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Debra Wilson REVEALS ALL About Star Wars, Jedi Survivor, Mark Hamill, Cameron Monaghan & More!
80 Plays1 year ago
Cere Junda herself is here today, from the beloved games Jedi: Fallen Order & Jedi: Survivor! Debra Wilson spoke to Austin and Scotty about her personal connection to the force, and how it's much more like a religion to her than anything else. Debra also revealed that she made it her life's destiny to work with Mark Hamill one day, manifesting it through the force when they got to work together on Mad TV. Finally, Debra gushed over Cameron Monaghan as Cal Kestis, and their friendship both on and off-screen (or video game?). This is the Wayseekers is a Star Wars podcast, with new episodes every other Friday @ 8:00am CT. Join your hosts Austin SWE and Scotty Holiday SW as they navigate their ways through the Star Wars galaxy. Follow the Podcast: https://twitter.com/wayseekerspod https://instagram.com/wayseekerspod https://tiktok.com/@wayseekerspod https://facebook.com/@wayseekerspod https://threads.net/@wayseekerspod Listen to the Podcast: linktr.ee/wayseekerspod Follow Austin SWE: https://instagram.com/sweaustin https://twitter.com/sweaustin0 https://www.youtube.com/@AustinSWE3 https://threads.net/sweaustin https://bsky.app/profile/sweaustin.bsky.social Follow Scotty Holiday Star Wars: https://www.youtube.com/@ScottyHolidaySW https://twitter.com/scottyholidaysw https://instagram.com/scottyholidaysw https://threads.net/@scottyholidaysw https://bsky.app/profile/scottyholidaysw.bsky.social https://tiktok.com/@scottyholidaysw
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Transcript
Reddit Speculation on Video Game Likeness
00:00:00
Speaker
And there are a lot of people online who are like, oh, she must have it in her contract that they make her look like her. Because someone put on Reddit five images of me in different video games. Oh, I'm about to. Deborah, hang on. Give me a second so I don't go there.
Introduction to 'This is the Wayseekers' Podcast
00:00:20
Speaker
Welcome back to This is the Wayseekers, a podcast for Star Wars fans by Star Wars fans. My name is Austin SWE. I'm here with my co-host Scottie Holiday, who just got to talk to one of their favorite Star Wars characters of all time. Scottie, how do you feel?
00:00:36
Speaker
Immediately, I want to say overwhelmed, but also at the same time, amazing and connected. Yes, absolutely. What a wonderful conversation. But before we get into all that, this is the way Seekers releases every other Friday at 8 a.m. Central time. But we like to switch it up sometimes. So make sure to subscribe to us on YouTube or your podcast platform so you never miss out on an episode. All right, Scotty, I'm super excited. So what the fuck
Interview with Deborah Wilson
00:01:02
Speaker
are we doing today?
00:01:02
Speaker
Well, today we sat down with Jedi Master Sierjunda herself, Deborah Wilson from the game's Jedi fallen order and survivor. We got to discuss her real world connection to Star Wars and the force, the relationship she has with Cameron Monaghan and her spiritual journey of becoming Sierjunda.
00:01:20
Speaker
Yes, Deborah Wilson shared some beautiful things with us and I'm so excited for people to see this conversation. I don't even want to say interview because this is a conversation that we got to have with Deborah Wilson, but we're not here to bore you guys with ourselves. So we'll pass it to our past selves through the force who got to talk to Deborah Wilson. Let's get on with it.
00:01:40
Speaker
Scotty and I are sitting here with Deborah Wilson. You may know her from her time on Mad TV, The Arkham Universe, Halo, Destiny 2, Call of Duty, and the reason you're all here on this Star Wars podcast, Seer Junda in Star Wars Jedi Fallen Order and Survivor. Deborah Wilson, welcome to This is the Way Seekers. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you for having me.
00:02:04
Speaker
Yes, thank you for being here. We're so excited to talk to you today.
Deborah Wilson's Gifts and Philosophy
00:02:08
Speaker
I know Jedi Fallen Order and Survivor are some of my favorite games, so I'm so excited to get into this. Yes, yes, absolutely. Now, Deborah, I want to start by talking about why you're actually here on This Is The Wayseekers today and kind of the story behind this. So around Thanksgiving time, I reached out to you for a present for my lovely co-host here, Scotty Holiday.
00:02:31
Speaker
uh through cameo because i saw you were doing cameos and scottie's obviously a huge fan of uh jedi survivor and uh was kind of mourning the death of uh your character's your agenda during this holiday season and not only did you make us a near 10 minute cameo in character as your agenda but you sent us these pendant necklaces and
00:02:58
Speaker
I want to know what was this about? Why did we deserve these necklaces? And also, what are these from? Did you make these? Yeah. Why do you think you're undeserving of them? You have to ask yourself, why would I even mention why I am deserving? Shouldn't that be something you might consider breathing in every day why you're deserving and not why you're not deserving of something? Or why am I deserving? You're right. You're right.
00:03:27
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, including I am deserving today because I am deserving today because and on the other flip side of that coin, I am grateful today because I am grateful today.
Deborah's Connection with Sierjunda
00:03:43
Speaker
I am grateful today because in any given moment that touches your heart is when you can spark that truth. And as you can see, Sierra and I are very closely tied together in the nature of who she is and in the nature of who I am and in the nature of us coming together symbiotically. She's very real for me and it's a symbiotic relationship.
