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04 | Livingston, Baby w/Taylor Thomas (Endurance Minded Repost)
36 Plays4 months ago
Taylor Thomas is the host of the Endurance Minded podcast, owner of Thomas Endurance Coaching, and co-founder of Impact Initiative. He is passionate about helping entrepreneurs develop the tools, acquire the skills, and build the relationships to accomplish their goals.
Kailee and Jacob had a wonderful time staying with Taylor and his family in Livingston, MT a few weeks ago. They hit a workout, ate tons of good food, caught up on all things business, and recorded a podcast for the Endurance Minded podcast.
This episode is a rerun of and was originally published here
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Email us questions/comments at weget2dothis@gmail.com
Check out the video portion of our show at https://www.youtube.com/@weget2dothis
For business information hit up the links below:
Dr. Kailee Acupuncture Website
Oak Endurance Website
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Transcript
00:00:17
Speaker
We're live. Do you want some shit? That's right. flag salary That's how we pick it up. Right here. and Yeah, you guys are you guys are passing through Livingston. Where am I living here? And you guys have been on three weeks, four weeks, almost a month. We left three weeks ago, tomorrow. Today, Saturday. No, it's Friday. You are nervous.
Entrepreneurial Flexibility vs. Overwork
00:00:42
Speaker
So I think, uh, I think it's interesting, I think a good place to start would be you guys are both entrepreneurs. I think a lot of times, um, I've certainly been in this place where you feel like you don't have access to that kind of flexibility, even though like technically on paper, right? Like that's what everybody says. So like, I'm gonna start my own business. So I have free time or I can do my own schedule. And then you end up just working more than everybody who's ever had just like a regular, regular job.
00:01:12
Speaker
Um, and you guys certainly, I'm sure had done that before, like to start your business, but you also like to travel around the country or out in the West, even to the West coast, not even Montana. What, what's that been like? Like, how do you, how do you balance to, how did you relinquish some of that? Like, I imagine some of that like pressure to, to be like, oh, if I don't, not here, like I'm gonna, I'm going to go backwards. Like my business isn't going to grow. So what's up been like for you guys.
00:01:42
Speaker
I feel like I was definitely more nervous than Jacob was. um I have, so being an actor comes here to say I'm much more of like the in-person in order to like get paid, whereas you kind of have a little more flexibility with the online side of things. But when we actually started dating, one of our stipulations was that Jacob wanted to take a month's medical every year.
00:02:08
Speaker
It's like the first day of town though. The first things we covered. Not in the grocery store. One month's about long. So I kind of like knew that going into this. And I feel like can you helped like, definitely get me to
00:02:26
Speaker
to like take the time to leave and to be like, it's going to be okay. Your patients are not going to leave you after, you know, three to four weeks. And like, I think like stepping away gives you so much more perspective than like just being in the grind 24 seven. And I feel like as entrepreneurs and like, I think all three of us, like it is easy to just do that every single day, but like,
Impact of Travel on Business and Relationships
00:02:53
Speaker
I think one of my biggest takeaways is again, just like how important travel is and it's grown our relationship. We're coming back with like so many more business ideas, like together, solo and stuff that we wouldn't have gotten, like having just stayed in Minnesota and just stayed in our routine. So like being an entrepreneur is like coming up with ideas and constantly like pivoting and trying things and like what better way to do that than travel. Yeah.
00:03:23
Speaker
I think the pattern interrupt, I know it's something I've talked about a lot, but I think people, you don't recognize, at least I always am reminded how valuable it is when I force myself to do it. It's easy to say, you got to get out of your space and you got to break your routine and get out of your finding and you wake up tomorrow and you're like doing the same shit over again. And then when you don't do that and you do something else, to your point, it's like you get so many good ideas. like It's just amazing like how much how productive that ah time is. You're um you're like more online, like how is that? And the extent that you've been like like you took some calls earlier, you've been able to like massage that a little bit, but like what's that pattern interrupt for you? Yeah, well, I didn't do any of my in-person
00:04:10
Speaker
Actually, that's not true. I did a few training sessions. and I think about it, but for the most part, I didn't do any of my like in-person, obviously say good classes or strength training. And this sabbatical, I was a little bit more intentional, even with like my run coaching clients where there is a few where they were new clients and I felt like it was important to like touch base with them. Um, but I had a few where I was like, let's not talk for the month. And like last year when I wouldn't have had the confidence to do that.
00:04:40
Speaker
I would have been worried about like, what if they been out there. And that' that's been something that's changed a lot even because part of the reason that I like to do all of these sabbaticals is I call them is because one, I do think it helps with burnout, but two, I think it helps more importantly, like Kaylee was saying, kind of getting out of the day-to-day grind. Because otherwise, like three months go by and you're like, oh shit, I haven't even this business objective or this, right? So even though we didn't even like have much time to sit down and necessarily like write down like goals, visions, missions, whatever, being together and having a lot of time to even if it was like at a brewery.
00:05:22
Speaker
like drinking beer and playing games and just all of a sudden like all goes off that you just you just have more brain time to think about stuff and i think that that's like the biggest reason we like to go places is because it kind of like it forces us to take a step back and not think about the environment that we're in within the environment but be able to kind of analyze what's going on outside of it and Just think bigger, honestly, too. like Like when we came through here that first week, you know, we have a conversation with you who is not in Minnesota, right? So you don't you're very much not within that circle that we're seeing things through.
00:05:57
Speaker
So your viewpoint on like any issues or any ideas is just so much different than either of us or anyone in Minnesota.
Work-Life Balance Challenges and Strategies
00:06:05
Speaker
Right. Um, and then talking to like a couple of kids friends about different things and you just get, there's just so much different viewpoints from other people that you meet. There's viewpoints from yourself that you get in change. And I think, yeah, the deep work is the biggest thing. Um, but I yeah was able to work a little bit online and it was,
00:06:25
Speaker
It was kind of more of a cashflow thing, to be honest. It was like, it was like, this will be nice that we have the flexibility and it still worked a little bit so that I, you know, still could be making some money while we were traveling because something that's not sexy about. Yeah. Oh, we used to took off for three weeks. It was like.
00:06:42
Speaker
Oh, shit. We just took off three weeks. That's no income. We don't get PTO. We don't have sick time. Yeah. And not only that, but we're spending more money in those three weeks. Yeah. I'm curious, you guys, thoughts. I continue. I've gotten better, but I have struggled a lot with taking time away. I didn't.
00:07:10
Speaker
i didnt I didn't take a day off for like a decade. And I'd like mean that, and I'm not trying to sound like, that's not me bragging. Like I just didn't know how to, every day I worked. I worked every vacation. I worked, I just plowed through. I was like, okay, that doesn't work. and There's always something to do. There's always something to do. And yeah and it felt like I was like going to get behind it. Yeah. I just, I just didn't have, so like good on you guys. I just didn't have the tools or the perspective to like understand how to navigate that early on.
00:07:41
Speaker
And then I was like, okay, you know, I'm gonna back off of that. And then I think I like i went ah maybe for me, like I went a little too hard in the other direction where I just did these like big chunks of time totally like cut off. And that actually didn't feel that productive because when I came back, I felt really disconnected from my work, which I really enjoy. So now I i find like I've kind of and the last maybe be like five years or something come to this more just like fluid idea about work in general and just like how it integrates into my life and that like if I need to take a day fully away like fine but if I like want to work or if I'm on like vacation but I'm in another place and like that doesn't define how I think about work. I think that's been as a place is less of like an indicator of like how I engage in work and more about
00:08:40
Speaker
how I'm feeling about work and like making sure it's a value add and i'm not doing it from a place of like forcing it. oh And that's really helped me. like because it I do want to be engaged. And so I found it is like hard stops of just like three weeks totally away. Like actually made me feel more anxious just from the place of like, I felt like I had some good ideas, but then I was like trying to shut that down because I was like, don't think about work. Don't, this is your time away. I was like, well, that doesn't feel good. Like back to the pattern interrupting like it does. So now there's, I try to just like let it flow. And I'm like, if I wake up and I'm on quote unquote vacation in,
00:09:20
Speaker
Like I was just in Greece, like woke up, like fired up and I just worked like half a day. Cause I wanted to, you know, and like technically I was on vacation and off, but you know, they but, and so I had several days like that where I just like.
00:09:33
Speaker
You know, or like at night from to Ben, just like writing stuff down and like planning and doing. So I don't know. It feels like you guys are, you guys are like already there. to me time to get there um i'm I'm talking to them like, uh, you know, I don't know, 15 plus year timeline. You guys are way ahead of the curve or my curve. But we have people to learn from like you and like this morning we were saying like life is for living.
00:09:59
Speaker
I feel like that's why we get along so well too, because we're very much like, let's live in the moment. like We have the ability to take the time right now. like We can just go for a run or we can go you know do whatever it is that we want to do. It's like, why should we have to wait? I feel like that's like also the benefit of being an entrepreneur.
Flexibility and Rest in Entrepreneurship
00:10:19
Speaker
like yes, you can grind 24 to seven, but like we do have more of the ability to like do things now. And we get to change things like every day. We can make our own decisions and like completely change our business like just because we want to. And I think the other like reason why I was more okay with like traveling and stuff is like I'm very big on like
00:10:45
Speaker
walking to talk and like with my patients, like I'm very big on like, you need to take time to rest, you need to break. And like I'm talking about last night too is like, it's okay to like not exercise every single day. Because like the people we work with are very active and constantly doing things. And it's like, I want my patients to see like, it's okay to like vacation, it's okay to like, do this stuff. And like, I think all of us can like speak about to like, our like clients, patients like hearing about these things too. Like it's what draws them to us. Totally. Yeah, I think you have to be like your own, I mean, you definitely have to practice what you preach, I think, or try, but then like be your own like test case too, you know? Like I try to try to really think about um like my process and what works and it's not gonna work for everybody, but like when inevitably people are like, hey, like I, you know,
00:11:40
Speaker
I need some guidance. you're like What's worked for you? like I want to be able to just at least like definitively say for me is like, don't try this. like this you know like This is what's worked for me. um i think like and it's I think it's like a cultural thing too. We now, um because like working all the time is such like a badge of honor that people, right? That now people are embarrassed to say the same time.
