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Season 6- Episode 10- Dawn of the PWR (Premiership Round 6)
50 Plays11 months ago
We are back with more rugby fun from those American rugby dopes. On this episode first, we address the issues at Sandy Park and how they go much deeper than the single incident that Ugo experienced this past weekend. We are then into the spirit of the holiday this week in the U.S. by giving our rugby thanks. It's then time to talk about the new season for Premiership Women's Rugby with the discussion of the Match of the Week (thank you TRN for that). Finally, we go through the round of the Prem with stops at The Rec, Sandy Park, and everywhere in between. Get something to drink and kick back with us!
Check out the TFRY Patreon at https://www.patreon.com/TheFantasyRugbyYanks
Ask us questions via Twitter: Jarrod- jdyke8man & Ben- admrablsnackbar, and #AskTFRY.
Send us your thoughts for the show and questions for upcoming shows via e-mail [email protected]. Of course, we welcome feedback via e-mail, twitter or by rating/reviewing the pod on Apple Podcast.
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Transcript
Introduction and Initial Banter
00:00:04
Speaker
It is. The fantasy Europeans. My name is Jared Dyke. I wanted to say it's stupid and let's move on but then you kept going. I'm Ben Glauser. I don't like any way anybody handled that. Collusion. Collusion.
00:00:27
Speaker
Hey, everybody. Welcome back. It is the Fancy Roby Yanks. My name is Jared Dyke. I'm Ben Glauser. Let's go, baby. Let's go. We got a lot of material to cover here. Buckles in and if you're going to drink, drink, which I am going to. I'm also going to. I found one of my brethren beers here from Maine. Yeah, there we go.
00:00:57
Speaker
Which one is that?
Craft Beer Talk: Maine Edition
00:00:58
Speaker
There are several good brews coming from... Uh, Bissell Brothers. Ah, don't know. They're really great in Portland. Portland's a good time. Yeah. Yeah. I haven't been up in a bit. Even the last time I went up, I definitely didn't go out. We went out. Oh, that time, yes. Well, that was my last time in Portland. Yeah, that was your last time. We went out. That was a good time. I would go back.
00:01:27
Speaker
Would recommend. I was kind of disappointed that everybody else didn't want to go at the assholes to Elbow's Bar. But in honesty, it was for the better. Yeah. It kind of was. That place is also shut down now, so. Oh, no. Well, that doesn't work. Yeah. Wait, that is the speakeasy. They've reopened it, but it's not the same. Yeah. It's not the same. The speakeasy you mean, or the? No. No, no, no, no. That place is still there. OK, good.
00:01:55
Speaker
No, because remember when we were walking away and I was like, all right, what do we want to do? We want to do probably we're going to do like a bar that's assholes to elbows. And there was like, I was like, yeah, done. Yeah. OK, because I remember the speakeasy as assistant elbows and that was like. That was pretty tight, too. That's true. That was there's a reason that they were kicking people out and letting people in one at a time.
Shoutout to George and PRW
00:02:18
Speaker
Anyway, find us on your favorite podcast up.
00:02:22
Speaker
download, download, rate, review, share, subscribe, all that good stuff. Um, why our good friend George is the fans of Ruby, geeky coffee or beer, especially after all the work he did for PRW this past weekend and pumping up our little competition and boy did he ever. So, um, yeah, lots of good done. So.
00:02:42
Speaker
If you are participating in that thing, you should definitely buy Georgia beer. Let's put it that way. How's that? That's the rule. We'll do that. Um, no discrimination here on this podcast or should the be in sport turn life and boy was there in sports this past weekend. Oh, really? I hadn't heard. Oh, good God. Well, we'll get into like the thing that enabled it to happen, but
Bigotry in Sports: A Critical View
00:03:11
Speaker
I do wonder how often things like that happen. And when they're like, squidge said, um, how often that happens. And if it's not someone like Ugo that experiences it, that it doesn't get reported or said, and you know, rugby is, is supposed to be famous for sorting out its fans on its own. And I'd say it's safe to say that we failed at that quite a bit lately. And this is just a, you know, just everything coming together, really. Yeah. And it's not,
00:03:42
Speaker
Because you don't stamp it out, right? There's always that there's always that yeah, but there's always the equivocation on it but You know the Chiefs were like first off. I mean Wow, there was bigotry in a location in a stadium that celebrates bigotry hmm like that aside though Yeah, it's up to us as you know
00:04:08
Speaker
players, coaches, whatever, to make sure that everybody is welcome. Everybody is, you know, this is an inclusive sport. This is a lot of fun. This should be for everybody. And yet, yeah, like, you tolerate just a little bit of it. And we've all had those teammates where you're just like, I really don't want him around. And it's time now to start actually acting on that a little bit and be like, you got to go.
00:04:35
Speaker
And like I've been a part of conversations with players not not exactly like that not to that level of you got to go but of a Dude, if you're gonna be around this team, that's that stops. Yep. Absolutely Absolutely, and that's yeah, there's
Exeter Chiefs vs. Cleveland Guardians on Inclusivity
00:04:52
Speaker
like It's got to happen and then the problem is though you're still gonna have organizations like the Chiefs who
00:05:02
Speaker
pump that bigoted chant out and really try to, you know, it makes the change that happened, the logo change and the mascot change, all that. It makes it kind of a laughing sock, right? It's a joke. It's a joke. It doesn't really mean anything. It's a wink nod like, okay, we're not racist or fucking racist. It's such, and that encourages stuff like that.
00:05:27
Speaker
It's got to be rooted out. This is an organizational thing. It's not just the one fan. Not, not the problem is in the end, it's going to be this one fan will suffer consequences as the fan should. I'm not saying that this guy is absolved of guilt. He's the worst part. No, of course not. He's the, he's, he's the, he's, yeah, he's the whole, he's the spark for the whole thing, but he is still definitely someone that's liable for this whole thing and should never see the inside of a rugby ground, rugby ground.
00:05:56
Speaker
in England especially, but really in general. Yeah, but like at the same time, the Exeter sheets need an organizational overhaul, not just a watch engine logo because this is not, again, they're encouraging bigotry constantly at their matches.
