Transcript
Speaker: What if the way we view young athletes is completely backwards? Instead of defaulting to incompetence, and they don't know what they're doing, and teaching them that way, we've viewed them through the lens of untapped potential. Welcome to the Captains and Coaches podcast, where we explore the art and the science of leadership through the lens of athletics and beyond. I'm your host, Texel Quilkin, and I just got off a previous podcast with the author of 10 to 25, Dr. David Yeager.
Speaker: doctor david jaageger This book is dense. Our conversation is awesome. But I wanted to highlight a couple of things that I needed to get out before I edit and distribute the podcast that just, they they leapt off the page for me.
Speaker: And a lot of these things I've been doing well, a lot of things I've done wrong in the past, and I wanted to get them in your hands so that So the first one I wanted to introduce, this is called the neurobiological incompetence model.
Speaker: This is a default way of coaching, especially with the lower barrier of entry with coaching. Think about parents stepping into the coaching role with their kids or coaches who did not go through formal teacher education.
Speaker: They just have a an affinity for sports. They step into a coaching role their kids. without understanding the developmental stages of kids or how the age group they're working with is functioning or that particular stage stage of development they're in at the time.
Speaker: Where the NIM, Neurobiological Incompetence Model, it's a belief that young people from ages 10 to 25 are inherently flawed and deficient thinkers.
Speaker: So a coach or mentor going in with the assumption that the kid's already doing it wrong or they're not going to be able to get it. that That way of thinking, that's default for a lot of coaches that are working with athletes.
Speaker: Or they see them do one rep and assume that they don't know. But it's i mean it's like going to the driving range. It takes multiple reps for you to find your groove, even if you're a professional, and then take it in the day.
Speaker: So coaches that see one rep or they see one thing, or even on social media, you see one athlete or one of coach's athletes doing a lift wrong, you assume that that coach doesn't know what the hell they're talking about.
Speaker: That's an example of neurobiological incompetence. And my favorite example I've been reflecting on my career throughout that podcast and reading this book was...
Speaker: And I am with a JV football coach that I had. So this coach, he was 60 plus years old. He was the end of his coaching career working with us in ah in in JV in Katy, Texas.
Speaker: And his first year as a coach working at the collegiate level, his first year coaching, he was working at the collegiate level, University of Texas. He wins a national championship in the nineteen sixty s From then on out, 40 years later, he's working with JV ah ball guys. Talk about old ball coach.
Speaker: This guy was hilarious. And we had to watch varsity film as JV. We all watched the film together so we could learn together. And just being JV, 16-year-old boys, we'd be sitting in the back and then somebody be joking around.
Speaker: And Coach, I'm not going to give his name, Coach would turn around and just give us the, JV, shut up. Yeah, big film room guy. And there was one JV film session that jumped out to me where in football, I played linebacker, you're not supposed to go underneath a block. You need to go through somebody, cut somebody, go around the block to get ahead of it and redirect the ball carrier.
Speaker: So I went underneath the block. I did inappropriate fundamental and I made a tackle. So he stopped the film, highlighted that note, and then told me exactly what I did wrong.
Speaker: And i with my own 16-year-old brain, I talked back and said, but but I made the play. And Coach stepped back, well, that's good enough for you, and asked me a question, and I did not have a response for him. So...
Speaker: Coach, i mean, he he led with that incompetence. He expected me to make the wrong play for sure. I did. i did make the right decision by not talking back. I didn't want to put my my teammates through it. We did our film in our wrestling rooms. It was a bunch of mats.
Speaker: There's nothing stopping Coach from turning us all around and turning that into a punishment session. So... Think about the old ball coaches that you had that led with this or the old teachers that led and assumed that you're an idiot and then talked to you, talked down to you and tried to lead you to an answer because they saw one bad rep or they just assumed, hey, this person's only 16 or they've been playing this for only so long.
Speaker: They don't know what they're talking about. That's an example. And I know it exists outside of sports, but the NIMs, It's a default, and I want you to start to look for that throughout it. So just that a coach's inherent belief that the person they're working with, they're incompetent, they're flawed, they're deficient, they don't know what the hell they're doing, even though they may do. All right.
Speaker: Which now, thinking internally, I'm going to introduce another theme in the book. And this is from one of Dr. Yeager's pals, Jeffrey Cohen, psychologist. It's called The Mentor's Dilemma.
Speaker: This is the challenge leaders face when trying to give criticism while still motivating growth. And they introduce in the book two different dilemmas that's approached.
Speaker: One, when you come in too tough or too critical. There's risk that you then crush the motivation of the athlete. You see the fault and you come in aggressive and you immediately try to stop it. You may be correct, but they're not motivated to then apply the correction that you have to give.
Speaker: There's also the overly nice and supportive coach where you risk being dishonest telling them good job, great effort, even though it may not be there, you're actually withholding growth.