00:12:05
Speaker
And then they're like, I mean, I was just talking, this happens all the time. ah I get to talk to people and I'm like. You know, they were on like a trip. They went on vacation. They won't call it that. Right. They're like, oh, I'm like, you know, I'm working remote or I'm like, I'm in a different place. Like, you're on vacation. That's fine. You can do that. And they're like, oh, I'm with my family off-site. I'm like, are we just going to call it all different things except for like, it's okay. And they're like, how's your vacation? And then they just like skirt around and they're like, oh, you know, like, glad to be back. I'm like, are you?
00:12:38
Speaker
It doesn't feel like you're glad to be back. It didn't really feel like you were glad to be there. It's like we were talking last night. and you know just like there is a Being present is is like a muscle to be worked right and to like recognize that um but like every every every opportunity, like every experience like has an important role and that they don't all have to be um like they don't yeah i don't know They don't have to be the same. or They don't have to be like weighted equally. then im to like The way that you define like the role of those experiences can and should be different. meaning like you know What is like success for a vacation is different than what is success on a super productive work day. right like Defining that success differently.
00:13:26
Speaker
um I think is something that people like shortchange themselves, right? You're like, ah, it wasn't, you know, because I didn't make progress. That means I, I went backward and like, no, I'm like, things still can move forward just in different ways. There's like expectation alignment. Um, right. And on the one hand, I'm like, I want to create a life that I don't like want vacation from, but on the other hand, it's like, why is that bad?
00:13:53
Speaker
Yeah, on vacation. Right. You know, yeah, it's, yeah, it's interesting. I know I've thought about, ah yeah, again, this is something I am always like jockeying with, because I think I do think it's like, it's person specific to like, I do know, like rest looks different for different people. Right. And like some people rest is sitting on the couch and like, watching Netflix for a day.
00:14:23
Speaker
Um, is that here? Yeah. And like some people, um, like me, that's not it. Like that makes me feel worse. Now I'm like, I might like yeah this conversation. Yeah.
00:14:36
Speaker
So I think, yeah, like being aware of that and knowing that like, so like, to like the time of way I'm tired interrupts, like my, some level of engagement for me still feels very restful. Then like nothing at all like that can create like more anxiety. It's not from a place of like.
00:14:55
Speaker
lack or like shame but it's just truly like the way my brain works like it doesn't. I can't like powering down this doesn't feel like a good thing for me listen like second even then honestly like ah like a walk still feels better than like a couch day.
00:15:11
Speaker
You guys have talked about that. feels like like Like I'm the, on this trip, we've discovered it. Like I am the, I go away and it's, I want to hit it hard and run like a lot and work out a lot. And then I want to hit it super easy. It's like I'm up here and then I'm down here. I'm running 10 miles in the morning, lifting at lunch. And then at nighttime, I'm eating Ben and Jerry's and watching.
00:15:37
Speaker
better You're very much of the extreme with everything in life. right It's like the rabbit versus salamander. It's like the her bunny versus salamander, whatever it is. But I'm i'm the spectrum. I'm very extreme. morally And that's more than just what we're talking right now. It's like when I'm running, I'm fucking crying. I'm interrupting. And when I'm lifting, like I'm into lifting. like there's It's very hard for me too.
00:16:08
Speaker
not be all. And if I'm not running, I'm not running. come yeah right hu oh And same with work. so you know When I'm working, I'm working. and um' When I'm not working, I'm chill.
00:16:22
Speaker
and we're very different we yeah learn And we're very different than I think like recognizing that is really important like for for everyone. right I think that there's like a level of introspection that we don't give ourselves the opportunity to sort that out. right Because we that also gets subscribed like on us and for us. right we're just like Like I guess, I guess like relaxing looks like this. so i have And I guess working looks like this and not like what if pick a pickup thing, right? Like like recovery, even like you look at youre like the lens of, you know, being an athlete, like what is recovery, right? Like is it, is it like laying a bed, taking a nap or is it something else, right? Like active, you know, I think everybody, and we put, put a lot of pressure
00:17:06
Speaker
on ourselves to make that look a certain way based on like what we imagine it's supposed to look like. So just knowing that about yourself. Like Kaylee used to, Mike Kaylee used to, like we were just like, can you just sit still? um Like we would like, you know, do like a snowy winter day and it'd be freezing cold outside. You know, we'd be busy all week and travel and I'd come back maybe like a Saturday or Sunday and she would just a nice day to relax. And I'd make it like 30 minutes on this couch. And I'd be like, I gotta, I'm gonna go like organize the garage. Like I can't, it just doesn't feel good for me and my brain. Or I'd work or something, right? Like I like i do ah but right on the whiteboard, like I play it like, and but that felt like that was my version of rest, right? It's not full gas. I'm not like taking meetings. I'm not like, it's ah it's a some a different like divergent,
00:18:01
Speaker
way but like engagement just still feels like rest and it's like another task a lot of times I am pretty specific about like Like typically like I don't work on Sundays. And that was like having to do with me being religious. Like that's just Sunday. I typically do work on Saturdays cause I can't get it all done Monday through Friday. And so typically I wake up Saturday with like a lot on my mind. So I just work on Saturdays, at least like part of the day. And Sunday I'm like, I'm just going to like be engaged with something else. Right. it' So like.
00:18:34
Speaker
you know, I need to like do a house project or I need to like build whatever, like, you know, still engaged, but somewhere else. And I think just like recognize that. And when I do that, Kaylee is like, she's in here like watching TV, like watching the Great British baking show. And she's pumped, right? Like she's like, she's like the best day. And I'm just like, I'm like running errands and do a thing. Like we both like come back and I'm like,
00:18:59
Speaker
What a great day. She was like, yeah, me too. She's like, I walked one step today. And I'm like, I got it like 15 miles, like up and down around the yard. You know, I got my to-do list that I mapped out and like, I feel great. Yeah, I know. It's interesting.
00:19:13
Speaker
um there like There's nothing wrong with that. My early kind of few years started diving into like podcasts and ah person development and all this stuff. I was like trying to like match other people and figure out what is the ideal way to work, to train, to whatever.
Personalized Productivity and Goal Setting
00:19:31
Speaker
and I think it really just boils down to what's the ideal way for you. right and Then like we can learn that for our clients. Totally. like right it's like And we'll help them learn it slash whatever. Because, just because Kaylee likes to do something and recover, one way doesn't mean that I have to do that. And that's been every like relationship epiphany too for us. We've talked a lot about as well, because it's like, I'm not as productive if I'm not like,
00:19:55
Speaker
typically full gas and then full not, right? And then like, for me, my Sunday is like, like, funny enough, when we first started dating, that was a big friction point for us, where we had a lot of little arguments about it, because on my Sundays, before pre-k, it was laying the couch.
00:20:13
Speaker
right And then Kaylee, her way to kind of unwind is she wants to go spend time with family, friends, whatever on Sunday that she doesn't need to see during the week. Cleaning. Cleaning, different things. And I'm like, I'll do that during the week. Sunday is my rest time. but's you know Again, it's like, I want to get up, I want to do a long run, and I want to just to have Jacob time.
00:20:37
Speaker
yeah And so then we went through periods to where it was like, we try to match each other, you know, and that doesn't work. So that's like resentment and different stuff. Right. And I think it just boils down to figuring out what works best for you. and Yeah. Yeah. I want to double down on that. I think like for anyone listening, I mean, I think this is like one of the biggest things I'd be interested to like hear you guys take on this as people like in this space, you are supporting people like.
00:21:04
Speaker
through the lens of like, you know, sport and athleticism or, you know, business and entrepreneurship. Like figure out what it works, right? There's so many There's so many like talking heads on the internet. And I find I spend a lot of time trying to just help people understand how to understand what works for them. Because they're like, Oh, such and such said do this such as I should do like to your point, like spend a lot of time like taking in
00:21:36
Speaker
the clips from podcasts that you read or a little thing and like that's good like consume information like I am a lifelong learner but but just use it to inform like your approach right like Andrew Huberman told me to do, you know, and they killed themselves to go like, get up at three in the morning to put their toes in the grass and stare at the sun. Like Peter Attia told me to do that, you know, eat them. but Okay, like, let's just take snippets and let's understand what works and and let's understand the science. And then what works for you, right? And if like, we talked about this last night, like, if it's not a value add, it's not valuable, right? Like, just shut it down. You and I, ah I say like,
00:22:17
Speaker
I think about everything on like a spectrum of life. So if you can't do it from now until you die, then don't like don't do it. right Meaning like if you can't do it consistently and it doesn't add value, like don't do it. Don't be boom and bust. Don't do it for six months because then like it doesn't add up to anything. right And that's always like,
00:22:42
Speaker
Consistency over intensity, right? Like I would rather just someone do it consistently forever than to do it like as hard as they can fucking go for three months and then realize that doesn't actually do anything for them. They can't sustain it. And so.
00:22:57
Speaker
Yeah, just like I want people to know what works for you, right? There's no one best day. There's no one best training program. There's no one, it's aggregate versus pieces and parts of all of these things. And then figure out what works. Listen to your body. Listen to your inner voice. Listen to your, you know, whatever that is. Do you guys, what should do people like in your space Do they bring, a I mean, there's, there's so much shit out there. I think about every topic. I'm sure if you're looking for it, but like, do you combat that or like, yeah, what's your experience with that? You should say your space too. Say what? You should say your space that you work with. Oh yes. I am an acupuncturist and work with endurance athletes specifically. And like I'm a hundred percent about like sustainable and lifelong things. Like that's always.
00:23:51
Speaker
Like the thing that I try to like talk about and mail the head with my patients and like diet, for example, like huge into nutrition. And I'm always like, like focusing on like whole foods and like things that like, you know, we'll be around for forever. but Instead of like hitting that diet where it's like, you know, only red meat or only it fruits or only something. And it's like, maybe there's a period where you can You know, do a reset or something of that, but like always incorporating like all of the things I'm just big on more of like. Organical foods, for example.
00:24:31
Speaker
And for working out, for example, like, again, I believe there's seasons, like when I was training for my 200, like I was going at it harder. And I knew that wasn't something I'd be able to do for my entire life. But like, typically my whole standpoint is, can I like to do this activity for forever?
00:24:51
Speaker
and not getting burned out on it and it's like this morning I didn't feel like running but I wanted to walk because I do believe like movement is very important and today my walk was good and then we're gonna lift later and that's fine but instead of being like I need to run every single day it's like yeah are you gonna do that every single day for best of your life?
