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Book Club: The House of my Mother by Shari Franke, Part Four, Part Two
75 Plays4 months ago
We are full-speed ahead on Jodi's control of the Franke family. Shari is the only one who sees how terrible things truly have gotten.
Check out our YouTube channel, Fixate Today: Grey Matters
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Transcript
Introduction and Personal Update
00:00:00
Speaker
Hi, everyone. Welcome back to the channel. We are continuing to walk through Sherry Frankie's book, The House of My Mother. We are still in part four. we're just going to pick back up where we left off.
00:00:13
Speaker
Just a friendly reminder, I can't sit still and I am recovering from a back injury. So I'm like moving around real weird. Moving around maybe more than normal and in weird ways.
00:00:26
Speaker
Don't judge me. I'm doing my best.
00:00:30
Speaker
We're all friends here. We're all friends here.
Religious Struggles and Hypocrisies
00:00:32
Speaker
So yeah, where we just left off was kind of talking about Sherry's devotion to her religion and understanding that what Jodi and Ruby are doing is twisting that, that that the teachings of the church. Yeah. And also possibly practicing a relationship.
00:00:54
Speaker
A gay, I mean, they're having a gay relationship. They're, they're having a relationship together while preaching that being gay is a sin. And so, yeah, they're.
00:01:06
Speaker
Sherry sees the hypocrisy. Yeah. But also sees that if they had just, accepted that and been honest about that, maybe all the rest of what happened.
00:01:17
Speaker
Could have been stuff Yeah. Yeah.
College as Freedom and Conflict
00:01:20
Speaker
So we are on chapter 27 called Dirty, Shameful, Ruined. This is a tough chapter, but let's get into it.
00:01:31
Speaker
Two weeks after Jodi moved in, college started, which meant I was finally able to escape. Oh, the joy I felt fleeing that festering wound of a household. So Sherry's off to her first semester at Brigham Young University.
00:01:46
Speaker
This is also where Kevin teaches. So I think in in you know the sliding doors world of Jodi never coming into their lives, that's such a comfort to have your dad on campus. You're still living off campus, but your dad's available to you if you need anything. You'd think. Yeah, right. In in in the world that it's a not a festering wound of a household.
00:02:10
Speaker
But let's keep in mind, this is 10 minutes from their house. Yeah. Yes. It seems like she's going away to college. Even she she says it felt a million miles away. Yeah. It's 10 minutes. Yeah.
00:02:20
Speaker
Yeah. Ruby and Kevin drove me to my college dorm and helped me move in, all caught on camera, and later uploaded to the eight passengers, which Ruby was still clinging on to for dear life.
00:02:35
Speaker
Yep. She says it's all fake. It was all for the camera. And it filled her with a rage so intense it nearly knocked me off my feet. She's pretending to be a perfect mother when all she cared about was Jodi.
00:02:47
Speaker
And this is the first time, Sherry says it's the first time that she ever... Alone. Like, actually alone. No siblings, no parents. Like, not being documented all the time.
00:03:01
Speaker
And I can see that as being a strange feeling. Very jarring. I live with my my mom, my husband, my adult daughter, and and her fiancé right now.
00:03:12
Speaker
And I still get a different feeling, but on occasion. And it's root very... that I am alone in the house. Like, for me, it feels... ah So relaxing, but it's a different feeling nonetheless. So if if you grow yeah grow grew up in a big family, ah i mean, she had virtually never been alone at home.
00:03:31
Speaker
Yeah. And I don't think she quite sees it a little bit as a sense of calm. Yeah. But I mean, it's also got to be a sense of anxiety a bit. She's not used to that. Yeah. As much as I love to be alone, I hate silence.
00:03:43
Speaker
A lot of people aren't that way. Yeah. Yeah. But immediately, not even there an hour, it feels like, she gets a text from Derek. says, right on cue.
00:03:54
Speaker
Want to stop by the office later once you're settled in? I got you some back to school gifts.
Derek's Manipulative Advances
00:04:00
Speaker
Remember that North face jacket you wanted? It's like textbook grooming, but she wouldn't know that.
00:04:06
Speaker
So she goes over, she does head over. ah hate this part. I hate this part. She's starting to, like, she's starting to physically feel the nerves, right? My heart was pounding and my skin felt too tight.
00:04:20
Speaker
That type of feeling had not been coming into the picture. She had not been describing any feelings like that in the past. Um, Yeah. So something's changing. Yeah. Her, all of her, even, you know, I think Derek was the catalyst for, like, I think her body knew something was wrong and was trying to tell her.
00:04:37
Speaker
um But also her entire life has been anxiety and depression. And so I think, you know, what was happening with Derek was the catalyst for like these more physical expressions of the anxiety.
00:04:49
Speaker
So she's having a panic attack. Yeah. I wasn't sure why I felt so nervous. In hindsight, perhaps it was my intuition trying to tell me something, to turn around, go back to my college dorm, and never talk to this middle-aged man again.
00:05:04
Speaker
yeah never thought about this before, but maybe being outside the home and having the nerves and the anxiety over just what was going on there. With that gone, she could focus in and actually see more clearly what was happening with Derek.
00:05:19
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. So what he does is disgusting. He guides her to the couch and his hand gently on her shoulders. At first, it seems like he's trying to help. Like, like he's, she's focusing on his voice, like trying to, it feels like breathe with the beat of what he's saying, but it didn't help.
00:05:37
Speaker
And so he tells her that the best thing that they can do is skin-to-skin contact to help calm down. Now that just, that line. Yep.
00:05:48
Speaker
Just gave me it's an ick like no other. Yeah. Her body, like everything in her is screaming no, but her mouth wouldn't work. um She shook her head and she tried to push him away.
00:06:02
Speaker
ah But he kept saying, it he said, trust me, he murmured his hot breath against my ear. Just let me help you, oh Sherry. And then he starts taking her clothes off. She said she fought. She squirmed. He was bigger than me, stronger than me. And the more I struggled, the more powerless I felt.