Speaker: So you're avoiding hurting their feelings, but it's actually holding them back through their true potential. So both risks within this. And I never miss an opportunity. I asked Dr. Yeager about the compliment sandwich and what is his scientific feedback and approach to this.
Speaker: And we're aligned. He doesn't like it. So the praise, criticism, praise, athletes are, there's there's many different ways that they could take it. One is coach is too worried about the athlete not liking them or ah thinking that they're a negative person so they lead off with that positive compliment.
Speaker: There's also the the potential, and that's on the coach. There's also the potential the athlete. Here's the initial praise, but there's something internally where they don't believe it. If you have something positive say, they don't believe it.
Speaker: And then coach says the criticism, and they're like, that's the truth. I am that. I am incapable of that. And by then, you've lost them. And they you may say the compliment to close the sandwich, but they didn't hear that at all.
Speaker: if your example you're a soccer coach and you tell them i love your hustle but but your passing is terrible keep up the energy though that's a compliment sandwich and they may be just going home and saying you know coach thinks i suck at passing bet facts whatever the kids say so that's an example of a compliment sandwich going wrong And there's too many factors within there.
Speaker: So here's our solution. And this is the whole book comes down to the next few points here. And what Jaeger calls the wise feedback.
Speaker: And this is how we get over the dilemma, where we lead with the expectation. We are combining our what could be labeled as a criticism, our feedback, and we combine it with high standards and high support.
Speaker: I expect a lot from you. That's way we're leading with our expectation for them. And then we can provide the feedback. So it's leading with the belief. So high expectation, leading with the belief that, and I could believe you can meet those expectations with my help.
Speaker: And here's how we're going to do it. Example for a basketball coach, you need to box out harder. That's one way to say ah leading with the the criticism there.
Speaker: Or you can say, I'm pointing this out because I know you can be one of the best rebounders on the team. Let's work together on your positioning and dominate the boards.
Speaker: Here's the drill that we're going to do together. That is an example of wise feedback. We're giving them, leading with the expectations, and we're giving them the support and the necessary drills, and we're right alongside with them to lead to that. It's as simple as high standards and belief.
Speaker: And see how that bottles ah battles the the mindset before. What we're going to do now is introduce the three met three mindset framework, and I want you to reflect on not only your coaching career and who you worked with, but also your athletic career.
Speaker: Did you have one of these mindset coaches? Have you been one of these mindset coaches? And I've i've been each of these mindset coaches. So no shame here. I want you to think about and reflect on how the end result, if you were that coach, what was the end result for your athlete?
Speaker: If you had this coach when you were an athlete, how did how did it make you feel? What was the end result for you? What i'm going to lead off with, and this is most likely the most common, especially in my athletic career from Texas football into collegiate lacrosse, was the enforcer mindset.
Speaker: Simply put, this is high standards and low support.
Speaker: Think about the, I see this all the time, and especially in football. A football player, an example, football player makes a mistake on the field during a game. Coach pulls them out, high expectation, low support. He sends them to the bench, no feedback.
Speaker: He didn't tell them what they did wrong or what they could improve. Kid was giving all effort. They made a mistake on the field, and then the support is gone. bat is Back is turned to the coach.
Speaker: That's that enforcer. And this this pattern is built in practice. And unfortunately, we see it's carry over into games when the stress is higher.
Speaker: um I've talked about I've had two collegiate lacrosse coaches in my career. The first one we had was a true enforcer. He led us. And he wanted to grind us into the ground. We ended up coming together as a great team, but we had resentments toward this coach.
Speaker: I, in my career, lower skill, I led with enforcer, especially as a collegiate lacrosse coach. I led with enforcer. and And that was an opportunity for me to think about how I'm delivering leadership.
Speaker: And it didn't work for a lot of guys because I wanted it more than them. I led them like I led myself, but that that's a different thing. I had 40 people to take into consideration.
Speaker: So Enforcer is at high standards without support. Have you been that as a coach? Next one I'm going to introduce is a protector mindset where we have high support but low standards.
Speaker: And we're almost fearful for the aggressiveness that we could bring. We're feel fearful for the challenging opponent on the schedule. We want to protect their ego. We want to protect their pride so we don't tell them,
Speaker: what they need to work on. But this actually holds them back. And the usually the younger athletes, the freshmen, whether it's in high school or college, they receive this protector mindset approach.
Speaker: ah And then I've seen this with female athletes. ah The example I'm going to give is a volleyball coach that is a talented but timid freshman. So they have perfect ah tools and skill set, but they're just timid. They don't believe in themselves yet.
Speaker: So instead of coach pushing her to serve aggressively, they say, hey, don't worry about it. Just get it over the net however you can.
Speaker: We don't want you to feel bad if you miss. That's an example of the protector. So kids can feel that. They sense that. And then the what does that sense? It's coach doesn't believe in me.
Speaker: So they're that's why they're they're babying me and being soft on it. I mean, even the enforcer coach I referenced in college, he protected me often. I was a Texas kid coming to the East Coast to play a ball, made every mistake, as you can imagine, didn't understand the game to the same level as my teammates.
