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201: Crimes in Disguise
36 Plays22 hours ago
Hey cryptic cuties! Hope you are all enjoying the fall and spooky season as much as we are. This week we thought we would take a look at 2 cases involving disguises or costumes (in honour of halloween of course).
First up, Kelsey shares the details of the murder of Marlene Warren, who was shot on her doorstep by a creepy clown, and whose identity would take decades to confirm.
Alanna lightens the mood with the life and crimes of William Sutton, known as "Slick Willie" or "Willie the Actor", a man who frequently wore disguises during his 40 year career.
If you have any spooky stories you would like us to read next ep, please send them to us through any of our socials or by e mail!
Darkcast spotlight is The Final Trace!
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Transcript
Introduction and Host Banter
00:00:01
Speaker
Darkcast Network, indie pods with a dark side.
00:00:26
Speaker
Welcome to Castles and Cryptids, where the castles are haunted and the cryptids are cryptic as fuck. And I'm Alanna. And I'm Kelsey. And I don't know if anyone can hear Pat droning on in the background, but if you like can, I can hear my partner downstairs. Okay, I really thought it sounded loud for a minute.
00:00:46
Speaker
Okay. he a They were watching The Simpsons. So, welcome to episode 201 to a one That is a number that we made to. Back to our regular scheduled programming. oh Back to basics.
00:01:05
Speaker
No. yeah Never. We're never basic. Celebration episode? I don't know. I enjoyed it. Even editing it back, it was really fun. and I was laughing at myself, being so stupid and going, it's a Kelsey!
00:01:21
Speaker
It's a Kelsey cryptid! you Oh, yeah. okay well oh it was great it was great and we hope you all did the cryptid quiz with us and had fun doing that even though sometimes they're like the most obscure cryptids and you're like well ah you know yeah but yeah it was good i liked it And we'll keep doing more if you guys keep coming back.
Halloween Stories and Experiences
00:01:54
Speaker
It's spooky season. This one comes out on the 17th. We're well into it. And that means that after that, the 31st is Halloween!
00:02:11
Speaker
Save me!
00:02:14
Speaker
save me Take me away. so happy because I, at work this year, ah last two years, I think I ended up closing at work on Halloween night.
00:02:26
Speaker
And before that, I had gotten sick. ah Yeah. ah About this time of year. So i had bought candy, but ended up being way too sick. And...
00:02:39
Speaker
Like put a note on the door being like, I'm so sorry. I'm super sick. I don't want to hand out candy. Like, so sorry. um And then I, so I haven't had. Like take your own candy?
00:02:52
Speaker
I didn't even want to do that because I was so, so sick. And like nobody could tell me what I had. Like. That makes sense. Not everybody does. i have It was like the sickest I have ever been in my life.
00:03:07
Speaker
awesome that's great i forgot yeah it was when i lost yeah when i lost my hearing and my eye was giving me problems and your voice was gone yeah my voice was gone i had muscle aches that was a great time for everyone i was like oh no the podcast and poor kelsey's time it took like I don't know, probably at least three months after for my hearing to finally go back to normal.
00:03:40
Speaker
And ever since then, anytime I get even slightly plugged up in my nose, my ears crackle now.
00:03:48
Speaker
And they never did before in my life. But they're constantly filled up with fluid and then it like affects my hearing and then I... Oh no. kind I don't really get vertigo at least from it, but I've heard like that can happen too.
00:04:02
Speaker
but Yeah, it's been like three years and I'm still fucked up over it. Anytime I get a little bit sick, it seems to hit my ears and my hearing really bad. Like long COVID or something.
00:04:15
Speaker
just That's what I feel like. yeah But I tested i tested for COVID because I had at-home kids. And then i at first thought I had strep throat and they tested me for strep throat and told me it wasn't that either.
00:04:32
Speaker
But they don't know what it was. But the doctor I did see told me it was some sort of, like, very serious virus. But they couldn't do enough tests to, like, figure out what it was.
00:04:45
Speaker
You're like, great. Thanks. Thanks a lot. Yeah, I guess I'll never know. um never know. One day Maybe if you haven't known. I remember...
00:04:59
Speaker
I remember I was off work for three weeks, which is crazy to me. I've never been off work for three weeks unless or even two weeks unless I'm on a vacation.
00:05:10
Speaker
Exactly. Who could afford to? Yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah. It's pretty brutal. Yeah. yeah Yeah, what's ah what but what's been going on with you lately?
00:05:25
Speaker
At least that's only rearing its head every time you get sick.
00:05:33
Speaker
know.
00:05:35
Speaker
Not much lately. a ah worked on a list of spooky movies I'm going to try and watch this year. ah Some older like Vincent Price ones that just got added to... Was it Prime? and Prime or Disney Plus?
00:05:53
Speaker
I think it was Prime. Just added a bunch of them and I was like, ooh, this looks so fun. That would track for this time of year. i kind of did that, but with some books, like horror books that came out in 2025.
00:06:04
Speaker
was like, ooh, okay. Got some from the library. yeah that'll be good Stephen King one yeah yeah forgot all about like his so I read his Mr. Mercedes series and then they like there was a spin-off one about the Holly character and I was like oh shit I forgot all about those books I love Holly Gibney and I was like oh gotta to get that from the library yeah um cool cool cool yeah there's been like a lot of good movies this year
00:06:40
Speaker
So that's nice. It's been a good year for horror. Yeah, it has.
Personal Updates and Current Events
00:06:47
Speaker
um We should be grateful. um I was at my hairdressers today and.
00:06:53
Speaker
She was like telling me because we haven't seen her together like months. was like, I think it was like December last time I was there. Oh, geez. That is a long time. ah Yeah. Yeah. It's I don't love to go that long. My hair is like twice as long as it was when I last saw I look, I'm like, oh, my God, you guys all have new hair colors. like And then she was telling me that I was like, oh, yeah. Like, you know, she's like, how are things? You know, are things like better? I know, like, you know, it wasn't.
00:07:20
Speaker
maybe you were in the greatest spirits last time or whatever. I'm like, oh yeah, it's like, it's been a bit of a rough year, but it's starting to even out and getting like, and she's like, oh yeah, because it's the year of the snake. And it's like, I was born in the year of the snake. She's like, so it was tough for me, but it's tough for everybody. It's like it's one of those like,
00:07:37
Speaker
you know, that transitional, like kind of like going through it kind of things. Um, and she's like, but you'll, you'll start to do better now. And it's like, yeah it's starting to come your way. And I'm like, you're right.
00:07:50
Speaker
It That feels really good. And i was just like, it's having fun. I love talking about like woo woo stuff with her, with her and, and, uh, and stuff like that. And then I was like, we're like talking about different, um,
00:08:03
Speaker
zodiac signs because there's like you know that's the chinese one there's also like their mayan has an astrological zodiac as well they do yeah and and anyway whatever you can like look up a whole bunch of things that that'll be like you're a snake you're wind you're your symbol is storm and just think they're fun um But yeah, hopefully everybody's like on the upswing as this year starts to wind down. Yeah. i hope that for everyone.
00:08:34
Speaker
feel like this has been a pretty shitty year for like just most people. so yeah Like, obviously we don't get into much stuff about current events and stuff because it's nice to be a reprieve from some of those things. But like, yeah, obviously there's really shitty stuff going on that like,
00:08:54
Speaker
does need to be talked about and people are always happy like sometimes when people have a bit of a platform and they say stuff so it's like yeah fuck haters that's what I'll say what did oh there was some girl and she like ended her um like Emmy speech this like actress I can't remember it was on Reddit so i was just like scrolling past in it but she was just like fuck ice free Palestine I'm out or something like that. I'm just like, Oh, that was an epic closer. yeah So I thought that was great.
00:09:29
Speaker
Um, but yeah, yeah. Hopefully everybody's doing better. I'm fine. Don't worry. I'm fine. I'm just like
00:09:38
Speaker
pent up, um, energy from different stresses, but the full moon is over. I'm on vacation now. Woo. Yeah. And, uh,
00:09:51
Speaker
yeah Heather says everything's going to my way so I'm just going to go with that. That sounds good. Yeah. And then she was like casually like oh I got married it' this year. was like oh my god.
00:10:05
Speaker
It has been a fucking year. I'm not seeing you so that's always nice. Anyway.
00:10:13
Speaker
But now we're going to talk about some crime.
True Crime: Murder of Marlene Warren
00:10:17
Speaker
and Yeah. On a not lighter note. Oh, it's still super light out here because we're recording at like four in the afternoon.
00:10:25
Speaker
That's probably why it's... Yeah. It just perked up a little. I was really having that like, so tired this afternoon. Like, what am I doing? am I going to fall asleep? I think it after my London fog wore off and you have that like sugar crash.
00:10:43
Speaker
But... i'm I'm drinking a dirty chai right now. chai with espresso. So... That would keep me somewhat awake. Dirty girl. Yeah. They sell it at Superstore. It's like mixed in the tea bag. I don't know how much espresso it has.
00:11:00
Speaker
I don't really ah normally feel different, but.
00:11:05
Speaker
I just don't enjoy a chai from time to time. I used to hit that so hard every time I went to the Starbucks that I kind of like chied myself out. But I've got some crystals downstairs that I use sometimes.
00:11:18
Speaker
Crystals. The powder. My mom sent me some that's in powder form, I mean. jesus Oh, like an instant? Those are nice. It's not bad. it came with a cute little wooden spoon. um But I'm just drinking Gatorade.
00:11:36
Speaker
That's so weird. I don't think you've ever drank Gatorade before. not that i Not that you ever mentioned to me. Well, Pat was teasing me in the car that I can't record without drinking and I like I know shut up
00:11:54
Speaker
he's excuse used to go pick up drinks I'm like whatever just like I'm a pro athlete now drinking gatorade was like I don't plan to get drunk I do have to fly all day tomorrow basically so yeah gotta be tip top man
00:12:18
Speaker
And they feed you free drinks on port-of-lights anyway. If you want to get little tipsy. Anyway, so what are you telling me about today?
00:12:33
Speaker
have the case, or it's a murder. ah
00:12:42
Speaker
Straight up, yeah, not bearing the lead. Yeah. No, I actually didn't even start with background this time. I'm like, I'm going to get straight into what happened and then we'll we'll go back to the background right after.
00:12:57
Speaker
I'll mix it up a little bit. It's almost like a Mr. Ballen type approach. Yeah, I like that. I like a little different storytelling style. or It's really hard to do.
