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076 - Building Champs From Scratch w/ Lindsey Munday
104 Plays13 days ago
What does it take to build a championship program when there's nothing there?
In this episode, Tex sits down with Coach Lindsey Munday, who's done one of the rarest things in coaching – built winning lacrosse programs from absolute zero not once, but twice. As a player, she helped Northwestern grow from a brand-new program to back-to-back national champions in just four years. Now, as head coach of USC Women's Lacrosse and the USA Women's Lacrosse team preparing for the 2028 Olympics, she's doing it all over again.
Lindsey brings a unique perspective to leadership, having experienced it at every level – team captain, 10-year Team USA veteran, and a head coach who took the job at just 26 years old with nothing but vision and belief.
What You'll Learn:
- The First Game Strategy – Why Lindsey scheduled the #1 team in the country for USC's very first game, and how tracking progress against the best became a tangible measure of growth
- Building Buy-In From Nothing – How to get athletes to commit to a vision when there are no wins, no history, and no proof it will work
- The Captain Selection Process – USC's application-based voting system that creates honest conversations about leadership gaps and builds self-awareness across the entire roster
- Olympic-Level Leadership – What it takes to build team cohesion with just 12 athletes scattered across the country, competing in a brand-new format of the game
- Skill vs. Style – How to balance creative expression and athletic freedom with fundamental soundness and team structure
This conversation is packed with practical insights on building culture, developing leaders, and preparing athletes for life beyond the game.
Connect with Coach Lindsey Munday: Instagram: @lindsaymunday USC Women's Lacrosse: @usctrojanslax
Whether you're building a program from scratch, developing young leaders, or just trying to create better buy-in from your team, this episode gives you the blueprint.
Training - Old Bull Program - 7 Day Free Trial - https://bit.ly/old-bull-train
Education - Why They're Not Listening: Coaching the Modern Athlete - http://listen.captainsandcoaches.com
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Leadership and Humble Tasks
00:00:00
Speaker
Like leaders should be the ones that are picking up balls at the end of practice and picking up trash on the field and sort of all of those things to to show that it's all important. It's not just showing up and sort of puffing your chest. It's having people want to follow you, not asking for it.
00:00:15
Speaker
Welcome to the Captains & Coaches Podcast, we explore the art and the science of leadership through the lens of athletics and beyond. I'm your host Tex McColkin and today we're exploring lacrosse and leadership with Coach Lindsey Munday, head coach of USC women's lacrosse and Team USA women's lacrosse that's heading to the Olympics in 2028.
Welcome and Introduction of Guests
00:00:35
Speaker
Lindsey's journey is a masterclass in leadership evolution. from Team Captain at Northwestern where she helped build a program that won back-to-back national championships to a decade representing Team USA to becoming a head coach at just 26 years old.
00:00:53
Speaker
She's done something incredibly rare in our sport, built two championship caliber programs from absolute scratch. In this conversation, we explore her team captain selection process, how she creates buy-in when there's nothing to see yet, and what it takes to prepare 12 athletes to represent our country on the Olympic stage.
Lindsey Munday's Career Journey
00:01:15
Speaker
With that, let's pass it off to Lindsay to help us raise the game. Ready, ready, and ready. We're on the recruiting trail. So i appreciate you just taking an hour out of your day to to connect with us and talk some shop.
00:01:29
Speaker
Of course. Happy to be here. Yes. And shout out coach Nicole Shattuck, Duke University for making the connection here. And she's also Team USA's Strength and Conditioning coach.
00:01:41
Speaker
Um, yeah, well, I, I, I want to start from the the beginning because you've had a storied career as an athlete team captain, and now you're doing amazing things as a coach, both with USC lacrosse and then USA lacrosse.
00:01:57
Speaker
So there's so much here. And it started with, with this mindset and approach of you taking on the, the opportunity with Northwestern lacrosse when it was just an East coast dominated sport.
00:02:11
Speaker
And Northwestern is is nowhere near that coast. o Yeah, i was I was really lucky and and really fortunate. I grew up a soccer player. I played soccer, basketball, and lacrosse growing up, but I did club soccer throughout you know my younger
Journey into Lacrosse and Early Success
00:02:27
Speaker
years. And so I always thought sort of I would go that route and and play soccer. And I just happened to go to a lacrosse camp in Boston with my high school friends that said, you want to go to a camp in Boston? And I said, sure. and that camp changed, you know the whole trajectory of of my life and my career. And, and so I had the opportunity to go to Northwestern. It was a new program at the time. So she was really just looking for
00:02:54
Speaker
athletes that she could coach and and sort of teach this sport. And so I jumped at the opportunity because I really with lacrosse didn't get recruited too many places. So it was kind of a no brainer to go to Northwestern. But I just truly believed in in Kelly Amati Hiller and her vision for the program. And and obviously, you know, kind of haven't looked back since.
00:03:15
Speaker
No, no, they're, they're definitely storied. So when you you're starting there, what shape was the program in versus where you finished at university? So it was just the second year of the program. Um, we were brand, brand new. Um, there was one class above me and then we ended up winning my junior and senior year winning the national championship. So it kind of went from this brand new program to in the fourth year.
Foundation of Team Success
00:03:40
Speaker
winning the national championship, which was, you know, obviously in hindsight, you know, you can look back, but even in the moment I remember I have, you know, i had this email that I sent to my sister, i think after my sophomore year that said, you know season went well, you know, we're getting better. I know we're right there, you know, we're, we're, you know, going to turn the corner and that next year we won the national championship. So you could feel, you know, sort of that trajectory and and the potential of the group and,
00:04:09
Speaker
Honestly, you know, it makes me sort of circle back to that. It wasn't just about the lacrosse piece. It was it was truly about our belief, you know, in in Kelly, the coach and the vision she had in each other. We weren't the best group of lacrosse players by by any stretch, but we believed we were, you know, all in and, you know, all the time.
Leadership Transition and Learning
00:04:31
Speaker
And I think when you have that perfect storm, you know, you can do great things.
00:04:36
Speaker
And then you were a team captain, correct? I was yes. And so one thing I'd love to highlight is that that first year, that entry level leadership, when the year before you're on the same level as your teammates, but now you take a step up and you're this 360 degree leader where you got to communicate up to coach, you got to communicate down to your teammates and then lead across with your, your co-captains.