00:04:06
Speaker
I love that. And that I mean, just talking about the necklaces and our interaction, it made me feel so much more connected with you. And in general, it's so refreshing to have someone like you who I've seen, like you mentioned in a game that I relate to or love. And I gave them to you because they represent light. I created them because I've been creating necklaces and pendants.
00:04:26
Speaker
for years that are about light and they glow so that when someone sees it glow and they see that light and they ask you about it, you're not just talking about your pendant, you get a chance to talk about yourself.
00:04:39
Speaker
Yeah, I love the positivity here and just the overall vibe you bring. Because like Scotty said, it's like, it's kind of rare to see like, you know, even on the Cameo app, I'm not trying to knock anybody else, you know what they do. But you know, some people charge a lot of money and make like a five second video like, hey, how you doing? You know, but you really take time to interact with the fans. And I think it really shows that you appreciate that connection just as much as they do. Very much so.
00:05:07
Speaker
very much so because you know why for all the times that you played the game for all the times that you've watched me and something for all the time that you took the time and the money to do that it's it's special for me so to go like oh i'm gonna go all out it's special for me because i know all the times
00:05:22
Speaker
you spent that time and I have one time to do it. I got one chance to not get it, you know, to not fuck it up. I got one chance to really knock it out of the ballpark.
Deborah's Star Wars Journey
00:05:31
Speaker
And I love doing it as opposed to Well, I have to do it because they spent the time and the money. No, it's like, Oh, my God, this is gonna be so much fun. So every camera I do, I put something into it for them personally, and I have a blast doing them.
00:05:44
Speaker
Oh, it shows. It really shows. You know, it's a great exercise and improv. It's a great exercise and talking to people. And I always go to the messages and ask people for personal information and include it. I've been with you this whole time.
00:05:58
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I love that. And I'm gonna put a little video of it, not the full thing, because it's special to us, but I'm gonna put a little clip of it in the editing so people can see what we're talking about here. I want to move on to a little bit about Seer Junda, your character in Star Wars. This is a Star Wars podcast. And I want to ask just straight off the bat, what was kind of your relationship with Star Wars prior to the role of Seer Junda? And has it changed since landing the role of Seer Junda?
00:06:28
Speaker
No, it hasn't changed. I have been immersed in the world of Star Wars universe ever since I saw it in 1977. My sister had come from school and she was like, I saw this, this movie, this was all blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And eventually I went to go see it at the, I'm from New York at the Los Astor Plaza. And after high school, after one day, and so I went to school in Manhattan.
00:06:55
Speaker
And when I saw it, I knew that this was a God moment, a calling moment, a moment that crystallized and exploded what my life would become as I continued to evolve through it. Like not all the details, those are the details where we have choice in life.
00:07:17
Speaker
But everything that was meant to happen in my life followed the thematic idea and the thematic concept of this film and through Luke Skywalker. And so I kept going back to the point in which I think I only paid maybe three times to the point in which the manager would see me and I would go to pay
00:07:38
Speaker
uh and the magical letter and letter and fed it's okay because you'd already seen me kept seeing me and i saw it about 47 times oh wow i memorized the dialogue i would go sit and i would watch it and i would mouth the words with every with them there were people there
00:07:54
Speaker
Mm-hmm and every time that music the very opening came in, you know You know a long time ago on a galaxy far far away and then the music that John Willems core hits me It would hit me the same way every time in the heart it would hit me the same way And it was almost like a preparation for a spiritual journey. It was not just watching a movie It was a preparation for a spiritual journey. Yeah, and then when it was re-released again that music hit me in a large theater as I'm older and
00:08:21
Speaker
And again, hit me. It's the here's that here's my journey. Here's my spiritual journey. Here's the beginning of the spiritual journey all over again. And now I have things that are in retrospect while I'm watching it now. I jumped to the future. I use the force to will Mark Hamill into my life. Okay. I use the force to
00:08:46
Speaker
move through dark experiences like Luke Skywalker did because his greatest experience was his identity with himself. His greatest enemy was the enemy within. And he could not battle Vader until he got that. And so when I saw that those at the time, I was not in the entertainment industry.
00:09:12
Speaker
And seeing those movies had tailored aspects of my life that I had to identify with and aspects of my life that I had to reconcile with.
Meeting Mark Hamill
00:09:22
Speaker
Gotcha. In my own self-esteem and my own self-identity. So when I saw Luke Skywalker, I'm like, this energy isn't me. And so the first time I met Mark Hamill,
00:09:34
Speaker
was creating, you know, being aware of that identity, but it was a little overwhelming. So I freaked out. I hyperventilated, started to get dizzy, and he sat me down, and he got me water, and this was in a store. At the Warner Brothers Studio store in which, in Manhattan, where he was promoting his amazing and prolific voiceover work as the Joker in Batman, the animated series for Warner Brothers.
00:10:04
Speaker
And he kept talking to me and asked me what I did. I told him that I did some sketch and some improv. And he said, it was, I love, here's, now keep in mind, take these words now what he's saying for the future. I love sketch and improv. Oh my God, I love sketch and improv. I love comedy improv and comedy sketch and stuff.
00:10:31
Speaker
And I said, yeah, well, you know, I do it in a show, but it's like on weekends and because I had a city job, a full time city job. And he goes, well, who knows? You know, I don't know where you go. Maybe we'll work together one day. Maybe I'll do it with you one day. And then I looked at him and said, don't patronize me because I'm not a lunatic fan. I know you're Mark Hamill and I know the differentiation between Mark Hamill.