00:13:10
Speaker
but i was like, oh my gosh. Yeah. It hurts my brain sometimes. I want to do my notes in chronological order because I just it easier. I always hear But yeah, then, ah yeah.
00:13:22
Speaker
I'll go to but one source and then you go to the other source and then then then when I'm typing it all up, then you're trying to splice it all together. Well, where did that go? Oh no! Very confusing. on so hopefully this makes sense. I didn't really like reread through it all. ah Nice.
00:13:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:41
Speaker
yeah That's okay. I'll ask questions. We'll get through it together. We're here for each other. This is murder of Marlene Warren. Marlene, okay.
00:13:55
Speaker
Yeah, Marlene Warren. We watched The New Conjuring, too, by the way. Okay, I'm done. That's all have to say. have seen it. That's pretty good. So this ah was started on Saturday, May 26, 1990 in Wellington, Florida, when 40-year-old Marlene is at home with her adult son, either went by like... ship so Yeah, they're just like having a nice breakfast Saturday morning together. his His name either goes by Joe or Joey.
00:14:35
Speaker
depending on like the source I was reading. Okay. You're enjoying their nice, nice. Yeah. So this morning breakfast, when the doorbell rings, she gets up and goes to the door because ah Joey had actually broken his leg.
00:14:55
Speaker
So he had like a cast. um So he wasn't getting around very well. so when the doorbell rings, she's like, oh, I'm going to go grab that and opens it. And there's an unusual sight.
00:15:08
Speaker
and that There's a clown that's standing on her doorstep. And they're holding flowers and balloons. Okay.
00:15:19
Speaker
Gotta love a clown on your doorstep.
00:15:25
Speaker
Uh, Marlene, I guess, remarked how pretty and how nice, um, like, the flowers and balloon looked before she was shot, uh, point blank in the face by the clown.
00:15:38
Speaker
Okay. Damn. That was quick. Right? Like, just out of nowhere. Hopefully quick and...
00:15:52
Speaker
possibly painless. You know what I mean? as I hope so. Yeah. yeah
00:15:59
Speaker
The clown, I guess, was wearing an upright orange wig, this big fake red nose, and had a painted on like happy face. And ah Joey, a Marlene's son, he like heard what happened.
00:16:15
Speaker
He's 21 years old, and he rushed as fast as he could to his mom's side. um She had collapsed in the doorway of the house and you the clown, I guess, was still standing there when he like came to her side.
00:16:29
Speaker
So he like looked at the clown and was like, look, made eye contact with it and was like kind of staring them down and noted that their eyes were like brown and stuff. But with like the costume on and the makeup, he couldn't really make out facial features or recognize the person or anything like that. Yeah. I'm not sure how elaborate the makeup was, um but... So not like i couldn't really full mask? Like not like a face mask?
00:17:02
Speaker
No, it was with face paint. Okay. um Yeah, so he... He's there at his mom's side now and the clown, I guess, just turned and just like walked slowly away, got into a white Chrysler LeBaron that had been parked.
00:17:23
Speaker
It might have even been in their driveway or something, nothing really said, but it didn't have any license plate on it. And the clown got into that vehicle and drove away. the hell?
00:17:35
Speaker
Right? That'd be so fucking creepy though. like Right? Like i think back a few years ago when they were talking about like the killer clowns or whatever that kept popping up and that ended up kind of just being like was it like a viral hoax or something?
00:17:52
Speaker
but Something like that. portion Clowns have been getting consistently creepier over time. Yeah. Like ugh. I remember yeah they've like even asked children and if they should you know, cause they want to know, Oh, should we keep painting them in like children's hospitals? All the kids are like no, we don't like them.
00:18:11
Speaker
It's like, who is it for? Just do like cute. Just stick to cute animals and stuff. You never go wrong with cute little animals, little forest free animals, cats and dogs.
00:18:24
Speaker
like Exactly.
00:18:27
Speaker
Uh, yeah. So Marlene was put on life support, um, like rushed to the hospital, put on life support.
00:18:35
Speaker
and I guess died like two days later in hospital. um I'm sure she was probably unconscious for like that whole time because being shot in the face. Yeah. Probably pretty traumatic, but I don't have the exact details on that.
00:18:53
Speaker
Either way, it's completely horrific. Right? Yeah. ah so getting of like... into background of like What was going Yeah, who, what, where, why? Yeah.
00:19:10
Speaker
<unk> We'll try and answer those. so Marlene, in one of the sources, was described as a Midwestern girl ah who had grown up on her grandfather's farm.
00:19:23
Speaker
And at the by the age of 20, she was a single mother. She had two sons, Joe jo Joey and John. And when she...
00:19:35
Speaker
when they were born and everything and she was 20, she had met 18 year old Michael Warren and they had pretty quickly fallen in love, ah getting married just a few years later.
00:19:49
Speaker
and for everything that anybody could see, Michael reportedly cared for Joey and John as if they were his own sons. And they were pretty young when this was all happening. Joey was only like three at the time.
00:20:05
Speaker
I guess, that they got married. So, like, what really was the, um, his father figure and everything growing up. And... Okay.
00:20:18
Speaker
Uh, life went good for the next few years until 1988 when their son, John, suddenly died in a car accident. Uh, I don't know exactly how old he would have been,
00:20:32
Speaker
but Obviously, it would never prepare you. Yeah, nothing would ever prepare you for, like, losing one of your kids or anything like that. Yeah, any family member, any close family member. Yeah.
00:20:46
Speaker
Suddenly. oh yeah Wow. um And this obviously caused um Michael and Marlene to drift apart. Yeah.
00:20:58
Speaker
It says every movie ever. Like, yeah. Well, it's just, and it's cause it's based in truth. I mean, it's, and obviously the people can stay together, but even like, even miscarriages, sorry if that's yeah triggering for anybody, but like, it's, it's triggering for anybody. i would say. i think it's hard because you can, you can like grieve in so many different ways. And if, you know,
00:21:24
Speaker
you can't understand how like the other person's grieving or it's not following how you're grieving. It can, I'm sure that would be really hard to work through.
00:21:35
Speaker
Yeah. Creates a divide. Like, yeah. Chinks away at you. I'm sure.
00:21:43
Speaker
Okay. okay So this is rough already. Yeah. Um, Michael, ah so I guess the couple managed or had a car lot that they owned called Bargain Motors.
00:22:00
Speaker
And i guess Michael was kind of in charge of managing that. While Marlene was more looking after the couple's rental properties. think something said they had three, two or three rental properties.
00:22:16
Speaker
um And altogether they would have been worth about a million dollars at the time. like in the 1990s, like they were pretty well off. They were like really good.
00:22:27
Speaker
um Yeah. Nothing like having some mostly passive income that you just get to collect. and Yeah. Yeah. Pretty cool. um It was reported that after John's death, Michael had kind of put more of himself or threw himself into the car lot.
00:22:45
Speaker
to help keep his mind occupied. So that probably caused them to do part more.
00:22:54
Speaker
Yeah. And at this point they had been, yeah, at this point they had been married for 20 years and they were described as well off. um They were living in a very nice community. It was actually an exclusive community called Arrow Club, which this sounds wild to me um this aero club community had an airstrip nearby that the people living there used to land their personal aircraft and that like I guess they're implying most of the houses had like air hangers in people's backyards oh yes I've heard of that kind of community it's it does seem
00:23:37
Speaker
Very eccentric from the outside looking in They were living in one of those, like, very well off, doing great for themselves. but obviously, like, with the loss of the son John and everything, it would be really hard, I think, for anybody. Mm-hmm.
00:23:56
Speaker
So that's... couldn't do remote. Yeah. i guess they're not really remote. But i was like, it's, like, weird. It's like living on a houseboat or something or somewhere where there's no roads. Like... different yeah i don't really know exactly why they had an aircraft or if they themselves even had one or if it was just their neighbors that kind of did but uh yeah it seems like it's like places where people gather where yeah they're we're all plane enthusiasts so we'll have a yeah you know airstrip here and everybody's got their own little plane parked at home i'm like
00:24:35
Speaker
Okay. but Back in the 90s, though, is what threw me off. I was like, that's something I had expect nowadays. But like in the 90s, were we really doing this? ah Wow. Yeah. Crazy.
00:24:49
Speaker
a So that's kind of all the background I could really find about like their family situation going on. um So getting back into after the Marlene shooting, ah police kind of cordoned off.
00:25:03
Speaker
the scene and they were trying to gather all the evidence they could one of the things they figure out is that one of the balloons obviously they investigate like the balloons that she was given by the clown because those were right i kept seeing pictures of them at like kind of like an eating nook or like kind of like bar top area in the kitchen from the crime scene photos. But I, so I don't know if they had taken them and put them there. And then she went back to the front door before she was shot or what.
00:25:38
Speaker
Don't really know how they ended up so far in the house, but one of the balloons was heart shaped. Okay. Sorry. One of the balloons was heart shaped and said, you're the greatest, which I think is mean.
00:25:54
Speaker
Yeah. Nothing more sinister than clowns and balloons. Right? Clown coming to kill you, giving you a balloon that says you're the greatest. Was it red?
00:26:05
Speaker
Was it a red balloon? think so. I think it was. It was heart-shaped, so... so I'll only take 99 red balloons. That's the only way i will accept red balloons.
00:26:19
Speaker
ah Weirdly, I also have no explanation for this. The other balloon she had been given was one that had Snow White and the Seven Dwarves on it. Oh. So, like, those are the balloons you picked, I guess.
00:26:35
Speaker
Just weird, weird balloons. Odd choice for a murder. ah The flowers, which were left outside the front door after the shooting, were red and white carnations, and they had been arranged in a nice little basket.
00:26:51
Speaker
i wanted to look up what red carnations and white carnations meant. So red can mean love and affection, and white carnations can mean innocence, purity, pure love, and good luck.
00:27:05
Speaker
So they're also another weird... combination ones oh okay i was like are those those ones they use a lot of funerals and stuff too though because that's macabre yeah i don't know i'm not really up on my flower association neither am i i was like i was like maybe the flowers have a meaning uh
00:27:29
Speaker
I don't think there was really much other evidence at the scene. ah Four days after the shooting, the LeBaron vehicle um that the clown had gotten into was found in a Winn-Dixie parking lot.
