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21 | Navigating the Highs and Lows of Entrepreneurship with the Inspiring Jessica Knighton
17 Plays7 days ago
On this week’s episode, we have THE inspiring Jessica Knighton. Jess is a wedding, engagement, and proposal photographer based in the Twin Cities capturing love stories and intimate moments for conscious, fun-loving couples. She has also helped immensely with the branding side of both of our businesses.
If you took the word "photography" out of what Jess does, you could describe her as someone who creates safe and safe spaces that allows individuals to connect, be seen, and heard so that they can celebrate the most authentic version of themselves.
Outside of photography, Jess can be found hanging out with her husband Jake and their sweet tabby cat, Fitzgerald, here in Minneapolis. She is inspired by community which is why she spends her free time as a runner on the Mill City Race Team, a clinic escort with ProChoice MN, and as an election judge for Saint Louis Park. Being of service to others is her love language and she loves to support people so that they never feel alone.
This podcast offers a wealth of information including Jess's journey with starting a photography business as well as the highs and lows she has experienced during her entrepreneurship journey thus far.
Episode Resources:
- Website: https://jessicaknighton.com/
- Instagram: @jess.knighton
- Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jessicaknightonphotography
Follow us on Instagram @weget2dothispod
Email us questions/comments at weget2dothis@gmail.com
Check out the video portion of our show at https://www.youtube.com/@weget2dothis
For business information hit up the links below:
- Dr. Kailee Acupuncture Website
- Oak Endurance Website
LASTLY -> If you enjoyed the show, please like, comment, subscribe and consider giving us a 5-star review wherever you listen or watch :-)
We Get 2 Do This!
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Transcript
Intro
00:01:48
Speaker
Hello, and welcome to the We Get To Do This podcast. My name is Kaylee. And I'm Jacob. And we are your co-hosts. In this show, we're going to dive into all things our lives, from our partnership, to romance, to entrepreneurship, to growing our businesses together, our fitness journeys. And we're going to have a ton of different guests on that relate to what I just said in some way. We're hoping you enjoy the show. And if you do,
00:02:11
Speaker
Please feel free to follow us, leave us a five-star review on wherever you listen to your podcasts and enjoy. And if you don't like the show, tough. Thank you. Thanks. Episode 21 with a very special guest.
00:02:27
Speaker
Yeah, we haven't had a guest in a while. This is exciting. No, we have not. And this is, as we learned today, our first time having a guest with both of us on. So we got to experience a lot of fun technical difficulties in the beginning. Yeah. And this is like our fourth try recording. And Jess is still with us. ah council Thanks for coming today, Jess. Thanks for having me. I'm super pumped. Honored, really. I think we scheduled this Two months ago? That's been a while. Just been, you know, looking forward to this for a long time. So I'm glad. Jess, can you start off and give the audience just a little brief intro on who you are, what you do, why you do it. What makes you you? Yeah, totally. um Yeah, my name is Jess, officially Jess Knyton.
00:03:26
Speaker
Yeah, I'm a wedding photographer in the Twin Cities area. Um, I kind of fell into that after a number of different career attempts, I'll say. Um, but yeah, and I, um, you know, what else do you want to know? I do. Yeah, I've met you both through like the running community and, um, yeah, I think I just try to look for like,
00:03:52
Speaker
you know, not a hundred percent like-minded people, but people who want to grow and like support each other and just like be a fun and supportive community. um And so yeah, I feel like weddings and running have that in common. So it's like a fun place to be. Yeah. And you, I think you have a very unique background story because you did not start with photography right off the bat, correct? On a high school, you took a very different route through the Navy.
00:04:22
Speaker
yeah was Tell us about what that was like and a brief synopsis through that and why and how you ended up with photography specifically. Yeah, I think it's I mean, it's definitely been a long journey here. I know journey is like one of our overused words, but it's really what it was. um So yeah, basically like graduating high school. um At the time I was going to be like president of the United States, obviously.
00:04:51
Speaker
um yeah good brother Yeah, exactly. So I was going to go to school to be a lawyer. But as we know, like going to school is really expensive. And I was like afraid of the number of dollars that it would take to get that. um And so I heard about this program, ROTC, they send you to college, they give you a job. I'm like, wow, what a steal.
00:05:16
Speaker
Um, and, but I didn't know like the difference between like enlisted an officer in the military. So I went to a recruiter and they were like, yeah, yeah, we'll help you apply for that scholarship. But also what if you don't get it? Like, do you still want a job basically? Yeah. Um, in the military, same idea is like college standardized tests gives you kind of job placement. So I scored really high in like math and science, which hopefully it's changed a little now, but they like,
00:05:46
Speaker
looked at me and were like, Oh my God, you like you're good at these things. So anyway, um, I ended up going the enlisted route. I was an electrician and the nuclear field for that six years. So basically like anything from maintenance to like operating an electrical grid on an aircraft carrier. Um, so yeah, did that for awhile. I thought it was kind of interesting and fun. So I went to college after that for math and physics with the goal of becoming a teacher. And then like, um, basically got toward the end of my bachelor's degree and was just like really struggling mentally. Like, I don't think I can handle two more years of school. I need a break. I need a job. So I did that. I worked in like energy markets for three years with this kind of like, you know, understanding of how electrical generation occurs and then also having like this math degree.
00:06:47
Speaker
Did that for a while. And then, that's when I started photography. So prior to graduating from college, I always had a creative outlet, which tended to be music. I play violin. And I don't know, maybe you guys didn't know that. I didn't know that. I definitely did not know that. My music tattoo on my arm, that's what that is.
