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Book Club: The House of my Mother by Shari Franke, Part Five, Part One
51 Plays3 months ago
Welcome to part five of Shari Franke's book, The House of My Mother. Things have gotten bad, bad, very bad for the Franke family
Check out our YouTube channel, Fixate Today: Grey Matters
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Transcript
Intro & Part Five: 'Fall of the Damned'
00:00:00
Speaker
right, we are moving on to part five of Sherry's book. This is the last part, and I think it's the shortest part. Maybe it won't take us four hours.
00:00:09
Speaker
All right, so the ah title of part five is Fall of the Damned, and you know I looked it up, and it is another painting by Hieronymus Bosch. So this one fantastic.
00:00:21
Speaker
The painting is The Fall of the Damned into Hell by Hieronymus Bosch. It is a part of one of those like panels that he does. um And it's the third part of a four part panel.
00:00:33
Speaker
The first is The Ascent of the Blessed. The second panel is Terrestrial Paratres. terrestrial paradise. You can keep that. That silly.
00:00:46
Speaker
um This one, the fall of the damned. And then the last one is hell. So this particular panel is people literally falling into hell and it's like chaos and dark and macabre and very shadowy. And it's like basically the consequence of sin, like the punishment these people will face as they're falling.
Family Dynamics & Online Reactions
00:01:06
Speaker
So let's read that. Chapter 38, The Echo Chamber. start off with a journal entry. I had a dream last night where I sat my younger sister on my knee and explained why I couldn't talk with my family for now.
00:01:19
Speaker
I told her I loved her and asked her to come find me one day. I woke up and had the feeling that she had the same dream as me. I feel she's being guided. Today also happens to be dad's birthday.
00:01:32
Speaker
I sent him a text message and didn't expect a reply, but it still hurts that he didn't. I miss having someone to call mom and dad. It was endearing to my heart and now that's all gone.
00:01:42
Speaker
And when I was writing my notes on this, I kind of had forgotten the part where Ruby had started referring her to herself as Ruby instead of mom. And, and I thought actually i wrote off in the notes, ironic that she calls her Ruby now, but now that makes even more sense.
00:02:00
Speaker
Yeah. And I yeah can't imagine yeah not having someone to call mom and dad. Yeah, I know. So then we get right into it. the Her Instagram post just blew up.
00:02:12
Speaker
I actually remember this. I remember hearing bits about it and being like, I have no idea who these people are and what this is all about. And I didn't like get super into it at them, but some of like the content creators I follow would start talking about it. But it was more about like the family vlogging side of it. It wasn't even about the connection stuff yet.
00:02:32
Speaker
um But it was about like, you know, family vlogging is ultimately a net negative for a lot of families. And we're seeing that play out. And that was kind of the vibe that I remember. Well, I wonder how the people who watch the family vlog, I wonder how many of them even stuck around and followed the connections.
00:02:50
Speaker
Yeah, I wonder that too. i'm going to say from our little channel where um we do the Michael Miller focus and most of it, and we've thrown this ah book club on. And yeah, we have very few people who watch the book club. So I'm going to say that they probably ah didn't keep a lot of people changed to a different subject matter format.
00:03:12
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Even the the shorts I've been making, which aren't related to the Micah Miller case at all. It's like very specific comment, like people who are watching the Micah stuff we're doing, like small handful, very specific people will comment on those. And it's like,
00:03:29
Speaker
All the other comments that we've gotten for the shorts have been people who have not, are not subscribed. So yes, it's a when you switch topics and people don't expect it. You have different target art audiences. like So all these rumors start, not rumors, I guess, opinions start kind of popping off.
00:03:48
Speaker
And mean, she just wrote, you know, basically that someone put, i I knew there was always something off with this family. Yeah. And it just made me think like how quick people are to change to turn on others.
00:04:02
Speaker
Yeah. And it's like, really? You always thought that? And how you take a little bit of joy in watching others fall, especially like.
00:04:13
Speaker
have portrayed themselves, and think you know, and and as being the the perfect family. But there were still, like, believers. One comment is, poor Sherry. I wonder what happened to make her turn her back on Ruby.
00:04:24
Speaker
and so at least there's an acknowledgement that, like, something happened. Right. But it's still like she turned her back on Ruby. Yeah. Yeah. So Sherry read everything.
00:04:35
Speaker
can't believe that. I think that was bad for her mental health. I don't... Agreed. Agreed. I kind was surprised about it.
00:04:46
Speaker
Why I can understand it is is the kind of monitoring where kind of the public stance is on everything. If like, i would feel validated if I were in her position of, I'm not crazy, people see weird things. Yeah.
00:05:03
Speaker
But they're not seeing everything. So, like, people are getting that things are off. But are also, like, it seems like people are still, like, you should make up and things like that because not all the truth is out. But I would i think I would kind of, yeah, feel a bit validated that it's not just me who thinks these are weird.
00:05:22
Speaker
But then, she you know, she says, if only they knew the full story of what's happening to my family. So there's also a part of, I don't know, it's it's difficult because she's in the public against her consent.
00:05:34
Speaker
In this situation, I would think what I want would want to believe I would do is have somebody else close to me read them and kind of curate what I should read.
00:05:45
Speaker
but but in thinking about that, nobody really knows yeah her whole story. There's nobody she can turn to to do this in her life at that right this point. Right. Which is really sad. Right. Because she still feels like a burden to the Haymans to some level. So, yeah,
Sanctuary with the Haymans
00:06:00
Speaker
there's... But then she she does ask the Haymans if she can call them mom and dad.
00:06:05
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. This is... The Haymans house is her sanctuary and they have taken better emotional care of her. And so she wants to call them mom and dad. And they say, I would be honored for you to call me mom.
00:06:19
Speaker
Yeah. Mrs. Haymans says... And it's just, yeah, I love that part. She's got a little, like, especially in this part, every little, like, bump in the road. Not little bump in the road. Huge bumps in the road. But she's got a security that she hasn't had before.
00:06:36
Speaker
But it's a big leap to be able to call somebody else mom and dad. Yeah. And think it goes back to that, like, what she said before. That it's, ah she wasn't ready in life not to have, it was it was a strange feeling in life not to have a mom and, not not to have somebody to call mom and dad.
00:06:51
Speaker
I think it's just a natural natural need we have. Yeah. to yeah have absolutely To know that somebody cares for us in that. A parental way. Yeah. Even some of my my kids' friends will call me mom when they see me out.
00:07:06
Speaker
And things can be hard for them at home. And so I i allow it. Yeah. Yeah.
Ruby and Jodi's 'Moms of Truth'
00:07:15
Speaker
Okay, so Ruby and Jodi are really pushing this but obnoxious... Yeah.
00:07:22
Speaker
Moms of Truth Crusade. Yep. Seemingly oblivious to the fact that the whole world was turning against them. Yeah. And this is the most ironic thing ever because Jodi's kids have nothing to do with her.
00:07:37
Speaker
I know. People don't talk about that enough. Jodi's kids hate her. she's... yeah and if There's got to be a lot of – like, it takes gall on her part to even participate in even And, like, Ruby making that transition to a title with the word mom, and it makes more sense because that's how she's built her brand. Right, right.