00:06:17
Speaker
And why would we be shocked that it happened? That it happened later. So yeah, I'm not thrilled with any aspect of this. And Hugo doesn't deserve any of that. That's the problem. You're being a dick to people who don't deserve it. Totally. Yeah, I'm not sorry. Yeah, the bigotry's got it. You want to be a dick to Austin Healy? Go for it. Obviously, leave bigotry out of it. Right, absolutely.
00:06:46
Speaker
He's nice to Ugo. He's actually a good guy. I actually like Ugo a lot more than I like Austin. People used to crap on him all the time, Ugo, and they had their reasons, and that's fine. None of them, which were to do with race or anything. They didn't like the way he analyzed games. I think he's definitely beyond Austin at this point, but let's get Flatman in there a little bit more, too. He was awesome this weekend. We'll talk about him a little bit, but man, was he funny.
00:07:16
Speaker
As you said, the organization has spoken loudly with their actions apart from a single logo and a single imagery change because they allow it to happen.
00:07:32
Speaker
I like to think that, you know, and we've, we've been told that people try and stamp it out, but clearly there's not enough people that try and stamp it out for it to stop. And it's, and it gets worse. And it's almost like people forget as the game goes on, they're like, nevermind. I don't care. And you hear it more. I'm like, you gotta be kidding me. Like, come on, man. This is, this is not okay. Like, yeah, you know, and so let's contrast that with, um, just so we have like kind of two,
00:08:02
Speaker
two sides of what happens. So we have Exeter Chiefs that changed the logo, but didn't really change anything else. We have Cleveland, Cleveland's baseball team, formerly known as the Cleveland Indians, changing to the Cleveland Guardians, which actually had more significance to the local town.
00:08:21
Speaker
They got rid of everything. Anything that had to do with the old logo or anything like that was gone and immediately just erased. And there was no... Just like what happened in our history.
00:08:36
Speaker
I mean, yes. But at least they were at least they that's the better part to do. Yeah, that's true. Don't make any caricature. No, and you know, they because they used to have the whole like, tent in the back in the stands. And if you've seen the movie Major League, oh, yeah, it's hard to watch. It is. It is with that. That's true. Great movie. But goddamn that logo was terrible. And all the imagery was terrible.
00:09:01
Speaker
Think the second one was worse because that's when they had they focus on the fans who were out there a little like doing that shit It was a little much button either way It's still a classic movie Yeah, yeah, like you gotta you have to do it right and Yeah to say that they have fasted is probably an understatement right the Chiefs the Exeter Chiefs and I thought they did it purposefully and so it's kind of yeah like I
00:09:30
Speaker
To me, yeah, the Chiefs are share blaming this. Their hands are not clean at all. No, they are doing that whole, oh, how could this have happened? It's like, you tolerate this. Yeah, you're winning, sir. Oh, you tolerate this. Like, you tolerate it. You more than tolerate it. You encourage it, but you encourage it with like tongue in cheek and a wink. And that's, if anything, worse.
00:09:55
Speaker
Yeah. So that's, that's where I am on that. Yeah. So, yeah. So let's, as a, as a sport, as, um, you know, fans and supporters as a whole, let's, if you hear someone doing that shit, fucking clock them. Okay. Like you get a green light and you know, I listen,
00:10:18
Speaker
I will happily frickin' deck a frickin' person being that kind of person. Honestly, and I'm, because I think I'd be the first to swing, but I'm sure I wouldn't be the last. Honestly, we love to say that we sort ourselves out when everybody's being assholes. Do it. Let's actually do it. Maybe that used to be the way, but we're not anymore. Get back to it, okay? We don't need full-on hooliganism, but let's start sorting people out that need sorting out.
00:10:48
Speaker
Right. It's like one of those if it's not getting the authorities aren't taking, you know, nobody's stepping up to take leadership here because somebody's got to. Yep. So get into it, boys and girls. OK, so with that, don't forget our Patreon. So and also Patreon will will have and we'll talk about it in the fancy corner. It'll have
00:11:11
Speaker
The PWR fancy results posted there for free. So yeah, I'm not going to make you pay for it. I promise. Right. Those will be there for free. Yeah, I'm trying to figure out how I want to post it in terms of what format and what it's going to look like, but it'll be up there and then eventually I'll post it to the Twitters. But there's that. Then we have. So this week in America, those of you that
00:11:41
Speaker
have been listening to us for a while, probably know what's going on. It's Thanksgiving here and we're going to... Well, the idea behind Thanksgiving and how it was originally founded is pretty shitty.
00:11:55
Speaker
I think I told that story a few minutes ago. Yeah, something like that. So, number one, I think something that would actually be appropriate to do is acknowledge that we live on Pawtucket tribe land. So we'll start with that. Pretty much the whole city of Massachusetts is Pawtucket tribe land. I think most of like south of New England is.
00:12:19
Speaker
So we'll acknowledge that. Number two, while we acknowledge the shittiness of how this holiday started, we can acknowledge the problem.
00:12:30
Speaker
and still take the good with it. So with the good, I choose to acknowledge that it's time to spend with family and friends and a time to just reflect a little bit and be thankful. This is my favorite holiday. I mean, it should be a front row's favorite holiday, right? You sit, you eat, you watch sports, and you try to have a nice time with your family.
00:12:52
Speaker
Yeah. The emphasis is on that try part. Yeah. That's for sure. Depending on where you are and where you're at. Right. We acknowledge you all. So what we like to do is just like acknowledge a few things that we're thankful for here between Ben and myself. So we'll go age before beauty here. All right. One thing I am thankful for is the inclusion of the Pacific islands in Super Rugby.
00:13:20
Speaker
Yeah.
Pacific Island Teams in Super Rugby
00:13:21
Speaker
Because that made this World Cup that much better. True. And it made Fiji rugby that much better. The others will come along too. I think Fiji was a little bit better spot anyway. But there's commensurate progression for these Pacific Island teams and they're looking better and they're
00:13:42
Speaker
They're becoming more professional which will help in these international competitions and and that's gonna grow rugby that that one thing It's just those little things again talk about rugby being an inclusive
00:13:54
Speaker
community. That's part of it is making sure that the islands that give to rugby so much to rugby, so much great stuff comes from those islands, but it doesn't get to, they don't reap the benefit there. So this is good that they're finally getting some representation on that stage and that'll help them on the world stage and good things will come from it as we saw this year.
