Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
With Randy Newman
69 Plays5 years ago
Kristi found the book "Questioning Evangelism" by Randy Newman to be a fantastic tool in her work ministering with university students. Today Andy and Kristi welcome Randy to the podcast to answers questions about questions with questions!
Randy Newman is Senior Fellow for Apologetics and Evangelism at the C.S. Lewis Institute near Washington D.C. He served for over 30 years with Campus Crusade for Christ and has taught at a number of seminaries. He has written five books and numerous articles, including his latest Unlikely Converts: Improbable Stories of Faith and What They Teach Us About Evangelism.
Support the show (https://www.solas-cpc.org/podcast-book-offer/)
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to 'Pep Talk' Podcast
00:00:09
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Pep Talk, the persuasive evangelism podcast. My name is Kristy Mayer and I'm joined by my fabulous co-host, Andy Bannister. Andy, hi. Fabulous. That's me, Kristy. I've had two cups of tea this morning. Definitely fabulous is the word.
00:00:24
Speaker
We'll keep going with that. And yeah, we have another fabulous person with us,
Introducing Guest Randy Newman
00:00:28
Speaker
actually. It is an immense privilege being joined by the one and only Randy Newman. Randy, hello. Hello. It's great to be with you. Thanks. It's great to have you on the show, Randy. Thanks for taking the time out of what I know is quite a busy schedule. Glad to be here. Very, very glad.
00:00:44
Speaker
We're so pleased you can
Randy's Background in Ministry and Current Roles
00:00:45
Speaker
join us. Randy, am I right in saying that you've had about over 30 years of campus ministry experience that you've taught at different seminaries? And are you currently at the C.S. Lewis Institute in Washington? What are you doing at the moment?
00:00:59
Speaker
You have all of that information correct. Yes, I am. What do we call me at this at the CS Lewis Institute? I'm a senior teaching fellow for evangelism and apologetics. And I do a bunch of teaching adjunct at some seminaries and also a small Christian college, Patrick Henry College.
00:01:19
Speaker
And yes, I was on the staff of Campus Crusade for 34 years until about five years ago, so I should be a lot smarter than I am, but this is what we have. That's wonderful. Wow.
00:01:35
Speaker
Now, Kristy, you were telling me as we were chatting earlier, of course, you yourself were involved in campus ministry, not quite for as long as Randy. I think you were doing it for about 32 years. I know, I aged well, right? I aged really, really well.
Impact of 'Questioning Evangelism' Book
00:01:48
Speaker
All of you, other products are available.
00:01:52
Speaker
And one of the things I remember you were saying to me was that when you were doing campus ministry and, you know, sharing your faith with students and things on campus, you know, Randy's book was a book that you used, questioning evangelism. And, you know, what was why was it so significant? And then I'll let you kind of ask Randy about it. What was it that, you know, impressed you about it? And you could, you know, you could plug his book rather than he plug his book.
00:02:14
Speaker
Well, I think one of the things that I particularly loved about it is just how questioning evangelism is designed to really help people know how to think about an issue more than what to think about it. So it's how to encourage people to be thinking about what's going on beneath the questions. So the questions there are to serve the person that you're speaking with, to help them to come to understand their own position a little bit better.
00:02:40
Speaker
That's one of the things that I really loved about it. And I found it really quite interesting. Amanda, I'd love to hear what you think about this, is that just to get to know you a little bit more, you were raised Jewish, weren't you? And I'd love to kind of know how did that unique rabbinical outlook, how did that shape your evangelism, particularly questioning evangelism?
Jewish Background and Dialogue-Based Evangelism
00:03:00
Speaker
I think that's the major influence in it. I did grow up in a Jewish home and didn't come to faith until my second year in the university when I was 20 years old. The Jewish culture was just so deeply ingrained in me.