00:08:01
Speaker
But Jodi's never – built her brand on her kids because she couldn't because they'd come forward. Yeah. I guess it's the transition. I guess it's a piece of the transition, um that is calculated, I suppose, to, to make that a passenger's audience ultimately become the.
00:08:23
Speaker
And kind of include them. I'm just thinking of this now. Moms of Truth doesn't have to be the two of them. It could be the group they're trying to build. And that's a real, some would say clever, some would say manipulative way of starting your, it appears to me to eventually The ultimate goal was this is going to be an MLM. yeah Yeah. And then, so they have this Facebook group.
00:08:46
Speaker
but I think this is funny. And they're like screening people before they can join the group with the question, are you willing to be grateful to receive parenting advice from experienced women?
00:08:59
Speaker
And still with, Sherry says, still with most of the screening, most of the women were just secret trolls, oddly fascinated by Ruby's narcissism. and cruelty on eight passengers yep i would have done the same thing the court the screening question oh my gosh and the fact that they even threw in the word grateful i know that just gives them the opportunity to yell at people for not taking their advice like well you agreed to be grateful yeah and then there's a part where
00:09:31
Speaker
Their core messages is that that Ruby preached was, it's a child's responsibility for three things. A child needs to learn to manage their thoughts, their feelings, and their behaviors.
00:09:47
Speaker
Which I don't disagree with. Right. But it's her next sentence. And they need to learn to manage them in truth. Which means they're going to be honest, they're going to be responsible, and they're going to be humble.
00:10:01
Speaker
With all that. And that is a lot of responsibility. My favorite joke to make is ah bragging about how humble I am.
00:10:12
Speaker
And I feel like Ruby probably seriously brags about how humble she is. I'm the most humble. I'm the humblest.
00:10:23
Speaker
Not to brag, but I'm the humblest. And just these the terminology and their double meanings. Yeah. Yep. But there being like a bit of truth in that statement, which, you know, yeah yeah yeah the three, those are how I believe you need to manage your kids, right? Their thoughts, their feelings, their behaviors.
00:10:45
Speaker
and i mean, there's more. Yeah. But the thing is, it's not... As parents, we don't get to, it's not about controlling it. And that's where Ruby is. Like, I want my kids to learn how to manage those things, but not necessarily, they don't even have to be the same thoughts, feelings, and emotions I have. Whatever they have, they have to figure out how to how to navigate through.
00:11:09
Speaker
But then it's, it's the thing of like, but they're my thoughts that you have to manage. It's my feelings that you have to manage. Yeah. Well, whenever she throws in or whenever they throw in the world, the word in truth, it means their truth. Yeah.
00:11:25
Speaker
What I believe. And, and whenever they throw in be humble. It's taking away the kids ah autonomy. And what it's saying is what humility is, is accepting the ah quote guidance of these two women.
00:11:42
Speaker
That's humility. And if you're not going to accept that, then you're not humble. You think you're, you're prideful. You think you're better than the advice that's being given. And it's just, like yeah, there's, they don't have good relationships with their children. Yeah.
00:11:57
Speaker
They kind of a messed up way of seeing how to raise them. but what And I think this is super interesting, too. The internet doesn't buy it. can see right through it. Yeah. And, yeah, they're they're just like, this what these women are insane.
00:12:12
Speaker
But when you read that, it's not too hard to... No, for sure. But it just is kind of stunning to me that there wasn't, I've not seen anything that's been like, you know, she's on to something.
00:12:24
Speaker
And just like the kind of world we live in with the internet these days. Yeah, that's true. That's true that they didn't, they didn't even have some people. Yeah, it was like, no, this is, this is.
00:12:35
Speaker
We've turned. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Concerns about Sherry's Siblings
00:12:37
Speaker
She's done. But it didn't matter to Ruby. she was She had retreated into an echo chamber of her own making, severing ties with everyone who might challenge her worldview.
00:12:47
Speaker
Something I always find. I just always find that interesting. It's because maybe I would love to i'd love to do that sometimes. It's just... Retreat. retreat and turn things off. Yeah.
00:12:57
Speaker
But that's not what it is. It's retreating into like what you echo chambers, the best way to put it. It's retreating into your own worldview and not being willing to learn or grow or hear from other people.
00:13:09
Speaker
It's a shit. And I would love to retreat, but I also want to like continue growing as a person. but Term fix. Yeah. And, no, I think this is true all around. if If a person is unwilling to even have conversations with people who are outside of their own worldview, like, that's a problem.
00:13:31
Speaker
It's big problem. It's a big problem in our society right now, and we all it. So Jodi never explicitly declared herself a prophet or deity, but the implication hung very heavy in every word and action.
00:13:47
Speaker
Mm-hmm. So here's, I think I've asked this before. Does Jodi really believe this? I think there's a level of delusion with anybody who's leading a cult that it probably didn't start out this way. And then you've got followers who are so fervent, like Ruby, who are yes men and who are, are, yeah.
00:14:13
Speaker
And, and backing up the things you're saying, regardless if you at first believed them or not, or just felt like You know, the the the best way I have the best way to do these things and I'll just get people to listen to me. And then it's like, oh, these people like it's the taste of power.
00:14:27
Speaker
And then it's like, I think there is a level of delusion with anybody who is a cult leader. There's a high high control group, I should say, that you almost have to believe it at some point.
00:14:41
Speaker
Learn to believe your own. yep that Yeah. You know, I do think, I think there's definitely mental health stuff with Jodi and with the idea that anybody in their church and their faith can be a prophet.
00:14:57
Speaker
It's pretty easy to convince yourself you are. So yeah, because made me think about um the Chad and Lori Vallow story. I don't know if everyone, if anyone has heard of that, but It's not even i don't know if I'd call it a similar situation.
00:15:13
Speaker
But yeah, I mean, I guess, Chad, the gentleman, basically portrayed himself as as a prophet, if not, yeah, same thing. And um Laurie yeah was easily.
00:15:26
Speaker
succumbed to it and and fell in line. Now, in that case, I feel like Chad, the more I've learned about it, I think ah her son, Colby Ryan, has a ah podcast and a YouTube channel. And the more I watch and learn about it, the more I sit there and think,
00:15:42
Speaker
Let's be real. Chad wanted money and sex. He suddenly had this yeah hot lady with a bunch of money. Yeah, he's going to keep doing it. And his case, I think, I mean,
00:16:00
Speaker
I don't know. I don't know if I think he, I mean. I don't think he was as all into what he was saying as I think Jodi was. i think there was some of it that he believed. I think he probably thought he was a prophet, but then was also like, this woman's hot.
00:16:14
Speaker
this fall This has fallen into place. Yeah. But I mean, the is and as you say, I do agree. I don't think, I don't think he, he believed it as much as Jody, but if you think about it yeah and what we learned later that there was a physical part of their relationship and I mean, basically eight passengers was the money source.
00:16:35
Speaker
It's kind of the same thing. Yeah, for sure. yeah Pam is the Alex Cox. Yeah. Yeah. So Alex, Alex was, uh, Lori's brother who basically did all the dirty work. Uh huh.
00:16:48
Speaker
But, he I mean, he died, but. I think Pam was. I think we got to get to Pam.
00:16:55
Speaker
Pam needs to write a book. Somebody needs to crack Pam. Biography on Pam. Yeah, I don't want her to make any money, though.