00:14:19
Speaker
What else? You can go. Oh, okay. I'm thankful for... I kind of wanted to let you have a shot at it, but I'll take it then. Yeah, go ahead. I'm thankful for Mags and for Scott Mathew. Yeah. For Josh Larson. Are we all? For Jason Patras.
00:14:43
Speaker
The Laverma lawn, the list goes on and on. Basically, you're your 2023 MLR champion, the Raymond Freejacks, who just gave us, have been giving us a show for years. And man, it's a good time to, and it really is a great introduction for rugby to the community. How many people have we sat next to that are like, this is my first ever game. Or, you know, I kind of never heard of this sport. I kind of heard of this sport, but never really knew much about it until I started coming in. I really like it.
00:15:11
Speaker
And yeah, it's tons. It's building a community here and it's it's it's building awareness of rugby and an appreciation for rugby There's definitely been people who are like, yeah, I'm coming. I'm coming back. Yep. Absolutely. And that's what it's about And being champion does not never hurt a little bit hurts And then
00:15:35
Speaker
Yeah, I guess that those are those are my big picture things. I don't have too much. I don't I don't know that I need too much else. No, no, we don't. No, we don't. So yeah, I echo Ben's thankfulness for the free Jackson and everything that they've done and just making you know, I have to say like there was a point where
00:16:01
Speaker
I was like, when I was starting to become an actual adult and make some money and being like, I really wish I could be a season ticket holder to a sport, but on the sports that I really wanted, I could get season tickets to like maybe the socks, but that would have been it. And that list is long. You just have to be put on it when you're born. So you can get on it at a reasonable time. And then obviously being a fan of foreign teams, I was like, man, I wish I could just be a season ticket holder for the series or something.
00:16:31
Speaker
And then the Mighty Freejacks came along and made that dream come true. So I was like, yes, plunk down, no problem. So yeah, and this has been, and the fact that they were good from the start, you know, they had a rough first few games in their full first full season, but you know, overall they've been an awesome experience. And yeah, the fact that like, this is something that I get to be a part of.
00:16:58
Speaker
Um, as long as they're around, which I assume they will because Magdalene doesn't seem like he's going far. Um, and I, so I appreciate it. And I'm very thankful that we have those guys around. I'm also, um, very thankful on a local level that I have a wonderful blossoming, um, rugby club that I get to coach because those kids are amazing. And, um,
00:17:26
Speaker
They talk about sorting themselves out. They sort each other out, and that does my heart good always. They know when each other are being stupid. I was with you. I was like, yes, I actually agree with this because I have the same opportunity too, except for that part. Now I need to get that part. I'm working on it. It took me a while.
Personal Reflections on Rugby Involvement
00:17:45
Speaker
That would be the better part of five, six years with COVID mixed in there too. I was thankful that I got to experience the ride I did with
00:17:54
Speaker
Um, winning a semi-final and then and then going to the final and grander we got her we got her heads caved in in the final but you know for for the girls to be such a young program and not have existed that long to get there was really huge and um I will say semi-final had a lot of tears shed Yeah, you know, yeah, that was that was pretty cool So but that's the best part of rugby whether you like when you look back on it when you win or lose It's you're shedding tears after you after you played
00:18:23
Speaker
something happened that was powerful and you're going to keep it with you. Yup. Yup. So yeah, extremely thankful. And then of course, um, I'm always thankful that I get to hang out on this pod.
00:18:37
Speaker
do things with the guy across the screen for me, because like we've talked about, even when we didn't do the rugby pod the other week, that's for us. That's for us. We're glad you all listened, but that's for us. It's something we're...
00:18:56
Speaker
I have so many thoughts about X game or Y team and shit. I guess I'm going to talk about that on the pod this week and just talk about my feelings there about it instead of balling up and doing something stupid. Right. I wasn't even thinking personally. I was thinking more of a rugby in general. Well, I mean, obviously the free jacks.
00:19:16
Speaker
I would like to add up. I'm thankful I got the opportunity to play at K&M this year. Oh, yeah, that's right. You did. And I scored a try. Ben fell over the line. And walked off. Yeah, that was your last act, really, for the most part. I looked over the sideline, like, all right, take me out. They're like, you just got on. I'm like, what do I need to do? They gave you like five more minutes, and then they followed you. Let me make a tackle and have a scrum. So yeah, no. And then you were done.
00:19:46
Speaker
And then we're done. Yep. Yes, yes, yes. All right. Um, so thank you for Ruby and all your thankfulness and all the things to be thankful for. We look forward to more coming soon. All right. So let's talk about something special that
Early Season Highlights in Women's Rugby
00:20:07
Speaker
happened this weekend. And that was,
00:20:11
Speaker
the PWR happening. So we are going to talk about the game of the week basically that they show on the rugby network because we know we're going to get it. So we'll talk about that. And I have to say it wasn't the best one, but hey, it's game. So we'll take it. It is. Honestly.
00:20:28
Speaker
Yeah, this was never going to be a close match. No. I was kind of surprised that they chose this one. I was also kind of glad that you got some. I think they understand which ones I should be choosing quite honestly. Yeah. But it's also early in the season. So I guess that's my real takeaway from this beyond all the, you know, again, it's great to have another year of professional women's rugby starting is, you know, it's week one.
00:20:58
Speaker
So it's like, are Bristol this good? Are sharks, I mean, Bristol, yeah, they're good. Are sharks this bad? Probably not. Probably not in the end. But again, week one, you got, you know, a lot of people playing kind of their first match together. So yeah, a little bit like, you know, like Beatrice Rigoni, wasn't she a recent, wasn't she a new signing for them? I'm pretty sure she just signed for them. So like, that's a star player that
00:21:28
Speaker
you know, they don't might they might haven't had enough chance to bond to really mesh with. Right. Yeah, it's I see Eagle Alicia Washington. Yeah, still kicking around the pram. That's, that's excellent to Benson still on there too. And also Jess is super excited to see Abby Ward out there. Yeah. She's like, Okay, she came back.
00:21:53
Speaker
Yes, yes, yes. I can do it. Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure she was. Yeah. Um, interesting that we had, and I'm not, I'm sure our fantasy friends were not, we're not expecting that, that Boderman and Berman were pulled less than, at less than half time. So I was like, Oh, uh, that's kind of a shot. Yeah. I'm like, uh-oh. Um, but like, Lark Davies was played all the way till 63. Um, so I was like, okay, that seems weird, but okay. Keep going.