00:05:00
Speaker
So take us into that first year and the mindset, your approach, where you had this new responsibility to take the team where they they had not gone before.
00:05:11
Speaker
Yeah, well, I was a captain my so you know my senior year. We had great leadership um from the great above us you know as we continued to build. And so to your point, I think they did a phenomenal job leading leading by example and you know holding a standard for the entire team of of sort of what we needed to do and how we needed to buy in. So I think it's just so important when you're younger to really learn from the older players to to really kind of see what leadership styles you might like. and And it gives you the opportunity when you're younger to sort of practice that leadership and really low stakes opportunities, just small conversations with teammates. Maybe you start with your peers, but then when it is your turn to lead, whether that's junior year, senior year, you're a little bit more confident and comfortable. And you've taken all these lessons from other people on maybe things that did well, maybe things you
From Captain to Coach
00:06:06
Speaker
want to change. And so you're able to sort of structure your leadership through those experiences.
00:06:12
Speaker
Yeah. And then you also leveled up into coaching your team. So I had a similar experience where I went from team captain to graduate assistant coach. So these were my teammates, they were my friends, but now they were my athletes.
00:06:25
Speaker
Now, leveling up in that responsibility and and sense of leadership, what challenges did you face in that first year as as a coach? Yeah, it was hard. um It was really hard because I think, you know, for me and, and you know, how the program was operating, you you certainly as a coach want to be their friend and and all of that, but it had to be in a different light. And so, you know, relationships did have to change a little bit just for the time being because,
00:06:54
Speaker
it is a profession. It is, you know, you do have to be mature and, you know, you have to draw a line as a coach, whether you're an assistant or a head coach and whether you're a captain, like there is a line that sort of has to be drawn of professionalism and
Challenges of Team USA and Leadership
00:07:09
Speaker
things like that. So, you know, our relationships changed a bit, but also in the sense, you know, I was that liaison, you From the players, you know, to the coaching staff, I had just been there, i was still playing and competing, so I knew what they were going through. So you have that sense of, of similarities of, of things that you can connect on. But you know, your relationship had to change a little bit.
00:07:32
Speaker
Yeah. And I believe it helped that you were still playing. So Team USA, we're going to get to the future of Team USA, but you were Team USA in this time that you were coaching. What was lacrosse like internationally at that time?
00:07:49
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, i think when I started playing, and I think, again, all of this is, you know, I tried out for Team USA multiple times. It did not make it. So I also think it's really easy, you know, even when I'm talking to recruits now, for them to think, you know,
00:08:05
Speaker
oh, you know, she got a full ride or she was recruited everywhere because I've had success. Not the case, you know? And so I just think it's so important to note that, like putting yourself in situations to try out and not make the team and have that sort of, you know, North star and those goals that you want to get. I think it just means so much and and it sort of challenges you in a different way, but I did have the opportunity to play and um And again, I think i just always, i think, constantly wanted to get better, you know, and I never thought, you know I was on Team USA for 10 years in every tryout.
Self-Motivation in Dispersed Teams
00:08:41
Speaker
I was nervous and thought that I wouldn't make it and that, you know, I was going to get cut when I had been on, you know, won a gold medal and been on the all world team that, you know, the World Cup before. And I'm thinking I'm going to get cut because,
00:08:53
Speaker
That's the mindset. You know, again, i think all mindsets can kind of be, you know, your biggest strength and maybe you're, you know, a weakness as well. But I think it's just always striving to get better, never being comfortable comfortable with with where you're at. And I think for Team USA, it's, you know, at the forefront has to be you're a role model.
00:09:13
Speaker
You know, you have Team USA across your chest. You have to have a lot of pride of that. You have to put your ego aside. You have to truly... you know, be ambassadors of this sport while competing at the highest level. And I think, you know, you can't take any of of those things lightly.
00:09:29
Speaker
Yeah. And I'd love to highlight the leadership aspect of Team USA because with a college team, you're hanging out with your teammates every single day. You're going to meals together, you're living together and time is easy. So leadership, it's not easy, but it comes just with the nature of getting to know and build a relationship. Now with Team USA,
00:09:49
Speaker
Girls are all over the country. So how did you go about taking on a leadership role when everybody is everywhere? You know, it's it's interesting. I think a lot of probably the best leaders maybe don't try to be leaders. You know, you you sort of it it does have to have a natural sort of, ah you know, ability to it. But luckily with Team USA, I mean, everyone is so motivated and so um self-motivated that people are, you know, you you talk and connect. But um a lot of us were still either playing or coaching. And so you were able to compartmentalize a a little bit. But you were training on your own, you were, you know, being ready. But then once you're there, it's about coming, coming together and connecting and continuing to build those relationships and figuring out again, how can we, you know, all come together as a team, you know, because everyone is so talented. Everyone is so good, you know, at lacrosse, but how can we be the best team? And I think, you know, throughout tryout process, you know, you saw that because great players maybe didn't make the team, but again, in terms of the makeup of,
00:10:57
Speaker
each team, it has to be people that can compliment each other. And and like I said, you're going to put put your ego to the the side. and And again, like leaders should be the ones that are picking up balls at the end of practice and picking up trash on the field and sort of all of those things um to to show that it's all important.
Old Bull Training Program
00:11:13
Speaker
It's not just showing up and sort of puffing your chest. It's having people want to follow you, not asking for it.
Respect and Communication in Coaching
00:11:19
Speaker
Time out. Let's take a second to talk about training and introducing you to the Old Bull Training Program. This is the program that I'm following and writing for myself because i was bored and beat up with other training programs out there.
00:11:34
Speaker
Now I focus in on fun and a very time effective and efficient training program. It also targets different joint issues that I'm having, shoulders, hips, back, knees, ankles, everything from my athletic playing career and then career as a strength conditioning coach, lifting every single day.
00:11:52
Speaker
My body's beat up as I approach 40. This program is focused on building it back up in a very time-effective and efficient manner. I encourage you, check out the program. The most fun you'll have throughout the week and how I'm structuring the program and giving you the opportunity to choose your own adventure each day.
00:12:13
Speaker
For seven-day free trial, click the link in the show notes, check out the program, and join me on Old Bull. And now, back to the show. Ready, ready, and break. I'd love to highlight while we're in this era of your career, the relationships you had with your coaches. And that that's one thing that I find insanely valuable, both in my past athletic career and now current coaching career, is just building that bond and relationship.