00:27:43
Speaker
Oh, okay. And I've heard Winn-Dixie before. Is like a burger joint or something? think so. It's making me hungry. of drive-in thing.
00:27:54
Speaker
that's Right? Right. uh there's some suspects that are interviewed some questions get asked uh but with no real like concrete evidence they're never really able to make any arrests charges against anybody it's just so crazy they could just come in and get away with that and just leave saturday morning You're never safe. In a wealthy, well-off neighborhood.
00:28:24
Speaker
yeah. Like, totally. With all the white privilege or whatever. I don't know. Was she white? Yeah. in ah With the weird, like, obviously no other evidence was really found and neither the clown costume nor the gun that was used it was ever actually recovered. Yeah.
00:28:50
Speaker
don't like that. They don't know what happened to it. Exactly.
00:28:56
Speaker
ah so it kind of goes into this period of it being classified as a cold case. um During this time, Michael and um I don't know how much Joey was around. Again, he was like 21 when this happened. So like he wasn't necessarily i don't know if he was necessarily living at home or what but he probably started having his own life going on and michael ended up kind of having his own thing going on too ah he settled down again i a little while later marrying this woman sheila keen who he met at the bargain motors car lot uh
00:29:40
Speaker
And after a little bit, they got married in 2002 and ended up moving and relocating to Southwest Virginia. and in two thousand And 2004, they sold a restaurant that they had been running.
00:29:56
Speaker
um think they sold it for like a pretty good profit or something. And they bought a house worth $600,000. Also in 2004, they did that.
00:30:05
Speaker
also in two thousand and four they did that um So they were kind of like off doing their own thing. Yeah, still making good money.
00:30:16
Speaker
yeah so it's staying kind of cool case this whole time when in 2013 investigators kind of start looking back on some of their old cases and decide to rerun some DNA evidence that might have been collected.
Cold Case Breakthrough and Arrest
00:30:31
Speaker
Oh, that's good.
00:30:34
Speaker
Yeah, it's always nice when you hear about these kind of cases. Yeah. I don't really know why, maybe because it wasn't a priority or something, but um unfortunately when they ran the DNA evidence, it said that it would take about three years to get the results back.
00:30:51
Speaker
Holy. Yeah, I don't really know why Like, it would take three years to get one DNA test back, but... Expedite that shit.
00:31:07
Speaker
Right? Right. But after that long wait, they did get an identical match, which we'll get into where that DNA test like came from. um But the culprit, who I never saw coming, was Sheila, Michael's second wife,
00:31:28
Speaker
who was just 27. it was your second wife. Did you ever see that SNL skit? It's time to meet your second wife. It's so funny.
00:31:40
Speaker
Who's in Each of their... um
00:31:47
Speaker
Michael Keaton guy, I think. And then... Oh, it's so funny. It has ah bunch of people. It's, like, older. i know... um Amy Poehler and Tina Fey are in it.
00:32:01
Speaker
So they, I don't know if they were like cast members or they were helping like host it or whatever, but they're the ones that are like running this game show thing where they're like, it's time to meet your second wife. And like each of the male contestants is currently married to their first wife.
00:32:17
Speaker
So they're like, what is this game show? Like what's happening right now? And they're like, this is your second wife. And each, each guy that they introduced, the second wife gets progressively younger. uh of course i this is nine-year-old Susie she's currently interested in horses and coloring it's just like this your second wife and then and then the last one ends with this like uh a girl that comes up on stage and the guy's like oh phew like she's not as young as the last one or whatever
00:32:52
Speaker
And they, like, introduce her and she's like, she's carrying your second wife that hasn't been born yet. Yeah,
00:33:01
Speaker
yeah it was so funny. Yeah, it's a fantastic sketch. It is on YouTube. I'm watching it every once in a while. It's so funny. Sounds like something they could have written. Yep. Tina Fey. All their first wives are, like, in the audience just, like, fuming. Because they're like, what the fuck?
00:33:18
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah.
00:33:23
Speaker
No, I gotta watch more, like, SNL skits and stuff. Like, I'm sure they're all over. Yeah. Shorts all over I don't regularly watch SNL because I just don't find it all that funny, but I like the compilations of, like, the best of whatever season.
00:33:40
Speaker
Yeah. Or stuff. Just give me the stuff that worked. I don't want to sit down and watch an hour group. Oh, it's terrible. We're also, like, yeah short attention span now.
00:33:52
Speaker
Yeah. um so guys have plus to listen us just kidding who's michael's second wife she at the time of marlene's murder was just 27 working with him and yeah so she was already working at the place um i don't know if she really knew marlene all that well marlene was like 40 so michael would be 38 so she's like so she's like
00:34:22
Speaker
11 years younger than Michael. um But she was the one responsible for pulling the trigger. um The pair were reportedly already having an affair at the time of the murder and had met when Sheila and her then husband, can't remember his name, ah they were running a car repo business.
00:34:42
Speaker
um And they must have, because Michael was running that car a lot, they must have somehow gotten contact or whatever. And Michael ended up hiring both Sheila and her current husband.
00:34:54
Speaker
And then they ended up, like, having an affair. And then all that was about five months before Marlene was shot. So it all happened pretty quickly. Damn.
00:35:08
Speaker
It all went down the drain so fast. Yeah. Like, what the hell? yeah Why are people so insane? like Right? Yeah. Usually it's a man that's like, I can't just get a divorce. I have to shoot one of these, one of our spouses.
00:35:24
Speaker
Ugh. And now, Sheila. we'll see. We'll Maybe there's still more. no. I think I've heard this one before. That's the worst part, is that I'm like, oh, this all sounds horribly familiar.
00:35:38
Speaker
That's how I felt when I was looking it up and I was like, am I just confusing it with the hairdressing one whatever? That was the other Halloween episode. Is that the one where the what the one having the affair is the wife and another woman? The wife.
00:35:54
Speaker
Yeah. And then they kill the husband that's a hairdresser on Halloween night. Yeah. Trick or treating or whatever. At the door, too, though, was At the door. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. What the fuck?
00:36:05
Speaker
This is becoming a thing, people. Don't make that happen. Oh, my God. So I do have quite... Two of my best sources were All That Is Interesting and another site that... Yeah, fantastic. Fucking... I put my phone on fucking silent. I'm sorry. I don't know why it keeps notifications beeping on me.
00:36:27
Speaker
The other source was like the Palm Beach Post because again, this all happened in Florida. So... um But this next lord bunch of things I had are all from All That Is Interesting Um, this is kind of like what investigators ended up releasing after that DNA evidence came back, because this wasn't like released to the public before that, um about like little bits and pieces of information they may have gathered in their initial investigation.
00:36:57
Speaker
Like they didn't release that to the public as far as I could tell. ah But I guess investigators had previously learned about the couple's affair. ah Coworkers at the auto shop were quick to tell investigators that Michael, the husband, had been having an affair saying it was no secret that he was a player. They'd leave the doors right open. There was no hiding it.
00:37:22
Speaker
And according to several of their fellow employees, um Sheila became possessive of Mike, though most but of the employees believed that Mike was interested in only having a casual sexual affair with her. And then she casually killed his wife and casually married him most yeah this is low-key uh usurp your fucking spouse okay um michael had been the first initial suspect when investigating marlene's death as he would benefit financially from her uh death
00:38:03
Speaker
Everything they owned or owned together was actually in her name. And when she passed away, he acquired 100% of all of those assets. So like the company, the car lot they were doing, and then the three properties, and then I don't know, probably their house too, that stuff was all in her name. Okay, wow. He got it all.
00:38:26
Speaker
Yep. um However, at the time, Mike actually, or Michael, had an alibi. At the time of her murder, Mike was in a car with some friends on their way to a horse race.
00:38:38
Speaker
So he was conveniently absent from the Saturday morning breakfast.
00:38:45
Speaker
At a horse race. Sorry. On a Saturday morning horse race. Sure, sure, sure. Don't know if that's something he regularly went to or maybe just that Saturday morning.
00:38:59
Speaker
Sounds a lot like an alibi. Yeah, how many people can we put into a car and go somewhere public? Yeah, exactly. And then I went home and asked for a receipt as I went through the drive-thru Wendy's. Yeah.
00:39:15
Speaker
And then I, what? Got pulled over by a cop or something. Just like anything. I waved at a traffic camera. Something rock solid.
00:39:27
Speaker
I sat in the park and fed the birds for nine hours. I was on TV at a baseball game. That was then part of Curb Your Enthusiasm. Oh, we gotta cover that one.
00:39:40
Speaker
That's crazy. Okay. ah basic That's basically it. So both investigators... or sorry, butt investigators soon learned about his relationship with Sheila.
00:39:52
Speaker
um Everybody was kind of reporting that they should actually first look at Sheila and not the husband Michael. um and that was this assistant state attorney who worked on the case, recalls.
00:40:05
Speaker
And within the next day or so, tips were being called in that you should really investigate Sheila Keene and Michael Warren, like together for planning it. Sheila claimed that she had been...
00:40:18
Speaker
There you go. Sheila claimed that she had been looking for repossession vehicles at the time of Marlene Warren's murder, but she was unable to name any specific locations or times, and she and Mike also denied having an affair, and Sheila said that she did not own a clown costume.
00:40:38
Speaker
Well, that's the best defense so far. Yeah. Continuing, it says, that said, police found a store owner who remembered a woman fitting Sheila's description buying a clown costume a few days before Marlene was killed.
00:40:56
Speaker
And workers at a local supermarket also remembered a woman with long, dark hair buying flowers and balloons like the clown had been carrying. And their descriptions of birth. And they receipts.
00:41:09
Speaker
And joe or Joey's description of the killer's vehicle also led investigators to find the clown's getaway car. ah Inside, they found brown hair, which seemed to match Sheila's and orange fibers that looked like they were from a clown's wig.
00:41:23
Speaker
So that was the DNA that they ended up retesting um in 2013 was like a hair that was found in the wig. And then they matched that DNA.
00:41:36
Speaker
to Sheila and it was inside the orange wig and then they matched the fiber like the fake hair from the orange wig into the fake hair the orange hair that was like found at this shooting scene so like they linked her to the wig and then they linked the wig to the scene and that was how they did it and it was obviously cut in the car yeah pretty and open and shut or whatever you want to call it yeah um fuck so just Throw the book at her. alene Just four months after Marlene Warren's murder, Mike Warren was arrested, though not in connection with her death.