00:03:19
Speaker
At one point, I started doing some seminars teaching Gentile Christians how to do Jewish evangelism, and I said, you know, with Jewish people, it has to be much more of a dialogue, back and forth conversation. It's not just a one-way presentation. And I said, it's very important to answer questions with questions, because that's just Jewish culture. That's the way
00:03:40
Speaker
That's the way we communicate. And more and more people started coming up to me afterwards and saying, you know, I think this would work really well with Gentile people as well as Jewish people. And I went, hmm, really? I didn't think that was possible. So that was a very, very important part of my approach to evangelism. The other piece of the puzzle was I was always on very difficult campuses where
Challenges and Dialogical Approach in Evangelism
00:04:05
Speaker
The standard typical evangelistic strategies just didn't work. They didn't work. In the US, different parts of the country respond to the gospel differently, or certainly that was the case 30, 40 years ago. And there were strategies that worked very well in the south of the US and the Midwest of the US, but not on big East Coast cities where I was serving. So I had to experiment because nothing was working.
00:04:35
Speaker
So as you sort of unpack that, as you put it, a really very kind of Jewish style of evangelism dialogue to and fro. And I think, you know, through the book and others have discovered that the use of questions is so powerful. Why are they so powerful?
Engaging Through Questions
00:04:48
Speaker
Why is it? Do you think the questions are such a good tool in evangelism? Why do you think? Oh, I see what you did there. All right. But I wasn't just joking. What happened when I mean, other than the joke, when I said, why do you think?
00:05:03
Speaker
it engaged you in the answering process. See, when we answer a question with just an answer, the person who posed the question doesn't have to be engaged in the process. They can just stand back at arms length and sort of watch you. And so it's a much different experience for them, the questioner. And so that's why I think answering a question with a question makes it then like two people are now wrestling with the answer, not just one.
00:05:34
Speaker
I wonder if there's something as well, you know, as the father of two young kids that there's something with anyone who's parented, you know, young children comes to quickly discover that if you can help them, you know, discover truth themselves rather than just present it to them, help them through education, you know, come to the answer.
Experiencing vs. Knowing the Gospel
00:05:51
Speaker
then actually it sticks much deeper. And I wonder that whether the same is true for evangelism, as if in that dialogue process, you're effectively almost uncovering the arts together. It's going to be far more meaningful for the other person if they feel, oh, yeah, Randy didn't just present this to me. He helped me uncover it. Yes, absolutely. That's right. And when it comes to the gospel, we want people to experience it. We don't just want them to
00:06:14
Speaker
know an answer to a question. We want them to know the Lord. We want them to be gripped by the reality of the gospel. And so this kind of rabbinic style of teaching is all the more crucial when it comes to evangelism.
00:06:32
Speaker
What would you say? I'm just thinking that sometimes in a UK context people can get a little bit frustrated by not answering the question. So I've used questions a lot and also just in in supervisions when I was working with UCCF in
00:06:49
Speaker
with staff workers. It's just so helpful because as you say, it helps bring the other person to an understanding of what is going on. But sometimes people can say things like, well, you're just avoiding answering the question by asking another question. Why the follow-up question? And you've kind of touched on that, but how would you kind of work around the frustration that someone might be feeling through being asked another question when they've already asked one wanting to know what the answer is?
Addressing Concerns About Direct Answers
00:07:17
Speaker
Right.
00:07:18
Speaker
Well, you know, this isn't a formula. So there was an old formula of, OK, people ask this particular question. Here's the answer. So you have a list of questions. If they ask question number three, you deliver answer number three. That's a formula. I'm not trying to say, well, let's replace that formula with another formula, which is they ask a question, respond with a question. What we're trying is to really make it a dialogical
00:07:49
Speaker
conversational engagement about the gospel. So I do think sometimes people are frustrated and we need to be very careful to jump in. Listen, I'm not trying to avoid the question. I do want to make this something where we're both engaged in the process of
00:08:06
Speaker
discovering the answer or encountering the answer. So I think, you know, they ask a question, we say, well, now what do you think is the answer? And if very quickly they say, hey, you're just avoiding the question, I think I would chime in with, well, I'm sorry, I don't mean to be avoiding the question, but I do want to make this the best possible conversation that we can have where both of us move toward a better understanding of the issue.