00:12:39
Speaker
were there Were there moments of struggle? Did you have disagreements? How did you manage those? And what were some major lessons that you're still holding on to today as head coach? Yeah. You know, I think in maybe it's like the I don't want to say suck up in me, but like, I don't know. I was brought up to to respect my coaches and listen to them and do what they say.
00:13:02
Speaker
And i think people joke now, too, about like coaches have favorites and things like that. It's like, well, the coaches favorites are typically the ones that work hard and listen to them. And it's not sort of the secret um about what works and what doesn't. So I don't know, for me, like I've always respected my coaches. I've always, you know, listened to them and tried to execute what they're saying. And I think because of that, it then allows people conversations, you know, obviously we're the ones, you know, on the field. So then they ask you, you know, what are you seeing? What do you think? Or, you know, how are you feeling with this? And then it's a little bit more collaborative, but I do think it starts with respect always on both sides, you know, from coaches to players and players to coaches. But I think it then allows sort of that open dialogue of communication to find out what works best on the field. Mm
00:13:51
Speaker
And yeah, I want to transition now to your first head coaching opportunity. Did you always foresee yourself as
Building USC's Lacrosse Program
00:13:59
Speaker
being a head coach? What was getting that that call like?
00:14:03
Speaker
Yeah, um I always did. i knew I wanted to coach from, you know, a really young age, you know, and in high school. I knew it. um You know, there's just always I knew sports have always been just, a you know, everything and and just so important to me. I think they've created relationships, learned lessons. I just always knew I wanted to be involved in that. And so, yeah.
00:14:25
Speaker
You know, having the opportunity to coach as an assistant under Kelly was incredible. Learned, learned so much. And then getting this opportunity opportunity at USC, i had to kind of fake it till I made it. You know, I had to pretend at 26, I knew exactly what I was doing, but just so incredibly grateful.
00:14:43
Speaker
Again, I've had just wonderful experiences. So first and foremost, as a coach, that's my, that's my goal, right? Prepare, prepare my players for life after college, but provide a great experience.
00:14:55
Speaker
and win, you know, and, and learn lessons and have fun doing it. But, you know, it has to be provide great experience and, and, you know, teach them lessons and prepare them. And what was your first year at USC?
00:15:08
Speaker
I was hired in 2011 and our first season was, um, 2013. And now you've seen West coast lacrosse just explode.
00:15:19
Speaker
I mean, there was no PAC 12 lacrosse back then, right? Yeah, no, no. And now it's Big Ten. So I've gone through a couple of changes.
00:15:30
Speaker
That's right. i'm I'm still I still forget. something um What? Yeah, i would love to to spend some time with USC. Talk to us about your your vision, because you had one of the most rare experiences as a coach is to start a program from scratch.
00:15:47
Speaker
thought So what was leading with vision like before there was even a game on the schedule? Yeah, I think, um again, the vision for USC is win a national championship.
00:15:59
Speaker
um You know, and and at USC, that can happen. I think, again, for me and women's lacrosse in general, but I wanted, you know, a place that had both things at a high level, both high athletics, but also high academics. So we could prepare our players for their careers, their futures. I also think being in l LA, we're one of the few schools, if if at all, but has all three. We are also in Los Angeles and you know, the the culture, the city, the just all of the things you can experience. um
00:16:30
Speaker
And so that was so important for me. But, you know, it's it's really fun, you know, building a program. It's really cool to, you know, get players to buy into something that, you know, isn't there. And I honestly I wish you could recreate it, you know, even now being 14 years later. and And it's it's kind of impossible. You know, it's there is just something so special about the beginning.
00:16:54
Speaker
that you just can't
Attracting Players to USC
00:16:56
Speaker
recreate. You know, it's it's the first goal ever. It's the first win of the program ever. It's all of these things that you're building that have never been done before. You know, I think you can recreate things, you know, on current teams and and make it your own, but it truly is just so, so special to have people buy in to have a team of all, you know, freshmen, basically freshmen and sophomores and see them grow. It's really, really special. So it was, you know, it was amazing to be able to do that as a player at Northwestern. And then to, to have that at USC was, was really, really special.
00:17:29
Speaker
Yeah. I, I, That sounds like a great opportunity for you to then communicate your experience of like, hey, one, two, three, four years, we were able to to execute.
00:17:40
Speaker
And for that recruiting in the first class, I mean, what was your pitch? What was your motivation? Were you getting girls from the East Coast or or taking the rest of the country west of the Mississippi?
00:17:52
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, we were we were taking anyone. um But no, I mean, it's come to California, come to US. You know, you can always go back to the East Coast, but come to California, spend four years here, get an amazing education, be part of something brand new. um And, you know, it was really fun. It was really fun to kind of, you know, see. Because really, I mean, I didn't know what USC was really all about, you know, when I came on my interview. Like you just, I don't think you know campus or anything like that. until you're here. um
00:18:23
Speaker
And so getting kids out to visit, you know, bringing them to the beach and, you know, seeing the Hollywood sign and just all of those things, I think, um you know, is really, is really cool. But it was fun to get to get players out and to build this team and to get people to buy in um to something that really hadn't been, you know, it wasn't a thing.
USC's Rivalry and Growth
00:18:44
Speaker
And to talk to us about that first game, because I know you scheduled somebody special. We did. We did. We scheduled Northwestern, who is the reigning, you know, number one national, reigning national champion, number one team in the country. um And we got our butts kicked, which, you know, I kind of probably expected to happen. But um look, you know, if you want to be the best, you have to play the best. And so for me and for us, it was all right, let's do this. Let's start off with the best, because at the end of the day, it's going to show us where we need to be. And I think the really cool thing about, you know, that
00:19:19
Speaker
scheduling We played Northwestern every year. And so year one, you know, we we lost by a lot. Year two, we lost by a little less than that. Year three, we lost in overtime. And year four, we beat them. So see that in real time with the players that we had was very, very cool and a pretty tangible, you know, metric of success. But yeah it was like, let's go. Here we go. We're playing the best. And, you know, it is what it is. And this is where we want to be. So um let's let's see it.
00:19:48
Speaker
Does that continue to be a rivalry now? Well, now we're back in their conference. so um So, yeah, we kind of didn't have the ability to schedule them for for a few years there. But now um we're in the same conference. we'll be playing them every year, which is awesome. Again, like they're a phenomenal program.
