, but she doesn't get into the details because that's not really her story there.
00:28:54
Speaker
Yeah. Right, right. It's not necessarily her job to speculate on what's in there. So, I agree. She does say, back to talking about Kevin, I felt helpless watching all of this unfold.
00:29:07
Speaker
Dad, who seemed like a shell of his former self, wasn't doing anything to stop it either. I wanted to intervene, to shake him out of this compliance, but I didn't know how. I yearned for my dad to find his backbone, to step up and be the protector he was supposed to be, to shield us somehow and convince Ruby that Jodi needed help.
00:29:24
Speaker
the kind of care that we simply weren't acquit to give. In the end, he never even tried. And i so she definitely recognizes that Kevin is her one way to possibly get through and help the situation, which I think she was correct.
00:29:42
Speaker
Yeah. She does this really beautiful balance, I think, of holding him accountable and showing sympathy for him. She's not letting him off the hook.
00:29:54
Speaker
and I imagine to this day she's not letting him off the hook. But she, I think, has forgiven and, like, has a good relationship with him now. Yeah. But I don't know if she – does she still call him Kevin? Does she call him dad now? You know, I don't know if that if he severed that for her.
00:30:12
Speaker
Something tells me he did sever that. I think so, too. Maybe she sees him as a father to the younger kids, but I don't know that – yeah She has that relationship in that way with him. She has a relationship with him.
00:30:26
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And I think they have ah a decent relationship now, um but I don't think he's a father figure as much. In your opinion. So this is what she's grappling with in retrospect is.
00:30:40
Speaker
Should she have tried more? Should she have tried to get through to it more? Do you think she could have? What do you think it's not her job. Yeah. It's not. I think she is, like I said, she's an adult, but she's a kid still.
00:30:54
Speaker
And I i think there's a there's going to be a line, especially if she's seeing her relationship with her mom go downhill and... I don't know. I don't I think it was risky to it would have been risky for her to talk to Kevin about it because we know Kevin has gone to Jodi before. or I'm sorry. Kevin has gone to Ruby saying like we talked about this and it's the thing of she's the kid. He's the adult.
00:31:21
Speaker
And I think that dynamic is true in adult kids and parents, too. It's like he's the dad. Yeah. Um, it's not her job to open up his eyes. And I, I'm, I think she probably tried to talk to him. And if he wasn't receptive, it's like, it's like, what else am I going to do?
00:31:43
Speaker
And then having nobody else have her back with it. It would be different. I feel like would be different if it was like her and Chad. Yeah. where But Chad was chad was in this. He was brainwashed in this, too. So um I think that would be a very different story. I think if multiple of the kids were able to say something.
00:32:02
Speaker
Well, and I think it's easier after the fact to say I should have done more. But at that time, she did not realize how bad things could get. Because yeah in retrospect, yeah I don't think it could have gotten worse than it already was.
00:32:16
Speaker
Right. And like kind of what we already talked about, she's also getting ready for college. Like she has this huge life thing happening that is a difficult transition in the best of cases. Yeah.
00:32:27
Speaker
ah Yeah, I don't think it was her job to open his eyes. And, you know, at this point, and at this point, it's crazy, but it's still, like, bitterness and my family's gotten weird. It's not quite to the point where, right, now this is a danger situation and.
00:32:44
Speaker
Right. Right. and it And it's very much like it follows the flow of an abusive relationship that, like, The escalation's slow and sometimes you don't realize it's happening.
00:32:55
Speaker
And I feel like for the little kids that we don't hear too much about, that's what it was. like it and And for Kevin also. And sherry was enough Sherry was like, any of this escalation's worse.
00:33:08
Speaker
Like, we got to stop. But when the escalation is kind of slow moving like that and you get accustomed to each step, you don't realize. Yeah. Yeah. No, agree. All right. We got to move on because I think we're like four pages into this now. So I do love that Jodi and Ruby would only leave the room to go to Dairy Queen.
00:33:27
Speaker
funny. But I think this is really shows like how weird things are getting because Ruby wasn't that person to just like eat garbage. It said like the the diet, what does it say? The diet was a cardiologist nightmare.
00:33:42
Speaker
And that wasn't her brand. That wasn't her brand of perfect mom. No, but it was it was more like an eighth grader finding a new best friend and that and being bonded by these silly silly little things. yeah They also said that they there was gallons of ranch dressing in the house. That was Jodi's contribution, which I think I think there were too. like The big Costco.
00:34:08
Speaker
What is she putting this ranch on? Oh my gosh. ah It feels like everything. It feels like when you have a toddler and to get them to eat vegetables, you have to give them ranch. yeah i do I've said it before, but I will say it again. Sherry is very funny.
