Transcript
Speaker: What does it take to get beyond the damage of words?
Speaker: I'm Katrina Collier.
Speaker: Join me each week as I explore what it takes to step into a happier future.
Speaker: My guests are sharing their stories of when they realized that they needed help and what it took to take that first step so that you leave inspired and maybe even start on your own path to self-love, care, compassion, and of course, happiness.
Speaker: So without further ado, let's hear their stories.
Speaker: Kim Lockenberg, welcome to Beyond the Damage of Words podcast.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: So great to see your face.
Speaker: Because we haven't spoken in a couple of years, which is shocking.
Speaker: A couple is a little bit too much, but at least a year.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: COVID was done.
Speaker: COVID was done.
Speaker: We talked a lot during COVID.
Speaker: Yes, because you were in my mastermind.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: That saved me.
Speaker: What a horrid time.
Speaker: I don't want to think back to not that you being the mastermind.
Speaker: I mean, they've just been on a roller coaster.
Speaker: Anyway, tell me, we launched straight in on this podcast.
Speaker: What happened?
Speaker: How did you end up seeking help?
Speaker: What prompted you to get some help and what did you do?
Speaker: And spill the beans.
Speaker: Well, where do I start?
Speaker: So, no, because 1970, no.
Speaker: Well, that was actually, well, around that point I was born.
Speaker: No.
Speaker: So actually the first time I ran into, uh, I was actually sent by my, my specialist.
Speaker: So I had cancer as a child.
Speaker: I was two.
Speaker: Um, and it was a very rare form of children's cancer.
Speaker: So I had it at my, um, private parts, let's say, um, um,
Speaker: And when I was impurity, like 16, 17, I was completely all over the place.
Speaker: And my specialist in the hospital, my oncologist said,
Speaker: Like, this is not good.
Speaker: You survive.
Speaker: There's nothing going on with you.
Speaker: Just you need to figure out how this is your life.
Speaker: And I felt really guilty that I survived and other kids didn't and I was healthy.
Speaker: So I went, that was my first.
Speaker: That's huge to carry as a toddler.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Yeah, when I was 17, I went to a psychologist who was specialized in children with cancer.
Speaker: So that actually gave me a place where I was like, it's okay that I survived.
Speaker: It's okay.
Speaker: But I can tell you the response from my friends was like, you're going to a psychologist?
Speaker: You're not crazy.
Speaker: Bloody stigma.
Speaker: Why would you go to a psychologist?
Speaker: You're 17.
Speaker: There's nothing wrong with you.
Speaker: I was like, because I was really open about it.
Speaker: Like I have to go to Amsterdam, which is about a two hour train ride every week to speak to this woman.
Speaker: So that was actually my first time.
Speaker: Interesting that stigma, isn't it?
Speaker: I had Matt Jessup's been on talking about that same thing, but you're not crazy.
Speaker: I was like, well, I didn't say I was.
Speaker: I just don't feel great.
Speaker: I want to feel better.
Speaker: Something's wrong.
Speaker: I want to feel right.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: I was running into walls.
Speaker: And, um,
Speaker: So it gave me a really good insight what my life had been up so far.
Speaker: But, well, you know me quite well, so I was very strict.
Speaker: Like, okay, so I'm going to this therapist.
Speaker: And after about two years, I was like, yeah, we're done.
Speaker: I'm like, now I'm safe for the rest of my life.
Speaker: I'm going to be happy for the rest of my life.
Speaker: That was a big bummer.
Speaker: That was a big bummer to find out.
Speaker: Yeah, when you realized, actually, no, damn it, I've got to go back occasionally.
Speaker: What was the...
Speaker: They better continue as we get in our way to help us.
Speaker: But what was it like at 17?
Speaker: Did you feel scared to open up or actually you were quite confident to talk to this person?
Speaker: Well, for me it was actually eye-opening because it was someone who actually knew people who were in the same situation as me.
Speaker: I never talked to someone who was a survivor, which is the name in the Netherlands for children who survived cancer.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And so it was, it was like coming home.
Speaker: Like it was okay to be sad about it.
Speaker: It was okay to be scared.