00:42:15
Speaker
Police instead raided his car lot, where they found evidence of racketeering and odometer fraud, which was enough to put him behind bars for the next eight years. Upon his release in 1997, he decided to start a new life.
00:42:29
Speaker
And that's when him and Sheila... like started dating again after he got released in prison and then he got married in 2002 and the murder happened in 1980 1990 1990 still wow yeah so he was in prison eight years unrelated people just don't know
00:42:46
Speaker
still wow yeah so he was in prison for eight years unrelated people just sigh i don't know Yeah. ah Michael, yeah, he got they got married and they ended up moving to Tennessee.
00:43:06
Speaker
um But people knew Sheila as a blonde woman going by the name of Debbie. But Debbie obviously wasn't her real name. And she wasn't a natural blonde. And Michael's new wife was none other than Sheila Keen.
00:43:22
Speaker
oh can't imagine just going by a different name all of a sudden. just yeah and like i don't know where the son joe or joey was when all this was going on because like he saw the clown's face then you see and he saw that guy as his worst yeah and you must see pictures of like your dad getting your quote-unquote dad getting remarried and stuff and like i don't know it's really weird um yeah yeah it's possible it's like
00:43:55
Speaker
you don't live in the same city, you know, then you don't see your parents as often. Yeah. um Yeah. Yeah. and When this comes out, I will be hanging with my mom.
00:44:08
Speaker
Woo! Shout out! We love you, Ginny. ah She'll listen to this in six months.
00:44:17
Speaker
Sorry. Continuing on, they said, there's here's someone whose wife had been murdered and he just married the chief suspect.
Legal Proceedings and Suspicions
00:44:25
Speaker
ah When you combine the fact that the two of them were having an affair and then later they got married, it did seem like mission accomplished.
00:44:34
Speaker
Could you be any more suspicious? Yeah. Yeah. um While in Tennessee, Mike and Sheila opened up a burger restaurant they called the Purple Cow, where rumors about their past swirled.
00:44:48
Speaker
ah Former employees described Sheila as awful, aggressive, and mean, and they claimed that they had even heard rumors that Debbie had killed Mike's ex-wife.
00:44:59
Speaker
Oh my god. And Debbie... this is where i got mad. It said Debbie for her part wasn't subtle. She even dressed as a clown in the restaurant one year for Halloween.
00:45:10
Speaker
And there's pictures of that. And Debbie is Sheila. Okay. yeah Yeah. So there's pictures of her with her face all painted up like a clown. And they believe she would have done something similar that the day of the murder.
00:45:24
Speaker
It's not a great picture, but... Pictures exist, people. Pictures for proof. Right? ah just Just don't do it. Don't do the blackface. I just recently heard that Joan Mitchell did.
00:45:37
Speaker
What's her name? Joan Mitchell. That's an old blackface character. They talked about it on a podcast and then I saw it on the Reddit page for that and went, oh my god, it is really bad. Yeah.
00:45:49
Speaker
What's wrong with people? Anyway. Yeah. the The internet can find your embarrassing photos. Yeah. Oh, no.
00:46:01
Speaker
Oh, this is where it was. In 2014, police received a grant for cold case investigations. That's why they started testing the DNA. And they were able to re-examine the brown hair that they had found in the getaway car, and they also found a second strand of hair attached to a balloon from the crime scene.
00:46:18
Speaker
And after being sent off for comparison, the hair um with the hair Sheila had provided, it ca batches ah he came back as a match, and Sheila Keane Warren was finally arrested for first-degree murder on September 26, 2017, full years after marlene Warren was killed.
00:46:39
Speaker
free 27 years. Because the evidence the whole time. Just like in It. Like It. 27 years. No! ah It's too many clown connections. It all comes back to clowns.
00:46:52
Speaker
Right? Hi, baby. Oh my god. It was also determined that yeah so that the balloons that ah Sheila had bought brought to Marlene were actually sold by the store Publix and I guess they narrowed it down because only one specific location sold that brand of Mylar balloons. Should have gone to Party City.
00:47:20
Speaker
Right? And that one singular location in all of the city or whatever was only half a mile from Sheila's apartment. So, like... Jeez.
00:47:32
Speaker
At least expand your range. Like, jeez. Walking down the corner street. Um... But so Sheila gets arrested. Michael is standing by her side, insisting that they had nothing to do with Marlene's murder and blames investigators for letting Marlene's real murderer get away.
00:47:53
Speaker
okay Prosecutors initially sought the death penalty for Sheila, but that was eventually lowered to just life in prison.
00:48:04
Speaker
I mean, not just, but lowered to life in prison. Yeah. Oh, well, I don't love her, but I don't love the death penalty either. and Yeah. um She entered a plea deal, which ended up carrying 12 year prison sentence.
00:48:25
Speaker
um And she did that and she pleaded guilty to second degree murder in 2023. So like that was pretty recent.
00:48:35
Speaker
um okay and that's when she got 12 years or no she was what ended up happening is because of sentencing laws i don't really know how this works because of sensitive sentencing laws in 1990 and then having to spend five and a half years in jail um after her arrest because of like covid delays um because she was arrested in like 2017 her trial must have supposed to have been like 2020 or something it got delayed and it didn't happen um for a long time so yeah she had served five and a half years um already at the point of her trial so she ended up just serving a bit more and getting released in november of 2024 after serving 18 months like additional on top of that five and a half years so she got off pretty good
00:49:34
Speaker
ae I'm like, that doesn't, I'm like 18 months plus five and a half years does not equal 12 years. just want to point that out. Pretty short film exactly life sentence. Yeah.
00:49:48
Speaker
For murder.
00:49:52
Speaker
Damn. And then getting to live free for 27
00:49:58
Speaker
Yeah. ah Probably people have gotten more for drug charges in the States. I don't know. Yeah, for sure. What I have coming up, this is kind of stuff that I wanted to mention because I don't necessarily believe that Michael wasn't involved.
00:50:19
Speaker
I think he played a much bigger part in this all than um some of the sources will even lead you to believe. And that she just didn't snitch.
00:50:31
Speaker
Yeah. um So this was all from like a Palm Beach post saying Marlene Warren reportedly told her mother and her son that if anything happened to her, it was her husband who did it.
00:50:47
Speaker
And she said multiple times. be Just something you normally say. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I always well like to hear that. Yeah.
00:50:58
Speaker
Michael was on his way to Calder Racetrack in Miami Gardens when the clown came to Marlene's door. um
00:51:10
Speaker
Yeah, so he had, like, created an alibi a year before. um was this oh a year before the killing michael was in the palm beach county courthouse walking out of a courtroom with attorney christopher de santis when he asked the lawyer a question as one casually does such as if a husband were to murder his wife what would happen to her estate like fuck you giant eye roll
00:51:43
Speaker
Okay. yeah hit the warrior jail Yeah. The lawyer says, my first impression was, is this guy nuts? Because why would you ask that question with your wife there? ah DeSantis told police in 1991.
00:51:59
Speaker
um he continued saying, and then I looked around and his wife wasn't there. DeSantis had been representing Marlene's son on a 1986 assault case. And Marlene talked to DeSantis frequently.
00:52:13
Speaker
DeSantis said he always thought that there was no problems with like the Warrens' marriage. So he thought the comments were a little weird. Get out of left field. Right?
00:52:25
Speaker
Just what are you doing Friday? what would happen if somebody murdered their wife? Just wondering. LOL. That's good for a friend. Yeah. The attorney say figured the question was a curiosity, like a law school question.
00:52:43
Speaker
And in this case, I didn't think this was... It says, in this case, Florida law was peculiar. And DeSantis told Michael Warren, son... What? Son of a clown murder victim doesn't think Oh no, that's like the title of a... Sorry, I think.
00:53:05
Speaker
don't know why that's in here. Sounds like well-worded headline. Son of a clown murderer. Yeah, i hated that headline. I mean, isn't it? No, this is what he says.
00:53:16
Speaker
um it really is an issue of whether a man kills his wife. The question is whether the man is convicted of murdering his wife. Because there's if he's convicted of murdering his wife, he wouldn't inherit.
00:53:29
Speaker
But if he were... ah But if he were convicted of a lower charge, he would. And not only that, DeSantis went on, but if he had a friend who did it and they couldn't tie him as an accessory to that friend, he would get away scot-free. Hmm.
00:53:49
Speaker
So like, if somebody murdered the wife on his behalf and it couldn't be tied back to him because maybe he had an alibi, then, huh, gee, he would inherit everything.
00:54:01
Speaker
which is basically what happened. hate it. That's such yeah stupid loophole. um Attorney DeSantis talked again to police around the time Sheila was arrested back 2017, saying he remembered telling Michael something else.
00:54:23
Speaker
I don't know if I necessarily believe this or not. but saying a killer dressed as a clown would likely get off because the witness would have a hard time telling whether it was a man or a woman.
00:54:35
Speaker
So, like, how do you prove? That's a very specific statement. Yeah, I don't really understand what the point of that was, because, I mean, she'd already been killed at that time, so, like, I think he's just trying to point out that, like,
00:54:53
Speaker
maybe it was a good costume to pick because if you did it properly like people couldn't tell if it was a guy or a girl but I figure I think there's plenty of other costumes that would be a lot better being able tell somebody's gender makeup isn't much of a yeah it's not a it's not a full mask exactly yeah it changes the shape of your face and so yeah so I was a little confused by that one Yeah, they're just trying to throw some doubt in there. All you need is some reasonable doubt.
00:55:26
Speaker
Yeah, we have a little bit more. um back to that All That Is Interesting article saying Sheila insisted that she only accepted that plea deal because she knew she would be released quickly and Michael still standing beside like behind her.
00:55:46
Speaker
um echoed that statement saying my wife did not commit this crime and it was difficult to see her plea to a crime that she did not commit but it wasn't worth the gamble that she would be offered a deal sorry when she would be offered a deal that'll have her home in 16 to 18 months.
00:56:03
Speaker
They're saying like even though she took the plea deal she didn't do it. ah Michael himself has never been charged in connection to his wife's death. find that interesting because So he still could be.
00:56:17
Speaker
No,
Intermission and Personal Banter
00:56:18
Speaker
I don't know. He probably won't be. feel like he is. um Yeah. And then for Joe, i think his last name's Aaron's.
00:56:30
Speaker
um He, yeah i guess, struggled with alcoholism and drug addiction after his mother's death. ah And Sheila's, but he says that like Sheila's guilty plea was a relief.