00:17:04
Speaker
All right. So. Does that kind of wrap us that chapter? Yeah. yeah Yeah. um Well, it was like people started like reaching out to her to read to find out about the siblings. And Sherry's like, I can't say it. Like, I don't know.
00:17:22
Speaker
Yeah. It's she she can't give answers to anybody. Which people probably didn't believe that. They didn't even think that was a possibility. Right. like Right.
00:17:33
Speaker
Crazy enough. It was. Yeah. right All right. Chapter 39, Abandoned by Justice. The knot in my stomach tightened with each passing day. I was back at school and couldn't stop pacing around my apartment, my thoughts spiraling with worry about my siblings.
00:17:49
Speaker
Everything was pointing to the fact that they were in serious trouble under Ruby's roof. So when I hear that, i mean, and I know in retrospect, um I know she was feeling that.
00:18:01
Speaker
And I know in retrospect, it's obvious. And I know Ruby was abusive, but it surprises me to this, that to this extent, she was so worried about their, about physical harm.
00:18:15
Speaker
and Does that not, does that surprise you? it's It's her concern about their physical harm is, is more. Well, I think she, because they were physically abused. It was just under the guise of punishment.
00:18:31
Speaker
And then she said, you know She had been taking some classes about coercive control, I think. She said in ah there's a point in chapter in part four that when she kind of had a light bulb moment that was like, oh, this was wrong.
00:18:45
Speaker
And it was from a class she was taking. And so it could even be recognizing the escalation. And um then having that interaction with her mother, that last interaction she had, being like, things are getting worse.
00:19:02
Speaker
Yeah. I don't think that she could have even conceived of how bad they were actually. No, no. But I think she had a legitimate concern that somebody... i think it's it's hard because I think she probably had real legitimate concerns that they were their lives were in danger.
00:19:22
Speaker
But then when when everything was exposed, it's still something you can't fathom. Yeah. I, yeah, I have a hard time even, i have a hard time thinking that somebody's mind could even go there.
00:19:35
Speaker
Right. and Right. and it's, it's the thing of like, it's more when something actually like, you're like, oh, these terrible things actually happen. There's evidence of it.
00:19:47
Speaker
And then also there's a word and I can't think of it, but It's easier to be like, my they're in danger and I don't i don't know how or why. or I don't know like how they're in danger. I think they're physically in danger, but I can't put my finger on what's happening.
Sherry's Attempts to Protect Her Siblings
00:20:01
Speaker
I'm just going to put this huge blanket statement out there and physical danger for their lives. And then being like, Oh, this is the details. I was right. And these are the, this is the information. I don't want the information. yeah So then, then she hears from one of the neighbors.
00:20:17
Speaker
I find it funny though. Did you like, if they said that they weren't even close to the neighbors. Mrs. Larson. I find it funny that the neighbors are always reaching out to her. Yeah. I feel like, because they did say like the neighbors liked Kevin.
00:20:32
Speaker
And I don't know, but I always think I'm like, I never had, I guess cell phones weren't as big of a thing when I was that age, but was like, i didn't have like my best friend's mom's number. But she does learn that Ruby pulled the kids out of school. yeah Which that's a big deal. i think that would, that was a big escalation.
00:20:53
Speaker
Can I want to say something about the neighbors contacting her? I think it's, I appreciate so much that the neighbors contacted her. I also andm like, what is this 20-year-old girl?
00:21:03
Speaker
Like, being that age, I would want to know that information, but I'd also be like, I don't know what to do with this. And I just feel like that's so much to put on her. And I hope that they were doing other things. I hope they were contacting police. I hope they were, you know, doing those things besides just telling the, like, 20-year-old, like, this is happening.
00:21:25
Speaker
Good luck with that information. Yeah. And it makes me think of that statement that um Ruby said that day at Pam's where you're you're just pretending you're an adult. Yeah.
00:21:36
Speaker
Playing adults. And that couldn't be further from the truth. In fact, quite the opposite. She was being having responsibility put on her shoulders that no 20-year-old should have. Yeah. um So she hears that.
00:21:50
Speaker
And then. same day it seems she gets another phone call from the gundersons across the street so mrs gunderson tells her that ruby has now gotten rid of the family dog dwight and she can't she's heartbroken and she can't fathom why she would do that and mrs gunderson or mr gunderson now says i think it's so the kids can't go out of the house to walk him around the neighborhood So getting rid of the dog is a means of hiding the kids.
00:22:19
Speaker
So how much do the neighbors really know? Right. I'm kind of a little bit stumped on that. Yeah, me too. And it's also, I mean, we've all been in that situation where you see something weird and you're like, and and then you kind of justify it in your head as to why something's okay. And you're like, I'm not going to get involved. I feel and like I don't want someone to get in trouble for something that they're not really doing.
00:22:44
Speaker
And I feel like there was a lot of that going on. And they talked about that in the Hulu series a lot, that it was... like nothing is illegal that is happening they can get rid of their dog what are we supposed to do and then in hindsight being like oh i should have done everything yeah and it's easy to see that in hindsight but yeah i want to know how much they were talking to each other too oh there had to be some yeah end of the driveway little chit chats going on yeah yeah little neighborhood gossip Yeah.
00:23:13
Speaker
So then, I mean, she says she calls DCSF. Yeah, she calls. ah well, first she says she has a crazy idea. No, I just forgot this part. She says she has a crazy idea. What if I went crawling back to Ruby, pretend to apologize and play nice so I could be around the kids?
00:23:30
Speaker
And she's like, oh, she won't fall for it. And she needed to real help. So, yeah, she called DCFS again. What would you have done then? Hmm.
00:23:42
Speaker
I mean, that's why a lot of women in abusive marriages stays is if I'm not here, the kids are like, who's going to watch, you know, the abusive partner with the kids. I don't know.
00:23:53
Speaker
i don't know. um I probably would have thought the same thing. And i I probably would have gotten like in my head enough to be like, I have to try. I'm going to try. i yeah And I think it would have made it worse. I think Sherry made the right call. I would have made the wrong call and like tried.
00:24:08
Speaker
And this time she, it seems like she's making some step forward. She's going someplace. She's talking to the agents. She's talking to lawyers. um They're even thinking about bringing in a forensic psychologist um When she told about her own childhood abuse.
00:24:26
Speaker
So she felt like she was getting somewhere. She felt a little little bit of hope. Yeah. And her the caseworker's name is Kelly. um She says they don't actually, they you know, they do all these things. They don't have evidence of physical abuse.
00:24:41
Speaker
But she says we're going to do everything possible to get this in front of a judge and get those kids the hell out of there. So DCFS agrees that something is bad. And going back to the Micah Miller case, the coercive control law that that Micah's family is trying to get passed expands the definition of abuse.
00:25:02
Speaker
And I think this is for kids, I hope it's for children too because it's the same you know cycle that physical abuse isn't the only kind of abuse you can get a kid out of a house for or what's illegal anymore. That's the hope is...
00:25:19
Speaker
kind of the psychological ways that, that abusers can manipulate and do terrible things. It's also abuse. And so I think that if that were the case, they could be like, yeah, we can get the kids out. There's abuse going on there. There might not be bruises, but there's these other, like she took him out of school. That's a red flag.