00:10:55
Speaker
and Luke Skywalker. I'm saying that your portrayal, you using your body to embody this being really moved me. And now if you are taking this seriously, and no disrespect, but if you're taking this seriously, I can use the force to will you into that experience. And he goes, okay, do it. And goes, okay, when the time is right,
00:11:24
Speaker
I'm ready. He didn't tell me to do it. He didn't challenge me that way, but he was like, okay. If that ever happens, I'm ready. Right. Okay, I love that. Fast forward to Los Angeles years and years later. I'm in LA. I auditioned for the show. I booked the show.
00:11:53
Speaker
I'm like, you're getting celebrities on the show. Can I talk to the producers? Mark Hamill, Mark Hamill, Mark Hamill, Mark Hamill. Of course. And there, at the time, he wasn't doing a lot of films. He was prolifically known as Luke Skywalker, but in the mid-90s, in the early 90s, in the mid-90s, he didn't seem to have a presence on camera that much.
00:12:16
Speaker
And they were like, well, Fox, Mad TV was on Fox. They were doing a lot of crossover promotions. So a lot of people who were on Fox shows were guest stars. People were in prime time who were getting known.
00:12:36
Speaker
were guest stars, including Bryan Cranston. But because the producers knew, I was really gunning for Mark Hamill, they said, well, you're doing promos, you're doing promotional stuff, talk shows, morning shows, that kind of a thing. You can talk about Mark Hamill there.
00:12:55
Speaker
Oh, okay.
Career and Manifestation Journey
00:12:56
Speaker
So I um, I did on morning shows and stuff and I did a talk show And of course they do pre-interviews and in this pre-interview they asked you about yourself and I say yeah, yeah Mark Hamill I'll say about myself blah blah blah blah blah. Here's a bullet point. He's a bullet point He's a bullet point of my life now Star Wars Star Wars Star Wars moved me Star Wars Star Wars Star Wars and so this show that I was on and Contacted Mark Hamill
00:13:20
Speaker
He was not available. They said okay. Well, you know, what can you do a call and we'll patch you in he said absolutely say can we have a PA come to your place and have you sign a Star Wars monopoly set for her Oh Deborah Wilson. Oh, yeah. I love mad TV. Sure. He signed it on the show and It was wonderful. So I realized
00:13:44
Speaker
From New York to here, I'm a degree of separation. I mean, in the stage of this thing. I wasn't a degree of separation when I met him, obviously, but getting him on the show, I was a degree of separation. Yes. Right. Because he acknowledged my presence because he'd watch my TV. He was watching my TV at the time. So I go, OK. And then they were like, OK, Deborah, we're going to say this now because you're going to keep asking us and we're going to have to tell you.
00:14:10
Speaker
We did try to get him on the show. You know, you keep asking, but we're going to let you know now. We did. His management team said no. Oh, no. So I went, OK, well, doing the show on Friday and here's how the forest comes to play now. Doing the show on a Friday night.
00:14:33
Speaker
leaving my dressing room pretty much the same time that Phil Lamarr, who's also a prolific voiceover actor in so many things. Yes. Phil Lamarr is leaving at the same time. His connection with Mark Hamill, just in general, is they both loved comic books. Makes sense. Mark Hamill created a comic book called The Black Pearl. Yes. On Dark Horse Comics. Phil tells me
00:15:03
Speaker
Mark Hamill is going to be signing.
00:15:06
Speaker
Uh-oh. It's comic book at Universal City Studios. Universal Studios, essentially, in Hollywood. The reason they call it Universal City is because it's so big that Universal Studios is its own city here in California. Wow, that's crazy. It has its own zip code. It has its own fire department. It has its own police department. Universal Studios is so big, land-wise,
00:15:33
Speaker
It is its own city. So when you come to California and you come to Hollywood, you can also go to Universal City, Hollywood. Wow. And it is a city. Got hotels, everything. So I say, well, you know what? He doesn't want to do the show. I know that now. I'm not going to ask, but I can thank him for the Monopoly board that he signed and remind him that we met in New York. I go.
00:16:00
Speaker
And I finally, and I wait online like everybody else. Two hours later, I get to the front and I'm watching. I mean, the front, I'm not directly in front of him, but I'm watching what he does. Stack of comic books. They're already signed, forcefully yours, Mark Hamill. He writes in your name. Gotcha. But he always writes forcefully yours.
00:16:24
Speaker
And he did that on my on my monopoly set. So he wrote forcefully or not. So all of these comment books He took the time for days weeks, whatever to write forcefully or as Mark Hamill and then he adds your name So it becomes a routine he goes down to pick it up and says what's your name? And by the time you get to what's your name? He's looking at you and you're signing it because he hears what's your name? It's Tom
00:16:49
Speaker
Hi, Tom. And he's signing it. Smart. I watched this the whole time. It was like clockwork. Goes down. What's your name? Tom. He already knows your name when he looks at you. Hi, Tom. And he signs Tom. Makes it easier to move people through. Because the line was long. I waited two hours. So you can imagine how long the line was. Yeah, I bet. So I finally get to the top and goes down. What's your name? I said, Deborah. He goes, hi, Deborah.