00:07:10
Speaker
So um yeah, basically like started this job, worked there for like a year. And then I was like, okay, like this is analytical and that's cool, but like, I need something else. I need to i need some creative outlet. And I tried sewing because my mom like quilts and I was like, that can't be too hard, but it's like really hard. And it's very isolating, right? Like you have to sit in a room by yourself and like cut patterns and this is not for me. I'm too extroverted for that.
00:07:38
Speaker
Um, and then Jake and I, so Jake's my husband who is how I know you Jacob, um, for people who don't know. Um, but, uh, we were coming up on our 10 year wedding anniversary around that time as well. And, um, I'd like been casually, you know, photographing for a while. And then we met this photographer out in the world and he was like so cool and chill.
00:08:07
Speaker
And he was like a part-time nurse and a part-time photographer. And I was like, oh my gosh, like regular people do this. And we had such a good experience with him. And he did like a couple of session with us and shot our wedding anniversary. And I just loved looking at the photos and being like, wow, this is like who we are at this time. And it was like,
00:08:30
Speaker
I don't know, I had like wrinkles on my eyes and you know like everybody has like their silly laughing face or whatever, but I was just like this is like, this is who we are. And I was so excited about that. And I was like, this is what I wanna do. I wanna make people feel like I feel now. And um so yeah, when I was working downtown, I would meet this like photographer out at lunch and he like taught me how to shoot in manual. And then I would just like practice and practice and practice and watch YouTube. and Um, took a couple of classes through MCTC. And yeah, it just really like clicked with me. I tried, you know, individuals, kids, families, seniors, all number of things, but weddings and couples are like the one that stuck with me. I feel like I connect with couples really well. I like understand the couple life, um, and stuff like that. So.
00:09:23
Speaker
Yeah, um and then it was just about like connecting with other people and finding work and stuff like that and kind of like you guys talked about, right? Like figuring out why that was a good fit for me and what I wanted to accomplish, right? Such a saturated market, um photographers in general, but also weddings and to like figure out who I am in that space without like copying anybody or burning out and stuff like that. So, um, yeah, I remember our photographer, his name was Jeff. Um, he asked me when I first started, he was like, why do you want to do weddings? Like they're too hard to do if you don't know why you want to do it. It's like too much work. They're too stressful if you can't figure out why you want to do them. So I thought about it for a long time, but I still feel like I'm trying to figure it out. I know I love them. Um, but yeah, so that's kind of how I got here.
00:10:23
Speaker
It's been a long road from president to wedding photographer. Wow. sure Entrepreneurship is so interesting to me because you have my brother, for example, who's a filmographer.
00:10:34
Speaker
yeah when i For his eyes, I can remember he's been into film, specifically film. It started out with like, he loved movies when we were growing up as kids, like seven year old, right? And then he got his first camera at like 10, 11. And then like him and his buddies were making YouTube videos and he loved making film for the longest time, right? Then you have yourself, I'm like this too, who from, and correct me if I'm wrong, but for what I'm hearing, you're
00:11:07
Speaker
the Your craft is your means of showing your passion. And what I mean by that is like my brother, his passion was video and he found it like immediately, right? And for me, for example, I love helping people and creating community and personal training and run coaching is a means for me to do that. And it sounds kind of like, and from what I know about you, photography is your means of basically giving individuals a voice and making them feel heard and seen and comfortable. And I think it's cool that when you do that, but also how entrepreneurship, we can find our like talents through those kinds of two different separate ways. Yeah. I think that, I think you hit the nail on the head there. And I don't know if I've ever thought about it like that. Cause I've always been like, I want to help people. And even when I was in the military, it was like,
00:12:02
Speaker
okay, what can I do to help my shedmates? And then you know in college, how can I like work with my classmates to achieve what we want to achieve? And then you know when I was in corporate, I was on a team. I was like, okay, I'm done with my things, or so-and-so is late, so like what can I do to help them? you know like Yeah, because if you're running late for work, you're already in a frazzlement.
00:12:27
Speaker
and Yeah. So I think, I think that's totally correct. Um, and you know, probably for all three of us, like there's a number of things we could do, but kind of what we are doing is how we have found is our best. Yeah. Like maybe talent to be able to help other people with what they want. Right. Like Pat would be able to do it. Totally. So do you, this could be my ADHD kind of brain, but I,
00:12:59
Speaker
like struggle to do one thing. like ah and And it's like, ah do you you see photography as your, I mean, last thing you do professionally or do you ever think about, again, kind of what I was just saying there, your mission in life? Are there other avenues that I want to do or could you, and turn those also into other businesses or hobbies or whatever? That's such a good question.
00:13:25
Speaker
um I've thought a little bit past photography for a hot second, especially weddings, like as much as I love them, they are pretty physically taxing. And I think people do them for enough time where they're like, I want my weekends back. um But like right now, you know, with my lifestyle, I'm perfectly fine with that. um Jake and I have talked about, you know, is like a small venue ownership, something we could do in the future.
00:13:54
Speaker
um But I do other things ah outside of photography that I feel like is enough variety for me right now that fulfills that still helping. So um I am an election judge. So anytime there's an election, I'm like at the polls, you know, greeting people and like, again, helping them vote. So like, are you in the right spot? Let's get to the right spot. Are you registered? Okay. Like, let's get you registered. Um,
00:14:24
Speaker
And that type of thing. And then, um, I haven't done it so much in the last probably six months or so, but, um, I've done like clinic escorting with pro-choice Minnesota. So like helping patients who are seeking healthcare safely get into a clinic. Um, and so, yeah, I think all of those things like follow the same theme, but it's like different ways of expressing. Yeah. The wanting to help like.
00:14:54
Speaker
Yeah, who needs help? Okay, like I'll be there. But yeah, I don't know. um I could see, I think I could see more than like switching away from photography, like a change or a shift. Even now, like, I've been in weddings long enough that I have clients who are starting families and im buying house or getting a puppy or whatever. And like, being able to follow those milestones of those couples is still really special to me.