Explaining the Dialogical Approach
00:08:36
Speaker
Sometimes the person's just, they don't really want to know an answer, they're just trying to attack us and we should recognize that and know how to play that game too. So I don't know, is that helpful to respond to your question? See, I'm trying to respond to a question.
00:08:52
Speaker
I think that's so helpful because it just pierces through the subtext of the perception of perhaps it's a bit of a power play because it can come across as a little bit patronising sometimes as well, asking the next question. So actually just saying, no, this is why I'm doing this is because we're both discovering truth together.
00:09:12
Speaker
which I've been recently reading into the work of Michael Pollany. You've probably come across him, a former scientist and philosopher, and he talks about how we want to be a society of explorers, where together we discover truth. So I think just being very open, particularly in a post-truth context about our motivations, and we're doing this so that we can come to know together.
00:09:35
Speaker
That speaks a lot to the integrity of truth and of us as persons being limited in our discovery of that on our own. I think that's wonderful. Thanks, you. Yeah, a couple of things. I think it interested me in what you said, Randy, and also your response there.
00:09:51
Speaker
Christie, though, I think even if the people who are a bit sort of perhaps more more answer based in terms of, you know, their friend asked them something, they attempted to answer, even I love what you did there with Christie when you gave an answer, and then you ended up with a question saying, was that helpful? Did that answer your question? Because I think even that step with people can be helpful to invite your listener in right to I've given you what I think. But if she gets rubbish, please tell me if I wasn't clear, please, please tell me.
00:10:14
Speaker
You know, I just remembered, and by the way, that's what happens in a conversation. People remember things along the way that they hadn't thought of at first. So that's the beauty of a conversation. But also part of this, I don't know, wrestling with or
00:10:30
Speaker
putting together this kind
Influence of Counseling Techniques
00:10:32
Speaker
of approach. I also remember taking some classes when I was in seminary in counseling. I was considering the idea of going into counseling, and we learned all of these different kinds of techniques of questions to ask. In the process, I found out, oh, I really shouldn't be a counselor. That's a great calling. It's a wonderful gift. I'm not that kind of
00:10:55
Speaker
member of the body of Christ. It's almost scary for me to think of what I would be like as a counselor. You know, why are you doing that? Stop that. It's terrible. No, no. What are you, crazy? Which is probably not a good thing to say to someone in a counseling setting. I don't know that for certain. But anyway, what I did learn was all of these different ways that questions can help people move along
00:11:19
Speaker
not just in their discovery of truth, but understanding themselves better and understanding how truth connects to them in their experience. I remember writing a paper for one of those classes of a counseling approach to evangelism. That's some of what we're trying to do.
00:11:43
Speaker
One question I've sometimes encountered, Randy, when you sort of go into this sort of questioning evangelism sort of approach to things, occasionally I've come across Christians, I think you're a little bit nervous of it, because they feel that it gives the impression that the gospel is somehow uncertain and a bit wooly, even talk of discovering truth together.
Dialogue and Pre-Evangelism
00:12:01
Speaker
You know, people think, oh my gosh, that sounds rather liberal and postmodern.
00:12:05
Speaker
How do we reassure our Christian friends and brothers? This isn't in any sense a question of the gospel. It's thinking more about how we help people get to the reality of Christ. What do you say to somebody who says, this makes me nervous? You just need to preach the simple gospel.
00:12:20
Speaker
Well, preaching the gospel and proclaiming it is definitely a very, very important part of the process. So I don't want to say, well, let's just ask questions and let's just make it a dialogue because a very, very important part, really the core is
00:12:38
Speaker
proclaiming, here is the truth. So I'm very firm on that. I guess I see questions and dialogues as a form of pre-evangelism or as a form of helping people understand the gospel that has already been preached to them. So I do
00:13:00
Speaker
I think that that's a fair critique of my approach. And I want to say, yes, let's remember that the gospel is to be proclaimed. It is itself self-authenticating and powerful and cuts through. But there are too many examples in scripture of Jesus asking questions and doing dialogue and Paul doing the same thing in addition to proclaiming the gospel. So I don't want to make it either or.