00:06:17
Speaker
And so he like takes, I think he he took her shirt off. So she still had her bra on, but she said like, he's touching her everywhere. and Keeping in mind, I don't think she's, you know, she went through her little kissing phase, but he's never had any but that's it um contact like this.
00:06:36
Speaker
I assume. Yeah. Yeah. And she, she, oh, this is, he says, see, he said, it's not so bad. Now just relax for me. Be a good girl.
00:06:49
Speaker
It's horrific. um And he's still trying. He's like, you feel better now, right? yeah ah And she's like completely dissociated. She says she doesn't know how she got back home. or back to her dorm.
00:07:01
Speaker
She said she laid there for hours. This is her first night of college. Like her first, like she hears the laughter and she hears people like meeting each other.
00:07:11
Speaker
And all she can think of is I've sinned. I thought I've ruined everything. It felt like a punishment, a divine reckoning for all the ways I had failed, all the ways I'd fallen short in my mind, my frozenness, my inability to move was a sign from God, a punishment for my transgressions.
00:07:27
Speaker
This is the spirit telling me I need to repent, I thought. There's just too much. There's too much there. Yeah. Yep. So yeah, she's hearing others laughing and chatting, you know, in the dorm as they should be.
00:07:42
Speaker
And she just said, but I was separated, cut off. She couldn't. Yep. So after a few hours, she just laid there for hours. um She pulled her phone out and she had missed some calls from Derek, who when she...
00:07:57
Speaker
ah Calls and texts and he like demanded to know where she was. And it's like he this happened and he's immediately possessive. And but she justifies it to herself. And I think she justifies it to herself the same way she kind of had to justify to herself what was happening in her home to some level.
00:08:16
Speaker
And she's just like he's just worried. I should get back to him because he'll get more upset and more concerned. But when she finally answers, he says, are you talking to any boys? So he is, you know, this, this incident went from for Derek's controllingness and possessiveness, zero to a hundred.
00:08:37
Speaker
Her relationship with Derek at this point has to become a little bit more secretive out of shame. So now she's got these two. yeah two different aspects of of her life that she's dealing with, but can't be open with anyone else about she's dealing with on her own from two, with two, two different angles.
00:08:59
Speaker
And I also say that, um, as the media, as the coverage of this case went, there was never any talk about, um, Derek. It, it, there nothing came out about this. Nothing. Nobody was aware of this, that Sherry was battling this until, um,
00:09:14
Speaker
until this book so yeah this was a revelation in this book nobody knew anything about this all right so we move on to chapter 28 which is like this is the most jarring chapter title change from i forget already what it was dirty shameful ruin from 27 to 28 is grateful college life introduced me to the peculiar experience of having a non-sibling roommate To say we were an odd couple would be an understatement.
00:09:41
Speaker
I was the quintessential early bird greeting the dawn with enthusiasm while she was a night owl of Olympic proportions. Our schedules were so misaligned that I'd often be crawling into bed just as she was applying makeup for the night.
00:09:55
Speaker
And I certainly never felt able to confide in her about what I was going through with Derek and how possessive he had become since what happened on the first day of school. But she knew it was not, like she couldn't talk to... it her roommate or any of our anyone else at school yeah about what was going on with Derek. um but But it seems like nobody told like Derek didn't tell her that straight out.
00:10:20
Speaker
She never says that he says you can't tell anybody, but it's like a thing that she almost like naturally immediately knows this has to be a secret. And he, I think, knows that she knows that. I mean, I don't think he even... I don't think he... He didn't necessarily have to tell her. It's something he didn't even yeah need to worry about. Yeah.
00:10:38
Speaker
Because he knew wouldn't come out.
Family Thanksgiving Dynamics
00:10:41
Speaker
So she's kind of trying to pretend like what happened with Derek didn't happen. Just, I think, simply to go get through. it sounds like she goes out with some friends...
00:10:50
Speaker
For what? Some ice cream? ah normal like interaction. Yeah. Says a rare moment moment of normalcy. And ah derek Derek, of course, checks in and asks what she's doing. And when she says she's just like hanging out, there happens to be a boy there.
00:11:05
Speaker
um He immediately goes, you don't care about me anymore. That's not very nice. It's so gross. Like... Like he's treating her like a child. Like he knows she's a child. Like that's not very nice of you.
00:11:17
Speaker
It's just it's so gross. So he's treating her like a child, but also acting like a teenager himself. Yeah. It's very confusing. It had to be for for her.
00:11:29
Speaker
Yeah, so she's kind of stunned. she And she's like, was I doing something wrong by like just hanging out with someone? She says logically she knows she should stay away from Derek. like She knew that, but she has void missing from the attention that she's receiving from him.
00:11:46
Speaker
ah There's an absence of a father. Yeah, she can't count on her family at this point. u huh ah It's, you know, all new friends, but, you know, your friends aren't deep, deep friends at this point.
00:12:02
Speaker
There's no one to really talk to. Derek is consistent. I mean, he's been there. he's comfortable, you know, maybe comfortable to some extent extent, but she knows she should be keeping her distance.
00:12:14
Speaker
Yeah. I know it's a trope. they They say, I think this is a gross saying, but saying like, girls or women who have daddy issues. And there is, there's, there's something missing in her life from, from the influence of an older man, a healthy influence that a child should get from their father.
00:12:34
Speaker
And I think she knows that it what's happening with Derek is very different, but it is an older man validating her and and giving her attention that she kind of craves from her own father.
00:12:47
Speaker
And her knowing that it's wrong is just making her guilt worse and the feelings of shame. Yep. Well, and and it it comes into, we talked a lot about this in our Duggars series, but the purity culture of some some religions that, you know, any, and we talked like her makeouts with boys, she would feel so sinful and wrong.
00:13:08
Speaker
And yeah, it's it's the thing of like a quote transgression with anyone of the opposite gender. is something to be shameful if you're not married.
00:13:19
Speaker
And most of the time in religion ah that, pro that expound, you know, embrace purity culture. It's the girl's fault. It's the woman's fault, no matter what.