00:15:23
Speaker
So I think like, and this is kind of a common trajectory, I think of wedding photographers as you start becoming a milestone photographer and maybe like wane off the weddings and then stay with your couples still. But yeah, I don't know. I've never, like, I always think I can think 10 years ahead, but I can't. It's wild. And you've even helped us, like both of our websites and all of our materials are from your photography too.
00:15:53
Speaker
So it's cool that you have so many different avenues. and I really, yeah, those are so fun for me too. Like working with small businesses. Um, yeah, especially like you guys, cause I, and I feel like I know your business as well, you know, cause I'm around you a lot. So it's like fun to be like, Oh, you know, how do we, how do we show like Kaylee does acupuncture and it's not scary or and that it's like calming or Yeah, like still sharing our personal stories and like what we're trying to do for our patients and clients. And I feel like you're just very good at doing that and helping other people express themselves how they want these things. You are.
00:16:41
Speaker
When did you start your business again? How long do you want? Yeah. um My first official paid client was in summer of 2019. So just over five years. You hit the five year mark. Yeah. So that one says like, if you can get to five years, that's when things like really get good. And I feel like you've hit that way before five years and like your diamond award that you got this past year. I mean, you've already hit like a lot of huge milestones, like drain your career career already. And.
00:17:20
Speaker
It's impressive that you've done all of that in less than five. And we talk about how like a lot of people I think give up before that happens. And like, I feel like we've talked to you about this too, and just kind of like the struggles of being an entrepreneur, but no like, did you ever, leading up to this time, did you ever kind of question like, why am I doing this? Cause you've been also working another job while you've been doing this.
00:17:50
Speaker
Yeah. um Yeah. So I guess for listeners, I think you guys probably know this, but yeah. So my energy market job, I worked there for three and a half years. And when I quit, since I was working for myself, I stayed on like retainer with them as a contractor to kind of help with the transition. And then I took a year. Well, I meant to leave forever, but, um,
00:18:19
Speaker
So yeah, I like stopped contracting for them in about fall 22. And then around a year ago, they were working on another transition hardship. And so they called me and I was like, you know what? And I thought that would be a good balance. Like it's still a team. It's an analytical work. I kind of like staying in touch with the energy market. Like it's interesting to me. Um, so yeah, I work there super part time, like a couple hours every morning.
00:18:48
Speaker
That's what I was doing before I started talking to you guys today. um So yeah, I think that kind of like satisfies my like, oh, I like programming and I like problem solving. And, um you know, another huge part of my photography business is sustainability. And to like, keep my eye on like, what is the, you know, renewable portfolio for like mid-continent look like and, you know,
00:19:17
Speaker
What's the new rules in Minnesota and all that? Like it's kind of fun to keep my eye on all of that. um But yeah, so I do both. um I would consider myself like a full-time photographer with like a part-time analyst job probably at this point. um But yeah, I think what I ran into in that year when I was just a photographer or like solely a photographer is it can be really isolating You know, like I think a lot of people think, Oh, you get to like be with your clients all the time. You're always at an event. You're always at a wedding, blah, blah, blah. But like, I'm at a wedding like maybe Friday and Saturday and then the rest of the week I'm sitting right here at my computer. Like maybe I have a couple of meetings or something, but as I mentioned before, like I'm super extroverted. So I think that has been the biggest struggle for me is like, how do I find consistent and reliable community?
00:20:14
Speaker
Cause I mean, people do entrepreneurship for many reasons, right? Maybe it's just the best fit for you. Maybe it's like the flexibility of it. Maybe they're just trying it out and, um, to like be able to find people to like, almost be your coworkers, if that makes sense. Cause otherwise you just get sad. You're like, I'm alone all the time. Such a bummer. So yeah, I think that's definitely been like the hardest part and working or like taking my mornings and working back at this company. Like I get a little bit of that social interaction every morning and I'm like, okay, now I can send my computer alone for a while. But yeah, and then also like forcing myself to be part of other communities, right? So like running. And then recently I've started um CrossFit. So like making sure that I take care of myself, not only physically, but putting
00:21:10
Speaker
like almost double dipping, right? Like putting that physical activity in a group so that you have to like be around other people, you know? So yeah, it's, it's a lot of like problem solving, like figuring out like, why do I feel the way I feel? And then like, how do I manage that or whatever? So yeah, I don't know if you guys feel that way too, whatever. I definitely feel a lonely part. oh wait yes's That's like surprising to me. Yeah.
00:21:41
Speaker
Yeah. it I mean, that's why like working in a gym with other trainers can be fun. There's definitely perks to like the the gym model of training. yeah When I stopped working in a gym setting and was more in a studio setting with just a few other trainers running their own businesses, then it got a little bit more lonely, I would say.
00:22:05
Speaker
But I mean, similar to what you're kind of saying, and especially with me, a lot of my clients, I i see them once a week. And even if I see them three times a week, like it's, it's it's It's the one hour of the day. right It's not like I'm spending the whole day with them. right Whereas with co-workers and whatnot, a lot of times you spend like hours upon hours with them. you know Or if I do a class or something, it's just for the one hour. And there's a lot of variety. And even if I have like a 10 or 11 hour day, it's like my 4 o'clock client is not my 7 o'clock client in the morning. right it's It's very different every hour.