00:25:12
Speaker
Maybe, but probably not. And being able to adapt to that. And I think that's the huge thing is like being able to be flexible with what you're doing and to think of more of that long-term goal. And yeah, I'd say I'm more of like the balance person. like seen that device of too I've heard it, I've heard it described, I don't remember who said this, or I heard it, but ah flexible rigidity, right which is this like, this like strong adherence to an overarching goal, but being flexible and route to that thing, right? And knowing that like, there's ups and flows and that there's like, like, yeah, like there's seasons. And also, like, yeah it's a great example, like,
00:25:54
Speaker
Absolutely. like There are seasons of intensity. like If you want to do something hard, like you got to hit it hard. But I think also, and you like you said this, like being able to see past that thing and know that but that's a benchmark, but it's also not going to derail you from your in-game, which is longevity and sustainability. I think specifically with like endurance sports, a lot of people, and this is like one of my like biggest you know i guess hopes and goals with like the influence that I can have in this space is like to allow people to use an event or a specific goal as a benchmark and not an end point. Because a lot of people are like, you know, I'm gonna do America. And they just crushed themselves unless the last time they run because they're so over it by the time they write. And and to to me, that that really diminishes
00:26:44
Speaker
the the goal of the marathon, which is to not about fitness at all, right? And not about finishing the marathon, but about learning the process and learning your body and learning. And then to leverage that to be more effective on the other side of that, right? To be a better runner, a more sustainable runner, to enjoy running more. And you can insert any of that. Like, I'm sure you've all seen it like happen on every, like, nope, never touching my running shoes, bike, insert like a career, right? you're Like I'm over it.
Foundations of Sustainable Fitness and Wellness
00:27:12
Speaker
um And so there's this need for like, just recognizing that that thing and then to forecast out like, is, is it sustainable? Like on the other side of that, am I still going to give a shit about it? Um, cause that's really the goal, right? Like you got consistent movement practice.
00:27:32
Speaker
Just consistently moved in ways that are in alignment with your goals all the time, right? And some days that's a walk, and there's a run, and sometimes it's a lot of volume, and sometimes it's a lot of intensity, and then like up and down, and and then we die. It's over, right? Like we do that forever. um Hopefully, like that's that's my goal. What's finding out? Sorry, just like those overarching themes, like always gonna have movement in my life. Nutrition is always gonna be there.
00:28:01
Speaker
Like mindset, mindfulness, like, and how we like integrate that is going to change. But like having, like, I know those are always going to be like foundational things in my life. So um yes, figuring out how can we do this for forever? yeah so all eyes on ah Yeah. I mean, I agree with a lot of what you're saying. and i You can push back.
00:28:28
Speaker
No, I mean, it it kind of stems back to like what we were just talking about, about like the way I rest and the way I work versus YouTube. And I, it's something that I've been, I bow a lot in my head. I'm like, what did, you know, again, like what's the right way? What's the right way for me, right? And so forth. Cause like on the one hand, I'm like, I'm not that person nor am I that coach who goes all in on a marathon and then doesn't run for a year.
00:28:53
Speaker
I mean, I did that like in college, my very first marathon, but for the most part, like I'm ready to get after it again, right? So on the one hand, I hear you on that, but then like when it comes to like nutrition, for example, I, for me, if like ice cream, right?
00:29:09
Speaker
It's very hard for me to balance ice cream into my diet. If I'm balancing ice cream into my diet, that turns into like legit a jug of ice cream every night. right There is no balance. It's like zero or nothing.
00:29:23
Speaker
right and Do I coach that way? Do I say like, oh, no ice cream for you ever, right? No, I wouldn't ever do that. It's again, it's like figuring out what works for you. That was on the call. I was on the call with one of my clients this morning and he is a little similar to me in the sense where it's like, he wants to just hit it hard for three months and like lock in. Right. And then reassess chill and then, you know, maybe move forward from there. And it's not that like, I don't look at it as a longevity thing because I do. Right.
00:29:54
Speaker
It's, I think I just look at slightly different, right? um And I think that, that also partly goes into like addiction mindset too, a little bit. And I don't know, that's a whole, that's a whole topic. Oh, we get into exercise and addiction. We get into, right. Because it's like, but I can, I get addicted to like, one addiction is trauma, right? So um I'm all on board with that. You know, we get addicted to things to like get over trauma or like avoid trauma, right? And you can be addicted to exercise, just like food, whatever, right?
00:30:27
Speaker
And like for me, it's very easy for me to get addicted to anything. That could be alcohol, weed. I'm sure hard drugs. I've never done any hard drugs. But like I'm sure you anything. right I just use, because I'm very aware of it, I use my addictive personality to deal with things. And I channel it into exercise, typically. And sometimes that will go into food, too. But a lot of times with food, it ends up being addictive like binge eating.
00:30:54
Speaker
and let's right or you know Again, we talk about all or nothing. I've done like the binge eating side of things and I've done the I'm not eating candy side of things too. right Or like this the periods where it's like, I'm not going to eat ice cream for months. Then I won't eat ice cream for months. I don't just cut it completely out. right and I think a lot of us just like me figuring things out still as well because like on this trip like with alcohol, I think the most I've had in one night is maybe three drinks.
00:31:27
Speaker
And that's new for me. That has actually been like a huge win in my opinion of being able to like kind of take a step back and look around. and I don't have to to start taking shots of more than 10 margaritas. So I think there might also be like a growth opportunity there that I am continuing working towards too.
00:31:49
Speaker
So yeah, I don't know. Do you believe that it's like very like dependent on the person then? Or do you feel like you can grow into more balance? I think it's dependent on the person because like you take like the alcoholic, for example, that that's never drinking alcohol again. And like that's okay because we look at alcohol as a negative.
00:32:14
Speaker
Right. But if you channel that into like exercise or food, like food, right. If I was like, I'm never eating ice cream, and then I have a problem. Right. Or like, I'm trying to think of like a good way to like analyze what the exercise set of things, but you get what I'm kind of saying. like I mean, it comes back. yeah I think it.
00:32:36
Speaker
We're circling around a little bit. I wonder if it's related to what we were talking about last night. or you know It's like the guilt associated with, right like for me, I definitely have struggled with exercise addiction. I absolutely know for like a really large chunk of my life that that was a substitute for That was a coping mechanism for lots of stuff that I was running away from. And I'm very much subscribed to like, all you have to be is faster than your demons, right? And it was just like the hardest. And and that that's, I mean, that's not a good place. And I'm on the other side of that. And that's not how I see exercise in my life now. But that guilt that comes with, I do think that there's an opportunity to
00:33:26
Speaker
um I guess I'm wondering if like that's linked, right? Like if you feel, if you have a feeling about like whether or not you exercise, right? If you can feel guilty, if you feel shame, even if you like miss a workout, if it's stressful, if it's like anxiety inducing to do the exercise, to right? Like all these feelings that a lot of people deal, and I've been in this camp.
00:33:51
Speaker
Like, is that, like, what role does that play in exercise addiction? Right. Like, I feel like it's, I'm like remembering like the feelings that I had. I'm like, Oh yeah, that was definitely the same thing. Right. Like when I would like, and then like that, when you, if you missed it, you would like make up for the missed workout by like flogging yourself. Right. Like workout to cute kind of thing.
00:34:16
Speaker
Not kind of thing. I did that where I'd be like, Oh, like I missed yesterday. I got to double down, which of course, like anybody, that's not how your body works. We know that. Like, and we don't coach that. We don't coach that. I'm not going to risk the workout. No, never. Oh, no. I'll mentally be like,
00:34:34
Speaker
Yeah. I didn't run today. I got, I got a double tomorrow. No, that's a self opposed. I know. I've never told anybody, even when I felt that way myself, although my own training, like I never passed that along. Um, cause it's done. It's not a good idea. Right? Like it doesn't make sense, but you fair. So I don't know. Is that like, I don't know. Is that part of it? And I feel like that it's like part and parcel to like.
00:34:58
Speaker
If you feel that way, I guess what I'm aiming for is like that there's an opportunity to maybe check your relationship with exercise. If you feel like shamed or guilt or anxiety, or like if there's this constant like scrambling to get your workouts in and uh, you know, and I know it's hard, like yeah everybody's got a schedule and you kind of got to hustle to get your workouts in. Like I'm also not advocating just like.
00:35:24
Speaker
throw your hands up and be like, Oh, I have to work a little harder to like, get my workout in the day. Like, I guess I won't do it. But I think anybody, like, anybody that's like, been in that place, like, you know what that feels like. it's So it's like, ah it's a different thing. But what if I, what if I push back on YouTube a little bit with that, because like, business, you can get addicted to as well, right? home Both of you work a lot. Right. And Why are you looking at it? Because I mean, you like i were he he just say, right, it takes all the days off. And then even on Sunday, it's like, oh, I have to go do something. Right. So it is, you know, I'm not even exactly sure I'm going with this. I'm just pushing, pushing your buttons a little bit because it's like I did a business too. Right. If I'm not exercising, then it gets channeled into business. And then it goes into that kind of like, okay.
00:36:19
Speaker
we're just gonna find addiction somewhere else, right? And I and think a lot of that just boils down to like for myself as like validation stuff, yeah right? It's like, I need to feel validated and I need to feel it all the time, which...
00:36:32
Speaker
need, maybe I just want that, right? And then it's like, you know, Rich, which role does, uh, uh, he has a podcast with someone, I forgot their name on addiction and like everything sends back to childhood, essentially in every addiction that you develop is because of like childhood. And for some reason it's shaped you to think a certain way about yourself. Right. So.
00:36:55
Speaker
Like, you know, do you two feel that like guilt of when you're not working? For example, like do you feel what you're describing for exercise when you're not working? I'm glad you brought that up. I think, I mean, I have, I think that's like, I'm advocating. Um, I think that's where you have to check yourself. Like, is it coming from a place of value? Am I working because I.
00:37:18
Speaker
am in a good space and i'm I'm feeling productive and I want to spend my time there or am I working because I'm guilty that I'm not working. right Or like if i if I made another decision, would I feel into the same thing with exercise? like Am I exercising because I want to and is that in value? And yeah, maybe I'm squeezing it in because I had a busy day. like Is that coming from a good place or am I exercising because if I don't, I'm gonna feel bad about myself. I'm gonna feel like I should have made that decision or I should have. And I think that's a really important like caveat. like Just to recognize and like, you know,
00:37:55
Speaker
that that That feeling, I think there's a little bit of that, I don't know. Maybe there's part of that that's positive in the sense of like, you know, you need a little bit of push sometimes, like maybe that like, because otherwise it wouldn't work. should i for You know, like, I mean, I love the work, but also like,
00:38:15
Speaker
sit, you know, hang out with my dog all day. like um So there's a bit of that, like, push where you're like, I need, ah I need some of that, I don't want to call it guilt, because I don't think that's a productive emotion in this particular setting. Why could you go hang out with your dog all day? Could you like, could you actually, if you had a week, like, could you, could you actually do that for a whole week? yeah that's very I would be, that would be a big challenge for me. I don't know. I'm going to say probably not. I mean, right I don't know, but my gut is to say no. Right. Um, yeah, no, I mean, I get it. And you not be busy. Like it boils down to like, even, even now, right? Like total.