00:56:44
Speaker
saying it was very emotional because that was the end of something so huge that grew for 33 years of its life. And finally it was over and he was relieved.
00:56:58
Speaker
But he also, i think that was what that little thing was, was saying that was like son of a clown killer's victim or something. I think he also believes like Michael was somehow involved and that Sheila didn't act alone.
00:57:12
Speaker
Um, yeah, i don't see how you could trust your dad the same after that. Yeah, exactly. um that ah attorney guy he reacted similarly, saying at the end of the day, a guilty plea is a guilty plea.
00:57:29
Speaker
And he said that Sheila Keen Warren will always be an admitted convicted murderer and will wear that stain every day for the rest of her life. um and there was i didn't have time to watch this i don't know if it's available anymore but there was a three-part documentary called killer killer clown murder on the on the doorstep um which was done by sundance and amc plus um beat around the bush with that title right
00:58:00
Speaker
right
00:58:03
Speaker
I kept singing like murder on the dance floor, but not give the group. I was like, nope Wonder what this one's going to about. Yeah. um Yeah. so I don't know if that's still available to watch. I didn't have time to end up watching it.
00:58:19
Speaker
No, but people could check it out probably. Yeah. be I think it'd be nice if it has more from like family members and everything. Like,
00:58:30
Speaker
Yeah, that makes it always hit harder for sure. Yeah, like Marlene's son and her her mother, who I think was still alive and everything when everything happened.
00:58:44
Speaker
So, yeah. That's crazy. And I hate it. Did you watch that one about, or called like the American nightmare or something about the guy and he has two kids and he goes and to, or he's from Ireland and he gets an au pair and she's American and they end up getting married and moving back to America.
00:59:14
Speaker
It's, it's a good one.
00:59:18
Speaker
and Sounds vaguely familiar. He gets murdered. Yeah. And then it's all about like, yeah. Well, that's kind of a spoiler.
00:59:31
Speaker
It's like, I don't know. It's like, like she's she says he's beating her, but then her dad says, I came downstairs to help her and, and you know, we were it was only self-defense, but then like, there's all this blood everywhere and it just doesn't...
00:59:48
Speaker
make a lot of sense. And so it's, it's really tragic. Like there's a lot with the, with the kids from the kids perspectives and you can just see how it really affected them.
01:00:01
Speaker
Yeah. Like they, they talk, um, as grown-ups and whatever so yeah it's it's pretty devastating but it's a good one like it's worth worth a watch it's yeah yeah can't remember my american nightmare or something like that yeah um okay well let's all go watch some horrible documentaries and then something to cleanse the palate yeah i and to think i was looking up listicles of nice funny crimes
01:00:34
Speaker
like I kind of started in that vein too because I was like duct tape bandit like that they covered it in wine and cry. He just like covered his face in duct tape and that was basically is his whole disguise.
01:00:47
Speaker
I watched a couple good ones that was like somebody dressed up in a full like rabbit costume and somebody dressed up like a bottle of Coca-Cola. And I was like, these are pretty fun. These surveillance videos are entertaining. then I was like, that's not a great podcast format, though.
01:01:03
Speaker
no but that could be a fun segment for a Patreon episode. Bonus episode. Yeah, I could probably find it again. Because it didn't matter it wouldn't matter than if it was a bit shorter. Yeah.
01:01:15
Speaker
Yeah, I mean the video itself of this was included in it. So it was like funny video about a duck, funny video about a bunny, somebody wearing a cardboard box on their heads. This case that took up like three out of eight minutes of the thing and then it went back to like funny ones and I like, what?
01:01:35
Speaker
I was like, one of these things is not like the other. Yeah, yeah. One of these sure did catch my attention and this funny little montage of people wearing stupid costumes.
01:01:45
Speaker
It's like, Jesus Christ. There's a Smartless spinoff um podcast. it's just It's called Clueless, and it's like little quizzes and stuff, and it's with Sean Hayes.
01:01:56
Speaker
And they do this game, Odd One Out, and then the intro music for is like, odd one out, get out! And every time Sean laughs, he's like, I love that one! It's so cute.
01:02:08
Speaker
It's just like an AI voice. And like music or whatever. Silly. from Okay, well, we're going to take a break. And we'll be right back. Here's a word from our ah independent podcaster friends. Yeah.
01:02:29
Speaker
Sometimes it's not the loudest stories that keep us up at night. It's the quiet ones. The ones that never quite made the headlines. The ones that left behind more questions than answers.
01:02:39
Speaker
The Final Trace is a true crime podcast about the strange, the unresolved, and the stories that slip through the cracks. From disappearances to mysterious deaths. To cases that were technically solved, but still don't sit right.
01:02:53
Speaker
We dig into the overlooked, the eerie, and the human side of every story. Because even when a case goes cold, there's always something left behind. A clue, a feeling, a final trace.
01:03:07
Speaker
Follow The Final Trace wherever you listen to podcasts and come find what still lingers in the silence. I'm your host, Hopper Daly, and this is The Final Trace.
01:03:18
Speaker
Music
01:03:30
Speaker
Well, they missed all that hand cream chat.
01:03:36
Speaker
I have one here that's, this is so old. I bought this from like Chapters when I still worked at the West office. Oh, okay. This one's wild jasmine and bluebell. And as you can see, it's still full. Hardly touched.
01:03:55
Speaker
Smells great, though. We were talking about, I got Hemp's brand lip balm and they have a lovely new hand cream scent too. That's bergamot and warm vanilla. And I said, it's basically a London frog.
01:04:09
Speaker
Oh, I love it. But they had um like this and but caramel apple. The caramel apple one actually kind of smelled like shit. I was like, I'm glad you guys let me smell that one because I wanted to try it.
01:04:19
Speaker
Yeah. try it yeah There testers. Always talk to me. Yeah. And they were like, here, we'll just open it. And then I was like, oh, and the girl's like, yeah, I usually like that one, but I didn't like it this year either. Oh, weird.
01:04:33
Speaker
I can't remember what one it was that me and some other people were like obsessed with. Okay. When I worked at. Sometimes they're really good. It was like the first one I got introduced to.
01:04:47
Speaker
um It was watermelon and something, um but it smelled so good. It didn't smell like watermelon because I hate like watermelon scented things. Oh, was it the watermelon coconut? I've had that one. Maybe like something like that.
01:05:01
Speaker
ah So good. This was forever ago. it was at my first job. So like, I don't know, 11, 12 years ago. I had that one at work and and yeah, people would remark upon it that were worked near me.
01:05:19
Speaker
It's like, oh yeah. Love to have a nice smelling scent. don't know. Tropical.
01:05:29
Speaker
Yeah. And when you're like, have to wash my hands at work and they get all dry. Well, at least I get to put on something, you know, lovely. Yeah. Excuse me.
01:05:42
Speaker
Yeah, especially going into winter, you want to keep your hands moisturized. and of like One of my old managers, her hands would get all cracked and they would start bleeding. It was so bad.
01:05:55
Speaker
Oh, wow. I mean, come on, you're not like a farmer, but it does get to like minus 40 here, so that actually doesn't surprise me. like it Yeah, that sucks. Yeah, I'd be like, ugh.
01:06:09
Speaker
Moisturize people! um Okay, that's a weird turn. No. It puts the lotion on its skin.
01:06:20
Speaker
Oh my god. Barkly. Yeah, all that to say, ah sell a bunch of shit at my ah salon that I didn't know about. and From shampoo to hand cream and I even saw some lube and like like like sort of cologne. I don't know. They just had like everything. And then there was like this oh something kind of mask and it said something cryo mask. And I was like, what is this? The future?
01:06:53
Speaker
Cryogenic. Freezing for my face. yeah i can I can see that kind of stuff and like cologne because men, one stop shop. Yeah. Beard oil. Anything to make them anything to make them even slightly more hygienic.
01:07:11
Speaker
Yeah. They smell better. They're going to, hey, would you like to buy this? But lube. Why? lube. That's weird. don't know. I thought it was funny. um Yeah. And like, yeah, it's like a nice one. It's chatters. They have like everything from that to like hair dryers and stuff too. So it's really, it's kind of a one-stop shop. Yeah. I rather like it.
01:07:37
Speaker
And I got, yeah, I got all the tea. Yeah. yeah From my favorite lady. So that was nice. Rain was like, I just woke up. I'm hungry. She was like monosyllabic.
01:07:51
Speaker
But Heather understands. She's got kids of her own. Yeah.
01:08:00
Speaker
um And then we fed Rain and she perked right up.
01:08:06
Speaker
You're not you when you're hungry. do Snickers or whatever. I know. I had a big London frog and then I didn't hardly eat anything, but those are full of calories, so that's probably why. You know how you like yeah drink a big coffee or something or a latte? like It really fills you up yeah quite a bit.
01:08:26
Speaker
i think it's all like the cream or dairy and stuff in it too. doesn't help. Right. People are like, don't eat a lot, and then they're like, Or, like, a lot of calories. And then you're, like, drinking, like, a frickin' milkshake, basically, made of coffee. Like, a Frappuccino. And they're like, what? That's what I said to somebody. Because they're, like, they were... can't remember what was talking them about. And I was like, I... Other than, like, iced coffee, which... I put some sugar and, like, milk and stuff in. I don't drink a lot of other types of drinks. So, was like, I'm trying not to, like, just drink my calories every single day. Like...
01:09:03
Speaker
Yeah. Save some of that for the alcohol, at least. If it's not iced coffee, I'm normally just drinking tea or water. like yeah Depending on how the temperature outside.
01:09:17
Speaker
yeah Sometimes i'll kind I'm conscious, like, yeah, you had a big luncheon. Maybe don't have anything to drink tonight or whatever. because it does add up. um And I'm trying to get rid of some of this fat in my face.
01:09:35
Speaker
Oh, anyway. Okay, so we get to talk about something um a little less murdery now. So that's fun. Okay. Yeah. Switching things up.
01:09:47
Speaker
Yeah, we're going to talk about a dude called William Slick Willie Sutton.
01:09:56
Speaker
Nickname. I'm calling him a master of disguise. Okay. ah Okay.
01:10:05
Speaker
Yeah. um Yeah, I was like looking up lists and stuff and it varied from like, you know, best disguises in history, even though I looked up like, i thought I looked up worst or weirdest or something. And then it's like, yeah, and horse.