Speaker: Um, and I already knew that I was a bit different because when I was going to school, the first few years, um, in primary school, I had to go back to the hospital every other few months and then every other year and every, so I was always, but lucky for me, my parents were really open about it.
Speaker: So everybody,
Speaker: who knows me from when I was young, knew I had cancer.
Speaker: So there was no stigma around it in our village or in our town.
Speaker: Which is so good because that tendency to clam up and hide it and not – and actually even at that time, because we're similar ages, aren't we, as well, there was a lot more climbing up than there is now.
Speaker: I was diagnosed in 75, so my parents actually lost 60% of their friends because of me, which was like –
Speaker: Yeah, because it was the big... They obviously weren't friends.
Speaker: No, because, well, I don't know how you say it in English, but in Dutch, it's de grote kaas, the big C, it would be in English.
Speaker: But I only found out that that was happening in that time and age, when I was about 15.
Speaker: Because for us, it was all normal.
Speaker: Everybody, even my brothers, still had their friends over in our house, even though I was on chemo.
Speaker: So in that sense, we already opened up to other people that it's okay to be ill or that it's okay to go through therapy.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: My mom actually started to do therapy herself, different kinds of therapy, and turned into a therapist when I was seven.
Speaker: Amazing, isn't it?
Speaker: So maybe that's what inspired her in.
Speaker: And so if you hadn't had it, she wouldn't have found her calling because she loves it, doesn't she?
Speaker: She loves it.
Speaker: I mean, she just turned 84 in December and she's still practicing.
Speaker: She's still practicing.
Speaker: Not like commercially anymore, but she still has about like six clients and some of them already for over 40 years.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And you kind of like, you don't have to retire when you do something like that.
Speaker: I have no plans on retiring.
Speaker: I'm going to
Speaker: If you're enjoying what you do.
Speaker: Flight into my grave having finished, like, living to the end.
Speaker: If you enjoy what you're doing, why would you?
Speaker: Why would you?
Speaker: Why would you retire?
Speaker: You're helping people.
Speaker: It's quite amazing, isn't it?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So if I can bring up something you said before you came on, because I just think this is really interesting as well.
Speaker: Through that, so as open as they were, though, we had a conversation about
Speaker: your brother's got to be brothers and you got to be a girl.
Speaker: Oh yeah, definitely.
Speaker: If I would go to my dad's, my parents divorced when, well, split up when I was about six and,
Speaker: If I would visit my dad, oh, it was the best decision they ever made, seriously.
Speaker: I know, but still, still a lot of change in your childhood.
Speaker: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker: They've obviously done a great job of communicating openly with you, but still a lot of change.
Speaker: Yeah, so I was in hospital for over a year.
Speaker: Then I came back and then within two, three years they split up.
Speaker: But getting back to the story, so when I would visit my dad over the weekends, I had to wear a skirt or a dress.
Speaker: Not for my mom.
Speaker: My mom is like, hey, dress however you want to, but your dad demands you're wearing a dress or a skirt.
Speaker: That's so funny.
Speaker: I just looked at a photo of me from the 70s.
Speaker: It happens to be sitting here and just saying, what am I wearing?
Speaker: I'm wearing trousers.
Speaker: I'm wearing jeans.
Speaker: On the other hand, though, on the other hand, my dad is 90.
Speaker: Yeah, no, but my dad passed in early 2022 at 92.
Speaker: So, similar.
Speaker: But still, dad wouldn't have made me wear skirts.
Speaker: Oh, yeah, my dad was very old-fashioned.
Speaker: Well, he still is, but he hates my short hair.
Speaker: Well, my dad hardly recognizes me.
Speaker: So it's like, where's Kimmy here?
Speaker: Like, I'm here.
Speaker: Oh, yeah, you are, you are.
Speaker: And then he's like, oh, he's crying that I'm there.
Speaker: But no, no, but it's, so he was very typical.
Speaker: So how did it feel when you were having to wear a skirt and you're having to wear, like,
Speaker: be a girl?
Speaker: I mean, you're like me, you're a bit of a tomboy, aren't you?
Speaker: So what was it like?
Speaker: So it was just the system.
Speaker: So I was just following the system because, and this is, yeah, so I grew up in a hospital.