00:22:23
Speaker
Yeah, well, that was that was kind of my you know, my thought I guess we'll get into that in the fancy corner But yeah, I was definitely not I was thinking looking at backups more or not backups, but like Role players more than stars because the stars are gonna get pulled early hidden in week one if they're a lot of them did. Yeah, I did So I will say and they talked about it on the broadcast too It's pretty impressive that and listed and she marked it with a try Bert Lucy Burgess Keeping off
00:22:54
Speaker
Bevin without, you know, really a hesitation from the coaching staff. They're like, no, she's our nine. And, you know, Keir Bevin is so slouched by any means whatsoever. So keeping her, you know, at bay is tough to do. But as long as Lucy Burgess is going to score tries and, you know, be productive, it's really hard to say otherwise, you know, and you're going to have a hard time saying, no, we're not going to do that. Well, yes, you are. You're going to because you don't really have a choice.
00:23:22
Speaker
She's just, she's been playing too well and yeah, good on her. I, I give her loads of credit. Cause yeah, at some point you got to take the names off the jerseys and you just look at, you know, who's better for your team. Yeah. And that's clearly the warden's coaching staff have done that. So credit, full credit to them. I don't like seeing too many, too many people wearing Bristol colors that
00:23:48
Speaker
should be wearing black and red. I know. I know a couple of them with Boderman and Nachison. Yeah. And Maxi. Yeah. True. That comment was not limited to the women. Yeah, true. Yeah.
00:24:06
Speaker
Yeah, well, I think I think Holly HSM was gonna have a hard time like she was more She was looking for more almost guaranteed first time and with Harrison still at the series. It was always gonna be totally it makes sense I'm not saying I don't I don't understand it. I'm just saying I don't like it. No fair enough. Yeah Yeah, so yeah in the I think unfortunately I think
00:24:32
Speaker
I think this is a combination in the end. This game was of Bristol being a pretty good team, but unfortunately sale also being a pretty bad team. I don't think Bristol is the worst, is the best. And I don't think sale is the worst, but I think the combination of those two things just left this, this huge Canyon size gap unfortunately in the game. And this just let us down a little bit. So, um, yeah, watching kind of card too. I was like, what, what happened here? He was on the pitch for two minutes and got sent back to the bin and I was like, Oh, that's fun.
00:25:03
Speaker
Not sure she was planning on that one. No, no, no. Um, yeah, what was the, just looking at the numbers here. Yeah. And sale struggled set piecewise to that. That's never helpful. 64% on the line, on the line out, 35% on the scrums. That's not going to do it. Just not. Um, yeah, no good, no good there.
00:25:26
Speaker
1,433 kms for Bristol Bears. That's spicy meatball right there. Yeah, that's a lot. They had two with over 200. Wow. Yep. Willis and Lava Bon, and then three more with over 100. Bonner, Murray, and Nick Reli.
00:25:58
Speaker
Ridiculous, ridiculous. Simi Pam had 82 meters. That's not surprising. I mean, it isn't, but she also was, she also only played 43 minutes. So that's a lot per meter basis, per minute basis right there. So yeah, hint, hint for all you PWR fantasy players. Take a little bit of the Bristol and take a little bit of what sale gave up and probably find a good player this week, just FYI. Yeah.
00:26:28
Speaker
Anywho, let's go to... Let's go to the rec first. Bath and Bristol. Left it to squeaky bum time, but got it done. Wouldn't advise doing it again, but got it done. See, I've seen it from the other direction where it's like, Bristol, you had these opportunities and then just didn't true. Didn't capitalize.
00:26:57
Speaker
That could have been like, and this is this is a problem. I mean, it's hard. Because you're on the road and it's a. To Derby and. Like, right, the teams know each other too well, so you got to play extra hard if you're going to win this game and. And I feel like Bath had that extra bit and Bristol just. Just couldn't get it going, no, they're still not using Ben Hardin and Vacatawa well,
00:27:25
Speaker
although they were better. Piers O'Connor's not a wimp. No, he needs trouble. He tried to make up for his screw-ups to his credit, but like there were still moments where like, nope, you don't belong in this game. And when he got pulled, I was like, that's not a shock. No, it really wasn't. It was only a shock that it took 49 minutes for it to happen.
00:27:58
Speaker
Often give a player till halftime at least so yeah, you know and that that was right. I just I think it was like 42 minutes I'm like, okay, he can go off. I can't remember what was early a second after you can you can go get him now? Yeah, I think you can go get him now. Yeah That's exactly where I was But you know like Ollie Lawrence has proven why he's a
00:28:25
Speaker
He's going to be the guy for England because he's in the prem. He's he's untouchable. Yeah, hard to beat. Really hard to be like. Yeah. I know he's the thing. The thing that happens with a player like Ollie Lawrence is
00:28:46
Speaker
He chews you up and then you have to think about him for way too much time. And other space opens and other players get to, you know, do their thing. And it's definitely problematic for opposing defenses. Yes. And I thought they did a pretty good job of moving him into different situations too.
00:29:12
Speaker
It wasn't as though Bristol could be like, okay, this is where they're going to use Lawrence. We're going to expect him in this spot because all of a sudden it was in a different spot or a pass early or a pass later. Keeping them off balance like that makes it hard and especially because Bristol, they're starting two guys who have played now what, five games, six games with each other. Six games with each other, yeah.
00:29:37
Speaker
Lawrence Redpath have played a little bit more than that. Actually, this whole back line outside of Finn Russell has. They know how to work together and Finn can slot right in there, whereas the Bears are just like... There's so many guys that are just... There's still no cohesiveness. They're not really working together yet and they're having too many injuries.
00:30:01
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, they're freaking, they're back rows decimated right now. Murdered right now. Yeah. Factor's playing seven. Factor's playing seven. They had Dunn playing six.
00:30:12
Speaker
Yikes. And Dunn's a lock by trade. So it's like, yo, yo. Joe Batley played sick. Like, yeah. Cause Dunn dropped, I think Lee. So Batley jumped. That's right. That's right. Like, you're right. This isn't like playing Dean, like the, the Quinn's playing Dino lamb at six. This is, you know, Dunn and Batley are like playing like Coba's visa. It's like, he's just dumb. Yeah. Yeah. A little bit. Um,
00:30:42
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, and Bradbury got hurt. So it's like, you're just, you're down so many guys. And yeah, not awesome. Like I, it's a, it's a tough situation for Pat Lamb. I'm, I'm, I'm giving him a little bit more of a pass in this one than, than the guy we'll get to last, I think. Um, but I'm still, that's not, I'm, I'm still not on the Pat Lamb defensive anymore. He, he, this is not, you can't lose a one point match this one point match. Like you got to find a way to win it. Yeah.