00:25:39
Speaker
But then, ah you know, her, she's let down again. yeah um Sherry, she gets a call that Sherry, I'm sorry. We're closing the case. FDA claims there's not enough hard evidence without real concrete proof.
00:25:54
Speaker
It's all conjecture. So this is where I'm going to say something that's going to get me in trouble again. And that is that while I do not disagree, this was abuse. And I do not disagree that the authority should have gotten involved at this time.
00:26:11
Speaker
I think we have, first of all, a terrible system. Yeah. We have a system where we... Let's be honest, we can't, as a society, take care of every child who's being terribly physically abused and neglected. There's children out there who are locked up and we can't even get to those kids.
00:26:32
Speaker
Furthermore, once we, the authorities, intervene, we don't have a system set up well enough. We don't have a proper foster care system. ah There's enough places to send the children.
00:26:44
Speaker
yeah And in a lot of lot of times, those conditions are not any better. They're just as traumatizing. I'm not sure what I'm saying about that. I'm not trying to say that that they it was okay, but I do understand how how it could happen that this is just a case where there just isn't enough reason for them to get involved because there's a lot of pretty bad cases out there that they're not involved in.
00:27:15
Speaker
Yeah. And well, and everybody has different priorities. So the DCFS worker is saying we need to get these kids out, but the DA recognizes that they don't have a case they can win.
00:27:26
Speaker
So it's like that they're not even their goals, but but the things that they are fighting for are inherently different because the system has made it that way.
Systemic Failures in Child Protection
00:27:36
Speaker
So the DA saying that there's not ah a winnable case is very different than these kids are in danger. And so like they shouldn't, I don't like, that's that's the broken part, right? Like that's, there's no nuance.
00:27:53
Speaker
There's, Because you have to follow what's in black and white on the paper. So the DA a says, what's black and white on the paper? Nothing illegal is happening. But if you look at the what all of the evidence, there's the nuance that then they have to untangle to make it so it's something they can pursue. And it's just a mess. Right. Because then you have to make the decision. Is taking them out of that situation, are they going to end up with a better life? Yeah. Yeah.
00:28:20
Speaker
And I hate to say but they're not. There's not an alternative out there that's better. Now, maybe getting the family counseling, being involved, get them in therapy, that sort of thing. But, I mean, RTCFS, our law enforcement, let's be real.
00:28:36
Speaker
That's not getting done on any meaningful level. No, there's not enough resources. there People aren't paid enough. caseloads are too big. Like there are so many things in this system that are designed to fail.
00:28:50
Speaker
and then people are shocked when things like this happen. But what they don't, what they don't realize I'm very close to, or I'm an advocate for a young man and he's been in the system since he was four. He was physically abused and neglected.
00:29:06
Speaker
um He had several siblings who he was separated from. He basically has no contact. His parents don't, he has no relationship.
00:29:18
Speaker
He's now 11. Just now, are we getting to the point where he's going to court to have parental, his parental ties um severed so that he could be adopted?
00:29:30
Speaker
Cut and dry. Nobody had no family, no friend, nobody else in his life. parents completely absent have had multiple kids taken away from them. And it's taken seven years just to get to a point where this child could be adopted.
00:29:45
Speaker
And by the time a child reaches 11, I'm sorry, this is totally a tangent, but it's something I'm really passionate about. Who wants to adopt an 11 year old child who now has this history that looks terrible on paper.
00:30:00
Speaker
don't know. Yeah. Yeah. It's just a hard thing. i mean, I don't know what kind of intervention there could have been. We need a better system.
00:30:10
Speaker
We need something. we We need to intervene in a better way that's just taking than taking the children away. There's got to be a way of a better way of monitoring them. And there needs to be – like, what when getting kids out of a situation that's dangerous, like, that has – that does have to happen. like Like, if there isn't um especially a threat that – like, sometimes you just have to get the kids away from a threat, right?
00:30:37
Speaker
there Then that can't be it. Right. That – and when different organizations have different interests, they're going to be like, well, it's a win. We got them out of the house. Right.
00:30:49
Speaker
yeah It's a number thing. Yeah, it's just a number thing. It's private agencies that place these kids. They get paid an amount of money to place a kid in a foster home. They're just trying to do that as fast as possible. yep This child has nobody else who's advocating for him.
00:31:06
Speaker
I think just having, you know, there's caseworkers, but the caseworkers are completely overwhelmed. and And often have hands tied because of all the bureaucratic stuff.
00:31:17
Speaker
Totally. And are changed out. Like, I swear. hate that. and Every six months, nobody gets to know a child's full history. And i guess, you know, maybe I'm biased because I'm part of this, but just having one advocate, just having one.
00:31:34
Speaker
I do believe that just having one person who's just there to look out for the kid. One person that I do feel like, first of all, I know his history. I've stayed with him.
00:31:45
Speaker
Do I do much? No, it's a couple hours a month. But, you know, he trusts me and I can see, you know, now that he's in a foster home, I can see. i just wanted someone. i wanted that power to be able to make sure.
00:31:58
Speaker
I'm stopping in. ah he He knows he can call me. I hope he knows he could tell me if something's wrong. I can see that how the house is run. And so I don't know if there's something along those lines where we could have more type advocates or, you know, not, not necessarily taking children away.
00:32:15
Speaker
I, I, I don't know. we that there There has to be some middle ground that we can, we can try to yeah can make things a little bit better because the state, I don't think there's a any state child DCFS or foster programs that are that are adequate in any way that they're not close to no no all right sorry agreed that was nope that's i mean i think that's what this chapter is about is there were a lot of systemic failures that got us to where we are but even in retrospect it's hard to say exactly what should have exactly happened
00:32:52
Speaker
Yeah, and it's because the system needs to be redone, and nobody's going to do that because it's easier to just do what you know. yeah And these children don't have a lot of voices. I mean, they're not voting. Yeah.
00:33:06
Speaker
Right, exactly, exactly. Even just like in the best case scenario, of my oldest had a really, really difficult year this year, school year. There was a lot of bullying, there of things.
00:33:18
Speaker
And I have three kids. My job is to advocate for three people, three humans, and just trying to get anybody to hear me that like kids are being mean to my child just getting like an acknowledgement and somebody to like do something about it was insane huh and this is like a scenario that my child has a lot of adults in the corner like that they're taken care of they're loved they're protected And even in that best case scenario, it was like, no, can somebody listen?
00:33:52
Speaker
Yeah. All right. Next chapter. i all right. i This is dark, the title of this chapter, but just given what we know, but I think Sherry's so funny.
00:34:04
Speaker
Like she's such a good writer and I love the title title of this chapter is Mommy's Mausoleum. And I feel like she has to find some humor in things. Yeah. feel like she shares like some of our dark humor.
00:34:17
Speaker
All right. So this chapter opens with Jodi something from her Connections classroom. Yeah, this is great. What is pain?
00:34:28
Speaker
Is it wrong? Is it something to be avoided? No, pain is an opportunity for growth. It is a place where you can gain wisdom about your experience.
00:34:39
Speaker
It is an opportunity to grow. Have you heard the saying, no pain, no gain in the gym? That's what pain is for. It's an opportunity to develop, to stretch, to motivate yourself.