Speaker: I mean, I was two years old when I came in and I was in that period of time.
Speaker: I was at home quite often, but not all the time.
Speaker: And in hospitals, there's a structure.
Speaker: So it's in the morning you go to your bath, then you get your medication, then you go to bed.
Speaker: It's not that I remember everything, but I remember like spots and blank.
Speaker: Structures.
Speaker: Yeah, I can still draw out the hospital and blah, blah, blah.
Speaker: I bet if you smelled the smell, you'd be straight back there.
Speaker: No, and so I love the smell of hospitals.
Speaker: Oh, you must have been very nurtured there then.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And I said, well, in a month I go back to the hospital for some checkups, but I love it there.
Speaker: Then my husband doesn't like hospitals as much, but he goes with me and he's like, I don't understand why you like this.
Speaker: Well, it's kind of my second home.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But so for me, that was just structured how it was.
Speaker: And when I was with my mom, I could wear whatever I had.
Speaker: I was a Bibi Longstrom all the time.
Speaker: I went to school with like my ponytails like this.
Speaker: So how did that impact your identity then?
Speaker: Well, to be funny and fair, I didn't think it impacted my life as much as the past year.
Speaker: So the past year, and lucky for us, it's more and more normal to talk about your mental health or what you're going through or how you feel.
Speaker: And, yeah, as with my mom, I was her –
Speaker: that's bunny for a lot of years, but I'm not.
Speaker: So, so I'm quite spiritual.
Speaker: And I was like, yeah, I didn't know something's going on.
Speaker: And what I found out now is that I was so structured in social acknowledgement.
Speaker: Like, like this is how everybody expecting me to act, expecting me to wear it.
Speaker: So I did create my own identity on how I dress and how I am.
Speaker: How it should be.
Speaker: But not who you are.
Speaker: Well, so that's where I'm still working on.
Speaker: Like, okay, this is definitely who I am.
Speaker: But a lot of things were taught.
Speaker: Like how to... I don't like big crowds of people, but I was taught to be there.
Speaker: And you just behave.
Speaker: And as a child, I would always cover myself with my mom's skirt.
Speaker: I was always wondering about it.
Speaker: I was just scared for the doctor or I was just scared of other people.
Speaker: Now I know that I've been taught to step out in the open and to be who I am or who I was, but to be...
Speaker: outgoing, to be friendly, to be extrovert.
Speaker: And I'm not a very big extrovert, to be honest.
Speaker: Not at all.
Speaker: A lot of people think so.
Speaker: Well, you know me a little bit better.
Speaker: But if you would ask in general, people say, like, that's such an outgoing girl.
Speaker: Like, no, not.
Speaker: It's funny because – and the whole world of work is set up for extroverts, isn't it?
Speaker: Because before we – again, before you came on, you said like – and I think of you and I think of us, we're at the bar, you know, we're drinking and carrying on.
Speaker: But both of us are stepping into our extroversion and actually because we're both highly sensitive, actually the last thing we want to do is walk into that environment for too long.
Speaker: Like I can do it for a period of time.
Speaker: Yeah, and it's also depending –
Speaker: And also it's depending on what is the reason or who, I mean, if, if, if we would go to one of our conferences where we, we, we normally would meet and we would meet up with certain people, I would go two days in a row.
Speaker: I don't care if I just get to see them again or, but.
Speaker: When it's your tribe and you love them, it's very different energy compared to that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And it's also feeling like, is this energy okay for me right now?
Speaker: Or, of course, I have my tricks.
Speaker: Nobody will notice at that point.
Speaker: But still, what if they would notice?
Speaker: That's just me.
Speaker: I'm here because I'm the host of this thing.
Speaker: But now I'm going home.
Speaker: I put you in this bar.
Speaker: Have fun.
Speaker: See you tomorrow.
Speaker: I'm going off to bed.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I always, they always kill me.
Speaker: I think with SourceCon is the one I really remember absolutely dying afterwards because I'd been full extrovert for like two and a half days or something.
Speaker: And I went into a hotel room and I didn't come out for 24 hours.
Speaker: Oh, well, I got food.