00:38:54
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, that's a, that's a, that's a like a systemic society. We are certainly addicted to being busy. Right. Right. I'm in that camp. I find, I really try to like set myself boundaries to fight that. Like for me, that's like living in Montana. Like I just go out of service. I just put physical boundaries where I'm like, well,
00:39:17
Speaker
It doesn't matter how I feel, like I have to be present in another way because none of, nothing works. Right. Um, so like after you guys leave, like Kay and I are going to drive north and just go camp for the night. Cause I haven't not worked in, I'm not sure how long. Um, so I'm like physical boundaries, like let's, you know, and again, like I can, I can recognize that. I'm not saying that, you know.
00:39:42
Speaker
the days en route to this were, you know, that I'm sure there was plenty of days that came from like a negative place. But yeah, I think, yeah, I think it's just important to like, recognize we're and we're talking about like, just like, there's a bit of self recognition that I think it's an opportunity to just check where that comes from and like, try to make it as productive as possible. We all have demons and things that we fight and addictive, you know, having that camp.
00:40:08
Speaker
in different ways. But it has been helpful for me to just, if I feel just to be like, ah interesting, like, I'm feeling a fair amount of anxiety about getting this workout in today, because of x, y, and z scenario. And I set some like secret goals for myself about, you know, I'm going to like PR my deadlift or I want to run fast today or I want to run. And I know that if I do that, if I don't do that, like I'm going to feel shitty about myself. Like, where's that come from?
00:40:42
Speaker
Can I sidestep that a little bit or just redirect that to be positive and just show up and be pressed? And if today I don't run fast or I don't feel good or my legs are tired and I'm, you know, have to decrease weight or like it's still that like the sum total, the effort is still worth it. I think it's like very much the same thing on the
The Myth of Balance in Entrepreneurship
00:41:02
Speaker
work front, like as entrepreneurs, right? Like I, I, you, you feel like you, uh,
00:41:13
Speaker
you know like well I want to throw a brand under the bus that I actually really like. With the brand 10,000, their tagline is better than yesterday.
00:41:25
Speaker
Like you can't fucking be better than yesterday every day, right right? Like, and, and so like, but as like, that made me think of that cause it's entrepreneurial originally, like today has to be like, I have to move more forward than yesterday or, or it doesn't matter. Right. And like there's this, you know, the, the road to success is full of like massive dips and lows. And there's actually very few high points, right? Like the winds are few and far between. That's okay. That doesn't like.
00:41:55
Speaker
and It doesn't diminish the effort. But like upon reflection, you're like, it just took a lot of shit to get to the high price. And that was a blip. And that was good. And we talked about this last night. And then you you're like, well, let me move not now. Like there's growth. And so you set yourself back immediately. And you're like, now I'm going to try to learn something new or put myself in another hard position. And then you like fall back below that. So.
00:42:17
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. I just think, yeah, the mindset piece. You're really, you're, you're much sad. You're on the mindset side of things. And I'm a train wreck. You should be the one talking. I was going to say last night we're talking to like about like, you were saying like, I work out like for like mental health, like for like to improve mental health. And like, that's me. And like, Oh, if I don't work out and I'm like more anxious and I'm like not as like present and stuff. And it's like, okay, but.
00:42:47
Speaker
Is that like, as a result of the workout or is that like, you know, the movement aspect of it, or is it because if I don't work out, then that's going back to like the guilt and then I'm feeling anxious because I didn't do that. right And it's like.
00:43:03
Speaker
So yeah, that's really interesting. Yeah. Did you like satisfy, like scratch the itch of the guilt or did like the chemical response from the workout make you feel better? yeah yes yeah I think there's both both in there. so just go and Again, I just think it for better or and worse, and there's a lot of endurance athletes like this, I would say like 90%.
00:43:28
Speaker
If I didn't have endurance sports, I would for sure either be like nicotine, for example, is probably my biggest cracks. like pretty much every, ah I mean, most of the males in my family, you're gonna smoke sigs or cigar. I don't know if that's genetic. I don't know. But nicotine specifically, like I can change smoke or like buy a vape thing or whatever. right And again, like that's that's a negative. right That's bad for your health. And it's okay to be like, no, I'm going to cut that out cold turkey. right But then
00:44:02
Speaker
For me, exercise, I need it in the morning at least to like kickstart my day and make sure that like I am mentally in the state I want to be. And it's like, I'm willing to personally make that sacrifice if that means I'm not drinking heavily or smoking or doing other negative things to myself. yeah And then it's, again, it's like we opened this can of worms of like a bunch of different things in like the nutrition world and like the exercise and like the balance and whatnot. And it's like, that just might not work for some, you know, like you saw it on this trip. It's like, if I don't get a run in, like I'm a different person and I don't, I used to think like, Oh, that's a problem. But now I'm like, I don't know if that's actually a problem because I think that for some people that that they need it and that's okay. I think not recognizing that is a problem. If you're someone running 10 to 15 miles a day,
00:44:59
Speaker
Right. And your social life is horrid. And yeah, your relationship with food is horrid. And like, yeah, that's not better than smoking. That's for sure. Um, and I think that, yeah, we need to maybe combat that a little bit, but like recognizing it and being like, okay, this has become the addiction.
00:45:17
Speaker
All right. That's okay. Now what do we do, right? How do we move from here? If I need this in the mornings, that's okay. But like, also I i need Kaylee to, right? I don't want, I don't want her to end up resenting me or hating me. You know, and then it's like, let's get that. Can we do something together? Does the movement look different? Can we be like hike or walk or, you know, so that's, yeah that's weird you completely changed. like that's right i after opinion And I know a lot of people that are like that. I know a lot of people that like that. And,
00:45:47
Speaker
And that, I think that can be something you're just born with too. And again, it might be trauma, I don't know. But I think, um like my my brothers and I are all like that for the most part. Like we all need, we all have crazy addictive personalities and we all need to do something or we're smoking. And I'm not saying that's funny. Like I truly, yeah I've had that issue numerous times.
00:46:11
Speaker
yeah so i yeah I don't know. I don't know if that's for like the whole balance thing. I don't know if I totally ah agree with that or can you find that in balance. I will say like I'm not, uh, this is, this would certainly probably, well, we can go down this road. It's fine. Um,
00:46:31
Speaker
Like I of hate the word balance. Like I think that's, I think it's bullshit. I think like, because I'll get a little context, like I think to do something, like to care about something and to do something well, like isn't an inherently like imbalanced endeavor, right? Like I actually like in the pursuit of things that I really care about, I'm not looking for balance.
00:46:51
Speaker
right like I don't want my pursuit of like my health and my work to be balanced with other things that I don't care as much about. right right like i hate and whatever like Like I just want the pie chart to be really small and it's going to be like, and I think, you know, in that balance, like swings in different directions or that like pie chart, but like, I just think the language specifically is what I have a problem with because it puts people in a reactive position feeling like they're always fucking it up.
00:47:25
Speaker
Right. They're like, Oh, I'm not bound. Like stop chasing balance. Just do focus on the things that you care about. I call them non-negotiables. Like just put all your eggs in that basket and do that really well. And like, if you spend time in service of the things you care most about who cares if your life is balanced, right? Like just do those things. Like I spend all of my time doing like three things. Um, people are like, Oh, you know what? Cause I don't give a shit about those things.
00:47:50
Speaker
right? And like, I'll sub them in, went not but i'm I'm pumped, like, I'm happy, right? Like, I don't need, and it's different for everybody, right? Like, we're I mean, know your yourself. But I think, yeah, like, balances, like,
00:48:04
Speaker
To what end, right? Like I don't want to be balanced. Um, like I want to go really deep on just a couple of things. And then those are like, it's not all work. Like my relationship with my wife, um, my health, like how I allocate that time and how I fight for that space. Um, my work for sure. Like a couple of key relationships from like a friendship perspective. Um, like, you know,
00:48:29
Speaker
And then I really like to eat like good food. if I like to cook good meals. And I'm going to go really hard on that, too, because it's something that's meaningful to me. like I think that's worthwhile. But then everything else can go to hell. I'm not super interested. I mean, travel, like there's some yeah there's some like pieces. That, for me, is like part of the relationship, component like how that how that's like that cup is filled. that's But that's also balanced for you, right? Totally, yeah. And also, in a sense, it's what like What do you think about all of that? Well, from a Chinese medicine perspective, you have your yin and your yang, right? So the yin is like the cooler, more nourishing, and feminine side of things to more like winter time. And then the yang is summer. So like right now we have the fiery energy. And what I was saying before was like there's seasons for everything. Like in Chinese medicine, we are living in accordance with the seasons.
00:49:26
Speaker
And so like right now being a more young time, like I do talk about like more yin things to balance it out and like. making sure you're drinking enough and like having your watermelon, like to cool things off and not have so much of this energy. So like, I do think like in our practice, at least we're trying to like come to this balance of yin and yang, knowing that you're never going to be fully in balance, but there's always going to equal parts of both. It's like, you're never going to be off balance in that way. Like sometimes you're going to have more yang. Sometimes you're going to, sometimes the yin is going to be more. And again, I think it is like,
00:50:05
Speaker
person to person, like with insane, like it's very individualized and yes, finding that balance like for you. right Yeah, yeah, balance balance for you versus like balance of like, I think people take that literally, right? Like and like they're like, oh, I want it to all be equal. likely Yeah, like I'm gonna work, it's the same as family, it's the same. I'm like, well, that's not feasible, right? Like factually, we just spend most of our lives working. So let's just put that, like that's 80% of your life. Give or take based on your schedule. um For me, it's 98%.