00:31:14
Speaker
Find a way, man, that's, and people will, or will forgive you if you find ways and, you know, you find ways, then you can start to actually remember who you are and remember your identity.
Challenges and Opportunities for Bristol Rugby
00:31:25
Speaker
And then you play, you play your, your rugby like you, like you want. And like, we all fell in love with once upon a time. Right. And you got to make that conversion. Yep. That's like, like, you can't, uh, yeah. Sheedy of like,
00:31:43
Speaker
Three years ago, probably makes that. And he's not the same player right now. Simply not. No. So many penalties conceded, just six for math. Damn. Because that was to me the way this kind of ended was me. I like both these teams, don't get me wrong. I do favor Bristol in this matchup as far as teams I'll pull for.
00:32:12
Speaker
So I really wanted, I was hoping for like a penalty or something like that at the end. And to be fair, Beth earned it instead of giving it away. So that's how they want good work to them. But Bristol have to work to force those penalties to win it. You have to collect some sort of possession and territory.
00:32:37
Speaker
then get a penalty. And I don't think they really put that much pressure on enough anyway towards the end. No, no, no. Um, we'll have to sell for real quick. Um, AJ bell for sale and sale in new castle.
00:32:59
Speaker
I think I want to say gutsy from Newcastle, despite the score line. I agree. The team was set up there to be slaughtered, like no other way around it. Right. And to their credit, they stood up. You had it at one point, it was 26-22. Yeah. It was right there. It was right there for them.
00:33:21
Speaker
Until until 76 minutes like you you were you were there you were right there and So yeah, definitely a step forward for them and then definitely a Think what else are they gonna do? They're gonna throw it You know what your guys that you got are gonna do
Newcastle's Youth Potential
00:33:39
Speaker
So why not try a Ben Redshaw, Lewis Brown, these guys, you know, James Elliott, throw them out there. Yeah. That was going to lose the game. You're you've already lost that. Yeah, like whatever. You've lost it. So last year we were.
00:33:57
Speaker
wondering, you know, what were they last year, year before, whatever, when they had Hayden Wood and they let him go, like, all right, where's the where's the long term answer here? Because we knew it wasn't and he's gone now anyway. No, it's not Brecon. And so I think and the potential for them to have to play for their spot in the prem this year, I think is there. So they might obviously have that concern.
00:34:24
Speaker
But I think if they can live with the growing pains of Josh Thomas, I think he's going to turn out to be better than you have right now. So yes, he's young and you probably don't want to play him every week. But I think you need to give the guy minutes. I think you need to give him substantial minutes this season and the result of it at the end of the season into next will be something that you're going to be very, very happy with.
00:34:52
Speaker
You know, it looked, looked pretty good. Yeah. You let some things go by him on defense, but whatever, like, yeah, you know, as Eddie Jones says, young tens lose matches and it's, you know, I only bring that to, it's a rare nugget of truth, but at the same time, it's also one of those, yeah, no fucking shit. It's like young quarterbacks lose matches. No, no shit. They don't know what they're looking at just yet. Um, but you got to get through that time and.
00:35:21
Speaker
Yeah, like, as you said, what is what a Newcastle have to lose? What are they gonna lose lose lose games? Yeah, no shit. They're gonna do that anyway. So yeah, they're likely gonna do that anyway. Yeah, they'd be well served. Yeah, they'd be well served to keep playing guys like that. Guys like Steven's guys. He was Josh Barton. Stevens is like, okay, they're losing mighty mouse next year. And yes, that's a big loss. But Stevens, I, I don't have a problem with that.
00:35:50
Speaker
Right. Stevens makes it so that, okay, well, we lose Mighty Mouse. We'll spend Mighty Mouse money maybe on the back row. Yeah. Yeah. Where you are really struggling because, yeah, I mean, their centers are, you know, like, but that's that, you know, interchangeable guys, the loose forwards and centers or just has been a bunch of poop.
00:36:16
Speaker
And even when you have internationals, the Matthias Argentinians, they haven't really played that well for you. No. And I think it's just a bad, you don't want to stop sending Argentinians up to the far north. That's really a bad idea. I'm not sure they're enjoying their time that much up there. Why are you even recruiting them? Honestly, recruit someone who's going to play in the conditions that you're going to play in.
00:36:47
Speaker
Anyway, yeah, they got a lot of fixing to do up there. This was a good first step. I know it was a loss, 40-22, but good first step. And for sharks, you did your job. Yeah, they did. And Aaron Reed is putting everyone on notice, I'd say, at this point. My only regret was that it didn't captain him.
00:37:15
Speaker
Yeah, so it's yeah all well done to sharks. They did what they needed to do. But yeah, create the Newcastle there. They were definitely the note a noteworthy. But then to that to that we were talking about with Newcastle. Look at look at the the Sharks back three Aaron Reed, Tom Robach, Joe Carpenter. These guys were struggling to get a look. And there was instead it was like. Oh, I don't even remember the names. They were just really bad.
00:37:50
Speaker
Oh God, thank God. We don't hear from him no more. Right. Um, for good reason. Right. Guys like that. And no, you had to move on from, um,
00:38:00
Speaker
from that shithouseery that they had back there. And fuck, look at those three now. It hasn't taken them that long. No. It's weird. If you put athletes into circumstances and yeah, they're going to make their mistakes, but then they kind of sort themselves out and they become good. It's weird how that works. Maybe the national team should try that. If there's a few teams, I could probably afford to try that. Right.
00:38:25
Speaker
Let's go Saturday over to Walford Road. For the most part, and not completely, but for the most part, I'd say for the first 60 minutes of this match, I feel like Northampton did so much wrong and they still had a shot.
00:38:46
Speaker
Well, I didn't do anything special. I would say they did much wrong. I would say they didn't do much right. And they weren't really there. There was no real cohesion to the attack. It was all.