00:22:41
Speaker
um And I definitely feel like like a lot of times that can that can be isolating. you know and Yeah, you can only go so deep with people in that amount of time. Correct. And one so and that's another that's an interesting point, though, too, because I do actually feel like a lot of clients over time we do form pretty deep relationships. that's That is one benefit of like where I with the the kind of structure my business versus like Kaylee. Like for Kaylee a lot of times that's let's get to a point where people come and see me once a month, maybe once every other week, where I might see people three times a week for years straight. yeah right It's just a little bit different of a business model. um And so there is like that, you know,
00:23:31
Speaker
deeper relationship with some people for sure. But I think that, you know, back to the like the isolating side of things. The other thing that gets hard is, I think you kind of hinted at this already, but entrepreneurship requires
00:23:47
Speaker
a certain mindset slash it kind of forces you to think a certain way and think about things a little differently. And I feel as though entrepreneurs need other entrepreneurs to talk to and communicate with so that they kind of understand how they feel day to day. I think that as well became can become isolating. Especially if you're in like this kind of like, if you're doing the full-time thing and then you transition to the entrepreneurship, think they call it I think they call it the lonely phase or whatever is the word for it. But there's like this period of time where you're like, you don't really have entrepreneurs and these new people yet that you know that are also doing something similar and yeah very hard to navigate those waters and like who you go to and whatnot. And depending on like Kaylee, you probably could speak to this, but
00:24:36
Speaker
in my family. my dad was an entrepreneur, my uncle was an entrepreneur, my brother's an entrepreneur, my step-uncle's an entrepreneur, my step-dad had a tax company where he was running his own tax. like i have a lot of I was lucky I had a lot of role models that well were entrepreneurs, but you know I'm not sure what your experience with that's been, but I know Kaylee, you can speak to this, but you didn't have that. So I mean i imagine that was maybe a little lonely at first too. Yeah, and intimidating.
00:25:07
Speaker
Cause I came from a family of mostly teachers, police officers, people who are working like for a big system. And I'm kind of the first one that I know of really that I'm around that like stepped out of that. And then I feel like even more imposter syndrome coming in. Cause it's like, well, who am I to like be doing this when I could have stayed as a nurse working for the healthcare care system.
00:25:35
Speaker
gotten paid well, have very good job security benefits, and stepping out of that realm can be really scary. did you What's your family like background? um My parents, so my dad's worked for the same, he's retired now, but he worked for the same like steel manufacturer like probably before I was born, I think. And so like union benefits, you know, like he had some health issues during COVID and they were like, okay, man, like you're kind of old and stuff. So why don't you just like go home for a bit? And then when this like blows over where you can come back to work, like, you know, it was hard manual labor, but I think they took really good care of him. My mom, um,
00:26:30
Speaker
I actually just learned this in the last few years. She has an associate or a bachelor's degree in computer science from the late 70s. And then I was like, but you have done preschool teaching and accounting and all these random jobs. What happened? And she was like, oh, I didn't really see it going anywhere. And I was like, oh my god. But anyway, now I know where my programming mind and my math mind comes from. But I was like, this is unbelievable.
00:26:59
Speaker
But anyway, um, so yeah, I mean, they've always worked for somebody else. Um, Jake's parents too, you know, like I, I don't know if I knew anybody, like any of my friend's parents or anybody growing up who own their own business. Interesting. Yeah. Did you get, I'm not, I speak for Kaylee again here, but like,
00:27:23
Speaker
When I mentioned starting a business, I really didn't get any pushback. That was one thing in life that I never got pushback on. Like it wasn't like, are you sure you want to do this? Like this other career is very safe. And you know, I know Kaylee has received some of that. Did you receive that? Was that something that you got when you wanted to start your own business? Weirdly no. But I think honestly, I think it's because of Jake's job where they're like, and also, I mean,
00:27:53
Speaker
Jake and I have such a weird, I don't know, like we got here so unusually. I feel like, you know, like we started dating at the very end of high school. I was already enlisted in the military. Like when he asked me out, I was like, I'm leaving in four months for bootcamp. And he was like, I know. And we started dating anyway. And so, but yeah, so at 18,
00:28:22
Speaker
I roll out to boot camp. He goes to the U for like one semester. And then he came to my graduation and I was supposed to move to Charleston, South Carolina. And he was like, hey, if I can move out there, do you want me to? And I was like, yeah. And he was like, okay, cool. I already applied to school. I'm like, I'll move out there in the spring. And like, we're 18 year old, but that's crazy. do if you If some like teenager came and told you that today, like what would you say to them?
00:28:52
Speaker
No.
00:28:57
Speaker
Since one of the, one of your themes for this podcast is romance. No, but, um, we haven't gotten into that, but we talk about that in, in our little intro clip. We just, we haven't had a lot of the romance. Let's bring the romance in. yeah yeah so more of my love story But yeah, so like, even, you know, then like, I think,
00:29:20
Speaker
His parents met in high school, so they were like, these two men in high school, they think they want to get married, like totally normal. And my parents, you know, I think my mom was a little more skeptical. You know, she always taught, I have three sisters, and she always taught all of us like, you need to be like your own individual person before you connect yourself to another person. And like, you know, my parents love Jake, but they were like,
00:29:44
Speaker
Like, yeah, you're 18. What do you know? And I think as an adult now, like I'm like, well, they were probably right. And we just like happened to make it. but um yeah So we he moved to Charleston with me. like Six months later, we got married. and like um And then we moved to New York, to San Diego. like We figured all of this stuff out. And Jake like still graduated college on time, moving that many times.
00:30:14
Speaker
And so I think because of like how we got to this point in our lives, it's just like, oh, you wanna like start a photography business? Like that seems fine. Like all the weird stuff you guys have done before has worked out to like, I don't know, nobody really has like said anything. So yeah, it is kind of strange though, isn't it?