00:13:31
Speaker
So there is just like a built-in level of shame, even in best case scenario without everything else happening. And you wonder, she never says this, but you wonder if Derek is planting even more of that idea within her, even though,
00:13:45
Speaker
He's participating in it. um He knows how, how. Like she tempted him or things like that. Yeah. Yeah. How whatever she did was more of a sin or that she was now unpure.
00:13:59
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. So ah she says halfway through the first semester, she goes home um because she needed to get a book. But really, she was missing her siblings. And, you know, she still hears the regular sounds of Ruby and Jodi chit-chatting in the bedroom.
00:14:15
Speaker
um And Kevin comes out from the backyard. And, you know, she says, I just have to go grab this book. And ah it's it she says it's not possible for her to go to her room and grab it.
00:14:27
Speaker
um that she has to schedule a time with her mother to go to her room to get a copy of this book. She does say that she wishes at this point that she could tell Kevin about Derek, but no, she can't.
00:14:41
Speaker
But I find it interesting that it was Derek, it was Kevin she would go to, if anyone, not even Ruby. yeah Yeah. I would think most kids would think to go to their mother to talk. Yeah. Yeah. At least most girls would go to their mom and yeah and and i't i don't don't know i there are always these glimmers of like he has good father in him but then chooses ruby every time and i wonder if she would have written that in the same tone had she wrote it immediately after this event if oh yeah if she would have been as lenient with her father or or if
00:15:17
Speaker
With time, he she has forgiven more and she sees a little bit more of the, she has a little bit more compassion for for what he went through.
00:15:28
Speaker
Yeah, I think for sure. I can't see her writing so nicely about him like the day after he tried to get her arrested. didn't see my kid. So we get to Thanksgiving and I remember all of these milestones like in my first semester of school of Thanksgiving was different because I went to school in Canada. So Thanksgiving is at a different time.
00:15:47
Speaker
actually had to miss Thanksgiving for the first time because it's in October. you Yeah, it's in October in Canada. So they had ah that weekend off and then like American Thanksgiving didn't have off. So I would I would try if I could throughout college to make it so I didn't have Friday classes the first semester so I could go home.
00:16:06
Speaker
For at least, like, the end of Thanksgiving. But I just remember all of these, like, the first time you go home from a college break. And i just it just made me really sad because she, like, had she had a lot of that stolen. Like, there's supposed to be... yeah That first, like, Thanksgiving home is supposed to be, like, a big deal. Like, you're still dealing with some homesickness at that point. And kind of gives you a refresh of home to, like, go back. And not only and not only can she...
00:16:33
Speaker
not do it she what what she wishes She wishes she could. yeah She wishes it you know it could be like a year before. And that's just denied to her, even if she but even when she does go home.
00:16:46
Speaker
So so She's wondering, like, usually they go to a grandparent's house. It looks like they switch off every year. she and then she describes the, you know, their families. Kevin's house, um there was a ton of people all the time.
00:17:01
Speaker
Easily more than 50 people crammed into the house. She said it was like a good chaos. Yeah. So the downside was my grandparents weren't much for cooking. So we often ended up with a spread of store-bought dishes that left much to be desired.
00:17:14
Speaker
And then on the flip side, Ruby's family, when they hosted Thanksgiving, it was like less lively, less like exciting, but like they were all cooking amazing food.
Thanksgiving Traditions Discussion
00:17:26
Speaker
So she said, ah Homemade dishes that filled the house with mouthwatering aromas and left us all in a pleasant food coma by the end of the night. Once she was in high school, once the rift between Ruby and her family started, they and and Kevin's parents were getting older, so it was hard for them to host. They started doing Thanksgivings together just at home.
00:17:48
Speaker
And it was one of her favorite Thanksgivings was the year before it was just the eight of them. And I don't know. I don't know. hey Well, we're in the same boat. Like we always have Thanksgivings with our moms because we live with our moms.
00:18:00
Speaker
But when my husband and I got married, we decided Thanksgiving was ours. My parents and Nate's parents had like different Christmas traditions that made it work. We've always been able to see both sides of the family on Christmas.
00:18:14
Speaker
um But we very early were like, We're having our own, like, we're not going anywhere for Thanksgiving. If people want to come to our house for like a dessert, we'll make extra pies. But beside that, like we, like we called Thanksgiving and our first Thanksgiving we had, like we lived in a tiny apartment and like had nothing.
00:18:32
Speaker
And it was like one of my favorite memories of our marriage was just like, we had our, just the two of us Thanksgiving sitting on the floor. for us, Thanksgiving is our tradition is to do the absolutely having no traditions i love it like that is our thing like we'll go on a trip we'll go sometimes you know sometimes we'll go to my sister's and have a thanksgiving sometimes usually usually at least one of us is out of town or flying in or yeah i don't know we just we love our thanksgivings being so non-thanksgiving that uh and i've gone through life um
00:19:10
Speaker
My one of my life goals is to never make a Thanksgiving dinner. And I've hit 50 without it. It's already passed on to my daughter. I. by for you we We're a big like we love sides.
00:19:20
Speaker
So like Thanksgiving is the day we get all the carbs.
00:19:25
Speaker
ah My husband this past year ah smoked a ham. Nobody in the house likes turkey they like it fresh. But then I end up eating all the leftovers because nobody likes the leftover. So like the size of the turkey we get every year has gotten small smaller and smaller.
00:19:39
Speaker
So this year I got like a turkey breast and made it and Nate smoked a ham. And it was, was like, this is what we're doing from now on.
00:19:49
Speaker
But our only real tradition is Thanksgiving is the day that we decorate for Christmas. Yeah. It's like while everything's cooking. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I literally cannot remember what we did anything. But I know it wasn't traditional.
00:20:01
Speaker
Yeah, I love it. and We love it. We love a Thanksgiving and um and a nice hotel. Yeah, that sounds wonderful. um except Except I'm so cheap, I won't let us order, like go to a restaurant and order the...