Speaker: And there was oftentimes he... held back in drills. He put me off to the side versus putting me in the drill to learn from my mistakes. It's just, I can't i can't coach you right now.
Speaker: You sit over there, and it was a combination of that enforcer and protector, just not what I needed at that time. What I needed is our our next one we're going to introduce here, which was a mentor mindset.
Speaker: This is where there are high standards and high support. tough but loving approach. That's the aim that I want you to take into your communication.
Speaker: Example I have here, think about a track coach who gives an athlete a demanding 400 meter interval workout. Instead of just saying, hey, figure it out, or this is the workout, go do it. My workout on paper is going to take you to the national championship.
Speaker: No. This coach then runs the first leg with them. They run alongside them and they time every split, almost like a pace horse. And they remind them, this is how champions are made.
Speaker: I know you can hit this pace and I'm here with you until you do. They may fall back off that. The athlete may fall back off that pace, but coach is able to communicate and get them going to what coach is demanding of them. That's high expectations and high support.
Speaker: Athletes so feels like they're suffering now, but they're actually growing and learning how to be a leader. They don't feel abandoned, they feel believed in. That is a a mentor mindset for a coach.
Speaker: What was really cool about this this conversation with Dr. Yeager is he's worked closely with Carol Dweck and Angela Duckworth. Years ago, i was very fortunate to have the opportunity to interview Angela Duckworth and it was a phenomenal conversation. And that's why I love reaching out to authors, just reached out to Dr. Yeager blind here,
Speaker: and he accepted my invitation for the podcast is so we can help these ideas come to life. So Dr. Yeager is a expert in development. He's also a parent and a coach for his own kids.
Speaker: So he's applying these tools in real time. And a lot of our conversation concluded with taking his experience, education, and work with Dr. Dweck about growth mindset and then connecting it with a mentor mindset.
Speaker: So growth mindset, you you effectively believe in yourself. And this is what I listen for when working with athletes is the words that they say about themselves.
Speaker: I can't do this. I'm not good at my left hand. and introduce simple turn of phrases of, you are not good with your yet left hand yet.
Speaker: It takes time. um Or, I need more opportunities to work on my left hand. That's what you're saying, right? And they're like, yes, yes, sir. I need more opportunities with my left hand.
Speaker: So we're introducing opportunities growth mindset to them to their vocabulary and leading them to that so i have high expectations of them i have high support teaching them how to talk about themselves and we're instilling a growth mindset within the athlete so when a mentor mindset and a growth mindset meet that's when the magic happens versus an enforcer mindset where you're trying to push these guys and toughen them up by being an asshole and saying, oh, I'm doing this because I'm going to toughen them up.
Speaker: That doesn't work, according to the research and the experts within the field of mindset and development. So that that's what I want to highlight here. And the protector, you're protecting them.
Speaker: And we see this all the time with parents. Maybe that's a default. But then what happens to the kid when they get down to the real world? I saw plenty of that as a collegiate athlete, a college student, where kids couldn't do their own laundry in our freshman dorm room.
Speaker: what are we talking about here? So there's plenty of examples in both sport and real life here. our Our emphasis of this conversation is aiming to understand both growth mindset and mentor mindset and how you can bring it to practice and then really have it come to life during games when the athletes step onto the field and they just express this confidence and belief in themselves.
Speaker: It's okay to make mistakes make the next play. It's okay to get scored on because good teams answer. We're creating this belief within themselves.
Speaker: And fun conversation. I'm grateful for his time and giving you this opportunity ahead of time to get into the book, one, 10 to 25, and then two start to reflect on your athletic career and your coaching career and what your takeaways are.
Speaker: So take the time, think about you as a coach, have you led with enforcer? Were there times that you were an enforcer? How it work out for that athlete in the long term? Times you were a protector.
Speaker: How did it work out for that athlete? And did you stumble upon the mentor mindset at times? And think about what was the end result for the athlete.
Speaker: And now aiming to give intention during your next practice or your next session to lead with this mentor mindset where you have a high standard. You establish a clear expectation for them.
Speaker: and then you provide the support and the tools to take them where they can't take themselves. that That's our aim and that's my expectation too that I have with every captain is leading them with this mentor mindset, teaching them these tools, breaking it down so then they know how to step into the the leadership mentor role that is one of the responsibilities as a team captain.
Speaker: And we're we're building leaders not only for our team today but also the future.
Speaker: so i got for you. Thank you for tuning in to another episode. I encourage you to like, subscribe, share this episode with fellow coaches, put them through these one, two, three mindsets, see where they feel they've had the most success and power.
Speaker: And then if it's defaulting to that enforcer, really ask them, what's the end result? Did they break a lot of eggs to make an omelet and use that one successful athlete as their whole justification for their approach?
Speaker: Or... Take on the mentor role. Something to think about. All right. Until next time, thank you for tuning in and helping us raise the game. Bye.
Speaker: See you.