00:30:41
Speaker
So, I mean, your story's wild. When I first told you and told Kaylee about you two, I remember saying, their love story's wild. You gotta ask about it. It's insane. Sometimes, like, you ever think about, like, a part in your life or, like, a time in your life, and you're like, was that real? Or did I, like, make that up? That's how I feel about my entire dollar.
00:31:09
Speaker
It's just so crazy. But yeah, so I didn't really get question. In fact, I think like Jake's grandparents, because I, I left my job in October 21. And like, I think like our Christmas card for that year from his grandparents was like, congrats, Jess. I'm like your photography business. And I was like, Oh, that's so nice. Yay. Yay me.
00:31:37
Speaker
So, but yeah, I mean, And I don't know if that's like, yeah, because we have successfully gotten to this point in life and like been fine. Or if it's like, well, at least Jake still has a job with health insurance. Do you know what I mean? Like, and we have a house, you know, we had very little responsibilities to be honest, but yeah, so I'm not sure which one it is. Interesting. Well, what we've talked a lot about, like the positives, I feel as though what,
00:32:08
Speaker
What's been hard in your journey specifically, entrepreneurship or anything? what what do you and What sticks out as being hard the past five plus years? Yeah, hard. I mean, definitely like the isolation.
00:32:24
Speaker
um I wouldn't usually consider myself a very creative person. ah So like, I think, yeah, you kind of mentioned like people like your brother who was like, film is the thing. Right. I'm not like photography is the thing, right? So I have to like, I have to try really hard to be creative. I think I can like, make people feel comfortable and stuff like that. But then I'm like, okay, like on the art side, like, how do I develop the art side so that
00:32:55
Speaker
you know You look at your photos and you're like, oh, I really love this and this is unique or have like those like fun thoughts. And then um yeah learning everything it takes to run a business, right? like Okay, so yeah, you want to make people feel good and take pretty pictures and stuff, but also you have to learn accounting. You have to make sure you pay your quarterly tax estimates on time. How did you even learn about quarterly tax estimates? What does that mean? You know what I mean? I'm always afraid of the IRS coming after me.
00:33:34
Speaker
and yeah
00:33:37
Speaker
or like figuring out the new rules. So like this year there was like that BOIR filing. And like, I think I just happened to hear it so many times that I was like, this is important. Did you hear that? They cut that. It like got struck down in court. So now it's got to tell you that. I mean, it'll come back, but but they're right like things like that. It's like, there's no like one place where you go and you're like, this, these are all the steps that you need to do. Yeah.
00:34:06
Speaker
And it's so hard. yeah Totally. Um, a lot of like comparing and, um, a little bit of an imposter phenomenon, like, you know, just kind of like the, all of the getting in your head, finding the right clients, like, and I'm sure Jacob, I don't know. I'm probably for you too, Kaylee, like finding people who you really connect with, like, um, especially with photography, like.
00:34:37
Speaker
While I love to think that I can serve anyone, it's just not the case, right? Like, when you're gonna be a good personality fit, when you're gonna be a good style fit, like if you wanna like super vogue editorial photos, like I'm not your girl. I'm like, that's okay, right? And so like being like, well, you don't have to be everything to everyone. It's okay to refer people out.
00:35:03
Speaker
um But then how do you find the people who are a good fit, right? Who are like aligns with your values and like appreciates your craft and that type of thing. Do you so like are they feel like that came later or to feel like usually at the beginning, it's like you're just trying to get business, right? Yeah. um is that like do you feel like that came
00:35:35
Speaker
after a couple of years where you're like, okay, these are like not a good fit. And like, how would it, I don't know, feel like for people starting, and like, how do you know that? Yeah, I mean, I for sure started out more with like friends, you know, people from college or high school who are getting married.
00:35:55
Speaker
um But yeah, I think luckily I, I think I surround i like was able to surround myself with the right people when I started. on So I was looking for people who represented diversity already in their portfolios, people who like had a business with a value. And then I would contact them and be like, hey, can I shoot with you? um And kind of learn how they showed their values, right? so like
00:36:28
Speaker
um And then I could say, okay, well, and then these are my values and I can talk about them. And then if people, you know, with like sustainability and inclusion, I can, you know, the inclusion you can show on your portfolio um and the sustainability thing. I mean, you guys follow me on Instagram. It's like every other post, right? um And if people are like, oh, sustainability, like who cares? They're not going to like me. People who do are like,
00:36:56
Speaker
wow, Jess cares about the same stuff as me. And like, I know that like we're going to go down the same path together. And so I think like, and I started that pretty early. So that is good. Um, you know, sometimes like, sometimes I'll find people are a good personality fit for me, but maybe are not like a good sustainability fit for me. And then I have to ask myself like, you know,
00:37:24
Speaker
we do this because we want our work days to be fun or like nice. And I got to say, like when I go to a wedding and there's just like, when all I can see is stuff that's going to be thrown in the trash at the end of the night, like I feel so icky. Um, and so I, you know, I really try to like attract people who care about that and who are going to be very intentional about their wedding day. And part of that is like,
00:37:53
Speaker
being okay saying no if like that's not their vibe. So I think that's really hard though. like I don't know that I've ever told somebody no. I think I've priced them out on purpose. Which is a really passive aggressive Minnesota way of being like, I don't think we're a good fit. But um yeah, I think that's really hard. Because I can get along with almost anybody.
00:38:23
Speaker
Um, but then I have to think about like, if I am at your wedding, like, is it going to be a good day for me? And and for you, right? Like, you know, and I'm following people around all day on their wedding day. If they're not like, they don't like me. It's like, it's going to be weird. right I think that's kind of tough, like figuring out like, yeah, who you want to work with and then, and how to find them. And then, yeah, being okay saying no. Have you guys ever had to say no to somebody?