00:20:16
Speaker
full meal so i'll be like what they what makes this fun is that we're ordering mac and cheese from the kids yeah it would be nice kfc oh this is fun isn't this fun i you know we've spent actually i do we're usually driving back from places so we have spent money many a thanksgiving um dinner in a mcdonald's yeah i was just gonna say that so interesting which is so interesting to see um the others there and it the couple it's just The couple of Thanksgivings, I couldn't go home.
00:20:45
Speaker
um And my roommate in college, I always, I had the same roommate all through college. um ah She usually worked on Thursdays, like all through college at the same job. She worked Thursday nights. So if i couldn't go home, I would stop and get like a spread of McDonald's
00:21:04
Speaker
and sit in my apartment and eat McDonald's. Yeah. Last year, I think we were driving home and we're driving home from Colorado and we could not find even a McDonald's open.
00:21:15
Speaker
And um one of the people with us was like, Whataburger, Whataburger's whole slogan is that they're open 365 days year. it was, there go. it. was there you go love it But she she talks about this Thanksgiving the way we just kind of did. Like she talks about everybody like one year.
00:21:32
Speaker
ah Everybody like made a dish or did something. And Sherry did the mashed potatoes and was determined to make them lump free. And says Chad's contribution was unique. He decided to make a giant pot of queso.
00:21:46
Speaker
But it solidified into a cheesy brick within minutes of being served. And it was just like ah she said it's like one of the memories she holds on to. It seemed there was not a bad that was she had very positive memories of of Thanksgiving. it It seemed as though.
00:22:01
Speaker
Yeah. And then this is weird. I don't know why this one really struck me. They decide to go to Jodi's house for Thanksgiving. Yeah. but Jodi's still living with them at this point. Yeah. Yeah.
00:22:15
Speaker
know why that kind of felt weird that they would go out. Maybe she needs to water the plants or something. um I thought so too. I kind of thought it was um because they end up at moving to Jody's house. um So it was just kind of a, don't know.
00:22:30
Speaker
Let's go of Thanksgiving at my house. And it was. My house is so much bigger. I don't know. And Sherry immediately yells, no. ah Hard pass. But I love this because an awkward silence as Ruby's indignation revved up like a chainsaw. And she says, did you just say nope?
00:22:49
Speaker
And then Sherry like... Reins back in and was like, unfortunately, I cannot make it. Thank you for the invitation. She's like, she could almost hear. She says, I could almost see the gears turning in Ruby's head as she processed the fact that her eldest daughter was defying her.
00:23:06
Speaker
Error 404. or Obedient daughter not found. And at least from the book, what it says, this is really one of the first times she's outright denied. She's outright denied.
00:23:20
Speaker
stuck to her gut and and became is becoming more independent and saying no when she when she wants to yeah and uh ruby's she's she's like it's four hour drive to jody's i have too much homework i can't make it and then ruby immediately like any manipulator does knows exactly what to say to try to guilt her and it's that your siblings will be disappointed and But Sherry doesn't take the bait. Instead of being guilted by that, she she says, like, didn't say you'd be disappointed, Mom.
00:23:56
Speaker
Like, she owns in on that part of it, um which I think is, like, really emotionally intelligent. And she ended up going to Kevin's parents' house. Which was really sweet. That struck us really sweet. Yeah. Yeah.
00:24:08
Speaker
Yeah, it says they had store-bought snacks and Stouffer's mac and cheese and watched Andy Griffith on the TV. She asked ah Kevin's dad if she can go look at some old photos from the basement.
00:24:20
Speaker
was As he stood up, Grandma called out, don't be down there too long. I'm putting a pie in the microwave. love it. It's just so cute. This makes me wonder, though, it's what was going on with Kevin and his family. Like, it didn't seem like there was a rift there, but it also didn't seem like they had seen him or I think later there's another scene of her with her grandparents. And, like, we do find out, like, they're, like, very much not – they don't know the extent of it anything. I think they say things like, we haven't talked to your dad in a while. Is everything okay? That kind of thing.
00:24:58
Speaker
and wish I knew how – well, it says that they live close by in Ogden. But it sounds also like maybe they didn't see his family as much yeah as they did. rub Like, I don't know. Maybe it just wasn't as close of a relationship with the family that it wouldn't be unusual for him not to check in with them a lot. I don't know. yeah But it did seem just like they were like, something's going on, but we nothing alarming.
00:25:24
Speaker
Just like, it's weird we haven't heard from you. Yeah, it sounds like there's there wasn't necessarily conflict there, but ah my guess is they'd always been closer to Ruby's side of the family. Yeah. And even though that relationship had broken down, it didn't help.
00:25:41
Speaker
into I mean, it didn't it didn't make them any closer to Kevin. Yeah. And my guess is it wasn't Kevin who did not have the relationship. it was It was Ruby who probably discouraged Yeah.
00:25:54
Speaker
And then, you know, he does – her grandfather knows something's off. I don't even want to say something's wrong. It's just, like, they never asked her until this moment, like, why did you come here for Thanksgiving?
00:26:08
Speaker
Like, that is a red flag to them. But they also, like – I don't know. How excited would grandma be if I was just like, grandma, I'm coming to Thanksgiving for and like, for no reason, seemingly. to You know what I mean? Like, it's just it's um they're probably just thrilled to have her. And it's the thing of not wanting to rock the boat too much or push too hard.
00:26:28
Speaker
Um, because she, you know, she straight lies and says, ah yeah, I just really wanted to see you and grandma. Um, and he studied her face for a moment and it says, I held my breath afraid he'd see through my facade. Finally, he nodded, seeming satisfied with my answer.
00:26:44
Speaker
And says, well, you we're happy to have you and you're always welcome and the door's always open. So again, but that adds another thing of of guilt to her that she's now lying to her grandparents. And she chalks it up to not being brave enough to tell to tell him the truth, which I also think is so sad.
00:27:00
Speaker
It's like she's looking for somebody to be able to tell Yeah, but she she does say that what she's grateful for, the title of the it is grateful because she could just be a granddaughter and to enjoying times with her grandparents on a cozy Thanksgiving afternoon.
00:27:17
Speaker
And there's nothing outside of that moment, outside of that house. There's nothing else right now. And so maybe part of it is that, too. Like, nothing this is a moment of peace that she hasn't had in so long.