Speaker: But other than that, I don't want to talk to anyone.
Speaker: I don't want to see anyone.
Speaker: I'm just getting food.
Speaker: And other than that,
Speaker: I was exhausted.
Speaker: But people do have that perception, isn't it, when they see, particularly because they would see us around people that we know and love and therefore it's easier to be.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: But that's also the nice trick, of course, because if you're with your friends and you're being there and it's with SourceCon last time in Amsterdam, it's my hometown.
Speaker: Same with Sosuk.
Speaker: It's my hometown.
Speaker: So I know the area.
Speaker: If I don't feel like it, I'll just go for a walk outside or have lunch somewhere else.
Speaker: So, and yeah, I'm with a lot of friends.
Speaker: So people look up to you, like they do know such, so many people.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But they come to me because I'm already there.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And then when we go abroad to other stuff, I always look up to people I love and who are my friends and then,
Speaker: It goes from there.
Speaker: But also, no, but you remember, well, you know, this same as me.
Speaker: If you go to a conference or you go to certain events where either you want to go or you have to go to, you prepare.
Speaker: At least I prepare.
Speaker: I do my exercises, be in my zone.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And yeah, if the vibe's good, then I still have a lot of energy after two days.
Speaker: If the vibe is a little bit like, ooh, yeah.
Speaker: then I'm gone.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I must admit one of the big ones I learned, and actually I was telling you, we chatted a lot before we came, hit record.
Speaker: We should have hit record earlier.
Speaker: But I was saying one of the ones I learned from Isabel Gatherer, who's also been a guest just recently, was the white light and the golden light.
Speaker: And if I don't clear my light, so I just have a shower and white lights, I'm just clearing off everyone else's energy.
Speaker: And if I don't wrap up in that golden light before I go near anybody these days, I can really feel it.
Speaker: And I think it's interesting the more that you become energy aware.
Speaker: Elizabeth Pru calls it energy responsible, which I love.
Speaker: The more you become aware of that, isn't it?
Speaker: The more you're like, I really do want to just energetically, because we're all energetic beings, even the scientists.
Speaker: But even if you look at the phrase, I'm cocooning, which obviously was because of, I think, the cocoon bats.
Speaker: But what I do, if I'm a little bit out of touch, I go, a lot of people go with a blanket on their couch, right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But if you do it in a certain way, it's like really, well, yeah, that also.
Speaker: Go in.
Speaker: You go in.
Speaker: Yeah, but it feels safe.
Speaker: I'm like how you do it with babies, like when they get born, you, yeah.
Speaker: Swaddle?
Speaker: Swaddle.
Speaker: Swaddle, yeah.
Speaker: Something like that.
Speaker: Well, yeah, I don't know either.
Speaker: But if I did that.
Speaker: You wrap them up tightly.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I wrap myself up really tightly.
Speaker: And then within an hour, my energy levels go up.
Speaker: So it's really, for me, that's so important.
Speaker: You're also going quiet?
Speaker: Oh, yeah, I can get really quiet.
Speaker: So how were you when you first...
Speaker: got quiet and you went still.
Speaker: How are you with the internal dialogue?
Speaker: Because, you know, we do know that we have with our gifts we have a lot of internal dialogue.
Speaker: So how were you the first?
Speaker: Because some people are really scared to be still.
Speaker: And I can't think how many times this has come up on this podcast.
Speaker: It's so funny that you're asking this right now because when I was young and we still lived in our first house, there was this little window up in the wall.
Speaker: And I would climb in there.
Speaker: And hung a curtain outside.
Speaker: And I just was folding up in there and put some fairy tales on or music.
Speaker: I loved music already by then.
Speaker: And I would have hourly conversations with myself.
Speaker: I would just talk to, or to the ducks outside.
Speaker: I mean, we were having a lot of animals.
Speaker: I had a duck.
Speaker: I had a crow.
Speaker: I had another crow.
Speaker: Another dog.
Speaker: And, of course, the dogs and cats and everything else.
Speaker: But I would talk to everyone.
Speaker: That's awesome.
Speaker: Well, my dog actually does sometimes, but not necessarily.
Speaker: Badger's got very vocal at like 4 a.m.