00:50:45
Speaker
um And yeah, so but that's a great, it's a great point. I've, I've wondered, I've tried to, I try to cool down. I mean, you like to use that language, like I really struggle um to have that like,
00:51:06
Speaker
that mellow side, even when it feels, and that's where like I do, I will admit, like I do feel guilt around that. like Even when my body's like, oh, like you should rest and you should live in the wintertime, it's dark. We've got like three hours of sunlight here. and like Clearly this is the time to like just hang, and I'm just like. like just laugh like and like um And I know I can feel, I'm just like, you should just hang out, i take a beat, man. like Take a lazy Saturday.
00:51:32
Speaker
and um That's very much like, it's interesting to think about because I don't, you know, know a lot about that. I'm like, oh, it's very much that like, fiery energy that I try to keep year round.
00:51:44
Speaker
twenty for seven but That's a cultural thing too, because it, like, it used to be in the wintertime. the sun would go down and you'd be living by candlelight and that would get darker. So it was just like naturally like now it's like calm down and like go to bed. And now we can be constantly connected like to the internet, social media. We can have our lights on. It can be warm all the time. We can cook whenever we want. So we're changing the trajectory. I read this really interesting study. I don't remember like I'm not getting
00:52:16
Speaker
or specifically because I don't remember, but it's like that they attract like anxiety and depression in relation to just ah interior lighting, right? And like as the world got more lit and access to lighting became like anxiety and depression just ramped up like exponentially with that but because now you can just be on all the time. Like you used to just literally have to like power down because you were out of daylight.
00:52:39
Speaker
And you're out of access and your fire burnt out and it was there was shit outside that was going to eat you. and like like Not even like not even like caveman, it was just a hand you know ah hundred years ago.
00:52:50
Speaker
um Or even like, you know, my, my granddad, like, you know, depression era, like rural people, like my granddad growing up, he was just like, that was it. We didn't have flights. And the owl house was out there and it was cold. and He's like, so you tried to get all of it done, like, and there's being sad because you didn't want to have to go back outside because it just was a pain in the ass to get out there. Um, and so just everything got power, you know, and they, they were farms that they worked long days and then they were done. Um,
00:53:19
Speaker
And they were tired and they went to bed. Yeah. Yeah. Also the lack of physical exertion, right? Like you don't have the like true like exhaustion. time Not of course, like we live longer now on the set and the other, but yeah, like we also just get in your car and you drive to work and you send your lights that tell you you're awake all the time. Doesn't matter what the daylight is outside. You get back in your car and come home and you like get on the screen. It tells you, your it tells your brain you're awake and they're like people like, I wonder why I'm tired and like feel anxious all the time. I'm like, yeah, you gotta, that is a rule i so I do try to like really limit my like, my exposure. Like, again, I set physical boundaries. I'm like,
00:53:58
Speaker
My, I typically like, I keep everything in my office and it's seven o'clock. I close my door. I leave my phone in there. Um, I don't go to bed with my phone. Don't use my phone as an alarm clock. I actually don't typically use an alarm clock. I just wake up at like five ish. And that seems to be sufficient unless I like need to catch an airplane and need to get up earlier or something. My deal patient.
00:54:25
Speaker
Yeah, I'd like to get get to that. I feel like that's it. Yeah, because I mean, because otherwise, again, like, I'm just for me up at 1am and answer emails, I would know, I've done a lot. So I was like, you know what, like, I gotta, this isn't productive. So I gotta leave this another a room.
Mindful Consumption and Basic Health Practices
00:54:42
Speaker
And it's crazy, like, even last night, I I was like, I'm going to set an alarm because I've been trying to get more sleep. I'm like, I'm tired and I call it seven. like I'm going to set an alarm for six just in case. I will go before my alarm, but but I had my phone on my nightstand last night and like I didn't even ah didn't even have a second to think about it and I was scrolling before I went to bed. you know The phone was sitting on top of a book that I'm reading that I really want to read. and i like I was like, Jesus Christ, like they really are like,
00:55:15
Speaker
It's just built, like, you know, it just, it fucks with your brain. I was like, literally caught myself like after a couple of minutes. I was like, I didn't even know how I got here. Like what happened? And I like put it away and read like an actual book. There's another thing I've tried. It just works for me. Like I don't like to read like a tablet or something. It's the one screens all day. But I was like, this is brutal. Like they they got me and i think they didn't even like, I never have my father in a room. And the one last night,
00:55:44
Speaker
I was like, son of a bitch. They got me. They pulled me in. It's like damn Instagram. Like dog videos, you know? I was like, this is not it. Like, yes, they're cute. This is hilarious. I showed Caleb one. It was awesome. And then I put my phone away. We'll let the Australian Instagrams send each other reels.
00:56:04
Speaker
Yeah, like side by side. Yeah, set and DM'ing each other. I'm like, we're in the same room right now. i you know Yeah. Hailey will do that to me sometimes. And like, when she does that, I'm like, we're going outside. This is dumb. I'm not doing this. I was like, I won't be a party to this. I don't want to get slept in.
00:56:22
Speaker
Yeah. like You're saying it's like creating, like meeting the physical boundaries. Like there were a couple of times on this trip when we were like camping or like on the peninsula, you didn't have service. So if I fall in the car, touch it so like for two days, I just.
00:56:35
Speaker
was great. thank sure i didn't run any And I feel like like having those times so like, then think about more things and expand your mind. So we're not just constantly filling it with stuff that's already the content that's already there. Like learning like trying to be more like you know, more intentional about learning yourself. Like if you could just give it not to like to take in inputs, right? Like that's just what we fill our time with now is like, there's more somebody else like talking at me about a thing that I should and use quotes, should be doing and then used to feel, you know, I'm not doing enough, I can't do it. If you just don't do that for a second. And then just like,
00:57:17
Speaker
you know, go for a run and just think about how that feels. And when you finish that run, I'm like, I wonder what kind of food would taste good. Oh, whole foods that are like, just going to be here. Like, you know, I always say like, you know, if you can't shoot it or like pick it out of the ground, like this probably like, let's move on. You know, um,
00:57:38
Speaker
Because the amount of information is so overwhelming that's out there. And like with my patients, I typically try to send at least like one to three like takeaways after their appointment. And if that's starting your day with a glass of lemon water versus like a cup of coffee or like an energy drink, like that's something that they can like do. Because I feel like a lot of people will see all of that and then look at it overwhelmed and be like,
00:58:03
Speaker
I can't do any of it, so therefore I'm just gonna stay like on this path that I'm already on. And I think like that's the benefit for all of us is we can like kind of like take all of these other pieces for people and then like be people's like coach and like give them these like things that hopefully will be like individualized for each yeah person. Yeah, always I always say, like because you know people,
00:58:31
Speaker
And I'm not, I'm not trying to shit on people like people want to be their best selves. Like I truly believe that. But in route to trying to do that, you're taking all this information like, okay, what's the like.
00:58:42
Speaker
what's the thing, what's the supplement, what's the shortcut, what's the, you know, I'm like, until you, like, you need to try, like, hydration, sleep, and regular exercise, consistently. Do those really well, as well as you can, and in your capacity. And then, if that hasn't checked all your boxes, then let's explore some other routes. But like, you know, they don't, yeah, like, let's look what are the, like, let's just condense it down.
00:59:09
Speaker
Try drinking off wine, right? And then maybe with some electrolytes. And then, you know, eat good food, enough of it, not too much. um And then exercise. Move consistently every day, unless you are tired and are sick and either way. It doesn't have to be It doesn't have to be overly complex, at least at like the foundational pieces of that. right And we like look, we're like, oh, I wonder if it's my, I'm not getting enough x, y. i'm like You're probably just not getting enough sleep and water. right like Let's start there. And then if you check that box.
00:59:44
Speaker
Then let's add on to it. Let's add on to it with supplemental, you know, care. Like, I mean, like your work, like, absolutely. Like it takes a village, right? Like you need people, you need PT or Chyra or acupuncture. Like, you know, don't work. You can be proactive and feeling better, but let's check the bare minimum boxes first. You're like, I think, I don't know. Are there more on this? Is there more than three? Keep covered. Yeah. Keep it simple.
01:00:10
Speaker
the idea ca was very simple and it's just very hard to execute yeah also let say on your environment based surround yourself with too like if you're with Yeah, I mean, if people around you aren't drinking water, like sure you're probably not drinking very much water either. That's the other article thing, too. The product of your surroundings. But I also believe if you're starting to like drink more water, exercise more, eat better, naturally, your community is going to change around you. So yeah there's that, too. That's really interesting, to to like the way that that works, right I think.
01:00:46
Speaker
Cause I've long said that, you know, especially like from the athlete perspective, this certainly applies to like business and entrepreneurship as well as when you set out on a goal, like it's not just your goal now, right? Like it's the people around you need, you need your people on board, specifically really like you have a partner that you're spending time with or sharing your life with. Like now it's gotta be like that person's goal in some way. Cause it's going to impact that you need that person to be on board.
01:01:15
Speaker
and you need right like whatever. ah And it's interesting like as you as you progress like through that goal or into that season of life and you get like the people around you shift, right? Like as you, I don't know how to be interested like here if this happens to you guys or has happened, but inevitably like, you know, get focused on a thing like the friends are like,
01:01:42
Speaker
you know, we're raging till three in the morning and feeling like shit Saturday and Sunday morning. And I was getting up and going like, I don't talk to those people anymore. That was a long time ago. but You know, like, so you kind of shut those people and you align with people that are like making different decisions. And then with business, you're like, people that were playing small and like, not, you just wanted to like, you know, and I'm not, everybody's got their own path with like work and that's totally fine. But like, you know, didn't have much to talk about with those people. So like you end up realigning with, you know, finding new people. and I think that's a huge part of it, right? we we we I think we we convince ourselves oftentimes that those endeavors are like a solo endeavor and that they happen in a vacuum. And I think we discount how much support is required and like how much buying from our like
01:02:31
Speaker
community, like like immediate family, for sure. If you have people in your house, those people got to be bought in 100%. And need to support you in a very meaningful way. And because you have to figure out like, you were talking about that earlier, it's like, what is it? You know, what's your time with Kaylee look like versus your time on the weekends? And how do you like, I've had that conversation, like Kaylee and I have had to figure that out. Like, yeah, I don't, there was a time and I just like left.
01:03:01
Speaker
when exercised and then came back and like fell asleep. And cause I'd go, like when I was racing bikes, go ride bikes for like 10 hours, come back, I was whooped. And then I'd like do the same thing Sunday morning and then I'd wake up and go to work on Monday. And I was like, well, that doesn't feel very, I did that for a long time. I was like, this isn't very fun. So you need that buy. I don't know what you guys have experienced been with. Has that shifted for you or you guys found like the same people still with you?