00:27:30
Speaker
And telling the truth is going to destroy that.
Christmas Tensions and Manipulations
00:27:34
Speaker
Yeah. This is a relationship she doesn't want corrupted by by the truth of the whole matter. um'm always been I've always been wondering why she didn't turn to Ruby's family.
00:27:48
Speaker
Yeah. And I know there was conflict, but since the conflict was largely about the same... issues that sherry's seeing it it just um it that's oh yeah i've always wondered why she didn't go yeah i don't know it's it's the just come like having so many aunts my mom has so many sisters there have definitely been times that i would feel weird going to like my mom's sister for something not obviously not in this relationship but
00:28:22
Speaker
But i don't know. I can see how that could be just like a weird, like dynamic thing or something she didn't even consider. If like, i don't know how, i think they have a closer years. to it Right. How long it had been since they had like a real conversation that wasn't fake.
00:28:40
Speaker
And she was a kid then. Right. So there's a difference. Right. Right. Yeah. i've I've wondered that also. All right. are trying so hard to go through these these chapters faster.
00:28:52
Speaker
And we're really not. We're doing better.
00:28:56
Speaker
Chapter 29, Jingle Hell. So we've learned, we've we've heard a lot about this Christmas. This is the Christmas I think that the kids didn't get their presents, the two youngest kids. Before we even start, I didn't realize Jodi was in the house for this until reading the book.
00:29:12
Speaker
It was just one of those things like the timelines didn't link in my brain until I read the book and was like, Jodi was here for this. This had to be the worst Christmas ever. Yeah. And this is in the Hulu series. This part always makes me laugh. And a couple of times I've watched it that it's just a video of her doing karaoke in the living room. Jodi.
00:29:32
Speaker
It's singing some like, ah like very like hymn like Christmas song. and like everybody. She's into the karaoke, isn't she? Into the karaoke. Karaoke.
00:29:44
Speaker
Ranch. Dairy Queen. Seems to be her things. On paper, I'd hang out with her for those three things. Maybe the ranch, I'd be like, we got to cut that cut back on the ranch.
00:29:57
Speaker
Have you tried Caesar?
00:30:00
Speaker
It's just a little classier. Yeah. Yeah. I may have escaped Thanksgiving with Ruby and Jodi, but I wasn't out of the woods yet. Christmas was just around the corner, which would mean another two whole weeks sleeping on the couch, my mom and Jodi acting like giggling schoolgirls in matching Christmas sweaters, filming their preachy, hateful Connections videos in my bedroom in front of the little mural I'd painted, in between daily Dairy Queen runs. I know this is a minor point, but...
00:30:30
Speaker
Do we think they were actually in matching Christmas sweaters? I 100% do. Also, this was the point that I realized... also this point that i realized So she talked way earlier when she was allowed to paint her room. She did like geometric shapes.
00:30:45
Speaker
And then talking about this, that like that's where she was filming the videos. And I was like, oh, I remember a bunch of videos Ruby did on her own for connections that were in front of that. And I always used to think like, where is she filming? That's so weird. Where is she? Where did she do those videos? And then it was like, oh, OK, it all makes sense now.
00:31:03
Speaker
It makes it darker, but it makes sense. So at this point, though, still has Chad. to lean on just a little bit it seems like so she showed up to the house yeah chad greeted me at the door with a sympathetic look and a whisper hey sis welcome to hell so chad still got some humor hu but uh he's also telling the truth but it also seems like they haven't been talking to each other much it doesn't seem like there's been lot of communication Yeah.
00:31:35
Speaker
She said the house was like just felt even weirder if that was possible. Kevin was sleeping in their bedroom completely by himself. Ruby was completely with Jodi still.
00:31:46
Speaker
um But Ruby, so like everybody else is like melancholy, I feel like is the word like heavy. um That's kind of the vibe that I get. But Ruby was full of Christmas cheer.
00:32:00
Speaker
And she says how excited she is that Sherry's home. And she wanted to take her and the two older sisters and Jodi out for a welcome home girls night.
00:32:13
Speaker
Jodi really wants to feel closer to you, Ruby said. so awkward. v Yeah. So they make plans. They're going to go out to dinner at 7.
00:32:24
Speaker
Sherry, like... don't know. It's probably the the two pulls again. Like, Mom wants to go to dinner with me, but also this feels not right. Yeah. Like, she's got a she's got a gut that can point her in the right direction.
00:32:37
Speaker
Like, there's a little bit of setup going on. Yeah. I think she's always very good at following her instinct. So they set a set time. They're going to go out to dinner at seven o'clock, seven o'clock rolled around and no sign of rope Ruby or Jodi, but I could hear them laughing in my room.
00:32:54
Speaker
So she's hungry because it's dinner time. So she made herself some pasta, assuming that like they weren't going to go and sat down with ah her siblings and they watched order of the Phoenix because they loved watching Harry Potter Potter movies together.
00:33:10
Speaker
An hour later, Ruby and Jodi came downstairs like dressed to the nines and were like, you're not ready. time to go. and I love this too from Sherry. She's getting sassy.
00:33:22
Speaker
Already ate, I said from the couch. My eyes glued to the wizard battles in front of me, her battling on the screen. Excuse me. You committed that you were going to go out with us, Ruby was incandescent with rage. I looked up at her. Well, mom, is it one of the principles of truth being on time?
00:33:41
Speaker
I said coolly. Mic drop. And of course, they twist this. that you If you paid attention, you know that flexibility is important.
00:33:55
Speaker
Which is why I went ahead made my own dinner tonight. Very flexible.
00:34:00
Speaker
sober but then they go for the jugular again the thing that's gonna hurt is you're gonna be a bad wife good luck finding a man the old fallback and she's using she says my apparent unmarriage ability like a weapon and she's just like looking at her dad and is like who are you talking to me about marriage
00:34:23
Speaker
yeah And then I, you know, she didn't say, maybe she said it. I don't know. But I would be like, I mean, i cooked dinner. Like, doesn't that make me? I going say. Yeah, right? Yeah, it says any, like, flicker of rebellion makes her bad material, bad wife material.