Speaker: these days.
Speaker: But anyway.
Speaker: Oh, nice, nice.
Speaker: You go, Badger.
Speaker: But, no, for me, of course, you talk internally and then it's in your mind.
Speaker: But I would have like when I would cycle home from school.
Speaker: Yeah, I'm Dutch.
Speaker: We cycle.
Speaker: We don't take buses or trains.
Speaker: We just cycle.
Speaker: It's terrifying when you're a tourist there.
Speaker: Like it's like.
Speaker: Oh, no, I think honestly, especially in Amsterdam.
Speaker: I mean, seriously, tourists need to have licenses right now.
Speaker: Because also for anyone who's living in England or Australia, it's the other side as well.
Speaker: The wrong side, you mean?
Speaker: No, we're on the right side.
Speaker: You're on the other side.
Speaker: That's not easy.
Speaker: It's very easy.
Speaker: Anyway, we've gone off topic.
Speaker: We've gone off topic.
Speaker: No, but it actually, for me, even with studying, if I say something out loud to myself, then it's real.
Speaker: It might sound really crazy, but for me it absolutely works.
Speaker: If I would study languages and my mom always taught me, like, if you hold your three fingers together and then you say it out loud, then it's stuck in your brain.
Speaker: It's how your brain sides work.
Speaker: How?
Speaker: How?
Speaker: I need to know how to do that because genuine I'm trying to learn French and I just don't.
Speaker: Oh, just those fingers.
Speaker: Those fingers and then focus.
Speaker: Do I have to hold them up like that or can I hold them anywhere?
Speaker: You can hold them anywhere.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: No, it makes another connection between your left and right brain.
Speaker: God, that's amazing.
Speaker: I'm trying to learn French and I'm just hopeless at it.
Speaker: I should be learning something useful like that's in more countries, like Spanish or something.
Speaker: But, yeah, anyway, I'm going to do that.
Speaker: French is.
Speaker: So interesting thing that you talk about this because I think, and I rant about this quite a lot, that people are getting misdiagnosed because they're admitting they have a rich internal dialogue.
Speaker: I've never once thought anything of my rich internal dialogue.
Speaker: In fact, I was just shocked to hear some people don't have one.
Speaker: And actually, I just love the fact you went in and you were having a conversation.
Speaker: As long as the conversation is not destructive, I think it's normal.
Speaker: Yeah, I've never been saying to me like, you're shite or you're not doing well.
Speaker: I can get really mad at myself if something doesn't work out how I want it to work out.
Speaker: But that's just who I am.
Speaker: But don't you go into the, so why didn't it work out?
Speaker: Don't you then start going through the analyzing?
Speaker: Oh, yeah, because I'm like, oh, yeah, because I should have started earlier.
Speaker: But, yeah, okay, this is how I work.
Speaker: So that's, yeah, I'll figure it out.
Speaker: And then it works out in the end because, but, hey, why did I start earlier?
Speaker: So for me, I would never discuss that with a therapist, I guess, because for me it's just normal.
Speaker: No, I've just, exactly, but there are a lot of people who seem to be like, because you have a rich internal dialogue, your ADHD, here's a pill.
Speaker: And I'm just like, I have a really rich internal dialogue.
Speaker: Anyone listening to the podcast knows this.
Speaker: I have entire conversations in my head.
Speaker: But on the other hand, so for me, it's just so normal that I would never have brought it up through therapy.
Speaker: Good point.
Speaker: So maybe that people who were diagnosed, that for them is a scary thing.
Speaker: For me, it's just something I do.
Speaker: I love it.
Speaker: It's funny that you mention it.
Speaker: But it's also depending on... So I would go into what you were saying before.
Speaker: I would then go into the whole, so why is it I always do everything last minute?
Speaker: I mean, I was quite regimented as a child.
Speaker: Has it got anything to do with that?
Speaker: I would literally just start having this very curious, kind conversation.
Speaker: It wasn't kind in the past.
Speaker: That's the joy of the work I've done.
Speaker: But that...
Speaker: am I like that?
Speaker: That's really interesting.
Speaker: And just keep drilling.
Speaker: I'm working on different aspects at the moment.