01:03:32
Speaker
I've always been the same person. We got a lot of these conversations too lately. That's been the hardest thing. Oh yeah? But yeah, I'd say my life for sure. but mean If I read a memoir someday, it will pry away around that. Is it going to be called progress requires pruning? That's been the biggest thing working with you, Christine, honestly.
01:03:54
Speaker
and like it doesn't end. No, you know, and it's like, you have to put everything essentially some point. And I don't know, it's been such a struggle because at the same time, it's like, well, you talked about addiction again, right? So it's like, I could grind and grind and grind and grind and grind, right? And then you get here and no one's around. Right. So having the awareness, you know, I saw that in like,
01:04:24
Speaker
mentors, podcasters, whatever, at least in my opinion, I saw that type of stuff, right? So then like learning from your mentors and different people you look up to that are older than you doing what you want to do, right? It's like, you hear them talk about this. So it's like now in my ah mid 20s, it's all right right now. It's just like, I'm already thinking kind of like, okay,
01:04:45
Speaker
I want to prune, right? Which is hard in itself, but at the same time, what do I not want to prune? Like, can you prune parts of the onion, but then keep, you know? And I think you can't, right? But it's...
01:04:58
Speaker
It's yeah, it's hard. And I think that that's been my, sp not well, that's why, you know, that's why it's pruning and not like for any use that for specific analogy, like to its end point. It's like pruning and not cutting down the tree. Right. Right. Like you prune with the tree still there. And then I think that the way that I think about it is that also like us, the skill set, and this is a muscle to be developed and like ties back to self-awareness because you have to know.
01:05:24
Speaker
who you are so that you understand like some of those people will actually come up with you. Right. But that's a really hard thing to sort out in the moment because it's because you can also fall victim to like dragging those people with you versus like supporting them in route to where you want to be right like they can come with you or like they're hanging onto your shirt and you're dragging, right? And like my watch, right? Totally. Yeah. Like if, with again, with that metaphor, like you're not going to go as fast if you're dragging that person to, um, or, or, or dress you it doesn't have to be a person. Like it could be, uh, like an opportunity, like an involvement. It could be like, I'm involved in this portion of a business or thing. And like, I need to prune that. And if I like, and.
01:06:15
Speaker
holding onto that thing too tightly are not able to see it clearly. Like I'm, it's holding me back. Like I'm trying to drag that thing to a place that it's not supposed to be. Um, and I always say like, you can't drag people towards their full potential, right? Like they have to walk there of their own volition. Um, and that's,
Navigating Relationships and Emotional Investments
01:06:34
Speaker
depending on the personality. um And certainly people, I think some people were prone to this than others. And depending on kind of the role that that relationship of talking about people, and depending on like the emotional attachment you have to a thing.
01:06:49
Speaker
Right. Like I've done this with like business ventures where I just like poured my heart into it and I should have just cut it loose. It wasn't working. I should, but I was just like, I bet. Like if I just, you know, and like, and you know, years past, like, you know, okay, you'll be all right. This is done. But you were just, I was so, I was so emotionally invested. And then I'm not saying you should remove emotion from it, but again, that's a very, that's a hard muscle to, to develop, to know how to navigate that in real time. How much do I pour in?
01:07:20
Speaker
versus not versus when it's the time to cut and run versus, you know, there's a lot of these parts and I've, yeah, I don't know. Some of it maybe it's just like lived experience, you know? I feel like, I'm not saying i um I'm, neil I feel like I am a little better at now because I've just had to do it a lot. And so I can get to that point a little bit faster and be more confident in it.
01:07:47
Speaker
um but it's still a hard thing to sort out. um Yeah. And it's, it's lonely too. Like four, like four years ago, we've talked with so many times four years ago, and I am very comfortable saying this type of stuff because like, like we're talking about, like the people that I would be referencing here, like are listening to this, you know? Yeah. So which is ironic and funny, right? yeah You know, and it's like a good like analogy of what you're just saying, right? But four years ago, the people I was associating with,
01:08:17
Speaker
I don't talk to like any of them. You know, there's a few like, I have a few college friends still that I, you know, talk to and associate with for sure. There are like a few lifelong friends like that, but it's kind of like you're saying it's like, those friends stick with you no matter what, fruit you know? yeah um And on the one hand, it's like, okay, cool. Cause now I have different, a different community. Like I would have never probably met you two, right? Had I not,
01:08:44
Speaker
I mean, I have the courage to move on from things, right? And on the one hand, it's like, oh, that's fucking sick. But on the other hand, it's too, there's lonely stages too of that, right? And mean I think that's entrepreneurship and ah in a nutshell, I forget, I think it seems Thalia Welch who talks about this. um But like, no, it's not that, it doesn't matter. But like you go through, it's hermose, that's who it is. You go through like that lonely period of yeah entrepreneurship where like you haven't like,
01:09:09
Speaker
You've kind of started out growing old circles, right? But you haven't entered the new circles yet, yeah right? So you're just like in this in between, and it's just like, fuck, this is lonely, right? And then it's like, oh, maybe I will go back a little bit, you know? And he talks about too, he says, he says, people don't root for people that need it.
01:09:27
Speaker
Yes, that's so you only like you only hear the cheers when you've already made it, right? He's like, when I fucking needed it. And I was lonely and didn't have a mate like you weren't there to know what was true for you. Right, right. Like you'd only get the the praise when you've been recognized for the thing that you had to fight to accomplish. Right. And they like that always really resonates and like, yeah, like to your point, I guess what we think is like, yeah, it's it is lonely. And I think too, like, I mean, I don't want to sound like a bummer. And like, you guys might have different opinions. But um I just think like the circle gets smaller as you progress. I think, you know, in my experience, and I don't think that's a bad thing. I, you know, I think those specific to people, like those relationships get more fruitful and more meaningful versus like, you know, like, I think that's, some of that's hard to getting older too, just like,
01:10:15
Speaker
When you're yelling is to attract people, right? 25 people friend group. and butledja You know, and as you get older, you're like, people with like if people fall away. And then you, you know, you build like stronger, more meaningful connections. And them specifically with business, you know, there's just a lot of people that aren't going to support your endeavors, you know, you you're gonna get a lot of pushback and you're gonna get a lot of people that are gonna tell you like, you're not spending your time right? Or you shouldn't work as hard? Or why are you doing that? Or what do you you know, just just settle in just be and if that's not the person you want to be like, you're gonna have to leave those people behind, right? And that's, that's a really hard thing to do. Like I've had to do that pretty recently.
01:11:00
Speaker
I've just been like, this isn't like, I don't, I don't want to be around this person. I don't need someone telling me that the way that I'm spending my time, which I know is in alignment with my values and my vision is not, is not good, right? Like is the wrong use of time.
01:11:19
Speaker
I'm like, well, like I got a decision to make, like I need to be around that energy. I can make it like a purposeful conscious decision to like shift to someone who see, but in, but I haven't found that person yet. Right. And this is a relatively news, like the last, so I'm like, I just, to your point, like a no man's land. Right. you're Like, well, who's the person that sees it and is like dreaming bigger than I am. And it's like, not only are is that appropriate, like you're thinking small.
01:11:49
Speaker
Like you could be doing this, right? Like that's the people you want to find. But to your point, like for mostly like, they're not where they at, right? Like when you leave them behind, you're not in the, you haven't talked to the people yet that are those people, you know, the one or two people that you know. Yeah. That's a tough thing. Yeah. Well, it's good to hear it never ends. Like I'm going through that a little bit too right now, obviously. the stuff we've been talking about I think the the thing that makes them better, that makes it less,
01:12:17
Speaker
brutal is just to to really lean in and double down on your confidence and in who you are and like your direction. right And be like, no, like this is it. I'm not wrong. I know like this is what I'm supposed to be doing. Well, and something that we talk a lot about is like help the people that want to be helped. It's in with like our patients and clients. And it's like talking about like relationships and stuff. like I kind of feel like that's the same thing. And like talking about like getting drained back and stuff, I'm very big. like If you want to like come with, please. Come to our group runs. Come do this. like i'll I'm happy to like share everything that I know with you, like if you're questioning and like want to like bring me down.
01:13:07
Speaker
then sorry, like I'm going to keep moving on. And I think it's just constantly finding those people who are going to keep allowing you to up level. It's like, okay, I was here with these friendships at this point. And now I learned with this or had this experience and I'm here. And just like, I feel like that's like the pruning part of it too. It's just like constantly up leveling. And then another thing that I think about a lot is like,
01:13:37
Speaker
but people that you're spending time with, like, how do you feel when you leave? And like, if you feel like a worse version of yourself, yeah so that's script chances are, they might not be your people. That's a good, like, it's a good indicator of like, when it's time for her to come back to that knowledge. Yeah. i Yeah. Yeah. I think you and i had an experience. I know for me, I've I've not listened to that, and you know, for too long, right? We're like, well, I should, because I've met my friend for so long, like they know me so well.
01:14:13
Speaker
but I feel not even like shit, but I just like, it didn't fall it didn't fill my cup and I could have been doing other things at that time. or And then you get on like a, you know, you spend a day with someone else and they're like, oh, they've been a day, asked me questions and learned more about me and vice versa. and Like, they know more about me right now than anyone else, you know? yeah And so I'm gonna hang out with them, you know?
01:14:41
Speaker
I think that's a great indicator. It's like someone who asks questions and listens, right? Like is it one sided for talking about relationships? Like that's become a bigger, like leading indicator for me. It's like, if I'm talking to someone, I'm just like, I'm like, you.
01:14:58
Speaker
That's not from the place of wanting, that's not from the place of ego, that's from the place of mutual respect. If you're going to have a relationship with someone that is mutually supportive, I think it's important to be heard, to have a space in that relationship. If you're just like, just talk at me for a while and then walk away once you've got what you needed. I think that's another That's another part of that like growth process is to, yeah like are there people that are, i just ah like are they kind of filling your cup? Are they just like draining it and you're left high and dry? Have you a break from that? yeah yeah Yeah, I don't know. I wonder. I think yeah yeah it never it never ends.
01:15:47
Speaker
You know, um, which again, like, I think that's a good, I don't know. I, again, like with self, not sending that self aware, but as you like continue to build that, I think that's also like, if I'm in a period of training that also lets me know that I'm a period of growth.