00:17:16
Speaker
Oh, my God. Oh, wow. He recognized you. I do. Deborah Wilson, Mad TV. I love the show. Oh, my gosh. I love the show. Oh, my God. Me and my family and my wife and my kids. We always love it. I love that show. Did not remember me from New York. Oh. And the reason he didn't remember me, obviously, had been in time. But the person who was
00:17:46
Speaker
was now and he's meeting the Deborah Wilson that has centered herself in the force. That is growing herself and in this evolutionary process and this transmutation of something greater than the title on the planet that she's been given and the title on the planet that she has accepted.
00:18:14
Speaker
moved beyond from the inside to the outside, beyond the three-dimensional world in terms of coming here to act and make money and buy stuff.
00:18:27
Speaker
still evolving beyond that and still learning self and still growing self to know self, but is immersed in the concept of this is what my life is meant to be, this growing process, this growing process, this growing process. And so I'm sure that my energy and my aura was different in its presentation, that he's not going to think about the young black woman with the long dreads.
00:18:53
Speaker
who was, because then you're just picking up somebody's energy who's a super fan. And there are hundreds of super fans. And there are millions of super fans from Mark Hamill. So I'm not going to stand out. So he goes, so he says, I love the show. I really love the show. I said, oh, that's I'm so I'm so grateful. I just and I'm such a huge fan of your work. Can I remind you of the first time we met? And he goes,
00:19:23
Speaker
Yeah, tell me. Not like, where's this leading to? He's like, yeah, tell me. Because he meets a lot of people and people are like, I met you back in and he's not gonna remember. He's like, yeah, I'm sure. He's a polite guy. He's an affable guy. He's also very accessible. So he's an amazing human being. So he was very polite about it. Yeah, tell me.
00:19:45
Speaker
And I said, there was a young woman, a black woman who came to you at the Warner Brothers Studio store in Manhattan, 59th Street, Fifth Avenue. She got to the front of the line.
00:19:57
Speaker
And even though she was told this is Warner Brothers and told by everyone there who were the Warner Brothers gatekeepers, not to mention Star Wars, I would be remiss to let you know that this is a pilgrimage to see you for this particular reason. And as all of that emotion came bursting out, the same way the emotion came bursting out, the first time I heard John Williams score and that immediate moment, that's when I lost control. So I said, I lost control, you sat me down, you comforted me.
00:20:26
Speaker
You made sure I had water. You spoke with me. And I told you that I was doing some sketching improv here and there. And that you loved sketching improv. And then he was like, I still remember you now. Oh, my gosh. Wow. Oh, my God. And I said, I told you I could use the force to will you into my life and to work with you. However,
00:20:55
Speaker
I know that this is not really your cup of tea because my producers said that you didn't want to do the show. So I can't thank you for the Monopoly set. And he goes, yeah, yeah. But what do you mean I didn't want to do the show? Well, my producer said that you turned it down. He goes, I didn't even know. Oh, wow.
00:21:21
Speaker
I said, well, your team management, your representation turned it down because it wasn't big enough for them, for you, for you to do the show. And he goes, here's my phone number. Oh, wow. Tell your producers to call me directly. And Deborah, keep it. Keep my phone number. Keep it, too. Wow. And then he came to do the show and initially
00:21:51
Speaker
They had written a sketch that I was not going to be in with him, so I would not have worked with him. Oh. The writers were like, let's bring back this character Deborah did called Coco Latette because this funky walker dirty talker sketch with Phil Lamar and anyone who came into the show, it was just between Phil and the celebrity. But let's get Deborah in there as Coco Latette because she is a 70s Carrie like character that she's done before. That makes sense. Let's put her in.
00:22:21
Speaker
It's a live shoot. Audience, we're behind the flats before we go on. Market just from one side, I enter from the other. AJ, who is, AJ Johnson, who is the stage manager, says, countdown, all right. People are watching playbacks, live laughter from the playbacks. All right, settle down, everybody. When you're counting something down, you don't go one or zero.
00:22:48
Speaker
You just go in five, four, three, two, one and zero are quiet because that's when you know to take your cues. But in that moment it was so quiet, Mark Hamill was on the other side smiling and waving and I was on the other side looking him in and smiling.
Star Wars' Influence on Deborah's Life
00:23:11
Speaker
When it got down to one in our head and the audience was silent, I looked around and realized that this was manifested by the force. It became overwhelming that years before to years now,
00:23:32
Speaker
to me going to Warner Brothers and begin with in New York, to me going to Universal City in California, to me ending up on a show which was not even in a concept, to becoming a concept, being realized as a show, to me auditioning, and there's always that possibility you don't get booked, to me actually booking it, to getting to that place,
00:24:03
Speaker
to have this happen, to them to say, is people to say no, to Phil Lamarr coming out at the same time of the dressing room on a Friday night, to him telling me about the comic book, only because he's connected to comic books, to him telling me that Mark Hamill's gonna be signing them, to me going, it's just to say thank you,
00:24:33
Speaker
to this moment on stage where he's actually working to what I said from the very beginning without knowing how all of the dots would be connected, but the force knew. Because the force slows through us. It is within us. It binds and penetrates. It binds the galaxies together. So whatever world you're living in, it binds us. Another reason why I believe in the force and another reason why I believe that there is life in other galaxies and on other planets. So.
00:25:02
Speaker
This moment takes place in the quiet moment like meditation. I realize what's happening. It's almost like the moment you're born and you burst forth into sound and color and you burst forth into a truth. I was bursting forth in this truth. All you hear by zero one is someone bawling. Oh no. I fell out and started bawling. The crew panicked thinking something happened to me. Oh no.