00:34:39
Speaker
Well, and I think any flicker of rebellion is exactly what they're trying to get under control because they are not in a state. It's anything other than.
00:34:52
Speaker
It's not truth. There's no rebellion in truth. Yeah. In their truth. Yeah. And i I think already Sherry recognizes that truth. Their truth changes to what they need it to be.
00:35:03
Speaker
So Ruby and Jodi go to their fancy dinner together and Sherry watches a movie with her siblings. She waited up for them. said they were out until almost midnight.
00:35:15
Speaker
And when they walked in, Ruby and Jodi were sobbing uncontrollably. And Sherry says, genuinely alarmed. And Jodi goes on to say that your fight with your mother, it reminded me of my daughter. She left me.
00:35:30
Speaker
There's no greater pain than being ah abandoned, Sherry. You can't do that to Ruby. She loves you more than anything in the whole world. Her words found their mark. They just find, that's what they do. They find what will work to shame or to guilt a person.
00:35:49
Speaker
What surprises me though is this is the first time I've heard of Jodi speaking yeah of any of her children. And then in there, admitting her relationship with her,
00:36:02
Speaker
Was a failure. Now, she definitely is blaming that on her daughter, not on herself. But yeah, there there was a failure in her in her existence, I guess.
00:36:15
Speaker
um So this works. And Sherry ends up apologizing, telling her she'd never talk to her like that again. And then it says they engulfed me in a suffocating embrace.
00:36:28
Speaker
we're so glad you're home, Sherry, Ruby whispered. And I noticed how wrong it felt being held by both of them. And i I, if she, just if Ruby just said, I'm so glad you're home, like that little word change, I think would have made such a difference to Sherry.
00:36:45
Speaker
yeah But we isn't real. its It's not true. But if Ruby genuinely said, I'm so glad you're home. Without camera, without, you know. And I had written down.
00:36:58
Speaker
Jodi was inserting um herself into what should have been a normal mother-daughter moment. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Because if this were normal, teenage girls and their mothers fight and things like this happen. and And I have been guilty of saying horrible things to my mother when I was a teenager and sobbing uncontrollably ah apologizing.
00:37:19
Speaker
But everything that should be a normal experience is like tainted bye this woman's influence this is like having your mom's or your mom's new boyfriend or yeah stepdad or whatever yeah like being the jumping in on a moment when you read the room no Yeah.
00:37:40
Speaker
Chapter 30. Children are not entitled to a magical childhood. A few days before Christmas, the adults gathered us children in the living room. Ruby and Jodi, addressing the four oldest of us, so relegated my two youngest siblings to a corner.
00:37:57
Speaker
We're making you aware of something, Ruby began, her tone unnervingly calm. Your youngest siblings won't be receiving any presents this year. So again, it's like ah normal moment of a family meeting.
00:38:11
Speaker
Like take away like relegating the younger kids to a different spot, but like a family meeting that in their family dynamic, it should be a mother and father leading. I like there's no mention of Kevin even being.
00:38:26
Speaker
It says the adults gathered us, but Ruby and Jodi addressed them. Yeah, and we and they so go on to say, um we're teaching them not to be selfish and entitled, Jodi added. Her face, a mask of self-righteousness.
00:38:39
Speaker
My father, ever the silent supporter, nodded along. So my question here is, what were the children doing wrong? i mean, I know what the answer is, probably, is they were being children.
00:38:52
Speaker
But ah they never really... Address what which specific behaviors that they they are doing that that are they are being punished for.
00:39:04
Speaker
Yeah. And i I so I think that the middle two girls were old enough to kind of play the game or not even play the game, but recognize what to do to stay under the radar.
00:39:16
Speaker
It was like definitely a survival thing. um But I think of the six kids, those two middle girls were possibly even more brainwashed than Chad or at the equivalent at least.
00:39:29
Speaker
But they I don't think they ever had the opportunity to step out of line so much. They were old enough to be like, oh, I'm not doing that. Kids are kids. Like they're there little and, um you know, you learn how to control yourself, like self-control as you grow up.
00:39:46
Speaker
And um they probably were like, i don't know, expecting to be fed.
00:39:54
Speaker
I don't know. But they always say entitled. They were entitled. They felt entitled. It's almost like they were they felt entitled to their parents to her their mother's love, their parents' love. And that the kids yeah realistically would come, what I think Jodi sees is that the kids, little kids are going be the the ones who come between her relationships.
00:40:13
Speaker
And Ruby's because she's still, because you share a different type of love towards your littlest, I think. Yeah, there's a different dynamic of the age groups, right? Like the age and And every age group, the pair of kids in those age groups, like there's different relationships in each of them. Like my relationship with my 14 year old is very different than my relationship with my nine year old. And it's just the stages of life.
00:40:40
Speaker
And I would say of my three children, my nine year old is the most difficult at this stage. And. i like I feel like it's that. like I don't know. My 13 and 14-year-olds are becoming more aware of how their behavior can impact the house or if they've done something wrong. they it like there They know to apologize and what to do to repair My nine-year-old's still learning that. And because she's the youngest and she's younger and needs time to learn those things. And that's what kids do is they learn how to be good people.
00:41:20
Speaker
And there's, you have to learn that. It's not something that comes naturally. And if if that's the stage of life that the two youngest are at.
00:41:32
Speaker
Well, and i don know they they need to be taken care of at a different level. They need to be. They need more of that maternal love. And I think Jodi wanted that.
00:41:43
Speaker
Jodi wanted that from Ruby. She she wanted, yeah you know, early in a relationship when you are in that ah honeymoon stage, you do. You like really want to take care of a person and and didn't want to share that with With her needing to still take care of the kids. Yeah.
00:41:59
Speaker
And I also think the youngest two are the most, I guess, moldable. I think that Ruby probably felt like Sherry's a lost cause. Chat she's actually made yeah a fair amount of progress with as far Right. And i think I think that. I think Chad's a win for her. So she saw like the tough love stuff and and holding him accountable and the things Jodi did worked for Chad.