00:20:05
Speaker
um Again, couldn't have more respect, obviously, for Kelly. But, you know, they're one of the best. So, yeah, I love that they're in our conference and we're going to compete and, um you know, and and have, you know, games against them all the time, which is which is awesome.
Team Captain Selection Process
00:20:20
Speaker
I'd love to deep dive into your captainship program now because you've been a team captain at multiple levels and you get the opportunity every single year to select new leaders within your team.
00:20:32
Speaker
What's USC women's lacrosse approach to selecting and finding the right women to lead them each year? Yeah, we've um we've sort of molded this process. We've gone back and forth. We've tried different things. Currently, we have our um we do it over the summer, and we've um you have to apply. you know So the girls have to um to submit their own names and a reason you know why they want to be a captain and what they would bring. And then we share that with ah the team.
00:21:06
Speaker
And then the team votes. So as, as a coach, I don't vote. I think there's just so much, you know, that happens off the field that, you know, that the girls really know and feel, and that we're not a part of. And so I think it's important that it's their, you know, it's their vote. It's their choice. um But they have to vote, you know, for they have to submit that vote and then they choose. And we also currently again, we do it in the summer before the freshmen get to campus because we've also felt i mean, the freshmen don't know, you know, they don't know them yet.
00:21:35
Speaker
They don't know their leadership styles. I think sometimes when the freshmen come in right away, if if you don't, if you if you wait to vote until October or November, you sort of have people campaigning potentially a little bit, which I don't think really um is is too genuine and might, you know, sort of skew some votes. um And if you have them vote day one, again, they don't know them. They probably just vote for maybe the best player. And I don't think that's always the case in terms of leadership. So we've done it that way for the last couple years. So it's the returners who nominate and the returners who vote. And then, you know, um and we say also you have to get 60% of the votes of the team. So,
00:22:15
Speaker
If, you know, let's say there's one girl who gets a ton of votes, but then the next skew is, you know, seven votes, six votes, five votes, like you have to get over at least over 50%. I think we've gone 60, but it has to be, a you know, a vast majority of the team who is feeling that way.
00:22:34
Speaker
Do you feel there's a right number of captains? One, two, three, four, or is it this team this year? Yeah, i I don't. I think it's, you know, I think it just is dependent on the group. If there's more leadership that year, um you know, we're happy to do that. Last year, we had one.
00:22:51
Speaker
um This year, we have two. um So it's really just dependent on the votes. And we had asked that player, you know, because I was a solo captain of Team USA. And we had that conversation, too. was like, you know, is this too much, you know? And So I think it takes the right player to you know be OK only being the one. We tried to then support her with some leadership committees and and things like that.
00:23:13
Speaker
But she was she was OK with it. So we went with one this year. Two players got voted. So so we're going with two. Nice. Yeah. And then was one a captain the previous season or are they both brand new this year?
00:23:27
Speaker
They're both brand new. um We also, you know, now call it four years ago, we thought about and for maybe two years we did it. We we had to have a junior captain um because we wanted them to be able to sort of be in those conversations so that they could learn without a little bit pressure. And then we we went away from that just because then, ah you know, we kind of felt like.
00:23:52
Speaker
Again, people were just voting for a junior because they had to. So again, I think that's the biggest thing, too, is like we're open to changing this process as we go, because I don't think it's always a one size fits all approach. We kind of have to be able to adapt and kind of, you know, mix and mold and see what works and see what doesn't. So we've tried the junior captain. We're not doing that right now. So, you know, it's just just those two.
Leadership Self-Awareness and Feedback
00:24:16
Speaker
Has there ever been a moment where you elected a captain at any point in the season? Because this person, they just leveled up over the the three or four months leading up to spring ball.
00:24:28
Speaker
Yeah, i in you know years and years ago, ah the coaches added a captain, um and I don't think it went over well. um by probably It was probably half and half. you know Half were totally you know on board because she she had been voted prior. Probably half were maybe not thrilled that we did that. so um So, again, I'm not opposed to it, but I think, again, it has to be pretty obvious and pretty – clear to the team, you know, because again, at the end of the day, like we need their support, you know, it's not just us telling them, you know, who should be a leader. Like, I think, again, it's really important that they're actually a leader. So they should get voted by by the team. So I've done it before. Again, I'm probably hesitant to do it again, you know, unless it's really obvious.
00:25:14
Speaker
Yeah. And You mentioned the the student athletes, they have to apply for this position. Do you have requirements, like job requirements, that are they going to apply like they'd apply for a job so that they establish and they know the expectations of you and the the coaching staff?
00:25:32
Speaker
Yeah, it's a great question. We haven't so far. It's kind of just, you know, whatever they want to say to the team in regards of of how they want to lead, um you know, through their experiences that they've had. So we haven't done that um in the past, but, you know, not not opposed to, you know, anything ah in the future. I think the biggest thing that we've, you know, that we continue to talk to the team and the captains about, but it does need to be collaborative with us. You know, obviously as captains, you are, you know, going to handle some things without the coaches.
00:26:07
Speaker
And I also think there are things that sometimes they think they should handle without the coaches, you know, that maybe we should be involved in. um But I think the more collaborative it can be, the better, just because then you truly are on the same page and you sort of know what's going on. So you guys can tackle this together.
00:26:23
Speaker
So that's sort of the biggest thing. But I but I also think with the votes um and them applying and us, you know, having these conversations. So it allows us to for people who want to be leaders who maybe didn't get voted to have pretty honest conversations about, you know, hey, I know you wanted this.
00:26:41
Speaker
You didn't get the votes. And some people have have sort of been confused at that. And we've had to had real conversations about, hey, you got X amount of votes. And so maybe.
00:26:52
Speaker
You know, what's coming off, you know, isn't isn't what you think it is. And I mean, I have to as a and I've said this to them every year, I get a review for my boss that sometimes, you know, you don't want to hear and it's a little tough, because you kind of have to look in the mirror.
Attitude, Effort, and Execution Framework
00:27:07
Speaker
And so I think as hard as those conversations are, I think the sort of application process is allows us to have some conversations with people who want to be leaders that maybe aren't coming off the right way to have them sort of, you know, change their leadership style a little bit.
00:27:23
Speaker
Yeah, self awareness is that first key step of leadership. and So their, their tonality is coming off. And maybe they're, they're only leading by example, and they think that's enough, all these different things.