00:25:31
Speaker
They come over, I tell them what this means. I tell them what this means, and I'm looking over at Mark Hamill, and he gets it. Because when I start bawling, I'm crying. I look at him and start crying. And it was just hitting you all at that moment, all of those experiences. That culminated to this moment.
00:25:51
Speaker
That's beautiful. And I love that. Star Wars, it's so much more than a movie, a game, a book, a comic. It's meaningful to so many people. And I feel like when they say the force binds everyone together in a spiritual sense, 100%, totally agree. But also in the sense that it brings all these people together in ways that is just, it goes beyond a story. It's something that people can take into their lives. These pendants, you know, talking to you here,
00:26:21
Speaker
Is the force working and bringing us together like it should? Absolutely. And on a larger level, because I always meditate on the larger picture. And the larger picture is when George Lucas created that, he was using the force without even knowing it was called the force. He was using the nature of God within him and he was an open vessel. So when he created this, the larger picture is good versus evil, vanquishing, discovering oneself, believing in oneself,
00:26:50
Speaker
connecting to something larger than oneself, believing in something greater than oneself, going through the journey of your pain, your sorrow, your sadness, your suffering, then your forgiveness, forgiving of others, the battles you will go through in your life. That is life in and of itself as a being on this planet.
00:27:14
Speaker
And everyone can write many things. Every movie has that theme. Every single movie without fail has those themes. But with George Lucas and the Star Wars franchise, which now is the Star Wars universe, it said, let's go beyond ourselves, not just to a galaxy far, far away. Let's go beyond ourselves to something that is greater than ourselves so that we can serve this.
00:27:42
Speaker
Because this movie was about the force and this person and all of these beings coming to that space where the empire, which did not believe, tried to usurp in the physical way, take over, be overlords, destroy.
00:28:01
Speaker
the force, which is greater than that, said to replenish the life is to replenish one's life within and build on the outside. So people who are fanatics and know everything are about the battle within themselves, the strength within themselves, the power of when themselves, and they find their like mind, they find their tribe,
00:28:21
Speaker
When they play and they play together, they can play from all over the world. That becomes their tribe as well. And a lot of times there are people within that tribe that have ADD, that are on the spectrum, that have been marginalized, that have been called geeks, that have been called nerds, that have been called whatever. That are different aspects of a society that is looked down upon.
00:28:47
Speaker
And they find their family, they find their strength, they find their love, they find themselves. Yes. All started by the creator and father, George Lucas. Yes. And shout out to George. And shout out to George Lucas for marrying a black woman. Yes. Yes. Yes. 100%. He holds it down. She holds it down, baby.
00:29:15
Speaker
Yeah, I mean even even in your guys's games the Jedi fallen order and Jedi survivor I mean look at the journey of Cal the journey of seer everything that these characters have gone through but hope Persists and they're surviving and they're there and it's beautiful and it's inspiring I mean Scotty has made videos on
Bond with Cameron Monaghan
00:29:35
Speaker
videos about how Jedi survivor inspires them, you know, take it into their daily life It's it's beautiful
00:29:42
Speaker
And no stretch of the imagination, because the forest works within me and I just allow it to flow, I just want to be an empty vessel for it, and an open vessel for it. No stretch of the imagination that the relationship between Sir Junda and Cal Kestis was the relationship that was built between Deborah Wilson and Cameron Monaghan. That shows. But the last, oh, I'm about to, Deborah, hang on, give me a second so I don't go there. Not quite yet.
00:30:09
Speaker
I can talk about my relationship with Cameron Monaghan for an eternity. Because that's the way I feel about this person. That's the way I feel about this being. That's the way I feel about his presence on the planet. A love and a respect and admiration runs prolifically and profoundly deep and it's emotional for me. And I hope that he gets a chance to see this.
00:30:37
Speaker
So the last day of shooting was my death. So I don't think it's the stretch of the imagination that the last day I work on it, which is like a death of this done, was the last day I was done.
00:30:57
Speaker
Because it was the only scene we were shooting probably in the afternoon, everybody else was shot by the afternoon after lunch, but this was the only scene, if I recall correctly, the only scene that was being shot. I was already in my feels.
00:31:16
Speaker
It's the scene where he has to catch me by that time. Cause all the stunt stuff that we did, all the choreography that we did was done at another day. So now it's like the real interaction here in our mocaxes. So Tom Keegan, an amazing director and an amazing friend. I can call him my friend. He's directing it and here we go. We're all in this moment.
00:31:46
Speaker
And I'm taking it from the stumble back from Vader. And as I'm about to fall, Cameron's there, comes in. Duh. My only word I needed to say was chiller. So I'm feeling his body because he's holding me. I'm feeling this happen.
00:32:12
Speaker
I'm moving because his body is moving. So I can feel the emotion welling up in him. My eyes are closed and all I could hear is his sobbing and my face getting pelted with tears. As I lie there. And then he gets up. You don't talk. Go into it again. Same thing. His body is wracked.
00:32:41
Speaker
And he holds me and he cries. Tears. Third time, shoot it from a different angle or make sure everything technically is there. Same deal. And the director doesn't say cut right away. He just gives us the moment to really feel this moment out and have that moment. And I could tell that's because he got everything he wanted. He just wanted to see where this would go. I think, I believe. And he goes,
00:33:11
Speaker
And cut. That's it. You know, essentially, you know, all right, we got it, you guys. And people like, wow, because you had Lucas, Lucasfilm limited team there. You had Respawn Entertainment there. And so it was that moment where we could not look at it. We didn't look at each other. We kind of got up and tried to shake it off.