00:42:23
Speaker
um And then I think the two middle girls just kind of being – I don't know what they believed, but being compliant at the very least, not being a problem for Ruby. And then looking at the two youngest and being like, we're going to nip it in the bud now.
00:42:37
Speaker
We're not letting you get to the Chad point. The two middle girls, they're compliant. We're getting you there now before it becomes a problem. Whereas Jodi was like, yeah, we're going to nip this in the bud because they don't shouldn't need to be taken care of anymore.
00:42:49
Speaker
The four middle children do have a little bit of level of independence and an ability to care for themselves and ability to, ah be outside the home. The two littlest don't.
00:43:01
Speaker
Nope. mean, so they're reliant, they're fully reliant on their parents for everything. Yeah. Including yeah. The maternal love. so Yeah. So furthermore, the kids, the youngest kids can't even speak to them without asking permission. And if they interrupt, they have to be reprimanded.
00:43:22
Speaker
So Jodi is forcing the ah older siblings to punish the younger two. Sherry stands up and says, well, if they're not getting presents, none of us should. For her.
00:43:32
Speaker
Yeah. And Jodi weaponizes it, calling it her discomfort. And i I think of it the way that word discomfort when Ruby was talking about the youngest not having a lunch.
00:43:43
Speaker
And she says, the teacher is uncomfortable. mu And the way she says uncomfortable. And it's not about her child suffering. It's about the teacher suffering.
00:43:54
Speaker
Isn't her responsibility. It's same thing. It's like Sherry's discomfort in this is about Sherry, not about the kids. Yep. Yeah. Agreed. So it's, you know, she kind of gets put in her place and and kind of has to back down because there's not really a choice.
00:44:10
Speaker
So Christmas morning comes... Pass out gifts and now everyone open up your presents. And in doing so, give the young ones the gift of this precious, beautiful lesson that will serve them for years to come.
00:44:26
Speaker
Crowed movie. I love Crowed. This is the second time she sees it. I love it. Yeah. It's just like... And then Ruby and Jodi are trying to, or Ruby rather, is trying to make this like, this is joyful. This is Christmas. Everyone be happy.
00:44:41
Speaker
And so they did, like, the kids, the youngest two watched silently. And she said, when the flurry of torn paper settled, Jodi's saccharine voice cut through the air.
00:44:52
Speaker
Clean this up, she ordered them. And I think the fact that they sat there silently, they are becoming brainwashed. Yeah. They're buying into it because they have no choice.
00:45:05
Speaker
Yeah. They're impressionable and they're like impressionable at this age. yeah Yeah, there's there's that. And there's also kids learn survival tactics really quickly. i just, ah another podcast was talking about a video I've seen of, it was like a study and there's a woman and a kid sitting at a table and the kid, like the woman is like, okay, can you put this like ball into this cup?
00:45:30
Speaker
Like something very simple like that. And she puts it in the cup and the woman praises her. and then another woman comes in and she's like not warm, this other woman. and the first woman who is initially sitting with the kid she then puts the ball into the cup the second woman who came in is like you're so stupid why would you do that to the to the adult that's so stupid of you you don't put a ball in a cup that's so dumb you're worth like just tears her apart so that mean woman gets up and leaves and then the woman who just got kind of reprimanded
00:46:07
Speaker
says to the kid okay can you put the ball in the cup and the kids like backs away and is like not gonna do it no and so it's even though the child wasn't the one who got spoken to in a certain way picked up on what was happening and is like i'm not doing that and it's like the survival instinct kicks kicked in in seconds so it doesn't take long especially at that or at their age yeah And they then, you know, Jodi even starts, even says, children are not entitled to a magical childhood.
00:46:42
Speaker
She could each word dripping with poisonous sweetness. You just can't expect love and presence. Many have none at all. And interesting that love gets ah huh thrown in there along with presence. Yeah.
00:46:58
Speaker
Yep. I think they are not the same. Yeah. I don't want my kids to be entitled. I don't want them to expect things that they don't necessarily earn or things like that. Like, but I had them. And part of that is I love them. yeah I think love is. That's not an expectation. That is a promise guarantee that they get because they are my children and I chose to have them. They get the love. It's not, they're not entitled to my love. They just have it.
00:47:25
Speaker
Or I guess different. They are entitled to my love. Yeah. They're not entitled to a new iPhone. True. And I think maybe this leads back to Jodi's childhood. um Or maybe as a direct consequence of Jodi's childhood.
00:47:38
Speaker
Maybe both of those things are things she did not receive. And so... Yeah, that because we know. Yeah, we do know she, you know, is a very almost like legalistic household. That good work was put ahead of anything else. That that working hard determined how much love you got.
Sherry's Protector Role and Derek's Control
00:47:56
Speaker
So Sherry's in a rage. And ah we talked about this story then that. Came from Ruby's family of the widow of Nauvoo. says, the voice of the widow of Nauvoo echoed in my mind.
00:48:10
Speaker
Burn it all down, Sherry. I knew I wanted to somehow. I'd always felt an invisible protector badge pinned to my soul, a responsibility I tried desperately to fulfill. But how could I be their safe haven when I was drowning in the same storm?
00:48:24
Speaker
Great point. Great insights. There's yeah, there's there's an element of if I burn it down, the people I'm supposed to protect are going to get burned down with it. And again, it's not gone so far that you don't think it still could be salvaged and brought back.
00:48:40
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I think at this point. but without We know it happens. But in that moment, you know, there may be that feeling of, you know, this is something weird. Families go through this, but we'll go through it. We'll we'll make it through. Yeah. There was no way, even if she wasn't hopeful that things would get back, even if she was like, this is our life now. Nothing's going to change. There's still no way of predicting where it went.
00:49:03
Speaker
Oh. It's not even, i think it's unimaginable. No, no. So after New Year's, she says, I fled back to college. My survivor's guilt, a lead weight on my chest, but fled like she got out of there as soon as that dorm opened.