00:27:38
Speaker
And this creates an opportunity now for the whole team to level up through your application process, because you can have these one on one conversations with, ah with all the people that are interested in believe that they are leaders.
00:27:53
Speaker
For the the people that don't believe they're leaders, what's some of your approaches for reading body language or the feel the energy of certain individuals where you can level them up, where you see leadership potential, but they don't believe in themselves quite yet?
00:28:11
Speaker
Yeah, that's a good question. I think um it's probably just through, you know, conversations um when when we see that. I mean, you know, I had a conversation with my one of my attackers the other day who is a returner. um You know, she kind of was not happy getting pushed around a little bit. And so I kind of, you know, got, you know, just was like, well, do you not think that this is going to happen in a game? Like, one, you're saying something to a freshman who's like probably scared anyways. But, you know, do you not think you're going pushed around in a game? You're, you know, like, so just having those conversations of of when, because, again, at the end of the day, they're still like they're still learning. They're still growing.
00:28:50
Speaker
So we're all going to make mistakes in this. But I think we do have to recognize when we when we make those mistakes and and sort of own up to them. One way we just for everybody sort of communicate and communicate expectations. But our three buckets are sort of attitude, effort, execution.
00:29:08
Speaker
So. It's just an easy way for us to say, again, to your point, someone works their butt off, they execute really, really well, but like their attitude isn't great. It's coming off in a you know a certain way. So we can say, hey, you you work harder than anyone else and you execute better than anyone else.
00:29:24
Speaker
And we got to work on this. or Or the reverse, hey, we love how hard you're working. Your attitude is spot on, but your execution is, you know, we got to fix that. So it's been a way the last few years that we've been able to just kind of be clear and concise with some of our conversations, whether it's leadership-based, skill-based, um or effort-based.
00:29:43
Speaker
Yeah, I like that. And I mean, it clarifies, and these are all opportunities. They can fix this themselves. It's not, hey, blaming somebody else, or hey, coach doesn't like me, or whatever it may be. These are all opportunities for them to hold the mirror up and self course correct to then get on track with with the team's vision and mission.
Punctuality and Professionalism
00:30:06
Speaker
I like that. where Where did these three come from? Did you have a ah whole list that then, no, let's just focus on these three. No, this was you, my, one of my assistants who came here, um this is her second year. So she, we brought that at the beginning last year and continued it this year. So um she brought that in and I loved it just because again, I think it's easy to get lost with your words, I think, you know, especially, and i actually had a conversation with the team um recently because I think vulnerability is, is huge, right. From, from them, but also from myself. And I said,
00:30:41
Speaker
You know, I struggle sometimes sort of talking to you guys about, you know, maybe if you're coming off selfish, we were kind of talking about um selfishness in ah in ah in a way. And I said, I really struggle sometimes.
00:30:54
Speaker
you know, having this conversation with you because I know it's going to come off wrong. I know you're going to think coach thinks I'm selfish. Coach doesn't, you know, like me coach thinks this. And I'm not saying that, but I know that's what you're going to hear. And so I need you to like, you know, sort of allow me to have this conversation with you when it's coming off that way, because I'm sure I'm not, I'm avoiding it. Like I'm not doing it because I know it's not going to go well. And so in order for us to be our best, I I have to be able to. So if you guys can give me some grace to know that, like, I don't think of this view as a person, it's just coming off right now.
00:31:27
Speaker
So, again, it was just a way to kind of allow me to lead them. Right. You know, in in the best way and allow them to to sort of receive that. But I think sometimes you have to just like be open and honest of like, look, I'm struggling with this. I think it's going to get us better, but you know, I'm struggling with X, Y, and Z. So I need your help with this, you know? and And I've had that conversation multiple times throughout the years with our team. I mean, time for one is a big thing for me of like being on time. And I really get pissed when we we don't. And so I had to be real. Like this was years and years ago. I was like, Can you guys just like start warming up on time? Because I'm starting practice already pissed off, which you don't want and I don't want. But like, it's just easy. Just start before, you know, right. You know, just start the warm up and not don't make me say it every day. You'll get a better version of me. And like, you know, we'll all be good. Like, please just do it. You know, so sometimes having those conversations, I think, is necessary to just be like a real human. This this is a big thing for me. So if you guys could be better, we're going to be good.
00:32:29
Speaker
Mm hmm. Yeah, I love that because you're you're modeling the expectation you want them to be vulnerable. So open to receiving coaching and then having grace for each other because girls are going to make mistakes during high pressure situations.
00:32:45
Speaker
How do they want others treating them? Certainly with grace. So then we should aim to treat each other with that same same respect. I spent a lot of time tre tackling culture killers, I refer to them as envy, resentment, entitlement.
00:33:03
Speaker
And these are all natural human tendencies. So it's important to just ah address them and, and You did a great job of just highlighting here of you being vulnerable and and saying things that really made you upset.
00:33:19
Speaker
You resent when people get late because that disrupts the practice plan. And now we have to make up that two minutes somewhere else. And that two minutes could be two reps that could. Yeah, i I get in that same spiral as well. But that is also you're painting the picture where.
00:33:36
Speaker
They're on your time, similar to when they go and start their professional careers in in the real world.
Preparing for High-Pressure Situations
00:33:43
Speaker
They're on their boss's time. So let's aim to make the most and and respect one another.
00:33:49
Speaker
So you're presenting that pressure and, i mean, giving a little attitude and aggression that is going to naturally come out in short, short moments during a game where you don't, you still want them to succeed and have passion, but it may be quick, uh,
00:34:05
Speaker
that may feel like a negative tone, but it's, no, I need this now. Yeah. So you're almost dosing that before. imagine you're doing it intentionally.
00:34:15
Speaker
So props for that, right? Before the the game tension and tone comes to the voice. Yeah, and I think you have to try to find ways to, again, like the heightened emotions of games, you know, and and sometimes, again, I understand that, you know, sometimes in practice it doesn't, you know, you can easily sort of make an excuse as to why it's not that important. But we say it all time, it's like we're preparing for that national championship, you know, again.
00:34:42
Speaker
mean, it's just... we're pushing you for that level, you know, and you have to be okay with it. And I think, again, as long as you continue to say, this is why I'm pushing you because I believe, and we say that all the time. It's like, I wouldn't be pushing an individual or the team if I didn't believe in them.