01:10:22
Speaker
You're like, well, okay, but maybe not so much that. And like, I don't know, like people dressing up as like, men to be like soldiers in the Civil War, like, like women. Yeah.
01:10:35
Speaker
Yeah, i ran across stuff like that too so I kept being like we um Strange ah Costumes worn to commit crimes And stuff Okay, yeah, I think I put more like yeah Weird disguise And stuff um Yeah, there's some different ones We could probably revisit it, I know There's other ones I've heard On different podcasts Let us know if you like it As always Um Don't forget to rate us, too.
01:11:05
Speaker
God damn it. On our Spotify. Yes. Rate, review, subscribe. It was only a little bit triggering to be listening to We're Here to Help today. Why am I giving them more free shoutouts? They don't need it. Because theirs have something that says over 100,000 plays on a few of their early episodes. And I was like, if we get to that, then Spotify would tell people.
01:11:27
Speaker
Can you imagine? Oh. Or 25,000. I don't even know about her.
01:11:33
Speaker
We're so close. Oh, our... Our, uh... Yeah, our analytics is harder to find on Zencaster than it was on Spotify for podcasters or whatever, so... Yeah, I kind of miss having the, like... Yeah. Breakdowns like, the countries and... The Spotify rap. You to tell us some interesting stuff.
01:11:54
Speaker
You get for the podcasters, too. was nice. Ugh, whatever. Um... Yeah, we'll figure it out.
01:12:06
Speaker
Hopefully we'll have some more time to work on some of that behind the scenes marketing and crap that everyone else seems to be so good at. Here's all the reels of us recording the episodes and looking amazing. Shut up.
01:12:19
Speaker
I hate you, but good for you. Hey, I'm in my pajamas like night. I'm in my comfy clothes 90% the time. I know. I'm so hard relate when like... It just me wearing this sweater every second episode.
01:12:33
Speaker
It's kind of a big Lebowski sweater. I love it. um This one's Harry Potter. My sister-in-law bought it for me. It was of the first Christmas presents I actually ever got from her. It's the pattern. It's so cute. It's like gray and black. Yeah, so these are the hats.
01:12:47
Speaker
And then the golden... Oh, that's just like a star. Then it's got all these ages on it. oh it does. And then here... Down here down here is
01:12:57
Speaker
Oh, here's the golden. There's golden snitches across right here. And then done in gray there's wands. Oh, here's the l the elder wand right on the bone.
01:13:11
Speaker
Oh, okay. So it's a covert Harry Potter sweater. You would never know. That's kind of true. oh Oh, and if we are showing, no, we're not on video. I was going to say, yeah, I relate to um podcasters that usually do video, like Creeps and Crimes. They'll be like, this one's audio only.
01:13:30
Speaker
don't want to dress up. But um I am wearing i'm wearing a shirt I just got that says, Dinna Fash Sassanek. With the dragonfly. Oh, okay. I couldn't tell what the dragonfly was. I was like, is the top of her shirt censored?
01:13:48
Speaker
like just looked like it was like the top lines were censored and then I couldn't make out what the bottom said. I was like, why is she blurring the top of her shirt?
01:14:00
Speaker
Just self-censoring. Oh, no. with talk if we keep this in now, we have to add pictures of our shirts. Because people will be like, what? It's audio medium. Like, I hate it when people go, and then I just did this.
01:14:12
Speaker
And then they do something and you're like, I'm not watching this. This is a podcast. Because, like, everybody's on fucking YouTube at the same time. Anyway. So.
01:14:24
Speaker
Back to our... I am ready. Back to our boy here.
Story of Bank Robber 'Slick Willie' Sutton
01:14:28
Speaker
so ah William Slick Willie was born on the 30th of June 1901 in Brooklyn New York.
01:14:38
Speaker
He's from Brooklyn. That's old? 1901? Okay. Turn of the century. I know we went to different decades as well.
01:14:50
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. um he was actually born in um a place in brooklyn called irishtown so that's fun because he was of irish descent it's like right on the nose but maybe that's because they used to like really discriminate against irish people and like italians and stuff so probably that's because they got shoved into one area i'm guessing yeah it's like um
01:15:16
Speaker
Like, whenever there's, like, people are like, oh, yeah, this is, like, the Chinatown. And I'm like, but is this a good thing? Right. um like Hopefully now we're leaning into it, yeah. Because, like, oh, I loved living near little Chinatown. um Here we live near in Edmonton. Yeah.
01:15:33
Speaker
Yeah. I'm like, oh. and Yeah. Sometimes I'm reading the historical books and I come across something and they're, like, talking about, yeah, yeah at the time there was, like,
01:15:46
Speaker
um well, they called it racism because like the the British people or whoever would be like, no, the Irish are like a grosser race. And like they have yeah babies as fast as rats do. And and then we call it and that's where we got the term for like Irish twins because they were saying that like they'd, you know, be pregnant for nine months, be not for two months and then be pregnant for nine months again. and Because apparently that's how rats do it. But in weeks, yeah.
01:16:13
Speaker
And I'm just like, oh, I never realized like how racist the origin of that term was. Like I just say it without thinking like, oh yeah, Irish twins. And then you're like, oh, camp. Like those things we got to think about now looking back.
01:16:26
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah.
01:16:32
Speaker
Okay. Okay. So was that out of the way, he was the fourth of five kids. So yeah, I think he did have a few siblings possibly even in quick succession. i don't know.
01:16:44
Speaker
ah But it said his mom was Irish. Either she was born in Ireland and then they moved to the USA or her parents were the ones that moved and she was born in Maryland. So they were like first or second generation immigrants, I believe. oh cantor Yeah.
01:16:58
Speaker
So pretty damn Irish still. Yeah. He left school after 8th grade to get a job, which is probably not that uncommon at the time. No, not for Yeah.
01:17:12
Speaker
Yeah. Gotta go work in the mines or something. I'm a child, I yearn for the mines. From the Minecraft movie.
01:17:23
Speaker
So good, guys. Jack Black and... What's his face? Jason Momoa. They're just a treat. Yeah.
01:17:34
Speaker
I love how they got really close together but with during that filming. And i think one of them knitted the other a sweat, like matching sweaters. it It was like this bromance. I feel like Jason Momoa probably doesn't have a lot of people that want to like goof off with him.
01:17:50
Speaker
Like, you know, because he's done a lot of like serious movies and like. action movies and yeah it was kind of thing so it's nice to get to be like goofy cornball with somebody true I think he even talked about that a little bit on he was recently on like smart listen because he got called like called the Khal Drogo on Game of Thrones and so then I think he got those types of roles like very serious yeah to play around much or talk much even
01:18:27
Speaker
Yeah, that too. Just sat there looking good. I'm re, I'm, watching yeah, I'm watching one of the YouTube channels I'm watching. They're, they just started reacting to Game of Thrones.
01:18:38
Speaker
And was like, damn, it's been, i think I only ever rewatched the first season. And then other than that, I've only ever seen most of the episode was once. So was like, okay, I'm saying like, sit down and watch it.
01:18:50
Speaker
And that's one thing i noticed. I was like, oh, this is the sixth episode and he's had like no lines.
01:18:59
Speaker
Oh no, he just said his first line in the sixth episode. Damn. but True. Or at least that's how felt. I love the first seasons. The first few seasons are so good.
01:19:14
Speaker
um Okay. Anyway. Oh yeah, so he so he got many little jobs for short periods of time, including like a clerk, ah a driller, and a gardener. Okay.
01:19:29
Speaker
Miscellaneous, I suppose. Just whatever you... Yeah. Just odd jobs. and Yeah, who knows. But his longest job at the at the time was only 18 months long, so he couldn't really seem to hold down a job.
01:19:44
Speaker
Yeah. but still somehow managed to get married in 1929 to a Louise Ludeman. ah But ah even though they had a daughter together named Jeannie, she did leave him after he went to prison for the for the first time.
01:20:02
Speaker
Oh no. ah Okay. i mean yeah
01:20:06
Speaker
Going to prison is not great. He's a, he's a big fan of the, the Robin. Robin. Likes to rob. okay. Yeah. ah So... So that's... what You know, he's not a... Not a killer, though.
01:20:23
Speaker
Okay, yeah. i would be totally different, too. think he just wants a little money and a little fun. But we'll get into it. He's got so some quotes and stuff. um He did remarry eventually... Or I guess so that's about four years later to an Olga Kowalska...
01:20:43
Speaker
not sure how long that one lasted. Yeah. Honestly, not a lot of sources on guy, if I'm being honest. Oh, okay. Yeah, that happens. Yeah. Relied heavily on ah Wikipedia and one from, like, FBI.gov.
01:20:59
Speaker
so that one damn. Yeah. was interesting. It had a lot. I've used that as a source sometimes when somebody is on, like, an FBI wanted list or something. Exactly. You're damn, I'm getting... Information straight from the FBI.
01:21:14
Speaker
Straight from the gov's mouth. Yeah. So he was kind of of that era where he was like more known as the sort of the gentleman robber that's not prone to violence.
01:21:25
Speaker
Yeah. known Known to be quite polite by reputation. and Also very well dressed. I'll have to try and find some. I didn't see a ton of pictures of him all dressed up, but you know, it's the time where everybody's wearing them hats and looking good. Yeah.
01:21:41
Speaker
Even their their everyday clothes is better than our Sunday best.
01:21:47
Speaker
Yeah. um One witness at a bank robbery of Willie's said it was like going to the movies, only the usher had a gun in his hand. Okay.
01:21:59
Speaker
I mean, okay. Sounds like he wasn't scared. ah Yeah, i was just going to say it sounds like the threat of violence was not being felt by the general public yeah he wants them to fear how much they love him i love michael scott yeah um and then there was a description of him ah that started quote a little bright-eyed guy just five seven and always talking chain smoking cigarettes with bill durham tobacco
01:22:31
Speaker
and
01:22:34
Speaker
two That was from, oh, sorry, I should have prefaced this. This is a quote. It was a quote from a mafioso named Donald, Donald Frankos. ah So Frankos stated also that Sutton dispensed mounds of legal advice to any convict willing to listen.
01:22:53
Speaker
He's a lawyer too now. Okay. Way to go. Yeah. Was it good legal advice? Doesn't say. Yeah.
01:23:04
Speaker
Inmates considered Sutton a quote, wise old head in the prison population. When incarcerated at the tombs, ah which was a man how or nickname for the Manhattan house of detention, I guess he did not have to worry about assault because mafia friends protected him.