00:39:01
Speaker
like very almost you know that back paint by numbers okay we're gonna do thing A then thing B then thing C and it wasn't until suddenly we're like you know what we got to just throw the kitchen sink at Lester because we're running out of time now we're against the clock more than the scoreboard and all of a sudden it started coming really good
00:39:20
Speaker
And it's one of those, oh wait, so Saints finally started playing like Saints. Like they didn't get off the bus, I felt like they didn't get off the bus for the first 60 minutes of the game. And then it was like, oh yeah, let's wait, wait, wait, hold on a second. Hang on, are we playing rugby? Let's play rugby, guys. How do we play rugby? You wanna play rugby? Let's play rugby. Let's play rugby. And then all of a sudden it was, you know, Lester had to poop themselves a little bit. And I think if they had just decided to come off the bus and play rugby and to start this match, very different outcome.
00:39:48
Speaker
Yeah, more likely. I mean, really all of this is to say I thought the Saints played really poorly for the first most of the game. And I don't think Lester played all that well. I wasn't really that impressed with him. No. Tommy Rafal was excellent. Visa was mortal. But still annoying. Annoying but not like
00:40:12
Speaker
not, he wasn't the Jasper visa, you know, the capital J w Jasper visa. This was like, yeah. Give me a second guys. I'm still recovering a little bit, a little bit. Um, I also Collins was like a ghost. Yeah. Still hasn't really popped up yet. No. Yeah. I think
Scrum Decisions: Referee Frustrations
00:40:42
Speaker
Yeah, I'm, I'm struggling to put on, put it on my head. Like who really did well for Lester apart from like Pollard. Right. I don't know. I mean, Rafael got played in the match because he was an annoyance at the breakdown, which he was. Um, like Henderson and Chasm were kinda.
00:41:07
Speaker
He said well in the in the scrums according to the ref Oh Yeah, he definitely had him bewitched for sure. I just like put a spell on like I'm not doing anything wrong Like the friggin force like there's no problem with a scrum He is doing the things wrong in the scrum. I didn't wrench him. He collapsed on his own
00:41:36
Speaker
And you know, he's he his hips come out and his shoulders turn in and then no, no, no his went first I'm like, no
00:41:44
Speaker
His are clearly that far out for a reason, dipshit. To me, it's someone who has done this. It's the oldest move in the tight head book. We all know what you're going for. Can I paint the picture better than you? And he wasn't painting the picture that well, quite honestly. No. Yeah, beats me. I don't know. Dixon doesn't know what the fuck he's doing anyway, so whatever he says.
00:42:07
Speaker
that's not a new slash anyway um yeah but i said that i said dick skin is now in my um my auto text because i'm uh your phone finally learned yeah it's like okay you're gonna type are you typing this again it's oh carl dixon's roughly okay yeah talking about dick skin again okay
00:42:29
Speaker
Yeah, that's so but I did I did say I don't think Tigers will let this happen. So by whatever means They were gonna win and yeah indeed by whatever means so yeah, they were the better team they were and they they were not gonna let it happen for sure they right they let this get away from them last year in this exact fixture and you know, they were kicking themselves the whole day right so Nope wasn't gonna happen this time
00:42:57
Speaker
So Tigers did it and I like Dan McKellar a lot. So I do want him to succeed. So I am glad they won. So yeah, I don't I don't want them to finish towards the bottom of the table. Please no. That's not that's not a good Premiership League. No, we're honest. You know, that's not a good Premiership League when they're when they're good, the league's good. And then
00:43:19
Speaker
I was nervous for this game and boys just called my nerves very quickly, very nicely. Thank you guys. Thank you very much. It was nice to, I mean, you know, first 20 minutes were a little iffy, but then it was like, Oh no. Okay. Got it. We're good. Everything's fine. Right. I was like, what happened here? Like I, I was baffled. I was baffled that we did what we did to them.
00:43:48
Speaker
So let's put it this way. I'm not, I mean, the Saracens 38 points, I think is less of a function of the Saracens putting up a 38 point effort. It was more that the Harlequins gave them enough opportunities for them to score 38 points. Yep. That's probably true. Like I don't think the Harlequins did much in attack and they really didn't threaten enough.
00:44:17
Speaker
And when they did this, it started to just kind of turn them away. I mean, that, I mean, Wolfpack, it does that. It will shut down teams. But like the other part of that is the Quinn's shouldn't be only scoring 10 points in this match. No, that was, that's to me, that was more of a, more than just the credit to the Saturday's defense who deserve a ton of credit. Bunch of credit. Yeah, absolutely. Quinn's really just pooped a lot.
00:44:47
Speaker
And I was almost disappointed. It's more fun when they really put up a fight. And that's why I would much rather watch the Saris play Quins than like, Newcastle wasn't that enjoyable. And then this was enjoyable, but it's so much more enjoyable when it's like,
00:45:08
Speaker
28, 25, you know, then 38, 10, right? Right. Like let's take 10 from you and give you 10, you know, whatever. And then let's work this out. Let's get this competitive guys. Like, yeah. Yeah. I, I mean, Don Brant was a ghost. Will Evans was a slight pain in the ass, but really not that bad. They did a mostly good job sans the last like 15 minutes of balling up Esther Hazen, which was, which is impressive in a lot of ways.
00:45:37
Speaker
Yeah, like they made a lot of good players look very, very much a shadow of themselves. And that speaks heavily to who they are and how they play. And that's losing laws for the year two minutes in. I have to throw Ollie Hartley in there. Keep him in, honestly. Yeah. Let him grow. He's got enough good guys around him. Let him grow.
00:46:00
Speaker
scored it. That's a, that's a, that's a cool thing for, you know, for the kid in this, this matchup. Absolutely. Yeah. I said what I said about, about where we got them, but I'm going to look up exactly where we got them. As you're doing that, um, I need to apologize. I keep, I really do need to apologize to Alex Lewington because I do criminal, not when I'm watching the game, when I'm watching the game, like I love this guy.
00:46:25
Speaker
But away from the game, I'm like, Lillington, eh, I could take him or leave him. I don't know why I had that attitude, and I shouldn't, so I apologize. Alex, you deserve better. You're really good. I've loved him since we got him from Irish a few years ago. Every time I watch him, I appreciate him. For some reason, as soon as the game's off, I'm like, who? Who's that guy? Just losing. Wait a minute. Who's this? I don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
00:46:55
Speaker
Let me see. Oh, I guess we've had him. Let me see. Hold on. Time out. Time out. What was he wasps? He said he was wasps. Okay. Yeah. We nicked him from wasps when they went under. Yep. That's exactly where we got him from. All right. That's not a bad yet. No. He's 21. Yeah. Yeah.