00:13:27
Speaker
I was just thinking about this role of just asking questions generally. Why do you think that we kind of shy away from this? Because what you're saying, it is absolutely revolutionary and part of me thinks that
00:13:42
Speaker
The art of, Andy and I were talking about this a little while ago, that the art of having conversations is dying down a bit. Why do we need to be reminded that it's a good thing to ask questions? I mean, do you think it's fear? Why do you think we need to be reminded of this?
Fears of Compromising the Gospel
00:13:57
Speaker
Why is it so difficult for us? Oh boy, there's probably several things.
00:14:03
Speaker
Well, I do think there is a fear of compromise or shying away from the gospel. That's always, that has always been a problem.
00:14:15
Speaker
And it always will be a problem, I think, because of the counter-cultural and counter-human approach or nature of the gospel. The gospel is offensive, and we don't like to offend people. And so we want to be, there's always a temptation to back off and downplay the harder edges of the gospel. So I think some people are very afraid of that, and that's good. That's a good fear, I think.
00:14:44
Speaker
I think also the problem is, if we've ever experienced training where they give you a script of here's what to say, that just feels
00:14:58
Speaker
easier. Here, let me just read this booklet to you. Let me just tell you these four points. Let me just quote these Bible verses I've memorized. And that's a very good strategy, I think, in evangelism. It's just not the totality of it. And so when we start saying, well, you should ask questions, you should listen, people feel like, oh, wait a minute, it's a little too freeform. This is, it's certainly not scripted.
00:15:20
Speaker
And I think that can make people nervous. I do find though that when people try it out and they engage in really good conversation, they grow in their confidence and they see that the Lord can use that too.
00:15:38
Speaker
You talk there about trying it out, Randy, I'm sort of conscious that we've sort of talked a lot around the question asking approach in the last few minutes, but maybe there are folks listening to this who think this sounds really interesting, actually. I've never tried that, never thought about this. What are some first steps that you might encourage someone to do? I mean, obviously, buy your book, questioning evangelism would be the very obvious first step. But people are like, let me try this out first, and then I'll buy the book.
Improving Conversational Skills
00:16:04
Speaker
How would somebody perhaps
00:16:05
Speaker
adventure into this, who's never tried this before, what could they do? Oh, that's great. Well, I think conversation is a really beautiful gift that God has given to people created in his image. Our God is a communicating God, and he communicates to us with words,
00:16:25
Speaker
And we communicate with each other with words and conversation. And conversation is something that people do that animals don't. And so it's a really great thing. So I would want to encourage people, just grow in your ability and confidence in being a good conversationalist. And try starting with things easier to discuss than the gospel.
00:16:46
Speaker
where the gospel, it's pretty heavy duty stuff. So a lot of people, a lot of us never really engage in good conversation. We just, you know, we throw cliches at you. Hey, how are you doing? Good. How are you? Good. Nice weather. Yep. Good. That's it. So why not develop skills of asking questions and then listening carefully and then commenting about what the person just said before you just launch into your agenda. So
00:17:16
Speaker
So learning how to be a good question asker and a good listener. I do training in that in all of my seminars because everybody thinks they're a really good listener and they find out as they get into this, oh, there's a lot more to this than I thought.
00:17:32
Speaker
I think that's one of the things that I really appreciated about your book when I first read it is that you have some examples of the kinds of questions that we can ask in any conversation. And I just thought, oh gosh, this is so simple. And yet it's almost a theatre asking the question because you're not quite sure if you can answer the question.
00:17:55
Speaker
that might be posed back at you or you're not quite sure how to kind of navigate the conversation as a result, but these are such simple questions that you put out that grows us in any conversation. Could you just give us an example of some of those questions that we can ask in any of our conversations with friends or co-workers?
Fostering Engagement with Questions
00:18:15
Speaker
I should be good at this, right? My pressure. Well, I mean, just starting to get to know people, there's all sorts of different questions of where you're from and what do you like to do and what are some of your favorite things to do in free time? Do you like to watch television? What are some of your favorite shows? Why? What is it about that show or that book?