01:23:22
Speaker
So that's nice. Nice. In conversation with Donald Franco, he would sadly reminisce about the 1920s and 30s when he was most active in, this is later on, obviously, active in robbing banks and would always tell fellow convicts that in his opinion during the days of Al Capone and Lucky Luciano, the criminals were the bloodiest.
01:23:40
Speaker
um
01:23:43
Speaker
Gangsters from the time period and many incarcerated organized crime inmates enjoyed having Sutton for companionship. he was witty and non-violent and francos declared that sutton made legendary bank thieves jesse james and john dillinger seem like amateurs that's the whole oh really oh going after john dillinger was like shots fired except not because he doesn't like to shoot sorry so getting into his first day's
01:24:14
Speaker
February 15, 1933, he and his first accomplice try and rob this bank called the Corn Exchange Bank and Trust Company in Philadelphia. Corn.
01:24:28
Speaker
ah Rain's friends were Philadelphia. Or Pennsylvania. I don't so second attempt was on... or sorry but but but back up sutton was dressed as a mailman and went in first thing in the morning ah but they chickened out after some scrutiny from an onlooker spooked them um okay second attempt was on january 15th 1934 so a year later willie and two accomplices get in through a skylight somehow oh damn that's a totally different approach
01:25:05
Speaker
I'm like a skylight. They walk in the front door one time one year or the next year. They're coming in through the roof. Mission Impossible style. Right. Yeah, so they like break in, i think, in the night. And then when the watchman arrived, they forced him to admit the employees as usual. And each employee was handcuffed and crowded into a small room.
01:25:25
Speaker
And yeah, that was how that one went. It was pretty successful, I guess. He robbed ah robbed a Broadway jewelry store by, quote, impersonating a postal telegraph messenger.
01:25:37
Speaker
um and he also used cost costumes or uniforms of dressing up like a cop, a messenger, and a maintenance man. So he did like to do that to get in. Classics.
01:25:49
Speaker
I mean, people don't question it, right? Yeah. You got it like a clipboard and stuff. And I mean, but you're wearing ah I don't know, they call it a boiler suit in Britain.
01:26:02
Speaker
Just like a jump suit. Whatever. Yeah. um He did love to carry around some guns. He had an affinity for Thompson machine guns and pistols.
01:26:13
Speaker
And he had this quote, it said, ah you can't rob a bank on charm and personality. He once observed um in an interview in the reader's digest published shortly before his death, Sutton was asked if the guns that he used in his robberies were loaded.
01:26:30
Speaker
He responded that he never carried a loaded gun because somebody might get hurt.
01:26:35
Speaker
Damn. And nobody ever called his bluff. I guess not. it's crazy. And kudos to Reader's Digest. What the fuck kind of articles are they doing?
01:26:47
Speaker
I know! Sometimes they're good. My mom liked Reader's Digest. I mean, inspired... Sometimes when used them as a source, I'm like, what the hell? Yes. Or you're like, oh, they inspired the Lagina boys to come dig up Oak Island. Like, they're affecting people.
01:27:04
Speaker
um But yeah, i thought that was kind of funny. ah It said that he stole from the rich and kept it, though public opinion later made him into a type of gentleman thief like Robin Hood.
01:27:16
Speaker
He allegedly never robbed a bank when a woman screamed or a baby cried.
01:27:21
Speaker
Oh.
01:27:24
Speaker
It sounds like he's taking on like legend status to me. Yeah, I don't think that's true. That no women were like, ah! Ever. Ever. He's like, well, I'm out. Sorry to... Pardon me, ma'am.
01:27:36
Speaker
Have a nice day. of Oh, that's the only the only... Strike one. Woman crying. I'm out. Yeah. But, like... It does remind me, too. if We did watch the adaptation about the the Stockholm Bank that got robbed.
01:27:53
Speaker
That was starring Skarsgård there. It himself. Pennywise himself. Yeah. Bill Skarsgård. And there was a lot of sex, but it was good.
01:28:08
Speaker
it was really funny as Clark. I don't know. just like banging some chick and then like her mom was there and then he was like banging the mom. was just like, okay. It was a lot of like, it was because there was some backstory about him growing up and stuff like that. and Okay. I was going to say, I don't remember that from your case.
01:28:28
Speaker
No, but he almost hooked up with one of the One of the bank tellers, I think. Like, there was, like, rumors of stuff going down. I can't remember. It's been it's been a hundred years.
01:28:42
Speaker
i know. Everybody go re-listen to the um episode that we covered that in. Whichever one that was.
01:28:50
Speaker
Yeah. Sweden crimes, maybe? oh Nope. I don't know. I need to look it up. I can't remember. i think we... Did we do specifically, like, robberies or something?
01:29:09
Speaker
Bank heists, yeah. Guys, tell us. Let us know in the comments. I think we did... um
01:29:18
Speaker
like hostages i think it was about like people being hostages because the one I did was um but the one where they kept the bus yeah they kept the yeah the bus and then the a cup they took a couple hostages with them in the car yeah and stuff that was the one I did so I think it was something about hostages that was horrifying yeah Like, you're scared to ride the goddamn bus!
01:29:48
Speaker
Ugh! Where the media and everything got so involved and it messed up everything. Oh, yeah. That was so Like, photographed. that was the crazy part.
01:30:02
Speaker
Yeah, like, hours. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
01:30:08
Speaker
Oh, Kelsey, that one was sad. i don't want to think about it anymore.
01:30:13
Speaker
Let's go back to this now. Where he's going to go to jail again. yay Oh, shoot. This kid... June 1931. I have the date, the year wrong here. Because we just saw him rob two banks. We got up to 1934. And then I have he was rearrested in June 1931. Oh, shoot.
01:30:41
Speaker
so Has Wikipedia failed me or did I put it down wrong? Because i i already had I did have to fix a different date where I went, that doesn't make any sense. 17 years later is not the next year or something like that.
01:30:55
Speaker
Oh, I'm so sorry. um So, yeah, I guess this is when he goes to jail at one point, probably still in the nineteen thirty s because he's in there for a while.
01:31:07
Speaker
it says
01:31:13
Speaker
Anyway, I don't know. a little unclear about the beginning clearly i have he was sentenced to 30 years at that point and then about a year and a half later have in december of 1932 he escapes so perhaps perhaps i was incorrect in that the february 1933 one is his first attempt but that's what it said i'm sorry timelines oh yeah me crazy
01:31:46
Speaker
Oh no, is nothing going to add up now? Okay. Year and a half in December 1932, he escapes. Okay, escaped in 32.
01:31:58
Speaker
Right, then robs a place 33. and and 34. Oh no, he's attempted. Okay, okay. No, I think we're good. I'm so sorry.
01:32:10
Speaker
It was also long ago. um He was caught, I'm pretty sure again, on February 5th, 1934. and this time they said he'd get 25 to 50 years at the Eastern State Penitentiary. Never heard of it.
01:32:27
Speaker
Nope, never. Isn't that the haunted one? I thought that was the haunted one. Yeah. Oh.
01:32:34
Speaker
In Philly. And this is for the machine gun robbery of the Corn Exchange Bank. Okay, yeah. He does a lot of getting in jail and escaping. He next escapes on April 3rd, 1945 with 12 others through a tunnel. Through the use of a tunnel.
01:32:52
Speaker
Oh, are they shopping at Gordo? Yeah. I'm trying to contain this furry, furry child. oh Pat was watching a... a podcast on YouTube earlier and their cat was weaving around and also, yeah nudging against its laptops. I'm like, oh, it's pulling the gordo.
01:33:12
Speaker
Yeah. They all do it. Okay. So this, you be sorry.
01:33:20
Speaker
check ah Okay. This time he was appretended the same day by the Philadelphia police and they were annoyed at this point.
01:33:31
Speaker
This was his fifth attempt at that prison, apparently, to escape. Damn. He was then sentenced to life as a fourth-time offender. so yeah, he's been in and out at this point.
01:33:45
Speaker
Goes off to Philly, country Philadelphia. and Didn't want to write that all out. ah County prison in Holmesburg. And then on February 10th of 1947, he and others stole some guard uniforms, classic, his favorite, and they head out to the yard.
01:34:03
Speaker
Jesus. If I can use it to get into places, surely I can use to get out of prison. Yeah. He's a career ah prison escapee.
01:34:16
Speaker
Escape artist. Yeah.
01:34:20
Speaker
Like, stop robbing banks. You just keep going back to jail. Yeah. Armed with ladders in hand, they went to the perimeter wall, and when searchlights spotted them... This is great. I love it. Sorry.
01:34:35
Speaker
Walking with ladders under cover of darkness. do do just Like a little cartoon. They got their guard uniforms on. They're ready for it. They see the searchlights, and they just yell out, It's okay!
01:34:46
Speaker
We're all good down here! Maintenance! It's just us! And the Garfs just waved them off again. just casually go on your merry-go-round. Oh my god
01:34:58
Speaker
And this is why on March 20th, 1950, he was added to the FBI's most wanted list. The newly made what Wow. I think he was one of the first ones.
01:35:11
Speaker
um And they also would, when they wanted, when he was on the lam... They would show his wanted photo to like tailors and dress shops and all these fine clothing places.
01:35:24
Speaker
Cause he was just such a spiffy dresser. Hey.
01:35:29
Speaker
um and it was ah ironically, finally on February 18th, a lot of February's, uh, 1952, he's spotted by a 24 year old man named Arnold Schuster, who was a Brooklyn clothes that clothing salesman and amateur detective.
01:35:44
Speaker
Um, amateur detective i don't know one source just said a taylor son but then the other source said that which was way better ah yeah i'm a taylor but i'm also batman night um so he saw sutton on the subway and he then followed willie to a gas station where he was buying a battery because apparently that was where you could buy a car battery at the time.
01:36:14
Speaker
And the police caught up with him there and he did not at risk resist arrest, but did deny any crimes committed since his 1947 escape. He was like, no, I've been ah swear You can't arrest me for escaping prison if I've been good. haven't tried to rob anyone.
01:36:34
Speaker
ah he They said he was owing one life sentence plus 105 years. Yeah, I was going to say he must have been sentenced to 100 years by now. And he's not going to get out after five in 18 months.
01:36:48
Speaker
No. ah Ugh. No, in fact, at this point, they have a trial in Queens County Court where they slap on 30 more years. we're like, that's not good enough.