00:34:23
Speaker
She is. It's just such a good good line. Yeah. Yeah. So then we talk about Jodi's oldest and dearest friend, Pam.
00:34:36
Speaker
And I just want to know everything about this woman, Pam. Pam. Pam really gets under your skin. Because she's gotten away with so much. I know she has. She's gotten away with so much.
00:34:47
Speaker
Or she towed the line. Well, let's talk about it first. Okay. So Pam would bring them big cases of pop and they'd go and sit up in Sherry's room and gab.
00:35:00
Speaker
But they were taking trips to Mexico together. i think once Pam came into the equation of coming into the house, then it was, let's go on this trip to Mexico. And they would return with grocery bags full of pills.
00:35:13
Speaker
Okay. and And they say they were going there for antibiotics to stock up on for the apocalypse. Which I do believe, partly.
00:35:24
Speaker
i don't think they all were, but that was what got Ruby in, was this, like, if we're going back to Visions of Glory. i do think they were bringing antibiotics back, but I don't think that's all they were bringing back.
00:35:38
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I do think so to some extent. I do think so, but what else were they bringing back? And... And I'm not sure why they had to take multiple trips. It's not, I was thinking about it from Utah down to Mexico.
00:35:52
Speaker
It's not that, it's a pretty significant road trip down there. Yeah. Yeah. They also took the trip to Lake Havasu in Arizona. um there's yeah There's pictures of that. They just look like, boy, a trio of friends having a great time on the, on the lake.
00:36:09
Speaker
I think I posted one of the pictures on our social media on the Fixate Today Gone Tomorrow social media of them. It's like Ruby has like her chin on Jodi's shoulder and they're like taking a selfie. It's just bizarre.
00:36:23
Speaker
On the boat. Yeah. And it's it's just like going from being perfect Mormon mom to like, I take weekend trips away from my family. wonder if they're drinking any caffeine while they were out there.
00:36:35
Speaker
Oh, no. Crazy women. They had formed their own exclusive apocalypse collective. And the rest of us were decidedly not on that list.
00:36:45
Speaker
And I think the only reason that they're not on the list, because we've talked about like the prepper element of the LDS church, even like mainstream good normal people often have some element of like a food storage or things like that.
00:37:03
Speaker
But they do it to protect their family, not themselves. yeah It's a family decision. It's a family. It's like, I don't want my family in the apocalypse to go hungry.
00:37:16
Speaker
You're right. This does not seem as family focused at all. Mm-mm. But then we do get into the Visions of Glory section, which I forgot Sherry had talked about in the book, and I'm so happy that she did.
00:37:30
Speaker
says, they, like many doomsday preppers in the LDS church, were obsessed with a book called Visions of Glory published in 2012. The book, not endorsed by the mainstream LDS church, was a wild ride of near-death experiences, apocalyptic visions, and doomsday prophecies.
00:37:48
Speaker
It became the basis for many LDS prepper fantasies, feeding into their fears and justifying their extreme preparations. The book's contents ranged from New Age-styled spiritual encounters to graphic descriptions of impending disasters, foreign invasions, viral plagues, massive earthquakes devastating the entire United States, including our own Wasatch Front.
00:38:12
Speaker
It was all very trippy and apparently very convincing to Ruby, Jodi, and Pam. And let's add others because this book has impacted ah several other groups that have had have made the news and have had tragedies.
00:38:28
Speaker
And again, associated with this book and the teachings. Yep, this is the book that Laurie Vallow was reading when they were arrested. a lot of Chad Daybell's philosophies came from this book.
00:38:39
Speaker
Tim Ballard was an ardent believer, probably still is, believer of this book. And a lot, ah there' there's so many others that just, this book pops up for them.
00:38:53
Speaker
And you've done some research on the book. Now, I have asked if you have read the book. just I'm just curious. Not interested in reading it. you You can't even bring yourself to read it.
00:39:06
Speaker
Mormon Stories podcast does a great job of summarizing what it is. But it's just, it sounds like it's terribly written. I'm sure. And I have so little time to read. I'd like to read good things.
00:39:17
Speaker
Fair. um But it's it Yeah, it's just it's this whole thing. It's it's Chad Daybell saying I have these visions and this is going to happen and we have to do this because of it. And I had these near death experiences and that makes that makes it so I can talk to God more. And and it's anything Chad Daybell said came from this book.
00:39:37
Speaker
I'm just blown away because something tells me Chad Daybell was a terrible writer. And this, this vision of glory does not seem like it was a well written book. I mean, if you're going to try to break into the, to the publishing industry, it seems like this might be the way to go.