01:16:02
Speaker
which is exciting, right? Because the only reason that would happen is if the people that took me to where I am now are the people that are taking me to where I want to go, right? And so that I'm en route to where I'm trying to go, which means that those people that I need to prune and are no longer in a line. So you're like, yeah, this sucks. It also must mean I'm moving forward, right? Even if it doesn't.
01:16:25
Speaker
there's no like maybe clear signs of it or maybe some big thing hasn't happened. Like it has to be, otherwise those people would be fine. Those relationships would support who you are and what you want. And if they're not, then you're at least like think, you're certainly thinking differently and you're probably moving in a different way that like has put strain on that relationship, right? And that's like, that's why it doesn't work is because so often like specifically when we're talking about like high achieving is that it,
01:16:54
Speaker
people don't want, this is an awful thing to say. I i feel bad when I say this, but I do like, I know that it is inherently like truth is that like people don't want you to succeed because it highlights their inability to accomplish their goals, right? Like they're like, they know they're like, I could do it, but I'm not. And then if you do do it, whatever version of that is yours, it's easier. They want to drag you back because it makes them feel better. You never get judged by people.
01:17:22
Speaker
No. Yeah. That's our goal too. right love I love that. That's so true. Yeah. never once yet No one's ever shit on you who's who's like doing more than you're doing, right? The only people that are shitting on you are the people that are trying to drag you back. Yeah. And so I find that with like, I feel like it goes and it goes both ways too with like people that, you know, as Keelan and I have now,
01:17:47
Speaker
gone from just being the mentees, right? Like, I feel like we've definitely grown into mentoring roles of our own too, for certain people. And I've even noticed that for myself, for certain things where I'm just like, no, I just want to fucking win. Like, yeah, you know, there's, yeah, there's, is there's a fun game to that as well. Totally. It's like, that's just what all win. Like I, I'm big on when I see people that have similar mindsets to me.
01:18:15
Speaker
It's like, I don't really care if we're necessarily working together, but you succeeding, I believe will help me succeed in some way because you have a similar mindset. yeah And it's like the rising tires are so close, right? I'm just so fucking big on that. yeah you know We've had so many conversations about scarcity mindset and and whatnot. And like I just wish me more people understood that if we can all win, life and its I'm so big.
01:18:43
Speaker
It is not as there is some game, you know, and like we've talked about that a lot in the coaching space. Is it like, if you're successful, it's somehow like pulls from my ability to be successful, right? Preferably. Like I don't feel that way, but, um, and that's just not the case, right? Like I, I mean, I couldn't agree more like, and that, I mean, that's what TEC exists for. Like that's largely like my mission and how I show up in the space is like.
01:19:08
Speaker
just piece like If you're successful, like it makes everyone better. right like what If we can all work to just elevate this space, um that's a win.
Improving the Coaching Industry and Client Compatibility
01:19:22
Speaker
If you're doing great work,
01:19:25
Speaker
Like I know for a fact that then I show up and talk to someone and like that is elevated in some meaningful way. Like how people see coaches or how people see the subject matter, how people in like same view, like if we're all just like supporting like someone's ability to like be their highest and best and doing that in a way that's like in alignment with great work. Um, and like a supportive network, like that makes everyone better. I wish that like,
01:19:53
Speaker
Yeah. If I do nothing else in the world, like of all the things that I'm involved in, like I truly like the thing I'm most committed to is like changing that narrative in like endurance sports, right? In the coaching space. Like I want everyone to have a kick-ass coaching business. It doesn't make me less successful or you less successful. Like go nuts.
01:20:18
Speaker
Build it as big as you could possibly build it. If we had, you know instead of like whatever risk the the stat is, 30,000 people in the United States like are considered themselves a coach, 93% of those people are doing it part-time. um If that was flipped, if 93% of those people were doing it as a career and making half a million dollars a year,
01:20:42
Speaker
ah like what ah Are you fucking kidding me? like how How much like more impactful and cooler would that experience be for people like us who are like in that space of doing it as a career? and like no And people are like, oh, no, like I can't. If you get an athlete, like that each took one for me. I'm like, don't be so small minded. right like Look at the bigger picture. If we elevate, that creates an environment where like everyone's playing big. It opens up opportunities. And you're not charging $20 for a train plan. You're charging $2,000 an hour for something that you've dedicated your life to, right which is how it should be. And it will be that. like
01:21:21
Speaker
I will fucking die on this. I bark my words. But and and all know from there, like the sky's the limit. But yeah, I couldn't I just that there's so much opportunity there.
01:21:36
Speaker
And that goes back to like progress requires prayer. Do you need people? Like, that's why, I mean, you know, like you guys are important part of my community, especially on this couch talking about it. Like I'm not talking about this to people that don't feel this way, right? I'm not going to try to convince somebody who's like, Oh, this is what my 10 athletes and I want to, you know, like, no, let's go nuts. Right. Let's, let's build. Um, whether it's like the coaching company or your practice, um,
01:22:04
Speaker
Like that's the, you need people around you to like see the vision and don't like scoff when you're like, say what I just said, right? Which I've said that before and people are like, oh, that's crazy. I can never do that. I'm like, then you need to move on down the road. Like it will happen and you will be bummed that you played so small and here you are, you know, making $2,000 a month with your 10 clients, like working a hundred hours a week. Right. but Well, I mean, like we all attract different people too. Like totally I attract s certain acupuncture patients that like may not fit with somebody else. Or there's people that I'm like, maybe you're not the best fit for me. So go see somebody else. And again, that's like elevating the entire profession. And like someone might like be a perfect fit for Jacob, but not for somebody else. It's like, that's okay. Cause there's like you were saying, like there's people for everyone.
01:23:01
Speaker
yeah And even if that's co-workers or like business partners, like same thing. like They might go find like their other group. yeah That fits their desires more. That's great. yeah i've I've recommended other coaches to athletes so they don't want to work with them. If you don't all work with me, that's cool. You should go check out these people. you know And I feel like it's unfortunate how little that happens.
01:23:28
Speaker
Right. Yeah. It's like, Oh, I can't have you. It's like, Oh, then I'm not sure. Coaches don't don't take, they don't spend nearly enough time. Um, or, or yeah. Like understanding who their ideal client is and doubling down on that. Like, just, just work with your people to your point, Kelly, like,
01:23:49
Speaker
If you know that person, just work on attracting those people and then other people can go elsewhere. You know, like the way that you coach athletes and the people you attract are different than I attract. Fantastic. Just, you know, like you want more of your people and I want more of my people and everyone has a lane. And yeah, like so many coaches spend and inordinate amount of time and energy pouring into you an athlete that's not the right fit or a client that's not the right fit if you're a service provider in some other vertical and but from a place of scarcity. If you just send that person on, like I know for a fact I've seen it happen so, so, so many times. I get my own coaching practice. Send that person on and five more people, the right people come your way. yeah right For a second, you might be like, You know, X amount of money, I couldn't. But if you just be clear on like who you are and who you're talking to and who your audience is and your expertise, blah, blah, blah.
01:24:48
Speaker
Those people are there in drugs, more than you could ever work with. You will be maxed out and you could make as much money as you want to make and build all the products you want to make to service those people, but just like, you know, the upper end place is scarcity. And then you end up working with those shitty people. And that they're not shitty people. they just You guys aren't, you know, you're not some pilot people.
01:25:09
Speaker
Um, I did that for sure. My first start, I was like, take them off. Yeah. And I was like, yeah, I was like, I was like, Ross sucks. You know, but they didn't, of course they didn't suck. Like it was the right fit in my style. The way I think about.
01:25:26
Speaker
All the stuff we're talking about, the way I think about the world, and then that's evolved from when I was a coach in my early 20s. Well, you kind of have to do that first too, right? and I can mean, as you're figuring out who you are as a coach and whatnot, and there's an element to life. Yeah, at first, you had to wonder if whoever wants to work. For sure. But then there gets to be a point where it's like a diminishing churn. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think if you can have some Yeah, I think it's a balance. I mean, have some guidelines of like who works best. And then also, yeah, like you're trying to build your coaching business. So don't stay poor. Um, I think during that time, you're like finding who your ideal client is too. Like when I first started out, I was like, that's a great I want to work with everyone. And now I'm kind of like, okay, this is more of like who I want. I know you're doing a lot more of that. Like I'm still like figuring out who I am. Yeah. Yeah.
01:26:23
Speaker
That's a great point. That's a better way to that thing. Yeah, I didn't have the words for reality. There's a discovery phase. Yes. So you're like, okay, I get it now. Like, yeah. So it is okay to be open. I think oh like again yeah that's a and not super closed off because then that can like silo you into different boxes. right So I think we talked about this on the last time I was on to about how Like when I first started coaching, it's the same thing as like my own athlete journey, right? Like I, coaching, I really wanted to coach like people who wanted to get like BQs. For example, like that was, you know, something cool to me. Like I wanted a BQ, right? And like, everyone wants to work with like elite athletes, right? And at first that was like something that I never really wanted to work with elite athletes, I guess. But like, you know, you think about it.
01:27:14
Speaker
Right. And then you work with a few people and you just realize that's like, Oh, wait, I don't actually, they're not for me. Right. And discovering who like my ideal client is and whatnot. It's like my ideal client are people that have problems that I've had. Really? And I'm sure it blows down to, right. And I've never been completely happy. I don't fucking know what that's like. I, you know, I, my ideal client is the client who works 40 to 60 hours a week is the high performing option for newer or like.
01:27:42
Speaker
When I say entrepreneur, I don't mean it just like they're running a business, but they're like high performers in their career, right? They're like that growth mindset individual that like just wants to learn and do better. And that could be a six-hour marathon or it could be a three-hour marathon. Like it could be all over the board. It's just, yeah you know, and that took years to figure that figure that out, right? so Yeah, i think you I think you do attract. I've found that too. Like you you kind of attract what you,
01:28:12
Speaker
from your own experiences and like what you put out in the world. Like I'm very much cynical. I attract people low and behold, similar to me, right? It's like super like busy people, you know, and I don't mean that like, but like have a lot of, they work a lot. If it's just like you're saying like high profile jobs or high achieving, they tend to be like high achievers to be high achievers in all areas of their life. They're trying to squeeze it in and it's like other responsibility. i'm like Oh, I get that.
01:28:42
Speaker
Great. brian but yeah I'm like, I can talk about that every day. Yeah. Yeah.
01:28:56
Speaker
yeah And I think accepting that is a huge part of the journey, you know, like, again, helping people who want to be helped, right? Yeah. You know, the D1 collegiate athlete.