00:33:39
Speaker
And, um, the director started talking to Cal, Tom started talking to Cal and I'm like, and I see them talking and I finally gather my druthers to go over and talk.
00:33:56
Speaker
And their conversation was, as I moved into it, was how much they meant to each other in this job and this work and watching Cameron grow from the first time he did it into this and watching Cyr and Cal grow and watching Deborah and Cameron grow. And I join in and I'm chiming in his praises and everything.
00:34:26
Speaker
All three of us can't stop this. It won't stop. It won't stop. Every day, even though I did not know Cameron or his work at the time, I knew of his work, but I did not know his work. I did not see him in his work. Every day as we develop this working relationship,
00:34:50
Speaker
Every day I was inspired by something, another moment, another watching, another watching to the scene, another thing that he does. His silliness, stuff that we do together, the silliness, the conversations in between, the lunches, the talks, every day was something. And it got to the point where every day it was a smile and a hug. You could not see each other without hugging each other.
00:35:14
Speaker
We could not, he never walked in without hugging me. Touch, a rub, a sit together, a laugh, a joke, personal stories. Meeting his girlfriend when she came to set and just the gifts because I started making light penance but they were life favors that glowed in the dark.
00:35:36
Speaker
I love that and I made them in pendants and I made some of them in crystal So I started working with resin to make these crystals and putting the saber in there And then adding the rest of the resin so you had these crystals with lightsabers in them as pendants So from last from the very first shoot that we did To the next shoot which was two years later for survivor watching Cameron grow
00:36:01
Speaker
Checking him out at star on you know Star Wars celebrations and who he was as an individual and the silly stuff Watching him online for is and watching a movie with him in it and finding out what he's doing My birthday came around he was in London, but he made sure to send me this beautiful email Beautiful email of love And then
00:36:29
Speaker
when we were doing the final party with Star Wars Jedi Survivor, and it was a huge Hollywood blowout. I mean, it was as Hollywood as Hollywood could get, and that's not my thing. It's never my thing. I'm not a party person.
00:36:47
Speaker
I like my home. I like my quiet. I like my tempo. I like my space. I will go out and have a good time. But after all the stimulation, I want to unwind decompress. So I'll go nuts and have a great time. And then I got to get out. I got to get out. I have to get out. The first time I went to Las Vegas, I got sick. I got physically ill because it was sensory overload. I can imagine. I got really physically ill. I couldn't take the lights, the moving sound. I'd never heard anything like that. It was overload.
00:37:16
Speaker
And so the music was loud. Everyone was partying, tapping, getting attention to say hi, hi, hi, moving into other loud spaces, coming outside. And I had a friend with me. I brought a young man with me who was a huge fanatic, game fanatic. And I wanted him to have that experience. So I never bring friends that are not into it. I always find people who are like, I'd never have this experience on my own. And I'm like, you will now.
00:37:42
Speaker
So with me and so I always bring gamers. Mm-hmm. I always bring gamers who are like fanatics Just so they can have an experience in their life about this sure just in case they don't have it again They probably will but I want to be a part of that for you. Mm-hmm. Beautiful. So we're about to leave and
00:38:02
Speaker
And my desire was, oh, I guess Cameron's still in. I guess he's still in London because I haven't seen him and now I'm about to leave. So saying goodbye. We're about to leave. Something in my heart just stops me. Get in my tracks.
00:38:23
Speaker
And, you know, the other person is looking at me wondering, okay, she's not moving. Maybe she's finding her car key. I don't know, whatever. It stops me in my tracks. And I look over to my right. And there he was. He was talking to people. I didn't even hear his voice because everything was so loud, but just something stopped me. Something just stopped me. That force connection.
00:38:49
Speaker
And it didn't stop me where I had to come back around. Didn't stop me where I had to walk a distance. It stopped me where he was. It stopped me where he was and I looked over and there he was. And I just looked at him and I just, I didn't want his attention yet. I just wanted to look at this amazing young man, this amazing actor.
00:39:12
Speaker
who was so deeply and profoundly vested in this project for a number of reasons, number one of which is because he deeply cares about everything he does and the people around him. And I contact the hug, I fall into his arms and I just fall. And again, I get a chance
00:39:39
Speaker
to tell him how much he means to me and how he has affected me. And then I asked, I said, listen, your work on that last day, we had just three takes and each take I could feel you were so deeply in that moment. I took everything that I could to remain and just accept and receive that as I lay there in your arms. What were you thinking of?
00:40:09
Speaker
What what if you don't mind your actors process and I was taking it from that actors process If you don't mind sharing if it's not too intimate before I go, what was your acting process? He says I just thought about us. Oh That's beautiful I thought about you and me and the things that i've learned from you and watching you and all of our silliness in the front and and That it is You know it everything has a depth
00:40:37
Speaker
And for what we're doing here, even if I came back and I don't think I will but even if there was and they continue this because it's huge But even if they brought me back in this moment, it is a death Mm-hmm. You're experiencing a death because this moment will not happen again You'll watch it in video games But between us this moment as we experienced it and had it was not will not happen again And he's like I thought about
00:41:01
Speaker
what you mean to me and our relationship throughout this work thing and how it became a friendship, a love. I think it's pretty clear too, just showing the growth in your relationship, even in your performances from fallen order to survivor, you and Cameron or Cal and Cyr definitely seem more connected as well. I think that really
00:41:23
Speaker
played into the relationship into the game from what was in real life into the game. And I mean, I can't lie, I also sobbed at the end of the game because it was such a powerful moment. It's a sad moment, but it's also, especially at the end, you know, in that final scene where it's like the final goodbye, it's so moving having Cyr still there watching over him. And I love that you all have that close relationship together. It's not just something that's in the game.