00:34:59
Speaker
If I knew they couldn't do it, I'm not going to, you know, sort of get on someone and say, run faster, work harder, you know, um execute better. But when I know that we can do it, that's when I'm going to be hard on us because again, like we know we have another level.
Managing Misunderstandings
00:35:13
Speaker
Mm-hmm. And have you ever had any athletes that they didn't feel that they may have felt attacked when coach is really pouring into them? They're they're confusing signals based off past experiences.
00:35:27
Speaker
Oh, yeah. is it And that's ah that same thing that I mentioned kind of before that, you know, I mean, again, i had someone very recently, you know, in a fitness test, um kind of her third rep of of the 300.
00:35:40
Speaker
i felt as if mentally she sort of gave up. And it was pretty clear to me. um And I grabbed her after and I said, hey, like I, you know, i I feel like regardless of whether you would have passed the test or not, I think you could have, you know, I think you could have got faster.
00:35:56
Speaker
I think you you sort of gave up mentally. I think, you know, I think you could have done better that third rep. Later, they came in my office and sort of said, I didn't do that. You know, I didn't give up. I didn't do that. I'm like, look, I'm not saying you I'm saying, know, I'm trying to push you to be better. Like I'm saying again, like national championship, if some, you know, your body language looks defeated, if your words coming out of your mouth sound defeated, I'm your opponent. I'm going to say, well, let's go like that we're winning. And there was like a big disconnect between her and I in that conversation, because I think she felt as if I was saying, you know, she didn't give full effort that she's, you know, constantly, you know, she's not strong mentally and all this stuff. I'm like, in that moment, I think you could, you know, like, that's what I'm pushing you to be. But I think a lot of times it's very easy and I don't fault them for this, but I think they feel attacked, you know, that like, I'm saying this is the person you are, or this is, you know, who you are. It's like, no, no, no, just in that, you know, we all can all make mistakes or all, you know, in moments need to learn and need to grow. So yeah, there's been disconnect, you know, and some conversations and hopefully we can then continue to find a way to meet in
Practice Focus and Skill Development
00:37:06
Speaker
the middle. But yeah, this definitely happened.
00:37:09
Speaker
Yeah, i I like that. i've I've talked with some other coaches recently and framing that as those emotions, that's energy in motion. If you feel that, I want you to turn that into action on the field or during the conditioning or during the practice field. So I don't want you to bottle it up because then it turns into a belief where you are that or you are labeling yourself as that versus that.
00:37:35
Speaker
I felt your effort was here. Well, we can change that because it it was just a feeling and then use that as motivation. yeah Yeah, that's that that's a good conversation and good on her for coming knocking on your door to to follow up on that that. That takes a lot of courage as well.
00:37:53
Speaker
okay um I want to speak to to practice. I love to spend time with practice. I'm a ah practice nerd. So how are you approaching and just organizing your practices within skill work or schemes, fundamentals versus, and I've i've seen some interviews where he introduces some chaos into stick drills.
00:38:16
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think I think every team is different, obviously, throughout the year is different. I mean, right now for the fall, it's a lot of skill development. We're really kind of honing in into like stick work to um to to trying new things, you know, just being a little more dynamic with sort of our stick work and our shooting and our footwork. And it's funny because even as a coach, sometimes like, I'm like, oh man, like it's a lot of, you know, not standing around, but it's like, I want to be able to get after it and do schemes and do all this stuff. But I sort of have to be okay with, you know, starting slow and focusing on the skill. And even today it was really cool. Like, you know, we' doing a lot of the stick work and, and again, it's going to look bad, right? It's going to get worse before it gets better. And we talked to the girls about that, but
00:39:02
Speaker
In live play, someone did something where they scored a goal that like we've been doing in stick work and everyone went nuts. And i was like, oh, yeah, like, awesome. You know what I mean? Like, so um definitely a lot of skill development right now. Just a lot of trying to get out of our comfort zones a little bit, try new things, just be a little more dynamic. And then we'll get into. sort of some schemes as as we get into our fall ball events and and things like that. But I, you know, I think skill development is so, so important. And so, again, you have to, you have to spend time on it. And and sometimes it feels like you're losing on the, you know, the bigger picture stuff. But, um you know, you've got to kind of start small first and then be ready to kind of go into the bigger stuff.
00:39:45
Speaker
Mm hmm. And when do you feel it's appropriate to mix in the, all the schemes and then install your
Mixing Skill Levels in Practice
00:39:53
Speaker
offense? Is it waiting on the spring or are you starting that in the fall?
00:39:57
Speaker
We'll start that in the fall. um You know, we'll get to a point where we'll get that in the fall. And typically we'll do like a big buildup, you know, if even if it's in a practice, like we'll do a shooting drill that's like the beginning of our play. And then we'll do, you know, the second step of it and the next drill. And then we're like, see, now we're going to put it all together. And, you know, now we're going to play live. So we try to really kind of break it down and and build it up just so that, They're getting more and more comfortable with it. um So that's kind of typically how we go. But yeah, i mean, before we start playing games in October, we'll need to you know have some semblance of ah of a structure. But again, I'm really trying to not think about that now and just focus on the skill.
00:40:36
Speaker
Yeah. And do you feel in organizing groups and drills, like there's sometimes not as skilled individuals that may be more athletics and you recruited them for potential. Like, how are you mixing up your groups to then get the most out of the the seniors, the finesse, the super skilled, and then the girls that are raw, but you just see great things out of?
00:41:00
Speaker
Yeah, I think, I mean, one thing even now we're like really trying to mix the groups, you know, ah last week we had a group of sort of all freshmen and we're like, no, you know, we need to, we need to mix it up. And I think it also, again, we're talking leadership, I think it allows the older players to help them communicate, you know, pull them along when you're playing with them and, And don't just say, I want to play with the older girls because we know know what we're doing. You know, we have to bring people along. And I think that's a leadership, you know, skill as well. And so um i think that's really important to sort of mix up those players. And again, like, you know, we obviously try to also do small stuff and bigger stuff because to your point, we have players that are a little bit better in bigger spaces. And so we need to give them confidence too while trying to, you know, improve their game and their stick work and things like that. But we definitely have that now. You know, there's some... athletes who are struggling, you know, in the smaller sort of drills and the stick work type stuff, because that's just not their style. But we're trying to sort of merge, you know, their style and, you know, the finesse piece.