00:18:39
Speaker
those things that are of interest to you. Just tell me more about that. Why do you suppose that is? Those kinds of questions when you want to go a little further. Well, what do you mean by that? Of all of the things you could have said, why did you choose that topic?
00:19:03
Speaker
Isn't it possible that there's another way to look at that? I think...
00:19:10
Speaker
You know, it's kind of funny. We're more connected with other people than ever before with our phones and texting and all sorts of things. And yet, more and more people say they feel alienated and lonely. And I think it's because we don't have face-to-face conversation of looking at people's facial expressions or commenting on things like, oh, that sounds great. Or, oh, oh, tell me more about that. Oh, that sounds upsetting.
00:19:36
Speaker
Are you bothered by this? Those kinds of questions. And the biggest thing I want to tell people is try experimenting and seeing which questions work for you. And it's okay to ask a question or make a comment that doesn't quite connect. Because, you know, sometimes we say, oh, that sounds difficult. And the person looks at you and goes, no, it wasn't difficult at all. And it's like, oh, I'm sorry. Well, let me try that again. I think even trying,
00:20:04
Speaker
and not connecting actually does connect in an ironic kind of way, because it says to the person, I really care about you. And I'd like to hear more from you.
Connecting Through Genuine Conversations
00:20:13
Speaker
Instead of a conversation just being a almost like a tennis match back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, where people aren't really engaged in dialogue, they're, they're, they're almost engaged in simultaneous monologues.
00:20:28
Speaker
There's been some fantastic advice in there, Randy. Well, we're coming more at the end of the show. Christy, I'm interested as we sort of set this up at the beginning of how you'd use Randy's work on campuses. How have you found that it's gone down when you've applied this to the UK? Because obviously, Randy's over here as a US visitor, and some things translate, some things don't. How have you found that it's gone down when you've put it into practice?
00:20:58
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's, I mean, as we said before, I think this is a game changer because often, particularly students feel like I have to get the right answer. And if I don't know it, then I'm undermining the gospel. And being able to use questions as a way to get to know the other person as an act of love and sacrifice of pointing to the gospel.
Building Relationships Through Questions
00:21:23
Speaker
I think takes the pressure off the individual but also more significantly creates relationships. So it moves the conversation on and it means, oh yeah, I actually want to hang out with you a bit more. So I think particularly in cold contact situations,
00:21:44
Speaker
or even just with friends late at night, it means I want to hear more about what you have to say about this. This isn't me bringing the truth to you in a vacuum that you either accept or reject. This is me wanting to expose curiosity and just
00:22:02
Speaker
Build relationship with you get to know what you think say that I can at some point more meaningfully share the truth and beauty and relevance of Jesus to you in your context as we both as we both grapple with his reality.
00:22:19
Speaker
Well, Randy, I really want to kind of thank you for taking the time. I love what you ended there, Kristy, because I think that's what I appreciate about you is your concern, Randy, for that relationship with a person and very much winning the individual and not the argument. So thank you for all you've taken the time to share. Thank you so much, Randy.
00:22:37
Speaker
and I hope for you listening to this at home.
Conclusion and Support for Podcast
00:22:40
Speaker
This has encouraged you, if you haven't before, get up there, try asking questions, think about a dialogue conversation, and if you want to go deeper, I highly recommend Randy's book, Questioning Evangelism.
00:22:56
Speaker
I hope you've enjoyed listening to this episode of Pep Talk, the persuasive evangelism podcast. This is a listener supported podcast. We can only make it with the support of our friends across the country and around the world. And if you'd like to be a part of that community, simply visit the website, thepeptalkpodcast.com.
00:23:12
Speaker
and click on the Support the Podcast button. If you sign up to support Solas and the podcast for as little as three pound a month as a thank you, we will send you a free copy of my book, The Atheists Didn't Exist, or if you prefer, Christie's book, More Truth as a thank you. And through your support, we can keep making more podcasts like this one.