Connection Through Video Games
00:41:51
Speaker
It crossed over into real life as well.
00:41:53
Speaker
Yeah, because it is real life. Again, like Lucas, what he created was how do we take real life and everybody's feelings and thoughts, emotions and experiences that they'll go through in their pain, their sorrow, their suffering and their celebration and joy and have them see that there is something greater that binds us all together. That is life. So what you felt is not just sympathy for someone else. It's the emotions that come up in you because you're a feeling, thinking, loving human being.
00:42:22
Speaker
And you connect to pain. You connect to sorrow. You connect to loss. You connect to death. And I think people who play video games, the reason I admire them is because the investment is not just in the money and the gameplay. You're also investing in the friendships you build, the plans and the groups you play with across the world. You're also investing in doing something together.
00:42:47
Speaker
and knowing people and getting to know people. I've had people on cameo tell me that they're getting married or that they fell in love with someone from another country and they're moving there. That people who that there are plans in various games and groups and various claims games who who as
00:43:08
Speaker
Society might call them misfits have found each other and made powerful connections and built bonds that are lifelong Unlike the other people who are not misfits will come and go as the wind and use social media to do it to hurt others
00:43:26
Speaker
Um, and so it's just this powerful place. I
Deborah's Life Philosophy and Jedi Role
00:43:30
Speaker
mean, it's just an amazing place and I did not know that back then I just knew that I was affected in a way, but it was my journey and it was my life journey to To recognize and make choices because that's a big thing with seer the choices we make to
00:43:48
Speaker
Build that relationship with the force build that relationship with yourself and Thus have a greater commitment to the build the relationship you have with life and the people around you with the environment with animals with
00:44:07
Speaker
Charity with compassion with the world around you what kind of a What kind of a mission statement do you have for your life? Because a lot of people will come and they'll tell you you know their goals. I want to be a mom one day I want to be a CEO one day and That's what you want to be But the who you are and who you've been created to be was given to you by the force It's already within you and who do you want to be on this planet?
00:44:36
Speaker
Yes, definitely. I did want to ask too, as somebody who is usually called alternative, I loved seeing you as, you know, Debra Wilson, a powerful, strong Jedi master. And I'm curious, were there any parts of Sears design, especially in Jedi survivor with the shaved head or the tattoos that was kind of your influence in that? I had no influence.
00:44:58
Speaker
Really? Wow. In fact, in any of the characters that have my avatar, I have no influence except what they wanted to do.
00:45:09
Speaker
I don't know why they were inspired to do it. And that was just choices, their choices. I had no. And there are a lot of people online were like, oh, she must have it in her contract that they make her look like her because someone put on Reddit five images of me in different video games. I saw that. And I'm like, I have no influence. They chose that. I didn't choose this. I didn't ask for it. But it was that was what they did. And so for me, it was like, oh, that's really cool.
00:45:38
Speaker
Wow. Okay. Okay. What you've been describing with Cyr, do you feel that with a lot of the other characters that you portray? I have to. I want to and I will. The connection has to be there. Now, the connections are all different experiences of the connection. Right.
00:45:54
Speaker
They're different experiences of the connection. So they're all different. Like I said, you can't make the comparison. But when it comes to Sir Junda and I, that space was held long ago with Star Wars in general. And so when you're writing a character like a Sir Junda, it's going to be par for the course of Gentle.
00:46:22
Speaker
believing in the force, using the force, having a background of pain and being driven by that pain, we all have. And so it was painful as well as effortless to allow myself to experience stuff that I've done where I've gone through a lot of pain.
00:46:47
Speaker
and stuff in which it's not pain based on somebody else but my own belief system about myself and my unworthiness and my little self-esteem.
Star Wars Celebration and Cameron's Inclusivity
00:46:56
Speaker
And Cameron, like I said, I began to watch every little nuance about who he was as a human being and not just watching him as an actor. And there was the Game Show Awards did a special event at the Hollywood Bowl.
00:47:14
Speaker
which is an open band. I don't know if you've heard of Hollywood Bowl. And it was all about the orchestration and the music. And so on this large jumbotron and large jumbotrons around Hollywood Bowl, which is an outdoor venue, a seated outdoor venue, they would play the themes and edit together pieces of that video game from the cinematics.
00:47:41
Speaker
And a large, the LA Philharmonic played the music. Stunning event. I was invited by Darren Ross, who was the stunt coordinator. Okay. On both of them. He's a very zen, very powerful, very connected and very centered man in the forest.
00:48:04
Speaker
Mm-hmm. I can imagine. So, of course, it's lifelong friendship. Right off the bat. He said, I'm gathering a bunch of people. I'm paying. I got tickets. Deborah, do you want to go? Absolutely. Thank you. And so when it came to introducing Star Wars Jedi Fallen Order and Star Wars Jedi Survivor for the orchestration of the music, little did I know that Cameron comes walking out on stage.
00:48:34
Speaker
And he comes out, and you know he's a model. Did you know he's a professional model? Yeah, trust me, we know. His fine ass comes walking out, something really funky and cool. And out of all the introductions of people who did the introductions, at the end of his introduction, the last thing he says is, happy Pride Month, everyone.