00:34:50
Speaker
Pain is a place where you can gain wisdom. So the reality about pain is it's necessary. It's a gift. I couldn't disagree with a statement any more than this one.
00:35:01
Speaker
Well, here's what I like. I do think there is opportunity to find wisdom in struggle. In struggle and in failures. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not sure would use the term pain. If you're talking emotional pain, sure. I can even see like when you're going through something and it's difficult and it's painful. it Like, yeah, you're going to get to the other side and you're gonna be like, you're going to learn some things.
00:35:24
Speaker
Absolutely. But gosh, I'm not going to seek out pain to grow. Yeah. ah Not going to look for the opportunities. yeah It's almost saying that pain is the only.
00:35:36
Speaker
Right. gro Right. And I believe she believes that. I think so too. And I don't think that pain is a gift. No. I'm just even reflecting on my, I had, i probably still have it, but I had hysterectomy, but my, I had terrible endometriosis and was in physical pain for 15 years.
00:35:55
Speaker
And that was not a gift. No, it was horrible. Yeah. The gift was when I woke up from a hysterectomy and was like, this is what it's like not to be in pain. There's a small gift in that. That was the gift.
00:36:08
Speaker
Being out of pain. yep Yeah. So that that's, I didn't, I didn't like that. No, no, not a fan. And we know ultimately she's talking about physical pain.
Encounter with Sherry's Father
00:36:22
Speaker
Yeah. This is one of the, the next part is one of what i find interesting. That's one of the saddest. Agreed. Yeah. Yeah. So Sherry is back on the BYU campus and she was just walking around going probably to her next class or something.
00:36:38
Speaker
And out of nowhere, ah her dad is in front of her, Professor Kevin Franke, as she writes. um It says over the past few months, he was pretty good at avoiding her.
00:36:50
Speaker
She said, we'd been like two ghosts haunting the edges of each other's lives. But then they just like, it seems like they literally ran into each other. hmm. um Our eyes locked for a split second. He looked like hell warmed over.
00:37:05
Speaker
He shot me a strained fake smile and then darted his gaze away, walking faster like he couldn't get away from me quick enough. Not a single word, just a pathetic little grimace.
00:37:16
Speaker
I wanted to run after him, grab him by the shoulders and yell in his face. Are you blind? Where are your kids? Don't you care? This is the, this is a part that i just can't imagine. No.
00:37:28
Speaker
Out of anything. Nope. I just don't see it. I don't, I don't know how in that. My greatest enemy, i would give a nod to, you know what I mean? That annoying.
00:37:41
Speaker
Yeah, I know. It's, it's, it's the, that's one of the points. Like I give, I do cut Kevin some more, so ah more slack than you do, but this is one of the like, nope, there's no, there's no excusing that.
00:37:53
Speaker
yeah it's because you think he's good looking. and I kind of do. But he also. yeah
00:38:00
Speaker
No, this and that's just this was a shocking. Yeah, there's there's this is it's inexcusable. And yeah, I yeah i don't. I agree with her calling him Kevin. Also, even to this day, if she still calls him Kevin.
00:38:16
Speaker
And I think it's amazing that she at the end says, let it go. i thought he's not capable of helping. Yeah. What an insult. Yeah. I do like the way she insults her father.
00:38:30
Speaker
like little Like he's a little man to her. I don't think he is anymore. I think they've, you know, done a lot of work. But during these times, like he was spineless to her.
00:38:41
Speaker
And I think she writes really good insults. Like maybe not insults, really good descriptions. Yeah. Yeah. So a not too much longer, beginning of December, another neighbor called Sherry and said, I thought you should know your mother is packing up the house. I think she's moving.
00:39:01
Speaker
And so she's she the neighbor says she's been asking, Ruby's been asking about HOA fees and renting and how that all works. and ah And something about that just cracks me up in the midst in the midst of all this. I know.
00:39:14
Speaker
What are the HOA fees? Yeah. Yeah. Because that's also a thing of like, Kevin's still doing all the things. He's still paying all the bills. She doesn't even know how much bills are. Yeah, I have this feeling she has absolutely no idea how to... but Their financial person is. Maybe he's not even doing it. Logistically, I feel like she has no idea how to work through this.
00:39:34
Speaker
Right. And she's asking the neighbors who don't like her.
00:39:42
Speaker
feel like there's no HOA fee if you leave.
00:39:47
Speaker
but Everyone else could stay, but I need you to. Yeah. but So, you know, Sherry goes, her mind is spinning. She's kind of panicking and she's like, where are they going? And she kind of assumes immediately they're going to Jodi's.
00:40:00
Speaker
and At this point, though, does she even know that she's spending all... Specifically, that this is where she's been spending time? Is that Jodi's? I don't think she knows, but in the series, it kind of... I think she is like... there' She's not anywhere else.
00:40:13
Speaker
Where else could she be? And she said, you know, logically, she doesn't know anybody in Ivan's. She doesn't know who she could contact to keep an eye on the things that are going on, like the neighbors um that are here.
00:40:25
Speaker
And she starts... She starts having a panic attack about, like, how, what do I, I can't protect them. Then it kind of switches that it's also like, oh, everything from my childhood is going to be gone. I have to deal with that too.
00:40:40
Speaker
The kids are just not in school right now, right? I think so. That's what Sherry knows. Like they they're they're not in school and they're being left alone. I don't think she knows that they're at Jodi's at this point. i don't know if they are at Jodi's at this point. Yeah.
00:40:56
Speaker
yeah Yeah. I guess this is that point where we we don't have a lot of knowledge of what exactly was going Right. So it's it's, yeah, all of her memories. She says like tiny treasures from the family trips, the scripture she was given by her parents when she was baptized. Like,
00:41:10
Speaker
I do also think i don't I don't put a lot of weight into things. Like i I have a lot of things that make me happy and are silly and fun, but I'm not a big like this one thing is like encapsulates everything about this person or and you know anything like that.
00:41:28
Speaker
um And so I had to kind of turn that off to be like, why would she even want the scriptures from her when she was baptized from her parents who she hates? and i'm like, because it's not about that. It's like I had to work very hard to be like, yes, this thing is important and that's okay.
00:41:45
Speaker
Even from her parents that she's, things are really bad with right now. Well, and going back to my child that I'm an advocate for, that's one thing I never really fully understood before is that foster kids, they don't have things that are theirs.
00:41:59
Speaker
And while, you know, we all look like, oh, things aren't important or kids are too spoiled and have too many things and you know what, there is an importance to them.
00:42:10
Speaker
Everybody wants to have things that are theirs. And so, yeah and with foster children too, they grow up and then they don't have any memories or any things from their childhood.
00:42:24
Speaker
And so it's almost like that childhood gets erased. So no matter what, even if it was traumatic, yeah it still is your childhood and you still
Importance of Personal Belongings
00:42:31
Speaker
deserve to. So i that is one thing I do yeah for him is And, you know, even going foster home to foster home, I don't feel like things would travel with him. So I keep him, I keep him a memory box. And so he knows that anything he wants to make sure gets saved. And he understands that that's for when he grows up so that he has things. I do love that. And, you know, yeah. And I do tell him like I do that for my kids. So.