01:29:07
Speaker
was i was I have no problem with not coaching that athlete. I would send you to someone who was a collegiate D1 athlete. That makes sense to me. right yeah i I also struggle. We've talked a lot about this still too. I also struggle with like the reverse of that and like how.
01:29:25
Speaker
in like the car industry, like we talked about this last time I was here, right? The best salesman doesn't necessarily make the best like cars manager, whatever sales manager, you know? And in the coaching industry, a lot of times we look at coaches like, oh, because they were fast or because they were in in high school, of college, like they're a good coach, right? And that's something that also like, you know, I struggle with a lot and You know, this has taken a lot of growth on both of our ends. We've tackled this a lot too. It's like, I'm not going to necessarily change everyone's mind on that. And again, it goes back to the person that realizes that everyone, like 10 people will realize that. And then they come and talk to like myself. Right. And.
01:30:11
Speaker
capitalize on that, right? Like, I'm very big on, you know, when someone is like, Oh, wait, he, he actually like, worked this thing or job to me, right? He wasn't fast in high school or college. And he picked up running as a hobby. Maybe he doesn't know how to fit this into a schedule, right? like It's just different, right? And so I've struggled with that side of it too. And like,
01:30:32
Speaker
how far do I go for trying to teach the masses that what's at the same time also not caring too much so that it can help the people that are, that do realize that, you know? So that's another thing that. Yeah, I don't know the, that's a, we've talked about this. I'm gonna try not to get on the soapbox too much, but yeah, I mean, that's, I think there's a massive opportunity, you know, in terms of like the true value that coaches provide And the importance of that relationship, you know, whether or not a coach can run faster, run faster, has done all the distances, done is is irrespective of their ability to build strong relationships with an athlete and listen and communicate. I mean, that's what coaches are, right?
Evolving Coaching Philosophies and Hybrid Athlete Movement
01:31:18
Speaker
Like we're professional communicators.
01:31:20
Speaker
um And yes, also, I have been a high level athlete. That didn't help me communicate. um It gave me exposure. but i again you know There's part of that for sure. like We want to know the dynamics of race days and this and the pressure and the strength mental study. I'm putting ourselves in those situations, but um it doesn't matter how fast I was. you know And it doesn't matter what I'm doing now.
01:31:44
Speaker
yeah people was what do you What do you train them for? Nothing. Anyway, I'm listening. yeah you know like it doesn't and Maybe if I am or I'm not training for something. or if i would have not do you know and like um those are all you know I just think it's separate. right like and Certainly we use our own athleticism to continue to inform our coaching practice. and i think That's been one of the most impactful things for me is like as I've grown as an athlete and evolved.
01:32:12
Speaker
from somebody who 100% focused on being really fast to someone who thinks about consistent movement much differently and is still very focused on like my performance and health, but the role of that is very different in my life. like that's That has evolved separate to the skills that I have that i have built to be a really good coach. And all of the skills required that have made me be a really good coach have nothing to do with my athletic performance, right? It's my it's my listening skills. It's communication. The list goes on. And then like, Taylor, the athlete is only here with some experiences that certainly help inform how he communicates and listens.
01:32:58
Speaker
Um, but yeah, no, I think, I think that's one of the biggest opportunities or or narrative shifts in the coaching industry is doesn't fucking matter if you're fast. Right. Like, and I want, I want athletes. I don't care if really, even if that's where coaches come from. Like if they're like, Hey, I was this fast athlete and I was a D1 runner and now I'm, I'm passionate about this and I want to build a coaching business.
01:33:27
Speaker
I actually don't like, fine. What I want to happen is I don't want athletes to lead with that question because it short changes the value of the coach. And it like, overshadows the questions they should really be asking. Right. Right. Which is like, so I want like, after I want to change the narrative for like, the client side, which is like, let's, you know, ask better questions. You know, the fact that they are fast isn't going to make them the right coach for you.
01:33:57
Speaker
Um, right. And that's kind of like the coach wants to start coaching because they were that athlete and that was just like, you've so many people. Right. I don't really have a problem with that. Like be a good coach, like pulling your skills, be, be, be good at your craft. Don't stop with like, I was fast. So now I can coach. That's not enough.
01:34:16
Speaker
But if you continue to like hone your craft as a coach, I just want athletes to know there's better questions to ask. And like don't pick a coach because they were fast in college, right? Or they just ran a ultramarathon, right? Like, I've had athletes who are like, oh, don't worry about you because you're a professional mom biker. I'm like, that's not why we're going to work together.
01:34:38
Speaker
let me like, let's talk about some other stuff, right? Let's make sure we're connected in a different way. Because that doesn't mean you have to deal with my ability to coach you. Right. Right. Which is like, that's a relationship. The fact that I was fast on a mountain bike is just to find a skill that I had at one point in my life. Just because you were a four point out student does not mean you're gonna be a good tutor or teacher. Totally. Right. That's a great thing. Yeah, I didn't grade in school. I was shit to you.
01:35:05
Speaker
You know, all impatience. Not good at, right? Like that's embarrassing. Yeah. Like I'm not, I'm not your guy. And I'm not like, I'm not trying to, I'm also trying not to like shit on like the D1 athlete either. That doesn't, cause there's kick-ass coaches. Totally. I refer to them, right? So I'm like, and they have experiences I'm never going to, right? And so there's truth to that too. It's just. Again, there's a place for everyone. Right. Exactly. Yeah.
01:35:34
Speaker
Which is what some D1 athletes did in random circles on the track, so you're all, it's all metaphor. Is there anything we missed? Topics? Ideas? I feel like we can talk for...
01:35:49
Speaker
I feel like this was great. We have the Olympic 10K. We need to turn our hand in and work out to hit. All right, we're going to watch the 10K and we're going to hit a strength workout. We're going to practice what we preach. We're going to do it from a place of value. It's the workout we want to get in. We don't feel like we have to. Because we all really liked each other. Because we all want to share ideas and take out.
01:36:11
Speaker
you and your wife to dinner. jesus really good You guys are much better runners than I am. I'm hoping that I can whoop your ass in strength or anywhere. I'm hoping that I can get be hard one small dilemma of not feeling like an absolute turd. You have like 150 pounds sandbag out there. I'm not sure I can lift that thing. It's happening.
01:36:31
Speaker
It's happening. I think that something that I'm huge on is, although I said this to my straight coach once, I was like, I want to be stronger than the runners, but faster than the lifters. And I want you to like be able to go into weight rooms and like hold my own, but then like go, you know, if if some runners are going and doing some like easy seven 30 minute, like I'm not, I'm not going to run for me now for sure. like ah sub form right But that's what we're calling hybrid now.
01:37:05
Speaker
Right. I want to be hybrid. Yeah. And I'm, I think you don't like that term, right? I don't know. I mean, I don't, I don't, I don't mind. I don't have a problem with it. I think I have heard just some funny, um, like pushbacks from that, that, that are like some, some folks are like, Oh, you mean like, so you run and you string train and you like, do so like, isn't that just what we call an athlete? Right. I just want to be, it yeah. yeah because i you know yeah there Typically, you would like have several modalities that you would like use to hone your skills. Strength training would always be a part of that. and Not like lifting heavy, like that's a different thing, but yeah. so I don't know, I don't have a problem with it. I think it's just coexisting in both spaces. yeah That's why Nick Baer has been so special for so many people. yeah because He was this buff bodybuilder, you know strength dude. He's like, I'm going to run a sub-free on marathon. He got so much fucking lead.
01:37:59
Speaker
Dude's rants up to 40. Yeah, he's not. Yeah. Yeah. It's not bodybuilding. He just does it fucking on. Yeah, I'm just chill. I'm just like, yeah I'm working on and i'm living and you know, I do. I do really think it's cool. Like, I mean, as, as someone who just really appreciates like the evolution of my personal athleticism, I do like the idea of just being like, like, I don't know, like, I'm not in that kind of shape, especially running shit or in strength side things compared to someone like Nick, but, um,
01:38:29
Speaker
I like the idea of just being able to like do, like, engage. Like, somebody's like, hey, let's go do a 50K in the mat. Like, I want to be ready. And somebody's like, before let's go do a 500 pound deadlift lift heavy and I want to be ready. So I like the idea of just being capable. Right. And kind of being...
01:38:45
Speaker
Yeah. No, I go to like you yoga every Thursday with Kaylee. She's all super bindi. I look like a fucking idiot there, but I'm in it. Like it's fine. You know, like I'm like a 200 pound dude, like in there doing yoga with a bunch of little ah yoga people and.
01:39:01
Speaker
like great like they're all like high five you know like they think it's funny that I'm there and you know my like big legs don't really bend the way theirs do but that's fine like I'm pumped it feels fucking great um we're gonna go home and bike 50 miles when you get back to Minnesota so you might be able to just like well you said it was gonna be 100 now but I'm saying yeah 100k um maybe like doing but Yeah, to be able to go out and just do that. Yeah, it's really cool. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think if we, I think if generally, if we kind of collectively could, I would advocate for a bit more of that mindset, just like as athlete, right? Like, you know, you, you have to be, there has to be specificity. If you want to be a runner, you need to run.
01:39:47
Speaker
But also knowing like, but cause I just like, I did this, I would say I did this wrong, certainly when I was like, all I did was write my book. And I missed out on a lot of things that I, and like, lost a lot of other types of fitness that I really had to fight to get back in the years that followed like me racing at a high level. And like, so I just, I think it just have more appreciation maybe for like other modalities and just know that like it all plays a role. Like it all, yeah, if you need to run, like run more for sure, but also like ride a bike.
01:40:23
Speaker
drink Train train in the winter like lift heavy if that seems cool or do crossfit or what you know like whatever um we get really pigeonholed right I like sometimes that you know maybe coaches play into this so I'm like not not us in this room but um Yeah, I think there's enough because it just keeps things fun too. I'm having way more fun with exercise. And like now that I haven't ended, I did when I was younger, you know, just did, this is what I do. And, you know, and I was fine. I it produced results. Like for my goals at that time, that was appropriate. Um, so again, it depends on everybody's different, but yeah.
01:41:03
Speaker
I think that's where hybrid I think is getting it right. All right. If it encourages people to like to mix it up and have fun and do engage in some different things and like try some other modalities, I think that's cool. Right. It keeps you doing it for your life. Yeah. Is that our mic drop ending moment? We'll carry this mic drop in. Thanks for having us. Yeah. This is fun.
01:41:42
Speaker
a