01:37:00
Speaker
That's meaningless at this point if he just escapes again. I know. Or as long as we can hold him. Yeah. But instead, this time he spends his time writing a book in jail, a book called I, William.
01:37:14
Speaker
um Published that. Will I Am? No. And just as ah an aside to mention that he his other nickname was The Actor for all his different roles he played. Oh, really?
01:37:31
Speaker
It's funny. Yeah. He's a chameleon. Yeah.
01:37:37
Speaker
a Okay, so 17 years after that, they overturn his two life sentences and the 105 years due to good behavior. And this, I guess, is because he's also ill with emphysema and he needed surgery on his leg arteries.
01:37:55
Speaker
Oh. I don't know. So December 1969, the Sutton is released from Attica State Prison.
01:38:06
Speaker
And when he heard that he was getting released, he responded, thank you, your honor, God bless you, and wept as he was let out of the court building. He's too old to escape prison now.
01:38:19
Speaker
Yeah. He's just like, yeah, just want to live. um But next year, does an ad for a new Britain-Connecticut bank and trust company's photo credit card program.
01:38:38
Speaker
I know he does like a commercial for this bank. Which, um, there's the only other details is in this quote that talks about his life after prison.
01:38:50
Speaker
After his release, Sutton delivered lectures on prison reform and consulted with banks on theft deterrent techniques. He made a television commercial for New Britain the Bank and Trust Company in Connecticut for their credit card with picture identification on it.
01:39:03
Speaker
um so it's a pretty new technology at the time maybe um his lines were they call it the face card now when i say i'm willie sutton people believe me
01:39:16
Speaker
love such good advertising that's so funny that's like um a level of that guy well now they're calling into question whether or not he actually did these crimes the guy that like um to catch me if you can that guy can't remember oh okay he was like that's based off yeah yeah now they're like a lot of people are saying he might have been exaggerating a lot of the crimes and stuff he's claiming um and stuff but i feel like that of like going to work with like the government or going to work with the people you were ripping off now it helps the bank yeah
01:39:59
Speaker
Yeah, but it does, it does happen. It's giving me ah vibes of, you know, that, like, CEO and whatever at the Coldplay concert that was caught cheating there. and Oh, yeah.
01:40:13
Speaker
And then, so Coldplay, so Chris Martin, and then that company that he worked for whatever, like turned around and hired Gwyneth Paltrow to do a PR ad for them or whatever. I thought that was funny. I was like, Oh, smart. Lean into it. You're getting the press anyway.
01:40:36
Speaker
Might as well make it Well, apparently good apparently, whoever was married or whatever, they were actually in midst of a separation or something. So, like, it might not have actually been an affair.
01:40:48
Speaker
But, like, still, you, as a CEO, should not be dating the head of your HR department. Yeah, I was gonna say, I didn't hear this um separation angle. Maybe that's someone trying to put out something for some damage control.
01:41:01
Speaker
I think so. But I'm, like, still not a great look to, like, be there with. and an employee like that and just don't be so fucking weird when the camera hits you guys that's all you had to do yeah the world is looking for something to be viral that's not horrible at all times yes absolutely not horrible for us yeah yeah
01:41:29
Speaker
yeah i need to look at um more seal compilation videos like somebody sent into sinister hood which was like seals flopping around and doing silly stuff it's just yeah fix your fix your algorithm make it funny animal videos instead of tragic world news or something yes or like and then well i heard a podcast and they called the seals um chub marines so made shock burning I know when there's like the term for when they come up out of the water to like bask in the sun. It's like bellying up or laying up or something.
01:42:02
Speaker
It just sounds like, yeah you know, curling up on the couch and being a couch potato. It's so great. That's awesome. you um Okay. So he did die November um in springhill florida We ended up in Florida.
01:42:24
Speaker
Oh, no. Connection. Florida man. He was 79. But his legacy lives on. So this is kind of fun fact. He has a law named after him that's used in medicine education.
01:42:37
Speaker
So Sutton's Law, ah it's called, ah so it refers... Yes. Okay. So it refers to when he was supposedly asked by a reporter why he robbed banks, he replied allegedly because that's where the money is.
01:42:53
Speaker
um Which he later refuted saying that, but he became like famous for it. So it said um the quote evolved into Sutton's law, which is often invoked to medical students as a metaphor for emphasizing the most likely diagnosis rather than wasting time and money investigating every conceivable full possibility. So kind of like Murphy's law.
01:43:14
Speaker
The simplest explanation the correct one, I guess.
01:43:19
Speaker
if It sounds like a Sutton. No.
01:43:24
Speaker
Interesting. But he said in his autobiography, so maybe that was the I, William one, um it said Sutton denied originating the pithy rejoinder.
01:43:36
Speaker
And he said, he wrote, the irony of using a bank robber's maxim as an instrument for teaching medicine is compounded I will now confess by the fact that I never said it. The credit belongs to some enterprising reporter who apparently felt a need to fill out his copy.
01:43:51
Speaker
I can't even remember where first read it It just seemed to appear one day and then it was everywhere. If anybody had asked me, I'd probably have said it. That's what almost anybody would say. it couldn't be more obvious.
01:44:04
Speaker
Yeah. Like, I'm a robber. I rob places that have money. You wouldn't see me robbing a place that has no money. Ask a stupid question. a stupid answer yeah get a stupid answer. say...
01:44:17
Speaker
um but he did also say Okay, I think this one's from the book too, and like they're saying he did say it. Why did I rob banks?
01:44:29
Speaker
Because I enjoyed it. I loved it. I was more alive when I was inside a bank, robbing it than at any other time in my life. I enjoyed everything about it so much that one or two weeks later, I'd be out looking for the next job.
01:44:40
Speaker
But to me, the money was the chips. That's all.
01:44:44
Speaker
And that's Willie Sutton. He just likes the adrenaline. Exactly.
Podcast Plans and Listener Engagement
01:44:50
Speaker
He is. He's an adrenaline junkie. That's why he had to keep plotting and escaping and icing.
01:44:56
Speaker
ah Yeah. Oh. Yeah, i thought he was fun.
01:45:03
Speaker
Yeah. Not too bad. Yeah, when you get two nicknames.
01:45:12
Speaker
Well, that's all I got. That was fun. Hopefully you guys enjoyed it. Yes. Not so much yours.
01:45:22
Speaker
But it was a good story. yeah I was like, I retract my statement. Yes, we didn't. We found it interesting.
01:45:33
Speaker
and know it is. It is an interesting case. Like, wow. um And then next time, we are moving on to perfectly paranormal for Valerian.
01:45:47
Speaker
Spooky stories. Yeah, I mean, spooky stories. Some creepy stories. Whatever we find, run across to share for Halloween. Keep it a little easier episode. If anyone wants to send castlesandcryptidsatgmail.com Send them all in.
01:46:06
Speaker
Creepy ghost story if you have story you really like. Anything. Yeah. um Yeah, I love listener stories. I'll hear them on other podcasts and sometimes it's just like someone thinks they, you know, maybe got a sign from ah a loved one that's passed and, you know, just stuff like that. It doesn't have to be anything like you think you heard a Bigfoot.
01:46:29
Speaker
because like But I bet we all wish we had a story like that. but Probably. No. Sleep paralysis. We did have that one listener story on our 100th? 150th? Yeah.
01:46:42
Speaker
Something like that. Love it. Love to see it. Love to see you guys listening. And um yeah, spooky stories. That should be fun.
01:46:54
Speaker
Yes. o not For Halloween. Yeah, I can't believe. Halloween and then it'll be Christmas before you know it. What the hell? Year the Snake will be done.
01:47:09
Speaker
My work already has Valentine's Day stuff. Like... Oh my god. Not just the Christmas priest, but the Valentine's Day. It's like, haven't even had Thanksgiving here, haven't had Halloween yet, haven't even had Christmas, and we have Valentine's Day.
01:47:26
Speaker
You're like five holidays ahead. Oh my god. Calm down. Right? Who do you think you are Party City? I'm just Just sell all the holidays all year round then, okay? Spirit to Halloween turns to The spirit of Christmas turns to Valentine's Day adventures.
01:47:50
Speaker
Hey, the way some people decorate their high houses now. Oh, man. I saw a really cool one on Reddit. It looked like Monster House. It looked like they gave it like almost like it where it looked like teeth coming down from the eaves with lights and stuff.
01:48:06
Speaker
Yeah. And then with the lights off, it was like all lit from the inside. But even for all the he like all the holidays now, people go all out. like I don't remember a few years ago there being such thing as Valentine's Day decorations.
01:48:21
Speaker
And like now it's crazy. Yeah, people love like a decorative hand towel. Decorative hand towels, decor, everything. like Kitchy housewares. Yeah. yeah Yeah.
01:48:37
Speaker
Um, and yeah, make sure to check back out on our Patreon. I know we were talking about trying to do another or do with like a Halloween, um taste test.
01:48:48
Speaker
We've got some spooky looking glasses and stuff. And today I picked up pumpkin spiced wine from a Canadian wine. Oh, that's interesting.
01:49:01
Speaker
yeah ah Say maybe when I get back. We plan a day where we can do a little taste test or something. A little cocktail party. Sounds fun.
01:49:11
Speaker
Yeah. Maybe some snacks or whatever. Watch a scary movie. That would be nice. Sounds good. Well, until next time.
01:49:24
Speaker
Keep it cryptic. Keep it cryptic. I was like, is she going say Keep spookily cryptic. Creep it cryptic. Oops. you Creep it. cryp That's really hard to say. is actually. Oh my Crypt it, keep it.
01:49:44
Speaker
Crypt keeper. Tales from the... Alright. Bye bye. but i
01:50:18
Speaker
Thank you for listening to Castles Encrypted. We love all our listeners and appreciate every subscriber, every new review, every listen, rate, and download. Our music is by Kobe off air and our cover art is by Antonio Garcia.
01:50:33
Speaker
We are also a proud member of dark cast network where you can find the best and spookiest of all indie podcasts. Follow us on social media where we are at castles and cryptids on mostly all of the things now, including Tik TOK check out our bonus content on PATREON.
01:50:49
Speaker
cryptid clashes, video mini-sodes of your hosts making asses of themselves, ask me anything, quizzes, other special episodes, and more. Starting at just $2 a month, you can get one to two extra episodes, depending on your level.
01:51:05
Speaker
We produce, edit, and research everything ourselves, and any support you can lend helps us to keep it cryptic.