Speaker: So for instance, the funny thing is, I'm now having my second burnout.
Speaker: I had a burnout 2009.
Speaker: And I was at the hospital for a checkup, which now I have
Speaker: every two years, but normally I go back every year to check up on the late effects of chemotherapy.
Speaker: But I was sitting and this was a different doctor than I normally have.
Speaker: And I was like, yeah, I'm so pissed off.
Speaker: Look, how do I get a burnout?
Speaker: I mean, and everybody's like, you a burnout?
Speaker: I cannot imagine.
Speaker: And she said like, she started laughing and I was like, why are you laughing?
Speaker: This is absolutely not funny.
Speaker: It's like, you do know that 75%
Speaker: of children who were diagnosed with cancer between the ages of zero and four got burned out.
Speaker: I was like, what?
Speaker: I said, the reason being because you were taught in your basis to go over your boundaries all the time to survive.
Speaker: So you're constantly in survival mode.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Since I know that, you will now think like, how the hell did you get up in a new burnout?
Speaker: But, no, that's because I – Oh, no, because you didn't learn at the first burnout.
Speaker: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker: I didn't listen to myself.
Speaker: There's no judgment here.
Speaker: No, so I was so programmed to not listen to my inner voice.
Speaker: Well, but no, but the first time you had the burnout, you didn't learn the lesson, which is no criticism of you whatsoever.
Speaker: No, but also what I didn't learn, I learned enough.
Speaker: Well, the boundary setting I learned quite a bit.
Speaker: but it goes into the background gradually.
Speaker: But also at that point I fought to get better so I would be able to work, which is a different schematic than what I'm doing now.
Speaker: Now I'm getting better to feel better and to choose what I want to do with my life.
Speaker: So it's a different getting better.
Speaker: It's so different.
Speaker: It feels different as well.
Speaker: I got better for work as opposed to I'm getting better because I want to feel better.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: I've got goosebumps.
Speaker: But that's such a – it seems small, but it's a huge mindset.
Speaker: Huge mindset.
Speaker: It's huge.
Speaker: It was always about to fill.
Speaker: You will never set your boundaries fully because you'll be like, well, it's not impacting work so I can let that boundary slip.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: I'm not letting that boundary slip.
Speaker: But when it's for your life and what you want to do and how you want, those boundaries will be firm.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So now it was a whole situation.
Speaker: So we had COVID.
Speaker: My dad, my dad was diagnosed.
Speaker: I'm so excited for you.
Speaker: I'm like, yeah, but now it's like, yeah, my dad was diagnosed with Alzheimer.
Speaker: Um, very aggressive form.
Speaker: I was working abroad.
Speaker: My brothers didn't want to help out that much.
Speaker: So I had to do everything.
Speaker: At least that's how I felt.
Speaker: Plus my work.
Speaker: Plus, oh, I have a family to run.
Speaker: Oh, and someone else's family to run actually as well.
Speaker: So with work, I came back from Abu Dhabi and I was like, the next six months, I'm taking it easy because I feel I'm slipping up.
Speaker: Never thought, my body never thought of the non-work related stress.
Speaker: Which is enormous.
Speaker: And there were no boundaries in place.
Speaker: There was no respect coming towards you.
Speaker: You know, your brothers weren't stepping up.
Speaker: All that is like boundary, slip, boundary, boundary.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: And as a child you'd been taught to be a girl, which usually means people please, which means help everybody, which means your priorities go out the window and we can't work like that.
Speaker: We burn out.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: Oh, I'm so glad you've got this time now to fix it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And also because my mind with people, they just love it.
Speaker: Don't they?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: No, but what I, what I, what I messaged you earlier as well is for everyone who is doubtful about therapy or whatever, just try different things, which, which you feel happy with.
Speaker: I mean, I, I, my mom being a therapist, I,
Speaker: You don't want to know how many therapies I've tried.
Speaker: I did aura healing.
Speaker: I did with brushes.
Speaker: Was that aura healing?
Speaker: Your aura?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Fantastic.
Speaker: When I was 11?
Speaker: I started really young with that kind of stuff.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But, you know, I was saying white light.