Balancing Creativity and Fundamentals
00:42:02
Speaker
Yeah, I did write down style and quotation marks here, because that that's why i love lacrosse versus a a football where it's like, do your job, go one direction. Lacrosse, you can out athlete and you can mix it up and be so creative within that.
00:42:17
Speaker
But sometimes the style is not in line with fundamentals. So how do you as a coach allow this like creativity and style and expression of athleticism on the field versus the fundamentals with men's lacrosse, it's freaking sidearm and just getting these kids to to paint the fence sometimes. yeah um So what is that balance for you, for your team?
00:42:41
Speaker
Yeah, I think, well, and and right now I think we're trying to get more, you know, comfortable with more of that. um But I think you have to prove that you can do it, you know, in terms of sidearm, for example. I'm always like, not everyone can choose out not everyone can step down from the eight meter, you know, in women's lacrosse. Like, players can, and it's a great shot, but maybe not your skill set. So you have to prove it. And it has to be the right time and place. You know, I think sometimes I watch and, like, someone's ripping a behind the back when no one's in front of them, and it's like, well, we could also just score that. so I think there's a time and place and yeah you have to prove you have the skill set to do it.
00:43:14
Speaker
um But we want to get our players the skill you know the skill set to be able to do that. Because I do think just the way you know people are playing defense, and all you need to have different release points. You need to be able to sidearm. You need to be able to behind the back. And so there's a time and place. But I think it's important to to have that skill.
Promoting Train Heroic
00:43:31
Speaker
Time out.
00:43:32
Speaker
Text here at Train Heroic headquarters meeting with the team to talk about the coaching experience that I'm able to provide for my athletes. So if you're a coach and want to put your program out there on an app that athletes actually enjoy using, Train Heroics for you. I've been using it since 2014. delivering literally over tens of thousands of workouts to athletes.
00:43:54
Speaker
And Train Heroic allows me to provide the unique coaching experience that I want to. Uploading video, providing coaching feedback, directions, and building a community, that's why I love Train Heroic. And if you want to take your athletes where they can't take themselves, that they want to go, head to trainheroic.com slash captains and check out how you can deliver programming to them.
Lacrosse in the 2028 Olympics
00:44:16
Speaker
And now, back to the show. Ready, ready, and we're in.
00:44:21
Speaker
It's USA 2028 time. So lacrosse spoiler alert, lacrosse is going to be in the Olympics this year. However, it's a different game yeah and it's going to be a version of sixes. And I feel you're a great coach to take on this challenge. So it's new sport to the Olympics. Yeah.
00:44:41
Speaker
give and take a hundred years, new sport to the Olympics. And you were a new coach to start the USC program. So you're perfect fit. Explain to us the process to get this position and then what we can look forward to with the new version of this sport coming in 2028.
00:44:58
Speaker
So, I mean, I knew, you know, I was a part of the U S program for, for 10 years. And so I always knew i would love the opportunity to, to be a part of it again, as a coach, um you know, especially with taking on USC and,
00:45:11
Speaker
when I first, you know, retired and and that as a player, like I wasn't ready, right. I, I, I was focused on USC. You know, I, I needed to kind of be all in on that. So first of all, the timing for me was right, you know, feeling like, you know, I'm ready to to do this and then, you know, you have to apply. And so you have to sit through, you know, the interview process and, and talk about your vision and and what you see. But, um you know, again, getting that call again, I'm not proud, you know, too proud to admit like I teared up, like I was in the airport, I sat down, I had got the call and they said I got it. And i was like, Oh my God, you know, you're just tearing up and just emotional because it means a lot. And so to be able to be, you know, representing Team USA in this USA in this capacity is really special. and And it's an honor and it's not lost on me how how just grateful that I am.
00:46:00
Speaker
Six is is so fun. And so when we're talking about creativity and skill and, you know, it is couldn't be the epitome of that even, you know, it's just it's fast.
00:46:12
Speaker
It's back and forth. But you really do have the ability to to sort of showcase the incredible skill of these athletes. I mean, it is. you know, sure, you're shooting, you know, overhand, but you're on breakaways and you're faking and you're throwing behind the backs between the legs, like all of it. It's really fun to watch. it's It's really exciting. And so it's been really fun learning the sport. And to your point, too, it's been really fun working with the players on what they're seeing, you know, because I'm, you know, i haven't competed in sixes. So We need their, you know, their feedback. We need their expertise on, Hey, what are you guys seeing out there? How are you feeling? What is the subbing? Like, what do you need to do? So a lot of back and forth conversations with them on kind of how to collaborate and and how we can be our best.
Team USA Selection Process
00:47:00
Speaker
And how many, i know there's six on the field. How many girls are on the team that are total go to represent the country? Yeah, it's only 12 players. So it's, you know, I think in my opinion, the hardest team to make, um you know, the the selection process for we were in China this summer for the world games, that selection process is so hard. I mean, again, there's so many great players. There's so many talented players and we're trying to navigate this. And so it's really difficult decision, but again, that's where you want to be, right? You want to have really tough decisions as a coach as to, you know, the makeup of this team and and how we can go and, We're still learning with it um in terms of, you know, the kind of players we want and need and and all of that. But, yeah, it's been really exciting.
00:47:44
Speaker
And what are the tryout stages going to be here? We had World Games and we got, i mean, only a couple summers left before it's go time. Yeah, so so the the U.S. system isn't doing sort of ah a true tryout process anymore. It's sort of a player pool that you can continue to invite. two different kind of training camps. um So you have this ability to sort of invite new people, um you know, pull from old players, you know, you can kind of, the makeup could be anything you want. So typically a training camp is 24 players. And then, you know, if, and when we have events that we need to choose 12, you know, that would be the number there. So it allows us, and and obviously we have a a number of young players that are coming through the mix. So these training camps do allow to say, Hey,
00:48:28
Speaker
because they're they're also timeline wise. Sometimes, I mean, our next event is end of September. So in two weeks and college kids are still playing with their colleges. So sometimes it's, Hey, you know, come to training camp for a few days, but then go play with your colleges that weekend. You know, it's not this crazy, stressful tryout process. It's, Hey, let's get you in the mix with sixes. You haven't been to a camp before. Let's start to get you comfortable. And then, you know, you can go back to your college. We're going to play this event with, you know, we're,
00:48:55
Speaker
for the event in September, we're taking the 12 that, you know, that played and won a gold medal. Um, and we'll have other people at camp to start, you know, being in the mix with, um, with sixes and our, our style and and things like that.