00:42:55
Speaker
um We were cleaning out his toys the other day and it it is hard for him to part with anything. Yeah, I bet. yeah and'd be like, well, do you want me to put this in your memory box? So, you know, it's not gone. right and That helped. Yeah. Oh, I do love that.
00:43:09
Speaker
But back to back to Sherry. So, I mean, I guess I, the same thing, right? You don't put value on things, but you know what? To not have any of it, which sure yeah she says, I needed something, anything to hold on to some scrap of proof that I'd existed.
00:43:25
Speaker
Mm hmm. And I see that a lot. like yeah I mean, I fully understand that. Yeah. So she composes an email to Ruby trying to keep her emotions in check. um Just like very neutrally saying, I need to get. So I would like to retrieve some things.
00:43:41
Speaker
um Takes days. For Ruby to reply because she's just cruel. And finally, she tells Mr. Heyman that she needed his help.
00:43:51
Speaker
She needed to get some of the things out of the house before it's too late. And says that she doesn't think she can do it alone. Thankfully. Well, mean. And so. i mean, it turns out no one's there, but. Yeah.
00:44:03
Speaker
But still, like, gosh, yeah. I think it's, I think it matters that she asked him. like she wanted a man yeah to be with her, a safe man. And so the next day they pull up to Ruby's house.
00:44:16
Speaker
Her car wasn't there and it looked completely empty. The curtains are shut. She just say, if the kids are, we're home. I knew Ruby would have instructed them not to answer my knock at the door, which was locked. Um,
00:44:29
Speaker
And I was sure they'd been told not to talk to me, especially. i was the bad guy. So she marches her way around to the back heck and squeezes herself through the doggy door. Love that.
00:44:41
Speaker
And ah yeah, no one is home. um There were boxes around that was, you know, Ruby was packing. So she went up to her very quiet bedroom and just started gathering things.
00:44:54
Speaker
But remembered along that, in that time that it it was her a parent's anniversary in just a few days which i think is an interesting thing to to think about yeah because to be honest i forget mine
00:45:09
Speaker
yeah it would have been their 22nd anniversary and she just yeah she's like kind of stood there clutching her things being like this is it yeah and she closes the chapter Happy anniversary, Ruby and kevin Hope it was
Seeking Family Connection
00:45:27
Speaker
worth it. All right. So chapter 41, nobody's daughter opens with a journal entry.
00:45:34
Speaker
I feel like an orphan, like I'm nobody's daughter, but I know that I am his. I belong to Jesus Christ. Not even Jodi can change that. Now this is another one of those things that sort of shocks me that she had not done before.
00:45:48
Speaker
And that is that she reaches out to her aunts. Yeah. Who don't, live all that far at least one of them doesn't live far lives like five minutes away huh yeah i think it was probably a lot of the alienation from ruby also and maybe it didn't like they hadn't talked to them in so long that it didn't really occur to her yeah that yeah i just that they could be a help ah ah no I know. No, yeah, I mean, I get that. I just feel. Yeah, I do think it's, yeah I think it's interesting too.
00:46:22
Speaker
For me, it's like the object, object permanence thing of ADHD is I'd be like, oh, wait, I could call these people who I haven't seen in a long time. They weren't in front of my face, so I didn't realize it.
00:46:34
Speaker
yeah Yeah, that's true. I guess if they, and I guess they hadn't been playing a strong part in their life for a while because of the, because they had, broken apart from Ruby so yeah I mean I guess I understand I think that would be the only thing I'd really I'd just be like oh shoot wait I should probably call my aunt joy about my mom being crazy yeah sorry mom you're not crazy well no yeah so she reaches out to uh um which one oh she reaches out to her aunt Julie
00:47:08
Speaker
On Instagram. So it feels like they don't even have her, like she doesn't even have her number. She reached out on Instagram. I know. um And she replies and just says, like, they just moved. They're not far. And we think about you all the time.
00:47:23
Speaker
again, kind of strange that they hadn't reached out to her either. Although they have no idea at this point what's going on. Right. They have no idea. And Ruby probably told them not to reach out to the kids, is my guess.
00:47:36
Speaker
So they get together. So as a flurry of activity followed, they decided to get dinner together. Julie told Bonnie and Ellie, and before I knew it, Ellie was driving the four hours trip from St. George, where she lived, for a big dinner at Julie's house.
00:47:49
Speaker
Ruby's three sisters and me. I do love that they dropped everything and made it happen. I appreciate that. Yeah. And I'm glad they did. It does seem like it was, it wasn't easy. Yeah. um I guess it just wasn't all.
00:48:05
Speaker
Yeah. says this dinner was complicated. Yeah. And I think that's okay. I think that's the pain that you can grow from, Jodi. That's good point. That's a good point.
00:48:16
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. They were desperate for information. Yeah. as As they would be. Yeah. Yeah. And then they were enraged at Ruby at this point. I think they'd probably been enraged at Ruby for quite a while.
00:48:28
Speaker
Yeah. She calls the dinner intense but grounding. Mm-hmm. It's like there is there are people who are related to you by blood who want to help.
00:48:40
Speaker
And I think I just like, I appreciate that she's expanding her circle of adults that are behind her. Yeah. I feel almost like she's collecting adults that are safe.
00:48:52
Speaker
And you have to. Yeah. Everyone has, yeah. Yeah. need She and her Aunt Julie um grew closer, she says. um I mean, I'm assuming she probably grew closer to all of them, but she was the closest, like proximity wise. So ironically, Julie, I think is the one who, like I know what you were just thinking. and
00:49:16
Speaker
Ironically, Julie is the one who I think she still had, she had, did she, she was, had the family vlog and still does, I believe.
00:49:27
Speaker
I think so. I think that's, I think she's the, yeah. And she's defended it pretty hard. But I feel like it's her only source of income. And I think so too.
00:49:38
Speaker
So sometimes family isn't just what you're born into. It's also what you build in the aftermath of loss. Yeah. And.
00:49:49
Speaker
Yep. Absolutely. I can fully understand. Yeah. You have to move on. Yeah, Absolutely. And you get to pick. You do. You get to choose. So we move on to something completely different.
00:50:02
Speaker
Sherry is just watch TV. She is watching naturecri ducky or true crime show with her roommates. And she says that it feels like she couldn't watch anything else lately.
00:50:13
Speaker
And she thinks that it was really like... looking for answers. I know there's always a question of like, why do, why are people fascinated with true crime? And especially women, why do women watch true crime? And the answer is always anxiety.
00:50:28
Speaker
say, I don't know, but I mean, I do the same thing. I find so like If I'm like, I can't find something to to watch, I'll turn on like discovery ID. It's just sort sad that it's so easy to watch somebody else's. I know. but I know.
00:50:43
Speaker
But the story that she's watching is it was about a woman trapped in a controlling relationship. And this kind of clicks that this is how Derek is to her. It's just like the story of ages.
Realization of Derek's Threat
00:51:01
Speaker
Yeah. ah Right? It's that cycle. It never, never changes, does it? Nope. So she's thinking through this. And then she said, there's something he said that couldn't get out of my head.
00:51:12
Speaker
He said, you need to learn to defend yourself. If ever you're in a bad situation, Sherry, I'll teach you. And she gets uneasy and asks how.