00:38:55
Speaker
I've definitely not been on the same page as people before. I feel like you have. Yes, but like I've told people I'm not taking on new clients before, but it's been in specific situations in which Like it was actually kind of the truth. It wasn't really, I don't want to work with them. I, I've had a couple people who I knew that they weren't, you know, maybe they inquired to go to class, right? yeah And then I knew that personality wise, they wouldn't fit the vibe.
00:39:49
Speaker
I've had people like that where then I kind of nicely steer them to either a different class with someone else or like one-on-one with me. yeah Or I'm, you know this, I'm pretty good at following up with people. I'm very much a personal innovation guy. That is definitely a strength of mine is texting people after sessions and things like that. And I have had people who I purposely do not contact again after, you know,
00:40:18
Speaker
That's an interesting thing too, actually. like Which of your clients are you okay being friends with? Because I know both of you are like friends with some of your clients in some way. have to kind of like i mean Not that like a lot of mine try to hang out with me, but anytime I get an invitation, I have to be like, okay, how like where are you okay drawing a boundary at some point? I'm so grateful for this job because I've met so many people. i otherwise would like never have come across and they're just so cool and they're so fun and awesome. And I've never, I don't think I've ever had a client that's a bad fit for me, right? But there's a difference between like, yeah, who can you work with and who can you be friends with? Um, and I have made friends with my clients, but, and even if I feel like that, even if I'm like, Oh my God, like I want to be friends with this couple or whatever. You still have to pause for a second and be like, can I do that though? Like, is that,
00:41:17
Speaker
appropriate do you wait until after like the service is over so like I don't hang out with them during their engagement or up to the wedding but like after I've delivered their product and like you know then and they invite me to a basketball game or something I'll be like yeah let's do it um but yeah I think that's like a really tricky thing to manage too well and even This is where the lonely thing comes up too, because for example, as a personal trainer, pretty much any single client that I ever hang out with outside personal training, I will not drink in front of. And I will at least not, if I do, it's like one beer, right?
00:41:59
Speaker
or like I'm very conscious of what I eat or like what I say, and in pretty much any social setting ever, I will get asked the question about something related to my job. So even when you're in those settings with like other friends and whatnot that you ever wants clients, there is like still, ah I'm sure you experienced this too, like there's still a, it's a different level kind of of, you know, yeah friendship slash boundary setting too, but I have,
00:42:27
Speaker
I'm lucky because again, back to the, like the amount of time I get to spend with people, I spend more time with less people typically. And because of that, I can usually get a good read on people, fair, you know, and be like, yeah, I know for a fact, if you invite me something, I'm not going to go do it. And, uh, but for most people, I'll still like, you know, like go to, uh, to rules game or route to eat or grab a beer with like pretty much every, yeah every client, but then.
00:42:56
Speaker
Again, the other side of that is I would say most of the clients that I choose to be friends with, they know and are mature enough to almost put up their own boundaries, like with um if that makes sense. um And so like the people that I've become more close to,
00:43:19
Speaker
even when I'm around them, they're they're they're the ones that they don't really ask about anything related to work. yeah know and like they They just understand that differently. And ah so it's almost like they kind of choose me, I guess, in a sense too. I don't know if that makes sense. Yeah. Like you find something else you have in common, talk about that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and like me with healthcare, like you saying about turning people away too, like the,
00:43:46
Speaker
legal things are a little different too. And I feel like we both learned that too, like personal training, like laws and stuff are just a lot different than. There are none. I wasn't going to say that, but Jacob doesn't have any rules. No rules. It's so unregulated. It's ridiculous. I mean, I have to abide by HIPAA. I'm under the Minnesota public Medical Board. My patients are signing informed consent. They're signing their HIPAA things.
00:44:12
Speaker
And like legally, if I were to turn somebody away and say, hey, I'm not the best fit for you, like legally, I need to refer them to somebody else. okay So usually, if I'm not helping them, or if they aren't a good fit, then I'll say, this is who I recommend that you go see. And that can either be another acupuncturist, or that could be a PT, or it could be a functional medicine person naturopath.
00:44:38
Speaker
um And then I'm like documenting on it too. So it's not even just like a about level. It's like, I could get sued if I'm not following protocol. yeah Actually, I just don't want to treat you. Like I can't, like I can't say that, but I have to go about it in a different way. So usually I'll continue to just give the best treatment that I can, but then refer and say, Hey, I think like you should try this.