Speaker: It's the same thing, isn't it clear?
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: No, but it's so if people hear EMDR, then they always think of the beeps.
Speaker: And I'm like, the beeps?
Speaker: I've never had it with beeps.
Speaker: I thought it was eye movement.
Speaker: Yeah, so there's so many different.
Speaker: And I was with a lady and she was amazing.
Speaker: And then she stopped because it was too heavy.
Speaker: Because she was doing actually more than just the tapping.
Speaker: And then I could stay.
Speaker: And I was like, yeah.
Speaker: Because I only went to her every year.
Speaker: Oh, sorry.
Speaker: Are you talking this one?
Speaker: No, no.
Speaker: On the knees.
Speaker: She did on the knees.
Speaker: Oh, okay.
Speaker: Because that's EFT, isn't it?
Speaker: I love that.
Speaker: Yeah, no.
Speaker: But she would definitely take all the tension out of your body.
Speaker: She would drag it out of you.
Speaker: It was so intense.
Speaker: And we loved working with each other.
Speaker: And she wasn't letting go of it.
Speaker: Sounds like she was keeping it.
Speaker: Well, she was really good, but when you've done it for 30 years, you're done.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You're done.
Speaker: But I wonder if she wasn't energetically, because I say this to my chiropractor a lot when he's like, do you energetically protect with all these people that you touch?
Speaker: She was taking the energy out of you.
Speaker: Was Sheila releasing it?
Speaker: I wonder.
Speaker: That's why I don't treat people anymore.
Speaker: So I can do, well, the basic treatment my mom does, I can do exactly the same.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I used to do it when I was younger and I would get so sick.
Speaker: I would have headaches.
Speaker: What's your mum doing?
Speaker: Oh, so she does body work.
Speaker: So because she did so many different kinds of things, she has her own therapy.
Speaker: So it could be hypnotherapy.
Speaker: It's just what your body's asking for.
Speaker: So it starts at, she started with Touch for Health.
Speaker: So it's acupressure.
Speaker: It's your body actually answers the questions.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So when someone has a headache.
Speaker: Oh, sorry.
Speaker: I didn't mean to interrupt again.
Speaker: If you're doing that and you're touching people, no wonder you've done a bit much.
Speaker: No, but especially with me being high sensitive, it's not smart to do.
Speaker: But I would, even if I do want to help out one of the boys or something, I would wash my hands up to over my elbows.
Speaker: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker: Otherwise I'm getting like.
Speaker: Yeah, I don't want your stuff.
Speaker: Thank you very much.
Speaker: But I think I also love the message that you've given, which we've had a few times through this, which is good, that keep trying.
Speaker: Like, you know, I've written out 12 years of completely different things that I've done.
Speaker: It's like I think sometimes people go to one coach or one therapist and they think, well, that's – no, it's like but you might – Yeah, I'm working with – You mightn't be right or they're not getting through, like, your defenses or whatever.
Speaker: There might be a reason.
Speaker: Yeah, so when I had my first burnout and it was – I was in a real bad place.
Speaker: I weighed 40 kilos.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: not even, I think, 45.
Speaker: Yeah, 45.
Speaker: So they said, like, you need to go through therapist today, otherwise we will admit you somewhere.
Speaker: I was like, nothing going on.
Speaker: So I went to see a psychologist, and after the third session, I was like, dude, what are we doing here?
Speaker: You make money like water.
Speaker: And I'm telling you the story I've been telling for the past 31 years, 41 years, I have to say.
Speaker: I'm getting a bit old.
Speaker: I'm like, you're not helping me and I'm not helping you.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Money wise.
Speaker: I was like, this is not working.
Speaker: And then I changed to, uh, don't know, autonomy, which is more body and mind work, which for me works not necessarily for everyone, but so I changed it.
Speaker: And now I'm working with a guy here in my village, which is a minute walk, which is no pressure.
Speaker: So, Oh, I have to go through therapy.
Speaker: I have to go by car.
Speaker: And I'm working with a psychologist for the stress in my brain.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So it's on two sides.
Speaker: Amazing.