00:51:24
Speaker
A slow smile spread across his face. I'll just show up at your college campus disguised and I'll attack you just to see if you've been paying attention. And she's like, nah, what?
00:51:36
Speaker
he says, yeah, just to make sure that you're prepared and know how to react. He'd said it no so nonchalantly as though it wasn't a threat, but it was. I knew it was. It was him reminding me that at any given moment he could do whatever he wanted with me and I'd be powerless to stop him.
00:51:53
Speaker
How terrifying. How completely deranged and weird. Yeah. um I'm not sure what else to say about that. yeah No, it's just, and then and then he starts texting again.
00:52:09
Speaker
and he's still saying the things like, everyone's let you down. I'm the only person who's here for you. I'm the only person who cares. It's just. It's a classic. Yeah, it's the isolation part. Yeah, yeah. Veiled threat. Yeah.
00:52:20
Speaker
isolation and then coming to your need and you need me. I'm the only one who can help. And she keeps watching the show and the, on the show, the man kills the woman who he's obsessed with.
00:52:34
Speaker
um And during this, she suddenly thought, I need my father. Yeah. And she, she wishes she could have called him. She wishes he could have been the protector, but she says he wasn't my protector anymore. He was just another person who had let me down. Another person who had turned their back when I needed them most.
00:52:52
Speaker
I think we always have this idea and and we always say it that when it comes down to it, family will be there for you. Yeah. But it's sad when they're not. and And it's true that sometimes they're not. Yep.
00:53:05
Speaker
Yeah. um It's a big letdown. it's a Yeah. Because she's got a kind of balance like this relationship. This one man in her life is being so strong in a negative way, i will say. Like, Derek is so powerful in her life.
00:53:26
Speaker
And then at her age, the man that should be the powerful force in her life for positive ways just isn't. Yeah. You do always think. I don't know.
00:53:37
Speaker
And that's, I think, when you feel the true, the true sever in a relationship is when something really bad happens. And those people that you always say, but you know what? Well, they'll be there for me.
00:53:49
Speaker
Yeah. Aren't they'll, we'll bring us back together. And then it doesn't. Yeah. And it does. It will say on the flip side. There have been some pretty terrible moments and people that I thought cared about me and loved me showed up in ways that I never would have expected.
00:54:03
Speaker
And so, yeah, just hang on to that, guys.
00:54:08
Speaker
That is true. So... um She just, her birthday's coming up and she just decides she' like she's ending it.
00:54:18
Speaker
Yeah. Derek, it's just done. Yeah. she's She prays for a sign and the next morning she woke up with tears down her face and the three words that rang in her mind was, it ends now.
00:54:31
Speaker
And that was all I needed. And so she's still praying. She's leaning into her faith. She's doing these huge scary things and she is praying about it and she texts her bishop saying that she needs to confess and that that like i'm so glad she's speaking to someone i'm so glad she's finally gonna come forward but gosh that she feels like she has to confess and then what happened it just makes me so angry but she gets away ultimately she gets out
00:55:04
Speaker
Yeah. it's It's her process to get out. Yeah, it does. And i she's got to get the words out. She's got it It does surprise me that it's directly to the bishop. I don't love the way the bishop ends up handling it, but it could be worse.
00:55:18
Speaker
ah so It is kind of par for the course as we've talked about the LDS church on the podcast, but she gets out. But so she sends it and she says, she thinks to herself, I'm going to get kicked out of the church, but I had to do this.
Breaking Free from Derek
00:55:31
Speaker
So next she texts her Aunt Julie and says that she has to talk to them about something. And she immediately goes over. She left. I think this is so smart, but so scary that she has to do it. She left her phone at the apartment so he couldn't track her.
00:55:47
Speaker
So smart. So she finds herself um at Julie's house and just tells them what she's she kind of like spills what she can. And again, this is one of those things that surprises me.
00:56:00
Speaker
It took so long for her to to turn to them at all. And then and then here. that uh you know her aunt was the first one that she could actually get the words out to and so i'm glad i mean yeah that's wonderful i wish maybe she had turned to them a little bit earlier but yeah but i think it's it's probably the thing of like like we kind of said she's collecting her safe people and then she's like oh i have enough safe people yeah now's the time i'm ready and i'm maturing and mm-hmm Building myself up along the way.
00:56:32
Speaker
Yeah. And so she, Julie says, we support you no matter what, Sherry. So she goes back to the apartment to get her phone, but then immediately goes back to her aunt's house because she didn't want to be alone.
00:56:45
Speaker
And she missed a bunch of texts from Derek. And she says, it's the longest I'd ever gone without responding to him. Which crazy. Which is crazy.
00:56:57
Speaker
So he says, spending the day with her aunt in Provo. ah But he's put your phone showed you're at your apartment all day. He's like, I forgot to bring it. That's why i didn't respond until now. And he's he's like, he knows something's going on.
00:57:11
Speaker
And she's like, I'm fine.
00:57:15
Speaker
She hasn't really had anyone in her life, I guess, beyond the Heymans. but and And he discouraged that relationship. Yeah. But now this is one of the only relationships that she could be talking to or exposing what he's doing to her.
00:57:30
Speaker
Yeah. And so he even says, you're sad because it's your birthday, aren't you? You're sad that you don't have your family to celebrate with. It's okay. I'm here, Sherry. You won't be alone on your birthday.
00:57:41
Speaker
I'll make it special for you. I'll take you to dinner. She didn't even respond. Oh, she didn't respond. But 30 minutes later, Derek pulled up to her aunt's house. This is the boldness, the creepiness and the gall.
00:57:58
Speaker
Yeah. I'm doing this. Yeah. Blows me away. And so they watch him from the window, get out of the car, pull up next to her car and then.
00:58:13
Speaker
put arm loads of gifts by her car and then just drives away i love this aunt julie stared aghast at this nearly 50 year old man acting like some lovesick santa claus he's old enough to be your father a married man chasing after my niece Yeah. And she starts apologizing. I know. that Basically saying, I never meant to get you involved in this. so Well, I shouldn't. I don't i don't know. Because she says, I'm sorry. I never meant to.
00:58:46
Speaker
And what do you think? Let it get this far far. Or get you involved. Because i think I think you were probably right with the first one, getting her involved because she went to her house. And now he knows where she lives. And I imagine there's a guilt with that.
00:58:59
Speaker
That's not warranted. She shouldn't. But. I can just knowing how, what we know of ah Sherry, how she takes everything on. Yeah. Yeah. um But Julie's immediately like, none of this is your fault.
00:59:10
Speaker
Right. And do you want us to you know intervene on your, on your behalf? Yeah. She says, no, he won't believe it. If it's anybody but her. Mature. I'd like to just run and hide. That would be where I'd want my echo chamber of running and hiding. Yeah.
00:59:26
Speaker
So she goes back to the apartment and, just start sobbing uncontrollably. And she's so tired. I feel like this is like straight exhaustion that she doesn't care to hide it from her roommates.
00:59:40
Speaker
She's hit her tipping point. Yeah. And she's like, I don't even care anymore. Who sees? And I love, I love, she calls her the conservative roommate. Asks what happened. And she said, I couldn't believe that this person among the most religiously conforming girls I knew was about to be the first person I'd ever fully confide in about this.