00:45:09
Speaker
And then even with like personal relationships, it's just, I'm careful about who I'm texting of my patients. Yeah. Again, that information's technically all protected information. And there are definitely people that I've become friends with and like, I'm not saying I don't like texts and stuff, but it's just a little different. Like I'm typically not texting after an appointment unless I know them on a different level or if it's different things that we're talking about. And even like an email, like it needs to be like a protect, like technically like an encrypted email. So I just try to be a little bit more cautious about those things. You're more of a rule follower where Jess and I are kind of rebels. I mean, I am just under, like my license is on the line, you know, and everyone hears horror stories about what can happen. Oh yeah. That actually, that's another interesting thing too. Like,
00:46:08
Speaker
Luckily I was set up with like good mentors when I first entered the scene, but like having a solid contract and, and even like you guys have signed my contracts. It's not that I don't trust you. That's just like the standard, right? Like, and Jacob with your waivers, right? Like if I got injured during your class, like I'm not coming after you. I'd be like, wow, Jess, like you shouldn't have done that. But you still like that's to protect your business and you can't like,
00:46:37
Speaker
You can't sit there and be like, well, like if I do a branding session for Jacob and he doesn't like it, like he's not going to sue me. He's going to be like, Hey, you know, can we like make some adjustments or do a redo or whatever? And like, but that doesn't matter. Like you still have to do the waiver. You have to do the contract. You have to store his company can still go after him. Like that's the thing that people won't realize. Like, you know, if you have a really good relationship, like guess but if you get in a car accident or something, even if you don't want to go after the person. Like your car insurance will still want to like get the money back. You know, so I mean, there's just like a lot to it. Okay. The nitty gritty, but yeah. And I present that to my like contracts and stuff to my clients is like managing expectations, right? Like I'm telling you what you should expect from me. Like when I'm promising you and I'm telling you what I expect from you as my client, right? Like, cause it is a two way relationship. Um, I, you know, all like I expect my clients to be on time and prepared and like,
00:47:38
Speaker
to respect my time and to communicate with me and to tell me what's going on. like You know don't tell me anything about your wedding day. i can't yeah like You can't expect me to like give you what you want if you don't tell me what you want. you know And then at the same time, like I promise to be there on time and paying attention and like you know listening to you and what you want and like preparing you and stuff like that. so And you know like time for delivery. and things like that. So yeah, it's like, it's like weirdly an unfortunate place that we live in, but I think it ends up solving a lot of problems, but I know enough people who don't use contracts. and Yeah. I feel like communication is just, as we've all heard, is just like so important with any job, it's especially with what we do. Like this is what I do. This is what you should expect. For me, like this is how you should feel after you might out list and
00:48:39
Speaker
And I think that's another way that like, I feel like being business owners has helped like our relationship too. Cause it's like, that's the communication side of it as well. And there's just like a lot of parallels with being a business owner, relationships, fitness, all those things with like learning how to make you about a person. Yeah. I have a question for you guys. Hit us. If you want to like change something,
00:49:07
Speaker
about your business or your services, do you find that that is hard or it takes a long time to like implement those changes? Or are you like, I work for myself, I decided I'm making a change, like here we go. Let's stand here.
00:49:24
Speaker
I think we have a lot of different processes. One of the reasons I like entrepreneurship is because I want control and I've worked for enough people to know that so your companies, if you want to make a change, actually pretty much every company I've ever worked for, if I wanted to make a change, it was going to take a while. yeah so Or not at all. I don't. I'm pretty quick about me. when i When I have like a thought or a business idea, I just do it. Like I raised my run coaching prices pretty substantially last like August from 150 to 200, like, yeah and then added two more tiers that were like 300 and 600 months, something like that. And I was 150 a month and I changed all of that. And within the week I changed it all. I messaged everyone. And then I said next month, this is happening or whatever, you know, and.
00:50:12
Speaker
So I guess it depends a little bit on what it is, or maybe it's some things that I've taken a little while to do, but for the most part, it's like that if I want to do it. Like I'm rebranding next year. yeah yeah I mean, I had been thinking about it, but it when I met the person, it was like a, I don't know, a day. And I was like, okay, let's do it. Here's one.
00:50:34
Speaker
you love it yeah think Personality based a little bit. Yeah. I'm a thinker. I take a little longer, but that's me in general. I like to sit on things a lot, yeah but, and then I get stuck in my head a lot. And then I ask for a lot of opinions. It's like, I'll talk to Jacob. I'll talk to my friends. I'll talk to other people who have their own businesses, other acupuncturists, a lot of comparing, which I know is not always the best, but like I'm also raising my prices starting January 1st for the first time.
00:51:12
Speaker
And that like almost killed me as very strong, but like I'm still like very anxious about it because it's like all the decisions are on you. And I also like, I very much like having control and not needing to ask like permission, but I do like consulting other people to find out what the best option is. Cause I like, I don't like doing things wrong. I don't like disappointing people and.
00:51:40
Speaker
It's a very hard space to be in, in the entrepreneurship world because you're constantly going to be doing that. And that's something that I'm continuing to learn is like, Kayla, you are not always going to make everyone happy and that's okay. And I think it's just like when you're talking about um like attracting the right clients and stuff, I think it's, we need to be our authentic selves and do what feels right for us. Cause then those are the people that we're going to attract.
00:52:10
Speaker
yeah And even if it turns other people away, that's okay. Because who like with you like showing that you're about sustainability and being inclusive, like those are the people that you want and people are going to see that. And same with whatever decisions you're making. like Hopefully people see those things and are like, okay, like I want to be with Kaylee or I want Jacob as my trainer.
00:52:35
Speaker
and
00:52:38
Speaker
It's just cool that it is us at the end of the day that people are like looking towards and making. We're the ones that are making the decisions. Yeah. And with that being said, I love that I can just change like my website at any second and write out an email for something and and just create whatever we want at any time. And I feel like I'm very lucky to have Jacob with the balance of that of just like, yeah, let's just do it. You know, like we had the class idea for New Year's and it's like,
00:53:07
Speaker
Let's write it up right now. I'm like, let's make a game plan and get it out there. And yeah, I'm definitely the thinker. Jacob's more of the action. Yeah, I take the action and then worry about it later. I just think I'm honest with you, Jacob, but every time I'm like, all right, he's doing something else. Like, we'll be there. but Yeah, it's a lot. can I mean, it's like when we go shopping at Costco.
00:53:34
Speaker
It's a good analogy for it. Kaylee, I'll fill the cart with just random shit. And then Kaylee will be like, do you really need this? And I'll say, yeah, I think so. I'm going to need it probably. But I mean, I think it's good to have both. yeah Yeah. And there's also the whole like.