International Competition Experience
00:49:09
Speaker
And how important do you feel that world competition experience is leading up to the Olympics? Yeah, you can't, it's huge, um, to, to play international competition is really important. Um, I think every country is very, very different, I think, in terms of how they play and sort of how you need to um navigate, you know, so you can play your best. But the pressure of, you know, a gold medal game, it's like you can't replicate that. And so and and, you know, we learned lessons, I think, both as a team, but also individuals throughout that, you know, individuals who maybe had, you know, not their best game, but also then let it affect them, you know, mentally. And so, you know, I had to have conversations to say, because, again, These are players that I don't know super, super well in terms of that level yet. And so it was like, hey, how can I help you? Because I knew you were, you know, going a little bit in your head.
00:50:02
Speaker
I didn't really know how to get you out of it. I don't know what you need. You know, here's what I, you know, what do you think? And so we had those conversations. But again, that international competition gives you that heightened pressure of, okay, you know, we got to
Fostering Team Unity
00:50:15
Speaker
execute. And if I'm not execute, what can I do to help my team? Mm-hmm.
00:50:19
Speaker
And now going back to one of my earlier questions where you were captain of USA and had the challenge of bringing everyone together and and leading from that, what are steps you taking now as head coach of that team to help and keep them as as tight as glue as can be over the next few years to really have a gelling team in the right time?
00:50:40
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, i think the really cool thing about, you know, this experience in China that we had, we had training camp at USC and then we went over um over there, but it's only 12 players. So it's like, you have to be connected. There's only 12 of you. So we kept joking because every time we'd go, we're like, is everyone here? Oh, yep. You know, that that's it. You barely have to pay attention because there's only 12. And I kind of tasked them in the beginning before our first game of coming up with, you know, sort of a theme, a word, a phrase, you know, to um that they could go back to, you know, in these moments. And so, and I think, um you know, with that, it was like, hey, you don't have to like, let's, let's talk about this now, but we don't have to decide this yet. You know, like i think sometimes when I love, you know, a word phrase, you know, um theme that connects, I think it's important that the players, you know, I could bring one as a coach, but I also think it's important that the players sort of have their own But I also think a lot of times that can't happen meeting one, you know, and and for USC, it might not even happen in the fall, it might happen in April, you know, but for Team USA, they came back, the, think it was going into the, ah the playoffs, so the last two games, and so they presented what they, um you know, what they felt and what they wanted to be, and
00:51:58
Speaker
again, to the point of connection and all of that, I mean, you know, they, they were together, you know, they wanted it to be, you know, they, it was link up, you know, like link up, like, let's be together. Like we're all together, you
Captain Selection in Team USA
00:52:09
Speaker
know? um And so that was something that resonated with them because of their connection, because of how close they were, because they know that, you know, again, um their whole, you know, the collective is better than, you know, the sum of its parts, but you know, it they,
00:52:23
Speaker
they really bought into that and it was something that they sort of came up with, which, which I thought was awesome. Yeah. Like, I like that. or link up. I mean, it's that one word cue to get your mind right. And you're only as strong as your weakest link. There's there's some depth and layers to it.
00:52:39
Speaker
um I'm curious on your approach to Team USA and then Team Captain. So I've had on the podcast, Nicole Haverland, she was Team USA Women's Rugby Captain.
00:52:49
Speaker
She's been to three Olympics, but when her captaincy, it just so happened to be two years, but it was in an off rotation of the Olympics. So they run captains every two years. Could be one woman could be two, but she was leading the team just in international competitions, just not the Olympics. So shout out, Nicole, these are her ah World Cup cleats behind me, but nice what's your approach to selecting and having this captain for this, this inaugural Olympics?
00:53:20
Speaker
Yeah, so I think, I mean, again, i guess I don't have a plan going into 28 yet, you know, but what we did do for China is kind of similarly. We had the girls vote, you know, it was, hey, you know, what do you guys think? Who do you want to vote for? um And so we tallied those votes and and there were two captains that were that were chosen. i think the coolest thing, though, about that was everyone was a leader. I mean, you know, that the two captains that were chosen again, there was probably another third that was probably the main voice in all the huddles, you know, and and getting people fired up and getting people together. So we did choose two and that was awesome and and they did a great job. But I think, again, everyone has to be a leader. And so to to give people sort of some leeway on on being a voice, you know, aside from that was was important.
Olympic Facilities and USC
00:54:11
Speaker
That's awesome. Yeah. And I mean, learning experience for everyone, even coach. Yep. Is, I mean, y'all just built a a beautiful new facility. Is the Olympics going to be hosted on campus? Do you get the home home field advantage?
00:54:24
Speaker
So um slightly, we are going to be at um it's BMO stadium, which is right, right next to the Coliseum. So it's right next to USC campus. We actually got to do a tour of BMO with the sixes squad. And then we went to a soccer game there later that evening. So just a cool opportunity to,
00:54:46
Speaker
walk on the field, to see the locker rooms, to see this space that again in 2028, you know, lacrosse will be at. That's, that's amazing. I'll be there men's and women's, uh, just fandom decked out and all the flags, all the good stuff. Yeah.
00:55:01
Speaker
Um, if, if people want to continue to follow and learn how you're building and leading your team, where should they go? Yeah. I mean, Really just through Instagram right now, USC Trojans Lacks could use some more, you know, shoot a follow, see all the the crazy things we're doing. um And then, you know, I have an Instagram, Lindsay Monday, you know, personal and USC. But ah but yeah, follow USC, follow Team USA.
00:55:28
Speaker
Big, big things coming for for USA and USC. Can't wait.
Engagement on Social Media
00:55:33
Speaker
So thank you for your time connecting us. And then the lacrosse strength conditioning is taken off. So shout out to Nicole, just being a part Team USA and helping the the women get geared up.
00:55:45
Speaker
Yeah. Awesome. Shout out, Nicole. All right. Thank you for your time. Thank you. And listeners, thank you for tuning in. Bye. and scene. Thank you for tuning in to another episode the Captains and Coaches podcast. If you like what you heard here today, be sure to rate and review the show.
00:56:03
Speaker
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00:56:19
Speaker
Check it out. Rip the Old Bull program. Captain's and Coaches. Thank you for tuning in and helping us raise the game. Ready, ready, and ready. See you.