00:47:17
Speaker
Let him learn the position there. He'll be fine. I mean defensively he was fantastic, I thought. But again, I was just watching him. For now, still on the iPad, but I didn't see him make glaring mistakes. Let's put it that way.
00:47:37
Speaker
No, I think there was one moment where I said, oh, Hartley, you dummy. But that was probably the only time I said it. Exactly. Like to say it once, everyone's allowed a mistake here or there. Yeah. I think that's when time to time may make a mistake. And I think that's the biggest thing that we need to understand about when we're critical of certain players.
00:48:01
Speaker
and why we love certain players. We're not, we don't love players because they don't make mistakes. It's because the good shit they do more than makes up for one or two mistakes that they're going to make in a match. Like, you know, I, I watched, I was watching mail-ins under the high ball last week. He looked a little rusty with that one. Um, but we also know how wonderful that die is an attack. So give them a few winks to freaking
00:48:27
Speaker
learn how to get under the high ball, at least remember how to get under the high ball, and he's going to be fine. When we take shots at certain players, it's because there's nothing great about them. And it's usually a mistake that it's just like, OK, that's what you notice about them, not the other way around. Right. When you're around the ball, do good things happen? Do bad things happen? Do meh things happen? And that's, I guess, what I'm saying with Lewington is,
00:48:55
Speaker
When he gets his opportunities, he does really, really well with them. And so it's like, no, you just got to rate the guy highlighting. He's not a world beater, but dude can do a lot of good stuff on a pitch. Yeah. Yeah. I would argue that especially this year, since our wings are going to be what they are, he shouldn't lead the pitch. I hope not.
00:49:17
Speaker
And Tom Parton, let's not ignore him because he had a really good game too. He did. He got slid over to that wing and all of a sudden it was like, ooh, this guy's good. And Alex, you played a good game. Putting Farrell in and having good at 15, that's just like,
00:49:37
Speaker
Oh, it's such a good battery right there. 10 to 15. And that allows for guys like Lewington and Parton to get the ball because good is that second first receiver in this. Which is his best role, probably. It really is. Good is a lot like Mackenzie. Yeah, in that way. In that way.
Saracens' Development Success
00:50:00
Speaker
It's like you don't want him making that decision maker. You want him as the, okay, give me the ball in space and let me operate with the guys.
00:50:07
Speaker
Yep. Damn, they're good at it. Totally agree. And damn, are they annoying when they have the team? I know, I know. Damn it all. Yeah. So I, I mean, it has to be said. A couple of guys that were at another team and they weren't good. We, we saw great qualities of them, Parton and Gonzalez being the two of them thinking of right now.
00:50:35
Speaker
Um, yeah, I called him Speedy Gonzalez. I was like, Oh, please try not to do that too often. Yeah, that's not bad. Listen, I love Looney Tunes, but yeah, let's not do that. Okay. Yeah. He was watching. Um, but back to what I was saying. Um, sorry, shiny object. Um, you had two players that were.
00:51:03
Speaker
that had kind of seemed to just plateau. I think that's fair to say, while they were at Irish. I've come here, and I know they're playing with good players, so don't tell me that, duh. I know that, but they're playing with good players, and they're standing out still. And that to me says, still speaks highly of what the series is doing, what the coaching staff does. Yeah, because they get the, like every, you go up and down the lineup, and
00:51:31
Speaker
Every person on this Saria sheet, basically from 1 to 23, are guys that I, I mean, I don't know what I'm, some of the most part, Tizard, and we've seen Tizard be a wizard with the, with the ball, but every one of these guys I want to give the ball to.
00:51:50
Speaker
And they do it. And that's how it works. There's these other teams they operate on, we want to get the ball to one of three or four guys. And that's it. If you don't, if you're not one of those guys, just do your job and recycle and, you know, take the tackle, recycle, and so we can get it to the people who we really want to get the ball to. No, and that's not the way salaries play. And that's generally not the way twins play, although that just seems to be the way that they're going right now. Right. Is that they're giving the ball to specific people, but
00:52:18
Speaker
I mean at the same time I Want to see Will Joseph at 13? I've seen enough. I I'm in I have seen enough of Oscar Beard same train This guy's a fucking ghost out there if he was gonna cut like we've seen enough guys come good like the North Moors You know the Linus and Murley's really like wow Okay, this guy they show a flash and beard definitely showed a flash at one point and then that flash is gone And it's been gone for like a year and a half now
00:52:46
Speaker
Um, yeah, I know Joseph came in and I like his first one. I was like, yeah, I know it was 74 minutes and the game was over, but I was like, holy shit. I'm glad this guy didn't wasn't paying for the beginning. He's scary. Like I liked the way he came into that game. Speaking of London, Irish players. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I.
00:53:13
Speaker
I don't think it's his best, I don't think it's his best position. And I know he's trying to make that a thing, but sorry, kiddo. I don't think it's a thing. And I'm one willing to give a player a shot and say, all right, if you really feel like this is your comfort zone, then let's let you try and get a little comfortable there. And if you've tried it and you got to take him out and be like, all right, listen, if that's going to be your comfort zone, you got to work on this, this, and this. And
00:53:39
Speaker
You know, if you want to get playing time right now, your your best shot is going to be somewhere else. Yeah. And that that's to me, the thing, though, is that like, I just don't know that he's good enough as a player for this quince team. But I don't think he's up to their standard of player. And maybe he maybe he's still developing that. I don't know. I wonder how how old is it? Not very. Remember correctly. Let me find out.
00:54:10
Speaker
He's 22. Okay. So he's got time. Yep. He's got a little bit of time. All right. I always think he's one of those guys who I feel like we've seen for years. So, um, but damn, he's okay. All right, fine. Keep him going. But I'd still start, uh, we'll just go for him for now. Um, all right. And then let's go Sunday.