00:49:02
Speaker
Yes, I remember watching that clip. He was the only one. That even told me more about who he was.
00:49:11
Speaker
Yeah, that was that was great as a queer person because I'm a musician and as a queer person. So watching the music because I already love it. And then just that little sentiment of Happy Pride Month. He didn't have to do that. No one told him to do that. But the fact that he took the time to just give a little bit of an acknowledgement made me love him as an actor, as a character. Cal Kestis that I love so much more. But let me tell you this. I know Cameron. No.
00:49:37
Speaker
And when he did it, it wasn't because it was just Pride Month. He did it because he is an inclusive, loving human being and you wouldn't be forgotten because you're always thought of. I love that. Yeah. As someone who's watched Cameron since Shameless back when he was, what, 18 years old and
00:49:57
Speaker
watching him kind of grow up for like 12 years or whatever. I love what he brings to the queer community and the representation and just the care. Like you said, he didn't do it because of performative reasons or because he was trying to make himself look better. It's because he believed it. And I love that. I love Cameron.
00:50:22
Speaker
And I love the stories you're sharing here about him. Thank you for sharing as well. Absolutely. Yes. So I wanted to ask, you kind of brought up the stunt coordinator and such.
Technical Aspects of Playing Sierjunda
00:50:34
Speaker
Something fun in Jedi Survivor was that we got to play as you, as Syrjunda in the game. Is the process different from the motion capture with doing that before? No, because that's all technical. That's all tech. Because they're building that.
00:50:50
Speaker
They're building that on web, on the web. I see. So yeah, and all you do is for stuff like that, the technical thing is if you're before you're about to go into the character being made to play and given all those moves, you freeze. So when Vader comes down and I freeze, you have to hold that position.
00:51:11
Speaker
and you hold that position and as you hold that position that's when they create the model in the game that holds that position and then takes off and does what they do. So if you'll ever notice in the game when Cameron was going off on a different journey he would do this. And then go again because that's the difference between him doing the mocap and then freezing at the end of it because he's about to go on to another mission and then them going all right let's make that model and then go off in the mission because the missions that he does that's that's computer. And I don't know if you saw
00:51:41
Speaker
There is a YouTube video of the cast of Star Wars talking about the making of. If you haven't seen it, it's mind blowing because then you'll see. You'll see the actual shooting of us in MoCap.
00:51:57
Speaker
And then next to the video of the game. And you'll see how the effortless, flawless between the two. They show you how seamless it is. Between the two. But it is acting. And you'll get a chance to honestly, if you haven't seen it, put that on the top of your list. In fact, hang on. Just to show you in general. Sure. Here it is. It's called the cast and characters of Jedi fallen order. It's this video here. Hang on.
00:52:27
Speaker
Maybe I haven't seen it then. I thought I might have, but I'm not sure. It's amazing seeing the mix of different species and people and kinds of characters who are in these incredible, fantastic worlds and planets. Because this franchise is so large and so huge, there are many stories that are yet to be told. Anyway.
00:52:54
Speaker
That's some of it and you'll be able to find it and it's called, again, it's called the Cast and Characters of Jedi Fallen Order.
00:53:03
Speaker
Amazing. I love that. Thank you so much. Absolutely. And I did want to ask, we do want to thank you for coming on today. One final question. Sure. What's your favorite seer gender, either quote or moment between fallen order and survivor? What would you say is your- Again, my honest answer is I don't have favorites because they're all powerful because they were all truth. There was seer's truth and they were Deborah's truth.
00:53:28
Speaker
And those are the things you live every day or you're hoping to live every day and rise to the best of who you are meant to be on this planet every day and every lesson, every mantra. It's biblical in terms of having a space that holds words that you can live by outside of a game that is a testament to the character you claim you want to be as a human being.
00:53:58
Speaker
Yes, so when we talk about since room because we'll say things like, you know this character I play this character this character But it's human beings and like we also use that in terms of the character of who you are, you know, okay his character of You know meaning how he is in the world and how he responds to people and how he is with human beings his personality So we liken the word character to a personality of somebody because they're one in the same they really are and so
00:54:26
Speaker
My character is about that love is about that forgiveness and a good and a huge theme for her was needing to be forgiven for what she did and not being able to go back and then not reconciling it and needing to reconcile it because fear was not whole.
Podcast Closing Thoughts
00:54:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:54:45
Speaker
cut the force out of your life or to stop using it is that you are not whole. You will feel like you are unworthy and unwhole and you will use what happened to guide your path. And therefore your path will be rocky unless you isolate yourself. Which is what she did to a certain extent. And so her reconciliation and her desire had to be what I call in my life that when the world hands you shit,
00:55:16
Speaker
God created you to be minerals because when you put certain minerals together, you get fertilizer. So the pain is actually, to a certain extent, not a curse, but a gift that is waiting to be unveiled by you, but you'll never open it until you realize that you're minerals to turn it into fertilized.
00:55:34
Speaker
I love that. Yeah. And for the lives of growth. So true. Well, Deborah, thank you so, so much for coming on our show. Super excited. You're actually one of our first interviewees that we've ever had on This Is The Way seekers. So we very much appreciate you being here. Oh, I'm honored. I'm very honored. Thank you. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Scotty, why don't you send us out of here?
00:56:01
Speaker
All right. Well, thank you all so much for listening and may the force be with you always. And with you.