00:53:56
Speaker
Uh, if you want to go fast, go alone, but if you want to go far, go with people, I feel as low with me specifically, and I'm, I can kind of feel this right now, actually starting. I feel like I'm going to hit walls because I'm not going to have the, you know,
00:54:14
Speaker
more people, but like the ability to slow down myself. Like I'm going to need help with that. I think in my next step of entrepreneurship for sure to like make, I don't want to say smarter because it's not like the decisions I've made haven't been smart, but I feel as though that's kind of the next step for me, but what about you? Um, I, it takes me a long time to implement, but that's because like the, lead up to a wedding is so long and I never want it. Like, for example, this year,
00:54:44
Speaker
I started like a collaboration with a painter in the spring. But I had all these clients like booked through the fall this year. And I was like, well, like I want to start this. So then you know do I also give that painting to my current clients and to the new ones? you know like Do I treat everybody the same? Or do I say like this wasn't part of the deal when you booked so like you don't get it or offer it as an add-on or whatever?
00:55:12
Speaker
and So yeah, like when I make changes, or will come I've changed my editing style exactly one time. And um it was like, I've always been like a natural editing style, but um there are many like varieties of that I would say. And I like, you know, started using one that was like a little bit more bold and like, um I don't know, I just thought it was like a little nicer. And I had one client who booked me with my old editing style and I changed in between that and I sent their sneak peeks. And this is the one time I've had feedback on editing. And she was like, um, like, we really like these, but also, you know, can you, it's not like, I think, you know, she said something like it wasn't as bright or sunny as she remembered the day being. And at first I was like, oh, stabbing the heart. Like I really like these.
00:56:10
Speaker
But then I had to think, and I was like, this is not what she expected when she booked me. And also, like at the end of the day, these photos are not for me. They're for the couple. And if what they've asked is for my old editing style, because that's what they liked, then like so be it. That's what they get. um and so And I think that actually like me not being like an artist first serves me well in that way. I think some people get like really offended when when they're like, but my art. And I respect that, but it's just, I don't know, I'm like, oh, well, these are your wedding photos. Like, I don't know, but yeah. So I think for things like changing an editing style or a process or an offering or something like that can take me a while to implement just because like, I mean, right now I have couples who've booked me for 2026 already. And so I'm like, anything that I change, I have to think about them too.
00:57:08
Speaker
And so everything is just like a one to two year process to implement. But I mean, some things, you know, like if I want to automate my emails or I want to like check in more with people or, you know, that stuff's like nice and easy to do. But yeah, it kind of depends on what it is. But I don't want to be so jarring, you know, just because I'm with people for so long. Right. I don't want them to think I'm unstable.
00:57:40
Speaker
Cause yeah, you're right. Like we have ideas all the time. We're like, Ooh, what if I do that? ah Like, yeah. Yeah. And they don't, I mean, they don't always work either. Like I've made choices that I go, I regret that, but oh well. And then, you know, learning opportunities and and whatnot to from it. So I think it just, yeah, it depends a lot on your business, who you are and what works for you.
00:58:07
Speaker
I know Kaylee, like part of the reason I had to shoot with you is because you move studios and then you don't want to like dupe your clients into thinking you have like a neutral, just like the look of the studio is different, but you don't want to like freak anybody out. So that was like a change that you made that now you have to like communicate to people. So yeah, even just little things like that, I think are interesting. Or like, yeah, Jacob, you move gems.
00:58:37
Speaker
like We go here now. Right. Luckily, I had done my photos with you in there. but that Yeah, Having people know what to expect is key, especially if they're finding you from Google. Yeah. Totally.
00:58:57
Speaker
Jess, we have one final question for you. I think I know what it is. Who's your favorite?
00:59:06
Speaker
They already told me before. Yeah. We've been texting. It depends. She said it depends. It depends. At the end of every episode, we end with a, once year get we get to do this moment, and this can be anything from the last, how old are you? 30. Almost 35. From the last 35 years of your life.
00:59:30
Speaker
or from this week can be anything, but just what's your moment of like, wow, like I get to do this? um Well, as you guys know, we lost our dear cat Teddy earlier this year, which is really sad. um But we found the perfect cat and adopted him only two weeks ago yesterday. a And it's just been like, we get to like play with him.
01:00:00
Speaker
It's so cute. I love it. Was that him walking behind you at at one point here? I'm sure, yeah. So yeah, sometimes like he comes and bothers me, you know, like he's like, and, um, but I'm like, well, I get to play with a cat now. Like it's so nice. he's So that's fine. I love it. I love it. Happiness.
01:00:28
Speaker
Thanks for being with us, Jess. Yeah, thanks for inviting me here. You're definitely someone that I feel like we can talk to for a long, long period of time. Yeah, we could have made this like a five hour episode. So we'll have to have you on the web at some point, I'm sure. Part 10. Since we're all lonely entrepreneurs, we can just work together sometimes. Yes. I don't do a lot of work, not in a gym. It's one thing with mine that My desk has been cluttered for like three years because I never use it. That's one of my goals for this year. Use my desk more. Yeah. I don't know. I don't even have a chair at my desk. You use the couch. Yeah. But we can make a coworking space for all of us. We can call it the league to do the coworking space unless Jess wants a different name. Thank you, Jess. It was a pleasure having you on. You're doing amazing work. And how can people find you?
01:01:20
Speaker
Ooh, good question. um My website is JessicaKnighton.com. Knighton is K-N-I-G-H-T-O-N. um There's a little Fitzgerald.
01:01:32
Speaker
cut oh And then on Instagram at Jess.Knighton. Also on Facebook, JessicaKnightonPhotography. And you know, probably running or cross-fitting around the Twin Cities.
01:01:48
Speaker
And we'll link all of those things to so people can find you for their next photography needs, because you're amazing. Thanks, guys. You're amazing. Also shout out to Jacob's classes. You should go to them. Ultimate plug. And come to our New Year's class. Yeah, you can find me at Jacob's classes. Yeah, come meet Jeff at our class. It'll be fun.