Speaker: And it's almost the same kind of training I'm doing.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But one is for my body to heal, and the one is for my brain to get more easy going on myself.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: To have less stress in my brain so that I can function better.
Speaker: but it's, it's, it's so nice to have, and I don't have to go there.
Speaker: We do it digitally.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I used to work remote anyway.
Speaker: So why would I have to wait a year and a half for a diagnosis if I can do it?
Speaker: Oh,
Speaker: Video.
Speaker: It is amazing though.
Speaker: Like, you know, I used to go and see Michelle.
Speaker: Like Michelle Zellie was my first.
Speaker: And I went to, which is, you know, when I look at some of the stuff we did, which is good, but it can be done remotely.
Speaker: There's no reason that it can't be.
Speaker: And it's just, it's opening up such accessibility.
Speaker: And again, it's depending on who you are and what you want to get out of it.
Speaker: I am used to, I did,
Speaker: 15 conferences in two years of COVID.
Speaker: I did a year of training with you where with all these things, we needed to open up ourselves.
Speaker: So some people it's like, it's digital.
Speaker: I fully understand that's not everybody's cup of tea.
Speaker: But for me, it's actually kind of safe.
Speaker: Yeah, I actually think.
Speaker: I'm wondering if the introverted HSPs really like it.
Speaker: Because actually we don't have to go through the stress of getting somewhere.
Speaker: And then when we're all open, we don't have to go home on the train, which is what I used to have to do.
Speaker: Sometimes I'd be like still crying, which is fine.
Speaker: And I can sit how I want to sit.
Speaker: So now I'm actually, my knee is right under, my knee is right here.
Speaker: Ah, yep.
Speaker: So it's in your home where you're safe and especially with the psychologist about the ASS where it's kind of scared to learn something new about yourself, even though if it's autism or clairvoyant or whatever name it is, but I'm learning about myself.
Speaker: And, um, but it's, it's, it's funny that because what you're saying is absolutely true because you're, you're shown yourself.
Speaker: So you're completely open.
Speaker: If I would go out right after my therapy to go shopping here in the village, even I'm like, why?
Speaker: So I'm not doing that because all the tension from other people and I can see like, Oh, he's pissed off.
Speaker: Oh no, don't want to.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And, um,
Speaker: So I'm taking a few hours just to sit in my house or go for a walk with the dog.
Speaker: And then it embeds in your body more.
Speaker: I mean, my therapist needs to embed and then it works.
Speaker: So take a few hours.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You just described a HSP so beautifully, which is we can literally see almost like the vibration of other people.
Speaker: Like you can see whose mood they're in.
Speaker: It's quite amazing.
Speaker: If, because we're out of time.
Speaker: We always run out of time.
Speaker: If people want to get in contact with you to hear more, to discuss more, where would you prefer I sent people?
Speaker: LinkedIn?
Speaker: LinkedIn is fine.
Speaker: They can also email me at kim at thelockenbergs.com.
Speaker: I love your email.
Speaker: So cool.
Speaker: I love your company name.
Speaker: And still with my tattoo, matching tattoos.
Speaker: Yeah, okay.
Speaker: That's so good, isn't it?
Speaker: Thank you for that.
Speaker: That was absolutely amazing.
Speaker: To me, I know you're saying you're in burnout, but you actually seem so much more centred.
Speaker: So I think you're just heading in the most part of the path.
Speaker: Yeah, no, yeah.
Speaker: I'm getting there, but we still have a long way to go.
Speaker: It's a process.
Speaker: But I'm feeling a lot better.
Speaker: Process, yeah.
Speaker: My mum is still in process.
Speaker: Yeah, I mean, I've had a 12-year process and I definitely have got to that self-mastery point, but I still have stuff bubble up.
Speaker: I still have things pop up.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: But you learn to deal with them quicker.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: So anyway, thank you again.
Speaker: Thank you.
Speaker: Thank you for tuning in to Beyond the Damage of Words.
Speaker: How brave, how vulnerable.
Speaker: All to inspire listeners like you to take a step or inspire others to take a step.
Speaker: Imagine what healing we could create if we normalised this conversation.
Speaker: So please pass this on and of course, subscribe so we can do just that.
Speaker: Until next time, thank you.