00:49:17
Speaker
So she was, you know, having that guilty feeling, she says, for about a week until she got a text from her dad saying Jodi's feeling better. She's moving back to Ivan's. At this point, Ruby wasn't going with her. said she's sad she's leaving, but Jodi said she's ready to go home.
00:49:33
Speaker
I kind of wonder what's going on behind the scenes so at that point. Yeah. Yeah. It's so, I, yeah, I don't know. Jodi's like just this manipulator. She's a master manipulator. Yeah. Maybe, maybe she got her, ah she got her claws in as far as she thought she could and knew that the next step was going to be getting Ruby, but getting rid of Kevin and then getting Ruby to her.
00:49:54
Speaker
to her home getting her away from this yes yeah i think so too so she said um you know sherry's like running through all of these scenarios and is like well jody's gone so that leaves the kids who are at home to ah fill the void for Ruby, which isn't good, which isn't a good thing. A lot of times that could be a good thing. Like now she can focus on the kids. It's like, no, now her focus will be the kids. and But her solace is that with Kevin there to watch the little ones, maybe Ruby would spend more time in Ivan's with Jodi.
00:50:29
Speaker
And give everyone some crucial breathing room. So if that's the scenario, that's that's great. People with distance can maybe recognize what's happening. um she would She said she would go home more often Ruby wasn't there.
00:50:43
Speaker
And being home means she could get away from Derek for a while, who's still this looming presence, always there. Yeah, we hadn't heard about him for a little bit. yeah Kind of died down, but can't forget that he is always there.
00:50:55
Speaker
Yep. So because with Derek, things had escalated physically. He said he was training me for marriage, showing me the things i would need to do in order to please my future husband.
00:51:10
Speaker
Never all the way, he insisted, as if that boundary made the actions noble. Can't believe how much marriage is used to manipulate yeah her.
00:51:22
Speaker
Yep. from multiple From all sides. Yep. It's the the kind of patriarchy element of, I was going to say Mormonism, but really a lot of religions. She said she always wanted to be a ah wife and mother at the beginning, but it's kind of what's ingrained in a lot of girls that your role is to be a wife and mother and that's it.
00:51:44
Speaker
Which is so funny that she's in college. And it's, it's, you know, you could still be, a out obviously like she could still be a a wife and mother and work and and have a degree and things like that. But it's like, yeah, you have to be the submissive, good Mormon wife.
00:51:59
Speaker
And I think as she said with Ruby, i think part of being in college is, um is her chance to find that. That's where she's supposed, she's used to, supposed to use that time to find this perfect husband.
00:52:13
Speaker
Yeah. And I also wonder, with so much pressure on it and and it be being used over her head so much, is it backfiring? Is part of her saying, hey, I don't need a husband. Is it making the thought of marriage somewhat uncomfortable?
00:52:27
Speaker
I because they're they're setting her up always with you're going to disappoint. You're going to disappoint. I do think she's engaged now. I know. oh I mean, yes. i Yes. I think but I think she got through it, but which I'm glad.
00:52:40
Speaker
Hopefully on her turn. She's not being given the room to like Derek is suffocating. She's not being given the room to date or even like talk to somebody that's not Derek. Yeah. I mean this is so gross. yeah Your husband is going to, this is something Derek says, your husband is going to be so disappointed on your wedding night if you are uncomfortable being touched like this.
00:53:03
Speaker
See how you flinch when I do that? You don't want to do that in front of your husband, do you? It's so gross. It's so gross. And then Sherry even says, no, you're right.
00:53:16
Speaker
Saying, convincing herself that this was in a way some kind of exposure therapy. Yeah. But the now with with this, the depression she experienced for so long that had kind of been a bit managed, even with these crazy things happening, started creeping back in She said she didn't care about anything else other than getting her homework done and making sure Derek wasn't upset with her. His texts were coming in as in a relentless stream every 15 minutes like clockwork. Yeah. um He convinces her to share her location so he knows
00:53:50
Speaker
where she is all the time because he knows she's all alone. Like he really honed in on this dysfunctional family life. And like, the thing is he doesn't even know how dysfunctional it is. i feel like, I feel like she's confiding in him with stuff, but I think similar to kind of her grandparents, she's probably not saying everything.
00:54:09
Speaker
And even like the little scraps of it, he's like, I'm honing in on this dysfunction. Yeah. I was going to say he's taking advantage of the scraps that he, he pulls out it. Yeah. Yeah.
00:54:19
Speaker
In retrospect, I think it's so easy to see what was going on. Yeah. But in the moment, i think she was a pretty normal young person um struggling.
00:54:30
Speaker
Yeah. And it would be easily sucked in in this case. Yeah. um She tells herself that he's the only protection she has and that without him, she really would be all alone. Yeah.
00:54:43
Speaker
says, cutting ties with Derek meant facing a world where I truly had no allies. And so I remained in limbo, caught between revulsion and desperate need, unable to break free.
00:54:55
Speaker
So he's like texting constantly. is he He knows where she is all the time. He wants to know who she's talking to. and over and over, she started drafting texts. She'd type out a text trying to end it. And then she would she would delete it.
00:55:09
Speaker
His texts were definitely taking on a new tone. Filled with longing and desire. ah huh It is great. Yeah. So then I think she she says, she typed, Derek, I'm sorry, but I can't do this anymore. I'm not your doll.
00:55:23
Speaker
I'm not your pet, your play thing, your anything. I'm my own person. So then I deleted all every word. It was easier to stay silent and play along than to say something that would upset him.
00:55:35
Speaker
Yeah. All right. We're going to stop here. um looks like we're going to have a third section of part four, but there's just so much. And this is a long section. I think this is longest section of the book, but just so much is happening.
Conclusion and Future Plans
00:55:49
Speaker
So we're going to stop here. We'll come back with part three of part four. and this is, a yeah, this is our first time doing this. So we get a little over ambitious on how much we think we can do.
00:56:02
Speaker
so many pages of notes that now I'm realizing maybe for our next book, I should cut back. had to figure it out. All right. Well, we will see you guys next time. Thanks for joining us again. Bye.