00:39:53
Speaker
You don't have to. Yeah. yeah The LDS church has its own publishing branch, but Chad Daybell had his own publishing. And that's, I mean, when you can't get your book published, you open your own publishing.
00:40:06
Speaker
Wow. The bar seems pretty low for for the writing. Yeah. So, yeah, that's that's been my, like, that's been my Roman Empire is this book. Like, how it influences all of these um cases we keep seeing in the media.
00:40:21
Speaker
So, Thierry does say that, as strange as it sounds, she said she's never seen Ruby happier than when Jodi was living with them. Yeah. And, yeah you know, I think Ruby just needed to feel part of something.
00:40:36
Speaker
Maybe other than our family. I mean, I think her family filled that void for a long time. And her channel, of course. But maybe with the channel failing, the kids getting older, she had, there was a significant void and she was lonely.
00:40:50
Speaker
Which is such a common thing for moms. What, you know, I started feeling that way too. And I got a part-time job and I started doing this with you.
00:41:02
Speaker
um But she didn't have friends. Like she didn't have female relationships outside of her family. And that I've said before that I don't know why that just surprises me.
00:41:13
Speaker
And it surprises me as somebody who does not have a lot of female friends outside. So it's not like it's hard for me to understand. There's just something about Ruby that I wouldn't have. She seems so extroverted that I wouldn't have thought for her.
00:41:28
Speaker
Yeah. Well, she did like they said in the Hulu doc, she alienated a lot of people. um She thought she was better than everybody. She would film and like, their kids would be in the background and she's wouldn't care. And it was like, yeah anytime she was around, it was, there was a purpose for her being around. Well, it's Kevin. They were like, he was a normal dude.
00:41:46
Speaker
We liked it. We hung out with him. Um, if Ruby was around, it was like, everybody had to be perfect or else she would make everybody uncomfortable. Yeah. Um, i could see that. Yeah. So Jody and Pam became her ride or dies, her squad, her sisters.
00:42:02
Speaker
They were the three musketeers of the apocalypse. Um, I love that.
00:42:08
Speaker
And let's remember Ruby, she does have sisters. huh so They three are also vloggers. But yeah, by now, by this point, she is, he she is completely isolated herself.
00:42:19
Speaker
um Yeah. Because they won't do connections. And as this goes on, I mean, now we see the change more. It's Kevin more on the outside looking in. Right. Slowly the wedge has slowly yeah come between he and the, and the ladies. s Yep, and it's getting bigger and bigger the more iced out he is. no longer allowed to go upstairs.
00:42:41
Speaker
He can't go to the kitchen without permission. can leave the house, but he can't couldn't return without Ruby's permission. Which I think is wild. like That that to me is like, I don't know, I would hope that if I were feeling brainwashed by something like this, that would be like, wait a minute, that's the red flag for me.
00:43:01
Speaker
mean, the ultimate red flag. Yeah, that would be my, I think that would be the point that I'm like, I can leave, but I have to ask to come back. What's like, that's very clear. You want me to be gone.
00:43:13
Speaker
Like, that's very clear. What's going on that me walking into would be a problem. So, um but then here we get maybe the root of it all was that at this point, Ruby even tried to transfer control of a passengers, YouTube ran to Jodi.
00:43:30
Speaker
And we think yeah that was her motivation. Yeah. I think that was the whole point of all of this for Jodi. So in these meetings and seances and such, are they also, I assume she's also slipping in talk to Ruby about how how this should be needs to be done for the sake.
00:43:48
Speaker
Yeah. For the the good of the planet to save the world. Ruby, you already have all of these viewers. Yeah, you lost some, but the real the true believers are the ones who didn't unsubscribe and you have such a ah reach.
00:44:03
Speaker
that we can use that. And if you turn it over to me, I will, God will tell me how to use your channel. And so they did have a longtime manager. And when she brought this to him, he raised concerns.
00:44:16
Speaker
And Ruby dismissed his warnings, claiming it wasn't about money, but about doing God's work. And then they parted ways. So the one-third manager was gone.
00:44:28
Speaker
Yep. Also, Sherry's stuck, she says, relegated to the couch. She's still there. So she's also like, yeah, she's still there. She hadn't left for college yet. But she's she's completely pushed out also.
00:44:42
Speaker
It was a fundamental shift in our family dynamic, um which is probably the understatement of the year because it was, it was so much, so, so much more than she could have ever imagined. Yeah. So, um, they're told not to tell anybody that Jodi's in the house.