00:54:40
Speaker
Um, I, I'd say for the middle 40 to 50 minutes, Gloucester were the bet with the best team in this game. Unfortunately they played the game for 80 and in those other minutes that they weren't the best team, they were
00:54:59
Speaker
pretty dog shit. And this is what's killing them. This is the type of, this is the thing that's killing them. They cannot put together a complete performance by any means. You know, we saw last week with Beth and they put together a great half and then just disappeared for a half. And that didn't do them any good, obviously. So yeah, there's a problem to me. I mean, they started, obviously they started a little slow Clement getting a yellow, like right off the bat, less than awesome. But like,
00:55:30
Speaker
They played 70 minutes of good rugby after that. Well, okay, 60 minutes of good rugby after that, once he came back on. And then... He was probably the best player on the pitch. Yeah, and then yes, he was definitely that. And then just like the last five minutes, it was just like, not even that, it was the last like three minutes of that sequence where they just, I did a Martian down the field and I was like, all right, penalty, well, let's, you know, Henry Slade called game. Yeah.
00:55:57
Speaker
What like yeah, don't don't give don't give in tempest a chance to get to call a palady again because he will right like he will And I'm I'm I'm really not that in on exit or anymore This is not the they've I think you mentioned it They kind of been found out
00:56:21
Speaker
A little bit, yeah. And Gloucester just weren't good enough to execute for 80 to finish it. And that's a shame, because again, Skivs has had enough time, and he's got the horses. This is a good squad.
00:56:37
Speaker
I like Thorly and Sam it together. They worked really well together. Stancy is having a struggle with us, no doubt. Oh, good Lord is he ever. Yeah, but Thorly was so good in this game. That finish that he had and he was probably, he was very close on another one too. Oh man. Yeah, guys coming back into it and I love him.
00:57:01
Speaker
It's terrifying when I look at this and go, one of the reasons that Gloucester had it for a while was because fucking Mickey young was on the field. Like, right. Oh, like Stephen Varney totally balled this thing for them in a lot of ways. Um, he wasn't that good. No, they need Chapman back fast. They need Mercer back. Cause like this was the first time that they've shown a team performance, a real good team performance. And yep.
00:57:31
Speaker
It's just that they had that one little extra bit and they don't have it. They're hurt with it. So, you know, again, Pat Lam, Syvington, they're kind of in the same boat here under the pump on the hot seat, pissing away, you know, late games for late, you know, scores for a one point loss that you really can't have this, this like Gloucester really needed this win.
00:58:01
Speaker
This was one of those, if you're... Kind of the same thing with the Bristol and Bath. If you walked into it saying, you know what, you had a shot to win this late and you lost, you'd be like, you know what, okay. But then the manner in which they lost it, you're like, no, this is not... Again, this Gloucester, that's why you're in eighth place. Right. And you and Bristol have 11 points each and that's it. Yeah.
00:58:29
Speaker
When you're on these types of, you know, not really a downward spiral, but like this struggle bus where you can't get it, you know, you can't get out of your own way. It's almost like a quicksand a little bit. These, these games turn into losses. Yeah. And that's hard. That's hard to, that's hard as a club to eat. Right. You know, it's really is. It's like, it's, it's, it can almost be, you know, kill your motivation. Just,
00:58:59
Speaker
Man, it's really hard one to eat. So I while I feel for both of them. I also yeah, I have now lit a fire and placed or two fires that placed them both underneath the coaching chairs of George Givington and Pat Lamb because Time to go fellas. Let's get after it. It is and I think that's the thing with with Gloucester In this one, I don't I don't I see it more for them than Bristol because again Gloucester were We're winning late
00:59:28
Speaker
They had the game one. If you just finish it out. And for a team that's at now negative 49 point differential. What that tells me is you're good at getting blown out. But when you get a close game, that means you got to win it. You got to know how to win. There's some games where the other team is just better. They're straight up better than you. And they're going to pump you. That'll happen when you're in the situation that a team like Gloucester is in.
00:59:58
Speaker
That means that when the victory is in your grasp, you've got to clutch that shit and be good with it. You can't just lose your heads last minute and let it go.
01:00:14
Speaker
I love, I am a Chris Harris Appreciation Society member. Even though your club's kind of in a weird, in a bad spot when one of your best players makes a silly decision like you did that gave away that stupid
Critical Game Moments and Player Awareness
01:00:25
Speaker
fucking penalty. I was like, no, like you got to know dude, like if there's ever, if there's even a sniff of a question, just let it be and be like, all right, I'll get the next guy. You know, that's fine. You know, you just got to know.
01:00:40
Speaker
And although I would say tempest probably could have done a better job of communicating saying to leave it. But yeah, he wasn't that good. And he, but at the same time, also know that, right? Know the rest. Don't don't.
01:00:54
Speaker
Don't put the game in a position where Tempo has to make a decision. That's a flip point flip right there. Yeah, I agree. I do think we need to address one thing and then we'll call it. Is the Tawima yellow card and I am not into that at all. Tawima is not trying to avoid MacWigan by any means. He's also not trying to attack him either.
01:01:18
Speaker
It happened. Trying to avoid the player with the ball, trying to make a legal tackle assist or what have you. Yeah, and he's already on the way down. So once he's on the way down, he's not even thinking about it. He's just like, I need to figure out either if I'm going in for this ball or if I'm getting set for defense. He's not doing anything else. No, that to me was a rugby incident play on.
01:01:44
Speaker
Yeah, that's a rugby incident. That's an incidental clash of heads. It happens. You have a bunch of guys throwing their heads around. It wasn't trying to make contacts. It was just an incidental play on. Yeah. Again, it's a rough sport. We're still going to see some points where it's like, oh, that hurts, but it's totally legal. And that's just where we have to live with it. But we're just trying to stamp out the illegal shit. That wasn't that.
01:02:11
Speaker
So fuck you, Tempo. Anywho. All right, so that's gonna do it for us on the pod, the rugby pod. We're gonna head over to Fancy Corner here. And then if you're not gonna join us there,
01:02:33
Speaker
We appreciate you for hanging out and dealing with us and letting us babble for a bit. If you gotta go over there, we got lots to talk about over there. We'll see you in the fancy corner. Otherwise, have a good weekend all. Happy Thanksgiving, America. Have a good one all. Later. Cheers.
01:03:00
Speaker
If you'd like to ask a question or leave us general feedback, email us at fantasyrugbypodcastatgmail.com. You fart, you die, by the way. Yeah, exactly. The ticky tackiness kind of absolutely pisses me off. Be sure you check out our Patreon at patreon.com slash the fantasyrugby. Yeah.