00:59:59
Speaker
But that's what happened. So she tells her every, and I, like, this has been two years and she's lived with these women for a year at least.
01:00:10
Speaker
I, like, going through all this and just pretending like everything's okay with, like, the people you live with who you may not be, like, the best of friends with. It seems like they weren't super duper close at this point, but you see them every single day.
01:00:26
Speaker
And we've all had that where like where she says, ah like its this is not the person I thought I would be spilling this out to first. But you know it's what happened.
01:00:37
Speaker
We've all how it kind of had that where you spill something. to You just gotta have to get it out. And and sometimes it's somebody you don't know even know very closely. I just got to get it off my chest and I have to do it right now.
01:00:49
Speaker
Yeah. And she, the conservative roommate, is completely compassionate and unjudgmental and insistent that none of it is her fault. Mm-hmm. And then ah Sherry is concerned her temple recommend will be taken. Mm-hmm.
01:01:07
Speaker
Which this is, I'll quote what she writes, A temple recommend is the document that certifies you're worthy to enter and participate in temple ceremonies. If you engage in serious sin, though, it can be revoked.
01:01:19
Speaker
It would be a great source of shame to me if that happened. It would distance me from God. It is my worst case scenario. And then this roommate starts kind of getting, she's like, that can't happen.
01:01:30
Speaker
That starts pacing and is like anxious about it for Sherry when the other roommate comes in. So seeing Sherry sobbing, the other roommate like pacing around frantically. I just feel like it's, she walked into big deal.
01:01:45
Speaker
Yeah. And yeah, you can't lose it. That wouldn't be right. This isn't your fault.
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01:01:51
Speaker
Yeah. So they talked to the other roommate also. Sherry says that I'm going to end it, but we have to be extra cautious, which I didn't even consider until I read this. Like now her home's not safe for the two people who have nothing to do with this. Right, right, right.
01:02:08
Speaker
And they were frightened. Yeah. Yeah. So she does it. She goes into her bedroom and she sends the message. She says, Derek, I'm done. It's over. I want you to leave me alone forever. And they get in. Like, he just turns into a big old baby. Like, he has been the whole time.
01:02:24
Speaker
Like, fine. Have a good life. and so think they Yeah. Returned in middle school here. Yeah, they start like, she's like, you're a liar. You never loved me.
01:02:34
Speaker
and and she stays firm. When he says, fine, have a good life, she blocks him. And then there's a soft knock on her door, and it's her roommates asking to come in.
01:02:45
Speaker
one of them says, isn't it your birthday? and the other says, we should get stuff to make pizza and watch a movie. No one should be allowed to ruin this day. so they just.
01:02:57
Speaker
That simple kindness. I just think it's so sweet. normal. activity in what has otherwise been such as tumultuous last few years, i think means a lot her. Yep. um The next day she has a Zoom call with her bishop.
01:03:11
Speaker
He appeared super concerned. ah She says he was gentle and encouraging. And then she says she doesn't even know where to start to to explain what's going on. And she, I mean, what she says also tells you kind of what she still believed at the time.
01:03:27
Speaker
um She says, I got involved with someone, a married man, Derek. And things happen that they shouldn't have. It's all my fault. I knew better, but still. And thankfully, the bishop is understanding to some extent.
01:03:44
Speaker
And Sherry, I want you to listen to me very carefully. You were put in a situation no young person should have had to pay. So she's still prepared like for whatever punishment.
01:03:55
Speaker
And he said, hold on, Sherry. I'm not sure punishment is what you need right now. Unfortunately, it's not ultimately up to him if there's going to be any consequences. I think it's encouraging that he doesn't think there should be, but it has to go up the chain.
01:04:11
Speaker
and Yeah, because he does throw in there, normally in a situation like this, the minimum level of church discipline is losing your temple recommend. And then he goes on, yes, to say, you know, but this is maybe a little different.
01:04:28
Speaker
i don't know. It just kind of seemed passive aggressive to me that he even had to say that. Yeah, but I agree. um So it has to go to the stake president, which is like a level higher. And so when the bishop calls her after a few days, um he said, he reminded me that we do have a responsibility to ensure that our members are living in accordance with God's law. He thinks it's best for you to take a break from the temple for a bit and hold off on taking sacrament for a little while while we investigate. I'm sorry, Sherry.
01:04:58
Speaker
And so, yes, for at least a little while, she was losing her temple recommend. Then she gets mad. She gets sad. Then she gets mad. Glad she got mad. Because what's going to happen to him, to Derek?
01:05:11
Speaker
So he's in a different ward, right? Yeah. And her bishop is going to reach out to his bishop. He doesn't know what will happen. um He'll keep her informed.
01:05:24
Speaker
He says, I'll pray for you. And then the emails began. So the bishops speak and then Derek knows that the bishops know. And so he starts apologizing and wanting to talk.
01:05:38
Speaker
And then when she stops responding, he gets mad also. Cher, you can't do this. I need you and you need me. Don't do this. He starts texting from his son's number who was on a mission. So he took his son's phone and was texting her.
01:05:55
Speaker
He started driving by. the apartment and around the block. um At one point, it says, my roommates and I huddled in the living room, curtains drawn, one of them peeking out to make sure he was gone before any of us dared leave the apartment.
01:06:09
Speaker
So he's stalking her, basically. Mm-hmm. He's got a lot to lose. Yeah. But eventually it died down. He stopped. She says she remained hypervigilant, always on high alert, looking over her shoulder.
01:06:23
Speaker
um And she was worried he was going to show up and take her because he had threatened that already. So this is if anybody wants to get angry, just prepare yourselves for being angry. If you need to, like, have the anger emotion, listen to this part. Yeah.
01:06:39
Speaker
Derek received no disciplinary action whatsoever. He denied everything and his bishop believed him without question. Which is infuriating, but to me, not aye not surprising.
01:06:53
Speaker
Not surprising. Nope. After a month, she's given her templelar temple recommend back. but But it still didn't undo the fact that I've been made to feel like this was all my fault.
01:07:06
Speaker
Yeah. She makes it very clear. She says, I lost all trust and faith, not in God, but in these men who faced with a young woman's pain, decided to brush it under the carpet and protect their friend.
01:07:19
Speaker
Which is tale as old as time. Not just in this church, just in the world. Gestures vaguely. I'm glad at this point she did decide to change her ward.
01:07:32
Speaker
Yep. And to make a fresh start with a new bishop and a new community. And I do think that was a very, very good move. Yeah. And it's even a further... She doesn't say it, but it's further severing ties with her family. She's picking her own church.
01:07:46
Speaker
Yeah. um it And it is, it would be very easy for for her to have left the church altogether and with her bitterness. um But yeah she's strong.
01:08:00
Speaker
And it just shows you how much comfort she gets from her church and how she wants it to help her. through these difficultff difficult times. I am not a big churchgoer, so it's a little hard for me to understand, but I'm very happy for her that she has this and I'm happy for anyone um who gets that sense of peace. Yes, absolutely.
01:08:19
Speaker
All right. So next time join us, we will hopefully wrap up part five and can't wait to talk ah more. Get into part five with you guys. Bye.
01:08:38
Speaker
Bye.
01:08:56
Speaker
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