00:45:01
Speaker
Forget the reason why. While concealing the juiciest plot twist of all, she says. So the reason they had they couldn't tell anybody, I'm sure that the kids were told it was like, if she's being attacked, no one needs to know she's here because more things will attack her.
00:45:15
Speaker
But ah really, it was because they were doing connection Zoom meetings from the Frankie house, but they couldn't look like they were together. So if anyone knew that Jodi was living there, they would know that they were lying And like in it together Which to me apparently shows that Jodi can snap out of these Evil state of mind and her Oh yeah she can She can snap out of it when she needs to Oh yeah area Oh And Sherry's still making a little bit She's still making her videos But Ruby's not thrilled about that And tries to shut it down We can't risk Jodi's voice Slipping through in the background
00:45:56
Speaker
But ruby Ruby was still watching. it Like, she still had to approve content before it was posted. So she's watching everything. She would hear the voice. I think it was a means of control. I bet Jodi, I think Jodi was behind that, too, of of being like, Sherry can't do this.
00:46:11
Speaker
And she told Jodi or she told Ruby, like, what if my voice comes through Everyone will know I'm here. And I think it was Jodi was trying to stop Sherry's income stream to control her and punish her.
00:46:23
Speaker
fully realize that sherry was the one who who saw through all this yep yep and could bring other people's attention to it and yeah her youtube channel was one other way of speaking out yeah yeah as cracked as her marbles might have been she still possessed strategic forethought interesting so we have derek again popping in yeah and at this point like She doesn't see that there's grooming going on, but her home isn't safe and his office feels safe.
00:46:57
Speaker
Yeah, so there's no red flags at this point for her. This home situation isn't healthy for you, is it? Derek said one afternoon when I'd gone to do some work for him at his office, mainly because I wanted to get out of the house.
00:47:13
Speaker
Yeah. Derek could tell I was stressed. He was listening to her when nobody else was. Yep. And validating her. Validating her, being patient with her.
00:47:24
Speaker
Not judging her, it says. She could say things about her family life without judgment. And meanwhile, it is grooming. he Yeah, because he says, Derek studied me intently. Must be lonely going through all that on your own.
00:47:38
Speaker
And finally, Derek smiled with his hand brushing mine as he reached for his coffee mug. Yep. He's married. I believe with children. Yeah, we never really hear much more about his family.
00:47:50
Speaker
No, because it's her experience, right? That's true. yeah i want to know, but... Yeah. This is not his real name, too. We should say that. It's a pseudonym. So she's... Okay, sorry. I got confused about timeline. I thought she was in college now. But no, she has to go to her bedroom to grab a couple of things because she's not allowed in her bedroom anymore.
00:48:09
Speaker
That's what is. Yeah. I pushed open the door to my bedroom and looked around, confused. The room was bathed in a soft glow of candles. The air was heavy with the scent of lavender and vanilla wafting from the massage oils on the dresser.
00:48:26
Speaker
Just alone. I'm so sensitive to scents. They hit my sinuses. like that I feel ill.
00:48:37
Speaker
Bathed in scent just is horrifying to me. Yeah, she says the only thing missing was the rose petals on the bed. I'd be mad about that too. They smell also.
00:48:51
Speaker
Well, the smell, especially your own space where you have your natural smell and it's been now taken over. Yeah. ah um So then she says that night she couldn't sleep. And she's like, maybe it's because my back hurt for being on the couch.
00:49:06
Speaker
like She's so funny. Or maybe it was the sense that I'd seen something I wasn't supposed to. And then she's tossing and turning. And around 5 a.m. she heard footsteps. Yeah.
00:49:17
Speaker
She cracked one eye open to see Ruby creeping out of her room, her hair messy, cheeks flush flushed and robe hastily tied. Heading back to the bedroom, she shared with my dad. A strange smile on her face. She looked mischievous.
00:49:33
Speaker
We think that this begins the point where there's questions about the nature of their relationship. Yeah. And I will say Sherry has very, very plainly, and I think Kevin did too now, said like, no, they were having a romantic relationship.
00:49:49
Speaker
And I will say at this point in the book, I really didn't think they were. I mean, I really thought, okay, maybe that's over analyzing the situation. Maybe maybe that's going too far.
00:50:00
Speaker
you know, they could have. So I was ah actually at this point, pretty open minded that that was not what was happening. Oh, that's, that's funny. Because for me, I was unsure until reading the book.
00:50:13
Speaker
And this moment for me was like, oh, yeah, they're having a relationship. That's so funny. Putting that I think part of the reason was, ah didn't want it to be that. And not not because I write that I have ah an issue with that being part of the relationship.
00:50:28
Speaker
It just seemed like that would grab headlines. And that would um take the attention away from everything else going on that in and of itself, that would have been to me. Right. A minor point that would, that would be focused on instead of focusing on what was really problem.
00:50:42
Speaker
Yeah. And I think that would have made thing, made all of this go much faster. if like a headline, like a salacious headline came out about the devout eight passengers, mom.
00:50:54
Speaker
So I am glad that that, even for Sherry, that's not the focus. No. I do think, I might have heard this recently, that some more of Ruby's journals were released, and it did very much suggest more of a relationship.
00:51:09
Speaker
Yeah, I did. I just, actually, think it was in the end of this book, but, oop. No, I think there was other, there was something else I just heard recently that there was like a journal entry that was like Ruby complaining about doing all the work in the relationship.
00:51:27
Speaker
Yeah. And honestly, until I heard that, I still didn't fully believe. that's That was what, ah when I heard but just exactly what you you heard that or read um that it was in the journal.
00:51:38
Speaker
Up until then, I thought, this is just conjecture. I was on the fence, too. i was more convinced with Sherry telling me. Yeah. But then that, I was like, all right.
00:51:50
Speaker
Yeah. She talks about her pity. Now, on another level now, she even has pity for her father. Yeah. In a once proud and rational man who seemed completely oblivious to what was happening right before his eyes.
00:52:07
Speaker
Yeah. And it's also like if they are having a relationship publicly, there's a condemnation of queerness from. From Ruby and Jodi, especially Jodi.
00:52:21
Speaker
And it's it's just like. It's just right in Kevin's face and he's being so gaslit about them having a relationship. And there's... He's not seeing this, right? I mean, he's not... I mean, he's seeing it, but he doesn't... He's not putting that together. Right. That's my guess.
00:52:38
Speaker
And there's a lot of ah conjecture that Jodi was closeted. i think her niece, who I'm completely blanking on her name, Jessie, on their name, sorry.
00:52:52
Speaker
There's a lot of conjecture, especially from Jessie, that that's kind of what was happening. that was That's a lot of this, is a repression of...
00:53:05
Speaker
who you are and yeah. um So, you know, after all of this and, you know, Kevin seemingly having no idea what's going on, ah Sherry does like run into someone who is an old neighbor of Jodi's, I think.
00:53:19
Speaker
And the person says, OMG, that woman is so closeted.
00:53:26
Speaker
And ah another, the most homophobic people are the ones who are hiding something about themselves. Yeah. So then she goes into a discussion about ah the queer community and her religion.
00:53:38
Speaker
She's like, they're not accepting. She's hoping that, well, historically hasn't been accepting, that she has seen a change. She says, personally, I like to remember that Jesus taught us to love everyone.
00:53:49
Speaker
Mm-hmm. And then i so I really like this part. She tells the Bible story about the Samaritan woman at the well who was an outcast. um And Jesus took compassion, had, had, um,
00:54:06
Speaker
said ah he spoke with her. He spoke to her not with condemnation, but with love. And ah he says you should worship in spirit and in truth. And those words have always stuck since Jodi moved in. I'd been hearing them louder than ever playing in a loop in my mind. Spirit and truth and spirit and truth and spirit and truth.
00:54:25
Speaker
Truth was a word Jodi and Ruby wielded like a weapon. But it's not the biblical truth. It's the truth they. By their definition. Yeah. It's. yeah um I think I'm really struck here by how devoted Sherry is and how this entire yeahp time in her life did not, did her devotion never broke.
00:54:49
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. um She says, true truth isn't just quoting scripture while behaving exactly the way you want to when you think no one is looking. That's the opposite of truth. and but So i I love her.
00:55:02
Speaker
She's kind of reclaiming that word that's been weaponized against her so much. She recognizes that. She says, I asked myself, how would I have felt if Ruby and Jodi had actually embraced honesty, practiced the authenticity they preached, and told me and the rest of the family about what was really happening between them?
00:55:22
Speaker
And the answer is yes. Yes, I would have been hurt. But I would have supported them, and it would have been preferable to living like this in a house of lies that I couldn't bear to step foot in anymore. Yeah.
00:55:34
Speaker
And i I think the pain would have come from like an affair. Yeah. It didn't matter with who. Yeah. Of course. I think we should wrap up there because we accidentally took an hour to talk about two chapters.
00:55:49
Speaker
So we will be back with more of part four. We'll go a little bit faster for you guys.
00:55:56
Speaker
All right, guys. Thank you. Tune back in and we will finish up part four. See you next time. Bye.